Open 843 - Divide & Conquer - Game Over!

[innocentvillager]

Since when is IV tricky to read

Did he graduate too

i am easy to read! i am town!

[innocentvillager]

IV is town

what the fuck

[innocentvillager]

okay kuriyama town

[innocentvillager]

Pav can you post the neighbor groups since they're public info?

I'll be out hiking all day but will try to evaluate shit later

Don't know how other games played this but I expect it to be shoot in 3 down the line, 3 way at worst is fine and extra elims are a bonus.

is neighborhood groups public?

i am town

[innocentvillager]

i think we should kill in group of 3 first

[innocentvillager]

i read brighter's thing

i get that killing the scum in the group of 6 is autowin but i feel it's just so unlikely

i feel like killing in group of 3 first is better because we are higher chance to hit scum earlier. we are guaranteed even we completely suck and kill two townies d1,d2 to kill scum at 2 v 3 then turns into a f3 elo. By that point we'll have associatives to look back on. We're basically guaranteed a flip if we focus our attention on the the g3.

[innocentvillager]

If I don't correctly read IV this game I should probably end up BoP'd

VOTE: dwlee99

[innocentvillager]

idk why is that even a thing you say?:

[innocentvillager]

have you even seen my towngame before?

[innocentvillager]

i feel as though killing in group of 6 is a waste of time and we are gambling too hard. if we hit town we are not much closer to solving that group. i think someone would need to be really scummy or the group of 3 would have to be really hard for us to not want to go group of 3.

[innocentvillager]

fwiw, i think regardless of whether it's optimal, scum probably believe the "hard to read in smaller group" theory, and that i probably ended up in that group on those grounds ("nobody knows me" is pretty similar to "hard to read" imo).

i also think firebringer wouldntve put me in the smaller group.

no if it was me i would picked myself, save the dragons and todoraki

y?

[innocentvillager]

i asked him who does he think we will be paired with/who does he want to be paired with. he responds with okay we scum, who should we pair with (before i even saw role pm) then he suggest pairing with innocentvillager and dialogue about strategy to lim him and say scum want everyone paranoid us. then i ask him if we are really scum or is he memeing (we had a pre role pm discussion of what we would rather be and i said hydra is better as town than scum)

this was to extend of basically all our discussions of the game besides "WHEN IS THIS GAME STARTING. WHY ARE WE STILL IN NIGHT 0. WHEN WILL THIS START"

why me?

[innocentvillager]

IV do you forget I've been an active member in two of your scum games?

don’t you need to see a towngame before you can be more confident in recognizing my scumgame?

your confidence in reading me just from that seems a bit jarring

[innocentvillager]

firebringer eagerness comes off as townie but I hear he’s a good player so idk if I can believe my TL there strongly

[innocentvillager]

Vote Count 1.01

Official Vote Count

Todoroki

(2): mc esther, Dunnstral

mc esther

(1): Dwlee99

Brighter Puppy

(1): Kuriyama

Dwlee99

(1): innocentvillager

Not Voting

(4): Save The Dragons, Todoroki, Prism, Brighter Puppy

With 9 employees, it takes 5 to fire.

is anyone else having trouble reading this? :3 should I just change my theme

[innocentvillager]

lowkey i think ur kinda townie for saying that early ig. I don’t see the scum incentive for you to dig yourself into a hole like that when literally nobody here should expect you to have a perfect read rate on me. idk maybe ur just being performative but it doesn’t feel that way.

lol it’s so weird not knowing your alignment I’ve never actually tried to read you

any tips? do you think you would say that as scum?

[innocentvillager]

I was in that game too

Copying my notes: eliminating 3-person hood mafia day 1 is bad because it means the next 2 kills are the town players in the 3 person hood

VOTE: Dwlee99

yeah im really gonna be upset if we hit scum on d1

[innocentvillager]

Hey, I was in a previous running of this game.

There ended up being a lot of discussion on which hood to kill in first. After lots and lots of back and forth mech talk, it was decided that killing in the big hood first is better. Despite that, we killed scum in the small hood day one, and then proceeded to lose the game.

I don't remember all of the math on why it is better, but that was Bingle's final conclusion, and I trust Bingle's set up spec better then my own anyways.

Spoiler:

I know, I know. Bingle was scum that game.

But then he stood by it in the ghost chat, and he also said it in the original run of this set up, he had the same conclusion

So, would love to skip all of the mech back and forth and just all agree to kill in the big hood. Thanks!

Interesting, I’m down to just follow it even if it feels a bit wrong to me.

also fwiw I think this comes from town!NS unless he’s confident that people are going to bring it up. Either that or it’s scum!NS who wants people to kill in the 6 first for whatever reason. But it seems like in general he believes that town should kill in the 6 so if he’s scum it should be bad for him to reinforce town optimal strategy when he could’ve just let us bicker about it more

[innocentvillager]

The trick is that I'm always town

i claim doctor

[innocentvillager]

if town is divided between the optimal town strat and the non optimal one why would scum want to push it in the direction of the optimal one and cite evidence for it? especially if you think it “hasn’t been townie since _”

[innocentvillager]

the only reason I can really think of is that for some reason scum!NS set it up in a way such that it’s better for them in this case to go for group of 6, that somehow the incentives align, but I dont know wtf that could be

[innocentvillager]

Idk I’ll keep thinking on it I guess maybe there’s nothing there and I just got excited

[innocentvillager]

Todoroki was a horrible choice to put in if they are town though.

?

Especially since there are two other players in this game that were in that game with me.

hm yeah this is true too. honestly i still get a decent ish vibe from you adamantly shooting down my early TL of you but dwlee did it first so /shrug

why are concerned in general about being "TR'd for the wrong reasons" though?

[innocentvillager]

i asked him who does he think we will be paired with/who does he want to be paired with. he responds with okay we scum, who should we pair with (before i even saw role pm) then he suggest pairing with innocentvillager and dialogue about strategy to lim him and say scum want everyone paranoid us. then i ask him if we are really scum or is he memeing (we had a pre role pm discussion of what we would rather be and i said hydra is better as town than scum)

this was to extend of basically all our discussions of the game besides "WHEN IS THIS GAME STARTING. WHY ARE WE STILL IN NIGHT 0. WHEN WILL THIS START"

why me?

