CONTROL - GAME OVER!

[Grendel]

Role got! Evening everybody. Ill try to get fully caught up tonight, if not ill finish up tomorrow.

Looking at the roster I recognize several names but the only ones I've completed games with are 2/3ds of the hydra (Titus and flea). I think i played galreon once a year or two ago, and Icher I played a game with a LONG time ago. Also recall MariaR too i believe. If I'm missing anybody feel free to jog my memory.

Never played Mastina, or Lady Lambdadelta, but their names precede them for sure. Curious to see if they live up to the hype!

To the total strangers... hi! Im Grendel, and its nice to meet you.

-/-/-/-/-

UNVOTE:

[Grendel]

Probably split up catch up when feels like its getting too long. This is Pages 1~6 of my read. I often like asking qualitative questions when sorting so please read my catch up incase i ask you a thing. I'll do a follow up if I haven't found an answer for myself by the time i catch up.

Spoiler:

Just make a blind vote and be boring Norwee, when will you ever learn…

Im ambivalent on the hyper self-awareness Norwee displays in his first posts. Generally weird for town to be thinking so much about how they present themselves.

Also I think maybe I've played with him before but idk much about him as a player. he was bossy/aggressive last time in a way I haven't seen here.
-/-/-/-/-/

*@Tictac*

i'm ascetic.

Can i get confirmation if this is a meme, or a serious claim?

-/-/-/-/-

This isn't a general motivation scumread Ceph.

It's a YOU read. I'm sorry if that feels shitty but I drew green and I'm kind of obligated to drink em if I got em

Town is more likely to wanna cash in on meta in a desire to create meaningful discussion asap. Also I'm getting some pretty agendaless vibes from Lady Lambdadelta's posts so far. Probably my strongest TR so far.

-/-/-/-/-/-

*@anybody who wants to answer*

The early push on Cephiper looks largely meta fueled, can somebody walk me through his meta if so?

ah, good, we're going to have ~fun~ this game

Look if you didn't want to get burned down early then you should've used your noggin before you fluffposted, now its too late and that's your problem not mine

how dare i attempt to have fun. i should be burned at the stake for this heinous crime

Fluff isn't a crime

It's the scum poking out of it

i'd be interested in seeing you try to explain this without copying LLD's homework

Sure but only because it turns out she wasn't seeing what I saw, whoops

The content of your post reads EXACTLY in theme with a specific part of Control, but its a part that wouldn't be very likely to come up in a green role PM. If you hadn't fluffposted without thinking through the consequences of your actions you might have been fine, but instead, you fluffposted in a way that gave the game away, precisely because you didn't know what you were talking about. Sorry bud

idk stuff about this game's flavor, but this seems angle shooty

-/-/-/-/-/-

gth Norwee is my biggest SR. Feels like he's quietly playing his own game in the background, and that smells like agenda. Present, active, but distant.

Bell is interesting as he also feels like he could fall into a similar boat. Tho he gives of the vibe of a player that'll be hard for me to read tonally.

I recall Icher used to be Yeet bait, not sure if that meta still stands. Regardless Im kinda wary of SRing him when I've known him to have an eccentric play style that's got him flipped in the past.

deLwee feels like gut scum to me, I'm curious if deliberate slanking is AI for them. I can't find it now, but somebody described Delwee as having a positive tone this game, but actually seemed more disinvested then anything to me.

TOwn lean on Lady Lambadeltia, and umm... i guess that's all so far

[Grendel]

Page 7~12

Spoiler:

*@Bell*

Testing site. Here to make an amazing post.
1. I am terrible scum, but if you give me a fake hard clear I will not fuck it up apparently.*angel* I had my first scum win recently that had almost absolutely nothing to do with me.
2. I can see why you would be okay with that Galron, but give me something please.
3. Norwe’s meta knowledge is accurate for norwe. For the most part though, If you play with me enough I become rather obvious.
4. I am confused at arcade’s approach early game.

Ill drink the self meta wine for now to reduce the scope of players i have to think about for the moment. thanks

can you elaborate on point 4?

Greeting, buddy, I think you are the only one other than Ircher who doesn't get the first two parts by now, its not like I've been hiding shit this game, I gave up that conniving scheming playstyle after the fiasco of Mtn Dew Mafia. I am an open book come and read me

As for why, I'm gonna save it till you decide to accept what the entire rest of the player list has, purely because it amuses me to watch you get held up on this small simple thing

Okay, well, if you want to be read by whatever you post solely then I won't be questioning you. It's not like I can force you to respond either.

I'll leave judging what's a small simple thing to myself, and it would be a small simple thing if it wasn't part of a chain of small simple things that form a pattern.

What is your read on Mush?

While catching up with the thread their behavior struck me quite strongly with the amount of fluff they're posting. They seem to be masking it with an aggressive and trollish posting style. None of their votes seem serious, none of the things they post seem serious.

They latch to random players for what seems to me no valid reason. And yet that doesn't stop them from latching on to

Cephrir

for doing the same thing (80).

They refuse to answer to questions themselves. And yet that doesn't stop them from questioning

Dwlee99

(67).

They're deliberately making unclear statements for reasons unknown, and I don't see how any of them aid the town cause (54 among most of their posts actually).

I think that creating unnecessary confusion is a scum tell to be fair.

