Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!]

[ProHawk]

Seems like we've escaped the random voting scene so I need to take a few moments to digest the scene which I haven't had enough time to do properly yet.

Man I feel old when new terms come into play that are new to me... when did "locktown" become a thing... haha

Anyhow, I'd love to get a feel for the experience of our newer players if you'd like to intro that a bit for those of you who haven't, that would be great.

[ProHawk]

So fair warning, I'm phone posting this whole weekend so don't expect a lot of quoting and long posts going on because it's well difficult.

After reading and trying to digest a bit after a long day I've come to get some initial gutish reads.

I like merci and muah as town based on good posts that have a town feel of scum hunting in general. I have a feeling that Prism is town but am weirded out by the post in which she votes me almost like as if she needs to vote me to have me answer a question. I had gotten some scummy vibes from the questions that Greeting had initially put out like they were questions for the sake of questions without any follow up.

The rest of you I still need to sort, also for those of you who are more experienced, keep in mind the players who are actually new to Mafia in general and not overwhelm the thread in intense discussion.

VOTE: Greeting

[ProHawk]

Oh, actually I almost forgot:

VOTE: ProHawk

Seems like we've escaped the random voting scene so I need to take a few moments to digest the scene which I haven't had enough time to do properly yet.

Man I feel old when new terms come into play that are new to me... when did "locktown" become a thing... haha

Anyhow, I'd love to get a feel for the experience of our newer players if you'd like to intro that a bit for those of you who haven't, that would be great.

I was curious if anything came of this.

If anything came of what?

[ProHawk]

heya heya! when did u last play..?
im not sure when it became a thing

Ummm I think about a year ago was my last game on site here.

[ProHawk]

I also fundamentally disagree on the value of intense discussion relating to the new players. Your two townreads, three counting your gutread on me, all came from such discussions. Two of the newer players have been core drivers, and the rest have not shied away.

Oh I'm not doubting the value of them, just that they can be overwhelming to keep up with and follow as a new player.

My reads are still very surface level. I think it's mainly the level of interaction they both have in the game

[ProHawk]

Something

really weird

is happening with my wagon tbf. I already stated my intentions when it comes to MegAzumarill and promised that I would explain what I'm doing. It seems like in the meantime the game has drifted towards me and I don't even know how to defend myself, because I don't know why am I suddenly the leading wagon.

What do you feel is strange about your wagon?
Scum led or town led?

[ProHawk]

I'm on my phone I will get to quote your posts when I get some more time but they're the initial ones

[ProHawk]

Something

really weird

is happening with my wagon tbf. I already stated my intentions when it comes to MegAzumarill and promised that I would explain what I'm doing. It seems like in the meantime the game has drifted towards me and I don't even know how to defend myself, because I don't know why am I suddenly the leading wagon.

What do you feel is strange about your wagon?
Scum led or town led?

As long as we are talking about faking content, there is this.

What's fake about this?

[ProHawk]

Still getting caught up from over the weekend. Will get to the meat of this thing in a bit.

[ProHawk]

Real quick, initial impressions are that Greeting doesn't feel like opportunistic scum for vote hopping to marci who is generally town-read in the thread.

Probably going to take a peek at Prism, getting scum-vibes there ATM.

[ProHawk]

I've intentionally avoided commenting on Greeting as I knew that they faced issues with players scumreading their tone and finding their play frustrating in Newbie 2081. I wanted to take the time to work through the substance and progression instead.

There's an instinct to be transparent about trying something new that might backfire. Unfortunately, it is usually counterproductive and results in more scrutiny being put on the thing you're testing. I think this is the confusion Greeting is experiencing.

Reviewing Greeting's ISO, I see some pieces I like and some common themes. It's very obvious, at least to me, that what they're doing involves running people up to high-but-not-elimination wagons. Post 91 makes it clear that they weren't voting Meg out of suspicion. I think the most illuminating line comes at the end of 91 in reply to marci: "Wagons can also be used for other purposes than actually voting someone out and that's what I want to do."

I'm not really inclined to vote this slot yet. I wouldn't call it hardtown but I liked 46's reply to Marcistar. Greeting wasn't enthused by the gamepace, but didn't realize that marcistar was highlighting that

someone

has to push the game forward, and the response is in line with that.

This is important based on how I'm reading you at the moment.

You've apparently read Newbie 2081 from Greeting and his intro here in this game. What conclusions have you come up with between the two?

[ProHawk]

Greeting, In answering your question...

In what way?

Why do you expect scum to be a bit nervous?

Let's say I do. Who is your choice and why?

These questions specifically struck me as.... asking questions to ask questions, I can't detect or see the scum-hunting motivation behind these, which I have generally found are easy for scum to ask and drive conversation without actually scum-hunting.

For those of you trying to follow my thought process.

[ProHawk]

-_()_- It feels more likely to come from town than scum.

I'd provide example but I don't think we'd get anywhere.

VOTE: ProHawk Let's get some pressure this way.

Can you explain your logic/reasoning here? Have you put Greeting on the not-scum list as of this post?

[ProHawk]

ProHawk-given that that post develops a Greeting townread as opposed to a scumread, and I did not hesitate to pull out the meta I had on hand for marcistar to justify the townread I developed on her, what are you concerned with here?

I'm trying to peek into your brain.

So did you not look at the game as a basis on your read developing a town-read? I know you felt like that game was similar in.... "players scumreading their tone and finding their play frustrating". Is that what you meant was the similarity here?

I ISO'ed Greeting in that game, and felt a difference in play-style here from there, so I'm trying to understand from your POV if that makes sense?

[ProHawk]

That said, the MafiaScum wiki has some great articles that have kind of stood the test of time. I'm partial to this one.

Wow, this article is a real eye-opener as to how players on MafiaScum operate and behave. I guess it explains quite a lot. I’ve obviously played mafia several times before joining this site and I knew the general strategies, which I applied in my own way. I had no idea that people use this as a suggested point system and then act upon it.

Alright locking Greeting as town.

Have a nice day

Is this locking town thing a joke around here? I can't fathom any town-player locking anyone down as town aside from IC, or flipped-seer-confirmed.

Is locktown = conftown?

[ProHawk]

Just seems like you are asking a random question without really thinking or trying to see perspective for yourself. I don't see depth in your content in general this game.

If you're town and care to know, I will try to explain this for you.

Greeting said there was something off about his wagon. My mind goes here... "Is he saying its off to throw shade on the people that are pushing his wagon, or does he really feel like it's off... and if he legitimately feels like it's off, why or what was the purpose of saying that specifically." Me asking him more questions helps me see where his thought process is, instead of just assuming where he was going with that.

[ProHawk]

That makes more sense. Why haven't you skimmed my previous games?

[ProHawk]

I find this trajectory on me very odd, almost forced. Here in 92 we get this...

I'll hold of voting Meg, or anyone, for the moment.

