Mini 2266: GnG's Upick Mafia [GAME OVER]

[mastina]

Participate in challenge

Hi, I am a mason.

(Which is to say, I am town.)

[mastina]

(For the record, I am town. Just thought I'd let you know.)

/confirm

Conftown.

I will participate

Town.

I will participate

This sort of role is normally not town in Ginngie setups but play-wise I'll risk calling it town.

Shitpost is means we can't talk about game or what

eggpost

Scum?

Hello to you all, is all.

Scum.
(2 / 5)

VOTE: Yume
UNVOTE: Yume

[mastina]

I want it on record that I have never before received a role that is more in line with my skillset
3

Eh, my role's deserved--it's a tradition for me to submit trollish picks in Ginngie games and for Ginngie to then punish me for having done so. I do need to constantly say I am town (because I am in fact town), but the role itself is quite good imo.

I don't believe you.

You better tho since I am in fact town.

I would like to participate in the challenge.

Town?

I will participate

Scum. </3

3/5

[mastina]

Not yet but maybe...

But I am a mason tho.

Lal

Fun fact, that's basically what the mod named my role.

I'm still town, tho, in spite of my role PM saying I am a liar.

4/5

[mastina]

GeTtInG rId Of ThE rEsTrIcTiOn

[mastina]

GeTtInG rId Of ThE rEsTrIcTiOn

Also, I am town. (Thankfully, I am allowed to not have it be literally every post, but saying it every post makes it better.)

1/5

(note to self that I need to make my 5/5 be "I aM tOwN" tho)

[mastina]

Okay that's a funny PR and it's funnier how you're having to balance a 4 and a 5 post counter

Oh, my posting restriction isn't a 4-thing, it's an "over half" thing. I am town, but I need to say that often. It's worth it tho, at least imo.

Btw, guessing it wasn't just me who got 2 of my picks weirdly mashed together rather than any 1 of my picks

Technically

speaking, I actually didn't get any of my picks at all. Technically. Granted, I kept up the tradition: I submitted troll picks, Ginngie took my troll picks and trolled me right back as per the case in prior games. (I was not disappointed; check both prior Ginngie uPicks to see what Ginngie gave me in them and you may have an idea for what I have available here.)

But I did not submit anything to do with 'lies' and yet that's what my role PM is.

I am a one shot miller cuz i got a free mage perk
go me

It saddens my town heart that Pooky is scum here. </3

2/5

[Ginngie]

VOTE: mastinaLal

VOTE: Yume

MOD: Is the lack of Gypyx vote on Yume accurate?

Vote count now includes it.

-I am hesitant to place Mastina given a recent scumgame of hers.

I realize that, and that's fair.

But I PROMISE you, I am town here.

I know it's weird that I am town, but I actually AM town here.

That's not a posting restriction, either. Well, I do have a restriction to

say

I am town more often than I would naturally say it, but even if I DIDN'T have the posting restriction, I still WOULD be saying I am town here because I genuinely AM town.

3/5

[mastina]

Since I'm town, time for a readslist!

Dunnstral
Roden
jjh927

Titus

Reinhardt

Frozen Angel
Lady Lambdadelta
Shiro

Gypyx
Enchant

Yume
PookyTheMagicalBear

4/5

Locktown town lean town null lean scum scum </3

[mastina]

I aM tOwN

[mastina]

Since I'm town, time for a readslist!

Dunnstral
Roden
jjh927

Titus

Reinhardt

Frozen Angel
Lady Lambdadelta
Shiro

Gypyx
Enchant

Yume
PookyTheMagicalBear

4/5

Locktown town lean town null lean scum scum </3

Pagetopping this.
1/5
Also, just to reiterate: yes, I am town.

[mastina]

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

Hello, because I am town, I think I missed the memo here.

Gypyx is a lean scum sure but why did we suddenly decide to put Gypyx at L-2?

I realize that asking this question will be suspect if Gypyx does end up flipping scum (but I'll manage, since I am in fact town), but, uh. Five votes manifesting out of nowhere in the span of six posts with absolutely no explanation whatsoever? I get that Gypyx looks suspect, but in a bastard game when I see five votes for a player with zero reason over the course of six posts, it makes me wonder if there's some sort of hidden mechanic that I wasn't invited to?

2/5

[mastina]

(That said,

Intent to hammer Gypyx

if there's one more vote there. I absolutely will cast a vote on Gypyx with so much as one more vote there, because ultimately, while I am town here, I feel like Gypyx has a high enough chance to flip scum that I'm not too concerned about some sort of shenanigans in the votes piled on especially given I townread 4/5 of the names involved.)

(3/5)

[mastina]

over half means you must say that in half of your posts or something bad happens?

Well, something I don't want to happen will happen if I don't. But rest assured, I am town, so it's fine.

VOTE: Gypyx

Titus I'm disappointed that you unvoted.

(4/5)

[mastina]

I aM tOwN

[mastina]

I aM tOwN

Yes I realize I don't need to say I am town while doing the challenge. It fun tho. 'Cause I AM town.

Dunnstral
Roden
Frozen Angel
jjh927

Titus

Reinhardt

Lady Lambdadelta
Shiro

Gypyx
Enchant

Yume
PookyTheMagicalBear


Locktown town lean town null lean scum scum </3

1/5

VOTE: Gypyx

Unvote: Gypyx

[mastina]

(Just reminding y'all that, yes, I am in fact town. For once.)

Everyone fear to post and fail challenge.

Why is it always crickets or zoomtastic? Glad I am ill during crickets

To be fair. Half the players in the game are V/LA and half the players in the game aren't sharing their reads/giving content/etc.

So it's not just the restriction of the game.

(For the record, this would be why slots like Titus, jjh, and myself are town. I am town; jjh is town; Titus is town; Enchant has moved up to null tbh from this in of itself.)

nOT SURE IF SHARING THEM IS ACTUALLY GOOD RN THO. i WANNA SEE THIS SHIT DEVELOP.

LLD look at the thread.

It ain't developing worth shit.

2/5

[mastina]

Updated readslist, since I am town.

3/5

Dunnstral
Frozen Angel
Roden
jjh927
Titus

Reinhardt

Enchant
Lady Lambdadelta

Shiro

Gypyx

Yume
PookyTheMagicalBear


Locktown lean town null (ambivalent) null (null) lean scum scum </3

[mastina]

4/5
So today has not been going well for me.

It starts with sleep deprivation. I got theoretically 4 hours of sleep last night, which probably translates to like half of that in actuality.

Then, on the drive to work, I noticed that there were some sort of gray fumes shooting out of my car's hood.

The smartest thing to do would've been to pull over immediately. Instead, I pushed the car until my work exit, where it promptly broke. As in, all warning lights turned on, steering got hard, brakes seemed on, "the car was stalled, the engine was dead" (to quote a certain song), car broke down.

I did get it into a good spot, but then I had to, in 40° weather, walk about a mile to work.

At work, I then was a solo opening guard, due to a miscommunication.

All of this means that, if you couldn't tell: I am having a bad day.

...What does that translate to for this game?

...Well, it means that I have something to say:




I am town.

[mastina]

I aM tOwN

[mastina]

1/5

Why is everyone suggesting all their power openly and not wifoming it?

Just be like me, the best lies are the truth and the best truth is the lies! (Btw that's actually a bit of a slogan for a mafia game idea I have that I want to run, but I want to run Ulterior Motive Mafia first.)

Like, I am town, you CAN trust me on that, but I'm also mastina so you know that I'm doing mastina things.

Hello, just wanted to remind y'all that, yes, I am in fact town.

I feel Dunn is playing politically.

I don't.

So anyway. Gypix claimed in our hood. Role is ... Fine..., nothing to get stars from, semi-useful.
He looks apathethic though, but it's always like that.

(I'm of two minds on this but overall still think Gypyx has a decent chance of being scum here btw.)

dang, talk about bad luck, i hope the rest of the day was better for ya at least

^(In part because this unironically feels like a scum response to my post. Obviously, today has been a hellhole for me; obviously, today has been shit for me. But I still used the opportunity to tell a bit of a joke, and this felt like a scum response to it.)

Yea to be fair I was posting I my hood but oh well.

May I ask why you were more active in your hood while having not have said anything game-relevant in this thread?

The Gypyx wagon sounds very unsettling to me, not cause I town read the slot but cause it lacks any sort of actual pressure or conversation and how "out of nowhere" it was formed

For the record, obviously, I shared similar sentiments. The Gypyx wagon sprang up out of nowhere, literally in the span of five posts. And then stayed there, even with some of the names involved changing.

But these concerns are mitigated by the fact that the only name on the wagon I am not townreading is Pooky. (Obviously includes myself since obviously, I am town.)

I am treating it as a masonry at the moment, it might bite me later but eh. Honestly I townread my whole hood

What a coincidence, I am also treating my neighborhood as a masonry and townread the entire neighborhood!

I know I am town; this is pretty damn obviously Dunnstral's towngame to me; Frozen Angel is radiating town here; Roden looks pretty damn town. (I'd say that content-wise Roden looks the most town but familiarity/strength-wise Roden is the least town/most likely to be wrong due to me not knowing Roden that well scumgame-wise, if that makes sense.) Since I know I am not scum, that means I legit feel my neighborhood is all town.

I posted this in my hood like a week ago but nobody said shit so I'm gonna go public with it now:
my solve rn is Mastina - LLD - Gypyx
Gypyx is cuz the dude is frozen scum
LLD is because Gypyx was frozen scum last time in Tenet when we played scum with him and LLD should want to yeet him out a window
Mastina is because her scumread of me is fake as fuck and not how town her treats me when she suspects I am scum because town her has suspected me many times and none have been as weak as this.
This concludes your scheduled content posting from me and I will go back to shitposting pls yeet Gypyx out a window thank you.
Also just another reminder that NOBODY SHOULD TARGET ME AT NIGHT because if I don't get targeted cool shit happens the next day thank you very much.

I realize that there's an incredibly low chance of Gypyx and Pooky being scum together (multiball isn't impossible in a Ginngie game to be fair tho), but I legit feel both have very high scum equity.

weird move but ok

Quoteth LLD,

tHIS IS pOOKY SCUM. i'VE SEEN IT ENOUGH TIMES NOW TO UNDERSTAND IT AND THE MOTIVATIONS, AND THIS IS THAT.

^This is my response to 289.

My vote remains.

This should be our next elimination

Pretty much, yeah. We're pretty much guaranteed 1-3 scum in {Gypyx, Pooky, Yume} in my opinion because almost everyone else is just town.

I am town.
Dunnstral is town here.
Frozen Angel is town here.
Roden is town here.
jjh is town here.
Titus is town here.

Who's that leave?

I have a weak townread on Reinhardt--if I have a wrong townread, it'd be here tbh, but it still exists.
I'm ambivalent on Enchant, who had a bit of a scumping early but whose engagement and the method of the engagement gives huge townvibes to me. I actually am starting to think Enchant is more town than Reinhardt here.

LLD is claiming mason--something that she wouldn't fakeclaim as town given how disastrously it has gone for her in the past, but I also doubt that she'd do that as scum.

So who's that leave?

{Shiro, Gypyx, Yume, PookyTheMagicalBear}.

Shiro is a nullread but may or may not be town off of content, hard for me to say as I am not a part of Shiro's hood.

Which means that the highest scum equity is just.

{Gypyx, Yume, PookyTheMagicalBear}.

So I will join wagons on any of them.

[mastina]

2/5

Oh I meant to include this.

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

Unvote: PookyTheMagicalBear

[mastina]

Have I mentioned that I am town today? 'Cause I am.

Could you elaborate on that one for me, Mastina?

Not particularly? The Frozen Angel in the neighborhood is the same as the Frozen Angel you see here. As in, pretty much exactly the same. Not literally-identical-posts, but the posts in the neighborhood are not some form of super secret suddenly makes the slot super town posts. Frozen Angel is town in the neighborhood for the same reasons she is town out here.

Which is just that she's strongly town in like...everything.

Fwiw while Pooky has accurately described what's going on in the hood, the activity we've had is indicative of town!Yume and I think it might be indicative of town!Pooky as well. In Pooky's case I note he has kinda started slow and span up towards where he is currently at. Might be worth me reading some decent Pooky scumgames over the weekend.

Might I introduce you to Don Corelone Finalist and Goodfellas partial winner PookyTheMagicalBear?

@mASTINA
wHEN HAVE i EXACTLY FAKE CLAIMED MASONS BEFORE AS TOWN? yOU APPEAR TO BE INSINUATING i HAVE.

I seem to recall you mentioning very-bad-for-the-town cost-the-town-the-game mason fakeclaims from town in past games? Something about janitoring the fake mason player?

The point I was making though is that you, knowing how bad a mason fakeclaim could fuck over the town, would probably not be making a fake mason claim here, and thus, are probably telling the truth.

3/5

[mastina]

OK I DIDNT EVEN REMEMBER THIS PART LOL

I would like to remind you all that I am town, but also, that this is legit just Pooky's Pokemon style scumplay here. (This would, incidentally, be the main way that Gypyx could be scum with Pooky for the record. Is

because

this is the Pokemon style of Pooky scumplay.)

lIKE YOU ARE SUPPOSEDLY A PGO AND i AM A LOVED POST RESTRICTED TOWNIE. tHAT IS IT. i AM PHOENIX WITH A CHANGELING RIDER, LOVED AND POST RESTRICTED.

Hello I am town and based off of my own town post restriction I would like to let it be known that I fully believe this claim to be true and town. Given what the mod saddled ME with as town, this is exactly the sort of thing that I would think was real and from town.

I also fully believe the masonized claim for a plethora of reasons.

LLD is never scum here and the player who masonized her is always town here no matter what.

4/5

[mastina]

I aM tOwN

[mastina]

(Just to remind y'all, yes, I am town.)

Go on about his Pokémon style plz

Well if you read Pooky v Koba from that game (a predecessor to the Pooky v Milobird which was similar but imo Pooky v Koba is a better comparison) it's legit Pooky from this game.

[mastina]

2/5

I'm not going to read that and just trust you believe in the meta.

More shit needs to happen so I can plan more evil things.

Just a warning, I may mislead but I will not deliberately say untruths usually.

Muhhahaha.

Back here, have read the thread but am not really able to catch up in responding to the thread tonight so I need to do a prodge yet I promise you I am town.

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I will participate in the challenge

1/4

Bit too "fuck this shit" to play right now (I legit bodyguarded LLD and made sure to announce this the MINUTE deadline had passed so as to make sure I could not be roleblocked or redirected on it, and then on my backup car--backup, because you may recall my main car had the radiator crack

less than a week ago

--I had a TIRE BLOW UP ON ME, so I'm just

done

with today tbh) but will be playing more in a bit.

VOTE: Yume

Yume/Shiro today are imo the only good options. I don't buy Gypyx as town since I don't think Titus's plan actually produced the conftown it was promised, but I am willing to appease Titus by not yeeting Gypyx today.

