Open 839: White flag Holder [Game Over]

[numberQ]

VOTE: Dwlee

Random page 1 feeling, they're scum trying to jester-tell so we don't lim them. You can take this as fact because it's a page 1 read based off 8 posts.

[numberQ]

lmao, sounds like the title of my autobiography

[numberQ]

The image spam struck me as disruptive in a jester-y sort of way. Though A) I have never played with a jester before, and B) I see now that one of the images was actually a quote from a different game, so maybe that's just meta for Dwlee.

[numberQ]

Every scum I've ever played with has used the letter 'e' in their posts, and you have like 10 'e's there. Scum found.

[numberQ]

That's what I accused Dwlee of doing more or less.

[numberQ]

Are you trying to reverse psychology the jester? I honestly don't know why we'd want to fulfill their win con via vote, pretty sure it only helps scum it it removes the white flag mechanic

[numberQ]

The real question is if we should out jester reads or not.
I'm of the opinion to keep jester reads to ourselves because they upside of scum killing jester outweighs the downside of an elimination making the game require +1 scum dead.

But we don't want to eliminate jester so if you heavily jester read the biggest candidate for an elimination then and only then is the time to speak up

I think I agree with this. Though I'm running it through in my head and I feel like it's unlikely scum will NK jester in any scenario. Like, why would the jester be playing in such a way to attract the kill? They'll be angling to get vote limmed, since I'm prettttty sure a NK doesn't give them the win. Considering the setup specifically uses the "elimination" language in the jester's win con. And unless the jester plays spectacularly badly in that regard, I don't see scum targeting them over someone who's pro-town or lurky. Maybe I'm just not seeing it though.

[numberQ]

The reason is in his first post, he's here to troll the fecal matter out of this game. And all games. It's kind of annoying.

[numberQ]

I don't think he's ever personally attacked someone, so not trolling in that sense. And to be fair I have seen him actually play before, even after coming into the game with that as his first post. But that literally is his opening in every game I've ever seen him play so I'm not taking it as AI at all.

[numberQ]

[snip]
the game did not start with people talknig about jesters

people started talking about jesters have someone claimed to be the jester

I started a conversation about the jester page 1

[numberQ]

Why does one question about mech strategy make Andante worth voting?

[numberQ]

The real question is if we should out jester reads or not.
I'm of the opinion to keep jester reads to ourselves because they upside of scum killing jester outweighs the downside of an elimination making the game require +1 scum dead.

But we don't want to eliminate jester so if you heavily jester read the biggest candidate for an elimination then and only then is the time to speak up

I think I agree with this. Though I'm running it through in my head and I feel like it's unlikely scum will NK jester in any scenario. Like, why would the jester be playing in such a way to attract the kill? They'll be angling to get vote limmed, since I'm prettttty sure a NK doesn't give them the win. Considering the setup specifically uses the "elimination" language in the jester's win con. And unless the jester plays spectacularly badly in that regard, I don't see scum targeting them over someone who's pro-town or lurky. Maybe I'm just not seeing it though.

Are you jester, Q???????

~G

Are you asking if I'm blatantly fishing for ways to protect myself as jester from the nightkill?

---

I'm TRing Andante for her reactions to the datsi and RH9 votes.

---

Why does one question about mech strategy make Andante worth voting?

Because a basic comprehension of the setup renders the question pointless.
I don’t like that you’re saying this after 144 either.

I am curious why marci opted to vote RH9 here

What's 144 got to do with it? Weird connection to make imo

[numberQ]

Are you asking if I'm blatantly fishing for ways to protect myself as jester from the nightkill?

That's an interesting take.

I don't know what other conclusion there is based on the post you quoted when you asked me if I'm jester.

How did you reach said PoE?

Ah wow actual questions. I based my townreads on how people interacted with my opener. I felt that scum were more likely to just kinda ignore me, whereas town kinda jumped in giving opinions on my slot

This is interesting, though I'm not sure in which direction yet. Was it your intent to be SRed for your opening? What about it made you think scum would ignore you?

[numberQ]

I feel I'm TRing you now. I wanted to call you out about that making no sense, but then I looked back and I think it does?

[unvore]Dwlee[/unvote]

And that kind of makes me SR Toog. Because your list is just a PoE - it's everyone who ISN'T a townread, not necessarily everyone who IS a scumread. So Toog getting defensive and saying your logic is flawed because they ignore most people, it's kind of a bad look imo.

Does scum!Toog blatantly try to get the jester limmed to screw over town like in 142? Or is that a legitimate town opinion?

[numberQ]

[unvore]Dwlee[/unvote]

oh my god

unVOTE

UNVOTE: Dwlee

[numberQ]

I don't even want to know what unvore is

[numberQ]

Well you're in luck, I'm UNvoring you. Don't ask what it means.

[numberQ]

So Toog getting defensive and saying your logic is flawed because they ignore most people, it's kind of a bad look imo.

I did what now?

Hmm... I ignore most people though. Seems flawed.

[numberQ]

I don't get the case against M&M. Pooky's absence is pretty much entirely NAI, especially considering the Noraa head was posting in that time. And idk about Noraa being "hyperdefensive". If someone has examples of that I'd love to see them.

[numberQ]

As Milk & Mocha's counsel, I must recuse myself of all liability and disclaim that in the event they should be scum, any and all affiliations thereof and therewith the associated party(s) in no way reflects on my own character or intent.

[numberQ]

I just wanted to bullshit some lawyer talk lol

Do you think I'm town? If so is it just because I defended you once? I recall in Squid Game you had quite a bit of angst about me pocketing you Noraa, and I turned out to be scum in that game. Curious why I'm not seeing that reaction from you now. (I think I'm talking to the Noraa head right now?)

[numberQ]

Do you have a reason beyond "isn't it obvious"? I don't know RH9's scum game but this feels like what I do know of his town game.

[numberQ]

I feel like half the player list is trying to jester-tell. Either that or I'm going insane.

[numberQ]

I don't think anyone's explained the case against M&M yet tbh. At least not addressing my questions about it from earlier.

