Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I finally rolled scum in a dance game guys

Are you proud of me?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Oh my

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Just ftr

Every difficult endgame I've ever seen town have has been a result of bad leaves

So don't leave unless you're going to be flipped anyways

Ty

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Okay let me know when you all want to play the game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Just ftr

Every difficult endgame I've ever seen town have has been a result of bad leaves

So don't leave unless you're going to be flipped anyways

Ty

would u dance with me knowing my propensity to leave

You try literally every time

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Is it me?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

alyssa i will make this dance request juicy for u.
for limited time offer if u accept. i will grant u one iso a week with detailed analysis provided by me. What value. What wow.
So nice, so impactful. Who could say no to that.

I can't even imagine you doing this

That's tempting just so I can see what that looks like

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Yeah I don't want an IC partner

That's like every level of bad possible

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'd rather partner with a null read

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Yeah I don't want an IC partner

That's like every level of bad possible

I'm also not sure about this

I wouldn't mind an IC partner. It definitely has anti-town utility in that it means you personally can't use your hood ability to sort and I guess in some sense it might be good to force scum to pair with IC so it becomes weird when they don't NK themselves, but scum could easily leverage that for WIFOM if Taly gets paired with a limbaity town slot and there'd be fun in having a conftown to hydra with.

I'm not sure what's best play around the IC in terms of who we should try to set up there but "every level of bad possible" feels exaggerated in a LAMISTy way

Ftr that's specific to me

It doesn't apply to anybody else in this game I don't think

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Man being scum is so easy, everybody just ignores you

It's great

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Okay legit I'll probably just fuck off until I'm not at work so I can actually start getting reads on people

[Alyssa The Lamb]

alyssa my offer will probably expire by the time ur off work

I take my choice in partners seriously enough that it wouldn't have ever worked regardless

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Taly is scum

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Taly is scum

so are u bae

Glad to see you're catching on

[Alyssa The Lamb]

You should find a partner that enables how you play the best

So that really depends

[Alyssa The Lamb]

You should find a partner that enables how you play the best

So that really depends

I'm also assuming that town gets zero say in all the flips before intermission on this btw

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Aggregate town, not individual town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I will partner with you if you really believe that we should

But legit I function better when I can use the neighborhood to get a read on my partner and we're never surviving past intermission in any circumstance if we do pair

And I'm very worried with this playerlist that town will waste all our flips before intermission so our impact will be more muted than it could otherwise be

[Alyssa The Lamb]

You could say I'm being really selfish about wanting to be alive during second dance

[Alyssa The Lamb]

You should find a partner that enables how you play the best

So that really depends

I'm also assuming that town gets zero say in all the flips before intermission on this btw

I think it's more or less optimal to skip first dance

What

[Alyssa The Lamb]

what crossed your mind when you guys first saw this post?

Taly is aligned with

Town

.

Thank fuck I don't have to try to read you

[Alyssa The Lamb]

what crossed your mind when you guys first saw this post?

Taly is aligned with

Town

.

Thank fuck I don't have to try to read you

whats so difficult about reading me?

I've always found you impossible to read

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I honestly don't know who I want to pair with atm

[Alyssa The Lamb]

RH9 seems okay

[Alyssa The Lamb]

RH9 seems okay

uh. how.

How what

[Alyssa The Lamb]

RH9 seems okay

uh. how.

How what

how is anything he posted remotely close to being "okay"

He seems okay as a dance partner

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Man being scum is so easy, everybody just ignores you

It's great

hi there

hi there

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Here's why.

Cabd is very good in a PT, Taly mostly uses them. So town Cabd will rock out for a day do some work and die..
Scum Cabd on the other hand is locked into a terrible postion and will need to make another member of his team actually good enough to carry.

Which... Maybe is possible maybe isn't.

But I see win-win here

I'm actually fine with this

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Here's why.

Cabd is very good in a PT, Taly mostly uses them. So town Cabd will rock out for a day do some work and die..
Scum Cabd on the other hand is locked into a terrible postion and will need to make another member of his team actually good enough to carry.

Which... Maybe is possible maybe isn't.

But I see win-win here

I'm actually fine with this

Doesn’t this just ensure taly death if cabd is town

Taly dies with most players as town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Man being scum is so easy, everybody just ignores you

It's great

hi there

hi there

Wanna head down to the soda shop?

