Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[Nero Cain]

Nero Cain is here to vote scum but then not get listened to

[Nero Cain]

Why is it funny that the doctor isn't depressed or full of anxiety? Does she think the doctor is lying?

[Nero Cain]

ive been pretty busy today

Busy with maf plans so soon?

VOTE: 0verki11

this is dumb, back on hockey

vote:hockeyfan

[Nero Cain]

like 27 is legit scummy. I assume the reason that you feel sorry for him is b/c he's always wagoned but I don't think thats a good reason to stop wagoning him.

[Nero Cain]

tbh this entire interaction doesnt seem AI at all

Am I really the only one that finds this bad?

Stephan had a list of scumreads for ??? reason. DW was pissed b/c he was on it and it was unexplained. It's content. Deciphering wich alignment the content comes from can be tricky but just throwing your hands up and saying that it was meaningless is dumb


and scummy

[Nero Cain]

I mean, he's a gimmick alt so...

[Nero Cain]

Scorps 203 is a bit dumb. It was a meaningless page 1 vote and you calling it out is stupid. There's nothing "bad" about it. It's null. Also complaining about his 157 was whack. It's not all that dissimilar from Andante's 161. I thought this post was overly nitpicky but decent q at the end. No wonder this guy got ran up in our last game.

also I don't tr Hockey for realz 27,28 come from maf not town

why

this is a bad response

both these posts are kinda bad tbh

At first, I was like "yeah I agree with you" but upon further reflection...naw. Even though I think Hockey is scum both alignments will ask why they are being scum read. Maybe you could argue that Stephens isn't the greatest since asking for clarification on why they (Hockey) were being scum read is just...generic and not really "bad" but not great either.

The reads did have reasoning behind them.

but didn't he only explain like one read though? Like I can get behind your reasoning for town reading the slot and I guess you could say that logic dictates that he did have reasoning to call those 5 slots scummy (unless you want to argue that he threw out 5 randos to see who bites) but I only remember him talking about Greeting but Ima reread that convo when I get done catching up.

now, where were you all those times I got ran up for not explaining my scumreads?

I dont think DW was pissed I think he genuinely was curious.

No your list sucks and so you die

sounds kinda angry there.

this was the 2nd post after an OMGUS/Venge vote. Where are you getting that DW was more curious than pissed?

I don’t think anyone should be taking anything AI out of that entire exchange based on the ridiculousness of it all.

I'll dedicate a longer post to this when I'm not as tired but I don't feel like it was really all that "ridiculous". I mean maybe I'm misinterpreting here when you, wave and Hockey say there's nothing AI there to mean its null behavior and you just can't decide what alignment(s) it comes from but its not like its a contentless fluffpost.

[Nero Cain]

There are no red flags from me from fireisredsir so far.

fire

is

red

sir

this has been a contentless fluffpost

[Nero Cain]

The pressure Stephen A Smith is seemingly putting on Dwlee99 seems completely out of place to me.

kinda agree.

scum using hyper-aggression is always a possibility. But I think he just believes that he caught DW and the OMGUS vote was proof.

@stephen

-you think Hockey is scum and are pushing him but why wasn't he in your top 5?

[Nero Cain]

In fairness, there actually is a theory that most replace outs are done by scum but bringing it up is dumb

[Nero Cain]

like it adds 0 to the game and does nothing but light shade the replace ins

[Nero Cain]

I'm trying to make people think about it? I wish I could put thoughts into people's heads but I can't. dope super power though.

[Nero Cain]

I'm not asking anyone to consider it. I literally said it brings nothing to the game b/c it doesn't. It's a dumb post.

should know that even if someone said that somewhere, its so moot and gateway to all sorts of fallacies.

then attack it on the next post yourself

you can't have it both ways. You can't attack me for attacking him while also attacking me for not liking a post that adds nothing to the game.

[Nero Cain]

It's been talked about multiple times in MD. Why is he talking about it in this game? IDK he's just scum that's hiding behind theory talk? maybe but whether or not said theory exists is irrelevant here, it's his motive that matters.

but I thought you were in agrement that his post was bad. So why is it bad that I think his post is bad?

[Nero Cain]

Fast switch between these two posts. I always find fast switches scummy. Town mindset is way more progressive than branching. Branching is what scum mindsets prefer so they can add themself to the discussions and gain others' trust.

everyone is different so its not like town do this and town don't do that, scum do this and scum don't do that but on average I think town are quicker to vote and scum are more hesitant. In my most recent game (the one before this) scum attacked me for moving my vote within 12 hours.

Can we all just appreciate Stephen?

can you brown-nose more?

I don't fully follow 65. I get it, andante said 27 was scummy and some people agreed. you're just going to sheep that as your whole reason for voting hockey? there's a lot more in hockeyfan's ISO than 27 and 155

yes he does

ok, randomly votes T3 in 7

says he's town reading DW in 28

argues with fire about his meta in 39

ask Dante to go into further detail about his scum read on him in 40

reaffirms his town read for DW in 41

50 is blasting overkill for making a slightly useless post and tells DW he's used the being suspected and as DW why surye is scummy.

51 congratulates himself on getting a pagetop

55 defends his 27

56 continues to call overkill scum while sitting on his RVS (could argue that this was a joke but eh)

What exactly is town here? You could argue that all this is null at best but if I'm voting him for 27 why does a bunch of null posts make me want to unvote?

Also, keep in mind that 155 didn't even exist by the time I voted in 64. If you believe that I should have unvoted him for his posting after 155 then ok let's talk about it? It seems like it's mostly asking others about their reads. I mean 412 is a pretty good post but it's also the natural response to Eyes anyway.

but you yourself have this funny half in half out "town" read of him. Why is it not a full town read? If you think I'm scum and voting him but you don't think he's town does that mean you think he's being bussed?

I *want* to believe greeting and hockeyfan are town

its page 18 and he's still sitting on his RVS

[Nero Cain]

wavemode does, sorta kinda

[Nero Cain]

there is no such thing as a certain read without role actions btw

or mafia. scum already knows all the alignments.

Well, no. I get that *andante* said it was scummy. But that doesn't mean I find it scummy (personally I'm leaning town on hockey), and that certainly doesn't mean I like nero sheeping that reasoning

So b/c you don't find it scummy I can't find it scummy? WTF!?! I mean, yeah....there's scum motivation in sheeping but its not like all sheep votes or agreeing with someone else's logic comes from a red alignment. I don't think AD ever went into detail about why 27 was scummy to her but I can tell you why it was scummy to me.

