Mini Normal 2262: NbITGBSMoD [game over]

[Greeting]

Greetings!

VOTE: 0verki11 because leet speak is so mid-2000s.

[Greeting]

this rvs is wild!!! woooooo so exciting!! like, no one is really pushing 1 wagon, it's just "vote whoever" lol can rvs be over page 1 plz. I think Surye might be maf here, like, the 8th vote of the game, not on an existing wagon? ehhh

You said this when there were three votes on

HockeyFan

... to me it sounded like a wagon slowly building up.

[Greeting]

Aren't we all

You scared me half to death by making me think Not_Mafia is in the game.

[Greeting]

Oh wow, a lot has happened today. Allow me a moment to catch up.

[Greeting]

[Greeting]

Greeting,
We need a centered Stephen a VS DWLEE stat!!!

Also, Stephen is my new favorite player, I read every post in his voice.

Y'all could have waited four more days.

[Greeting]

There, happy?

[Greeting]

Ooh, I even snatched the top of the page!

[Greeting]

Post 188 also seems to be spot-on on

Stephen A Smith

. Repping into a game to post a completely random, unsubstantiated suspicion list (71) and then get into a heated argument with the top "culprit" just doesn't make sense as town play at all. Is this some kind of past-game grudge that I don't know of? 82 seems to be suggesting that, but then, in 156

Dwlee99

claims they know nothing of it.

You not about to stand there pretending you have the short term memory of a goldfish on me are you?

The pressure

Stephen A Smith

is seemingly putting on

Dwlee99

seems completely out of place to me.

As for their later posts, the rebuffs to their obviously very disruptive play seem to be overly aggressive, as in 192 or 196. Sure, they've repped in a short while ago, but why would it even matter when almost all they've literally posted is unnecessary banter.

VOTE: Stephen A Smith until they convince me they're town.

maybe stephen town for continuing to persits 1 thing instead of just letting it go(cuz it doesn't benefit him as mafia to do this).

This depends on who Stephen's main is

The playstyle reminds me of House.

And yes, I would say that spamming the crap out of the game benefits the mafia hugely and acts as a distracting force.

[Greeting]

I've got my first soft townlean early and that is

fireisredsir

.

I liked 36 already, but I disagree with the reasoning. Nonetheless, I think it's a legit read.

Two other posts from them I like, and I agree with, are 188 and 193.

There are no red flags from me from

fireisredsir

so far.

I don't think

HockeyFan

is particularly scummy. I can actually see their posts coming from a newbie town perspective (kinda like myself). Their intents in posts 27, 155, 170 and 176 are all giving me a genuine town game-solving attitude. I have played with

HockeyFan

before, in Newbie 2078. He repped into that game, then got miseliminated for being a compromise slot/low-hanging fruit, and I honestly don't see much difference between him here and there.

I suppose this could be a cause for concern though:

I probs have Dwlee as town(for now) for 16,20 and 34

I've played with

Dwlee99

in some games and I've found their playstyle to be generally quite nullish, and this game is no exception. Maybe but for that bizarre squabble with

Stephen A Smith

, but I don't see their participation in it as town-indicative either.

What makes you think that's a townslot?

[Greeting]

I've played with

Dwlee99

in some games and I've found their playstyle to be generally quite nullish, and this game is no exception. Maybe but for that bizarre squabble with

Stephen A Smith

, but I don't see their participation in it as town-indicative either.

What makes you think that's a townslot?

Alright since 2 ppl haev asked me, i'll say what i found town

16 seemed like a good clarifcation question and not let Andante pick and choose what they want to see

20 is towny cuz i mainly agreed with it(and for the most part it was the first REAL vote of the game)

34- pretty similar reasoning to why i liked 16

I mean, fair enough, but like... they have a playstyle that reads as low-effort to me and that makes them hard for me to townread, especially this early in the game.

[Greeting]

There are no red flags from me from fireisredsir so far.

fire

is

red

sir

this has been a contentless fluffpost

[Greeting]

1 - I don't agree that it was spamming by the literal meaning. It was reaction hunting from what I saw and I actually liked it.
2 - I can't understand why you think them putting pressure (even if it was unwarranted and without a previous reason) on dwelee scummy. Putting pressure solves slots. how is that a scum doing by nature in your point of view?
3 - Why guilty until proven innocent mindset?

even with the above 3 observations on your read here, I think that this is not busy working and is an actual attempt to make a read. anyways need to check its consistency yet.

I got nothing of the argument other than the fact that it happened itself, so I guess we differ in that regard. That's the answer for 1 and 2.

As for 3, because this time I'm trying to put in actual pressure. While playing a character playing mafia can be entertaining, it's also easy to hide behind.

[Greeting]

Scorpious

is unusually enthusiastic about this game.

My gut tells me it's because of

Stephen A Smith

though.

[Greeting]

Scorpious

is unusually enthusiastic about this game.

My gut tells me it's because of

Stephen A Smith

though.

Does them being enthusiastic about this game affect your read on them?

I thought the context of the post implied that I think it's NAI.

[Greeting]

Maybe not but statistically scum replace out more than town do and especially so at the start of the game. Someone who doesn't like to play scum or someone who didn't like their teammates or someone who thought one of their own are going down too early. I do not promote it to be a 100% plan but early replacement have a higher %age of being scum than you would expect.

Personally, I haven't seen a higher proportion of scums seeking replacement than town in any of the games I played. I don't think that's a very credible theory.

[Greeting]

@Greeting, current opinions on waveform and hockeyfan?

I spoke of

HockeyFan

in 229 and my opinion hasn't changed.

I'm assuming you mean

wavemode

. I have rather mixed feelings about that slot and I'm open to eliminating that.

His early behavior is rather erratic. I don't like 158 nor the subsequent explanation in 164.

0verki11

is a rather nullish, inactive slot. My vote on him was RVS, and once that ended I lost interest in that slot completely. While

0verki11

hasn't contributed much, I don't think there's enough stuff to raise anyone's suspicions.

wavemode

's posting history does not indicate any willingness to put pressure on him. And yet, later in 351 he speaks highly of the questioning process, none of which he exhibited himself.

