Newbie 2089 | Endgame

[ofmercia]

10-12 pages of RVS. Ouch. I vote you start it page 2.

[ofmercia]

@tits what made you choose progo as a case study?

[ofmercia]

ofmerica, do you have any thoughts on strategy? Either power roles, or just general scumhunting? I haven't heard much from you.

Claiming your town power role when you're about to be voted out is good. Fake claiming is bad under all circumstances, it'll will most likely get 2 town power roles out and guaranteed to confuse the rest of town who has no other info and no private way of discussing things. Mafia will always know which column we are in, so I disagree when you say they will get confused about being in column A or C in your example where it's viable for town to fake claim.

[ofmercia]

NorwegianboyEE:

Not especially. I've read 17 of Progo's posts, and it was all RVS stuff. I don't know which way he flipped, so I don't have any handle on his tells or anything.

I feel like all I really know about him is that 2087 was his first online game (though he played in person before that) and that he's never played League of Legends. (It came up as a discussion point in 2087.)

So ... I know almost as much about you as about him.

ofmerica:

My point is not that Mafia will be confused about whether we're in A or C.

Cop knows we're in A or C because those are A1 and C1 are the only setups that cop can appear. Mafia knows for sure whether we're in A or C, but they don't know whether it's 1, 2, or 3. A3 and C3 are both masons. Cop can claim mason, and Mafia doesn't know otherwise. If they're in A, it's A1, but Mafia thinks it's A3. If they're in C, it's C1, but Mafia thinks it's C3. Either way, it's a plausible lie to everyone except the doctor, if there is one, who knows for sure he's not in A3 or C3.

Thing about claiming mason is that there's no other power role which is worthy of killing more than mason anyway. So you're not buying yourself more time so even though you're the cop trying to hide, mafia have no reason to go night kill a better PR, and will most likely out the other power role who will and should counter claim you, since this legit town PR has no idea you are a different town PR fake claiming.

If they somehow can read your mind and know you're fake claiming as TOWN, it's still bad because now you open up a whole new way for scum to get away with fake claiming random power roles when about to be lynched. So for this setup, imo, NEVER fake claim as town. And always counter claim someone who has a direct contradiction to your power role.

[ofmercia]

ofmerica:

There's no other power role as worthy of killing as mason? I thought mason would be rather weak, since you have one confirmed town you can talk to, which feels like a pretty weak power to me, and once one of you gets killed, the other has no power at all. Perhaps I don't understand how to play mason?

As for my fakeclaim thoughts, I know what I'm saying is against current site meta. I'm just not sure that current site meta is correct, at least with regards to NewD3 games.

You're right, my fakeclaim thoughts do make it easier for mafia to fakeclaim, but not really *that* much easier. If you read my original post on it, I am saying that if a person doesn't explain their fakeclaim within one full game day, they're scum and should be lynched. So it's a short-term strategy at best for scum.

Also, it's not all that easy for scum to fakeclaim. While town can fakeclaim certain roles and scum won't know (such as, in my example, cop claiming to be mason) the reverse isn't true.

Look at the NewD3 setup table. If Mafia knows we're in A, and fakeclaims any role at all there's a 100% chance that at least one person knows they're lying, and a 66% chance that two people know. If Mafia knows we're in C, and they fakeclaim any role, there's a 100% chance somebody knows. The only time it's at all feasible for Mafia to fakeclaim is if we're in B. And they're still not guaranteed to be safe. They're definitely unsafe the instant another power role flips or claims.

If you bluff mafia into believing that you are mason instead of cop, there is no power role better for them to kill anyway (masons are a pair). So you're not delaying you getting night killed. Mafia would think there is a pair of masons. And they know one, might as well kill him, as there is no other threat of any other power role.

[ofmercia]

VOTE: Dunnstral
You gonna be more readable this game buddy?

Oh and for context. Dunnstral is one of those players that don’t react very strongly to any sort of pressure, which makes them hard to sort. So i expect that my vote there won’t do much. But it is an good starting point while there’s not much else to go on.

I'm not going out of my way to be unreadable

What do you think about post 62?

[ofmercia]

If it's a slip which I think it is. Then scum team is progo and norwegian. I didn't want to jump to conclusions but the moment I saw it, it clearly looks like scum talking to eahother and 1 of them accidentally posted in the main thread. Highly unfortunate tbh.

Norwegian's defence is making it seem more and like the case.

[ofmercia]

The two of you being in a scum thread discussing things. You ask him something in the main thread. He accidentally responds in the main thread.

[ofmercia]

At the time it was a highly suspicious post, the language defense does make sense though.

[ofmercia]

I'll hold out on voting for now but Frogsterking and ofmercia are both sus to me and ofmercia's push, in particular, seems a bit like a scum jumping onto a possible early wagon.

Read Progo's post again. How does "I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon" make any sense, especially since Progo doesn't seem like a caveman? I think missing a "will" is pretty unlikely. And what would pretending to respond to someone even entail? It's clear to me that it's a typo.

Are you saying what I pointed out doesn't make sense? I don't think I can be any clearer though, even repeating it to be clearer. Did you read it what I posted?

[ofmercia]

I'll hold out on voting for now but Frogsterking and ofmercia are both sus to me and ofmercia's push, in particular, seems a bit like a scum jumping onto a possible early wagon.

Read Progo's post again. How does "I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon" make any sense, especially since Progo doesn't seem like a caveman? I think missing a "will" is pretty unlikely. And what would pretending to respond to someone even entail? It's clear to me that it's a typo.

Are you saying what I pointed out doesn't make sense? I don't think I can be any clearer though, even repeating it to be clearer. Did you read it what I posted?

It doesn't make sense because I really, really don't see anyone saying that, phrased

that

way, in mafia chat. Again, how do you pretend to respond to someone?

Mafia need to use deception. Pretending is a form of deception. They can be open about that sort of thing with eachother.

[ofmercia]

But as I said, the language mistake progo posted makes sense.

[ofmercia]

How can you just assume it was a language error? That seems a bit tmi.

[ofmercia]

Not defending it. I accept it was a language error a while ago.

Didn't vote because I wanted to hear from progo first. He made his case and I accept my instant solve of the game was incorrect.

[ofmercia]

I have tistdan and norweigian as town atm. Rest null. Nothing really scummy atm but I'm looking closely.

[ofmercia]

@Dunnstral any town reads?

[ofmercia]

How can you just assume it was a language error? That seems a bit tmi.

not everything is a scumslip lol

Lol still, there's a difference in making assumptions and guesses to flat out knowing not only it was an error but the exact nature and cause of the error.

