open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Kaiji]

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

[Kaiji]

My brief skim reveals that Datisi is likely town

[Kaiji]

[Kaiji]

[Kaiji]

My further skim reveals that Andante is either in their loltown meta or scum - something that will become clear once I actually read the whole game. This will gain a vote from them onto me and I do not care.

[Kaiji]

Ok replacing into 4k posts isn't exactly the most fun thing. If someone gives me a vague summary of events that would be very awesome.

[Kaiji]

I don't like Pooky's entrance so dumping my vote on his slot until further notice VOTE: Menalque

[Kaiji]

i read through like 5 pages of d1 and i think:

Andante, Datisi(from reading recent posts upon replace in), and SirCakez slots are more than confidently town here.

[Kaiji]

I'm locktowning Datisi until further notice btw and there's nothing anyone can do to stop me.

[Kaiji]

Reading flow trap I think they've evolved enough as a player that my previous meta on them is useless - which is quite a shame.

[Kaiji]

ok really honest here but i actually dont even know how many players this game has nor how many scum LOL

so im here like rolling the dice on which it is


would be a good time to read the OP post more thoroughly

[Kaiji]

Datisi(from reading recent posts upon replace in)

well this is either tmi or bullshit, which is it?

I'm sure you already know who my main is so neither

[Kaiji]

oh we have 14 players, the n1 vig wasn't a stupid shot. i retract my inner thought of "fuck you vigs ruining everything n1"

[Kaiji]

I don't like Pooky's entrance so dumping my vote on his slot until further notice VOTE: Menalque

What about it didn't you like

everytime pooky makes jokes about how he's scum it makes me feel a fire in my veins that makes me want to eliminate him at any cost because i have never seen him do so as town.

[Kaiji]

datisi relax i have like 53125 other players to go through get in line

[Kaiji]

ok fun exercise: who do people thing the vig kill was and who do people thing the scum kill was?

I have no idea because i was not around for eod1 so-> lets shoot.

[Kaiji]

[Kaiji]

Currently based on player meta I would believe IV is a vig shot and faker is a scum shot

[Kaiji]

nah it was a town vig and i know exactly who the town vig is lmfao

[Kaiji]

i read some more on a hunch in someone's iso and its so blatant and the draft lines up LMFAO

[Kaiji]

obvious town to *you* doesn't mean obvious town to someone *else*

[Kaiji]

ok scum 100% wanted faker dead which we can all agree with so im going to see who they really wanted dead throughout the day


fun fact: no one PR hunts ever on n1, its a myth. its always about how that person's dayplay will affect you.

[Kaiji]

I think it's funny that Prism and Andante probably knew eachother in the past but played ignorant of eachother here. Just a random thought rereading

[Kaiji]

Okay, I'm in gear now.

Would like to hear more from skitter about staying on flow. The Pooky announcement has been replaced so I can talk about it.

Pooky has previously spoken about the integrity of replacing out:

I have never replaced out in 18 years and it would be highly unfair for the scum team for me to replace out.

One thing I really hate when I play scum is when I maneuver town into losing positions and then someone just presses the eject button to completely change the game state.

it's bullshit and completely unfair for game integrity.

Here, the replaceout stemmed directly from me pushing him. This is the definition of a strategic replacement, I don't think it's in his wheelhouse, and the only way I can think of it is a combination of extreme salt over getting caught and both of his partners encouraging him to take care of himself and leave rather than suffer in a Catch-22. I think he'd just take the L, even if he thought I was stupid and wrong.

yep yep

how 2 know ur on the right track 101

My want to bury pooky slot increases

[Kaiji]

My playstyle is unique enough that it isn't hard to figure out if you do know me unless I intentionally limit my posting.

[Kaiji]

It wouldn't be useful for you.

[Kaiji]

ok random but i mixed up skitter and NSG and thought i was skitter for a bit LOL

[Kaiji]

typing up a nice PoE, mostly just eliminating who i townread. I don't think Ihave a solid "scumread" here -> but I will start with mena slot and go from there.

[Kaiji]

aight -

I have a rough PoE coming::


I like:
Datisi, Andante, Flow Trap slot Cakez

I am mostly neutral on: Mare, Skitter, midwaybear

*raises eyebrows* : catboi, something_smart

my veins burn: mena

[Kaiji]

Because vibes.

Tell me why I shouldn't instead of discrediting my reads.

The way cakez approached the game comes from a town cakez mindset - where I believe he is evaluating things in the start and just stops playing once there are too many posts.

flow trap i just have a good vibe read on him i have consistency reading him- while i think he has improved at mafia in general, I feel confident binning him as town here and also a good portion of that is a gamestate read where I think his EoD wagon was scum driven and it was TVT.

[Kaiji]

or rather - not scum driven but just not a Good Wagon.

[Kaiji]

I am not discrediting your reads, I am asking you about your reasoning. Don't see why you're getting defensive over that.

Who's the scum driving flow trap's wagon? How do you have the context to know this if you've been skimming? A good deal of the votes on them were either flipped town or people you're townreading.

or rather - not scum driven but just not a Good Wagon.

[Kaiji]

It was mainly something prism said about the flow trap wagon that I agreed with wrt how the FT wagon was just Bad and I agreed.

I personally have been able to pinpoint scummy things from flow when he did flip scum and when he was town it was just a null smorgasbord of posts when trying to read conventionally.

[Kaiji]

atm I don't trust you so I don't feel comfortable answering questions when I'm not as informed - sorry.

It feels like you're digging to find stuff to use against me rather than solve anything.