Goddamm, looks like I already found all of t3's partners

im assuming that this line is a joke

I like this, and I agree with reasoning, town pings

it was an RVS vote on p1. Highly doubt it was serious and hockey town reading Fire for that felt forced.

Why do you want only pressure on 1 person to start the game? Doesnt make sense, a wagon shouldn't be formed on page 1 for the most part imo

Like the first time I read it mafia against the formation of wagons and wanting to stay in RVS. I mean maybe he was actually concerned that Dante wanted an early wagon.

cause mine is the 9th vote, not the 8th vote. everyone knows the 8th vote is the suspicious one

Fire said this and then Hockey said

Like 2nd part of the post(no town pings tho), but the first part of it(bolded) is ???, seems a bit awkward to come out and say that(I think Dwelee said this? and i agree with them)

I thought it was an obvious joke and it was pretty lame to throw shade there.

[Nero Cain]

I like this post very much. Maybe I should look into Nero Cain after all?

it was dumb when she said it and it's still dumb when you agreed with it.

VOTE: Andante

Dante is scummy for scum reading Scorp?

It's also an interesting coincidence that I blasted you for not voting and then you vote...

Frozen Angel [1]: HockeyFan
Greeting [1]: Eyes without a face
Stephen A Smith [1]: Greeting
Andante [1]: Scorpious

not voting [3]: 0verki11, Frozen Angel, Andante

Andante [2]: Scorpious, HockeyFan
Greeting [1]: Eyes without a face
wavemode [1]: Greeting

not voting [3]: 0verki11, Frozen Angel, Andante

like all these players being useless with thier vote. With the exception of Andante, I expect there to be multiple scum in this group.

[Nero Cain]

and I do not think clinging onto LHF is a scum trait

I'm Nero Cain and I'll be the IC for newbie 343.

It is a viable scum strategy to go after low and ground fruit and follow the path of least resistance.

[Nero Cain]

it might be b/c I've already seen Eyes response to the pressure on him but I feel like FA's claim that Eye's reads are fabricated is pure nonsense. He's either scum that's doublind down or that that actually believes in that theory.

@Dwlee, in 505, u said eyes+FA could be partnered(presumably cuz of 503?), but why are u big on that being a partnery psot, when the same logic can be applied to u. Eyes TR'D you even after u being a replacement

oof

who are we limming? or like top 2-3 names?

hockey? greeting? frozen angel? eyes?

[Nero Cain]

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

[Nero Cain]

b/c he claimed a pr or?

[Nero Cain]

why would I know you? We played like 2 or 3 games ages ago.

[Nero Cain]

scum are far more likely to claim a PR to get out of an elimination than town unless said town is a pr. Not impossible that we did hit a town pr and I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2

Bad post from nero. Information over analysis. Nero is just saying nothing to progress a read about either of the top two wagons

first was

"yeah this theory exists but is really bad"

and then

"scum claims pr to get out of elimination unless if its actually a town who is pr". It literally translates to "he is likely telling a lie unless if its the truth"

absolutely alarming posting.

If you are going to throw around buzzwords at least use them correctly. The analysis part is "I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2" (yes I know I haven't unvoted which I'm sure you'll call me on. ) There's a scummy player (IMO) that is making a claim that scum could easily do. Which means what exactly? You didn't even react to his claim so you don't get to talk down to someone that did react.

As for the other part. Admitting that a theory exists is like normal? For the life of me, I can't understand why you (and greeting) think it's bad that I'm admitting that something that exists...exists. I called it bad b/c ignoring the whole game and pushing some silly theory 'cause it's bad and scummy. You are currently voting him wich also means that you think he was scum when he posted that. So if he's scum why is it bad that I called him out on it? You're doing this weird thing where you are talking out of both sides of your mouth but then again you probably aren't a town slot.

[Nero Cain]

actually, I that back.

you did react.

what kind of claim was that even honestly. "I'm backup and I wont talk about it"?! Its timing was awful, he is not even under elimination pressure and we still had few days. he didn't even claim his role fully. Its just making no sense, not saying the claim is false, but I just don't get why he did it in such manner at all and I'm certainly not trusting the slot anymore than before.

here you a berating him for claiming. Just why? The first of your post is riding him for claiming but then you go on to say that "its not false" IYO. The only difference between our reactions is that you were already town reading him thus you believe his claim but I don't really understand why you are fussing at him.

I also don't get what "and I'm certainly not trusting the slot anymore than before" means.

[Nero Cain]

It's literally the easiest fake claim anyone can do and it's not even complete.

So you are admitting that if he were scum its an ez to make fake claim but its scummy if I say the same thing?

[Nero Cain]

??? When did I say Dante was scum for scumreading Scorp, my reasons are in 370 and 450.

but

??? Out of all things to SR scorpious for, you choose this?!?!

but 370 says

??? Out of all things to SR scorpious for, you choose this?!?!

So that's how I interpreted it. Scorp has a history of posting contentless fluff posts and it's not hard to go from "this guy keeps posting contentless fluff." to "he must be scum" I mean, your other reasoning is that they weren't posting content for a while and ok sure but really seemed like you mostly suspected her for pushing Scorp. What's your read on him?

the eyes-angel back and forth on p.22 is terrible. Angel being hyper defensive about potentially being suspected for being a replace-in is a bad look.

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I think that’s E-2.

horrible

Greetings just blowing in the wind rn.

And I disagree with Fire that just b/c Greeting is mis-limmed alot doesn't mean they are above suspicion.

also not sure what to do about your half-ass claim

oh ok, FA is fence-sitting on the claim but calls me out for fence sitting. Project much?

but it still doesn't make sense if she was town reading Hockey. Why do you need to "do anything" about the claim?

"Oh yeah this theory works but we shouldn't be using it" is not a great post to be making
Fire comes off pretty towny here as well, the agression towards eyes isn't something I really see scum doing atm

considering that's not even what I said or that Fire isn't being aggressive towards eyes.

Especially with the literal
Lowest hanging fruit on the bottom..

This is just as bad as Adante’s early naked list.

I object to being called LHF. I mean yes, I oft get suspected as town for absolutely ridiculous reasoning but I think I'm a step above a large majority of the playerbase.