I haven't decided if I want to consider settling down yet

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Who do you want Taly to pair with then

[Alyssa The Lamb]

im serious if you are comfortable digressing, i want to hear what makes me hard to read

aly

Idk I just can't really tell the difference

I can't get confident reads on you

[Alyssa The Lamb]

hi I'm off work

is anything fun happening

[Alyssa The Lamb]

pog I'm getting scumreads

[Alyssa The Lamb]

now that multiple people are actively scumreading me, am I confirmed town yet?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

that's fine I'm not ready to settle into a definite partner yet

[Alyssa The Lamb]

and that's one pairing that isn't seeing intermission

[Alyssa The Lamb]

that's not me scumreading them

that's me firebringer reading them

[Alyssa The Lamb]

The more I ponder the format the more I think this setup is ill-suited for me, who is almost viciously impersonal and, while cooperative/multilateralist, insists on it being the whole game over a single partner.

I was honestly wondering why you signed up when you said that you don't really do PTs

[Alyssa The Lamb]

why are people scumreading

aly

my ego needs to hear this

[Alyssa The Lamb]

legit though

I feel like 90% of the posts in general aren't really indicative of anything, even those that are more serious

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think the game will continue to be mostly stuck until more pairings happen and the amount of people any one person can pair with starts to decrease

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Man

The lady pool is way more enticing for pairing partners than the gents

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Depends on what you're looking for

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Making scum shit themselves like every town game

How can I increase my threat level as much as possible

LLD or Cabd

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Here's a spicier question Taly

Who do you think will be my best partner from the gents

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm outright refusing to pair with Prism if they're dead serious about not using the PT

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I want an active PT preferably

for you or me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

yeah, an active PT is good

I don't remember every dance game I played, but the one where I struggled the most was the one where my partner literally refused to interact with me in a PT

they were also scum

[Alyssa The Lamb]

yeah I sleep too

good night

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I somehow slept for 9 hours and feel just as tired as I was before I went to bed

it's a superpower

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Dancing with catboi seems like it would be really similar to dancing with mariar

Sounds like a fun challenge

[Alyssa The Lamb]

LLD's

eye is critical, without looking at meta, it seems to be an aggressive solving style. Yeah, solving, I don't think she is scum unless someone within

{Cabd/2 other people I thought of last night but forgot}

Andante

feels like limbait but I did not like 629 because it did not address

LLD's

questions that I also wanted answers to.

Not that I'm worried about solving her alignment I'm pretty confident

Fire

lol leaves most of this plist.

Wait is it even sound to call anyone limbait in this setup? Mmm.

Me sad I've probably townread scum already yzvaoausuajskfiej

I don't think LLD has left her scumrange at all.

I simultaneously don't believe it's very worth sorting her for certain entirely on her own play unless you know how she plays pretty well in general, which I'm not sure is a thing in this playerlist.

I'm personally planning on sorting her indirectly rather than directly regardless

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Nice, I think I have a hard scum read already

And no it's not Firebringer

I also don't think it's useful to out immediately

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Nice, I think I have a hard scum read already

And no it's not Firebringer

I also don't think it's useful to out immediately

How would you feel if I asked you to dance right now

I'd consider it but I wouldn't accept immediately

[Alyssa The Lamb]

does anyone even want to dance with me or am i getting sloppy eighths

Who do you want?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Alyssa, you alluded to one point to "That player was scum also" in regard to refusing to refusing to use a PT. Contextually it was ambiguous when I read it, on the surface it implied I was scum for it, but I realized "also" might just be a lead-in.

Do you feel I should be left out given this stance?

Those two thoughts were unrelated

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Now I don't want to pair yet I think

I want our next two pairs to be our designated endgame pairs

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Datisi should be in one

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Idk how to take this mad scramble for LLD

Honestly that alone is making me think she's probably town

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Is taly here?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

What do you think about the idea that I think most of the game atm is alignment neutral?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

i question how you are reading people and what would be AI to you

i kind of wonder if youre doing this intentionally hmmm

I have a lot of "I don't want this to endgame" reads

I don't think scum have done anything but posture atm

This kinda makes me think that a lot of these tunnels and overall stronger reads are either TvT or scum scumreading town

It's severely making me question whether endgame pairs are even realistic at all atm

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm thinking our only pair atm is TvT

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Because you're my only independent townread atm

And that's the problem

[Alyssa The Lamb]

My thing about this LLD vs GL thing is that even though I think both sides are probably town for it, I'm not comfortable with either being in a designated endgame pair either

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't want to be in a designated endgame pair

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Because you're my only independent townread atm

And that's the problem

you'd be comfortable with me being an endgame pair? from what i remember last time i played with you, you tend to show paranoia on me later in the game

What game was this?