[numberQ]

I don't think anyone's explained the case against M&M yet tbh. At least not addressing my questions about it from earlier.

Do you think that they are deliberately doing it or do you think that they just missed them?

No clue.

If someone who wants me to vote M&M could look at 294 and elaborate on your read a little, you'd really only be helping yourself. Because right now I feel like I only have townreads, and I'm pretty sure it's because this setup has a jester so it's making me question any other kind of read.

[numberQ]

I don't have any reason to vote any of the top three wagons, and we have less than 3 days left. Not sure who I'd be willing to compromise on. Maybe Not_Mafia but that's more policy than actual scumreading. Still haven't heard any good reasons for RH9 or M&M being worth today's lim.

[numberQ]

VOTE: RH9
He feels a little lackluster rn, part of this is just me agreeing with others saying his vote+unvote on Andante wasn’t great but I think he’s just really muted from what I’ve seen of his prior town games

I was just thinking this actually, while ISOing the top wagons. I don't always vibe with his reads/analysis when he's town, but he at least gives reads and analysis.

I'm also not really sure what 373 and 376 were all about. They felt off ever since he posted them but I can't put my finger on it.

The jester thing is still throwing me, but I don't know how to factor that into my reads so I guess I just won't.

VOTE: RH9

[numberQ]

Have you considered that Mafia is trying to coordinate a miselimination?

Where's the coordination?

[numberQ]

Also I forgot DArby was in this game lmao

[numberQ]

Also I forgot DArby was in this game lmao

exactly, and that isnt a good thing

Why vote for no activity when you can vote for scummy activity?

[numberQ]

everybody flocking towards it isnt my cup of tea

So you're one of those hipster voters or something

[numberQ]

@mod,

will that affect the deadline?

If someone wants an extension then sure. 48h after replacement is found.

[numberQ]

I wouldn't be voting you if I thought you were jester.

[numberQ]

It would be funny if Harley Quinn was the jester.

[numberQ]

Squid Game was a weird setup to be fair. Half the game didn't even feel like Mafia.

[numberQ]

And since Pooky's here as a hydra, I'll clarify that doesn't mean it wasn't fun

[numberQ]

I was in squid game...

Squid Game was a weird setup to be fair. Half the game didn't even feel like Mafia.

This is a parachute

oh my god

I think you just triggered my PTSD

[numberQ]

Can people start voting please? The biggest wagon is still at E-4 and we have less than two days left.

[numberQ]

I have no idea what to make of RH9 right now. I feel like the smart move as jester at this point would be to shut up and let yourself get voted, so by that logic it reinforces my belief that he's scum trying to jester-tell. But maybe I'm biased because I'm already voting him.

[numberQ]

I have no idea what to make of RH9 right now. I feel like the smart move as jester at this point would be to shut up and let yourself get voted, so by that logic it reinforces my belief that he's scum trying to jester-tell. But maybe I'm biased because I'm already voting him.

What if I'm Jester trying to avoid getting NKed?

Or VT trying to confuse scum?

This is another possibility I did consider. Probably the only way to be sure is to pile on more votes.

[numberQ]

RH9 wtf are you on about with the bolding?

yet future this game ended

Is this the reaction you've been looking for? Total confusion and a little frustration?

[numberQ]

The most annoying thing about this setup is the fear that going into detail about my changing reads will ruin someone else's plan to confuse scum by fake jester-telling. There is so much back and forth in my head I feel like I'm drowning in wine.

Not sure I want to vote RH9 anymore but I also don't want to vote M&M.

Yes this fence is quite comfortable, thanks for asking.

[numberQ]

At this rate we're going to no lim. Still don't know if there's a case against M&M that's more than meta. Still feeling uncertain about my RH9 vote. Toog and Dwlee are the next biggest wagons I think, though with 2 votes idk if wagon is even the right word. But out of those two, I townread Dwlee and I'm null on Toog, would have to ISO them I think.

@mod can we get a vote count please?

[numberQ]

Pretty sure ahhlo's voting Dwlee

[numberQ]

So therefore, I was definitely not voted for playstyle.

idk exactly what "voting you for playstyle" means, but my vote on you was because you were acting outside the town meta I recognized. Now you're more in line with that meta, but idk where else to put my vote. Kind of feeling the M&M wagon after these last few pages actually. I see you're not voting, why is that?

[numberQ]

So therefore, I was definitely not voted for playstyle.

idk exactly what "voting you for playstyle" means, but my vote on you was because you were acting outside the town meta I recognized. Now you're more in line with that meta, but idk where else to put my vote. Kind of feeling the M&M wagon after these last few pages actually. I see you're not voting, why is that?

you said you were gonna be our defense attorney :/ gee that lasted long.

I just got tired of sitting in your pocket

Can we lim Rh here? Pooky/noraa s acting like they expect to be limmed here which wouldn't be likely as scum

They're acting like they expect to be limmed? Feels like the exact opposite to me, they think they're hot shit who could never be scumread.

[numberQ]

VOTE: M&M

[numberQ]

M&M claimed IC? I mean even if they did and it was unCCed... wtf does that prove? No way the IC would counter that now.

[numberQ]

Did they just claim or did they actually trigger the mod-confirm ability? I'm not digging through 222 posts of theirs to find the claim.

Also I guess the timer is paused for now. I was looking at an older VC and thought we only had like 4.5 hours left. So I thought things were a little more urgent than they are. But they're still kind of urgent if we want to avoid a no lim, and I don't see a reason we would want that.

Anyway wtf why am I still awake. Going to bed now, hopefully.

pedit: If RH9 is correct then yeah, there's absolutely no reason to believe their claim, and I struggle to even see a valid reason for them to have claimed in the first place.

Happy holidays as well!

[numberQ]

Oh I confused two people without an avatar
VOTE: Number Q

'_'

I have an avatar

[numberQ]

Well they're not IC so they can't reveal.

[numberQ]

VOTE: NK15

N_M, Not Known 15 isn't even in this game. Why are you voting them?

Probably a joke about Meg voting NK15 by accident.