[Kaiji]

i was mainly sheeping other people's reads who i trusted when reading thru like Prism's who is confirmed town

[Kaiji]

skimming your iso shows a linked thought progression regarding this point though - so one of my nulls is now likely scum and I'm just being paranoid.

[Kaiji]

Oh I'm definitely bluffing my reads to be more potent than they are to get people to sheep me but by no means are they not genuine lol

[Kaiji]

honestly i shoulda read Mare's iso before i created my poe -> swap Mare and catboi in my reads and its my current pov.

[Kaiji]

I like the ascetic of an alt to "roleplay" as a specific thing.

[Kaiji]

I'm sure you already know who my main is so neither

what is the point of playing on an alt if you are going to do this

can you explain what you saw in my slot as towny?

[Kaiji]

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

do i know who u are?

Yes

[Kaiji]

The way cakez approached the game comes from a town cakez mindset - where I believe he is evaluating things in the start and just stops playing once there are too many posts.

how is this different than scum-him who never got caught up?

I actually dont have an answer for this - it isn't. And I'll honor a more thorough read for ya though.
What makes you sure they *can't* be town? And who would they be scum with here?

[Kaiji]

Oh I'm definitely bluffing my reads to be more potent than they are to get people to sheep me but by no means are they not genuine lol

@skitter

Im mostly feeling things out and spewing takes to see how they're received since im low info. Unfortunately i don't think I'll be able to do a holistic analysis since I'm out with my partner today and there's a Winter storm ~ but if people can present good info I can parse that better.

[Kaiji]

ok so you're basically saying that that was a Hot Take to get reacitons and not necessarily based on anything?

Was also my gut read on the situation but yes mainly wanted to see who was against calling eod1 tvt for info

[Kaiji]

ALYSSA TOWN

[Kaiji]

I'm high as helll and will not be elaborating

[Kaiji]

glancing at midway's ISO I don't exactly feel town vibes from him so I am not going to get in the way of this wagon.

I think scum midway spews mare and flow town here and possibly cakez scum

[Kaiji]

ydrasse pls

[Kaiji]

oh right ->

catboi + skitter + datisi + alyssa + Andante is my current core of town I have progressed to thus far.

[Kaiji]

i think there's viability for cakez scum as catboi said but I also believe them being town is also viable so yep

midway / cakez / SS could be a team based on what i've read so far and assuming midway flips red, but that feels too simple/easy

[Kaiji]

why unvote on a doc claim when roleblocker is in the same pair?

did the dayplay improve for yall or?

[Kaiji]

I want to commit to one of mena/midway/cakez here - but none of them scream scum to me other than pooky's posts which i could easily be clowning myself on.

i'm like 99% sure andante is town here and midway voting there feels like a lolvote to antispew because theyre locked into being in the awkward position of a claimed doc.

cakez as far as im concerned if theyre hanging on the low of the PoE they aren't going to be useful as town anyways due to their habits of never catching up late game so I'm thinking of trusting this PoE and consolidating here: VOTE: Cakez

[Kaiji]

Its known that the bracket is in the game because of sleepless, i dont think that's indicative of anything for andante

Andante said she she wasnt rb'd

VOTE: cakez
Maybe catboi is better idk

i think catboi has a towny train of thought even if there are points of it that feel wrong.

there was something I noticed the other night where it was like their thought process is consistent with having a stance that is traceable from d1 and I think that's extremely town indicative. i can't really explain it because its subtle but maybe if you ISO him it'll be clear.

[Kaiji]

I will say that whoever is scum is doing a wonderful job matching the pace needed to avoid scrutiny if my PoE is wrong.

I do think my current solid townreads contains at most 1 scum though. If not, well, I'll be around to reeval later lmao

[Kaiji]

midway / cakez / SS could be a team based on what i've read so far and assuming midway flips red, but that feels too simple/easy

This aged well lol

do you consider midway to be clear?

[Kaiji]

ok so i actually read the setup info and scum indeed can communicate during the pregame phases if I'm reading this correctly - and thus people with duplicate numbers are likely unpaired / less sus. idk i thought i had a brainwave but then realized that scum can't see what numbers town chooses so its like only a mild advantage lol but at the very least like same numbers are unlikely together.

midway, can you tell us what your philosophy was behind choosing the doc?

[Kaiji]

also I hate relying on PRs to win a game

all that does is allow towns to win games where they just play bad and don't deserve it

I'm glad you're blessed with far-above-average town play but it's a bit rude to call anyone not playing at that level bad and undeserving of a win

the post was pretty based - dayplay over nightplay errrdayyyyyyy

[Kaiji]

midway / cakez / SS could be a team based on what i've read so far and assuming midway flips red, but that feels too simple/easy

This aged well lol

do you consider midway to be clear?

@SS

[Kaiji]

VOTE: Something Smart

Splitting wagons at 24 hour mark? yeah,


i'll consolidate but maybe people wanna consider ... here

[Kaiji]

But if it aged poorly(your implication) - after the fact that midway claimed doc -> clearly that means you consider them town, correct?

