Newbie 2090 (Game Over)

[Lukewarm]

Eww, game launch after midnight - evil mod, I need sleep

As always VOTE: Marci

[Lukewarm]

I read in the rules that you're allowed to claim mafia but not claim that you are mafia with someone else. In that case, the mafia are NOT me and TTTT.

But can I trust you?

There may come a time when you have to, if you are town.

Eww

[Lukewarm]

Alianna
you seem like a fun person
I'm sorry you rolled scum in your first game
I hope you have an experienced partner to talk to so it's not overwhelming

I swear I’m town, just lacking braincells today.

Can you explain this post?

What post prior to this do you think came from you because of lacking brain cells AND we're causing TTTT to think you are scum?

[Lukewarm]

there was one other thing after page1
someone remind me later to bring it up

Was it the thing I just asked about? Lol

[Lukewarm]

I wish Marci would hurry up and get here :/

[Lukewarm]

Sorry guys, been a busy day.

I am kinda sad that Marci has not shown up, I find her to be easiest to read in the very start of the game, before she has found her footing, but now there will be content for her to latch on to as either alignment, so :shrug:

Vague thoughts from skimming through, furtive feels way different then last game. Like more laid back then I remember? Not sure if it is just getting his sea legs on site, or if he is scum more worried about appearances, but definitely stood out to me.

Also, I am catching what TTTT is putting down wrt to BigTerp's entrance.

He enters the thread with 1 town lean and 1 scum lean, and then before he can even articulate the town lean he is noticing that furtive is claiming a scum role, and is confused, but it also not halting posting his read before he understands what is happening.

Frankly it feels like he started with the read, and then opened the iso and was like "wait, what?" - but could not walk it back because he had already hit send on 101

------

I would move my vote, but I am contractually obligated to leave my RVS vote on Marci at least until she gets here and assures me she is town

[Lukewarm]

oh wait, marci is here now - not fully caught up

[Lukewarm]

Marci, are you town?

[Lukewarm]

Yes, I'm curious as well. Whats furtiveglances experience like?

They are a newbie, we were both town in our last game and I was a loud voice towards killing them. Which is part of the reason I am hesitant to call them scummy for their posts so far :/

[Lukewarm]

Marci, are you town?

no, r u?

[Lukewarm]

My biggest townread is Mr Turtle. They seem quite frank in a way that mafia might not be on day 1.

Urge to scum read Furtive growing

Spoiler:

Good afternoon.

VOTE: TTTT

That profile picture scares me.

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on,

I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

After what fact?

In your opinion, would you say "clumsy and awkward" entrance posts are more likely to be town or mafia?

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on,

I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

After what fact?

The day 1 vote will give us a flip. I will use that to analyse day 1.

In your opinion, would you say "clumsy and awkward" entrance posts are more likely to be town or mafia?

No opinion on that like I said, just giving TTTT what they wanted.

So what is your plan for day 1 while you wait for a flip?

Either Furtive has become a completely different person since last game, or he is faking his reads

[Lukewarm]

@Luke - your feedback on this would be helpful
I think his last reply was reasonable
but I'm open for second opinions
it's hard to step outside myself for this one

Spoiler: Y U NO PARANOID FURTIVE?

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

I feel like his read on you is the less interesting one? I think you seem fairly townie as well, at least for this early in the game.

But his other town reads bother me after making such a big deal ALL GAME last game telling me that I was town reading people too easily. And then his "strongest town read" is turtle with his 3 total posts

[Lukewarm]

I have been prodded.

I forgot the newbie games have a shorter prod timer then most.

This is explicitly a prodgr - but I'll be on for real tonight

[Lukewarm]

I am here - just now starting my catchup

[Lukewarm]

whats ur readlists thn

I'll try to get one out tonight once I have done my catch up

[Lukewarm]

Big fan of Turtles's 182

Spoiler:

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on,

I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

After what fact?

The day 1 vote will give us a flip. I will use that to analyse day 1.

In your opinion, would you say "clumsy and awkward" entrance posts are more likely to be town or mafia?

No opinion on that like I said, just giving TTTT what they wanted.

So what is your plan for day 1 while you wait for a flip?

I will probably wait for a wagon to form, then defend the person getting voted/question the people on the wagon

I understand that from the perspective of a newer player it may seem like there isn't much to go off of during day 1, but just waiting on D1 until a wagon forms doesn't help advance town in any way. D1 is usually the hardest day-phase, because it's about creating content without actually having much content to go off of. Hence why RVS is a good way to get the game started.

I don't get your point about defending the person getting voted? Will you defend them regardless of your read on them?

Scratch that, I will give some very primitive reads, on order of how town I think a player is.

My biggest townread is Mr Turtle. They seem quite frank in a way that mafia might not be on day 1.

Also townlean on TTTT, seem to be trying to advance the game.

I will stay neutral on Somnus, they have said nothing about the game so far.

Lukewarm has said eww twice and nothing else, so no read.

Marci has not arrived yet - no read.

Alianna had a strange interaction with TTTT at the start, I will say no read because it wasn't really game related but could be nervous mafia or nervous town. Either way nervous

PimpPestPlay has seemed a bit blendy so far, almost like they want to be ignored in some posts. I will need more substance from them, for now it is a tentative scumlean.

BigTerp asked if I was cop in one of their first posts, which seems strange. Did they really not know I was joking about being a Rolecop? And do they really not know what the difference between Cop and Rolecop is alignment-wise? They insist on having no confusion but have given me some confusion so far. It could be that they aren't a native speaker/are new to this website/setup?
For now it's a tentative scumlean.

I'm glad you shared some initial reads. I have a couple questions though.

Why is mafia not frank on day 1?

Do you reckon that Somnus not saying anything about the game but still having a high amount of posts is alignment-indicative in any way?
Could PImPestPlay be blendy because they're new & nervous? Why are they a scum-lean?

I'm glad that you shared your reads and it makes me want to town-lean you. Some of your reasonings I don't see or agree with, but that's fine considering that it's early on and that they're bare-boned.

Especially the line that I highlighted. Would not expect a newbie scum to undercut a town read handed to them for a fairly weak reason.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, if you think I'm playing differently it could be because this is a new game. The first 100 posts had a more jokey/relaxed feel.

This is a decent point, I might need to look back at the start of our last game at some point, but that is not likely happening today

[Lukewarm]

@Luke - your feedback on this would be helpful
I think his last reply was reasonable
but I'm open for second opinions
it's hard to step outside myself for this one

Spoiler: Y U NO PARANOID FURTIVE?

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

I feel like his read on you is the less interesting one? I think you seem fairly townie as well, at least for this early in the game.

But his other town reads bother me after making such a big deal ALL GAME last game telling me that I was town reading people too easily. And then his "strongest town read" is turtle with his 3 total posts

Just noticed this. I told you last game you were biased towards high frequency posting, which was true. That would be if I gave Somnus a townread (I didn't). In fact I gave 2 townreads/townleans in total, out of 8 other players. The rest were either no read or scumleans.

I am pretty sure that your critique of my play was not just on high frequency posters, and especially after my early Day 1 reads list you called me out for handing out town reads "like candy," too early, and for players that, in your opinion, had not done anything alignment indicative yet.

[Lukewarm]

I think you might be town B)

You're be correct.

Was your post "no, r u?" when asked if you were town just a joke post?

