Mini Normal 2258 | Bunnies [Postgame]

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Datisi

[innocentvillager]

Im town

[innocentvillager]

Naked votes are not a scumtell.

[innocentvillager]

which is reminding me of the fact how useful it would be to have iv actually play the darn game if he's town

ive been spending too much rl time on this site tbh/am in two games at once so i didn't sign up with the intention of tryharding/being thread obsessive this game (sorry), i just thought the plist looked fun

im not going to bitch and scream if im eliminated this game. unless for some reason i do get into obvtown territory but i don't think i will this game. also i wont just get autoyeeted in future scumgames for low activity which is a huge plus because as everyone here knows innocentvillager hates playing scum

[innocentvillager]

Also I'm not really caught up nor do I do intend to fully catchup really but I think calling my naked vote bad for the sake of it being a naked vote by itself is bad but I don't have any opinion on who's scummy for that

[innocentvillager]

It's not just the nakedness of the vote, it was the timing of it. It was coming just as the RVS Speedwagon on Datisi was winding down and it looked like scum being late to the party but still wanting to go along with the popular wagon even though Datisi was starting to accrue townpings/reads by the time it was made.

Okay cool I saw a wagon on Datisi and I joined because it's fun to push him :3

IV, how do you feel about Laplacian :3

meh

[innocentvillager]

Well it was a Wednesday and I had just been around two months out of my last relationship and my friends thought it would do me good to get out there again.

They set me up with this somewhat cute guy for a blind date; he drove a custom GTR and took me to dinner in this cute little Italian place on south side of Long Island. He ordered a bottle of white wine and veal milanese; I had squid ink linguine with seafood. We talked about our favorite vacation spots; he said he enjoyed hiking through mountains and jungles in South America and meeting people and enjoying different cultures and traditions. Afterwards we took a long walk on the beach and listened to the ocean waves, I pointed out various stars in the sky and I'm not sure he was particularly paying attention.

woah that was me wild

[innocentvillager]

lmao sorry that came off weirder than funny

[innocentvillager]

House is town

[innocentvillager]

i am going to be a bit selfish because i'd like to believe this might help me read this game

Spoiler: do not open if your name isn't vp baltar

The first prototype of this start was used in a Mini Normal and that game ended in a town win!!

Can I get a link to this game?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85345

I opened this

[innocentvillager]

House, what is your thought on IV?

I'm naturally wary of old guard.

I'm not even gonna pretend to have a read on players with older join dates than my own this early on d1.

... except Titus. I'll call her town on page 1 and marry that read.

I'm naturally wary of old guard.

You're probably considered old guard at this point. But why do you feel that way?

Not really, I was only active for a couple years.

I've only recently (legitimately) returned.

I was here a while under different names evading my indefinite ban, but my play was so stilted trying to avoid being caught out that those games didn't really benefit me much.

I still feel like a rookie, in many respects.

Why are you wary of people you consider old guard though?

Experience typically translates to skilled scum.

Note that you're admitting that your own join date isn't reflective of your experience but generalizing it to other people

Fwiw I'd say I'm in relatively the same boat. I take a lot of hiatuses and have varying levels of motivation for this game.

Even so, my current meta is very polarized and it has historically been easy to tell scum!me apart from town!me. I've been playing scum for a while but it's still very distinguishable from my towngame, you can ask anyone here. I get the sense that you are somewhat of the same way.

If I need to be flipped this game to establish that this is kind of play from me going forward is part of my town meta that's fine. Also, I'm not necessarily that much busier per say, but I just don't want to be devoting boatloads of my time and energy to this game anymore. Some recent games took a lot out of me; I'm experimenting here and trying to strike a balance. If that means I get yeeted more often as town and am considered and even worse player than I already am, I will learn to accept it. Or maybe I'll siteflake again, who knows honestly.

Why wouldn't the mafia just lie on your survey?

completing the survey would be the first thing i would do as scum because i don't believe for a second that someone who has zero prior experience with me can accurately read my alignment based on seeing a personality test report

Also these are both very interesting responses, so credit to Frogster for eliciting them.

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

[innocentvillager]

Datisi - You know what's fucked? The only other time I can remember Datisi easy town reading me early was in 2175 when he was scum. I know this because he talks about this game a lot and I actually just looked it up. Other than that, has seemed townish. Would not yeet D1.

I was scum with Datisi in this game, and you were not in it. Unless you're alt of someone.

[innocentvillager]

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Counterpoint, mine was the towniest answer.

Why?

[innocentvillager]

Or maybe I'll siteflake again, who knows honestly.

I'd rather you didn't. Please let me know if something I'm doing contributes to that consideration.

Thank you, and no, nothing you did! Sorry if I made it seem like it was anything you said, I meant that comment more generally towards people who are scumreading me. I talked a bit about this in previous posts but it's simply my engagement with games on this site in recent times - I have a very thread obsessive playstyle normally (especially as town) and I realized I use a lot of RL time (e.g. work time) to think about and play this game more than I should. I'd like to be able to continue playing mafia because it's a fun game, even if sometimes stressful.

Anyway, I don't think my behavior this game is scum!indicative given that I inned with the intention of playing this way as either alignment, but I can see why familiars immediately went after me for it. That was expected. I don't think I'm going to be an easy read this game otherwise (honestly, I would probably be playing similarly had I rolled scum) so if I need to flipped sooner rather than later, then it is what it is.

[innocentvillager]

I haven't read fully but here are some gth thoughts I had while skimming posts of interest to get me back into this:

Frogster - I like the idea to do the survey and I will give the weird effort here a leantown. Back in my "old guard" days we would do RQS (Random Questioning Stage) sometimes, and a common theme that came up during my games was that people would scumread the person who initially started the RQS because it's "easy content that doesn't actually accomplish anything". I found empirically that, conversely, the people who were starting RQS in that meta were actually more likely to be town, because there were enough people who thought it looked like fluff that scum were afraid to start it. I feel like a similar thing could be happening here; I doubt that scum!Frog does this because they think it will look good, because I don't really know how you could expect to get townread for it. I've personally found that people who do weird, nonconventional thing are more likely to be town (as long as they are clearly not potentially scum!motivated).

RTP - I don't really know who this is or if they have sort sort of history with me (?), but I think the desire to push me hard out of the gate seems genuine in a show-offy way. I doubt many scumplayers would be able to put themselves in the forefront and yell for my elimination. If they were scum, there's no real urgency to push my elimination because I've already sort of stated that I will be more ineffectual than usual this game, which aligns with my historical scum meta. Lean town for now.

Laplacian - RTP asked me to look into this slot a bit ago. I felt very meh about the slot - I realized he got jumped on for some accusation he made and I can see why he got jumped for it but don't feel strongly about what it genuinely means for his alignment.

Aristeia - I've played one game with Aristeia where I was scum and she was town. She sheeped Datisi around the whole day and she's doing the exact same thing here. I'll have more thoughts here later, obviously I don't really want to disclose exactly what I'm looking for.

Datisi - I don't have any thoughts on Datisi's alignment, but he's definitely next on my radar to read if I get some time because I do feel like Datisi gives off genuine hints of towniness if you look closely enough.

skitter - I really don't have any thoughts on skitter. I've concluded I have absolutely no idea how to read her and I doubt I will be able to. I'm very paranoid of this slot in general.

