Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[TTTT]

sup nerds

VOTE: Mr Turtle

[TTTT]

Alianna
do you mind getting a profile pic?
it's be easier to follow the game if we have an image to tie to your posts
also how's it feel to role scum in your first serious game?

[TTTT]

furtive and Somnus interactions don't look like a scumteam on page1

[TTTT]

VOTE: Alianna
this is more than random

[TTTT]

I'll explain later
but not until after everyone else enters
and I get to talk to Alianna some more

[TTTT]

Somnus
I haven't read your scumgame
how townread were you throughout?

[TTTT]

VOTE: somnus

now you can't say that you haven't been voted

[TTTT]

VOTE: alianna

[TTTT]

Why did I pick the most incriminating picture I have?

unresolved guilt

[TTTT]

Alianna
this is your first game on MS
have you played elsewhere?

[TTTT]

hey thanks for the profile pic
on my screen it looks like a roll of toilet paper with a scarf and a knife

[TTTT]

Alianna
why do you think Somnus said he won't vote for you in the first ten pages because of your post 34?

[TTTT]

Alianna
you seem like a fun person
I'm sorry you rolled scum in your first game
I hope you have an experienced partner to talk to so it's not overwhelming

[TTTT]

ok
I like you answer to why you think Somnus liked your post 34
so let's do this again
why do you think I think you are scum?

[TTTT]

a little bit

[TTTT]

think about what?

[TTTT]

that's a very transparent thing to say and I'm not sure how to process it

[TTTT]

I do appreciate you interacting with me in real time
definitely helps the sorting

[TTTT]

like you don't seem anxious at all here
but you pinged me on page1
I'm going to bed now

[TTTT]

there was one other thing after page1
someone remind me later to bring it up

[TTTT]

can you guys start putting down a vote or something?
even a random vote is better than nothing

[TTTT]

PimP
did you read all the posts before yours before you posted?

[TTTT]

there was one other thing after page1
someone remind me later to bring it up

Was it the thing I just asked about? Lol

No
I read the lack of braincells things as Alianna thinking I found the answer given in 43 dumb
which I didn't

[TTTT]

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

[TTTT]

[quote="In [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13283911]

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost.[/quote]

this makes the TTTT sad

[TTTT]

Somnus
I think he was making a joke
best if we don't talk too much about PRs

[TTTT]

That was meant @BigTerp not Somnus

[TTTT]

Speaking of confusion, the first page or two had a lot of talk about a previous game or 2. Seems like a few of you were already in a game together, which is fine. But talk that like, again, is prime for causing confusion. Further cements my thoughts (scum lean) on Somnus and raises my eyebrow towards TTTT.

how odd

[TTTT]

Furtive
your plan is to defend whoever is wagoned?
I'm so confused right now
Luke plz be town I need you

[TTTT]

@BigTerp
your only other game on site is from a loooong time ago
have you played online mafia elsewhere?

[TTTT]

I can't get over 108
paragraph #1 - Furtive is a TR
paragraph #2 - TTTT is a scumlean for something he didn't do, but Furtive did do

[TTTT]

Furtive
your plan is to defend whoever is wagoned?
I'm so confused right now
Luke plz be town I need you

I don't want a repeat of Ofmerciagate. I think sometimes the day 1 elimination is someone who feels a bit awkward/doesn't quite fit in and I don't want that because that is often town.

I think this is a lazy approach
regardless of your alignment
scum can be found day1

[TTTT]

yes statistically day1 results in a miselim more than a scum elim
because
1) there are more town players
2) scum is informed

but this by no means is an excuse to not try
town winrate goes up enormously when you catch scum day1
and when I was active here a couple years back we often caught scum day1
my town winrate in Newbie games is 11-1
lots of that was luck, but also some damn good scumhunting by some really great town teams

[TTTT]

linkie: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=79316
game also gives a good example of me defending an awkward new player day1 when they are being SR by everyone

[TTTT]

furtive are you enjoying reading Newbie 1925?

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furtive
still nothing to say about this game?

[TTTT]

like you seem to be saying you have no plans to do anything day1 except defend whoever is being wagoned
yet you just read a game where in day1 I prevented an elim on a town player that many were SRing while also leading the elim on mafia
you can scumhunt and TR others at the same time

[TTTT]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts
my only question for now is what specifically makes you townlean me?
we just finished a game where you were town and I was mafia
so what is different here in my early play?

[TTTT]

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

[TTTT]

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

[TTTT]

Somnus
he also gave Furtive a townlean
which made no sense if talking about old games is scummy

[TTTT]

Alanna
talk to me about furtive please

[TTTT]

You seem to enjoy interrogating me lol. One second.

think of it more as a discussion
sorting new players on day1 is almost always my priority
if it helps, the more you've been interacting with me, the less I've liked having my vote on you

[TTTT]

@Luke - your feedback on this would be helpful
I think his last reply was reasonable
but I'm open for second opinions
it's hard to step outside myself for this one

Spoiler: Y U NO PARANOID FURTIVE?

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

[TTTT]

Just FYI
I'm sick sick sick
been up all night puking my guts out
not thinking at my peak today
hoping tomorrow is better and I'll get back in this

[TTTT]

I townread Alianna.

I do too. I know joke posts can come from either alignment, but your first two pages of posts are very unlikely to come from newbie scum. You’ve been very transparent.

I agree and should have done this a while back

UNVOTE: Alianna

[TTTT]

thank you all for the "get well soons"
feeling much better this morning

[TTTT]

I don't have any high confidence reads atm
Alianna and Terp look town
still scumlean Furtive (sorry buddy)

[TTTT]

Does anyone seem scummy to you?

Are you talking to me or someone else?

WAIT OOPS-
I meant to you but anyone can respond ig

Yes, I didn't really like

furtiveglance

's answers to my questions in posts 103 & 110 as well as his mindset 114 & 117. To me it seems that he doesn't want to solve the game because it's day 1 and hides between a curtain of meta by saying "but last game we mis-eliminated on day 1!". However his reads list in 131 was good. He does a full 180 following 130 and puts an effort in to solve, it seems. The actual reads list is hedgy, but I attribute that more to newness than scumminess. Tonally I feel like he's been a bit stiff and forced, as I believe you and Lukewarm already previously pointed out (224 or 8, for example). I'll be honest and say that I have little idea whether his newness is clouding my judgement. Currently, I have him as a scum-lean.

