Newbie 2089 | Endgame

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why not post it now?

[NorwegianboyEE]

My first first post!

Hello everyone. I now realize I should have inned as a SE because I have a few games under my belt already...

Booo, i signed up to toy with newbies. Not to speak to SE’s.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: KittyTacky
For voting based on where someone is on the vote count.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Cop: either check people who you suspect or who are middling in your reads/hard to sort, or who have low content
Tracker: same but your action isn't 100% clearing and it's more of a toss-up
Doctor: protect players who seem likely to die by play or by claiming a role
Jailkeeper: you can do the same as with Doctor, or you can try to roleblock the kill. Keep in mind that this role roleblocks town prs if used to protect
Friendly Neighbor: Try to target someone you think is town and who isn't likely to die
Mason: avoid looking suspicious since you have extra knowledge so you don't have to claim early

Cop: I sort of agree, but i think that unless you think it will be impossible to eliminate an player you suspect without an guilty, basically you need to consider if you can eliminate this player with the help of other town players or not, if you can then it's an waste of an investigation as it will (fhopefully) flip scum and you can focus on checking a player that's in the "middle" so to say. Basically it is more important for the cop to check players that are likely to be an distraction/mislim if they aren't scum. So town can get a better view of the gamestate. Checking low content slots is an meh cop check imo. But if they do absolutely nothing and will likely keep being alive and that way, it could be an good check so they can be crossed off the checklist.
Tracker: Not exactly the same, you should be aware that if scum has 2 players alive then they can alternate which player does what. If one player doesn't perform an action then tracker might fake "clear" a scum slot. So think deeply about who you are targeting.
Doctor: Yep.
Jailkeeper: Yup.
FN: It doesn't really matter if you target scum, they have to confirm your role. (Although keep in mind jailkeeper could block your shot)
Mason: Don't be obvious, mafia can find out you and your partner easily and nightkill you both on following nights. Examples of tells mafia will use:
- You both townread each other for no good reason. Or act very in sync.
- You go too hard at distancing from each other and it looks obvious from that aspect.
Basically, just be natural in game thread. But feel free to discuss with your partner as much as you want and formulate some strategies if you got any good plans.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Newbieread: TistDaniel prob town because i don't expect newbie rolling mafia to ask for optimal town and PR play first thing in the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Newbieread: TistDaniel prob town because i don't expect newbie rolling mafia to ask for optimal town and PR play first thing in the game.

What if you're the doctor, the cop/tracker got killed, and you blocked a nightkill? I think in that circumstance, you should claim. As I see it, the doctor's main function is to protect cop/tracker if they claim, and once they're dead, you're unlikely to block the nightkill ever again, so if you've blocked it once, that's probably the most valuable information you'll ever be able to give town. Am I right on this?

You could claim, but the absolute best play is to crumb that you know the player you protected is town. That way you can both hopefully make it clear to the town that you did protect them but also hopefully not too obviously so that mafia figures it out and kills you. The best is to subtly hint it, and if you die the following night then town will hopefully either have understood it, or get's it once you have flipped doctor/jailkeeper.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is there ever a point where a cop should claim if they haven't detected scum? Actually no, that's obvious. If they've identified all innocents still alive, they should obviously claim, because the only players they haven't scanned will be scum. But what if they've identified all innocents left alive, minus one? Is that a good time to claim? It would confirm most of the remaining town players, which would be very advantageous to town, right?

I don't think this is a very normal circumstance where you have cleared everyone except one player. But yes you should obviously claim in this instance.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Almost every circumstance it is better to crumb than overtly claim, unless you're at a risk of being eliminated without openly claiming.

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is open setup thinking though. In a closed setup it might be better to claim at some points or have a mass claim and analyze if any claims don't make sense and seem like an likely mafia fake claim.
But that's advanced stuff.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Optimally you wouldn't even need to claim cop with a guilty on a player if you have one, just explain why they are scum and see if you can make it happen without the need to out you are a cop or tracker at all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pagetop!

[NorwegianboyEE]

ideally it's better not to claim, just make a case against them, and save your claim for if nobody is listening.

To add on to that.
If you claim early it will give an very easy out for the mafia partner to vote their own partner without looking suspicious, as it is "mechanically confirmed" anyways.
But if you post an case then you might see an scum partner attempting to defend their partner because they don't know if you have an guilty, and get much more valuable reactions that simply claiming immediately. Which can mean the difference between winning a game immediately or simply chopping off one mafia off the list but allowing the other one to win.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Aren’t you lucky it wasn’t Progo that replaced out.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I agree setup discussion is NAI.
I could be scum engaging in that talk for easy towncred. ListDaniel could be mafia doing so for avoiding the more difficult social part of thread engagement.
However in practise i think this is unlikely. I think any sort of talk that explains how the game works and the best way to play as town is likely done by players that have the best intentions of town in mind. So i do believe ListDaniel is likely of the town allignment here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s like theory VS reality.
In theory it should be NAI.
But i think it’s townie in this instance.