[innocentvillager]

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Counterpoint, mine was the towniest answer.

Why?

Because that is what I would do as scum. Take the survey and just tank the results by lying.

Idk maybe, that feels way too first order though. I think scum could approach this in more ways than just that. Maybe it's because I got here late after he posted the survey, but I don't really feel there's that much benefit for scum to take the survey at all.

[innocentvillager]

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Counterpoint, mine was the towniest answer.

Why?

Because that is what I would do as scum. Take the survey and just tank the results by lying.

Idk maybe, that feels way too first order though. I think scum could approach this in more ways than just that. Maybe it's because I got here late after he posted the survey, but I don't really feel there's that much benefit for scum to take the survey at all.

I already proved it isn't effective by pulling his reads from the last game he used it in.

Posting it is NAI at best imo. It isn't going to lead to actually catching scum, and that's my main problem with it. If he's town, I'd like to dissuade him from pulling this in future games.

That's not how math works - if I claim to have a model that predicts a 50% event with 75% probability and I predict wrong in one instance, that doesn't prove my model is trash.

ok vp's town

Okay, why?

[innocentvillager]

Okay, why?

- idk why scum-him feels the need to meta me here, or why he bothers to do so
- he's trying to de-escalate me/house, no reason to do that as scum (if anything, he should be trying to egg that on)
- i like that he's trying to get over the survey thing

Ehh I'm vaguely convinced by point 1 (maybe VP is being thorough as scum too) but not really the others

I'm surprised you gave very material reasons here tbh - I've never played with scum!Baltar but I have a feeling I'll just like, not get the exact same vibe from him as I do in every single town game I play with him. I'm vaguely getting hints of that here but for me it's not strong enough to constitute any sort of real lean atm, but ofc I haven't read the whole game. But I was more wondering if his recent posting gave you similar tonal vibes that it gave me but it seems that's not the case.

pedit: yeah what House said re: point 2

[innocentvillager]

If I need to be flipped this game to establish that this is kind of play from me going forward is part of my town meta that's fine.

IV do you have an completed game where you were ok with being misflipped as town?

I kind of remember you using this kind of ate in the last game we played together:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13026522

That post was literally a last ditch AtE attempt, while I'm far from being actually eliminated in this game.

I feel like I've mentioned it many times that this is a new playstyle that I am experimenting with upon inning this game (like, I literally /inned into the queue with "oh god because I hate myself" if that doesn't make it clear), and that I shouldn't be read on this alone.

So while there might be some town game of mine out there where I am vaguely okay with being eliminated, it's not really relevant for this game. You'll have to read me based on whatever you see here.

[innocentvillager]

if its not clear; why are you changing your playstyle for this game?

Spoiler: previous things I said

which is reminding me of the fact how useful it would be to have iv actually play the darn game if he's town

ive been spending too much rl time on this site tbh/am in two games at once so i didn't sign up with the intention of tryharding/being thread obsessive this game (sorry), i just thought the plist looked fun

im not going to bitch and scream if im eliminated this game. unless for some reason i do get into obvtown territory but i don't think i will this game. also i wont just get autoyeeted in future scumgames for low activity which is a huge plus because as everyone here knows innocentvillager hates playing scum

House, what is your thought on IV?

I'm naturally wary of old guard.

I'm not even gonna pretend to have a read on players with older join dates than my own this early on d1.

... except Titus. I'll call her town on page 1 and marry that read.

I'm naturally wary of old guard.

You're probably considered old guard at this point. But why do you feel that way?

Not really, I was only active for a couple years.

I've only recently (legitimately) returned.

I was here a while under different names evading my indefinite ban, but my play was so stilted trying to avoid being caught out that those games didn't really benefit me much.

I still feel like a rookie, in many respects.

Why are you wary of people you consider old guard though?

Experience typically translates to skilled scum.

Note that you're admitting that your own join date isn't reflective of your experience but generalizing it to other people

Fwiw I'd say I'm in relatively the same boat. I take a lot of hiatuses and have varying levels of motivation for this game.

Even so, my current meta is very polarized and it has historically been easy to tell scum!me apart from town!me. I've been playing scum for a while but it's still very distinguishable from my towngame, you can ask anyone here. I get the sense that you are somewhat of the same way.

If I need to be flipped this game to establish that this is kind of play from me going forward is part of my town meta that's fine. Also, I'm not necessarily that much busier per say, but I just don't want to be devoting boatloads of my time and energy to this game anymore. Some recent games took a lot out of me; I'm experimenting here and trying to strike a balance. If that means I get yeeted more often as town and am considered and even worse player than I already am, I will learn to accept it. Or maybe I'll siteflake again, who knows honestly.

Why wouldn't the mafia just lie on your survey?

completing the survey would be the first thing i would do as scum because i don't believe for a second that someone who has zero prior experience with me can accurately read my alignment based on seeing a personality test report

Also these are both very interesting responses, so credit to Frogster for eliciting them.

Why do you think these responses are towny? The Datisi one I can maybe maybe see, but definitely not the VP Baltar one.

Or maybe I'll siteflake again, who knows honestly.

I'd rather you didn't. Please let me know if something I'm doing contributes to that consideration.

Thank you, and no, nothing you did! Sorry if I made it seem like it was anything you said, I meant that comment more generally towards people who are scumreading me. I talked a bit about this in previous posts but it's simply my engagement with games on this site in recent times - I have a very thread obsessive playstyle normally (especially as town) and I realized I use a lot of RL time (e.g. work time) to think about and play this game more than I should. I'd like to be able to continue playing mafia because it's a fun game, even if sometimes stressful.

Anyway, I don't think my behavior this game is scum!indicative given that I inned with the intention of playing this way as either alignment, but I can see why familiars immediately went after me for it. That was expected. I don't think I'm going to be an easy read this game otherwise (honestly, I would probably be playing similarly had I rolled scum) so if I need to flipped sooner rather than later, then it is what it is.

IV, did we have a game together where you were scum? I can't remember

no. We've been TvT in 2180, Jungle, and 2207. Actually, you me and Datisi were TvTvT in all 3 of those.

Fun fact, we lost all of those games.

[innocentvillager]

no. We've been TvT in 2180, Jungle, and 2207. Actually, you me and Datisi were TvTvT in all 3 of those.

Fun fact, we lost all of those games.

Oof, jungle hurt. Here is all of us being town and getting redemption.

It's possible!

And while we lost all those games I'd consider the outcomes of those quite unlucky - I think on balance the three of us contributed more + to town than the average player.

[innocentvillager]

I'm still not 100% convinced that House isn't a Wake88 alt, btw.

[innocentvillager]

I haven't read fully but here are some gth thoughts I had while skimming posts of interest to get me back into this:

Frogster -

I like the idea to do the survey and I will give the weird effort here a leantown.

Spoiler:

Back in my "old guard" days we would do RQS (Random Questioning Stage) sometimes, and a common theme that came up during my games was that people would scumread the person who initially started the RQS because it's "easy content that doesn't actually accomplish anything". I found empirically that, conversely, the people who were starting RQS in that meta were actually more likely to be town, because there were enough people who thought it looked like fluff that scum were afraid to start it. I feel like a similar thing could be happening here; I doubt that scum!Frog does this because they think it will look good, because I don't really know how you could expect to get townread for it. I've personally found that people who do weird, nonconventional thing are more likely to be town (as long as they are clearly not potentially scum!motivated).

