Mini 2266: GnG's Upick Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Dunnstral]

Since 12 players have confirmed quicker than I thought, I'll start the game in (expired on 2022-03-19 21:00:00) unless the 13th has confirme before then.

/confirm

[Dunnstral]

I will participate

1

[Dunnstral]

Warrior Tree	Sneak Tree	Mage Tree
1-shot Bullet Proof	1-shot Ninja	1-shot Miller
1-shot Body Guard	1-shot rolestop	1-shot doctor
1-shot Engineer	1-shot Engineer	1-shot Engineer

Cost:

1 XP

-You may buy from any tree at any time.
-Purchase order goes from the top row first to the bottom row last.
-After the 3 rows are filled you can spend

1 XP

to gain a 4th hidden ability.

From what we can see of the Warrior and Mage trees, the Mage tree seems to be strictly inferior to Warrior for the town. Not taking into account their hidden abilities, or any roles which may incline people towards picking made for other reasons.

Anyone want to claim to be going for Mage tree and becoming a miller?

2

[Dunnstral]

What if everybody dipped into the warrior tree and became 1-shot bulletproof?

Going to be hard for mafia to kill anybody. Any strongman type abilities would likely be limited.

3

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

Warrior Tree	Sneak Tree	Mage Tree
1-shot Bullet Proof	1-shot Ninja	1-shot Miller
1-shot Body Guard	1-shot rolestop	1-shot doctor
1-shot Engineer	1-shot Engineer	1-shot Engineer

Cost:

1 XP

-You may buy from any tree at any time.
-Purchase order goes from the top row first to the bottom row last.
-After the 3 rows are filled you can spend

1 XP

to gain a 4th hidden ability.

From what we can see of the Warrior and Mage trees, the Mage tree seems to be strictly inferior to Warrior for the town. Not taking into account their hidden abilities, or any roles which may incline people towards picking made for other reasons.

Anyone want to claim to be going for Mage tree and becoming a miller?

2

What if everybody dipped into the warrior tree and became 1-shot bulletproof?

Going to be hard for mafia to kill anybody. Any strongman type abilities would likely be limited.

3

Here is what I think optimal play is for the town:

The majority of town should dip into the warrior tree for the 1-shot bulletproof. This should cause at least a few kills to fail, maybe not immediately if mafia has strongman abilities (very likely considering everyone can be a 1-shot doctor/bodyguard/bulletproof), but eventually once those abilities run out, every once in a while a kill will fail.

There will likely be members of the town who have an incentive to go into either the sneak or mage trees instead. These players should carefully consider whether they want to dip into warrior first or rush for their abilities.

I have extra knowledge to share that is not covered in the set-up that can be disadvantageous to us if not properly navigated:

I believe that each tree also has a neighborhood associated with it

, and that putting a point in a tree gets you access to that neighborhood. I believe that these neighborhoods do not reveal who is a part of them, so other players will not know unless you actually talk in the neighborhood. For this reason, I think that

players who join the Warrior tree should not post in the neighborhood

in order to make it less clear on who decided to take the tree and who is rushing something else.

-4

[Dunnstral]

WhY dO yOu DiSaGrEe WiTh ThAt?

[Dunnstral]

It won't be hard to figure out whether or not investing in a skill gets you access to a hood. . .

but I don't think there's any indication that it does right now.

4

I don't consider that to be a valid criticism of my proposal. If it does give you access to the warrior hood, you should not talk in it. If it does not, it does not matter.

[Dunnstral]

Do you disagree with post 73?

2

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, I don't want to talk mechanics. Talk people. Who do you want to work with this game. Same to you jjh.

Who do you think would help me improve as a player? Who do you think I struggle to read?

3

If you didn't want to talk mechanics, you would simply talk about something else. Instead it feels like you are trying to intervene and distract and deflect away as hard as possible from the mechanical suggestions with little reasoning.

Interesting that we're going different ways on this, but I don't think Dunnstral would have got something wrong around the way the hoods work if he had access to a scum PT. For that misconception, it's most likely he is town and the PT for whatever skillset he's got has been much more silent than mine

4

I am not aware of anything that I have gotten wrong.

Assuming the player list was split evenly between the hoods,

No reason to think this, it went off of u-pick flavors

3

[Dunnstral]

Titus I am not going out of my way to work with specific people in this game. I don't have an opinion on the second part.

VOTE: Gypyx

4

[Dunnstral]

Is It An ErRoR tHaT iT sAyS rOdEn WiLl Be ElImInAtEd?

[Dunnstral]

This game seems a little stagnant, and while I'm not in a state to focus on things here currently, I would at least like to move things along so when I am in the mood things will be more active.
VOTE: Dunnstral
Out of the existing votes, this is the one I like the most. I don't really get the issue about scum knowing or not knowing certain things but the other votes either feel barely substantiated or are not ones I agree with.

4

This doesn't make sense

1

[Dunnstral]

This game seems a little stagnant, and while I'm not in a state to focus on things here currently, I would at least like to move things along so when I am in the mood things will be more active.
VOTE: Dunnstral
Out of the existing votes, this is the one I like the most. I don't really get the issue about scum knowing or not knowing certain things but the other votes either feel barely substantiated or are not ones I agree with.

4

This doesn't make sense

1

How so?

1

As Enchant said their vote wasn't based on anything, and there's no particular reason for your vote either.

2

[Dunnstral]

Shiro votes are bad, they're just not here. There are better votes on players who are here. Gypyx, Yume, Reinhardt.

3

[Dunnstral]

Reinhardt vote on dunnstral looks bad, not cause it looks random, but cause they don't seem to have any minset to solve with it (the game is still so let's do more in RVS?) doesn't seem like they want to start a conversation just to be voting somewhere.

