Mini Normal 2249 | The Fish in the Sea | Game Over

[geraintm]

Oh, my! It's been six years already?

6 you say?

[geraintm]

VOTE: gamma

Until proven otherwise I will be assuming Free Spirit is a Koba alt

[geraintm]

I think I have learnt to take all day 1 claims is to ignore them all. Gets me in trouble.

[geraintm]

well actually just Geraint
idk Holiday yet

i have no idea what this means

[geraintm]

how confident are you in those reads?

0%

[geraintm]

Well, hi.
I’m Norwee

who were you??
this does not help with me not being totally confused day 1

[geraintm]

-

Is this not just a ranking of how well-known people are

i dont think so, as i was second. give them some credit for their nonsense reads

[geraintm]

well actually just Geraint
idk Holiday yet

i have no idea what this means

I meant to say that i think your slot is fine but idk about Holiday yet.

i think i had 3 posts at this point, would be hard to find something scummy in htere

[geraintm]

Well, hi.
I’m Norwee

who were you??
this does not help with me not being totally confused day 1

-.-

sorry, i thought that you were going to ditch the alt account and i should maybe pay attention to the switch, but now i dont

[geraintm]

I think I have learnt to take all day 1 claims is to ignore them all. Gets me in trouble.

is this a compulsive weak vig crumb?

open setup spec
this is probably nai

I was referencing my last game where I believed a day one claim and then got laughed out of town and scum read for it

[geraintm]

As of right now i'm TL-ing: Azaariah, Geraintm, Gamma, Jeff, Osuka.

vote andante. lets see some pressure

Naughty poijt for you

[geraintm]

Geraint just reads to me like an exact clone of their towngames, and they don’t seem like the type that would be good at copying it as scum.
So it’s an tone/meta thing.

i'm p sure scum gera is like this too.

I can't remember the last time I was scum. I think I am obvious when I am as I panic non stop

[geraintm]

so you think that if i posted a reads list and someone asked me a specific question about it, some newly replaced in person saying "it'd be really scummy if Azaariah replies [this]" isn't strange?

Well, it would be strange, but not for that reason. It wouldn't be any less strange if someone who'd already interacted with you a bunch said it.

I kind of understand their Andante push. Andante commented after and added like 4 things that I didn't say, and then shaded. It was like they were trying to create shade to throw onto me out of nothing, and then they layered and started to comment on the layers.

If you look into the posts, I really didn't do anything, and Andante pushed it like I was doing something unfathomable.

It's day 1, I don't ever understand any push

[geraintm]

Geraint just reads to me like an exact clone of their towngames, and they don’t seem like the type that would be good at copying it as scum.
So it’s an tone/meta thing.

i'm p sure scum gera is like this too.

I can't remember the last time I was scum. I think I am obvious when I am as I panic non stop

Oh right you were town in deco?

I was last surviving townie

[geraintm]

But why

Are you serious? I just told you that a moment ago.....

[geraintm]

But why

Are you serious? I just told you that a moment ago.....

I wasn't talking to you ???

Zoolander....

[geraintm]

Sorry, that's a famous scene in it where someone asks "why male models" and that was the response. It amused me to reply here, sorry for confusion

[geraintm]

UNVOTE: something_smart

i just did a little read through of something_smart's last scum game. it's a very different' feel from here so they're probably town even though i dont agree with most everything they say.

you know that people try and change their play style right? thats a thing?

[geraintm]

can i first say i hate how many people are already tieing someone's alignment to others.

well, to be honest, i dont totally believe some of the points i've said mostly

naughty point for you.

[geraintm]

so you think that if i posted a reads list and someone asked me a specific question about it, some newly replaced in person saying "it'd be really scummy if Azaariah replies [this]" isn't strange?

Well, it would be strange, but not for that reason. It wouldn't be any less strange if someone who'd already interacted with you a bunch said it.

I kind of understand their Andante push. Andante commented after and added like 4 things that I didn't say, and then shaded. It was like they were trying to create shade to throw onto me out of nothing, and then they layered and started to comment on the layers.

If you look into the posts, I really didn't do anything, and Andante pushed it like I was doing something unfathomable.

It's day 1, I don't ever understand any push

How about
now

I just KNOW that there are some CHOICE ones that you can pick out bro

nope, day 1 is a total null to me. i never get any successful reads on anyone, and i have no idea how nayone else does. like, a quarter of reads will be correct and people self-select those memories when they claim "oh, i'm frickin awesome on day 1".

i had one game on here where Day 1 all i did was vote the longest wagon at every point and no one commented or said i was being weird, that is how full of crap Day 1 is.

[geraintm]

Didn't expect to come back, tbh, but I was able to catch an NFT rug pull before it happened, and I found myself getting in the mood to catch some scum.

i have zero idea what this means.

[geraintm]

idk, like an actual push on someone for a legit reason...

What makes a reason legit?

its day 1, there ar eno legit reasons

[geraintm]

i thought coming back to the thread just before bed with like...5 pages of content there would be more for me to be snarky at. but i just cant be bothered, too much shouting

[geraintm]

what if andante is just another wiki?

oh no......

[geraintm]

Imo using partner interactions between unflipped players is... ambitious.