RTP - I don't really know who this is or if they have sort sort of history with me (?), but I think the desire to push me hard out of the gate seems genuine in a show-offy way. I doubt many scumplayers would be able to put themselves in the forefront and yell for my elimination. If they were scum, there's no real urgency to push my elimination because I've already sort of stated that I will be more ineffectual than usual this game, which aligns with my historical scum meta. Lean town for now.

Laplacian - RTP asked me to look into this slot a bit ago. I felt very meh about the slot - I realized he got jumped on for some accusation he made and I can see why he got jumped for it but don't feel strongly about what it genuinely means for his alignment.

Aristeia - I've played one game with Aristeia where I was scum and she was town. She sheeped Datisi around the whole day and she's doing the exact same thing here. I'll have more thoughts here later, obviously I don't really want to disclose exactly what I'm looking for.

Datisi - I don't have any thoughts on Datisi's alignment, but he's definitely next on my radar to read if I get some time because I do feel like Datisi gives off genuine hints of towniness if you look closely enough.

skitter - I really don't have any thoughts on skitter. I've concluded I have absolutely no idea how to read her and I doubt I will be able to. I'm very paranoid of this slot in general

.

So where are your survey results, innocentvillager?

Does anyone think innocentvillager was trying to pocket me because of his lack of action?

I think you misunderstood me? i like your attempt at getting people to do the survey from a perspective of reading you, not that I was actually going to do your survey

[innocentvillager]

a50 is the only null methinks

rofl mainslipping

OH lmao I did think your posting style was familiar

Okay now it makes sense why you are so into killing me this game

Just a note to any of my familiars, I really think the meta discussion around me is p useless and shouldn’t TR/SR me off of that - just treat me like a different player pretend I have a different username or something this game

I shouldn’t be a polarized slot at this point given how little I’ve been here/I haven’t townspewed at all so I’m not sure where any of that is coming from. I should prolly just be in everyone’s PoE rn but that’s just me atm

I don’t really want to spend the time I have here just talking about me and how my meta is useless here so id like to move on

[innocentvillager]

Hi Frog… I got here first fam

[innocentvillager]

That isn’t even a case

I explicitly said it was thoughts that came to mind

[innocentvillager]

You know when I say stuff like that as scum some of it is actually true? I have reasons to be paranoid of you that I can’t talk about rn

[innocentvillager]

What is your problem? I just checked in and you literally dropped that post after me

And even if I didn’t why does the timing matter?

[innocentvillager]

iv why are you paranoid of me again?

pedit i am massively confused
have you even played with scum-me anywhere?

Probably

[innocentvillager]

Hi Frog… I got here first fam

Lmao the web of lies. I'm going back now to fetch the posts so everyone can see u trying to cover ur butt.

How is that a lie? Wtf?

[innocentvillager]

Btw frogster is town, no sane scum pushes me the way he’s pushing me

[innocentvillager]

skitter do you feel that you are easy to read?

[innocentvillager]

Okay knowing RTP is koba helps and doesn’t help - they’re prolly not as town as I thought they were but i still think they’re townish idk. I don’t trust their D1 read accuracy that much but I think they will eventually converge on better and better reads.

Koba if you want to explain Datisi, Out, skitter I would certainly be open to hearing it, but “energies” is too vague for me to sheep, especially you have me in your solve

[innocentvillager]

Hi, due to RL stuffs for the next unspecified period of time I am doing a self imposed posting/reading posting ban outside of the hours of 8am - 4pm EST on weekdays, and after 10pm on Sun - Thurs. I need to start keeping myself more accountable - sorry for any inconvenience this causes

[innocentvillager]

*I won’t be on during these specified times

[innocentvillager]

Alright day one of pure MS productivity ban

tl;dr :

Don't give a shit.

VOTE: Frogsterking

Can't say you weren't warned.

Hardclaim Masons with innocentvillager

Softed on page 1 & my reads list (same green color code for me and iv, different code for other hard townreads). Interactions between us show familiarity when I've never been in a game with them. They call me town but don't justify it, unlike their other townreads.

iv didn't want me to out on d1 and one of our earlier public interactions was him trying to discourage me from it when I mentioned in Mason chat that it would suck to out early.

Your chainsaw came back to bite you in the ass. Lap & Frog are scum together.

Yes, this is true. I told him not to claim and I'm not too happy about his decision to out both of us here, but I have been pretty detached from this game so I've been trusting him to lead it anyway. I personally preferred a solo Mason claim if I was really in that much danger later on but he mentioned he thinks it's easier and more believable to just cement us both as town here.

As far as the Laplacian elimination goes, I think I'm mostly okay with this? His ISO is whatever and doesn't seem like he's going to be more readable. There's part of me that worries about "there's too little resistance for Lap to be scum", but Lap was under so much pressure from the get-go that I could see scum turbobussing their deadweight partner that flaked and doing some sort of "damage control". Idk tbh - I certainly don't feel strong enough to stop this anyway

[innocentvillager]

I think it will be interesting to see who mafia nightkills in the next couple days - if they decide House and I are worth killing over trying to hunt more useful PRs, that might be useful information.

[innocentvillager]

I'm definitely townreading House for the mason claim, I think it's a really crazy play to make as a pocket

VOTE: VP Baltar

I think RTP being the kill over me and House strongly suggests either me/VP are scum given that we were both in their solve. It's too wifomy of a kill if both me and VP are town and I really don't see why scum wouldn't just let koba deathtunnel town!VP

[innocentvillager]

Hi sorry guys - this game has been moving rly fast and I haven’t put much time here

I have information that Something Smart is probably scum, I would maybe be like 95% on it

VOTE: Something Smart

[innocentvillager]

Im not sure if I should just claim or not but I’m willing to

[innocentvillager]

If we get a few more yeses I will claim

[innocentvillager]

To be clear House is the vigilante right, If I’m seeing this correctly

[innocentvillager]

Okay - I’m a town even nights Gunsmith. I Checked Something Smart last night and he did have a gun in flavor

[innocentvillager]

wait what

[innocentvillager]

Um

[innocentvillager]

I mean he claimed RIGHT before I did but I was kind of softing it before so…

[innocentvillager]

Okay well fuck UNVOTE: Something Smart I guess if there’s no ccs then SS is actually clear

I was pretty sure I had a red check there for a second

[innocentvillager]

Damn not only was my play negative utility but so was my role :/

[innocentvillager]

Okay well fuck UNVOTE: Something Smart I guess if there’s no ccs then SS is actually clear

I was pretty sure I had a red check there for a second

I gambited to save your ass on d1.

Why did you believe I suddenly turned into Honest Abe?

?

[innocentvillager]

You softed the vig and claimed it right? And no one cc’d you so I figured you were the vig

Are you saying I shouldn’t trust like any claim you make like ever?

