Open 837: Cop Killer - Endgame

[T3]

iugfff

[T3]

When I type in A50, my phone suggests that I type “A50 and then my autocorrect doesn’t have a problem with your attitude and barb is going to be a good person and barb and I’m not sure if I can have a problem with your phone”

[T3]

This is A50 in his pure town form.

[T3]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salsabil Faria

was buddying in the queue

Why did you unvote Enchant here, mc?

isn't that like... rvs and all?

[T3]

Why not vote me then?

VOTE: guiltyline

[T3]

Aight, mech stuff:


A50 gets all hammers. He should check to make sure NM is around when doing so to prevent scum from twilight strategizing.

We should policy eliminate all posts that look like attempts at coordinating nightkills, even very obvious joke ones, because letting the scum talk to each other puts us at a severe disadvantage.

A50 should say who he’s going to target each night so long as the doc remains hidden for the purposes of WIFOM protection.

Doc claims should be left alive in all circumstances. If they’re fake, the real doc will probably shoot them. If they’re real the scum won’t shoot them because of the possibility of the real doc shooting them (neither team will know if it’s a real or fakeclaim) and we should be able to work backwards from number of kills to determine whether they were real or not.

when you said "he should wait until nm is around" i got confused for like 10 seconds

[T3]

I forgot this game existed

[T3]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salsabil Faria

was buddying in the queue

Why did you unvote Enchant here, mc?

isn't that like... rvs and all?

I wanted to hear mc explain in their own words because every other post of theirs has been really over-explainy and I'm trying to get a sense of their personality

LQ is feeling WILDLY different than I remember from town him

[T3]

All this discussion because I misclicked the Q+ button huh

[T3]

town lq
sorts people, actively scumhunts, makes walls
scum lq
just says his reads on people, one liners
VOTE: lq
thank you for coming to my ted talk

[T3]

i don't know what i'm doing

[T3]

I'm going to reread because my head is completely empty

[T3]

im pretty sure t3 is talking about guiltylion, seeing as that's who he quoted and that's where his vote is.

I wouldn’t be surprised if T3 mixed GL and LQ.

aaah this actually makes those T3 posts make a lot more sense.

I'm definitely playing more aggro so far than I did in Situation Room (my only game I had with T3 I think), so I can buy town!T3 making that read. Situation Room was a completely different situation tho, initial one being that I was overgamed at the start of Situation Room so D1 I had to sit back for a lot of the early part of it

ive only ever seen the self-vote reaction test used by town. i could guess at reasons for this (mafia not wanting to draw attention to themself, mafia not wanting to do something daft that gets them policy-eliminated, the fact that moving the game out of rvs benefits town), but the theory behind it is far less relevant to me (because i think it's bad and shouldnt happen regardless) than what ive tended to observe.

I hate to shoot your theory down, but I have witnessed scum self-voting in RVS, and it was to avoid alienating others early. IIRC they said it was because they "didn't know whom to vote".

So far I have but only one TR, and it's not even that strong, so I'll let you all play it out a little and see where it gets us

Was that player a newb?

[T3]

Don’t say that. I didn’t fully read the player list and thought I accidentally posted in a game I shouldn’t be in.

I feel like scum would be a little bit more conscious of the fact that they are playing in a game so weak townpoints for this

[T3]

Actually, Bingle, why should A50 claim with there being a CPR doc? Shouldn’t the doc only have one person to worry about saving (A50).

Not to mention if it’s so that way we have an idea of who to hold responsible in the event of A50 dying, couldn’t that also be used against us?

This kind of thing is definitely something that would come up in the scum pt.

[T3]

It doesn't read like a fake dumbtell so I'll townbin DArby for now.

[T3]

It doesn't read like a fake dumbtell so I'll townbin DArby for now.

I really need to stop having my town tell be Im too clueless to know what’s going on lol.

town

[T3]

All this discussion because I misclicked the Q+ button huh

*Sigh*

As I said, I didn't even read the exchange, but if you caused this then I think I'd have to ground you.

VOTE: T3

gl was confused because i accidentally quoted his post

[T3]

idk

[T3]

VOTE: salsa
Salsa feels EXTREMELY different to how I remember town her.
There’s less emotion and content.

[T3]

you randomly moved your vote to a lurker after expressing interest in a wagon that you [apparently?] dont actually feel good about.