I like this ^^^

[geraintm]

Ok, not gonna lie, I was going down the list for "who has posted the most" and landed on Jeff. The more I think about it, the more I can't get it out of my head, then looking at the ISO, Jeff + Aza is looking real plausible.

just stop this people. you ar elike...25% to be right about anyone today, so linking to someone else....just dont!

[geraintm]

6 days, 20 hours, 45 minutes for people to do stuff. Fun

More like 6 days for Scum to wagon Town and get claims, and 20h 45m for Town to rush a deadline mislin

why dont we just....not?

[geraintm]

Looks like Geraint has found themself a snark buddy

there are literally....2 of us!

[geraintm]

Wait y'all

I just realized

When people were townreading me why did no one mention I'm Miller

Seriously it was in my first post. Are y'all reading or just posting?

because i've been heavily training to ignore all day 1 claims!

[geraintm]

idk, like an actual push on someone for a legit reason...

What makes a reason legit?

its day 1, there ar eno legit reasons

dude are you like the day 1 equivalent of a nihilist? "nothing's legit, everyone's just making shit up anyways who cares"

have you not met me before?

[geraintm]

me? im good. i'm just bored and want to get to day 2

[geraintm]

you seem kinda mad tbh

no, not at all.

If we’re going to be real i think Geraint is just using "day 1 imposs anyways lol" as an way to mask that his early reads are bad.
Because there literally is a ton of evidence that you can have good reads even without a single in-game flip.

i cannot have good reads day 1. being honest, i don't often have good reads any other days but i do try then - i often get fixated though to the detriment of town. but day 2 i get better and put in effort to back up my logic - which i hope at least lets everyone else in the game read me properly. even if i am playing badly i owe it to everyone else to play to the best of my ability.
i think last game i had 2 i wanted to go after on day 2 and 1 turned out to be scum so that isn't a bad hit rate, i was pleased with that (and spotting all the eliminations were going to be wrong)

[geraintm]

Also the problem with D1 nihilism is that if everyone buys into it and just treats D1 like it's pointless and random then D2 becomes another D1.

nah, town will have some info from the first night to play 1.
and being a solo nihilist means i do get to look at what everyone else does.

ok. i want t3 at the moment.

naughty point for you. your first push has failed and you are off onto the next one...

Why do I feel like we're playing a game of chess with both sides adopting a defensive approach and waiting for the other one to make the first move?

i think it is the lack of vote counts. only 3 so far means the game feels slow. when they get posted the top of every page a game gets a different vibe to it
{note, this isn't me saying anything bad about how often Mod is posting them}

[geraintm]

Also, someone who's been on the site 15 years thinking a D1 miller claim isn't serious is frankly ridiculous.

you are really giving me way more credit than i am due. i am fairly sure there are others around here who can vouch for my cluelessness in games

[geraintm]

reduced activity 2day

as i said, it feels like no vote counts means the game has no drive forward

[geraintm]

My introduction to Something_Smart was in a scum chat before I show up Because a game just started

Something_Smart “i think I’m gonna claim Miller”

I check page 1 of the game, he claimed Miller.

I end up fake claiming cop some 10 pages later.

We won with all 3 scum left alive that game.

Good introduction.

well, this is something. you are saying they have form...
doesn't matter, it is clear that the slot will get solved sooner or later by someone

[geraintm]

Should i vote Jeff, April?

naughty point. don't like people asking others permission to vote, takes the responsibility off themselves

[geraintm]

im having some login issues but it sounded like no shade and i also never understood why holiday and a50 were higher than me in your reads. you made so many posts calling me town and included reasons yet im not higher than holiday and a50 who you havent made any significant posts on?? to be honest i also think holiday is the towniest but still

what is this?

[geraintm]

Checking, i've given naughty points to

Azaariah, three times
NorwegianboyEE

oh wow. i didnt realise i had done that. i just went to my ISO and searched for naughty and it said 4 so i was expecting it to be 4 different people. and then the second one was also Aza. and then the third.

VOTE: Aza

[geraintm]

i love that they have used a near year old account with no posts before, made on Boxing Day, to post.

[geraintm]

Should i vote Jeff, April?

naughty point. don't like people asking others permission to vote, takes the responsibility off themselves

I didn’t ask for permission though. I’m not basing my life on what April thinks, but i wanted to germt a better understanding of their stance on Jeff. So i could read both slots better.

splitting hairs.
asking permission is pretty much the same as asking someone else if you should vote for someone. if april says yes, you going to follow through?
same end result, asking permission/should i vote puts the onus on someone else for your vote and absolves you of the consequences. and i will always dislike that.

[geraintm]

You seem to be actually trying though and that’s a nice change of pace.

i always snark through day 1. i was just surprised that 75% of my snark was aimed at one person

[geraintm]

1st - are we missing a player? Free spirit hasnt posted in 4 days

2nd - i dont know who paula is

i also......... Dont like your treatment of T3 but thats something ill EXPAND on later.
cool things happen later

3rd ^^^ i dont know who this is referrring to

You're basically an constant surveillance camera that responds to stimuli, but has no purpose.

Which is an typical scum playstyle.

i feel this describes my day 1 play every game.