VOTE: MUSHSHAGANA

Greeting's back and forth with Mush looks contrived. Scum trying to force content?

-/-/-/-/-

*@SaveTheDragons*

i townread you Norwee

Why do you town read him?

-/-/-/-/-

*@Greeting*

UNVOTE: MUSHSHAGANA

I want to vote

Ircher

, but I'd like a vote count first.

where exactly is your Mush read when you pivoted onto Icher?

-/-/-//-/-/-

Mush stream of thought posts fell genuine enough that I don't really feel him being scum atp. Hope gut doesn't bite my ass on that one lol.

I still feel vuagely scummy vibes in Norwee's general direction.

Greeting feels most scumy to me rn.

[Grendel]

Page 13~19

Spoiler:

The fake dayvig didn't really convince me of town!Noraa. As gutsy as Lady appears I don't really think her unloading a gun D1 in this context was that likely. Esp since fake day vig gambits are pretty common. I don't think its crazy to see Noraa rping that reaction.

Which I don't find AI in of itself b/c acting the part is potentially free town cred which neither alignment turns down.

Damn i do want to try and sort the bear hydra soon tho. If i don't get anything on them by the end of catch ill have to backtrack and hone in on them.

-/-/-/-/-/-

*LDD*

Are you generally a very creative player in terms of playstyle. ei gambits, targeted mind games, etc? what are your parameters when you decide to make a wildcard play?

-/-/-/-/-/-

this is like the first time ever i tr norwee and everyone's sus on him smh

he lacks energy tbh

Lacks energy? I did point out i wanted to be chill in this game. And there are more reasons for that.
Of course, whether i can keep up on that depends on my composure.

Is there a way you could be incited to open up your thoughts more thoroughly while still maintaining your chill zone?

Also if i hadn't mentioned it yet, I remember you now lol. Sorry about that.

-/-/-/-/-

Tet said somethings that concern me, but I'm not prepared to have a talk about that thought train atm. This is just a note for later.

-/-/-/-/-

meh. that reaction didn't change my bears read at all.

how does anyone still fall for fake dayvigs, it's so old hat.

i don't know who tet is, but they seem townish.

Cephir, and Tet, and SavetheDragon mirrored my thoughts pretty well. That feels reassuring.

-/-/-/-/-/-

VOTE: The Three Bears

I think that their reaction on page 13 to the fake day vig is fake but trying to look genuine. By that I mean, I don't believe that they believed that they were dead, and I don't think it was a townie reaction.

What distinguishes town/scum reaching for cred in a way you can differentiate them?

-/-/-/-/-

I don't have a read on the Acade Pals but i do think their willingness to push a slot whose reaction was largely seen as non-ai or even town is interesting. I love a contrarian.

-/-/-//-/-

Goddd this game is a cold fucking splash of water in the face after that meeting godddddddd I fuckin hate it here

That's a meme, I'm memeing, shush

OKAY SO TET! Anyway problem is like Ceph said he decided to do that fluffpost shit BEFORE the role PM rwas received. And yeah scum could be lying but the thing is it's unfalsifiable, so I have to accept the POSSIBILITY it MIGHT be true, regardless of alignment, which would make it NAI, or else its potentially fucking game throwing on my part LOL

SO I re-read Ceph later and there's some fucking good posts and the reaction to pressure doesn't look as bad as I remembered, DO I STILL FUCKING PUSH THAT? Cause like, it is UNLIKELY but NOT IMPOSSIBLE (or even implausible!!!) that Ceph stumbled into the one bit of flavor that can only arguably come from antagonists??? And like, if the psoting is town and my mindread slot (LLD) is saying to give space it seems like the right move is to see Ceph catch scum, bus or flame out and get yoten???? If you say I still push that then Idfk guess you suck at mafia buddy lol

Mush fluid read transition fits a more stream of thought playstyle. Consistent while not feeling ulterior. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of town Mush even tho i normally avoid reading these types of players.

-/-/-/-/-

THe Dewlee slot, whoever is subbing in there, i guess is still teriary SR. Kinda forgot it existed

[Grendel]

20~29 I see the page number growing out of the corner of my eye so I'm gonna try and speed run the rest of this. Or maybe Ill just try and find a stopping point a check on what yall are doing.

Spoiler:

Bell
Save The Dragons
The Three Bears (Titus, Flea the Magician, Noraa)
NorwegianboyEE
Tet
Roden
tictac
Malakittens
Lady Lambdadelta

Dwlee99
Princess Elodie
Greeting

T3

MUSHSHAGANA
Toogeloo

Galron
MegAzumarill
Arcade Pals (Dunnstral, MariaR)

Ircher
Cephrir

Kinda surprised that I genuinely have a good readslist from literally just two pages but this is genuinely seriously actually a good readslist imo.

I think these early read lists of yours arent things you normally would elaborate on, but I'd really appreciate follow-up on Noree, and a range of confidence in that tr.

-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-

(me locking was just trolling and not game related)

For the record, this is bad modding as it has a direct influence on the game, namely?

I'm conftowning both LLD and Three Bears from it.

Buthey, I won't complain from having two conftown from bad modding practices.

ngl i forgot he did that. Im unsure if it changes my world view or not hmmm

-/-/-/--/-

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

So, I took the time to analyse two players who were under suspicion at the moment and tried to understand the arguments against them and that's bad?