I agree with this for Reinhardt

If I'm HoNeSt I wAsN'T eXpEcTiNg OnE iMmEdIaTeLy. ThIs Is HoW tHaT kInD oF sCuM pLaYeR rEsPoNdS tO a BiT oF pReSsUrE; tHe PrOtEsTiNg CoMeS wHeN iT cAn No LoNgEr Be ReAsOnAbLy PuT oFf As It Is ThE kInD oF bOtHeR tHaT pEoPlE tEnD tO pRoCrAsTiNaTe DeAlInG wItH.

5

And this for Gypyx

And for Yume, they're also not trying to solve or do anything, and they are trying to counter the Gypyx wagon without explaining why or why they are voting me.

All of that is better than voting Shiro for flaking

4

[Dunnstral]

HoW iS iT a BaD rEaSoN?

[Dunnstral]

Now is a good time to explain:

1) Why it was between Yume and myself
2) What stuff you felt was reasonably good regarding me

[Dunnstral]

To point 1, I think I already established what my logic was, but to make it completely clear, I was picking between people with votes on them already.
As for what seemed reasonably good, there was talk of your idea of the skillset hoods being linked to skill trees being misinformed and you being scum for it. While I cannot say I processed the entire logic chain at the moment I voted, and I actually still wonder what Titus is talking about when saying scum would know why you are wrong, the thing that resonates with me was something about the way you presented your argument felt off: why are you claiming that you know these inner workings of the skillset hoods? I feel like further discussion demonstrates that it was just a hunch?

4

It doesn't matter if I am wrong about the hoods. If I am right and you dip into the strength tree, it's better play not to post in there. If I'm wrong, there isn't a single downside to keeping that in mind.

2

[Dunnstral]

My vote remains.

This should be our next elimination

3

[Dunnstral]

Shiro's posting is really lame.

Yume posting AtE is really lame.

Enchant feels like town this game.

I assume we have a reason to keep Gypyx alive.

Would maybe vote for Pooky. I don't like that 401 only makes sense if Gypyx is scum, could be focusing on the wrong thing as scum.

VOTE: Shiro

4

[Dunnstral]

hey so, just popping in, but this time it actually ain't lazyness, i'm moving houses and kinda not having much time for mafia left in between, sorry to leave y'all hanging

RETRY CHALLENGE.

4

ThEy MiSsEd ThEiR cHaNcE aLrEaDy

[Dunnstral]

If she perform same stupidity, i give it to Mastina for my amusement.

I thought energy was only passable within hoods. Otherwise, we just pour it into LLD.

What if somebody has an ability to steal someones energy?

This is a bad idea anyway. It wastes a lot of exp for people who are not in LLD's hood. Also LLD doesn't inherently use the exp better than other people. 2/3 of the visible abilities is something that affects somebody else rather than the person who has the exp. So what ends up happening is that LLD becomes a 1-shot bodyguard/rolestopper/doctor/engineer and then gets roleblocked or strongman killed.

[Dunnstral]

If my neighborhood will agree to give me 1 XP, I can be the one to upgrade Gypyx role tonight. As long as I'm on the elimination and pass the challenge, which would give me 2 xp to start with. I think that we are going the wrong way with pushing Enchant today.

2

[Dunnstral]

--Must retry before what would have been their next challenge post

3

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Yume

Decided I'd rather push this than Shiro today

4

[Dunnstral]

I aM pReTtY sUrE tHaT tHe NiNjA wOuLd Be An AcTiVaTeD aBiLiTy ThOuGh

OtHeRwIsE hOw WoUlD iT wOrK?

[Dunnstral]

How would a ninja active work here?

There is literally no way.

Same with miller

so I'm almost sure bulletproof is passive too.

it just suggests town has Vig, mafia has strong man and all first three utility in these trees are anti town utilities. in some sense.

4

Active use Ninja is a real thing, like active use strongman or janitor. Active use miller is not a real thing. Bulletproof is usually passive, but upon consideration I could see that being an active ability as well.

[Dunnstral]

I personally believe, we need to all claim on which tree we're gonna work on and we need to spread out - with the majority going for warrior tree to reduce possible anti-town ness mechanical wise unless if there is a fear about it having a negative impact (claiming the tree you wanna pursue) but I cant think of any right now

I don't think that this is a good idea

2

[Dunnstral]

Shiro's posting is really lame.

Yume posting AtE is really lame.

Enchant feels like town this game.

I assume we have a reason to keep Gypyx alive.

Would maybe vote for Pooky. I don't like that 401 only makes sense if Gypyx is scum, could be focusing on the wrong thing as scum.

VOTE: Shiro

4

InTeReStInG yOu VoTe ShIrO oUt Of AlL tHrEe SuSpEcTs YoU lIsTeD, gIvEn My VoTe WaS tHeRe AnD yOu ThOuGhT i WaS sUsPiCiOuS?

5

Are you asking me a question?

3

[Dunnstral]

Shiro votes are bad, they're just not here. There are better votes on players who are here. Gypyx, Yume, Reinhardt.

3

Shiro's posting is really lame.

Yume posting AtE is really lame.

Enchant feels like town this game.

I assume we have a reason to keep Gypyx alive.

Would maybe vote for Pooky. I don't like that 401 only makes sense if Gypyx is scum, could be focusing on the wrong thing as scum.

VOTE: Shiro

4

VOTE: Yume

Decided I'd rather push this than Shiro today

4

Honestly Dun is the one I am more eeeeeeeehhhh on because of this thought process. And the fact that he never actually went ahead to push Yume

1/5

You had 1 post when I said not to vote you.

6 days later, you had 6 posts and 0 content.

So no, don't try to twist this as if isn't solely based off of your poor play here.