PlmPestPlaY

has the least amount of posts. He OMGUS' Somnus, makes a couple of statements I didn't really get in 201. I hope we can convince him to post a bit more and be more confident, else he'll remain completely unreadable. His lack of posting is

probably

due to this being his first forum game - I've been in the exact same place not even that long ago; however there's always the possibility of him being an overwhelmed mafia. He's in the null range for me, but I'd love to see a bit more thoughts even if they're basic and bare-boned.

I'm a bit wary of you,

marcistar

. I don't get whether the latter part of 208 is a joke or not, but being vague makes it much harder to read you and not voting does too. Being able to double down on a take because you formulated it vague on purpose rarely helps the town and it's hard to know where you're at regarding your reads. I also agree with BigTerp's take on you with regards to the vague questions. Asking questions is completely valid and fine - I've done so a lot as well - but I'm missing the part where you draw conclusions from the answers that you've gotten and share them with the thread. However I did like your post in 169. You seemed to be putting effort into the game and the case on furtiveglance is the most well thought-out case this game. I just don't get why you wouldn't vote him after saying you find him scummy and casing him? I get that you want to make sure that you like the vote (208), but you seemed to have built a rather convincing case on him. At the moment, you seem the scummiest to me. Maybe you could explain to me why you asked the questions and what you got out of the answers (198, 158 etc.)? How do you plan on solving this game, what's your approach? It would be appreciated.

VOTE: marcistar

this post gives me the heebie jeebies but I cannot articulate why
I know how scummy it looks to say this
but there it is

[TTTT]

Somnus townlean

[TTTT]

Somnus - Similar reasons to Mr Turtle.

Somnus didn't make the posts Mr Turtle made - do you mean gut feeling again?

Mostly.

Beware, this player is a known bamboozler as mafia.

plz explain

[TTTT]

not opposed to a Marci wagon atm
but let's see how this plays out

VOTE: PlmPestPlaY

[TTTT]

furtive
I don't love how your immediate response to my obnoxious "look at me I'm a good Newbie game player" post
was to ask for a link to the game where I lost as town

[TTTT]

and if anybody else was voting you rn I'd be on your wagon

[TTTT]

Interesting. I have the exact opposite feel from Mr. Turtles post here. I know you said you cannot articulate why, but would love to hear more on your "heebie jeebies" feels.

it feels too carefully constructed
I don't know Turtle yet though
I could say more but then I'll end up talking myself into taking my gut too seriously here

[TTTT]

TTTT has the most experience based on join date.

TTTT is also more likely to be town, just like everyone else

. So I think I'll trust TTTT.

huh?

[TTTT]

furtive
can you explain what you meant in 219?

[TTTT]

Why the vote on PlmPestPlay?

Can you expand on your scummy feelings for Furtiveglance, and why you don't have a vote on them but instead on PlmPestPlay?

my iso says what I was thinking at the time regarding furtive
I'll be glad to answer specific questions but not really gonna write up a case right now since I'm not pushing for a wagon there
PPP is a better wagon at the moment for some reasons
I will gladly explain in more detail later

[TTTT]

furtive
you should place that vote somewhere

[TTTT]

@marci
@Alianna
@PPP
same thing
we are several IRL days into this game
everyone should have a vote down

[TTTT]

TTTT has the most experience based on join date.

TTTT is also more likely to be town, just like everyone else

. So I think I'll trust TTTT.

huh?

It's just probability. A player is more likely to be town. I've said already I don't believe I can read people day 1.

gotcha that makes sense
I thought you were saying TTTT is more likely to be town than other players
which didn't make sense
also based on join date I am not the most experienced

[TTTT]

Interesting. I have the exact opposite feel from Mr. Turtles post here. I know you said you cannot articulate why, but would love to hear more on your "heebie jeebies" feels.

it feels too carefully constructed
I don't know Turtle yet though
I could say more but then I'll end up talking myself into taking my gut too seriously here

Fair enough. Thanks.

a bit more:
scum sometimes have a hard time maintaining consistent and live interactions in the game
it's easier to just pop in now and then with a big post with a bunch of links that looks analytical
so those kind of posts stand out to me

[TTTT]

Turtle's reads above are almost completely in sync with mine

[TTTT]

Luke get back in here so I can see what your scumgame looks like

[TTTT]

PPP is a better wagon at the moment for some reasons
I will gladly explain in more detail later

[TTTT]

TTTT is acting strangely at the moment.

hello, I am the town version of TTTT
nice to meet you

[TTTT]

Alianna, since I have you here
who you gonna vote for?

[TTTT]

I'm not doing a whole long reads list
not really my thing
and I already said I pretty much completely agree with Turtle's list
right now the day1 elim should be in:
furtive
Luke
Marci
PPP

Luke probably has the charisma to avoid a day1 elim (and is a likely N1 kill if he is town and starts showing it)
furtive I feel pretty confident can be sorted later
so unless something changes (which it probably will with 7 days left) I'd like wagons to build on Marci and PPP

[TTTT]

like ideally here we have both Marci and PPP at E-2
based on everybody's stated reads I don't know why we don't
and then stuff starts happening
right now nearly half the playerlist isn't voting
so nobody feels pressure

[TTTT]

I think it's a good idea
just make sure to make it obvious with bold text when you are putting someone at E-1
like this:

Spoiler:

Marci is now at E-1
That means the next vote for Marci is the hammer that ends the day.
Nobody should hammer until first giving "intent to hammer" and allowing Marci to claim a role and to let other players unvote if they aren't ready for the day to end.
An early hammer vote will be taken as a scumclaim.

[TTTT]

I hadn't ISO'd Somnus
but now I have and you have a point
I started TRing him after his back and forth with furtive
191
219
223
but yeah...

[TTTT]

UNVOTE:

I am not comfortable with a E1 here.

boo

clearly site meta has changed in the past few years
town has their voice and their vote
and here we are futzing around

[TTTT]

Big Terp had an awkward entrance
but the dude hasn't played in almost a decade
he's like a Medieval blacksmith transported in time to the modern age

[TTTT]

but I really like Luke coming in here and telling me my reads are wrong

[TTTT]

VOTE: marcistar

Marci is now at E-1.
That means the next vote for Marci is the hammer that ends the day.
Nobody should hammer until first giving "intent to hammer" and allowing Marci to claim a role and to let other players unvote if they aren't ready for the day to end.
An early hammer vote will be taken as a scumclaim.

