KTaNE [game over!]

[Bell]

Hi. I’m on lunch.

[Bell]

Can we fail to defuse the bomb but solve for each bomb.
Because I feel like I am incapable of not trying to solve for bomb defusals.
Also, did I read it wrong or do mafia always get to pick who defuses the bomb and therefore it is impossible to achieve the town win con?

[Bell]

I haven’t read the mechanics chat.
But it sounds like we started with “we can’t defuse stuff”
And I’m like okay, but can we solve the puzzle.

[Bell]

VP baltar’s posts give me incredibly mixed feelings.
There first vote made me wanna vote them.
And then the rest of their posts were chill and cool and good.

[Bell]

Their first post*

[Bell]

Oh. That’s interesting.
I should probably read the rules when I get home after dnd. To understand the circumstances around the alt win con.

[Bell]

I skimmed it.
At 1% phone.

Okay. I’ve decided how I’m playing the bomb game.

[Bell]

VOTE: Ceprir

[Bell]

Hey bell wanna play battleship

Sure

[Bell]

He’s trying to play us against each other but it won’t work because you’re totally scum this game again.

[Bell]

Dwlee, I feel like you did this thing with Koba just like five minutes ago.
What’s different this time?

[Bell]

That sounds fair to me assuming you play similarly as scum in multiball

[Bell]

The idea that cephrir wouldn’t involuntarily celebrate as their facial and typing fingers betrayed them through sheer elation is hard to swallow for me.

[Bell]

*scum can you please nom Frogster king first as bomb guy.

Pedit: feels fake.

[Bell]

*scum can you please nom Frogster king first as bomb guy.

Pedit: feels fake.

What does?

The part after your reads list where you talk to the air.

[Bell]

Then you should have celebrated when you had the chance cephrir.

[Bell]

*scum can you please nom Frogster king first as bomb guy.

Pedit: feels fake.

What does?

The part after your reads list where you talk to the air.

No

I mean do you think I lack that much self-awareness.

No. Actually. I think you’re aware that you’re posting how you’re posting.

[Bell]

Down girl,
I just got here.

[Bell]

No, I’m saying you thinking out loud is intentional. You’re thinking town outloud.

[Bell]

I feel like lukewarm sorts themselves with enthusiasm. I’d be voting them if I didn’t know where they were 2 hours ago.

[Bell]

I feel like lukewarm sorts themselves with enthusiasm. I’d be voting them if I didn’t know where they were 2 hours ago.

I am very enthusiastic as scum. Please find another way to sort me, thanks!

No.

[Bell]

Yeah it's been pretty unreal I havent counted but something like 2 town 8 scum recently

Sorry you got it again then!

Zzz just let me do cephrir things for a while you'll end up townreading me eventually I'm just too cute

This is how you get away with being scum so many times and surviving all game.

[Bell]

Dwlee99

>:(

I mean, what have you done that I should read into and sort you from? Like, if you expect a TR from "IM ENTERING AND VOTING ANDANTE" think again, cause like, I've been on top of this game, trying my best to sort people, and you literally just "don't care! andante maf!!" like, makes me feel like I'm wasting my time if you are town, so... not a great feeling, cause if I said something you hate, again, feel free to point it out, ask questions...

but yeah, got stuff to do, and if I didn't post my thoughts, yall are getting like an entirely new readslist tomorrow..

Andante, psychoanalyze this post for me please.

And by that I mean, explain where all this angst is coming from.

[Bell]

Lukewarm, you posted the exact same thing the last time I said that about you.
I'm more multilayered and oversimplify, sure.

[Bell]

Are they using their trauma for good or evil

[Bell]

Best page top.

[Bell]

I'mma go read a book now.
Tbh, I'm somehow not town reading anyone yet.
I have some eh scum reads tho.

[Bell]

I would kill to have more town reads right about now

Town

Bell

[Bell]

I'mma go read a book now.
Tbh, I'm somehow not town reading anyone yet.
I have some eh scum reads tho.

I would kill to have more town reads right about now

Town

Bell

Lol. What are your scum reads?

Baltar, Cephrir.

[Bell]

Are they using their trauma for good or evil

I think the best thing is to look past stuff like that and look at her analysis. She's enthusiastically solving and trying to analyze with some level of depth, so probably town.

I don't have enough meta to know if they can fake enthusiastically solve. I don't have a grasp on their scum game.