VOTE: salsa

[T3]

VOTE: salsa
Salsa feels EXTREMELY different to how I remember town her.
There’s less emotion and content.

you randomly moved your vote to a lurker after expressing interest in a wagon that you [apparently?] dont actually feel good about.

VOTE: salsa

Rolled scum?

Hi why is me forgetting who I voted scummy

[T3]

VOTE: salsa
Salsa feels EXTREMELY different to how I remember town her.
There’s less emotion and content.

you randomly moved your vote to a lurker after expressing interest in a wagon that you [apparently?] dont actually feel good about.

VOTE: salsa

Rolled scum?

Hi why is me forgetting who I voted scummy

Forgets between *some minutes*? I don’t think so... Your eagerness of voting me is scummy.

Kekw

[T3]

For T3

Spoiler:

This is A50 in his pure town form.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Salsabil Faria

was buddying in the queue

Why did you unvote Enchant here, mc?

isn't that like... rvs and all?

I wanted to hear mc explain in their own words because every other post of theirs has been really over-explainy and I'm trying to get a sense of their personality

LQ is feeling WILDLY different than I remember from town him

town lq
sorts people, actively scumhunts, makes walls
scum lq
just says his reads on people, one liners
VOTE: lq
thank you for coming to my ted talk

Don’t say that. I didn’t fully read the player list and thought I accidentally posted in a game I shouldn’t be in.

I feel like scum would be a little bit more conscious of the fact that they are playing in a game so weak townpoints for this

It doesn't read like a fake dumbtell so I'll townbin DArby for now.

VOTE: salsa
Salsa feels EXTREMELY different to how I remember town her.
There’s less emotion and content.

you randomly moved your vote to a lurker after expressing interest in a wagon that you [apparently?] dont actually feel good about.

VOTE: salsa

All of your scum reads are meta based except for your second vote on Salsa. 1) Are you sure you're not confbiasing with Salsa? 2) if you had no meta on these players, would you be scum reading them?

You did give a town read to DArby that wasn't based on meta, in fact you gave two town reads to DArby that weren't based on meta. Do you town read anyone else? I'm not counting A50 here.

I have absolutely no idea. I'm very disengaged.

[T3]

If I had no meta on LQ, I wouldn't. Also, I think my meta on LQ might be wrong.
I would be scumreading Salsa.

[T3]

Enchant also hasn't been doing anything, so some town points. I think scum Enchant would be more proactive.

[T3]

blegh practically all my reads this game are based on meta

[T3]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=35064
this was enchant's iso in baton
it's equally barren

[T3]

nvm he has an even more barren ISO in Open 828 (scum game) https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=35064

[T3]

I feel bored, so I may decide to actually play this game seriously. (Sorry for those this may disappoint)

OK..

First "Dictatorian" Declaration:

I; King of thread and ruler of both Town & Mafia alike; have decided in all my mighty grace to

request

order all of my subjects and minions to each provide a 3-players list of their top TRs (NOT including self).

- You have 24 hours to comply.
- Once submitted you cannot alter your choices.

In no particular order:

Pav

Bingle/LQ

GL

@Enchant

, what's up?

Everything cool.

How you?

Tired af irl, kind of lost in this game.

By inspiring from

LQ

's point:

UNVOTE: Enchant

VOTE: Roden

you're just trying to save yourself.
i'll be honest i haven't even noticed that roden was being cased

[T3]

i'll be honest i haven't even noticed that roden was being cased

Yes, I'm trying to save myself here, why it is a scummy thing to do?

If you're suggesting scum!me trying to save myself here by miseliminating town!

Town

, can you tell me why you townread

Roden

? Cause I can't remember of you saying that.

And I'm voting

Roden

because I like this point of

LQ

's which didn't came to my mind and I also see scums to do that:

But at this point my SR on Roden grew stronger when they ditched the thread which I am reading as them doing so so that the votes start to fall off them.

i'll be honest i haven't even noticed that roden was being cased

Hmm... I think you rolled scum but I can't prove because it's based on vibe.

You aren’t scumhunting and I get terrible vibes every time you post

[T3]

Salsabil Faria (3)-

T3, mc esther, Pavowski,

Bingle, Almost50, Galron

(E-1)

Edited by me...

I won’t be surprised if all 4 scums are voting me

Town salsa would 100% self hammer here

[T3]

I have no reads why do I have no reads
Except that salsa is scum
Maybe a weak tr on auto because vibes but I might be pulling this out of my ass

[T3]

Enchant hammer salsa
Do it

[T3]

I hate this game.