I really wanted competing wagons
but since people don't wanna vote I'll settle for this

[TTTT]

note about claims:

you should never claim unless someone gives intent to hammer
you shouldn't make obvious softclaims either (example: "you guys will REALLY miss me when I'm gone")
if you are vanilla town you should NOT fakeclaim or fake softclaim a power role (PR) in a Newbie game - you might think you are being clever but it almost always backfires and gets the real PR outed
play your claims straight and play them only at the last possible moment

[TTTT]

note about the note about claims:

we are nowhere near ready for marcia to claim a role
at the very least marcia should be allowed to provide all her thoughts on this game
then let people unvote if they choose

[TTTT]

Luke - you said this about PPP

I also feel like he does not look like he has a scum buddy. Like in the, he does not look like he has someone talking to him behind the scenes kind of way.

I had the same thought about Terp
except more like "scum!Terp's partner is absent from the game"

[TTTT]

∆good questions

[TTTT]

Why do you (or TTTT who also asked about it) think that I should have left my vote in place in that situation?

the benefit of the extra pressure is greater than the risk of lolhammer

[TTTT]

@TTTT - Why are you not putting Somnus back on the table if you agree with me once you look at his ISO?

your post made me realize my TR on him wasn't based on a whole lot
so that read was weakened
doesn't change what is tactically the right thing here
which is getting someone to E1 and see what happens

[TTTT]

In my experience, when a town player is close to elimination they make it known that they are vanilla town and that a kill on them won't hurt the town (in a sense that they are not a special role).

Can you elaborate? Because I honestly don't see the logic.

This should only happen when intent to hammer is given. Otherwise, let's all just shut our mouths about roles. Outing that you are a VT helps scum PoE and find PRs.

[TTTT]

glad to see some of you are seeing the helpfulness of competing wagons and the benefit of everyone committing to a vote at this stage

[TTTT]

last thoughts before I have to get back to work
I like BigTerp's recent stuff on these last few pages
378 is super awkward and it's be amazing if this game was as simple as PPP-marci
@Luke - did you give a read on marci after their big catch-up posts? on mobile and haven't read everything in depth yet so maybe missed it.

[TTTT]

marci
you haven't said a word about Somnus yet
now would be a good time

[TTTT]

Intent to hammer Marcistar

not yet
I don't even want a claim from marci yet
UNVOTE:

[TTTT]

marci
you haven't said a word about Somnus yet
now would be a good time

oh my bad i thought i already mentioned it but apparently not.. i think their townie.

can you give me some reasons why?

[TTTT]

So basically:
Is she Scum, who is defensive and just trying to avoid being eliminated - but then named a list of names that never saves her?
Or is she town, who is defensive and demotivated - and named a list of names of the people she is actually suspicious of?

I really don't like this Luke
we wanted and were promised your read on marci once she got active
but this is looking like you are trying to save her without actually going out on a limb trying to save her
it would be suprememely helpful to have your read on her play so far, based on your experience with her
yes I know I spelled that wrong it was for increased emphaphasis

[TTTT]

Luke
to get you jumpstarted here are some questions:
1) as town does marci usually take this long to develop actual reads?
2) as town does marci ignore pressure?
3) as town does marci often have reads outside the mainstream of the other players?

[TTTT]

honestly it wouldve been mostly "idk i think they could be either alignment " and giving a readslist for it to mostly be that im not aboutta do

nah
you said you have three scumreads or at least scumleans...

Marci who is the most sus rn?
Feel free to say me

yes you

aliana or mr turtle as well

and you've said Somnus is townie...

marci
you haven't said a word about Somnus yet
now would be a good time

oh my bad i thought i already mentioned it but apparently not.. i think their townie.

BigTerp is townie too apparently...

no, r u?

??

what about it

You were directly asked if you were town. Your response was "no, r u?" Please explain.

I think you might be town B)

so you have five reads out of eight players which means your readlist is something like this?

TOWN
Somnus
BigTerp

NULL
Lukewarm
TTTT
PPP

SCUM
Turtle
Alianna
furtive

[TTTT]

my problem is that you have said these things when you do have reads

I don't think its useful to make a whole readslist thats just 90% "hehe idk they could be either alignment!!"

honestly it wouldve been mostly "idk i think they could be either alignment " and giving a readslist for it to mostly be that im not aboutta do

[TTTT]

@marci
is 2061 your only Newbie scumgame?

[TTTT]

you two played as a hydra in a game that ended barely a month ago
so that's one reason I don't love the mutual null reads

[TTTT]

do you know each other IRL?

[TTTT]

now we are getting somewhere
make sure you analyse these wagons later in the game after a few flips

VOTE: marci

[TTTT]

I want Marci to respond to 409 / 410

[TTTT]

the IT guy at work now has this forum blocked
so I'm stuck phone posting during working hours
seriously taking a dump in my Cheerios here

[TTTT]

someone asked how to deal with Alianna's replacement
I don't move them to null
how their predecessor played matters
why would it not?

[TTTT]

this is me posting but not unvoting
furtive you should wait for dino to post some thoughts
and then get a claim from marci if you still want to hammer

[TTTT]

I feel like I need to say that if anybody is opposed to this elim they should speak up
don't worry about a possible red flip making you look bad
this is no time to be timid

[TTTT]

good stuff Turtle
I agree regarding Luke's general towniness
heterodox readslist is town+
I don't think the locktown on me can't come from scum
it makes me a more likely N1 kill which doesn't point a finger at anybody in particular, which could benefit scum!Luke
I'm not surprised that town!Luke views me as town
I know my scumgame fails in many ways to emulate how I play as town
and I figured eventually Luke would see the difference
so yeah it's again town+ when scum!Luke could have focused elsewhere
like it's still possible that we end up in a situation where scum don't shoot me tonight
no claims have been made at all day1 (as it should be)
so scum!Luke doesn't have a lot of benefit from clearing me right now

[TTTT]

no claims have been made at all day1 (as it should be)

meaning no claims so far
to be clear...
I'm not saying you shouldn't always have no claims day1

[TTTT]

FFS

[TTTT]

that slot is probably scum

[TTTT]

welcome Goldfish
we have four days until the end of day1
if you can give us your thoughts within the next 24 hours it would be very helpful
Marci is at E-1 but no claim yet and we will need to resolve that after you catch up

[TTTT]

Goldie
I'm not expecting a novel
don't really wanna read one
just your thoughts on each player
I'd prefer you write up posts as you are catching up, rather than making one or two giant walls
not only is it easier to read, but it makes it easier to follow your thought process as you read the game

[TTTT]

Goldie - what about everyone else?
can you give a quick readlist?
with or without explanations is fine
just something we can use as a baseline
would really help out for day2

[TTTT]

UNVOTE:

I don't want a hammer or even a claim until Goldie is caught up

[TTTT]

TTTT - Could you elaborate on why you moved your vote off of Marci, twice, when they were at E-1? And more importantly, why didn't you put your vote elsewhere to help with the "dueling wagon" theory you've been advocating for?