[numberQ]

Let's think about the IC claim. Why does scum!M&M do it? There are two outcomes:

1) The IC does not counterclaim, which is the smart move because now they have conf!scum and can let associations simmer before they finally do reveal themselves later in the game.
2) The IC does counterclaim, and the scumteam has just traded one of their own for one of us. Typically this is a bad deal for scum, BUT in this setup there's very much utility in doing that. Not only does this lead to the death of a strong town PR super early in the game, but it gives them a day to avoid shooting the jester, which would be disastrous for scum.

Now why does town!M&M do it?

1) They are actually the IC, and did it because... ??? I actually don't know this one. Their wagon wasn't that big so I don't think it was to protect themselves in this scenario. This is the LEAST LIKELY scenario imo.
2) They are not IC, and are trying to draw maf's bullet. Maybe a good plan actually, town is divided enough against them (and was before the claim even) that town!M&M is a good slot for them to leave open for a mislim regardless. Normally I'd hesitate to point out this plan so I don't tip off scum but I don't think M&M is town so I don't think this plan is happening.

Now that we have 2 extra days, I'm almost tempted to unvote because if scenario 1.1 is true then leaving M&M alive for now is actually to town's benefit. Buuuuut one of those 2 days is through Christmas, and I'm really not sure who else to vote. There's been a ton of people saying "hey vote this slot join my wagon" without actually saying

why

pedit: I wrote this whole thing out and thought really hard about it so I'm gonna post it dammit. I don't even have a reaction to you saying it was all a joke yet

[numberQ]

Huh, turns out I actually did read the post where M&M claimed IC. I don't think I grokked it fully though. It didn't even register to me as a claim, idk if I realized you were joking or what.

[numberQ]

ughhhh idk who to vote, we have to vote someone, I'm not voting M&M

Why? Has the whole IC claim debacle made you more or less sure of not putting your vote there? Proooobably should make you less sure.

[numberQ]

That is such a bad take Andante. I'm not PR fishing. I'm pushing the M&M lim. Which means I'm addressing people who don't want to vote M&M and trying to change their minds. Where tf do you see PR fishing?

[numberQ]

This game went from basically dead to spammed the hell up in like, 2 days. Thought I could pop in before bed to see what happened today but I have to wake up early for Christmas tomorrow so the best I could do was a Hyper Skim (tm).

Meg's SR against me continues to be total nonsense and idk what Andante's case even is really.

Is it just me or is M&M getting more difficult to read as the game goes on? I'm talking about stuff like when you guys talk to each other in separate posts back and forth, without a single signature. Like, legitimately difficult to understand what you're saying, whether it's a joke or real, etc. And the way you keep joking about Three's pfp, not sure if it's Pooky or Noraa, after he said to stop feels more than a little mean spirited.

I dunno. More stuff probably happened I probably want to comment on. That's all I can spare for Mafia The Game tonight. You guys post a lot on effing Christmas Eve lol

[numberQ]

toog, three, numberQ are on MM.... 3 universal SRs.... yet some still say MM is a good wagon?

universal, lol. I don't get scum vibes from you but man, your takes continue to be bad.

it's so easy to just be like "MM has most votes, we're not NLing, Voting them out!"

Seriously? This is a completely valid reason to vote someone.

Deadline will be extended most likely so we can discuss this more.

VOTE: Unvote

What makes you say the deadline will be extended?

---

I'm curious about these Toog SRs. I feel like I haven't paid much attention to them this game. iirc I said I wanted to look over their posts some time ago, I will probably do that tomorrow. Can those voting them point out what they think is noteworthy enough to vote?

[numberQ]

Alright, so another deadline extension. Guess we can keep kicking this can down the road. What crazy and wacky events will make deadline extend next time?

[numberQ]

da fuck, now there's ANOTHER wagon? guys we have 12 hours

What is scum about marci? ISO looked fine to me. Only thing I didn't like that much was her Toog case in 675, it just didn't really make sense to me. But it hasn't been "nothing" like M&M said. Not everyone on this wagon can be scum so I feel like I'm missing something. Trust me I'd love to jump over there so we can avoid a no lim (whoops who was it that said voting for that reason is scummy? guess I slipped, gg)

[numberQ]

VOTE: marcistar

Isn't this the hammer? Meg said E-2 but they had 5 at last VC I'm pretty sure.

I lean more town here but I definitely don't lean jester, so I'm happy to get some flip info at the very least. Still prefer M&M for the record.

[numberQ]

They had 4.
It takes 8 to yeet

I mean just look at the last VC lol. They had 5.

i think numberqs prob town

i thought, and still do think that they have some weird posts. things like "is it just me or.." seem like theyre scared & testing the water before committing to stuff,

but

i opened a game of theirs and it seems thats just them and how they play.

a read with a goodbye kiss xx

I think I only said "is it just me" when I was complaining about M&M's posting style. Not really trying to test a read or anything.

[numberQ]

What benefit mafia have from wagoning townie and then trying to wagon someone else though.

What do you mean by this?

[numberQ]

Not_Mafia have been prodded. Their third prod will result in immediate replacement.

Vote Count 1.11

With 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to eliminate.


Milk & Mocha (5): Toogeloo, Enchant, numberQ, Dwlee99, Voyc,
marcistar (4): Three, Harley Quinn, Blood Puppets, Andante,
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia,
Toogeloo (1): marcistar,
Andante (1): Milk & Mocha,
Dwlee99 (0):
RH9 (0):
numberQ (0):
Harley Quinn (0):
Three (0):
Blood Puppets (0):
Enchnat (0):
Voyc (0):
MegAzumarill (0):

Not Voting

(2): RH9, MegAzumarill,

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-12-27 13:59:14)

4

It wouldn't be a mafia game if I didn't dumb at least once.

[numberQ]

Not_Mafia have been prodded. Their third prod will result in immediate replacement.

Vote Count 1.11

With 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to eliminate.