[Kaiji]

also I hate relying on PRs to win a game

all that does is allow towns to win games where they just play bad and don't deserve it

I'm glad you're blessed with far-above-average town play but it's a bit rude to call anyone not playing at that level bad and undeserving of a win

I think there's a misunderstanding on what bad town play is to me

the spectrum of town play to me is how well the scumteam have to play in order to beat them; individual player strength has little to nothing to do with it

that is a good definition and im glad to have u locktowned until further notice

[Kaiji]

also I hate relying on PRs to win a game

all that does is allow towns to win games where they just play bad and don't deserve it

I'm glad you're blessed with far-above-average town play but it's a bit rude to call anyone not playing at that level bad and undeserving of a win

I think there's a misunderstanding on what bad town play is to me

the spectrum of town play to me is how well the scumteam have to play in order to beat them; individual player strength has little to nothing to do with it

that is a good definition and im glad to have u locktowned until further notice

what

how do the two thoughts correlate at all

yes

[Kaiji]

unrelated, my high ass already locktowned for something else that i can't remember but i trust it LOL

[Kaiji]

I don't think his vote will stick if an actual wagon forms, actually. But that's if they log in lol

Nothing about it screams "unaligned" to me.

[Kaiji]

[Kaiji]

eh i can see town andante assuming that
VOTE: SS

ok

like

i did a little research

Search for "something_smart" in midway's ISO and look how nice and friendly midway interacts with SS


midway just spewed himself and SS as scum

frankly doesnt matter which order we do it in but ye


that 180 flip is a distance and we know ittttttttt

[Kaiji]

I dont really want to flip ss today

the countercase is brave and controversial, but does nothing to convince the mob.

[Kaiji]

no, i'm the whole mob

[Kaiji]

midway is like a funny clown who showed up in his little clowncar with a little bear in the backseat

[Kaiji]

none of your points are outside of SS's scumrange and in fact a couple are firmly in it, namely being mildly grumpy about something they perceive as wrong is 1000% in SS's scumrange

[Kaiji]

alyssa can you sanity check my current push onto a midway/SS team here - I think I'm onto something with this pairing. 3rd atm I'm looking at cakez.

[Kaiji]

Well that's the point i find to be most town-indicative, and i'm not even sure you went back and read the context

I did and I'm even less convinced than by your own word.

[Kaiji]

and why are you voting me for this

Because I felt like you were trying to threaten me with an inaccurate comparison.

I don't actually think it's scum indicative, it was mostly a protest vote.

I can see this as *nullifying* your meta point there, but to call this response towny? no.


also SS loves chatting it up with his scum buds and throwing around banter, I've seen it before.

[Kaiji]

alyssa can you sanity check my current push onto a midway/SS team here - I think I'm onto something with this pairing. 3rd atm I'm looking at cakez.

I don't have any opinion on them being scum together atm

who do you want flipped

[Kaiji]

It's much more convincing to me that midway treated SS a certain way all game, and when midway was forced to claim under duress, he planted a vote onto SS. By no means was there an effort here to "leverage" a pr claim onto a "likely VT", and I frankly find SS's points about this to be bullshit.

I'm not budging between SS/Midway and I'm fine satiating people's want to not flip a doc claim - but I have no qualms about it myself due to the dayplay not matching up.

[Kaiji]

i think we should flip cakez today

I've kept this to myself but i had a switch flip in my head where I think that in a cakez town world you are partners with midway and SS here especially based how you are trying your uptmost hardest to divert the wagon away. and which wagon would be most convenient to divert to if they flip town for a scum skitter?

Cakez.

It allows to reset the gamestate and shift focus elsewhere.

I'm not going to fight this late into the dayphase - but I wanted to out my observation here - I have my eye here.


I was very pinged by how you described your reasons for townreading SS because they were very ~poor~ indicators of SS being town, having experience myself catching scum SS.


Either I'm a genius here or not and the flips will show what the reality is.

I said I townread you -> you were a name on that list that I was trying to "pocket" in a way to make you feel comfortable. I'm pulling the rug out now. I am afraid of being nightkilled. I don't know what it is but I now don't feel that I want cakez flipped here today.



dear potential townies reading this in the future: if cakez DOES flip town and I'm nightkilled - absolutely hard follow my theory on scum team until it ends up being wrong. and remember -> dayplay>mech play always <3 luv u all please make good choices.

[Kaiji]

I also remembered that a specific point is that I don't like the push to label the vig as a scum vig -> I have a specific read on who the vig is and it is very much in line with a likely person able to have it and use it in the way they did as town.

No one nightkills IV on N1. That's not a solve heavy slot.

There's just a lot of icky things I feel from skitter slot and its subtle, which - kudos to their scumplay to not being overt - but I feel that when analyzing what I feel reality is - it crashes down around her.


I'm keeping my vote strictly between Midway/SS today.

[Kaiji]

Granted - there is a small possibility I am getting caught up in only the people who are actually posting and its the inactives, including cakez - but based on what happened between SS/Midway I am doubtful, and well, midway IS an inactive too.

[Kaiji]

Nah we're done interacting for this dayphase, I'm not filling up the thread with a back and forth where I'm fairly sure the other side is interacting in bad faith. Present info and we can talk - but thus far you've made claims without evidence.

I don't think cakez is town necessarily, I just think I have a good team read on my hands.

what I see from midway talking about doc is moreso a setup to claim doc - it's primarily d2 he makes the softs - and to explain why you are alive. There was suspicion starting to come towards midway and the IV flip implicated him slightly -> thus he has to set something up early.

I don't see a reason why he does it as town at the stages he does, its just performative.


The fact you're so aware of it is quite interesting.

I think your points are soft and uninspiring and unwilling to commit to more than a couple strong opinions at a time.


Prove me wrong, or step aside.

[Kaiji]

I also remembered that a specific point is that I don't like the push to label the vig as a scum vig -> I

have a specific read on who the vig is and it is very much in line with a likely person able to have it and use it in the way they did as town.

No one nightkills IV on N1. That's not a solve heavy slot.

There's just a

lot of icky things I feel from skitter slot and its subtle, whic

h - kudos to their scumplay to not being overt - but I feel that when analyzing what I feel reality is - it crashes down around her.


