Newbie 2082 - Game Over

[igorsprite]

hi

[igorsprite]

we have 2 scums, right?

[igorsprite]

we have 2 scums, right?

We do.

and do you know who they are?

[igorsprite]

If I did I wouldn't say :p

good to know

VOTE: pseudoAristotle

[igorsprite]

igorsprite and pseudo interaction looks weird but i think its green for both sides
greeting seems probtown, i like their presence

VOTE: MafMen
Maf's post is pinging me hard, he's townreading the two newbies for an NAI interaction. Bad case of TMI. And greeting has only one post of substance. This is scum trying to make filler content and fakereading
Get on this guy

VOTE: MafMen

[igorsprite]

Igor and Greeting, if you have anything more / anything to say about this MafMen vote I'd love to hear it!

hmmmmm... no

[igorsprite]

sorry idk how to express my thoughts, but basically i don't feel guilty because i'm town. is wrong to think this way?

[igorsprite]

@Greeting i'm really not saying too much to avoid complicating myself, but not because i'm scum. So if you're town, i suggest that you be suspicious of someone else so you don't waste time.

But i'm curious, what did i say that looked suspicious?

[igorsprite]

1 more vote and i start to talk, i want to see who will vote for me

[igorsprite]

@Greeting i'm really not saying too much to avoid complicating myself, but not because i'm scum. So if you're town, i suggest that you be suspicious of someone else so you don't waste time.

But i'm curious, what did i say that looked suspicious?

You basically said very little, if anything. Your posts give the impression of someone who wants to seem active but without providing any content, possibly to avoid implicating yourself.

hmm... noted, ty.

[igorsprite]

1 more vote and i start to talk, i want to see who will vote for me

As you wish. VOTE: igorsprite
You should know you're only acting more and more anti-town. Why withhold your thoughts? You won't get anything from your "wagon" and you're distracting town from actively scumhunting

i'm the tracker, i think it removes the distraction from me.

and i think that frogsfrogs is scum because they vote feels too oportunist

[igorsprite]

@Greeting how comfortable are you now with your vote? u.u

[igorsprite]

If we don't vote Igor out tonight (i'm not implying that's the default, i just think we're a long way off from verifying him) I could offer to check his role by asking him to tell me who I visited, if anyone?

why would i waste my role on you? you can just ask your mafia partner to kill instead of you

VOTE: pseudoAristotle

[igorsprite]

Hey, at least you guys have a confirmed town and know who will die tonight @.@

[igorsprite]

VOTE: implosion

[igorsprite]

i agree with val89, i think that greeting is only complicating the situation, like when he said that my claim is open for interpretation. btw that affirmation contradicts what he said here 119

VOTE: Greeting

[igorsprite]

why are you guys still talking about me ? .-.

[igorsprite]

do you guys have any idea of what i should do? '^'

[igorsprite]

do you guys have any idea of what i should do? '^'

It'd potentially help if you were more open with your thought process; this isn't *as* important in this game as it would be in an average game since your claim makes you very likely town, but it could help if you gave more examples of things you agreed/disagreed with, found indicative of people being townish/scummy, etc.

Right now I'm generally happy with the game state; I have no particular impetus to do much until Thynhith is able to post more and respond to the pressure on him.

hmm... i think that greeting is sus because he is talking too much and that self hammer thing was weird, and i sus frogsfrogs too for sitting on the fence. for the others i don't have any specific thoughts

[igorsprite]

i'm town and i hide my status, so i don't think that is a valid point

[igorsprite]

But you don't think Val89 or MafMen are sus for doing the exact same thing?

yes but i think it's the feeling, you called more my attention

Sure, self-hammer play is controversial, but it doesn't make sense for me to do that while being scum.

If I'm scum, get put at E-1 and do as I said I would, then I will flip scum and no one will listen to what I had to say. Or they will be trying to find out whom I was protecting or deflecting attention from. Also, my team will now consist of just one player.

If I'm put at E-1 and don't do as I said I would, that will be suspicious in its own right and most likely someone else will hammer me anyway. And in the unlikely case that town is unable to find any other player to hammer me, then this will be brought up against me for the rest of the game.