Milk & Mocha (5): Toogeloo, Enchant, numberQ, Dwlee99, Voyc,
marcistar (4): Three, Harley Quinn, Blood Puppets, Andante,
Not_Mafia (1): Not_Mafia,
Toogeloo (1): marcistar,
Andante (1): Milk & Mocha,
Dwlee99 (0):
RH9 (0):
numberQ (0):
Harley Quinn (0):
Three (0):
Blood Puppets (0):
Enchnat (0):
Voyc (0):
MegAzumarill (0):

Not Voting

(2): RH9, MegAzumarill,

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-12-27 13:59:14)

4

It wouldn't be a mafia game if I didn't dumb at least once.

You weren’t on Marci, so how were you dumb?

The dumb wasn't me voting town, it was me arguing with Meg about numbers in the VC and being clearly and demonstrably wrong.

Maybe you all got set up by the scum?

Well that’s a possibility but why does scum!M & M suddenly switch to Andante? If Marci had flipped scum, then they’d probably be guilty by associations but she didn’t, so why does scum!M & M do that?

scum!M&M switches to Andante because they were extremely confident they wouldn't get hammered regardless. So why not let the rest of the town take care of the counterwagon for them? Looks good on them to not be voting town.

Are you unfamiliar with my scum game?

I just won a 1 vs 13 as scum where I got mech-guiltied twice against 4-5 people who were conftowned(psuedo ICs).

In this game I can snap my fingers and kill someone who had 0 votes 12 hours before a deadline even with my hydra partner actively sabotaging me.

So do you really think I care if I "look bad" ?

I hate this post, ngl. Nothing related to the game or alignment. It's just the arrogance and bragging.

---

Anyway I'm cool with shaking this tree and seeing what continues to fall out.

VOTE: RH9

[numberQ]

Hi guys I'm here. Spoke with Kerset privately and I slid in riiiiiight before the buzzer, so I'm not getting replaced just yet.

I have a few posts quoted in other tabs I want to comment on, but I jumped over to another game when I saw I might be getting replaced so I have to regather my thoughts on this one. Should have something posted soon, since this game is slow and not a whole lot happened since my last post tbh

[numberQ]

numberQ, why do you hate M&M's 1648?

Just the arrogance really.

@RH9:

Why aren't you voting Q?

+1

Yes, I guess that’s concerning me too. He says Q’s playing differently here but he’s not voting him or anyone, so it makes me wonder.

Because I don't go around voting people for acting 'different'.

I recall you being very interested in meta in previous games. What is that if not voting people for acting different?

i think megazumarill is town.
And RH9 why dont we push numberq towards elim here if that will get the best read

Yeah honestly more votes on me might make me effort more.

numberQ, what do you think of the current gamestate?

I think I'm partially responsible for it being so dead as one of the people who pretty much stopped posting the last few days. That's my b.

Is there's someone else lurking expect for me? I didn't notice really.

I don't think so.

What a weird exchange, though it's coming from two players who historically I've incorrectly SRed for having weird exchanges.

Suddenly idea to force no-lim and wait before mafia blast Jester is not horrible for me.
Do you think Jester hiding about active or passive players? And who mafia will start shoting... Hmm.

I think giving the mafia free kills is a bad idea tbh. What makes you think the mafia will kill the jester?

Enchant is the jester. Change my mind

Idk how to change your mind if you haven't said anything that's in your mind. Why is he jester? Actually, better question, why do you think it's a good idea to out the jester?

good question, right now im voting numberq i believe, that one has a 30-40% chance of being scum. If i had a better odds would be voting there but this is the kind of casino gambling we got to work with when i don't read full game.

RH9 has at LEAST those odds and he's closer to being limmed, vote him.

Not sure what this means but the RH9 push is based on vibes + game state + the weird hedging around Q.

Basically im saying is u have nothing. You insist on RH9 to interact with ur read because :
A) you got nothing so ur looking for a reaction to give u a genuine read
B) ur looking for something to give u ammo to justify ur push (again fake but this is more nefarious)

But since im accusing u of having a fake read here and u gave reasons.
What is RH9 supposed to answer that will help u read him any better with a post about either his vibe or gamestate....

the only thing he can answer for is hedging around Q. Which looks to me like ur possibly chainsaw or defending townie. Idk. Kind of weird.

I changed my mind, enchant isn't jester. Three is jester trying to poke at people to get them to reflexively vote em. I figured it out mom, where my prize.

Wait so now it's SCUMMY to ask people to engage with your reads??? That is seriously the wildest take I've ever heard in a game of mafia

[numberQ]

If RH9/Q are both town, then are scum on these wagons or literally just not playing the game?

Did anyone say Q was town here

You're the only one voting me so

[snip]

I recall you being very interested in meta in previous games. What is that if not voting people for acting different?

I changed my mind on meta, a while ago. Also, are you saying that I should be voting you?

lol. What is this question?

did you really read that entire wall

It's literally 9 sentences without the quotes. You post more than that in about 3 microseconds, just because it's spread out and spamming the thread doesn't mean it's more readable.

[numberQ]

Honestly this game is getting aggravating and I really hope it's because of the jester and not just people's playstyles. Like I've played with a lot of you before so I don't think it's a playstyle thing, but idk. Maybe I'm just stressed irl. I can deal with the spam, but when you complain about the game being dead and then go and say "I'm not reading that" when people try to actually catch up and present commentary on what's been happening, what the fuck?

[numberQ]

nq i am willing to read your post

if its like 1-3 lines.

with IMPORTANT IDEAS. hopefully capitalized.

my IMPORTANT IDEA is

that when i make LONG posts,

they are ALL important ideas.

and here's a bonus 4th line - it's because RESPONDING TO OTHER PEOPLE'S POSTS IS HOW I PLAY MAFIA AND THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL

[numberQ]

RH9 is a bit unusual in this game actually. RH9, have you been looking to me as an ally in this game?

I think he's been unusual too. Not as much analysis as I've seen in town!RH9 before. IIRC the order of events right, he started to be more analytical after I called him out on it. And then recently said that he's stopped relying on meta as a scumhunting tool, which would be convenient considering my vote on him is for his meta.

[numberQ]

I don't think we should lim M&M anymore, not yet anyway

[numberQ]

Sure I'll be lively and post gifs after we murder you

I HAVE DOUBTS ABOuT THIS

Look at my entrance to the game. I have it in me!

ok tryout begin now

if you post enough funny memes maybe people will believe you

Have you posted a single meme all game, I mostly remember cartoon bears

[numberQ]

Weird that you're solving against scum!RH9 but you aren't voting him.