Also I need to remind y'all that yes, I am in fact town.

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

2/4

I am town.
Enchant is actually my strongest townread.
From there, we get more complicated.

I feel that jjh is being protown with his activity and the mediation between Enchant and Titus. This obviously is not a guarantee that jjh is town, but it's enough that I have zero interest in eliminating him today.

Next would probably be the members of my neighborhood. I'm not sure who to put in what order. I am equally townreading and yet doubting them all, in slightly different ways. As in, each of them, I have good reason to think is town, but each has a reason that makes me doubt that townread, in my paranoia. Yet each has a reason for reassuring me and to reinforce the townread.
In this sense, this places them all in the same bracket as jjh: I have zero interest in an elimination on any of them for the time being.

Below that, you get the situational read. Titus is still town in my eyes, but with an important caveat: Titus protects her scumbuddies. If she has done so, she's probably scum. This means that we don't consider eliminating her until AFTER a scum death.

Which leaves imo the priority eliminations in the remainder.

{Reinhardt, Shiro, Yume, Gypyx}
I still like Reinhardt enough to not want to go there.

Which leaves Shiro, Yume, and Gypyx.

Are all three scum?

Probably not.

But I don't think that all 3 would be town, given my thoughts.

Titus COULD be scum; jhh COULD be scum; someone from this neighborhood COULD be scum; etc.
...But for none of Shiro/Yume/Gypyx to be scum? All of the above would need to be true. And if so, fuck me.

So, I still wanna get at least 2/3 of them eliminated. Because the group has AT LEAST one scum by necessity, and probably two.

And thus.

I will vote any of Shiro/Yume/Gypyx today.

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

3/4

VOTE: Gypyx

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

1/4

Hype song:


I realize that's a hype scum for

scum

, but I swear I am town, it's just that my "hype" song for townplay isn't exactly "hype" so much as it is "fuck this town".

So while I am town, I don't have what I have as a true hype song for my alignment. Meaning I used the hype song for scumplay even tho I am town.

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

UNVOTE: Gypyx

I am town, but technically speaking, I need to do this for ~reasons~.

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Has anyone else noticed how shadows enchant was today?

Enchant's content seems fine this day? Been fairly active and contributing plenty?

3/4

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

Good thing my restriction is over 50% since I just forgot about it two posts in a row.

Suffice to say tho, I am town, even if I had a couple of slip-ups on my posting restriction.

1/4

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I'm pretty sure posts for the challenge won't count towards my restriction per Ginngie's ruling on D1 so I'm not as bad off as I previously thought, presumably, but I still want to add extra buffer to this since I am town.

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I am town and I need to track the posting restriction better, sorry for the minor spam, but I need to make sure I have kept up with both my post restriction and the challenge.

3/4

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I don't have much to say, other than I am town.

I realize I probably should have things to say, including explaining the Enchant townread more, Frozen Angel townread more, Roden townread more, and Dunnstral townread more, but at least

right now

, I'm not up to it even though at least one of these I was directly asked about. But, those

are

notable townreads of mine, with fairly good reasons for them. Add in me not wanting Titus or jjh today and you can see why I have the pool that I have.

1/4

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

2/4

I was missing something, though. Mastina's votes weren't counted. Mastina unvoting was counted as a vote. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the opposite of vote/unvote is whatever Mastina is actually doing

Yeah you figured it out.

That should put some extra context behind my statement of being disappointed that Titus got Gypyx off of L-1 yesterday; I was going to reaction test by casting a hammer vote on Gypyx (which wouldn't be an actual hammer because of the reversal in play). I'm pretty sure Titus figured it out D1, but I was trying to keep it under wraps for as long as possible to keep the potential for the reaction test around for as long as I could.

Alas, during the start of D2, I actually forgot about my own role--and so did Ginngie, incidentally enough. Ginngie and I both forgot, so after I remembered my role, I needed to do my intended action of joining the wagon and PM'd Ginngie to remind Ginngie of my role since we had both forgotten the mechanic.

Ah well.

I am town tho.

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

3/4

Mastina: Something to do with lying. Has a post restriction where like half of her posts have to claim she is town. Her votes appear to be unvotes and her unvotes appear to be votes (probably an upgrade based on my spec)

Wait did I mention 'something to do with lying' in this thread? I definitely did in my neighborhood but I don't remember claiming that out here. (Granted, terrible memory so it's possible I did, I just legit don't remember having done so.)

There is indeed that in play, did a sloppy (sloppy due to being in a rush) fullclaim in my hood (will do a better claim when I have more free time), but I am town and I suggest you take a look at my D1 vote history to see how well your 'upgrade' theory holds up. (I actually gave away the mechanic accidentally in like, basically my first post. I attempted to disguise it later with bolded unvotes since I know Ginngie counts bolded unvotes, but my first unvote was with the unvote tag.)

Also I am town and will double-check jjh's mechanical rundown when having more time. (I'm 40ish minutes late leaving for work.)

[mastina]

I will always copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, and then copy this, at the beginning of literally every post after realising it might help other people too

I'm town btw.

[mastina]

I will participate

I am town, and I have a lot to review and also to REVEAL, once I am home.

[mastina]

Okay so I realize I am town but I haven't

finished

processing the actions, but that's because I am working on a combined one-post list of everything claimed, as to digest it all at once.

It is attempting to include XP every player has, what they purchased, when, what they claimed, when they used it, etc., so could you do me a favor and post everything out here? (Exception, my neighborhood since they can do it in there.)

I'm sorry it's taking a while but I think that it will be worth it to have it all in one post, so that we can then look at it, make any corrections needed, etc.

I know I'm town but am taking a while, but I think that it will be worth it to have compiled.

[mastina]

I'm town (and promise I will be contributing, the post with the claims I feel will give me clarity and allow me to hone in on things beyond the obvious of we're eliminating Dwlee today)

[mastina]

Hello, as a reminder I am town. Probably not finishing my work tonight, but should be better going into the future.

No
This makes public who is in better positions for various actions and makes counterplay more likely, while simultaneously requiring literally everyone to post. There is a reason I didn't post my counts of everyone's exp as of eod1

Unless this post will literally nail a scum guaranteed somehow it's probably not a great decision that you know full well is going to need more participation than you will reasonably get. It's just gonna stall the game

Oh I think I

have

nailed a scum.

Just thought I'd remind the thread that giving someone in a shared hood 1 exp is a possible action, and can grant access to the engineer ability right at the start of night 1 if someone has generated 2 exp themself (read: by being on wagon and completing the challenge with no do-over.)
Use discretion for the visibility of such transactions as of course, scum also share a PT and can presumably also share exp 1:1.

This may present a rare opportunity to catch scum for embezzlement at some point in the game.

You were literally the person who said it could be possible to catch scum embezzling, with the information that

I am seeking to have

.

You were

right

back then but have now taken the opposite (and wrong) stance.

As for stalling, we know the elimination is going to be Dwlee. There is no discussion to be had there. Everything we are doing is in planning for the future. If there was no value to be had in discussing, we'd have just eliminated Dwlee--but clearly, there IS value in discussion. That discussion will involve players being active, because what else do they have to do? Literally the only options are to be active or to prod dodge. Some will choose the latter (in spite of it being antitown), but enough should choose the former.

There's no stalling to be had; there's no derailing of the game thread to be had. Discussing claims, actions, etc. is

literally the only reason the day hasn't ended yet

, and you're trying to dissuade us from doing

the thing that we are keeping the day phase open for

.

I have had a scumread on you since D2, but I didn't state it because I felt that in spite of my scumread there, you were still helping the town. That regardless of your alignment, you were still helping the town more than you were not. That either my scumread there was wrong and you were town helping the town, or my scumread was right and you were scum helping the town, but either way were helping the town.

But that "helping the town" has stopped today since now you can't afford to.

A town-jjh here would realize that, especially with Dwlee flipping scum, there would be extreme value in honing in on the last scum by using all of the information at the town's disposal to eliminate them. After all, Gypyx was scum and Dwlee will flip scum, so

presumably

, there would only be one scum left. One scum cannot have counterplay to the entirety of the town, but the entirety of the town being coordinated basically causes the doors to close in on the scum.

There's a reason that one of the main places towns massclaim in minis is when there's two scum dead (and Dwlee will effectively be precisely that).

Your insistence on

not

doing the thing that you, earlier in the game,

rightly said could catch scum

, when we know there's one dead scum and another on the chopping block today, is an outright scumclaim. (Of course you'll inevitably have some form of bullshit answer to why I'm mistaken here but my point is right here. I have felt the strong gut urge of jjh-scum since D2 since there was something "off" about his play, something "off" about the things he was saying, the things he was doing, etc. I don't need the hypocrisy/mechanics-misplay-effective-guilty on jjh, but it exists no matter what jjh's excuse for this may be.)

[mastina]

Why do you have Mastina over Enchant ? Am I missing something here ?

I'm town, that's what.

I'll obviously be going into more details after burning my wasted chair post, but since chairposting and phoneposting are a poor mix, can't post again until I am home.

(Basically though, you should know: if it comes down to it, I'm NEVER losing a 1v1 against jjh because the way that I am town is something that jjh might attempt to defend against but which he fundamentally is incapable of pulling off. I am effectively conftown. Not literally, sadly, but EFFECTIVELY I am. )

But since I am here and I am town, I should do this.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Obviously, it'd be better if I casted the hammer vote, but I will still take,

L-1

[mastina]

VOTE: dwlee99
GET ME OUT

#GOTTEM!

Okay so I am town, and on MY end, this chair is showing, so it SHOULD count for the challenge, at least that's the hope, since I am phoneposting and I am town, so I'm not sure if this will display for Ginngie. (If it doesn't, I'm sure that it'd take almost zero troubleshooting to get the right image to display, so Ginngie could edit any brokenness to not be broken. But, this is a troll chair, to be clear. )

Anyway, I couldn't resist doing this. The setup was just too perfect.

I think that sufficiently proves both that I am not scum with Dwlee (because I'm town, just town), and ALSO hardclears my neighborhood from being scum with Dwlee, since I reminded them of my role after I casted my "vote".

So good luck trying to argue that I'm scum now, jjh. I'm town, and Dwlee's failed attempt at a self-hammer is proof not only confirms that Dwlee is scum (as if we needed more proof), but also just hardcleared four players.

[mastina]

I will participate

mastina is still mafia
i havent read shit btw

Clearly not since if you had you'd know that I'm basically conftown here.

I'm town.

And while FA is out of the game and the scum for whatever reason killed Dunnstral (that said, Roden, uhh...what happened to vampires being nontown??? Dunn was town...), there can only be one scum and Roden can still vouch for how I am town in a dozen different ways, including:

So everyone is completely aware. I've been asked if you're allowed to reinvest in a skill tree after completing it. The answer is yes, it works exactly the same in that you have to buy the skills from top to bottom again.

Guess who was the one who asked that?

It was me. I shared it with my neighborhood and I reinvested in the Warrior tree.

N1 I bodyguarded LLD; last night, I bodyguarded Titus.

UNVOTE: jjh

[mastina]

I'm town.

[mastina]

and a detective shot that I used on Mastina last night and I found her guilty as she attempted to shoot someone last night.
She had a vig shot but she claimed that she used it the night before so its impossible that her kill come from that. So I think we can consider this as a hard guilty.

I'm town and we're discussing this in the neighborhood but suffice to say FA should not have an actual guilty on me since while I did attempt a kill N2, I

couldn't

kill N3 no matter what. It's literally impossible for me to have done so.

[mastina]

I'm town, yo.

[mastina]

This is probably the worst bus vote of all time

That would be because it's not a bus vote given I am town.

I am town by literally every metric possible.

My play is not my scumplay, past OR present.
The way I treated Gypyx/Dwlee is provably and demonstrably a way that I've

never

treated scumbuddies in the past

ever

because there literally is only two ways scumastina treats scumbuddies:
Either I try to defend the scumbuddies by not voting them...
...Or I try to be the sacrificial lamb and bus them with the intent of my death conftowning them.

Every scumgame of mine follows that basic pattern because it is quite simply: the most optimal way to play scum.

If you're going to defend scum, you need to

defend

scum. Defending scum without defending scum is stupidly obvious and everyone looks for it as being from scum. (Whereas if you hard-defend scum, people tend to think wrong-town instead.)
If you're going to bus scum, you need to

bus

scum. That means actively scumreading, pushing, and voting them. Bussing scum by hopping onto the wagon when momentum shifts that way is stupidly obvious and everyone looks for it as being what scum bussing do.

Like, literally. Every time I look for bussing, I look for the players who do precisely that. I look not for the players who hard-pushed or hard-defended. I look for the players who hedged their bets, because statistically speaking, that's where scum tend to be.

I realize that, yes, scumastina has invented new scum strategies this year. I realize that, yes, scumastina always evolves her play. I realize that, yes, scumastina needs to not fall into trust tells so playing to her win condition involves breaking established towntells whenever is possible.

So I realize that it is

possible

for this to be the first scumgame I've had where I would do that.

Possible

--not probable.

Because the most probable is that my scumplay uses the same tactics that I know have worked for literally years. Literally both my scum wins this year were not reinventing the wheel; they were just a return to form of the old scumastina formula that worked for years upon years prior to that. And both fell into one of the two archetypes above. In subreddit uPick, I hard-defended both scumbuddies for as long as I could and tried to save them for as long as I possibly could. In CONTROL, I hard-bussed

my entire scumteam

because I wanted to prop my scumbuddies up in the case that I went down early. (As it so happened, it ended up that I was propped up instead, but that's the thing about hard-bussing; it works regardless of which scum is the survivor in having the intended effect of propping the other up.)

The treatment of Gypyx and Dwlee do not match my scumplay at all.

More than that, the way I have played my role in response to the wagons on scum is provably not-scumbuddy-indicative:
On D1 I wanted to use my role to fake-hammer Gypyx via use of the vote tag. This is not something scumastina would have done. Even were she to have done so, she would have made sure to then follow through and make sure Gypyx actually DID get a reaction in. The cast of a real L-1 vote instead of a fake-hammer is literally counterproductive to the very thing I was out to accomplish. And the proof I was out to accomplish that is in my posting, too! I literally said what I wanted to do.

On D3 I

successfully

baited out a not-actually-hammer from Dwlee via my use of the vote tag--

while reminding my neighborhood of my role

. This had the effect of

conftowning my entire neighborhood

. If I were scum, then I would have either used it to reaction test Dwlee (in an attempt to save Dwlee with AtE), or Dwlee would have known that my L-1 was not an L-1 via being my scumbuddy. Except Dwlee didn't know because Dwlee isn't scum with anyone from the Sneak neighborhood.

My reads this game are reads that I have never given before as scum--the very fact that I had a scumread on you, Pooky, and

acted on it

is proof of that. Ditto for me having a scumread on jjh since D2.