Which is why I think these two posts come either from a "meh, I'll just pick lhf and stick to it" perspective that only makes sense if coming from scum.

Another slot which is easy to suspect is

Eyes without a face

who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the

Eyes without a face

wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If

wavemode

is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if

wavemode

is treating

Eyes without a face

as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

As for 360, I haven't been paying much attention to

Nero Cain

and that slot didn't really pick my attention either. I don't feel like analysing it right now though, maybe later.

I also don't see

Scorpious

as particularly scummy this game (referencing 363). It is, however, my gut read based on the fact that his scum game often tends to be unenthusiastic and he seems to be really into it this time. I'm not ruling out scum

Scorpious

, but I think there's more scummy slots than that.

Overall,

wavemode

has been clinging on to low hanging fruit all game and I feel like I'm on different wavelengths with them when it comes to reads. In my opinion, this makes a chance of them being scum higher than average.

[Greeting]

It's not your conclusion that was unsettling with me even though I don't find him using that inherently scum motivated.

So he said because of this theory, I think to replace ins are more likely scum: This is pretty much a low hanging fruit slot with 0 contexts before this, saying something completely pointless again

2 people vote for him and I express my concern, then you first

give the theory some legitimacy

and then call him bad for using it. Now again I don't find that contradictory I just don't like how it was constructed to that point because I know you.

Now about my own read so far is that it was

weird and so sudden

that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.

I like this post very much. Maybe I should look into

Nero Cain

after all?

[Greeting]

Is there anyone here who townreads HockeyFan?

Me.

[Greeting]

Scorpious

is unusually enthusiastic about this game.

My gut tells me it's because of

Stephen A Smith

though.

Real game day 1 Stephen was an absolute treat. They did a great job with a gimmick slot. It’s tapered a bit .

So far this group is also very interesting, far from the travesty we were involved in a few weeks ago.

I agree with the sentiment to be fair. This is a very nice change from my last few games.

[Greeting]

@Greeting, why are you concerned with this wagon,do u TR them(and why)

Eyes with out a face

is a null read from me. In my experience, every game has its low posters who are all pretty easy to be picked on. I'm not looking for an easy elimination but for scum. I'm not saying no to voting them, but I see better candidates.

Stephen A Smith

, why are you scumreading

HockeyFan

?

[Greeting]

As for

Andante

, idk how to read her even though we've played several times before.

[Greeting]

HockeyFan

, I’ve already answered that, and what you’ve asked me before (I was kind enough to repeat it). If you want to find out why I think so then just read the thread more carefully, because you clearly aren’t.

VOTE: wavemode

[Greeting]

@

Scorpious

I’ll get back to you.

I just hope that I’m not wrong in taking this lack of attention by

HockeyFan

as a sign of a newbie town.

[Greeting]

@Greeting, why are you concerned with this wagon,do u TR them(and why)

Eyes with out a face

is a null read from me. In my experience, every game has its low posters who are all pretty easy to be picked on. I'm not looking for an easy elimination but for scum. I'm not saying no to voting them, but I see better candidates.

Stephen A Smith

, why are you scumreading

HockeyFan

?

This post is below your normal level of quality. As far as eyes; It’s not the post count, it’s the content. I don’t understand the motivation in making your first real content about how they key in on reps as scum.

I don’t see this as any form of AI from you, just used to better..

You're right. Well, their content didn't stand out to me that much, and the fact there isn't much of it significantly contributes to this feeling. I try to read all of the game, but I pay more attention to some things and less to other. I guess that's just my way of processing a lot of information. When necessary, I look back to re-read and re-think what happened. What picked my attention were all the players whom I had mentioned before and so I focused more strongly on them.

But... now that you've prompted me to look at their ISO again, 217 is giving me a kind of (!?!?) in my head.

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

This reminds me of when a scum-aligned hyper poster in Newbie 2082 MafMen (actually,

Andante

replaced him later on in the game) said this:

igorsprite and pseudo interaction looks weird but i think its green for both sides
greeting seems probtown, i like their presence

Before that post in Newbie 2082 happened I used to think that scum wouldn't throw townreads lacking ground like this. More experience proved otherwise.

But, my gut feeling says that it's usually townies who make posts like 417. I think that it's more likely for town to rebuff someone's suspicion like this. So

Eyes without a face

is not a scumread, but also definitely not a townread.

[Greeting]

i agree that greeting doesn't look like they usually do from what i've read. feels less independently investigative and more, idk, focused on responding and going with the flow of things while not standing out too much?

What have you read?

[Greeting]

HockeyFan

, I’ve already answered that, and what you’ve asked me before (I was kind enough to repeat it). If you want to find out why I think so then just read the thread more carefully, because you clearly aren’t.

VOTE: wavemode

They're both low posters, and I do not think clinging onto LHF is a scum trait(esp when they havent been "clinging" that much on it)

I didn't think that too. But my later experiences in the game showed me that it's actually surprisingly common to have LHF eliminated Day 1 with the majority of scums supporting the miselimination and one (or two) in larger games staying out of it. While eliminating a townie is theoretically supposed to make players on the miselimination wagon look dirty, to my surprise most players on MafiaScum don't seem to care that much about that at all.

I should compile some stats from my past games. But then again, what is considered LHF is rather subjective.

[Greeting]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.

[Greeting]

at the moment I'm willing to vote eyes or scorpious. though I think overall eyes is our best lynch

it's a fallacy to assume (as some have) that just because someone hasn't posted a lot that must mean we don't have enough information to lynch them. eyes has done plenty and none of it is good

to the point where it's like they're not even really reading the game? or intentionally avoiding having to participate in it. ahhh let's face it lurker or not this flips scum more often than not

pedit: well yeah, I pointed out that exact problem I had with eyes's 217 all the way back in my 355

Do you think that

Scorpious

and

Eyes with out a face

are both scum-aligned?