I don't want a hammer or even a claim until we hear more from Goldie
it costs us little to wait 24 hours
I'm not moving to another wagon because I don't want the Marci wagon to collapse I'd others follow
I get how it looks if Marci flips red
not too worried about that
I mean, that's actually a bit helpful right now tbh
and I'll gladly be the hammer when the time comes

[TTTT]

EBWOP

I'm not moving to another wagon because I don't want the Marci wagon to collapse

if

others follow

[TTTT]

@Goldie
we need your thoughts soon
like within a few hours of this post
I said it before: just read and post as you go
this is better for us to see how you are thinking than a large catch up post

[TTTT]

Both these things could be perceived as scum trying to look as if they are scum reading their partner, putting votes and pressure on them but then getting nervous and moving off.

so it's scummy because I'm trying to save Marci from getting elim'd?
but it's also scummy because I'm not voting another counter wagon?
pick one

[TTTT]

I know what I am doing
and I know how it looks
but in the end it makes sense and benefits town
and I'm ok with a few people not getting that

[TTTT]

you guys do realize you are not getting anything else from Marci, right?
I'm more interested in some thoughts from Goldie

[TTTT]

if you can give us your thoughts within the next 24 hours it would be very helpful
Marci is at E-1 but no claim yet and we will need to resolve that after you catch up

@Goldfish
it's been 24 hours
go ahead and start working on your day2 fake claim with your partner

PEDIT: I see you just posted. Haven't read it yet but will

[TTTT]

I'm currently formulating a reads list for the game but it's taking a while.

whatever happened to this?

[TTTT]

I have a note that says it probably isn't a marci-goldie scumteam
but Goldie is really making me question that

[TTTT]

Goldie hasn't commented on very much at all that happened prior to her replacing in
almost like she isn't trying to formulate actual reads
I'm good with either a Marci or Goldie elim today
VOTE: marci

[TTTT]

you have some explaining to do

[TTTT]

That's E-1

someone should intent to hammer and let's get Marco's claim
unless you all want to elim Goldie

[TTTT]

there is a lot wrong with Goldie's 571
casting a lot of shade without taking any real stances

[TTTT]

It seems I'm in the awkward situation of replacing into a town slot that looks pretty scummy.

No idea what gave you that impression...

It would be a bit underwhelming if marcistar and GoldfishFromTheMoon turned out to be mafia. Hope GoldfishFromTheMoon is town.

This post freaks me out.

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

[TTTT]

odd how you think you can read my mind
I certainly entertained the thought here on the last two pages

[TTTT]

Lukewarm : Haven't got around to reading ISO yet but what I've seen seems good.

did you not read the game from the beginning?
are you just reading ISOs?

[TTTT]

Can someone please intent to hammer Marci so we can get a claim?
the clock is ticking

[TTTT]

Both these things could be perceived as scum trying to look as if they are scum reading their partner, putting votes and pressure on them but then getting nervous and moving off.

so it's scummy because I'm trying to save Marci from getting elim'd?
but it's also scummy because I'm not voting another counter wagon?
pick one

Yes. Like I said, both of these things could be perceived as scummy. But they aren't necessarily exclusive either.

they do seem to be contradictory
like if I'm marci's scum partner I utterly failed because I didn't push a counterwagon
if I'm the partner it would have been better to just straight bus her and let her self-hammer to avoid spew
not unvote to ensure we got some content from a replacement
my unvotes did not prevent her having to claim, as you can now see
my unvotes just delayed it

[TTTT]

Marci your next post should claim your role or state that you are refusing to claim

Furtive - if she claims do not hammer yet
we need to discuss no matter the claim
I have no problem with you hammering if she doesn't claim in her next post
but that's just me
not sure how others will see it

[TTTT]

changing topics...
not a fan of BigTerp's push on me
or his reading of Goldie's posts

[TTTT]

the closer it gets to an end of day the more interesting it gets

[TTTT]

PPP are you opposed to a marci elim here?
you haven't really talked about her since you said it was interesting that she didn't jump on your wagon when it started looking bad for her
at that time you said you had scumleaned her before that
but I don't see where you've came out with an updated read on marci since then

[TTTT]

"chosen not to claim"
bruh i literally just got home from work what

But anyways its fine yall wouldnt get off my ass no matter what I say so this is needed.

you posted after intent to hammer was given
boo-hoo

no last minute thoughts?

[TTTT]

yeah I think this is >50% chance of being a red flip

[TTTT]

and if it is that tells us the partner is more likely an inexperienced player because they didn't craft a fake claim

[TTTT]

scum!Marci clears Luke

[TTTT]

I cannot imagine a world where scum!Luke doesn't get scum!Marci to fakeclaim here
you are thinking, "maybe because he can then use this as a way to make us think he is town"
yes that's a very very very remote possibility
but not at all as likely as him using a day1 elim of his partner to get a town PR outed

[TTTT]

if Marci is green my best guess is scum are PPP and Goldie
not at all high confidence
just best guess at this point

[TTTT]

why isn't anybody else here to chat in twilight with me?

[TTTT]

do you guys wanna hear a Hitler joke?
fair warning it isn't very funny

[TTTT]

I'm not saying you are dumb
but you dragged your feet about claiming
and never really got engaged in the game

[TTTT]

so how about some final reads?

[TTTT]

I'm sorry this wasn't fun for you
but being wagoned is part of the game
like there was enough content for you to do more than you did
and you didn't claim when asked

[TTTT]

hey last question:
in your mind, should Luke have been able to townread you here in this game?
that's the one read I think we most need from you before the thread locks

[TTTT]

By Grabthar's Hammer, by the suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged.

[TTTT]

yeah you are right we would have elim'd through a VT claim for sure

[TTTT]

but I think it's important to first get a response from TTTT before I comment further.

I tried to slow down the end of the day because we had a replacement player
we were past the point of having two viable wagons
anybody who is making hay out of the two wagons thing wasn't reading the room
not a single player voiced opposition to the Marci elim

[TTTT]

Somnus if I'm following you
you are saying PPP and furtive

[TTTT]

not sure why it is very very unlikely from anybody else's POV
what are you getting at?
I do find it funny that PPP thinks he can get me elim'd today

[TTTT]

I'm really early.

