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[ɀefiend]

What mastina is doing both scum!mastina and town!mastina could do; the act is merely Information Instead of Analysis, which is NAI. However there are some flaws, and although I have no way to prove it, what mastina says about what everyone submitted is not 100% true.

I submitted town preference overall, but all three of my scum roles were rejected (which seems ridiculous reading what some of y'all claim to submitted) -- so I was assigned a Vanilla preference if rolling scum.

I will also be keeping my own notes on people's claims, but if someone wants to neighborize me into mastina's PT so that I don't have to keep notes, it would be appreciated.

Not enough petty arguments to generate any reads yet.

[ɀefiend]

Ok.

- Strengthener
- 1Shot BP Interceptor
- Day3 Doomed BP Ninja

[ɀefiend]

House I think has stated his town/scum preference before, but I sadly can't remember it and he has no real wiki so I have to keep him in the pool for now until I track it down.

Before my hiatus, my preference was playing as scum.

Site meta has changed since I last played. So my preference has too.

Bit off topic but can you elaborate on the site meta changing? Also how could you know the site meta changed if you haven't been playing?

I've played with Titus and Mastina before and your join date is similar but I don't remember playing with you. I often take long breaks from the site too.

[ɀefiend]

I can't find "LHF" acronym anywhere on the wiki, someone help me out.

mastina's logic does have some elements of WIFOM sprinkled throughout, but I like it overall. I would like to say though, if I rolled scum and we had day chat and I knew we'd have to claim preferences, I would think that each of us claiming something different from {scum, town, neither, refuse} would throw the whole damn thing mastina is doing off course.

I am someone who cares a lot about setup mech and if I noticed mastina was trying to sneak something by, I would speak up -- but it all looks on the level to me. That doesn't mean I agree with 100% of the evaluation, just that the attempt at solving looks honest.

I am also of the opinion that when Town is on the right track regarding setup/mech solving, scum tend to get defensive (for good reason).

I've played scum with mastina and I don't think this is it. Wouldn't bet my life on it, though.

I've also played scum with Titus and I don't have a read yet.

Everyone else, I have no meta with. Sorry to disappoint.

[ɀefiend]

For some reason I find Taly's posts 1000x harder to read than mastina's even though they both have a flickering avatar.

I do like Taly's latest posts at slotting people and will reread this thread later on today (maybe in raw html mode).

I just want to say that I DON'T like mastina slotting Titus (specifically, Titus - I haven't looked into Greeting or Taly yet, admittedly) into "locktown" for no apparent reason. I know Titus said her meta's changed but you can't un-teach an old dog old tricks. I just simply can't trust veterans this early on. Even if mastina's read is totally magically right, it makes me uncomfortable.

[ɀefiend]

I think I remember playing with you too.

As much as the idea of people handing out TRs like candy makes me uncomfortable, I actually like Dwlee's entrance as Townish. Because scum aren't gonna point out potential dumb/town tells especially when they're obscure like 4 year old meta on me.

Is Scorpius a real lim or a pressure wagon? And why is the Meg wagon stalling? And why is someone who hasn't voted yet (me) asking about votes? Find out next time on "zefiend pops in to shamelessly dodge reading the entire thread."

[ɀefiend]

Damn, how am I always in danger of getting prodded? Feel kinda bad, since there's so many cool players in this one.

What if the person Cheeky tried to hide at wasn't available? Like a Commuter or something? Wouldn't Cheeky just "stay home" then?

Not sure how RB fits into the equation at all.

I'ma sit back and wait for mastina to explain.

Don't feel like responding to the votes on me directly, but I will say: Yes I'm hardly active and coasting but I am in fact reading the game. I just haven't had more than like 30 minutes at a time to dedicate to gathering reads.

[ɀefiend]

Some reads:
- Taly is town
- Dwlee could be scum
- Scorpious could be scum, but not with House
- Flea gets +town points for standing up to mastina
- mastina gets -town points b/c of what Flea said
- If mastina is scum then Galron probably is too
- Greeting is null
- Enchant I hope is just bad town (like me)
- Titus is null

A lot of the reads were shaped in large part by House. Which had me strongly town-reading him. Until this post:

@mod

: do you treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee?

(The wiki mentions that some mods do this, which could be informative if that's the case because a protected Hider target would not protect the Hider)

I find this question very, very curious.

If it were the case, I agree it would be informative - but to who?

Suppose that it were the case that person X was protected and Cheeky visited person X. Then if scum attempted to kill person X, the kill would be "copied" onto Cheeky, explaining how they died.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

But it would tell town, in-game-thread, absolutely nothing.