Name once that scumastina has, to a NOTABLE SCUMMER, had them as a strong scumread and

followed through with a strong push on them

.

I sure can't think of any times because scumastina avoids antagonizing strong notable scummers. scumastina would never antagonize, say, LLD on D1 because of sheer

fear

that doing so would backfire.

But a town-mastina has made her beliefs frustratingly clear, as LLD can attest to. I literally got LLD tilted from

successfully pushing a D1 mislim on her

when we were both town, but I scumread her. Because when I am town, I don't care how notable the scummer is, how strong a player they are--if I think they are scum,

I will push them as scum

.

When it came to my scumread on you, yes, I was wrong, and after it was shown and proven that I was wrong, I never went back to it and said I was wrong because there was no point in having done so, the proof I was wrong was in your flip and there was nothing more to say about it than that. But don't you fucking DARE think for a second that there was no reason behind that.

Yes, I thought you were scum. Why? Because you were acting exactly the way I expect a scum-Pooky to act and not acting the way I expect a town-Pooky to act. You were acting in a way where you were going "lol" to things the same way you did in Pokemon, but instead of being lighthearted humor where you were having fun (which is one town behavior), or being actually-serious (which is another town behavior), you were a weird in-between that was too serious for jokey-Pokey, but too lighthearted for tryhard-solving-Pooky.

I didn't get to explain that before D1 ended, but I was going to before you self-hammered. You literally cut off my argument before I could make it but I was intending to argue

exactly this

above, and yes, it remains true! It was

wrong

, as proven by your flip, but I stand by the logic still applying and being

valid

, if slightly off. I realized in hindsight that I had miscalibrated my Pooky extremes-meter, but I never had reason to say this after the fact (the realization of how I miscalibrated the Pooky radar literally came to me as I was in bed, about to sleep, during a night phase some random night and was so inconsequential given you had already flipped that

I don't even remember the miscalibration-logic I realized

that night, as in, I figured out where I went wrong and how to fix it that night but it was so unimportant to me that I have since forgotten what I did wrong and what the fix was) because there was just no reason for me to.

I realize that my solving hasn't all been public in large part due to a combination of phoneposting and the challenge (no challenge in the PTs = can freely post in the PT with the only requirement there being to say I'm town since I am), but the fact is I've done quite extensive solving there as well, solving that goes beyond my capabilities as scum to do, and in thought processes that

I just don't have as scum

.

But let's remedy that, shall we?

I'm going to do a full paraphrase of my posting from the PT. (I think I'm technically allowed to 'quote without quote tags' it, as long as it doesn't contain quotes/links from the PT, but since this is 'I think' rather than 'I know', I'm not in the mood to eat a modkill/site ban so there will still be some paraphrasing to be had, except for my fullclaim which is already paraphrased.)

Now, I realize that giving timestamps in an attempt to confirm the timing of posts to gain an unfair advantage is against site rules, but I believe it should still be okay to give general timestamps so you have an idea of chronology. (An idea of chronology should be okay since it can help differentiate day phases, loose dates, etc., but isn't meant to confirm that these things happened at a specific time that is designed to be unfakeable. Not that it should matter since I have neighborhood members who can vouch for this.)

(I'm going to burn another post to do the paraphrase btw)

(in the mean time I will post the claim tho since Roden asked me to post the fullclaim of it)

mastina:

Spoiler: Claim stuff

I am town, so the role innately inherently is one that was designed as a town role because that's my alignment; I am town. I rolled town so I got a role designed to be a town role.

I submitted as my three Fantasy picks,
1:

I never fakeclaim as scum.

2:

You can track every login I ever make by checking my 'last visited'!

and,
3:

If I post, I'm town; if I don't, I'm scum.

(Okay so my final role I suppose kinda sorta takes from the third a little bit but I technically got none of these as my role.)

I'm in a rush so I can't explain why those were my picks right now (short version: me being cheeky, in keeping with a Ginngie modded game tradition, can explain the tradition when I have more time), but instead of any of those, I got,
"Liar Liar Pants on Fire"; my ability is to lie and lie again. (This is an actual ability btw but it's mostly a passive.)

In addition to that primary ability (presumably, the primary ability would be swappable the same way it was with LLD but this part wouldn't be), I start out with a passive ability; since posting = I'm town, I'm required to post that I am town, or else I convert to 3p. (This isn't as good a paraphrase as I would like but I am in a rush and I don't want my rush to get me modkilled so I have to accept a subpar paraphrase rather than risk a too-close one.)

I think it's tailored towards me being town but it's theoretically possible to be a scum role? But it isn't, since I'm town.[/quote]

I was missing something, though. Mastina's votes weren't counted. Mastina unvoting was counted as a vote. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the opposite of vote/unvote is whatever Mastina is actually doing

Yeah you figured it out.

That should put some extra context behind my statement of being disappointed that Titus got Gypyx off of L-1 yesterday; I was going to reaction test by casting a hammer vote on Gypyx (which wouldn't be an actual hammer because of the reversal in play). I'm pretty sure Titus figured it out D1, but I was trying to keep it under wraps for as long as possible to keep the potential for the reaction test around for as long as I could.

Alas, during the start of D2, I actually forgot about my own role--and so did Ginngie, incidentally enough. Ginngie and I both forgot, so after I remembered my role, I needed to do my intended action of joining the wagon and PM'd Ginngie to remind Ginngie of my role since we had both forgotten the mechanic.

Ah well.

I am town tho.

The ability to lie is the vote/unvote reversal by the way. That's my actual town power role. I hinted at this previously in this neighborhood in the context of LLD's roleclaim, but this is me confirming it just like how I'm confirming that, yes, I'm town.[/quote]Okay so a full paraphrase with all the cards revealed:

I submitted as my three Fantasy picks,
1:

I never fakeclaim as scum.

2:

You can track every login I ever make by checking my 'last visited'!

and,
3:

If I post, I'm town; if I don't, I'm scum.

I am town, and my role is, "Liar Liar Pants on Fire".
My main ability is to lie repeatedly, which is my vote/unvote swap. This is considered my primary ability.
My passive is a requirement that at least half of my posts say "I'm town". If I don't, I will change alignment to Werewolf. This makes me gain the power to bite players every Even Night phase. The Werewolf win condition is to be the last player alive.

However, as I am town, my wincon is to have all threats to the town be eliminated with at least one town player alive--since the Werewolf win condition is to be the last player alive and the town wincon requires a town player alive, that means the Werewolf win condition is mutually exclusive with the town's. It is as far as I can tell akin to a Serial Killer.

Thus, why I need to stay town because this town is on track to win imo.

I'll see if I can sort things out in a bit with reading and processing and gathering info and consolidating it.

Extra context:

It's important to note that I have done a particular thing in every single Ginngie game.

In Do it for the Vine uPick, Ginngie asked for submissions of Vines, as in, 6 second videos from the site Vine.
I didn't know what Vines from the site Vine were--so instead, I submitted picks that were Vines, as in, the plant.

Ginngie, appropriately, to what amounted to a troll pick from me, gave me a cult role in response.

In Joint Pick 4 U, Ginngie asked for submissions of drugs.
Two of my 'drug' submissions were literally 'masturbating' and 'mafiascum'. (I forget what the third was.)
These not being the drugs Ginngie had in mind, similar to how Vines the plant were not the Vines Ginngie had in mind, Ginngie appropriately gave me a 3p role.

In this game, I deliberately kept the tradition up. Ginngie asked for Fantasy picks, as in, picks from works from the Fantasy genre.

Instead, I submitted things that would count as 'Fantasies', or things that at least

should

be Fantasies, per the mafiascum mod team.
Which resulted in me getting the role that I have, where I'm town.

XP Distribution:

At end of D1, had 2 XP. (.25 + Challenge + End of day wagon + end of day.)
Bought BP (automatically active, protects once from one killing action) + Bodyguard (all killing actions on target redirected towards user instead).

Night 1,

Bodyguarded

Lady LambdaDelta

(this by necessity

failed

)

At end of D2, had 2.5 XP (.25 + Challenge + video + End of day wagon + end of day.)

Bought Engineer + Warrior-Secret (Vigilante--works as a standard Vig action, killing one target)

Used

Engineer

on

Frozen Angel

immediately into N2.

Used

Vigilante

on

Yume

N2.

At end of D3, had 2 XP (.5 + .25 + Challenge + end of day)

Bought BP (automatically active, protects once from one killing action) + Bodyguard (all killing actions on target redirected towards user instead).

Night 3,

Bodyguarded

Titus

.

I will give the full paraphrase of the PT shortly.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, really.

[mastina]

I think the issue with your hood is that you have been listening to Mastina too much, and when I see her claim I'm probably gonna call you all clowns for thinking it conftowns her somehow

It does because I can't make this shit up as scum.

Site rules mean that it is forbidden to say "I don't fakeclaim as scum", but,
-The above shouldn't be that since the above is me saying this is beyond my ability to make shit up as scum since

I literally don't think that way

, and,
-Check some prior posting particularly what's written in this post and let's just say, look at what the linked posts say and think about how likely it is that I make this shit up. While I'm saying it's physically impossible for me to think that way,

even if I could

, let's just say that the chances would be quite...shall we say? ...Improbable.

Do you think town!Mastina makes the clearly disingenuous argument that she is somehow conftown because Dwlee 'fell' for her fake E-1?

The only thing disingenuous about that is YOU

saying it is

.

You of all people should know DAMN fucking good and well that

yes

, I believe that Dwlee genuinely fell for the fake L-1.
I have a fair understanding of Dwlee as a player. I know the way they play, what they are prone to doing. How they tend to not pay the closest attention to things like exact mechanics/roles. The gambit would never work if it was

you

at L-1, jjh, but it worked specifically because it was

Dwlee

. Dwlee is exactly the type of player who COULD be baited by my role, and by virtue of having been baited by my role, end up spewing players from it.

The disingenuous thing isn't me thinking that Dwlee falling for it cleared four players--the disingenous thing is

you arguing that it is disingenuous

.

Also, a key question:
Where's the scum nightkills from both N2 and N3?

I used a vig shot on Yume. That means that if I were scum I'd have shot elsewhere. Who would I have shot N2 that would not be killable N3?
"But mastina! What if it was Dwlee making the kill and the kill was rolestopped?!?"
Oh you mean rolestopped by

one of my neighbors

who CLAIMED THE ROLESTOP BEFORE THE END OF THE NIGHT?
Yeah, the flaw in that should be evident; if I were scum with Dwlee, Dwlee would not be making the N2 nightkill

while knowing that Dwlee was going to be blocked

.
So it would

need

to be ME making the N2 nightkill. Where was the N2 nightkill from me?
Where was the N3 nightkill from me?

I wasn't blocked either night.
I shot Yume with the vig N2 and Roden claimed to be shooting Yume N3, so I wouldn't use a nightkill on Yume on either N2/N3.

So where's the scum nightkill if I am scum?

Occam's razor instead suggests that the scum nightkill N2 was rolestopped by Dunnstral since the scum

did not know about it

, and that N3 the scum nightkill was on Titus but was foiled by a bulletproof bodyguard on her.

Speaking of the kills though, they don't match up with a scumastina MO anyway. LLD is a good nightkill but she's not who I N1 strongman. I kill her before endgame always, sure, but I don't kill her N1, not even when she's conftown. My N1 here would be Titus, since Pooky so helpfully pointed out that Titus was the masonizer on D1 and scumastina would be smart enough to realize Pooky was right in that callout. A Titus death N1 would set LLD off on the wrong path (since it would make Titus's influence on LLD's stances larger), and LLD on the wrong path does more damage than Titus on the wrong path. I kill LLD on N2 and if she's got a BP repeat it on N3, or even holster the strongman N1 and use it on LLD N2.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, really, truly.

[mastina]

By your logic it would also conftown Yume and I, since we both noticed it as well. I explicitly didn't post in main thread after you did it so I could see what happened

Oh, I knew you were going to bring that up, and yes, I did think about it. I did think about how you would have noted my role in the scum PT and how, after Dwlee flipped scum, you would argue by my own logic it'd clear you.

The thing about that is.

That would require you to have thought to

re-note it after I cast the fake L-1

, and for Dwlee to then read that renoting of it.

Noting it in the scum PT wouldn't be good enough because it would require Dwlee to remember.

Now you might argue, "mastina that also applies to you, if you were Dwlee's scumbuddy Dwlee would need to remember", except as I have already said,

I specifically reminded my neighborhood about my role

; if I was scum with Dwlee, I would have done so to Dwlee as well.

And while I believe that a scum-jjh notes my role in the scum PT, I

do not

believe that a scum-jjh has the foresight to, after I casted the fake L-1,

remind Dwlee about my role

. And it takes that latter action in order for you to not be scum. It's not just you having noted the role, it's a requirement that you note the role

at the right time

, because by my profile of Dwlee, Dwlee would not remember it having been said earlier.

After all, it was explicitly already put in the thread earlier. Dwlee clearly forgot about my role in spite of the info needed to know about my role being fully public. So if Dwlee forgot about my role when the info was public, Dwlee would still have forgotten about my role when the info was noted in the scum PT but not noted

recently enough

. (Also as an aside, it's harder to forget the role/mechanics of scumbuddies than it is for town roles.)

And I'm afraid you've made too many arguments that I know you know to be completely meaningless for you to be town here.

This is rats-ass backwards and YOU FUCKING KNOW IT.

I literally have it on my flowchart for DAMN FUCKING GOOD REASON, "if mastina's arguments make sense, she's scum; if her arguments don't make sense, she's town" because

my arguments as town are not as precise as my arguments as scum

. My arguments as town tend to be more scattered and less coherent, and my arguments as scum tend to be more surgical, precise, and clinical, cutting out the unnecessary noise to say only the most effective thing in the moment without the clutter of the less effective shit. When I am scum my arguments are more organized and preplanned; my arguments as town lack that preplanning and are thus less organized, more scattered.

And you fucking know it and are lying your ass off right now about my play.

I'm looking for not your towngame

1: I have more than one towngame, and,
2: This is 200% my towngame. I am town.

Like.

What are you going to say when I fucking flip town?

"Oh she must've been Werewolf"?

"Oh, guess I was wrong"?

No.

I am town.

I FLIP TOWN YOU FUCKING DIE NEXT JJH.

Because I am town.

This IS my towngame.

You make disingenuous point after disingenuous point.

You say all of the things that are

signatures of my towngame

are "not my towngame" and

lie about what my towngame is

, you.
fucking.
die.
For it.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, Fuck off Pooky.

[mastina]

Oops that was meant to also have this.
I'm town by the way.

The fuck are these submits, and what they have to do with fantasy.

Extra context:

It's important to note that I have done a particular thing in every single Ginngie game.