I'm keeping my vote strictly between Midway/SS today.

Bolded: disagree, and iv and faker were the two most townread slots in the game (and if you disagree, its cuz you werent here day1), and none of the potential vig slots shoot either as town i'm ~95% certain

Italics: if you have issues you'd like me to address, plz raise them, instead of being vaguely wishy-washy

ok well since you want to try to pretend around it


andante is first draft pick

andante has a hard on for an IV scum read


andante hero shoots IV and then daystart here talks about the IV shot and sheeping IV.



its painfully obvious - and I'm not letting this narrative be set in stone and allow andante to be wagoned in the future.

[Kaiji]

then they fakeclaimed ROFL

[Kaiji]

hold up since when does cakez ever look at NKA lol

[Kaiji]

i have questions and theyre all for people who refuse to post

[Kaiji]

i'm having a brainwave and it involves a different scumteam universe

[Kaiji]

andante -> chose scum vig


but claimed tracker as their scum partner chose jailkeeper as a roleblocker.


thoughts?

[Kaiji]

fwiw i have had andante have a scum vig on their team and that team made the extra kills in a way that made me strongly believe andante was a town vig. she was scum that game and snowed me up until i got mislimmed(partially by catboi no less smh my head)

[Kaiji]

gonna be revealing my alt but sure, it's one of her best scumgames even tho she ended up losing

[Kaiji]

i mean my main*

[Kaiji]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ame-Thread
^ she is Pony here

[Kaiji]

catboi is Gira

[Kaiji]

ok i give up im out of ideas i just want midway flipped here i think this game is easily solved once we reach massclaim at least VOTE: midway

[Kaiji]

Who wants the neighborhood.

wtf i want it

[Kaiji]

i fucking love hoods

[Kaiji]

i hardclaim vt, nsg tried to pick vig(a bad role)


now i never get killed easy

[Kaiji]

now neighborizer - thats a good fuckin role

[Kaiji]

i find my voice and vote much more powerful than a supposed "power" role >:)

wow i managed to do it even though im only alive in this game

[Kaiji]

Whats the deadline timer i dont wanna do a rushed decision before im off work if i dont have to.

Honestly leaning cakez here if i had to

[Kaiji]

VOTE: cakez so i dont forget

[Kaiji]

btw i think if there is no town vig -> there's a PGO in the top bracket of draft picks.

there's a reason scum chose multitasking

[Kaiji]

i think its pretty obvious who faker would have been on n1 based on the draft order btw. top of the list is prime watcher material.

[Kaiji]

It is just logical to watch someone high on the draft order.

[Kaiji]

that statement is ignorant of gamestate analysis of faker's position in the game

[Kaiji]

its d3?

[Kaiji]

no you're baiting me

[Kaiji]

you're projecting how you would use that role as town to make it seem like it is the way faker would use it lol


we have 2 kills n1, we have to consider any angle


Especially in a world where midway is scum, which I believe he is - faker doesn't get nightkilled here by scum n1.


trying to get a guilty on what one thinks will be a hit is a good idea.



eh but maybe i'm too crazy here.


but @catboi this is for you -> listen to what i'm saying here if i get flipped tonight as a vt claim especially.

if cakez flips town [SS, skitter, midway] is my legacy poe to pursue d3

[Kaiji]

i'm just really not a fan of midway's weird pivot on SS' slot and it makes me confident that that is never TvT

[Kaiji]

if midway were confirmed town -> mostly ignore what i've said because those conclusions are primarily based on that.


but also it doesn't necessarily clear SS/Skitter in that world. I'd say skitter can be most confidently town in a scum!cakez world.


maybe i'm just tinfoiling the wrong places bc i did spec chat tunnel skitter when they were town so lol


idk food for thought - consider all the possibilities blah blah, try not to visit skitter this game if cakez flips town etc etc.

[Kaiji]

how do you read skitter, SS?

[Kaiji]

i agree on not liking midway's play here but he is Self Resolving or something so whatever

but also i saw cakez being online while he was at y-1 so i am trying to feel optimistic about this flip

he did very similar during scp upick, where a scum was at e-1 and he wasn't looking at thread at all. he ended up being solved as town there.

(it was a very big point to suspecting him in mlimlo)

[Kaiji]

i agree on not liking midway's play here but he is Self Resolving or something so whatever

but also i saw cakez being online while he was at y-1 so i am trying to feel optimistic about this flip

he did very similar during scp upick, where a scum was at e-1 and he wasn't looking at thread at all. he ended up being solved as town there.

(it was a very big point to suspecting him in mlimlo)

so in short i feel very 50/50 on this flip especially bc of the apathy from 3 other slots alongside him.

[Kaiji]

oh pooky is town


cakez is also town so rip


so mena slot is town



so i was right about trying to prevent a tvt



fuck yall i aint ever compromising this shit always happens

[Kaiji]

datisi
mena
catboi
andante
alyssa


i will now be championing this towncore until i find my new tinfoil

[Kaiji]

flip in SS/Midway please tomorrow and lim the other if one flips scum

i trust in people to sheep my reads as a flipped nightkilled vt


also i pray that if anyone got the venge/n3 vig that they chose the venge side lol

[Kaiji]

oh pooky is town


cakez is also town so rip

i am confused where this is coming from

i went thru pooky iso to look at cakez interactions because i had a brainwave about pokemon theme game

[Kaiji]

If I die before I get to play chess I'll be sad.

yeah remember to definitely neighborize andante tonight (;

[Kaiji]

jailkeeper and n3 vig ones

[Kaiji]

oh and the vig

[Kaiji]

but only the vig/pgo are confirmed to exist rn

[Kaiji]

oh, ascetic cop/bp is a thing still.

id totally love to be bp

[Kaiji]

ok i was 1000% going to come in swinging here at midway but this changes everything

[Kaiji]

deadass reread the game and everything and saw IV was hard on wanting midway dead

[Kaiji]

VOTE: SS

mech optimal kill, smells like SS though

[Kaiji]

nah fam im getting midway mislimmed lmfao he was scummy looking as hell LMFAO

but if u wanna also tell on yourself, go right ahead.