I see a lot of votes for Azaariah but the push is so weak. Like nobody actually cares.
Do the slots voting Azaariah actually scumread them?

i was surprised how often they had been pinging me day 1 for suspicious behaviors (i normally use points like that as just public notes of people i find suspicious so day 2 i have something to look at, but when 75% of them was all one person!), so i voted.

i've been reading but have had a very empty head for quite some time now. i don't know what to make of my wagon or the game after thinking andante was definitely scum for such a long time. i originally thought that andante and april were scum together. i kept saying that andante scum cleared april because i really wanted to see people's reactions to that and to see if i could get scum to bus andante in return for a hard townread on april who seems like a strong player (everyone seems to know them for some reason?). obviously, i can't prove that but you can really see the difference in passion between that read which i repeated in two really thin posts as compared to my andante read. i was really deep in that tunnel and now that i dont think it's correct, i don't know what to think about the game. im afraid to commit to any reads because my brain knows andante isn't scum but im still clinging on to that thought.

i keep wanting to just reply to osuka's long post the way he's been replying to my posts out of frustration but i know it doesn't help. there is no case on me and i don't know what to do about that. i don't know what im doing and this is kind of where i am. i guess this will sound like im lost but im not. im just processing and waiting.

when i read posts like this i want to say things like "How about a nice game of tic-tac-toe? because the level of thought people put into this is so way above mine.
if people expect me to play/get this sort of thing, then you really need to not.

[geraintm]

Geranit what are ur reads

Day 1 sucks.
I have no clue about anyone. I have voted for someone but they are like +25% over average to be scum. This is because in thr past when I have tried to use "naughty poibts" to try and find scummy players by the end of thr game I was usually 100% wrong - I have very little confidence in my day 1 reads (hence my normal day 1 sucks mantra)
A few players are spamming the thread and doesn't help me at all get a feel for the game (if I come back overnight to six pages of YouTube videos, hard to find anything worth paying attention to).
Game is drifting badly, I would have expected there to be a few more sharp exchanges between people but no one seems bothered.

I feel like I am being given a pass even more than normal, usually someone tries to get something going on me day 1 before they get told "this is just how geraint plays" and I get left alone until later. Dunno why?

I am also getting even less interactions with others....this message is the first time I can remember in days someone has reacted to me. I feel a little lonely to be honest....why I have written so much now in reply to you

[geraintm]

waow
ngl you trying to pursue why free spirit hadn’t posted is probtown bcuz scum imo tend to be more aware of stuff like, idk, people switching to their mains?

whelp - don't i feel an idiot. scratch that - i just

am

an idiot
at this point i really, really want to go back and edit my post before too many people wake up and see it

[geraintm]

You can’t edit posts in mafia games lol

I know...why I said I wish I could rather than my idiocy stay up for all to see

[geraintm]

Geraint is like that lost kid in the checkout aisle while A50 is the shifty cigarette smoking agent leaning towards the wall with his trench coat.

i'll take this as a compliment

I think we need some pressure going Jeff's way tbh

naughty point.

in response to April's long post

Dwlee - i actually didn't like their "did anyone notice post". i thought it was something they should have left for later. but then again i am 99% sure i've never been a miller and no idea how it should be played.

i don't get how Something Smart and Norwegian get put so far apart when the basic read (i like what they say/nothing they say isn't true) is so similar <- this feels weird and just wanted to make a note of it if/when we learn April's alignment.

agree about holiday.

[geraintm]

well maybe i do scum read t3. but i feel that way with just about everyone considering me as a possibility today. it's annoying that there are no actual reasons to be pushing me.
geraint says "one naughty point for you for jumping from one failed wagon to another" which is ??? given my aggressive pushes, you really think i would've just given up or you think im afraid to be 1v1ing? the aggressive pushes just dont come from scum but even if they did, they mean i am playing the risky game. then why would i hold back? andante is still a very real mislim option and i had built up a lot on them. even more, i decide to post a huge post about why andante needs to die even as town right before a 180 shift to a townread and a completely retracted push? make that make sense.

I am afraid i am going to have to respond to this from Aza. The reason for my vote wasn't "a naughty point for switching wagons".
It was "So far this game i have given 4 naughty points, and 3 were to Aza, and a 75% rate going to one person feels noteworthy.
the 3 times were not all for switching wagons. One was a naked vote just to generate pressure with no explanation.
one was for admitting you don't believe in the things you are saying - which makes you impossible to read and is awful
3rd was for the quick switch of wagons when your big initial push was stalling.

you keep on saying "Geraint is voting me because i moved wagons" is not correct and has annoyed me enough to explain to you. and i can't work out if you are deliberately focussing on one part so you can try and refute it, or if you just weren't aware of all the times i've noted things about you that have caught my interest.

As of right now i'm TL-ing: Azaariah, Geraintm, Gamma, Jeff, Osuka.

vote andante. lets see some pressure

Naughty poijt for you

can i first say i hate how many people are already tieing someone's alignment to others.

well, to be honest, i dont totally believe some of the points i've said mostly

naughty point for you.

ok. i want t3 at the moment.

naughty point for you. your first push has failed and you are off onto the next one...