[Nero Cain]

saying "oh if he's scum its an ez fakeclaim"

is not that different than me saying that if he were scum he'd (fakeclaim) a pr.

of course, you didn't even call him scum but then who the fuck thinks that he's TOWN fakeclaiming? That's not something town thinks ever

[Nero Cain]

I believe you're trying to omgus me right now with these continuous misrepresentations. and this build-up to it is screaming fake as well.

im not misrepping you lol

[Nero Cain]

nothing I said to eye was even about me

bullshit, you were all over his case b/c he believes in a dumbass theory

[Nero Cain]

I said I find backup the easiest possible fake claim for scum

so exactly how is that different than me saying that if he were scum he'd claim pr?

[Nero Cain]

for someone supposedly not being defensive, there's alot of "me"s

[Nero Cain]

Also, note that Angel isn't commenting on her doublespeak of calling Eyes scum while simultaneously calling me out for calling Eyes 413 bad.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Frozen Angel

call it an OMGUS if it makes you feel better but this is a scum slot

[Nero Cain]

You never gave an actual read on the slot that I can follow.

Why would my read change just b/c he claimed backup? I've been calling him scum all day so you are 100% lying when you say that I never gave a read.

mine is a clear analysis. yours is a clear distancing.

no yours isn't lol

quick q. a player claims a pr on d1. Do you vote them out?

[Nero Cain]

so It was about how he mentioned me and no one else.

YOU ARE ADMITTING YOU WERE BEING DEFENSIVE

[Nero Cain]

a 15' join date doesn't think backup is a pr claim. jesus

[Nero Cain]

They claimed backup not a pr.

backup becomes the first pr to die... so yes backup is a pr claim

thats for a UB. but he could be a backup to a specific role

[Nero Cain]

Hockey doesn't come off as goofy, WTF is this nonsense?

[Nero Cain]

Its just blatantly clear by the way he reacted to hockey claim and the way he reacted to me calling it out.

you can go through my games if you wish but having 2nd thoughts about eliminating a PR is consistent but that's exactly why scum do claim prs so *shrug*

[Nero Cain]

FA calling Hockey goofy makes me think of how scum Jeff was calling Enchant funny in Polish Rap

[Nero Cain]

Your examples are stupid and that's not "goofy" behavior. He's giving out content and playing the game.

goofy my ass

[Nero Cain]

Wait...what are you claiming is "goofy"? is it "towny" and you are just not using that word?

[Nero Cain]

he was @ L-2 when he was claimed so he was past halfway.

So you are calling him inexperienced and just using the term "goofy"?

[Nero Cain]

ok fine, what does that have to do with anything?

[Nero Cain]

I coulda swore you town read him at some point :/

[Nero Cain]

Why am I not?

[Nero Cain]

DW town reads me and I didn't ask him.

Did you ask anyones thats town reading you?

Umalaut is light calling me scum by asking why I'm being town read. im making him put his $$$ where his mouth is.

[Nero Cain]

I mean why can't I ask why Umalaut isn't town reading me?

[Nero Cain]

you're deflecting his question from andante

lol

nothing is preventing AD from answering Umalaut.

[Nero Cain]

I don't always ask others why they are town reading me.

Why didn't you ask DW?

[Nero Cain]

Do you often ask why other slots are town reading you?

I mean obviously, when a scummy slot is town reading me I've been known to ask but usually I don't and I really don't think most players do. Like that backtrack so you don't look like a hypocrite.

[Nero Cain]

Do you often ask why other slots are town reading you?

I mean obviously, when a scummy slot is town reading me I've been known to ask but usually I don't and I really don't think most players do. Like that backtrack so you don't look like a hypocrite.

You never gave any sort of read on andante actually now that I'm ISOing you.

Is there a reason that you didn't feel you need to comment on any of her posts or express your read on her?

and if she is null, how would she town reading you with no reason feel alright in your head?

true though in 531 I did say "

With the

exception of Andante

, I expect there to be multiple scum in this group.

I just don't play like that. I hunt for scum. If I find the scum then everyone else is town. I don't usually ask why others are town reading me and I don't think most other players ask and this line of questioning seems asinine to me.

and then things like calling me a hypocrite for not questioning dwlee

you know how on tv when a politician gets asked a hard q and their reply is "good question" its a stall and you know they are full of shit.

he doesn't even know what was my read on hockey when questioning it.

Coulda gotten you mixed up with someone else. I coulda swore you were town reading him hence the reason you weren't voting there. But I think having a null read there is kinda a cop out.

[Nero Cain]

also, you lied and said I never gave a read on Hockey so are you are in the same boat as me, hun.

[Nero Cain]

the vast majority of town, including myself, will think twice about voting a claimed pr hence "I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2" And it's why scum fakeclaim prs early game anyways.

Ofc you are claiming that town you will recklessly plow through a pr claim from a "scummy" player which I highly doubt you are telling the truth about b/c its bad town play. You are even going so far as to claim a backup isn't a pr. Which isn't true unless that's like a slip that he isn't actually a backup.

You also have a super convenient null read on him. So if he were flipped today then regardless of his flip you aren't connected. But then I think you said he's hard to read b/c he's "goofy" Hows that fence feel, Angel?

What I said and my stance is perfectly fine and valid.

[Nero Cain]

i mean im voting angel now

[Nero Cain]

dude, its a backup claim. There's nothing to analyis. its all WIFOM

[Nero Cain]

I find backup the easiest possible fake claim for scum

[Nero Cain]

idk. did you want to?

[Nero Cain]

explaining my entire read on him

you have a "null" read which isn't even a read.

fence sitting on a backup claim is so easy to do. Is he scum for claiming backup "I dont know" choose a side or shut up.

He literally threw the account under suspicious by first saying "Scum more likely claim like this"

Its not like I was town reading the guy and then I suddenly starting pushing him when he claimed pr. Its not different than you saying that backup would be easy to fakeclaim as scum while continuing to fencesit on him.

then gave himself an out by saying "but town does it too, lets eliminate it in future days"

I highly doubt that town you ever stops and thinks twice about voting a claimed PR. This is how I know you are scum here. Also, you won't even commit to a stance on him.

ofc you have that really bad fake lie that a backup isn't a pr.

He would not ever react like that to both eye theory and hockey claim the way he did if he was town and he would not act like he scum reads me the way he is doing it right now

you don't know me. You can't tell me what I will and won't do. This is fake.