[innocentvillager]

Okay well sorry for believing your claim when I townread you because you made one fakeclaim earlier I guess…? I’m not really sure what you wanted from me

[innocentvillager]

If math is pushing house my stance is still that House is pretty much never scum here

[innocentvillager]

Although I did think SS was like 95% scum so who fucking knows lmao

[innocentvillager]

Sorry this game is moving really fast for how much I wanted to put into this - won’t be rereading much

Im pretty sold on House town. I’ve never ever in my MS career seen someone with a polarized meta play this far out of scumrange and constantly yell about their polarized meta - as that kind of player myself it’s just too relatable as town and not something I’m capable of on this level as scum.

Can someone summarize for me the scenario where SS is scum? What would need to be true for SS to be scum? Is it just that mafia killed OutWorld and VP walked into scum, so SS panic claimed vig in a flash of brilliance when he saw I was softing GS? If so, I mean I guess it’s possible for someone with that level of mech ability, but still seems less likely than just taking his claim at face value.

[innocentvillager]

How do we know that VP visited Datisi?

[innocentvillager]

Thanks. I’ll try to more towards this as I get back into it. Can i ask why im mostly accepted as town? Just curious

If it’s consensus then whatever but if it’s specific people driving the read I almost wonder if it’s a little tmi?

[innocentvillager]

I totally expected to just be viewed as a LHF this game and get PoE’d into the sun, so it’s curious to me why that reversed on me the moment I claimed I guess

[innocentvillager]

Okay interesting. I’ll be thjnk about it a bit more

[innocentvillager]

Holy f, what did I miss

@Frogster, please calm down, this is a game. I don't need to be caught up to know 3503 especially is really out of line.

Anyway, I'm not really sure where to start catching up because I'm definitely not reading everything. I'll start with Frogster's suggestion to start skimming at 3339

[innocentvillager]

Does anyone know Frogster from past games/is he capable of behavior like this as scum?

[innocentvillager]

Like without reading I just find it very difficult to believe that anyone would post Frog's string of posts as scum, but it's also difficult to see it coming from town, so I'm wondering if it's just a personality thing

[innocentvillager]

READ AT 3339 AND WATCH HOW THEY RESPOND TO MY PUSH, THEN READ MY ISO UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND THE GAME STATE; I KNOW I SOUND CRAZY, PLEASE GIVE ME A CHANCE! IT'S A WEIRD GAME.

I will get to this today or tmr, I promise to at least skim from 3339 to now. Regardless of your alignment I respect the effort you put in. I will say before reading that you look a little emotionally tunnelled/confbiased to me but I will keep an open mind

[innocentvillager]

Math has a vig shot right so can we just No Lim here?

[innocentvillager]

Im very detached from this game rn sorry

I am honestly just down to sheep the other clear at this point, I just don’t really have the time to wade through all these pages

[innocentvillager]

I would be really surprised if House was scum still, and it seems like Math is basically confirmed town. I'm willing to just sheep his opinion since he's actually been playing the game - I almost certainly die tomorrow anyway.

Personally I don't really have strong opinions on Datisi/Andres/Aristeia atm. From what I've skimmed they all seem moderately townie by tone but nothing I feel is straight up outside of scumrange. Whoever scum is has been playing well. If I had to guess it'd be Datisi > Andres > Ari >>> House > Math, but that's a guess with less information than you all have.

In the back of my head something about the insistence of Ari's interactions with me feels like she's genuinely sorting me and I haven't really had any interaction with Andres or Datisi. It feels like she's the one playing the game and aggressively pushing it along which seems similar to her towngame but it's possible she's just good at faking it too. Andres hasn't rolled scum like ever I think (?) and I kind of doubt he's suddenly able to emulate town!him this well tonally but it seems he's been flakish this game too so idk tbh. Datisi I thought I knew how to read but I think I might've been misreading him lately which I don't want to talk about, I also just don't get any alignment indicative vibes from his posts.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Aristeia

[innocentvillager]

UNVOTE: Aristeia My plan for today hasn't changed

thats frogster original iv case

This case on me was pretty insane, do you actually agree with it?

[innocentvillager]

Uh wtf?

No result on Aristeia

Do I actually have to do something now

[innocentvillager]

I just realized something

it makes 0 sense for iv to investigate me

he had his vote parked on me at mylo with mathblade for a whole day

if im town and hes town, i should be quickhammered from his pov unless mathblade is scum

he clearly doesnt think mathblade is scum

so why would iv town even investigate someone who from his pov should be locked scum ?

it literally makes 0 sense he shouldve targetted either datisi or andres to look for potential partner.

good shit

iv get in here and start doing things

Hmm this is a good point, it's possible I should've picked differently based on that? I didn't really think about it that far since I thought I was dying. But it probably didn't end up mattering anyway

I mean actually would Datisi/Andres scumteam really have quickhammered for sure tho? I remember when I was scum with Datisi once, he was super paranoid of Vengeful and literally refused to quickhammer until the other townie crossed

[innocentvillager]

Also it was 6 left right there's chance of vig still?

[innocentvillager]

I don't really think MathBlade is scum although I could be wrong if he's just playing strong deepwolf trying to lim Ari, and the mech seems to support that. So it's likely Ari is scum here based on her own argument, although I still have some pretty big doubts that Datisi/Andres would actually quickhammer. I do feel like they would've figured out a way to move faster to kill town!Ari though

pedit: isn't Math a backup vigilante of some sort? Or maybe there's another vigilante in the game?

And sure Datisi could be scum but you could be scum too so I'm not sure why you think my check on you is so weird?

[innocentvillager]

I don't have that many other thoughts right now, I haven't really been keeping up with the game aside from big events

I sheeped MathBlade because I thought he was basically clear from mech/consensus

I'll maybe try to effort more that we're in lylo and the game depends on me but I'm just so far behind at this point. And my wim is just not high for this/life is getting busier lately. I don't know if playing more is going to be feasible at the future I feel like people are just getting upset at me for being LHF/nonparticipatory.

[innocentvillager]

Sorry I really don’t have time for this today or tomorrow. Maybe Saturday a little bit.

Aristeia why are you voting me again? Sorry if you have already, Can you quote the reasons again? If you are town we are about to lose but I’m sure you know that and I don’t feel that I have any right to tell you to unvote at this point

[innocentvillager]

I literally just checked in for the first time today, any timing thing is a coincidence. I was busy all day today and I wouldn’t lie about that as either alignment

[innocentvillager]

Alright no quickhammer, makes it easy I guess VOTE: Aristeia

[innocentvillager]

i lied i spent the day sleeping and working on a project i'm getting sick of by now

I don't really think MathBlade is scum although I could be wrong if he's just playing strong deepwolf trying to lim Ari,

and the mech seems to support that

. So it's likely Ari is scum here based on her own argument, although I still have some pretty big doubts that Datisi/Andres would actually quickhammer. I do feel like they would've figured out a way to move faster to kill town!Ari though

what do you mean by the bolded?

Datisi I thought I knew how to read but I think I might've been misreading him lately which I don't want to talk about, I also just don't get any alignment indicative vibes from his posts.

what was this about?

I was going off of others consensus mech specs and I’m just not really concerned about paranoia ing this when he’s been townie by dayplay

Second part I don’t believe I’m allowed to talk about or id be violating site rules

[innocentvillager]

I apologize for how useless I have been this game

As I’ve mentioned before I don’t thjnk meta on me is going to be that useful for this game, like I said I’ve been restricting myself away from this site and trying to balance it better with my RL

Clearly this level of participation was not enough especially with how quickly the game moved so I dont know that mafia is really for me anymore I guess. This is no one’s fault but my own, I’d be upset at my slot too.