[NorwegianboyEE]

i signed up to toy with newbies

VOTE: NorwegianBoyEE

For subtly threatening to bully newbies through his Machiavellian maneuvers of cognitive excellence.

I would never!
How could i ever raise my hand against the cute developing players in such an cruel manner!

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Dunnstral
You gonna be more readable this game buddy?

Oh and for context. Dunnstral is one of those players that don’t react very strongly to any sort of pressure, which makes them hard to sort. So i expect that my vote there won’t do much. But it is an good starting point while there’s not much else to go on.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ProgoWoshua you gonna come in?
Don’t be shy! Come and say hi!
I’ve got tea and crackers setting up on the fly.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh you did post previously. My bad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ProgoWoshua you gonna come in?
Don’t be shy! Come and say hi!
I’ve got tea and crackers setting up on the fly.

I'm a little busy right now. But I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon.

You mean this? I'm not sure why they said pretend, I assume they are joking.

I meant "intend". Sorry.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ah Fwogcarf you were in Large Normal 228. I could swear i remembered you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What on earth is an conciousness of guilt slip and why would that ever happen.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nah to what.
Daniel seeming obvtown or the "slip"?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Whatever the terminology is, i think these "slips" rarely if ever indicates allignment.
Now i did find their correction a bit funny and awkward but i don’t seriously believe it’s indicative of scum, and if the player is scum then it’s likely an coincidence.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If it's a slip which I think it is. Then scum team is progo and norwegian. I didn't want to jump to conclusions but the moment I saw it, it clearly looks like scum talking to eahother and 1 of them accidentally posted in the main thread. Highly unfortunate tbh.

Norwegian's defence is making it seem more and like the case.

Lol.
Can you elaborate on what these posts of "scum clearly talking to each other are? And why?
Let me understand what ur seeing here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Let me elaborate that in all my life of playing mafia i’ve never seen scum make a "slip" like that, mainly because it’s not something that happens. Is it a defense when i can point to a long line of history that suggests my thought is right? It’s more that i’m sharing an fact.
They can be scum for other reasons, but for a ‘slip’? No.
Point to me any game that has ever happened where scum slips in that manner, and don’t give me some big judicial explanation of the court system and criminal mind, i’m talking mafia here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

As confirmed from above it’s just an language issue.
What you’re saying is that Progo accidentally wrote that he intended to only pretend to reply to someone.
What does that even mean? Why would you pretend to respond? What scum would "slip" to say that? First thing, no scum ever writes that they are going to pretend to reply to someone because that is an weird thought to have and the mind doesn’t work that way. Second, that’s just a really weird thing to say. Clearly the alternative explanation that they intended to type intend makes a lot of sense.
Whether it’s language or spelling error, anyone that thinks it isn’t are being completely bonkers!

[NorwegianboyEE]

And with that i’m going to vote here for what seems like an blatant attempt to push a bad case on Progo, and also

lining up mislims

by suggesting that i am partnered for saying it’s a dumb theory.
Unless you can prove to me your way of thinking makes sense to you i’m going to assume you’re scum that is pushing town in bad faith by going along with that theory and the "partnered" nonsense.
VOTE: OfMercia

[NorwegianboyEE]

ProgoWoshua you gonna come in?
Don’t be shy! Come and say hi!
I’ve got tea and crackers setting up on the fly.

I'm a little busy right now. But I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon.

So what you’re saying is you think Progo came in, assumed this was the scum thread and said "i will pretend to respond to Daniels strategy soon"?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not an bad theory i suppose. Although i know it’s wrong i can see why you could interpret it that way.
UNVOTE:
Ok i don’t think your thoughts are in bad faith or scummy anymore.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Progo what’s ur thoughts on game so far.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Read Progo's post again. How does "I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon" make any sense, especially since Progo doesn't seem like a caveman? I think missing a "will" is pretty unlikely. And what would pretending to respond to someone even entail? It's clear to me that it's a typo.

Yeah that’s what i tried to say but i suppose you put it a bit more "eloquently"

[NorwegianboyEE]

Something can make sense and still be very unlikely.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ofmercia and Progo don’t feel partnered from those very different reactions this page.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ofmercia and Frog*
Not progo

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’d like to hear more from Autodefenestrator and Dunnstral. They are the biggest black holes in my reads right now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I have solved some games on day 1. Sometimes it’s not that easy, but to say: "Meh day 1 pointless so nobody should care what we say" is blatantly anti-town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I remember playing a game called gun game on this site where i was scum, all the town instantly found each other and locktowned each other in like a couple hours and then voted scum.
I don't even know how you would survive that as scum.
Anyway this isn't very game revelant other than to say, if you're town plz contribute day 1. Don't excuse yourself that nothing useful happens anyway, if that is always the case then maybe the problem is with you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If cop claims cop, Mafia knows the cop is a threat. Masons, I still can't really see as a threat to mafia. They don't have a scan power. It's easier for me to believe that scum would let a confirmed mason live than a confirmed cop.