Please explain how your question was meant to be informative or helpful to town. Because it smells like role/info-fishing as scum.

[ɀefiend]

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

[ɀefiend]

I find it very suspicious how little TRs you have. It feels like you'll jump on anything with a wagon. Any wagon but for Taly you have mentioned being willing to vote for vague reasons.

Nice misrep - I haven't mentioned willingness to vote anyone all game.

[ɀefiend]

VOTE: zefiend

I hadn't considered the possibility Taly might be Ascetic. Nice catch.

Taly, I'll quote it after work

Answer the question or eat rope.

VOTE: House

[ɀefiend]

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

Okay.

Tell me others?

If you read the thread mastina posted three possibilities.

There are more beyond that.

[ɀefiend]

Why are we still setup speaking

Titua

help me fix this game

Titus

please talk to me about

House

I cannot townbin that man with confidence.

I need a sounding board because I think it's very likely a playstyle clash.

I have tons of reason to believe

House

is town but I don't understand their mentality to this game if they are.

When he says things like

""don't expect me to be useful"

it signals to me that he doesn't have to be to reach his wincon.

And he's 1v1'd a lot with players that are much likelier to be mislimmed than him so what does he have to gain from filling the thread with derision?

Like, I don't know. I'm searching for reasons to trust a townread and I'm coming up with nothing.

And now

House

is the next read I gotta solve correctly to press forward.

I'm not very sold on

House

being town at all. He's memeposting

a lot

, picking fights unnecessarily and the way he threw some of his votes seemed to me to be at least random.

But, there's slots where hard data clearly shows a pattern, such as the final vote count of Day One. Which is why I'm avoiding of speaking on

House

, but also

Enchant

(who was my final vote Day One) for instance. Maybe they are scum. But I'm unable to tell with high confidence right now.

If I may, I'd like my thoughts to be focused on a bit more. Y'all don't have to agree with them, you can think they're shit, fine. But I would really appreciate any feedback which leads to any decisions rather than this just being shelved. Because the way the game has been going for the last 10 pages or so is pretty counterproductive.

What's your take on Titus and do you find it problematic/interesting that Taly (universal town read) and mastina (universal paranoia) are trying to town-bloc Titus with a hand-wave despite the fact that Titus' posts have been as lazy as mine (the person she's voting for?)

[ɀefiend]

Titus' posts have been as lazy as mine

What makes you say this? It feels rather entitled/frustrated that I'm town. I don’t have many posts and they aren't verbose but they definitely have clear intention. For the most part, people know exactly where I stand.

Your posts, on the other hand, make it feel as if you'll vote anything with a pulse.

I would love for you to be town but you haven't shown ME personally that you are and it is worrying that other power players are town-reading you because I don't want to be tasked with scum-casing you later in the game if others can't/won't step up.

I just voted for the first time and for very good reason. There were plenty of other people I "pulsate" towards but I chose my vote very deliberately. So again this feels like a misrep with no actual intention to try and work with me here.

[ɀefiend]

Some reads:
- Taly is town
- Dwlee could be scum
- Scorpious could be scum, but not with House
- Flea gets +town points for standing up to mastina
- mastina gets -town points b/c of what Flea said
- If mastina is scum then Galron probably is too
- Greeting is null
- Enchant I hope is just bad town (like me)
- Titus is null

A lot of the reads were shaped in large part by House. Which had me strongly town-reading him. Until this post:

@mod

: do you treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee?

(The wiki mentions that some mods do this, which could be informative if that's the case because a protected Hider target would not protect the Hider)

I find this question very, very curious.

If it were the case, I agree it would be informative - but to who?

Suppose that it were the case that person X was protected and Cheeky visited person X. Then if scum attempted to kill person X, the kill would be "copied" onto Cheeky, explaining how they died.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

But it would tell town, in-game-thread, absolutely nothing.

Please explain how your question was meant to be informative or helpful to town. Because it smells like role/info-fishing as scum.

Why am I- the person who has most actively voted you -town?

Because your vote, while misplaced, is well-intentioned. I have been slacking this game and probably did deserve some votes but now that I am picking it up in gear and making an effort I want to engage with people who are actively solving the game - i.e. you, Greeting, sometimes Dwlee, sometimes mastina, maybe Flea, and ALMOST House until he ruined it with that question.

Actively solving is not the only reason I'm townreading you NOR is actively solving = town-read from me. For you specifically, it's your tone and intention I am keen on town-reading you.