[innocentvillager]

What was going on with Baltar’s clears? Sorry just really out of touch with what that means. I was mostly just sheeping others there since I don’t really know much about it.

And oh I see. Yeah that was in reference to that game. I probably thought you were a candidate for scum at that point in time as the PoE narrowed in that game but I only loosely followed along

[innocentvillager]

Okay from your point of view Ari is scum.

So please work from there and who with.

Well I doubt it’s you, you guys got into a massive shitfest ytdy that really seemed way too emotionally personal to be scum theatre.

Leaves Datisi or Andres obviously. I wish I could tell you which one but I don’t have any updated strong opinions about either of their play, I’ll maybe take a closer look this weekend if I can find some time

[innocentvillager]

I really just cannot promise a super substantial catch-up, I’m sorry this has been a really rough week. If that means you need to vote me then I understand

But I’ll at least look for a bit

[innocentvillager]

Ditto, get some rest Datisi. I don't think I have what would techincally qualify for insomnia but I have had real trouble falling asleep some days and it is not fun.

When you get a chance, can you answer why you think I'm scum over Aristeia here?

[innocentvillager]

I think earlier when I interpreted Aristeia's prodding of me as genuine sorting when no one else was, it was done more for the purpose of potentially setting me up as a later viable mis-elim. She's clearly worked for this and probably hoped that I would just be LHF and unable to catchup all game and kept using "my meta" as a convenient way to push me, which I don't think she has genuine understanding of. I think everything went according to her plan with MathBlade being the biggest obstacle, but has confused him by calling him bad repeatedly with some pretty intense AtE which I wasn't sure what to make of at the time.

pedit: it's funny you quoted that again, I was planning on getting to that at some point but I just haven't had the time

[innocentvillager]

how well is your partner positioned for you to care this little about the game?

lol

I am voting you because you voted for me and the scum didn't quickhammer me.

If you thought I was scum aware of this dynamic, why would I even vote you in the first place instead of just wait to quickhammer you? I was not locked at all into voting you. Also again I know we know Andres/Datisi is not viable anymore, but I've mentioned before that it's not crazy that they didn't quickhammer at the time.

I am voting for you because you are refusing to play this game - I refuse to believe that IV would sign up for a game just not play if he is town, I can see you being unable to get into it if you are scum and disinterested because townies are attacking each other and leaving you largely alone.

I am voting for you because you have not shown any semblance of caring or even pretending to solve through four game days now.

So you have never seen townies take a backseat to a game because of RL/desire to play less? I don't know why I need to keep explaining my approach to this game is different this game. You won't see play like this in my scum or town meta, yet you're conveniently ignoring my scum meta and just saying that I don't play like this as town

The second point just makes it seem like you're policying me and has nothing to do with my alignment. I feel like if I were scum here I would've tried to make it look like I was doing stuff and I think you know that but are just saying this anyway because it's a convenient argument.

[innocentvillager]

I am voting for you because you said you wanted to sheep House - a decision that makes no sense if you are trying to win since House hasn't been right about a single damn thing this entire game.

I said I wanted to sheep Math because I thought he was mech cleared and townie on dayplay. I clearly have no idea what's going on with the mech anymore so I'm kind of just trying to toss that out the window and go by dayplay now.

I think more people should outsource reads to their townreads (which I do a decent amount) and I didn't have time for the game at the point and I was pretty sure I would be dead today so what's even the point. Everytime I post posthumous reads I'm ignored. And I'm not sure why I should have thought he'd been wrong about everything at that point in the game (or even now? but again I'm behind so idk. Also even so I don't think people being wrong about something in a game destroys their whole credibility in that game, this is a common fallacy imo).

I am voting for you because you fake-claimed Mason as an investigative TPR and that makes no sense as a play to me.

I TR'd House and just went along with his roleswap because I felt like it and wanted to see where it went, it felt weird to not go along with it idk. I didn't think it was that likely I would die given how little of a threat I was to any scumteam at that point.

I am voting for you because the scum didn't nightkill you despite you being a claimed TPR and "mechcleaR" whatever the fuck that means.

I am voting for you because the scum shot House - a claimed TPR, probably believing him to be a strong TPR - if they know you are an TPR, they are unlikely to make that kill since House obviously is not a TPR if you are a TPR.

I am voting for you because House wants you dead and said you are likely scum if you survive the night and there's no reason for scum to shoot house if you are town because they are better off leaving house alive to push you today.

Hmm, I guess I can sort of see how the nightkill might point to me? But this also seems like easy wifom. I think you saw me as defeated and thought I would be an easy misexe to the end with this kill, which I guess you might be right about because I just don't have much time this week. And House is very unpredictable as we all know so who knows if he would've followed up on pushing me. Especially if I have to claim "no result" and they know that somehow, it just looks even worse for me

[innocentvillager]

I am voting for you because it makes no sense for there to be a roleblocker that blocked you last night because that would make this game incredibly scumsided - the central TPR is the weakfruit thing- which is entirely useless if the scum have a multi-shot roleblocker.

I am voting for you because I do not want to lose to shitty mech-spec. I want to try to win on dayplay because mechspec can be wrong but dayplay I can at least take responsibility for.

Okay idk enough to try and refute this, you win on this one I guess.

I am voting for you because you conveniently ghosted me last night instead of answering my questions. You did not do the bare minimum of answering questions people have for you, you display no curiosity or solving intent in this thread at all - all of this matches with your scum play where you tend to coast/disappear if you are not under pressure. You re-appearing with some weak AtE right after I vote for you is very convenient in terms of timing.

Has "oh player X popped up right when something interesting happened" really ever reliably caught you scum? I don't think has if you think carefully, I just don't think that's a real thing and I think you're just using this (along with other previously mentioned arguments) to try and reach for me.

I also disliked when you quoted frogster's case during the previous day as evidence in your favor without any sort of desire to look at it. I think that aligns with an approach where you were trying to sway Math that I was scum yesterday instead of actually trying to figure out if I was scum (trying to win a debate rather than discuss an issue genuinely), and I don't feel like you were actually that "confident" in me being scum at that point to completely disregard how absolutely insane that case was.

I am voting for you because your investigation of me makes no sense for you to do. You were voting for me yesterday with Mathblade - which means that from your POV I must be scum or Mathblade must be scum, since you still believe mathblade to be a town-clear, you have no reason to think I am town, hence there is no reason for you to inv me, if you inv datisi or andres, you can pin down my partner exactly. Instead you decided to target me with your inv when from your POV if you are paying attention I should already be a hard-scum player.

I've talked about this already and you are out here repeating the same thing. Idk if you actually addressed it or not but I think you "conveniently" did not. But I'll say it again: I didn't think my existence in the game mattered anymore, I was not interested in playing this game or trying mostly for that reason. I did not have you as confirmed scum yesterday and you trying to push that is weird because if I'm actually scum here faking everything I would be more aware that you are mechnically confscum to me (per your logic, which again I'll say was not true for me because of very possible hesistancy to quickhammer)

[innocentvillager]

1) RTP's initial hero solve on D1 was lapla-iv-vpb. RTP wanted IV dead but was stopped from pushing him by the shot.