Half of the votes this game have either been not explained at all, or were given three lines of text at most. At least that's my impression. Sorry for wanting to make a more informed choice as to whom I'm voting out.

I also think that

Lady Lambdadelta

is town but I don't see a shred of an explanation why her being town makes me scum.

Hmmm, do you come from a site meta where wall posts are the common practice?

-/-/-/-/-

RodanVDragon looks like its probably TvT?

-/-/-/-/-/-

skim skim skim but like t3 is being so towny. it cant be real right? as for roden, given our history, im not gonna even attempt to read him. pretty sure it'll end up a SR nine times out of ten regardless of his alignment. norwee looking scummier by the second. idk reads just feel very very tmi-y. it just feels really informed but idk why. idk about massy. ok bai o/

oh wait. last thing, i find massy really really towny. idk what that means but i wanna believe it.

-baby bear

Is Roden classically somebody everybody tends to SR?

Glad I'm not the only one feeling weird about norwee

I think I'm just going to read the rest the game and not try and be considerate by being super open-handed. Also several of my questions here an in other parts have technically been answered, but i don't feel like going back to remove those questions. So if you see a question you know you answered just ignore it.

VOTE: Greeting

I also SR Norwee, and Dwelee's sub in. If there's more then 3 scum i predict some of the folks in the Pool of players that haven't said much or made an impression.

[Grendel]

Shitty binary read list as per page 29

Town (LDD, Mush, Bears)
Town? (DragonSaver, Bell, Tet, Masitina, Rodan,
umm null bc idk, or havent sorted yet ( Chepir, Arcade Pals, Toogeloo, val )
low content ( Malacats, Icher, Galron, WayItEnds, tictac,
Scum (Andante, Greeting, Norewee

Pre-edit

Shit I'm sorry mush. I wasn't paying attention

[Grendel]

Sircakes locking the thread leand more credence to Nor reaction when i thought about it. I didnt realise that had even happened at first, which is why i was more "meh" about it earlier on.

[Grendel]

Oh Save the Dragons! You'd said prevously you had SR Rodan frequently in previous games. Is it ok to ask for some examples?

[Grendel]

You're Delwees sub in right Andante? I havent read whenever your posting starts yet. So ill see what i think when i get to that point

[Grendel]

anything specific strike out at you? @grendal, re:noraa's reaction

yeah uh when i get back to my real computer i can give you those games remind me if i don't do it soon. i think roden was scum in 1 of them and town in 1 so who knows.

reread it, maybe I'm putting too much mental ehpasis on the sircakez bit. Noraas reaction is probably more non-ai then i was giving it credit for.

I think i need to peace out for the night and come back tomorrow rested up.

[Grendel]

Hi ho hi ho, im drunk and reading the game as i go... best as i can

-/-/-/-/-

something i was thinking earlier, Norwee and Rodan are ego players ain't they?

ego meaning they form their reads based not just off the game state, but also how other players read them. Also display a general self awareness that goes beyond what normal players do.

not a pejorative, their are a lot of good players who do this. Its more a matter of facing some level of BoP and having to deal w/ that shit while also trying to play like normal

[Grendel]

I make those thoughts b/c rodan defends themselves hard af, and norwee is posting like a bitter old man who doesn't really want to be here lmao

[Grendel]

*Rodan*
if you havent yet, what are your explanations behind your top 3 SRs

Talk to me about that

[Grendel]

Page 31

I dont really have a reason to SR T3 but I'm interested why they keep popping up in ppls scrum reads. whats the scoop on that?

[Grendel]

Also what T3's prefered alignment? asking for a friend

[Grendel]

I will give T3 one thing.
I think he’s tried to pocket me in every single game where he is scum, and not doing that here.

I mean talk like this kinda helps build the case that Norwee is an ego player haha

Which means he's less scumy b/c my "Im worried about my position" tell is moot, but its still useful long term. Ei i wont be pushing on a bad read in this case

[Grendel]

Part of the problem here is also that a lot of slots i’d want to get a better read on, such as Ttog, Princess Delonie, Dwlee, etc etc are lowposting or not here.

Well I don't know about any of those slots but I will give you a free read in Malakitty is town.

Super angleshoot.

whats the thoughts on the malacat read?

[Grendel]

I honestly regret not just naked voting Roden for reaction.

Mush/STD/DW/Tat feel fine.

Over all participation has been nothing like what i expected (at least one half) of this hydra to contribute lol

[Grendel]

Tic tac is your early claim true or a meme?

[Grendel]

galron town game is ez

why gal town?

[Grendel]

Noraa, I really don't want to engage you here. You're a tiresome player when you latch onto things, and that can be a good trait, but there's a reason I put Shrike in charge. If I could leave it in charge, I would. I don't want to deal with mafia right now. But then again, I don't want to deal with whatever complex Shrike gave Greeting, either, and I don't get to put that one off now that I committed to it...

Some days it feels like I just don't get to have nice things. Ugh. I'm only going to do this once.

