Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Datisi]

good morning friends!!

VOTE: vp baltar

@mod vla every tuesday and thursday due to uni

i have a slight scumping on a certain person who may or may not be the person i voted, but i want to see if anything else happens first

[Datisi]

also obligatory skitt/pooky pls get avatar, it makes the game so much easier for me to read if everyone has one

[Datisi]

ico, i see you're online, why are you lurking

[Datisi]

the fucking beetlejuice lol

ico, what alignment did you roll

[Datisi]

oh yeah, they were talking about drinking

i'm about to legit start drinking at half past noon on a wednesday

[Datisi]

the fucking beetlejuice lol

ico, what alignment did you roll

i'm a sad sad dragon

you can take that as you will

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Datisi]

i don't understand how you could possibly be sad if you had randed town in this beauty of a playerlist

[Datisi]

oh yeah right, you were one away form breaking the record

pedit: i am unironically thinking that you don't sound like you want to commit the unalive

take that as you will

[Datisi]

really? where the gut reaction of fear that i'm pocketing you? :3

[Datisi]

dats did we roll t/t for like the first time this year or?

why did you make this post, ico

[Datisi]

dats did we roll t/t for like the first time this year or?

why did you make this post, ico

because i'm curious

what do you think the answer is

[Datisi]

alternatively, if you know, you can tell me the answer

going into this game, i was convinced that by now i would have had a read on you that i would be at least 98% sure about

that has not happened and i am worried

[Datisi]

vp, i can fight you if those two aren't up for it, if you want

[Datisi]

oh yeah right, i have to gladiate you if we both survive to day 3, i forgot about that

also, hmmmmm. you're saying i will get paranoid of you on day 3. but whenever we were both town, i got killed before day 3. you're planning on keeping me alive and trying to pocket me this game, huh?

pedit: @vp

[Datisi]

ico, are you really surprised that i expected to have a read on you by this point?

[Datisi]

oh god i'm sounding like luca blight

"datisi, it's page 3 already, why aren't you obvtown yet?"

[Datisi]

rekt

[Datisi]

i do not :c

[Datisi]

So.. what is the name of the setup where Town started with 2 PRs and for every PR scum picks for themselves (up to 3) Town gains an additional PR??

stack the deck?

[Datisi]

Is that true? Feel like there were a couple where we made it to day 3. Didn't Jungle Oligarchy go that long?

nope. i died n2 in jungle oligarchy and in that mini normal where you were a friendly neighbour, and n1 in that other mini normal.

i did keep spectating jungle oligarchy pretty closely after i died though, so it does feel a bit longer than two days for me.

[Datisi]

bingle, i've been obvtown since page two, try to keep up

[Datisi]

i am shocked you think i would ever shoot you </3

[Datisi]

enchant, you could always try forming some reads instead

[Datisi]

i am sad nobody tried to interact with my "i have scumpings on someone" post.

it was VOTE: enchant

this is where i would say "mindmeld with baltar, he's probably town", but then i remembered what logic my brain came up with for this scumping, so it's probably not a mindmeld.

for whoever played in the pyp i modded recently, does enchant's intro here have weird vibes that remind of their intro there or am i imagining it

also gamma sounds kinda flat to me right now

[Datisi]

If i was maf I would put Innocent Child, Jailkeeper and Tracker. More optimal i think.

Bee is Vigilante 100%.

i don't know why the first post really reminded me of the second post, but it did

[Datisi]

"but datisi, thinking someone is scum because they made one post that was similar to this one other post they once made as scum is stupid" yes i know shut up

[Datisi]

If i was maf I would put Innocent Child, Jailkeeper and Tracker. More optimal i think.

Bee is Vigilante 100%.

i don't know why the first post really reminded me of the second post, but it did

Do you really searched all my games to find this

dude, i modded that game, i read it

[Datisi]

I just read the scum PT from mini 2246 and I’m pretty happy datisi ID’d I was his traitor pretty effectively

ye, i did figure it out pretty quickly

one of the reasons i figured it out though was because i knew ico was a traitor and i thought he was softing you were the other traitor because he wrote you me and t3 with proper capital letters in the same post, only to post game realize he thought a50 was the other traitor

but you know, all's well that ends well

[Datisi]

Bingle is town.

could you elaborate on this claim

[Datisi]

Then i am surprised you remember my posts.

*points at title*

[Datisi]

gamma, why do you think ico is town?

[Datisi]

Then i am surprised you remember my posts.

*points at title*

What

my title is "drawn from memory" because i usually remember unimportant things like that

pay no mind that i can't remember what i had for breakfast this morning

[Datisi]

oh, oh, skitt, why is a50 town?

i'll probably stop pestering everyone after this, for now

[Datisi]

i am the only person here allowed to pocket skitter

[Datisi]

I don’t really know what he’s doing playing up the not knowing the name typo thing, but it doesn’t seem like the kind of thing scum gets any advantage out of.

why is this something that you felt needed to be pointed out? like, the "who is [misspelling of their name]" seemed like an obvious joke/sarcasm post to me, i don't think town or scum tries to accomplish anything with it.

Link to the scum game you’re pinging off of?

i linked it in 168. (the second linked post is the post in question from the scumgame.)

[Datisi]

@skitt, is there a reason you haven't changed your vote yet

@cakez, do you wanna fuckin go

[Datisi]

i'm tired and will probably be asleep within the next 2 hours

if you instead wanna just normally elaborate on your issues with me poking the dragon, that also works i guess

[Datisi]

baltar, have you ever played a single game with bingle

[Datisi]

baltar, have you ever played a single game with bingle

Nope. Going on first impressions here. Is this a thing he always does that I'm reading wrong?

yep, the "laying out the most pro-town mechanical strategy, regardless of his own alignment" is kind of his thing, at least early.

[Datisi]

i *really* want to figure out in which way can i spin the general "townreading someone because they are being mechanically helpful" as scummy, and the best i got so far is that it's lazy because it's townreading something that's fairly easy to replicate as scum, and only scum is lazy with their townreads like that because they don't actually care about solving

that'll have to do i guess

[Datisi]

please don't be pointing out the blatant hypocrisies i have to commit to be able to scumread you, thanks

[Datisi]

And Enchant getting pressure like this early I think is town-indicating for him ngl

why is that?

pedit: uh oh

[Datisi]

i'm not sure that meme of a game is the perfect example to be drawing these conclusions from

but i am personally more interested in how you were thinking that enchant is more likely to receive pressure as town, while they were being pressured by two people you put into your townblock

[Datisi]

i'm not sure that meme of a game is the perfect example to be drawing these conclusions from

but i am personally more interested in how you were thinking that enchant is more likely to receive pressure as town, while they were being pressured by two people you put into your townblock

Think of how long it took to actually get the wagon on enchant to be a thing in HoS_S, that’s what I’m basing this on, him getting wagoned early is a towntell and despite it not going very far I saw seed for it starting to happen

i'm not sure how "taking a bit to be wagoned in one scumgame" -> "getting wagoned early in another game is a towntell".

like, even if we say that it took so long to get their wagon up because scum didn't want to bus (which is only about half true anyway), then that is not applicable to this game because you are townreading both the people that voted them.

is there another reason why a wagon would be difficult to get onto scum!them but not town!them?

[Datisi]

i dunno scum enchant is p passive afair

enchant is just an extremely passive player as either alignment in my experience, so

[Datisi]

Dats how are you reading ico rn?

~ skitter

i think 90 is still an up-to-date post on that, i'll get back to you when i have something solid

[Datisi]

Can you elaborare a little more on what u mean by worried?