Then they post 93, and then in 94 we get

Oh, actually I almost forgot:

VOTE: ProHawk

Seems like we've escaped the random voting scene so I need to take a few moments to digest the scene which I haven't had enough time to do properly yet.

Man I feel old when new terms come into play that are new to me... when did "locktown" become a thing... haha

Anyhow, I'd love to get a feel for the experience of our newer players if you'd like to intro that a bit for those of you who haven't, that would be great.

I was curious if anything came of this.

And that's all within a span of four minutes... so that begs the question as to why would you say you would hold off on voting anyone and then vote someone four minutes later.

Well... here's the answer...

I was referring to the digestion of the first few pages. The vote was a friendly prod.

So a friendly prod, why again make a comment earlier that you weren't going to vote someone? It's such strange trajectory, especially when the friendly prod turns into

Happy to vote pile: ProHawk, MegAzumarill, StrangeMatter

Which means there is some semblance of this vote-prod having turned into more without.... having more? This feels like a vote-park, which is also evidenced by the quick shift to Greeting, and then MegAxumarill without having finished sorting me, the vote-park. Round that out with Prism being an apparently very heavy meta-based-reads person and no research done for my own particular meta....

[ProHawk]

In resume,

That's where the scum-vibes are mostly coming from with Prism is a lack of trajectory and even sorting/hunting particularly of my slot. With one caveat, and would like some input from the rest of you,

Prism's tone sounds very.... honorable? Her tone doesn't match to me what I would consider a low-blow by scum-knowing that Greeting was posting from a private topic and then using that as a "smoking gun" (In the event that Greeting was town and Prism was scum).

UNVOTE: Greeting

VOTE: Prism

I have a hard time seeing that scum-greeting goes all-in on pushing for a marci lynch when they are essentially on the chopping block. Greeting has been pretty much front and center, playing very bold, I don't see that from scum here yet. The only odd thing is the drop off on meme/video posting from them but I have no idea if that's even AI.

[ProHawk]

Nope, still was scumreading greeting but the wagon was stagnant so I decided to try to get some content out of you.

Voting me to get more content out of me usually only works when I'm around

[ProHawk]

Well, that's quite the defense

[ProHawk]

Hawk seems more focused on throwing suspicion on Prism than on developing significant reads or reads on the broader set of players, which is off-putting

I don't have the time to go through the thread and make a giant ass reads list, not to mention this is D1 with no flips or alignments to analyze which actually yield productive results.

I already mentioned the effort of scum hunting which put you and Marcii as top town reads for me. I'm not sure what else you want?

[ProHawk]

Well, that's quite the defense

And that's not a response to 317 nor to 322

Why did you cut all of the substantive criticism of your slot I gave from your quote of 111 and ignore all followups to it ex. 193/265?

Because they are all reasons made after you decided to vote-park me?

[ProHawk]

Hawk seems more focused on throwing suspicion on Prism than on developing significant reads or reads on the broader set of players, which is off-putting

I don't have the time to go through the thread and make a giant ass reads list, not to mention this is D1 with no flips or alignments to analyze which actually yield productive results.

I already mentioned the effort of scum hunting which put you and Marcii as top town reads for me. I'm not sure what else you want?

I'm not asking for a huge list, just a bit more development. Also D1 can absolutely be a productive day and while flips help the game develop, there is nothing stopping us from advancing significantly before then

Advancing based on speculative information?

[ProHawk]

Did you see Prisms reaction to my post? Rofl

[ProHawk]

What in the world are you going on about? You're pissed off at my post, fine. I'm not scum, I'm just saying what I see. If I'm wrong I'll own it you want to have a Convo? Cool. I'll chat, otherwise make your choice and deal with it.

[ProHawk]

And yeah you're being super fucking defensive about my post.

[ProHawk]

Don't gaslight me

[ProHawk]

You literally don't understand your own posts. Go look at 333

This is a

problem if you are town.

That link is broken unless you want me to go look at another game... Can we all agree to stop using the damn POST bracket thingy on this thread? Just quote it.

[ProHawk]

Anyone I haven't mentioned is in the null pile. Reads list completed. I'll do more digging later.

[ProHawk]

I'll be back tomorrow in any case for whatever the response is. I will try to have a cooler head by then but right now I just think you're flat out scum who can't keep track of your own claims.

You should probably just go read how I post... Unless you are scum and just keep on keeping on

[ProHawk]

Okayy, have some time to dedicate here so I'll give some more of my thoughts in a bit after I do more reading and digesting.

[ProHawk]

We have about 3 days left, the next two days are going to be kinda hectic for a lot of us I'm sure.... we need to have someone lined up at E-1 so we can get claims and some time to deliberate although I'm sure with a replacement time may be extended??

I need to review arguments for Marcii, but I am not really feeling like that's a good first D1 elimination. I think flipping me town will give you all some good light on Prism so I'm okay if that's the direction we all want to go down. Between Marcii and myself, I would choose myself to flip I think, I'll get back to you on that.

[ProHawk]

That makes more sense. Why haven't you skimmed my previous games?

I literally just addressed this in the two previous posts. What is making sense to you here if not those posts?

Can you please directly answer my question instead of deflect with "go read my last two posts" because and I will quote them here... they skate around the question in a verbose method which isn't direct nor is it transparent.

Spoiler: Two Previous Posts

I again skimmed that game 3 weeks before the start of this one and only noticed Greeting in passing as my focus was on another player.

It informed my focus on using an analysis of his progression as opposed to tone and surface level when it came to reading the slot. My first post is exactly the result. I do not remember a single post of his, I have more vivid memory of the frustration of other players.

While it may seem like I have infinite time to work over every game played onsite, this is unfortunately not the case. I will reread it if I have time but it should be obvious

from the post you quoted

where my effort was directed and why.

Contrast this to marcistar and Meuh, who I skimmed new games of looking for

extremely specific behavior

as opposed to trying to divine some new pathway.

I will re-iterate. You are a meta-heavy player. You've accused me of "None of this points towards a genuine curiosity in my alignment." Well that same attribute goes straight to you in that vein. One would think that if you use meta as a guide to get to know a player (especially one that you are scum-reading and havent ever played with before) that you would be interested in doing a little skimming there no?

In fact, is there something I missed here that you've actually tried to engage me in that would help you figure out my alignment? Because from where I am sitting (and I do miss a lot of things so there's that) you got all upset in OMGUS style when I made a post against you and then voted for you. So if you can help me see where you are coming from without attacking me and saying "scum, scum, scum" that would be great.

[ProHawk]

I would like to know where the strength of that read comes from, and who you would be other good flips. Presumably I am still one but there isn't enough appetite.

This is D1.

Reads (at least mine) I don't hold a lot of weight on until I can get some concrete information to play with.

We have to vote someone off D1, so my approach is going with someone who I feel like has the greatest probability of flipping RED.

I like Marci's posting style and tone, I don't feel a lot of opportunism from her, I feel like she's actively searching for scum and digesting the thread in general. Could she be scum? Sure, all of us could at this point, but it would surprise me and I feel like others would do more to help drive the game for a town win than flipping Marci, my flip included.