[T3]

Enchant hammer salsa
Do it

I hate this game.

Can you explain why you wanted Salsa out so badly?

I thought she was scum. She seemed off.

[T3]

Also basically every time I’ve seen town salsa run up she’s either self hammered or replaced out.

[T3]

OKAY LET'S EFFORT THIS GAME

[T3]

Also basically every time I’ve seen town salsa run up she’s either self hammered or replaced out.

What'd you make of Salsa threatening the self right before I unvoted?

[T3]

i think basically everyone's established this, but to be explicit so that nobody suggests anything daft later (and also to get auro's thoughts): pavowski's town. there was literally no reason for him to signal for a kill on guiltylion, guiltylion was townreading him all day; and the observation that scum would be too paranoid to make that sort of comment if not as an intentional signal rings pretty true. while start-of-day speculation on the night targets was a pretty bad idea, i think it makes a lot more sense from "townie with weird hang-ups about night" than "scum who went straight for the same speculation that had him under suspicion day one".

unless every single leading wagon was on town

i wouldnt dismiss this possibility lol. like, the literal majority of the playerlist (myself adamantly included) believed that both you and salsa were likely scum, day one was lowkey a bit of a clusterfuck.

VOTE: enchant

seeing as apparently your votes dont require any further comment

I don't know what happened but I agree with the statement at the top.

[T3]

But does scum!T3 forget he voted for Salsa an hour earlier?

It's NAI.

[T3]

Auro, join me on T3?

let's not

[T3]

So either everyone targeted A50 or only Team Fire did

and somebody else got doc's and frozen

, right?

Seems more likely monkey got tripled up

I don't think this can have a drawback for asking publicly given how obvious a question it is, so:

@mod: Are death flavors indicative of who made the kill? If they are, what are the specific flavors for a Fire Kill, an Ice Kill, a Doc Kill, and an all three kill?

NM should be able (have to actually) answer that because this is an open.

Yes death flavours are indicative. Ice Mafia is

Frozen

, Fire Mafia is

Incinerated

and a CPR Doc kill is

Shocked

. If all three were to target a player, the fire and ice mafia kills would cancel out and the CPR Doc would kill the player. I will add this to the rules section.

Pav - how did you know the Ice Team's flavor was "frozen" specifically? I don't recall seeing that anywhere prior to N_M editing the posts.

I believe it was in the setup thread but I might be wrong.

[T3]

VC 2.01

Galron (0)-

Enchant (2)-

mc esther, DArby

Pavowski (0)-

Roden (0)-

Bingle (0)-

LicketyQuickety (2)-

Roden, Enchant

GuiltyLion (0)-

DArby (0)-

Auro (0)-

mc esther (0)-

T3 (4)-

Bingle, Galron, LicketyQuickety, Auro

(E-2)

Not Voting (3)-

Pavowski, GuiltyLion, T3

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-14 19:00:00)

- Dec 14th 19:00 GMT

I'd appreciate it if I Wasn't Hammered
esp because i've been gone for the entire day and most of yesterday

[T3]

VOTE: Bingle

Let's try something spicy.

LQ:

*Tries to start a Galron wagon*

*complains nobody wants to vote Galron*

*scumreads Bingle for jumping on the Galron wagon*

*votes Bingle*

This is bizarre behavior

I kind of get his reasoning.

[T3]

VOTE: Bingle

Let's try something spicy.

LQ:

*Tries to start a Galron wagon*

*complains nobody wants to vote Galron*

*scumreads Bingle for jumping on the Galron wagon*

*votes Bingle*

This is bizarre behavior

I kind of get his reasoning.

I mean I *get* his reasoning too, but that doesn't mean it's good reasoning

Do you think Bingle is scum for jumping in there with a Galron vote?

No.

[T3]

Forgive me if I don't sheep you on this one.

My heart, she breaks.

This sort of reads like SvS behavior, but I'm not doing that this game.

Hard disagree. That strongly seemed like not s/s behavior

[T3]

a bit more detached with it

I perceive this game very differently to the rest due to multi-ball and high killing power, so while I'm following the game I'm not too bothered with

immediately nailing scum

.

Are you talking about to the rest of the plist or games or what? I get the high-powered killing thing but not sure how that fits with what you're saying.

To other games. In a vanilla game with a single scum faction I'd prolly be tryharding while I'm alive.