A mason might not be as obvious of an threat as they can not clear or guilty other players in the game, but they are confirmed town, and if they have good reads then other town are likely to sheep those reads from someone they know are trustworthy. It is also important to consider that if mafia get's a lot of mislims off then there are less of those players to hide behind, making it harder to not be found out by the remaining town players. And if those remaining town players are mason then the PoE get's even more tight. So mafia are very likely to see mason as a threat and kill them regardless.

[NorwegianboyEE]

meta - most effective tactics available.

By "town never fake claiming" we eliminate an avenue for scum to escape a lynch by fake claiming and getting immunity. For this to work town NEEDS to counter claim when a contradiction is noticed or the entire tactics is useless. These two conditions go hand in hand.

Since town knows town wouldn't fake claim, it's an easy way to catch a mafia member.

FYI, "lynch" as a term is being phased out from this site. You're recommended to use the alternative of "eliminate/lim" "lim/mislim" "Yeet/misyeet" "Elo/Melo" etc...

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway, as fun as it is to discuss strategy. I think focusing on finding mafia is our bigger priority right now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Frogsterking
Looking back on it, i think their "oh you slipped" stuff on ProgoWoshua was pretty opportunistic so i want to vote here. They unvote later of course, but that is after negative thread response so i don't give it very much credit.

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: Frogsterking
Looking back on it, i think their "oh you slipped" stuff on ProgoWoshua was pretty opportunistic so i want to vote here. They unvote later of course, but that is after negative thread response so i don't give it very much credit.

I also thought it was a slip, and that scum got really unfortunate. Was really hoping it wasn't the case lol.

Hmm this sounds like you had a pretty genuine thought and reaction you likely wouldn't have had if you were scum and knew it was a fake slip.
I got a townlean on Mercia based on this post.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I finished reading the isos. VOTE: KittyTacky,

FoS

Dunnstral for the partner by PoE.

Can you elaborate more on this post.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Both Tist and Norwe are probably town. I played with scum Norwe a while ago and he was... different. Like less talkative? Snarkier? I don't quite remember how but it was a different style.

*Snarky tone*

Pft… Oh yeah? Think i care about what you have to say about that??

[NorwegianboyEE]

Consistent or not consistent isn’t necesarilly indicative of town or scum.
Town players contradict themselves all the time. And players that are very consistent when they are usually not, may be scum.
Is consistency something you scum hunt with Frog?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Changing my town read of tist to scum. Post 148's word and post count is a bit too much, I just don't see the point other than to fill up posts. After a reread I'm getting lamist vibes.

VOTE: TistDaniel

I can see the perspective of "Lamistu post" but i think their posts ooze town outside of that, bith from tone and content. So eh, don’t see it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

God i make so many spelling mistakes on phone, my bad.

[NorwegianboyEE]

NorwegianboyEE, looks like you're townreading me, ofmercia, and your vote is on Frog for the Progo scandal. Have any thoughts on other players?

Maybe later, my brain feels fried.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Frogsterking (1) - fwogcarf
NorwegianboyEE (1) - AutoDefenestrator
ofmercia (1) - TistDaniel
TistDaniel (1) - ofmercia
Frogsterking (1) - NorwegianboyEE
KittyTacky (1) - Frogsterking

Not Voting (3) - ProgoWoshua, Dunnstral, KittyTacky

Wow. The VC is looking pretty undivided atm.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Divided*

[NorwegianboyEE]

Frogsterking (2) - fwogcarf, NorwegianboyEE
NorwegianboyEE (1) - AutoDefenestrator
ofmercia (1) - TistDaniel
TistDaniel (1) - ofmercia
KittyTacky (1) - Frogsterking

Not Voting (3) - ProgoWoshua, Dunnstral, KittyTacky

No wait there are two votes on Frog. Fixed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My belief is that Dunnstral is going to sit very quietly and not do much of anything.
But hey, open to being proved wrong.

[NorwegianboyEE]

All these long posts.
Whew, getting tired just looking at 'em.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think Tist's word count is attributable to him simply being a newbie and trying to be helpful. It would be an HMMMMM if an experienced player did it though.

He's not the average newbie.

Meaning what?

[NorwegianboyEE]

NorwegianboyEE: I think he's town for the exact same reason as KittyTacky. At first, he question Frogsterking's reasoning, and then states that he doesn't think I sliped. I can't find a problem with his reasons for his reads, so I think he's town.

This is a pretty uninteresting explanation for an townread.
Are you not paranoid i could be a good enough player to have my reads make sense as scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also here is an tip.
If you use the tag "post" after clicking "preview" before posting. You can place the "post" tag on your number that references a post, giving easy access to the post in question for those that read your post. This is infinitely better than having to search up each individual post you are talking about but not quoting yourself.

Example: 1

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think Tist's word count is attributable to him simply being a newbie and trying to be helpful. It would be an HMMMMM if an experienced player did it though.

He's not the average newbie.

Meaning what?

He's saying tist would be suspicious for that only if he were experienced. I disagree. I think it's within his range even if new.