[ProHawk]

So if I am reading this correctly, you are stating that you do not normally meta people to determine alignment?

EBWOP: I'm getting there, have a little patience.

[ProHawk]

re: 302 Yours was the only start I hated because you didn't engage with the content and didn't follow up on the promise to. It was on page 2. I wrote a catchup post when I finished reading and didn't like my vote anywhere. I remembered that entrance existed and placed my vote accordingly.

The trajectory is 4 minutes. Do you think as scum worried about where to put a vote I just made the decision to vote nowhere, then changed it out of fear or nervousness <4 minutes later? This isn't something impossible to fake but there's a clear trajectory here and you're arguing it's a lack of one.

I have kept you in my top vote picks ever since that opening. I have grilled you continuously to make your reads concrete and to provide content. If the trajectory you're expecting is to have moved you to town, why on earth would I have when you still hadn't done a thing?

I'm not arguing that there is NO trajectory here, clearly as you have presented your defensive arguments you have shown that you had "reasons".

I am arguing that I don't see a natural progression of trajectory here. It FEELS off to me. It feels like you saw something you could push, voted, and kept it there until you had something more concrete either on myself or someone else.

[ProHawk]

Well, that's quite the defense

And that's not a response to 317 nor to 322

Why did you cut all of the substantive criticism of your slot I gave from your quote of 111 and ignore all followups to it ex. 193/265?

The snippit from 111 was not criticism in the form of I'm scum-reading you. It was an explanation of your opening phrase which was a "friendly prod" meaning that snippit went to support why you "friendly prodded me". I'm glad that you were concerned about that stuff, but it's not more of a fence sitting observation than anything substantive.

The rest was you building a case based on your park-vote from my POV.

I'm not going to say that I am 100 percent correct because I'm not, and I usually don't hit scum on my D1 reads, but this is where my gut is taking me, so I'm going with it.

I think a lot of your frustration lies in you thinking that I meant that you had no-trajectory which I will admit I said in a way that is easy to be interpreted that way. I should have said that I see a lack of

natural

trajectory.

[ProHawk]

Look Prism,

I think you're scum and that would explain your behavior for me.

You think I'm scum and that would explain my behavior for you.

We are going to talk to eachother in circles and shit up this thread which is counter-productive to what we should be doing which is allowing everyone the time and opportunity to get in here and give content, particularly those of us who are time-constrained and can't read pages on pages of posts and feel overwhelmed.

If you have any legitimate questions for me that would help you sort me I'm game. If you are going to point fingers at me and accuse me of shit all while asking me questions doing so, there isn't really a point in doing that so let's just not.

[ProHawk]

defensiveness is NAI

Would like to address this for the class though...

Caught for the wrong reasons is a syndrome of scum-not town.

Defensiveness is NAI, however OTT defensiveness I've found comes from scum-more than town.

[ProHawk]

prohawk did u already say what u think of strangematter or no..?

Going through this ISO now. I actually haven't really paid much attention to their posts in the throes of my battle.

[ProHawk]

So, why not correct the misconception right at the beginning instead of blowing up the thread? Or maybe I'm mis-interpreting this?

[ProHawk]

Okay, so.... going through StrangeMatter's ISO -

It wasn't terribly long or hard. I liked that they kinda went to bat for me against Prism but I think that's just me wanting validation more so than anything concrete.

I did notice that there wasn't and STILL isn't a clear vote for pressure or scum or anything really. There are a few reads put out there and a few comments, but honestly I don't see any or very little scum-hunting here. A lot of it is just sitting back and commenting.

This wouldn't be a bad vote for today and I could get behind it.

[ProHawk]

Hello, old friends and new friends.

Old friends is right!! Glad to see you're still kickin.

You've got a lot to catch up on...

[ProHawk]

So, why not correct the misconception right at the beginning instead of blowing up the thread? Or maybe I'm mis-interpreting this?

I have done so repeatedly, and immediately from the moment you made the claim.

Wasn't that like after blowing up the thread? Saying something like maybe you missed this? What do you think my post here and here are doing?

And actually reading the room... I'm thinking about going here.

VOTE: StrangeMatter

[ProHawk]

Imagine a world where you have a question about when something was posted and could just click the link that takes you to the time it was posted

OMFG

I voted you in post #306 8:21PM

You posted...

18 posts until

#343 (which is the one you linked to) at 10:30PM

Imagine theres no country.... no religion too....

[ProHawk]

Two people (Greeting, Implosion), in the last game I just played, said a very, very similar thing to this.

Please don't make me assume what your point is here??

[ProHawk]

I refuse to believe that ProHawk is not literate. I'm not moving my vote.

And you're just an ass so there's that.

[ProHawk]

Greeting, what happened to all of the memes/youtube links/pictures in your posts?

[ProHawk]

Sorry I rushed that post.

My point is that that’s just how I play right now, and multiple people have pointed that out. Though those two were both Town (actually there’s another game where people literally accused me several times doing nothing), I feel like it’s something people constantly say about my slot and is very easy to latch onto.

...Yes... so how do you catch scum exactly?

[ProHawk]

I have put a large amount of time, effort, and good faith into engaging with you. I do not feel it has been returned. I will restrict it to that and apologize for the literacy comment. Let's end it there

Thank you. I apologize for calling you an ass.

[ProHawk]

Greeting, what happened to all of the memes/youtube links/pictures in your posts?

...nothing? They're still there last second I checked.

umm, no I mean like you stopped doing it.

[ProHawk]

Sorry I rushed that post.

My point is that that’s just how I play right now, and multiple people have pointed that out. Though those two were both Town (actually there’s another game where people literally accused me several times doing nothing), I feel like it’s something people constantly say about my slot and is very easy to latch onto.

...Yes... so how do you catch scum exactly?

ATM looking for other towns and POE from there, I realized I sucked at good scumhunting with how I was wrong on my first guess (though my second guess for mafia was right I just hadn't acted on it) from Mtn Dew Mafia (though I still think the person I suspected was incredibly scummy lol). Mostly just trying something different.

Prism for example I think is likely town from the post I highlighted earlier about them, though I'm still a little dubious about their push on you.

Okay... well we have three days left to narrow someone down and it should be done within the next 24 hours (ideally should have been done already) and you have yet to vote anyone or definitively pressure anyone that you feel like should be the elimination today. How is that going for you?

[ProHawk]

Gun to the head?

[ProHawk]

Here's my ranking from most town to most scum...

ProHawk
marcistar
Meuh
Greeting
Cabd
MegAzumarill
Cape90
StrangeMatter
Prism Spartan117

Cabd isn't a real read but because of the lack of content he goes smack dab in the middle for now.

[ProHawk]

I dislike ProHawk's trying to steer away from Prism (this is specifically onto StrangeMatter)

I would love to hear more about this, specifically why Scum-ProHawk would do such a thing as opposed to tunnel on Prism like she's going to be doing on me the rest of the game...

