Open 835: D6 | Songs About Ronald Reagan | Day 5
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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Oracle
Sounds like the Role Oracle might get to ask the mod if there's a certain role in the game?Hey!- numberQ
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Thought you were asking me at first, then I realized "Q" probably just means "question".
Considering no other things have happened or are happening, I say thing it up. Why is your vote better off the wagon than on it?
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Definitely at least one scum on that quick wagon. Not sure if it's ssbm or if she just has bad reads. 86 is the exact opposite of stalling, so if you're going to SR me for it at least try to be consistent. The vote in 94 was what, E-3? In no world is that claim fishing. 118 was such an obvious joke that if it somehow did get Gamma to claim otherwise, I'd say we deserve whatever we get coming to us for it.Hey!- numberQ
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The only one of those that's close to opportunistic is the last one. I strongly believe one of the best ways to drive early discussion is to throw wagons around and see what discussions fall out. Case in point, this wagon on me has produced a discussion that is making me TR you.In post 149, Roden wrote:You say we're oppotunistic for voting you. By those same standards, do you not consider your own votes and pushes opportunistic?
In post 50, numberQ wrote:Well it says "Mafia Scum" under Roden's username so I think you're onto something.
VOTE: RodenIn post 52, Not_Mafia wrote:Unironically Roden is scumIn post 53, numberQ wrote:Then vote themIn post 94, numberQ wrote:VOTE: Gamma
He said there was nothing important to discuss so let's make something to discuss.Hey!- numberQ
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It being opportunistic or not is unrelated to either of those things.In post 154, PenguinPower wrote:Is it opportunistic when you announce the exact reason why your doing it and it doesn’t end up being false?Hey!- numberQ
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Someone can place a vote and give it a reason, and still be doing so opportunistically. That's how they try and hide the opportunism. Scum will not just be trying to come up with fake reads on people, but also try to time it right to keep up the momentum. So they will often hold back on saying things until the opportunity presents itself.In post 163, PenguinPower wrote:In post 156, numberQ wrote:
It being opportunistic or not is unrelated to either of those things.In post 154, PenguinPower wrote:Is it opportunistic when you announce the exact reason why your doing it and it doesn’t end up being false?
uh…..ok. It’s not opportunistic if the reason for your action has basis and is not simply because the opportunity presents itself.Hey!- numberQ
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Why should you be? I didn't like your vote bouncing off and on Gamma so rapidly.In post 196, Enchant wrote:
Why i am not in town list?In post 180, numberQ wrote:Early reads, in order from towniest to scummiest:
Town:
Roden
Penguin
Leantown:
A50
ssbm
redtea
Gamma
Null:
Galron
mozamis
Not_Mafia
Leanscum:
Enchant
Egix
Meg
Scum:
numberQ
I can elaborate on any of these if asked but I'm not going to elaborate on all of them right now, too much work.
(That was a joke on the same level as when I jokingly implied Gamma was VT, btw)In post 198, Almost50 wrote:Did you notice who is confirmed scum, btw?Hey!- numberQ
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Partially meta. I don't really know what your scum game looks like, but you're giving me the same vibes as from NEP3. You were on side "meme game" in that one, but still, you were town and looked like this.In post 200, Almost50 wrote:
Are you saying the rest of the readlist was serious? because I assumed it was all upside down tbh. If you did mean I was a Town lean to you I would like a short explanation. I don't think i did anything alliance indicative thus far, unless you're meta-reading me. Is that it?In post 199, numberQ wrote:(That was a joke on the same level as when I jokingly implied Gamma was VT, btw)
Otherwise it's just a vague feeling I get from your posts. 168 in particular didn't feel like scum because I don't think scum would blatantly say that instead of giving a few fake reads.
Admittedly, a somewhat weak read. Maybe you should be a couple slots lower, though still in the leantown category.
Penguin questioning and then voting me felt genuine. Idk, I generally townread people who question me and/or scumread me, at least in the early game.In post 220, Roden wrote:
I'm vibing with this reads list for the most part.In post 180, numberQ wrote:Early reads, in order from towniest to scummiest:
Town:
Roden
Penguin
Leantown:
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ssbm
redtea
Gamma
Null:
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mozamis
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numberQ
I can elaborate on any of these if asked but I'm not going to elaborate on all of them right now, too much work.
Why are you town reading Penguin?