~ skitter

not really since i want to again pick up that conversation with ico as soon as possible and i'd want to read his pure responses to it. you can ask me later if you want.

[Datisi]

ehh. agreed skitter is making much more sense here than dunn. also, if skitter said that she townleaned me because i posted "hi", i would definitely question her about it, but maybe that's just me.

[Datisi]

skitt, what's your read on me right now? assuming it's not also on standby while we wait for ico.

and, when you said that i have an extremely good read on ico in that last mini, were you being genuine, or?

[Datisi]

and, when you said that i have an extremely good read on ico in that last mini, were you being genuine, or?

Also why are you asking this ?
Do you think i *shouldnt* think you're good at reading ico?

~ skitter

i'm asking because i didn't want to take it at face value, considering you said it while you were scum. and i wanted to avoid potential future scenarios where you go "yes dats, i know you said you think ico is X but i didn't actually think you're good at reading him when i said it so i will now rather push Y".

[Datisi]

why do people SR dats, this feels like real thought process

people scumread me?

[Datisi]

Also, where's this dragon at?

going by the european time, he should've been here about 8-9 hours ago until now. so either a really busy day, or the dragon is afraid of me.

[Datisi]

Want to see that interaction plays out

same. >_>

[Datisi]

Imo if i had gun i would shot Sleepless Assassin.

Why?

First post.

what about that post is scummy?

[Datisi]

why do you townread iconeum?

[Datisi]

enchant, can you actually answer the questions people have for you and play the game you signed up to play

[Datisi]

I like style of posting, feels familiar.

as far as i know, your only game with iconeum was that where he was scum, so what does this mean?

[Datisi]

sorry cakez i literally forgot you exist

[Datisi]

*opens notebook with questions i ask when someone scumreads me*

cakez, can you elaborate on your read on me? like, do you find anything else scummy other than that one post? and what's actually scummy about it?

[Datisi]

i have a galaxy brain take on why cakez and pooky do not share a scum pt

also cakez needs a lesson on how i read the dragon, but that will come with time

[Datisi]

the above post should not be taken as me scumreading either of those slots, i am currently townleaning gamma and [redacted] on pooky/skitt

but yeah

[Datisi]

the above post should not be taken as me scumreading either of those slots, i am currently townleaning gamma and [redacted] on pooky/skitt

townleaning cakez*

i am not townleaning gamma

[Datisi]

Why? I TR all 3 voters so I was going to sheep

can you give a tl;dr on each of those townreads please

[Datisi]

the above post should not be taken as me scumreading either of those slots, i am currently townleaning gamma and [redacted] on pooky/skitt

but yeah

I am curious

~ skitter

[on standby until her standby read on me and ico is revealed] is more accurate, but [redacted] sounds cooler

[Datisi]

my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

[Datisi]

no, i was hoping to figure out why you're allegedly townreading me when i feel like i've done next to nothing so far this game, you historically said you cannot read me, and we just walked out of a game where you heavily blundered a read on me, but alas.

[Datisi]

i have no clue what that means (might be because it's way past my bedtime) but no, it is not because of that

[Datisi]

i have a galaxy brain take on why cakez and pooky do not share a scum pt

also cakez needs a lesson on how i read the dragon, but that will come with time

What the hell does this post even mean lmao

it means i think that if one of you or pooky flip scum, the other is probably not a partner

it means you're scumleaning me for things i use to read ico and it's annoying

i think you're prob town because your push on me feels pretty tone deaf in a way that scum usually doesn't do, plus tonally you feel fine (that is a weaker point as i am not hugely familiar with your tone as town and scum)

[Datisi]

I was confused by why Datisi doesn't think pooky and sircakez can be scum together.

they *can*, i just don't think it's likely. mainly, i think it's decently unlikely scum!cakez attacks me with a push that bad if pooky is in the scum pt with him, i believe pooky thinks i am very prone to omgus-ing, and i'm generally loud and annoying and likely to be townread as town. generally not a good thing to get on your ass if you're scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dunn

Legit think there are two scum in (Dunn, Gamma, enchant, Ico)

Game is moving too fast and they can't keep with the pace. Sleeper scum in the actives.

i think i just had some vietnam war flashbacks

VOTE: dunnstral

anyway, what makes you think there can't be all scum in that group? any idea who the deepwolf would be?

[Datisi]

also, obligatory that is NM-1, anyone who lets n_m hammer already is getting policied tomorrow if dunn is green, etc

[Datisi]

I still need to find the time to check dats’ linked meta, but I’m getting the same energy from WYLTBMH from enchant specifically.

what does this mean? do these two reads connect with one another somehow? and what game is that?

ico, are you really surprised that i expected to have a read on you by this point?

just a little bit yeah

considering what happened in the last game... why?

@skitt, is there a reason you haven't changed your vote yet

@cakez, do you wanna fuckin go

scum!tisi up for a fight?

always, but scum!tisi isn't here right now >_>

do you wish to express a scumread on that post or would you just like to provoke me?

[Datisi]

Mostly think it can't be all the scum because I'm not that good.

fair enough

what makes you put iconeum in there?

[Datisi]

i saw your question, skitt

the sad truth is that it's still on standby

[Datisi]

my bad

i plead the fifth

[Datisi]

i'm not yet ready to give a read. i've seen ico make better posts as scum and worse posts as town. we're not in a rush, and you'll have to trust the process a bit,

[Datisi]

/shrug

if i'm not ready to give a read, i'm not going to force it. do you think there's scum! motivation behind what i'm doing?

pedit: @skitt

[Datisi]

I'd probably place Datisi higher.

[Datisi]

the question isfor you to elaborate if you can.

[Datisi]

umm...

[Datisi]

and skitt, not really. ico isn't under any heat, i wouldn't have a problem making up a read on him, and just because i didn't say anything doesn't mean i don't have thoughts. but this feels like a not very fruitful discussion.

[Datisi]

baltar, i'm gonna give you 5 minutes to come back to your senses, then we can try again.

[Datisi]

okay

i was scum against you in mini normal 2195, with dunn and green crayon

anyway, what makes you think there can't be all scum in that group? any idea who the deepwolf would be?

Mostly think it can't be all the scum because I'm not that good.

And yes this is flashbacks big time!

so do you mind explaining to me how you acknowledged my reference to that game here (the game where you pushed dunn early and i had to make up nonsense to get him out alive), but a few hours later you apparently have no memory of playing with scum!me?

[Datisi]

you've gotta be kidding me.

[Datisi]

i spilled blood, sweat, and tears over that game? and you tell me you don't even remember i was scum in it? my fucking god

[Datisi]

someone more objective than me, tell me if there's any scum!motivation in lying about this.

[Datisi]

enchant, you play in a shit ton of games and barely do anything in them. i wouldn't expect you to remember things like that.

[Datisi]

someone more objective than me, tell me if there's any scum!motivation in lying about this.

actually, someone more objective than me, tell me if it sounds like a lie. i figured out the scum motivation, but it requires a tinfoil hat.

[Datisi]

how am I being tone deaf?

your push on me is not going to get you anywhere, i think back then pretty much everyone had a positive or neutral opinion of me

*and* you attacked my sorting of ico, something which was very much regarded as "leave datisi alone and let him work his magic, for last game he successfully read ico by page 4"

like. your push on me is more tone deaf than i am irl, and that's saying something

[Datisi]

i spilled blood, sweat, and tears over that game? and you tell me you don't even remember i was scum in it? my fucking god

It's coming back to me now of course!

