open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Prism]

Skitter picked 6 in a previous run as town (while S_S selected 9 as both alignments), but I'll let things sit for now.

[Prism]

LMFAO THAT WAS FAST

[Prism]

I mean, I wanted to push a point I felt was important at the time. It didn’t really matter the past treatment or the weird distance in games.

You’re not worth the effort of a scumread currently, which... don’t really think is worth disappointment. Of interacting/as a whole you are or else I wouldn’t attempt to interact with you. I thought that was clear but it probably wasn’t, apologies.

I appreciate this and the further clarification.

I still posit that dismissing the past treatment and intentional distance as something that "doesn't really matter" is really bizarre. I think the "not worth the effort of a scumread" is just a restatement of that idea.

It is foundational to our interactions in games and was weaponized to great effect as scum. I think it not only matters but is absolutely alignment indicative.

I don't really want to go back and forth about this for now, so you don't have to respond. For my part, I'll revisit it later after further thought.

[Prism]

I also hate how I've had to spam with one-offs because of my phone. I'll try to set up a hotspot so I can use my laptop and consolidate posts/do more indepth work tomorrow.

I of course will be the one driving, one hand on the wheel one hand perusing two hundred tabs

[Prism]

I've become increasingly less sold on my Cakez townlean, pretty rote stuff to fake, but we will see. Going out of his way to tell me we matched rubbed me the wrong way as I served not as an adamant defender but a slight one in Warehouse 13. He might be hoping for the same here.

Might need to meta dive for the Pooky stuff for more recent stuff.

[Prism]

The funniest part is I said "I really don't want people to get confused over the negative, I'll capitalize and italicize" only to accidentally leave in the original and make it worse.

"I do think with IV that is is very hard to

NOT

pick out the small things and ignore the full context unfortunately", ie. picking out singular things is the only way to stay sane with IV

[Prism]

@catboi you're up, track through the flow trap progression+NSG interactions in Sleepless ISO and collate it into a single post. Keep on mind Sleepless thought NSG knew main.

Thanks, not paying you for it.

[Prism]

I have a few postgame comments.

1. It is astounding to me how the first reaction of the postgame is for all 4 players to discuss how it wasn't really their fault, it was everyone else's.

Generally this speaks for itself. It is impressive to me that the loss was no one's fault, especially with such a passive scumteam and two losing votes from town players. Building coalitions is one of the most crucial elements of the game. If one of your 450 posts suggested the right team or close to it, congratulations, may it comfort you til your dying days.

2. Cakez's inactivity was a detriment to the town and elims like his were good for the game.

Cakez had the single best set of reads in the game. He's Cakez but he was better this game than you, whoever you might be. He gave plenty of content and is a tough read but is absolutely not the party responsible for losing the game.

3. Town's draft phase was terrible.

Town had the top 7 picks. The two best roles (cop and vig) went undrafted. Andante had a fundamental misunderstanding, Mare wanted to have fun, but collectively we failed massively. Speaking a bit for my own choice, I put a lot of thought into it. I intentionally aimed for the middle with the idea of grabbing a niche role. I wanted a low-power but decisive PR to both

dodge

a night 1 kill and force a kill later in the game, and by "dodge" I mean "heavily disincentivize". By going after a claimed low-power PR, scum leaves PR, tracker, JK, etc. on the table, but by saving the shot for later day I become essentially a forced NK.

4. That Pooky strategic replace-out was garbage.

I already took him to task for this in the dead thread but I stuck to play and that replaceout was 100% salt over getting caught. Townreading the replace-out over treating it as null as my own mistake, but I remain salty over replacing out because you are upset at getting (correctly) pushed.

[Prism]

For my own part, I played like garbage and I'm sorry for it.

I was very conflicted Day 1. I started out okay, then went way off the deep end after I wrongly townread the Pooky slot. I had the private cheap fear that every wagon at end of day was town, and especially thought the midway votes were criminally bad, but rationally I thought both Sleepless and flow trap were 50%+ to be scum. Sleepless I determined was more likely of the two and brought my full force to bear, and obviously that was a mistake.

My reads on dying were also garbage so it was probably for the best that I died. I had catboi as scum, then skitter into some random ordering of flow trap, Cakez, S_S, Mare, and Datisi. S_S was in the upper half, as was Mena. I wish I could say I would have powered through catboi, but I inherently distrust my read on him given a poor record and probably would have just let him sit and try to get mechanical confirmation instead.

[Prism]

Finally, I actually did have a lot of fun this game while I was alive. Bantering about NASCAR, Elmer's, and Seeing Stars was a ton of fun. It is regretful that all of town, myself included, probably indulged in the latter two hobbies as much as I did in adolescence.

[Prism]

From my minimal look into day one, that was just as prevalent in day one as every other day

I disagree in the strongest possible terms.

Day 1 you had multiple wagons on town, all driven by town and ferociously fought over, while the 3 scum sat back and did nothing. There was plenty of information to be gleaned, though the difficulty is up for debate.

[Prism]

Well before the deadline. I 1v1ed the Pooky slot and town (incl. myself) failed to interpret it correctly. You had Cakez in numerous fights. You had cat and skitter in a minor scrap early. You had several players successfully pressure Sleepless across several real life days, only to fail to interpret that pressure or its result correctly. You had plenty of pressure on your own slot across several real life days, but this failed to reap rewards due to its absence. You had significant pressure on Midway throughout the day, ramping up near deadline, which I thought was criminal, but it definitely exist.

