Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[the worst]

hey frozen, hey everyone, anyone feel like catching me up?

[the worst]

btw, I'm at E-2, so I'll guess I'll claim,

I'm a backup of a role

I'm not gonna out anymore info about it unless I'm forced to

You probably should be voting me fi this is true. I hard claim VT. No big deal if I am the lim if you have a better role than mine.

this interaction looks like two townies

[the worst]

do u think that's scummy from eyes?

[the worst]

why

[the worst]

i think you're very quick to attribute to malice what is clearly attributable to laziness
not really sure what that makes eyes' alignment, but
VOTE: wavemode

[the worst]

wave what are your other reads?

[the worst]

Why do you think laziness is not a good reason for player X to sus player Y

laziness is just a rife part of human nature, lol. town are lazy as often as scum are lazy. it's something that looks bad, which means it's easy to ramble about how it's bad!!!!, but i'm really not convinced that it's any more likely to come from either alignment. scum have a tendency to try and exploit things which look bad rather than things which are actually indicators of a scum mindset. => i think wave is just picking at an easy target.

[the worst]

wave what are your other reads?

in order from most likely to least likely town:

fireisredsir
Stephen A Smith
Dwlee99
HockeyFan
Greeting
Frozen Angel
Andante
the worst
Umlaut
Nero Cain
Scorpious
Eyes without a face

sry i probably asked a kinda useless question since i haven't read up yet; can you talk to me about other enpassioned reads? what else are you seeing in the gamestate? i guess the point i'm making is that like, if we're trying to solve the same puzzle, then your eyes read isn't very useful to me atm. what else is making your mind fire?

[the worst]

Why do you think laziness is not a good reason for player X to sus player Y

laziness is just a rife part of human nature, lol. town are lazy as often as scum are lazy. it's something that looks bad, which means it's easy to ramble about how it's bad!!!!, but i'm really not convinced that it's any more likely to come from either alignment. scum have a tendency to try and exploit things which look bad rather than things which are actually indicators of a scum mindset. => i think wave is just picking at an easy target.

then you should probably find where I ever stated that my problem with eyes is laziness (or that I think he's lazy in the first place)

you either aren't reading what I'm saying or aren't understanding the point I'm trying to make about him

I'm summarising your point for sure but I feel like what youre picking at is aligned with being lazy before being aligned with being malicious? sorry if you don't feel like "lazy" is a fair characterisation but I dont feel like your read on eyes is particularly nuanced

where are u at on Scorpius?

[the worst]

how do you consider what fire and what I am seeing about your push against eyes as meaningfully different? Im genuinely confused and its been a long time since ive felt this confounded trying to have a convo with someone about a pretty routine mafia read lol

why is scorp scum

[the worst]

i feel like half of u are seeing something i haven't seen yet so i might need to reserve judgement til i've gone back & read everythin

[the worst]

it is my first game

pedit: wrong person sry

[the worst]

I'd be happy to share my thoughts on scorp with you. I'm just worried that you'll ignore what I write and instead conclude that what I'm actually trying to say is that scorp is just lazy

that is my modus operandi

UNVOTE: spiritually - will get back to this when ive read up

[the worst]

tomorrow im gonna consider who i am giving too much leeway due to my suspicion of hockey, and where i should be looking if im wrong about him. i think andante could be one of them

I have divined that Hockey is town if that helps at all

[the worst]

Nero I'm hurt. I thought you knew me.

[the worst]

I'm an open book!

[the worst]

Nah fr though id power-yeet every town power role claim as either alignment if it felt right

I just think hockey has a towny vibe

[the worst]

Are we killing Scorp?

[the worst]

I'm not following at all but I'm fine w a nero wagon
VOTE: Nero

[the worst]

I feel like choosing "backup for something!" rather than "universal backup" or just.... like......... cop backup or vt....... is such a deliberate choice?

[the worst]

ya its just such a counterintuitive fakeclaim for d1

[the worst]

when ive floated thru and vibed a couple of times, ive felt some really interesting energy between [fire,wave] and then between [frozen,nero]. this gamestate is tense. Im so excited for when we have a couple of flips.

[the worst]

ya its just such a counterintuitive fakeclaim for d1

Explain why.

The goal of a fakeclaim is to get people to unvote(already successful).

He's also not forced to do any night actions that could reveal it's a fakeclaim via tracker/watcher/follower etc since he's a "backup"

He also can't be caught out as there's no idea what he's backing up.

If he claims universal backup and we have a dead vig he's kind of fucked when he can't make a vig shot happen for example.

That's all fair, I think it's a lot more thought than most scum give fakeclaims when theyre under that much pressure though :p I didn't say it would be a bad fakeclaim. It would be a good fakeclaim for sure. It just doesn't feel intuitive for someone who's under pressure.

[the worst]

Can we fast forward to the bit where everyone realises nero/fa is s/s?

[the worst]

They will be studying my posts for generations to come just you wait

[the worst]

I feel +ve about Umlaut reaching the same decision I did, on both counts

[the worst]

Can we fast forward to the bit where everyone realises nero/fa is s/s?

This claim is so ????, can u expand on this, and please dont say cuz "only scum wall post thier partners"

It was a very deliberately outlandish comment lol

FA's conviction about Nero being scum feels stronger than what I've read on her actual casing of scum!nero which always kinda rings my bussing bell.

Its not a confident read and you probably shouldn't listen to it. But its definitely a situation to be wary of!!

[the worst]

Can we fast forward to the bit where everyone realises nero/fa is s/s?

Haven't read, why is FA scum?

I have no read on FA, except that she wants Nero dead
That doesn't make her scum I'm just being a radical free spirit

[the worst]

If this duck is scum he is tap dancing all over this town

I'm town and I'm tap dancing on the underside of the bathroom faucet. plesse help it's dark and I don't know where I am.