You’re my (self-imposed) GREATEST rival in this playerlist.
I still remember that time i had pocketed the entire playerlist but you just wouldn’t stup sussing me!! Norwee NEVER forgets such DISLOYALTY!

- Norwee

lol you flatter me, is this ur attempt to pocket me :3

i do feel like one of my few strengths in this game is not being pocketed easily and if i am then it's lightly/temporary, but that's also bc im a paranoid person in general

i guess i still don't understand why you would specifically want me in a hood with you? is it to fight me basically? i mean you know how annoying i get as town when attacked right?

[innocentvillager]

lukewarm is there a reason that you're actually upset by the mech talk? i trust the process but some of us haven't played this setup before and want to convince ourselves/think through it first, i think this is reasonably productive discussion

im just gonna assume dwlee did the math right, given that i think your latest post makes a lot of sense

fwiw
-I disagree with the "best case scenario being a 1v5 mountainous" because this ignores the fact that we get a 1/6 shot in scum the day before that.
-also i think NKA is overrated, but the asymmetric bussing dynamic definitely seems like it can make for some good info
-also 4% EV is a LOT imo lol

honestly as im writing this i kind of think it's worth discussing an idea where we don't "decide on a hood to kill in". It seems close enough that maybe we should just sort everyone and have everyone on the table for today and play it like a normal game on D1 for the most part. That way we don't hyperfocus on a particular set of players and can get more cross hood associatives.

[innocentvillager]

-also 4% EV is a LOT imo lol
-
It seems close enough that maybe we should just sort everyone and have everyone on the table for today

Is 4% EV a LOT, or is it close enough that we should just ignore it? lol

okay the idea is that for me it kind of boils down to +4% EV vs better associatives

and it's not clear which one's better to me/it's close

so im kind of leaning just playing d1 normally and everyone being a possible elim candidate

i would personally still like to kill to group sigma apple beta because if we decide to kill NSLuke vs mc it's 50% to hit scum but objectively without knowing my alignment i think it's close

[innocentvillager]

actually honestly i feel i should be able to have a decent read on NS by d2 unless his meta changed a lot. im also okay waiting until then and tunneling whoever i think i scum then. so i guess im sort of indifferent, if we kill in kappa delta alpha group we'll still have chances to blow through the tri beta group

[innocentvillager]

oh cool prism is town

[innocentvillager]

i thought fire was town for something besides the tryharding but i can't remember why

std ik ur not much of a meta person so what's the reason behind fire tryhard = town?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: dunnstral

[innocentvillager]

IV, why are you currently voting in the group of 6?

honestly i did forget i was voting dwlee who i think is town i blame pav's unreadable vc color (n.o seems like im the only one with this issue)

also idgaf about the group of 6/3 thing rly rn, i loosely prefer g3 because im in it but i don't want to get caught up in it anymore

[innocentvillager]

I realized something horrible while out running.

It's not just that I'm waiting for notscience to post so I can sort him, or that the game would be better with full participation

I

need

notscience. I need him to show up, to say something I disagree with, to condescend to him in my corrections, to treat him like an errant teenager even though he is the same age.

Without all of it I am empty, aimless, a hollow shell devoid of purpose.

what's your dynamic with NS/why do you need him here to sort him in particular?

[innocentvillager]

oh yeah i think IV is town because he said so

ok u are the second person who has said that and i can't tell if ur joking or not

I think Dragons is town because he is spending more time writing space romance than actually playing the game.

?

[innocentvillager]

{dwlee, fire, prism}
{std, kuriyama?}
{todoroki}
{rest}

[innocentvillager]

oh wow wait rest is literally just dunnstral and esther, i forget how small these games are

huh

well ive solved the game :3

[innocentvillager]

they're even from different hoods too wow what a coincidence locking this in as my final solve

[innocentvillager]

it just feels like the tryhardness is coming from a place of town

std im trying to think of what to ask you to get you to use more words to explain that but im not really sure what to say tbh

i can sort of see how you think fire's tryharding comes from town and not scum being performative but i can't really explain it myself either so that's not helpful

i dont' really think you as scum use so few words to explain ur reads, it feels like ur just going "vibes" and "just because"

which i loosely remember you doing as town in the past/having little elaboration but not to this extent, but i also think u don't do this as scum

[innocentvillager]

std i just wanna be like u and solve the game on page 5

im 8 pages late but here i am

2/2 daddy

[innocentvillager]

also idgaf about the group of 6/3 thing rly rn, i loosely prefer g3 because im in it but i don't want to get caught up in it anymore

VOTE: dunnstral

oh wow wait rest is literally just dunnstral and esther, i forget how small these games are

huh

well ive solved the game :3

so, what's the deal here? because, like, im the player in the 3-group and the player with a wagon on me, so if you believe me/dunn is the most likely solve, arent i the vote? i guess you could be going for the autowin if youre not so sure on todoroki vs. me, but

i get that killing the scum in the group of 6 is autowin but i feel it's just so unlikely

idk lol

ok boss VOTE: mc Esther

[innocentvillager]

im rly busy but why the fuck was Todoroki at E1?

@Dwlee are you not scared of a hammer?

[innocentvillager]

let's do like "intent to E1" or something

it's way too early for this shit and there aren't even PRs

[innocentvillager]

My first game we limmed big pool and won.
Second game we limmed in small pool and lost.

Both were day 1 scumflips.