[Greeting]

they are simply the two players who I think are overall least likely to be town here

what that means regarding their partnership and/or the setup is impossible to know, however

so trying to evaluate them in terms of whether or not I think they are partners with each other is strategically unsound

I'd argue otherwise.

Scorpious

has just pointed out to me, in 469, what I believe was his perceived shallowness of my read on

Eyes with out a face

. I openly admitted to not having focused on them much. If they're both scum, why would he do that to his partner?

[Greeting]

Another slot which is easy to suspect is Eyes without a face who is also their current choice of vote. Sure, they're also rather questionable, but I feel that it's just the easy road for scum to go after someone who's obviously standing out for not posting very much when in fact it's more likely to be NAI than scum. The speed in which the Eyes without a face wagon gained votes is concerning. Then again, he does have a point with 355 - that is a read that can be explained from a town point of view. If wavemode is town then I guess we just differ in the judgement of 217, which I think isn't very scummy and is NAI at best. This could unfortunately also make a point from a scum point of view if wavemode is treating Eyes without a face as an easy Day 1 miselimination.

um, why is this entire paragraph telling nothing? like you're saying everything is NAI pretty much and irrelevant?

Is saying that something is NAI telling nothing in your opinion? I disagree.

No, I mean it's just not conclusive or directed, as it's not really stating anything to push the game forward (for even yourself)

everything done by players is alignment indicative, maybe not alone but when seen as a pattern of behavior they can only come from a town mindset or scum mindset and town is not here to be certain, town is here to find which mindset is more probable. so calling things irrelevant and just not forming any opinions about them and then saying no opinion can be found based on them (specially in this case where that is all eye did in game so far so that is by itself a pattern of behavior) is either lazy work or distancing

I disagree, but I guess opinions may differ.

If I say something is NAI, I'm simply shelving sorting the slot until he/she/they start posting AI content. In most cases I find something else from someone else that

is

AI. I don't know about you, but I find it impossible to sort all slots in the game on Day 1, and sometimes up until the end of game (though I've survived until endgame only once on MafiaScum).

[Greeting]

I just want to mention that Eye is not a lurker and I don't like how the term is being used repeatedly to call the slot unreadable

They actually fabricated a bunch of reads when questioned

and had some reactions in-game.

If you mean lurker as not a hyperactive poster, yeah but that's just a personality trait unless it can be evaluated with meta in another way.

Oh? Do go on.

[Greeting]

Scorpious has just pointed out to me, in 469, what I believe was his perceived shallowness of my read on Eyes with out a face. I openly admitted to not having focused on them much. If they're both scum, why would he do that to his partner?

I don't townread people because I'm worried they might be partners with someone else I scumread. that's just not logically sound

what if scorpious just did that to make himself look good after eyes flips? he's been playing mafia for years, he's not a noob

or what if they are both scum but not aligned with each other? we don't know the setup

or, hey, let's assume you're right and one of them is town. how could I possibly know which one it is? how could I use that to townread one of them? I would have to make a lot of baseless assumptions to come to such a conclusion

Firstly, I never said that one of them is town nor that one of them is scum nor that both are town or scum. I asked you that question, however.

Secondly, this is a Mini Normal game. Sure, we have limited information about the game's setup, but I believe that two scum teams are out of the question.

The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). In mini games (at most 13 players), there must be exactly one such group, with no third parties.

While townies may often do something without having a clear plan in mind, it is not unreasonable to expect scums to have a certain plan to follow, as their objectives to win the game are obviously different. Guessing what that plan is can be a strategy for town to figure out whom the team is. I have a preference to rely on voting patterns in that regard, but we're in Day 1 and no one is dead yet. Still, it is generally in the interest of the scumteam not to give themselves a starting disadvantage by bussing one of them at the very start of the game. At least, I have

never

seen any scumteam to even attempt that, and even if they sometimes did vote to eliminate one another, it was just a distancing strategy.

Sorry, but I am just not buying this explanation. You say that

Scorpious

is not a noob, but you're no noob either and this just seems like you've picked two players lined up for elimination and stuck with them while openly refusing to reflect further on that at all. And that is more likely to come from scum and town. My vote on you stands.

[Greeting]

*scum than town EBWOP

[Greeting]

I explained it before

Now about my own read so far is that it was weird and so sudden that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.

I find the use of that theory in that specific moment when they got questioned to participate and their lack of mentioning all other replaced slots in-game with that theory fabricated.

it can be a fabrication as a lazy town who is like yeah I just say something cause I'm asked and see where that gets me (he even predicted he'll get heat for it)
or from a mafia who really can't engage as the conversation is town-dominated.

I actually think that I lean on the first right now but I have my doubts.

Just because something sounds not quite right or is simply incorrect doesn't necessarily mean it's fake, as in the person making the post doesn't believe in it. And that's why I'm leaning towards this being NAI.

When it comes to that slot, what interested me more than 413 was 217 for reasons described in by me in 483. But I am not fully convinced that this player is the best choice to eliminate today. Right now I'm feeling more strongly about

wavemode

.

[Greeting]

I am thinking eyes + FA could be partnered

Partnered, as in both are either scum or town, never of opposite alignments?

[Greeting]

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

Anyway welcome FA.

Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

Dwlee99 replaces LicketyQuickety.

yeap that's what I was trying to say.

Wait, it just struck me. You are right, that is a glaring sign of inconsistence that I missed.

I will wait for the vote count before I switch.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I think that’s E-2.

[Greeting]

Now I have a feeling both main wagons are town.

UNVOTE: Eyes without a face

[Greeting]

@

Frozen Angel

don't use the l-word to refer to voting out a player. It's banned. Use "eliminate" instead.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Frozen Angel

call it an OMGUS if it makes you feel better but this is a scum slot

Why?

[Greeting]

I'm pretty sure Nero is town here, unsure on Frozen so far

And I'm pretty sure

Frozen Angel

is town, unsure on

Nero Cain

so far.