[Bell]

my eyes have glazed over the last few pages of my catch up

+1 for scum Lukewarm.

[Bell]

Are they using their trauma for good or evil

I think the best thing is to look past stuff like that and look at her analysis. She's enthusiastically solving and trying to analyze with some level of depth, so probably town.

I don't have enough meta to know if they can fake enthusiastically solve. I don't have a grasp on their scum game.

Andante's town game is obvious because she gives a bunch of wild changing reads, buddies up to anyone who calls her town, and omgus anyone who calls her scum. (No disrespect, she just plays a very emotionally transparent game)

Cool. Thank you.

[Bell]

I volunteer to be the bomb defuser.


@Frogsterking: Uh they do have a really pol...well actually maybe not polished, I don't know how much they think about it, but if you replaced polished with "is good at scum" then yes.

[Bell]

I volunteer to be the bomb defuser.

Is this directed at the scum team, or have you still not gotten a grasp on the set up? lol

Yes

[Bell]

VOTE: Lukewarm
Good night!

[Bell]

Like at all lol

I scumread you in the last datisi game. I think our previous game together I probably townread you? This isn't a super longstanding pattern like you're making it out to be

I want to know which games Dwlee is referring to here.

*scum can you please nom Frogster king first as bomb guy.

Pedit: feels fake.

Bell can you explain what you were attempting to communicate here?

You posted a wall, so I wanted you to die.
The feels fake thing was to Dwlee.

@Luke: Okay. Sure.

[Bell]

I could see Bell and Frogs as partners actually.... oh we're gonna go into dangerous territory real soon... when I get locked into team reads...

Please don't partner hunt before there are flips. This is a waste of time and brain power.

[Bell]

Andante lol i know sorry that was a stupid question in hindsight. I get alignments of previous games mixed a lot

lol it's all good!!! no such thing as stupid questions!!! I answer everything directed my way and more!!! (and if I miss is, it's an accident) don't want anyone feeling like I'm ignoring!!!

and frogs, I'm confused... lol what?

You ignored me!!!! Woof.

[Bell]

I'm mostly satisfied with Andante for lying about going to bed and instead spamming here.

[Bell]

The odds of you being wrong is astronomically high, I can't remember the last time someone mentioned an associative day 1 and had it right.
Today is not such a day.

@Andante, nah. I don't care about it anymore tbh. I was just teasing.

[Bell]

More lukewarm votes.

[Bell]

My lukewarm algorithm is reading red.

[Bell]

VOTE: lukewarm

Sure

Trown!!!
As a certain worm with a phd likes to say.

[Bell]

It’s pretty much related to how they’re navigating suspicion. What they’re choosing to address, how long they choose to address a topic, etc.

[Bell]

And their post about asking whether volunteering to be the bomb defuser person was made out of ignorance or was asking the scum team.
Something about it bothered me, but I can’t put my finger on it.

[Bell]

It’s pretty much related to how they’re navigating suspicion. What they’re choosing to address, how long they choose to address a topic, etc.

Could you highlight where pls? I’ve looked at the iso and I can maybe get on board but I want a better idea of what you’re seeing first

I have no idea how to highlight vague pattern differentials.
They’ll post more. Maybe those new posts will trip your scumdar.
Maybe skim the scum game they linked that they’re proud of.
And see the differences between town luke and scum luke.

I’m not sure how much you’ve played with them tho, so I’m not sure how familiar you are with town luke.

[Bell]

Gotta go to work. Gunna run late.
Nvm on vp baltar scum.
Too wholesome. Must be town.

[Bell]

601 looks like a scumpost to me.

K

[Bell]

Lukewarm is usually a lot more direct on addressing pressure than they are here.
Their priorities are different.

[Bell]

I’ll be honest, I’m going to be skimming any pages that happen when I’m asleep at best

I think the game will go smoother if we just assume people are going to miss things for the first few days

601 looks like a scumpost to me.

I agree

I'm not seeing it, please explain what about it looks scummy, and in addition to that, can I get your thoughts on Cat Scratch please?

My lukewarm algorithm is reading red.

"I have a way of reading Luke and it makes me think that he is scum"

When asked to back up his read, his response was

It’s pretty much related to how they’re navigating suspicion. What they’re choosing to address, how long they choose to address a topic, etc.