[ProHawk]

Also why in the world are you also not voting anyone? I could probably also go for a Cape90 elimination at this point.

Unless anyone has any earth-shattering revelations, I'm probably sticking to one of [Cape, SM, or Prism]

[ProHawk]

whered u talk abt ur meg azumarill read..? or did u not..?

Not town, not scum, haven't gotten much one way or the other there. This is day one damn you're all kinds of thorough maybe if that's a good word for it.

[ProHawk]

Good luck to us if we run up a power town finding a plan B....

[ProHawk]

I suppose that's understandable logic...

Going after the lower hanging fruit, although I'm mostly just frustrated that we have zero traction on anyone this late in the game

[ProHawk]

Lack of voting, lots of opinions, essentially fence-sitting behavior

[ProHawk]

Greeting absolutely has a meta shift, unsure if that's AI though....

Finally you voted, geez.

[ProHawk]

I'll go in depth when able (unknown when but probably in 24 hrs or so)

VOTE: Prism

While I appreciate the vote, I don't think there is enough support for a Prism Elimination, you really should be looking between myself and StrangeMatter unless people get on and start swinging a certain direction.

I have a feeling that the lack of traction on anything indicates that scum is likely stalling.

[ProHawk]

Lack of voting

, lots of opinions, essentially fence-sitting behavior

Okay I know this is about Cape09, but why is a lack of voting scummy?

Voting pisses people off. Scum need to stay out of the limelight to survive. Not to mention, they are forcing a rushed elimination which will force us to make quick decisions.

[ProHawk]

There's no 100% secret sauce playbook on how to catch scum, just letting you know my viewpoints on it.

Vote count analysis is huge towards endgame on figuring out motives. If you just plain never vote, it makes it a lot harder to be sussed out.

[ProHawk]

No, I don't vote to piss people off, people just take offence in general to being voted has been my general experience. You voting for someone calls attention to yourself, versus being a "neutral" party and staying out of fights, etc.

[ProHawk]

Cabd is coming in all kinds of buddy buddy hey guys remember this game and that let's use the history we have together to skew my reads... And if memory also serves right, he uses meta as scum to frame most arguments for mis-eliminations.

It's still dumb to me that he hasn't voted considering the time we have renaming.

VOTE: Cabd

[ProHawk]

Greeting absolutely has a meta shift, unsure if that's AI though....

Imagine if the world was just this simple... Greeting & ProHawk.

Rule 1 of Cape town: I always townread at least 1 mafia.

It's not. You should rethink this.

[ProHawk]

Can you elaborate on why ProHawk's "hilarious reaction" bit strikes you as scummy? I thought it very natural, which is why I moved so quickly to try and nip it in the bud so I could hopefully get something useful instead. It's his lack of acknowledgement that this is a deeply-ingrained tendency while sticking to his guns on it that is the red flag for me. I don't see an issue with the defensiveness assertion itself.

Dunno how much you know of Hawk and I's history, we come form the same long-dead homesite (Pokegym, RIP non-pokemon archives to make it family friendly) but that used to be a bad habit he had when overwhelmed by a case and having to break it down into bits. Actually we specifically forced ourselves NOT to do that when we hydra'd as scum that one time because it was such a beacon of alignment indication.

In fairness, I don't know if it's true of his recent play, I have not ran a search of any of his recent games so this is like, decade-old memory meta but yeah.

The best part of this line is that if you actually believed this, it's a point to why I'm NOT scum rather than a point to why I would be.

[ProHawk]

The newbie game that Prism linked to, you had a lot more gifs/pictures posted than this one

[ProHawk]

Lessssssgoooooooooo Cabd wagon

Not sure how I feel about the buddy-buddy point, I’ve seen similar interactions to Prism/Cabd come from 2 people who knew each other when one subbed in and they were T/T

Okay, I'll take that into consideration. What about buddying up AND supporting their scum read and vote?

[ProHawk]

The determining factor is going to be MegA and/or StrangeMatter

[ProHawk]

Top that also with Cabd not being willing to support him scum read with a vote late in the game.

[ProHawk]

His*

[ProHawk]

Cabd is coming in all kinds of buddy buddy hey guys remember this game and that let's use the history we have together to skew my reads... And if memory also serves right, he uses meta as scum to frame most arguments for mis-eliminations.

It's still dumb to me that he hasn't voted considering the time we have renaming.

VOTE: Cabd

Cabd explains that your retreat to "overly defensive" is a scum habit of yours. I may try to corroborate this later, but it looks like you think it should be a towntell.

If you can explain this satisfactorily I may swap.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about me *being* overly defensive/aggressive is a *general* habit of mine and that being conscious of that habit and *not* being overly defensive as a self-aware tactic is something that I do as scum which would be correct. I'm also pretty sure I wrote the post he quoted the bolded part is me quickly backing down and not engaging the "I was sniffing glue" part.

I get lynched ALL the time for my agro which is why I said it *should* be a town-tell for me, albeit one that would be easy to manipulate as scum, but not a smart play unless I can get people to town-read me for it, which is NOT this game as I have no history here with anyone except Cabd, but that happened way before he replaced in.

[ProHawk]

I was hoping you’d say something about the content that I post, reads that I make or even the tone of my post. Seems lazy to have such a simplistic approach.

Why does this post make it seem like you want me to catch you as scum? This is odd.

[ProHawk]

Dammit I was doing so good not using the "L" word ugh

[ProHawk]

No, scum is clearly stalling and at the moment is Cabd and Strange both are doing it. Cabd I know for sure knows better.

He may have been twisting how I play to fit that narrative but my representation of my play is the accurate representation as I know myself better than anyone.

I don't know how to help you Greeting, I'm not going to play to appease you.

[ProHawk]

Is it factual? Yes.

Did I say you were scum for it? No.

Like seriously, who cares?

[ProHawk]

Also, why in the world would I put in a huge amount of effort of you aren't even on my radar at the moment? If we're both still alive in a day or two and I need to reeval my reads then yes I'll give you all of the attention you want.

[ProHawk]

is cabd scum..?

This is a post

I am concerned at the low post count from Marci despite me sidelining her essentially based on her early posting.

[ProHawk]

Marci should be looked into tomorrow but I see no reason to elim her today tbh

Agree.

Cabd jumped on and STILL didn't vote anyone

[ProHawk]

Let me post a link to a game and then claim scum. Cool story bro.

[ProHawk]

Okay, so initial thoughts before I dive too much into the workings of today...

From my POV, I don't think that Prism projected much into making herself a night kill based on role-hunting although I have always been terrible at finding crumbs left behind so I could be wrong, but also her play also wasn't trying to avoid the limelight which usually comes from VT not power town. It's therefore my conjecture that she died because of being a strong town-voice which only scum-knew at the time.

That narrows down a suspect or potentially both to being those who had her as strong town-reads that would be difficult to sway from.