If you're vibing with it for the most part, what stands out to you as not vibe-worthy?Hey!- numberQ
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In post 226, Galron wrote:
I'm a saint, you know. I'm a living saint, and I get absolutely nothing out of it.In post 224, numberQ wrote:I can tell I'm not going to enjoy Galron's gimmick, even if I like the source material... It's not even a wild or potentially meme-worthy setup, I don't get bringing RP stuff like that into games like this.Hello darkness my old friend...Hey!- numberQ
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My read on you was pretty much entirely based on your 166. I'm not seeing the throughline of logic or emotion for you to land on a vote for redtea or TRs for Roden/Meg. Which to me smells like scum trying to fake reads.In post 231, Egix96 wrote:
Eh, I feel like his reaction to being wagoned was slightly more towny than not. I'm curious as to why he leans scum on me though, and also Roden implicitly agreeing.In post 213, Not_Mafia wrote:Someone put Q on E-1 please
More recently, I don't like 235. Gamma ultimatelywasn'tyeeted, which I think is much more telling thanalmostgetting yeeted. (not you, Almost )
Egix, do you have any opinions on Enchant getting pissed off by his wagon? I have thoughts but I'd like to hear yours first.Hey!- numberQ
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Hmm. I kind of see the utility in doing that. But I also see at least one situation where this will just out a PR, particularly cops. If a non-cop and a cop both target someone who is widely SRed, then the non-cop is essentially forced to claim a guilty verdict as part of this smokescreen strategy. Because if they claim innocent, their SR will have to change to a TR, otherwise they're admitting that they are not the cop and the whole strategy is useless. But if the targeted player actually is town, then the real cop will have to claim an innocent result, otherwise the breadcrumb is useless. Which pretty much outs them as the cop.
Might be more examples of how this outs PRs, haven't sat down and thought through every possible scenario.Hey!- numberQ
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I think Enchant's strategy will be chaotic at best, and actively out PRs at worst. The possible town utility seems more difficult to achieve, and has to survive into lategame anyway to actually be useful. Whether or not scum!Enchant was planning on that, it's hard to say, especially if he got the strat from the wiki. So I'm currently not putting any stock in it alignment-wise at all. Might be something to consider if Enchant survives to tomorrow, to sort him out later based on further reads. But for now, with very little else to go on day 1 so far, I'm gonna vote himHey!- numberQ
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I don't think I've seen the episodes of Arrested Development Galron is quoting today
Gamma has dropped way down my reads list. I don't have time right now to say more about it because work. Still pretty sure Roden is town, though I haven't looked back at his stuff knowing the two flips yet.
pedit: afaict A50 is correct. A town tracker only exists if the I slot was rolled 4 times, which leaves 2 more rolls for the other slots. 1 P + 1 K = Bodyguard and 1-shot vig. 2 P = Doctor. 2 K = 2-shot vig.Hey!- numberQ
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I was going to build a case on Gamma centered around his interactions with the Enchant wagon, but looking back through posts 202 until the hammer, I think I convinced myself those interactions were more town than not. I still think the vote on Galron was bad, but I changed my mind about Gamma being scum for now.
I poked around a few other ISOs to try and make sense of my reads in light of the Enchant flip. And I still like Egix for scum, though it would be nice to get some more activity out of him.
moz voted N_M, TRed redtea, TRed Roden, soft TRed Enchant, and voted N_M again. Their case on N_M seemed to be purely policy as far as I could tell, so I don't think scum were setting up a mislim. If redtea or Roden are scum, maybe they wanted us all to see TRs come to them from a town flip.In post 380, Almost50 wrote:Can anyone explain why Moz was the kill here? I don't see a crumb in his ISO, I don't think he made any serious reads, and I don't think he was globally TR'd even.
Honestly though, I think there's a strong chance it was to provide us as little info as possible with the flip. You could argue Galron or N_M would be better choices if that was the goal, but A) maybe they're scum, and B) if they're town I think there was enough support D1 to mislim either of them that scum might bank on that happening later.Hey!- numberQ
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Are you trying to tell me 212 wasn't beneficial?In post 394, Almost50 wrote:Why am I( not being wagoned in this game?? I haven't done anything remotely beneficial and I have no clue on DAY TWO. Kinda feel intrigued tbh.
Also, as for the Moz kill I tried to see if someone had "extensive experience" with him. Turns out Gamma (8 games), Myself (7 games) and N_M (6 games) are the only players than count, and it would be hypocritic to accuse either of Gamma/N_M and pretend not to be a suspect for the same reason.