I buy this.

[T3]

T3 because he doesn't metabad as scum

Just realized this could be interpreted as mean-spirited. What I meant is that town!T3 uses meta and is fallible. Scum!T3 really just TMI's when he meta reads someone because he almost always meta reads townies as town to get town cred for himself. The one time I've seen him meta read somebody as scum, it was his scum buddy lol. When scum!T3 pushes somebody as a scum read and they're a townie it's almost never a meta read.

This is just my own analysis of his playstyle though, it isn't 100% accurate. But I can usually at the very least trust his town reads no matter his alignment.

^true

[T3]

VOTE: enchant
I don’t want to vote LQ today.

[T3]

UNVOTE: lq
Uh

[T3]

UNVOTE: enchant
Oops

[T3]

t3, the lack of lickety vote means you believe lickety is town?

Yeah
I think the reasons for wagoning him are dumb

[T3]

He’s trying to pick fights and has weird reasoning.

[T3]

VC 2.01

Galron (0)-

Enchant (2)-

mc esther, DArby

Pavowski (0)-

Roden (0)-

Bingle (0)-

LicketyQuickety (2)-

Roden, Enchant

GuiltyLion (0)-

DArby (0)-

Auro (0)-

mc esther (0)-

T3 (4)-

Bingle, Galron, LicketyQuickety, Auro

(E-2)

Not Voting (3)-

Pavowski, GuiltyLion, T3

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-14 19:00:00)

- Dec 14th 19:00 GMT

I'd appreciate it if I Wasn't Hammered
esp because i've been gone for the entire day and most of yesterday

That's normal for you, though?

?

[T3]

Yeah, that’s fair.
I was annoyed because I was being wagoned

[T3]

I like Galron's 899 idk why

[T3]

I hate having to rely on meta. It's one of the reasons that color/shape theme game was fun, but if Enchant is disliking T3 bc of all of the meta reads T3 has, I have to jump in a bit to defend T3 because I've seen that a lot from him, and I don't think he's to the point where he's able to replicate that as scum.

I’m really just having a hard time forming any reads any other way this game.

[T3]

I'd like to see T3's response to LQ's thoughts on his ISO

my thoughts can be summed up in 2 words: VOTE: lq

[T3]

i never townread him
i just didn't want to vote him

[T3]

vla 3 days, possibly until friday/b]
gotta study for my calc final

[T3]

esther, can you please report your case on me because i genuinely can't find it when skimming through your iso

[T3]

oh, yeah okay, "must eliminate fire" makes this more difficult.

i still maintain that by association, looker is the most likely lickety partner; but im a bit anxious about making that as a definite call, t3 could have easily been bussing.

yeah,

i could

but is it likely?

[T3]

how is that post scummy?

[T3]

how is that post scummy?

In what universe do you think "yeah I could have bussed but is it likely" is a townie thing to say? You're practically daring us to scum read you. Why would your only defense be that it isn't likely that you bussed? Especially when you aren't even giving actual reasons for why you wouldn't have bussed there.

.-.
It's not really my scum playstyle to bus in a situation where I don't have to for gamestate/read reasons (mbos 13).

[T3]

I worded that badly.
Scum me probably soft defends LQ until he's flipped. Scum me usually busses only when forced to because I'm widely townread and need to keep the image up. (Mbos 13, Hanahaki, WNT)

[T3]

MBOS 13 I was sitting around lean town in nearly everyone's readlist. I had two widely scumread deadweight partners who I kept shielding until I had to bus both of them in ELO or I would go down after them.
Hanhaki, both of my partners scumclaimed for idiotic reasons Day 2 and Day 3, I was widely townread. I deathbussed both of them and endgamed.
WNT I was widely townread. I hard bussed my deadweight partner Day 2 or else it would look slightly suspicious for me.
Those are the 3 examples I can think of off the top of my head.

[T3]

esther, can you please report your case on me because i genuinely can't find it when skimming through your iso

it doesnt really matter because you cant talk me out of it, but it's the d2 post-hammer interaction where i quoted your townread on lickety.

\-_-/
i was bored of the day
his ost on me was bad

[T3]

how is that post scummy?

In what universe do you think "yeah I could have bussed but is it likely" is a townie thing to say? You're practically daring us to scum read you. Why would your only defense be that it isn't likely that you bussed? Especially when you aren't even giving actual reasons for why you wouldn't have bussed there.