- Norwee

truly irrefutable evidence to kill big hood

[innocentvillager]

Like, you could say I'm hedging by not voting you too which is a totally fair point to make! Or that I'm not really pushing IV (which should frankly hint that I'm town, IV knows scum-me LOVED the chance to get in his head and twist him in circles), and instead letting him do his own thing and think about what he's posted.

okay imma be honest i was sort of gonna keep it private but there's no point anymore

this is prolly like the main argument for me townleaning you / ur not really here or trying to pocket me or anything like that

i remember when we were hydraing together u wanted to go HARD in that familiar plist if we were scum and Bulge straight TRd you for not doing that, lmao. My guess is you two would've gone harder had you rolled scum.

i weakly feel worse because you've mentioned this yourself but i still think you would've forced more thread presence as scum/i believe Luke to an extent when he says he would've pushed you to post more as well

[innocentvillager]

i don't really have an opinion on mc's posting other than i don't get townpings from it but ill relook that slot later when im not busy and dead

[innocentvillager]

is that E1? can someone unvote? I will take a look at this later when I have time sorry work is crazy

[innocentvillager]

Prism you should announce E1 if you’re going to do it, that is not a good look for you

Imagine if Esther is scum here and just lolhammers

[innocentvillager]

The above is kind of putting words into your mouth, but my point is that you're sitting here in the middle after being AFK for half the game and now want to cry foul when we're actually voting.

If you're busy, okay, but I have given more than enough and from my perspective you're either scum flopping in preparation for tomorrow or are just getting in the way for zero reason.

why are u calling me scum while voteparking the other person in my hood?

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: mc esther ((((:

oh boy this is gonna be fun

[innocentvillager]

like let's just kill confirmed scum ?? why are we trying to kill big hood

i know i know im town and y'all don't but like... cmon it's at worst a 50/50

[innocentvillager]

i also felt that his concern over e-1 seemed really fake, i didnt mention that second point at the time, mostly because i was sick of being told i was hedging.

i was AT WORK AND STD JUST STRAIGHT KILLED HIM

[innocentvillager]

nah fam i am trying to kill confirmed scum

[innocentvillager]

BIG HOOD IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS ANYMORE ILL BE DEAD BEFORE THEN

LETS GO BIATCHHHHH

[innocentvillager]

FUCKKK

[innocentvillager]

That's disappointing IV.

I told Firebringer that you would succeed in our little test of not just insta-1v1-ing MC Esther and prove how much townier you are by going above your station and considering the whole game.
But imagine my disappointment when you just say you couldn't care less about that.

- Norwee

ah cool, shade time

i don't know what you were testing/why you expected town!me to play a certain way that fits your agenda. but AT this point my value added here is taking down confirmed scum. I can add some value on who is scum in the big hood but i doubt i will be able to get it right with more than 20-30% accuracy when there's 5 people here.

i simply feel like the best thing for town to do is kill in me/esther, especially fmpov but even objectively. I was planning on jumping into 1v1 today and dying next day regardless of how the battle went. im not someone who cases tf out of people or has godly reads and expects everyone to postmortem sheep me - that's just not realistically going to happen/where i can best spend my limited effort these days.

If town is set on killing in big hood, i will look and add my two cents. but we will have to resolve me/esther the next day. or the next day. The chance of autowin here is simply not that high and i don't want to 2v3 tomorrow because that's just really bad. The value of whatever associatives we come up I just don't feel are that useful as they can be easily manipulated. anyway I'm rambling - this is my opinion fmpov and if town really wants to kill big hood whatever i'll go along with it

[innocentvillager]

obviously i dont have much on innocentvillager and dont really expect to survive the day. imma iso him later (phoneposting at a friend's rn), i mentioned my main questionmark over him yesterday (although tbh on reflection im not actually sure how much i stand by it, again, gonna need a reread). i also felt that his concern over e-1 seemed really fake, i didnt mention that second point at the time, mostly because i was sick of being told i was hedging.

VOTE: innocentvillager

ya this first sentence feels fake af looking back

clearly she was going to put in the effort looking back. What kind of town says that and then proceeds to suddenly up the activity across like 5 pages? this post implies there's not much fight in her but she's out here grinding. Which I RESPECT IT dawg the AtE game is strong there. But in context it's scummy and just not coming from a real headspace.

[innocentvillager]

I'm leaning IV as scum but can see it being mc esther as well.

I'm thinking Dwlee of Save the Dragons in the big hood

why?

[innocentvillager]

gth here's where im at

{puppy} - approaching obvtown tonally/energy and doesn't endgame anyway. kill with fire before elo but there's no value added for me here saying this.
{prism} - Prism's confident bloodthirst for Todoroki yesterday was weird and putting him back at E1 was bad too. Yes it wasn't actually E1 but he thought it was functionally. im not gonna pretend to know prism meta inside and out but meta-wise everything else the slot has done seems tonally townie though. im not as confident here as puppy and it feels more likely he was just tunneled on todo.
{dwlee} - still don't think scum!dwlee BoPs themselves early on me for no reason but i have zero opinion on anything else they've done
{dunnstral, std} - i guess it's in this tier? neither player has done much but STD went for the kill immediately when we had plenty of time left but I almost don't think scum do nothing all game and then quickhammer for lols. It's possible though. Dunnstral has done nothing all game but shade me once which is just null for him - ive seen him do this as town and scum too.

[innocentvillager]

this post implies there's not much fight in her but she's out here grinding. Which I RESPECT IT dawg the AtE game is strong there.

I think you're in for a very rude awakening.

what do you mean?

[innocentvillager]

uh read my post again i think you are misinterpreting it?

[innocentvillager]

Very fair and deserved criticism.

??

[innocentvillager]

uh lol it's fine, i do that too

your posting confused me a lot for a second but whatever

obviously i dont have much on innocentvillager and dont really expect to survive the day. imma iso him later (phoneposting at a friend's rn), i mentioned my main questionmark over him yesterday (although tbh on reflection im not actually sure how much i stand by it, again, gonna need a reread). i also felt that his concern over e-1 seemed really fake, i didnt mention that second point at the time, mostly because i was sick of being told i was hedging.