P.S. Search continues to work in a funny way. It fails to find ANY games for Moz that has Meg in them, and any for Meg that have Moz in them. Everyone else has at least THIS ONE showing, but for some odd reason "No suitable matches were found." shows every time I try searching for one of them in the other's topics.
Anyway I like the pressure on Egix.
VOTE: EgixHey!- numberQ
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Penguin had the opportunity to unvote Gamma and prevent a N_M quickhammer, but didn't take it. Do you think this means anything about Gamma's alignment if Penguin is scum?In post 413, Egix96 wrote:Sigh I feel like I'm getting nowhere. NumberQ has the best posting imo, in a vacuum it would have been Roden instead but I'm too paranoid.
Penguin's ISO is the most underwhelming. He seems more invested in chiming in to say barely-helpful things than actually producing content.
VOTE: PenguinPowerHey!- numberQ
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Really interested in hearing how this post is town motivated whatsoever.In post 426, Gamma Emerald wrote:Because that took a few minutes to look into and was a one-and-done
Also: I know how you work and I think the less I substantiate my push on you, the better it’ll work outHey!- numberQ
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What the fuck? Every post in that interaction felt hugely disproportionate to the emotional reaction warranted to what was actually being said. I don't know if you guys both have weird chips on your shoulders or what. Tempted to say TvT but I don't know, getting a pingy feeling that it's all highly performative and you could be SvS.Hey!- numberQ
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It's partly gut making me think Roden and Penguin are the same alignment. Trying to put it into words, it's something like, I'm not sure scum would fight against town that hard in this scenario. It draws a lot of attention to themselves for what seems like little gain.Maybeit's SvT with scum!Penguin, and this is all to stop their wagon. But it'd be an odd strategy, I'd sooner expect a buddy instead of the scum himself to make a push like this, chainsaw style.Hey!- numberQ
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To be fair, Squid Game was weird. And the parts I was alive for were barely Mafia lolIn post 532, Gamma Emerald wrote:
That seems logical actuallyIn post 529, numberQ wrote:It's partly gut making me think Roden and Penguin are the same alignment. Trying to put it into words, it's something like, I'm not sure scum would fight against town that hard in this scenario. It draws a lot of attention to themselves for what seems like little gain.Maybeit's SvT with scum!Penguin, and this is all to stop their wagon. But it'd be an odd strategy, I'd sooner expect a buddy instead of the scum himself to make a push like this, chainsaw style.
I was a little sus of you for that post in general because you posted some stuff like it in Squid Game and u were scum there
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I think redtea is asking the right questions to Egix, particularly 535 and 555. Egix's answers make me more confident in my scumread of him.
I'd also like Egix to flip because I think scum!Egix points towards town!Penguin. Both for Penguin's vote on him at day start, and for Egix's 413.Hey!- numberQ
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Thank you Almost50, very cool!
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Scum can easily use a previous fake push as bait for a chainsaw, you don't have to come up with a new one. And I think your pushes on me are bad and totally unsubstantiated aside from a single nonsense argument way early in the game. Also, if you think I'm bussing then I was doing it from day 1, where I put my scumbuddy almost at the bottom of my reads list. Why would scum!me do that without provocation?In post 569, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:P sure I have been pushing you as scum since before Egix was a hot topic, what makes you think this is a chainsaw? Curious because the feeling I get right now is that you're trying me to your buddy as you bus them (assuming you're scum here)Hey!- numberQ
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Do you think the other scum then goes on to bus their partner back, and argue vehemently for several pages that it's not a real scum read, it's just to have a competing wagon? It's like they're both aiming at each other without having any good reasons for it. You see this same thing with how both their attacks on each other fizzled. Penguin jumped off Egix pretty quickly onto a non-wagon, followed by Egix saying he never had a strong read on Penguin in the first place.In post 581, redtea wrote:
Scum makes posts like #413 with their partner all the time thoughIn post 560, numberQ wrote: I'd also like Egix to flip because I think scum!Egix points towards town!Penguin. Both for Penguin's vote on him at day start, and for Egix's 413.
Well shit, I think while writing those sentences I convinced myself it could be SvS actually.Hey!- numberQ
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What is that, both wagons at 4 votes? We have a little less than 24 hours left in the deadline. I still think Egix is scummier even if there's a possibility of them both being scum, so wouldprefermy vote to be here. But if we get too much closer to the deadline I'm willing to switch to avoid a no kill.Hey! - numberQ
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