[ofmercia]

@tits - "Then they went on to say that it's a bad idea to claim mason (37, 42). I'm not going to say this is alignment-indicative though, because I think mafia would want cop to claim cop rather than mason. I can read what ofmerica said as either town-beneficial or scum-beneficial."

Why would mafia want cop to claim cop instead of mason? A fake claim has a high chance of counter claim which can throw the game on the spot for town (mafia would LOVE for a town PR to fake claim).
If the cop claims mason the cop gains nothing really, because as explained before scum now think there are a pair of masons and they know one of them, easy knight kill. This is actually low key baiting town PR's to allow fake claims which can only benefit scum.
I stand by any power role notices any fake claim or contradiction to their role. Please counter claim it.

[ofmercia]

night* not knight

[ofmercia]

meta - most effective tactics available.

By "town never fake claiming" we eliminate an avenue for scum to escape a lynch by fake claiming and getting immunity. For this to work town NEEDS to counter claim when a contradiction is noticed or the entire tactics is useless. These two conditions go hand in hand.

Since town knows town wouldn't fake claim, it's an easy way to catch a mafia member.

[ofmercia]

But this is the thing you want to talk about? Not the Progo case?

I waited for progo's response. Me asking him directly would not be me waiting for clarity. I asked someone else just to get some extra input on what I thought was a slip, my question to Dunnstral was as basic as it gets. Your claim that I was setting up shade by asking that isn't true. If I wanted to opportunistically join or start any wagons I would use what was already being setup, not an entirely new angle attacking two players, which if I was scum would be turning 2 townies against me.

I feel your case is wrong not necessarily from scum though, just overactive town trying extremely hard to find scum.

[ofmercia]

I think cops and mason are equally damaging threats to mafia. Masons claiming together would mean two confirmed town, and I highly doubt scum would pull a move like that.

Cop can't confirm themself as easily, but they can nail a scum. I would not expect Cop to live to the next day if that ended up happening unless it's exactly Town Cop and Town Doctor.

Masons are harder to kill than Cops because there's more of them.

What tist seems to think is that claiming mason as a cop will somehow allow mafia team to not night kill this power role.

Why would mafia not kill the mason????? They won't be like "oh it's just a mason need to find the cop" there is no cop or doctor etc. There are only a pair of masons and they know the mason. IT WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM NIGHT KILL. Sorry caps but I feel I'm on repeat here.

[ofmercia]

ofmerica, I think meta is more complex than just "the most effective tactics available". Meta is the most effective tactics *based on what is currently in common usage*. It's wrong to fake-clam as town power in current site meta, because current site meta says that town should immediately counterclaim.

If current site meta was that town should counterclaim late the following day, would it still be wrong? This still results in fake claims being eliminated, but it gives them the chance to use a power first. Perhaps it's not as good idea to claim mason as I had originally thought, but there's still a 50% chance that a cop who claims cop before scanning will never get to scan.

But it's ineffective to rely on a town player (the other power role) and actually the entire town to get incorrect information in the hopes of there is some bigger play happening that will somehow catch scum. Instead of a reliable, consistent and effective basic strat that does not allow for scum to take advantage of. It just opens up way too many scenarios for scum to abuse.

[ofmercia]

Yeah my bad, it's like the fifth time someone tells me. Pretty hard habit to shake.

[ofmercia]

I'll admit, I could be wrong. Part of where I was coming from originally was that I assumed that mafia would have more reasons behind the nightkill than just the power role. Let's say AutoDefenestrator claimed mason right now. He's saying he has no power to scan or block the nightkill. But we also know that it's his first game on the site, and several players are leaning on him for lurking too much. It seemed to me that mafia would be more likely to kill me, because I'm the most town-read player, I'm talking a lot, and maybe I got lucky with some of my reads. Meanwhile, a wagon might still form on AutoDefenestrator even if they do absolutely nothing about it.

Like I've said, I haven't played any games here before. Maybe mafia always kills power over someone troublesome in other ways. I've been assuming I'm probably going to be tonight's nightkill though.

Masons confirm 2 towns, much better for town instead of trusting a shaky day1 alignment feel. Eliming someone else in as the night kill would be bad for mafia. Since they are narrowing their own pool which is already very narrowed with 2 confirmed towns still alive later in the game.

[ofmercia]

VOTE: Frogsterking
Looking back on it, i think their "oh you slipped" stuff on ProgoWoshua was pretty opportunistic so i want to vote here. They unvote later of course, but that is after negative thread response so i don't give it very much credit.

I also thought it was a slip, and that scum got really unfortunate. Was really hoping it wasn't the case lol.

[ofmercia]

Yes we can do it.

What did you like about Norwee?

I like their reactions to the "slip" along with their engagement with ofmercia. I think their solving style is townie and I really like how they went through with their ofmercia vote. I also think that their prodding of frogo is townie because it's someone trying to get discussion started up.

Okay, do you remember how to read a players iso?

Can you find a player's iso in this game who seems to have the most consistent train of thought from post to post, and player who seems to have the least consistent train of thought from post to post?

Is this the survey strat?

[ofmercia]

Changing my town read of tist to scum. Post 148's word and post count is a bit too much, I just don't see the point other than to fill up posts. After a reread I'm getting lamist vibes.

VOTE: TistDaniel

[ofmercia]

I think Tist's word count is attributable to him simply being a newbie and trying to be helpful. It would be an HMMMMM if an experienced player did it though.

He's not the average newbie.

[ofmercia]

VOTE: Dunnstral activity read

also seems like volume tells will not work in this game

thank god honestly

I think he's lurking as town waiting for something.

[ofmercia]

Lol fix that post. I definitely didn't post that.

[ofmercia]

I think Tist's word count is attributable to him simply being a newbie and trying to be helpful. It would be an HMMMMM if an experienced player did it though.

He's not the average newbie.

Meaning what?

He's saying tist would be suspicious for that only if he were experienced. I disagree. I think it's within his range even if new.

[ofmercia]

So slots that are currently voting Daniel, please explain if you have other scumreads or if you see any other viable eliminations other than ListDaniel today, because unless y'all sidestep me, it's not gonna be our day 1 elim.

Do you have a read list? I'd be willing to sheep if it makes sense. Don't have a better scum read than tist.

Although I disagree on some players should have day 1 immunity regardless of alignment. But I can see what you mean by it.

[ofmercia]

VOTE: Dunnstral activity read

also seems like volume tells will not work in this game

thank god honestly

I think he's lurking as town waiting for something.

how does that make sense?

I asked him a few things. I don't feel he's hiding anything. But also feels as if he doesn't know what to do.

[ofmercia]

UNVOTE:

[ofmercia]

I think I've seen the most scummy behavior from ofmercia, but I think true scum would make more of an effort to hide scummy behavior. Not quite ready to townread them yet, but they are at least one of the more active players.