VOTE: Frozen Angel

call it an OMGUS if it makes you feel better but this is a scum slot

Why?

ISO me

Really? I haven't seen scum fakeclaiming a PR early game like... ever. In fact, I'd say I haven't seen a lot of scum fakeclaiming PRs at all.

This is a pretty well known fact and maybe its more apparent to me b/c I've been here a played more than you have. Do you really think I'm lying about this? I guess you should get a little leeway since you've only been here half a year and you've only played in a few newbies and opens but I'm not the biggest fan of you defending Angel by saying that you haven't seen this.

Please clarify if you think HockeyFan is fakeclaiming and if so then where does this leave you voting Frozen Angel instead.

That's the point. I don't know if he's fakeclaiming or not. Angel doesn't know if he's fakeclaiming or not and refuses to take a stance on him.

Angel is just scum regardless of his alignment.

He never ever ever expressed any sort of read on my slot beside his vote, which was a direct reaction to me calling him out on it.

actually...in 531 I said scum in likely to be in HockeyFan, Eyes without a face , Greeting, Scorpious, 0verki11, Frozen Angel

and then when AD was asking who to vote I said

who are we limming? or like top 2-3 names?

hockey? greeting? frozen angel? eyes?

"we did exact similar things"

I mean, they are close enough. I said that if he was scum he'd likely claim pr but that we should think about not voting out a claimed pr which is like decent-good town play. I mean what you said, that backup is ez to claim as scum, and berating him for claiming isn't fundamentally any different than what I said, It's just using alot more words and you are claiming that it's analysis which it really isn't. You are visibly upset that he potentially claimed his way out of elimination today and I could easily see scum you mad that he's no longer today's limbait.

dodges of the most attention wagons

I mean, I took a stance on Hockey and you didn't so who is really the one avoiding?

I'm pretty sure umlaut is town

I wouldn't go that far but agree that Scorps vote is dumb. He just repped in and hasn't finished catching up though I would like him to talk about how he was agreeing with me on Hockey and then agreeing with YOU about my Hockey reads and that just seems...idk contradictory.

obviously, you like him b/c he's agreeing with you.

but Scorp voting there when we should be consolidating on hockey, angel or eyes is pretty dumb.

[Nero Cain]

I love the way you two are totally twisting my words here…

they aren't lol

No, its not good gameplay to vote a PR

What are your thoughts on Angel claiming that you aren't a PR and that I'm "scummy" for thinking twice about voting you? Do you find her null read on you believable?

[Nero Cain]

@ Fire

it's time for you to explain to me why Angel is town b/c I just don't see it. Or do you even town read her?

[Nero Cain]

he never directed shit at you Angel. You got all up in his grill b/c you are tilted scum.

[Nero Cain]

you don't know me. You can't tell me what I will and won't do. This is fake.

also, what do you mean I don't know you. Didn't we have like crap tone of games with each other years ago?

I like I can just remember 3 games we played together right now and at least one other when I was moderating a game you were playing and my memory is literally terrible

like what are you even trying to say here? that we never played before with each other?

I'm sure that we played together although I don't really remember and I know I was in that game that Panzer ruined but all those were years ago and you are saying that you don't have a good memory but you know exactly how I play? Why do you feel like those 3 games from years ago are better indication of my play than my more recent games?

[Nero Cain]

I've explained why I'm scum reading you ad nasuem. But nothing has been "inconsistent" and you are literally making up shit. I also first expressed suspicion on you in 531, 533 which is b4 711 but the fake push on me really convinced me that you were scum.

not dodging shit.

[Nero Cain]

He would not ever react like that to both eye theory and hockey claim the way he did if he was town and he would not act like he scum reads me the way he is doing it right now

stop pretending like you don't know what you are posting.

[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

you would react to that backup claim the way you did if you had any intention of solving the slot

how do you "solve" a slot without eliminating it or figuring out a setup? You don't. The most you can do is give a read on the slot which you aren't even really doing anyways. You haven't even decided if he's fakeclaiming or not and just straddling the fence with "ummm its such an ez claim to make as scum."

This is a mini normal which means there will only be a certain number of town prs (and yes both backup and UB are prs) so we can easily figure out if he's lying or not as more claims become available. Stop pretending like you don't know how to play mafia.

[Nero Cain]

Well yes. He's either town that feels like it's in towns best interest to not out information or he's scum that won't clarify b/c backup is a fakeclaim.

[Nero Cain]

I gave a read on the slot based on it's content and progression in day and explained it in detail multiple times. responding to your questions even. I even gave a read list and stated where I put him in it like in last page.

yes, you had a "null" read or a town read. I'm not really sure what it is with all these changes. Like at first I thought you were straight up town reading him and then you informed me that it was a "null" read which is really lame I feel and just in the past page its a town "lean". Or maybe it was always a town lean and then I misinterpreted that as a town read and you said it was a null read to try to make it look like I'm not paying attention to this game.

I never sat on fence with how the claim was done either. I explained how I find it consistent with his gameplay style that he claimed like that not even realizing how his claiming was useless there.

I think having a null read on the slot was fence-sitting. Him being close to elimination and then claiming is just normal play that he's going to do regardless of alignment. Claiming he claimed b/c he's "goofy" is pretty silly and it's not analysis. "his claim is consistent with his playstyle" "oh so what's your read?" "null" like its just a whole bunch of nothing.

"you're just distancing from actually giving a read"

his claim is consistent with his goofy playstyle.

He's null. Is not a read.

[Nero Cain]

like all you really did was bash him for claiming which is??? b/c claiming @ L-2 is not abnormal. and explain why his claim could be from scum. I'm responding to the blurb above.

This just makes it really hard for me to consider him mafia while it doesn't make me feel he is town either. It's just putting him in not solvable position for me

this is your initial reaction and it's literally fence-sitting.

All you really did is say that you don't feel like he's scum (b/c of pr claim supposedly) but then said that it doesn't make you FEEL town which sorta contradicts. Then you bashed him and argued why it could be a scum claim. Stop with the holier than thou additude.

[Nero Cain]

I lean on second but have

him on null

and consider it a very hard slot to sort just by his content for this reason.