VOTE: innocentvillager

Still not sure I buy the point. Town absolutely starts from a place of demoralization only to catch inspired fire.

are you saying im scum here...?

for your point like maybe? i mean fmpov that's just not what happened lol but idk i don't think it happens that drastically and quickly. even objectively i would just say more likely it's some sort of subconscious AtE to curry favor but wtf do i know. i just came in ready to fight from the get go and my opponent starts out by basically admitting defeat before spamming 3 pages so the approach just doesn't make sense to me.

[innocentvillager]

i just reiso'd dwlee and yeah i literally have no opinion on their posting. maybe the BoP on me early was to pocket me honestly so idk if i townlean them that much anymore. it's like borderline unreadable and i would want to see more from that slot because they definitely can obvtown when they put in the effort on later days

[innocentvillager]

You have a habit of using two hyphens instead of one.

The other player who does this, and has failed to change it across alts previously, is Morning Tweet.

i literally /inned for morning tweet's game in theme queue

prism is town for completely botching esther's identity, lmao

[innocentvillager]

I feel decent about IV town

y

[innocentvillager]

imma be hypocritical here, but cmon lol this seems weirdly pessimistic. dont you trust your ability to scumhunt a little more than this?

fmpov my reads change people's scum equity a bit but ive too recently had even confident reads go completely haywire. i think anyone who thinks they can consistently nail 1 scum in 5 with a higher accuracy than like 50% are deluded. and thats like even for the best best players imo. I bet I would personally seriously struggle to reach an accuracy rate of even 33%.

the point is i was feeling that neither of us were going to be here tomorrow so our stated opinion on the last scum isn't going to matter much. people don't listen to dead townies anyway even if i did get the point of confidence. like atp my strongest reads here is i don't think it is fire or prism but im never going to be more than like 90-95% sure

[innocentvillager]

You have a habit of using two hyphens instead of one.

The other player who does this, and has failed to change it across alts previously, is Morning Tweet.

i literally /inned for morning tweet's game in theme queue

prism is town for completely botching esther's identity, lmao

How is this even remotely indicative?

because i bet you would've talked about her identity in the scum PT. you would've addressed her as Morning Tweet and you would've had this conversation a long time ago. i believe that you just found out now that esther is not Morning Tweet which makes the pairing between you two very unlikely.

[innocentvillager]

your scumgame is very good (or at least, it is right now)

god ur such a scumfuck lmao F out of here with that shit

[innocentvillager]

where is dunnstral?? i want to see what he has to say about me being the scum here.

[innocentvillager]

I feel decent about IV town

y

I'm leaning IV as scum but can see it being mc esther as well.

I'm thinking Dwlee of Save the Dragons in the big hood

why?

i don't think either of these were answered

[innocentvillager]

one scumreads me and one townreads me and neither of them have given any reasoning why

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: InnocentVillager

can you explain what your problem with me is? this is like the 4th time I’m asking dude

[innocentvillager]

I think maybe IV should be flipped

wait, i think there are numbers of this now? dwlee/esther/prism/dunn?

no

[innocentvillager]

I have been busy lately but also have just been trying to not stay playing/worry about mafiascum as frequently.

Esther clearly wants it today, I’ll give her that well done. I did not expect to lose in the wim battle.

I’ll post thoughts later when I squeak out a second because the idea of losing this 1v1 is really starting to piss me off.

[innocentvillager]

prism is obvtown and anyone who thinks he’s scum at this point is just bad

also what is so egregious about my quick check in last night? I’m clearly upset about how this is going, wouldn’t I be as either alignment?

[innocentvillager]

i think we should kill in group of 3 first

i get that killing the scum in the group of 6 is autowin but i feel it's just so unlikely

i feel like killing in group of 3 first is better because we are higher chance to hit scum earlier. we are guaranteed even we completely suck and kill two townies d1,d2 to kill scum at 2 v 3 then turns into a f3 elo. By that point we'll have associatives to look back on. We're basically guaranteed a flip if we focus our attention on the the g3.

If I don't correctly read IV this game I should probably end up BoP'd

VOTE: dwlee99

i feel as though killing in group of 6 is a waste of time and we are gambling too hard. if we hit town we are not much closer to solving that group. i think someone would need to be really scummy or the group of 3 would have to be really hard for us to not want to go group of 3.

VOTE: dunnstral

this point's already been litigated, but i think there's some detail missing

IV, why are you currently voting in the group of 6?

honestly i did forget i was voting dwlee who i think is town i blame pav's unreadable vc color (n.o seems like im the only one with this issue)

also idgaf about the group of 6/3 thing rly rn, i loosely prefer g3 because im in it but i don't want to get caught up in it anymore

doesnt even bother discussing his dunn vote lmao. i dont really buy "dgaf about the group of 6/3 thing" as an explanation, given earlier stronger phrases like "so unlikely" and "waste of time"; sure, i believe he didnt care in the sense that he didnt view it as worth arguing about, i believe that he didnt care in the sense that he'd vote six if the only viable wagon he liked was in the six. but neither of those things are relevant factors for these votes. this also ties in with my later/earlier (depending on where we're counting from, lmao) observation about his me/dunn solve -- which is the one place where his "someone would need to be really scummy" condition would actually kick in as a reason to vote six, but is the only place where he acted in accordance with his stated beliefs about voting three (when prompted lmao).

What the fuck how is even an argument?

[innocentvillager]

i legitimately have no idea what the accusation is here

I use my vote pretty jumpily and however i feel like. I didn’t explain the Dunnstral vote - okay how does that make me scum?? I later parked my vote on you. I don’t get it

[innocentvillager]

i think tonally it’s very obvious you’re here to figure out this clusterfuck and are owning up to your shit todo tunnel yesterday. You stopped the almost lolhammer on dwlee when people were running that slot up (that reminds me to take a look at that again). Actually maybe this means dwlee is scum because scum!Esther prolly just hammers there but I’ll have to think a bit more. But as for you i don’t see what the scum motivation for you to do whatever you’re doing is.

I haven’t read all the noise in detail so I don’t know who exactly reads you which way but I did see some shade on you at one point.