[Greeting]

Spoiler: Greeting position on eyes

I explained it before

Now about my own read so far is that it was weird and so sudden that they tried to use that to generate a read on that moment and if it's not their typical playstyle (which would be an awful one) and he had no other legit reasons behind it (especially since he specifically mentioned me when there were 3 other replace ins), it's pretty much fabricated.

I find the use of that theory in that specific moment when they got questioned to participate and their lack of mentioning all other replaced slots in-game with that theory fabricated.

it can be a fabrication as a lazy town who is like yeah I just say something cause I'm asked and see where that gets me (he even predicted he'll get heat for it)
or from a mafia who really can't engage as the conversation is town-dominated.

I actually think that I lean on the first right now but I have my doubts.

Just because something sounds not quite right or is simply incorrect doesn't necessarily mean it's fake, as in the person making the post doesn't believe in it. And that's why I'm leaning towards this being NAI.

When it comes to that slot, what interested me more than 413 was 217 for reasons described in by me in 483. But I am not fully convinced that this player is the best choice to eliminate today. Right now I'm feeling more strongly about

wavemode

.

Early townreads on both Andante and Dwlee for seemingly being the driving forces of the game getting out of RVS so quickly.

Well I know this is going to bring a lot of heat my way but I should let you all know I tend to suspect replacements more. I guess it was DGB (if memory serves me right) that once said if we eliminate all replacements town always wins (or something to that effect).

Anyway welcome FA.

Also @Andante I do appreciate the townread but something tells me I have yet to earn it. Do you tend to townread people who townread you?

Dwlee99 replaces LicketyQuickety.

yeap that's what I was trying to say.

Wait, it just struck me. You are right, that is a glaring sign of inconsistence that I missed.

I will wait for the vote count before I switch.

VOTE: Eyes without a face

I think that’s E-2.

Now I have a feeling both main wagons are town.

UNVOTE: Eyes without a face

@Greeting, please explain (in great detail!) your thought progression over the course of these posts, and also your thought process on why you chose not to explain yourself when voting and unvoting. and for those following along at home, please note that there are zero greeting posts in between 590 and 714, and zero since then

I have been consistently townreading

HockeyFan

, and so I think my position on that slot has already been explained.

As for

Eyes without a face

, I'll refer starting from the point where I stopped explaining in detail what I was thinking of that slot. For me it's always been trying to see what's scummy and what's towny about them and see what feeling prevails. When

Frozen Angel

correctly pointed out that

Eyes without a face

is being inconsistent (506) I felt like this weighed him down significantly and was more or less convinced to vote them out.

But then, both slots decided to claim early.

HockeyFan

claimed a power role in 638.

Eyes without a face

made this post in response:

btw, I'm at E-2, so I'll guess I'll claim,

I'm a backup of a role

I'm not gonna out anymore info about it unless I'm forced to

You probably should be voting me fi this is true. I hard claim VT. No big deal if I am the lim if you have a better role than mine.

I feel like both of these claims should be the center of attention right now. While

HockeyFan

's claim could be argued on - as in, what kind of backup he could be or whether it was appropriate for him to claim when not being at E-1, I simply think that a scum does not make 641. This interaction led me to believe that both wagons are wrong and suck. Right now I'm directing my attention elsewhere. I'll soon make a readslist as I believe I can exclude a certain portion of players from suspicion and look for scum amongst the others.

As for why I didn't post - both personal and in-game reasons. In-game reason being me handling poorly 1v1 arguments when I'm not part of them. They just start boring me really quickly and I find myself only skimming them.

[Greeting]

the vast majority of town, including myself, will think twice about voting a claimed pr hence "I guess the correct play might be to give him a day or 2"

And it's why scum fakeclaim prs early game anyways.

Ofc you are claiming that town you will recklessly plow through a pr claim from a "scummy" player which I highly doubt you are telling the truth about b/c its bad town play. You are even going so far as to claim a backup isn't a pr. Which isn't true unless that's like a slip that he isn't actually a backup.

You also have a super convenient null read on him. So if he were flipped today then regardless of his flip you aren't connected. But then I think you said he's hard to read b/c he's "goofy" Hows that fence feel, Angel?

What I said and my stance is perfectly fine and valid.

Really? I haven't seen scum fakeclaiming a PR early game like... ever. In fact, I'd say I haven't seen a lot of scum fakeclaiming PRs at all.

Please clarify if you think

HockeyFan

is fakeclaiming and if so then where does this leave you voting

Frozen Angel

instead.

[Greeting]

Eyes feels town for the way hes trying to push the game elsewhere

+1

I feel like

Eyes without a face

's response to his wagon and the gamestate has been towny.

[Greeting]

Why do u TR frozen

what out of that interaction did u find towny

Frozen Angel

has been hunting for inconsistencies and looking for hardest data one could find Day 1.

Like I had said before, it's not in the scum interest to pick an uphill battle and take down something that's easy. Like your wagon. It's just super easy to vote out someone because they haven't been paying attention too much. Or because you find it hard to keep up with the game. It's an easy elim, I've been in that position before too, when the truth was I was just unmotivated to play or found too many slots hard to read. Town could've just said whatever and jumped on you or your counterwagon.

Frozen Angel

is clearly going in a direction of her own and I think that a scum has no reason to do that on MafiaScum. Here you have games where people can literally throw votes with no justification whatsoever and it's considered a valid playstyle (see Mini Normal 2257; Day 1). I'd say that facilitating this gameplay creates a favorable climate for scum to thrive in. Which is why I like this game - even just the two posts I made earlier today/yesterday evening where I didn't elaborate on my actions too much were called out.

Frozen Angel

's actions, even if her argument with

Nero Cain

was going in circles, are giving town an advantage and I don't see a reason for me to believe her actions aren't genuine.

[Greeting]

I simply think that a scum does not make 641

the fact that you think that is exactly why scum would do it

I can link you games where scum did it, since you seem to not have been lied to enough and thus are too trusting of humanity

Go ahead! I'll read them.