In Do it for the Vine uPick, Ginngie asked for submissions of Vines, as in, 6 second videos from the site Vine.
I didn't know what Vines from the site Vine were--so instead, I submitted picks that were Vines, as in, the plant.

Ginngie, appropriately, to what amounted to a troll pick from me, gave me a cult role in response.

In Joint Pick 4 U, Ginngie asked for submissions of drugs.
Two of my 'drug' submissions were literally 'masturbating' and 'mafiascum'. (I forget what the third was.)
These not being the drugs Ginngie had in mind, similar to how Vines the plant were not the Vines Ginngie had in mind, Ginngie appropriately gave me a 3p role.

In this game, I deliberately kept the tradition up. Ginngie asked for Fantasy picks, as in, picks from works from the Fantasy genre.

Instead, I submitted things that would count as 'Fantasies', or things that at least

should

be Fantasies, per the mafiascum mod team.
Which resulted in me getting the role that I have, where I'm town.

^

It's non-committal; you still kept the scum in the pool because you couldn't argue against the consensus, but you have only voted scum

when you can gain a better position from it

.

This is probably the worst bus vote of all time

These things do not go together. I realize you're not Pooky but the point remains;
I inherently fundamentally cannot gain a "better position" from what, as Pooky describes, is "the worst bus vote of all time".

My vote on Gypyx and lack of vote on Dwlee are the

opposite

of getting a better position.

I literally lost out on XP from not being on the Dwlee wagon yesterday.

I literally joined at the worst possible time in the worst possible way on the Gypyx wagon both on D1 and on D2.

When you're town, you can make insincere arguments, and you often do so in early day 1 because it generates content- ie, it has a pro-town purpose behind it.

Thing is, you're still making insincere arguments right now when there's no pro-town purpose behind it.

Projection, thy name is jjh.

This is precisely why YOU are scum, jjh.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, no matter what's said.

[mastina]

I'm town btw.

Mastina, how can your 'belief' that Dwlee fell for the fake E-1 conftown YOU?

Because,
-Scumbuddies are more likely to remember the role of their scumbuddies,
-I would have very specifically told Dwlee about the gambit,
-The gambit isn't timed correctly for me as Dwlee's scumbuddy but IS timed correctly for me as town,
-I don't think of moves like this as scum but have a

very fucking long history

of thinking of these sorts of moves as town,
-I literally wouldn't be able to so much as

think

of the gambit in the first place as scum because scumastina has a philosophy of KISS, keeping plans simple and not inventing extra steps to them.

Like, you're saying that your belief in a thing makes it more likely that it conftowns you when that makes no sense as you're lying if you're scum.

Yeah and among my many scum skills, faking conviction is

not

among them. My strength as a scum player comes from genuine conviction in what I am saying to be true, or true enough.

So when it comes to the conviction involved, it's not whether it's real or not because it's

always

real.

It's more to do with how likely that conviction is to come from town vs how likely that conviction is to come from scum.

My belief that Dwlee hard-conftown'd four players is not conviction that comes from scum because scumastina doesn't think to conftown three players with herself as a fourth.

Like, genuinely, and this is something that will be revealed in more detail if I have the time to actually paraphrase my posting like I promised I would do earlier before this conversation got started, there's only so many players who could be scum.

Titus
LLD*
Frozen Angel
Shiro*
Roden**, Dwlee**

Enchant

Yume

jjh
*Conditional on the rez not rezzing the target as the rezzer's alignment and/or Shiro/LLD being nightkilled again
**Yes, claims mutually exclusive, will cross that bridge later

Titus is just conftown--there's no way she isn't.
LLD was so conftown the scumteam strongman killed her N1. The one and only way she

could

be scum is via a change in alignment post-revive. The mechanics of the rez being confirmed, Shiro's death, or LLD's death would all disprove this so while it's something to keep an eye on, for all intents and purposes, LLD is conftown because there's only one very very specific scenario where it would be possible so basically always town, about as town as I am. (Since I am town.)
Frozen Angel is town for literally dozens of reasons.
Shiro is technically not conftown for rezzing LLD, but the scum literally strongman killed LLD N1; why bring her back as scum? So, probably town.
{Roden, Dunnstral} has weird shenanigans going on but cannot be scum with Dwlee.

For one scum, that leaves {Echant, Yume, jjh}.

This is not belief I can fake up as scum; this solving is not something I have ever done before as scum and is the

pinnacle

of my townplay which you fucking KNOW.

The reason YOU are pushing me is because

you have no choice but to

. You fucking KNOW this is my towngame.

I am saying it was theatre and that you could very easily have told Dwlee to 'self hammer' in the scum PT-

This is something that applies in theory and is valid play in theory but falls apart for

applying to me specifically

and the situation of the game thread.

You are arguing something you know is

possible

, ignoring how likely it is to be

plausible

, because you fucking know that you can get away with it.

And you are ignoring all the reasons for me to be town.
You ignored my claim basically in its entirety.
You ignored my night actions in their entirety.
You ignored all of my points about the neighborhood's actions and the (lack of) scum nightkills.
You are ignoring the points that are inconvenient to your narrative, in order to try and focus on the "weakest" parts of my argument and you are a fucking scumbag for it.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, no matter what others say.

[mastina]

I'm town.

like how could anyone POSSIBLY PRETEND IN A GAME BASED ON LYING LOLOL

Pooky I can't say "go fuck yourself" because I'm pretty sure that would get me banned but...

You are an ASSHAAT
OPF A FUCKING CLOWN.

So go FUICKING OWN THAT YH)OUIRARTE SUIT AT REEADING ME AFTER I FUICKING FLIP EXACTLY WHAT I AID I WOULD.

I am town.

If I failed my post restriction, I had the

potential

to be a

form

of scum but since I

haven't

failed my posting restriction, I'm town still.

I will own up to being wrong, when push comes to shove.

I will still attempt to read players because I have to.

But I will be upfront in admitting the mistake when push comes to shove.

AND YIOU FUCKING OWE ME FOR YOUR FUCKING GBULLSHIT RIGHT NOW SO FUCKIGUIOWN UP TO IT RIGHT HERE AND NOW AND ASY THAT WHEN I FLCUKIGN FLIP TOWN THAT YOU ARE FUCKIGN SHIT AT R RESAFING ME AND YOU FORFEIT ALL RIGHTS TO REAFING ME IN THE FUTURE.

Because therer is ZERO reason for you to think I am scum here except you being SO FUCKING OFF.

in fact there's no way in hell mastina!scum could say to dwlee!scum hey im going to fake l-1 you so you can fake hammer yourself

As a matter of fact?

In fact there is no way in hell scumastina could say that because that's not how scumastina thinks.

don't worry
dying isn't actually that bad
been there done that

Oh but it is when WE COULD HAVE A PERFECT GAME BY FUCKING ELIMINATING SCUM TODAY if all the town needs to win is 3 mafia dead.
That, aside from how if there

is

3p shenanigans going around with far fewer town players than we think, losing so much as one town player could in fact actually be bad. The town does not get unlimited eliminations. You said it yourself:

this game feels super fucking busted if town people can just come back from the dead
i feel like we're getting bamboozled somewhere

If the game is 10:3, the reviving dead town is ridiculously strong.
Since I have the potential to not be town, even generously, that'd be 9:3:1, which is still too strong for the revive dead town.
The chance for there being more shenanigans than we've assumed is

precisely why I refuse to be mislimmed

.

That, aside from the fact that the last time I was mislimmed was the first game that I almost got banned in, Ali vs Pine.

Literally the last time I got mislimmed was

FOUR FUCKING YEARS AGO

, because my townplay is just. that. damn. obvious. And this is it.

Why would scum actually want Dwlee to 'not realise' it was a fake hammer?

Scum

would

want Dwlee to realize it was a fake hammer, that's my point precisely for why Dwlee not realizing it wasn't a real hammer makes all the members of the sneak neighborhood conftown.

He was already guiltied scum and it's actually +scum to have him on the wagon since it denies town exp

Only if someone hammers after Dwlee L-1s themselves.

If Dwlee left their self-vote on, guess what?

While that denies us one member on the wagon, it allows for the entire rest of the wagon to be what the town chooses it to be. Since Dwlee couldn't cast a hammer vote while already self-voting, that means the only way for the day to end was if the town chose to let the day end and have a wagon composition they were satisfied with.

In other words, Dwlee casting the self-vote without it being an actual hammer was incredibly pro-town because it would let the town choose the other five names on the wagon freely.

I literally have it on my flowchart for DAMN FUCKING GOOD REASON,

Yea I'm not going to trust a flow chart written by you for your alignment lol

Okay but you're literally fucking IGNORING TWEN DOZEN OTHER REAONS FOR ME TO BE TOWN that are BEYOND MY ABILITIES that you KNOW are beyond what I do as scum.

That aside from the fact that the fucking flowchart has always remained relevant and accurate for TEN FUCKING YEARS by now.

like I understand LLD/Titus deciding to throw me out a window cuz lolmechsolve but the shit those other 3 came up with for voting me was literally unbelievably bad and I doubt it came from a town POV

I literally EXPLAINED MY FULL REASONING but you fucking skipped it because lol mastina wallpost so go fucking read.

Why would scum!me not have got on the Dwlee wagon well before your E-1 and just got Dwlee to hammer?

Why would scumastina not have cast a

real

Dwlee vote and just got Dwlee to hammer?

Why would scum!me have got Shiro to res LLD over Pooky

Is there any tangible difference in the order of the resurrections done? A resurrected player is still resurrected no matter if the resurrection was N3 or N4, so resurrecting them in a specific order doesn't shed any light on alignment.

But as an aside I am also proven to have commuted last night phase which would be an interesting move if I was the last scum

Okay and by what rulebook does a Commute disable scum from multitasking?

That it doesn't make flavor sense for scum to kill from out of town?

...No, nothing in Multitasking/Commuter notes from a

mechanics

/

Normal Game

perspective, that a Commuter cannot also kill. A Mafia Commuter cannot kill while commuting if the scum

lack

multitasking, sure! But a Mafia Commuter is, explicitly, completely and entirely permitted to kill if the scum have multitasking.

Something you as a mechanically-oriented player are perfectly aware of.

[mastina]

I'm town, no matter how much you desire otherwise.

[mastina]

her argument about dwlee conftowning her like YOU CAN GET YOUR SCUMBUDDY TO CONFTOWN YOU IN THREAD IS A FUCKING JOKE AND I CANT BELIEVE ANYONE COULD TAKE IT SERIOUSLY FOR EVEN TWO SECONDS.

This is me. My logic. I'm town but my logic is still there and valid; saying it isn't doesn't make it not valid it just makes you a fucking asshole.

its such a level of absurdity that I don't understand how a rational human being could possibly believe it.

Then READ MY FUCKING POSTS instead of fucking skimming and skipping and assuming and letting your fucking bias cloud your judgement.

This is how I think.

Like "I'm conftown because this scum player didn't know something I said in a hood"

Yes!

That's not shit logic.

That's actually clearing.

That you think otherwise is a problem with YOU.

Not with me.

(As for the rest I've already addressed it in prior posts so if you wanna keep revomiting the argument read my fucking posts.)

Indeed, and yet when I called it disingenuous Mastina threw the "no u" at me

Because it

is

disingenuous as fuck, that's why I'm so fucking pissed at Pooky.

YOU arguing that I'm making shit up is you playing to the scum wincon.

POOKY arguing it is him being a fucking assclown because he's town and he should fucking know better.

Pooky backing you up doesn't make the point be any less disingenuous-as-fuck.
It makes Pooky just be a fuck and you a scumfuck.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, no matter how much you desire otherwise.

[mastina]

OH btw we also need to be aware of the possibility of tailor-type roles now that we have revives. Its best to not rely on that mechanic too much and just solve the game without considering it exists and allow town to naturally decide if they want revive or not on someone.

^Part of why I'm not going to let myself die when we could fucking win the game today by eliminating scum, which is probably just jjh.

Your claim and your night actions can be ignored in their entirety because they don't conftown you

Except they do.

My role can

literally not be a scum role

. I'm town, it's literally required.

Roden even

said

as much after asking about my role and me giving the specifics.

The way I handled my night actions is also something I'm incapable of doing as scum, too.

The neighbourhoods actions are fine

And thus should clear me.

whereas no aspect of your claim does

My claim clears me because a mafiate converting to a werewolf doesn't fit, the flavor of my picks and my role doesn't fit with a mafiate converting to a werewolf, and my picks and the flavor and the role have the

prerequisite of me being town

. Literally, the wording requires it of me to be town. My role is literally, "If I post, I'm town". That's why I have to fucking say I'm town in every post; if I don't say I'm town, I stop being town. That wouldn't happen if I was never town to begin with because me posting is

tied to a town alignment

per the flavor. (I feel the need to reiterate this to the listmods that I'm talking about my submissions here and this is not a statement applicable outside of this game.)

More than that, my usage of it does.

Especially if I was given the time to paraphrase my neighborhood posting, you'd see that I literally

said

after the Dwlee-fell-for-it, "Boy oh boy I never thought that I would love a troll role as much as in this game, and as per the usual, leave it to a town mastina to turn what was meant to be a troll role into a role that is gamebreakingly strong.

Dunn/Roden still has some form of wackiness in it, but neither is scum with Dwlee; I am not scum with Dwlee, and Frozen Angel is not scum with Dwlee."

That's something I fucking said after Dwlee got got. That's not something I think about as scum,

especially

given I was phoneposting at the time.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, so bloody eliminate jjh for his shitpush next.

[mastina]

I'm town.

I don't recall that happening. What actually happened was a vote fairly quickly afterwards and the day ending.

Oh, sure--but that wasn't my doing or Dwlee's doing, now, was it?

It doesn't matter what

actually

happened;
What matters

for the Dwlee clearing the sneak Neighborhod point

was the

intent

and

theory

behind what was

intended

to happen.

If LLD had not hammered, then everything I said was true. If Dwlee left their self-vote on while it'd deny us one member on the wagon, it'd allow for the entire rest of the wagon to be what the town chose it to be. Since Dwlee couldn't cast a hammer vote while already self-voting, that meant the only way for the day to end was if the town chose to let the day end and have a wagon composition they were satisfied with.

In other words, Dwlee casting the self-vote without it being an actual hammer was incredibly pro-town because it would let the town choose the other five names on the wagon freely.

LLD did hammer though, so presumably to LLD she was town that let the day end satisfied with the wagon composition. Since LLD is town, I would assume that she wouldn't have hammered otherwise.

you're justifying it very badly post-hoc.

That's

you

, by ignoring how LLD's hammer vote was out of my control and not something that I had taken into account.

You're justifying something that was something that could not have been something I could have foreseen, something that I could not have controlled.

I have no sway over LLD. If anything, I have the opposite of sway over LLD. So LLD hammering after I did what I did is, regardless of my alignment: something I would never have foreseen as having happened.

And you saying "the wagon ended with that composition right then and there", while ignoring the cause of that was something I had no input on, is again: disingenuous as fuck from you.