[geraintm]

If I didn't bring it up a cop may have checked me

makes sense. as i said i have zero experience with the role.

either way, i dont scum read t3. i am **okay** with it.

you make it really easy to keep a vote on you

I don’t wanna vote in my townblock rn
Currently that’s (April, HJ, Holiday*, Norwee)
Anything else I’ll vote if I have to pretty much

*ngl I haven’t seen much of this person recently so maybe I should review this read

i have no idea how people have town blocks just from posting. i can sometimes get read on people in day 2 that i thing are strongly likely to be town (wiki last game) but that is through a combination of votes and talking. but to have huge groups of people...baffles me/

Something_Smart, Hella Jeff, NorwegianboyEE
Almost50, Gamma Emerald, Andante, Dwlee99
April Ludgate, osuka, Azaariah, T3, geraintm

I opened up a notepad and put everyone's names into it and tiered them by feeling/vague memory of the game which... this list feels pretty poor, but I can't place why. I feel good about the top three being town, but the rest is "okay but null." or "not okay but nullish still". It doesn't feel like there's anyone obvious right now.

Part of it is putting both Azaariah and T3 into a tier together? I don't think they're S/S so there's one discrepancy. I don't think that it conveys maybe how unsure I am about people as well as I want but trying to sort with more tiers felt like a futile task.

i have zero idea how i can be top scum. im never anyone's top scum. policy eliminations day 1 year, but no one actually ever thinks im scum

[geraintm]

People are always so quick to judge other people's reads, but especially Day 1, I don't believe anyone should think their reads are better than others. It is scum's job to manipulate the townies, and a lot of this happens indirectly.

Posting on phone.
I will judge everyone's reads day 1.
And I strongly think mine are worse than average

[geraintm]

People are always so quick to judge other people's reads, but especially Day 1, I don't believe anyone should think their reads are better than others. It is scum's job to manipulate the townies, and a lot of this happens indirectly.

It's funny how there's a t3 wagon now that I don't think he is scum anymore

Scum pushing a wagon, get others on it and then slide off gracefully?

[geraintm]

Only an hour? Could have gone at least.....16minutes longer couldn't you?

[geraintm]

Woke up this morning to a couple of pages I have no interest in reading properly after skimming them

[geraintm]

I am a 3-shot bodyguard. In my first few posts I referred to myself in the third person three times, and then talked about blundering my queen in chess. In that game, my queen was pinned to my king (my queen dying so my king could be saved).

trying to catch up on a sunday night. will see how far i get
had to look up this role. i don't think i buy this, but reading ahead everyone gives it a pass so you must all know better than me

who do you want to vote instead?

naughty point

I think you should chooce.

you too, naughty step

VOTE: gera
Why not
I’m still scumreading enchant but I think we get more out of linking this.

because im not scum??

then the 4 Holiday votes, wtf??

I don't have an issue with the wagon itself (other than I thought someone had her as hard town?) but why are there 4 people jumping on with 0 reasons given

This ^^^^ * 27

I don't have an issue with the wagon itself (other than I thought someone had her as hard town?) but why are there 4 people jumping on with 0 reasons given

I don't know if this is scum defending a p or scum WK'ing town. Is anyone up for a flashwagon on S_S instead?

you can't all be scum, how many are just crap townies???

2 of the people who sheeped me are in my town block, and then the other is A50, which could go either way with that vote. Can see it being townie trying to follow me, or scum trying to push where im pushing, but I do feel like Holiday has a high chance of being scum, they're in my pool, and I don't feel like pushing Norwegian or Osuka.

maybe you shouldnt have a town block

everyone throwing around PoE btw is a reason i hate Day 1. you cannnot be eliminating anyone when there is no information!

For instance, look at Something_Smart, Andante, and T3 posts after the Holiday wagon started. They were forced to take more action, and if Holiday is scum, I would bet one of them are scum with them.

you cannot keep throwing out groups of 3 or 4 players and going "i bet there is scum in there" - you are just batting average there!

@April: I like that you have my nickname in your sig. "Time Is Monkey, Monkey Is Power.."

all facts. Might be starting to lean town on you even if Holiday is town. Odd scum choice to push Holiday here the way you have.

I'm actually thinking the flash wagon 4 votes has a solid chance of being all town even if Holiday is town.

naughty point. you cant have a group of people, say they are all town and still be voting for one of them!

not going to lie - Holiday is giving off strong "scum who has been caught but is seriously pissed because they think the wagon is BS" vibes

I am starting to think that Holiday is Vanilla town, but i still say go for it, tbh.

naughty point

or I might be dead wrong on who holiday is
either way I'd rather vote VOTE: a50

So you DID fake claim 3-shot BG. I kinda sensed it because I'm not used to BG (who is meant to die anyway) being limited shot.

But it's still a major improvement from "Odd Night Traffic Analyzer Even Night Neighbour Finder".

i dont understand this post at all

Didn't we agree not to have more claims.

Yeah, I think that was just you, me and A50 that understand why pushing Holiday is overall just the correct play here so we don't have anymore claims, and damage control worst case scenario we lose a Vanilla.

Sucks to hear, but losing a townie Day 1 isn't that big of a deal, and scum likely don't want a VT flipped unless they were in major danger, which I don't believe they were. T3, if scum, had an out with his claim that I don't fully believe, the 3-shot is a little odd (literally), but yeah.

i hate this post with a passion, because everything in it i feel like can be answered with "lets not kill anyone day 1" as a better answer

This wagon is currently riding on too much spur of the moment momentum i feel.
So i'm gonna UNVOTE: just to see if i can get a more clear picture, since there's still time.

if they "reluctantly" vote Holiday and finish them off and the flip is Green, then this gets a naughty point. wanted to make sure i spotted this in case vote counts miss them going on and off the wagon.