2) IV + House fake-claimed mason on D1 - the scum somehow knew this mason claim was fake and did not shoot in the pair of claimed Masons - House is already flipped VT so the only way the scum would know this information N1 and avoid shooting either House or IV is because IV is mafia.

This is a point against me since we know VPB is town now, I'll give you that. Since I know that they were killed anyway, my guesses for why that happened are:

a) Maybe one of you knew Koba's reads change a lot and were threatened by how townie they became after they hard pegged scum!Lap.
b) VPB was probably going to get pushed D2 regardless, so maybe it didn't matter.
c) Maybe they thought Koba was a PR/didn't really care about killing a mason. Or maybe both House and me were really off with our reads/basically ineffectual clears versus Koba who was clearly showing themselves to be a real threat. I know that's not super convincing because Koba did have the wrong solve at the time but idk, maybe you were thinking (a) of some sort.

"the scum somehow knew this mason claim was fake" is a big stretch.

Okay, I think that's everything for now, I've definitely overstayed my time here but I wanted to at least give out something back to this game.

[innocentvillager]

@IV: Who do you think is scum with Ari? And why?

People have been asking me this question a lot and I understand why

I need to think about it, I've still been focused on trying to understand what's going on and why I'm being attacked in a 1v1.

Here are my thoughts off the top of my head:

Datisi and Aristeia clearly have some sort of history. I'm not sure what they look like as scum together/if they're just theatreing everything here while secretly giggling to each other in the back. My guess on how that would manifest is a little bit more theatre between the two but maybe Datisi would get paranoid that I would suspect him to do flamboyant theatre. As for him individually, Datisi has been uncharacteristically passive towards me this game and his stance going from "town by mechclear from SS" to "yeah IV probscum" is kind of ?? but admittedly there might be more context there I'm missing so I'm willing to wait for him to explain. I think I do appreciate that overall he has given some consideration to my RL change this game rather than just treating me like lockscum because I'm not "living up to my standard town meta" so idk.

I still think Andres seems tonally like his town self in the way that he reacts to things with this stubborn indignance that makes him feel uninformed, but I've seen people able to fake it. He is not here that much which might be a scumtell for him in a vacuum because doesn't seem like he's changing up his playstyle like me. Idk it's also possible that he's sort of just making occasional noise to stay relevant in the discussion while he waits for Datisi or Math to lolvote me, actually as I'm typing this maybe it sort of feels that way more than Datisi's ?? flip on me because scum don't need to actually make their vote make sense, they can just wait for another townie to vote and then hammer.

If I had to pick a scum I would go with Andres, but I could see Datisi being scum too, I just don't really know at this point

[innocentvillager]

what are you actually thinking about btw?

Hm, from the last page alone this stood out to me like a genuine question that Aris is asking Datisi and not theatry

[innocentvillager]

Meh, I'm talking myself into "Aris is genuinely trying to pocket town!Datisi and not wasting her time with this theatre when she could be fake arguing with him instead" but that goes back to Datisi might've warned her not to aggressively theatre with him in thread. But idk still seems like genuine conversation.

[innocentvillager]

Now I am starting to wish I had been more engaged from the beginning, sigh. Little too late maybe...

[innocentvillager]

Nah actually idk if mafia is really for me anymore idk I'm kind of just not really into just feeling like crap and apologizing for throwing for town whenever I get on. (it's late and I'm just tiredposting)

[innocentvillager]

Yeah time to sleep, gn.

[innocentvillager]

So can you like give me something more concrete or how you form your reads?

Can you be more specific in what you want from me? Like something that you can use tomorrow/you want me to convince you that Andres is the right choice or something?

[innocentvillager]

Yes, my first priority is defense against someone who I know is scum is pushing against me. I want to win the 1v1 first and foremost since you will be the one making the decision tomorrow ultimately. Did you expect me to not first respond to attacks on me in the little time that I had?

But if that is what you want I am happy to explain anything you found confusing in my posts. You just have to quote and ask. I'll keep rereading some of Datisi vs Andres tomorrow

[innocentvillager]

I don't know if there's like a specific way I form reads. I generally just start with a bunch of random thoughts and spitball it in a stream-of-conscious way. I tend to be someone who rarely gets tunneled on people/rarely has a confident scumread and I tend to come off as "waffly" to a lot of people, but that's more because I'm scared of confbiasing myself into wrong conclusions since I think it's really dangerous to do so. Idk if that helps

[innocentvillager]

I guess it does.

I guess I was hoping for you to look at the game from a “I know Ari is scum” perspective and kinda just spew thoughts.

Is that not what I have been doing for the most part, e.g 5483?

Some more thoughts off my head: Last night I was glazing over the Datisi/Aristeia interactions and felt in my gut that it wasn't really super theatrey/showy. I still feel somewhat similarly right now but I don't know if it's unfakeable anymore; they could just be really good at putting on the sort of subtle distancing to set up Datisi for tomorrow or they're actually just actively choosing to communicate OOG things in thread rather than in the PT because "that's what they'd do if they were unaligned". The question in my mind now is "is Aris trying to pocket Datisi or is she just interacting with him normally in thread for the sake of it" whereas yesterday it was more like "is Aris trying to pocket Datisi or is she trying to distance with him". And I don't even think that a town!Datisi world necessitates that she's overtly trying to pocket Datisi because he might be watching for that kind of behavior. At the very least it looks like ingratiating behavior but I just don't know to what extent their baseline interaction would be for me to know it's on the level of explicit pocketing.

Now I am starting to wish I had been more engaged from the beginning, sigh. Little too late maybe...

Nah actually idk if mafia is really for me anymore idk I'm kind of just not really into just feeling like crap and apologizing for throwing for town whenever I get on. (it's late and I'm just tiredposting)

Somewhat gross to say from a scum who lurker all the way to elo.

This is not a geniune thought - it's a fake emotional appeal.

Well it is a real thought as we both know, you wanna explain why town!me doesn't say this or did you just want to blanket shade me again? Part of the reason I had low wim for this was because I felt like I needed to apologize for my activity or whatever whenever I came on and maybe I kind of was just avoiding that negative energy. Like I said I don't want to keep playing like this in the future, regardless of my alignment.

And fmpov your AtE towards MathBlade was really gross knowing that you're scum now.

Datisi has been uncharacteristically passive towards me this game and his stance going from "town by mechclear from SS" to "yeah IV probscum" is kind of ?? but admittedly there might be more context there I'm missing so I'm willing to wait for him to explain.

i don't think i've been more "passive" at you than in other games - if i'm aware that it takes me a while to read someone right, i'm likely to not expel energy for that early. as for the stance change, what is there to explain? s_s is better at mechanics that i am, he said all of you/math/him have to be town, he was conftown by virtue of being a vig, i had to let it go. but *now*, when you being town would mean there must be some sort of blocking bullshit in play, and s_s isn't alive to help out, it's not so simple anymore.

because like, the only thing you had going for you was your claim and the fact s_s was defending you. but now, mech situation has changed, and also *you have not died*. there is a very simple answer for "why is the claimed power role continuously not dying?" that i'm sure all of koba, baltar, and andres know very well. and in my experience, if you are expecting one nightkill going into yelo, and a different nightkill happens, something is *very* wrong with your worldview, because scum very rarely actually goes for the wifom game. and i was expecting you to die.