[Nero Cain]

when ive floated thru and vibed a couple of times, ive felt some really interesting energy between [fire,wave] and then between [frozen,nero]. this gamestate is tense. Im so excited for when we have a couple of flips.

so why are u voting me?

[Nero Cain]

I thought you were town reading a Hockey. You told me it was null. Where's the paradox?

[Nero Cain]

I've never changed my reasoning. I still think you are projecting scum but I ALSO think you are fence-sitting. It's not a change.

you did call him null in 787 but you are being nitpicky and saying null with a town lean which is kinda dumb.

[Nero Cain]

what does "projecting scum" even mean?

projecting scum is when scum call you scum for things they are doing.

You started calling the fence-sitting mirroring my accusations against your slot back as your reasoning when your read on mine got questioned.

I mean you admitted to fence-sitting on his claim. And having a "slight" null town read on the slot is also. I mean, it doesn't even make all that much sense. If you can't see him as scum for claiming backup (wich is what you said!) being so so so worried that he's "master class" scum thats fooling you (lol) I don't see why he's not in your upper echelons of town reads.

None are a progressed read.

lets just argue that its not a progressed read. Why do I have to have one? I mean can't I just scum read scum thats pushing me for shit reasoning like I do it most games?

literally contradicted

lol no

I explicitly explained like 100 times already when questioned what I meant when I analyzed the claim and how its not just simply saying nothing and distancing away from the whole back and forth about the claim

the only real difference is that I was scum reading him before his claim. Saying that his claim is consistent with a goofy playstyle isn't analysis. It's nonsense. If he's town he claimed backup b/c is is a backup (barring a gambit) and if he's scum he's just claiming a fairly safe role.

now correct me if I'm wrong here but didn't you argue that town Nero would have pushed through a PR claim that I was scum reading? Assuming that's not a false memory its just feels like you are randomly saying things to attempt to make me look bad and I don't think that ever comes from a town alignment. If you did make that argument do you have any evidence?

I mean I do feel like you know that he's town but aren't committing to a hard town read there.

[Nero Cain]

At any rate, it's going to take a guilty to vote out scum FA so let's stop being shit with our vote.


VOTE: eyes

[Nero Cain]

Nero & FA

Y'all have played a lot right? Together? Do not get that impression from reading these.

3 games is what she remembers. I figure we have but I can't deff remember in what games we've played. I know I was in a game she modded though but she's been offsite for a while so these games were like years ago.

[Nero Cain]

lol i'm not losing any argument. I'm progressing the game and voting a potential scum slot.

Is eyes a t3 alt? b/c t3 has argued that I'm not being aggressive or some shit for the past 2 games. I was town in both of them so he'll be 0-3.

Eyes was scummy for coming in and ignoring most of the game and talk about some very not accurate theory. It was dumb and I called him on it.

I mean, I do agree with you that it was pretty awful that he started pushing me as soon as you started pushing me.

[Nero Cain]

Eyes is not t3. T3 is taking a 6 month break and also repped out

just saw the same shitty argument and wondered

[Nero Cain]

Angel, the correct town play in a game with a set # of tprs is to let them solve themselves. The 2 minis below us were 4/6 and 3/7 if you think its bad that I had second thoughts about power eliminating a claimed pr then you can fuck right off b/c you don't know how to play but then again I don't think you are town this game.

[Nero Cain]

just iso? but I'm pretty much done for the time being.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Nero Cain

Sure whatever

lets not

[Nero Cain]

I think it goes without saying that me getting to L-1 and now have like 5 votes in the matter of 7 or 8 hours means scum are all over me

[Nero Cain]

in what universe is that more likely to be scum than scorp is

Why can't they both be scum? Especially when Greeting is saying.

I'm more hesitant on Scorpious

[Nero Cain]

I think Greetings vote on me is really really bad

My conclusion is that it's full of indecisiveness, throwing hooks and attempts to catch other players over mere words

this is just words with no examples.

There might be a scum or even two amongst those coloured light green. I'm just unable to spot them yet.

this line also reads very conscientious to me.

Greeting seems way harder to vote than scorp does

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: greeting

[Nero Cain]

but dead scum is dead scum. I'll also spoil all my walls to Angel.

[Nero Cain]

I'm confused then b/c didn't you say that the 1v1 was bs and that I sounded more towny than her (but you have me at null b/c I'm experienced.)

[Nero Cain]

What do you like about it?

[Nero Cain]

exactly what I expect from scum hoping to let a miselim go through without getting blamed for it

how would I not be blamed? If I'm sitting on the wagon and it goes through I'm just as responsible as everyone else on the wagon. Saying what I said doesn't absolve me from responcibility.

comes out badly in back-and-forth with FA

I know that everyone can have wildly different interpretations but there are quite a few that are saying that I look better than FA and I think its wild but you also caught so I'm not sure how you can say this but then again you are just sheeping Frozen's case.

[Nero Cain]

Greeting didn't "suspect" me until you did. Dude's been budding you and following you around. 228 and his stephan vote were bad. I didn't need to ISO him to know his vote was a scum vote.

[Nero Cain]

Nero? Rabbit? Yay or nay?

not sure what I am answering but I do like rabbits.

[Nero Cain]

wavemode
Andante
Dwlee99
the worst
Nero Cain
Umlaut
Scorpious
fireisredsir
Eyes without a face
Frozen Angel
Stephen A Smith
Greeting
HockeyFan

There might be a scum or even two amongst those coloured light green. I'm just unable to spot them yet.

Greeting has opened himself to being willing to vote all but 3 players. If thats not scum keeping his options open then I don't know what is.

[Nero Cain]

also greeting not suspecting you until after I started pushing you makes him scummy because ... ?

you do know that scum will go with whatevers popular, right? Also you are accusing me of that so I don't see how it applies to me but not him.

[Nero Cain]

ok so, I felt like you, scorp, hockey, eyes, overkill and greeting were being useless with your vote. It's scumhunting and not the contentless void you are trying to claim it is. It gave myself a very defined and limited number of slots that I can and wanted to vote and that's not something that scum does. Also, consider that wavemode was scumreadng me at the time (and maybe still is idk)

and you want to know what the real kicker is? You agree with me. You are scum reading scorp now and you were scum reading eyes, are you still?


Greeting has 6 ungreened names he'd vote and then follows up with "oh I could be wrong about these other 4."

But if you think what him and I did are the same then why is mine scummy and his isn't?