Lukewarm dying is predictable and kinda fitting.

I don't think scum comes out first thing day 2 and says something like this. Lukewarm was one of my biggest town reads day 1, at least I was reading that one right.

I disagree
it's not uncommon for scum to comment on the nightkill with something like "yeah we all saw that coming amirite guys?"

[TTTT]

not sure why it is very very unlikely from anybody else's POV
what are you getting at?
I do find it funny that PPP thinks he can get me elim'd today

Because it would mean you delayed Day 1 as long as possible, risking a wagon continuing to grow on me, whether you joined in said-wagon or not. If you and I were partners, it's a bold move, Cotton.

admittedly my scum game isn't super deep
but I'd like to think I'd play that the same way as scum
extending the day when the elim is inevitable (outside a PR claim) is EZ town points

[TTTT]

we are in a pretty good spot here
losing two VTs with no PR claims outed is not that bad a place to be at the start of day2
let's take our time here
but also remember it's only 7 days, not ten

[TTTT]

I will be VLA from 3/19-3/24
no internet access at all
I'll be on a boat in the Caribbean so don't feel sorry for me!

[TTTT]

I'm gonna miss Luke
I felt like I could do something that looked weird
and Luke would then take the time to explain it to you guys
now I'm going to have to stop being lazy

Also raise a pint to Luke for doing what a good VT player should do:
1) Look town.
2) Bait the nightkill

well done

[TTTT]

PPP looking good here

[TTTT]

I have zero read on Goldfish currently.

I have a couple reasons to scumread Goldie, neither of which are really her fault:
the double replace outs from newbies in that slot with no discussion beforehand about struggling to keep up with the game
and
Alianna's entrance is how newbie scum often enter games
this read is subject to change based on Goldie's play, but I can't ignore how +scum those two things are

[TTTT]

I'll reread the game tonight
phone posting at work right now

[TTTT]

I think PPP might just have some very weird turns of phrase. I can't really see them paired with Somnus. The gamesolve I have right now is Somnus/Gold.

I could see this

[TTTT]

Mr. Turtle - What's with the such low post count?

I'll add to this and say that sporadic large posts don't help us sort you
we really need more regular interactions

[TTTT]

Like this.

[TTTT]

before anyone asks
Loopdan is one of my alt account
or more accurately, TTTT is a Loopdan alt

[TTTT]

Case on Somnus: I didn't like their initial readslist in 331, in which they had 4 of us in the null range, and I strongly disagreed with their scumread on BigTerp. They didn't really comment much

Like this.

I just read through this thread, further down the argument gets pretty deconstructed, and you yourself said that lots of town players did it anyway so I don't think this is a valid tell.

I'm not gonna argue with you about it's validity
I was asked why in my experience Alianna had a newbscum entrance
this is one of the best linguistic tells you will ever find
it is a tool not the end all
and given we are now down to 2/6 scum instead of 2/8 scum I'm giving it more weight than I did at the start of the game
especially when combined with the double replacements for this slot

[TTTT]

I'm going to try and re-read the whole game tonight
in the meantime

VOTE: GoldfishFromTheMoon

I get that I'm voting you for things outside your control
and that's not entirely fair
but I'm playing to my wincon
feel free to convince me that I'm wrong

[TTTT]

Alianna
do you mind getting a profile pic?
it's be easier to follow the game if we have an image to tie to your posts
also how's it feel to role scum in your first serious game?

Alianna
do you mind getting a profile pic?
it's be easier to follow the game if we have an image to tie to your posts

Done.

Alianna ignored (and deleted from the quote) my second question

[TTTT]

Hi. I'm new here. Does anyone play on epicmafia.org? I don't trust the website because you can only login with 3rd party accounts.

Well, nvm. That is a silly reason not to trust it. Only took a couple of seconds of research to find that out. Can't delete posts right?

I don't like this entrance either
it reads to me like someone who feels the need to write something but isn't sure what to say about the game so far

[TTTT]

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

Furtive
what information did you get out of the marci elim?

[TTTT]

I think PPP is town, I know you're seeing a Gold/PPP team. I see Somnus/Gold or Somnus/TTTT(!)

nah I think I'm moving off PPP
his day2 is solid so far

[TTTT]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

Furtive please explain this now
why do you think I was never really considering marci/Gold?

[TTTT]

well, you are wrong
there is no reason why it can't be a simple answer

[TTTT]

Furtive's initial read on Turtle looks fake:

Scratch that, I will give some very primitive reads, on order of how town I think a player is.

My biggest townread is Mr Turtle. They seem quite frank in a way that mafia might not be on day 1.

Also townlean on TTTT, seem to be trying to advance the game.

I will stay neutral on Somnus, they have said nothing about the game so far.

Lukewarm has said eww twice and nothing else, so no read.

Marci has not arrived yet - no read.

Alianna had a strange interaction with TTTT at the start, I will say no read because it wasn't really game related but could be nervous mafia or nervous town. Either way nervous

PimpPestPlay has seemed a bit blendy so far, almost like they want to be ignored in some posts. I will need more substance from them, for now it is a tentative scumlean.

BigTerp asked if I was cop in one of their first posts, which seems strange. Did they really not know I was joking about being a Rolecop? And do they really not know what the difference between Cop and Rolecop is alignment-wise? They insist on having no confusion but have given me some confusion so far. It could be that they aren't a native speaker/are new to this website/setup?
For now it's a tentative scumlean.

I didn't see it at first, but Luke did...

@Luke - your feedback on this would be helpful
I think his last reply was reasonable
but I'm open for second opinions
it's hard to step outside myself for this one

Spoiler: Y U NO PARANOID FURTIVE?

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

I feel like his read on you is the less interesting one? I think you seem fairly townie as well, at least for this early in the game.

But his other town reads bother me after making such a big deal ALL GAME last game telling me that I was town reading people too easily. And then his "strongest town read" is turtle with his 3 total posts

[TTTT]

then...

TTTT, I am not paranoid because I'm not the kind of player who automatically suspects/fearvotes any player that has won as mafia against me. You honestly seem town to me this game, and that's a gut read.

Lukewarm, if you think I'm playing differently it could be because this is a new game. The first 100 posts had a more jokey/relaxed feel. You should also bear in mind that this is my second game on the site so my playstyle is not yet formed.