Within range doesn't necessarily mean they are scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Do you not believe there are scummier players out there, or ones that are higher priority than ListDaniel right now?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Feeling like Kitty is town upon reread.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Very unsure on Fwogcarf whole game, but if i had a gun to my head i would say leantown.
Dunnstral/Frog/Autodenestrator my PoE maybe?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm not hiding from y'all. I tell you what I think when you ask, and far more often, I tell you what I think when you don't ask. Sometimes I'm wrong. Sometimes I'm stupid. But this is my 43rd post, if I'm counting correctly. So if I'm scum, you won't have a hard time finding slips. Personally, I'm in favor of eliminating someone who isn't so easy to read.

Ok so now that you brought this up.
It is of my opinion that players like you are better kept alive rather than being limmed day 1 bacause of "What if they are scum??" paranoia, so even if i were to find you suspicious these last pages (which i don't really) i probably wouldn't be too eager to lim you as you are an active player that shares their thoughts. And thus if you are town then mafia are very likely to nightkill you at some point anyways because they might fear that your analyzis might lead town to win the game if you aren't ridden off.
Thus it's a complete waste of time to eliminate a slot like yours when we have other slots that aren't going to do as much to make themselves readable, and will likely be kept alive by the scum if they are town as future miselimination bait. And kill the stronger town players that might hold their own in a fight.
So yes, i am strongly opposed to an Daniel lim today. And if that is where we are heading then i will never support it as an day 1 elimination.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So slots that are currently voting Daniel, please explain if you have other scumreads or if you see any other viable eliminations other than ListDaniel today, because unless y'all sidestep me, it's not gonna be our day 1 elim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So slots that are currently voting Daniel, please explain if you have other scumreads or if you see any other viable eliminations other than ListDaniel today, because unless y'all sidestep me, it's not gonna be our day 1 elim.

Do you have a read list? I'd be willing to sheep if it makes sense. Don't have a better scum read than tist.

Although I disagree on some players should have day 1 immunity regardless of alignment. But I can see what you mean by it.

If you're asking me to sort all players from townies to scummiest then i'm not confident enough to do that yet.
But i did post my preferred PoE lims today. One of Frogsterking/Dunnstral/Autodefenestrator. I to an bigger or lesser degree townread or don't scumread remaining slots.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyone has thoughts on Fwogcarf?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Frogs inactivity is bothering, and more than Dunnstral because i at least expected Frog to be more eqger to solve if he’s town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m in anlther game with them, but it’s not allowed to talk about ongoing games so i can’t say anything.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also feel like their activity is subpar and not very solvey.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Like keeping up an appearance y'know.
Is the vibe i get.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hey you’re welcome to type your own guide if you catch scum today Listdaniel.
xP

[NorwegianboyEE]

Still ok with my vote on Frog, and nothing much i feel the need to comment about. Except that i'm not all that sure of Mercia being scum, i don't really see most of their posts as showing scummy motivation. Sure they might 'look' shifty, but on second thought i'm not sure most of their actions truly come from someone with an scum allignment, they just say what's on their mind or don't try to act like holier than they are. So conclusion: town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ofmercia/kitty not w/w

Based on what?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ey, ok based on you being a much more readable slot than Dunnstral i'm gonna put you out of my PoE for now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Consistent or not consistent isn’t necesarilly indicative of town or scum.
Town players contradict themselves all the time. And players that are very consistent when they are usually not, may be scum.
Is consistency something you scum hunt with Frog?

This is one of those posts that is so easily faked with how often I've heard this exact phrase and wording.

Post faked? I stated a fact.
TF you talking about.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Reading previous games i’ve not been in myself never did much for me.
Reading for motivations in current game seems to me an far more useful tool in general.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Frognworth is who?

[NorwegianboyEE]

We ALL expected your survey. Give us survey or DIE.

[NorwegianboyEE]

…would you please?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Don’t see why you think Auto is limbait.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ofmercia is an newbie right? I don't think the assumption of: "Im gonna pretend to respond" being a scumslip is a big deal if you've never played as scum before.

[NorwegianboyEE]

UNVOTE:
Eh i guess we never get the survey thing.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My first first post!

Hello everyone. I now realize I should have inned as a SE because I have a few games under my belt already...

Cool we have an armada of SEs this game.

VOTE: yolohammer doesnt sound like a newbie name.

I have a supplemental D1 start method called the SSS (standard survey start). I think it might be better after the RVS is over rather than right at the start of the game. I'll probably post it around 10-12 pages in.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm so lost now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My townreads are Daniel, Mercia and tbh i think Strangematter has been pretty townie as well.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’ve been a bit mentally checked out by the news and situation in Europe lately, but i’ll catch up on this soon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alright gonna try to get back into this.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Strategy discussion - does no elimination on d1 help town or scum?

Scum.

By a mile.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alright gonna try to get back into this.