I’ve played with town!you enough to know that this is the methodical and logical approach as town. I’ve called you for being obvtown before and was right every time and I thjnk I’m right again here, but honestly I don’t fucking know how much I trust that rn because I’m a little tilted.

that’s not even counting for the fact that there’s basically no way you and Esther fake that theatre bs about not knowing her alt or whatever

[innocentvillager]

Cool I took some time off this site and suddenly I go from prolly town to scum?

Granted this isn’t the best example of my obvtown game (you would know if it was one!) but i doubt this what my scumgame looks like. I dont double down on this. If dwlee wasn’t my partner I prolly just hammer them too so sure maybe I’m scum with dwlee in some weird world. Actually no because if we’re scum we do way more theatre bullshit/distancing etc and this isn’t a plist who is familiar with how we play as scum together. I probably don’t put NS in my hood but idk what my hood criteria is as scum so lmao.

[innocentvillager]

We did in fact have the votes to flip you and you stopped posting.

It is nice that you are angry now, the next morning, but it also does not do a lot to inspire confidence given that I just keyed in on this as something to be wary of.

? you called my check in bad, I’m not sure what else you think you said

[innocentvillager]

ok I’m out. don’t hammer me while I’m gone I’ll get to this shit

[innocentvillager]

I am intentionally not going to do anything this (real-life) day. I am currently alive in another game.

If people would rather not wait on me we can just YOLO it, but I still prefer waiting until I can work back through, and I think we have time for that before deadline.

Okay why exactly do you want to hammer me again?

You said it yourself - my D1 was towny and probably just outside my scumrange. Why reverse that read just because of one random catchup I made? I don't just magically change alignments once I post a catchup less than 2 sentences.

[innocentvillager]

Sounds good that you’re getting tilted IV.
Maybe that means you’ll be more transparently easy to read as an result.

- Norwee

This post rubs me the wrong way from a out of game perspective, I think tilting people into alignment spewing is not really how we should be playing this game. But I feel hypocritical calling you out for this tbh because I have literally done the exact same thing to other people (pushed them to the point where they just started townspewing, partly on purpose to elicit some sort of emotional reaction). Nevertheless I don't think we should be glad that I got uber tilted there, and I've calmed down a bit since tbh.

[innocentvillager]

Spoiler: god fuck this game

Okay I did a bit of skimming over the past few pages - I remember why now I haven't been posting that much in this game. Maybe I'm just too detached from it at this point since I was doing other things on the weekend during that time, but if you actually look at the past few pages as a whole it's just a whole bunch of fucking nothing - arguing over G6 from person X's perspective, or "this person wants to go G3 because Y" - just dumb, super speculative things that you can talk about and fake all day

I could just have zero reading comprehension skills but honestly at this point I'm so done with the "We should go G6" or "We should go G3!" circlejerking that seems to dominate today's discussion - there are so many arguments for each scenario and it's kind of unclear which one's better objectively. I'm back to just wanting to flip whoever the fuck is scummy irregardless of group especially now that it's clear to me that people don't really want to flip esther anymore, and I really think that's the approach we should've taken from the fucking start of D1 and D2 instead of just inviting scum to posture around it forever - maybe I was partly complicit in that discussion with my vote to go G3 but I digress. But my point is partaking in this ridiculous discussion doesn't make you town.

The bottom line is what I see fmpov is scum taking advantage of the fact that I wasn't posting nearly as much as D1 so they felt emboldened to use this for esther to try and spew and pocket people with white noise participation. I'm just reading these posts and a lot of me is just going "what the fuck has esther actually contributed to the gamestate"? Like she's just here sort of loosely in the conversation and giving loose statements here and there totally relaxed. I don't know how you could POSSIBLY be relaxed as town in this case - yes I was the favorite for town going into today and the start of today but even then I was FUCKING NERVOUS about this and ready to go. Esther's demeanor here has NONE of that - it's just her being flat and present because she's already outlasted expectations by getting Todoroki killing early on D1 (which, I know there was a decent amount of discussion around this - NS gets townier as it goes on so I believe it was in scum's best interest to get on this wagon. Could the wagon have been all town? Objectively, like almost no fucking way given how much it benefits scum. Yes fmpov that scum is esther. Yes I was parked on esther during that time - and no I didn't do it because I was trying to chain her elim today, which is a really dumb argument because no scum actually cares about doing that.) so she's literally just freerolling this elim and lucked out that, OH NO, innocentvillager WASN'T HERE for like TWO RL DAYS.

Also the way that esther keeps tiptoeing around/talking to me and asking me questions is really rubbing me off the wrong way - like what is the fucking point? What is she trying to accomplish? To me the explanation is pretty clear - posturing. She's engaging everyone and pretending like this is just some normal day posting as if nothing special's going on, "oh yeah I'm scumhunting here, I'm participating in this discussion, asking everyone questions, etc." She's obviously not trying to discern my alignment so to me she's just going through the motions.

I'll add as an addendum that this 1v1 is fucking with my mind in a weird way, and I think it's not happening to esther because she's scum and/or maybe I'm just a very particular kind of person. I can't remember the last time I've been in this situation as either alignment - specifically, I mean that it's severely coloring my view of the game and how I interpret esther's posts. I'm seeing all the crap in her posting when it's like "oh, it's so fucking obvious she's scum" but in reality/objectively it's probably NAI to maybe slightly scum!indicative at best - even town!indicative stuff at worst. So yes some of this is probably forced/stretchy but that's just the way the fucking cookie crumbles I guess. It's just really tilting to see her be present and keep saying "lmao I'm going to get misflipped/I just get snap voted in melo" when it's very clear she's been continually swaying people to her side just by being present with people at a given time. IT'S FAKE ATE AND SELF DEPRECATION TO SEEM RELAXED GUYS I don't know how else to put this. I don't know why I'm not online with any of you at the same time but I guarantee if I was around with the same presence and times as her it'd be extra easy for me to "be involved" - this is me trying extra hard to try to compensate for that.