I honestly don't remember most of my past games

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Huh, I kind of remember that now

I think a lot of that was just VCA leading me astray and finding reasons to scumread you after that, but it was long enough ago that I can't really be sure

I do remember playing that game mostly in a house that was pushing past 95°F though

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't think that's really as much a problem in this type of game, where town reads are generally more important than scum reads

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I wonder if this game can have scum PoEd out

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It might actually be doable

But I think I won't know until more pairings legit happen

And I'm still not quite sure what I want from mine yet, last thought I had was wanting to be flipped first dance

[Alyssa The Lamb]

But i think i have a better grasp on things now so maybe I want to play for final 6 again

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think ydrasse is probably scum so I'd want you nowhere near endgame if you pair with her

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Just flip a coin

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm not surprised to hear you say that

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Do you have anything more to add ydrasse

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Okay

[Alyssa The Lamb]

That would be nice, yes

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Is that a tilt ask?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

On tilt is a poker term meaning that you're making decisions based on emotion rather than logic

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Aka are you asking him to dance because you're upset

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also have your reads changed

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Ok and?

I'm pretty sure we've never played before so idk how exactly this is a bad take from me specifically even though I'm not the first person to express this

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I hope you understand why I don't find that compelling at all ydrasse

[Alyssa The Lamb]

prism, would you be down to pair with me as a potential endgame pair? i noticed a few people talked about it but i don't remember you saying your opinion there

I think I can agree with that pairing

Idk if prism is someone I'm capable of reading properly but I think she's someone I can read indirectly at least

[Alyssa The Lamb]

do we have to form endgame pairs

I'd like to be confident in two when first dance starts

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I hope you understand why I don't find that compelling at all ydrasse

Well I think Ydra is a good candidate to pair with, you're not objecting to my consideration to pair despite your read.

Do you see utility in a scum-IC pair?

I'll make scum wish they don't want me alive. Bet.

I hope Slaughter Hour taught some people that I'm a crazy bitch when pushed

I think there is some value in a scum + IC pair for town, at least I don't think it's inherently bad for the IC to pair with someone that isn't especially town

I don't like designating the IC pair or my own pair for endgame

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I can detail what my approach is towards these dance games is later if people want me to

Ngl I think this setup is heavily townsided if played properly, just it generally isn't

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't remember very much about that game other than my reads sucked g1 but my playstyle kicked in and had me second guessing the right slots

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I hope you understand why I don't find that compelling at all ydrasse

Yeah i can get it

I’ll kick it into gear not now but eventually anyways

Okay

Take your time, I don't mean to make things tougher on you outside of the game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Alyssa, can you give me a brief rundown of your current pairing ideas?

I do not know if you will find it relevant, but it might help in sorting me to keep in mind that I was the other half of Black Hole Defection in Flying Scumsman. More specifically, while this is a bad thing about myself, my contempt for the town of that game made me feel like it wasn't worth playing or giving my time to. This had one exception: I took great interest in coaching Isis exactly how to get townread by yourself and by Taly, from the larger picture to the more rote diction/syntax.

I haven't forgotten the question, I just can't answer until I'm at my desktop

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm very curious how you went about pocketing me though

That's one of the few things I think I'm particularly good about stopping, especially if it happens before

[Alyssa The Lamb]

...oh

[Alyssa The Lamb]

...oh

a million dollars says this was a blow up in scum pt.

A million dollars says this isn't in game related at all

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Why did SS have to replace a slot I have no read on

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Okay so do I still answer Prism's question or

[Alyssa The Lamb]

At least, Ydrasse and Alyssa are still around.