Post 440 is really helping me out in that regards, hehe.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So topic of the day, AutoDefenestrator.
ISO'd him. His only votes are me and then ListDaniel. From his POV if newbscum, probably the strongest town slots in the game. Both talk a lot, and one is especially wordy. Seems paranoid of me due to being "an experienced player", also mentions seeing no reason "Tistdaniel wouldn't act like this as mafia".
Tbh i can't see this as an agenda filled or scum way of posting. Therefore it is my opinion scum are more likely in the more neutral townish slots, blending in with the "accepted townreads".

I'm gonna vote here. VOTE: Fwogcarf

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee if you're on now, I did some poking and I think there are two scum in Strange/Auto/Kitty.

Ok, you gonna expand on that?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee if you're on now, I did some poking and I think there are two scum in Strange/Auto/Kitty.

Pedit:
If you reread my iso you might see I went down this path the last couple of days and made some discoveries.

Bit embarassing to admit but i'm not good with reading back on long ISO's. Auto worked because i just focused on his votes and meaning behind it, but can't you just like summarize it or something.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also it is my opinion that if you can't compress the reasoning behind your vote to something simple then it's probably a bad case.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think it's probable the average level of townplay in this game was really high and the scum just lurked out.

Hmmmm ehhh welll…
Maybe? Maybe i’m just a bit too enbittered by me experience but it’s usually never that easy lmao.

[NorwegianboyEE]

How i’d react? I would just get to work, trying to find out the path to victory.

[NorwegianboyEE]

But to get back to my reads.
I feel scum in this gamestate are likely the slots that prod and stay somewhat active, asking mild questions but not really doing anything. And i think Fwog and maybe also Kitty fit that bill. Mostly Fwog is bothering me though.
Brash slots that feel like they are trying to solve for real include Mercia and Auto so far.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Okay so hypothetically by this time your iso wouldn't look like Strange's current iso at all?

I don’t know.
But you did make me notice that Strange hasn’t really done much other than pointless bickering.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And not placed a vote yet.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Okay and if fwog and Kitty are both revealed as IC? Then what do you think is the game state?

Would look at Strange and Auto probably.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just gonna point out i still don't think Mercia is the best elim today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hm i believe it's time to agree on a consensus lim if deadline is that close.
Leading wagons are Ofmercia and AutoDefenestrator. I would be willing to put my vote on Auto. Though i'd vote anyone to get an elimination because i think that's better than ending day in no lim.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Auto gives us nothing imo. Vote kitty.

Worth a shot, i don't really townread them.
VOTE: Kitty

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is there something about your background you don't want us to know?

i don't feel like they relate to the game at all

i'm not going around sharing what i do for a living on a mafia game just for townie points, that's ridiculous

I used to work as an undercover spy with extensive knowledge of human psychology, lying, manipulation, bending people's will to suit my own purposes etc.
How about y?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Tisd and fwog any player you think is scum and gives info on elimimation? I could be wrong but I feel auto gives no leads if he flips green.

Norway do you think auto is a good elimination?

Ehhh, i don't really have a strong opinion on whether it is "objectively" a good elimination, but it's not my first choice at least.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Not Voting (2) - StrangeMatter, ProgoWoshua

You two gonna vote? What's your preferences today?

[NorwegianboyEE]

VOTE: AutoDefenstrator
That is E-1.

ONE MORE VOTE HAMMERS AND SEALS THE ELIMINATION!

(Sry, but i felt i should be very clear in a newbie game.)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Thank you!

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah he dead boyo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

probably flips town based on their reaction, but we'll see.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I realize. I thought Strange's vote has been on Auto, and she moved it off on the last page. I thought we were at E-2 when you cast your vote. I realize I was wrong.

You literally quoted a post where i stated it was E-1.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ehh you also quoted a vote count where it was clearly stated Strange wasn't voting at that point. But i suppose it's believable as human error, although a bit strange coming from you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So how’s the weather y’all.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Don’t impersonate da mod yo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

As far as i can see, Micc's last post was on Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:14 pm. So about 5 days ago.
As Micc does not seem to have any backup moderators this game is in limbo until he eventually returns, or some other moderator takes action.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I sent a pm to list moderator, hopefully he will resolve this if Micc does not return soon.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hope this isn't too bad of an first impression for the newbies, game moderators normally don't disappear like this haha.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm actually surprised they were the kill.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Dunno, but i was kinda suspicious of them at end of yesterday.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Tist did keep asking what the best play of a town PR in each setup is, so scum could have assumed he was a town PR too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think Kitty is one of the slots i find the most sus at the moment, but i'm gonna let the day develop a bit before i go hard on anything.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Do Day 1 mis-elimination wagons usually have scum in it?

I don't really like to think this way, because assumptions can be wrong, so to assume there "has" to be can lead to making wrong conclusions.
There were either 2 scum on wagon, 1 scum on wagon, or none. I don't mind hearing reasoning for why you believe each individual slot on the wagon are likely town or scum if you got them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Are ya dumbtelling son.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Wow. not that much happening.

VOTE: KittyTacky

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

It was mostly this post i didn't like.
As in you justified your vote with their "lack of an reaction" to hammer, but i don't see why that would be scum indicative?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'm watching guys

Am I still your top scum read?