[the worst]

has frozen posted anything alignment indicative? pretend I'm like, a really lazy duck who hasn't read most of the game. or something like that.

[the worst]

imo if anything a lim on Nero would encourage there to be more wallposts

what's your read on nero independent of fa?

[the worst]

VOTE: Scorpious

[the worst]

actually VOTE: Andante

[the worst]

has frozen posted anything alignment indicative? pretend I'm like, a really lazy duck who hasn't read most of the game. or something like that.

you can look at some things I brought up in 1078 and her responses to them if you want. im not super convinced that her making a bad/inconsistent case is alignment indicative, but i think that it's worth looking at since it looks like a lot of people are just giving the benefit of the doubt that she has a good case

this helps a lot, thanks. I feel similarly.

[the worst]

@Andante

Nero Cain [6]:

Frozen Angel, the worst, Stephen A Smith, Greeting, Umlaut, Andante

I townread... FA? For effort mostly kinda a lazy read? Stephen was still weird to me. Everyone else I kinda feel meh about? I mean at least half this wagon has to be town so I'll give you that at least

I'm masons with umlaut

[the worst]

yeah no, nero was town there, I'm sheeping Frozen cause why not?

I think you thinking he's town is a rad reason why not

[the worst]

I'm pretty sure Nero is town here, unsure on Frozen so far

what changed from this andante?

cause Nero was reminding me of a Nero I played with before in a huge game, actually never checked the alignment there lol

what reminded u of that game?

[the worst]

I'm pretty sure Nero is town here, unsure on Frozen so far

what changed from this andante?

cause Nero was reminding me of a Nero I played with before in a huge game, actually never checked the alignment there lol

what reminded u of that game?

only other game I've seen Nero, and the way Nero is, is very memorable tbh

you town read nero because he's nero?

[the worst]

also im pretty sure FA's whole shtick is putting in tons of effort as both alignments and getting townread as scum for it, so y'all better not be townreading solely off that.

her reaction to how bad this wagon is makes me think her being town is more likely though

same, if she's scum without andante/scorp then this is too easy lol

[the worst]

I'm pretty sure Nero is town here, unsure on Frozen so far

what changed from this andante?

cause Nero was reminding me of a Nero I played with before in a huge game, actually never checked the alignment there lol

what reminded u of that game?

only other game I've seen Nero, and the way Nero is, is very memorable tbh

you town read nero because he's nero?

What do you sr about nero?

I have almost no read on nero
Obviously neither do you so why are you pretending to? :p

[the worst]

I'm pretty sure Nero is town here, unsure on Frozen so far

what changed from this andante?

cause Nero was reminding me of a Nero I played with before in a huge game, actually never checked the alignment there lol

what reminded u of that game?

only other game I've seen Nero, and the way Nero is, is very memorable tbh

you town read nero because he's nero?

What do you sr about nero?

I have almost no read on nero
Obviously neither do you so why are you pretending to? :p

Very interesting.... What reads do you have then?

snooore

[the worst]

please snip the pyramids it's not that hard

me: outs a tr on nero post 700

Frozen: HOW DARE YOU VOTE NERO WHILE STILL TRING NERO!!! - post 1200

ok but your townread on nero was made up and your reason for voting him was nonsense

[the worst]

the next generation of dentists will need to have a conversation with scum!andante before becoming qualified, you heard it here first

[the worst]

andante's blatant disregard for the life of one of her townreads is a thing right? this isn't a mirage?

[the worst]

not reading the last few pages but is andante still clearly a wolf

[the worst]

VOTE: scorpious this one excites me less ftr

[the worst]

VOTE: scorpious this one excites me less ftr

what dioes this mean

i voted scorp
and then said the scorp wagon doesn't excite me as much

[the worst]

VOTE: scorpious this one excites me less ftr

what dioes this mean

i voted scorp
and then said the scorp wagon doesn't excite me as much

seems odd for u to have both of these thoughts in the same post?

does it? why lol

you voted a person, and then didnt like the wagon anymore within 5 words?

i said it's less exciting, not that i didn't like it.

so A. why vote them B. who on the wagon do u not like

a. it's a wagon and nobody else is interested in andante so i'd rather vote for someone i'm fine voting for who is getting pressure than vanity vote someone who nobody is looking at;

b. stop putting words in my mouth.



why are any of these points interesting to you?

[the worst]

i'll concede that obviously you're also looking at andante, but to be completely blunt, you're not really doing anything to advance that :p

[the worst]

i'll concede that obviously you're also looking at andante, but to be completely blunt, you're not really doing anything to advance that :p

What? Hockey is looking at me?

ya clearly

[the worst]

i had to google to find out who stephen smith is and god does this stephen smith read pure

[the worst]

feels like this game would be a whole bunch easier to solve (and read honestly) if we just yeeted andante & scorp
it's still really concerning me that i can't remember anything about greeting though lol

[the worst]

VOTE: greeting!!!

[the worst]

any wagon "if we can get enough" sounds sus....

how so

[the worst]

I mean like, if you can't get enough, it means people don't sr the person, so if you actually want people on the wagon, you need something convincing. something more than "if we can get enough"

which is sus why? lol

[the worst]

mhm point taken
VOTE: scorp

sorry fire, i think this is better to handle by elim

[the worst]

how do you propose we sort frozen/nero?

[the worst]

ya ditto

[the worst]

his iso is just very... beige

[the worst]

VOTE: Greeting o heck yeeeah

[the worst]

this won't like, do anything to fix the clutter problem, is my main concern

[the worst]

yeah I'll defs take dead scum

scorp/greeting wagons would be so nice.

[the worst]

how do you propose we sort frozen/nero?