Keep in mind, I am old and I haven't thought about mafia in like 8 months because I was on a work project.

not sure where you're getting december 2020, since our last game ended around late april or early may this year...

anyway, if your memory is now refreshed, mind giving an update on your read of me?

[Datisi]

nah, 2195 and 2207 were both after hidden temple

(the reason i know when hidden temple was is because i was actually thinking about inning with ico into it, then we decided against it and joined something else, and i ended up loosely spectating the game anyway, i am not a stalker i swear)

i had a very good scumcase planned out in my mind, and now it feels like it got left out of the fridge overnight and got half spoiled

i will *probably* present my thoughts anyway, since maybe it will be useful for someone else, but it requires digging up some older stuff, and that will have to wait as i am currently chilling with a coffee and playing videogames

[Datisi]

that's not what i'm saying? i'm saying scum!you would be very aware you're wasting your time here. objectively, nobody is scumreading me other than you. and that is what you originally attacked me for.

push on enchant being that of lhf, anything else?

[Datisi]

outside of mafia in life do you consider yourself an overthinker?

yes

tinfoil will come within 3-5 business hours

[Datisi]

actually make that within 1-5, i don't think i feel like playing this game for 3 more hours

[Datisi]

so, my out-of-the-fridge-overnight scumcase of vp baltar:

the last two games the two of us have played together are mini normal 2195 and mini normal 2207. for the purposes of this post, all you need to know about 2195 is that i was scum, baltar was town, and his read on me was... not very correct.

in 2207, we were both town. however, due to the game taking place some two weeks after 2195, it took us a while to figure that out. somewhat early on in the game, this sequence between baltar and luca took place: (bolded and underlined the currently relevant parts)

Spoiler:

Datisi Town

Norwee Town
Geraint Town

IV scum

Calling town reads quick on folks who might be argumentative and calling IV scum when he's being silly, plus OMGUSing slightly cause I poked him.

Sounds like Luca is scumming it up on the path of least resistance over there.

I have a lot of experience with Datisi and Norwee and they both seem Town so far

Scum can be silly too

My opinion on you has nothing to do with Omgus, and is more in line with what Norwegian touched on before - you’re commenting on stuff but not really doing anything with it. Right now you’re assuming motives behind my reads without even bothering to question them

I have lots of experience with Datisi as well. It is too early to tell his alignment.

Repeating a point from Norwegian about me (which is very eh to begin with) is definitely in line with OMGUS.

in which baltar immediately pushed back on luca's townread on me, saying that it's way too early for it.

a little bit later on, i called him out for not having a read on me by that point (when i thought he should have one), and these are parts of our conversation that followed:

Spoiler:

i feel like he shouldn't be dead null on me still?

Why? You're gonna have to build trust with me after I went easy on you last game. Clearly the things I find town from your playstyle are fakeable, so I think I have every right to be skeptical of my ability there, yeah?

I'm not saying there aren't differences. But but but...I'd expect you to make alterations if you DID happen to draw scum with me again.

For example, a big tell you did drop in that game was just never really pushing on me. (In some ways, I don't want to say this aloud, but I'm sure you know already). I can see you aren't doing that here, but I'm WIFOMing myself that perhaps you wouldn't do that again. FWIW, nothing about you this game has pinged me on a gut level as bad yet, which is a good sign. I did have some of those pings last game and I stupidly dismissed them as my own paranoia.

I do think I'll be able to sort you, but I expect it will take me a bit longer this time around.

so what's the reason for you shutting down luca's townread of me then? @vp obviously

Because you are a good player, which he knows, and the better a player is, the more time you should probably take to be sure you're sorting them correctly.

and, my personal favourite:

Spoiler:

I hope your scum win made you happy, because now I see darkness behind every corner.

all of these are showing a healthy dose of paranoia of me. most of his play around me that game, especially early, was careful. he wasn't letting me pick up easy townreads, because he knew how much damage scum!me can do when i'm being townread.

compare these quotes to this game? it's night and day. there is NO paranoia, there is zero caution, he's calling me town for most flimsy reasoning of gut and vibes, he doesn't concern himself at all that the vast majority of the game is townreading me for potentially bad reasons. he's vibing. this is why i asked him to elaborate on his townread of me. without actually solid reasons, it just... felt like pocketing.

however, if he truly didn't remember that i was scum in 2195, and wasn't thinking of that game at all, then i'm not sure just how much of this scumcase is valid. typing it out, i do like it again, but ehhh.

as for the tinfoil of lying about not remembering a game that i mentioned in 603: if he realized that he's "forgotten" to show paranoia of me, and realized that i know he should be showing paranoia of me, then "haha i just didn't remember that one game where you had a good scum performance!" is a way to get out of being caught on the basis of not showing paranoia.

also, unrelated to the above, 483 and 489 are disgusting, but i have to run through some meta checks to see if they're scum!indicative. those meta checks require reading through a few isos to see if my memory of games that took place a year and a half ago is correct. that will have to wait, as that is not something i feel like doing on a friday night.

[Datisi]

Dats how are you reading me now btw?

~ skitter

you vaguely remind me of the way you played in that cursed jk9++ game where you hydra'd with mena

i want to say your pestering about my read of ico is +town. if i were truly tinfoiling here, i'd say he's your buddy and you're chaining me to fall down after him, but i don't think that really works since in that scenario you'd know i'm town, and that i'm likely to make it very obvious that i'm not aligned with scum!ico by murdering him once he comes back

so most likely town i think

usually i'd ask what makes you townread me this game (ignoring my ico associates) when you didn't do so last game, but i have a feeling you would be good enough to make up something convincing there if i asked so /shrug

[Datisi]

Dats how are you reading me now btw?

~ skitter

you vaguely remind me of the way you played in that cursed jk9++ game where you hydra'd with mena

i want to say your pestering about my read of ico is +town. if i were truly tinfoiling here, i'd say he's your buddy and you're chaining me to fall down after him, but i don't think that really works since in that scenario you'd know i'm town, and that i'm likely to make it very obvious that i'm not aligned with scum!ico by murdering him once he comes back

so most likely town i think

usually i'd ask what makes you townread me this game (ignoring my ico associates) when you didn't do so last game, but i have a feeling you would be good enough to make up something convincing there if i asked so /shrug

[Datisi]

if i definitely declare my read on ico one way or another now, and i'm wrong, it's going to be extremely hard to correct it later.

[Datisi]

It's kind of silly to think I should be super paranoid about you forever because I lost to you once as scum. Of course the game directly after that I am going to be super on guard about my own biases. Doesnt mean that paranoia is a life long affliction or that I didn't learn from those mistakes.

of course, i wouldn't expect you to have paranoia about me in every single game we play forever. but even then, it's such a stark contrast. i'd expect you to pick up on some of my meta tells and learn from your mistakes, but i just have a feeling i'm not really seeing it being applied here?

[Datisi]

i can see it. do you think i'm a miracle worker who, just because i once managed to figure out ico's alignment within 5 hours, i'm always gonna be able to do that? hell, this kinda thing has happened before. there are a few games where i nailed scum!bugspray in under 5 pages, and then there are later games where it took me much longer to read their alignment. my read rates on people aren't always consistent.

pedit: thank you

[Datisi]

Your whole reaction to my push feels scummy. Like you're trying to belittle it and make it seem insignificant.

nah fam, if i were scum i'd have gotten into a 10-page-long discussion with you where i would be mincing your words and going in circles and try to make you look as shit as possible. like, i'm sorry but your read on me is just bad. i'm not stopping you from trying to convince others about it, but i will be pointing out what i think is bad about it.