Marcistar, welcome to the game. Lukewarm was getting pretty restless. I see you think I'm mafia. Hopefully either 1) I can convince you otherwise or 2) You will be revealed to be evil Mafia scum! As for the defending the day 1 wagon thing, that's in the scenario that a player I think is town is being voted. If I'm leading a vote then things will be different.

Mr Turtle, yes Mafia could also be frank on day 1. It's just that you seem almost prickly/confrontational which would be risky of mafia.

Somnus does not get a scumlean from me for not saying anything game related. I don't think that would make much sense.

PimpPestPlay, what are your reads right now?

I accept BigTerp's newness as a defence for otherwise strange posts. UNVOTE: BigTerp

Go check Turtle's ISO
nothing prickly or confrontational at all

[TTTT]

UNVOTE:

I'm far from townreading BigTerp but yeah, furtive's post convinced me to at least not vote them right away.

if Goldie is scum
I don't think furtive is the partner

[TTTT]

Actually regretting spoiling that it’s based on post count now instead of letting you think it was based on your current alignment. A blown opportunity on my part.

I knew for sure it wasn't your role, don't worry about that (I'm Rolecop not Goon)

Imagine saying that, then winning the game as an actual mafia rolecop. I don't have much experience, so I don't believe I can read people on day 1. Can't say causing chaos on day 1 makes someone scum, since that day matters the least. From where I'm standing everyone is just tying themselves into a knot. Guess I'll vote, just because everyone else is.

VOTE: Somnus

this is a +scum post
putting the second vote down but denying responsibility

[TTTT]

I like Somnus' 210-214

[TTTT]

Can those that haven't given full readslists do so soon/refuse and say why not?

What are your thoughts on my readlist?

I've been townreading Alianna recently. Seems fairly chill
And PimPestPlay I'd have a bit lower down, seems very blendy/coasty, even in a self aware way. I just want more from them really

The others I'd generally agree with to a greater or lesser extent.

I like this post a lot
furtive didn't have any need to change his read of Alianna to town, against the consensus of suspicion on her

[TTTT]

we owe Luck the courtesy to review his case on Somnus

Started working through the isos of people not in my town pile, planning to do everyone, but found scum before I finished my list

BigTerp

Did not like his entrance 101/102/108 - discussed before

Most of his iso feels empty. Like so much of it is talking about whether or not we should be talking about prior games, that it is completely overshadowing any thoughts he might have about this game - which is kinda ironic tbh.

The things that give me pause are 207 and 251 because they are exactly my reactions to those same posts [see 291 and 300 from my own iso. Like eerily similar to the point where I might have suspected him mirroring my posts if his did not come before mine lol.

Somnus

Reading his iso, his first 22 posts say nothing at all. That is a lot of posts to make, for it to say nothing.

There is a latch onto BigTerp's entrance [135 136 139 147 156 172 186 (in spoiler below)] - then more nothing posts [140 148 149 154] before a "prod vote"

This is scum.

Post 187 / Iso 34 ---- He is at prod votes, with no thoughts or reasons. Even looking at his interactions with BigTerp - no hint at thinking that BigTerp is scum making up a reason to scum read him.

Spoiler:

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

In 92 I was joking about the tags under our usernames.

Gotcha. Although joking like that can create confusion. Who likes confusion in a game or Mafia? SCUM!! I've still got you as a town read though, for now.

Speaking of confusion, the first page or two had a lot of talk about a previous game or 2. Seems like a few of you were already in a game together, which is fine. But talk that like, again, is prime for causing confusion. Further cements my thoughts (scum lean) on Somnus and raises my eyebrow towards TTTT.

Welcome but like...this is such a weird post. I pointed out in my first post that there were a lot of players from newbie 2088 in this game. Then furtive and TTTT very briefly asked about my other game I played on here in which I was scum. I guess in your world I should have just ignored their questions?

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

He made a joke about being mafia role cop and you’re asking if he hard claimed town cop? Am I reading this correctly? I’m having a hard time believing you legit misread things in your catch-up this much.

Yeah. Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd. Not to mention thinking that furtive hard-claimed town cop less than 24 hours into the game after jokingly stating he was mafia role cop. Enough about power roles. This is a bad idea.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

Hoping to hear more from lukewarm, Mr Turtle, and Pimpest (as well as for marcistar to join) so I have a complete roster to make initial reads of.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

It was something to get things moving for me early day one. It just seemed odd, as I'm not used to so much discussion about previous games, especially when it directly effects the current game. Maybe it's just that things have changed in that respect since I last played. But especially for a newbie game, I don't see how it's productive. And I certainly am not going to dig back through previous games to try and gain Intel.

That's fine if you choose not to dig through people's ISOs from previous games.

You know what else gets things moving early in Day 1? Discussing people's experience/play-style.

Lukewarm, if you think I'm playing differently it could be because this is a new game. The first 100 posts had a more jokey/relaxed feel. You should also bear in mind that this is my second game on the site so my playstyle is not yet formed.

Exactly. There were 4 of us here (5 if you include Luke's 1 post) when the game started and we were mostly joking around, as well as me answering questions about the only other game I've played on-site. So I don't understand this notion that I haven't said anything game-related. Everything I've said after the first 12 hours after the game started has been game-related.

Hilariously, asking those questions apparently got you town-read, but answering them got me scum-read because logic.

BigTerp's entrance is "weird" - not scummy.

Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd

The "logic used behind" the vote on him is "absurd" but never questioned as scummy / fake.

His whole reaction feels more like scum who thinks they are catching flak for rediculous reasons, then a townie trying to sort through to determine BigTerp's alignment.

-----

I will keep doing the other people to give a full reads list, but I am happy with

VOTE: Somnus

[TTTT]

Well mafia use townreading as a tool to get towncred, I wouldn't put much stock by it. TTTT do you townread Somnus? I have said many times they are my number one suspect.

I've been back and forth on Somnus
still re-reading
I'll let you know when I'm done

[TTTT]

this was an underrated post from Terp. Alianna was very easily convinced to put Marci at E-1:

Alianna, since I have you here
who you gonna vote for?

At the moment, I'm debating on that. Marci is my strongest scumread, but I have no idea if it's a good decision to put her at E-1.

Will respond more fully tomorrow but if you’re implying that 198 contributed to my voting you, it didn’t.

I'd be interested to hear what contributed to you putting Marci at E-1. Other than you saying they are you scummiest read and TTTT sort of encouraging it, you haven't laid out much reasoning for that vote at all. Has anything changed since this post https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13285373? It was 5 pages and 2 IRL days ago. You don't seem to be providing much analysis in the game, but rather popping in here or there with a few word response that lacks a lot of context and then making a, IMO, pretty big move by putting Marci at E-1. I'm not against an E-1 here, but you're vote getting it there sticks out to me.