Sounds like pretty poor deal for a scum to be fair. I wouldn't have done that if I were scum or a town PR. It would be unlikely for me to do that in most games, but like I said multiple times before, I think this time it's worth it.

you proposed that because you will not be at E-1, and saying that scum would not do something isn't valid because you could be scum and do that u.u

[igorsprite]

[igorsprite]

VOTE: Thynhith

[igorsprite]

sus if

[igorsprite]

Hi

[igorsprite]

One last things:

@igorsprite:

if you got a report, you should say so

but should not out the contents of the report

. the mafia already know whether or not there is a roleblocker/jailkeeper in the setup, so outing this info can only benefit town.

i didn't use my role last night because i thought that i was already dead

[igorsprite]

Oh, lied about what i did last night to see you guys reaction xd. i used my role and we have a doctor

[igorsprite]

@igorsprite give me one good reason why I should believe your second claim and not vote you out for nonchalantly lying.

because i'm the tracker

[igorsprite]

we can wait the CC and vote for me and the CC next day, the town is already in advantage because no one died last night, so sacrifice a PR to eliminate a scum is fine i guess

[igorsprite]

just clarifying, i'm not the doctor, i said that my role worked and i think that the doctor protected me last night

[igorsprite]

Igorsprite left off of the list as he's a PR claim. I do want him to say what he thinks he got out of that short lie but I think it's scummy if you're full on pushing him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i was waiting catboi's reaction but he didn't say anything, i think that means that it's good for him if i didn't act, coincidentally he acted last night.

@catboi do you have anything to say?

[igorsprite]

For the record, since I am now pushed to hardclaiming VT: my working theory is that the scumteam is highly inexperienced, because it is blatantly obvious who is a PR and I would have killed them last night. It's quite likely that we're in column C, and igor got lucky by claiming tracker in the setup with a jailkeeper.

how do you know that the other PR is a jailkeeper? i said that was a doctor and my action worked

VOTE: catboi

[igorsprite]

i'm pretty sure that the other scum is greeting, you two look very aggressive

[igorsprite]

it's not logical voting for me before the CC appears, and you both cannot CC because a PR would never self hammer and catboi already claimed VT

[igorsprite]

@implosion idk, i said that to instigate catboi because i think that he is scum and his reaction now just confirms that for me. btw we have a jailkeeper that targeted me, not a doctor, idk how catboi knew that because i said that a doctor targeted me

@catboi wtf, bad idea. why do you want the jailkeeper to CC me instead of the "true" tracker? for me you just want to know who is the jailkeeper because you already know that i'm the tracker

[igorsprite]

What the hell is going on here? Why did Greeting and catboi align so quickly after catboi claimed VT, as if that couldn't be false?? Igor, what is it you're saying about your track results? Did you see catboi visit someone or not???

i didn't see lol, the jailkeeper targeted me last night so i received no result

[igorsprite]

igorsprite, how much experience do you have playing mafia?

i played 5 or 6 games i guess

[igorsprite]

igorsprite, how much experience do you have playing mafia?

i played 5 or 6 games i guess

5 or 6 games, where? Where did you get the idea for these reaction test shenanigans you just pulled?

osu. about the idea idk, it's something that i like to do when i'm confirmed town, and my playstyle is pretty anti-town

[igorsprite]

igor these kind of plays will lose a lot more games than they will win games. They'll also piss off a lot more people than they will win games.

I'm busy for a while today but will have a lot more to say later.

we will win this game i'm pretty sure

[igorsprite]

igorsprite, how much experience do you have playing mafia?

i played 5 or 6 games i guess

5 or 6 games, where? Where did you get the idea for these reaction test shenanigans you just pulled?

osu. about the idea idk, it's something that i like to do when i'm confirmed town, and my playstyle is pretty anti-town

What does "osu" refer to?

I ask because there is significant dissonance between your day 1 act of "i'm a noob, idk what i'm doing" and you pulling this test today, as that's a more advanced play than i'd expect from a newbie, which makes me think you're faking being a noob to gain an advantage ingame, which would be very suspicious. You're decidedly not clear, which is why I'm bothering to pursue this line of questioning at all.

https://osu.ppy.sh/home
But i'm noob, idk how to play as town, so i just roleplay as chaotic neutral and get my reads by feeling because it's fun

But hey i'm here to learn

[igorsprite]

Okay. I'll pack away my tinfoil for now and take what you say at face value. I'm still extremely annoyed at how this has all unfolded but just have to move on at this point. I should probably just step away from the game for tonight since I'm too tilted to respond properly. (⁎˃ᆺ˂)

[igorsprite]

Ok but where is Greeting?

[igorsprite]

@implosion idk, i said that to instigate catboi because i think that he is scum and his reaction now just confirms that for me.

So, mind telling me why you thought I was scum in the first place?