For what it is worth, i can't see me joining the holiday wagon, i cannot remember what they have done in this game and i don't remember doing anything which made me notice

[geraintm]

if they "reluctantly" vote Holiday and finish them off and the flip is Green, then this gets a naughty point

If i was scum i would just not do this and be like:
"Hey look guys, i didn't do the scummy thing now i am town oh ho ho ho!"

Just I'm sure I've seen it before with scum voting like this and wanted to note it.

[geraintm]

give me a reason

naughty point

How did we lose Gamma and end up with this.

excellent steals from C&H

It's pretty clearly Holiday and Gamma slot.

dont understand this

I'm done, i have zero strong opinion on who to eliminate today, others do and having nothing really to contribute i am not going to add to Tracer's mammoth task of reading. I'm fed up with reading

[geraintm]

I'd like to point out that you haven't been hammered yet, but i wanted to milk it for all it was worth before mentioning it.

Is this true?????

[geraintm]

Ok, i am not ok with eliminating Holiday. i am treating them as VT the rest of the game - it is going to take a claimed investigation to make me change my mind.
I am not ok with getting rid of someone i beleive to be town.
VOTE: April as this has a better chance of hitting scum and i refuse to let Town knock off one of our own.

and i really wish people wouldnt play silly buggers with fake hammers.

[geraintm]

What your plan if Alice flips Town?

was this aimed at me?
re-evaluate if they do, use whatever night info we gain to help make some better informed decisions. same as ever??

[geraintm]

There's < 16 hours to deadline and your reason to townread holiday is bad

i only have had two guy feelings about holiday.
first was a feeling they looked like scum who were caught, but were seriously annoyed because they felt it was or BS reasons
second was "ive been hammered and i pissed off and saying who go after tomorrow"

second feels more believable to me, but then again i am a player who basically beleives 99% of everything written in thread. as far as i can tell, the reason to think holiday is scum is either "April said so" or "theyve been faking it since the hammer" and that to me at least feels way worse than the reasons i think they are town.

There are two wagons. If you unvote one of them, you're making it more likely the other one goes through. So if you don't want April to flip, you shouldn't be unvoting holiday

agree with Dwlee here - i can only see 2 possible eliminations today and you are either for April or for Holiday. Unvoting from one should mean voting for the other. i am 100% not wanting Holiday gone today so even i realise that means April should go.
if anyone decides to try and start a new wagon then i will vote for them though, with what - 12 hours or so to go - there is zero way town ends up with a good target.

[geraintm]

What your plan if Alice flips Town?

was this aimed at me?
re-evaluate if they do, use whatever night info we gain to help make some better informed decisions. same as ever??

Cool.

VOTE: Holiday

didnt see this as i was writing my post. think that makes most of my post irrelevant now.

[geraintm]

i only have had two guy feelings about holiday.

So, not only do you think holiday isn't a she, but you also believe it's a 2 guy hydra??

Guy = gut

[geraintm]

catching up. i read ahead but going through this in order.

BG is not Doctor.

who is BG?

I have a guilty.

why, why would you do this? if i had been around i would have insta voted april and you could have run them up quickly enough to get them eliminated.

You copped April?

Wow.

why did Enchant not immediately vote?

bunch of votes...

Actually let's think.

T3 protected April. April promised to protect NorwegianboyEE, but went for SS instead.
Right?

It makes little sense for April-Mafia killing Bullet if they can kill T3 and thus claim "I was attacked".

sowing confusion

I was setting my traps.

did the trap work? cause all i see now is a shed load of confusion...

I was setting my traps.

insert very angry gif, probably from Inside Out.
i now have literally no idea if i can trust anything you claim for the rest of this game - or the next couple i meet you in.

April plays guessing games with the scum kill - i am not clever enough to do this and i am 97% sure whatever reason you ever given them for their actions it will be wrong.

So I guess I should reveal something

I was targeted by an announcing role cop

I'm not sure if it's town or not though

great, off to the wiki for me....

ok back. i don't get it, what is the point?
do you know who targetted you, or is that not part of it, you just get told you were looked at by someone?

my head is spinning. too much had happened since the day opened up.

going to go and look at wagons from yesterday later and see if any of it makes sense.

[geraintm]

@ enchant

why would i know BG = bodyguard. i don't think ive ever played a game with one before, it never occurred to me that is what was meant.
I just assumed it was an Alt that everyone knew and i didn't.

using this to cast me as scummy just plane sucks though

the announcer -sorry for asking for clarification. i was (still am) confused by the value of it - it is just there to let someone know they were targetted that night? so i guess only useful by forcing the annoucer to claim - but that lets them get opened up to scum knowing the role exists? again, using my total inexperience of a role as a way of bashing me, why would i lie about something that is on the wiki?

sorry, just read back my post and i didn't mean to double quote april. the second quote of april was meant to be

Ok i just wanted your reactions.

I lied.
I have no guilty on you.

UNVOTE:

insert very angry gif, probably from Inside Out.
i now have literally no idea if i can trust anything you claim for the rest of this game - or the next couple i meet you in.


does my anger at Norwegian make more sense - it was not directed at April at all - you can see from the post numbers it is the next post i would comment upon.