4

[Dunnstral]

YuMe Is At TwO oF fOuR pRoDs

PrEtTy SoOn ThEy WiLl HaVe No ChOiCe BuT tO pArTiCiPaTe OnCe EvErY fOuRtY eIgHt HoUrS

aNd ThEn MaYbE wE wIlL bE mOrE iNcLiNeD tO vOtE fOr ThEm

[Dunnstral]

At this point I feel continuing to try to figure out Gypyx' role today is unhelpful.

I'm willing to give them a day based on the reaction from hood mates to their claim. I'm not too concerned about them trying to upgrade their power as scum here.

I volunteered to be the person who will upgrade Gypyx' role. This should happen in the first ~24 hours of the night phase; and if it doesn't happen, then somebody in the neighborhood that Gypyx is in should do that instead.

1

[Dunnstral]

I'm willing to vote out everyone asking to be voted out.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

2

[Dunnstral]

For the record Roden, I'm pretty sure the 3-5 clears angle is nonsense, and it kind of looks like Titus announced a plan by herself and then acted like it was consensus within the hood based on the hoods reactions in thread (Enchant doesn't fully agree, Gypyx doesn't know what is going on, don't remember the last but they aren't exactly backing Titus up here). Regardless, I can see merit to allowing Gypyx to upgrade tonight if they are claiming something self clearing.

3

[Dunnstral]

I volunteered to be the person who will upgrade Gypyx' role. This should happen in the first ~24 hours of the night phase; and if it doesn't happen, then somebody in the neighborhood that Gypyx is in should do that instead.

Emphasizing this:

Expect me to upgrade Gypyx' role within the first 24 hours of the night. And If that doesn't happen, Gypyx can say so in the neighborhood. I will campaign in my neighborhood for somebody to give me 1 xp to make this happen.

4

[Dunnstral]

I aLsO dId NoT rEaLiZe PoOkY wAs ClOsE tO eLiMiNaTiOn

[Dunnstral]

Gypyx voted too

1

[Dunnstral]

Oooh it was gypyx not reinhardt then

3

It was both

2

[Dunnstral]

I will participate

1

[Dunnstral]

Titus, Gypyx, Enchant, and... Shiro? Explain what the plan was now, and anything that may have disrupted it. Is Gypyx clear?

2

[Dunnstral]

I would like to state my role as it is is not great but I expect it to be by design, where getting hit with an engineer would assist me rather substantially. As such, I would like to have one used on me earlier rather than later.

In addition, I feel like my skillset makes sense to my flavor, if not to my role.

2

How was Reinhardt speaking with authority here as to how the engineer would help their role?

3

[Dunnstral]

Now we stuff four of this word "four" into both posts. "Four" is easily done four times, and we can't cut each other off from doing it because the fourth word remains the same.

[Dunnstral]

I used my engineer on Gypyx like I said I would, by the way. Should have confirmed that here earlier. Can the mage hood confirm that too?

1

[Dunnstral]

I will not be participating. I don't understand the rules and it would screw with my posting.

I can confirm that someone other than Shiro upgraded Dunn which threw me for a loop but what else is new. Gypyx now has LLD's role and vice versa. That was my failsafe in case Gypyx was lying. LLD wanted a new role and getting three town in a link was too much to pass up.

First of all, I wasn't upgraded. I'm assuming this is a typo.

Second, explain to me what Gypyx and LLD did. LLD claimed the role she flipped as.

Can you explain how Gypyx is clear?

2

[Dunnstral]

I used my engineer on Gypyx like I said I would, by the way. Should have confirmed that here earlier. Can the mage hood confirm that too?

1

Yes, that totally confused the living daylights out of us. It was the plan for Shiro to upgrade Gypyx, not Dunn.

This just creates a fair amount of confusion.

525, 647, 663

All four members of your hood missed these three posts?

3

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

[Dunnstral]

Your Ability is to: As the reigning champion of last years league, you get first round picks and have the ability to create your own neighborhood and recruit one player per Night phase to join your roster.

Along with being equipped with a primary ability, you also start off with a passive.

As a Changling, your posts will be deformed in the sense that you must reverse the use of uppercase and lowercase letters. (hERE IS HOW i WOULD GIVE AN EXAMPLE).

You're lying Titus

LLD was the one following this post restriction yesterday, not Gypyx. This was LLD's role.

1

[Dunnstral]

Am I misunderstanding the above somehow?

Start from the beginning. If gypyx is a neighborizer, who is in the neighborhood? And how is it confirmed?

However, you can't send 0.25 exp to someone you do share a hood with- so, if they're both in the scum PT it wouldn't be possible to send and Yume would need some kind of cover.

I doubt it works like that

Or rather, they could send 1 xp for 1 xp then?

So I'm not sure what the deal is

2

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I will participate in challenge.

...
Uh.
Can someone clarify to me how this challenge works? I don't understand due language issues.
I need replace every four word with "Four" in every four post?

1

No, the fourth

word

at the start of the post above you

So you would

word

post like this

word

if you wanted

word

to complete the

word

challenge. 4 times

3

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

So who are you saying is clear, Titus?

Why does Gypyx being a neighborizor clear him?

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Last night I was your lovely host for the scummies. Now every year may be a bit boring as we all know the scummies are for show. I was on stage doing my routine, and made a joke about LLD's pet lion who was losing their mane. In the lions defense, LLD rushed the stage and thwapped me across the face. Needless to say, with the scummy academy on my side, LLD has been ejected from the event.

Lady Lambdadelta was:

Spoiler: Lady Lambdadelta

Phoenix with a Changling Rider

Your Ability is to: As the reigning champion of last years league, you get first round picks and have the ability to create your own neighborhood and recruit one player per Night phase to join your roster.

Along with being equipped with a primary ability, you also start off with a passive. As a Changling, your posts will be deformed in the sense that you must reverse the use of uppercase and lowercase letters. (hERE IS HOW i WOULD GIVE AN EXAMPLE).