For context for other people, Marci and I are friends, and we generally ask each other point blank each game if the other is mafia. (Almost like a running joke ?)

I actually messed up asking my question, and asked if she was town instead of it she was scum. My immediate assumption when I saw her response was that she did not realize that I had swapped the question around, and answered the usual question. So I did not really get that bothered by it.

But I do find it weird now that she appears to be doubling down on it being an intentional joke post.

[Lukewarm]

I townread Alianna.

I town read this post lol

[Lukewarm]

@Luke - your feedback on this would be helpful
I think his last reply was reasonable
but I'm open for second opinions
it's hard to step outside myself for this one

Spoiler: Y U NO PARANOID FURTIVE?

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

it really bothers me that you aren't paranoid I'm scum again

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

You're acting like I townread you in that game. I didn't, remember, you gave me bad vibes. Here you seem a bit more serious/gamesolving.

nope, your reads in that game are irrelevant
I'm having a hard time seeing how you see enough difference already to townlean me

Last game you townread a lot of people. This game you seem more investigative/paranoid/scumhunting.

I feel like his read on you is the less interesting one? I think you seem fairly townie as well, at least for this early in the game.

But his other town reads bother me after making such a big deal ALL GAME last game telling me that I was town reading people too easily. And then his "strongest town read" is turtle with his 3 total posts

Just noticed this. I told you last game you were biased towards high frequency posting, which was true. That would be if I gave Somnus a townread (I didn't). In fact I gave 2 townreads/townleans in total, out of 8 other players. The rest were either no read or scumleans.

I am pretty sure that your critique of my play was not just on high frequency posters, and especially after my early Day 1 reads list you called me out for handing out town reads "like candy," too early, and for players that, in your opinion, had not done anything alignment indicative yet.

Yes. Townreading is subjective and always will be. I disagreed last game. If you don't townread Mr Turtle that's fine. I do, and I explained why.

I am not going to keep engaging with you on this at the moment.

This aspect at least feels like last game, where you completely and totally miss the point I make when I explain why I am suspicious of something you do. It is kind of annoying to interact with, but probably means you are +town this game. That seems like a very strange interactional quirk for you to be focused on replicating.

[Lukewarm]

I am not going to keep engaging with you on this at the moment.

This aspect at least feels like last game, where you completely and totally miss the point I make when I explain why I am suspicious of something you do. It is kind of annoying to interact with, but probably means you are +town this game. That seems like a very strange interactional quirk for you to be focused on replicating.

Annoying does not seem like the right word. I would like to adjust that to frustrating.

Frustrating, because I very much don't like the feeling of people not understanding what I am trying to say, but I also remember last game where we went in circles and it not getting resolved, so it feels like the best thing to do is to just let it sit with me feeling like you never understood my point.

[Lukewarm]

Actually regretting spoiling that it’s based on post count now instead of letting you think it was based on your current alignment. A blown opportunity on my part.

I knew for sure it wasn't your role, don't worry about that (I'm Rolecop not Goon)

Imagine saying that, then winning the game as an actual mafia rolecop. I don't have much experience, so I don't believe I can read people on day 1. Can't say causing chaos on day 1 makes someone scum, since that day matters the least. From where I'm standing everyone is just tying themselves into a knot. Guess I'll vote, just because everyone else is.

VOTE: Somnus

Sorry if this has already been answered later on and I have not gotten to it yet - but, @PPP, was this a completely random vote?

It looks that way since none of the content of the post has anything to do with Somnus - but actually Furtive - but also we are 200 posts into the game, so rvs votes are not ideal any more

[Lukewarm]

Big fan of Turtles's 182

Spoiler:

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on,

I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

After what fact?

The day 1 vote will give us a flip. I will use that to analyse day 1.

In your opinion, would you say "clumsy and awkward" entrance posts are more likely to be town or mafia?

No opinion on that like I said, just giving TTTT what they wanted.

So what is your plan for day 1 while you wait for a flip?

I will probably wait for a wagon to form, then defend the person getting voted/question the people on the wagon

I understand that from the perspective of a newer player it may seem like there isn't much to go off of during day 1, but just waiting on D1 until a wagon forms doesn't help advance town in any way. D1 is usually the hardest day-phase, because it's about creating content without actually having much content to go off of. Hence why RVS is a good way to get the game started.

I don't get your point about defending the person getting voted? Will you defend them regardless of your read on them?

Scratch that, I will give some very primitive reads, on order of how town I think a player is.

My biggest townread is Mr Turtle. They seem quite frank in a way that mafia might not be on day 1.

Also townlean on TTTT, seem to be trying to advance the game.

I will stay neutral on Somnus, they have said nothing about the game so far.

Lukewarm has said eww twice and nothing else, so no read.

Marci has not arrived yet - no read.

Alianna had a strange interaction with TTTT at the start, I will say no read because it wasn't really game related but could be nervous mafia or nervous town. Either way nervous

PimpPestPlay has seemed a bit blendy so far, almost like they want to be ignored in some posts. I will need more substance from them, for now it is a tentative scumlean.

BigTerp asked if I was cop in one of their first posts, which seems strange. Did they really not know I was joking about being a Rolecop? And do they really not know what the difference between Cop and Rolecop is alignment-wise? They insist on having no confusion but have given me some confusion so far. It could be that they aren't a native speaker/are new to this website/setup?
For now it's a tentative scumlean.

I'm glad you shared some initial reads. I have a couple questions though.

Why is mafia not frank on day 1?

Do you reckon that Somnus not saying anything about the game but still having a high amount of posts is alignment-indicative in any way?
Could PImPestPlay be blendy because they're new & nervous? Why are they a scum-lean?

I'm glad that you shared your reads and it makes me want to town-lean you. Some of your reasonings I don't see or agree with, but that's fine considering that it's early on and that they're bare-boned.

Especially the line that I highlighted. Would not expect a newbie scum to undercut a town read handed to them for a fairly weak reason.

I just saw that I misread Turtle's join date, and it was in 2020, not 2021. This is probably a weaker point if they have been around, but I do still like it.

[Lukewarm]

Big fan of Turtles's 182

Spoiler:

Hey furtive
can you tell me who between Alanna and PimP
has a scummier entrance so far
and why?
yeah I know it's super early
but I need to see how you are thinking

I can't really read entrances like you seem to think you can. I will say this though, it was interesting that Alianna gave some ground in 52 and 54 when I would probably have told you to get lost. Town can be self-aware as well as mafia however.

As for PP (lol), their entrance seemed (again in a self-aware way) clumsy and awkward - 'Can't delete posts, right?'.

None of this is really something I would form reads on,

I prefer to analyse after the fact.

One thing I want to make sure of in this game is that the day 1 elimination actually provides some information, rather than people ganging up on a player for something random (ofmercia flashbacks).

After what fact?

The day 1 vote will give us a flip. I will use that to analyse day 1.

In your opinion, would you say "clumsy and awkward" entrance posts are more likely to be town or mafia?

No opinion on that like I said, just giving TTTT what they wanted.

So what is your plan for day 1 while you wait for a flip?

I will probably wait for a wagon to form, then defend the person getting voted/question the people on the wagon

I understand that from the perspective of a newer player it may seem like there isn't much to go off of during day 1, but just waiting on D1 until a wagon forms doesn't help advance town in any way. D1 is usually the hardest day-phase, because it's about creating content without actually having much content to go off of. Hence why RVS is a good way to get the game started.