[geraintm]

think i very clearly have demonstrated with that mixup i am nowhere near as competent as i should be

[geraintm]

I was targeted by an announcing role cop

You might as well claim at this point. You got role-copped and you're asking for the BG to be on you, and it doesn't take two brain cells to figure out you're a TPR, EVEN if it was a Town Rolecop (I don't think Town needs those anyway, but I'm covering all bases)

You know they claimed already, right?

[geraintm]

Sorry, staying at SiL's this weekend so less time to post.

I am more than happy to have T3 on the block. I confess I found their claim suspicious initially, but everyone else thought it was fine so I went with everyone else.
But, my main reason for not believing the claim was a total misunderstanding of the wiki - I thought it was a one shot ability for a normal game and claiming 3 shot made it mot possible. I am an idiot.

[geraintm]

hello.
sorry, i didnt receive a message saying the day had restarted.
and timings of day 2 were awful for me, sorry i didnt post more. i will get around to stuff today.

i have been in a traitor game recently. i'll go find it. was ridicoulsy scum balanced though was not fun

[geraintm]

Day 1 Final Vote Count:

Holiday (7) April Ludgate, Almost50, Dwlee99, T3, Something_Smart, Enchant, Hella Jeff [Hammer]
April Ludgate (6) Holiday, Andante, Tracer.Bullet, osuka, geraintm, NorwegianBoyEE

[/b]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

T3 (6) Dwlee99, Something_Smart, NorwegianBoyEE, Almost50, Andante, April Ludgate [Hammer]

Andante (1) osuka

Not Voting (4): geraintm, T3, Hella Jeff, Enchant

sorry for being so absent

these are the 2 eliminations. Holiday being town, T3 not.

The holiday wagon had April as town, T3 as scum

Almost50, Dwlee99, Something_Smart, Enchant & Hella Jeff on wagon



The T3 wagon had April as town

Dwlee99, Something_Smart, NorwegianBoyEE, Almost50 & Andante

and off wagon were Hella Jeff & Enchant

i'm using Norwegian's post 2860 as a basis for claims, with Andante adding VT.

there isnt much to go on. assuming the claims are real, the pool of candidates are pretty small.

1. Almost50 < D1 votes TOwn and then for D2 scum
3. Andante < D1 votes town, D2 votes scum
7. osuka <D1 votes town, D2 weird vote
9. NorwegianBoyEE < D1 voted town, D2 voted scum
10. Hella Jeff < D1 hammered town over scum, D2 off the T3 wagon
13. Something_Smart < D1 voted town, D2 voted scum

Looking at these, Osuka and HElla Jeff look the most suspicious to me.
the rest (Almost50, Andanta, Norwegian and Somthing Smart) don't get too much credit for being on the scum wagon day 2 as it looked like t3 was the only viable candidate the whole day and i don't htink scum would not bus there. I can see scum being anywhere there

(just going to check the two claimed slots and how they voted for completemess)

Enchant - voted town Day 1, off wagon day 2
Dwlee - voted town day 1, first on t3 wagon day 2

[geraintm]

Geraint have you actually caught scum before doing this?

sometimes.

[geraintm]

Geraint have you actually caught scum before doing this?

sometimes.

its a starting point for me

[geraintm]

sorry, been on leave today and not checked the threda

[geraintm]

I think what I'd like to do is

VOTE: geraintm

why? i havent checked back through your post history but i dont recall you ever saying i was scummy?

[geraintm]

VOTE: Geraintm

you two? why?

tbh this might just be a simple solve of gerain and osuka

VOTE: Gerain [/vote ]

you three?

i dont have time at the moment to see why there is this sudden switch to me, but i cannot remember anything from the last few days

[geraintm]

tbh this might just be a simple solve of gerain and osuka

VOTE: Gerain [/vote ]

oMg uR pUsHiNg wEaK pEoPlE

None of them are even online.

feels like someone wants another wagon going to make sure they arent in line themselves

[geraintm]

Can both of them claim

I'm vt. I would have e thought that obvious

[geraintm]

The game is dead because only 4 out of 9 people are voting.

Sorry. I didn't get chance at all the engage with the game yesterday, and the last few days have not been helpful either.
I am not currently voting, but I've been very clear there are people I am not going to vote today

[geraintm]

Looked quickly.as osuka. Their posts today have had zero content, it has mostly been setup speculation

[geraintm]

Jeff....I've got nothing from them. There was a bit where they said they are going to need to reevaluate, but nothing after that.

Both Jeff and osaku feel like they've checked out of thr game, esp osuka. On the basis of their play so far, that is where I would be leaning most strongly

[geraintm]

can someone actually point out what, if any, real bases for this push exist? i'm struggling to find anything so really as far as i can tell this is sort of stupid

I get you, I feel the push on me is the same.

I think you are more likely to be scum than most people in the game, and certainly more likely than me

VOTE: osaku

You've not really come back to the game with much

[geraintm]

Can both of them claim

I'm vt. I would have e thought that obvious

If you're VT why aren't you trying to idk be townie and draw a kill

Draw a kill? You mean deliberately get myself voted off today instead of scum?

[geraintm]

Can both of them claim

I'm vt. I would have e thought that obvious

If you're VT why aren't you trying to idk be townie and draw a kill

Draw a kill? You mean deliberately get myself voted off today instead of scum?