By ....voting one of them?

nero flips town: then what?
nero flips scum: then what?
frozen flips town: then what?
frozen flips scum: then what?

i don't think this is something that is resolved by flipping one of them. i think flipping one of them to try and solve it instead of flipping scum is pointless, when we can just flip scum.

[the worst]

TBH,this would not be the first bad wagon I've seen Greeting receive recently, I'm reading them now..

To me it's just a repeat of Newbie 2086 in a new rendition (thankfully not a repeat of Mini Normal 2257 - that game was a trainwreck). I wouldn't say that

fireisredsir

has bad reasons for voting me, just like the reasons to vote me out in Newbie 2086 game weren't bad either. In that game, butterchurn, claimed that I haven't rolled scum in any of my games before so I'm bound to roll scum eventually and clung to what he perceived as my misguided logic and misrepresentations of what others' said. Here,

fireisredsir

says, it's a gutread based on supposedly me being more careful than usual. It was obviously a case of confirmation bias and paranoia coming from town and I think it's just nothing new in Mini Normal 2262.

What concerns me, however, is the speed in which

Nero Cain

and

the worst

followed. Both just jumped when my name surfaced and went in for the kill.

Truth is, I would have been more active if I didn't feel trumped by the hyperactivity of others to be fair. I guess at one point I just gave up and I'm waiting for Day 1 to end, hopefully with one of my picks eliminated.

I was the first one to mention you there but ok go off

[the worst]

Hockeyfan is town yeah

[the worst]

you didn't read it did you

I think theres something really insincere about you claiming to be falling behind because you're overwhelmed, when all of your posting is kinda sheep tepid takes which you're presenting as your own

I also just tried to do a read list and realised I'd literally kill more than half of the plist without blinking lol

[the worst]

For all those who are piling up on Scorpious please refute my logic here so I can see why you disagree.

UNVOTE: Nero does not need to be E-1 at this moment

This doesn't come from scum I don't think. If Nero is Town scum would stand their ground and wait for a hammer. If Nero is Scum the unvote brings a lot of attention to Scorpious once Nero is flipped.

that's the post which made me vote him. Scum are obsessed with looking good, and slipping off a wagon so that it is less likely to be hammered outta nowhere is a very instinctive thing to do which is technically good.

As a behavioural tell, this is a scumtell not a towntell

[the worst]

you didn't read it did you

I think theres something really insincere about you claiming to be falling behind because you're overwhelmed, when all of your posting is kinda sheep tepid takes which you're presenting as your own

I also just tried to do a read list and realised I'd literally kill more than half of the plist without blinking lol

Oh, I skimmed the first half of your ISO and found nothing of the sort, so I knew this was not true.

god forbid I developed reads

this is my issue with you
you're clearly not reading with intent to solve
all of your reads are sluggish and consensus
yet you still want to come off it looking like you're solving

your characterisation of your wagon doesn't make sense from someone who read the wagon. it makes perfect sense from someone who lazily checked the vc, and then applied their current reads to their expectation of the wagon.

[the worst]

@the worst: You're voting Greeting not Scorpious

@wavemode: Yes they do. But not under the circumstances here. When someone looks like they're going down anyway scum may hop off the wagon. When someone has been in and off for a while and it's hard to seal the wagon they'd be desperate to get a hammer in especially when they are a candidate for the alternate lim. But maybe you know more.

Correct. I still vehemently disagree with your reasoning for looking scorp as town.

[the worst]

feels like this game would be a whole bunch easier to solve (and read honestly) if we just yeeted andante & scorp
it's still really concerning me that i can't remember anything about greeting though lol

im down for a greeting lim if we can get enough

VOTE: greeting!!!

@greeting if you think I'm scum I'm like... floored by how little you reacted to the bit where I showed my hand. you're just shitposting around it lol.

[the worst]

I keep wondering if you're just checked out town but the more I push you the more slimy you get and I just like..... don't feel wrong rn.......

[the worst]

I keep wondering if you're just checked out town but the more I push you the more slimy you get and I just like..... don't feel wrong rn.......

Well, I have a choice to watch myself get eliminated quietly and have this bring nothing for town or act. I chose to at least speak of the two scummiest players who I feel are pushing the

Greeting

wagon. If I haven't made it clear it's you and

Nero Cain

.

Sure, that's fine. The problem is the way you're doing that.

The way you're reacting is lacking in credibility or any indication that you've read the game. You aren't trying to understand where Nero and I are coming from (ftr, I don't really know where Nero is coming from on it either). You're trying to make us look bad, but in the process you're just giving away that you aren't really paying any attention to what's going on.

This comes across as p overt discrediting, and not solving. It's honestly exacerbated by the fact you clearly don't care about the circumstances around our votes & our reasoning for being on you - you just want to try and make us look bad for it.

[the worst]

Oh and also, I do have a terrible picture of Britney Spears in my profile picture, but I'm male. I don't mind "they" nor do I find being called female offensive, but it just confuses me as to whether it is me being referred to or someone else.

"terrible picture of Britney Spears" is a contradiction in terms she is glorious
but noted, thank you.

[the worst]

i'm at the point where this is so patently absurd i can't tell if it's scummy lol

[the worst]

VOTE: Scorpious i guess

[the worst]

VOTE: Scorpious i guess

again? lol

you're still wolfy so hells yeah

[the worst]

buddy

[the worst]

@the worst what changed between 1620, 1624 and 1633.

In 1624 u hinted that his play was "absurd", but were pushing him for most of today(irl) anyways, so why the quick switch?

i'm not feeling the greeting wagon rn and i think i've spent enough time unproductively roasting him

[the worst]

@the worst what changed between 1620, 1624 and 1633.