Okay, this makes a lot of sense, thanks. Yeah I think we all expected us to die. I will say like I think most people think scum don't make the wifom kill these days, so Ari + 1 might be exploiting that meta to push me here from NKA. Ari is clearly a very capable scum player so I wouldn't be surprised if she was capable of a play like this.

@innocentvillager

And oh I see. Yeah that was in reference to that game. I probably thought you were a candidate for scum at that point in time as the PoE narrowed in that game but I only loosely followed along

what were you thinking about me in this game as compared to me in schadd's game?

i want an answer to this. i know you said you forgot or whatever but retrace your steps and think back to what you were thinking.

Did I say I forgot? I honestly just wasn't really trying to read you much this game. My thought on you was "Datisi is doing normal Datisi things" here. I thought there was a strong chance I got your alignment wrong in schadd game earlier in this game so I think reading you was going to be a headache so I didn't really try. Oh lmao as I'm typing this out I did think you were a lot more active in this game than schadd game at the time, but that really just made me think you were scum coasting in the schadd game rather than giving me any opinion about this game.

Hmm, I guess I can sort of see how the nightkill might point to me? But this also seems like easy wifom. I think you saw me as defeated and thought I would be an easy misexe to the end with this kill, which I guess you might be right about because I just don't have much time this week. And House is very unpredictable as we all know so who knows if he would've followed up on pushing me. Especially if I have to claim "no result" and they know that somehow, it just looks even worse for me

If I know you are town gunsmith, then I know house is bullshitting about being confirmed, hence I would leave him alive and shoot mathblade.

today then house is then not confirmed and a easy misyeet or I get him to keep pushing you and you are an easy misyeet.

In no scenario do I actually shoot house.

There is also a second element in this that has to do with this - everyone thinks House is my "partner" so even if House doesn't help me yeet you and somehow changes his mind - me flipping scum just dooms house!town on day 6 and we still win.

It is completely nonsensical for scum me to kill house because it messes with my win condition both today and tomorrow.

I mean I think on the surface the reasons for you wanting to kill House aren't obvious and that's why you get to just argue wifom angle and put serious doubt into everyone's mind about today. You just need 1 townie to vote me to win, and I don't think you were really expecting resistance from me at all.

To address your points more specifically: how do you know House is bullshitting about being confirmed given you know I'm town? Is the setup necessarily unbalanced if me, Math, and House are all PRs and town? I'm not sure why that would have to be the case at all.

Also House as an easy misyeet is a stretch, I thought he was fairly townie by play earlier in the game before he did the whole fakeclaim to save you. I mean even that is just so ballsy for him and would be out of line with his meta (I believe). I think it's fairly reasonable that you expected the misyeet on me to be easier than the misyeet on a super unpredictable like House, who *might* cause serious problems espefcially if there's any chance his new claim is legit.

The second element you're talking about is plausible and deeper I guess but given that you just brought it up maybe you just thought of that new wifom reason and didn't consider it heavily during the night. And it goes back to the assumption that House is easily yeetable, moreso that me, which again I just don't think is obvious at all.

I've seen all sorts of scum saying things like "I would NEVER kill X, how can you think it points to me" for what seem like plausible reasons, but all sorts of BS can happen. Maybe Andres or Datisi were really adamant about another kill, maybe there are other reasons I can't think of. In my experience it happens a LOT, and it's happening now.

[innocentvillager]

Skimming some recent Andres posts my gut reaction here is that Andres is trying to pocket me/distancing with Aristeia by defending me. I think an easy 1st order thing to do as 2 scums in ELO is to seem as unaligned as possible in stances - case in point Micro 1035 Chain of Command where I was scum with Dwlee. Skitter bought the idea that me/Dwlee just seemed way too out of sync/unaligned in thread and couldn't buy us as a team. And I think it's just a natural instinct for scum in general. There's also just very little cost to this play when at the end of the day, the only that matters for scum!Andres is if Datisi or Math just instavote me.

Andres has also had this like, middling level of activity that has even dropped off as the game has gotten deeper. I've loosely followed along with town!Andres in late a couple times (Newbie 2023, Mini 2169 that Datisi modded) and usually he's a dominant voice at this stage in the game. Maybe he's like me where he's decent about emulating his town tone when scum, but when it comes down to the wire he just can't fake the same amount of solving that town!him does; that's doubly true if he's very rusty as scum having basically never rolled it here (I think).

[innocentvillager]

On Tuesday I go back to my normal hours again so I'll try to do something tomorrow while I still have the long weekend.

Andres can you remind me why you think I'm town? And why you scumread Aris, for that matter, besides not liking her AtE on a personal level (also is that part of the scumread or just something you don't like)?

I feel like you're just stalling because you don't want to rule out the me/Datisi world when you vote Aris. Also I feel like you'd rather wait for Datisi to vote me so you can just hammer me instead of having to make the first move.

[innocentvillager]

Sorry did not get to this today, I’ll try a bit tomorrow. It’s harder than normal to get a good understanding of what is going on between Datisi and Andres since I haven’t really interacted with either of them this game wrt me - I realized that’s sort of a way that I get reads on people I’ve played with before. I would say broadly that Andres’s overall lack of action or solving here at this stage I’m still not loving.

Feel better Aristeia.

[innocentvillager]

Datisi has been uncharacteristically passive towards me this game and his stance going from "town by mechclear from SS" to "yeah IV probscum" is kind of ?? but admittedly there might be more context there I'm missing so I'm willing to wait for him to explain.

i don't think i've been more "passive" at you than in other games - if i'm aware that it takes me a while to read someone right, i'm likely to not expel energy for that early. as for the stance change, what is there to explain? s_s is better at mechanics that i am, he said all of you/math/him have to be town, he was conftown by virtue of being a vig, i had to let it go. but *now*, when you being town would mean there must be some sort of blocking bullshit in play, and s_s isn't alive to help out, it's not so simple anymore.

because like, the only thing you had going for you was your claim and the fact s_s was defending you. but now, mech situation has changed, and also *you have not died*. there is a very simple answer for "why is the claimed power role continuously not dying?" that i'm sure all of koba, baltar, and andres know very well. and in my experience, if you are expecting one nightkill going into yelo, and a different nightkill happens, something is *very* wrong with your worldview, because scum very rarely actually goes for the wifom game. and i was expecting you to die.

Datisi what is your reasoning for voting me again? I also don't recall seeing anything other than this, which was more just "why did your read on me drop a little"

Are you voting me by proxy of thinking Aristeia is town?

[innocentvillager]

As to your question about Aristeia, it’s not only that I find it distasteful, which I do, but that I SR the play. If you’re Town, then trying to bash players endlessly for looking at things a certain way is not how you get them to do the “right thing”. What Aristeia was doing to Mathblade for example seemed designed to get them to question their skills and worldview to the point where they either fail to act completely, or do what they wanted them to do. It’s manipulative in the extreme. I can’t TR it.

I will say, I think Aristeia brings some valid points about you

What are the "valid points" you think Aristeia has over me?

And why don't you think Aristeia's AtE can be just insulted town?