But my point about her headspace just being totally wack this game still stands. I'm not sure how many of you have been in an intense 1v1 situation but what esther's doing is NOT it, and I can tell you right now I can't even fathom playing the way she has been - the easy explanation here is that she is scum and in the wrong headspace here.

The other question here I have for people: who is my scumpartner?

It's not Puppies or Faker a) because they are obvtown b) there's no reason I'd be trying this hard here if either of them were scum especially when I HATE being scum. I can point to self meta examples where I just give up at this stage in the game (okay take 2175 Normal as an example) because I think my partner is going to win but wifom etc etc. If in some world you think I'm scum here, I could like maybe see myself going this hard if my partner is actually in danger of getting eliminated.

It's not Dwlee because as I've already mentioned our approach would be way different.

It's not STD because I don't shade him for the Todo hammer like I did. I'd be pretty sussed about hammering in general and doubt I would let STD do that. We'd also try to be way more distanced with each other rather than just me loosely calling him leantown for some dumb reason on D1.

It's not Dunnstral because he's been calling me scum with 0 explanation for the entire game.

I don't see how I'm ever scum with any of these players so if someone would like to posit one of these solves involving me then PLEASE enlighten me.

I wish I had a solve for us but I honestly just don't know. I'm still fairly confident it's in {dwlee, dunnstral, STD} but that's nothing new or surprising. If Prism/Fire aren't the next two nightkills then something really weird is up and I would reconsider them again. I'm GOING TO LOOK more into this on future days I promise but right now my priority is defense against the bullshit that I'm seeing - it's getting late and I'm cutting into my bedtime by the time I'll be done with this post.

Honestly, if there are particular reasons that people do townread esther's posts, can you just quote them my way and I'll explain why scum!esther makes that post? I'm simply not seeing what is towny about her posts

Okay I originally was typing this to respond to random quotes that I saw but now that I've typed all this, this almost feels like somewhat of an afterthought but I think it's going to emphasize my earlier points better.

Although maybe it is not as likely Esther/Dwlee.
Since Esther seems to be really naive about the possibility of bussing here.
Still leaves the option of IV/Dwlee though.

- Norwee

I've mentioned why IV/Dwlee is a bad solve.
But gee, I wonder what scum!esther would do if Dwlee and esther were bussing - she'd totally say that bussing is NAI for them! That totally doesn't defeat the point of it in the first place!

Idk if my sarcasm is getting the point across but what I'm saying is that if they actually were bussing it's very conceivable to me that she would try to push some towncred/antiassociative angle there.

how the fuck does maf!dwlee win if their buddy dies today?

like I'm being nitpicky but this tone is really weird - it's really not that hard to envision a scenario where anyone here endgames.

idk maybe it's just being ignored because, "

why answer questions from maf

", but i'll post it once more

inno, pretending youre town for a sec, when did you start actually believing that the team is me/dunn (as opposed to, merely pushing it for reactions)?

Okay first of all, you literally scumslipped with the bolded - you just called yourself maf. And it's not like you confused it with the other direction because at no point did I ask you a question even remotely like this, so the maf refers to you in your sentence, not me.

Yes ik it's a wording nitpick and last like 3 times I tried to explain to people that these came from scum no one listened to me - maybe fine, because at least one of those times I was wrong. So whatever I won't complain if people don't buy this.

Second see my above argument for why esther's attitude doesn't make sense here.

But I don't know why you think I was ever set on a you/Dunn solve - I might've mentioned it a bit ago on like page 8 but that was largely joking. To put it in context, that was really early in the game when I gave out shotgun reads and had you two in my lowest tiers, and it makes like zero sense to me why you're still bringing that up

Probably by convincing people to go dunn->std

The last few pages have sold me on Esther being town. I will want to meta but the last two pages are very, very sharp if she is scum.

I strongly prefer going in 3.

I know I have things to answer later, will get to them.

Explanation: mc esther scum should probably hammer me there but didn't

I think dunnstral is scum

I'm kind of back and forth on this but reviewing how high esther's wim has been the page 10-15 pages I'm back to thinking this isn't really true. I was kind of gone for a bit/not posting nearly as much on D2 and esther was clearly fighting on D2 - it wasn't at all clear that she was going to get misyeeted at that point in time. Maybe at the start of the day, but not at that point in time. If she's scum with like Dunnstral or STD I think it's really risky for her to hammer you because it could easily just go esther -> Dunnstral/STD for a town win.

I think maybe IV should be flipped

This turnaround is bad because a) completely unexplained b) very convenient timing right when popular opinion was for some magical reason shifting away from esther and onto me. I think dwlee/esther is a real possibility but again I could see the other pairings too atm.

i think iv expected to coast by today lmao

I wouldn't say coast but yeah I wasn't expecting such a big fight from you. Regardless you gave me a challenging 1v1 experience that I'll never forget, so thanks for that at least <3

Brighter can you explain the esther scumread?

Hammering last page isn't guaranteed but is fine play from her point of view depending on partner

I think my previous pages summarizes our scumread of Esther pretty well.
I agree on you that they have levelled up their play considerable in day 2 though. And especially recently.
So i'm not as sold on them being scum anymore, especially since IV has been pretty lacking by comparison.

- Norwee

Again this is kind of a ridiculous attitude to take in terms of reading but I'm not really faulting you in particular for it because I think many people (myself included) have used similar arguments. But it seems like this site is turning into a "whoever's been here more recently gets more townread" meta. Somehow everything that happened before gets like exponentially deweighted and forgotten while the recent posting is the only thing people seem to remember about creating reads. I think it's really easy for mafia to get by - if I were scum here for example I would've been intentionally posting a lot more frequently to remind people that I'm here and contributing shit. So let's stop siding with whoever happens to be "present and posting" in a given moment and actually try to figure who's been scum/town this game

[innocentvillager]

i did not proofread that i just clicked submit because ive spent too much time on this incoherent rant

legitimately don't think this is in my scumrange but whatever

If nothing else I know huge walls don't really frequently get townread in practice, but now you can't RUN. If you're voting me here today, no more of this "IV probscum cuz esther seems townish","IV WASN'T HERE LATELY OH NO","IV HAD ONE UNDERWHELMING 2 SENTENCE CHECKIN" crap

Stick a reason for why I am scum and commit to it

Or you know what, tell me why esther is actually fucking town and not just dropping white noise to appear present, take my wall apart and let's talk about it.