I already said, it's the feeling u.u

[igorsprite]

For reference, this is the igorsprite scum game in question, with a link to the post where he fakes a dumbtell about not knowing how many mafia are in the game: https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/top ... 0750?n=186

The setup was NewD3, which is of course the same as this one. That's notable to me because he made this post in this game:

we have 2 scums, right?

Which could have been an attempt to replicate the cred he got for that game.

Hey that was not fake, i really didn't know how many scums were >:(

That was my first game and the first time that the mod modded a game and he forgot to say who was my scum partner, and i thought that i needed to find my scum partners by myself xD

[igorsprite]

For reference, this is the igorsprite scum game in question, with a link to the post where he fakes a dumbtell about not knowing how many mafia are in the game: https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/top ... 0750?n=186

The setup was NewD3, which is of course the same as this one. That's notable to me because he made this post in this game:

we have 2 scums, right?

Which could have been an attempt to replicate the cred he got for that game.

Hey that was not fake, i really didn't know how many scums were >:(

That was my first game and the first time that the mod modded a game and he forgot to say who was my scum partner, and i thought that i needed to find my scum partners by myself xD

Wait you didn't have any sort of private chat?

we had, but we used PM without the mod because she is chinese and don't have discord

[igorsprite]

What "feeling"? Give me some sort of words here, or even literally quote a post you found suspect.

it's secret u.u

joking, i don't remember when i started to sus you .-.

[igorsprite]

What "feeling"? Give me some sort of words here, or even literally quote a post you found suspect.

it's secret u.u

joking, i don't remember when i started to sus you .-.

oh i remember now, was this post

Whatever, not going to dwell on it.

it's only whatever for the mafia >.>

[igorsprite]

tbh i don't sus anyone now, but i want to see what Greeting have to say

[igorsprite]

also those arent "slightly different circumstances," a guaranteed jailkeeper leaves a lot of room to fakeclaim rather than doing what scum!igor could do but nevertheless i get it

And I recognize that, I'm not advocating for voting igorsprite today. The circumstances of the claim would be fairly risky for mafia. But I don't want people shutting their brains off solely on the basis of a claim, which happens too often. If you look at igorsprite's posts after the claim, I think there's good reason to say he's suspect, if not outright scummy. Again, not saying you should flip him now but he should be given scrutiny.

so we don't need to discuss that today, i think that you are just saying that to put the town in doubt

[igorsprite]

also those arent "slightly different circumstances," a guaranteed jailkeeper leaves a lot of room to fakeclaim rather than doing what scum!igor could do but nevertheless i get it

And I recognize that, I'm not advocating for voting igorsprite today. The circumstances of the claim would be fairly risky for mafia. But I don't want people shutting their brains off solely on the basis of a claim, which happens too often. If you look at igorsprite's posts after the claim, I think there's good reason to say he's suspect, if not outright scummy. Again, not saying you should flip him now but he should be given scrutiny.

so we don't need to discuss that today, i think that you are just saying that to put the town in doubt

Yes, igor, I am very definitely trying to put people in doubt! That's the point! Do you think me putting doubt on you is at all useful if I'm going to flip red?

it's useful because you are scum and this doubt is keeping you alive

[igorsprite]

moving my vote to avoid hammer

VOTE: Greeting

[igorsprite]

^ To put it very simply, post 2 has a table with all possible power role combinations in the game. You once claimed to be targeted by a Jailkeeper and saved by a Doctor, which is impossible, because these two roles never appear in one cell.


Making up shit to go honestly is just digging your hole to me.

exactly what frogsfrogs said

Igor said the doctor thing was part of one of the lie gambits. His official statement now, for real no lying, is that he tried to track and was roleblocked by a jailkeeper.

[igorsprite]

moving my vote to avoid hammer

VOTE: Greeting

I don't really think there was any danger of me getting hammered early, but it's appreciated.

it's because i want to hammer you

[igorsprite]

And correct me if I'm wrong, since multiple people have said this, didn't Igor say that he lied, so then it's not a contradiction?

Of course, you can make three different statements and then say that you lied, but this doesn’t necessarily mean that at least one of the statements is true.

so are you saying that the jailkeeper didn't target me?

