MT 2263: Web of Lies - Game Over

[MalcolmTucker]

Yo, thread moving fast, just catching up from overnight.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunn distrusts Bell. House and Tweetie softdefend by poking Dunn, neither pursue with a vote.

also Malcolm is scum VOTE: Malcolm

Is this due to reading into a replace-out or their behavior?

I've made like a single post so far since replacing in so I'd presume it's perhaps down to my predecessor? Either that or a cheeky vote for a new player to test how they react.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunn distrusts Bell. House and Tweetie softdefend by poking Dunn, neither pursue with a vote.

also Malcolm is scum VOTE: Malcolm

Is this due to reading into a replace-out or their behavior?

This is reading into PA's play in our hood

Can you outline exactly what you thought was particularly suspicious about it? I've taken a read through the hood and I'm not really getting the extent of the accusation as such.

[MalcolmTucker]

Did you even read what happened in our hood?

I have, and I'm not regarding it as particularly suspect to be honest, although the fact I know I'm not mafia will be clouding that no doubt.

[MalcolmTucker]

The main accusation appears to be around Medea asking the basis for how/why neighbourhoods are formed as they are. My answers may be muddled here as I'm still trying to get to grips with the various different components of this game from the POV of neighbourhoods/our professions while also catching up, but I don't see what is particularly bad about the question.

[MalcolmTucker]

outline exactly

Scum

Most people here don't have access to the hood. Why is Malcolm scum in your own words?

From reading back, the player I've replaced initially asked about neighbourhood distribution and how things were likely to be divvied up in terms of mafia vs town. Stephen found this suspicious, and the player I've replaced said they thought it was useful to gauge who'd reply to them or not. I'm really not finding anything particularly suspicious about it beyond an early game reach to pin some pressure on a player and see how they react as a result.

[MalcolmTucker]

I personally found Penguins posts to be fairly nai.

But Malcolm's response to the suspicions were a little meh

Ultimately just in a bit of a weird position as the replacement I guess. Personally don't find Medea's posts in the neighbourhood to be particularly suspicious knowing I'm town, but can't vouch for how they were playing it if others find their approach weird.

[MalcolmTucker]

particularly suspicious

ok who is writing these lines and why do they sound like they come out of a 1930s Agatha Christie Villain Monologue?

'Web of Lies' sounds like the title you'd expect from an Agathe Christie novel, just keeping with the theme I guess.

[MalcolmTucker]

Malcolm in particular seems to be approaching the game rather tentatively.

VOTE: Malcolm

Have I really been that tentative? I've outlined clearly why I don't think Medea's post in the neighbourhood should be viewed as particularly weird or suspicious. If you're talking about my throwaway joke then that could apply to pretty much the vast majority of the players so far. I tend to work my way into games gradually anyway, especially in the early stages when there's not really all that much to say unless someone has really stuck their foot in it.

[MalcolmTucker]

I just don't townread either one individually.

They're not vibing with the rest of the players. Kinda defensive for superficial/jokey poking.

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

I guess Dunnstral's posts could read as kinda mafia...wanting to know more about the reasoning behind a potential bandwagon before deciding to jump onto it, not going all in on me if they know I'm town, while also not hedging their bets against me either because I could be a useful early town elimination.

[MalcolmTucker]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

I don't think my reaction was particularly out of the ordinary or all that bizarre and this is a bit of a reach. An accusation was made against me, I reacted to it in turn and gave reasons as to why I didn't think it was a particularly problematic or suspect post from Medea. And we're at a fairly early point in the game where there's not much I'm going to be able to say to justify the fact I'm town beyond that, hence being flippant in a couple of posts.

Fact I'm a replacement is absolutely relevant too I reckon - in most cases you're arguing on your own merits from the start. Different game when you're coming in after it's started started and from a town POV explaining posts that were made by someone else.

[MalcolmTucker]

Anyway, some general thoughts so far.

Stephen's read on me has been constant so far but seems genuine, getting a bit of a town vibe. He's wrong but has at least backed up his reasoning.

House's interrogation of me reading as a bit all over the place in terms of the specific accusation being made. Of course someone who's been accused of being mafia by multiple players is going to be a bit tentative. Don't think the logic of me/Dunnstrum being teammates would work either even if we were mafia.

As mentioned above, Dunnstrum's approach to Stephen's interrogation of me seemed kinda mafia-like...trying to draw out info without either being eager to jump onto the bandwagon or back away from it.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunnstral sorry, dunno where Dunnstrum is coming from.

[MalcolmTucker]

What part of their reaction was suspicious and how do you think that reaction differs from how they would react if town?

I already said. Tentative approach looked like he deserved to be suspected.

Bullshitting around, laughing it off, whatever... that initial impression would have likely just went away.

It's like the first full day, half the posts so far are basically people making flippant jokes and brushing things off casually because we don't have all that much to go on so far. Indeed one of my own flippant jokes was a direct response to another flippant joke.