[Nero Cain]

"greeting agreeing with me is developing a read but Nero calling bullshit isn't a read"

but also the whole idea that one has to have a previous scum read on a slot to find said slot scummy is junk

[Nero Cain]

Just like butterchurn had confirmation bias over me in Newbie 2086.

scum doesn't have confirmation bias

I can't handle another day of Frozen Angel vs. Nero Cain battle royale. I think Frozen Angel is town, while Nero Cain has been throwing suspicion here and there and nothing really came out of it. I'm definitely okay with eliminating him, but not more than other candidates I mentioned in 1074.

So it's more about your fealty to Fozen than you just hard scum reading me. Buddy her harder lil' scumbag.

[Nero Cain]

I've seen my name a lot!!! andante andante andante!!!!

vote greeting

[Nero Cain]

I mean, I do agree that frozen's (and I guess mine too) back and forth has sorta killed the game but I don't think that's a very good reason to just vote out town and people using it as a reason look mighty bad.

[Nero Cain]

naw, the case or at least my case is that her "reads" are super wide open and only has 3 hard stances and is just buddying Angel and voting me b/c Angel wants it

[Nero Cain]

a smart scum won't go for the typical scum read of everyone else. a smart scum would go for greeting there, who was less talked about, had a momentum going after her. It's so not something to give him credit for.

don't hurt yourself bending over backwards

[Nero Cain]

consistency isn't a town tell lol

other than DW all your town reads are just ppl that agree with you. its super basic.

[Nero Cain]

nah jumping on a wagon right away p much always looks opportunistic and makes the people doing it look worse. if he had voted scorp instead you would have said that he looked scummy for that too, you can't have both

Not gonna lie Nero... there is a point here, like, jumping on the Greeting wagon just looks like self preservation, like "oh? Greeting wagon better than me? yes!" I did notice that though

I have to jump somewhere. And I was pushing a harder wagon than Scorp. I'd get blamed for being opportunistic there too.

[Nero Cain]

Greeting wagon is harder than a scorp wagon?

yes

[Nero Cain]

what changed that vote beside him seeing an opportunity to buddy you?

I like that you are throwing my words back at me by accusing me of buddying Fire when I'm accusing Greeting of buddying you.

533
981

both mention Greeting

you can read my last town game where I got wagoned and I was calling slots that voted me...and they were scum. One doesn't need to have a pre set scum read to call out scum

[Nero Cain]

just tell me who u want dead the most, AD

[Nero Cain]

UNVOTE: Nero does not need to be E-1 at this moment

Why would you even vote me in the first place if you felt FA was being dishonest?

[Nero Cain]

thats b/c your posts kinda suck. I know thats kinda mean but its true and you are only getting your way b/c ppl are tired of listening to you drone on. ofc, there's also opportunistic scum voting me.

[Nero Cain]

If FA is scum. Give her an award. If you can manufacture that much dishonesty so consistently and so often my god.

[Nero Cain]

enjoy that helping of crow

[Nero Cain]

I'ma let ya'll finish posting but Greeting is the hardest wagon ever

[Nero Cain]

u townread greeting?

[Nero Cain]

I mean you said you had a town ping on Greeting after an RVS on overkill and 2 non-sequitur posts. Then you, later on, went on to say that you WANT to believe Greeting is town. There could be more later on but I got tired of looking.

The first is just confusing. Dunno how 6, 57 or 58 are towny and the second is just wishy-washy nonsense and seems to express light suspicion while also maintaining a reason to not vote there.

[Nero Cain]

i mean, no one wants to play with NM.

[Nero Cain]

fireisredsir
Stephen A Smith
Dwlee99
HockeyFan

Greeting

Frozen Angel
Andante
the worst
Umlaut
Nero Cain
Scorpious
Eyes without a face

greeting is like middle of the pack here. not super high but I guess not super low either.

What do ur reads look like now?

[Nero Cain]

eyes is voting greeting not scorp

[Nero Cain]

oh

[Nero Cain]

Wave, why is Angel your lowest town read?

[Nero Cain]

have we all learned nothing from this game? Consistency is a town tell so sayeth Frozen. Never mind the fact the scum are the ones that will try to stay super consistent so they don't get called on being inconsistent.

but it's not like a 09' join date knows anything.

[Nero Cain]

How dare you doubt the word of FA?!?

[Nero Cain]

Hockey are you going to be on for a bit?

[Nero Cain]

Hockey are you going to be on for a bit?

Uh, only here for like 10 mins rn,

will be on for a bit(alot) after around 4pm EST tomorrow, I can be a lot more active from tomorrow to Monday

i just wanted to talk about how you called me and FA's "1v1" bs and then said you wanted to resolve it by voting one of us out. I asked you about it earlier and you didn't respond

[Nero Cain]

then why didn't you vote one of us?

[Nero Cain]

and you said earlier that I looked towny in the interaction but you downgraded me to null b/c I'm "experienced" If I'm scum why not just call me scum? if she's scum are you really that scared to vote her?

[Nero Cain]

you do have short term memory loss *waves hand*

[Nero Cain]

Nero Cain-Jedi master

[Nero Cain]

Just like butterchurn had confirmation bias over me in Newbie 2086.

scum doesn't have confirmation bias

butterchurn wasn't scum in that game, but I don't expect you to be caring about that either.

Reinforcing my commitment to voting out

Nero Cain

.

VOTE: Nero Cain

I mean you're right. I saw the name Butterchurn and my mind blanked and I thought of Polish rap but you were indeed talking about another game.

but your takeaway is "Nero is lying about something verifiable so he must be scum b/c only scum lie."

said not the sith lord

It just feels so...basic and generic.

But I think Nero Cain is a far bigger fish to fry.

big fish in a small pond, thank you

My main issue with Nero Cain currently is that for most of the game he's been planting seeds of suspicion

I may be a Jedi master but I can't put thoughts in anyone's heads. You're basically saying that you don't like my content and dismissing it as not content.

It honestly blows my mind that he even resorted to analysing my half-RVS posts in 1539. That's how weak the case is

look at how dishonest this is. Your half ass RVS posts are not part of my case, I was questioning why Wave was town reading you for those "half ass RVS" post

If he's using it to try to sway wavemode into my miselimination then it is part of my case.

holy shit. I wasn't doing that either.

mith damnit fire.

[Nero Cain]

you aren't even voting Greeting...