[Datisi]

could you respond to my 644, please?

[Datisi]

i was mostly interested in the "i learned from those mistakes" part, but i might have misunderstood what you meant by it. after all, me usually getting killed as town is a thing. fine, you get to live for now.

[Datisi]

VOTE: Gamma

what made you switch your vote away from dunn?

[Datisi]

Unfortunately, I could easily see either of them being scum at this point: dats leaning on ico being absent to not have to engage as much is a tinfoil I have, and there’s just a whole lot of nothing from ico.

bingle, do you think i'm purposefully not engaging with this game? like, do you genuinely have a problem with the amount of content i've had so far?

cakez and enchant are hard town for me at the very least

why are those two hardtown? i'm townleaning cakez myself, and enchant is still a ?, but hardtown?

[Datisi]

Datisi - townie if you exclude the icky ico associatives

i am annoyed by this

i don't particularly think it makes skitter *scummy* since i struggle to see the scum!motivation behind this read, but i'm just personally annoyed, does scum!me really usually have reads on my partner be *that* sloppy?

[Datisi]

And wrt enchant: he's kinda not doing himself any favors, and isnt really trying to make himself 'seem popular' so to speak. Like he's being kinda contrary, almost on purpose, and i think he can tell how that's being perceived, and i think most scum would try to tone that down to get people off of their backs

Like he's behaving in a way that wont make people townread him, and even tho people are scumreading him, isnt changing that, when i think scum would try to modulate their behavior

i think i have seen scum!enchant acting like this before

i'd be lying if i said it's scum!indicative, though

skitt, can you convince me baltar is town?

[Datisi]

i'm not digging my dunn vote anymore but also i am not digging anything else - someone try to sell me on something please

[Datisi]

What are your thoughts about gamma and the defeatism?

i've just reread page 30 about 3 times and each time i came up with a blank.

for a newer player, i'd say the "not giving reads immediately and going into antispew is scum!indicative", but gamma doesn't strike me as a player that would just go into complete antispew there? especially as he wasn't really that close to yeet

overall, not sure i get much. i can see as either alignment being annoyed that people are following the vote -- here, i was gonna write "that he thinks is incorrect", but i don't actually notice that he's disputing a50's metaread... ok uhh

bingle, what's the "objection" of yours gamma is talking about in 649? i didn't get it originally and i was just gonna just skip over it, but now i'm interested in trying to figure this out

[Datisi]

Sorry, i'm not trying to be annoying :/

And this isnt like 'clean' partner play either, but i'm really struggling to understand why town-you isnt pushing ico more

i don't mean to say that you are annoying, like i'm just annoyed that anyone is looking at how i'm treating ico and saying we're buddies from it (in a kinda "do you really think i'm this bad" way)

skitt, can you convince me baltar is town?

I really like his earlygame, there was such clear obvtownie posting, and the way he was approachinf things was just ... great

Tbf the read is now fading a bit

What are your thoughts on penguin?

~ skitter

i also liked his early game, mostly for tonal reasons, but my tonal reads accuracy on baltar has historically been 0% and i'm not sure i see what about his approach there makes him obvtown

penguin is penguin
not a fan of the slot, but afaik there's not much use pushing him on day one since he usually just like, doesn't do much, no? so he's generally a wait and see for me

i do remember a few times in the past when i did actively (and correctly) townread him on d1 and that feeling is not present now, so make of that what you will

[Datisi]

ah, alright. so the "i think this is important" is a sort of "that is incorrect" response. i can definitely understand it as my first thought when baltar came up wit that readslist was "???" because gamma did not feel like that at all... and now i'm reminded of the metadive i told myself i was gonna do. ugh.

[Datisi]

Game is moving too fast and they can't keep with the pace.

this is what baltar originally said, and i do think this can easily be understood as "they're lurking / not keeping up with all of the content" so. yeah i don't think gamma looks that bad here at all. (and now i'm reminded just *how much* i originally disliked that case...)

and re sleepless, that's where the first part of my post plays in. even if he was close to yeet, i don't think he would default to antispew as scum - i think his reaction is not very alignment indicative here.

gonna go reread some iso's from old games because i think i won't be able to focus on my art if i don't do that now.

[Datisi]

i just reread like 200 posts from an old game's iso and i am not finding what i thought i was gonna find and i am upsetti

gonna go out for a walk then have dinner then (a) keep doing pointless iso reading (b) make art (c) actually study???? we'll see

[Datisi]

i'm potentially changing my mind on gamma again

~ skitter

if this is towards scum, can you enlighten me?

[Datisi]

why penguin?

i wanna townread gamma but every read feels more weird than the last

[Datisi]

hiiiii ico

[Datisi]

you seem very balls to the wall there. feels a bit scummy

why is that scummy?

[Datisi]

yes

[Datisi]

you seem very balls to the wall there. feels a bit scummy

why is that scummy?

[Datisi]

are you genuinely trying to tell me you don't think town!me argues with people who scumread me?

[Datisi]

i take that approach as scum

mostly because i take it as town and have to fake it as scum

soooooo

[Datisi]

ico, i'd like some shotgun reads when you catch up, aight?

[Datisi]

SirC
Bingle

explain these two?

also why am i nullish?

[Datisi]

You are literally null because i've been liking posts and yet there's this thing with the little 1v1 we had with the whole read on me thing

why? is that? scummy?

[Datisi]

you are very correct it's annoying

i am an annoying person

but i'm not letting you go free with nonsense pushes on me

[Datisi]

that's not what i'm saying and you know it

[Datisi]

i can see it. do you think i'm a miracle worker who, just because i once managed to figure out ico's alignment within 5 hours, i'm always gonna be able to do that? hell, this kinda thing has happened before. there are a few games where i nailed scum!bugspray in under 5 pages, and then there are later games where it took me much longer to read their alignment. my read rates on people aren't always consistent.

pedit: thank you

here you even admit that expecting you to be able and read me within 5 minutes of thread presence is wrong, why are you giving me crap about it then?

i'm giving you crap because your 93 and 509 feel like nonsense. it's incorrect to assume i will alwas be able to read you 5 pages in, sure. but that's not what you were arguing, you were (and pretty much are) implying i'm scummy for worrying about not having a read on you yet. but there's a certain disconnect between that and how does that imply i'm more likely scum because of it?

[Datisi]

i noticed that some of you were asking for my presence

unfortunately, it is 1:30am and i've spent the last few hours panic cramming for my test tomorrow

so i will go to bed and get to y'all lovely people tomorrow

[Datisi]

boop

[Datisi]

unfortunately, it is 1:30am and i've spent the last few hours panic cramming for my test tomorrow

this just ended and it went not terribly! (probably)

gonna go clear my head and eat dinner, expect some datisi in your area soon

[Datisi]

while i'm catching up:

baltar, if i went on the quest of voting the dragon, would you be interested in joining me?

[Datisi]

while i'm catching up:

baltar, if i went on the quest of voting the dragon, would you be interested in joining me?

Id want to hear the actual case. I'm much more interested in a Dunn or possibly SA yeet today.

if i said the case is "i think he's scum and i'm a dragon whisperer", would that be enough for you?