[igorsprite]

yeah in all honesty i wouldnt be surprised if scum!greeting pushes igor here so they can spend their nk on better prospects

true, it's good for the mafia elim me through vote because i think that they don't want to risk another nk on me

[igorsprite]

I’ll choose a narcissistic way to respond as to why there was no counterclaim: because I repeatedly warned the other PR not to do it and it seems like they might actually know what they’re doing.

lol

[igorsprite]

@frogsfrogs stop saying what i'm thinking, that is uncomfortable ;_;

[igorsprite]

If both are town here then I suspect the game is as good as lost so I really have to hope that isn't the case here, don't know what else I can do.

don't be pessimistic

[igorsprite]

you've shown basically no desire to take the game seriously, you claim you're here to learn but there's basically no attempts to engage with meaningful dialogue with other players, any attempts to discuss your own reasoning have you barely giving any effort in response, your actions ingame come across as someone who's bored more than anything. you strike me as someone who just isn't interested in the style of game here, period, and are basically impossible to work with. Maybe I'm wrong and have misjudged you but you've shown basically no concern for what anyone else thinks so far. Instead you just treat the game as your own sandbox to screw around in.

that always happens when i'm town, especially when i'm a PR ;.;

i tend to be more townie when i'm scum because i feel that i have an obligation to do and i know who are my partners so i don't need to be worried about who i trust, but when i'm town i just don't know what i have to do because i think that i can't trust anyone and it's even worse when i'm a PR because it's obvious to me that i'm town and i think that the others need to trust me no matter what.

sorry if you are town and i frustrated you, but whatever if you are scum

[igorsprite]

Speaking of, to everyone on the Thyn wagon, what was the reason for their elimination? I feel like nobody really went through and talked about that, and I didn't really see anything that particularly pinged me.

Also, I absolutely didn't know that.

i was curious to use my role and see the result of my track, but i regretted that decision the moment that Val hammerer Thyn '^'

[igorsprite]

Rather than apologizing, I'd appreciate it if you tried actually communicating about your reads if you're town. keeping everything to yourself accomplishes nothing and is unfun to deal with. You say you think that you "can't trust anyone", is that true of the game right now?

i town read frogsfrogs, val and implosion because they are saying what i'm thinking, like here 622 and that was uncomfortable because i was sussing frogsfrogs day 1. oh, i town read strangematter too because i think that he is the jailkeeper.

i'm neutral for mafmen

i scum read you and Greeting because you two are accusing me. btw, i want to hammer you because you are changing my read about you and i don't want that to happen

and i like you

[igorsprite]

Sounds from here like you think you have the game solved and I'm not feeling that confident in picking out a full team. You're saying you'd vote MafMen third?

no, i'm just giving more credit to what my town read says. if i put everyone in a metric where 0 is scum and 6 is town, i think that it would be something like this:
1- greeting
2- catboi
3- mafmen
4- val, frogsfrogs and implosion
5- strangematter
6- igorsprite :3

[igorsprite]

Has it occurred to you that scum might want to suck up to you because you're very easily manipulated? That you just treat anyone who takes your side as a friend? Like you'll ride in the car of any stranger who offers you candy?

so are you saying that val, frogsfrogs or implosion is manipulating me?

And, anyway, as a thought exercise: I get voted out today and flip town. How does that affect your read of Greeting?

i will trust him more, i guess

[igorsprite]

Has it occurred to you that scum might want to suck up to you because you're very easily manipulated? That you just treat anyone who takes your side as a friend? Like you'll ride in the car of any stranger who offers you candy?

so are you saying that val, frogsfrogs or implosion is manipulating me?

That's my current view of the game, yes.

Are you manipulating me too?

[igorsprite]

hmm... i think that the mafia is frogsfrogs and val. i don't have a good reason for that assumption, but i think that they are helping each other too much. something that called my attention is that they voted for catboi 665 and thynhith 368

@implosion are you willing to vote for frogsfrogs or val?

[igorsprite]

@frogsfrogs if you are town, vote for val


VOTE: frogsfrogs

[igorsprite]

Alright. I.. see that. And if, by surprise, someone I don't expect

(basically just Igor)

hammers here that's something to maybe examine. I want to flip catboi tomorrow for sure.

VOTE: Val89

VOTE: Val89

[igorsprite]

I am not going to hammer val now and if the day ends in no elim I don't care because we're on an even number of players, it's not going to lose an elim


Val should quit being petty and unvote himself, he can vote me again if he wants

We should absolutely not be ending in a No Elim.

true

[igorsprite]

now i'm in doubt '^'

UNVOTE:

[igorsprite]

VOTE: Greeting

[igorsprite]

The jailkeeper should claim today with their targets, absolutely. I assume they targeted the scum carrying the nightkill, because I wouldn't expect scum to not be aiming for a PR with how narrow things were.

i was the target again

[igorsprite]

The jailkeeper should claim today with their targets, absolutely. I assume they targeted the scum carrying the nightkill, because I wouldn't expect scum to not be aiming for a PR with how narrow things were.

i was the target again

and i'm not lying btw

[igorsprite]

Setup Information

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

If there is a town jailkeeper and town tracker, there is a mafia roleblocker. So it's not guaranteed that the jailkeeper targeted igorsprite.

but why they don't kill me? ._.