[innocentvillager]

if we can lock one of dunn/std/dwlee as town.
Which I am nearing the idea that Dwlee lock town. Then maybe we can lim in the 3?

Why is Dwlee lock again..?

[innocentvillager]

I do not believe this is a good faith conversation. While the statement is literally about the pairings, I do not think that was your only point. You also previously accused me of shifting the blame for Todoroki onto you, and have gone out of your way in several posts to take snipes that lie one the border between personal and play (ie. "I get that being wrong is your thing this game") even if this is not the immediate topic.

I don't want to talk about this with you further, either now or later.

Puppies posts on this page are otherwise dead on with my sentiments, thank you

I don’t know if I’ll have much time for this tonight

[innocentvillager]

Uhh I was gonna respond to that and say @Prism hopefully you don’t take Dunn’s comments too personally and honestly you were far from the only one on Todoroki, hope that doesn’t offend you

And also let me know where your reservations are about me/Esther being town, that will be nice to hear. I believe you had me as town earlier in this game and I think you should review and see that is still true of me now.

[innocentvillager]

IV the reason I'm not answering you is because I've already explained my reads and I made it clear that the 6p hood was the focus today, and you keep trying to get me to talk about the 3p hood. I would have liked to have eliminated Dwlee today but we have to play around Prism already so when both of you/mc esther refuse to hammer dwlee (and one of you is mafia, by the way) we have to play around prism which means eliminating in the 3p hood in order to get a town consensus.

If you are town then you are the bully and not vice versa. You deadlocked something that from your point of view confirmed scum wasn't hammering, and convincing Prism that they're wrong is impossible.

Can you elaborate on like, everything here? Im not really sure what you’re saying.

Like I don’t believe you explained why Esther is town and I am scum so I would like to see an explanation here

[innocentvillager]

It's not Dwlee because as I've already mentioned our approach would be way different.

It's not STD because I don't shade him for the Todo hammer like I did. I'd be pretty sussed about hammering in general and doubt I would let STD do that. We'd also try to be way more distanced with each other rather than just me loosely calling him leantown for some dumb reason on D1.

I don't believe either of these are clearing

but even then I was FUCKING NERVOUS about this and ready to go.

wait really? i never read nervousness in ur posts u read like lazy

Laziness might be a part of my tone, I would call it more Stream of conscious/

When I say nervous I mean more about the outcome, I know the stakes are high today to not like scum literally win the whole g3 and give us another free misflip - I think this game becomes very very difficult in a f3 of dwlee std Dunnstral

[innocentvillager]

Phone posting is hard

For first quote I mean clearing is a strong word but I do think they make the pairings very unlikely given how I approach being scum.

[innocentvillager]

Dunnstral/Esther is plausible because of how aligned they are from a first order level but Im honestly not sure because they almost look too aligned that they’re really poorly distante

[innocentvillager]

Hi, due to RL stuffs for the next unspecified period of time I am doing a self imposed posting/reading posting ban outside of the hours of 8am - 4pm EST on weekdays, and after 10pm on Sun - Thurs. I need to start keeping myself more accountable - sorry for any inconvenience this causes

[innocentvillager]

*I won’t be on during these specified times

[innocentvillager]

It’s just self discipline issues honestly

Im disappointed you’ve incorrectly decided Esther is the town but you’re in an unenviable position. if I get a chance tomorrow I will try to sway you but it seems you’re too far deep somehow

Anyway, ill see tomorrow. My ban starts now

[innocentvillager]

By "clean" play, I mean I do not think esther has been even slightly opportunistic today, and has not been hesitant in hunting in 6, selling her case, and ruling out others (eg. on Dunnstral). Her points have all been natural to me, her realtime interactions too, and the only one I thought was out there was the one about me pushing to go in 6. If she hasn't played with me before she also will not understand my scum POV on strategy.

1048 in particular I want to highlight as a very, very good post. I took a very different angle on the IV post that I will discuss in a second, and it definitely has scum incentive in trying to nudge me along, but is more likely just chewing seriously on the partner question and what motivate IV to give that read.

I saw your tonal point, but I didn't find it persuasive. I talked about it earlier. I do similar as scum, but I copied it after losing to town players repeatedly. They're also very open about the approach, which again might just be the next layer of scumplay, but it is again extremely clean if so.

I think IV's day leans on the scum side, too. I again think the cut-off check-in and how little fight in him he has is indicative, and if I am wrong then okay. I read through the wall, and while it may have been the tilt, I did not find it cohesive or convincing, particularly in points like "Why is esther so calm?" when as scum she has more reason to be nervous and struggle to post, while IV's "calm" has been in the form of lost energy at a time when I expect he would have gone harder. He does not like playing scum and gets very demotivated even if he can put up a good fight when needed, and I think the wall lines up with that. His defense of me today, when I was not on the table but IV was, really suggested to me it was an attempt to win my vote back before it slipped.

She hasn't been outwardly opportunistic, sure, but not all scum play with that "evil opportunistic" mindset. Maybe you do or think that's what good scumplay is, but to me it's clear she's just going through the motions and trying to appear townie - that is a totally plausible scum approach even from an objective standpoint. Her points can be natural because she is just talking about setup spec with everyone else in realtime and that's not too difficult to fake.

I don't know why you think her being more open to hunting in 6 is townie, especially when some people have already made it clear that they think hunting in 6 is better. It's just so much easier to see from my perspective that killing in g3 is better (note that this is now g2 and g5) when I know it's better to just yeet a confirmed scum ASAP, whereas she's more interested in survival and appearing townie/posturing.

I think you like 1048 because it aligns with what you thought was possible I was doing. But why doesn't this come from scum trying to nudge you along as you mentioned (spoiler: it does)?