[Datisi]

i'm not digging my dunn vote anymore but also i am not digging anything else - someone try to sell me on something please

What exactly changed wrt to Dunn for you?

wrt dunn, not much. i did remember some of dunn's meta that i'd forgotten up until now, but this bad feeling mainly came from the wagon and the gamestate itself. i'm not great at explaining feelings here, but the way it just kinda stalled and didn't move anymore gives me a bad vibe. and it seems like there's not much point pressuring there at the moment.

i'm not sure i see what about his approach there makes him obvtown

Should I be obvtown to you by now?

should? probably not, no. but just because i don't see it doesn't mean i'm not interested in if someone else does, especially as sorting you early would save me a lot of headache this game.

also, i forgot about that question and only now realize it hasn't been answered.

@skitter?

penguin is penguin
not a fan of the slot, but afaik there's not much use pushing him on day one since he usually just like, doesn't do much, no? so he's generally a wait and see for me

Seems like he was posting notably more by the time you made this post. Why throw your hands in the air here?

er, he may have been posting more than earlier, but that doesn't mean he was like, doing something (no shade pp <3) or was readable to me. up to that point, p much all he's done is vote big wagons, argue with skitt, and kinda sorta put out a readslist. which i'm not sure i would say is a lot of content -- did you find him readable at this point?

this is what baltar originally said, and i do think this can easily be understood as "they're lurking / not keeping up with all of the content" so. yeah i don't think gamma looks that bad here at all. (and now i'm reminded just *how much* i originally disliked that case...)

While it's true one could have interpreted that original posting as being about post volume, it was very quickly clarified when I was asked. So, as far as I can tell, your interpretation here is completely wrong.

Every single person I mentioned was being reactive to the thread and not actively pursuing original inquiries or trying to move the game at that point. THIS was the point I was making. In a game with many competent players, it can take scum a minute to feel comfortable and find a path forward. Until that path is found, scum tend to be more reactive and hesitant.

You may disagree with that assertion. But to say that it makes no sense or was inaccurate of anyone on that list at the time I made that post is flat wrong from my perspective.

yeah, my interpretation in 791 is pretty wrong, considering you did explain somewhat soon after making that post.

however, i do think i would disagree with that assertion. up to that point, gamma appeared to me to be pretty engaged with the game, even moreso than what i usually expect. i just reread his iso from the beginning to the game up to that point, and it seemed to be pretty... solid? like he had a decent amount of reads and was solving. which is partly why i could understand gamma there, because the "case" on him felt pretty... i dunno, incorrect?

could you talk about what made you feel like he's coasting? because i didn't get the impression at all.

gonna go reread some iso's from old games because i think i won't be able to focus on my art if i don't do that now.

Why is so much of your play today based on meta and not what's happening in this game? I think it's a bit odd you're trying to make these very complex meta cases on D1. Like, I expect Datisi to definitely reference meta over the course of the game, but you seem to be heavily relying upon it to the point it comes across to me like you're more meta focused than game focused.

i don't know. there really isn't a much better answer than "i do what gut tells me will make me be able to solve the game most accurately", and it seems to be a decent amount of meta this game. do you think it actually makes me scummy? i know i'm odd.

(also, "this person isn't suspicious of me when town!them usually is" isn't that complex of a meta case >_>)

i take that approach as scum

mostly because i take it as town and have to fake it as scum

soooooo

I actually agree with Ico here a little bit. Some of your flexes this game have been a little weirdly strong. Could just be because I found your "meta" of me kind of silly, but you also poked at F&G for townreading you, didn't you? Seemed a bit over the top. If I'm being completely suspicious minded, it's a good tactic to pre-emptively attack people and that way if they ever turn on you, you can point back and frame it as them reacting to your earlier push.

talk about tinfoil.

yes, i did poke at skitt for townreading me, mostly because there's an actually similar pattern to you. a game where i was scum and fooled town!skitter (the pinnacle of my scumplay career tbh, might as well retire after that), a game where we were both town and she kept breathing down my neck for the entire game, and now this game where she is casually townreading me. should i not find it odd?

your theory is nice, but... isn't that applicable to like, the vast majority of all pushes that have been done in mafia, ever?

Let me put this another way, who are your townreads Datisi?

let's see... i have at some points had townpings on all of gamma, cakez, a50, sleepless assassin, f&g. also some traces of townpings on you and bingle, but nothing that i can concretely put into words just yet.

[Datisi]

Sensei teach me art of prodges.

this is comical coming from you

[Datisi]

i feel like 989 should make me feel Feelings, but it's blank

bingle, what's your take on what's happening considering your 5 lowest reads are more or less just pushing each other?

[Datisi]

what happens if i

VOTE: iconeum

[Datisi]

meh, sure, that makes enough sense. maybe it's me always being the pessimist. and i didn't say it was scummy?

[Datisi]

however, i do think i would disagree with that assertion. up to that point, gamma appeared to me to be pretty engaged with the game, even moreso than what i usually expect. i just reread his iso from the beginning to the game up to that point, and it seemed to be pretty... solid? like he had a decent amount of reads and was solving. which is partly why i could understand gamma there, because the "case" on him felt pretty... i dunno, incorrect?

This. 100% This.

Which makes it all the weirder that Gamma would focus in on the "VP was complaining the game was too fast" angle, double down that that line of questioning was important and then just kind of drop it.

the only answer left is really bad theatre /s

meh, sure, that makes enough sense. maybe it's me always being the pessimist. and i didn't say it was scummy?

I thought you did, but in regards to Ico's list. Maybe you didn't, but a lot of people did and I feel like I'm missing the lead there.

nah, i find him scummy for other reasons. i didn't think your reads are scummy, i just found it odd and wanted you to elaborate. which you did.

[Datisi]

boop

[Datisi]

this bad feeling mainly came from the wagon and the gamestate itself. i'm not great at explaining feelings here, but the way it just kinda stalled and didn't move anymore gives me a bad vibe.

I'm confused how a wagon stalling gives you a bad vibe. If anything, isn't that an indicator scum are not wanting it?

imagine asking me to explain vibes

i don't know. if i were forced to give an explanation, i'd say it almost gives a vibe of the town losing interest in a lhf player, and scum being awkward and not wanting to push it because they're aware they're gonna look bad for pushing lhf. which, i know from the outside is not easily distinguishable from "dunn is scum and scum don't wanna push him", but that's the game i guess.

er, he may have been posting more than earlier, but that doesn't mean he was like, doing something (no shade pp <3) or was readable to me. up to that point, p much all he's done is vote big wagons, argue with skitt, and kinda sorta put out a readslist. which i'm not sure i would say is a lot of content -- did you find him readable at this point?

I don't have strong feelings about Penguin, but probably more town vibes than scum vibes if I had to make a call at this very moment. Reads to me a bit like a town player who wants D1 to end so some actual analysis can happen...which I get.

okay, and if you had to make the call at the moment when you asked me that question...

like, part of what i don't get is how you're calling out gamma for not doing much, but from the pov of someone not aware of penguin's meta, it seems like penguin has done much less?

however, i do think i would disagree with that assertion. up to that point, gamma appeared to me to be pretty engaged with the game, even moreso than what i usually expect. i just reread his iso from the beginning to the game up to that point, and it seemed to be pretty... solid? like he had a decent amount of reads and was solving. which is partly why i could understand gamma there, because the "case" on him felt pretty... i dunno, incorrect?

could you talk about what made you feel like he's coasting? because i didn't get the impression at all.

Yeah, no.

Gamma spent most of that game up to that point dumping town reads with no explanation, passing banter with folks (which I don't have a problem with) and spending an inordinate amount of time talking about enchant and his town read of enchant. I don't really see solving happening there, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. It's a pretty light affair in his ISO through 480, which is where I mentioned him in my early bad vibes list.