Why me?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I really think Cabd was scum though. I can't fathom why a town!Cabd would feel confident enough in catboi to post 274 at the time that he did, it still vibes to me as the most Fake Read in the game

I kinda chained a lot of my reads based off that because it stood out to me so strongly and Prism agreed so immediately and vehemently

Why did you feel so confident in that one read?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm just not going to answer prisms question unless I have to

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Are you certain it's scum fake and not town fake?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I guess I'm just confused why the burden of proficiency only goes one way

[Alyssa The Lamb]

like I find it very strange for that one single read to predicate so much of your other thought processes

when the same logic applies for why an experienced scum cabd would so blatantly go out of his way to say that against a player without having a very good reason to risk that type of blowout response

[Alyssa The Lamb]

okay, that answers my question

thank you

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I still don't know what I'm playing for this game yet, much less what slots are the best options for me to achieve what I'm looking to achieve

[Alyssa The Lamb]

What pairings are you thinking of in general atm Taly?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

welcome to my suffering

[Alyssa The Lamb]

why do I suddenly feel a strong urge to just accept the invitation and just check out for a few days?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

right about what

[Alyssa The Lamb]

What pairings are you thinking of in general atm Taly?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I mean general pairings

Sorry

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Im pretty stupid in the brain parts

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Btw Titus

Once you have a bit more headway in the game, I'm curious what your thoughts are regarding who should pair with who and why

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I think you replaced into a town slot but I still want to independently sort you since I don't exactly have a stellar record reading LLD

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I kinda feel a Titus townread

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Wait Aly do you actually want to townread your partner

Cause that will change whether I support You/Titus or not

You don't want to endgame it appears as well

Idk

What do you want from me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Wait Aly do you actually want to townread your partner

Cause that will change whether I support You/Titus or not

You don't want to endgame it appears as well

Idk

What do you want from me

A ganestate where you life is lovely as town and horrible as scum

Preventing me from being a scum wincon might be the best way

[Alyssa The Lamb]

1348

Taly I want to go into my thoughts fully before we pull the trigger on the test of the pairings

Please wait for me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Functionally, I think that my prior idea that the scumteam has been mostly posturing throughout the game is correct. I'm fully expecting that the scumteam are planning or at least is not averse to creating one SvS pair (which in a game like this with four scum instead of three, is significantly more powerful than four TvS pairs). I personally think the scumteam aren't really planning around making a SvS pair, or they already would have probably done so. I strongly suspect that the scumteam are instead attempting to create poisoned pairings with players that otherwise would be threats towards the scumteam reaching endgame in the second dance.

It's particularly interesting to me because the first real indicator that I saw towards scum making any serious moves was that initial push by several people towards being partnered with LLD, almost to the point that it was more popular to do so rather than not. This in particular is a huge red flag to me because LLD is a player that is good at channeling confidence and pressure onto other slots and is a player I definitely wouldn't say is lying about being willing to leave the dance if she suspects she has a scum partner. I have particular thoughts I will get into a bit later about her scuffle with GuiltyLion, but what I strongly suspect is happening is that the scumteam are attempting to take advantage of this likely incorrect read to either pocket her and use her as an avenue to get their own agenda across (effectively poisoning her contribution to the game) or even to just get her to remove herself entirely from the game. I've been noticing that a lot of these same slots doing this are also saying they would also pair with me, which is making me wonder if I'm also another target for this. This somewhat insinuates that the scumteam has a member that both sees me as a threat and has some knowledge on how to play around me, but that doesn't necessarily incriminate any particular person in this playerlist even if it does happen to be correct.

But, it does tell me that the scumteam are very likely focusing on dividing town up and poisoning the well. I don't think the scumteam are making any particularly aggressive moves, which means they are probably looking to play the slow game and avoid town getting too much from any one particular flip than anything else. They're playing safer than that.

But what this does mean is that there are some reads that are more likely correct, namely that this likely means Cabd was indeed scum that was too brazen in enacting this. This means GuiltyLion is likely town (technically it's

possible

that this can indicate Cabd as town and GuiltyLion as scum, but that's a tinfoil theory that's not all that likely to be true compared to the much simpler explanation). I don't think this means that LLD-slot is necessarily scum or that Prism-slot is necessarily town. I think the LLD slot is actually more likely to be town still, but it makes me significantly less comfortable keeping that slot past the intermission stage of the game. While Titus is one of the strongest enabler players as town in this playerlist, I don't think that overshadows the worth that knowing the alignment of that slot gives. Regardless of who Titus winds up pairing with, I don't think that pairing should ever reach intermission.