Because I don't think anyone wanted you to be on the wagon and that would look bad for you.

Name a single time I've given a fuck about something like that; I'll wait.

I have literally never seen a multi-tasking commuter.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean that's not how the role interaction works.

A scumteam with multitasking with one of the scum having commuter, would have the commuter be able to kill;
A scumteam with a multitasking commuter would have the commuter able to kill.

Commuter is a role that explicitly cannot act when it activates.

And where does it say that? Certainly not the Normal section of guidelines I as a NRG member would use.

Normal Guidelines
A Commuter is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. If a Commuter is commuting, it is untargettable that night by any means, not even Strongman, Roleblocker or Ninja. Any role that attempts to target a commuting Commuter should be treated as though they are blocked (e.g. receive a "No Result" pm if they are investigative).

There is absolutely zero mention of the commuter themselves being unable to act, because there is nothing inherent in a commuter that makes them unable to act per Normal game mechanics. The only limiting factor on Commuter is that Commuting is an active night action--meaning that when you are commuting, you are using a night action.

IF there is no multitasking, yes, commuting is a clear.

But if there IS multitasking, commuting is absolutely not.

And again, you pretending that isn't the case is disingenuous as fuck.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, so bloody eliminate jjh for his shitpush on me.

[mastina]

I'm town.

I mean, your role is built around you being a liar.

Wrong. My

role title

and my "active" ability are themed around that, yes.

My

passive

ability is themed around

the impossibility of me being scum

.

And I feel the need to reiterate: you are trying to attack the

weakest

parts of my arguments ignoring that there are many stronger reasons that you're not addressing because

you can't

, because you fucking know that I am town.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, so bloody eliminate jjh for his shitpush on me after.

[mastina]

mastina you really can just be already a werewolf forced to say you're town.

Sure, it's fully possible I

could

be a werewolf! I'm not, and the fact that I've upheld my posting restriction will mean that when I flip, you'll have indisputable undeniable irrefutable proof that I'm town.

But while it's

possible

for me to be a werewolf (I'm not, I'm town), it's

not

possible for me to be

mafia

.

Yaknow.

The scum faction that Gypyx and Dwlee were members of and which jjh and Pooky are accusing me of being part of.

like everyone and you should know that it doesn't and this weird defensiveness about your role being only "town" is actually worrying.

FA, your namesake is accurate in that you are an angel so I don't want to insult you so please don't take this the wrong way but frankly?

You're to blame for that.

jjh was being wagoned prior to you coming in.

This is, explicitly, what I have argued is the correct move, because genuinely, the only possible players for the third mafia-scum are {Enchant, Yume, jjh}.
We were even pointing out how Yume had no source of protection N3, too! And how the vig there was weird. Making it more likely that the last scum was {Yume, jjh}.

Your (false) guilty on me literally derailed the thread into this because it gave the scum an opportunity for them to jump onto me and derail the town from wagoning jjh. The guilty on jjh might've been inaccurate itself, but it was Right for the Wrong Reasons, in that jjh is scum so the pressure on jjh there was the direction things

should

have gone.

And then you claimed a wrong guilty on me, and allowed the scum to make the game about me.

Which they are continuing to do, and I have continued to highlight why it's scum from jjh and honorary-scum from Pooky.

Yes, I understand that you thought you had a guilty--but the fact that it

wasn't

a guilty has put me on the defensive when by all rights

I shouldn't fucking need to be

.

But no fucking shit I get on the defensive when there's people piling votes on me which start off of a false guilty.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, so bloody eliminate jjh for his shitpush on me after, please.

[mastina]

I'm baffled that you could still try to argue that your fake E-1 had literally any game effect whatsoever, honestly
We've explained it enough times that it really doesn't

And I've pointed out why your explanations are shit and why it did.

Just because you

said

it didn't have an effect, doesn't mean it

didn't

.

It had a very tangible one.

It literally confirmed the entirety of the Sneak Hood to not be scum with Dwlee.

Part of the reason you're so clearly scum here to me is that I actually respect your ability to parse logic to the point where I can't believe you would still, at this point, genuinely be making the argument that you conftowned your entire hood with that

And the reason YOU are scum is that YOU have a

very good ability

to parse

mastina-logic

. You are one of the

go-to translators

for mastina-logic into normal-logic. YOU can see more or less what I am thinking, and translate it from unusual-mastina-wording into more standard grounded points.

You are good at figuring out what I am saying, why I am saying it, why I believe it, and analyzing it, pointing out the merits behind it and the flaws behind it, and then translating that into useful takes from it.

But that's absent here because instead of an attempt to understand it and translate it, you are reverse-engineering it. You are coming from the perspective of it being scum and not making sense; you are coming from the perspective of it being false, not putting the effort into reading why I would, as town, believe it. Something you as town SHOULD have the ability to do.

I refuse to believe a town-jjh is so incompetent at translating me this game that he cannot see how a town-mastina would think she had an "a-HA! Gotcha!!!" moment on Dwlee.

That doesn't even mean that the moment need be valid! You can disagree with it being valid! A town-jjh can see mastina-logic and then disagree with it being accurate.

A town-jjh would NOT be unable to see it altogether though and you saying you can't is

literally a scumclaim from you

.

[mastina]

I'm town, yes, so bloody eliminate jjh for his shitpush on me after, please, thx.

[mastina]

Okay, if you want to pretend you have persuasive reasons I haven't countered, name your single strongest reason right now

It's literally 4 am and I'm town.

I literally was meant to be streaming; I have given up on discord interactions I was meant to be having and on streaming and on doing gaming and on doing art and on drinking coffee and am literally paying for it with a sore throat already that's getting worse from my inaction; my poor cats have been begging for food from me for hours and I've been so focused on this game that I've been in an incredibly bad posture for literally hours and haven't brought up a blanket because it's COLD right now.

As an aside, I originally intended for today to mostly be a conclusion of my previous efforts yesterday. Before things got started, that was going to be me compiling a list of all the claims/XP/etc. in one post. That's why my claim has the formatting it does, it was me taking a modified version of

that very post

that I was working on.

And then when the false-mastina-guilty happened, that changed into me wanting to paraphrase all of my posts in the sneak neighborhood--something I

still have a tab open for

because I started it but haven't finished it and given all of the above probably won't.

Everything I have said has been a distracted ADHD-laden mess where my thoughts have been all over the place, unorganized, random, coming as they come, because I am scatterbrained right now and not thinking clearly because my plans for today have been thrown

massively

out of whack. (I feel the need to once again reiterate that scumastina is almost never this scatterbrained and yet this is a well-established trait of my towngame that is very well-known.)

What's all of that to say?

It's to say I'm quite capable of doing this--when I actually have had the time and ability to, instead of being unorgonized chaotic random thoughts, instead gather myself, review my points, summarize them in more digestible format, simplify them, etc.

Something I cannot do tonight--and which if you were town you would know a town-mastina could not do tonight.

JJH was getting wagoned cause roden recieved no result which got explained instantly. why on earth would you want to blame my result on your slot for that shit wagon getting dissolved?

Because it wasn't a shit wagon. "Right for the Wrong Reasons" still applies. jjh is still scum even without a guilty there.

If you have a scum read on JJH properly case him.

Okay so "properly" has not been done before but I told you on D2 that I could highlight the posts of jjh that felt "off" in what he was doing, where he was focusing, who he was pushing, how he was pushing, etc. I still can, but that requires time.

Beyond that, I've also throughout this extended conversation

not

been exclusively defending myself. I know that's what you saw in my posting, but if you read my posts again, you'll see that they contain plenty of reasoning for why this is not jjh's towngame.

[mastina]

I'm town, mentally calmed and now focused, so can play again now. Writing calmed text now.

[mastina]

Alright, so I'm town, and on Saturday,

Spoiler: I had this to say privately

I'm town and I'm having a mental health crisis.
Last night, I made a meme image out of it to downplay it.

But that image was not specific to mafiascum.

When I get a chance I will be making another meme to post inthread that will describe it better, being the two-panel chill-then-mouth-agape (of "oh...") format more or less saying,

PANEL ONE:
"I see a lot of people I know say they took breaks from / deleted social media in order to improve their mental health, but while I understand how it could happen to someone else, I don't really understand it, because it's just so foreign to me. After all, nothing could cause a mental health crisis for me."

PANEL TWO:
Upon the realization that I am having a mental health crisis so bad that I want to stop existing that is 90% caused by being the towniest I've ever been in a game, have done significant work to solve the game, and the game should be on lock, only to be heavily scumread by players who SHOULD know better especially since it IS the towniest I've ever been and is my towngame to a T and has absolutely zero resemblance to my scumgame, and the town is complacent and very likely going to throw, especially since the only other wagon is on one of my scumreads: "Oh."

Suffice to say, I'm town, but not in a good headspace right now.

I appreciate what you're doing for me, FA, and I'm hoping that Titus coming in will help since I genuinely think that the only possible scum are {Enchant, Yume, jjh}.

But if Titus after she posts doesn't see that I am town, I'm probably just...gonna give up.

The mental crisis has passed, tho I'm tempted to make the image anyway (ironically, the mental crisis made it hard to make the image so by the time I could make the image, I no longer had the crisis of the image.)

But let me quickly reiterate:
This is the towniest I have ever been in a game.

Pooky is delusional, and jjh scum, respectively, for their inability to see that.

To break down why I am town, there's multiple facets to it.

1:

I have

NEVER

had an emotional meltdown as scum before.

This is, of course, not a trust tell; emotional meltdowns are not something I deliberately have as town and avoid having as scum. So it is fully possible that I

could

have an emotional meltdown as scum. However, I have never faked an emotional meltdown as scum nor have I had a genuine meltdown as scum before. This is not to say those things are impossible, but there is an importance in noting the importance of

probability versus theoretical possibility

.
Yes, it is

theoretically

possible

that I could have a meltdown as scum or fake a meltdown as scum.
It is not

probable

and in fact is so statistically speaking unlikely as to be

effectively

impossible.

Proof that I did in fact have a mental meltdown this game is wide-spanning. I am afraid to link to twitter, my blog (speaking of which,

jjh reads my blog when we play games together

and that he hasn't noted the correlation in blog/game things is one of the reasons he's scum), and elsewhere on the site to demonstrate that this meltdown was very much real and very much not limited to this game in spite of being directly caused by this game. I'm not sure what I am allowed to say and allowed to link to in terms of demonstrating that it was there and it was real, but suffice to say, across everywhere online (including discord), it showed. The last half week or so I have been in the worst mental state I've been in for 12 years, and this game is directly responsible for 90% of that (the other 10% mostly being effectively stood up by my psychiatrist).

However, while I can't safely show those out-of-game examples of the meltdown, I can safely point to the in-game posts that are complete and total emotional meltdowns that may in spite of me trying to show the utmost of restraint in my emotional crisis, still end up getting me banned after the fact. (What you saw in this game was me

holding back

from much much worse. To give you an idea of what you

didn't

see but would've if I had lost my restraint, do you know how many posts of mine I almost wrote the ableist R-word? Yes, REALLY. I was so bad off that literally every post directed towards Pooky almost called Pooky the ablist R-word. Along with holding back from repeated "go fuck yourself"s and "fuck off"s and "You're a fucking moron"s and the like. So take that into account; those are examples of what I

almost

said but held back from saying because of fear of the banhammer which I may still receive because of not showing

enough

restraint. It could've been much, much worse but it is still not great.)

Spoiler: Ingame Examples of My Meltdown

You are an ASSHAAT
OPF A FUCKING CLOWN.

So go FUICKING OWN THAT YH)OUIRARTE SUIT AT REEADING ME AFTER I FUICKING FLIP EXACTLY WHAT I AID I WOULD.
AND YIOU FUCKING OWE ME FOR YOUR FUCKING GBULLSHIT RIGHT NOW SO FUCKIGUIOWN UP TO IT RIGHT HERE AND NOW AND ASY THAT WHEN I FLCUKIGN FLIP TOWN THAT YOU ARE FUCKIGN SHIT AT R RESAFING ME AND YOU FORFEIT ALL RIGHTS TO REAFING ME IN THE FUTURE.
Because therer is ZERO reason for you to think I am scum here except you being SO FUCKING OFF.

I literally EXPLAINED MY FULL REASONING but you fucking skipped it because lol mastina wallpost so go fucking read.

saying it isn't doesn't make it not valid it just makes you a fucking asshole.
Then READ MY FUCKING POSTS instead of fucking skimming and skipping and assuming and letting your fucking bias cloud your judgement.
That you think otherwise is a problem with YOU.
(As for the rest I've already addressed it in prior posts so if you wanna keep revomiting the argument read my fucking posts.)

POOKY arguing it is him being a fucking assclown because he's town and he should fucking know better.

Pooky backing you up doesn't make the point be any less disingenuous-as-fuck.
It makes Pooky just be a fuck and you a scumfuck.

There are more things than the above, but I left them out because the other things could, feasibly, be within the realms of a scumastina. The things I didn't include could feasibly be scumastina rage or even (pseudo-)fake rage.

The spoilered parts? No, those are well beyond the capability of scumastina to fake-rage.

If you want some instances to prove this, This game was one of the first instances of a town meltdown from me. It was present the whole time I was scumread but really started to get worse from there. You can see it get worse and then MUCH worse and continues throughout the day to progressively descend. I got more emotional as the push continued, and the proof became more obvious. You can see me get progressively worse. The more I was pushed, the more I got worse. Culminating in this.

"Okay but that was one towngame years ago." (One which I would say incidentally has a hilarious number of overlaps with this game by the way up to and including it coming at a time I had high scumplay ability.)

Well how about this game around this point? I don't have any scumgame with a post like that but the similarity to this game should be self-evident.

One far more famous meltdown would be Present in this game and you can see I get worse as the push continues and then you will find a VERY familiar type of post here which continues into VERY familiar posting here, which culminated in something all too familiar. Noteworthy?

jjh was in this game and is intimately familiar with the pattern displayed being a town-mastina

.

Leading up to the example directly below was prior to a ban, a game that gave me a warning.

And the best example of my emotional breakdown as town? That would be the game that

I actually got

banned

for

. (Notably,

jjh was also in this game and is intimately familiar with a town-mastina having an emotional breakdown

.)

Perhaps the most recent example was Triplicate after I thought the town had lost a game from mislimming me. The sheer undiluted pure rage there was genuine.

Contrast; how do I act when scum? This is about as close to rage as you get from scumastina.

Yes, I make posts like this as scum, but that post is nothing like my posts this game. Look at my rants that game, and you may note that my hostility is for things

not tied to my alignment

. Every emotional post I made was about NAI things.

Even in my most recently completed scumgame

, the closest you get to rage is posts like this, which are ranting about role-related things. But there's a calmness to it. I never show true anger.

tl;dr:

I have a strong track record of having emotional breakdowns as town and

zero

record of an emotional breakdown as scum.