[TTTT]

just wanna remind everyone that my dead BFF said this...

@marci
is 2061 your only Newbie scumgame?

you two played as a hydra in a game that ended barely a month ago
so that's one reason I don't love the mutual null reads

I am ready to town lock TTTT all the way to Elo (where obviously he should be reconsidered if he is alive at that point) for this.

I never see this much meta work from Scum unless they are desperate. There is no reason for Scum TTTT to be digging through Marci's past scum games here, or whatever he did to find our hydra game either.

[TTTT]

I didn't realize Somnus had made bad colored comments inside the quote in 471
and I like a lot of it

[TTTT]

Disgusting self-interest. Acknowledge that Somnus is scummy. This is your last chance to bus for towncred

relax
I'm still reading

[TTTT]

this Turtle post comes after an absence of pages and pages with nothing from him
and it's a long post about something that nobody in the game at the time cares about
totally irrelevant to the E-1 on marci or anything else happening

Spoiler:

I've decided to ISO Lukewarm to see if I was able to move them out of my null range.

Regarding marcistar

: During the first twenty four hours of the game, Lukewarm pretty much waits for her to show up (11, 77 & 157) with the reasoning that she is "easiest to read in the very start of the game, before she has found her footing". What I don't like about this is that they barely do anything and it feels as though they are hiding behind said reasoning to not do anything. Having someone to meta read at the beginning of the game makes it easier to "get into" the game so to speak, but it's also an easy way for scum to look busy. Then Luke has a bit of a back and forth of friendly banter with marcistar (160 & 164) and paired with their hyper-focus regarding their interactions with her (162 & 282), I deem them unlikely to be mafia partners. Note that when 164 was posted, 7 out of 10 posts in Luke's ISO had explicitly mentioned, quoted or been about marcistar. Later, Luke starts defending marcistar based on meta reads (286 & 299), claiming that most of her lack of vote and joke scumfession were NAI. In 294 they post their first concrete read on marcistar as "null scum". To me, this progression seems a bit messy, which I rate as being more likely towny than not. In 313, Luke voices his distaste with the E-1 vote, something which I also see as towny. They then make a non-read on marci by saying that they "want to hold off comitting to a read on her" and place them in their null range (317 & 318). Furthermore, Luke cements marcistar's null position by defending their retracted vote and subtly defending her (347, 348 & 352). I like Luke trying to slow the thread down on the marcistar wagon, it doesn't strike me as benefiting the mafia. 396, 399 & 400 are used to defend marci once again based on their scum reads, however Luke backtracks a bit by saying "I don't think that this is a slam dunk Marci is town case". I am not overjoyed by the hedginess on marcistar since a lot of Luke's posts have been used defending her. The hedginess is continued in 412, the posts 413, 414, 415 & 419 are meta dives into marci's past games, but Luke admits that he doesn't have any reliable meta tells and thus marcistar stays in the null range.

Conclusion

: Lukewarm spends a lot of time and posts semi-defending marcistar by dismissing many reasons for scum reading her as NAI while staying null throughout the entire game (minus the occasional "maybe town" or "maybe scum" comment). What makes me dislike the null read especially is the fact that I count 25-30 posts made that more or less directly have to do with marci in a 70 post ISO. With that being said, I don't think that Luke can be mafia if marcistar is. No-one enters the thread and spends a third of their posts on their scum buddy. Overall, I rate Luke's interactions with marci as lean town for them. If marci is town, I'm going to scrutinize Luke some more. Outside of the associative reads, I understand that Luke latches on to the player they best know to post about. This is something I would do as well. However, I'm a bit disappointed that the reads always end nullish.

General thoughts

: On the other hand, the rest of Luke's ISO has been quite towny since their reappearance 281. I don't want to dwell on this as long as the Luke-marci interactions, but I have a couple comments here as well. What stuck out to me the most was Luke not going with the flow. When Luke reemerged at 281, their reads were independent from thread consensus. Multiple reads lists had been posted, it would have been really easy to simply "copy" them without having anyone really bat an eye. But Luke didn't, instead they scum-cased Somnus and placed a scum lean on BigTerp in 316. The lock-town on TTTT also doesn't benefit scum!Luke (420). As mafia, Luke would want to either
a) push for TTTT to get lynched, or
b) night-kill TTTT without having a strong connection tied to the kill.
But by putting TTTT as their highest town, scum!Luke wouldn't be able to do a) or b) without receiving suspicion. The fact that Luke town-locked TTTT without having pressure on them to do so makes me feel better about them.

Conclusion

:

I'm comfortable with putting Luke as a town read

. What Luke lacks in towniness regarding their marcistar read they make up with their other posts. Particularly if marci turns out to be mafia it will make me more confident in my Luke read. They have just had a towny thread presence in this game.

[TTTT]

I cheered that post in 514
but in reading it now it's totally out of place

[TTTT]

and his next post is just theory 520
is he gonna say anything about the marci elim?

[TTTT]

Hi Everyone

,
I'm the new replacement, replacement.

It seems I'm in the awkward situation of replacing into a town slot that looks pretty scummy. Although I think a lot of the scum reading of Alianna wasn't for valid reasons, there were some accusations of not advancing the game and not giving enough reads but I think that's honestly just because she is a new player and wasn't sure how to read the game.

I have played mafia before but mostly IRL and when I have played online it's been with people I know IRL which makes it way easier to read them so this is new for me.

I'm currently formulating a reads list for the game but it's taking a while.

LOL

[TTTT]

Goldie
I'm not expecting a novel
don't really wanna read one
just your thoughts on each player
I'd prefer you write up posts as you are catching up, rather than making one or two giant walls
not only is it easier to read, but it makes it easier to follow your thought process as you read the game

this advice was totally ignored btw

[TTTT]

This was Goldie's big catchup post with reads
it's bad
very little is commented on that happened prior to Goldie replacing into the game
is this the post of a replacement player who read the whole game while trying to legitimately sort players?
(no it is not)

Spoiler:

I'm not sure we should Eliminate Marcistar yet UNVOTE: Marcistar

@Goldie
we need your thoughts soon
like within a few hours of this post

Here are some thoughts (sorry I know you didn't want a wall of text):


Tentative reads (I don't trust all these yet):
Mafia:
Somnus : really active but not contributing much, seems like active lurking
Marcistar: reasons I already described, also at the beginning they kept asking for reads but weren't contributing anything, I think that asking questions isn't scummy however it really looked like Marci was trying to look like she was pushing the game forward but not having to contribute or just looking for someone else's reads to latch onto. However I'm not certain She's scum anymore.
PPP: something is very off about their posting, they seem desperate to get somnus voted off, I wonder if it is a bus.