Ofmercia is new. Honestly their posts ping me more as a newbie scum than a scummy newbie, if that makes sense.

A new scum player would be even more likely to hide scum behavior. Open wolfing is not something normally seen from inexperienced players.

Not that I'm doing anything scummy though, tist is just wrong. And I do scum read him so I can see his early vote on me sticking no matter what. He is sort of building the case for a while already, changing facts to suit the case instead of changing the case to suit the facts.

But I won't vote him, since for a chance to hit mafia we will almost certainly need 5 town votes and multiple have shown an interest to give him day 1 immunity due to his activity regardless of alignment. So I'd rather not tunnel that direction.

[ofmercia]

When I was new I accidentally scummed it up as a

townie

, I don't think newbscum slipping up is implausible.

Which was tist's original point which you opposed.

[ofmercia]

Frogs inactivity is bothering, and more than Dunnstral because i at least expected Frog to be more eqger to solve if he’s town.

Have you played with frog before?

[ofmercia]

Why does activity = town?

[ofmercia]

Maybe, hopefully he'll post the survey thing soon.

What do you think about tits activity? Are you getting a solvy vibe?

To me the post count (which we already have available, and updated every post) and the word count and word per post stuff feels like filler. Can't find a reason for town to be trying to use fillers. Then there's also the part about it being ok for town to fake claim which would invite so much chaos and chances for scum to play a much easier game. I can't really see those as pro town.

But at a stage even I was town reading it just on pure volume. In detail I can't find the towniness. There is a LOT of content though so my take is just some highlights that stood out to me.

What stood out to you as town? (Or scum) is it all just nai?

[ofmercia]

I'm with fwog on this: I don't like how quiet Auto is. I don't think I need to rehash what I've said about lurking, because I feel like I've said it quite a lot recently.

I don't like how quiet Auto is, but I can also understand town having the views Auto has. I'm skeptical of how useful a lot of the scumhunting tactics people talk about actually are, especially on Day 1, so I can understand being reluctant of taking part in the process, particularly with how long day length is here. (I've read some games on other forums, and day length is 48 hours or so, so activity expectations are very different.)

I could believe Auto stepping forward and being more useful on Day 2. That said, I don't have so much faith in that outcome that I'd try to dissuade a wagon on him, or use a power on him tonight.

What are the scum hunting tactics people talk about? Which reminds me. Frog needs to post that SSS tactic he said he was going to post 2 days ago.

[ofmercia]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

[ofmercia]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

lmao. It's not quite RNG because scum tend to be scummy. Like you for example.

Actually proving me right. So keep going.

[ofmercia]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

not necessarily

you can definitely find someone to have been indicating your interpretation of scummy behavior and calling them out for it. If you think that they're scum, then go for it.

Yeah I said mostly not totally rng. I have been making votes on what I think is scummy.

[ofmercia]

Oh, I haven't read any of it, because it's pretty obvious the game is mostly rng especially day 1. So there's probably no reliable guide to catching scum. Especially with all the varying behaviors each game from both alignments.

lmao. It's not quite RNG because scum tend to be scummy. Like you for example.

Actually proving me right. So keep going.

This is still scum. Not much ofmercia said or did makes much sense as town. Jumped on someone for what is blatantly a language mistake, when people started piling up votes, attempts to deflect with "the game is RNG".

What? We were discussing something totally different. This is a big stretch lol. The two aren't even related at all. This has to be scum.

VOTE: kittytacky

[ofmercia]

You realize there are people actually reading the thread right? You need to try harder if you wanna misrep this badly.

[ofmercia]

Tist unvoted and progo voted AFTER. So when I made the post it was the least pressure I've been under or being pushed.

Do you know what deflecting means? My vote accusing progo and norwegian as being a scum team was way back and I already explained my thought process of that. How or why would I deflect in a completely different discussion talking about strategy and usefulness of scum guides?

[ofmercia]

Ok so I have 1 vote and 1 player scum reading me. I then decide to deflect this heavy pressure - I force tist to make a discussion of strategy where I can deflect your vote on me many pages back with an rng argument lol. Nice one. Makes perfect sense.

[ofmercia]

It's page 13 and Frogsterking is now officially overdue on his SSS.

Last post was Saturday, not looking promising.

[ofmercia]

Regardless of if I'm right about ofmercia or not, Frogster is also rising on my scum radar, due to massive lurking and not following through on the survey. Those are my main two scumreads, and I'm 90% sure there's a scum between those two.

Is frog afk or lurking/delaying the survey? If he is afk that's a suspicious reason for a scum read.

[ofmercia]

…would you please?

Yes! Do you agree/disagree with my scum reads?

I disagree with your scumreads because you scumread me and I know I am town and fwogcarf didn't say anything that pinged my scum radar. Auto pings me more as a scummy townie limbait, yeah. As for Dunnstral, they and their replacement are aggressively null to me.

You not understanding doesn't mean poorly explained. Norwegian seems to understand after 2 posts. Yet after trying to explain further for 3 or 4 posts you're still lost, or acting lost.

[ofmercia]

I apologize for my lurking. I think I've kept fairly well read on this game.

I think frognworth and KittyTacky are likely to flip scum. VOTE: frognworth I'm down to wagon either.

I think Dunnstral/StrangeMatters and AutoDefennstrel are the limbait slots who are are likely to be easy pushes who flip town.

I think Progo put enough effort into their posts that it's sort of making his life difficult as scum so I think he's town. I think Norwee's vote on me and paranoia of my slot is likely to come from town and some of his posts were too helpful I think for if he were playing scum. And I also am not paranoid of Tist who I think is town.

Then I think ofmercia's play is slightly more aggressive than the other players at this table which can sometimes lead to getting his slot scum read, and in my experience, kind of like the limbait slots, he's likely to flip town.

So then I just have frognworth and KittyTacky left and I read through their isos and I see hanging back, pushing easy slots while staying on the sidelanes, posting just enough to get slightly townread. I'm somewhat confident there's at least 1 scum between KittyTacky and frognworth.

1. Ofmercia's aggression isn't the problem by itself, aggressive towns win games. The problem is that the aggression was inane and extremely poorly explained when questioned.
2. Where's your survey my man?

This was supposed to be quoted.

[ofmercia]

…would you please?

Yes! Do you agree/disagree with my scum reads?

I disagree with your scumreads because you scumread me and I know I am town and fwogcarf didn't say anything that pinged my scum radar. Auto pings me more as a scummy townie limbait, yeah. As for Dunnstral, they and their replacement are aggressively null to me.

You not understanding doesn't mean poorly explained. Norwegian seems to understand after 2 posts. Yet after trying to explain further for 3 or 4 posts you're still lost, or acting lost.