I will say someone mentioned Gamma has some IRL shit going on, so I am taking that into consideration in reviewing my own read there.

i'm getting that from having townreads and going through older games to look at wagon dynamics. if we disagree on that being game advancing, then i guess we disagree, idk what to tell you.

i don't know. there really isn't a much better answer than "i do what gut tells me will make me be able to solve the game most accurately", and it seems to be a decent amount of meta this game. do you think it actually makes me scummy? i know i'm odd.

(also, "this person isn't suspicious of me when town!them usually is" isn't that complex of a meta case >_>)

I don't know if it's scummy, but definitely notable to me. Could just be how you're approaching this game. It could also be a contrived play that looks like busy work. Guessing the motivation behind it would be nothing more than speculation at this point, but it stuck out to me as maybe slightly different than how I've seen you play before. METAING THE METAING.

if i may countermeta the metaing of meta: scum!me loves busywork, but "reading through old games in hopes of making a case on someone that will be reliant on meta" is... not busywork for scum!me. like, it would be much easier to just make up some nonsense about the things in the thread. (i obviously understand this is gonna be taken with a huge grain of salt because self meta bad, but you get my point.)

talk about tinfoil.

yes, i did poke at skitt for townreading me, mostly because there's an actually similar pattern to you. a game where i was scum and fooled town!skitter (the pinnacle of my scumplay career tbh, might as well retire after that), a game where we were both town and she kept breathing down my neck for the entire game, and now this game where she is casually townreading me. should i not find it odd?

your theory is nice, but... isn't that applicable to like, the vast majority of all pushes that have been done in mafia, ever?

This I disagree with on a couple levels.

First, you're accusing skitter and me of doing the exact same thing...which is just weird. Like, do you think we are both scum? If no, then the thing you're doing seems like it's maybe not alignment indicative.

Second, going on the offense as scum isn't really a crazy strategy. It is more risky, but the rewards are also higher. I don't think it's applicable to all mafia pushes. I think scum play more passive or aggressive based upon each player's approach. You are absolutely someone who isn't going to play a passive game if you draw scum, so it doesn't seem crazy to me at all.

yes, i am accusing you of doing the same thing, because you two did the same thing. i don't think it's impossible, but no, i don't currently think you two are scum together. but i'm not sure where you're getting the... "either a tell is 100% accurate in all cases, or it's not alignment indicative". like, you yourself have once called out scum!me for not showing paranoia around you, so i reckon you don't think the tell is complete nonsense. it doesn't make you or skitter lockscum sure, but it's a piece of the puzzle. why such a black-and-white view on tells?

i'm not saying that going on the offense as scum is a crazy strategy, hell it's been my main strategy as scum for a while now. my actual issue with that is that you're taking two of my pushes and coming up with this galaxy brain strategy reason for scum!me to perform those pushes. but i don't exactly see the connection, like i don't see why "you're pre-epmtively scumreading these people so that you can accuse them of omgus if they start scumreading you" can't be applied to *any* push that i made this game, and why it's apparently tied only to my "why are you townreading me easily" pushes.

townpings on all of gamma, cakez, a50, sleepless assassin, f&g.

Very confused on the SA town read. What do you think of his voting record?

it was a vibe a bit back that i kinda forgot about, let me go through the iso again to see what was i thinking

okay, i liked his og vote on ico and the explanation behind it, and 616 pinged me as genuinely trying to solve the game, maybe because of the "are you an overthinker" question, made it feel like there's some gears turning behind the scenes

that said, the vote on gamma is a bit, uh. i'm not sure if i wanna say scummy, because in my experience (most) scum usually doesn't jump on the wagon to hope to push it through like that that relatively early in the game, but it definitely makes it worth to keep an eye on that slot for a bit.

[Datisi]

i find him scummy for other reasons.

go on

not sure how much i want to go on, considering i'm still holding out some hope ico actually talks to me, and i think there's value in that conversation being untainted regardless of his own actual alignment. (also i'm slightly short on time tonight so uh yeah.) you can probably see my main issues if you read the convos he and i have been having?

skitt, can you convince me baltar is town?

I really like his earlygame, there was such clear obvtownie posting, and the way he was approachinf things was just ... great

i also liked his early game, mostly for tonal reasons, but my tonal reads accuracy on baltar has historically been 0% and i'm not sure i see what about his approach there makes him obvtown

@skitt, i guess i should've properly framed this as a question, basically to elaborate on that claim

and, besides the ico stuff, you're townreading my thought process and activity and all that stuff without really questioning me much on it, which i found weird.

[Datisi]

guess who just finished with a paper that's due tomorrow and that i only started a few hours ago because i'm a fucking idiot?

i just reread like 200 posts from an old game's iso and i am not finding what i thought i was gonna find and i am upsetti

gonna go out for a walk then have dinner then (a) keep doing pointless iso reading (b) make art (c) actually study???? we'll see

what did you want?
honestly I find this so weird - like you were digging for something to use for your PoV and it didn't work which is something I associate with scum

lol -- cakez, when did you decide you were gonna see every single thing i say as scummy? like, how the hell do you come to this conclusion. "you had a hypothesis, you went to look for evidence to support that hypothesis, you did not find said evidence... scum."

to answer your question, i wanted to see whether i was right on 483 and 489 being tonally scum-indicative. because i thought i had seen him use that tone before, but i couldn't remember it being *that* vile (threatening? idk words difficult) when he was town. so i read through a part of vp's iso from 2157, found 2-3 posts that were tonally similarish enough, but not quite. and since that is the only scumgame of vp's that i'd played in, and i didn't find it there, that then means that i'd probably seen it in a towngame. but verifying that would take even more time, which i haven't done because i'm not sure i currently care enough to do it. but yes i was obviously disappointed that i didn't find the evidence to support my theory. i dislike beign wrong. why is that scummy.

I think Ico's page 36 is really town

i'mma need this properly explained.

it seems like penguin has done much less?

so has Not_Mafia, but we all know that's a lost cause. I can't remember playing with Penguin before, and I'm gathering from others that this is his D1 style. Am I interpreting that wrong?

i mean yes, but we both know n_m is n_m. and i was guessing you didn't have experience with penguin's meta. which is what i'm talking about, if at the time you didn't know he just ~acts like this~, why didn't you put him into that group? (here i'd have to go back to check whether anyone mentioned his meta by that point, but am lazy)

so I can see that as an effective EFFORT strategy as scum.

thank you -- not saying i wouldn't do it as scum, just saying it's not on the top of the "ez things to do to score them townpoints" list for scum!me.

Just trying to think through your thought process in making the same accusation twice. What I'm saying is that it's either a solid accusation or not in your mind. It seems like perhaps it is less "AH HA!" than you made it out to be originally (which is fine, I get a little hyperbole when you're attacking someone to apply pressure.)

my thought process is so fucking solid that i didn't even realize that it was the same accusation until you pointed it out. but my thoughts still stand, someone who is generally paranoid of me suddenly not showing paranoia of me is suspicious. it can come from town, sure, but it's a starting point. i never meant that someone is lockscum for it. (also something something i am somewhat decent at making reads based on how people are reading me so i like to do that also self meta bad etc.)

i hate a lot of what cakez is saying but it still doesn't strike me as scummy

ok, off to get 4 and a half hours of sleep, see ya

[Datisi]

also, replacing Iconeum

my disappointment is immesureable and my day is ruined.