Win Conditions
-You are aligned with the Town. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated plus one town alive.
-Your skillset is Warrior, here you can talk with others who share your skillset.
Warrior Neighborhood

Day 2 will last 14 days and deadline will be Tuesday, March 29th @ 10 PM EST: (expired on 2022-04-12 21:00:00)

Who is "Phoenix" here?

Does this flavor 'reigning champion of last years league' fit the character? If it does I'm taking that as confirmation that this was LLD's original role, because the flavor is a part of the role.

Open question

And yes Enchant

1

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too


I'm willing to play today slow and not jump to conclusions. With that said, the mage neighborhood isn't making a lot of sense to me right now. I need to hear more about what the original plan was and how it was meant to clear anybody. I need to know who gypyx neighborized. Who are the alleged clears right now, and why?

2

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

We believed Gypix could turn in Masoniser.............................................................

Naive is it?

2

Yes.

Me plus LLD plus Gypyx plus whomever he picked would basically seal the game. Sure, we didn't know what would happen but no scum in their right mind would chance mang conftown.

Did you folks think to use the rolestopper on Gypyx as well so they couldn't simply be roleblocked after all that in thread planning?

3

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Why?

For the challenge

Nope, but Gypyx wasn't supposed to use the role at all. That was to alleviate concerns that he had some sort of super secret role he had to use that night, which was speculated.

Which role? The neighborizor, or the new toy he got? How would you know whether he used the role or not if you don't know what it is except from him possibly telling you (and he can lie if scum)?

Did he claim in the hood?

1

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Yume and Shiro are actually two of the worst possible options from my point of view

My information level at this point in time is unfathomable

So who should we eliminate then?

2

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

----

Titus, you were originally against the Gypyx elimination due to purely mechanical reasons, correct? Once it became clear that gypyx wasn't a masonizer, why did you still switch lld and gypyx' roles? You made Gypyx loved when they could not confirm themselves.

3

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

What are your reads?

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

VOTE: Gypyx

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Ohhh. Ok, so did Gypy's upgrade go to LLD then? From what I know, Dunn used the Engineer as soon as he got it.

LLD didn't flip with an upgraded ability

2

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too



3

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

[Dunnstral]

Other Restrictions?:

Can't be from newbie queue, game will require a lot of knowledge mechanically just due to all the elements involved. Every ability however will be able to be found on the wiki for explanations as well as provided as requested.

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

Anyways, Gypyx posted 1 time in ~5 times and they aren't claiming anything. What's the argument for keeping them alive and voting for somebody else? If there is no argument, vote for Gypyx and end the day.

2

[Dunnstral]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

But I did not submit anything to do with 'lies' and yet that's what my role PM is.

3

[Dunnstral]

I will participate

I have what is essentially a guilty result on Shiro.

[Dunnstral]

I have what is essentially a guilty result on Shiro.

And Dwlee

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

the secret ability of the sneak tree is a 1 shot role steal, It steals another players primary role. I used this ability on Shiro and was informed that their starting primary ability was that they started the game with an engineer shot. This means they could have upgraded gypyx on

day 1

but instead acted like they were going to be receiving exp during the night to buy the engineer shot instead.

I used the role stop on dwlee last night. Roleblocker that also blocks strongman; no deaths. That plus them moving into the same neighborhood as Gypyx and Shiro is super sketch considering the rules for transferring exp. Lots of circumstantial evidence pointing here.

VOTE: Shiro

1

[Dunnstral]

Hi lLD

-The Rolestop is actually a Roleblocker that also prevents Strongman abilities. Kinda weird, but at least we have counterplay.

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realizing it might help other people too

I'm sorry 917 is my fault. That's the first mechanical mistake I have made I feel. I thought I was grabbing a universal protective, instead it's an aggessive action which I'm not prepared to take and I took another garbage to get it. :(

2

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

If you had 2 experience last night phase why didn't you mention that? I sent you 0.25 exp to make you have a whole number and you didn't cooperate with your hood at all to try and get the third point for reasons?

That's nonsensical and not true. We did discuss trying to get enough exp to upgrade Shiro but it didn't come together.

I did get your gift, but why were you giving experience to someone you felt was inept?

I used my engineer on Gypyx like I said I would, by the way. Should have confirmed that here earlier. Can the mage hood confirm that too?

1

Yes, that totally confused the living daylights out of us. It was the plan for Shiro to upgrade Gypyx, not Dunn.

This just creates a fair amount of confusion.

I will not be participating. I don't understand the rules and it would screw with my posting.

I can confirm that someone other than Shiro upgraded Dunn which threw me for a loop but what else is new. Gypyx now has LLD's role and vice versa. That was my failsafe in case Gypyx was lying. LLD wanted a new role and getting three town in a link was too much to pass up.

Reinhardt, it's not that gypyx is locktown. Keeping him alive may get 4 conftown or confirm him as scum. We just ensure Shiro engineers Gypyx or we put experience on someone trusted as a backup. That's why Enchant's blackmail is so bad. Since we had a plan, why would Enchant blackmail Gypyx to take his xp? The only reason to do that is if you didn't want to go along with the gameplan. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter who had the xp at the time. That's why Enchant cannot be trusted. I don't know what he intends to do, but he has tipped his hand that he would not upgrade Gypyx.

This does not require any novel understanding of mechanics at all. It's common sense.

We don't know 100% that Gypyx will upgrade into a second mason shot, but why not try?

The role can then be used night 2 to announce the conftown and dictate scum's moves for the rest of the game.

Enchant won't agree to this so he's scum. It's simple.

I don't have to prove how he will mess up the plan, only that he will.

i mean you're pushing pooky!town and helping gypyx!scum get xp to do some bad shit to the town so you pretty much are not just useless but actively working against town wincon so w/e i dont really give a fuck

2

Wrong. I don't want Enchant visiting Shiro because I don't want Shiro blocked. Enchant refuses to give it to me. Gypyx is the only one left.