Bell is obvtown. Not that I know him incredibly well or anything, but this just feels like honest, unconsidered play in ways most of the playerlist lacks.
Norw is engaging the players outside of who is coming to him first, and actually has something like a progression. This is probably the only town read that we have that's based in logic at all, and it's our weakest of this batch.
STD is just, so fucking town. I'm all-but-literally seeing this dude's brain work in my head. Shrike is too. This is town because if it isn't we're all tapped into the same primordial information well somehow, and STD doesn't strike me as the esoteric eldritch Discordian type.
LLD is everything I just said about STD combined with a history in and out of game of our brains functioning in bizarrely close patterns. I trust that I can read LLD more accurately than I can any other player in this game, which means if I have a read at all, I have to just accept whatever my head tells me about LLD. Right now, that's "all town, all the time".

Got it? Good. I've got cases to build and a deep-clean and organization pass to complete in my room. Leave the pointless shading for Shrike to deal with, I don't want any.

idk based on this page just looks like Norwee is just caplizizing off low activity

based on you reaction to previous binary readlist you really disliked my Norwee read, why is that?

somebody who knows Norwee and town reads him talk to me please lmao

[Grendel]

Tic tac is your early claim true or a meme?

true

thanks thanks

[Grendel]

Like to me...

No one should ever take a day vig 24 hours into the game seriously unless it's Bad Idea Mafia, and I certainly wouldn't expect that from Noraa.

I usually expect LLD to play like she's going to die Night 1. I'm used to her gambits, and the fake day vig is easily something she's do for reactions, but she went no where with it and is now slinking in the shadows of gameplay.

The whole thing seems weird to me.

this might be meta gaming, but i really really don't think that sir cakes would play into a S/S gambit in the thread

if nothing else you at least have to think that one of the two is town

[Grendel]

Spoiler:

And I would like to provide mrs. logic with some emotional support with regard to your reasoning of me being unaligned with Lady Lambdadelta because she has been utterly violated. You have provided a thesis that both of us are unaligned and now you're backtracking from it and claiming that it's not what you meant. That's.. bad, but I'm not yet sure if it's scum indicative.

I'm not sure how I feel about Greeting basically piggybacking off of Cephrir's earlier argumebt. On one hand, it is a reasonable take and factual. On the other hand, it feels kind of busywork-ish to repeat it now when it is very much done and over with.

Mastina just has that town Mastina entrance, and i’d very much like people to explain why they think Mastina is being scummy here. Because they sound fucking DRUNK.

I don't think she is, but I don't think it's an unreasonable take because her playstyle at the start is just begging for people to scum read her as she pulls out reads from thin air.

roden's using ate "woe is me" and needling using words like "inane" to try and attack the points against him without actually refuting those points. it makes it look like they weren't legit points to begin with. instead of answering, he doubles down on this narrative.

how are people like "well i guess that could come from town"

Because townies have done this in the past. Have you ever played with Robbnva/Jake From State Farm before? He used to do this kind of stuff all the time regardless of alignment. To be clear here, I think it does come out as slightly +scum equity, but it is very marginal as townies are equally keen to double down when they are wrong.

galron town game is ez

I really don't get how you and others are coming to this conclusion so early. All I have seen from Galron is sheeping a vote for "no good reason", claim softing, and a bunch of other one liners that say very little. Let me clear here: I'm not actively scum reading Galron, but I see nothing that really rings out as town either.

Anyone else weirded out that LLD did an obvious fake vig on Noraa, Noraa took it to heart, and then LLD takes a break while Three Bears gets freebie town reads?

No because it is the weekend. A lot of people post less on the weekends (albeit I don't know if that is true for Lady Lambdadelta specifically.)

NAH not how it works

With this level of reasoning (as displayed here and elsewhere), I'm not putting much stock in Noraa's reads.
---
I will try to give a reads list tomorrow or Tuesday.

Comparing Rodan with robbiva is super uncharitable. Robbiva managed to shut down entire games from angry yelling and threatening to compromise game states.

Rodans just being defensive, if he's town he'll get over it... well i hope so anyways

[Grendel]

mastina does a lot of hocus pocus to get her reads

I mean, generally speaking, yes--I have a method to make something out of what many see as nothing. I have a whole process involved in generating reads from the RVS. It's basically something I've got down to a science. So yes, I do have a way of pulling rabbits out of my hat when it comes to the RVS.

...But while that might be true

in general

, when it comes to

this

game?

You don't need to be me in order to get reads from the first two pages.

This is, genuinely, the biggest, most telling, first two pages I've ever seen in any game ever on mafiascum.net. I've never seen a game where the reads were more obvious more quickly. We basically had the shortest RVS possible in a large theme because by the end of page two, reads on basically everyone became ridiculously easy.

Well I'm town so I'm skeptical of at least one of your prospective scum team

[Grendel]

why are we voting meg out before a replacement? not saying I'm opposed, but I just don't get why

is this opportunism? ;.;

I'm crushed after your attempt to get positive soul read from me upon my entry

[Grendel]

Mega kept reiterating they couldn't catch up to the game due to it's length, they kept excusing themselves by that. But they were clearly reading posts as evidenced by their immediate response to me calling them out for coasting.
So why couldn't they make at least a little bit of worthwhile contributions to the recent postings at least? Or share at least a single read? I think they were just scared, they felt lost in the big scary town and couldn't keep up with the knowledge that they are a dirty dirty scum and any mistake in their posts would get them speedlimmed.

oh ok lmao

you're just scum capitalizing off a weak town player who couldn't keep up with this site large player game madness

VOTE: Norwegianboyee

[Grendel]

Role got! Evening everybody. Ill try to get fully caught up tonight, if not ill finish up tomorrow.