I think that likely one of marcistar and RH9 is scum, considering that the two of them are the ones I most distinctly remember doing this potential posturing. I don't find it super likely that both are scum, but it is possible.
I don't think that both marcistar and angielily are scum, but I find it likely that one is.
I do still believe that Firebringer+Andante are TvT
I'm going to pretend that Ydrasse doesn't exist in a read sense since her alignment is effectively irrelevant until post-intermission assuming that pairing survives intermission.
I think that Catboi is likely town from this, but I'm not entirely sure since I could see a world where Catboi could have pivoted towards attempting to pocket me using the Cabd thing as a springboard. I admit I'm also really not sure how to take the trajectory towards looking to pair with me in the first place.
I still think Datisi is town. Galron I want to say is town, but I don't know enough about him to be able to assess how likely I am to read him accurately. Save the Dragons and Malakittens I have no true read on, but shot in the dark logic is that Malakittens is town.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

My problems with this game mostly stem from the fact that there's literally only one gentleman that has looked town at all this game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

actually never mind, Firebringer exists

[Alyssa The Lamb]

but Firebringer is not someone I normally want to count on to be an endgame force

and I don't think any non-Taly pairing leaves intermission unless Ydrasse is scum

so I'm really at a loss for which second gentleman I am comfortable leaving in the final 4

[Alyssa The Lamb]

as a clarification, a lot of the ladies I think I'm capable of correctly sorting as town given time

I'm a lot less confident about most of the gentlemen

[Alyssa The Lamb]

gun to my head I'd posit GuiltyLion and NorwegianEE as my two endgame ladies, but tbh I'm not really confident on Norwe at all at this stage either

[Alyssa The Lamb]

you stopped existing the moment you paired

[Alyssa The Lamb]

as an aside, I'm a lot more comfortable pairing with catboi now than I was yesterday

[Alyssa The Lamb]

as an aside, I'm a lot more comfortable pairing with catboi now than I was yesterday

[Alyssa The Lamb]

idk how that posted twice

[Alyssa The Lamb]

why are you pairing datisi with titus

[Alyssa The Lamb]

why do I feel like you're literally just trolling me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

oh no

[Alyssa The Lamb]

looks like you're getting flipped, Datisi

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I just don't like the idea of pairing the one gentleman I think I can feel confident long term reading as town with literally the one slot that I explicitly do not want to reach intermission

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I just don't like the idea of pairing

the one gentleman I think I can feel confident long term reading as town

Datisi with

literally the one slot that I explicitly do not want to reach intermission

LLD/Titus

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'll adapt regardless

ngl a lot of my thoughts on this game don't really matter unless I'm reaching pretty late in the game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

actually, I think this conversation is more productive if I step away from it for a bit

I'll be back a bit later

[Alyssa The Lamb]

My problems with this game mostly stem from the fact that there's literally only one gentleman that has looked town at all this game

If it wasn't for this, my AL read would plummet totally to scum. This type of thing rarely comes from scum.

what

[Alyssa The Lamb]

as a clarification, a lot of the ladies I think I'm capable of correctly sorting as town given time

Don't understand this. You are going to be able to correctly sort a subset of a subset as town but not as scum?

I find townreads significantly more valuable in this setup than scumreads

[Alyssa The Lamb]

like legit I would rather flip slots that would stongly indicate a pairing is town than try to hit slots that I think are scum directly

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Alyssa, I should have asked this before, but I reacted emotionally.

What does my death tell you about the game state? Specific reads only since you felt my death would be valuable.

1. It quantifies whether the scumteam are looking to do an SvS pairing, since I strongly suspect that it's an LLD pairing if it is
2. A town LLD flip directly checks each of the slots that were looking to pair with her, making their flips more valuable for determining what scum were looking to do this game
3. It neutralizes one of the black sheep slots for GuiltyLion, who is one of my townreads
4. Even if I do believe you can be +town as town, your scumgame is also still strong enough at manipulating the game that I don't believe the potential strengths outweigh it, especially since I don't see that part of you every game

basically it's the single biggest flip that provides the most information for what the scumteam's strategy is throughout the game in a way that no other flip does

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Alyssa, I should have asked this before, but I reacted emotionally.

What does my death tell you about the game state? Specific reads only since you felt my death would be valuable.

1. It quantifies whether the scumteam are looking to do an SvS pairing, since I strongly suspect that it's an LLD pairing if it is
2. A town LLD flip directly checks each of the slots that were looking to pair with her, making their flips more valuable for determining what scum were looking to do this game
3. It neutralizes one of the black sheep slots for GuiltyLion, who is one of my townreads
4. Even if I do believe you can be +town as town, your scumgame is also still strong enough at manipulating the game that I don't believe the potential strengths outweigh it, especially since I don't see that part of you every game

basically it's the single biggest flip that provides the most information for what the scumteam's strategy is throughout the game in a way that no other flip does

1. My townflip does nothing to determine if the scumteam want an S v S pairing or not.
2. It absolutely doesn't. Scum can be bold or passive, particularly if they don't know LLD's playstyle. Also, a weaker scum could try and implode with LLD to save GL who is a stronger scum. My townflip says nothing but I'm town.
3. Or you're just wrong/scum.
4. Fear of Titus.

smh

Now that you explain it, it's not as scummy considering there's some concrete steps you might take but a lot of this is still hollow and begs followup.