[Prism]

boomer finally found the change avatar button

finally found the written instructions i mailed him back in 2012 i guess

[Prism]

You are welcome to take from the commentary and feedback whatever you like; you do not have anything to answer to me on and owe me nothing.

My final statement is that focusing on what other players, individually or collectively, did to deny you the win, is likely to result in another loss. Such statements are always best used as premises for actual individual takeaways and corrective measures.

[Prism]

Then my opinion matters not; feel free to discard it. You owe me nothing.

[Prism]

FWIW S_S I'm still sorry about the Newbie queue comment, even though it was predicated on a town-world now negated, I did feel it went too far. I stick to attacking play but often use stronger terms than necessary.

[Prism]

While my reads were garbage and I was filling the game with NASCAR & Nonsense, I did have a lot of fun while I was active.

In particular, I had a very good time disappointing NSG, catfighting with skitter/Datisi, barking at Pooky with Cakez, and giving catboi homework.

[Prism]

Huh, knew this sounded familiar. Probably not a pattern.

Koba plz dont rep into games that i'm in

[Prism]

Reading that scumthread and how Pooky spend several days wondering whether or not to 1v1 me, setting up for it if he decided to flip the switch, and then had the audacity to tap out when he got hardpunished for the indecision/setup without followthrough.

I accept the apology and probably shouldn't rehash it but this is just wild to read.

[Prism]

i thought about it in the shower

and i think enchant should just go for it and guilty datisi

This is the most remarkable post in the game, haven't heard of him doing this in years. Thought it was a Halley's Comet type situation.

[Prism]

I'm just stunned reading this. I expected Pooky to legitimately think I was being dumb, that he was acting around me how he thought he would as town, my points are wrong and stupid and that's why it's going to be toxic, etc.

Nope, that early aggression towards me was planned and the lack of followup intentionally chosen as scum-motivated moves, and my call-out was for exactly that disconnected approach. I am not sure whether the fact that I believe it was unintentionally strategic makes it better or worse.

[Prism]

Just the absolute audacity to sit around chatting about how he should 1v1 me, it'd be fun, maybe intentionally tilt me too, set up to initiate the 1v1 on his term whenever he wants, and then flop and cry foul when I pinned down the disconnected progression precisely and completely slammed him on my terms instead.

I am actually so fucking salty reading the scum PT for this, before I had all sorts of excuses in my head on your (Pooky's) behalf that made it easy to accept the apology but what the actual fuck dude

[Prism]

Honestly I don't think there's anything else to say; I accepted the dead PT apology and will calm down later, build a bridge and get over it again

Just going back and reading the receipts and realizing that it was so, so much worse than I though has me very salty. I expected something like "caught for the wrong reasons". I fully expected to be mostly or completely wrong in my reasoning and to have that be a source of frustration.

Nope, I was more right than I ever envisioned being

ever

in a mafia game. I tried very hard to limit the scope to exactly that wonky progression without getting personal, and the issue was "caught for exactly the right reasons" but apparently at the wrong time for you personally.

There's nothing further for you to really do, I really just need to vent over it for a second.

[Prism]

Aight, I've calmed down, in my book we're good again but there will always be a small part of me somewhere harboring salt

[Prism]

You spent a good portion of the scum PT discussing 1v1ing me and how fun it'd be, and you set up to do so. You do this precisely because you are not a town vig. You got cold feet and decided not to go through with it.

2279 picks up exactly on this discrepancy and change of plans and nails you to the wall for it. It limits this criticism exactly and I spend the next several post trying to keep you focused on this game and my specific criticism of your progression.

Your last ingame post before replace-out is about how you would never consider doing exactly what you spent several posts spitballing and considering in the scum PT. You seem to be advocating for this view now as well.

It is again absurd to me how eager and ready you were to 1v1 me until I initiated it instead of you, highlighted the exactly discrepancy these strategic choices created in their progression on me, and suddenly

now

1v1ing me became the definition of unacceptable game toxicity.

[Prism]

It'd be one thing if you were trying to emulate your town game start to finish, but that was not the case. Your interactions with me were predicated in your mind on being scum start to finish. You relished the idea of 1v1ing me, tilting me, and having a shitfight with me in the scum PT and angled to do it on a dime.

You can't have it both ways with "but that's how I'd behave as town" when you are strategically making choices around me that are entirely strategic and predicated on your being scum. My issue in the game was not one endpoint or read but the progression and the scum PT shows it was spot on.

All of this is secondary to begin with and not the primary issue.

[Prism]

I think 141 in the scum PT says it all:

probably

maybe I'll scumcase Faker for fun

lol i was considering that but wasn't sure it was worth the potential blowback

I can do it in a really obnoxious and trolly way

This is lighthearted but is not just a random joke. This is a legitimate idea and you'd made posts in the game to accommodate for it.

Suddenly, when I forced the 1v1 instead a few days later after the lack of followup, it became the definition of unfun, toxic, no one would ever choose this and I'm replacing out because I'd never choose this, and an issue even as I repeatedly try to de-escalate and get you to focus on my substantive criticism.

I don't really want to talk about this further. I think the gymnastics and self-delusion here to justify this decision are absurd.

[Prism]

Aight.