[Datisi]

fuck if i know. now that he's gone, i can go over the stuff that was bothering me about him, since i can't ask the replacement to answer for them anyway. you still interested in hearing that, or...?

UNVOTE: iconeum (still feel like voting there for now, but let's give the rep a bit of space and make sure there's no accidental yeets yet)

[Datisi]

noted. currently doing Other Things, will get to that a bit later on.

how sure are you on dunn being scum?

[Datisi]

things that have pinged me wrong about iconeum the dragon:

- the "i have zero scumpings so far" in 61. it's not unreasonable to not have scumpings, but something about purposefully calling it out made it seem a bit forced - like he thinks town!him *would* be having scumpings by that point so he wants to cover his ass there.

- i think i already talked about it, but the "why are you worried about not having a read on me yet" (93, 509). like, it reminded me of scum!ico who sometimes has the habit of pre-emptively building a push on me, but the issue is if he builds it too early.

- shading vp in 513 but then voting dunn in 519 is kinda ???. now, i don't think it's scummy in of itself, but further through his iso, i'm not sure i get the vibe of him actually trying to sort through dunn/vp.

- also, the way he seemed very certain on dunn being a solid yeet for today just feels... agh, icky. i'm not sure if i'm making things up here, but something about being read to *yeet* dunn already feels kind of off, at least based on the way he presented it.

- this is maybe more within tinfoil territory, but 909 and 928 feel kind of contradictory to one another. specifically the parts where he first says that he's been liking my posts, and then there's the 1v1 we'd been having, and then that i should know i haven't done enough for him to townread me. but, i thnk the "i've been liking your posts" implies that there is material for him to townread me, except that material is "tainted" by the 1v1. to then turn it into "you haven't done enough" feels ???, like he realized he has to defend the weird null read on me so he's turning it into that. and the "if you're honest with yourself, you should know" just feels manipulative. :/

[Datisi]

bingle, am i correct in getting the feeling that you're not playing as hard as you did in that mystery box of silver potion clusterfuck game?

[Datisi]

i mean yes, but we both know n_m is n_m. and i was guessing you didn't have experience with penguin's meta. which is what i'm talking about, if at the time you didn't know he just ~acts like this~, why didn't you put him into that group? (here i'd have to go back to check whether anyone mentioned his meta by that point, but am lazy)

@vp, i believe this wasn't answered

[Datisi]

I'm interested in hearing from you if you think his play differs here from when he was scum with you on D1. Just feel like I've tried to give him opportunities to engage with me in a real way, and he's trying to end those as fast as possible to return to lurking. It's major bad vibes for me.

okay, so i skimmed through his iso here and the beginnings of it in 2195, and uhhh. like, if i had to guess, i would say that the posting *is* different, since on reread he gave me a vibe there of somewhat trying to please others there (most notably this post felt a bit fluffed up) while his posts here give more of a vibe of not giving a fuck, but... i'd be lying if i said i feel this with any kind of certainty.

i do have some knowledge of dunn's meta, and i know he has a few games where he's a useless lurksack as town early. which is why i don't feel too comfortable instantly scumbinning this behaviour. i don't have *enough* meta though to know whether he's more likely to be town or scum because of it. so i guess the conclusion is "lol idk i might be fine voting there if nothing else interesting comes up".

[Datisi]

also, a50, you should stop townreading people for townreading you when you think you're acting like lhf.

[Datisi]

@sleepless, could i get you to explain your current view of this game? doesn't have to be long. a lot of your posts feel kinda, idk, i feel like my eyes are glazing over a lot of them.

[Datisi]

I just don't believe D'Arby comes in and the first thing he does is to copy that strategy. It doesn't make sense for a sub-in scum who is on the chop.

i'm not sure i see why that is supposed to be such an unlikely strategy?

[Datisi]

have y'all caught scum yet?

[Datisi]

have y'all caught scum yet?

Still comfortable on the gamma train, but I’m pretty sure that something smart guy is informed if you want to check out his iso.

it seems like his iso is full of tracking votes with no analysis, making random non-game related comments, and making unfulfilled promises about future content. you're right, guy probably is scum.

[Datisi]

how the fuck am i the same rank as n_m, dunn, ico slot, and sleepless?

[Datisi]

typing the following:

Code: Select all

i am talking about post [post]666[/post]

results in:
i am talking about post 666

[Datisi]

okay, i just finished a thing i was hyperfocusing for the past 5 days

who is around to talk with me while i read this game

[Datisi]

i don't know why, but darby's 1188 and 1190 give me a scummy vibe, in a sorta cognitive load way? what i mean is, the answers to those questions seem relatively easy to figure out if you read the post that skitter is literally quoting there. and the fact that he's *still* asking for clarification there strikes me as if he didn't quite get it because way too many other things are on his mind (i.e. he be informed)

someone let me know if i am getting too biased here, but those two just pinged me as Wrong

also, i just thought of something

@skitter,

i believe all of the reads your slot has given on me have been from you? did pooky say anything abt how he's reading me? if not, could you ask/summon him pls?

Like a reads list or more events oriented kind of thing?

something focused in other players' alignments, but it doesn't have to be a traditional readslist. (this request may get rescinded depending on what i read in the next few pages.)

re bingle's 1196: right, thanks. it's just that i feel like i got a townread on you there very early on, compared to here i didn't. maybe it's those three effort cases you posted early game there.

[Datisi]

page 49 - i kind of get bad vibes from baltar being like "why can't you just explain your scumread, just do some bullet points bro" because it feels kinda like taking advantage of someone being stubborn and harping at lowkey nai things? but i'm not sure if it's actually nai? i cannot really disagree with anything he's saying

i think i have started to townread vp somewhere in the meantime, except for his tone which i still hate but what else is new

i wish iv was in this game

[Datisi]

You already know that I feel after he disappeared he avoided me after I voted him and tried to get people to join me.

oh yeah this was something i found townie

hmm

[Datisi]

Because it isn't a real read. If you have a real read on someone, you don't need a bunch of time to articulate it. If you have a real read, you KNOW why you suspect someone. If you're scum and faking a read, you don't have that natural recall because you're making it up. You don't believe what you're saying in the game, and you're worried that if you shoot from the hip, you might have said something contradictory before.

this is a post that exists i guess

i'm now thinking of this one event that happened in a different game where vp reacted differently as town but (1) it would take way too much brainpower to figure out if the two cases are actually comparable, which i don't have right now (2) i have already gotten yelled at this game for using meta too much

so i'm noting this on my "if i suddenly get an urge to *really* tryhard this game"

also, sidenote: i find it interesting how both baltar and sleepless are accusing ico of being scum with the other. i don't know what that *means* exactly, but it's something.

[Datisi]

baltar/sleepless/iconeum scumteam

where do i pick up my paragon scummy

[Datisi]

i am kind of annoyed that baltar asked me to actually spend 10 minutes of my time going through ico's iso and writing out a case to then have The Nerve to ignore it

[Datisi]

have y'all caught scum yet?

Who do u want to vote rn?