1. How does my flip define if scum want S v S or not?
2. Already handled.
3. Why wouldn't my flip have you reassess GL? You and I both know LLD's accuracy rate. Sure doubt mine but when is the last time she's been that confident and wrong? Regardless of her alignment. If you still think I'm scum after GL flips, whatever but I want to take one down with me.
4. In what universe do you think I'm being strong at manipulating the game given his defenders? Unless you think collectively all the scum are WKing GL, then I'm not having improper influence on the game given the amount of detractors.

1. That's my read on the gamestate.
2. That's my read on the gamestate.
3. I actually don't know LLD's accuracy rate, since I only ever remember playing with her as scum. I hate this type of logic, though. Every single town player has weaknesses, and I'm very loathe to simply trust individual reads unless I have

very

good reason to explicitly trust that specific read. And my read on GL is based on my gamestate read.
4. That's my read on you as a player. I have a particular read on you as town as well, of which means that I don't believe your reads are particularly strong in this particular game in the case that you are town. Plus, you have barely been here relative to the rest of the game, and this type of thing does take time to really force through.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I mean, where are the others? Everytime I'm here GL is here, so you want mala paired over GL? the way I see it, why pair with someone if they're not gonna do anything, even if GL is scum, GL will be active. I don't understand why we're not wanting GL paired

I don't understand why him over others

This is bad reasoning imo. If GL is scum he's done. If Mala is scum she's done. Both have equal opportunity to be scum. I'd rather have scum gone than a non-active town.

I'd rather yeet the non active town. just force scum to pair with each other and lim 2 for the price of 1 tomorrow. easy. ok, GL scum, and who's most likely scum gentleman? there you go.

Like I swear, some of yall.. you act like you're super good at reading people "we want these people to endgame" ok, so if scum makes this list of people to endgame? it's all like, just partner with someone, doing all this partner stuff like yall are, I'm highly doubting there's gonna be S/S pairs. Let people just do whatever, then go from there. 2000 posts of all this talking in circles, the same voices are being heard. I'm surprised everyone is doing all this "solving" like, the more pressure yall put on your "endgame pairs" the less likely we're actually able to draw conclusions. but that's just my two cents here

I consider the game won if we manage to kill all but one scum by the time we hit 6 players

I don't think town should lose at this point unless they majorly fucked up the game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I actually don't think one scum hitting the 'endgame pairs' at the start is a problem at all

[Alyssa The Lamb]

then we use the flips in first dance to verify that and adjust accordingly

[Alyssa The Lamb]

idk

I generally play around trying to verify a TvT pair and removing all but one scum at the same time, so information flips are higher priority for me than directly looking for scum in of itself

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I have a particular read on you as town as well, of which means that I don't believe your reads are particularly strong in this particular game in the case that you are town.

btw Titus, I specifically want to address this a bit further so it doesn't read as a sort of discredit on you, and because you are quite possibly the one player on the entire website I have the most games with out of anybody, so I've had plenty of opportunities to assess your play from all four angles (TvT, TvS, SvT, SvS).

the games where I feel like you are at your strongest are when you are able to confidently place players as town and directly work with those players. My experience with your towngame is that you view things in a very different way that has very mixed results, so you often run into these problems where you have very incorrect scumreads and it's very hard to pivot you off of them in those cases since finding common ground is next to impossible in a lot of cases.

You and Taly are the two players in this playerlist that I would strongly classify as enablers for town, and the way you're playing in this game indicates that you aren't playing around this philosophy, especially in a setup where I strongly believe that finding correct townreads is infinitely more productive to a town wincon than finding correct scumreads.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

This in particular is a huge red flag to me because LLD is a player that is good at channeling confidence and pressure onto other slots and is a player I definitely wouldn't say is lying about being willing to leave the dance if she suspects she has a scum partner. I have particular thoughts I will get into a bit later about her scuffle with GuiltyLion, but what I strongly suspect is happening is that the scumteam are attempting to take advantage of this likely incorrect read to either pocket her and use her as an avenue to get their own agenda across (effectively poisoning her contribution to the game) or even to just get her to remove herself entirely from the game.