Stephen is also fairly determined to vote me out as it stands. If that ends up happening then so be it but it seems like the fairly sensible path for me to mount a defence when accusations are made to try and help the town down the line instead of just ignoring pressure being put on me.

[MalcolmTucker]

To be fair my defensiveness is probably coming from the fact that I've basically had another player suspecting me before I'd even managed to look at the thread due to a couple of fairly meh posts from the guy I'm replacing. It feels fairly natural to adopt a more defensive approach from that POV when I know I'm not mafia and have basically been perceived as one from the off. But aware that's the hand I've been dealt.

This, I don't agree with.

You had some superficial shade tossed on you based on pregame content. Big deal.

How you reacted to it looked like you deserved it.

I don't think my reaction was particularly out of the ordinary or all that bizarre and this is a bit of a reach. An accusation was made against me, I reacted to it in turn and gave reasons as to why I didn't think it was a particularly problematic or suspect post from Medea. And we're at a fairly early point in the game where there's not much I'm going to be able to say to justify the fact I'm town beyond that, hence being flippant in a couple of posts.

Fact I'm a replacement is absolutely relevant too I reckon - in most cases you're arguing on your own merits from the start. Different game when you're coming in after it's started started and from a town POV explaining posts that were made by someone else.

Yes. Your response was carefully reasoned out.

For a pregame, superficial, unfounded hunch.

... kinda my point.

I mean for Stephen it's clear much more than a hunch in his view, hence why I was defending myself. Your argument feels incredibly mixed up here...if I make a flippant joke in my defence that's suspect, if I instead try to mount a proper defence of myself then that's also suspect. Surely it can't be both? Weird line of questioning and kinda feels like someone potentially trying to bandwagon an initial accusation that's been made against me.

[MalcolmTucker]

Dunnstral sorry, dunno where Dunnstrum is coming from.

Dunnstrum = Dunnstral scum

I like it.

Meant to be evidently.

[MalcolmTucker]

Okay, but when that hunch is influencing how someone is actually voting/going to vote it feels perfectly reasonable to respond and refute said accusations. Again...your logic here dictates that you simultaneously seem to think it's weird I replied flippantly but also that I mounted a defence of myself. Which is it?

Likewise it's interesting you're suspecting my responses now while saying you don't actually think Stephen's original hunch was necessarily all that important. Just strikes me as incredibly inconsistent.

[MalcolmTucker]

it seems like the fairly sensible path for me to mount a defence when accusations are made to try and help the town down the line instead of just ignoring pressure being put on me.

If you were a PR, perhaps I could understand being paranoid of early suspicion snowballing and hurting town, but...

If that ends up happening then so be it

... I somehow doubt that's your primary concern.

So, again, how do you reckon I should have replied in this case? In a joking way or seriously? Or should I just have ignored Stephen's requests to justify said posts entirely? I'm really not sure where you're going with this because by your logic it was a no-win for me.

[MalcolmTucker]

Maybe a meme but a lot of odd wasted content that didn't achieve much in the end.

[MalcolmTucker]

Nah it's fair enough, I'm just grouchy in the morning and trying to parse what was going on.

[MalcolmTucker]

Please do not talk down to me.

Why you are so confident in your Malcolm scumread still confuses me.

You voting Dunnstral because it's popular while detailing that scumread gives me 2 ideas-
1. There's something beyond the PT that could justify your strength, like a TMI.
2. You are keeping your options on who to vote as open as you need.

I fail to see town motivation in both.

I also believe page 13 could've been deleted and very little about this game would've changed. Did you actually gain something from your "mason gambit"?

And to be quite honest, I find your 350 and 351 to be defensive and disparaging off of very little provocation.

Agreed, House was piling pressure on me for remarks much less flippant than that.

I understand the logic in diverting a vote off of me for now onto someone else but it's not as if I'm free of suspicion either. The goal at this stage is surely to push for who you preferably think should be eliminated, not just go with the most popular option. But Stephen may genuinely have a stronger read on Dunnstral than me as well, I just hadn't gotten that sense until now.

[MalcolmTucker]

Was your mafia read based on anything in particular or just not town vibes?

[MalcolmTucker]

VOTE: Malcom

Caught scum.

Need to check a thing.

I posted a misdirect while I was in my inventors neighbourhood thread with Flea to see how they'd react while I was under some pressure.

Rather bizarrely they continued posting in here afterwards and have only just seemingly decided to acknowlegde it now, which suggests to me they may have taken some time to talk it over with mafia pals.

Instead of actually questioning me as to the content of the misdirect as well they've directly come in here and decided to just vote for me straight away.

[MalcolmTucker]

Should add, it probably wasn't the wisest decision as it may have confused Flea had they been town and heaped unnecessary pressure onto myself but their response has been extremely odd insofar as how long they ignored the inventory thread is concerned which lends me to suspect they're suspicious.

[MalcolmTucker]

Sorry industry/inventor, mixed up, so many.