[Nero Cain]

ok

[Nero Cain]

TBF, I'm mostly just mocking you but you deff have used "X is consistent thus are town" or less likely to be scum or w/e nomenclature you are using. I think DW is agreeing with the statement that scum try harder to remain consistent so they don't get called out.

[Nero Cain]

vote Greeting, no one that is town

[Nero Cain]

*way

[Nero Cain]

Frozen wants Nero, Frozen gets Nero.

Why does she get what she wants but I don't get what I want?

[Nero Cain]

nope, its me or greeting today

[Nero Cain]

it SHOULD be Greeting today b/c its a scum slot but if it takes my death to finally flip scum I'm relatively ok with that

[Nero Cain]

just vote obvscum Greeting.

its like herding kittens

[Nero Cain]

I think Duck still kinda scumreads Greeting but scumreads me more for ???? reason but he deff said he'd be willing to vote Greeting. DW said he'd hammer and Hockey just said he scum reads him but wants to "wait and see" so the wagon is there just no one seems to be willing to take initiative lol

[Nero Cain]

there's not even a wagon on you and the only other person that thinks you are scum is hockey.

[Nero Cain]

how can you say that? There have been enough people that have expressed voting in me and Greeting. It just depends wich one of us gets to L-1 first

[Nero Cain]

I've broken the FA bot. All she can do is vote me over and over again

[Nero Cain]

I typed in robot fozen angel and some of them are ok looking

Spoiler:

is sorta cool looking but maybe not feminine looking, idk

[Nero Cain]

Spoiler:

do you know how to play the recorder?

[Nero Cain]

Have you read any of my games? Anything recent or are you just relying on 3 games feom tears ago and a game you modded?

but then you've said its not a meta read despite using language that makes it sound like a meta read.

but my MINDSET is that of a scum player. If that's not generic and catchall I don't know what is. Could you please explain what this scum mindset that you claim I have is?

[Nero Cain]

that's kinda deflecty. There's nothing wrong with it I just asked you to explain this scum mindset I supposedly have

[Nero Cain]

just to speed this up. What fire is saying is that scum can't be genuine b/c there's no other scum for her to hunt unless you think there are two scum teams in this game.

[Nero Cain]

Scum can still act genuine

like yes, but they aren't b/c they know whomever they are pushing is town.

[Nero Cain]

He tried to discredit my read on his slot before by asking me how many games I played with him and act like my case is based on meta before as well. How can you not see that?

prob b/c asking a question isn't a discredit.

which leads us to

but then you've said its not a meta read despite using language that makes it sound like a meta read.

I've never and no context ever said this.

When you say things like "Nero doesn't play like that as town" and other similar things (and yes I know you are defending it as calling me a non newbie) it makes/made it sound like it was based on meta. Hence why I asked. You informed me it wasn't. ok, fine. I moved on but you are still stuck there for some reason.

but then you've said its not a meta read despite using language that makes it sound like a meta read

.

but also

if you want actual discredits. You can look at Greeting who is just waving Fire's scum read off by claiming that they are "conf bias". (Also sounds a bit TMIy)

and

If you want to give the slot some credibility for meta you gotta cross reference his behavior in this game with his other games and explain how his pattern of behavior here contradicts his mindset as a scum player

in general

/goes in line with his mindset as a town player

you are also discrediting eyes here and the whole just scum reading me based on "how scum plays in general" while not talking or looking at how

I

play just seems idk...not very thorough. It's like you found something you could push and then just ??? called it a day.

[Nero Cain]

Treat the game like not mafia is in it. I'm hammering anything that hits E-1

so it's a race! I really don't understand why you and AD are willing to vote your townread but it is what it is I guess.

Umlaut and wavemode will prob revote me putting me back at 5. Hopefully, TW votes Greeting tying us @ 5 all.

I don't get why AD keeps voting me and won't vote Greeting.

HockeyFan makes it seem like he'll vote greeting but wants to hold off and burn more clock.

So I really wish you'd just hold off and vote Greeting assuming that TW, Hockeyfan vote there

[Nero Cain]

it's not really a scramble lim when most everyone has committed to voting me or Greeting.

Wave is the only one that said he wouldn't vote Greeting.

AD makes it sound like she'll vote Greeting but keeps voting me.

and TW/DW said they'll vote either/or

[Nero Cain]

Greeting is scum so it can't be an all town wagon on me.

[Nero Cain]

I don't really get y u scum read me

[Nero Cain]

i get it

[Nero Cain]

thats the newest alt

[Nero Cain]

that must be one bad greeting card

[Nero Cain]

^
thats y its a scum flip

[Nero Cain]

Agree on Hockey and Fire and Steve needs to use his words today but I'm confused about Worst. His posting around Greeting was....like he said he'd vote Greeting and then wouldn't for ??? reason and this had this weird "I don't scum read Nero but I'd vote there." stance

[Nero Cain]

the greeting wagoned happened b/c greeting was scummy and bad, had nothing to do with my alignment.

Would you stop voting someone that you were town reading?

[Nero Cain]

y r u voting me, steve?

[Nero Cain]

I wanted to see Nero defend just a little more, It was his seemingly give up post that sold me he was scum.

lmao. I "gave up". Who here thinks I gave up d1? Anyone? get outta here with that bullshit.

[Nero Cain]

?????

you're the one repeating the same thing over and over not me.

[Nero Cain]

I've said the same thing 5 times in a row but it's YOU that's running out of material!

like what?!?

[Nero Cain]

My dilemma: I want to vote Nero

I'm still not understanding WHY you really want to vote me though. You've said that you wanted to placate Angel by voting me, despite having a town read on me. And then when Frozen dies you voted me right after Steve voted me b/c "greeting happened b/c Nero is scum" it's wrong but I'm not sure why that wasn't your first thought. or maybe it was but Steve voting me made you think we aren't partners.

All I can really say is that I didn't kill Angel, as such it was meant to "push me". Steve could still be mafia but the "X is scum b/c Y wanted X dead but now Y is dead thus X is scum!" is sorta the knee-jerk reaction and is exactly why scum does make these wifomy kills. Your other explanations are valid IG. 2005 by Hockey is funny whether he's just joking about you killing Angel or legit thinks you are scum that thinks you broadcasted the reasons for your teams Angel kill.