My priority of elimination is ofmercia > Kitty > Strange > Everyone else

How willing r you to vote Kitty today.
I’m asking because i just don’t see why everyone think Mercia is scummy?
Can you try to sell me on why it’s a good lim in your opinion?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If we miselim today our PRs most likely become useless btw. I vote the PRs claim here and share night results. That will truly assist with POE, and maybe we even got scum

No.
What good is outing our PR's today?
We don't give scum that info.

[NorwegianboyEE]

We are absolutely not outing our PR's today.
Anything else?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Look Mercia, your stance is very typical for a newbie game.
But in fact, outing our PR's "to solve" is bad.
We need to solve without even considering they are in the game, who are trying to solve for real? Who are fake solving? That's what you need to pay attention to, like PR's shouldn't even matter to you unless you are scum or one yourself. In which case you probably wouldn't be asking for them to claim right now, yes you literally just outed yourself as a VT to the mafia. You have already lowered the PoE for them by posting this argument, then again you are scumread by a lot of people so even though i think you are town i highly doubt you would have ever been the nightkill anyway. Mafia likely wants you as an miselimination if you are town here. And it doesn't help that you post blatantly scum-sided arguments like "Our PR's should claim today".

[NorwegianboyEE]

I'd be open to PR's claiming next day if we don't limmed scum yet. And then it should be done in the manner where the towniest players will claim first, that way we can avoid the "scum can just fake claim PR" stuff you were talking about. I am completely against PR's claiming today for any reason unless they have vital information to share. And i'm going to assume they don't, in which case we should try to lim the scummiest players here. And i think that's including at least Kitty right now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

No wait, it's the other way around. The scummiest players should claim first, that way the towny players can call out their BS if they try anything funny.

[NorwegianboyEE]

PR's in the newbie game are like the training wheels of mafia.
Good in a pinch or to lower the PoE, but you need to solve without just abusing the fact that they are there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Whwt you're saying is instead of getting confirmed towns today you're going to risk it on a 50/50 tomorrow. A 50% chance for town to ouright lose the game. If town win the 50/50 tomorrow scum still have another chance.

It's not a 50/50.
I trust in my ability to recognize a true PR claim VS an fake PR claim. And it's really not as normal as you think it is for mafia to fake claim anyway. This setup is not good for fake claiming as mafia. It's in fact, extremely rare unless a scum player get's voted and fake claims a PR to out the other PR's and then likely get themselves killed but at least they'll know where to kill the next night.

[NorwegianboyEE]

First of all, if a mafia player fake claims a PR that's not in this setup, both the real PR's can claim and instantly guilty the scum player for making a really dumb fake claim. That is because this is an open setup and there are only finite amount of possibilities for town PR's that can be in this game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

So most mafia players are in fact, just going to claim Vanilla Town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

PR's in the newbie game are like the training wheels of mafia.
Good in a pinch or to lower the PoE, but you need to solve without just abusing the fact that they are there.

What? So you actually agree it's easier for town if they claim here but we should use our mafia detection skills as that is more honourable?

Honour has nothing to do with it.
It is only in the favour of mafia for us to claim our PR's today as that gives them an clear goal of which slots to kill or eventually roleblock if we are in setup A.
The most efficient and powerful town PR is one that is hidden, not one that has openly claimed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can you tell me your reads at the moment OfMercia. Who would you preferably eliminate today? Ignore town PR's for a sec and try to give me something i can work with.

[NorwegianboyEE]

PR's in the newbie game are like the training wheels of mafia.
Good in a pinch or to lower the PoE, but you need to solve without just abusing the fact that they are there.

What? So you actually agree it's easier for town if they claim here but we should use our mafia detection skills as that is more honourable?

Honour has nothing to do with it.
It is only in the favour of mafia for us to claim our PR's today as that gives them an clear goal of which slots to kill or eventually roleblock if we are in setup A.
The most efficient and powerful town PR is one that is hidden, not one that has openly claimed.

Remember this tomorrow when you have 3 town PRs in the game.

I don't like to be openly elitist like this, but don't you think i know what i'm talking about? I've played in probably close to 10 newbies at this point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Can you answer my question about your reads right now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And we do have something to work with, we have day 1 wagon on a slot that flipped town. Do you think Kitty's reasoning for voting Auto yesterday was good? Bad?
That is something you could be looking at.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also think Fwog could be sus, voting them and putting pressure on the slot. Or eventually on me if you scumread me (though i am town) could give us more info to solve the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i disagree that mafia might be hesistant to hammer there, i think Auto would have been an easy slot for Kitty to hammer as they had previously put them in their PoE so if they are scum, hammering them is easy.
I also feel their reasoning for wanting to kill Auto was a bit contrived, like saying "yeah you're being so scummy right now" but not really explaining why their reaction would be scum indicative, but hammering anyway. Read to me as possibly scum just trying to justify their hammer on a slot they knew would flip town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Frog i think Kitty has a higher chance of flipping scum than Mercia right now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i disagree that mafia might be hesistant to hammer there, i think Auto would have been an easy slot for Kitty to hammer as they had previously put them in their PoE so if they are scum, hammering them is easy.
I also feel their reasoning for wanting to kill Auto was a bit contrived, like saying "yeah you're being so scummy right now" but not really explaining why their reaction would be scum indicative, but hammering anyway. Read to me as possibly scum just trying to justify their hammer on a slot they knew would flip town.