I don't get your point about defending the person getting voted? Will you defend them regardless of your read on them?

Scratch that, I will give some very primitive reads, on order of how town I think a player is.

My biggest townread is Mr Turtle. They seem quite frank in a way that mafia might not be on day 1.

Also townlean on TTTT, seem to be trying to advance the game.

I will stay neutral on Somnus, they have said nothing about the game so far.

Lukewarm has said eww twice and nothing else, so no read.

Marci has not arrived yet - no read.

Alianna had a strange interaction with TTTT at the start, I will say no read because it wasn't really game related but could be nervous mafia or nervous town. Either way nervous

PimpPestPlay has seemed a bit blendy so far, almost like they want to be ignored in some posts. I will need more substance from them, for now it is a tentative scumlean.

BigTerp asked if I was cop in one of their first posts, which seems strange. Did they really not know I was joking about being a Rolecop? And do they really not know what the difference between Cop and Rolecop is alignment-wise? They insist on having no confusion but have given me some confusion so far. It could be that they aren't a native speaker/are new to this website/setup?
For now it's a tentative scumlean.

I'm glad you shared some initial reads. I have a couple questions though.

Why is mafia not frank on day 1?

Do you reckon that Somnus not saying anything about the game but still having a high amount of posts is alignment-indicative in any way?
Could PImPestPlay be blendy because they're new & nervous? Why are they a scum-lean?

I'm glad that you shared your reads and it makes me want to town-lean you. Some of your reasonings I don't see or agree with, but that's fine considering that it's early on and that they're bare-boned.

Especially the line that I highlighted. Would not expect a newbie scum to undercut a town read handed to them for a fairly weak reason.

I just saw that I misread Turtle's join date, and it was in 2020, not 2021. This is probably a weaker point if they have been around, but I do still like it.

Back again to amend this. Just checked how many games they have, and despite joining in 2020, they have not been in game. Looks like they have exactly 1 newbie game before this, and they did not play much in there.

[Lukewarm]

@lukewarm

I know you were anxiously waiting for Marci to join the game so you could get an early read on her. What are your initial thoughts?

Initial thoughts are kinda Meh, but not conclusive.

Marci is fairly easy to read really early in a game, during a lot of real time interactions. But those just never happened this game, so I did not get what I was hoping for with her.

So, Null Scum

[Lukewarm]

TTTT - You are entirely unreadable.

Is this because of just this game, or have you played with TTTT before?

[Lukewarm]

Somnus - Similar reasons to Mr Turtle.

Somnus didn't make the posts Mr Turtle made - do you mean gut feeling again?

Mostly.

Beware, this player is a known bamboozler as mafia.

Do you scum read Somnus, or are you just undercutting Alianna's town read there?

[Lukewarm]

Does anyone seem scummy to you?

Are you talking to me or someone else?

WAIT OOPS-
I meant to you but anyone can respond ig

Yes, I didn't really like

furtiveglance

's answers to my questions in posts 103 & 110 as well as his mindset 114 & 117. To me it seems that he doesn't want to solve the game because it's day 1 and hides between a curtain of meta by saying "but last game we mis-eliminated on day 1!". However his reads list in 131 was good. He does a full 180 following 130 and puts an effort in to solve, it seems. The actual reads list is hedgy, but I attribute that more to newness than scumminess. Tonally I feel like he's been a bit stiff and forced, as I believe you and Lukewarm already previously pointed out (224 or 8, for example). I'll be honest and say that I have little idea whether his newness is clouding my judgement. Currently, I have him as a scum-lean.

PlmPestPlaY

has the least amount of posts. He OMGUS' Somnus, makes a couple of statements I didn't really get in 201. I hope we can convince him to post a bit more and be more confident, else he'll remain completely unreadable. His lack of posting is

probably

due to this being his first forum game - I've been in the exact same place not even that long ago; however there's always the possibility of him being an overwhelmed mafia. He's in the null range for me, but I'd love to see a bit more thoughts even if they're basic and bare-boned.

I'm a bit wary of you,

marcistar

. I don't get whether the latter part of 208 is a joke or not, but being vague makes it much harder to read you and not voting does too. Being able to double down on a take because you formulated it vague on purpose rarely helps the town and it's hard to know where you're at regarding your reads. I also agree with BigTerp's take on you with regards to the vague questions. Asking questions is completely valid and fine - I've done so a lot as well - but I'm missing the part where you draw conclusions from the answers that you've gotten and share them with the thread. However I did like your post in 169. You seemed to be putting effort into the game and the case on furtiveglance is the most well thought-out case this game. I just don't get why you wouldn't vote him after saying you find him scummy and casing him? I get that you want to make sure that you like the vote (208), but you seemed to have built a rather convincing case on him. At the moment, you seem the scummiest to me. Maybe you could explain to me why you asked the questions and what you got out of the answers (198, 158 etc.)? How do you plan on solving this game, what's your approach? It would be appreciated.

VOTE: marcistar

This is probably the towniest post I have read so far this game. Congratulations Mr. Turtle.

[Lukewarm]

Throwing votes at people is a good way to get conversation going, especially day 1. I'm not sure anyone has solid scum reads at this point. No need to wait until your 100% convinced of that to put your vote down.

I have seen Marci's lack of vote brought up a lot, so I thought I would let everyone know that a lack of vote is NAI for Marci. I don't particularly agree with the approach, but it is consistent across multiple games I have played with her.

I have also seen it brought up, and also seen people do meta checks on her to see that she really does just play that way

I checked around Marci's topics and found a newbie game where town!Marci didn't vote until after post 500...

Marci

[Lukewarm]

Does anyone seem scummy to you?

Are you talking to me or someone else?

WAIT OOPS-
I meant to you but anyone can respond ig

Yes, I didn't really like

furtiveglance

's answers to my questions in posts 103 & 110 as well as his mindset 114 & 117. To me it seems that he doesn't want to solve the game because it's day 1 and hides between a curtain of meta by saying "but last game we mis-eliminated on day 1!". However his reads list in 131 was good. He does a full 180 following 130 and puts an effort in to solve, it seems. The actual reads list is hedgy, but I attribute that more to newness than scumminess. Tonally I feel like he's been a bit stiff and forced, as I believe you and Lukewarm already previously pointed out (224 or 8, for example). I'll be honest and say that I have little idea whether his newness is clouding my judgement. Currently, I have him as a scum-lean.

PlmPestPlaY

has the least amount of posts. He OMGUS' Somnus, makes a couple of statements I didn't really get in 201. I hope we can convince him to post a bit more and be more confident, else he'll remain completely unreadable. His lack of posting is

probably

due to this being his first forum game - I've been in the exact same place not even that long ago; however there's always the possibility of him being an overwhelmed mafia. He's in the null range for me, but I'd love to see a bit more thoughts even if they're basic and bare-boned.