In 1624 u hinted that his play was "absurd", but were pushing him for most of today(irl) anyways, so why the quick switch?

i'm not feeling the greeting wagon rn

why? literally what changed

it's boring. greeting is howling while tying his own noose and there's other things going on.

[the worst]

sorry, that imagery is icky. i'll find better ways to say that in future.

[the worst]

What changed is the scum duck realised my miselimination would incriminate her so they quietly moved away to the next thing that’s stealing the spotlight.

excuse me

i do NOTHING quietly >:(

[the worst]

i was doing so well......had them all fooled........yet here i am, caught, by the same scumbag i am trying to eliminate..................... my poor heart cannot take the shame.......................................

[the worst]

greeting is one of:
- profoundly confirmation biased and unable to change his reads;
- trying not to spew partners
lol

[the worst]

A duck walked up to the lemonade stand
And he said to the man running the stand
Hey! Bum bum bum, I rolled scum

i sincerely doubt you sell lemonade, but thanks for making me smile

[the worst]

greeting, i literally started your wagon.

[the worst]

like there are so many criticisms you can make of the way i interacted with fire there but i literally brought up you being a scumbag, and was the first one to vote you

[the worst]

Really? As far as I remember I was going after numerous players before settling on you.

"Going after" is self-serving; this is the first thing I've actually seen you putting any effort into

That might have been with your naked vote. But it’s fireisredsir who gave the reasoning and Nero Cain who gave the drive. You’ve been just sitting on it.

i'm fine with this characterisation ftr. i'm not as vocal as fire or nero and won't pretend i am.

[the worst]

o

Suspecting players is fine. I suspect lots of things. You just haven't done anything meaningful to try and advance your suspicions before now.

Brutal honesty mode: Idrm about you having me as one of your prime suspects. My wincon isn't to avoid your suspicion - it's to eliminate 3 scum. Even if i were scum, my wincon is getting enough miselims to get my teammates to the end. There's just no world where I really give a stuff what you think about me on day one. At best, I care about your alignment; at worst, I care about the way you look to others. You've shown yourself to be pretty ineffectual in this game, so you're probably the least daunting player here fmpov.

I don't really think there's a point to me continuing this convo going, Greeting. I'm not going to convince you that you're wrong on me, and trying is boring. What you're pushing me for is already at odds with reality, and until you've taken a step back and assessed how one-dimensional your reads are, we're not going to accomplish anything.

You are fun to interact with though, so hmu if you do want to talk about more interesting stuff. I'm just not gonna do all the work next time.

pedit: nightnight

[the worst]

anyone played with Greeting before? I realllllllllly don't feel like trying to do meta

[the worst]

That's what I'm wondering. Having a totally warped perspective of the gamestate but being pretty indignant is usually a sign of one alignment or the other based on personality type, i guess (super lazily: it's either sincere/stubborn town or hilariously cheeky scumming).

Kinda phoning in the first 2/3-3/4 of the phase is a pretty solid scum indicator, but it is actually also consistent with overwhelmed town.
I can kinda see worlds where this as someone who's been bored up til he feels the craving for vindication about something (s/s duck/nero being out for his blood???)?

[the worst]

Do you have a lot of mafia experience prior to your join date, fire?

[the worst]

that's fair, i don't judge the scumread poorly and would probably still yeet greeting without many regrets. i think my reads are somewhere like

{duck}
{wave,fire}
{stephen, angel, hockey?}
{greeting???, eyes?}
{dwlee,nero,umlaut}
{scorp,andante}

and i'd kill anything in the bottom 3 brackets so i'm kinda looking for townreads lol


thanks; that makes sense.

[the worst]

let's recap this conversation

scorp: I now scumread wavemode, because his reads didn't change enough since an arbitrary number of posts ago
wave: um... so?
scorp: (doesn't answer)
wave: so? how does that make someone scum?
scorp: well it means if you're town, you must be stubborn town
wave: uhhh okay...? also, why not scumread other people who have stuck with their reads all game?
scorp: uh well, they didnt post lists
wave: ummm so because they didn't post lists you weren't keeping track of anyone's reads? why not?
scorp: well, I was keeping track of their reads
wave: okay, so... what are their reads? and why don't you scumread them?
scorp: (doesn't answer)
scorp: by the way what's been the most significant things that's happened this game?
wave: wtf kind of question is that? alright whatever, here's an example
scorp: that's a bad example

i don't think anybody needed this to realise Scorp is clowning but thanks

[the worst]

Wave-
You have Nero and Eyes with me the dreaded red lettering.

Why do you scum read them, are we the scum team, and for bonus points. What would either of those two have to do to move up on your list. And how many clicks would it get them to also

And where on “la list Italiano” is the line? Is it half way through the white? I mean you got 5 null reads according to your most graciously National expression of reads, after 1700 posts. Like , realy. Null on all of them ?

i'm still reading your posts in john dimaggio's voice fyi

[the worst]

that's bayes baybee

i like this, lol

[the worst]

Consistency is neither a towntell nor a scumtell. It's just a way of processing your brainthoughts. Nobody knows anything about mafia. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.

[the worst]

hi

[the worst]

Actually let's try it.

VOTE: Andante

FA, Fire, join me here?