[Greeting]

Go ahead! I'll read them.

I regularly see scum try to act like they don't care if people vote them. it's such a common tactic it really just doesn't phase me anymore


in a mini normal I played a while back, here's flavor leaf (boonskies) self-voting as scum: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p9543318

a decent last-ditch effort, all things considered. he knew he was probably going down anyway (kind of like eyes knows he is now). though, it worked. GR was eliminated instead (though GR was also scum lol)


and here's eyes without nostrils himself! playing scum and very overdramatically threatening to self vote, "to help you all see the light": https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10911685

it did not work though, he was still eliminated day 1 that game

Oh, I've self-voted as town before several times when I wanted town to take my claims more seriously. So I would be cautious about calling that scum play.

The second game you've linked, however, does really give me a feeling similar to this game. Sigh.

[Greeting]

Updated read list:

Eyes without a face
HockeyFan
the worst 0verki11
Andante
Greeting
fireisredsir
Stephen A Smith arcadia
Frozen Angel T3
Umlaut Surye
Nero Cain UglyDuck
wavemode
Scorpious
Dwlee99 LicketyQuickety


Nero was 2nd bottom then Scorpious managed to outdo him, and then wave appeared frustrated about the way I'm driving things while Nero himself was ignoring me. Again, in my experience Nero is confrontational as both alignments, but he plays nice when not provoked as scum while he himself provokes others when he's town. As scum though when FoS'd he's outraged and would throw everything back at the aggressor while ignoring or ridiculing the read are the more common options for his town play

What's so towny that

Andante

did to deserve such a top spot in your readslist?

[Greeting]

Alright, I guess I'll just drop this list. The varying shades of green are townreads of Day 1. I feel like each player I had suspected in this game so far has given me something suggesting that they're

not

scum. I suppose I had a choice to keep going with either of them, but I'd just be going against my gut at this point.

wavemode

Andante
Dwlee99
the worst
Nero Cain
Umlaut
Scorpious

fireisredsir

Eyes without a face

Frozen Angel

Stephen A Smith

Greeting

HockeyFan

There might be a scum or even two amongst those coloured light green.

I'm just unable to spot them yet.

Those coloured a darker shade green are firmer townreads in my eyes and I will not be pursuing them today.

I can be swayed to vote anyone shaded white.

Andante

,

Dwlee99

or

Nero Cain

are preferable. I'm more hesitant on

Scorpious

, but he isn't off the table either.

VOTE: Nero Cain

@

Nero Cain

, I actually have read your ISO and it's really bad. My conclusion is that it's full of indecisiveness, throwing hooks and attempts to catch other players over mere words. I can totally see a scum making all of your posts.

[Greeting]

What's the record for largest amount of posts on Day 1 in a Mini Normal? We might be heading towards that.

[Greeting]

it's more of a gut read from me but greeting just feels like he is being too careful. he knows that he gets suspicion a lot and I think his presence in this game is intentionally trying to not step on any toes. i don't really expect to get a lim on him but I was just throwing it out there

I can't read myself, and I don't really see the need to read myself. It's a job for other players to do. I guess it would be nice not to get eliminated for bullshit, but I can accept that sometimes, even if town, I'm the best choice to be voted out. I don't see what my elimination would give town in this case though.

Sorry, but your gut read is wrong and I can sense a case of confirmation bias, which you've been exhibiting in the last few days. Just like butterchurn had confirmation bias over me in Newbie 2086.

As for my actions in late-game, I can't handle another day of

Frozen Angel

vs.

Nero Cain

battle royale. I think

Frozen Angel

is town, while

Nero Cain

has been throwing suspicion here and there and nothing really came out of it. I'm definitely okay with eliminating him, but not more than other candidates I mentioned in 1074.

the worst

is also looking increasingly bad and opportunistic to me in the last few days as they seem to not really care as to whom is being voted out after all.

[Greeting]

What's the record for largest amount of posts on Day 1 in a Mini Normal? We might be heading towards that.

I was in a game that reached page 94 on day 1

and then got re-rolled because of a mod error.

Goodness.

[Greeting]

Oh, I thought you were saying he "soften[ed] toward null"

after

stating a townread. Gotcha.

VOTE: Stephen A Smith until they convince me they're town.

Greeting, when did Stephen convince you he was town?

This post.

ya its just such a counterintuitive fakeclaim for d1

Explain why.

The goal of a fakeclaim is to get people to unvote(already successful).

He's also not forced to do any night actions that could reveal it's a fakeclaim via tracker/watcher/follower etc since he's a "backup"

He also can't be caught out as there's no idea what he's backing up.

If he claims universal backup and we have a dead vig he's kind of fucked when he can't make a vig shot happen for example.

Made me think about

HockeyFan

's claim more deeply. Even if I'm still choosing to believe it (or at least leave it for the time being), it is a very valid point and it points to

Stephen A Smith

being town.

Of course, Mr. ESPN is only a light green read.

[Greeting]

TBH,this would not be the first bad wagon I've seen Greeting receive recently, I'm reading them now..

To me it's just a repeat of Newbie 2086 in a new rendition (thankfully not a repeat of Mini Normal 2257 - that game was a trainwreck). I wouldn't say that

fireisredsir

has bad reasons for voting me, just like the reasons to vote me out in Newbie 2086 game weren't bad either. In that game, butterchurn, claimed that I haven't rolled scum in any of my games before so I'm bound to roll scum eventually and clung to what he perceived as my misguided logic and misrepresentations of what others' said. Here,

fireisredsir

says, it's a gutread based on supposedly me being more careful than usual. It was obviously a case of confirmation bias and paranoia coming from town and I think it's just nothing new in Mini Normal 2262.

What concerns me, however, is the speed in which

Nero Cain

and

the worst

followed. Both just jumped when my name surfaced and went in for the kill.