I'm a bit wary of you,

marcistar

. I don't get whether the latter part of 208 is a joke or not, but being vague makes it much harder to read you and not voting does too. Being able to double down on a take because you formulated it vague on purpose rarely helps the town and it's hard to know where you're at regarding your reads. I also agree with BigTerp's take on you with regards to the vague questions. Asking questions is completely valid and fine - I've done so a lot as well - but I'm missing the part where you draw conclusions from the answers that you've gotten and share them with the thread. However I did like your post in 169. You seemed to be putting effort into the game and the case on furtiveglance is the most well thought-out case this game. I just don't get why you wouldn't vote him after saying you find him scummy and casing him? I get that you want to make sure that you like the vote (208), but you seemed to have built a rather convincing case on him. At the moment, you seem the scummiest to me. Maybe you could explain to me why you asked the questions and what you got out of the answers (198, 158 etc.)? How do you plan on solving this game, what's your approach? It would be appreciated.

VOTE: marcistar

this post gives me the heebie jeebies but I cannot articulate why
I know how scummy it looks to say this
but there it is

huh.

Exact opposite responses lol

Can you talk more about that?

[Lukewarm]

I see that TTTT already elaborated, I don't agree, but I see it was already answered.

[Lukewarm]

Taking a break for dinner, but the promised reads list is still coming tonight lol

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:

I am not comfortable with a E1 here.

[Lukewarm]

On my initial read through, I have a town pile of Turtle, Alianna, and TTTT --- Although, I don' know how I feel about him encouraging an E-1 vote right now.

Gonna give the other players a closer look (literally right now) before I put my vote back in play

[Lukewarm]

I'm not doing a whole long reads list
not really my thing
and I already said I pretty much completely agree with Turtle's list
right now the day1 elim should be in:
furtive
Luke
Marci
PPP

Luke probably has the charisma to avoid a day1 elim (and is a likely N1 kill if he is town and starts showing it)
furtive I feel pretty confident can be sorted later
so unless something changes (which it probably will with 7 days left) I'd like wagons to build on Marci and PPP

Can you tell me why BigTerp and Somnus are pulled off of you day 1 lim pile

[Lukewarm]

Started working through the isos of people not in my town pile, planning to do everyone, but found scum before I finished my list

BigTerp

Did not like his entrance 101/102/108 - discussed before

Most of his iso feels empty. Like so much of it is talking about whether or not we should be talking about prior games, that it is completely overshadowing any thoughts he might have about this game - which is kinda ironic tbh.

The things that give me pause are 207 and 251 because they are exactly my reactions to those same posts [see 291 and 300 from my own iso. Like eerily similar to the point where I might have suspected him mirroring my posts if his did not come before mine lol.

Somnus

Reading his iso, his first 22 posts say nothing at all. That is a lot of posts to make, for it to say nothing.

There is a latch onto BigTerp's entrance [135 136 139 147 156 172 186 (in spoiler below)] - then more nothing posts [140 148 149 154] before a "prod vote"

This is scum.

Post 187 / Iso 34 ---- He is at prod votes, with no thoughts or reasons. Even looking at his interactions with BigTerp - no hint at thinking that BigTerp is scum making up a reason to scum read him.

Spoiler:

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

In 92 I was joking about the tags under our usernames.

Gotcha. Although joking like that can create confusion. Who likes confusion in a game or Mafia? SCUM!! I've still got you as a town read though, for now.

Speaking of confusion, the first page or two had a lot of talk about a previous game or 2. Seems like a few of you were already in a game together, which is fine. But talk that like, again, is prime for causing confusion. Further cements my thoughts (scum lean) on Somnus and raises my eyebrow towards TTTT.

Welcome but like...this is such a weird post. I pointed out in my first post that there were a lot of players from newbie 2088 in this game. Then furtive and TTTT very briefly asked about my other game I played on here in which I was scum. I guess in your world I should have just ignored their questions?

Sorry, hit submit with my fat thumb before I finished my thoughts.

I've got furtiveglance as a town lean, but am a bit confused with post #92. Are you claiming Town Cop there?

Somnus leaning scum is just an early gut feel.

VOTE: SOMNUS

He made a joke about being mafia role cop and you’re asking if he hard claimed town cop? Am I reading this correctly? I’m having a hard time believing you legit misread things in your catch-up this much.

Yeah. Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd. Not to mention thinking that furtive hard-claimed town cop less than 24 hours into the game after jokingly stating he was mafia role cop. Enough about power roles. This is a bad idea.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

Hoping to hear more from lukewarm, Mr Turtle, and Pimpest (as well as for marcistar to join) so I have a complete roster to make initial reads of.

Hard hard disagree. Stuff like that (in the first two pages, no less when like 4 people out of 9 were here) helps sort people’s experience/play style. That’s the opposite of confusion. You scum-read me for it but gave the two players asking questions about previous games a null and/or townread for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Discussing previous games is unproductive, IMO. Understanding players experience level is a different story and something that is helpful. No need to discuss how someone played previously as Mafia, or vanilla town, etc. though.

So TTTT and furtive get a scum-lean for asking me about my previous scum-game then, correct? And I'd get a town-read if I ignored their questions and told them it wasn't productive? Like...lol what even is this logic.

It was something to get things moving for me early day one. It just seemed odd, as I'm not used to so much discussion about previous games, especially when it directly effects the current game. Maybe it's just that things have changed in that respect since I last played. But especially for a newbie game, I don't see how it's productive. And I certainly am not going to dig back through previous games to try and gain Intel.

That's fine if you choose not to dig through people's ISOs from previous games.

You know what else gets things moving early in Day 1? Discussing people's experience/play-style.

Lukewarm, if you think I'm playing differently it could be because this is a new game. The first 100 posts had a more jokey/relaxed feel. You should also bear in mind that this is my second game on the site so my playstyle is not yet formed.

Exactly. There were 4 of us here (5 if you include Luke's 1 post) when the game started and we were mostly joking around, as well as me answering questions about the only other game I've played on-site. So I don't understand this notion that I haven't said anything game-related. Everything I've said after the first 12 hours after the game started has been game-related.

Hilariously, asking those questions apparently got you town-read, but answering them got me scum-read because logic.

BigTerp's entrance is "weird" - not scummy.

Like I’m cool with the vote on me, but the logic used behind it, as well as the immediate town-read on furtive (not a shot at furtive, btw) for the exact same thing is absurd

The "logic used behind" the vote on him is "absurd" but never questioned as scummy / fake.

His whole reaction feels more like scum who thinks they are catching flak for rediculous reasons, then a townie trying to sort through to determine BigTerp's alignment.

-----

I will keep doing the other people to give a full reads list, but I am happy with

VOTE: Somnus

[Lukewarm]

PPP

Looking at his ISO, I actually think he is town? Which surprised me going in.

The OMGUS vote on Somnus is common coming from a newbie as either alignment, but I feel like newbie scum would less likely to come out and say "Somnus voted me so I returned the favor." 255

"I'll vote, just because everyone else is" 201 also feels like the kind of thing that scum would actively be avoiding trying to say.

I also feel like he does not look like he has a scum buddy. Like in the, he does not look like he has someone talking to him behind the scenes kind of way.

Not a lot going on in the ISO, but this looks more like newbie town then scum to me.

Marci

Marci has promised more content tonight, so I kinda want to hold off comitting to a read on her.

So far her iso could be scum marci, or it could be marci who is busy irl.

Hopefully when she has time tonight, it will be easier to see.

Furtive

I find him scummy, but I also feel like it could be a repeat of last game, where I scum read him REALLY hard. So I am gonna be hedgely on him, and let him sit more in thread for a while I think.