I vibe with a lot of this post, I kinda want to zoom in on this part in particular.

I did wonder at the time if LLD was wrongTown and one of, or both, of marci/galron were aiming for this well-poisoning effect. That's definitely a narrative I can imagine, and LLD then proposing to pair herself with Taly also felt like it might be a Town Move.

The thing I'm struggling with now is a couple of things:

1. If LLD town, Titus is really souring me on that slot. Every post she's made in her catchup pertaining to me has been uncharitable and explicitly meant to make me look as bad as possible. I know Titus can be obstinate, and maybe I'm naive but I fail to see what it is in my posts - especially early game pre:LLD scuffle - that would have her So Convinced that I'm scum. She should have enough experience with me to at least doubt her read I feel, but she's projecting utmost confidence. To me it feels more like Titus sees we're already anti-spewed and she's just hoping to muscle me out of the game so I can't do damage later. Why do you think Titus' play is town here?

2. I kinda feel like marci's recent posting has been better - vibe/tonewise it's been a lot closer to the town!marci I know, and I don't see a super compelling explanation for why scum!marci offered to pair with me ultimately, unless she just wants to get one of LLD/me out of the game and figures that's the most utility she can get out of her slot. if marci is town I'm not sure what to make of Galron's Yolo Propose if he's scum - I do think it looks bad on him but I don't see what he gains from it if LLD is also town, other than to maybe poison whatever other pair marci winds up in. and if marci is scum, is Galron ever scum with her as well? I'm not sure how I feel myself, kinda just want more thoughts from you on that.

I feel you've got some good theories about how scum are playing in the abstract sense but I don't know I follow how this bit in particular fits together with your conclusions on the alignments of marci, galron, LLD, does that make sense? could you maybe walk through which combination of scum!Galron, scum!marci, scum!LLD you see as best explanation for that whole scenario?

that's very hard for me to do since I pretty much always look for the WHAT and then fit the WHO to it... and then verify the most crucial part of it and refine from there

the thing about this particular playstyle is that it's often far more valuable in generating correct townreads rather than correct scumreads, since this process often rules out specific players from potentially being scum entirely if you're at least in the ballpark of being correct, yet you often need the details to be correct in order to generate a solve that has enough correct scumreads to be able to win the game (or to generate enough correct townreads to be able to easily PoE it out)

I'm not at the stage where I can definitively tell you roughly who I expect to be scum in this exchange, all I can really tell you is that if I'm on the right track, the reads I mentioned in that thread are more likely to be correct than not

[Alyssa The Lamb]

my playstyle tends to look really dumb from the town side until you see it work once

[Alyssa The Lamb]

or see it from the scum side

[Alyssa The Lamb]

man

I went back to read through a couple parts of starry night and felt bad all over again for how disheartened Isis was when she played as well as she did but couldn't win anyways because there was one TvT pairing that became obvious town post-intermission

[Alyssa The Lamb]

you know what?

I'm suddenly not even sure that my approach to the game necessarily translates to four scum rather than three in this setup, so I'm just going to trust in whatever Taly wants as a pairing for me and play the dances by ear.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm going to bed, good night

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I honestly think angielily should be the slot left out

Mala should just pair with somebody that can help her catch up

[Alyssa The Lamb]

S+S pairings are extremely powerful with the right players

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm Taly's bitch now, I pair with who he wants me to pair with

[Alyssa The Lamb]

What's your exp with him

I don't think I've ever played with him before

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm going to pretend that Ydrasse doesn't exist in a read sense since her alignment is effectively irrelevant until post-intermission assuming that pairing survives intermission.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

TvA was a strong town win but holy shit was it painful to play in the moment

[Alyssa The Lamb]

ngl I think I'd be doing more damage to Taly by just aggressively pushing my own thoughts and forcing him to adapt to me rather than the other way around

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't townread SS or StD (and obviously townread GL) but otherwise it's similar to mine

[Alyssa The Lamb]

no, I actually don't remember a single thing that StD has even done this game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Am I needed for anything atm?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm completely fine with either suggested pairing

Whichever one winds up being the better or only available one I will take if available

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I know this isn't exactly reassuring

But there are...uh... I think 3 people that have ever been able to consistently scumread me correctly without scumreading my town game a lot in compensation

[Alyssa The Lamb]

It's usually better to judge based on how town I look

It's generally more likely to be accurate that way

[Alyssa The Lamb]

who? why didn't you name them up front?