*keeps evading my actual question* I don't know why Norwe thinks it makes sense, again how on Earth do you

pretend to respond

?

I'll try to spell it out again, but I feel you will still say I'm avoiding or ignoring or not making sense or whatever because it isn't genuine.
Firstly scum have a private thread where they communicate.

Norwegian asks progo where he is, progo responds that he is busy and will pretend to answer in the thread.

This to me looked like scum talking and progo posting in the wrong thread. Scum will most surely pretend to answer posts as they need to hide scum agenda.

I know you're just going to say I'm avoiding again but this is as clear as I can get. If you still don't understand something this simple I cannot help you unfortunately.

[ofmercia]

Norwegian asks progo where he is, progo responds that he is busy and will pretend to answer in the thread.

This to me looked like scum talking and progo posting in the wrong thread. Scum will most surely pretend to answer posts as they need to hide scum agenda.

I know you're just going to say I'm avoiding again but this is as clear as I can get. If you still don't understand something this simple I cannot help you unfortunately.

ProgoWoshua you gonna come in?
Don’t be shy! Come and say hi!
I’ve got tea and crackers setting up on the fly.

I'm a little busy right now. But I pretend to respond to Daniel's strategy soon.

You mean this? I'm not sure why they said pretend, I assume they are joking.

I meant "intend". Sorry.

I'm not sure I'm following the logic behind what you're saying here @ofmercia. Exactly what about that makes it likely to you that progo posted in the wrong thread? Because every time I read it, I agree with what others have said that it reads like a grammar mistake over an actual slip.

I agree he meant intend instead of pretend. I'm saying what I thought it was before he posted what it actually was.

[ofmercia]

I really dislike how fwog and Kitty feel like they put just enough effort in to get slightly town read, and how they're both presently posed with their outted scum reads to sheep whichever limbait town goes for EoD.

I'm pretty sure kitty is scum.

[ofmercia]

Believing someone's explanation is not backing down. I feel scum would have more reasons they cannot be wrong, and thus more likely to try to force a case. This is related to that consistency point that was mentioned earlier. As in what kitty is doing with my progo vote, it feels forced, he cannot change his stance because he isn't hunting for scum he's fabricating scum.

[ofmercia]

Ofmercia do you still scumread Progo?

No, the explanation he gave made sense. I don't see enough activity and posts to scum or town read him. Null.

[ofmercia]

Strategy discussion - does no elimination on d1 help town or scum?

[ofmercia]

Nice post tisdaniel (440). I have a few questions though.

"ofmercia, as I said, has played a very defensive game. I haven't seen him focused on attacking anyone. There's obviously tension between him and Kitty, and him and Frog, so it seems unlikely that they're scum together. It also seems unlikely that ofmercia would be scum with Progo."

I understand the posting between myself and kitty can be seen as tension and defending. But what gave you the idea I have tension with frog? I don't remember any such exchange. I can only speak for myself in this but I feel you get a lot wrong in this post like my tension with frog or that I haven't made any "attacks" (others need to verify that with their own experience and what was written about them). But I like the idea behind finding who is ignoring who etc, it expresses a desire to look at the bigger picture and solve the game.

[ofmercia]

ofmercia: I'm sorry, you're absolutely right about Frog. I remember I added that as an afterthought, way after I finished the section about you, and I was working on Frog. To be honest, I'm not sure why I added it. Maybe I meant to add it on Kitty, forgetting that I'd already said that about Kitty.

I think I have to hold my ground on you being defensive. Your strongest attack was on Progo, who you didn't vote, you didn't question, and you didn't even use his name or say there was something suspicious about him in your original post about him. Ever since then, if I recall correctly, your only scumreads and your only votes have been on me and Kitty, and only after we'd put pressure on you for the Progo controversy. Am I wrong?

I think you're right about being mostly on the defensive, I recall having to keep repeat things a lot. I also recall being called aggressive so I think maybe I have not been ALL defensive but definitely had to defend myself a lot, won't deny that.

[ofmercia]

ofmercia do you have a sales background?

Lol no why?

[ofmercia]

No. Is this the survey?

[ofmercia]

It wasn't my focus just yet.

[ofmercia]

It wasn't my focus just yet.

Okay. When did you become focused on Kitty?

When they voted me initially I didn't give it much attention, but it was a constant attack in that angle and then a flat out incorrect take that I was using rng as an argument to deflect pressure off myself. I had been in the least amount of pressure at that point and my post about rng was a completely separate discussion about strategy and guides for catching scum with tist. Instead of addressing the incorrect claim in any way they went on to repeat that I was ignoring a question that I tried answering about 10 times now but still ignoring according to kitty.

[ofmercia]

Is there any reason you wouldn't be willing to die in Strange's place, Kitty?

What is your scum tell on strange, can you simplify it?

[ofmercia]

Hope you get enough votes, it's kinda close to end of day.

[ofmercia]

Not going to ask for why strange voted me or try to defend it, it's too close to end of day and no elimination is worse than a town elimination according to majority so we'll see what develops from this. Hopefully there is enough info to catch a scum day 2.

[ofmercia]

*frog not strange

[ofmercia]

Auto gives us nothing imo. Vote kitty.

[ofmercia]

First question was asking if I was in performance art or sales. That to me felt like he was calling my posts acting/a prrformance so we could see the direction he was taking it. Voting me next day confirms this.

[ofmercia]

Is there something about your background you don't want us to know?

i don't feel like they relate to the game at all

i'm not going around sharing what i do for a living on a mafia game just for townie points, that's ridiculous

I used to work as an undercover spy with extensive knowledge of human psychology, lying, manipulation, bending people's will to suit my own purposes etc.
How about y?

This makes you mafia, no it's not rng which role you got your background says otherwise lol.

[ofmercia]

Vote kitty or me.

[ofmercia]

Tisd and fwog any player you think is scum and gives info on elimimation? I could be wrong but I feel auto gives no leads if he flips green.

Norway do you think auto is a good elimination?

[ofmercia]

you're not even a top wagon so I don't get why you'd want people to vote for you

The deadline is kinda close if we factor sleep patterns etc we basically have no time left. But majority ((norway, fwog, tisd so far) are looking at auto and I don't want to be end game the one that saved a red player.

VOTE: AutoDefenestrator

[ofmercia]

Depends more on the player than exp level.

[ofmercia]

What happened to micc?

[ofmercia]

WHAT HAPPENED TO MICC?

[ofmercia]

Do scum have factional kills on this site or can only one person perform the kill?

wait nvm if there can be two mafia goons in the setup then there's gotta be a factional kill option

Pretty sure there isn't a factional kill option.