Strange

definitely had Prism as town based off a quick ISO which would fit that profile.

Meuh

actually fits that profile as well, a pretty solid town read on Prism the entire D1.

Marci

was kinda vague on her read of Prism, or anyone really to be honest from what I recall... She did mention thinking that Prism *might* be scum.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cape didn't really strongly town-read Prism, although towards the end she was on the higher end of their reads list. Also, if Cape wanted to push me as the elimination target today, he could have easily left Prism alive to help with that.

Greeting obviously wanted Prism to be eliminated...

Meg voted Prism

I'm going to try to work back over Greeting's wallreads and my read on marcistar today, so someone poke me if I don't do that by end of today.

Right now, ordered T->S, I'm at:

Meuh -> marcistar -> Cape90 -> Meg -> AsuStuckey -> StrangeMatter -> Greeting -> ProHawk

I also need to revisit why I think Meg's improved, and hoping for more from the Asus replacement

This also likely played a factor in the decision. Players towards the end of the reads list would have more motive than players towards the front. A combination of the the hypothesis matches most closely with

StrangeMatter

.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also know that both competing wagons D1 were town (you don't yet but likely will eventually). Which further fuels my theory that scum was stalling towards the end of the day. Cabd obviously flipped town, which left

StrangeMatter

.

I am going to start here for today:

VOTE: StrangeMatter

[ProHawk]

There is also the theory that I killed Prism in order to avoid that headache today, which is a completely valid hypothesis and would have absolutely considered it if I had been scum.

However, that would have made my fight more difficult today and not necessarily less as I would have to defend myself from that position, and well I will miss the back and forth with Prism even if it did get a bit heated, no hard feelings there at least on my end.

[ProHawk]

So, since

Titus

was Doctor, we have a Cop and a Roleblocker (A1) or Tracker and a Rolecop (B3) left. Then again, I'm not sure what to do with this information either.

I absolutely hated the last minutes of Day One, but

StrangeMatter

did vote in the end and admitted being very nervous (658). Not 100% sure that I'm buying it. But to be fair, if they weren't absent, they must have known that likely it was their vote that would decide the outcome of the game, so putting themselves out like this sounds like an illogical decision to make as scum. Or maybe that's really what happened and I just think they're more advanced than they actually are.

There's someone else that's been irking me.

MegAzumarill

has been visibly absent, both in terms of posting and in terms of content they produce, in the last few days and it really stands out for me in light of their constant activity in N2081. I feel like I wrote them off sooner than I should have.

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Who the F is Titus? I've heard this name before but it's been a looong time.

Why are you role-fishing?

Why MegA and not Marci? She's actually been laying REAL low. In terms of actual posts, she has 35, MegA has 80 or so...

[ProHawk]

why does it imply greeting but not imply prohawk

....

[ProHawk]

why wouldnt greeting let prism live another day so that she can continue tunneling prohawk..?
do u think prohawk x greeting or..?

This is why Cape is strong town for me... you on the other hand are pushing the issue which doesn't make you look so good.

[ProHawk]

one of my strong beliefs is that I want to give everyone the chance to actually play, and cabd wasn't given that chance.

Good news is Cabd was a late-game replacement in which we didn't get an extension and it was over a holiday... so I'm sure even he wasn't so broken up about it. If I am being candid, we ran off a newbie because we all wanted to overwhelm the thread (I may be a bit biased as I invited said newbie to play) neither here nor there though at this point.

[ProHawk]

Here's my new reads list based on how things have turned out thus far I think...

T - Cape90, Meuh, Greeting, MegAzumarill, Marci, StrangeMatter - S

I think Cape90 as scum would have absolutely left Prism alive, there are two scums so it's possible that his partner talked him into it or he just didn't care, but I think he's town even though he's wrong about me and whatever meta evidence he pulled up that I didn't have time to go sift through.

Meuh although had motive to kill Prism, I like her scum-hunting process this game, doesn't feel scummy to me.

Greeting has some strange posts, but overall I feel like he's trying to actively figure this game out. The i've been framed take the start of this game feels like it's coming from town more than scum to me.

I'm not super sure about MegAzu, I am starting to feel a bit of opportunism coming from that slot.

Marci skated through D1, had motive to kill Prism, has started to be more active today but is taking really strange pot-shots while sitting on the sidelines.

StrangeMatter, I've spoken a bit at length why they are at the bottom of my reads list. I had preferred them for Elim D1 over Cabd but didn't have any support there.

[ProHawk]

I think most of us have considered both those sides of the argument there

I'm most confident that you are town today...

Let's see some more meat from you please.

[ProHawk]

Why are we all trying to solve the game today? Let's just eliminate most likely to be scum and go from there??

[ProHawk]

Talk to me about Greeting, I am getting a lot of newb town feels from that slot.

I'm open to a marci elimination though.

[ProHawk]

so u have a motive to kill her?

Yes, pretty sure I already explained why, but it wasn't me.

Is Prism a Titus ALT?

[ProHawk]

whats pot shots mean here..?

"the chances of prohawk being town are low, but never 0"

":shifty: is cabd scum..?"

"whered u talk abt ur meg azumarill read..?

or did u not..

?"

"prohawk did u already say what u think of strangematter or no..?"

Examples of slinging mud from the sidelines. What I call pot-shots.

[ProHawk]

Talk to me about Greeting, I am getting a lot of newb town feels from that slot.

I'm open to a marci elimination though.

I swear I've spent half the game casing that slot.


Just do me a favor.
Read this

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

And I swear you won't be able to tell me it's the same Greeting.

It is night and day

I'll try to work on this meta-dive tonight.

[ProHawk]

FFS Titus is not in this game

[ProHawk]

And I guess post 731 confused me.

wut?

you were the one who called Prism Titus first, not me...

[ProHawk]

Let's not stall out here.
Let's get a general consensus with 2-3 IRL days on the calendar and not run down to the wire in case we need to make a change in decision *last mintue*

I have seen a lot of people throwing out StrangeMatter on their list of mafia candidates, why isn't there more of a push here?

[ProHawk]

Why do you keep trying to throw shade (that's what it feels like) onto people?

You're the only person I have mentioned, and yes, you are my top pick for scum so it would only be natural to call attention to you?

Maybe you could help me and give me a nice good reads list and reason why you still don't have a vote out (again)?

[ProHawk]

If you're paying attention to the game, why in the hell would you mistake Prism for Titus? Like where is that even a link? Even if you were playing a game with Titus somewhere else, where is that crossover? Honestly, re-reading MegAzumarill's posts and trying to figure out what he sees in scum-you I think I'm getting some of the same now.

Vote: Greeting

[ProHawk]

Let's not stall out here.
Let's get a general consensus with 2-3 IRL days on the calendar and not run down to the wire in case we need to make a change in decision *last mintue*

I have seen a lot of people throwing out StrangeMatter on their list of mafia candidates, why isn't there more of a push here?

Why do you keep trying to throw shade (that's what it feels like) onto people?