Also can you elaborate on how 525-527 put a hole in {RH9, M&M}?

[numberQ]

VOTE: Voyc

?

[numberQ]

The worst part about this setup is we can't even policy lim the jester

[numberQ]

Question, are we trying to eliminate jester or let jester get night killed?

>:/
seeing as it getting nightkilled makes the mafia lose that ability, I would think the answer obvious
VOTE: Andante
I fail to see what the aim of the question is besides busywork.

this post early pinged me

What do you think of RH9 sheeping them almost immediately afterwards? Then backing down extremely easily. That pings me more than datsi's vote.

Question, are we trying to eliminate jester or let jester get night killed?

>:/
seeing as it getting nightkilled makes the mafia lose that ability, I would think the answer obvious
VOTE: Andante
I fail to see what the aim of the question is besides busywork.

I can get your point. It does seem like she's trying to appear like she's solving.
VOTE: Andante

Why does one question about mech strategy make Andante worth voting?

Well. I guess that you're right and I overeacted. UNVOTE: Andante

[numberQ]

I usually find you to be analytical and calculating. Not so much a drama queen.

[numberQ]

VOTE: Voyc

There are better inactive wagons if you are going to go with an inactive one.

Namely both Enchant and NumberQ

Get with the times, I'm active

[numberQ]

Yeah I wanna know what FB sees in datsi/Voyc too. I looked through their ISOs after 2160, and that post just feels so dissonant to the vibe I got from my look through. FB calls Voyc's prodding directionless and purposeless but I disagree from this post alone:

I wont vote q, three, or harley

M+M is confusing to me,

@M&M

is there any way you can sign your posts? I have 0 familiarity with either of you and honestly can't tell you apart unless a gif or bear phrase is mentioned
I don't like that slot, the interactions v3 and vHarley seemed genuine from 3/Harley's side, 3 in particular seemed to be trying to use it to figure out the alignment, I just don't get those feelings from M+M, and I don't see how the way they're playing helps town at all, much of their posts just boil down to 'im super obvtown bc yes'
VOTE: M&M

Ig I'd be onboard w a Toog lim if deadline gets too close and we haven't advanced, they're nullscum and it'd help me w a better read on marci bc her posts around him don't seem like svs

ahhlo had some posts i didnt really like but ill wait to see what replacement is like, it could go either way w newbie town or defensive scum who doesn't like/know how to play a maf role


@Blood Puppets can I get the explanation for town!Toog :0?

And while I didn't look very hard at the datsi ISO, it didn't give me that much in the way of scum vibe.

[numberQ]

I have like 4 jester reads and something tells me none of them are jester

[numberQ]

You're 2 of those 4 reads

[numberQ]

Hi. Anything to add?

[numberQ]

Now I have 5 jester reads

[numberQ]

Am I going to have to read the game

Well if you're not going to read the game, and you're not going to engage when people try to engage with you, then idk what else you'd do

[numberQ]

Enchant's been posting and that's who you're voting. There are people on the list who haven't posted in over 2 days. Are they not better targets with that logic?

[numberQ]

Oh wait Andante is being replaced. So not quite 2 days. But there are people who haven't posted in over 1 day.

[numberQ]

We're in a weird limbo. The whole game has been like this, we barely got a lim off yesterday. So no, probably not healthy. Why does killing Enchant make it healthier? The active players you don't want to kill are currently alive and the game is still like this.

[numberQ]

Alyssa do you think the game state is healthy when we have players around who refuse to even glance through the first 80 pages?

[numberQ]

I'd say there's evidence you aren't s/t but don't think I want to say more atm.

You're holding a lot of cards to your chest, I feel like every other post of yours you opaquely say something like "I can't talk about that right now". What's so dangerous about this information/observation you don't want us to know?

[numberQ]

I think the only combination that logic rules out is scum!Alyssa and town!RH9. Could still be T/S, T/T, or S/S.

[numberQ]

I don't know if I should be offended or not

[numberQ]

@mod, any updates on how long this game will be paused?

It is up to players, how long they want this day to last.

Leaving deadline up to the players is going to kill this game lol

We need two more votes on RH9 to escape this hellpit of a day 2. I don't even care anymore if the game state is being manipulated by scum to make me this desperate. At least something will be happening, which has to better for town than the current stagnation. If another wagon more promising than this one forms, I will immediately jump to it. I am a broken man and I just want to see the earth spin again.

[numberQ]

Do you think there's a chance they're jester?

[numberQ]

im probably not gonna read this thread unless someone really bullies me into it, but does anyone have any advice on avoiding the jester (or, is there a general consensus on who the jester is)? i dont really wanna get caught playing 3:9 mountainous lol.

VOTE: rh9

oh nvm i just scrolled up the page enchant is 100% jester

Enchant isn't the only person who's trying to jester tell. So that post you scrolled up to, you could probably find similar posts in at least 3/4s of the ISOs in this game.

Though ultimately I don't know if publicly jester hunting is pro-town, considering best case scenario is mafia shooting them

[numberQ]

our best-case scenario is scum shooting jester, but i dont really believe that that will actually happen lol. like, is the jester gonna be looking exceptionally townie or making convincing and cogent cases? and the alternative that enchant proposes, where we all jester-tell so scum's shooting a little blind -- we're flatly not going to catch scum if we adopt this strategy (idk, maybe this is a more controversial opinion than i think? i almost never play jester games). i think we're much better off being open in jester reads to avoid mountainous, than we are praying that scum shoot jester.

i dont get why rh9 isnt voting. very strange to recognize deadline urgency to the point where you say youre fine with being eliminated as town, but not cast at least a semi-arbitrary vote for that same reason.

UNVOTE: mocha
VOTE: rh9

i consider these two pretty interchangeable. ive covered why im not interested in eliminating alyssa right this moment.

Any ideas for who I should be voting?