[Kaiji]

I probably wouldn't have tracked midway either

same but for different reasons.
i thought mare was a voyeur fakeclaiming neighborizer and was gonna be on andante anyways

[Kaiji]

also imagine being mad andante tracked outside of doc when doc is dead like thats actually useful and a scum andante would be taking a risk claiming a random track claim

like andante as scum can just be like ez say midway visited you and thats it

[Kaiji]

I probably wouldn't have tracked midway either

same but for different reasons.
i thought mare was a voyeur fakeclaiming neighborizer and was gonna be on andante anyways

???????

neighborizer and voyeur are in the same row, voyeur would confirm midway too

[Kaiji]

SS literally malding that their mislim is slipping away lmfao

[Kaiji]

okay i am gonna do a funny, observe

VOTE: kaiji

so earlier on in this game, i was like, god midway looks so fucking scummy to me. idk how to read this dude tho he always looks so scummy to me. then i remembered 2195, where i was scum, midway was town, and he was acting as lowkey misyeet bait, but there was this one (1) motherfucker who knew how to read him. it was kaiji. so i had to uhh fucking kill kaiji n1 just to be able to shitpush midway through on d2. and earlier in this game i thought, damn it would be some good shit to have kaiji in this game, they know how to read midway.

then, would you look at that, kaiji replaced in? first had him at null? then was fine with the wagon and now is claiming they were gonna hardpush him had he not died? uhh idk fam

we're talking about midway, not ssbmkyouko

[Kaiji]

and also i guarantee you there were much different cirucmstances that game that was also a year ago

[Kaiji]

i already wanted them dead last dayphase but people chose mech over dayplay - which they got lucky with *this time*


skitter got elevated based on this reality btw

[Kaiji]

no you don't

you dont know andante


you're projecting what you'd do as town onto andante rofl

[Kaiji]

and before anyone pulls that i coached andante,my advice if we were scum together would have 1000% been to just claim a track onto them if we were going to actually kill midway(which i wouldn't have bothered with and would have killed skitter if they were town)

[Kaiji]

Kaiji yesterday u thought it was midway/ss - the midway flip doesnt seem to be affecting ur read on ss?

midway's interaction with SS shone a spotlight onto SS that made me see SS as scummy independently.


my read shifted on you, but absolutely not SS.



there's actually 1 player who i have removed from my townreads based on something they've said this dayphase and i'm holding to it for now.

[Kaiji]

I dont think so, but i also think it makes 'less sense' as scum than town?

Why?

I think town-Andante is much more likely to ask herself

why

she was asked to track midway.

Because failing to track midway will call a lot of negative attention to her, which she could have easily avoided by claiming to have tracked midway to herself

Its not like anybody would be able to say she was lying

SS wants to keep their mislim do u not see that rofl

[Kaiji]

SS wants to keep their mislim do u not see that rofl

When was the last time you even played with scum-me?

I think the last time I pushed someone as scum as hard as I am pushing now was like... 2018?

literally squid game

[Kaiji]

but also ok i think SS townslipped and maybe they are right and im just tunneled UNVOTE:


fwiw i have been snowed easily by scum andante in the past

[Kaiji]

they displayed what i like to dub the "clueless uninformed" tell where they spew something very subtle that shows they are not part of a scumteam or viewing the game as an informed party trying to fool town etc.

[Kaiji]

Sleepless Assassin

(6):

northsidegal, Menalque, Andante,

Faker

, catboi, Mare

flow trap (5):

skitter30,

Datisi

,

Sleepless Assassin

,

SirCakez

,

innocentvillager

midwaybear

(1):

flow trap

Faker

(1):

Something_Smart

not voting (1):

midwaybear

Sleepless Assassin

(8):

northsidegal, Menalque, Andante, catboi,

midwaybear

,

Faker

, Mare, skitter30

flow trap (5):

Sleepless Assassin

,

Datisi

,

innocentvillager

,

SirCakez

, Something_Smart

midwaybear

(1):

flow trap

not voting (0):

i'm gonna pretend that i know how to do vca, and boy oh boy that is a lot of green on the flowtrap wagon

if i assume that flow trap is town, then scum was probably dispersed across both wagons - i'd assume in that case skitt would most likely be scum there

however, if flow trap is scum, then skitter is probably? town

i lowkey wanna flip alyssa now

if alyssa flips scum im returning to my hiatus no cap

[Kaiji]

ok maybe i need to start looking at the game more holistically lol


im starting to see things more clearly via being bonked by several people

[Kaiji]

i do want to state there is no world where i shoot midway here and would more likely than not:

shoot mare if they are not partner > shoot skitter if they are not my partner and mare is my partner


and there are simple gamestate reasons for this


mare would be a voyeur fear to not allow midway to be 100% cleared

skitter would be dayplay and PR fear


unless you want to argue i have a parnter who argued me out of it -> very unlikely with this playerlist

[Kaiji]

SS if you think Andante is scum you need to build a case thats predicated on dayplay because your nightplay case is at worst NAI for her.