[ofmercia]

That would make town power roles pointless since they won't be able to detect anything or very overpowered if a town power role gets a guilty on a player if they used this faction kill option. Weird to even bring up faction kill. You're trying to look town by feigning ignorance on scum mechanics?

[ofmercia]

But then of course there is factional kill. Not sure what no factional kill even means. Anyway lets wait for everyone to check in for day 2.

[ofmercia]

But then of course there is factional kill. Not sure what no factional kill even means. Anyway lets wait for everyone to check in for day 2.

Factional kill = select someone of your faction to kill someone else. That's it.

What is no factional kill?

[ofmercia]

I'm watching guys

Am I still your top scum read?

[ofmercia]

If we miselim today our PRs most likely become useless btw. I vote the PRs claim here and share night results. That will truly assist with POE, and maybe we even got scum

[ofmercia]

People always claim PRs are so important but never use them until it's too late.

[ofmercia]

We should. We have nothing to work with and PRs will give us something. With a miselim today PRs will almost always be useless tomorrow, and can even be faked by mafia and counter claimed without room for error. Today mafia cannot fake claim or counter claim without sacrificing one of themselves.

[ofmercia]

Only downside is if we are in column C we have a 2/9 chance of there only being 1 town PR. Which could complicate things for town as they'll be in the dark.

[ofmercia]

I like that playstyle but the fact is we've been given power roles. We should use them. Not allow scum to use them against us.

[ofmercia]

Lol if we haven't limmed scum by tomorrow PR cannot safely claim. It'll get countered or mafia will even claim first. Just because you allow your town read to go first doesn't do anything to that fact. Whwt you're saying is instead of getting confirmed towns today you're going to risk it on a 50/50 tomorrow. A 50% chance for town to ouright lose the game. If town win the 50/50 tomorrow scum still have another chance.

[ofmercia]

I get hiding it from scum on day 1 so that they don't get night killed and can use their role. They have used their role. It most likely has done jakc shit, and if they caught 1 then great for town, unless they hide this critical info for some reason.

The game is at stake here, it's much more useful to get confirmed towns than have, for example, a doctor that is hiding and protects a scum player at night, or protects someone who isnt the target. Then in the last day when it's do or die looks shady because hasnt been able to protect anyone and can be counter claimed freely.

[ofmercia]

So most mafia players are in fact, just going to claim Vanilla Town.

It's extremely hard for mafia to counter/fake claim on day 2. It's almost impossible. Day 3 (if there're two left) it's extremely easy, and will force a town to win a 50/50 for the chance to continue.

[ofmercia]

PR's in the newbie game are like the training wheels of mafia.
Good in a pinch or to lower the PoE, but you need to solve without just abusing the fact that they are there.

What? So you actually agree it's easier for town if they claim here but we should use our mafia detection skills as that is more honourable?

[ofmercia]

I guarantee that if we do not claim here today we will lose.

[ofmercia]

PR's in the newbie game are like the training wheels of mafia.
Good in a pinch or to lower the PoE, but you need to solve without just abusing the fact that they are there.

What? So you actually agree it's easier for town if they claim here but we should use our mafia detection skills as that is more honourable?

Honour has nothing to do with it.
It is only in the favour of mafia for us to claim our PR's today as that gives them an clear goal of which slots to kill or eventually roleblock if we are in setup A.
The most efficient and powerful town PR is one that is hidden, not one that has openly claimed.

Remember this tomorrow when you have 3 town PRs in the game.

[ofmercia]

I mean it's just a numbers game, there is, like I said, a 2/9 chance we are in one of the 9 slots that has only 1 town power role, in which case we are screwed if we PR claim today, and I would be horribly wrong requesting a claim. But I think 7/9 are good odds.

[ofmercia]

Can you tell me your reads at the moment OfMercia. Who would you preferably eliminate today? Ignore town PR's for a sec and try to give me something i can work with.

I think it's unlikely that town pulled a 5 vote on that day 1 wagon. I feel there's scum on there. Fwog or you. I know it's not tisdanial and I know it's not me. I don't think it's kitty. Mafia might be hesitant to hammer there.

[ofmercia]

I also think Fwog could be sus, voting them and putting pressure on the slot. Or eventually on me if you scumread me (though i am town) could give us more info to solve the game.

I think you're town, I will need to look into fwog and kitty.

[ofmercia]

Tisd and fwog any player you think is scum and gives info on elimimation? I could be wrong but I feel auto gives no leads if he flips green.

Norway do you think auto is a good elimination?

I still think Auto is scum here but you are right in terms of info.

All he does if he flips red is spew Tist town imo.

You flipping red would spew Kitty town and vice versa, but I feel like scum would want to get rid of the more talkative players first instead of the lowposting ones.

I think tist being night killed has something to do with this. Either they follow fwogs thought process or trying to frame him.

[ofmercia]

NorwegianboyEE (town) - generally good town play, or I've been pocketed
ProgoWoshua (town) - their day 1 vote on me and defense of auto felt like someone genuinely trying to solve

StrangeMatter (null town) - don't think scum brings up a day 1 accusation of a scumtell to try and understand where they could have just left it behind, but also not getting any town vibes, not much to go on

Frogsterking (null scum) - I don't feel a genuine need to solve, just feels like theatre and even a bit of open wolfing at times

fwogcarf (scum) - day 1 has very opportunistic votes in inactives slots like dunstral and auto, combined with PoE on the day 1 wagon this slot I feel is red, very high chance
KittyTacky (scum) - don't have a good feeling with their day 1 play and agree with norway about the hammer

[ofmercia]

I'll wait and see where this is going

Your second attempt at soft claim.

[ofmercia]

Wait that part of my profile removed itself for some reason? Huh? I'll fix that.

I remember it said he.

[ofmercia]

VOTE: fwogcarf

[ofmercia]

It's fwog though. Day 1 votes and reads are both almost solely based on activity. This shows a weariness to make/commit to an actual read (since mafia have to pretend to make scum reads) in fear of looking like an act.

Also this night kill is fwog's way of:
1. Progressing the mafia objective.
2. Eliminating the player he thinks will be most town.
3. Getting rid of a player that is suspicious of him.

1. He starts day 2 off with 615, the objective here is for mafia to look busy and hope town will start looking into why tist was killed. But throws me in there as the scum read of tist but doesn't outright case me for it, just shade in hopes to get a town bite. I don't think he gets any bites from town in 615 but tries again in 717. His interest in the night kill stems from him carrying it out and giving it a lot of thought and investment to just be swept under the rug.