Gypyx will be outed tomorrow if scum, so I'm fine with treating them as town.

So who is lying? Shiro or Titus? One of them dies from this.

[Dunnstral]

Well yours of .25 and Reinhardt gave me one. That got me to 2.25. So no Yume didn't.

Names aren't on the gifts.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dwlee99

Nobody should be posting in mage hood anymore. Everyone in mage hood should be giving a transcript of what has conspired in there so far. There have almost certainly been 2 mafia in that thread at some point, anything being posted in there is just hiding info from the town.

[Dunnstral]

Gypyx would have had 2.75 exp at the end of the night, and then 3.25 exp going into the day phase

So where did that 3 exp go?

They were a neighborizor, but he was tracked going nowhere. So if he wanted to use his exp to maximum efficiency, he gave it to a scum partner who was already in his hood.

Dwlee's slot moved from the warrior hood to the mage hood. Shiro, Titus, and Enchant are also in the mage hood. It's unlikely that he purchased the ninja just to use their neighborizor... right?

The most likely scenario is that there is another mafia player in the mage hood, otherwise he would have targeted a partner with the neighborizor. Titus role wouldn't stop the neighborizor to go off, confirmed by the way the role steal works.

Between Dwlee99, Titus, Shiro, and Enchant there is a mafia player.

Dwlee99 was role stopped and there was no kill. The way they used their role is also suspicious.
Shiro and Titus are claiming contradictory things.
Titus has been banking on Hanlon's razor all game.
Enchant isn't calling out contradictory things between the hood and the thread, along with the rest of the hood not doing that

[Dunnstral]

Everybody in mage hood should claim how much exp they currently have and what they did with it at each point in the game

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

iF tITUS AND sHIRO CLAIM THINGS THAT CANNOT MATCH, sHIRO IS LYING.

OK, I'm going to go over this for everybodies benefit and so there is no confusion about what I am talking about here.

In post 256 Titus claims that the general consensus in the mage hood is to upgrade Gypyx.
In post 445 Titus is saying that Enchant is trying to avoid Gypyx being upgraded
In post 461 and 469 Titus brings up roleblocks in relation to upgrading. However, Engineer is an instant action and can be used during the day, there is no potential for it being roleblocked.
In post 575 Titus again brings up that there is a plan that everyone agreed to in the mage hood.
In post 629 and 630 Titus talks about experience exchanging hands when referring to upgrades, which doesn't match up with Shiro having the engineer to start with.
In post 711 Titus says that someone other than Shiro upgrading Gypyx confused her.
In post 726 Titus says that it was the plan for Shiro to upgrade Gypyx, and that by upgrading Gypyx I caused a fair amount of confusion

However, the whole time, Shiro had the engineer role from the start, and could have used it on day 1. They could have used it on the first page if they wanted.

What's even more incriminating is that I just double checked with the wording that Shiro received with their role,

it is abundantly clear that the engineer unlocks a new ability instead of upgrading an existing one

. That part is actually explained in their role pm in a way that cannot be misinterpreted.

Now remember, the whole plan day 1 was that Gypyx' neighborizor would upgrade to a masonizer, however,

Shiro had knowledge that it didn't work like that

and didn't say anything.


So I ask again, and emphasize: Somebody who is not Titus/Shiro should give a transcript of what happened in the mage hood from start to finish.

VOTE: Shiro

[Dunnstral]

3 different people with potential guilties on Dwlee

We're all from the same hood, but none of us coordinated this by the way

[Dunnstral]

I will Participate

Shiro claimed she had Engineer, and was planned to use it on Gypix, but you was faster.

Instead she upgraded Titus.

It's not guilty.

1

No, you're wrong. The engineer can be used at any time.

It can be used during the day

. I only had enough exp to purchase the engineer after the day phase ended and it became night 1. Shiro could have used the engineer during day 1. I wasn't faster, Shiro chose not to use it on Gypyx.

Don't forget that I had the engineer ability, so I know how it works. Shiro also had it, and knew how it worked.

If anybody else purchased the engineer, they can confirm that it can be used during the day.

[Dunnstral]

OK so

With that context, can you explain what is going on in 1001 to me?

[Dunnstral]

or LLD is town after being revived.

Alright, we can tone back the paranoia a little bit here. LLD is clearly town here

[Dunnstral]

Town with extra win condition.

I have no idea what happened with the engineers; note that Shiro should have had 2 over the course of the game and hasn't given any direct confirmation over how they have been used

1

I wasn't told whether what I swiped had a charge left or not. I can try to use it on FA.

[Dunnstral]

I did literally nothing last night

Interesting

1

I mean, it's true

[Dunnstral]

I did literally nothing last night

Interesting

1

I mean, it's true

Doing nothing is guilty?

1

no, but it's true they did nothing because I used the role stop there

[Dunnstral]

hold on, don't rush to spend exp this day phase please

[Dunnstral]

How does Titus have two active abilities?

[Dunnstral]

Is there a downside to buying a bunch of those revive abilities and just bringing a bunch of people back?

[Dunnstral]

Your Ability is to: You are the guardian/servant of the most powerfully evil being in the Fae Realm. You ask the tree for knowledge that drives you insane. Curse can only be lifted if another player visits you during the night and you will then gift your knowledge to them. Without the mental strength you have, any other player will die the next night phase from trying to understand The Cthaeh's visions. (1x reflexive poisoner. Any players that visit you during the night become poisoned. May only be triggered once during the game)

Does this ability activate from the reviver?