Everyone else seems pretty town-ish but there is nobody I completely trust.




And some other stuff:

Also though, Dino's tenure in the slot was individually kinda bad

.

Could you Explain this please; Dino made 1 post about there being a lot of content to read through, how is that suspicious?

It seems I'm in the awkward situation of replacing into a town slot that looks pretty scummy.

No idea what gave you that impression...

It would be a bit underwhelming if marcistar and GoldfishFromTheMoon turned out to be mafia. Hope GoldfishFromTheMoon is town.

This post freaks me out.

Intent to hammer Marcistar

not yet
I don't even want a claim from marci yet
UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

I don't want a hammer or even a claim until Goldie is caught up

Something to keep in mind if Marci flips scum. TTTT has advocated for competing wagons, and the importance of putting pressure on players via votes. We get Marci to E-1, twice, and each time TTTT removes their vote off of Marci.

I find this very interesting

You won't show me your pov. Give detailed reads please!!

I did everyone just ignored them

All we have so far is 409, which was cobbled together by TTTT. I don't need pages of theory/analysis, I'd just like each player put into one of three groups: town, null, and mafia.

Furthermore, if you are town, you have a unique perspective on your wagon. Who looks like they are cynically pushing you out? Who looks like town being led astray

?

I would like to hear your answer to this Marcistar.

Not a whole lot has changed since my last reads list, but here is where I'm at currently.

LukeWarm

- Pretty solid town read. Seems to really be trying to figure things out and get others involved. Posts don't seem forced or contrived, which is typically a scum tell.

Furtiveglance

- Has gone from null/townish to another solid town read. They have many of the same thoughts as myself in regards to reads, which obviously makes them a townish feel. Their pressure on Marci and intent to hammer, twice now, has me really thinking it's not something scum would be doing this early.

Mr. Turtle

- They have gone from null/scum to null/town. The only thing keeping me from reading them as solid town is lack of participation. Although they aren't contributing as much as others, what they do contribute seems pretty solid. I would love to see more from Mr. Turtle!!

TTTT

- Was my biggest town read for the longest time. Has now moved to null. More of a gut feel than anything, but something is not sitting quite right with me on TTTT lately. I mentioned this about the unvotes https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13290850 and maybe that is what has given me a lot of pause.

PPP

- Nothing has changed with my thoughts on PPP.

Somnus

- Has moved to my scummy list. Posting seems forced with little substance. It's like Somnus is here and participating, but just enough to appear as present and participating. Not giving much thought on their own reads nor others. Good strategy for scum, so if they are flipped there isn't much to go own based on their previous post.

Marcistar

- No changes here. Still my biggest scum read. They've done, literally, nothing to even attempt to change my mind here.

GoldfishFromTheMoon

- Nothing here yet. But I do like the early assessment of Marci and the seemingly eagerness to join the game. I hope they continue to participate. This slot was an early scum read for me, so I'm going to have to try hard to be a little unbiased and hear out GoldfishFromTheMoon a bit more before I make any further assessments.

I mostly agree with a lot of this (except for my slot being an early scum read lol)

[TTTT]

Goldie's twilight posts were pretty ok actually

Spoiler:

@Goldie, what changed in the like 20 mins between these posts?

TTTT accused me of possibly being scum with Marcistar and I freaked out.

This is an unexpectedly candid answer. Thank you.

Not sure I know how to feel about it with her being this open with it though. Definitely something to think about over the night phase.

It seems that Marci has chosen not to claim

VOTE: Marci

I don't like this. You didn't post an intent to hammer before hand and you haven't waited for Marci to claim (although Marcistar has been given lots of time to claim and hasn't yet so they probably had it coming)

This said please note this is not intended to accuse Lukewarm of being scum I still town/null lean them. I just thought per game etiquette there was supposed to be more warning before the hammer vote.

Actually I just read over the rules in the beginning, intent to hammer isn't required. So it's fine, ignore my last post.

Bet you they'll ignore my reads too!

Can you give us some reads?????

no last minute thoughts?

The fact that Marcistar isn't giving any is very suspicious

why isn't anybody else here to chat in twilight with me?

I was literally just thinking the same thing because I didn't notice there was another page I thought we were still on pg. 26 lol.

if Marci is green my best guess is scum are PPP and Goldie
not at all high confidence
just best guess at this point

Interested to here what makes you think this.

[TTTT]

we owe Luck the courtesy to review his case on Somnus

we owe Luke the courtesy of spelling his name correctly

[TTTT]

VOTE: Mr Turtle

[TTTT]

Go spend an hour re-reading the entire game
not ISOs
the whole game as it progresses
Turtle is largely absent and when he is here he isn't actually engaging others in meaningful ways
he's dropping in large posts with what looks like a lot of good analysis
but he makes zero effort to push anyone or anything in this game

[TTTT]

The idea that an elimination could go ahead on a town player without a single scum supporting or being on the wagon is pretty unlikely.

unlikely yes
but I wouldn't use this as a reason to clear a team though
especially on a day1 miselim in a Newbie game

[TTTT]

some other townie looking Furtive posts I marked as I was reading:
297
336

[TTTT]

for that I need to read ISOs specifically for Turtle mentions
but no time for that tonight

[TTTT]

sorry for all the posts tonight
I prefer a post for each idea/thought/reaction
rather than giant mega posts
makes it easier to follow and respond to

[TTTT]

because I have low confidence in my read on Somnus
I'd rather elim Turtle or Goldie

[TTTT]

hey aren't you the guy who said it's never who you most suspect?
sounds like you should be voting Turtle with me

[TTTT]

I won't stand for a push on an absent player.

absent?
he posted six hours ago

[TTTT]

I'm not worried about my "standing"
I'm worried about flipping red players

[TTTT]

Ok, well Lukewarm townread Turtle

he also ended the day talking about how you were scumslipping

[TTTT]

TTTT has it occured to you that Golfish sheeped your Turtle read out of nowhere and is attempting to buddy/pocket you?

I am aware of the effect I have on newbscum

[TTTT]

Somnus
who is in your scumpool besides Furtive?