Bizarre that someone who's been here from the beginning is asking this question to someone who's specifically said they haven't read the thread

You guys should at least let me explain myself instead of flashvoting me ok?

I'll flash vote first then you can explain.

[numberQ]

The voyc wagon is surprising, she has a low post count but I wouldn't call her ISO "coasting". There was some effort there, certainly more than players like Alyssa. Will flipping Voyc help us figure out someone else? I still like the RH9 wagon more, if only because VCA alone will tell us more about the reset of the game state imo.

I droped fear of jester long ago.

Only motivation to not kill Jester is +1 elim on mafia needed.

I think chaos and havok created by simple existence of jest already cost us far more.


We can't just let idiots to let fool us with jestering unpunished.

I don't always agree with Enchant's takes. But this one, I'm starting to believe.

Though I had a thought literally as I was about to hit submit, is this just jester trying to convince us to lim him despite jester telling?

[numberQ]

[snip]

Let's assume i am Jester for example.

Do you think i will be NKed?
How it will influence gamestate if i am elimmed?

NK speculation before it happens seems like a bad idea to me. What is gained by me answering that first question?

The second question, you being jester and then flipping will tell us a lot about all the people faking their jester tells. Whether it means they're scum or not is on a case by case basis. Though that's true of any jester flip.

[numberQ]

I see what you're saying Enchant. Though you're acting like it's incredibly obvious that the jester won't jester tell, and if that's true then would anyone be trying to jester tell at all? I struggle to see a reason to do that besides A) trying to make no one want to kill you, B) throwing up a smokescreen so the real jester might get NKed, or C) just trolling. Besides C, all of those goals would require the person jester telling to think that jester telling has a realistic chance of making them seem like the jester. So ultimately I don't think this is an obvious line of logic, but I do think it's an insightful one.

If there's a believable jester hardclaim, I think there's merit in voting them out.

For now though I'll do this. I like M&M for the lim more than Voyc, and RH9 wagon has dropped off.

VOTE: M&M

[numberQ]

Even after a few games with RH9 sometimes I feel like he's difficult to read. And in a game with a jester all my reads are out of whack anyway.

Though maybe it's moot anyway because M&M is back to the top wagon. Will it last this time?!?!

[numberQ]

There are really only 3 wagons that have been close to viable this near to deadline - you, RH9, and Voyc. So if RH9 isn't the lim today is it you or Voyc or someone else who's even less likely to get a full wagon going on them?

[numberQ]

Are you sure it's tied? I think it's 5-4 with you in the lead. I mean either way my vote would put you in the lead, so...

VOTE: M&M

This is E-1 if I'm counting right, E-2 if not. I did take some melatonin like a half hour ago so it's very possible my math brain isn't good right now.

[numberQ]

Q was already voting M&M.

Both wagons are at E-3. Vanity voters need to pick something actually feasible.

Oh I thought I was voting RH9 when I made that vote, wtf

But with RH9 back in the lead I'll switch back.

VOTE: RH9

I want to say this is E-1 but I'm apparently shit at knowing where votes are. Though assuming Meg's last VC update is accurate I'm

pretty

sure about this being E-1.

[numberQ]

If RH9 is town I'll jump back on the M&M train tomorrow

[numberQ]

I'm

pretty

sure about this being E-1.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

idk what this means. Is there something AI about not being sure where I'm putting a vote?

[numberQ]

Dumb question without context, the context being that I wanted RH9 limmed anyway, so I didn't care where on the wagon my vote was.

[numberQ]

That can only be a net benefit for the site as a whole if this game is anything to go by

[numberQ]

whaat excuse you

Yeah it came off harsher than I intended lol. Probably should have put sarcasm tags

btw idc if rh flips scum. kill pooky

PLEASE

If they're both scum then that's a wild bus, I don't see it.

[numberQ]

Did anime hurt you or something Enchant?

[numberQ]

Remind me to rep out if I ever roll scum with Pooky

[numberQ]

VOTE: Milk & Mocha

Probably gonna ISO esther to see if there's a reason she was NKed, though I suspect it was just because she brought an injection of activity into this game and scum wants all non-jester-telling speech stifled.

[numberQ]

My vote

is

Milk & Mocha

[numberQ]

I will be on V/LA for a few days, have some family stuff that's making it impossible to think about Mafia right now.

[numberQ]

ok I just glanced back at the thread before logging off and what the fuck. that's my only comment.

[numberQ]

I don't know why I was prodded, I was on V/LA yesterday. But anyway I'm here now and I'm more or less caught up.

FB's fake reveal is anti-town but I don't know if it has to come from scum. I can see town doing it to try and protect the actual IC tonight. Though that plan is bad because it risked baiting out the IC today.

Anyway yeah, I'm down with mylo no lims.

VOTE: No lim

[numberQ]

That's hammer I think

[numberQ]

I will cry if that happens. This game has fucked with my head enough.

[numberQ]

I don't even remember what my reads were like earlier in the game. Should probably look back at that.

@mod it takes 4 to eliminate, not 5 right?

yea

[numberQ]

The IC that fake claimed and got force replaced for it?

[numberQ]

Oh I see what you were saying. Is there any reason scum wouldn't be gunning for IC, or does this mean they thought Enchant was IC?

[numberQ]

I'm not sure I even get the logic behind your theory, Meg. I skimmed the last few pages and unless I missed something, Dwlee is the only living person who even reacted to the reveal at all. Then only Meg and myself reacted to the revelation it was faked. I also don't see how it clears FB slot like you said.

[numberQ]

I don't think it's useful rn but you sit nicely in poe territory right now anyway.

Voyc, numberQ, Harley I want full readslists today preferably soon.

Nobody vote without intent, we can lose to one misvote

I tried to find a clip of the Malcolm in the Middle theme song where it's just the part that say "you're not the boss of me now", but I couldn't, so instead I'll just type this out.

[numberQ]

The replacements actually have me pretty lost in this game though. I think to make a real reads list I'll have to skim a few ISOs. And idk if I can do that tonight, so

[numberQ]

Math's read on me sucks. What kind of argument is "go ctrl-f 'know' in this ISO"? The phrase "I don't know" can pretty commonly mean something besides "I literally don't know this", and if you actually look at the majority of 'know' posts in that ISO, you'll see I'm using it more often than not to mean something more like "I don't think this is the case". As far as meta tells go, this is bad.