I think her lack of opinions on the game is more incriminating here and i kinda realized it after you bonked me several times about her slot and i may be sold once i reeval everything

[Kaiji]

(yes im stubborn about reaching scumreads that are for the right reasons but accept "wrong reasons' as excuses to dig deeper and give spotlight to people lmfao)

[Kaiji]

ok no cap i was like sitting at work thinking about this game thinking about my SS/Midway/Skitter solve like "damn this shit is moment of brilliance material" and was so convinced im right yall dont understand how crushed i am to look like a clown now

[Kaiji]

i wanted to look good asf on my return

[Kaiji]

VOTE: Mare
deal

[Kaiji]

wait i know what skitter totally picked and now i see why scum didnt target her duh

[Kaiji]

also we can safely assume scum dont have the n3 vig provided that skitter is town

[Kaiji]

biggest brain moment

[Kaiji]

nah its ok ur either ascetic cop/bp row or n3 vig/venge column and its clear that scum are afraid you are possible bp

those are the only 2 unclaimed rows thus its safe to discuss this far


im just justifying viability for why you werent targeted for a nightkill

[Kaiji]

its an exercise i do to confirm that my reads are within the realm of possibility -> useful for untunneling oneself when pushing LHF slots mostly

[Kaiji]

btw if andante flips scum -> everyone she has pushed is pretty much conftown.


she is an avid antibusser till the very end unless she absolutely needs to.

like stubbornly so.

[Kaiji]

S_S is also town

ok well what is my slot's alignment?

[Kaiji]

pooky and catboi scum theater for 3 pages?

ummm I'm running into a major thing in my reads here... Datisi/Innocentvillager, do yall always interact like this when yall play together? like, I guess I'm asking like, do you 2 have a lot of history? cause there's this thing I'm noticing, and I think Innocentvillager is either scum trying to pocket datisi, or this is just how you 2 play in games together..
So if Datisi/innocentvillager could help me out here, I'd appreciate it, cause yeah, I start to question my reads when I start having a million scum points for people

I'd argue there's 2 scum in the 5/6/10
midwaybear: 5
Mare: 6
innocentvillager: 10
like, no one else picked these numbers? they're like middle... "safe" numbers

VOTE: Pooky

Datisi, I'm honestly not really vibing with IV's Mare tr, it's not an actual reason and feels like it stems from TMI, what are your thoughts with how IV is calling mare obvtown...

just because we play differently and have different styles of reading doesnt make me scum tmi'ing someone

Well I'm referring to the fact mare has basically 0 game related lines, nothing mare said is hard to fake as scum, you're calling it obvtown, and if you can't see why I don't agree.. idk what to say there. I don't tr someone off emotion, I look at reads and what they've done, I know we play differently, a lot differently, I think we already established that. But I don't like the reasoning for mare being obv town here, and with basically no explanation. You didn't seem happy when I asked for specific lines, didn't look like you were actually trying to convince me mare town. thus you quoted her entire ISO... and gave no thoughts about specific things

VOTE: Datisi
this is not town

Here's probably where I'm at right now

Town: SS, catboi, Faker, datisi
Probably town, but I have some doubts that I'm not looking into right now: skitter, cakez, midway, northsidegal
Probably mafia: IV, flow, Pooky, Mare (with IV but not with flow)
Definitely maf: Sleepless

some places to look for anti-associatives with andante if she flips scum

[Kaiji]

ok but yes


@mare you have to claim your hood now.

[Kaiji]

i think we just insta yeet mare if they dont have a hood

[Kaiji]

ok then thats all the mech we need claimed today

[Kaiji]

i'm going into "sit back and watch" mode
ive spewed all the info i think i needed to atp

do not hammer andante early here -> we need discussion time.

[Kaiji]

VOTE: catboi

[Kaiji]

Actually

please be careful with your votes

if scum have the N3 vig today is functional MELO

UNVOTE:

good point

also would u like to bounce ideas off sometime this weekend, I am simply descending more into being lost here.


I think I do agree I need to face the facts and realize that there is much evidence pointing to skitter scum -> wrt their draft placement and them not dying, every other role but vig and cop being accounted for and skitter not claiming any results(and clearly not having checked me here), faker being dead n1 and the n1 double death being 100% from a scum vig(i still clowned on andante being possible town vig rofl)


I also now am going back and finding it odd that SS is offering no suspicion of Skitter when, as a mech crutchy player, it goes to reason that SS should be all over skitter for being in the draft spot they are and not being targeted at all and a scum vig being unresolved yet. They say andante is scum here for targeting outside -> but now what?




I think this game is tough because scum are doing effective distancing play and such that makes it hard to read holistically for a solve as you find 2 people independently scummy but their distancing is effective so it makes you reeval to them town which is the type of brainwaves ive been doing.


I *do* want to figure out why scum really wanted IV dead though. Because that was quite an absurd kill honestly.



my brain is actually considering Andante/Skitter/SS because of how linked they are but that reasoning got me midway as scum so i'm pensive about that.