[Nero Cain]

though I think Fire is mostly right. Why not keep the Nero TvT going? I mean I likely go before her and it seems like most everyone besides me and Hockey were town reading her to some degree. Did scum really feel she was unlimable and had to kill her? I mean it's just all WIFOM but clearly if mafia killed her to make this game more manageable then it points to a less active scum team.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: the worst

[Nero Cain]

As of right now, I'm still sheeping Fire

how can you sheep someone that's not even voting?

[Nero Cain]

that's not a good reason to call me or anyone scum.

[Nero Cain]

Duck Rillettes

Spice Rub:

1 ½ tablespoons kosher salt
2 teaspoons ground black pepper, or more to taste
2 teaspoons dried thyme

Potpourri:

12 cloves garlic
6 (1/4 inch thick) slices fresh ginger
1 orange, zest cut into thin strips
1 bunch fresh thyme, plus more for garnish
3 bay leaves
1 whole duck
2 tablespoons unsalted butter, softened
1 tablespoon brandy (such as Armagnac)
2 teaspoons chopped fresh parsley
1 teaspoon chopped fresh chives
½ teaspoon Dijon mustard
1 pinch cayenne pepper
salt and ground black pepper to taste
½ teaspoon grated orange zest


Step 1
Preheat oven to 250 degrees F (120 degrees C). Line a 9x13 baking dish with 2 pieces of aluminum foil.

Step 2
Stir kosher salt, 2 teaspoons black pepper, and dried thyme together in a bowl. Mix garlic, ginger, orange zest strips, fresh thyme, and bay leaves together in another bowl.

Step 3
Season duck all over, inside and out, with about 2/3 of the kosher salt mixture. Fill duck cavity with garlic mixture.

Step 4
Place duck, breast-side up, into prepared baking dish and season with remaining salt mixture. Wrap duck tightly in aluminum foil.

Step 5
Roast in the preheated oven until meat pulls away from the bones, 5 to 6 hours. Cool duck with its accumulated juices, wrapped in aluminum foil, to room temperature. Chill in the refrigerator for 12 hours or overnight.

Step 6
Pick meat from bones and place in a bowl.

Step 7
Spoon all accumulated juices in the foil into a saucepan and place over medium-high heat. Cook until hot throughout; strain through a fine-mesh strainer into a bowl. Let fat and stock separate; transfer fat from the top to another bowl.

Step 8
Mash duck meat, 3 tablespoons duck fat, 2 tablespoons duck stock, butter, brandy, parsley, chives, Dijon mustard, cayenne pepper, salt, and ground black pepper together in a bowl with a wooden spoon; transfer to a sealable container, press down, and drizzle a little duck fat over the top. Sprinkle thyme leaves, black pepper, and orange zest over the top. Seal the container and refrigerate for the flavors to blend, 1 to 3 days.

[Nero Cain]

I am voting TW whom most refer to as duckling or duck. Hence the duck recipe since I think the day should end with a duck elimination and said feast. I didn't think it was going to be that hard to get.

[Nero Cain]

well at least you reacted this time

[Nero Cain]

ummmm...what?

[Nero Cain]

actually Nero may be too smart for what I'm thinking

[Nero Cain]

I don't think he was saying that I'm not trying this game He was saying that I'm not trying to make allies.

[Nero Cain]

I mean look guys, the wagon on me is absolute junk. It's 2 guys sheeping Angel and the other is claiming that I gave up.

[Nero Cain]

still think Worst is scum but thats not going to happen today.

VOTE: Scorpious

[Nero Cain]

it's right there in the post...

[Nero Cain]

yes, its an OMGUS how scummy of me.

Also, read the room.

[Nero Cain]

lol I didn't even notice that

[Nero Cain]

you mean to tell me that mafias been voting me this whole time?!? Will wonders never cease

[Nero Cain]

nvm, I re read the worsts iso, and at the very very start of d2, it seems like they didnt have a guility on eyes, they were pushing other ppl and voting elsewhere, only AFTER 2098 is when they start pushing eyes?(its also super weird? like "hi hi" then just *vote eyes*, so im intrested about the others players thoughts if this *is* a scum claiming PR)

UNVOTE:
for now

eyes was his first vote of the day so it's believable to me. Although he voted me later which doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Like I could maybe see him not want to out to get eyes dead but I don't really understand why he ever unvotes eyes either. I do agree with Fire though that I don't really see scum Worst trading in his life for Eyes.

[Nero Cain]

intent to hammer

[Nero Cain]

for fucks sake

[Nero Cain]

intent to hammer

why'd you give intent here?

b/c u were claiming a quasi guilty

[Nero Cain]

intent to hammer

why'd you give intent here?

b/c u were claiming a quasi guilty

you didn't just hammer why?

in case anyone had anything they wanted to add before the day ended

[Nero Cain]

i have always wanted to kill nero

rude

[Nero Cain]

I doubt its conf bias. She doesn't even have a reason.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: the worst

[Nero Cain]

can we all just vote TW now?

[Nero Cain]

y is he town?

[Nero Cain]

I'm an even night gunsmith so lets not vote town and TW instead.

[Nero Cain]

so instead of letting scum shoot me you rather vote out the GS and then let the backup die at night. Great plan. Truly a pro-town thought process.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Andante

do you guys really think AD is town?

[Nero Cain]

Nero, tell me why TW.

My scum vibes are tingling. I have a headache and I'm busy later today so I'll go into more detail later but basically I feel like he's just been floating around for most of the game and d1 he went from scum reading Greeting to hopping off Greeting for ???? reason.

[Nero Cain]

also hockeyfan has weird interactions with nero cain

what was weird?

can the people who do not believe nero's claim please take a stance on hockeyfan. are they scum fakeclaiming GS and backup GS together? and why do you believe so

"I'm an even night role, and tonight is an even night. let me live 1 more night!" that just screams JOAT/strongarm

Why would I fakeclaim as town?

[Nero Cain]

hey DW, lets kill AD

[Nero Cain]

will u accept "wanted to eliminate the EN GS so mafia (presumably her team) can shoot the backup"

[Nero Cain]

Spoiler:

[Nero Cain]

Unless if you statistically prove it with a sufficient data on a population/site meta.

wasn't there that peer reviewed scientific paper that proved that those who replace out on mafiascum dot net are 6% more likely to be scum

im pretty sure there have been at least 2 MD topics about it and the general conclusion was that scum replace out more often than town