If this was my first game with him, he would likely be a stronger scum read atm

[Lukewarm]

Luke's Pretty Day One Reads List

Turtle, Alianna

TTTT, PPP

Marci, Furtive

Big Terp

Somnus

[Lukewarm]

I'm not doing a whole long reads list
not really my thing
and I already said I pretty much completely agree with Turtle's list
right now the day1 elim should be in:
furtive
Luke
Marci
PPP

Luke probably has the charisma to avoid a day1 elim (and is a likely N1 kill if he is town and starts showing it)
furtive I feel pretty confident can be sorted later
so unless something changes (which it probably will with 7 days left) I'd like wagons to build on Marci and PPP

Can you tell me why BigTerp and Somnus are pulled off of you day 1 lim pile

I would really like the answer to this now that I have reviewed the two of them, because... They definitely should not be off the table for you right now

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:

I am not comfortable with a E1 here.

Why not? Nervous of a quick hammer? That would be the biggest mafia tell, especially day 1. IMO and experience playing this game, putting pressure on people with votes is one of the best ways to garner information.

FWIW, you being the first one on Marci star then pulling your vote once at E-1 raises my eyebrows a bit.

Because I was on an e-1 wagon of someone that I was not really scum reading - it was still my RVS vote tbh - and I was actively in the middle of doing a catch up, and wanted to let my vote move once I had done that.

Why do you (or TTTT who also asked about it) think that I should have left my vote in place in that situation?

[Lukewarm]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

[Lukewarm]

I realize that my vote on Somnus was kinda buried in my flurry of catch up posts, but I really think that people should give that in particular a closer look. TTTT mentioned wanting dueling wagons, well I propose that Somnus be the counter wagon

[Lukewarm]

I hadn't ISO'd Somnus
but now I have and you have a point
I started TRing him after his back and forth with furtive
191
219
223
but yeah...

VOTE: marcistar

Marci is now at E-1.
That means the next vote for Marci is the hammer that ends the day.
Nobody should hammer until first giving "intent to hammer" and allowing Marci to claim a role and to let other players unvote if they aren't ready for the day to end.
An early hammer vote will be taken as a scumclaim.

I really wanted competing wagons
but since people don't wanna vote I'll settle for this

I in particular, don't like this coming from TTTT.

He looked at my case, said that I had a point, said that he has been in favor of dueling wagons, but instead of joining me - he is gonna "settle" for joining the biggest wagon happening.

-

@TTTT - Why are you not putting Somnus back on the table if you agree with me once you look at his ISO?

[Lukewarm]

I am also excited about Marcistar potentially being mafia, so if I had to vote now that's where I would vote. Do not take this as intent to hammer though because I want to hear more from them before they go, in case they are town.

What happened to defending the first wagon that hit e-1?

My townreads are on this one. My biggest scumread (PPP) is not.

So do you scum read Marci, or are you just considering sheeping your town reads?

"Excited about Marcistar potentially being Mafia" is an interesting phrasing lol

[Lukewarm]

Good point here. Although I feel like TTTT has a similar thought process as myself in that getting votes on someone that you think is scum is the best way to gather information from them, and to a lesser extent, others in the game. Marci had the biggest momentum and Somnus has pretty much zero. If I'm reading both as scum I'm putting my vote on the one with the current momentum to get them talking and hopefully revealing something that further indicates scum or helps their case as town.

This is fine in general - but it piqued my interest mainly because he has repeatedly said he wanted dueling wagons.

Speaking of, ending the day with 2 main wagons, and getting everyone to choose between the two is better for information then just having one big wagon. So wanting dueling wagons is a good mindset too.

[Lukewarm]

I fundamentally disagree that survivalism is scummy. I have never, in any game, as any alignment, rolled over and accepted my elimination.

As scum, I obviously don't want to be eliminated

As town, I am the only person that I know is 100% town [barring Masons], so eliminating me is 100% a town miselimination, but saving myself, and having someone else die changes it to a 2/8 chance of a scum elimination.

A 100% town elim is worse then a 75% chance on a town elimination. My win condition requires me to try and save myself regardless of my alignment, so imo, survivalism is NAI

[Lukewarm]

@PPP

This site has banned the use of the word "Lynch" because of the history of the term in real life. Please refrain from using it.

Common alternatives are eliminate, lim, elim, and yeet

[Lukewarm]

Agreed, but I feel like you speak as if there has to be an elimination.

Not eliminating is almost always a bad idea.

[The main exception being when the game hits an even number of players (doc/jailkeeper save for example) and the game reaches Miseliminate or Lose / MeLo - the you no elim to get back to an odd number of players]

If we fail to eliminate anyone, it is a pretty big failure on the part of the town.

[Lukewarm]

Waw. It appears to be true, at least for this type of setup. Given what I've learned, I am now a lot less interested in the game for some reason. Sooo eeeh double wappa? VOTE: Somnus

Town wins by killing the Mafia. If there are 6 town left alive, or if there are two town left alive, it does not matter.

The only way we can kill the Mafia is to vote them out.

We have 3 misses before we have lost the game
7v2 today
5v2 after 1 miss
3v2 after 2 misses
1v2 (and officially lost) after the third miss.

If we do not kill anyone today, then we have 2 misses before we have lost the game
7v2 today
6v2 after a no elim
4v2 after 1 miss
2v2 and officially lost after 2 misses

----

Thinking about the game in the number of misses we have is how I like to think about a game.

If we kill Mafia today, we still have 3 misses.
If we kill town today, we have 2 misses AND the scummiest town player is off the table.
If we no kill today, we have 3 misses and the scummiest town player is still floating around to be miseliminated later.

Killing Mafia is obviously ideal, but killing scummy town is better then not doing anything.

And that is ignoring the benefit of seeing who voted for who, which definitely helps us actually finding Mafia later on.

[Lukewarm]

Countdown: 6 days, 3 hours, 28 minutes

[Lukewarm]

Ending the day is about the most opposite from jump starting the thread as you can get lol

[Lukewarm]

I have thoughts about Marci's post 385

Anyone else notice something here?

I was originally gonna give it some time to simmer, but apparently there is not time for that

[Lukewarm]

I have a point that I noticed off hand when I read the post - but give me ~10 mins, I wanna grab some stuff to cross reference.

[Lukewarm]

Actually, started pulling stuff, and then felt like it was gonna take too much effort lmao.

She is on the brink of elimination, and asked "who do you think would be a better elim then you" and her answer was Furtive > Alianna / Turtle. Alianna and Turtle are possibly the most town read players in the game? (this was the thing that I was starting to pull. Compile everyones reads on every other slot. But then gave up).

And then you, who despite having people voice concerns on you, there are multiple people actively avoiding your elimination today (me and TTTT) - if we are both against killing you today, whose votes is she getting to push you through?

-------

Why did she not point the finger at PPP? He could have the votes: TTTT, BigTerp, Turtle, Somnus. That is 4 people saying that PPPP is "the best elim" or "I'd be willing to vote" or placing them at the bottom of their reads list, which add Marci, thats an elim.

Why not point the finger at Somnus [that is the current leading counter wagon] and let me lead an elim that saves her?

------

Basically, a statement of Furtive, Turtle, and Alianna as her scum reads, without big moves to make a wagon happen on any of them, is a terrible list of names to present if she wants to save herself. Scum could name anyone they want, and had much better choices. Wown would name the people they are actually suspicious of.