Because he knows your town and with this shade he is throwing at you, he believes that he can start a misvote on you through this message.

Oh I mean, if ProHawk is mafia that is :p

Would you like to engage with me, or just call me mafia all day without any balls to actually vote me?

[ProHawk]

Just do me a favor.
Read this

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

And I swear you won't be able to tell me it's the same Greeting.

It is night and day

Okay so I read this... at least his ISO. For me, I can see some differences, but nothing that stands to personally as what you call as "night and day".

Now, what I did find interesting is a sift through your ISO because of the comments you had made regarding your push on Greeting *NOT* being optimistic which was my impression at the start of the day because I didn't remember how much you were pushing him D1. You are quite correct in that it's probably the furthest from an optimistic push.

The part that really resonated with me was:

You were irreparable scum in their eyes and you knew it.
You would have to kill them at some point this game or you would lose. And each day their vote only grows stronger

and

Probably feared investigative prism? They would need to kill them at some point.

Prohawk Greeting makes a lot of sense if it's a tracker setup tbh.

[ProHawk]

If you're paying attention to the game, why in the hell would you mistake Prism for Titus? Like where is that even a link? Even if you were playing a game with Titus somewhere else, where is that crossover?

Because they're both female and, in my eyes, were senior figures and experienced players in their respective games.

Titus posts nothing like Prism from my experience

[ProHawk]

My list to eliminate today is:

MegAzumarill

,

ProHawk

and

StrangeMatter

in that order.

Maybe I just biased myself so hard into this, but I just cannot see

any

scum outside this pool.

Why not StrangeMatter first?

at the end of D1 you weren't willing to vote StrangeMatter at all. What changed?

[ProHawk]

pls im so confused werent u just confused abt who titus is and if titus and prism are the same people why are u talking about ur experiences now like this-

I was confused about WHY Titus was being mentioned in THIS game. I've played games with Titus, a few of them IIRC although it has been quite some time.

this is within the top 2 scummiest posts of all game sigh

I can do this too...

[ProHawk]

I don't have anything to add atm. I want to see how your partner reacts :p

Partner attacks the attacker for him.

[ProHawk]

Because of meta I have on them from N2082. Their play style seems to be a match to that game.

So scum can't match their playstyle?

You yourself said you've never seen scum-StrangeMatter... regardless, my views have now changed. It's between Marci and Strange at this point.

[ProHawk]

I don't have anything to add atm. I want to see how your partner reacts :p

Partner attacks the attacker for him.

What's the name of that?

Chainsaw?

[ProHawk]

I vote your scum buddy, you attack me for it. Why is that not a chainsaw? Like for reals...

[ProHawk]

why wouldnt greeting let prism live another day so that she can continue tunneling prohawk..?
do u think prohawk x greeting or..?

This is why Cape is strong town for me... you on the other hand are pushing the issue which doesn't make you look so good.

Hm.

I mean I guess. I still don't like you not really super acknowledging the whole meta argument I made against you, you mostly just were like, "oh I missed the thing at the time. Oh well, how rough for cape, can't backtrack and say anything about it now."

What exactly would you like me to say about it? Did I miss some question there? If you have your mind made up it's made up. It's wrong, but I can't convince you about it and you'll just have to find out for yourself. I would love it if you would vote somewhere... anywhere??

[ProHawk]

just elim me tbh, alot more people are wary of me than they are of greeting.
theres no way i would have a chance of doing well in the ~final stretch of the game~ if prohawk is left alive, along with the rest of u guyses lingering doubts.

If you're town, you honestly think me making it to endgame is better than you?

I'm pretty sure every person here has me in the lower tier category.

[ProHawk]

For one thing, I need people to stop trying to stick a gun to my head to vote, and I'm at the point of saying screw off, I'm doing what I think is best

You're new to Mafia right?

I'm going to say this as an experienced player, take it for what it's worth.

You've had an entire D1 which is what 8 or 9 irl days?

You've had 5 or 6 irl days in this phase?

If you wait until the last second to vote, you

1) Create a difficult time for players to analyze your motives (Scum love this as it's beneficial for them)

2) You create an atmosphere where the vote becomes rushed which has the potential of sussing out power town if the majority is wrong, and no time to divert
(This is ideal for scum)

3) Not everyone can be around for deadline so the players that physically can't be here to participate in the last second elimination decision will not be able to change votes (if needed) or participate in crucial end of day discussion if it's left to the last possible second.
(Also helpful for scum)

The point of this game is to eliminate scum (If you're town). The ONLY way to do this is to vote.

There's a reason why people are asking you to vote and make a choice, and it's all pro-town reasons. We aren't holding a gun to your head to rush you or force you into anything. We are asking you to help us catch scum in the most efficient way.

What you are doing is scummy at worst and anti-town at best.

How much time do you need to decide on who you want to vote?? You can have meaningful conversation with a vote out. You can have meaningful conversation when someone is at E-1 and there are TONS of valuable things to glean at how players react when someone is at E-1 and intent is declared and a claim happens.

Ideally, this should be done with 2-3 IRL days left on the clock. This is NOW.

[ProHawk]

Is this just Marci/Greeting? It may be

This is the direction I'm leaning ATM but I need to see Greetings flip first before going partner hunting...

[ProHawk]

Two scum?

[ProHawk]

Two scum?

At least one. It's is likely that both.

Tell me why MegAz is scum again

[ProHawk]

just elim me tbh, alot more people are wary of me than they are of greeting.
theres no way i would have a chance of doing well in the ~final stretch of the game~ if prohawk is left alive, along with the rest of u guyses lingering doubts.

If you're town, you honestly think me making it to endgame is better than you?

I'm pretty sure every person here has me in the lower tier category.

bestie ur still my fave xoxo its just ithink greeting shouldn't be the elim here. hes more helpful than me, so i would ratter i go if people were deciding on him :3

I don't think I've ever gotten the bestie title with shifty eyes before <3

I'm still baffled that you would rather elim yourself whom you know is town rather than eliminate an unknown despite how you read them (if you're town then Greeting IS an unknown to you)... Even the most solid town read still has a chance of flipping red.

[ProHawk]

Point is, I’m not sure if I can see ProHawk not be scum here considering his general position in the game if that makes any sense at all

The biggest piece that you're missing here is that we haven't seen scum flip so you're searching for associative connections based on the uninformed minorities positions.

It's okay if you have scum vibes from me, I tend to give them more so as town which I haven't been able to shake but I think that I just play overly aggro.

[ProHawk]

Why are you scared of E-1 if you're confident in your reads Meuh?

We have to get to E-1 and an intent to get a claim.

[ProHawk]

So let me rant here real quick.

This was the EXACT scenario that I was talking about when you wait until the LAST MINUTE to get an elimination on the books (at E-1) and get a claim. Had we gotten there two real life days earlier, we could have calmed TF down and made a GOOD choice to either get a counter claim OR force scum to eliminate the claimed town by NOT eliminating the CLAIMED COP. Absolutely terrible play from and Semi-Experienced players, the new players get a semi-pass but lesson learned (hopefully) for the future.