.-.
It's not really my scum playstyle to bus in a situation where I don't have to for gamestate/read reasons (mbos 13).

I worded that badly.
Scum me probably soft defends LQ until he's flipped. Scum me usually busses only when forced to because I'm widely townread and need to keep the image up. (Mbos 13, Hanahaki, WNT)

MBOS 13 I was sitting around lean town in nearly everyone's readlist. I had two widely scumread deadweight partners who I kept shielding until I had to bus both of them in ELO or I would go down after them.
Hanhaki, both of my partners scumclaimed for idiotic reasons Day 2 and Day 3, I was widely townread. I deathbussed both of them and endgamed.
WNT I was widely townread. I hard bussed my deadweight partner Day 2 or else it would look slightly suspicious for me.
Those are the 3 examples I can think of off the top of my head.

Ok, I can believe this. I still think you could be Ice Mafia but you're likely not Fire Mafia.

Who do you think is LQ's partner? Consensus seems to be Bingle/Looker but the sudden drop in game activity is concerning.

I'm not sure. I'll read LQ's iso ~soon.
The drop in game activity is probably because 3 people died. The main person I would want to look at here is Auro. From what I remember, he was posting quite a bit Day 2 but has since dropped off.

[T3]

A50 how does it feel to be unvotable today? What a treat it must be

You can get hecked for stealing the first pagetop

When I type in A50, my phone suggests that I type “A50 and then my autocorrect doesn’t have a problem with your attitude and barb is going to be a good person and barb and I’m not sure if I can have a problem with your phone”

Obvious scumclaim is obvious

Are you guys like... Seriously arguing about A50's alignment?

You're not, right?

The only sarcasm I understand is my own

Pav really is lacking spice in his posts. Played with them in a newbie a bit ago and their posts there were quite a bit better than here. These posts seem dry and unimaginitive. I also couldn't help but see a buddy attempt of the IC.

VOTE: Pav

antipartner points
I don't think scum would bus this way right out of the gate.

[T3]

I don't think LQ having weird takes is particularly scummy.

Can confirm.

Town:
Roden
mc esther - Townie sounding points.
Guilty Lion - Not seeing GL as Scum here. Their push on Roden looks bad in retrospect, but I'm guilty of the same thing.

Town Lean:
Bingle - Good thoughts, feel like he's actually trying to sort me.
DArby - Probably Town, but there was something that was bugging me about them near EoD. Would have to look and try and figure it out. Town Lean.

Null:
Enchant - IDK, higher activity? That's probably NAI
Pavowski - Null. Why are People TRing Pav? Is it based on pre-flip or what?
Auro - Having doubts here since I'm probably TRing Bingle and GL more at this point.
T3 - Don't really feel anything here.

Scum Lean:
Galron - I guess I have to have a Scum Lean somewhere. And I didn't really like that the were stiff at the SoD 1. Someone else made that comment and I went back to look and I can definitely see it. Their reaction to it was bad too.

VOTE: Galron

VOTE: Bingle

Let's try something spicy.

You not already being on the T3 wagon is a disappointment, tbh.

I was wondering specifically whether you would hop right back on Galron if someone else joined or if you'd stay with the wagon with more steam.

LOL, even Bingle can derp.

look at this dude

[T3]

> Bingle is town
> It's D2 why don't I vote a townread without explanation and then not interact with them

[T3]

Uh random idea, I think we can technically stop twilight coordination for the night kills if Looker is wrong. If everyone claims scum and a random NK target, the real scum teams won't know who's actually scum and town. Basically to try to drown out coordination with WIFOM on who's true claiming scum and who's gambitting as town, to try to get scum to accidentally target each other or target the same slot to cancel the kill. Idk, it's a weird idea but it's better than hoping we can hammer and get an immediate thread lock from NM.

Does anyone think this is a bad idea?

ooh, that could work.

[T3]

intent to vote looker

[T3]

VOTE: looker
t3 approves

[T3]

i killed auro because he was most likely to be vt

[T3]

it's 50% for a nolim
i'll shoot pav

[T3]

VOTE: nolim
pavlov you have been informed of your impending death

[T3]

IM SO CONFUSED

[T3]

I wasnt trying to solo

[T3]

wtf was my thought process in killing esther??????d

[T3]

oh my GOD
i thought she was forced to kill in the night for some reason so i decided that if esther shot me i wouldn't let her win i completely missed that she was going to nkill AHHHHH