Truth is, I would have been more active if I didn't feel trumped by the hyperactivity of others to be fair. I guess at one point I just gave up and I'm waiting for Day 1 to end, hopefully with one of my picks eliminated.

[Greeting]

Oh, I thought you were saying he "soften[ed] toward null"

after

stating a townread. Gotcha.

VOTE: Stephen A Smith until they convince me they're town.

Greeting, when did Stephen convince you he was town?

This post.

[snip]

Made me think about

HockeyFan

's claim more deeply. Even if I'm still choosing to believe it (or at least leave it for the time being), it is a very valid point and it points to

Stephen A Smith

being town.

Of course, Mr. ESPN is only a light green read.

I can believe that's a reason to give them a few town points but it's not, like, something that would turn my read all the way around on someone I otherwise thought was scummy, which you did as of 228. Is there any more than that?

Obviously it's not a strong townread. But if the slot has said something that makes a lot more sense as town and progresses the game then I'd rather just leave them and focus on those slots that do not.

[Greeting]

Just like butterchurn had confirmation bias over me in Newbie 2086.

scum doesn't have confirmation bias

butterchurn wasn't scum in that game, but I don't expect you to be caring about that either.

Reinforcing my commitment to voting out

Nero Cain

.

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Greeting]

Hockey is probably maf if they refuse to look at anyone other than me here. ok uhh andante is gonna be gone again... class then stupid class meeting... I hate my group there, 0/10 would recommend. I see we're going for a 100 page day 1... go team! uhhhh yeah I'll be back later maybe... read wise, idk, if I'm being completely honest, I just really don't know...

HockeyFan

is just being newbie town or I'm strongly underestimating him.

[Greeting]

TBH,this would not be the first bad wagon I've seen Greeting receive recently, I'm reading them now..

To me it's just a repeat of Newbie 2086 in a new rendition (thankfully not a repeat of Mini Normal 2257 - that game was a trainwreck). I wouldn't say that

fireisredsir

has bad reasons for voting me, just like the reasons to vote me out in Newbie 2086 game weren't bad either. In that game, butterchurn, claimed that I haven't rolled scum in any of my games before so I'm bound to roll scum eventually and clung to what he perceived as my misguided logic and misrepresentations of what others' said. Here,

fireisredsir

says, it's a gutread based on supposedly me being more careful than usual. It was obviously a case of confirmation bias and paranoia coming from town and I think it's just nothing new in Mini Normal 2262.

What concerns me, however, is the speed in which

Nero Cain

and

the worst

followed. Both just jumped when my name surfaced and went in for the kill.

Truth is, I would have been more active if I didn't feel trumped by the hyperactivity of others to be fair. I guess at one point I just gave up and I'm waiting for Day 1 to end, hopefully with one of my picks eliminated.

I was the first one to mention you there but ok go off

Oh really? Where?

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: Nero does not need to be E-1 at this moment

He absolutely did. You made that wagon lose momentum and now a townie's at E-2. I feel like this was deliberate.

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: Nero does not need to be E-1 at this moment

He absolutely did. You made that wagon lose momentum and now a townie's at E-2. I feel like this was deliberate.

you kinda had me on your side until this. This is such a desperate soudning post.

Go ahead then, jump on.

[Greeting]

Or are you scared?

[Greeting]

you didn't read it did you

I think theres something really insincere about you claiming to be falling behind because you're overwhelmed, when all of your posting is kinda sheep tepid takes which you're presenting as your own

I also just tried to do a read list and realised I'd literally kill more than half of the plist without blinking lol

Oh, I skimmed the first half of your ISO and found nothing of the sort, so I knew this was not true.

[Greeting]

you didn't read it did you

I think theres something really insincere about you claiming to be falling behind because you're overwhelmed, when all of your posting is kinda sheep tepid takes which you're presenting as your own

I also just tried to do a read list and realised I'd literally kill more than half of the plist without blinking lol

Oh, I skimmed the first half of your ISO and found nothing of the sort, so I knew this was not true.

god forbid I developed reads

this is my issue with you
you're clearly not reading with intent to solve
all of your reads are sluggish and consensus
yet you still want to come off it looking like you're solving

your characterisation of your wagon doesn't make sense from someone who read the wagon. it makes perfect sense from someone who lazily checked the vc, and then applied their current reads to their expectation of the wagon.

Nice attempt to redirect the conversation.

Your issue which you clearly developed only when

fireisredsir

did. Before that you literally said nothing of me. Even right before voting me you said that you don't remember anything of me in 1357.

You little scumster. I hope town will be in a mood for fried duck Day 2.

[Greeting]

and just because the sharks are circling I'll clear up, I WAS ON YOUR SIDE AND STILL AM, JUST LESS..

What is your read of

Nero Cain

?

[Greeting]

and just because the sharks are circling I'll clear up, I WAS ON YOUR SIDE AND STILL AM, JUST LESS..

What is your read of

Nero Cain

?

I answered this before. I was convinced he was scum wehn he seemed to just give up on the pressure yesterday, I was ok with the lim on that.

But,then Wave hit us up with a read list that didnt change over 1000 posts and that just screamed scum to me,But I can't link the two. I'd so rather lynch wave over Nero,but if its closer to deadline and needed to secure. I would support a Nero lynch

I definitely find it concerning that

wavemode

comes to my defense right before my wagon gains momentum. As much as it's easy to miseliminate me same goes for getting towncred for townreading LHF.

But I think

Nero Cain

is a far bigger fish to fry.

My main issue with

Nero Cain

currently is that for most of the game he's been planting seeds of suspicion in posts like 723 among the ones where he barely named me as a potential elimination suspect. But he did so for other players too. Like in 65, 435 where he was going after

HockeyFan

. He will probably call it forming reads. I will call it pretending to do something useful for town and creating possible content to make the impression of consistency.

Then he went OMGUS after

Frozen Angel

, which might have been the most anti-town thing he's done in this game, my wagon included.

He only openly went after me when

fireisredsir

made their case.

And now he's audibly rallying support for my miselimination. All of this happening conveniently when he himself was nearing E-1.