Idk the people who know me. Datisi, FB, Ydrasse, Alyssa, maybe Titus, maybe Taly, maybe catboi although it seems like probably not.

It's pretty dependent on how the game goes though, all of these people have misread me before.

I think I'm capable of correctly reading SS indirectly, but directly not a chance

[Alyssa The Lamb]

hm. for what it's worth, taly, that does sound like decent reasoning to think alyssa is indeed town. i'm just wary because i think that she'd have an easier time pocketing me in the pt than guiltylion

would

.

Editing is case anyone was as confused as I was when I read that

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Am I really that scary of a scum player?

I replaced out of a lot of my scum wins in the past few years and I kinda feel like this type of setup would be one I approach by just looking to force a bunch of really shitty pairings that town can't reasonably find two TvT confident pairings in

But I don't actually know for sure, especially since I haven't ever played the 4 scum variant before

[Alyssa The Lamb]

You're such a flirt

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Oh hey GL was in my last scum game

Nice

[Alyssa The Lamb]

@Mod: V/LA 48 hours

[Alyssa The Lamb]

catboi, legit question:

hm. for what it's worth, taly, that does sound like decent reasoning to think alyssa is indeed town. i'm just wary because i think that she'd have an easier time pocketing me in the pt than guiltylion.

sorry x_x if i'm picking between guiltylion and alyssa, and i pair with scum, i think lesser damage will happen to town if that scum is guiltylion than if that scum is alyssa.

what do these two posts tell you about datisi's alignment?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

catboi, legit question:

hm. for what it's worth, taly, that does sound like decent reasoning to think alyssa is indeed town. i'm just wary because i think that she'd have an easier time pocketing me in the pt than guiltylion.

sorry x_x if i'm picking between guiltylion and alyssa, and i pair with scum, i think lesser damage will happen to town if that scum is guiltylion than if that scum is alyssa.

what do these two posts tell you about datisi's alignment?

Those seem...fairly consistent in their view? He's more wary of being fooled by you than by GL. Makes some sense given familiarity although I'm not sure why he'd be confident catching GL-scum given recent history.

I mean, it could easily be scum posturing to try to get the dance partner they want but I don't think it's impossible for town to write those posts.


9/10

Thank you

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Blake Belladonna is me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

wait and you're also Ank?? lmao

sometimes I feel like I'm always playing with the same ~15-20 people just on a bunch of different accounts -.-

Neither of these accounts were ever meant to be secret.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

One week, and that expired yesterday

Anyways, good luck with that guys, this thread is going to be 40 pages longer in 24 hours

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'm really tempted to just accept the proposal now and fuck off until the end of predance, but that feels really disrespectful so I will just wait.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I knew who you were the moment I saw the name.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Here's my bookmark.

Taly, when I get back, tell me anything of remote importance from this point and there.

Good night.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Hi.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

That was a test to see what type of response he would give since I could conceivably see either alignment or anywhere in between as a response

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I'll wait to see who replaces catboi.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Catboi is a gentleman.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Also you'd best decide on who you want fast, you're very close to being the last person to have a choice at all.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Oh boy I have open proposals from every remaining gentlemen

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Hear me out

Catbois replacement should be with Mala if it's someone she can work with

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I too want to see his replacement

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Aly

how do you read my style this game?

Really focused on solving enough town slots to get TvT pairs going

That's generally what I feel like you're trying to do, only problem is that the pools got pinched in an odd way

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Do I really have to play around being the endgame pair?

This is so fucked

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Catboi slot + Mala please

Accept RH9

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I frankly don't care about your read on my slot

[Alyssa The Lamb]

You let me worry about RH9.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Man I certainly didn't miss this need to be perfect or I get called shitty town every game

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Well that didn't work

I would've taken Shiro instead

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I don't care anymore

We don't have any endgame pairings no matter how this shakes out

[Alyssa The Lamb]

You didn't ruin anything shiro

[Alyssa The Lamb]

u really should have paired with shiro. dont know why u went impulsive all the sudden

Harley has a way of tilting me

[Alyssa The Lamb]

There wasn't really planned pairings in a grand sense

More I don't feel like any of the pairings with townreads of mine are pairings I think are consistently going to be endgame worthy regardless of flips

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Independently I agree with the shiro+Mala pairing