Now in this game, yes, I literally don't know. Maybe that'll change if I look back at the game but also maybe I'll just try to stay in the current conversation. The game's been slightly more active than it has any other day, weirdly enough.

Anyway I have some pairs in my head that I think are probably not the same alignment, though I'm not sure in which direction. I also don't know how

useful

that is in ELo since we don't have a ton of luxury to test out those pairs, but I'll collect my thoughts and post them either way.

[numberQ]

Actually fuck the T/S thing. I looked back and I don't think those thoughts I mentioned in my last post are going to coalesce into anything. Plus I woke up way too early this morning for a meeting with people in a time zone 6 hours ahead of mine so maybe I just need to simmer on it for a bit more. Probably gonna take a nap after work then try and settle into my review of the game tonight.

GOSH MISELIM IS STRESSING
i dont want to make the wrong choice

tbh i dont have time tonight to dedicate to this and giving out a readslist, will hopefully be able to tomorrow

I don't think your theory holds up really well Meg, I couldn't even check in during that phase, it was so short

Maybe this is just how she talks but the emotion at the start of this post feels manufactured to me. I glanced through Voyc's ISO she does seem to be pressing people and following up in a towny sort of way, but just something about this post is weird to me. Plus I looked through her predecessor's ISO too and datsi strikes me as much scummier.

Anyway that's about all the brain I can muster right now.

[numberQ]

Woke up 10 minutes ago after being sick yesterday, so I glazed over the 2-3 pages I had to catch up on. There were a lot of statistics and theories thrown out by Math and Dwlee and that is not the kind of content just-woke-up/sick brain should be analyzing.

MathBlade deflecting Dwlee's argument that FB could be scum feels a lot like the way he protected his scum buddies in Squid Game. Why can't troll!FB also be scum!FB? imo it's a mistake to flat out refuse the possibility.

[numberQ]

Why do you think Dwlee is +scum with the Math interaction? I keep going back and forth on who I think looks worse out of those 2, and currently it's Math because I'm just not vibing with any of his logic.

[numberQ]

Why do you think Dwlee is +scum with the Math interaction? I keep going back and forth on who I think looks worse out of those 2, and currently it's Math because I'm just not vibing with any of his logic.

What logic are you not vibing with?

Is it that the jester wagon has at least one scum on it? Then by PoE if you’re town you think one of Dwlee or I are scum. Based on the dichotomy you asked about that seems like you vibe with my logic and is a contradiction.

Fake vote Unvote

You both make it hard to decide between you.

It's logic exactly like this I don't vibe with. Me thinking one of you looks worse than the other coming out of an interaction does NOT directly imply that I agree with your PoE. I think the jester wagon analysis is of minimal use because scum didn't know who was jester either.

And I'm still getting a bad smell from the meta argument you used to shade me.

Why do you think Dwlee is +scum with the Math interaction? I keep going back and forth on who I think looks worse out of those 2, and currently it's Math because I'm just not vibing with any of his logic.

What logic are you not vibing with?

Is it that the jester wagon has at least one scum on it? Then by PoE if you’re town you think one of Dwlee or I are scum. Based on the dichotomy you asked about that seems like you vibe with my logic and is a contradiction.

Fake vote Unvote

You both make it hard to decide between you.

This post looks pretty townie.

How is the quoted post townie? It's more dodgy logic, then he fake unvotes which is, uh, fake.

[numberQ]

I'm convinced it's fake because it's literally fake lol. I wasn't commenting on his intentions behind it, just saying that I don't see that much utility in doing the whole fake vote thing. I guess it's just a finger of suspicion of sorts.

As for who I would NOT vote, I think Looker at the moment. I don't really have any strong TRs but I have the least reason to SR Looker iirc. Phone posting right now so I'm mostly going from memory of how their posting has made me feel.

[numberQ]

That was to HQ.

[numberQ]

[snip]

I mean it does.
If you think there is a scum in me / Dwlee then by de facto you agree a scum was on the jester.
If you don’t think there is a scum in me/Dwlee then there is no scum from your POV on the wagon.

So the question is do you think there is a scum on that wagon? What are your thoughts about the initial few days?

You keep bringing up the jester wagon, that's what I'm saying I'm not vibing with. I disagree with your conclusive take on it. I don't think the wagon itself points to scum being on it. My reads list happens to have someone at the bottom of it who was on the wagon, but it has nothing to do with the wagon itself.

So yes, I think there was scum on the wagon, but the way you're framing it is slippery.

As for my thoughts on the initial few days, I mean, that's a lot of pages to cover. And I have posts giving my thoughts in real time throughout. Do you have any specific questions?

I'm convinced it's fake because it's literally fake lol. I wasn't commenting on his intentions behind it, just saying that I don't see that much utility in doing the whole fake vote thing. I guess it's just a finger of suspicion of sorts.

As for who I would NOT vote, I think Looker at the moment. I don't really have any strong TRs but I have the least reason to SR Looker iirc. Phone posting right now so I'm mostly going from memory of how their posting has made me feel.

This post is ugly. Looker is pretty low on my PoE.

So my post is ugly because of your personal POE, which I've already publicly stated as disagreeing with. Okay.

[numberQ]

Math is at the very bottom of my reads list currently.

[numberQ]

Well after reading the 8 pages or so since I was last caught up, the main thing I got out of it was that Math is still scum. It's incredibly obvious to me how fake his confidence is. He's pushing this "logical" narrative like it's the only possibility but it falls apart without the axiom that he's town.

[numberQ]

Well after reading the 8 pages or so since I was last caught up, the main thing I got out of it was that Math is still scum. It's incredibly obvious to me how fake his confidence is. He's pushing this "logical" narrative like it's the only possibility but it falls apart without the axiom that he's town.

Lol.

Putting logic in quotes because you don’t get it is scummy AF.