It honestly blows my mind that he even resorted to analysing my half-RVS posts in 1539. That's how weak the case is. If that isn't opportunism I don't know what is.

[Greeting]

I keep wondering if you're just checked out town but the more I push you the more slimy you get and I just like..... don't feel wrong rn.......

Well, I have a choice to watch myself get eliminated quietly and have this bring nothing for town or act. I chose to at least speak of the two scummiest players who I feel are pushing the

Greeting

wagon. If I haven't made it clear it's you and

Nero Cain

.

[Greeting]

Oh and also, I do have a terrible picture of Britney Spears in my profile picture, but I'm male. I don't mind "they" nor do I find being called female offensive, but it just confuses me as to whether it is me being referred to or someone else.

[Greeting]

It honestly blows my mind that he even resorted to analysing my half-RVS posts in 1539. That's how weak the case is. If that isn't opportunism I don't know what is.

lol this is him explaining why your early posts don't deserve a TR from wavemode, not part of his case. you're not even reading the context of the posts for someone that you have been casing and voting?

If he's using it to try to sway

wavemode

into my miselimination then it is part of my case.

[Greeting]

still wrong. he's not trying to sway him (wave had just said he townread you and wouldn't vote for you), he's seeing if his reads hold up to questioning. if you were reading you would know this. you clearly just went through his ISO looking for anything you could pull out

Firstly, I didn't find that post by his ISO, but by reading the thread.

Secondly, that's your interpretation of what happened. I spoke of what it looked like to me.

And you're clearly having some sort of confirmation bias thing going here so I'll allow myself to not discuss it further.

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: Nero does not need to be E-1 at this moment

He absolutely did. You made that wagon lose momentum and

now a townie's at E-2

. I feel like this was deliberate.

????? wtf is the bolded LOL, saying that "now a townies at E-2" while simultaneously sring this same slot is ???

I'm talking about myself, not

Nero Cain

, who isn't at E-2 at the moment.

[Greeting]

I keep wondering if you're just checked out town but the more I push you the more slimy you get and I just like..... don't feel wrong rn.......

Well, I have a choice to watch myself get eliminated quietly and have this bring nothing for town or act. I chose to at least speak of the two scummiest players who I feel are pushing the

Greeting

wagon. If I haven't made it clear it's you and

Nero Cain

.

Sure, that's fine. The problem is the way you're doing that.

The way you're reacting is lacking in credibility or any indication that you've read the game. You aren't trying to understand where Nero and I are coming from (ftr, I don't really know where Nero is coming from on it either). You're trying to make us look bad, but in the process you're just giving away that you aren't really paying any attention to what's going on.

This comes across as p overt discrediting, and not solving. It's honestly exacerbated by the fact you clearly don't care about the circumstances around our votes & our reasoning for being on you - you just want to try and make us look bad for it.

Thanks for your advice. Duly noted.

[Greeting]

Oh and also, I do have a terrible picture of Britney Spears in my profile picture, but I'm male. I don't mind "they" nor do I find being called female offensive, but it just confuses me as to whether it is me being referred to or someone else.

"terrible picture of Britney Spears" is a contradiction in terms she is glorious
but noted, thank you.

Of course she's glorious, it's just a particularly bad picture that's become a meme, that's all. She's free from her jail cage, flourishing and I'm really happy for her. Glad she finally got out of that awful conservatorship.

[Greeting]

@the worst what changed between 1620, 1624 and 1633.

In 1624 u hinted that his play was "absurd", but were pushing him for most of today(irl) anyways, so why the quick switch?

i'm not feeling the greeting wagon rn

why? literally what changed

What changed is the scum duck realised my miselimination would incriminate her so they quietly moved away to the next thing that’s stealing the spotlight.

Willing to vote out

the worst

alongside

Nero Cain

.

[Greeting]

Fine, let’s make it less boring. I will switch back if necessary.

VOTE: the worst

[Greeting]

A duck walked up to the lemonade stand
And he said to the man running the stand
Hey! Bum bum bum, I rolled scum

[Greeting]

What changed is the scum duck realised my miselimination would incriminate her so they quietly moved away to the next thing that’s stealing the spotlight.

This is kind of a weird claim. Why would the duck suddenly realize this now after pushing you all this time?

I haven’t really been looking into the slot let alone suspecting it before

fireisredsir

started my wagon. Only now when I started speaking I made it look bad for

the worst

who now is quacking away.

If my miselim happens, this will might be the last impression I leave in this game.

[Greeting]

greeting is one of:
- profoundly confirmation biased and unable to change his reads;
- trying not to spew partners
lol

Really? As far as I remember I was going after numerous players before settling on you.

greeting, i literally started your wagon.

That might have been with your naked vote. But it’s

fireisredsir

who gave the reasoning and

Nero Cain

who gave the drive. You’ve been just sitting on it.

[Greeting]

Really? As far as I remember I was going after numerous players before settling on you.

"Going after" is self-serving; this is the first thing I've actually seen you putting any effort into

And once again you're redirecting the conversation from me pointing out that you claiming I have confirmation bias is just plain wrong and contradicted by the fact that I had suspected many players before you.

Confirmation bias is what

fireisredsir

is experiencing, following me around for about half of Day 1 and insisting on interpreting anything I said in a scummy way, ignoring any evidence pointing to the opposite. That's something I'm just not going to argue with, because in his mind even me trying to change his mind will probably be read as scummy.

My current view is that you're trying to make yourself look less bad after I came after you a few posts ago. I was close to being miselimmed (and still am) and then you withdrew right after I named you as one of my two prime suspects.

[Greeting]

Anyway, I'm off for the night.

[Greeting]

well he called himself LHF so maybe his plan is just to try to look like it

And you insist you’re not having confirmation bias? Laughable.

[Greeting]

Fantastic how the diversions

the worst

has been trying to create when discussing with me have been just ignored by everyone.