Has Ofmercia scum, Fwog weaker scum, Norweigan Town (Places votes on the first two)

Townleaned Kitty, made an association with Progo/StrangeMatter being t/w (No read on StrangeMatter)

Voted FrogsterKing on inactivity

StrangeMatter felt more town

Scumreads Auto, townleans fwog

puts together some worlds

I can see ofmercia making a fearkill here although i'm pretty sure it would not be that obvious

You guys think the Tist kill was made to provide us with little info?

Or something along those lines.

Seeing a lot of "we don't have a lot to work with" (throwing myself into this as well because I am genuinely lost on who the team could be.)

2. Eliminating the player he thought was the most town, in 543 we can see his thought process, no one else thought this.

Tisd and fwog any player you think is scum and gives info on elimimation? I could be wrong but I feel auto gives no leads if he flips green.

Norway do you think auto is a good elimination?

I still think Auto is scum here but you are right in terms of info.

All he does if he flips red is spew Tist town imo.

You flipping red would spew Kitty town and vice versa, but I feel like scum would want to get rid of the more talkative players first instead of the lowposting ones.

3. Getting rid of a player that is suspicious of him. In 615 above you can see fwog done the research for me and found out that tist was scum reading him day 1.

[ofmercia]

I can see it being kitty, looking at their interactions I can see them as a pair.

[ofmercia]

Their = fwog + kitty

[ofmercia]

I town read progo and norway, so if progo wants to support norway with kitty I'll join that.

Need to see more from strange.

Frog not sure - reads and cases are all over the place. In one post they'll RVS somone even while being page 20 something in the thread, then next post threaten to death tunnel a completely different player. Then in the next post change vote to a third completely different player with no explanation or reasoning. Not sure what to make of that.

Kitty + fwog scum read.

[ofmercia]

And now i’m paranoid Kitty could be scum voting an town Fwog.
:/
That or bussing.
Kitty explain ur thoughts please?

Looking at kitty and fwog interactions before my case on fwog shows they are a team imo. After seeing the way the fwog wagon played out, scum have no option but to bus here, as defending would be bad since it looks like a certain fwog hammer. The kitty vote makes sense from a kitty + fwog team.

[ofmercia]

Fwog is my vote today. Kitty/frog as last.

[ofmercia]

Fwog + frog doesn't feel right to me. Fwog + kitty makes perfect sense the way day 2 unfolded.

[ofmercia]

@strange so after all the inactivity you have nothing to say about a scum read you had being at -1. Sad actually. In fact seems you have nothing to say at all besides claim you're not scum in 3 posts. Where is the assistance to town here? Where is the reads. At least give what you think about the wagon or who you want to vote.

[ofmercia]

i think he is more likely to flip scum than most people, yes.

@strange so after all the inactivity you have nothing to say about a scum read you had being at -1. Sad actually. In fact seems you have nothing to say at all besides claim you're not scum in 3 posts. Where is the assistance to town here? Where is the reads. At least give what you think about the wagon or who you want to vote.

Pardon? I know I haven't been contributing but it is far too easy to point finger and say "X's not contributing they're scum." which scum has and will take advantage of.

I literally also threw down my reads at the moment on who I thought is scummy earlier, before those three posts, which are still relevant to me now.

I'm wondering, did you really not read anything of what I actually had to say?

Plus I have been scumhunting, and I'm at that point where it does make sense to look at opportunity which I've seen from Kitty/Frogster/Fwog (less sure about this one).

You admit to not contributing, so don't blame me for trying to get you to contribute. Also I didn't say anything about alignment.

I saw your post about your 3 reads but the problem is your reasoning is somewhere back in feb which I don't feel like going back to as a lot has happened since then. Was hoping for something more current.

[ofmercia]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

I don't see the awful part. If you're scum I can see the reasoning why you think that. But it's not awful play from your side, it's just that I fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your alignment) caught your exact play in action and exposed it. It happens.

[ofmercia]

There are partner tells on this page of Progo + Strange. Progo has a poor read progression on Strange and claims to be willing to push Strange while not directing much shade heavily in that direction. Then, on this page Progo asks strange a question (a very easy question) and Strange completely ignores Progo.

Progo claims to be willing to execute Strange but I think there's a reasonable chance Progo is lying and the solve is actually Progo + Strange.

I say we call Progo on his bluff and flip the vote onto Strange. I think if Progo tries to resist a Strange wagon now that he's claimed he's willing to change the execution then Progo is caught lying about Strange and I FoS both of them for the team.

Strange answered the question from progo.

[ofmercia]

By the way I think if fwog is actually scum then their partner is modt likely Strange, that's part of the reason I like this vote.

I can see strange + fwog. I do think it's kitty + fwog though.

[ofmercia]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

Do you think scum are pushing you now? I'd like for more than this as an reaction to E-1 tbh.

Both of em are probably on my wagon

It'd be a bad play if one/none weren't

Why would it be a bad play? It'd be pretty good actually if scum managed to not be on your wagon or just 1. Since you'd flip town.

Yes I agree it would be a bad play if scum weren't on your wagon, if you flipped scum. Which is why kitty joined. He's your partner isn't he?

[ofmercia]

@ofmercia @kitty

If I share something to make you more confident in my gamesolve will you sheep my vote on Strange?

Been waiting since day 2 started already.

[ofmercia]

@ofmercia @kitty

If I share something to make you more confident in my gamesolve will you sheep my vote on Strange?

Been waiting since day 2 started already.

Okay: I think you and Kitty are Town Power Roles, Progo and Strange are scum.

Is it you and fwog as scum team? With kitty's vote looking scummy you decided the play was to openly defend your partner?

[ofmercia]

Easier said than done, especially since no one hinted any. Besides maybe tist himself. There's also the chance of only 1 PR in the game.

What makes you think progo is scum?

[ofmercia]

Feel free to grill me about my play because your decision about whether to trust me is very important

I assumed you had something big that would gain my confidence for a sheep. Not just a speculation on who you think the power roles are.

[ofmercia]

Votecount 2.05

fwogcarf

(3): ofmercia, ProgoWoshua, KittyTacky

KittyTacky

(1): NorwegianboyEE

Not Voting

(3): Frogsterking, StrangeMatter, fwogcarf

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2022-03-09 11:21:56)

nevermind disregard my last statement

Both scum would likely not hop on my wagon, I thought I had five votes for some reason

5 votes. Uhm.

[ofmercia]

I want to say before i get limmed

I'm so sorry for my god awful play, i'm usually better than this.

Do you think scum are pushing you now? I'd like for more than this as an reaction to E-1 tbh.

Both of em are probably on my wagon

It'd be a bad play if one/none weren't

Why would it be a bad play? It'd be pretty good actually if scum managed to not be on your wagon or just 1. Since you'd flip town.

Yes I agree it would be a bad play if scum weren't on your wagon, if you flipped scum. Which is why kitty joined. He's your partner isn't he?