I don't think that this is a slam dunk Marci is town case (or I would have made it the moment I saw it) - but it is enough that I am not ready for her to be hammered right now.

I mentioned earlier that I had planned to let it simmer, because I wanted to see if she shifted focus to one of the other players given a little bit of time, but thats not a thing that can happen any more.

[Lukewarm]

So basically:
Is she Scum, who is defensive and just trying to avoid being eliminated - but then named a list of names that never saves her?
Or is she town, who is defensive and demotivated - and named a list of names of the people she is actually suspicious of?

[Lukewarm]

So basically:
Is she Scum, who is defensive and just trying to avoid being eliminated - but then named a list of names that never saves her?
Or is she town, who is defensive and demotivated - and named a list of names of the people she is actually suspicious of?

I really don't like this Luke
we wanted and were promised your read on marci once she got active
but this is looking like you are trying to save her without actually going out on a limb trying to save her
it would be suprememely helpful to have your read on her play so far, based on your experience with her
yes I know I spelled that wrong it was for increased emphaphasis

Luke
to get you jumpstarted here are some questions:
1) as town does marci usually take this long to develop actual reads?
2) as town does marci ignore pressure?
3) as town does marci often have reads outside the mainstream of the other players?

It is hard to come out and case my nullest read in the game. But she is the one sitting at e-1, so here we are. I can see glimmers of town, like I mentioned wrt to her scum list, but it would not blow my mind if she flipped scum.

Yes, I am hedgely, and sorry about that. But I just don't have a strong read on every player in the game. Some people land in null /unsure.

To answer your question

1) Yes. She holds off before she commits to a vote in almost every game I have been in with her, unless something really pinged her early.

2) I am not sure how you are defining "ignoring pressure."

3) Sure?

But, I think the important part of these questions was: yes, I have seen Marci play fairly similar to this as town and get miselimed for it. If she is busy irl, she can get disconnected from games, and if she gets a lot of pressure she can get demotivated.

Best example off the top of my head was SirCakez Divide and Conquer game, where I feel like she got a lot of flack for basically the same reasons she is here.

So, I can see this coming from town Marci - but I don't think it automatically makes her town either.

I am sitting about as on the fence with this read as is physically possible. Which probably is not super helpful. But, I would rather kill Somnus over Marci here. After the last page or so from Furtive, I would actually rather kill Furtive over Marci here as well.

[Lukewarm]

@marci
is 2061 your only Newbie scumgame?

I played against scum Marci in another newbie game, so I know she has another. I can see if I can find it.

[Lukewarm]

Best example off the top of my head was SirCakez Divide and Conquer game, where I feel like she got a lot of flack for basically the same reasons she is here.

Here are some quotes from town Marci, on Day 3, just before she is miseliminated that game

Spoiler:

Subject: Micro 1010: Divide and Conquer: Round 2 - Game Over!

you haven't exactly been a model of certainty yourself

yes ik i wish i was more confident

Subject: Micro 1010: Divide and Conquer: Round 2 - Game Over!

are you saying you played similar to your last scum game then? why would you do that as town?

i think its pretty similar, tho it wasnt intentional.. if the shoe fits the shoe fits yknow?

Why do you think you've played the same as last game?
Because that wasn't really the impression I was getting from people from that game

the biggest similarity i think is that i dont have good reads that im confident in

She is being called out for uncertainty, not committing to reads, ect

And she just goes :shrug: sorry I don't have reads I'm confident in, and then obviously that did not sway the other players, and so she dies.

[Lukewarm]

Here is the other newbie game

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=87122

[Lukewarm]

do you know each other IRL?

We met on Mafiascum, but we have sense added each other on Discord and talk semi-regularly.

So, I am friends with Marci, but never met irl.

[Lukewarm]

you two played as a hydra in a game that ended barely a month ago
so that's one reason I don't love the mutual null reads

I have played a lot of games with Marci, and I have a pretty mixed bag on reading her.

--Correct Reads--

Divide and Conquer game I just linked, I was sure she was town and was defending her all the way to the point she got miselimed despite my efforts.

Our Isekai uPick game, I was sure she was scum and pushed her hard even when other people thought she was town.

--Incorrect Reads--

Our Shakespeare uPick game I was banging pots and pans together trying to get her eliminated, but she was town

The newbie game you linked, I defended her all the way up to MeLo - and only won because I finally decided to just sheep the other confirmed town

--No Reads--
The newbie game I mentioned just now, she was in my null reads to slight town leaning with reservations, for basically the whole game

-------

Sorry if you expected me to have some reliable tell to read her on in games, but I don't. The one exception being her early real time interactions can sometimes be a bit weak when she is scum, but I did not get any of those from her this game to look at, so not helpful

[Lukewarm]

@marci
is 2061 your only Newbie scumgame?

you two played as a hydra in a game that ended barely a month ago
so that's one reason I don't love the mutual null reads

I am ready to town lock TTTT all the way to Elo (where obviously he should be reconsidered if he is alive at that point) for this.

I never see this much meta work from Scum unless they are desperate. There is no reason for Scum TTTT to be digging through Marci's past scum games here, or whatever he did to find our hydra game either.

[Lukewarm]

Was kinda hoping to give Morbid a chance to get into the thread, but...

@Morbid. Don't feel like you have to read the entire game before you start talking.

I would prioritize. Reading Marci's iso is probably your most important place to start, she is 1 vote from being eliminated, and you are voting her. Read just her iso, then post your thoughts about her.

Then you can either just start engaging with posts after your rep in, or pick another player (either Somnus for being the second wagon, or someone that caught you attention either in current stuff or while reading Marci's iso)

[Lukewarm]

And yes, as far as the blue, I thought about posting here asking what the most readable color would be when replying to specific comments in a wall-post. If you have any recommendations, I'm all ears.

In general, I avoid colors because there are several back ground colors that people can use, and so different colors appear differently to everyone. (I am on mafia black, and so that blue shows up really clearly for me for example).


I would recommend strip quoting instead. Find the big post you want to engage with, hit the quote button, and then while you are on the preview page, make liberal use of the quote button at the top - right next to the Bold/Itallics/Underline button. This will give you several instances of quote boxes with the og persons quote, and your comments outside of the quote boxes

[Lukewarm]

You just highlight the next part, hit that quote button, and it will add the tags around it for you. Giving you something like this:

Spoiler:

Updated readslist: In this list I am looking through ISOs and noting what catches my eye.

Lukewarm

: Is giving a lot of analysis which I love. Even if Lukewarm is mafia, they are greatly helping town with their gamesolving, and it doesn't seem fake/unsubstantiated/badly-motivated to me. They chose to scumread Somnus who is not an easy push, rather than just double down on Marcistar/PPP/me, who seemed to be the collective scumreads at the time. Lukewarm is my biggest townread.

Respond to this

BigTerp

: This player gives me a lot of thought. After an awkward start, they have grown into the game. I don't know whether I am happy about this or concerned by it. I do strongly agree with their reads in 436. They are clearly biased towards high frequency posting which I think could be a town tell, as mafia probably wouldn't defer to post count for their reads so openly. BigTerp gets a townread from me. I was on the fence, but they are not in my scumpool anymore.