[Greeting]

have we all learned nothing from this game? Consistency is a town tell so sayeth Frozen. Never mind the fact the scum are the ones that will try to stay super consistent so they don't get called on being inconsistent.

but it's not like a 09' join date knows anything.

Yeah, let’s vote all the most consistently towny players in the game because they are all scum trying to look like that. Your 09’ joindate doesn’t make this look more credible, but more ridiculous.

[Greeting]

have we all learned nothing from this game? Consistency is a town tell so sayeth Frozen. Never mind the fact the scum are the ones that will try to stay super consistent so they don't get called on being inconsistent.

but it's not like a 09' join date knows anything.

Yeah, let’s vote all the most consistently towny players in the game because they are all scum trying to look like that. Your 09’ joindate doesn’t make this look more credible, but more ridiculous.

Nero's literally right

No, he’s literally not.

Literally anything in this game can be countered by saying that „this can just be good scumplay”. The argument can be applied to any possible objective town sign one exhibits.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Nero Cain

As promised. I am down to yeet him or the duck right now.

[Greeting]

Nero is right about saying "consistency" as repeating an action or keeping a read isn't a town tell

That is a blatant misrepresentation of what I said and explained clearly on multiple occasions of what I called a town tell however.

Consistancy with having a mind set of solving and evaluating and showing a consistent PATTERN of actions/behavior suggesting that you have that consistency (for solving the game) is a town tell

It's the ONLY town tell

no action is a town tell on its own.

Say it louder for the people in the back!

It's not a towntell if someone consistently tunnels another person for something. It's a towntell if someone's way of scum hunting is consistent.

And the argument that metagaming ruined this is, in my opinion, bs. Of all the games I've played metagaming has mostly been used to distract others from the obviously correct, to sow doubts about something there should be no doubts about.

Like in Newbie 2084, where MegAzumarill was trying to force feed town that driving a miselimination of a confirmed town PR is not something they would do as scum. That was utter bs.

My point is if Greeting was a VT (which they could have been from Scum!mEG'S PERSPECTIVE) it would be stupid to play like I did D2

[Greeting]

I would support a Nero or Greeting lim to secure..

not voting a town greeting last game got me limmed for TMI..

VC?

Are you trying to gamesolve or to self-preserve,

Scorpious

?

[Greeting]

yeet

Nero Cain [2]:

Umlaut, Frozen Angel

VOTE: Nero Cain

VOTE: Nero Cain

VOTE: Nero Cain

VOTE: Nero Cain

Frozen is very passionate about this... even though I think it's town, I'll go with you here, I know how it can be when you think you're on to something, and no one's listening, sorry Nero!! Frozen is the most passionate one here! I'd at least like to flip her top SR to then see where reads go afterwards.

VOTE: Nero

VOTE: Nero Cain

As promised. I am down to yeet him or the duck right now.

VOTE: Nero Cain

Nero has been overly eliminated. Now can we please vote scum?

I am voting scum right now. Can you please vote scum?

[Greeting]

It will flip green.

Now murder

Nero Cain

and

the worst

.

[Greeting]

VOTE: Nero Cain

VOTE: the worst

[Greeting]

Can we kill eyes next actually

No, you can murder

Nero Cain

.

Yes, I am going to spend the remaining time I have before my flip shoving this down your throats.

[Greeting]

Yeah

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Greeting]

Are you actually flipping town

Yes, and voting

Nero Cain

while doing that.

[Greeting]

HockeyFan

,

fireisredsir

,

Frozen Angel

are all town.

The next tier of green would probably be

Umlaut

. His

Andante

push wasn’t a bad idea. Certainly better than my wagon, it’s kinda a shame it didn’t caught on.

wavemode

is probably town, but I am definitely less certain about it. I hated how he came to defend me conveniently when I was on the chopping block. Sure, he was right about me being town, but the certainty was worrying.

I was torn on

Scorpious

up until the end, but I think that slot is more likely to be town than scum.

Nero Cain

and

the worst

are slimy liars.

Andante

just doesn’t give an f. Not sure if this is AI though.

Upon second thought, I wouldn’t mind yeeting

Eyes without a face

but only after

Nero Cain

and

the worst

.

Rest is null.

VOTE: the worst

[Greeting]

Andante just doesn’t give an f. Not sure if this is AI though.

lmaoo that puts me in a bottom tier? I think I'm top tier!

Oh you want a tiered list? You got it.

[Greeting]

Greeting
Frozen Angel
HockeyFan

Umlaut
fireisredsir
Scorpious
wavemode

Stephen A Smith
Dwlee99
Andante

Eyes without a face

the worst
Nero Cain

fireisredsir

actually dropped down a tier, because tunnelling a townie can be a valid scum strategy. My wagon was literally all they devoted their energy towards for most of Day 1 in spite of them claiming to consider other possibilities. Still more chance this is town than scum though.

Tbf, if it was someone else being yeeted out right now, I would just tunnel to death first the red players, then

Eyes without a face

and wished for the best. I'm almost dead confident in

Frozen Angel

and

HockeyFan

being town and the light greens just seem... unlikely.

Yeet out

the worst

and

Nero Cain

!

[Greeting]

no no it's ok!!! Why did yall even yeet Greeting? I didn't even sr him

Because, contrary to people claiming otherwise, it's super easy to miselim me. The hammer happened while I was asleep. It's honestly a very unlikely occurrence that I am awake right now as it's really early and the horrible weather outside woke me up.

As to why it was so easy, I was just there for the middle part of the game, couldn't stand the never ending argument and got somewhat active more towards the end.

In case you have forgotten yeet out

Nero Cain

and

the worst

!

Eyes without a face

is an alright candidate, but the two earlier players are better!

[Greeting]

Im just so happy greeting can't post after the flip

I can certainly see why you would be happy about it!

[Greeting]

duck isn't living to day 2 sooooo yall can go party in dead thread together

LOL

This game has just gotten messier by the minute

[Greeting]

Thanks for the game! In the dead thread we all kinda thought Andante was the last scum.