There is at least one scum on the Jester wagon is a Boolean statement.
It is either true or false.
If false: What were scum doing?
If true then from an outsider’s perspective either you or I are scum or both.

It’s much more probable that you’re scum than an all town wagon on Milk and Mocha.

It’s really that simple.

Misrepresenting my qualms with your logic as me not getting it is scummy AF. Toogeloo was scummy. Firebringer fake claimed IC which is scummy. You are misrepresenting and glossing over points that don't suit you, which is scummy. This slot is scum.

btw if it hasn't been clear, I have intent to vote Math. I was going to say I'll do it if we get down to <24 hours without further consensus but it looks like the deadline is postponed again, so idk.

[numberQ]

You are bullshitting so fucking hard right now. It's actually pissing me off.

So you’d vote me over spewed scum?

Who spewed? You mean when Firebringer fake claimed IC and you blustered through defending his actions?

You’re telling me you can’t answer yes or no questions?

What was the yes or no question?

This is what you’re saying.
You’re welcome to reach a different conclusion but the “I don’t get it” when I just ask a simple yes/no question and that’s it is pretty terrible.

Yeah go ahead and keep putting words in my mouth. When did I

EVER

say I don't get your logic? Literally every single time it's come up, I have DISAGREED with it, not "didn't get" it. I even had to go back and ISO myself to make sure.

And again, wtf yes or no question did you ask me that I haven't answered?

[numberQ]

The anger is coming from your extreme arrogance. You accuse me of ignoring things or not reading, but then you put words in my mouth and ignore things I've said.

I answered your question about scum being on the jester wagon here, with the caveat that the question itself is leading and slippery. I do think there was scum on it, because I think you are scum. But I do NOT think there

had

to be scum on it. In other words, I disagree with your reasoning that an all town wagon was unlikely. I'm saying I have other reasons to scumread you, it has little if anything to do with the wagon itself. I don't know how many different ways I can explain this.

You’re expressing frustration over being “caught for the wrong reasons” or moon logic.

Your post here with the anger tells me you’re not reading.

Is there a point to posts like this beyond provoking an emotional reaction out of me? You're literally just making up reasons for me being frustrated while completely disregarding what I'm saying.

Who do you think is scum out of Meg and Koba Numbers?

More likely Meg, but I feel like I always scumread Meg in every game. Koba/Voyc haven't given me many scum vibes though.

[numberQ]

Also why would a lack of quickhammer implicate Koba? It would imply they're wrong, and town can be wrong.

[numberQ]

If town votes town theoretically all 3 mafia can vote and game is over

Oh, duh. My brain wasn't working when I asked that question apparently.

[numberQ]

The anger is coming from your extreme arrogance. You accuse me of ignoring things or not reading, but then you put words in my mouth and ignore things I've said.

I answered your question about scum being on the jester wagon here, with the caveat that the question itself is leading and slippery. I do think there was scum on it, because I think you are scum. But I do NOT think there

had

to be scum on it. In other words, I disagree with your reasoning that an all town wagon was unlikely. I'm saying I have other reasons to scumread you, it has little if anything to do with the wagon itself. I don't know how many different ways I can explain this.

You’re expressing frustration over being “caught for the wrong reasons” or moon logic.

Your post here with the anger tells me you’re not reading.

Is there a point to posts like this beyond provoking an emotional reaction out of me? You're literally just making up reasons for me being frustrated while completely disregarding what I'm saying.

Who do you think is scum out of Meg and Koba Numbers?

More likely Meg, but I feel like I always scumread Meg in every game. Koba/Voyc haven't given me many scum vibes though.

Except this still isn’t an explanation.
This is the same logical contradiction. Just with anger on it.

You can’t argue I am both scum and no scum on the wagon.
So if you think I am scum then there has to be scum on the wagon, as it would be me.

If you argue no scum you again dodged the question of what scum would be doing.
At this point it’s no longer productive to keep engaging as I don’t believe this is in good faith.

You should be able to follow the yes no map based on knowing you then do what is asked.

Imho Numbers and Looker are both scum and almost nothing will change my mind.

Are you reading my posts?

I did not say there was no scum on the jester wagon.

I said there was scum on the wagon, and it was you.

I said that I did not factor the wagon itself into that read at all, whereas you were using the wagon as the basis for there being scum between myself or Dwlee (pre-reveal). That is the part of your logic I've continued to take issue with.

It is so rich seeing you say you don't think this is in good faith because you have constantly and consistently ignored, misrepresented, or twisted what I've said.

[numberQ]

A point Numbers has ignored 3-4 times now

All I can do is laugh at this point. I'm being trolled aren't I?

On the off chance this isn't all a joke: I HAVE NOT IGNORED THIS POINT. THE REASON I DIDN'T ANSWER IT IS BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING UP ME SAYING THERE WAS NO SCUM ON THE WAGON.

[numberQ]

I can really only take this game in small bursts right now. I don't think I've ever gotten this worked up over a game. I think it's the combination of the jester fucking with my head for 3 days, weird activity pace the entire game has had, the thousands of replacements, and it all culminates with Math here gaslighting me or ignoring half the content of my posts or I have no idea.

[numberQ]

Didn't mean to be away for so long, a looming deadline at work has kept me scrambling madly the past 3 days. But the deadline has passed so I'm planning to get back into this tomorrow. On the upside, I've cooled down and I'm going to try and approach things less emotionally.

[numberQ]

ngl, I hated this game. Jesters are bad. MathBlade made me very angry. Work projects got fucking insane the past week or two.

[numberQ]

@Math, sorry I got upset. I was (and still am tbh) operating on very little sleep, and this game was already getting on my last nerve. Not my proudest reaction to a scumread admittedly.

[numberQ]

Thanks for modding Kerset! I really appreciated the replacement guide in later VCs

ngl, I hated this game. Jesters are bad. MathBlade made me very angry. Work projects got fucking insane the past week or two.

I am sorry I angered you.

On another site a scum reacted similarly and almost escaped so I tend to block out AtE

I just was really tunneled on the 90% likely and it then bit me on the butt and poisoned everything else

Nothing to apologize for, I blame my own sleep-deprived ass for taking it the way I did