[Dunnstral]

They can, but we can hold them accountable if they do because
A. You can only buy each ability once
B. The 4th tier warrior ability is a vig, which I would like to suggest we collectively reserve for dogpiling on revived scum if they dare to do it

1

BP + Rolestop

[Dunnstral]

I think the vig is a bad idea for town to go for in general. Everybody should be buying a bp vest, except for me, because mafia have a lot of exp that is unaccounted for right now that can be used to kill extra people

Reviving town players is actually the more powerful ability, in my opinion, which of course can also be blocked, but mafia should only be able to do that twice using exp and then limited from their own roles. And there's a lot of exp to be gained every day. What if we try to revive multiple people at once?

[Dunnstral]

I can't upgrade FA

[Dunnstral]

shoot me

Gather 6 exp, spend 4 on a vig, and 2 on a rolestop. rolestop roden and shoot me with the vig tonight.

[Dunnstral]

Roden is 3rd party

[Dunnstral]

Do wait is both dwee and Dunn vampires?

No, replace all instances of Dwlee with my name

[Dunnstral]

FA is still misunderstanding so let me clear up what happened with the swarm of bats.

I started the game with a 1-shot ninja, which also meant I had 1 point in the sneak tree - I claimed this in my neighborhood a short bit before JJH claimed similar information (day 1 twilight) and asked for 1 exp to reach the hidden role that night. Nobody wanted to give me that 1 exp so I settled on the engineer and waited for the next night.

Part of my ninja ability is that instead of showing no result, it instead shows a swarm of bats. This should only affect roles such as tracker and watcher. To be clear, I did not activate this ninja ability on either night.

FA used an investigative action on me during night 1, but all they saw was a swarm of bats. This is an error, as my role is only supposed to apply to trackers and watchers when I use my ninja ability, but because of vague wording on both the ninja ability and my own passive, it ended up applying to all investigative abilities.

So FA received "a swarm of bats" but to my knowledge, I hadn't used the ability. FA then asked me on night 1 if I had any negative effects on me. I answered no,

which wasn't a lie from my point of view

, FA then said I might be ascetic because they didn't get a result on me - I suggested that they may have been roleblocked instead.

FA didn't mention anything about a swarm of bats during day 2.

So all of the above is a separate issue that is kind of in the past. FA says they were told there was an error in their results already. OK.

Which brings us to our next point. Roden suddenly claimed that they have knowledge that vampires are a completely separate faction that are not aligned with the town and that can't be vigged at night. Now the problem here is he's lying and this feels too brazen to come from factional scum. Roden is suddenly all in on this and feels like an executioner who is about to leave the game after getting their win. I suggested that I ask to be vigged and Roden says he can bp + bodyguard me to prevent me from dying. I point out that it doesn't make sense for vampires to be an anti-town faction if their role specifically mentions anti-town factions and vampires while the town pm simply says anti-town factions.

[Dunnstral]

He had to stop here if all he wanted was to get rid of a vampire but then he outright claimed that he is town but he has an extra wincondition to get at least 1 vampire killed in addition to removing all threats to town.

Sucks for him then

[Dunnstral]

She said she was going to bed near the start of this

[Dunnstral]

I didn't misunderstand anything that was exactly what I said?! I used an investigative action on you night 1, it hit swarm of bats you claimed that you have no anti-town utility, when we discussed it again and I claimed the flavor of it you checked with mod and a mod error was confirmed. That's all I said and you said again?

This should only affect roles such as tracker and watcher

talk more about this? which roles exactly should see a swarm of bats if they target you? Cause What I used on you was not a watcher or tracker.

I'm saying that the swarm of bats should have only affected my use of the ninja. It should have been flavor text, so if I used my ninja and a tracker targeted me, instead of seeing 'no result' they're see 'a swarm of bats'. Other investigative abilities should have been able to affect me normally.

The error here is that it is instead being treated as a separate ability, instead of a modifier to ninja, so any investigative role that targets me returns the swarm of bats, and not related to the ninja activation.

And yes, the fact that you have ninja in your role is scummy. Why would a town player have such thing as role in the first place? lying or not.

It is 1 point invested into the stealth tree, which has additional abilities that can benefit the town.

Dunn is it ok If I out rest of your role claim?

1

Sure.

[Dunnstral]

Roden did not actually claim the same role

[Dunnstral]

Dunn stole your 1 shot engineer role last night

Sucks to be him. It's used up xD

I just upgraded somebody elses role. It looks like the role thief also refreshes the shot if you really did use it already. If the masonizer is Titus' primary role, you can grab another copy of that, keeping in mind that only the target of the actual masonizer, and not the stealer of the role, would be confirmed as town

[Dunnstral]

And you didn't because?

I didn't even know Titus had that role, and it's not clear that the role thief recharges the shot from what is explained.

[Dunnstral]

Trying to upgrade somebody who is already upgraded does not waste the shot.

[Dunnstral]

Why are we putting this information into the thread?

[Dunnstral]

Since we're putting the information out there anyway: I just upgraded LLD

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE:

I'm on Dwlee in spirit

[Dunnstral]

In that case, Pooky, tell us how it works.

The best bit is that if you're lying then we'll find out later

2

it just means the first investigative ability used on me will give a positive result and only the first investigative ability so i should be fine later. it is my passive.

3

[Dunnstral]

^You flubbed the challenge

[Dunnstral]

By the way, I can be turned into a mason, and Roden doesn't have to be told who is targeting me.

[Dunnstral]

Wasn't LLD turned into a mason during the day, too?

Role steal is a night action but this could happen tomorrow.

[Dunnstral]

Can someone, preferably Roden, just confirm whether Roden would leave the game in victory in the scenario that he achieved this side wincon?

1

With regard to the masoniser, I want to hear from LLD how much she knows about it, particularly around Titus' alignment, because that's pretty key information for whether or not we have to place Titus and what the play would be if people wanted to steal the role.

2

I suspect once stolen it can't be stolen again, which would limit this to a one time thing

[Dunnstral]

By the way, I'm a tracker -> watcher -> doctor -> roleblocker, which could be interesting to steal as well.