2:

I have

NEVER

treated scumbuddies the way I have treated Gypyx/Dwlee this game.

This one, I can also verify if you wish for me to track it down, but to show you the ingame posts I mean for this:

Dunnstral
Roden
jjh927

Titus

Reinhardt

Frozen Angel
Lady Lambdadelta
Shiro

Gypyx
Enchant

Yume
PookyTheMagicalBear

Locktown town

lean town

null lean scum scum </3

Reinhardt, the Dwlee slot, was in "lean town". I am like 85% sure that I've never listed a scumbuddy in that tier before--scumbuddies have always been fairly strong town, null, or south of null. I can pull up past readslists of scumastina for proof of this to show off. Now, obviously, scumastina does change her scumgame off so there's always a first game and inevitably there will be a scumgame where I

do

put a scumbuddy there, because scumastina tends to place scumbuddies either where she finds it most natural to place them, or where she believes it is most strategic to place them. (Sometimes these overlap, obv.) So this isn't really a deliberate thing, but it's a

just so happens

to be,

as of this game

, something that is true. Something that will eventually be broken, but has yet to be broken.

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

VOTE: Gypyx

Hello, because I am town, I think I missed the memo here.

Gypyx is a lean scum sure but why did we suddenly decide to put Gypyx at L-2?

I realize that asking this question will be suspect if Gypyx does end up flipping scum (but I'll manage, since I am in fact town), but, uh. Five votes manifesting out of nowhere in the span of six posts with absolutely no explanation whatsoever? I get that Gypyx looks suspect, but in a bastard game when I see five votes for a player with zero reason over the course of six posts, it makes me wonder if there's some sort of hidden mechanic that I wasn't invited to?

This is a post I've never made before as scum but

have

made as town. There is multiple layers to it. There is the self-awareness that it could later be scummy, something I'm pretty sure I've never noted before as scum--

as scum, if I think something might be scummy later, I just won't post it

.

But as town, I have the awareness to know that, lacking the information of scum, something I say may in hindsight come across as suspect, but will say it anyway because I feel it is important enough to say.

More than that,

I have never made this type of defense of a scumbuddy before

. The closest I have ever gotten was this post:

The thing about ircher is that I hate multiquote when it's responding to more than one person. My eyes just glaze over. And it's difficult to quote snip. I've read through his two wall multi-quotes though and they're on point, just not a lot of depth. But that's pot and kettle.

While I feel like Ircher is scum, I am honor-bound to defend him on this point in spite of how it'd potentially weaken my standing in terms of pushing Ircher as scum, in that Ircher doing the multiquote with things that are on-point is actually his town meta.

It's just that him not having depth is still him being scum since the difference between town and scum is that town quotestripes and is onpoint with depth and Ircher as scum occasionally (but does not as consistently) quotestripes onpoint but lacks depth.

In this post, you can see me defend my scumbuddy Ircher, while still pushing him--my vote was on Ircher at the time.

In contrast, my vote was

not

on Gypyx at the time. The defense is totally different, too. My defense of Ircher was me making it deliberately as weak as possible--

I was afraid that defending Ircher against an invalid point would be seen as suspicious later

. So I deliberately made my defense as light as possible, 'technicalities', "devil's advocate", etc. I was deliberately making my defense, try to not be seen as a defense after Ircher flipped scum.

Whereas my defense of Gypyx was basically a total opposite.

On Ircher I made the defense look as much like it wasn't a defense as possible; on Gypyx, the attack aspect was as weak as possible and the defense was the main part.

Yet that sort of in-between posting just doesn't exist in my scumgame.

I have

always

placed my scumbuddies in {strong town, null, south of null}, rather than more ambivalent

.

(That said,

Intent to hammer Gypyx

if there's one more vote there. I absolutely will cast a vote on Gypyx with so much as one more vote there, because ultimately, while I am town here, I feel like Gypyx has a high enough chance to flip scum that I'm not too concerned about some sort of shenanigans in the votes piled on especially given I townread 4/5 of the names involved.)

This post was intended to be a part of the prior post but I forgot to include it in the prior post. This post was directly role-related, in me trying to set up for a fake-hammer on Gypyx.

I have never tried to set up a scumbuddy with a faked gambit

(more on that below tho).

More than that?

I have never shown this hesitance to vote a scumbuddy

.
Now, I have shown hesitance to vote

town

players before.
Repeatedly.
Like, a TON of hesitation.

That hesitation is nonexistent for voting scum from scumastina.

Gypyx
Enchant

Yume
PookyTheMagicalBear

lean scum scum </3
VOTE: Gypyx

Unvote: Gypyx

This is demonstrably the opposite of scumastina's vote strategy. scumastina will state a strong scumread on a scumbuddy, then vote for a lesser scumread, when the lesser scumread happens to be town. Here is a prominent example of this in action; my strongest scumread

the entire game

was Cephrir, but tellingly, instead of voting my strongest scumread who was my scumbuddy, I voted a lesser scumread who was town.

In this game, I had a stronger scumread who was town and a weaker scumread that was scum. I kept the vote on the weaker scumread, but if I were scum then Gypyx and Pooky would've been swapped in my readslist.

3:

I have

NEVER

pushed a town player the way I pushed Pooky as scum.

This one is also easily verifiable with research if you wish me to track it down, but again, to show you some ingame proof:

I will participate

Scum. </3

I am a one shot miller cuz i got a free mage perk
go me

It saddens my town heart that Pooky is scum here. </3

Dunnstral
Roden
jjh927

Titus

Reinhardt

Frozen Angel
Lady Lambdadelta
Shiro

Gypyx
Enchant

Yume

PookyTheMagicalBear

Locktown town lean town null lean scum

scum </3

I have never made any post remotely like this as scum. When I have been scum before and I say that a player is 'scum', the player in question has always been a player that was either my scumbuddy, or when the player was town, a player on the weaker end of the play spectrum.

I don't post "</3" to a player I am scumreading as scum* because "</3" is a thought I have when a player that I like and love to play with, is a player that I suspect to be scum. It's not an easy term to search, but I'm pretty sure that if you could figure out a way to search for "</3" in my post history,

literally every result would be a towngame

. Of course, this is something that I am just now thinking of so in future games I as scum if I can have foresight will need to fake it to break the tell, but

up until this moment

, I was genuinely unaware. Meaning that this was a genuine example of, up until this game, a towntell of mine (that I just wasn't aware of until now).

*(this is not good wording as this wording would be ban-worthy but I'm not sure the right wording to use, it's not that I don't, so much as it just isn't something that would occur to a scumastina but I'm not sure how to explain this right now, it's not a trust tell but I don't have the wording to describe why it's not a trust tell but town-mastina thinks in a certain way that scumastina just doesn't)

This post leading up to my swap to a Pooky vote is something I have never done before as scum. In the rare instances where I have had a "strong scumread" on a strong town player, I transitioned

out of

the scumread on them--not

into

the scumread. scumastina when scumreading strong town will use it as a tool to demonstrate faked read progression on the player and eventually swap them to town; a town mastina instead scumreads who she scumreads, and will push them regardless of who they are.

You can see how I strongly pushed Pooky here, and genuinely was thinking he was scum. I can get references of me doing this as town; every instance of me doing this as scum comes from the lategame when it is a necessity to clutch the win.

You can see it continue in my push of jjh.

I have

never

pushed jjh as scum

, but notably,

I have pushed jjh as town before

.

I also break this down in this post, but to give the

Spoiler: Relevant Part

My reads this game are reads that I have never given before as scum--the very fact that I had a scumread on you, Pooky, and

acted on it

is proof of that. Ditto for me having a scumread on jjh since D2.

Name once that scumastina has, to a NOTABLE SCUMMER, had them as a strong scumread and

followed through with a strong push on them

.

I sure can't think of any times because scumastina avoids antagonizing strong notable scummers. scumastina would never antagonize, say, LLD on D1 because of sheer

fear

that doing so would backfire.

But a town-mastina has made her beliefs frustratingly clear, as LLD can attest to. I literally got LLD tilted from

successfully pushing a D1 mislim on her

when we were both town, but I scumread her. Because when I am town, I don't care how notable the scummer is, how strong a player they are--if I think they are scum,

I will push them as scum

.

4:

I have (almost)

NEVER

actively pursued being on a town elimination and off of a scum elimination.

This one is quite simple for why. As scum, being on a town mislim looks bad; being

off

of a town mislim looks good. When at all possible, that means that I can avoid being on the town wagon at the end of day.
Now, this doesn't mean I will be voting scum; I can vote one town while the town eliminates a different town.
But when at all possible, I avoid being on town mislims because I

know

people will see "on town wagon, is suspect", and to players off the wagon think "off the town wagon, looks more town".

And the inverse also applies. When a scum player is being eliminated, it is usually better to be on it. I explain this here:

Spoiler: Relevant Explanation

It's non-committal; you still kept the scum in the pool because you couldn't argue against the consensus, but you have only voted scum

when you can gain a better position from it

.

This is probably the worst bus vote of all time

These things do not go together. I realize you're not Pooky but the point remains;
I inherently fundamentally cannot gain a "better position" from what, as Pooky describes, is "the worst bus vote of all time".

My vote on Gypyx and lack of vote on Dwlee are the

opposite

of getting a better position.

I literally lost out on XP from not being on the Dwlee wagon yesterday.

I literally joined at the worst possible time in the worst possible way on the Gypyx wagon both on D1 and on D2.

5:

My scumplay tends to treat scumbuddies the same way, but my treatment of Gypyx and Dwlee was visibly and obviously different.

Notably, I was off the Dwlee wagon but on the Gypyx wagon after a while. But it even shows in my readslists.

Dunnstral
Roden
jjh927

Titus

Reinhardt

Frozen Angel
Lady Lambdadelta
Shiro

Gypyx

Enchant

Yume
PookyTheMagicalBear

Locktown town

lean town

null

lean scum

scum </3

I talk about this more in this post, where I word it a different way.

Spoiler: Relevant Section

The way I treated Gypyx/Dwlee is provably and demonstrably a way that I've

never

treated scumbuddies in the past

ever

because there literally is only two ways scumastina treats scumbuddies:
Either I try to defend the scumbuddies by not voting them...
...Or I try to be the sacrificial lamb and bus them with the intent of my death conftowning them.

Every scumgame of mine follows that basic pattern because it is quite simply: the most optimal way to play scum.

If you're going to defend scum, you need to

defend

scum. Defending scum without defending scum is stupidly obvious and everyone looks for it as being from scum. (Whereas if you hard-defend scum, people tend to think wrong-town instead.)
If you're going to bus scum, you need to

bus

scum. That means actively scumreading, pushing, and voting them. Bussing scum by hopping onto the wagon when momentum shifts that way is stupidly obvious and everyone looks for it as being what scum bussing do.

Like, literally. Every time I look for bussing, I look for the players who do precisely that. I look not for the players who hard-pushed or hard-defended. I look for the players who hedged their bets, because statistically speaking, that's where scum tend to be.

I realize that, yes, scumastina has invented new scum strategies this year. I realize that, yes, scumastina always evolves her play. I realize that, yes, scumastina needs to not fall into trust tells so playing to her win condition involves breaking established towntells whenever is possible.

So I realize that it is

possible

for this to be the first scumgame I've had where I would do that.

Possible

--not probable.

Because the most probable is that my scumplay uses the same tactics that I know have worked for literally years. Literally both my scum wins this year were not reinventing the wheel; they were just a return to form of the old scumastina formula that worked for years upon years prior to that. And both fell into one of the two archetypes above. In subreddit uPick, I hard-defended both scumbuddies for as long as I could and tried to save them for as long as I possibly could. In CONTROL, I hard-bussed

my entire scumteam

because I wanted to prop my scumbuddies up in the case that I went down early. (As it so happened, it ended up that I was propped up instead, but that's the thing about hard-bussing; it works regardless of which scum is the survivor in having the intended effect of propping the other up.)

The treatment of Gypyx and Dwlee do not match my scumplay at all.

scumastina tends to EITHER: hard-bus her scumteam, OR: hard-defend her scumteam, with virtually no in-between

. (With a fair number of nulls thrown in for good measure, but always having one of the two dominant overall.)

6:

scumastina

never

sheeps group momentum/consensus/etc.; town mastina very frequently

does

.

scumastina knows that "being stubborn" and going against the grain frequently gets townreads. She also knows that sheeping reads tends to mean that you get no credit for being on a scum elimination and you look hella suspicious for being on a town elimination. As a result, she avoids like the plague sheeping the town, because she knows she will be seen as suspect for sheeping.

As a result, scumastina has a very strong tendency to have reads which do not match with the reads of the town.

In contrast, a town-mastina has three axes of scumhunting. Generic tells, meta tells, and group consensus. A town-mastina can, and is, influenced by group consensus in her reads. My reads on all of Gypyx, Pooky, and Dwlee were directly influenced by the reads of others on those slots.

The fact that I was "sheeping" is proof that I am town.

7:

I have (almost)

NEVER

"OMGUS"'d as scum.

By this, I mean, "if you were town, you would know that I am town".
That simple.

I'm pretty sure with like 90% certainty that I have never said that, or anything resembling that, as scum before because it is not a thought that would occur to a scumastina. After all, scumastina knows that she is scum, so she knows that players scumreading her are scumreading her legitimately. She may get frustrated that a town player is not townreading her, but she will not go "this player is not townreading me, therefore, they must be scum".

In contrast, this is a signature part of my towngame. In every game I am scumread when I am town, I will almost always have a scumread on at least one of the people who are not townreading me, if they are a player who has played with me before.

If a player is intimately familiar with my play as both alignments but especially my towngame, then they

should

be able to tell that I am town and the absence of that is scum-indicative.

And on that note?

jjh is scum for precisely this reason

.

jjh has seen my scumgame and should know that even my scumgame is nothing like what I have displayed in this game;
jjh has seen my towngame countless times and should know I am tripping towntells that I haven't tripped as scum ever before.

8:

I have (almost)

NEVER

gambited or fake-gambited as scum.

This one is dangerously close to the updated trust tell rule, so this one I need to be careful about stating, but basically: scumastina believes that the best weapon is the truth. Gambits/Fake-Gambits are, inherently, lies. It's admittedly more of an incidental thing tho. It's not that I have a policy against gambits/fake-gambits, so much as it is,

I genuinely never think of the possibility

. Gambiting/Fake-Gambiting is just something that I never think of as scum, because it's just not something that occurs to me. Why doesn't it, heck if I know, but the way my brain is wired, I just legit never think of the idea of "this would be a good gambit to pull".

Now, when I say 'gambit'/'fake-gambit', I mean mostly "move involving falsification of information/a situation", more or less.