Why I think it's a bad play for both scum to be on my wagon is because my town flip makes the game easyish to solve from there fmpov. It's a pool of three, so you pick apart which one has the weakest case against me and go from there (at least that's what I would do).

So you either have one scum on the wagon (which is most likely) or none at all, and that makes the game exponentially harder to solve.

(Also this response comes from the knowledge of not having as many votes as I thought I did so my opinion has changed from that question, sorry if I made it super confusing)

Norway asked you if you thought scum were on your wagon, and you said yes they are, it'd be a bad play if scum weren't.

Now your answer seems to have changed to yes they are on your wagon and it's a bad play from them.

[ofmercia]

In order from most to least significant explanations of my Progo read:

1) Progo's activity levels maintaining consistency up to this point indicate continued or elevated interest in this situation of the game; a situation where at least half the Town is bickering, clueless and/or inactive and the conclusion of the day seems inevitable and unpromising. This is the type of situation where activity tells invert start to become inverted because town are becoming less motivated and scum are becoming motivated.

2) Progo's read on my slot from D1 to now is contrived and lacking in depth. I believe Progo's interpretations of my play is a response to the outted reads of the players Progo is planning to leave alive. Progo believes you and Kitty will be less likely to trust me because of my accusations and attempts to solve the game, and became more emboldened once Kitty made it clear today they would hammer me over Strange if given the choice.
I believe if players were less trusting of Norwee or Kitty for example, Progo would have outted with different reads which are convenient to that situation.

I have more reasons but I need to switch to my laptop because this is taking too long without a keyboard.

This shows me you're town, I can see the reasoning from your POV. I just disagree about your solve.

[ofmercia]

In order from most to least significant explanations of my Progo read:

1) Progo's activity levels maintaining consistency up to this point indicate continued or elevated interest in this situation of the game; a situation where at least half the Town is bickering, clueless and/or inactive and the conclusion of the day seems inevitable and unpromising. This is the type of situation where activity tells invert start to become inverted because town are becoming less motivated and scum are becoming motivated.

2) Progo's read on my slot from D1 to now is contrived and lacking in depth. I believe Progo's interpretations of my play is a response to the outted reads of the players Progo is planning to leave alive. Progo believes you and Kitty will be less likely to trust me because of my accusations and attempts to solve the game, and became more emboldened once Kitty made it clear today they would hammer me over Strange if given the choice.
I believe if players were less trusting of Norwee or Kitty for example, Progo would have outted with different reads which are convenient to that situation.

I have more reasons but I need to switch to my laptop because this is taking too long without a keyboard.

This shows me you're town, I can see the reasoning from your POV. I just disagree about your solve.

I've switched to a keyboard but I won't out my other explanations because it seems their existence is redundant.

There is an urgency for you to reconsider your solve now ofmercia because Kitty's townread of Strange will cost town the game. Once the player count drops to 5 with 2 scum it's unlikely you will win even with strong play.

Yeah you understand the urgency, so why are you trying to change the wagon. Fwog is showing great valor here in this last ditch defense but he's having to resort to lies like mistaking 3 votes, with a big blue vote count, with 5 votes (a hammer btw). Is that actually believable to you?

[ofmercia]

In order from most to least significant explanations of my Progo read:

1) Progo's activity levels maintaining consistency up to this point indicate continued or elevated interest in this situation of the game; a situation where at least half the Town is bickering, clueless and/or inactive and the conclusion of the day seems inevitable and unpromising. This is the type of situation where activity tells invert start to become inverted because town are becoming less motivated and scum are becoming motivated.

2) Progo's read on my slot from D1 to now is contrived and lacking in depth. I believe Progo's interpretations of my play is a response to the outted reads of the players Progo is planning to leave alive. Progo believes you and Kitty will be less likely to trust me because of my accusations and attempts to solve the game, and became more emboldened once Kitty made it clear today they would hammer me over Strange if given the choice.
I believe if players were less trusting of Norwee or Kitty for example, Progo would have outted with different reads which are convenient to that situation.

I have more reasons but I need to switch to my laptop because this is taking too long without a keyboard.

This shows me you're town, I can see the reasoning from your POV. I just disagree about your solve.

I've switched to a keyboard but I won't out my other explanations because it seems their existence is redundant.

There is an urgency for you to reconsider your solve now ofmercia because Kitty's townread of Strange will cost town the game. Once the player count drops to 5 with 2 scum it's unlikely you will win even with strong play.

Yeah you understand the urgency, so why are you trying to change the wagon. Fwog is showing great valor here in this last ditch defense but he's having to resort to lies like mistaking 3 votes, with a big blue vote count, with 5 votes (a hammer btw). Is that actually believable to you?

Yes fwog's show of valor is townie, it's very difficult to motivate yourself to convince another human of a downright lie when the group is already accusing you of lying. This is why Strange is struggling to even attempt to do anything in this game, and that's with far less pressure than fwog is experiencing.

Fwog's mistakes are NAI in my opinion, this is a game where it's easy to make mistakes. I think fwog is trying and doing the right thing. I don't see a scum agenda in the inconsistencies like fwog made with the amount of players required to make a hammer, there's no benefit to the scum team of convincing town of a lie like that.

This wasn't his initial reaction though. Go read his initial reaction and how it developed to this and the scum agenda becomes clear. The wagon reads as savable to me and scum do not want to lose 1 here, he has to try and save it. Maybe you advised him in the scum thread? Then in this defense it's not just "mistakes", it's unbelievable mistakes. 3 votes instead of 5 isn't believable to me. In the astronomically rare chance he did make a mistake I apologise but claiming he thought it was 5 votes seems like a cover to change a stance on something he posted.

[ofmercia]

Also Frog's been scumreading/pushing me for the majority of today

we're not partners

You posted that you town read him. Shouldn't that be enough? What does you're not partners have to do with anything? Are you claiming to be a different alignment to him? But you town read him, that means you're...?

[ofmercia]

In what world does a town player post "we're not partners"?

[ofmercia]

That's textbook definition of what they call a scum slip.

[ofmercia]

Interaction/partner reads are important as well because they can help shape your townreads together

That's the majority of my reads as they stand right now because 1. Interactions show they can't be partners. 2. Someone's pressure on someone else suggests they can't be partners. And the most loose reasoning for it would be two or more people working collectively to get a solve.

Agreed, interactions are good. Just never seen a player making interaction reads of themself and another player. As a town trying to solve it's usually a given that you are not partners with any other player. Would be extremely pointless for town players to start making interaction/partner reads about themselves.

[ofmercia]

Also Frog's been scumreading/pushing me for the majority of today

we're not partners

I checked day 2, not a single push or scum read towards you from frogster today. He has been defending you, that's all I see.