Pedit: so now Nero is getting votes. I'll go back there if it looks like it might actually reach majority but the way it's gone up and down a million times I'm not optimistic

temptinggggg

[the worst]

the "that doesnt make her more right" implies that i think it doesnt make her more town, hence I am still scumreading her

so you think (you said "know", even) that she genuinely believes Nero is scum, but you also are still scumreading her? not tryna play word games here but i really do not understand this. if she were scum it would not be genuine

Scum can still act genuine imo(which she is looking like), but whatever, this convo is getting into semantics now lol

also @1871, what a bold ass claim, holy, does scrop just come out and say this as scum? when he can continue to shade the ppl on wagon since a couple ppl agree some of the ppl on the wagon are scummy

this is a game of semantics !

discerning the difference between acting genuine & *being* genuine is the essence of scumhunting

[the worst]

I don't really want greeting or nero atm, gth I'd probably vote nero but its tempting to yeet greeting so he'll stop posting

but peak elim fmpov if someone who's offering tonnes of posts, nearly no meaningful content, and who I dont townread at all

so I'll remain stubborn for a bit

[the worst]

I don't really get y u scum read me

I'm honestly not sure I do? (I haven't read what most people seen to take issue with you for and I glaze over their cases) but all the cool kids are doing it so it must result in something interesting

[the worst]

so much powrr

[the worst]

eyes of sheep, nose of goat, mouth of cow

[the worst]

Im town yeet

[the worst]

yeah look
VOTE: greeting e+1

[the worst]

I kinda feel like this went through too easily I guess

[the worst]

eh, tomorrow problem if it's town

[the worst]

that's a decent point. the momentum is the bit that struck me.

[the worst]

that's a decent point. the momentum is the bit that struck me.

[the worst]

Scorp is very conspicuous to me!

[the worst]

pre-flips are rad

[the worst]

dwlee has lost control and they must be stopped.
actually dwlee do you think I should have a read on you?

[the worst]

Scorp is very conspicuous to me!

does player x being conspicous make them more town to u?

no, just makes them conspicuous

[the worst]

Im just so happy greeting can't post after the flip

[the worst]

VOTE: Scorpious ez

[the worst]

Ya sure that phase was excruciatingly painful. Id have voted anyone who i didn't townread to get it over with. I was fine hammering Greeting, Dwlee just got in there first.

[the worst]

I don't even think its that surprising Greeting was town. I would've just gone for him because he was spamming the same unnuanced half-baked read instead of playing the game and it was annoying.

[the worst]

VOTE: dwlee

VOTE: eyes

why vote eyes here tho?

[the worst]

Hi hi

[the worst]

VOTE: eyes

[the worst]

VOTE: eyes

just such a weird playstyle. But in a funny way. I get it.

thanks ?

[the worst]

I think I like scorpious now
VOTE: nero probabley

[the worst]

my gut doesn't trust wave or umlaut but i don't know if i trust my gut

ditto on wave lol

[the worst]

ok ok fine
VOTE: eyes

[the worst]

oh yeah, agreed. this is outstanding/

[the worst]

what swayed u.

a certain wind ~~
i feel better about this despite the swift wagon pickup and feel like nero is just, kind of a default
not to say that we shouldn't still yeet nero i'm just warming to the eyes yeet

i think i do trust wave i'm just not totally absolutely certain i won't change my mind on that tbqh

[the worst]

fire is inside my brain slightly more than i am inside my own brain. i think it might just potentially be wave doin wave things.

[the worst]

Nero still voting obvtown s m h

[the worst]

Ill solve this game once eyes is dead fr

[the worst]

I literally don't care. if you need to find a reason to join Nero on me youre going to find one eventually. I'm still not going down today lol.

[the worst]

What in tanration could u not like about a duck recipe lmao

the joke is kinda done to death but I'm glad some folks are still getting a kick out of it

[the worst]

umlaut/eyes 2/2?

[the worst]

I don't think Nero is their third.

[the worst]

actually Nero may be too smart for what I'm thinking
still, looking elsewhere

[the worst]

I think Scorp is pretty pure today tbh

[the worst]

would do Umlaut, want Eyes a lil more

[the worst]

clearly

[the worst]

I have mechanical information suggesting eyes is scum lol

[the worst]

it's not a guilty and i'd hoped to slow-roll it but i'm worried i'm being too obvious so here we go

[the worst]

same, but without the middle part

[the worst]

interesting. umlaut/eyes is probably 2/2

[the worst]

dwlee uses they/them pronouns

[the worst]

duckie give it to me straight, this is 100 % mech guilty?

explicitly no but I'm fairly confident !!

[the worst]

I admire the effort eyes but you're not turning this on me

[the worst]

i have v little interest in revealing more info about my role. y'all are wild.

[the worst]

i'm outing *at all* because this town is so dysfunctional and lazy that it can't hit obvious scum. i'm not fullclaiming to get an elim on scum who is already POE.

[the worst]

I don't give a shit about your role

I want you to say whether eyes is 100% guranteed scum or not

for the third time, because your reading comprehension is apparently tragic: not explicit. just pretty confident.

[the worst]

no disrespect intended, eyes: i respect the effort, but you aren't convincing anyone. there isn't a world where i'd trade myself for you here. there's just too many doors open.

[the worst]

i do what i want. i was pretty sure eyes was just dying and still have 2 scumbags to catch :shrug:

[the worst]

it would be v dumb for scum worst to trade himself for town eyes here. i don't think that's likely at all. im more worried about the possibility of wrongtown. but worst has played a lot more than me and ill trust that he knows what he's doing even if it doesn't make sense to me

VOTE: Eyes

nvm, I re read the worsts iso, and at the very very start of d2, it seems like they didnt have a guility on eyes, they were pushing other ppl and voting elsewhere, only AFTER 2098 is when they start pushing eyes?(its also super weird? like "hi hi" then just *vote eyes*, so im intrested about the others players thoughts if this *is* a scum claiming PR)

UNVOTE:
for now

eyes was his first vote of the day so it's believable to me. Although he voted me later which doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Like I could maybe see him not want to out to get eyes dead but I don't really understand why he ever unvotes eyes either. I do agree with Fire though that I don't really see scum Worst trading in his life for Eyes.