Every time I bus is technically a ""gambit"", and sure, I think of ""gambits"" involving play-based decisions: bussing is a ""gambit"", and using night actions in a way that can be construed as town and later truthfully claiming those actions is a ""gambit"", but when I say I haven't gambited or fake-gambited as scum before, what I mean is that I haven't made shit up as part of a gambit before, basically ever. It's

possible

, since it technically has happened before, but for whatever reason it just never occurs to me these days. I

suspect

my policy of "honesty is the best policy" plays a part in me not thinking of it, but even if I didn't have that policy, I'm not sure I would think to pull off a gambit.

In this game, I very clearly

did

pull off a gambit involving Dwlee.

Spoiler: Some Relevant Parts

Mastina, how can your 'belief' that Dwlee fell for the fake E-1 conftown YOU?

Because,
-Scumbuddies are more likely to remember the role of their scumbuddies,
-I would have very specifically told Dwlee about the gambit,
-The gambit isn't timed correctly for me as Dwlee's scumbuddy but IS timed correctly for me as town,
-I don't think of moves like this as scum but have a

very fucking long history

of thinking of these sorts of moves as town,
-I literally wouldn't be able to so much as

think

of the gambit in the first place as scum because scumastina has a philosophy of KISS, keeping plans simple and not inventing extra steps to them.

Like, you're saying that your belief in a thing makes it more likely that it conftowns you when that makes no sense as you're lying if you're scum.

Yeah and among my many scum skills, faking conviction is

not

among them. My strength as a scum player comes from genuine conviction in what I am saying to be true, or true enough.

So when it comes to the conviction involved, it's not whether it's real or not because it's

always

real.

It's more to do with how likely that conviction is to come from town vs how likely that conviction is to come from scum.

My belief that Dwlee hard-conftown'd four players is not conviction that comes from scum because scumastina doesn't think to conftown three players with herself as a fourth.

in fact there's no way in hell mastina!scum could say to dwlee!scum hey im going to fake l-1 you so you can fake hammer yourself

As a matter of fact?

In fact there is no way in hell scumastina could say that because that's not how scumastina thinks.

Why would scum actually want Dwlee to 'not realise' it was a fake hammer?

Scum

would

want Dwlee to realize it was a fake hammer, that's my point precisely for why Dwlee not realizing it wasn't a real hammer makes all the members of the sneak neighborhood conftown.

He was already guiltied scum and it's actually +scum to have him on the wagon since it denies town exp

Only if someone hammers after Dwlee L-1s themselves.

If Dwlee left their self-vote on, guess what?

While that denies us one member on the wagon, it allows for the entire rest of the wagon to be what the town chooses it to be. Since Dwlee couldn't cast a hammer vote while already self-voting, that means the only way for the day to end was if the town chose to let the day end and have a wagon composition they were satisfied with.

In other words, Dwlee casting the self-vote without it being an actual hammer was incredibly pro-town because it would let the town choose the other five names on the wagon freely.

Why would scum!me not have got on the Dwlee wagon well before your E-1 and just got Dwlee to hammer?

Why would scumastina not have cast a

real

Dwlee vote and just got Dwlee to hammer?

her argument about dwlee conftowning her like YOU CAN GET YOUR SCUMBUDDY TO CONFTOWN YOU IN THREAD IS A FUCKING JOKE AND I CANT BELIEVE ANYONE COULD TAKE IT SERIOUSLY FOR EVEN TWO SECONDS.

This is me. My logic. I'm town but my logic is still there and valid.

its such a level of absurdity that I don't understand how a rational human being could possibly believe it.

This is how I think.

Like "I'm conftown because this scum player didn't know something I said in a hood"

Yes!

That's not shit logic.

That's actually clearing.

That you think otherwise is a problem with YOU.

Not with me.

Indeed, and yet when I called it disingenuous Mastina threw the "no u" at me

Because it

is

disingenuous as fuck.
Pooky backing you up doesn't make the point be any less disingenuous-as-fuck.

I don't recall that happening. What actually happened was a vote fairly quickly afterwards and the day ending.

Oh, sure--but that wasn't my doing or Dwlee's doing, now, was it?

It doesn't matter what

actually

happened;
What matters

for the Dwlee clearing the sneak Neighborhod point

was the

intent

and

theory

behind what was

intended

to happen.

If LLD had not hammered, then everything I said was true. If Dwlee left their self-vote on while it'd deny us one member on the wagon, it'd allow for the entire rest of the wagon to be what the town chose it to be. Since Dwlee couldn't cast a hammer vote while already self-voting, that meant the only way for the day to end was if the town chose to let the day end and have a wagon composition they were satisfied with.

In other words, Dwlee casting the self-vote without it being an actual hammer was incredibly pro-town because it would let the town choose the other five names on the wagon freely.

LLD did hammer though, so presumably to LLD she was town that let the day end satisfied with the wagon composition. Since LLD is town, I would assume that she wouldn't have hammered otherwise.

you're justifying it very badly post-hoc.

That's

you

, by ignoring how LLD's hammer vote was out of my control and not something that I had taken into account.

You're justifying something that was something that could not have been something I could have foreseen, something that I could not have controlled.

I have no sway over LLD. If anything, I have the opposite of sway over LLD. So LLD hammering after I did what I did is, regardless of my alignment: something I would never have foreseen as having happened.

And you saying "the wagon ended with that composition right then and there", while ignoring the cause of that was something I had no input on, is again: disingenuous as fuck from you.

Because I don't think anyone wanted you to be on the wagon and that would look bad for you.

Name a single time I've given a fuck about something like that; I'll wait.

I'm baffled that you could still try to argue that your fake E-1 had literally any game effect whatsoever, honestly
We've explained it enough times that it really doesn't

And I've pointed out why your explanations are shit and why it did.

Just because you

said

it didn't have an effect, doesn't mean it

didn't

.

It had a very tangible one.

It literally confirmed the entirety of the Sneak Hood to not be scum with Dwlee.

Part of the reason you're so clearly scum here to me is that I actually respect your ability to parse logic to the point where I can't believe you would still, at this point, genuinely be making the argument that you conftowned your entire hood with that

And the reason YOU are scum is that YOU have a

very good ability

to parse

mastina-logic

. You are one of the

go-to translators

for mastina-logic into normal-logic. YOU can see more or less what I am thinking, and translate it from unusual-mastina-wording into more standard grounded points.

You are good at figuring out what I am saying, why I am saying it, why I believe it, and analyzing it, pointing out the merits behind it and the flaws behind it, and then translating that into useful takes from it.

But that's absent here because instead of an attempt to understand it and translate it, you are reverse-engineering it. You are coming from the perspective of it being scum and not making sense; you are coming from the perspective of it being false, not putting the effort into reading why I would, as town, believe it. Something you as town SHOULD have the ability to do.

I refuse to believe a town-jjh is so incompetent at translating me this game that he cannot see how a town-mastina would think she had an "a-HA! Gotcha!!!" moment on Dwlee.

That doesn't even mean that the moment need be valid! You can disagree with it being valid! A town-jjh can see mastina-logic and then disagree with it being accurate.

A town-jjh would NOT be unable to see it altogether though and you saying you can't is

literally a scumclaim from you

.

It doesn't matter if you think the gambit was real;
It doesn't matter if you think the gambit was good;
It doesn't matter if you think the gambit did nothing;
What matters is

that

there WAS a gambit

in the

first

place

.

You can argue that the gambit was never going to work; you can argue that the gambit was shit; you can argue that the gambit was illogical and clearly no town player could genuinely think it resulted in something (although I'm town and I very much do think so), but you cannot argue the gambit didn't exist, and the existence of the gambit is proof that I am town.

9:

There Was No Successful Scum Nightkill N2 (and for that matter, probably not N3*).

*Unless scum killed Dunnstral, which is a move I would not make mind you, the scum kill is absent for both nights. If the scum burned through a player's bulletproof vest on N2, then said player would be vulnerable N3, and yet no scum death that we know of occurred. That, aside from the fact that I had a vig and vig + scumkill is enough to bypass a bulletproof since a bulletproof protects from

one

kill and vig + scum nightkill is

two

.

There was no deaths N2.
The thing about that though, is I had a Vig night action.
I had a Vig which I, provably, used.

Frozen Angel has confirmed that I attempted a nightkill in this game.

Given that Dwlee committed the N1 murder of LLD,

I could not have killed N1 as scum.

Given that I could not have committed the N1 murder, but I am confirmed to have attempted a kill in the game,

It is confirmed that I attempted a kill either N2 or N3.

But nobody died.

If I were scum, there would have been a successful kill performed.

But there wasn't, and you know why?

There is a 95+% chance that Dwlee committed the N2 nightkill and was roleblocked by Dunnstral.

Why?
Well, the scumteam was setting up for Dwlee to be eliminated on D3. Occam's razor, what makes more sense? That the last scum risked exposing themselves by performing a nightkill, which mysteriously did not work in spite of them having one neighborhood's worth of full information on protective purchases/actions/etc....

...Or that the scumteam sent Dwlee to kill, knowing that Dwlee was going down anyway so they might as well perform the kill? And that it failed due to the rolestop.

This is also supported by the fact that

if

Dunnstral were the N3 scum nightkill, it'd likely be as a direct result of Dunnstral having been crucial in being a part of the Dwlee elimination. So why would the scum eliminate Dunnstral if Dunnstral's roleblock did not hinder the scum and had nothing to do with Dwlee's elimination?

But critically,

I knew about Dunnstral's rolestop of Dwlee in advance.

And thus, I could not be scum with Dwlee who allowed Dwlee to make a kill I knew would fail.

10:

I was crucial in being responsible for the cop guilty in the first place.

I upgraded Frozen Angel, the source of the guilty on Dwlee. She got that guilty

because I upgraded her role

.
Now, obviously, I wouldn't know FA would upgrade into a cop role, but as scum this was still incredibly risky to do because upgrading FA could cause any number of bad things for the scum, in exchange for...what, cheap towncred??? What's the scum motivation for upgrading FA? Hoping that her townflip makes me look more town? Hoping that my scumflip makes her look more scum? The motivation is an incredible stretch and violates risk-reward analysis.

Because the least-risky and highest-reward thing to do would be to engineer upgrade either myself or my scumbuddy (Dwlee in this case).

Related to this:

11:

My role actions never come from scum.

On N1, I bodyguarded Lady Lambdadelta. This is something I would never do as scum, since the wording on the bodyguard role PM made it possible that a strongman kill would be redirected onto the bodyguard. Beyond that, using my bodyguard on LLD when the scumteam has a strongman inherently gives away the existence of the strongman

and

makes my claim be less believable. As scum I had multiple players I could have claimed to protect. Any of my hoodmates, jjh, Titus, or Shiro, all were people scumastina could claim to have bodyguarded.

On N2, I shot Yume. This is something I

could

do as scum, but the far more likely course of action would be to shoot a displayed scumread (Yume was one) that

I thought was a big threat

--jjh, in this case. Yes, that'd have resulted in the shot being wasted just like it apparently was anyway since jjh was apparently immune anyway, but the fact still stands that as scum, my vig wasn't something I would be inclined to use on Yume, but instead would go on {Shiro, Enchant, jjh} especially the latter two because those were the possible candidates I could get away with shooting that would be the most beneficial to me.

On N3, I bodyguarded Titus. This is something I

could

do as scum, but for the reasons I laid out in the neighborhood PT, LLD was the far better protection for a scumastina to make last night, as it'd leave Titus wide open to attack. LLD's death wouldn't be as bad for the town as Titus's death, so bullshitting a protection justification on LLD ("she died N1, she probably will be the target N3") while killing Titus would be the optimal play.

I also attempted to coordinate protections with Dunnstral. (Dunn did not cooperate there, which again btw is a reason I wouldn't kill him for what it's worth.) While this has a scum motivation in trying to figure out who Dunn will protect, the town motivation is also laid out in our neighborhood PT, because I wasn't forcing it down Dunn's throat, I was asking about the options involved and laying out the pros/cons of each.

12:

My role is never a scum role.

I can quote why from my own posts, but I think FA does it better than I can, actually:

They claimed they can turn in to an evil 3p but they are town otherwise. I just said rest of their claim makes sense

Role wise, one of mastina's picks was that she never fakeclaims as scum in a game with post restrictions. Have you considered she may be unable to claim her real role?

yes. its just impractical post restriction to apply. none of us are technically allowed to claim our role just paraphrase it. Its so depends on personal judgement whats close enough to be failing such post restrictions

in additioneven then I believe what she claimed has some sort of truth in it (and we saw some sort of truth in it with her vote for example and we know her post restriction) so it cant be a completely fake claim. so we can conclude that she is not restricted from claiming her role. ofc she is restricted from scum claiming if she is scum that's against her wincon

Mastina is certainly not scum by role claim and that role can legit exist the way they described. making up that claim when we were on page 1 of game is absolutely ridiculously hard. So I believe most of their claim at least is truth and if they are scum is just minor differences - like for example they are already a werewolf who has the post restriction to say they are town etc. But lack of kills (specially in even nights that they claimed warewfol can) just suggests if they are a serial killer, they been behaving?

so yeah role wise it still makes no sense for the slot to be scum while it has a possibility still

play wise they been pushing poky and it felt genuine, their reads and hunts been also genuine, like they guessed shiro was llds masonizer in day 1 and started trying to convince rest of us that shiro is town cause of it cause she felt that's what lld was crumbling. Now that would be such a random angle to pursue for a scum mastina out of nowhere to use meta and hints to make such a far fetched read that they were convinced at the time to push

stuff like that gave an early town read on the slot for me - at least I could see it having a town mindset.

I will however note this:

If I were scum I would have no reason to refuse a town player upgrading my role.

While I was not the first to point out how upgrading me might be risky, I was quick to agree, and elaborate on it, and insist on it, and reinforce it. I have rejected a role upgrade because I don't think it's a good idea to upgrade a town player who can potentially become scum, since there's too much of a risk that the upgrade

does

forcefully change my alignment.

If I were scum I would not be afraid of an alignment change.

I hate playing scum; literally any chance at a change in alignment is a chance that I will take.



Okay so these are all of the

points

that I wanted to make, but I admit that I sadly did not get to properly edit them. I didn't give tl;dr summaries of them, properly back all of them up, etc.

But I've spent ~4 hours writing this post and I

do

work tomorrow so my options are to either not post it, be late going to bed (and thus, late tomorrow), or post it as-is; I'll opt for the last and make any tl;dr summaries, additional backing, clarification, etc. as needed.

[mastina]

Participate in challenge

I'm town, but important:

Todays Challenge is: Day 5 Challenge: Every post, never repeat the same words you have used previously on the same page. A minimum of 20 words must be used. (Words on page 12 may not be used again on page 12, on page 13 you're allowed to use the words from page 12 again).

Mod: since the challenge is for literally every post, does that mean that a player participating in the challenge who has a posting restriction, does not need to follow the posting restriction today for the duration of the time they are participating in the challenge?