Respond to this

TTTT

: I am conflicted now. I was townreading them because they seemed to be playing differently to last game, but I don't like that they tried to play executioner in 308. Of those people, I'm not mafia, I don't think Lukewarm is mafia and the other two were just the easiest targets at the time. There hasn't been enough explaining of thoughts from TTTT. Why was it that you drew up a list of 4 potential elims, and how did you arrive at those names?
I still townlean TTTT, but I am less sure after their erratic posting, and I agree they are guilty of LAMIST posting. I disagree that TTTT should be locked town for 415. Mafia can put effort in as well

Respond to this

Mr Turtle

: 98 , 109, 182, 202 and 389 are easy posts for anyone to make - questioning game strategy, questioning reasons for reads. This is limited in its usefulness - yes these questions make other players think and second-guess reads, but this kind of posting does not help me townread Mr Turtle. I would prefer to see more analysis and opinion of their own. As for their reads in 228 and 276 , I like that they gave scumreads first; the most important thing is to find mafia. They gave a fair criticism of my 'defend all wagons' strategy, which I see now is fairly dumb. I agree with these scumreads (of PPP and Marcistar) but not with their reasoning. Turtle wants PPP to be more 'confident' and says they made some posts which Turtle 'didn't get' - those aren't good reasons to scumread someone in my opinion. Turtle's main issue with Marcistar was that they didn't vote for me despite scumcasing me - this could just be Marci's playstyle. I had Turtle as a townread earlier but I think they are back in the null range.

ect

[Lukewarm]

TTTT

: I am conflicted now. I was townreading them because they seemed to be playing differently to last game, but I don't like that they tried to play executioner in 308. Of those people, I'm not mafia, I don't think Lukewarm is mafia and the other two were just the easiest targets at the time. There hasn't been enough explaining of thoughts from TTTT. Why was it that you drew up a list of 4 potential elims, and how did you arrive at those names?

I still townlean TTTT, but I am less sure after their erratic posting, and I agree they are guilty of LAMIST posting. I disagree that TTTT should be locked town for 415. Mafia can put effort in as well

Subjectively disagree that he's playing differently than last game. That doesn't automatically or even likely make him scum in my eyes though. Far too many people are willingly going along with the executioner routine and not showing any autonomy whatsoever in their decisions of who/when to vote in this game. Two people who are blindly being town-read for rather minimal reasons don't get to dictate who the "dueling wagons" are, who you're allowed to vote for, or if/when you're allowed to declare intent to hammer. And yet, here we are. It's YOUR vote and not someone else's. This isn't directed exclusively at you, by the way, furtive.

Furtive: There are a lot of anti-town points made about TTTT here, but end with TTTT still as town. I think that TTTT is town, so :shrug: - but this is probably +town for furtive. Scum!Furtive would likely have one of these goals:
-Put TTTT back into the elim pool | but he is still calling him town
-Pocket TTTT | but he is calling him out for several things
-Just look town with the reads list | but this is fairly inconsistent.

So, it seems more likely that these are just the jumbled thoughts of a townie, then a crafted one made by scum imo

Somnus: Name names. I am getting big "what everyone is doing is bad and scary" energy, without the specifics to back it up. Did TTTT call for a Marci wagon? Yes. Did I call for a Somnus wagon? Yes
But who are the "Far too many people are willingly going along with the executioner routine and not showing any autonomy whatsoever in their decisions of who/when to vote in this game" ?

I seem to recall TTTT calling for Dueling PPP and Marci wagons, and him distinctly not getting that. I called for a Somnus wagon, and everyone ignored me at first except PPP, who did sheep me.

Lets look at where people's votes are currently: Turtle voted Marci in 228, with an explanation of why he thought she was suspicious. BigTerp voted Marci in 233 along side a reads list with Marci listed as his strongest scum read. Alianna voted Marci in 312, right after calling Marci her strongest scum read in 310. TTTT voted Marci after calling her scummy.

Furtive later voted you, but also put out this very reads list with you down at the bottom. I voted you after scum casing you

So again I ask you who are the "Far too many people are willingly going along with the executioner routine and not showing any autonomy whatsoever in their decisions of who/when to vote in this game" ? Just PPP?

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm

: Is giving a lot of analysis which I love. Even if Lukewarm is mafia, they are greatly helping town with their gamesolving, and it doesn't seem fake/unsubstantiated/badly-motivated to me. They chose to scumread Somnus who is not an easy push, rather than just double down on Marcistar/PPP/me, who seemed to be the collective scumreads at the time. Lukewarm is my biggest townread.

All 9 players should at the very least appear like they're trying to solve the game though. The fact that only a few do is a problem. And in your hypothetical, if Lukewarm is mafia, then their gamesolving would not benefit town, as it would be scum-motivated. Also, I would argue that I'm possibly the easiest push in the game, as two or three players have at least claimed that they do/previously scum-read me based on tone or having light-hearted fun at the very start of the game when barely anyone was here.

Furtive: Not a ton of thoughts - town reading me is correct, so if town, great. But I also feel like I am a person that scum would want to town read, especially after our last game, so :shrug:

Somnus: Don't like. This post seems rooted in theory, and not this actually game. Like, does Somnus think I am scum? Does Somnus think that I am town, but playing devil's advocate? Am I a null read? It is impossible to tell from Somnus's post, because he takes no stance. He just sows doubt. That frankly gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[Lukewarm]

I like Furtive's 466 specifically pointing back to his reads list. I would expect scum trying to appear to be active / sparking conversations to try and spark conversations about OTHER slots, and not their own. I guess unless they felt like they had a perfectly crafted post that no one was talking about, but I would not call his earlier reads list perfectly crafted to get town read (its not lol)

Updated readslist:

In this list I am looking through ISOs and noting what catches my eye

.

I feel like this is actually an important line that Somnus overlooked. He explicitly says that he is doing full iso rereads on all of the players before making these comments. So changing reads makes sense.

I would like Furtive to respond to Somnus points on Turtle though. Am curious about that as well

[Lukewarm]

My read on Furtive keeps shifting back and forth, but I am back at him being town.

[Lukewarm]

I oppose of the hammer prior to Dino posting again.

After that we can move forward I guess - but definitely let Dino weigh in before the wagon passes with them on it

[Lukewarm]

Also, saw two people comment on me giving tttt a town pass for that meta work.

It was distinctly more then just town read for effort. Yes scum can effort, and even do meta work. That was not the point.

Scum can do meta work to push through a town miselimin. Scum can do meta work to stop a scum elim. But I find scum way less likely to do meta work without reason / agenda.

If Marci is town, and TTTT is scum - he simply did not need to do it. She is likely the elim anyways. And to top it off, he did not even come back with any actionable meta findings on her.

If Marci is scum, and TTTT is scum - he could be on the Somnus wagon or out pushing a PPP wagon. Instead he is voting Marci. Also, he did not come back with any actionable meta findings on her.

You can disagree with me if you want, but this particular tell has literally never failed me so far (of course, once I mention it people can try to do it on purpose to bamboozle me). I used it to for T3 in this game, Zyla in this game, wanted to for ffery in this game (but did not trust it). All three of those were town.

So far, "you obviously did a lot of meta work for seemingly no good reason" has yet to let me down. (The seemingly no good reason is an IMPORTANT part of that take btw) - so unless something drastically changes from TTTT, I am happily town locking them for it

[Lukewarm]

the hydra game he mentioned that you forgot

Also, this never happened. I never forgot I was in a hydra with her, and he never accused me of that.