Looking at the roster I recognize several names but the only ones I've completed games with are 2/3ds of the hydra (Titus and flea). I think i played galreon once a year or two ago, and Icher I played a game with a LONG time ago. Also recall MariaR too i believe. If I'm missing anybody feel free to jog my memory.

Never played Mastina, or Lady Lambdadelta, but their names precede them for sure. Curious to see if they live up to the hype!

To the total strangers... hi! Im Grendel, and its nice to meet you.

-/-/-/-/-

UNVOTE:

Still feeling sick so this is me just checking in for now, but my name precedes me? Tell me more!

I played your husband once and i think he name dropped you. Also recall you from the GOAT thread where folks said your win rate was stupid good

[Grendel]

My favorite player of all time is hoopla tho, no offense

[Grendel]

Grendal

y u just mispell my name for nothin' smh

but hi i guess

would you like to volunteer your services to by my D1 study buddy?

Requirments is that you has an EST time zone and be available to talk about this game whenever i need u. Also ideally you'll have randed town this game. If not you'll have to confess your scumness and then we can talk.

[Grendel]

maybe im dense, can somebody talk to me more about t3/val?

[Grendel]

i'm neighborizing val89 because he made me feel val(89)idated about my roden read

Spoiler: neighborhood

sup

the bears are noraa - baby bear / flea the magician (fae/faer) - pinkie bear / titus - mamma bear. hydrae are hard to get used to but they mostly sign their posts so you can kind of tell who is talking

oh god, are you a dad?

Cuase that pun was certainly a thing... that u just did

you asked me my thoughts on the bear hydra, but I'm not sure what your own thoughts on them are. Do you have a read there?

[Grendel]

I'm town as heck. the towniest one here. Some people bleed blood? I bleed towniness

I didn't really see this, am i missing something?

[Grendel]

im sneaking in one last message or curse gonna be up all night having me yell abt it LOL

that message

is

grendel whod you replace again? meg? ok so you can maybe be town idk but like what the fuck is with ur reads dude????? try again re: ur fuckin scumreads, like, all of them LOL. like u really gonna need to sell me here idgi



oh yeah and also another message

which is

see yall on thursday morning LOL curse gonna be too busy tomorrow

I tried my best i guess lmao

I think you're town still upon catch up at least. wanna hang with me?

Conditions are u gotta be town and willing to disclosure if ur scum before agreeing to work with me on this D1 truce.

I'm looking for an active "feely" player who knows how to stare into the soul of others. My "feely" organs need to be rejuvenated by witch docs, then i can soul read again. SO I'm trying to supplement my inadequacies until then haha

[Grendel]

Heya Grendel

Andante is town

Wait rate your confidence on this read please!

its maybe important

[Grendel]

Grendel can you explain your scumread of me in more detail.
I feel like your reads are genuine, but you may be missing the mark on me due to some other NAI reasons. So please elaborate.

I think that you are taking a hands off approach until town makes a fuck up, and then capitalizing off that.

WIth you're "hands off" approach being a novel thing that makes players unsure how to read you, thereby granting you security D1+.

I say this b/c i seen scum use gimmicks in the past that contrast their previous games just to safely coast until they can swop in and take over

[Grendel]

*swoop in* post correct@ above post

Also not sure where my greeting read is existing rn. I was just thinking about them umm

[Grendel]

i think i slipped up too with noraa pronouns, i'm sorry

^

uhhh what is happening on this page?? If I'm reading this right and Mush is bullying the best faerie bear, HOW DARE YOU.

Mush v Flea is to me I'm not sure if it's hilarious or depressing as it's two plural people fighting each other when I'm pretty damn sure both are town now.

I think these early read lists of yours arent things you normally would elaborate on, but I'd really appreciate follow-up on Noree, and a range of confidence in that tr.

I have like a 66% ability to soulread Norwee.

As in, 2/3rds of the time, I can soulread Norwee--and even in the one third where I can't soulread Norwee, I can't get a read on Norwee.

So when I say Norwee is town here, without a doubt? It's the soulread in effect.

Why can I soulread Norwee? Fucked if I know, I legit have no clue why Norwee's the one player onsite that I have the soulread ability of in 2021-2022. But I can, and this is Norwee as town.

With very very high confidence.

I'll do my best to explain it when it's not 4 am and I have work the next day.

do u think its possible that norwee mixed up his reg playstyle to try and sneak by as scum here?

-/--//-/- pre edit

that's kinda gross if true. But i guess thats just mafiascum!players prioritizing their scum wins over their town game, which isn't unherad of.

Not sure if i have a take on mala yet

[Grendel]

Actully that dosent make sense lmao, subbing out means you wouldn't get a ref in your records

also Mala responded to my opening post like I've played her before. Ill have to check my previous games to see haha. Sry sry yo. I ain't perfect

[Grendel]

*@Greeting*

UNVOTE: MUSHSHAGANA

I want to vote

Ircher

, but I'd like a vote count first.

where exactly is your Mush read when you pivoted onto Icher?