MOD: The wording on the challenge is a bit unclear; are you allowed to say the same word in the same post, just not in posts after that, or are you not allowed the same word on the page twice at all?

As in, if I said 'mod' twice in a single post, would it disqualify me from the challenge?

(I'll have mega-failed in my first post if so, but if that's the case, fuck this challenge anyway it literally discrimination against me. )

The reason I have for asking that should be quite obvious.

i am so surprised the person i said was town was actually town

You don't get to claim credit for a read I held literally the entirety of the game (Roden has been at the top of my townreads the entire time). You even hammered Roden without consent.

Anyway, some important stuff.

Last night, I upgraded my role. I'll be honest, I was really hoping for a "fuck you, town" role like turning into a Jester, gaining a Vengeful, or even a supersaint.

Sadly, I'm town and thus, even the ability I inherited from my upgrade was town. Specifically,

2:

You can track every login I ever make by checking my 'last visited'!

This is the flavor of my upgraded ability, and the mod took 'track' and 'last' from there quite literally.

What I mean by this, is,
The player I target, I find out who they visited the night before, but NOT the current night.

As in, if I target someone N4, I learn who they targeted N3.

Last night, I targeted Enchant, but received No Result.


Once I received the role, I asked about the interactions with a commuter.
Ginngie said that commuters cannot act while commuting, at all. I asked about multitasking and Ginngie reiterated that commuting means cannot act and thus that a commuter cannot kill while commuting. (Now, this is not how the role works in Normals, since in Normals, a multitasking commuter can in fact use other actions including the nightkill while commuting. But this is the opposite of a Normal Game, so whatever Ginngie says, goes.)

While this doesn't

clear

jjh, it does make jjh

incredibly less likely

to be scum. jjh cannot kill while commuting. Now, it's a bit hard to consistently confirm that jjh is commuting (theoretically, jjh could have a bulletproof every time any single slot would vig; theoretically, jjh can rolestop an investigative action on him, so a vig failing and an investigation failing are both easy enough to fairly consistently arrange), but while we haven't seen much in the way of scum kills and confirming that jjh is definitely commuting during a night that scum are definitely killing is difficult (the only player who ON THEIR OWN could confirm jjh was commuting was Roden and the night Roden did so, there wasn't a

confirmed

scum kill), it still

vastly

decreases the odds of jjh being scum.


Yume successfully masonized me. It's called "Yume's Masonry", Ginngie gave me a link to the mason PT, said it was a mason PT, and the OP says welcome to the masonry. Now, while Ginngie didn't say we're explicitly conftown to each other in any of those messages, I imagine that's another example of Ginngie's laziness (I don't want to call Ginngie out on this but Ginngie has in fact been fairly lazy in a lot of the roles; my vig PM was literally "works like a standard Vig"), so when it's not 10 PM when I get up at 3:30 am for work, I can go through the motions of asking the mod if we're confirmed but like. 99% should be confirmed, just need to make it official.


What that means is that none of them are scum.

Titus is the original masonizer, and cannot be scum as a consequence.
LLD is the original masonized and was nightkilled N1 and thus cannot be scum as a consequence.
Pooky flipped town and thus cannot be scum as a consequence.

Shiro was the one who revived LLD--not

impossible

to be scum, but incredibly

unlikely

to be scum.

And Frozen Angel literally guiltied scum and has been town ten times over in ten different ways so is just not scum.

Since I'm town, you know what that means?

There's genuinely only one slot who can be OG scum.

UNVOTE: Enchant

[mastina]

For the record: I was interrupted before I could make the post which would detail this, but I think that the setup was a lot less townsided than people are giving it credit for being.

The masons were not masons, which I was more or less figured out by my questions to Ginngie.

Pooky's base role could have killed a town player outright.

There were multiple powers that the town had access to which could hurt the town, including all the uses of the miller.

And the biggie: every power the town had access to, the scum had access to as well. And literally all of them were useful.

Bulletproof to shut down town vigs.
Rolestop to roleblock town actions, including vigs.
Ninja to avoid the tracker.
Doctor to nullify the vigs.

Their 1x strongman could be turned into a 3x strongman by using ability thievery on it.

They could gain access to

three

vig shots, allowing for

four

scum-controlled kills.

And they could revive scum, who if they had a bulletproof, could only be re-eliminated with the town using another elimination on them.

These are all very very very powerful tools.

That, not even going into scum upgrading themselves, and the scum being able to have more XP overall.

Everyone's treating the game as if it were like 95:5 town:scum, but as I was going to say:
For a bunch of people who have modded games theoretically balanced that ended up hard-swinging towards one direction and ended up looking X-Sided in favor of that direction...
...Y'all are kinda bad at recognizing that

that's what happened

here. The scum had a LOT of tools at their disposal, especially if they had managed to live longer than they did.

They just didn't.

And the town powers were used with a higher rate of success than they should have been, for instance both masonries being town in spite of them being neighborhoods.

Does that make the game balanced as a 10:3? Well, no. I'm not saying it wasn't

townsided

, but I AM saying it wasn't townsided

as much as you're assuming

. As a 10:3, I'd rate it at ~60-65:35-40 town:scum. Townsided, but not as egregiously so...

...Especially given that there was a chance for it to

not

be a 10:3.
I could have become a role that was not only not town, but was also explicitly antitown. It would make me act against the interests of the town, actively harming them at every stage.

Roden could have more heavily focused on the 3p win and actually obtained it, leaving the game. It would make Roden be not a member of the town and cost the town a valuable mislim. Not as actively harmful as if I had become scum, but still bad.

Given all of what the scum had,
AND,
That the game could potentially become 8:3:1 +1...

...I'd rate it a little less townsided than the above. Given the chance for optional 3ps to become 3p, it'd be closer to ~52.5-57.5:42.5-47.5 (discounting the 3ps there numberwise), which is still a

little

townsided, but not nearly as egregiously so.

The scum could have four kills go through; the scum could have three strongman kills bypassing all the protectives; the scum could have scum immune to town vigs requiring they be re-limmed; the scum could roleblock almost any action this game.

Those, in tandem with the potentially lower number of town players and the antitown players explicitly being antitown, would have given the scum much much better odds.

...It's just that everything that

could

go wrong for the scum, did, and everything which could go right for the town, did.

So I wouldn't be too harsh on Ginngie balance-wise. It wasn't perfect, it was slightly townsided especially with the town-optional-3ps not pursuing the option of 3p, but it wasn't a guaranteed town victory.

[mastina]

I think that the setup was a lot less townsided than people are giving it credit for being.

Stop

No.

I will attack a setup for being X-sided regardless of the outcome of the game, when that is true. If I win in a townsided game I will call it out; if I win in a scumsided game I will call it out; if I lose in a scumsided game I will call it out; if I lose in a townsided game I will call it out. Regardless of who won or lost the game.

When I say it was not as townsided as people are saying it is.

I mean it is not as townsided as people are saying it is because in theory, it wasn't.

Pooky killing a town player could happen.
The two town players with 3ps could have 3p'd instead of townsided.

Those alone reduce the town from 10 to 7.
A town death D1 could reduce them down to 6 (Dunnstral D1).
A town nightkill from the scum strongman could reduce them down to 5.

There was the potential for there to be

only five town alive

on

day two

--and that's

without the scum accessing a Vig

(which I think they mathematically were able to do?).

5:3:1 on

day two

would be five town to four nontown. Literally

lylo on D2

, IF the scum didn't have a successful vig. Add in a successful vig and in the worst case scenario?

The town would be in KINGMAKER on D2

. As in, it was possible for the town to effectively be in an unwinnable situation on D2, a 4:3:1 where the town doesn't have majority and needs to rely on a SK to get a scum elimination at all.

Now, that didn't happen. It was pretty much the opposite of that which happened.

But that's an example of why you don't judge how a game did play out for the theoretical balance of the game.

Was this game perfectly balanced? No, I do think it was slightly townsided.

But I will maintain that it was not absurdly townsided because in basically any world which wasn't this one, the scum have a lot more ability to play the game effectively.

[mastina]

Mastina there were literally revival abilities. Scum pretty much never win this setup if it's repeated 100 times.

Revivals which the scum could also get and which the scum could stop.

It costs 4 XP to revive a player.
It costs only 2 XP to get a rolestop to block the revive.

The scum also had access to more XP than the town, via Enchant. So they could secretly use their XP in places that the town would be (mostly) unable to track them on. After all, aside from Roden, the town would have no way to prove someone did or did not spend XP somewhere. So scum could just outright lie basically freely. Especially in a game labeled as bastard.

Now I realize this is me talking and I come from a school of honest scumplay where telling the truth is usually a great weapon. But in this game specifically, I'd actually argue that while that was a

possible

strategy, the

optimal

strategy was just lying about your XP spending. It'd be known how much you made outside of Enchant, but it wouldn't be known how you spent it outside of Roden.

[mastina]

Also, town can really snowball in this whereas scum cannot.

Um.

I literally demonstrated how scum could have effectively won the game by D2?

I'd call "game is literally 4:3:1 on D2" to be a scum snowball.

And I don't really see the argument for how a player MUST be accountable for their XP spending this game when there was a grand total of one mechanic (one player's role) that could track that. Yes, you know how much XP a player has

earned

. How do you know how they have spent it? You have only your word that they did so. What stops the scum from lying about how they've (not) used their XP? What stops the scum from buying an ability they shouldn't have due to Enchant's bonus XP accumulating? If they buy an ability they shouldn't have the XP for, how does the town know they have exceeded their XP? Roden's legit their only method to discover that from the scum.

Why can't the scum do those things? Lie and say they have more XP than they do, or lie and say they have less XP than they do? What can the town do to

force

a player to demonstrate the amount of XP they have? None of the actions which could be bought would produce a provable result that there was no failure condition for. Forced to demonstrate a vig? Target BP or bg'd or doctored or they were rolestopped. Forced to revive? Rolestopped. Forced to rolestop? Rolestopped, so the action they're blocking goes through anyway. Forced to steal a role? Fakeable but even if not, could be claimed to be rolestopped.

What ability could the town pressure the scum into forcing they can/can't buy, with it being proven that they can/can't buy it?

I don't see how the scum couldn't just lie.

[mastina]

Remove a single scum player, especially earlygame, and scum lose a huge amount in the exp side of things proportionally against town. And once there is only one scum player left, they will lose at almost any point in the game because they will never succeed in another nightkill.

I mean, yes--but this is true of any game. An early scum death reduces scum power and increases town power. That's inherent to the design of a mafia game.

That's swing.

While you can say it's more likely to swing towards town (because it is, the game

was

townsided), it's not guaranteed to swing towards the town even remotely.

How different does this game look if there's two town mislims in a row especially with the two potential 3ps going for 3p?

Two town mislims in a row is something I would say is entirely not unreasonable to have happen in a game. It didn't happen since we eliminated Gypyx on D2, but we still had players defending Gypyx on D2 so it was fully possible that Gypyx could have lived through that day. How different does the game look if Gypyx is still alive going into D3? That, in of itself, means that there's still two scum alive minimum going into N3 (possibly 3, depending on if the guilty manifested or not since the guilty on Dwlee was at least in part followthrough from the Gypyx elimination), which gives them a lot more agency.

[mastina]

Scum snowballing relies on town playing poorly, not on scum playing well. The town has to misplay to allow that to happen

I mean--again, sure, but how is that different from any other game?

Every time the town does not eliminate scum on D1, the town has misplayed. If the town didn't misplay on D1, then it'd be a scum elimination D1. But games are not balanced around the town eliminating scum on D1. Because statistically speaking, the town misplays more than they do not on D1. Statistically speaking, the town does not eliminate scum on D1 as much as they eliminate town. (Which is in part because the town has more members so there's more candidates for the elimination.)

The town eliminating scum D1 is something that will give the town a huge advantage...but this is not a bad thing.

The town eliminating scum D2 will still give the town a good advantage, but this is also not a bad thing.

It is the job of the scum to protect the scum, generally speaking, as it is the job of the town to eliminate the scum. If the scum fail at their job and the town succeeds at theirs early-on, then yeah, the town's going to gain an edge?

If your idea of scum snowballing involves town literally giving scum all of their exp then sure

That doesn't need to happen at all? Like, while *three* scum couldn't get access to a vig N1 (and admittedly they wouldn't know it was a vig but if they invested there they'd find out), *one* could, entirely without the town's assistance. Voting on the D1 wagon + succeeding at challenge + natural XP gain + Enchant bonus gets them pretty much there.

The scum didn't need to know all of the town's actions to shut down the important actions. While the town couldn't track scum's XP, the scum could track the town's XP at least decently, so the scum would have fairly reliable methods of identifying each time a player was at a dangerous threshold. The scum didn't need to counter every town ability, they only needed to have enough to counter enough of the town's abilities, and they had that capability.

[mastina]

Btw

Ginngie

/

Jingle

: I saw you two mention having a ton of alternate wincons.

You two may be interested in my Ulterior Motive Mafia, which will be a 24 player game with this info public (formatting is messy because I'm a terrible procrastinator, I've had the game idea for almost four months by now and have yet to finish it):

Loose draft of public info

Game is

mostly

standard multiball game.
All topics have daytalk.
Scum may use personal actions in accordance to their role PM in addition to factional actions in accordance to their role PM.
Not limited to strictly Normal mechanics/roles, but

mostly

normal.
All information in initial role PM guaranteed to be accurate. Could have, say, a doctor giving a false result to a gunsmith, or redirection roles, but these interactions will be fairly spelt out and not hidden.
No forced alignment change, but some ulterior motives

may

contain alignment changes.
Some ulterior motives may be malevolent; many ulterior motives will be relatively harmless, and can be things such as wallposting certain amount of words, being a top poster, being a bottom poster, etc.
However, claiming ulterior motives is a Very Bad Idea, as there will often be consequences to this.
There will be

approximately

half the players in the game with ulterior motives, but this is very

loosely

'half'. Could be as low as 6 or as high as 18, potentially, so not going to strictly be 12, can be more, can be less, but is in that range.)

(I'll eventually be needing a backup mod for it in particular although my terrible procrastinating at actually writing things out means I'm not quite ready to invite someone for that.)

[mastina]

Btw Ginngie all the other PTs are open but the Dead PT isn't...

[mastina]

Guessing there wasn't a dead PT given the resurrection mechanics

There was, it says I'm not authorized to read it.

Subject: Mini 2266: GnG's Upick Mafia [Warrior Neighborhood]

Why would a town player want to go through the warrior tree a second time to get another vig when reviving people is clearly the more pro-town option?

1: Frozen Angel told me not to take a miller, which meant I couldn't go for the mage tree while honoring her wishes.

2: I wasn't going for a second vig. I was going for a second bodyguard.
Now, when I was frustrated with the town for them wagoning two town players (myself and Roden) with no wagon on scum, I wanted a second vig as a "fuck you" to the town for it, but that was well after the fact.