Guess what? I wasn't able to be around for the ensuing shit show that we decided to eliminate the town-cop THIS is why we don't wait until the last second.

[ProHawk]

My play doesn't even makes sense as scum

If I wanted to trade 1f1 with the cop I just cc
Instead you are saying I decided to try and get someone I knew was conf!town Limmed when if I failed I'm essentially outed and my team almost always autoloses.
Does that make sense to you?

CC you die next day.

Push a "He's a liar, I saw who *really* is the town cop, I know who you are so don't counter claim" and get him to be eliminated without a lie yourself and well you get to live another day and eliminate two confirmed town.

So no, your play makes perfect sense as scum because you avoid being caught in a lie with the same result.

I haven't decided who is *actual* scum here yet, still need to do some evaluating, but it's at best anti-town-play.

P-EDIT: Don't steal my thunder Meuh

[ProHawk]

My play doesn't even makes sense as scum

If I wanted to trade 1f1 with the cop I just cc
Instead you are saying I decided to try and get someone I knew was conf!town Limmed when if I failed I'm essentially outed and my team almost always autoloses.
Does that make sense to you?

CC you die next day.

Push a "He's a liar, I saw who *really* is the town cop, I know who you are so don't counter claim" and get him to be eliminated without a lie yourself and well you get to live another day and eliminate two confirmed town.

So no, your play makes perfect sense as scum because you avoid being caught in a lie with the same result.

I haven't decided who is *actual* scum here yet, still need to do some evaluating, but it's at best anti-town-play.

P-EDIT: Don't steal my thunder Meuh

Doesn't explain why I'd been basically setting up a 1f1 without having any way to tell Greeting is cop.

wut? The way you approached it you DIDN'T setup a 1f1

[ProHawk]

Cabd

[5]: Meuh,

Greeting

, ProHawk, MegAzumarill, StrangeMatter [HAMMER]
ProHawk [4]:

Prism

,

marcistar

, Cape90,

Cabd

not voting [0]:

Greeting

[4]: ProHawk, MegAzumarill,

Greeting

, Meuh [HAMMER]
MegAzumarill [1]:

marcistar

StrangeMatter [1]: Cape90

not voting [1]: StrangeMatter

Here are the two wagons...

I can't imagine us leading an all town wagon on Greeting, his self-vote did NOT help here.
I have a hard time seeing an all town-wagon on me D1 considering my alignment, but I suppose that could be possible.

MegAzu looks real bad here, although I don't get the StrangeMatter push.
I'm doubting my Cape read based on my D1 wagon, but I don't think that's a good alternative for today.

I'm oscillating between Strange and MegAzu I think...

[ProHawk]

My biggest concern is that I don't see anyone defending MegAzu...

Why would scum bus here in this scenario?

[ProHawk]

Limming an uncced cop claim?

VOTE: MegAzumarill

Come tf on man I should lim Mueh too for that

removing the bold tags from the vote so that the vote counter registers it correctly ~D

This probably means that one of the two are scum??

[ProHawk]

Yes, we decide between Cape and MegAzu today I suppose.

I REALLY wish we hadn't left StrangeMatter alive to endgame

[ProHawk]

My biggest concern is that I don't see anyone defending MegAzu...

Why would scum bus here in this scenario?

NVM

I think I figured it out.

[ProHawk]

My biggest concern is that I don't see anyone defending MegAzu...

Why would scum bus here in this scenario?

Cape’s busing Meg for towncred tomorrow!

That thought JUST popped into my head right when I posted before you

[ProHawk]

So my answer was:

Scum knows that MegAzu's play was insanely scum-motivated. In scum chat: "okay let's just start the bussing train for a 3p endgame win instead of go for a win today because town is likely going to vote you off anyway."

Cape did just that, not worrying at all about the consequences if they were both town.

Which one do you want to eliminate first?

[ProHawk]

Alright, I'm back.

I'm getting this awful vibe from MegAzumarill that's just manipulative like what Greeting said. There was just a whole lot of shade thrown towards Greeting not being cop throughout a lot yesterday, which to me just reeks of another (already stated) play I've seen from scum. I'm fine with this slot going today for sure.

Who were you going to vote for yesterday?

[ProHawk]

So my answer was:

Scum knows that MegAzu's play was insanely scum-motivated. In scum chat: "okay let's just start the bussing train for a 3p endgame win instead of go for a win today because town is likely going to vote you off anyway."

Cape did just that, not worrying at all about the consequences if they were both town.

Which one do you want to eliminate first?

Yeah Meg was the obvious elim today, so the best play for scum is to let him be elimed and try to make his other team member look as townie as possible so they can win on day 4.

Ah yes you should definitely help me bus then.

It's actually just cape/strange but we should never elim outside of cape/me today

Why Strange versus me or Meuh?

Strange is the low-hanging fruit.

[ProHawk]

LHF can absolutely be scum, BUT LHF are also people that scum constantly point to because its...... easy

[ProHawk]

Wake up sheeple I'm not bussing

Weren't you big on pairing teams last game day??

Who is the partner here if not you?

[ProHawk]

Cape looks like flailing scum keeping his options open in case he makes it to 3p LYLO

[ProHawk]

This is legit the most obvious choice ever and if y'all end up hanging me over obvscum over here. Never playing with y'all on MS ever again.

WTF is this AtE for?

[ProHawk]

Where was this gumption back in the beginning of the game Cape?

[ProHawk]

Why wouldn't Meg day 2 if they thought I was cop with a red check on strange just check strange?

They are scum. Why are you asking me this question?

[ProHawk]

So here's where I am at:

Cape is trying WAY too hard here when I am pretty much sure the majority of us are leaning on a MegAzu elimination.
Cape entered the day guns blazing, knowing it's 3v2 and that a wrong move would mean auto-lose. This is as big or bigger than the elim the claimed cop blunder.
Cape ended the day yesterday voting StrangeMatter, and is now treating them like confirmed town.
Cape when pushed had made a case on both myself and then a case on Meuh based off of them eliminating claimed cop.

StrangeMatter is guaranteed to make it to the next round if we get it right today. Cape also IMO is guaranteed. That leaves a pick from myself or Meuh.


--------------------

I am still waiting on Meuh's opinion on who first... unless I missed that answer.

[ProHawk]

Who did you have in mind?

MegAzu

I actually thought they were going to claim that they thought I was the one dropping cop crumbs...

[ProHawk]

A little benefit of the doubt would be nice

What benefit of the doubt?

[ProHawk]

That I did something stupid over just being scum.

There is scum-utility to your play here... not only do you get the real cop eliminated, but then you get to try to frame someone for trying to "fake cop".

Anywho did you ever quote the posts you thought were cop crumbs?

[ProHawk]

Sorry been busy, will get to see questions soon.