In 548.

Mush stream of thought posts fell genuine enough that I don't really feel him being scum atp. Hope gut doesn't bite my ass on that one lol.

I still feel vuagely scummy vibes in Norwee's general direction.

Greeting feels most scumy to me rn.

Why?

Roden, why do you think Greeting is the best vote for today?

I hate the RVS analysis posts. They made my eyes glaze over and it just read as information-over-analysis to me. It's typically a town tell to me, but there's a thin line between actually town telling and just LAMIST serious analysis posts.

Additionally, I don't think Greeting and LLD are aligned, and since I town read LLD I have to give Greeting the boot.

So, I took the time to analyse two players who were under suspicion at the moment and tried to understand the arguments against them and that's bad?

Half of the votes this game have either been not explained at all, or were given three lines of text at most. At least that's my impression. Sorry for wanting to make a more informed choice as to whom I'm voting out.

I also think that

Lady Lambdadelta

is town but I don't see a shred of an explanation why her being town makes me scum.

Hmmm, do you come from a site meta where wall posts are the common practice?

I used to play mafia on sites where many players did this. What's so wrong with wall posts?

No, there's nothing wrong with wall posting. its just an atypical posting style here.

Initially i thought that you were nervously overthinking your posts, while trying to seem like everything was intentional ((when it didnt rly feel that way) (r/ that pivot and some other minor things)). Which felt scummy to me.

But if you are somebody who puts an extended amount of thought behind your posts regardless your alignment then you could easily be ethier alignment. Thanks for the follow up.

[Grendel]

I don't think anyone truly cares about their scum record, unless you're FL or something. So I'm speaking from a psychological standpoint.

idk who fl is

I guess my sentiments are relevant to players who prided their scum wins over their town wins. (Most of which prob don't even play here anymore) so i guess I'm outed dated. I should probably shut up on this actually.

Fwiw the last time that I hard Townread Norwee and he was scum, town won. So even if he is this bodes well.

it bodes well he isn't playing to a known town game?

[Grendel]

Hey Norwee, can you elaborate on your Icher read?

Also curious about your aldente read developing since you were looking into that slot

-/-/-/-/-
pre-edit

um ok. idk Norwee that well but i feel he's been getting a lot of leeway, and has mostly looked scum to me. :/

[Grendel]

Its just that i think Icher always does that? Like he's this analytical low energy guy who doesn't really wanna engage with whats technically time appropriate in the thread. Instead choosing to go after small things that don't mean so much to others, but he takes seriously. It ends with him getting bit in the ass a lot regardless alignment. i don't think i can support a flip there. If this is mischaracterizing then Icher can correct me, but that is the vibes i have gotten from one game i played with him, plus a few i read... years ago lol

I get the vibe you want to say that having the confidence to acknowledge something is classically scummy, then do just that in unironic terms is a townie thing to do? At least in Andante's case. ei sheeping on purpose. Idk i feel like any confidant player could do that. This is assuming that Andante is a confidant player in general. if not then there could be a case there for town her.
-/-/-/-

I guess this is a recap before i step back for a bit

Arcade looks like scum. Nothing this game has looked as motivated as what i used to know MariaR for. Idk anything about DUnn, but i don't really care. Norwee still looks like scum too.

Andante is scum lean.

Val is being obnouxoiusly defensive by not even bothering to where they address previous arguments they have argued for. I feel like i should check if that even happened at all b/c ???? it shouldn't be that hard to validate. I guess I'll do that when i get back.

Lady is still town, but I'm a little wary considering that she is willing to expend creativity as scum. Makes the fake vig thing something that could be done by scum her. I do stand by my "sir cakes wouldn't support a S/S gambit in thread," so if for some reason Lady, or bears, flips scum i see the remainder being 100% town. Bears i still feel is probably town. Also not as confidant as yesterday

Both Bell, and Mush, and Save the dragons feels like town to me. I think mush strongest of all

Rodan i want to talk to, greetings i want to talk to as well.

[Grendel]

Oh never mind, i checked the previous game and you didn’t scumread me.
Well now i look stupid huh.

Off hand memory was that shelly was making playing that game super unenjoyable and i wanted out lol.

[Grendel]

Yeah you were way more hands on that game Norwee.

Can can say you r just being chill this game, but idk why you cant be chill and more hand ons as well? whats the harm? (if your town )

[Grendel]

ughhhhhhhh, thinking about you

also i need to head out. I kno i was kinda spammy tonight, but i felt like that would be easier to ensure ppl would read my catch up and stuff that way.

[Grendel]

It just looks like you're keeping your options open, Grendel, by scum reading or fence sitting on so many slots.

for what it is worth I'm not known for being a particularly decisive player. Esp D1 when the least amount of info is available to work with.

In the past I've often been willing to compromise onto anybody I'm not openly town reading nearing EoD1 lmao

Heya Grendel

Andante is town

Wait rate your confidence on this read please!

its maybe important

7/10 -- In particular, I liked that she picked something up on Arcade, then worked herself around to move her vote to LLD and then Ircher, but then decided to go back to her first scumread. Like she realized pretty quickly that LLD was a bad vote and wasn't comfortable with voting Ircher, so she went back to Arcade. And it's sort of a mindmeld with Ircher because I go back and forth on him, not sure he's a good lim today.