Also maybe we should think abt consolidating

~ skitter

at this point in time - i do Not want to vote myself, baltar, you, pp, a50 (should i be getting worried about his shitposting?), bingle (kinda good vibes but don't quote me on that), and sleepless (kinda sorta, mulling vp's case over, and wanna see what he comes back with)

i noticed cakez has been kinda doing Less as the time is passing by and i'm not sure i'm a fan

all of n_m / dunn / enchant are voteable if we need a yeet, + enchant is doing even less recently than before so i'm even more tempted to just get that out of the way early

and then darby and gamma, still not impressed with the first one and gamma has fallen off a bit in the recent times

will finish reading, look at a few isos, then figure out where to vote

[Datisi]

ok there wasn't that much until the end

my sleepless read feels like a mess

my reads in general feel way too weak right now, and that makes me think they're probably decently incorrect

[Datisi]

VOTE: sircakez

[Datisi]

i appreciate that, but that's probably the post i least wanted responses on

[Datisi]

VOTE: sircakez

I haven't seen you say anything remotely redeemable about DArby....so why are you wanting to change trajectory entirely?

to add to the meme: i think darby and cakez have scum!equity together

now seriously, you have correctly observed that i do not townread darby. because i don't. but while darby's slot has been getting *plenty* of attention today, and i reckon drumming up that wagon again wouldn't be too difficult, cakez has gotten none and i'm not sure how i feel about it. so i wanna try to sort him a bit first before deciding where i want to move on for the day

[Datisi]

also unironically cakez's townread of ico was questionable at best so here we go

[Datisi]

hmm

skitt, do you operate on the basis of acting weird = acting scummy? because that's the feeling i'm getting on how you're handling my slot

pedit: ah yeah, i see my partner is the leading wagon
so i start a push on the person the entire game is either townreading or nullreading
and that push is based on nothing
fuck, you got me

[Datisi]

i was pushing ico by getting him to answer my questions, he was not here and then he repped out

anything that i post towards darby is not gonna be very useful because they're not here and haven't read the game so what do i even push him on

[Datisi]

like if your point is gonna be "you weren't voting ico for a lot of it" yeah that was intentional. because it's very possible if i voted him early he would've seen i'm onto him and just went into antispew mode if he's scum.

[Datisi]

oh thank fuck

[Datisi]

did he? i just remember the post saying something about not reading the last ten pages, but checking back i see that i misremembered. in that case, scratch that part i guess. i was also kinda assuming he'd make some sorta "i am caught up, here are my summarized reads and view of gamestate"

my point about him not really being here and showing us much still stands imo

[Datisi]

I've never played a game with a mod I loved more

i was automatically gonna make an annoyed response at this, but then i realized you have in fact never played in my games

[Datisi]

it's kinda difficult to have questions for an almost empty slot besides the "what are your collective reads and why", which is something i'm expecting he's gonna present anyway (though maybe i shouldn't be assuming that?)

don't have anything further than that until i see more

[Datisi]

i don't get why you're vanity-voting cakez *now* when you're scumreading ico, the slot is the leading wagon and i'm p confident that we're not ending on cakez today
like the part htat's looking aligned to me is that you have a lot of *words* saying you're suspicious of ico/darby but aren't *doing* much abt it

because my brain doesn't work like "i scumread person, there is wagon on them, let's yeet them"

i currently think ico is scum, sure. *but* i'm not extremely confident in that read, and there are a lot of slots that i have a very weak read on. which makes it difficult for me to build a good mental image of this game as a whole. and if we just went and yeeted the slot immediately, it wouldn't provide good foundation for me for later days, regardless of the colour of the flip. so i want to get reads elsewhere.

i don't have much to offer you on why this isn't how i play around my partners other than self meta of never having played around my partners ever. i know how it looks to be scumreading one person but voting elsewhere. and i know that cakez is again, much higher in the collective reads than ico, and that i currently don't have that much towncred to push things with. especially not with a push that's a naked vote + "lol idk i just want other reads ahaha".

like, i'm not too interested in arguing this with you because i know you're just gonna see my behaviour as aligned despite this being the polar opposite of my scumplay and having already screwed up on whether i was aligned/disaligned with ico in jk9++. you should probably be more worried if i'm scum trying to softdefend town!ico and making us seem aligned so that nobody takes me seriously.

[Datisi]

can someone explain to me why enchant is town? but like, in simple terms that aren't "tstbs".

[Datisi]

can't really say i scumread them for something since they haven't done anything

it's more like an absence of anything completely townie for me

[Datisi]

can u tell skitt to stop bullying me

[Datisi]

But shouldn’t that be a d2+ thing? This logic seems weird.

do you just try to yeet the first scumread you get and don't bother trying to solve anyone else?

[Datisi]

i *know* my vote on cakez is unlikely to create a wagon. that's not the point.

[Datisi]

1374 is a post that exists.

[Datisi]

i am expecting to hopefully get a better read on cakez?

[Datisi]

imagine asking a hydra to actually sync up their reads

[Datisi]

I’d support a DArby lim but I also feel like Dunn has been flying UtR for a bit

are you aware that dunn is getting replaced

[Datisi]

imagine asking a hydra to actually sync up their reads

~ skitter

Mommy and daddy should never fight in front of the children.

there is a joke here about mommy and daddy picking favorites between their children but i'm not quite witty enough to make it

also hi i am drinking does anyone wanna fight about something

[Datisi]

hydras are lazy mf'ers who exist solely to troll the game and they never bother to sync up their own reads at all (coming from someone who does hydra every now and then) so no i am not

[Datisi]

we can always

yeet the fuck out of them

[Datisi]

ok ok ok baltar now that you are here i need your professional opinion on something

so i saw this post:

To answer Penguin’s question earlier, I do have a read on [datisi] now: town. You’re absolutely tunneling me but I think it comes more from not knowing how I play vs actively taking my questions in bad faith.

this post struck me as kinda townie. maybe i'm wrong on that beign townie bc trying to placate your pushers is a thing sometimes but this tone and timing just seemed *too* placate-y it circled around into town

however, this post:

But shouldn’t that be a d2+ thing? This logic seems weird.

seemed to be hedgy shady bullshit and i don't like it

discuss

[Datisi]

boop

[Datisi]

baltar

do you think i should be townreading you by now

[Datisi]

bingle, have you gone over my ico case yet and what is your opinion on that slot at this point in time

[Datisi]

dats you look more and more aligned with ico/darby >.>

~ skitter

:/

i think i am Interested in knowing what that post called for a :/

[Datisi]

Where is Ico showing he's very certain on Dunn? I more got the impression he was disengaged and didn't have strong reads from his posting.

Overall, I think most of this case is adequately explained by Ico just not being around, but the angle of Ico coming after you too early out of fear is one I should look at.

the overall lack of solving almost everyone else but still pushing for the dunn wagon - like sure maybe he didn't say he's certain on dunn but that's the overall impression i believe his play was giving due to not much sorting of other people or considering other possible yeet targets

and i believe i had experienced scum!ico trying to fake the sorting/paranoia we usually have between each other and building a case on me too early, so, that wasn't really pulled out nowhere

[Datisi]

I dunno, I kind of attribute the not sorting other people to a general lack of engagement over all. I might be being too generous with how much of that was RL though.

i think you're missing my point

not sorting other people = can be explained by irl so nai

not sorting other people AND having decent confidence in wanting to yeet dunn = concerning

like either he didn't have time to sort properly so he shouldn't have a confident yeet target in mind, or he had time to solve properly to have a yeet target in mind, when then evidence of that sorting would be visible. it can't be both.

[Datisi]

for the record, i am also starting to feel like gamma's posts don't have too much solvey substance in them.

[Datisi]

cakez, pp, and a50 are gone

dunn and n_m still haven't been replaced

someone alert me when something happens

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DArby

Feel like this is going to be the most informative yeet and I'm bored with this day.

why do you wanna push this through before we get replacements / quiet people weigh in?

[Datisi]

VOTE: dunn

[Datisi]

why

this game isnt mountainous duh

why is pooky posting from main