These sorts of posts make me feel bad for defending you.

Why? I have never been one for accepting a fate of being eliminated when it won't help town, and I know that to be the case now.
If there were power roles around that needed protecting then maybe, but that isn't the case here and voting me off is just plain dumb

[geraintm]

Posting these gone 11pm in freezing garden trying not to lose the dog through the hedge

[geraintm]

Oh, I see.
I cannot ever act scummy enough to draw them. I tried in past games, but to act that oddly would be so out of character no kne would buy it. I don't think I've ever been targeted night 1 as a kill, and possibly night 2 either. Scum know me well enough that I am worth leaving around because I will eventually become a deadweight for town and town wished me dead

[geraintm]

Osuka (3) Andante, Almost50, geraintm [E-2]
geraintm (2) Something_Smart, Dwlee99

VOTE: Geraintm
^Lol when thinking i just said: "i tend to eliminate Geraintm as scum".
But seriously, i now think this is an decent vote for the time being, for multiple reasons.

What reasons?
I went back through your posts and I cannot see the progression to vote for me. I think thr last time you mentioned me you said I was towny because some of my posts were good for me?

[geraintm]

why? i havent checked back through your post history but i dont recall you ever saying i was scummy?

you spent all of D1 complaining and now it's D3 and all you've done is some facile VCA

I'm not saying it's scummy per se, but I would like to hear more from you

Ah, that's fair. Have you played with me before?

If this wagon was started just to pressure me and others are joining for other, less well explained reasons then I feel better.

[geraintm]

VOTE: Geraintm

Was this vote just to apply.pressure because I've been absent too?

You say I should as VT try and draw out night kills more. I've never been able to do that in past games (though it gives me an idea for my next one). I've always in thr past as town just tried to be townie and be useful that way. I aim to not eliminate town as my main way - my thinking has always been if we don't give scum free eliminations that is a good thing and why I ended up voting april day 1, I totally thought the elimination that went through was going to be town so I thought something else would have been better than that result.
But being a sub-standard player on average, scum never target me - you are asking for me to just become a better player and I'm not really capable of that....sorry

[geraintm]

Ah, that's fair. Have you played with me before?

If this wagon was started just to pressure me and others are joining for other, less well explained reasons then I feel better.

No, I haven't, but I've played with other people with a similar "D1 is useless" mentality, and the mentality only really makes sense if you actually kick into gear on future days.

My PoE is {you, Jeff, osuka}, so I'm not opposed to executing you, but I picked you primarily to get you to talk more, yes.

Day 2 I never really got a chance to post. T3 went down really quick, and I think thr Day started on a Friday and they were gone by Sunday and weekends aren't great for me.
I've tried catching up today, but if most of the pressure on menos because I've been absent, then all I can do is whine about the reason and feel bad.
Does that make sense?

[geraintm]

Enchant and Hella Jeff need to get closer to voting. Enchant being basically confirmed town needs to help give some leadership, and Jeff needs to actually make some sort of commitment, Jeff cannot go another day liek yesterday without showing any sort of read

[geraintm]

It feels like a bunch of you just want someone else to solve the game for you.

that would be nice.
It certainly feels that after tonight we'll have enough info to have this game solved. feels like too much info being gained each night and unless they've got something up their sleeves?

[geraintm]

Wait did osuka claim yet

No, and posted lots after was asked to too.

[geraintm]

Hmmm.

Alright i am ready to vote Gera. If i am wrong, then i am wrong.

You are wrong. I haven't a clue what the case is against me except not being more like others want town to behave

[geraintm]

i'm placing a vote today i promise

If Jeff gets through today without placing a vote before elimination then they need to be pushed very hard tomorrow. It will be unacceptable for them to get this far through thr game without having to actually have an opinion, though I am fairly confident they'll be so few unconfirmed townies left by then they will be first on the block

[geraintm]

if i knew i was actually null in the people's eyes i would've been cranking out more content since the beginning of d3 grrrrrrr

catching up this morning, i normally kim everything and then go back and properly reply but i had to respond immediatly to this.

This is straight up bull. I've been posting for days that you seem to be deliberately avoiding all commitments. you didn't vote at all yesterday, and i believe the only vote you've placed today is on yourself and i have called you out repeatedly on it.

[geraintm]

confused on why a few people are completely conflicted on how easy they are to read? i think norwee said that he's hard to read and dwlee said that he's polarized at one point and it's like, nerds, make up your mind on him or else i'm forced to proclaim metabad
geraint claims to be a terrible town player and also gets rlly nervous as scum and i assume both explain the low post count and in turn the low presence, making sure you guys know taht idc abt that
GtH gerain's town t3 was most likely just building up to make him his pet townread if i used that phrase correctly

time to go for several hours

does they refer to me?
i think i am easy to read, but that may just be my opinion of myself and how badly i played in my few scum games. others can say different

what does GtH geraint's town T3 mean??

[geraintm]

But the promised vote didn't come.

Here's an thinking exercise.
I'm gonna pretend that Osuka and Geraint were magically confirmed town right this instant, where would i vote now?

Well first of all i would consider if Dwlee's claim is bullshit. And then second i would ask myself if Jeff and A50 are trustworthy. I think the slots i'd still trust would be probably S_S and Enchant. Especially Enchant.