I am fine being the lim today. However, if either of you does not insist on voting out the worst tomorrow I would appreciate it if neither played with me anymore, because I really won't appreciate either of you using this "I don't think scum worst trading his life for eyes" as a reason to suggest they might still not be scum after I do flip.

please don't do this, making requests of people in future games is creepy

[the worst]

VOTE: stephen

i'm p sure someone else is hinting at a guilty on eyes but i don't really think eyes is scum

[the worst]

sorry for holding the game hostage for a minute there

[the worst]

eh stephen TMI'd, I don't feel bad

[the worst]

intent to hammer

why'd you give intent here?

[the worst]

intent to hammer

why'd you give intent here?

b/c u were claiming a quasi guilty

you didn't just hammer why?

[the worst]

should i hammer now i'm so bored

this is a pretty noncommittal response to a claimed guilty, also a really strange priority when -

duckie give it to me straight, this is 100 % mech guilty?

- this is his second thought

scum know that a guilty on town is not a guilty; it's pretty unintuitive to fake not ebing aware of this. it's actually pretty instinctual to try and look good around a townie driving a miselim on a townie. his not joining the wagon but talking around it is an alarm bell, and i struggle to believe this order of posts is coming from someone who is actually genuinely curious about the legitimacy of the guilty.

it reads more like someone who's like "hm i shouldn't vote this because it'll hit green, oh but i guess in that case i should be sceptical about it" and it's makin my skin all crawly

should i hammer now i'm so bored

hammer your sucm parnter, do it

if this was my scum partner I would've already hammered

: /

duck is there any way eyes can be VT here given the information you have? there shouldn't be any ambiguity, either it's possible or it isn't

I want a 100% answer from duck about the quality of the mechanical information

for the record fire's question actually looks like sincere curiosity about the result!
stephen's "i want a 100% answer" is again trending away from sincerely reacting to the result, and more heavily towards that instinctive pull towards doubting the sincerity of it (scum TMI instinct).

I don't give a shit about your role

I want you to say whether eyes is 100% guranteed scum or not

atp i'd answered twice that it wasn't an explicit guilty (i was hinting that i'm following what i think someone else is hinting, though admittedly i'm doing so obtusely) and stephen had missed both of those mentions. this again feels like someone who's trying to end up on the right side of history rather than someone who's sincerely reacting to something.

[the worst]

: ]


pedit: antante, why?

[the worst]

duck if you're town and claiming a fake mech guilty on another town on d2 perhaps you should re-examine how you play mafia games because your shitty fake claim gets eyes to flip town here and you're town you're like almost 100% making this game unwinnable and I don't really feel like wasting time on some shit like that.

bruh sit down

[the worst]

feel free to counter my points but "i'm not stupid so i wouldn't do this as scum; also stop the shit you've already stopped because it's going to lose town the game" is so warped and deliberately minimises actually trying to solve the game

[the worst]

fair call.

VOTE: Nero

[the worst]

feel free to counter my points but "i'm not stupid so i wouldn't do this as scum; also stop the shit you've already stopped because it's going to lose town the game" is so warped and deliberately minimises actually trying to solve the game

I already told you how I play town you faking a shitty mech guilty on a town eyes.

It's easy and incredibly straight foward.

Perhaps instead of faking shitty mech guilties that almost get people killed you should try doing something productive with your time like voting for nero

i refuse.

i hope we can correspond without trying to minimise each other, though i'm done with you for the moment. i have zero regrets doing something to create a polarising gamestate.

[the worst]

does andante actually answer questions?

[the worst]

ever?

i'm not convinced i've ever seen her even try to make sense in a mafia game

[the worst]

i think i'm in a catty mood. bbl.

[the worst]

VOTE: the worst

lol.

[the worst]

sorry Dwlee if you want eyes I think you need to give us a bit more

[the worst]

VOTE: Nero

[the worst]

whats up w the vote: nero party?

[the worst]

i was already voting nero I'm funny

[the worst]

Eyes is town ya

[the worst]

works for me
VOTE: Dwlee

[the worst]

wavemode has been killed night 3. he was a

town jack-of-all-trades (rolecop, follower)

.

the sun rises, it is now day 4.

that is not a jack of very many trades???? we have been SCAMMED

[the worst]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

Greeting

[7]:

fireisredsir

,

Nero Cain

, Eyes without a face, Stephen A Smith,

Scorpious

,

HockeyFan

, Dwlee99

[HAMMER]

Nero Cain

[2]:

Frozen Angel

,

Greeting

Scorpious

[2]:

wavemode

, the worst

Andante [1]:

Umlaut

not voting [1]:

Andante

vote count 2.final

with 11 votes in play, it took 6 to make a decision. day 2 ended.

yeet

Nero Cain

[6]:

the worst, Umlaut,

Scorpious

, Stephen A Smith, Dwlee99, Andante

[HAMMER]

Scorpious

[1]:

HockeyFan

Andante [1]:

Nero Cain

the worst [1]:

Eyes without a face

Eyes without a face [1]:

wavemode

not voting [1]:

fireisredsir

vote count 3.final

with 9 votes in play, it took 5 to make a decision. day 3 ended.

yeet

Scorpious

[5]:

wavemode

, Andante,

HockeyFan

, Dwlee99, Stephen A Smith

[HAMMER]

Dwlee99 [1]:

the worst

wavemode

[1]:

Scorpious

not voting [2]:

Eyes without a face, Umlaut

anyone else into this stuff?
assuming hockey is town, nero was either p gloriously bussed or eyes is last scum. eyes has scumsided on all eod wagons.