And while I could see an intention of rolefishing i always get the impression scum will just ask spec questions in a PT or PM. At least that's what I do to not get attention brought to how I think about mechanics.

There could be other reasons for House's post but I would rather he face the music himself instead of getting bailed out by others.

VOTE: zefiend

I hadn't considered the possibility Taly might be Ascetic. Nice catch.

Taly, I'll quote it after work

Answer the question or eat rope.

VOTE: House

Kind of want to hear a genuine reply from

House

too though but I also think he's given his reply enough.

Also agree with

Titus

, you have no stated townreads other other me.

Because I don't hand out town-reads like candy and trust me, I have good reasons for town-reading you.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

Okay.

Tell me others?

If you read the thread mastina posted three possibilities.

There are more beyond that.

Where are you going with this conversation

zefiend

?

Apparently nowhere but I did want to make it clear what I think of people's speccing/fishing when it is wrong/bad.

[ɀefiend]

Short version: zefiend cries.

Long version: zefiend is waiting for a "power player" to case me before he will.

He doesn't dispute he'll vote almost anyone.

Says that I misrepresented him but doesn't say where.

I do admit I'm not intending to work with scum...unless I see him bus lol.

Lol.

"Titus doesn't dispute she hasn't tried to show me she's town! She's obviously scum!!!11"

I'm not interesting in casing you right now because you're dry bones. Nothing to chew on. You're just clinging to me as a mislim target because I had a low-hanging-fruit/lurker tag all of Day 1.

You misrep because my vote was very clearly not desperate, i.e. NO - I am not willing to vote anything with a pulse.

[ɀefiend]

I'm a fucking Jailkeeper.

Town on my wagon are terribad/lazy.

I jailed Taly N1. I've been crumbing all Day long. Maybe some quieter people have picked up on it, but surely nobody voting me.

VOTE: Galron is lockscum. Titus probably scum, her play is unforgivable as town.

Obviously if someone quickhammers me here shoot/lim them tomorrow.

This game gives me a headache, I'm taking a rest for the night.

[ɀefiend]

I'm a fucking Jailkeeper.

Town on my wagon are terribad/lazy.

I jailed Taly N1. I've been crumbing all Day long. Maybe some quieter people have picked up on it, but surely nobody voting me.

VOTE: Galron is lockscum. Titus probably scum, her play is unforgivable as town.

Obviously if someone quickhammers me here shoot/lim them tomorrow.

This game gives me a headache, I'm taking a rest for the night.

Talking about all these scumreads, but I get no mention even though I'm the reason your wagon exists?

I. Don't. Believe. You.

Yeah I don't care - you can be scum too. You're loud enough to avoid your lim today but as I won't be around for long you won't have to deal with me pushing you any further. So good job doubling down.

[ɀefiend]

Bolded yellow parts are crumbing/explaining my progression toDay:

Posting the answer to "what happened at night" as a question:

Damn, how am I always in danger of getting prodded? Feel kinda bad, since there's so many cool players in this one.

What if the person Cheeky tried to hide at wasn't available?

Like a Commuter or something? Wouldn't Cheeky just "stay home" then?

Not sure how RB fits into the equation at all.

I'ma sit back and wait for mastina to explain.

Don't feel like responding to the votes on me directly, but I will say: Yes I'm hardly active and coasting but I am in fact reading the game. I just haven't had more than like 30 minutes at a time to dedicate to gathering reads.

I'm obviously very interested in House's answer

as the person responsible for the protection

:

Some reads:
- Taly is town
- Dwlee could be scum
- Scorpious could be scum, but not with House
- Flea gets +town points for standing up to mastina
- mastina gets -town points b/c of what Flea said
- If mastina is scum then Galron probably is too
- Greeting is null
- Enchant I hope is just bad town (like me)
- Titus is null

A lot of the reads were shaped in large part by House. Which had me strongly town-reading him. Until this post:

@mod

: do you treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee?

(The wiki mentions that some mods do this, which could be informative if that's the case because a protected Hider target would not protect the Hider)

I find this question very, very curious.

If it were the case, I agree it would be informative - but to who?

Suppose that it were the case that person X was protected and Cheeky visited person X. Then if scum attempted to kill person X, the kill would be "copied" onto Cheeky, explaining how they died.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

But it would tell town, in-game-thread, absolutely nothing.

Please explain how your question was meant to be informative or helpful to town. Because it smells like role/info-fishing as scum.

Because I have some information, and because I know the most likely outcome of all:

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

Okay.

Tell me others?

If you read the thread mastina posted three possibilities.

There are more beyond that.