Interested in that answer to Meuhs question

[ProHawk]

I'm curious, how would you guys feel about a ProHawk lim?

Would also love for you.to vote me but you better watch the thread like a hawk....

[ProHawk]

I'm good with elimin Cape

[ProHawk]

No way that's town with all the waffling

[ProHawk]

Who else can't see that this scum-theater is just trying to setup the next game state?

Meuh while I admire your attempt to solve the game today, it's unnecessary and eliminating me is not a good idea considering only the percent chances of me actually flipping red based on probability alone. I was hoping that you were using the question to get a better read on the two that are on the chopping block today.

It's an easy trap to get stuck in associative connections before actually seeing flips.

Honestly, Cape looks 1000x scummier than MegAzu based on where I'm sitting and having him setup the next game state. He knows that the game is going to continue whether he dies or MegAzu does.

[ProHawk]

Who did you have in mind?

MegAzu

I actually thought they were going to claim that they thought I was the one dropping cop crumbs...

Why did you think Meg was gonna claim that?

I believe I made a post with a cop emoji but I'm on mobile so I'll have to see if I can go find it

[ProHawk]

I don't have anything to add atm. I want to see how your partner reacts :p

Partner attacks the attacker for him.

Found it. This was NOT a cop crumb though

[ProHawk]

Here's my ranking from most town to most scum...

ProHawk
marcistar
Meuh
Greeting
Cabd
MegAzumarill
Cape90
StrangeMatter
Prism Spartan117

Cabd isn't a real read but because of the lack of content he goes smack dab in the middle for now.

If we look at this post, though, I can 100% see scum!Prohawk post this readslist, putting your scum partner as slightly scummier than average is from what I've seen, the most common approach scum take to their reads on their partner

Based on what's happened so far I'm actually pretty proud of that first reads list.

[ProHawk]

I do have an entire case primed and ready about how me and Cape are not s/s.

If you want to see it we should lim cape.

I would like to see it. I'm leaning on a Cape elim

[ProHawk]

Shocker.

Shouldnt have to be said but don't throw out a vote unless you're scum and then have at it.

[ProHawk]

Spoiler: Look hey look ProHawk is probably just mafia

Where was this gumption back in the beginning of the game Cape?

Why wouldn't Meg day 2 if they thought I was cop with a red check on strange just check strange?

They are scum. Why are you asking me this question?

So here's where I am at:

Cape is trying WAY too hard here when I am pretty much sure the majority of us are leaning on a MegAzu elimination.
Cape entered the day guns blazing, knowing it's 3v2 and that a wrong move would mean auto-lose. This is as big or bigger than the elim the claimed cop blunder.
Cape ended the day yesterday voting StrangeMatter, and is now treating them like confirmed town.
Cape when pushed had made a case on both myself and then a case on Meuh based off of them eliminating claimed cop.

StrangeMatter is guaranteed to make it to the next round if we get it right today. Cape also IMO is guaranteed. That leaves a pick from myself or Meuh.


--------------------

I am still waiting on Meuh's opinion on who first... unless I missed that answer.

LHF can absolutely be scum, BUT LHF are also people that scum constantly point to because its...... easy

Wake up sheeple I'm not bussing

Weren't you big on pairing teams last game day??

Who is the partner here if not you?

Cape looks like flailing scum keeping his options open in case he makes it to 3p LYLO

This is legit the most obvious choice ever and if y'all end up hanging me over obvscum over here. Never playing with y'all on MS ever again.

WTF is this AtE for?

My biggest concern is that I don't see anyone defending MegAzu...

Why would scum bus here in this scenario?

Cape’s busing Meg for towncred tomorrow!

That thought JUST popped into my head right when I posted before you

So my answer was:

Scum knows that MegAzu's play was insanely scum-motivated. In scum chat: "okay let's just start the bussing train for a 3p endgame win instead of go for a win today because town is likely going to vote you off anyway."

Cape did just that, not worrying at all about the consequences if they were both town.

Which one do you want to eliminate first?

I mean this is exactly how I would expect scum to play endgame like.

I don't see how it isn't just ProHawk here unless Strange has just been just sitting in the background and doing nothing this whole time as scum lol

Did you ever say why you straight out of the gate voted MegAzu?

Can you point to evidence as to why you thought without a shadow of a doubt that MegAzu was scum?

[ProHawk]

Dear StrangeMatter,

Please please please please be more active today.

I have been reading past games of yours and from what I have seen haven't been reticent to vote people, yet this game you just plain aren't participating and it's throwing me for a loop.

I need to know where your thoughts are on the game-state.

[ProHawk]

I don't see how it isn't just ProHawk here unless Strange has just been just sitting in the background and doing nothing this whole time as scum lol

Are you going to put any effort here or no?

[ProHawk]

Bahaha nice job cape rofl.

Maybe put in a little more effort next time.

[ProHawk]

Bahaha nice job cape rofl.

Maybe put in a little more effort next time.

I don't think this is fair. Cape did not take the full time in Elo but it is clear how much time and effort he put into the game. Sometimes, you unfortunately know when you will not switch, and it is best to just get the job done with so you can spend time debating what matters (the 1v1) or lose if you're wrong. I would encourage looking back at Day 3.

I disagree. He voted out of the gate, without thinking for Meg when if Meg had been town, we would have lost.

He didn't re evaluate the game state and just kept his conf-bias the entire game

Just my two cents. I tried to get him to focus and think but he wanted none of it...

[ProHawk]

While I wanted to take the time to own up to my own failures, which are what matter most to me, I really don't like this.

You spent all of Day 1 forgetting your own arguments, shifting the goalposts without realizing it, and refused to do the most trivial meta check when I laid out all of the links for you. I felt very resentful even when I found out you were town; I felt you put the onus on me in an incredibly difficult way to go above and beyond in looking into your mind. Our mutual fight and failure to communicate our intentions was ruthlessly exploited by both members of the scumteam Day 1. This is looking past the Greeting Day 2, and Meg correctly chose to set you up for that exact battle by selfhammering and denying you the chance.

Both you and I were exploited and punished every step of the way by the scumteam, even more than Cape was.

Yes TvT fights tend to support the scum team heavily.

I still don't know what you're going on about meta for.

[ProHawk]

It was a good game. My playstyle makes it difficult to not scum-read me, I still haven't really learned how to buck it.

Thanks for playing!

[ProHawk]

I think there are a lot of takeaways from the nitty gritty of our fight, but I think we can skip them and focus on the bigger picture. I think the biggest miss was on Cape Day 2, the push that they were bussing really didn't make a lot of sense I think. Forcing the vote in 5 way ELO is generally just a bad play, throwing it away for free, and I think taking it one at a time (same issue was Cape) probably would have gone further. Pushing Meg as scum but not just...voting Meg, instead being very open to voting Cape "because they're bussing Meg", made it look like you were the one bussing.

Agreed.

MegAzu did a good job of shifting my focus. Thank you for the feedback.