[the worst]

Spoiler: eyes wagon peaks

vote count 1.10

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-02-19 12:00:00).

yeet

HockeyFan [5]:

Nero Cain, Stephen A Smith, fireisredsir, Andante, Scorpious

Eyes without a face [4]:

wavemode, Dwlee99, Frozen Angel, Greeting

Andante [1]:

HockeyFan

Greeting [1]:

Eyes without a face

not voting [2]:

0verki11, Umlaut

vote count 2.06

with 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-02-28 12:45:00).

yeet

Eyes without a face [4]:

Dwlee99, fireisredsir, the worst, Andante

Nero Cain [3]:

Stephen A Smith, Scorpious, Umlaut

Dwlee99 [2]:

HockeyFan, Eyes without a face

Scorpious [2]:

Nero Cain, wavemode

not voting [0]:

vote count 2.04

with 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to make a decision. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-02-28 12:45:00).

yeet

Eyes without a face [4]:

Dwlee99, fireisredsir, wavemode, the worst

Nero Cain [3]:

Stephen A Smith, Scorpious, Umlaut

Dwlee99 [2]:

HockeyFan, Eyes without a face

the worst [1]:

Nero Cain

not voting [1]:

Andante

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

flavour

scum avoided the eyes wagon like the plague even after the guilty was claimed... nero was tmi-ing thru the gambit for real. i think there were elements of my guilty which were really clearly fabricated and i strongly suspect these were publicised in the scum pt.

i kind of think dwlee/andante were pure around the eyes wagon. i liked dwlee's re-eval d3 as well.

(i'm not sorry for selectively leaving that vc flavour in)

[the worst]

i'm sorry i think my reasons for townreading eyes were kind of bad and dumb in a scum!nero universe.

[duck]
[andante, dwlee?]
[stephen]
[umlaut]
[eyes]

just like, from a tremendous height.
i've been pretty out of sync with the vibe of this game so kinda fine sheeping dwlee/stephen, andante slightly less so

[the worst]

nevermind i'm fine sheeping andante because those reads line up perfectly with mine :p

[the worst]

let's not massclaim today. fine with hockey outing his result.

pedit: umlaut's biggest sins are having very static reads, and not really doing anything towny

[the worst]

umlaut & scorp both lolbussing nero would be like, quite funny.

[the worst]

I just read you got greeting eliminated

nero has to go next day. This was the counter wagon he actually pushed along to form and was supported by other scum (probably scorp) , he went along side fire read as he was read wildly town without forming any read of his own on greeting, just like his read on my slot was fake.

after all these games I played I know a thing or two. If I got night killed, don't go along the wifom created that he will push along.

Do not give nero free path.

Other top suspect is Andante
next in line is Scorp and then Eye

I feel bad I wasn't here to fight against it Sounds like yall limmed Greeting without a claim too

This is BS btw. You were not against it when you were around.

please don't give Andante a free path either for acting clumsy with her reads and back tracking on stuff/forgetting what she was supposed to "think" literally 5 minutes ago in posts like 1234

this is worth noting. frozen is already 2/4 in [nero, scorp, andante, eyes] and if my gut is right, she is probably 3/3.
i think she is killed regardless of andante's alignment at this point.

[the worst]

that's unhelpful posturing andante.

[the worst]

eh i was born to try and i'll go out tryin

Alright, I guess I'll just drop this list. The varying shades of green are townreads of Day 1. I feel like each player I had suspected in this game so far has given me something suggesting that they're

not

scum. I suppose I had a choice to keep going with either of them, but I'd just be going against my gut at this point.

wavemode

Andante
Dwlee99
the worst
Nero Cain
Umlaut
Scorpious

fireisredsir

Eyes without a face

Frozen Angel

Stephen A Smith

Greeting

HockeyFan

There might be a scum or even two amongst those coloured light green.

I'm just unable to spot them yet.

Those coloured a darker shade green are firmer townreads in my eyes and I will not be pursuing them today.

I can be swayed to vote anyone shaded white.

Andante

,

Dwlee99

or

Nero Cain

are preferable. I'm more hesitant on

Scorpious

, but he isn't off the table either.

VOTE: Nero Cain

@

Nero Cain

, I actually have read your ISO and it's really bad. My conclusion is that it's full of indecisiveness, throwing hooks and attempts to catch other players over mere words. I can totally see a scum making all of your posts.

Greeting
Frozen Angel
HockeyFan

Umlaut
fireisredsir
Scorpious
wavemode

Stephen A Smith
Dwlee99
Andante

Eyes without a face

the worst
Nero Cain

fireisredsir

actually dropped down a tier, because tunnelling a townie can be a valid scum strategy. My wagon was literally all they devoted their energy towards for most of Day 1 in spite of them claiming to consider other possibilities. Still more chance this is town than scum though.

Tbf, if it was someone else being yeeted out right now, I would just tunnel to death first the red players, then

Eyes without a face

and wished for the best. I'm almost dead confident in

Frozen Angel

and

HockeyFan

being town and the light greens just seem... unlikely.

Yeet out

the worst

and

Nero Cain

!

interestingly greeting's reads were on a sound trajectory before we tried to set him on fire and then he started townreading scum (namely scorpious, potentially umlaut).
i'm also spoiled on the fact his scumreads are 1/2 lol, so grain of salt.

fire/wave likely power role related kills

[the worst]

tbh I don't think greeting lim was read related, I think greeting yeet was just cause greeting was an easy person to yeet...

neither do i. just interesting (anecdotally) that greeting's read quality decreased when he was wagoned.