If everyone else could say where they think scum would be that'd be appreciated.

you can trust Jeff - becuase so far they've had no actual opinions backed up with actions

VOTE: Hella Jeff

gah - this is awful and very unhelpful

Limming April would also out T3.

it makes their claim less likely if that's what you mean
nightkilling april

mechanically outs

T3

wouldn't scum have just backed into a "well, scum must have some sort of role that can power through protections - have to to balance out all the protectives we have?"
[i assume there are scum roles like that?]

if i knew i was actually null in the people's eyes i would've been cranking out more content since the beginning of d3 grrrrrrr

is this aimed at me and osaku? reading it now i think that is what it means.
i did try - i went back on the votes and stuff but the game moved on quickly passed that to a wagon on me and i didn't know what else to say

[geraintm]

I have this feeling osaku will vote for me to create a wagon against their own. We have both sat here all day confused by the reasons for our respective wagons.
I know creating a me vs osaku choice is at best 50% town, and I've just seen this person look worse and worse as the day goes onVOTE: jeff

[geraintm]

I have this feeling osaku will vote for me to create a wagon against their own. We have both sat here all day confused by the reasons for our respective wagons.
I know creating a me vs osaku choice is at best 50% town, and I've just seen this person look worse and worse as the day goes onVOTE: jeff

this vote hasn't come from nowhere - i had JEff down as in my top 2 most likely and their play today has just been avoidance at best and despite pleas for them to actually commit to something today the best we have had is a self vote

[geraintm]

I think I'd most like to see Gera gone today

I'm pretty unimpressed with his analysis and general effort levels

VOTE: Gera

You were already voting for me, or does self-analysis of your own vote not count? I've at least got that level of attention to the game

Both me and osaku have been shouting all day we cannot understand the wagons on us - yet you feel the need to double down on the pressure on me?

[geraintm]

If Jeff is allowed on day 3 to have not placed a meaningful vote since day 1...town deserves what is coming.

[geraintm]

I feel like shit.

because of killing jeff?
i begged them to do anything to not get eliminated, but they just sat there for nearly the whole day and did nothing (they did vote osaku but it was too late by then)

SS you were pretty obvious that you were the role cop ngl

i wish it was as obvious to me and Enchant as that was a seriously wasted night....

Dwlee - i had you down as town, i dont think S-S getting killed changes at all how everyone sees you.

to add - i was targetted by the rolecop last night

[geraintm]

i am not ok with this
i haven't had chance to go back through it all, but there are 3 clears and (for me) 3 who aren't. [i think that is right, i need to double check all the claims and implications of all the actions]
I wanted osaku yesterday and i am going to go back there now. jeff placing their vote on osaku - i am thinking that was an attempt at misdirection??

i am more than happy to get checked tonight so you can see i am not scum. VOTE: osaku

alright im gonna elect to trust norwe for no good reason other than if he was scum he definitely didn't have to do any of that, because if he's scum then he knows for a fact i'll flip green. there's no reason for him to expose himself like that other than to try to pocket me, which wont really work here if jeff flips green because then that casts a lot of doubt on what the fuck just happened

VOTE: jeff

that was the osaku vote yesterday, and to me it looks like attempting to not take ownership of their vote and push it elsewhere, but is this osaku and norwegian putting fake arguments between themselves - i dunno, but assuming oasku flips red that is the place i'd want people to go hunt rather than come after me - though if scsum are down to only one after today i think we win this because too many slots will be eliminated from consideration.

[geraintm]

So.

I targeted Gera. No actions performed, no actions on them.

Also, we are now for sure in Elo, so don't vote without thinking ok?

I am not sure if mafia really consider me incompetent or trying to swing votes in my directions. If you have doubts about me, please say so right now, not when we decide on someone and suddenly "uh you know i think it's Enchant".

I am so dim. I honestly thought you would give my role as well as what i did. I realise now I am not cleared as i thought I would be. Weekend, cannot post much, will maybe post snippets later and properly catch up tomorrow

[geraintm]

I already claimed VT. I thought Enchant would see I had no abilities. Sorry. Am I being really confusing?

[geraintm]

sorry, i nealy posted 3 hours ago saying i had seen the thread, but i've been stuck in meetings all morning so havent had time to post

[geraintm]

i didnt want to just post nothing - but that is exactly what i am doing

[geraintm]

i saw there were the competing votes, and fully realise the implications of that, but i havent had the time to work out which one i think it is.

[geraintm]

VOTE: Blood

Yep. I did vote. I am sick of this.

Go hammer/call it Andante/Enchant i dare you.

VOTE: blood

[geraintm]

Sorry, this was one game where my uselessness as town was helpful for me being scum. When you read the mafia thread though, you'll see how poorly we thought we were doing. It felt like at multiple times town was solving the game, yet town talked themselves into the wrong option.
I fully expect my next game to get hammered day 1 if I play exactly the same as this game

[geraintm]

Happy to have mafia thread open

[geraintm]

Fuck it, i’n going here.
VOTE: Hello Jeff

This was the post that was the start of town losing it.

In the mafia thread i am pretty sure we were convinced i was 50% gone day 3 and then certain to go Day 4.

And the mafia thread is a perfect example i think to never try and second guess Scum's logic on its kills.