I dont recall her Arcade case so Ill cross ref in a sec.

Why does the way she retracted her vote on LLD strike you as town processes specifically?

[Grendel]

@Chephrir

Spoiler:

too much consensus on irch

Then what is your explanation for him not being dead yet?

You say that, but this site has a rep for dragging the day phase out as long as possible. I do think that Icrcher was most likely lim, and might still be since this town is having a hard time making up its mind.

Also I dont really like how suddenly this goes from norwe town to scum after just one post indicating he won't be an ally

I don't recall ever town reading norwee. There was a couple times he slipped into null territory this game, but that's all.

What are your up to date thoughts on Norwee?

[Grendel]

@Andante

Spoiler:

Also I dont really like how suddenly this goes from norwe town to scum after just one post indicating he won't be an ally

where does grendel indicate he thinks norwee is town

Maybe town is too strong a word but in 1658 he seemed to be considering it

grendel and norwee, reading that entire exchange, felt like 1 maf talking to another maf, as an effort to distance from each other

If you think this then you should be interested w/ helping me bus my buddy here. Or otherwise encouraging dueling wagons between Norwee, and I.

Having a proverbial scum pair pressured to vote each other is a townie's wet dream. From a town PoV you wanna capitalize on situations like this. Like i don't wanna go all Ted Talk about optimal play but yeah... lol.

o/c you could be scum, and just not be thinking that deeply into what you are doing~

-/-/-/-/

Good luck on your upcoming semester. Same boat over here, plus trying to get an internship too.

[Grendel]

@Greeting

Spoiler:

I don't like

Grendel

in this game at all.

gth Norwee is my biggest SR. Feels like he's quietly playing his own game in the background, and that smells like agenda. Present, active, but distant.

Bell is interesting as he also feels like he could fall into a similar boat. Tho he gives of the vibe of a player that'll be hard for me to read tonally.

These reads sound fake and manfactured to me. They sound like they come from the point of view of someone who doesn't see how towny

Bell

is acting and sounding. I could consider

NorwegianboyEE

as a potential scum moreso than

Bell

, but anything he may have ever posted is... just null. In my experience, scums quite rarely have emotions guiding their actions, it comes from town far more often. And so I'm inclined to think that

NorwegianboyEE

's earlier agitation I spoke of in 865 is towny.

Their reads on certain other players look really fake and superficial too, like:

Arcade looks like scum. Nothing this game has looked as motivated as what i used to know MariaR for. Idk anything about DUnn, but i don't really care. Norwee still looks like scum too.

Andante is scum lean.

Maybe it's just really hard for me to see what's so extremely scummy about either of these two (three). Like, sure, maybe if I read into them more deeply I

could

find a thing or two. But on surface level, both are very much null and I don't think my eye is any better or worse than that of a common person. When someone makes strong statements like this without substantiating them very much it just looks totally out of the blue.

Grendel

moved on way too quickly from my wagon. In 1282 he literally lists me at the bottom of the list and that's just because of... my wallpost supposedly. Now he's found another target fast. Add to that his predecessor (

MegAzumarill

), who normally is more active than they were in this game.

My gut says this is the right move. This slot got a red PM.

VOTE: Grendel

The only thing that comes to his defense in my mind is 1698, where he clearly defends

Ircher

(and I also think he's town), but in this situation I think it's scum trying to make themselves look cleaner.

I still think

T3

was scummy and

Val89

's latest posting hasn't changed my mind, so I'm willing to vote that too.

I backed off b/c i realized i was pinged by some attributes that are often apparent in wall posters. Which to clarify, I don't think there is anything wrong with that as a means of approaching the game. You're probably null to me right now, i will try to resort you before day phase is over.

idk what i can say as a response to you calling my reads fake looking. I cant help that your gut is wrong on that impression.

[Grendel]

You know i was going to say exactly the same thing Grendel.
"Ok help buss my buddy"
Lol

we gotttta keep distancing Norwee!

-/-/-/-/-

@mush

I'd actually appreciate it if Rodan would show up and talk to me. Im hoping to get him to better unpack his reads, b/c he still seems caught up on defending himself.

-/-/-/-/-

@Andante

Spoiler:

I get the vibe you want to say that having the confidence to acknowledge something is classically scummy, then do just that in unironic terms is a townie thing to do? At least in Andante's case. ei sheeping on purpose. Idk i feel like any confidant player could do that. This is assuming that Andante is a confidant player in general. if not then there could be a case there for town her.

Andante is scum lean.

Maf for saying I’m sheeping then going back to it later? last night I was drunk, and exhausted by the time I was talking here, the choices were
-not post
-minimal effort

I chose to post here, and honestly I’m leaning you maf, and I’m wondering if you + Norwee talking is an attempt at maf distancing,cause yalls whole conversation just feels off.