I thought at that point it was getting increasingly clear that you were emotionally invested in going between us and it seemed like you were really trying to figure out what the fuck was going on. It's maybe not the easiest to describe concretely, but I would be very surprised if you as scum could fake the energy that you have been giving off this day. Also in general I think "opportunistically winning your vote by hard TRing you" randomly is not really a thing scum do, much less me - I don't think it actually does much to pocket the other person because they might just get paranoid.

I don't know why you keep using the word clean - earlier your usage suggests it means non-opportunistic, but to me clean just means consistent. It's not difficult for scum to be consistent, but it is difficult to for scum to be in an appropriate headspace and emotional space at all times - I think scum!esther has the natural white noise participation part down but not the former.

My check-in frequency is a bit reduced lately because of me needed to balance RL better - I even had to go as far as to do a self-imposed ban. I understand that you think my posting timing can be indicative of alignment and I can't fault you for using that - however just keep in mind that there are out of game things influencing that in this instance.

[innocentvillager]

You were also in 9:12, am I just crazy to think that IV can fake this?

Never in my 10 years of playing this game have I posted a long wall like that as scum, but take that for what you will. Maybe some shorter ones back in the day, but nothing as tilted and intense as I got that night. I'm not one to effort much as scum (9:12 is an exception but I put an uncharacteristic amount of effort into that one because I had more time, the plist was fun, and I wanted to put up a last ditch fight).

[innocentvillager]

I think a Dunnstral/esther solve sounds fine, but I want to see where Dwlee and STD come out with their reevaluation with me/esther especially if it's with a vote; that may be pretty telling of how who scum is and how they are approaching this game going into f3. I'm at E1 and I would really prefer not being at E1 before they finish - @Prism I know this game is giving you a really big headache but I implore you to unvote to give people time to process. @Dunnstral you too, if you come around to this/are willing to consider that I'm town here.

[innocentvillager]

i think it could be dunnstral in the 6 i think dwlee is more likely

as far as esther goes it just has to do with their posting vs. IV's posting, IV's seems more genuine and seems to come from a town position. i don't like the way esther just multiposts it seems to be efforting in an attempt to look townie. Yeah I know that IV's big wall can be construed as that as well and i'm wrestling with that too so i'm not sold on esther i just think it more likely.

I wrote the big wall because I was getting pretty tilted that people were buying her flurry of posts and noise as townie and piling onto me.

[innocentvillager]

This post right here is just slimy. I also don't even see why "what if esther quickhammers" would be a concern town!iv actually thinks of in that moment.

How is it slimy? Prism thought he E1'd Todoroki but did not mention it. I thought this was like borderline newbie queue stuff but maybe I'm wrong (Prism please don't take that as an attack on your play lmao, I don't want to piss you off for no reason)

I don't know why you find my thought so weird? If esther was scum, she benefitted A LOT from Todoroki's quick and early death. I've mentioned this many times but I wanted Todo alive because NS is easier to read as the day go on. This is something I believe but also something I believe he made clear already.

[innocentvillager]

Prism I don't think you addressed any of my actual counterpoints that I gave in 1201

ignore all of the hunting in 6

Again like why is this townie? It's just not the priority for our slots today and fmpov it's clear she did

all of the motions, not missing a step, etc

What does this even mean??

when I actively hate things from the IV slot.

What do you hate beyond my "activity" level again?

You literally say I'm low energy as scum now when I just gave you a perfectly valid reason of why my activity is spotty - meanwhile esther's just popping in and posting "clean" white noise or whatever

I'm sorry if you're stressed out about this game but I you should at least consider it? Like at least admit that you're voting me because you're too stressed out about this game and just sticking with your lean and don't want to admit that you're conflicted, rather than essentially saying all the evidence points towards me - it just doesn't. Sorry if that's coming off as harsh but it's my slot on the line here.

IV can you vote Dunnstral.

- Norwee

I will vote there if I have to/there are not the numbers to kill esther. Dunnstral, STD, Dwlee are all better than my elimination today.

[innocentvillager]

im also just, less concerned than i was earlier in the day that im the "guaranteed" miselim; i'd still rather get our pool sorted today rather than tomorrow, we're a pretty fucking dicey yeelo, but im no longer feeling "yeah lol we literally autolose to my d1 play if we get the six-group elimination wrong, i simply cant vote there".

You've literally had Prism and Dunnstral (regardless of his alignment) voting in a block with you and dwlee mostly undecided and only NOW had this revelation after I pointed out it was ridiculous that you didn't earlier? wtf

[innocentvillager]

It just all makes zero sense to me

[innocentvillager]

You literally say I'm low energy as scum now when I just gave you a perfectly valid reason of why my activity is spotty - meanwhile esther's just popping in and posting "clean" white noise or whatever

Like my motivation changes as RL ebbs and flows but I think it's been clear that last few days since I started losing that I'm here to win it so I'm not sure why you are still so adamant about me being lower energy at one random point in time, if you think that's scum!indicative for me

pedit: Dunnstral hi can you please explain your reads on me and esther or quote where you explained them?

[innocentvillager]

waiting for dwlee’s analysis but I reminder that I won’t be here from 10pm EST to 4pm EST tomorrow but will make sure to be on shortly after that

i still think we should go in g3 - i worry about how accurate a last minute g6 elimination will be - but promise will move my vote at that time to avoid deadlock.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Dwlee

You see I'm gonna post analysis soon so you put me to E-1? What is this?

why are you so upset about this but you called my callout of prism’s E1 slimy

like comparatively I don’t think STDs E1 is that unreasonable given deadline proximity. Prisms E1 we still had like 6+ days left I think

[innocentvillager]

yeah Prism is absolutely cracked

it makes me think every correct TR I had on him before was literally just pure luck

Thanks for carrying it home

[innocentvillager]

1627 im glad someone noticed the wifomy anti associatives I put down

[innocentvillager]

Thanks for mod Pav

And I finally understand what the story is lmao. I was so confused during the game