[Dunnstral]

I haven't lied about anything

[Dunnstral]

notice the absence of other vampires counter claiming my info and claiming to be town.

There's no other vampires...

[Dunnstral]

It steals your primary ability.

If you started the game with the masonizer and the passive, then the masonizer is the primary ability.

[Dunnstral]

It should work then.

I believe that this will only work once, and so that only 1 person can become a masonizer. I also believe that the person who actually steals the role will not become confirmed town, only the person who is targeted by the role. You can double check that by asking the mod what would happen if your mason ability was swapped to mafia using your hidden role.

[Dunnstral]

So Dwlee's silence here indicates guilt, right?

Dwlee, if you're town, I recommend transferring 1 xp to titus and .5 xp to LLD before you get eliminated today.

[Dunnstral]

You said that vampires were group scum or 3p

Considering we have 1 mafia flip already and they're not a vampire, yeah, that means vampire faction

[Dunnstral]

Are you serious

You realize group scum can consist of generally evil fantasy creatures and characters, right? Or are you suggesting that the entire scum team are all Changelings/affiliated with Changelings, since that was Gypy's flip?

Are you saying that Changelings is evil flavor?
Are you saying that scum will only have evil flavor?

[Dunnstral]

No I don't think flavor = alignment. What are you saying?

[Dunnstral]

and targeting roden would also give a useless result based on what he claimed in sneak chat

Dang that's unfortunate that he also claimed to be immune to investigations right after making up a bunch of other stuff

[Dunnstral]

My stance was that the cop check should have been used on someone besides Dwlee and we should just eliminate Dwlee anyway

Dwlee b eing mafia was pretty obvious. As a reminder, I role stopped Dwlee last night.

[Dunnstral]

I could not target dunnestral knowing he blocks all investigative actions now

I block reports, not actions. That's why I can be turned into a mason still.

[Dunnstral]

I want jjh927/Yume to place 2 of the next 3 votes

[Dunnstral]

On Dwlee, for exp distribution.

[Dunnstral]

Warrior hood:
JJH
Yume
LLD

JJH also has a connection to Shiro, who is in Mage hood

Mage hood:

Shiro
Titus
Enchant

This is for the big 4 exp hidden abilities. I imagine JJH is in a position to organize something so I think this is the best plan. Titus can't steal from herself if we are doing the mason thing.

For this reason, Frozen Angel should actually unvote. If you are dying at the end of the day phase then you are just wasting exp. Even if you can still use it after you die, you should still unvote anyway and let somebody in warrior hood.

Also LLD can vote too

[Dunnstral]

Who should I target with my doctor action tonight?

[Dunnstral]

and targeting roden would also give a useless result based on what he claimed in sneak chat

Dang that's unfortunate that he also claimed to be immune to investigations right after making up a bunch of other stuff

Are you really gonna make me claim this

[Dunnstral]

vig me or turn me into a mason. I recommend not doing both at the same time.

[Dunnstral]

Hold on, Roden just slipped. He claimed to have hard info that vampires could only be voted out. Tagging it in the hood.

[Dunnstral]

He said that vampires couldn't be vigged, they could only be voted out.

I'm sorry you got caught over a dumb slip but you're kind of more trouble than you're worth for my wincon at this point.

I'd rather just Vig you like you wanted and just stick to the main wincon so you stop giving scum info out of spite.

So which is it Roden?

[Dunnstral]

Okay well I'll be coordinating the actions of the warrior and mage hoods so you can see what we wind up doing next day phase.

Yes this is what I wanted.

[Dunnstral]

For what it's worth, Dunnstral, I think Roden is town but making a bunch of shit up on the side so he can attempt the vampire hunting wincon

I can also see Roden as town who is either confused about their role or is somehow being lied to. I think 3p is a possibility as well. I feel Roden is a bit too sticky with this push on me when it would make a lot of sense to back off as town once the mason thing came up as it's not very likely to be me with Dwlee.

Something to note is that I did announce that I was role stopping dwlee to sneak hood before I actually did so, and everyone had a chance to respond before the end of the night. It's not clear to me whether the kill was stopped because of my block, because of your ability, or something else, so this could mean nothing, but if I stopped the kill then it almost confirms that the last mafia is not in sneak hood, and that extends to Roden.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think there's a universe where Dwlee was the one who made the scum nightkill

Why? They are one of two remaining mafia

[Dunnstral]

He said that vampires couldn't be vigged, they could only be voted out.

I'm sorry you got caught over a dumb slip but you're kind of more trouble than you're worth for my wincon at this point.

I'd rather just Vig you like you wanted and just stick to the main wincon so you stop giving scum info out of spite.

So which is it Roden?

Take a look at the hood before you fuck up any more of tonight's plans

I really don't get how you are simultaneously calling me either mafia or hostile 3p and expecting me to be working with you in the hood, and revealing info in there like it's nothing

[Dunnstral]

We actually only had one pseudo-guilty, which is me role stopping him, despite the sentiment earlier. And FA didn't listen to me when I said not to check Dwlee because of Roden's fake information.

[Dunnstral]

Your skill is equivalent of anti town utility and you responded to me that you have no anti town utility in general Mod error or not.

How is that my fault?

[Dunnstral]

JJH, can we discuss who you think the last mafia is if it's not me/roden

Can you explain your townread on Yume?

[Dunnstral]

I guess I'll out that I sent the .75 exp to jjh earlier today, and I don't know how Enchant was made aware of that (or why they revealed only that information)

[Dunnstral]

Your skill is equivalent of anti town utility and you responded to me that you have no anti town utility in general Mod error or not.

How is that my fault?

It's not? Its just something that got revealed you have which you were hiding on purpose at first when you thought it didn't come to play. But you got forced to reveal it. It's a scum mindset to keep such thing hidden and not claim it outright?!