[ofmercia]

It's fwog + kitty. Fwog + frog is just what you make it look like. Not sure what's happening but your late take on the game is the thing that'll make town lose, imo.

You mention ego but you're claiming to have solved the game with reads that only sort of make sense from your POV, after making rapid insanity votes all over the place the first what, 3 weeks of this game?

2 days left you come with a brand new impulse solve that we're all supposed to hop onto or we're throwing. From what I see most have been seeing the fwog case as more plausible. So isn't your ego in the way and not mine?

[ofmercia]

That's fine I don't think you're ruining anything. Was just responding to your accusations of my reads. Heck you might even be right about progo + strange. Who knows for sure. All I know I have are my reads and what I see/feel is happening.

I would sheep as I did day 1 when I didn't even want to elim auto but voted anyway. But it's getting to the point of less room for error here and I am quite confident fwog is scum. We'll get the partner later (there are a lot of options tbh).

I felt strongly about fwog being red even before he started seriously defending the wagon, but the wagon defense is hella sloppy. For example this page top (850). It's just completely false, I checked multiple times and cannot find you scumreading or pushing fwog at all today or anything related to a push for the entire day 2.

[ofmercia]

I'm doubtful on the Strange tunneling but the Progo push makes even less sense to me. Progo has been so transparently town to me all game.

Yes I believe you are the mark for scum. And I understand why you townread Progo.

Why

do you townread Strange??

This is a good catch, and I believe it can maybe make you see strange being town and kitty being scum that knows strange is town. Which supports my fwog + kitty theory.

[ofmercia]

Don’t get me wrong, i think Frog is town here.

Same.

[ofmercia]

I feel pretty certain Mercia/Frog never flips scum so i should probably use that as my basis.
VOTE: Progowoshua
I’ll join you here.

Why not strange then. Since fwog voted there now.

[ofmercia]

Process of elimination. I believe both scum is in [Frog, fwog, Strange]. The only other possibility is that fwog is reverse bussing Strange.

Frog is town, it's fwog/strange/kitty

[ofmercia]

I'm trying to imagine a world where 75

clears

Kitty. It's even more difficult to imagine than Kitty hard-townreading Strange.

The problem is 75 is not clearing kitty from scum, but clearing an accusation instead.

Look at it like this. In 216, progo says kitty's defense on his intend/pretend slip comes in at post 86 (which is late and already been dissolved) so

look like it could be scum waiting

.

Then progo shows 75 which

clears kitty from the underlined above accusation.

[ofmercia]

Process of elimination. I believe both scum is in [Frog, fwog, Strange]. The only other possibility is that fwog is reverse bussing Strange.

Frog is town, it's fwog/strange/kitty

I think he knows dude, he doesn't care. He unironically has townread Kitty all game for 75. Like by saying he's using PoE he's saying he's sure of Frog+fwog because of 75 which indicates Progo has an agenda.

Fwog IS red here. Your strong defense of him is making it look like you're the partner so I get where he's coming from. But to me I can see you vs progo being TvT.

[ofmercia]

@frog good point.

I had completely forgotten about that whole thing in Day 1. You're right, Frog + fwog is unthinkable.

@progo so now that you can't see frog + fwog who do you think it is?

[ofmercia]

Agreed, there just isn't enough for that strong of a kitty town read.

[ofmercia]

I also dislike Progo’s "what are we waiting for?" I was clearly asking people to vote Kitty and trying to build a new wagon, but they acting like it was inevitable and we should just kill Fwog.

I'm not voting Kitty today.

Why not? I think he's pairable with any viable scumread and hasn't done anything that screams town himself.

[ofmercia]

Progo if you're town you need to do a better job explaining your read on Kitty because if it's a genuine read you didn't make it look like one.

But then again you think kitty is a PR with not much, if any, explanation at all so not sure what this says about alignment.

[ofmercia]

930 makes it actually look like progo + strange. Frog might just be a genius.

[ofmercia]

930 makes it actually look like progo + strange. Frog might just be a genius.

I'll bite. Please vote Strange with me.

Strange had the deciding vote to break the two wagons tied at 3 each. Shifting a wagon onto strange will give them the 3 fwog wagon votes. Strange won't self hammer, so you're potentially eliming yourself by trying a strange wagon.

[ofmercia]

930 makes it actually look like progo + strange. Frog might just be a genius.

I'll bite. Please vote Strange with me.

Strange had the deciding vote to break the two wagons tied at 3 each. Shifting a wagon onto strange will give them the 3 fwog wagon votes. Strange won't self hammer, so you're potentially eliming yourself by trying a strange wagon.

I thought fwog was the only wagon today with three votes. When did another wagon reach three votes?

Didn't kitty have a strong town read on strange? Strange has checked out for who knows how long, and she/he might not get the chance to post again if I put to -1.

[ofmercia]

So I know the deadline is coming up very soon. We definitely need a compromise somewhere.

I'm very much at the point where I despise ending days early (see my past two Mini games, I got hammered early, Dwlee got hammered early and screwed us over both times).

It's looking like you or progo.

[ofmercia]

UNVOTE:

[ofmercia]

Fwog should change vote then, to get -1 on progo. Then we let strange hammer. If strange stalls more I'll hammer and we elim strange tomorrow.

Or if too little time and fwog doesnt change we all join fwog on strange. And we let progo hammer.

[ofmercia]

Why is norwegian town again? My reason is because he pocketed me but why is he town for everyone else?

[ofmercia]

VOTE: StrangeMatter

[ofmercia]

I guess no elimination it is. Since everyone stalling.

[ofmercia]

I guess no elimination it is. Since everyone stalling.

Isn't majority a thing?

Apparently not, because then why'd you not follow the two players who saved your elimination and start a new strange wagon?

[ofmercia]

I guess no elimination it is. Since everyone stalling.

Isn't majority a thing?

Apparently not, because then why'd you not follow the two players who saved your elimination and start a new strange wagon?

would rather follow my own reads than sheep

With kitty posted and providing nothing. There isn't enough votes for strange. Stuck at 3.

We have to switch to progo. Or it's no elimination.

Or norway/frog switches to strange.

I'm fine with either.

[ofmercia]

I guess voting Strange is the only option?
Gonna hold out a bit more before deciding on this though. Deadline not just yet.

Might as well hammer. Multiple players showed up just shit post or stall. I don't expect much to change.

[ofmercia]

GGs town.

A very unfortunate game I think. I do often make spelling mistakes that bug me enough as town to correct them even as town. Yes part of it is that I don't want to get scumread off it but also not letting people misread what I say since it happens a lot.

Not sure what you're on about but GG