To elaborate further:

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

Why is this an scummy play? What differentiates it from an town that has given up to apathy or stopped caring? In fact we get confirmed later that this is exactly what Auto is saying, but Kitty up and hammers them anyway.

It's sus that Auto isn't defending themself harder. As newbie town I'd kick and scream if I was wagoned this hard.

"Oh no, I'm innocent!"

?

Yeah, I'm innocent. Some people apparently 'feel' like I am playing scum-like, what do I do, argue over their feelings? If there was more substance, like in other games I've played, maybe I'd be making better cases. This is my first and last game on this site anyway.

Claim your role or I will hammer you within 2 hours.

Read again.

Somehow I missed it. Sorry, and sorry if you're town, but you've been acting very scummy.

VOTE: AutoDefenestrator HAMMER!.

Town is necessarily going to vote Auto because they believe the slot flips scum for an natural reason or because they genuinely believe the elimination is good for the game.
Kitty did not do so in such an manner. They hammered them with the reasoning that they were "playing scummy" but never elaborated why their play actually made them scummy in the first place, only stating the very surface level fact of "i am voting them because they are playing like scum" but not elaborating on the manner in which they believed the slot was playing as scum. Which begs the question of the legitimacy of their read in the first place.
Their reasoning for hammering Auto inadvertedly betrayed their mindset of one that was knowing of Auto flipping town. Which makes them mafia.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Frog i think Kitty has a higher chance of flipping scum than Mercia right now.

Then who is kitty's partner?

Haven't got that far, i'm busy casing Kitty themselves.
Don't care that much for pre-flip associations anyway.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why would it be Mercia? I townread them.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If we get more content from ProgoWoshua, StrangeMatter and Fwogcarf maybe i can tell you who it could possibly be.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actuallly i townread Progo for day 1 posting so my guess for partner would be in Strange/Fwogcarf.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also i'm just gonna point out that Mercia scumread Daniel yesterday. It is unlikely for Mercia to kill a slot they are setting up as an scumread if they were scum themselves.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I do not townread Fwogcarf for "dumbtelling".

[NorwegianboyEE]

KittyTacky's pronoun is an she btw.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Oh wait, maybe that's just my assumption. Forgive me if that was wrong Kitty. :/

[NorwegianboyEE]

Who would everyone have killed N1?

Would probably depend on who my partner would be in my case, so no easy answer.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Just place a vote.
This game is gonna be so slow if nobody does anything. -_-

[NorwegianboyEE]

Hmm i like the idea of Tist being killed by a player that thinks they were the towniest player, and hence would have referred to them as such.
It’s an good lead imo.
I’d be willing to vote Fwog today as i scumread them too.

(Oh and consolidating votes in mafia is important. If everyone spreads out their votes we’ll never get good town consensus on an elimination we agree on. Some players don’t realize that catching a scum player is only the first step, you also need to be charismatic and get followers that are willing to vote your scumread with you. So it’s good play what Mercia is doing right now)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Actually my stance might be confusing.
I’m basically saying that i do not townread bith Kitty and Fwog, so i’d be willing to vote them both. But i have an slight bias towards voting Kitty as i find them one of the scummiest players, but if most other players are interested in limming Fwogcarf i would very much give my support by placing my vote there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

In what way did you have an incorrect view of the gamestate?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I dont understand why people are scumreading Strange.

I’d like to see them more than anything.
Surely they’d be in prod range by now.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And now i’m paranoid Kitty could be scum voting an town Fwog.
:/
That or bussing.
Kitty explain ur thoughts please?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Why would you think they were masons?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Consider that there's an 7/9 chance of there not being masons in this setup. (Except scum would narrow it down more by knowing if it's setup A B or C)

[NorwegianboyEE]

I have some reasons for wanting to lim Fwog but i don't know if they are good reasons, and game would be in a pretty bad state if it flips town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like you (Frog) is town, Mercia is town. Progo i got a townlean on.
Leaving Fwog/Kitty/Strange

[NorwegianboyEE]

How possible is Fwog/Strange for the team?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like both scum in my PoE but i really don't want to kill the town in those 3 today.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think limming Fwog might be the best from optimal perspective because i feel like he is scummy and he did claim VT so there's no chance of outing a town PR by wagoning someone else today.
But i'd also wanna wait for more content from Strange/Kitty before committing.
So ghost vote on Fwog but i'm gonna stand by for a bit more.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think limming Fwog might be the best from optimal perspective because i feel like he is scummy and he did claim VT so there's no chance of outing a town PR by wagoning someone else today.
But i'd also wanna wait for more content from Strange/Kitty before committing.
So ghost vote on Fwog but i'm gonna stand by for a bit more.