Alyssa I really want to trust my read there still.

catboi I remembered I had good reasoning to keep him as town - if im wrong then f u gira im never trusting that kinda tell again and BoPing you forever

mena play the game challenge but also pooky x cakez was TvT imo so we can chill w that for now


mare being confirmed neighborizer 100% is +town there ?


datisi is just an easy read lol

um did i forget anyone



andante/SS/skitter would also nullify the "uninformed" thing i thought skitter had as that is the only scum composition that would leave skitter ignorant of the thing i thought was town indicative for any other team -> bar menalque being slotted into there.


dunno
spewing thoughts


if ppl think im somehow still scum here, I have given way too many opinions to feasibly do that + put myself on the line in places i had no need to when NSG slot was already widely at least null-town read from what i can see


ye ye

[Kaiji]

didn't you lock that townread on me when you were high or something

I don't remember you ever explaining that and I'm pretty certain that was before any point that I'd consider myself as having distinctly left my scumrange

i didnt use meta to sort you so a bit of a null point to bring up your scumrange

[Kaiji]

i think ive dug my brain into a hole thinking wise for this game and im stuck on some line of thinking that prevents me from solving because i keep reading and even what i feel is the only viable solve atp feels *wrong* because of d1 interactiosn between those 3



like holy shit whoever is scum is playing v well and im not even trying to find all 3 scum rn im mainly trying to just find that *1* flip to crack the game open

[Kaiji]

im gonna i think relook at datisi later to actually make sure im not misreading that slot because that loosens things up a bit in terms of being able to actually have viable solves ?


i need to do like an exercise like trustfalls(listing every reason i feel i should townread a person for everyone and then look at the people who have the weakest reasons overall) at some point

this feels like a "sort people by towniness" game and not "find who's 'scummy'" game

[Kaiji]

I didn't think you did

and that's why I find it odd

considering you have like no meta on me it is odd to me that you are calling it odd


i found the way you were looking at the game and appraoching it similar to mine - except im much more proactive and you are reactive


who would you confidently say is town and would bet your pride on the read?

[Kaiji]

I didn't think you did

and that's why I find it odd

considering you have like no meta on me it is odd to me that you are calling it odd


i found the way you were looking at the game and appraoching it similar to mine - except im much more proactive and you are reactive

who would you confidently say is town and would bet your pride on the read?

everyone should do the bolded tbh



also hhh my brain keeps wanting to go back to SS/Skitter being paired

[Kaiji]

people who have next to no knowledge about how I play the game, when experiencing me with a town PM, either hard scumread me or just never really understand how they should be reading me

it's very rare that people hard townread me when I'm not fully engaged into a game without being pretty familiar with how I play the game, which is almost always from players I've played in both a town and a scum hydra with in the past

it's different if the read is mostly based on flow trap, but strong town reads on me at that stage in the game is... at best very odd

Ok I can definitely explain this - I have a very uncommon approach to how I read people(and people who have played with me will confirm). I myself am *also* a player who gets scumread when people don't have experience with me(heyo) fwiw so i understand that.

I typically look at how complex a townie's thought process is - that is, are they actually updating their reads via new information. Fabricated reads do not build upon a foundation unless a player is dedicated hard to the game and experienced - and on top of that, your archaetype of player reminded me of my own and I thought that was fairly indicative of being the same alignment.


And this doesn't require a high amount of posts - I have sorted low posters this way, *including not mafia*(to >rand success. still working on making it 100%) - so before you bring up you are disengaged.



but there is a glimmer of truth in what you're seeing in that i exaggerate the confidence of reads and that isn't my true confidence - I don't like to be wishy washy as that tends to get people not to sheep you . But Once prompted i am extremely honest so LOL

[Kaiji]

also would u like to bounce ideas off sometime this weekend, I am simply descending more into being lost here.

I can try but for what it's my reads have been bad lately and I'm extremely burnt

catboi I remembered I had good reasoning to keep him as town - if im wrong then f u gira im never trusting that kinda tell again and BoPing you forever

Uh...okay then? Why were you scumreading me in the first place?

because midway flipped town and im basically malding and lashing out anywhere i can find a new solve

[Kaiji]

sorry for being so wordy and long winded i feel like its a pain to read through my posts sometimes because i overexplain but i just dont want to be misunderstood :<

[Kaiji]

[Kaiji]

my scum mindset is typically to have a few cornerstone pieces and make sure i can control them and when choosing nightkills I prioritize people with good dayplay over mechs except for stuff like a cop.


thus why skitter not dying is either indicative of me and skitter being SvS or just me being town.

[Kaiji]

the tactics i do use as scum do overlap with things common to my towngame - i dont wanna make it easy to catch me as scum yknow? but once you go past the midgame its much easier to read me IMO even if i replace in because of the way I parse the game.

[Kaiji]

ohhhhhhhhhhhhh ok no i get it yea

[Kaiji]

i'm also likely to disregard a possible save occuring, such as a BPV even - so that avenue can be discarded for me. i have a recent scumgame where I state this in spec chat after I sac myself to give my partners towncred(also another thing - I prefer to sac early so i dont spew due to my playstyle as scum being aimed at mimicing my townplay and thus being very vulnerable to spew)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=88156 here is one

and
Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [dead pt]

yeah i gave up bc i didn't wanna spew. Fighting out of that would have just lost the game

from scum pt:
Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [scum pt]

They're pr and have wim

Killing the WIM is the best option here

Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [scum pt]

3 down and a nightkill path to the end!!

we can no kill to pretend one of yall is a protective
but like - yeah!
we got this

Alice clear kinda sux but hellbus is viable here

Subject: Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [scum pt]

kill pr first in case theyre bluffing the shot count.

i didnt explicitly say it in the scum pt but the townie wim players happened to line up with the PRs lol

ok maybe this uh disproved my mindset id have as scum but this is a bad comparison due to midway's place in thegamestate vs the kills i made there xD

but the last quote shows i wanted scummates to just shoot pr despite believing last town PR was a protective as testing for protective = good for me, as it is info + most setups dont allow double protection on a target esp if they are clear



ok yea

[Kaiji]

and Jolyne is another one of my alts lol

[Kaiji]

now "why is kaiji all focused on proving they are town moreso than hunting scum right now"

well glad you asked kaiji,

the answer to that is I see people angling to eliminate me possibly and I want to prevent that.

i always do this as town(well sometimes scum too.. listen a lot of what i do is NAI ) because im very intensely aware of gamestate and how it seems people are moving and try to predict moves in advance

[Kaiji]

Hello. I wish to announce that NSG had poor choice in role selection but it is ok.

this was a very clever soft referencing my previous stance on vigilante as a role, which I have expressed in a recent dead PT of a completed game - as well as the latter claiming "it is ok" meaning the role was not obtained.