This explanation pings me because I almost feel like that's your first reaction because you KNOW Aristeia is scum. Before I knew Aristeia was scum I was conflicted on her AtE; the average player I might've TR'd for that behavior honestly but I felt paranoid she was very capable of faking it for the reasons you said. But I just find it weird that someone would come to that conclusion solely from that without initially being tunneled on the premise for some other reason (e.g. Math), since it was honestly after I found out she was scum that I saw her posts in that new light

[innocentvillager]

Again idk mech well but a thought I had was that I think it's more likely scum has some sort of roleblocker than Ari is ascetic.

Reason being is, given that I'm alive, scum probably KNEW that I was not going to give a real result, that's why they felt comfortable leaving me very suspiciously alive to 1v1.

[innocentvillager]

This is very obviously IV's scum meta where he doesn't even play the game for multiple days or attempt to solve and the only thing that motivates him to make an effort is the fact that it's elo and he is a viable elim today.

Have I played with you besides that other Gypyx game?

You keep going "meta this", "meta that"

Show me ONE recent scum game where I did this that I'm "obviously in my scum meta"

[innocentvillager]

also the weird dissonance of not even suspecting mathblade after apparently having information that there is a scum blocker in play, and due to the person clearing math having basically announced that he was going to invest that slot the night before

I don't even know what this means and I've abandoned mech I've literally said this

[innocentvillager]

you're an investigative and you're not dead

not only were you not dead last night, you also weren't dead on n1

the person that (1) really shouldn't have died last night (2) said you're scum if you're alive died instead of you last night

you being town means scum has means of making baltar generate a false inno, which is x10 worse than a false guilty

like i'm not about to pretend that i have a rock solid scumcase on you based on day play or whatever, i don't,

due to you literally not even playing this game

, but pretending i don't have reasons for wanting to vote you is wrong

Thank you

I'm not pretending you don't have reasons to vote me from the "mech" or whatever. I've been playing this game like a little bit more today that I think you should have some opinion of my dayplay by now.

pedit: I talked about my Math read and yes I did abandon mech for him. I think he's town here by dayplay.

[innocentvillager]

I think you should have some opinion of my dayplay by now.

pedit: I talked about my Math read and yes I did abandon mech for him. I think he's town here by dayplay.

my only opinion on your dayplay is that the suspicion/conversation with andres feels kinda awkward and makes me think you're distancing lole

where did you talk about math again? i skimmed your iso, i don't see it, other than a generic "math twon by dlayplay"

Okay, what do you find awkward about my Andres interactions? Do you dislike some of my issues with his slot?

I don't think I gave an in-depth read on Math, I just think he's town by gut and dayplay; if he's scum then holy shit I just give up. I don't think scum can emulate the kind of stubborn skepticism and energy that Math gives off.

I was more just referring to the sentiment I expressed earlier that I've abandoned mech but still thought Math was very town by dayplay.

[innocentvillager]

@Aristeia I'm surprised you went through all that and it's interesting to see your take on it (which I believe is genuine) but none of my polarization is a secret, everyone knows my old meta is to be polarized. My original accusation was your statement that I'm "obviously in his scum meta where he doesn't even play the game for multiple days or attempt to solve and the only thing that motivates him to make an effort is the fact that it's elo and he is a viable elim today" - this is the specific claim you made and that was the specific claim I wanted you to back up, which you couldn't do, you just went on a generic deep meta of me.

All of your analysis there is ignoring the fact that I'm changing my playstyle, which I've mentioned many times, and deliberately been allocating a lot less to this game than normal. Part of the reason is literally to solve the exact polarization problem you mention so that I don't have to be super hyperposty as both alignments in order to not get killed - I wanted to play the game without feeling like I'm clinging to the thread constantly.

You keep saying that I was gone D3 because I'm fake conftown and didn't want to rock the boat - If I was scum, being conftown by "False mech" isn't something I could've relied on in ELO given selection bias of still being alive and eventually my "coasting" would be called into serious question. I don't think I would seriously take this approach as scum - I feel like I would've tried to fake some presence in the game down the line, though I guess I could be wrong. The ACTUAL reason is I basically completely stopped caring about the game because I was convinced a) I was dying tomorrow b) I was way behind. I've never been listened to posthumously and I definitely don't see why I would be when I hadn't been caught up at all at that point.

[innocentvillager]

Even on the last day when you are dead wrong

Completely not game related, how was I dead wrong in this game my reads were fine lol. I never townread any of the scum and I only briefly pushed Facebones and Holden before realizing they were likely town. I had Pooky as most likely scum after Nor replaced in. Also, I don't usually push scumreads with conviction, that's super rare from me too.

[innocentvillager]

Why/when did you even go through all my meta in the first place again? Was it just to construct this big meta case on me? I have to say, I appreciate the commitment.

Datisi and Andres both know my meta pretty well, especially Datisi.

[innocentvillager]

gg my thoughts in dead thread

Thanks for the mod catboi

[innocentvillager]

Ftr none of my playstyle change was fake, I truly did intend to play this game with less low activity as either alignment. Just didn’t imagine how difficult it’d be and it extra hard as scum. Hopefully I’ll see you guys around in the future and give it another shot

[innocentvillager]

Excuse you two.

Get a shipper hydra already.

Aritisi?
Dateia?

I wanted to gouge my eyes out everytime they talked to each other, how is this hydra not a thing

[innocentvillager]

(I mean that in a positive way lol)

[innocentvillager]

Ftr none of my playstyle change was fake, I truly did intend to play this game with less low activity as either alignment. Just didn’t imagine how difficult it’d be and it extra hard as scum. Hopefully I’ll see you guys around in the future and give it another shot

you gotta do the "high volume high activity" play as scum first before you dip into the opposite spectrum

It’s less about trying to be less polarized and more on trying to play a style that doesn’t make me want to surround the thread 24/7 and spew thoughts because it can affect my RL when I don’t have proper life/mafia separation.

Koba that’s a good suggestion that I’ve sort of tried but find myself pulling teeth so I just can’t do it consistently and don’t have the wim to fully break through. I can emulate my town meta in bursts if I really try.

But again also I just don’t want to play like how I used to play as either alignment anymore. I think I saw someone say how I can just keep up with the most recent pages and engage off of that without reading the full game. Hopefully people don’t get too pissed at me in the future if I do that

[innocentvillager]

Andres really carried the scumteam this game and I’m sorry you got essentially two deadweight scum partners for your first time, you really held on most teams aren’t like us lol

[innocentvillager]

that was me that suggested that actually haha

if you arent keeping up, looking at recent content and purely seeking for context when looking back is a good way to stay engaged but not read constantly.

and just using the ISO tool when you feel you need to investigate someone more thoroughly.

It’s less about trying to be less polarized and more on trying to play a style that doesn’t make me want to surround the thread 24/7 and spew thoughts because it can affect my RL when I don’t have proper life/mafia separation.

I think having a set time where you are online/post and refusing to post outside of that set time is fine. Strikes a pretty good balance? You can do a post cap per day for yourself where you only do like 5-10 posts per day and refuse to do more.

Gotcha, yeah I'm gonna give this another try at some point with all this in mind. "Catching up" is just always a slog that makes me not want to sign in and compounds the issue, so this approach definitely appeals to me. Hopefully I'll roll town at first too which will make it a bit easier. Thanks guys!

[innocentvillager]

thanks Datisi! i wish we roll red together sometime too!