[the worst]

So that final Vc...
Greeting [7]:

fireisredsir

,

Nero Cain

,

Eyes without a face

,

Stephen A Smith

,

Scorpious

,

HockeyFan

,

Dwlee99

[HAMMER]

(I like your color version more)

but.. would all 3 go on that wagon? oh.. you didn't end on the greeting wagon? lol I so thought you did cause all I remember from d1 was you being like "lol I'm voting whoever"

So, Umlaut maf? voting me? or 3 on the same wagon... hmmm

2 are guaranteed to be on the wagon. don't just look to the wagon, look at counterwagons too - there's nowhere else for scum to really be except on a vanity wagon (me against scorp for distancing / umlaut on you as a vanity wagon).
i definitely think the lim turned against greeting quite quickly and it wouldn't be all that surprising if all 3 were on there? i'm kind of indifferent about the number of scum on that wagon, but it's known to be 2-3.

pedit: oh, i didn't catch that scorp was guiltied, lol. that kind of nulls vca a bit. i think it's interesting to note how likely it was that *nero* had both partners bussing.

[the worst]

And back to my stephen/umlaut thought, if stephen "can't see umlaut maf" and can't give reads of his own... I don't think I've seen a single read other than the "DWLEE MAF!!" right out of the gate from stephen... maybe it's just stephen?

i'm so lukewarm on stephen. he hasn't really done anything towny except make proactive noises on d1 but i wonder if that's kind of a towntell for him?
dogpiling greeting, bussing nero, bussing scorpious does fit a version of reality, but. eh. i just think eyes or umlaut are kinda more likely.

[the worst]

i'm not really excited about flinging my vote around before hockey checks in

[the worst]

i'm acutely wary of stephen but i think i'd rather a flip in [eyes, umlaut] while we've got the time :p

[the worst]

im town :0

night andante

[the worst]

agree w 2764

the more I reflect on FA the more I feel like I understand why I vibe with her Andante read, but rhat I also dont think andante is scum. Andante is just always whimsical and flippant with her reads and in a vacuum I don't really feel like she's advanced agenda this game - if anything she's more like, inaccessible and confusing. which is just an Andante thing.

ideally I'll try and actually read over Andante's iso if I need to (screaming internally) but maybe just maybe we can win without that !!

[the worst]

can I tell u a secret

[the worst]

imma do it

I don't think there's an alium in this setup.

[the worst]

probs. this setup is pretty anti-swingy.

[the worst]

I would be, like, quite shocked if mafia had a gs inno role.

[the worst]

like 2724 from andnate, town points!. wtf does 2742 mean lmao

Andnate, why did u get swayed so easilly from Umulat to Stephen, makes little sense, when u were hard pushing Umulat

Anyways, I have a Not-Guilty Result on Stephen so either

A. Dudes Tratior/Mafia Doctor
or B. Hes VT and confrimed town?

Im leaning towards option B,

so ig uhhh we just have a POE of like what? Dwlee/Eyes and maybe TW? although im inclinced to TR TW

this makes me happyyyy
me/dwlee/eyes/umlaut is mech poe probably

[the worst]

like 2724 from andnate, town points!. wtf does 2742 mean lmao

Andnate, why did u get swayed so easilly from Umulat to Stephen, makes little sense, when u were hard pushing Umulat

Anyways, I have a Not-Guilty Result on Stephen so either

A. Dudes Tratior/Mafia Doctor
or B. Hes VT and confrimed town?

Im leaning towards option B,

so ig uhhh we just have a POE of like what? Dwlee/Eyes and maybe TW? although im inclinced to TR TW

He wasnt one of my TRS, and also he was probably the best option(imo) as he wasnt getting much sus as other ppl

Can you tell me how that makes sense though? "Not getting much sus, so I figured he might be maf" like... do you just believe no one else can make reads or what?

Ok i'll rephrase, Stephen was in the middle of the POE(for most ppl anyways), so as an Investigative, i wanted to check someone whos in the middle of the POE

If hockey is real, I'm not sold that Stephen isn't mafia doctor.. just sayin

yea, there is a possibillity hes mafia doctor, but meh

Anywyas can u answer 2775 for me

objectively good reason to check Stephen

[the worst]

Btw I'm gonna claim now because I'm confused af.

I'm a backup vigilante. If you're a vigilante... like... why haven't you shot? Unless I'm just meant as a gunsmith Miller but that's lame

aha this is what I was looking for. I think you're a gunsmith miller sorry.

[the worst]

ok i'm just going to out

I'm Alien Voyeur.

I think the last scum is between Dwlee/Hockey because I don't think Datisi puts 5 TPRs in this game

we have 3 lims so we can just elim me/dwlee/hockey and auto win

I want to start with Hockey first because scum leaving the gunsmith alive makes very little sense to me and I don't think we're dealing with a Mafia Doctor.

VOTE: HockeyFan

Does Hockey make sense as scum? scum backup gs to a town gs is really swingy, and I'm not sure this setup is approved with that level of scum power + that level of scum-sided swing.

Otherwise if hes not backup gs, does his role make sense with the Nero fuckery on d1?

we may be better forcing Hockey into d6 and having him 1v1 someone lol I think wave was still a fine kill for scum to make

[the worst]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13072187

Compare to this game I modded:

Setup

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic
Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Arguably there's more town power in that game than in this one. And here we have a scum roleblocking role (jailkeeper) + an enabler on a strong town role (alien).

That joat role makes me smile

[the worst]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13072187

Compare to this game I modded:

Setup

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic
Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

Arguably there's more town power in that game than in this one. And here we have a scum roleblocking role (jailkeeper) + an enabler on a strong town role (alien).

I'd just yeet both eyes and umlaut then pick up the pieces later if needed

[the worst]

I didn't tpr read dwlee but that kinda +1s my tpr on them i think. Needing to survive that hard does kinda cause that instinct to be less quick to evalulate your reads ?

I think I tr andante more after yesterday, i think i could hear her mind expanding during our back & forth yesterday

VOTE: eyes my heart keeps resting here.

[the worst]

I'm not even sure if eyes is my top scumread?? I think he is but I also really value knowing if his voting was pure or not