1

[Dunnstral]

I'm honestly 100% sure at this point that dunnestral is an evil 3p

I need to reveal this as well

We heard another claim that suggests werewolfs are also evil 3p possible in game that get even nights night kill.

Would not surprise me that vampire is (are) ones with odd nights night kills.

Just listen and list whatever dunn claimed so far. How can a town role has these many utilities. He is a joat claimed investigative heal, role block with extra skill in sneak tree, who is immune to get investigated, who roden claims he is immune to get vigged who just gifted exp to someone from another chat?!

This is just not town

2

[Dunnstral]

are you putting curses on my slot or something

3

[Dunnstral]

well this dunnestral here is cought scum today dwlee tomorrow dunnestral

1

[Dunnstral]

This is another reason I want to know EXACTLY what is up with Titus' role and the phrasing of it.

You'll get that info if you steal the role. I got flavor details about how Shirop was a fairy.

[Dunnstral]

But LLD flipped as town, even though their ability changing got updated

[Dunnstral]

Even if Titus was a cult leader, just stealing their ability shouldn't turn that player into cult anyway

[Dunnstral]

Yume is town. You've seen scum!Yume- she doesn't try very hard. Town!Yume uses PTs and tries to make herself useful. Basically, I think I can pretty clearly tell Yume's motivations from the >100 posts she has made in the hood with a lot more certainty than you might get from less than half that in the main thread.

OK, this is convincing to me

[Dunnstral]

hEY dUNN, i WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT jjh. wHAT'S YOUR READ THERE?

I think town

Keep in mind that the mason stuff is relevant towards me as well

[Dunnstral]

As for the role thief thing, we're not testing Titus

We discovered that the hidden ability of the sneak tree is a role steal, and that it also refreshes the ability being used. This means whoever takes Titus' role will be able to masonize someone, but it is not clear to us whether the person who takes the ability is also aligned with the town if it succeeds or if they can be any alignment.

And then there's my role. Investigative reports return a swarm of bats when used on me, but a mason should be fine because it doesn't return a report (as should any loyal type role) and my ability does not roleblock actions

[Dunnstral]

-A player may gift 1 XP to another player sharing the same neighborhood.
-A player may spend 0.5 XP to gift 0.25 XP to any player outside of their neighborhood.

Reading the setup helps

[Dunnstral]

I don't think the mafia pt is a 'neighborhood'
Look at what roles they started with. Gypyx was a neighborizor and Dwlee can move between neighborhoods.

[Dunnstral]

I'd like to end the day as I think JJH has gotten any info possible from Titus about the mason shot

JJH + 1 more should vote. Maybe it should be jjh and yume voting at the same time, and somebody else should vote first

[Dunnstral]

I don't think mass claiming helps us right now. I am open to it on day 4.

[Dunnstral]

Anyway, we now need to wait 48 hours before ending day since Yume has retried challenge.

You, Yume, and the mod are all wrong: By the rules Yume was not able to retry the challenge:

--Must retry before what would have been their next challenge post

[Dunnstral]

Also who want 0.5XP?

2

jjh/shiro/yume

[Dunnstral]

Also who want 0.5XP?

2

Let us know if you've used this (and if you haven't, then do so)

[Dunnstral]

This doesn't confirm anything

[Dunnstral]

[Dunnstral]

Epic play Roden

[Dunnstral]

Epic play Roden

Told you the 1v1 was a bad idea.

I never tried to eliminate you man

[Dunnstral]

Ngl, the amount of vitriol sent my way for trying to play to my wincon was really uncalled for.

You should have claimed your real role after I had died because you were town and could win normally

But instead you continued to lie and act dodgy and avoid explaining what happened with your role

You wouldn't have died if you claimed your real role and said you lied

[Dunnstral]

Epic play Roden

Told you the 1v1 was a bad idea.

I never tried to eliminate you man

You literally told everyone to vote me out lmao

No, no I didn't.

[Dunnstral]

I was the doctor on Yume on night 3

[Dunnstral]

I don't like that every single challenge was a post restriction

[Dunnstral]

Roden is 3rd party

Epic play Roden

Told you the 1v1 was a bad idea.

I never tried to eliminate you man

You literally told everyone to vote me out lmao

No, no I didn't.

Not sure why you're arguing this, the game's over. You pushed me in the main thread and made your intentions clear in the hood that you wanted me gone and that you were going to 1v1 me.

I mean

That isn't me saying to eliminate you

I have to defend myself somehow, I can't argue that you're town who isn't playing to their main win condition

[Dunnstral]

Ngl, the amount of vitriol sent my way for trying to play to my wincon was really uncalled for.

You should have claimed your real role after I had died because you were town and could win normally

But instead you continued to lie and act dodgy and avoid explaining what happened with your role

You wouldn't have died if you claimed your real role and said you lied

I was already getting voted out for lying, admitting that I lied doesn't change that outcome.

I really think it would have and that you wouldn't have been eliminated if you claimed your real role

[Dunnstral]

I was a vampire

[Dunnstral]

What the fuck was dunnstral's blood pact

The mod thought it was funny that I bolded a message saying 'Perform Blood Pact' and put the mtg cards for no reason, so they asked me if the ability should do anything. I said it should inform FA that the blood pact has been performed and do nothing else

[Dunnstral]

I was also doctor on yume on night 3 as I mentioned, thouh it's not listed there

[Dunnstral]

It costs 4 XP to revive a player.
It costs only 2 XP to get a rolestop to block the revive.

Town has significantly more xp due to having more members

[Dunnstral]

Scum snowballing relies on town playing poorly, not on scum playing well. The town has to misplay to allow that to happen

They also don't know that there is a vig at the start of the game

[Dunnstral]

I was told

You've died this game but there is a chance for you to come back! I can't give you access to deadthreads yet but I will contact you in case the event happens