Your read on me also feels awkward. Look I know I’m not an easy read at times, but your reasoning doesn’t match my play here. I’ve just tunneled Arcade all game, changed my mind on Ircher and am voting you. None of that is in your read on me, instead it’s like “changes vote. might be town. scum lean” so I think I’m actually good with keeping this vote

I was addressing a reason somebody else was town reading you over(Norwee i think?), and saying why i thought it was non-ai unless they knew it was AI for you specifically. Really feel like you misread that post. :/

I've gone through your iso and i still not sure why others see you as town. I still have a scum lean on you. I dont think i ever outted reasons explicitly why. Its honestly just this vibe I'm getting that you want everybody to think you are trying harder then you really are. Esp all that talk about how you're bleeding town when I never really see evidence of that? I think that LAMIST is generally an unfair term that's easy to misapply, so instead ill say that you've yet to prove you're townie to me, and your insistence that i should see you as town feels unnatural.

-/-/-/-/-

Pre-edit: Titus & other bears

Hope the test ends up negative for your sake Titus. Be safe!

GN everybody else.

[Grendel]

Thoughts on optimal play here

Personally, i think that 72 hours until EoD is the ideal timeframe to start getting claims out of people. B/c that's enough time to analyze claims and pivot wagons if necessary. With there being less than 48 hours until then I think I should turn to look at who/what is viable. Last i checked i believe the top two wagons were between arcade, and Ichrer, so ill check there first. I'd also like to have a third option as well, (that isn't me lol), in case both players currently on the chopping block claim strong/confirmable roles.

actually I guess Ill read the pages first to see if any big changes happened in last 24 hours.

UNVOTE:

[Grendel]

@Galron

Spoiler:

Shitty binary read list as per page 29

Town (LDD, Mush, Bears)
Town? (DragonSaver, Bell, Tet, Masitina, Rodan,
umm null bc idk, or havent sorted yet ( Chepir, Arcade Pals, Toogeloo, val )
low content ( Malacats, Icher, Galron, WayItEnds, tictac,
Scum (Andante, Greeting, Norewee

Pre-edit

Shit I'm sorry mush. I wasn't paying attention

I'm not sure when I posted that you had too many scum reads, but I know I missed this post. You have a null line and a low content line. The null line is idk or haven't sorted and I guess the low content line is because of low content. What's separating the nulls from the low contents? I realize this is an early reads list, so I don't really care about the names, just the process.

Null was because most of those guys i had some idea of what they had posted but i wasn't sure of their motivations. Low content was more like I didn't even know where they existed in the gamestate, "are these even real players?" was what i was thinking atp haha. No offense bro.

I finally placed you, Grendel. You're Gamma's buddy from his home site, right? You repped in to a game a year or two ago, may have been the one where I shot DGB in the face and everyone got culted.

Yes that was quite a game! If you were there then you were also in that game with Froggerking where he was doing the early game OCEAN tests. I was pretty proud of how well spoken my posts were that game, and that my reads were 2/3. Maybe i should play sober more often lmao.

You not having your old avvie anymore is what threw me off i think. it used to be some abstracted blue guy right?

It just looks like you're keeping your options open, Grendel, by scum reading or fence sitting on so many slots.

for what it is worth I'm not known for being a particularly decisive player. Esp D1 when the least amount of info is available to work with.

In the past I've often been willing to compromise onto anybody I'm not openly town reading nearing EoD1 lmao

Heya Grendel

Andante is town

Wait rate your confidence on this read please!

its maybe important

7/10 -- In particular, I liked that she picked something up on Arcade, then worked herself around to move her vote to LLD and then Ircher, but then decided to go back to her first scumread. Like she realized pretty quickly that LLD was a bad vote and wasn't comfortable with voting Ircher, so she went back to Arcade. And it's sort of a mindmeld with Ircher because I go back and forth on him, not sure he's a good lim today.

I dont recall her Arcade case so Ill cross ref in a sec.

Why does the way she retracted her vote on LLD strike you as town processes specifically?

She votes LLD and then changes the vote 6 posts later. In those 6 posts 2 were from LLD, so it's like something clicked in Andante's head when she saw the LLD posts that said "Oh yeah there was a reason I wasn't voting LLD."

I think you arent the only person to point that out. Maybe i didn't read into it enough on my catch up. :/

Does she just have a scum game that's not very reflective of play like that?

[Grendel]

Why not get a claim now so that potential scum don't have as much time to come up with a believable fake claim?

i mean sure, i was setting what i thought to be realistic parameters for the circumstances, but if we get somebody to claiming territory sooner that's cool

[Grendel]

do u think its possible that norwee mixed up his reg playstyle to try and sneak by as scum here?

Oh he's tried that before, it doesn't work.

Also even if he did, this is his regular playstyle anyway, so...

thanks for responding

[Grendel]

@Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I honestly regret not just naked voting Roden for reaction.

Mush/STD/DW/Tat feel fine.

Over all participation has been nothing like what i expected (at least one half) of this hydra to contribute lol

I don't like to post solo when part of a hydra, and my partner hasn't read over the game. They've asked to replace out which leaves me on my own, and I will play as if on my own shortly.

Side note... if you've ever played with me you'd know that low posting on day 1 from me is something I do often as town for other reasons, so I'm not sure where that meta is coming from?

I had played a game with MariaR back in like late 2016, early 2017 where she was pretty active all day, and really aggressive. If that's not really her type of play anymore then you can correct me.

Tho it sounds like dunn head did most the talking. I dont think I've ever played with you.

[Grendel]

I started looking through both their isos, but got distracted. I'll have to pick this up tomorrow when i have some free time.