He basically said "I would expect you to have a read on her since you hydra'd with her recently" and I said "yeah, sorry. Don't have a great read on her."

--

I am fully aware that if Marci does flip scum, I look pretty bad from it (which is the actual implication from TTTT's point here).

[Lukewarm]

Random voting is technically the "better option" for playing mafia (except for MeLo as Luke has already said), but in more relaxed settings it is often seen as worse or "wrong-er".

This was not quite my point.

Random votes are kinda forced super early. Like pages 1-5. But no one should be casting random votes after page 5.

But you just kind of have to realized that some one NEEDS to be voted out every single day, except for MELo, and day 1 you are gonna have weaker reasons to go on - and do your best under those conditions - But don't random vote

[Lukewarm]

that slot is probably scum

Why do you say this?

Scum are statistically more likely to rep out then town. Not enough more so that you can reliably use it, but two replacemennts on the same slot this quickly doubles that statistic. It does not bode well for the slot.

Also though, Dino's tenure in the slot was individually kinda bad.

[Lukewarm]

@goldfish

Don't feel like you have to read the entire game before you start talking.

I would prioritize. Reading Marci's iso is probably your most important place to start, she is 1 vote from being eliminated, and you are voting her. Read just her iso, then post your thoughts about her.

Then you can either just start engaging with posts after your rep in, or pick another player (either Somnus for being the second wagon, or someone that caught you attention either in current stuff or while reading Marci's iso)

[Lukewarm]

And welcome to the game

[Lukewarm]

Don't worry too much a out scum reads on you. You are not in any danger of being eliminated here, so you'll have plenty to time to turn reads around.

I would suggest focusing on Marci since you are voting there right now

[Lukewarm]

Hey Marci, what is your read on me?

[Lukewarm]

Hey Marci, what is your read on me?

[Lukewarm]

PPP: something is very off about their posting, they seem desperate to get somnus voted off, I wonder if it is a bus.

Why do you jump to him being desperate to bus his partner vs desperate to save his partner (Marci) vs wanting to look like he was trying to stop a town miselimin (Marci) depending on how she flips?

[Lukewarm]

[quote="In post 571:

Also though, Dino's tenure in the slot was individually kinda bad

.

Could you Explain this please; Dino made 1 post about there being a lot of content to read through, how is that suspicious?

[/quote]

Scum is more likely to be scared of how to get into the game then town?

Dino signed up to play, was asked if they were willing to be a replacement, said yes, opened the thread and said hello... And then nothing.

[Lukewarm]

@Goldie, what changed in the like 20 mins between these posts?

I'm not sure we should Eliminate Marcistar yet UNVOTE: Marcistar
--snip--
Marcistar: reasons I already described, also at the beginning they kept asking for reads but weren't contributing anything, I think that asking questions isn't scummy however it really looked like Marci was trying to look like she was pushing the game forward but not having to contribute or just looking for someone else's reads to latch onto.

However I'm not certain She's scum anymore.

And

But my current stance is we should eliminate Marci and go from there, whichever way she flips it will give us a lot of information about the game (but I do think she is scum)

Lots of questions.

Why were you certain to begin with?
What changed your mind to being uncertain?
What prodded you towards putting it back?

[Lukewarm]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

God this looks informed.

Furtive why do you have to do this to my nice town read on you

[Lukewarm]

@marci - you should probably just claim

[Lukewarm]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

God this looks informed.

Furtive why do you have to do this to my nice town read on you

Informed that it's me and one of marcistar/Gold, me and TTTT, or me and someone else?

Seen and not responded too.

Feels like a "if you think that was scummy, then who is my partner then" which is not a line of questioning that is particularly helpful in almost any situation imo

[Lukewarm]

BigTerps shade on TTTT for unvoting feels like a "I am suspicious of TTTT for doing the townie thing to do in this scenario."

I think TTTT is town atm, but even if I am wrong on my TTTT read, it was have likely been something done to look townie by doing a townie thing. - Not whatever scum ploy BigTerp is implying

[Lukewarm]

this makes me doubt it's as simple as marci-goldie
seems very unlikely Goldie posts this if they are the team

Fake musing. You were never really considering marcistar/Gold. If you were I'm disappointed.

God this looks informed.

Furtive why do you have to do this to my nice town read on you

Informed that it's me and one of marcistar/Gold, me and TTTT, or me and someone else?

Seen and not responded too.

Feels like a "if you think that was scummy, then who is my partner then" which is not a line of questioning that is particularly helpful in almost any situation imo

Meh, maybe I was unclear to begin with.

I formed that the scum team is not Marci+Gold -> Which implies you are scum.

The observation is completely independent from who your partner would be in that scenario.

[Lukewarm]

Well I'm not informed, it's just the most obvious scumteam right now, which is never usually the case.

Putting a pin in this.

Have a response, but think it bad to express right this second

[Lukewarm]

It looks like Marci is the elim today, but I would appreciate one more round of Goldfish posts before the day ends. I have a couple hanging questions for them that I would like answered

[Lukewarm]

@Goldie, what changed in the like 20 mins between these posts?

TTTT accused me of possibly being scum with Marcistar and I freaked out.

This is an unexpectedly candid answer. Thank you.

Well I'm not informed, it's just the most obvious scumteam right now, which is never usually the case.

Putting a pin in this.

Have a response, but think it bad to express right this second

To pull the pin back out of this - Furtive, this is basically why.

Reading through Goldfish's trajectory at the time, my read of the situation was that she got spooked at the suggestion that she was scum with Marci and that was the reason for my questions. (and why I did not want to express that that was my read until after she responded, hence the pin in our conversation).

Getting spooked at the suggestion that they were a team obviously makes more sense if they are the team (I think that TTTT and I were picking up the same thing here) - So, to see you shoot it down that no one would seriously consider that team definitely raised my eyebrows.

[Lukewarm]

@Goldie, what changed in the like 20 mins between these posts?

TTTT accused me of possibly being scum with Marcistar and I freaked out.

This is an unexpectedly candid answer. Thank you.

Not sure I know how to feel about it with her being this open with it though. Definitely something to think about over the night phase.

It seems that Marci has chosen not to claim

VOTE: Marci

Spoiler: @furtive

no hammer for you

[Lukewarm]

Gg all

@mafia - that was an EXCELLENT Mafia chat, especially for a two newbie Mafia team. I think that either one of you would be amazing Mafia partners to have in a future game. I think that too many Mafia players don't take advantage of their chat, so seeing the amount of coordination and discussion you guys had was heartening.

@somnus, only critique I have for you, is that I think that you should not have a mind set of being so certain you are going down, especially so early in the game. You look like an excellent player and should plan to end game basically every game. Obviously it won't always work, but you should probably aim for it.

[Lukewarm]

BigTerp tysm for saving me 2 nights in a row. I was trying to pretend I had a guilty on Somnus a bit

I actually scum read you from the ghost chat for this lmao.

It felt like you were trying to look you had a guilty, but I didn't think you really had one lol

[Lukewarm]

Oh, and @Somnus it was not the cop emoji that was supposed to be my pr hint. It was this:

Not sure I know how to feel about it with her being this open with it though. Definitely something to think about over the night phase

"Definitely something to think about over the night phase" was me faking that I was going to be targeting her with something over the night.

It was not supposed to look like an "I am a pr" comment, more of leaving myself something to point at to say "see guys, I said who I was gonna check"