Does he not claim pr tho?

This is pretty much WIFOM at it's finest.
You can say he claims VT because that is what you don't expect scum to do, hence wrongly townread scum. Or he is genuinely town that is just VT.
Can you tell the difference? If not then this is an bad argument to switch off imo.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

Do you think scum are pushing you now? I'd like for more than this as an reaction to E-1 tbh.

[NorwegianboyEE]

@ofmercia @kitty

If I share something to make you more confident in my gamesolve will you sheep my vote on Strange?

Been waiting since day 2 started already.

Okay: I think you and Kitty are Town Power Roles, Progo and Strange are scum.

Protip:
Don’t do this.

"I think you are the power roles"

[NorwegianboyEE]

Don’t get me wrong, i think Frog is town here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

100% a scum in Kitty/Strange based off of this. I have townreads for a good amount of people that I'm comfortable with based mainly off the votecount.

Plus the fact that I don't think Norwegian, Ofmercia, or Frogster make that Tist kill.

I’m ok with killing Kitty obviously.
If you town wanna vote there?

[NorwegianboyEE]

That's textbook definition of what they call a scum slip.

Oh no, not the scumslip stuff again…

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m not that confident in the flip anymore personally.

[NorwegianboyEE]

But i dun wanna >:(

[NorwegianboyEE]

I only thrive on conversations made in the present.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think this apathy in general probably points to this being an town elimination.
I suspect Kitty is scum here and on the wagon of Fwog as it was an viable elim away from them, but they haven’t really solved outside of that. Which is sus.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also dislike Progo’s "what are we waiting for?" I was clearly asking people to vote Kitty and trying to build a new wagon, but they acting like it was inevitable and we should just kill Fwog.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Though if this keeps up we might have to kill Fwog just to advance the game.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Your solve was Progo/Strange?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Tbh Progo is one of those awkward slots that to me i have felt was sorta town, but when thinking back on it i cannot recall why thinking so.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel pretty certain Mercia/Frog never flips scum so i should probably use that as my basis.
VOTE: Progowoshua
I’ll join you here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel pretty certain Mercia/Frog never flips scum so i should probably use that as my basis.
VOTE: Progowoshua
I’ll join you here.

Why not strange then. Since fwog voted there now.

Because Strange is more of an nothing slot, but i don’y see scum motivation. They just don’t do much, which can be town depending on the player. And in this case i don’t see it being very allignment indicative.
Progo tho feels a bit like they could be scum but tryna look town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Between Fwog/Progo i want Prog i think.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I completed one other game with Norwee and it was scum!Norwee. His play there resembled Strange's play in this game. I've been stunned by Norwee's play in this game because scum!Norwee didn't appear to be a remotely capable town player.

Ummm... rude!

[NorwegianboyEE]

Did you expect me to be an generic bad town player from that game when my goal was to literally kill the town. >:(

[NorwegianboyEE]

Anyway can we lim Progo already.

[NorwegianboyEE]

It's Frog that's suggesting an Progo/Strange team, not me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And who do you think I'm partnered with?

Does it matter?

[NorwegianboyEE]

I guess voting Strange is the only option?
Gonna hold out a bit more before deciding on this though. Deadline not just yet.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Deadline: 0 days, 1 hour, 39 minutes

Yeah this is getting danger close. Well let's see if Frog is right.
VOTE: Strangematter

[NorwegianboyEE]

ofmercia has been killed Night 2. They were a

Vanilla Townie

.

It is now Day 3. The deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2022-03-19 00:29:41).

Lmao what?
They hard told as VT here.
I would literally never shoot this slot if i was PR hunting.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Well that was easy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

No chance of an wrong cop result, if you are fake claiming mafia and Fwog flips town then you'd get eliminated tommorow anyways.
The only possible miss is if you are town that is fake claiming a cop result.
But i'm hoping you aren't someone to do that.

VOTE: Fwogcarf

[NorwegianboyEE]

And that gentlemen, is why we don't mass claim early. Scum shot VT twice and shot themselves in the foot.

GG.

[NorwegianboyEE]

ofmercia has been killed Night 2. They were a

Vanilla Townie

.

It is now Day 3. The deadline for Day 3 is in (expired on 2022-03-19 00:29:41).

Lmao what?
They hard told as VT here.
I would literally never shoot this slot if i was PR hunting.

Huh? I thought they were implying to be TPR.

Then you need to practice your PR hunting skills.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Mercia literally said "Can the PR's claim in a mass claim?"

[NorwegianboyEE]

From scums POV that's an hard VT claim right there.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah but when the argument is: "There is no other way to solve unless we get the PR's claimed today" then it's pretty dang obvious. At least in my opinion.
But oh well, it's not like i'm angry scum failed to catch on to that. That turned out very good for us in fact.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Legend has it this game is still ongoing to this day.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Is Micc ok?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You all do.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think i'd keep you alive for the WIFOM if i was scum and read you as not PR TistDaniel.
That would have been fun.