Explicitly stating my town-read on Taly and making it painfully obvious that they were my target N1 should I ever die:

-snip-

Because your vote, while misplaced, is well-intentioned. I have been slacking this game and probably did deserve some votes but now that I am picking it up in gear and making an effort I want to engage with people who are actively solving the game - i.e. you, Greeting, sometimes Dwlee, sometimes mastina, maybe Flea, and ALMOST House until he ruined it with that question.

Actively solving is not the only reason I'm townreading you

NOR is actively solving = town-read from me. For you specifically, it's your tone and intention I am keen on town-reading you.

And while I could see an intention of rolefishing i always get the impression scum will just ask spec questions in a PT or PM. At least that's what I do to not get attention brought to how I think about mechanics.

There could be other reasons for House's post but I would rather he face the music himself instead of getting bailed out by others.

VOTE: zefiend

I hadn't considered the possibility Taly might be Ascetic. Nice catch.

Taly, I'll quote it after work

Answer the question or eat rope.

VOTE: House

Kind of want to hear a genuine reply from

House

too though but I also think he's given his reply enough.

Also agree with

Titus

, you have no stated townreads other other me.

Because I don't hand out town-reads like candy and

trust me, I have good reasons for town-reading you

.

This would tell scum (1) that there's a protective role and (2) that the protective role targeted person X

It doesh't make House more townie or more mafia (atleast this exact argument), because mafia already knows what happened fully. They of course can and will try to pass it as notinformed, but most likely they simple trying to not talk about this at all, to not give hints and attention.

Like why scumread someone for giving information to mafia, because if they are mafia they kinda already know and thus every other mafia member will know as well. There's no benifit in telling.


Also wtf there's literally... Well ok, two outcomes, first is where Cheeky roleblocked and second where she visited Ascetic. We can't do anything with that.

You're wrong on both counts.

Mafia don't necessarily have all information.

Those are not the only two possible outcomes.

Okay.

Tell me others?

If you read the thread mastina posted three possibilities.

There are more beyond that.

Where are you going with this conversation

zefiend

?

Apparently nowhere but I did want to make it clear what I think of people's speccing/fishing when it is wrong/bad.

[ɀefiend]

Why jail me?

Idk I was late submitting and although hardly active Day 1 I seemed to recall you were widely TR by people. Plus you're a vocal power player so a good target regardless.

Now I really gotta go so enjoy the shitshow til I get back.

[ɀefiend]

I jailed Scorpious. Isn't there a discrepancy between what Scorpious claimed to submit and what he claimed?

Man, I am so lame. Everyone asked for all these exotic roles and I’m here, like yeah! Role blocker!!

Admittedly this is my first u pick

I picked
Ninja
JOAT
Roleblocker

With a town preference

I’m so boring

7+ days passed and no one decapitated, wtf stale game.

VOTE: Scorpious

I agree, watching house feed his ego is getting old.

I’m a 1-shot Neapolitan and I was blocked last night looking at Zefiend..

I jailed him on the off-chance that he was somehow telling the truth, and is another town PR, because I figured that scum might be inclined to shoot claimed PRs. However, they might be afraid of myself being protected.

So is it more likely that there is a discrepancy in Scorpious' claims and was the NK target last night,

or is it more likely that Scorpious was chosen to perform the NK?

Given how bad most of Scorpious' votes have been all game, then IF he is scum, I would think that the scum team would judge him to be on shakiest ground, and therefore least risk in performing the NK.

Meg vote --> bad
Cheeky vote --> bad
Another Meg vote --> bad again
Enchant vote --> lazy but fine
Dwlee vote --> I don't understand it, maybe fine
zefiend vote --> bad
flea vote --> bad

In my opinion Scorpious is not a prime NK target, since if he were actually telling the truth, his powers are used up and now from scum's perspective he would just be a Named VT. I think even if you toss out Taly and I from NK pool because scum is scared of protection, there are better targets than Scorpious.

So I am inclined to believe Scorpious was sent to perform the kill and would be willing to vote there.

Taly

, I find it discouraging that you feel a lack of teamwork. I am here and can work with you. If you can help me flesh out some town-reads that would be great because right now nobody else is screaming town to me.

[ɀefiend]

Everybody sucks right now.

Literally nobody cares that the Flea power wagon was terrible. Everybody is talking roles, spec, leashing, mechanics. It is very easy for scum to blend in there.

Basically nobody is purely scumhunting.

I'm too lazy to do it myself.

Taly, I'll get back to you later with some scattered thoughts, but honestly it's all pretty shallow and pessimistic.

[ɀefiend]

GG.