[Kaiji]

FWIW

[Kaiji]

lmfao ss

my point was that is the world where skitter *is* town is the one where scum do not shoot her in fear of being a town bp

thus either scum have that slot via skitter or scum do not have that slot

VOTE: Something Smart

trying to push incorrect logic is a sin from SS

[Kaiji]

i think we should be limming in andante/skitter here because

scum chose multitasking

they got roles

scum dont think 50 steps ahead like this.. they wanted to be able to use their roles


UNVOTE:

that being said voting the bottom draft pick is the lowest chance of hitting but i think on a dayplay level SS is scummy still.

im likely going to wait till either mena posts or is replaced to push forward more i dont want to do anything until we get anything from that slot

[Kaiji]

I have stated I townread pooky so by extension I townread mena, yes.

[Kaiji]

hey andante, who's the scum vig?

[Kaiji]

I have caught pooky as scum in 2 recent games.

if I'm saying they are towny, that is something to listen to.

[Kaiji]

i'm p sure scum chose multitasking before they knew the results of the draft, no?

no shot, thatd make it awful

[Kaiji]

wait

nvm it actually is chosen in the first phase before draft is revealed


thats interesting

[Kaiji]

andante, who's the scum vig?
why are you dodging that?

[Kaiji]

actually yeah


VOTE: andante

[Kaiji]

i'm interesting in finding the scum vig today now.

its a much tighter pool


and honestly i think her claim is complete bullshit


who the fuck chooses tracker for first pick


if they did choose that slot, its to deny the person below from getting it.


i dont see any town reason to do so

pony's game has been extremely weaksauce


and on a scum flip we can confidently clear the people she's been pushing(me, in particular kek) because she is extremely anti bus

[Kaiji]

i'm p sure scum chose multitasking before they knew the results of the draft, no?

like, Andante can't go explain why Skitter is town, instead it's "GET KAIJI!"

so dumb... if this is how we're playing... maybe I just need to step away, cause I'm not freaking dealing with this. it's not even like half this table is trying, yet I'm trying, convinced mena maf, everyone ignores it, and get this to deal with? yeah no thanks

[Kaiji]

and that doesn't ping you at all?

that is town motivated to you?


tracker is a great pr as a rolecop esque role that can be perceived as towny.


literally should never be clearing


@skitter, towncase andante.

neither of yall interact at all much and its concerning as fuck.

[Kaiji]

god people are such wet towels this game its so fucking hard to tell who is scum just waffling and town not trying im so frustrated

[Kaiji]

and the people who are Not I am finding hard to find as town

except like datisi

except datisi could put in an extra effort too

[Kaiji]

i don't think she cares nearly as much as scum, and i think she's signifcantly more frozen and less capable of nuanced thought that carries through her posting as scum

like her trajectory makes a lot of sense (even if i dont' necessarily agree with it) ... as scum i think she freezes and is a lot more surface level and isn't like ~passionate~ about her reads, and doesn't have as much of a 'complete' trajectory

I have years of experience with andante via other mediums too and i am telling you her scumrange is much wider than you think especially if she is in a comfy spot from the start. she can come off as passionate with reads as scum

but also this *does* describe her play here other than day 1.

its fallen off sharply.


day 2 is where we see scum unravel typically.


idk


im just frustrated i can't get a wagon onto anyone i scumread because i think the townies are not actually playing and thats my view and maybe ur town and youre right and hopefully scum dont have a 2nd vig bc one more flip on the correct slot even if town will crack the game wide open.

[Kaiji]

i find her shade of me to not be genuine and very 1 dimensional because she won't even consider who is the scum vig - it is a role that is confirmed to exist via the lack of a townie claiming it.

[Kaiji]

sorry i can't hear you over the sound of me actually trying to solve the game on a holistic level

[Kaiji]

this is the same exact lack of response andante i got last time you scummed against me where you refused to good faith engage in my questions and only focus on the tunnel.

im not budging unless you show depth and complexity.

[Kaiji]

the scum team could very well have a tracker and knew SS didnt go anywhere or SS IS scum and she knows she can make up a result there.

[Kaiji]

there's no way you read my claim of choosing vig and concluded i got it


you are dumbtelling

[Kaiji]

>.>

bizarrely that makes me wonder about an andante/kaiji universe ...

~

andante i mean this in the nicest possible way but do u understand how this setup works?

~

and kaiji why doesn't she just claim to track midway to her instead of making herself look bad by not tracking midway

I do not think it looks bad to claim a result not on midway, there was only 1 person who concluded it was scummy.

[Kaiji]

UNVOTE:

i hate this game i hate this game i hate this game

someone is doing good scum theater or its all the inactives

[Kaiji]

im seriously going to default to sheeping nightkilled people if i dont find a good read soon

[Kaiji]

i hardclaim vt, nsg tried to pick vig(a bad role)


now i never get killed easy

i hope you see how i find it hard to believe that you actually genuinely thought i was the vig when this is the only post i make referencing it