[igorsprite]

Howdy! It me, the jailkeeper.

I targeted catboi, then StrangeMatter,

not

igor. Notably,

neither of them can be the roleblocker

: if either of them were, then igor would have gotten a result on the corresponding night.

the roleblocker is frogsfrogs, mafmen or val then

i still think that keeping the tracker alive is a bad play

[igorsprite]

hmm i think that i know who is the roleblocker 424 425

VOTE: frogsfrogs

[igorsprite]

If we eliminate the goon today then we gain 2 clears.

how?

because the roleblocker is among you, val and frogsfrogs, so catboi and strange can't be scum if we elim the goon

[igorsprite]

well, I'll just give yall my initial gut reads,
Margo's entrance, now Val, screams town to me, I don't see scum with the first posts like that
Igor's entrance, not good, felt scummy to me
frogs entrance is really good, that screams town
pseudo, now strange, is suspicious, but I don't think it's WITH Igor

and that's what I got

how you, frogs and val is town if we have a roleblocker among you three? xD

VOTE: Andante

[igorsprite]

is she your partner?

[igorsprite]

@catboi ok i will trust you, andante is town, now we have 50% chance of winning the game today.

who do you think that is the rb, val or frogs?

UNVOTE:

[igorsprite]

igor: if we eliminate scum today

, I will target Val no matter what (this is assuming we aren't limming him today). I want you to target either frogs or Andante (whoever we didn't eliminate) no matter what. Please explicitly acknowledge this.

oke

[igorsprite]

@Andante you act like me

[igorsprite]

@Andante you act like me

And you're town. Thus, I'm town. gg. I told yall the game is solved!!!

but i'm not town >.>

[igorsprite]

lolol she means town faction, not specifically vt igor. do you want to take that one back?

it was a joke ( °-°)

she said that she was town because i was town too, then i said that i was not town to contradict her

[igorsprite]

VOTE: Andante

[igorsprite]

oh, i'm alive O.o

VOTE: frogsfrogs

[igorsprite]

HA! take that catboi and implosion, we won, i said to be more optimistic u.u

is obvious that frogfrogs is scum because val voted andante and we still have a roleblocker between frogsfrogs and val.

btw i never tracked catboi night 1(or 2 i don't remember :v), i didn't say that earlier to not create more confusion. i tracked frogsfrogs all nights and last night my role worked and frogsfrogs didn't act.

[igorsprite]

You just need to be hundred percent clear with us here, Igor.

The only way we are possibly losing this game now is if you are giving us information that's isn't reliable.

You *tried* to track frogsfrogs on N1, but got a 'no result' or 'your action was blocked' or whatever the result is whenever there is a roleblocker, correct?

blocked night 1 and 2, no result night 3

just vote for frogsfrogs ._.

[igorsprite]

UNVOTE:

No, wait. No result n3? That's different to "it worked and frogs didn't visit anyone", no?

I've never played tracker. Can someone who has confirm what the results

should

be when roleblocked, and when the target doesn't visit?

sry, "no result" when i was blocked and "visited no one" when worked

[igorsprite]

now vote, we still have a roleblocker and it's you or frogsfrogs

[igorsprite]

Works for me. The only way this isn't a win now is if Igor is faking

as town

, and one would hope he would realise the situation and own up right the fuck now, if so.

If he is faking as scum, we still win: Flip frogs, Jail Igor, Flip me (on the assumption I'm scum deliberately no-killing), Jail Igor, that's still 3 town v 1 scum. Even if I were the Roleblocker, getting a kill off tonight still leaves it 3 town v 1 scum tomorrow while clearing Igor.

This game is done. The order of the flipping me and frogs doesn't technically matter either for the win, but in the interests of speed:

VOTE: Frogsfrogs.

yay!

[igorsprite]

@catboi anything to say about my incredible read skill? u.u

[igorsprite]

i always knew that frogsfrogs was scum u.u

[igorsprite]

it was fun :p

[igorsprite]

Igor please don’t lie multiple times you threw way too much chaos into this game lol.

^^'

[igorsprite]

Yeah, igor that play was

bad

. Don't do it again like ever, PLEASE.

hey, that was useful >.>