Could you highlight where pls? I’ve looked at the iso and I can maybe get on board but I want a better idea of what you’re seeing first

I have no idea how to highlight vague pattern differentials.
They’ll post more. Maybe those new posts will trip your scumdar.
Maybe skim the scum game they linked that they’re proud of.
And see the differences between town luke and scum luke.

I’m not sure how much you’ve played with them tho, so I’m not sure how familiar you are with town luke.

-I cannot point to any posts or really explain it
-Second line precludes the possibility that I could be town
-Tells someone else to go do meta work to figure out why I am scum, despite not being able to say anything about it themselves

Felt more like posturing about me being scum then an actual read.

This rebuttal is so uninspired that you might as well have said “no, u”

[Bell]

What in the world happened

[Bell]

sup Bell how's it going in scum-land?

It's been a pretty rewarding and challenging day. I'm not sure how to process these unique days where a hilarious amount of *things* happen.
How about you?

[Bell]

First time replacing??? It's like mafia, but better in *almost* every conceivable way!

Im not sure I buy Luke as scum but I'll leave it at that

Why are you leaving it at that

[Bell]

HEAL: Greeting

[Bell]

sup Bell how's it going in scum-land?

It's been a pretty rewarding and challenging day. I'm not sure how to process these unique days where a hilarious amount of *things* happen.
How about you?

I've had better days and I think life will probably get better.

The future is bright, wonderful, and unbounded.

Thank you for asking.

Like button.

[Bell]

Caught up kind of.

No comment on luke.
Fire person's entrance is not good enough and has some red flags.

Andante keeps hitting the town button, but I don't want to heal them because I can't imagine there is any benefit to giving Andante that role. But I wouldn't mind having it explained to me why it would be a good thing and then I'll 180.

[Bell]

My experience with MT has not resulted in me getting a read off of them yet. But my experience is that they’re pretty hedgy as town, so I don’t agree with GL.

[Bell]

Fire person's entrance is not good enough and has some red flags.

what are the red flags? I didn't really have any issues with fire's posts

1. Posted about who they replaced.
2. Posted a reads list they made before they knew their alignment.

[Bell]

I think this more nuanced statement is more true than the previous one. Not sure if scumz MT tho.

[Bell]

1. Posted about who they replaced.
2. Posted a reads list they made before they knew their alignment.

isn't this wholly NAI? Like I think it's a given fire made that readslist before they replaced into the game (the timing is too quick for it to be fake), and I think once they've done that then as town or as scum they'd post it. if anything it's ever so slightly +town since it indicates they aren't yet trying to Enact An Agenda, the only real scum-motivation I could see it in is a) it's what they'd do as town -> hence NAI or b) it could make them

look

town.

But again, if you already made the readslist, prior to knowing your alignment, then you'd almost certainly post it as town too. It's not town-indicative, but I definitely don't see how you can think it's more scum-indicative than null

1. I wanna make clear that what I'm about to say is weak sauce, but I think that scum replacements are more focused on what their predecessor did than town are. Their posts demonstrated where their head was at(what look did and how it made him look/how others saw him)
2. Choosing to post a readslist you made before you knew your alignment when the default perspective of this particular player is obviously town before they receive a role pm I think is more plausibly coming from the perspective of someone who has a perfectly good set of town opinions and that replacing them with their now scum-o-vision is both additional effort they might not wanna waste by making another list and, if they're not confident is likely to pass muster better than writing a list now that they're town.

I wanna clean this post up, but I refuse. Too lazy. Take my word salad and like it.

[Bell]

Hah "pass muster better than writing a list now that they're scum"
posting drafts is the best.

[Bell]

I'm null on GL.
I've seen them do way better as town tho.

[Bell]

It sort of sucks that the people I would usually auto-nom if there was even a whiff of towniness from them to bomb advise, are either actively scummy or under performing.

[Bell]

Is this because you don't want me to be the bomb defuser.
Because I hate you if that's the reason.

[Bell]

Luke.

I'm too paranoid of Catboi to ever nom them early unless they're utterly obvtown.
They're pretty townie this game.
But yeah,
no.

[Bell]

Is this because you don't want me to be the bomb defuser.

Because I hate you if that's the reason.

If I wanted you to be the defuser I wouldn't have nominated you to be an expert.

[Bell]

Is it because you don't want me to hate you.

[Bell]

Uh, I'm good thanks. The only speed I solve at is the speed of Bell. No point forcing it.
I'm comfortable killing fire's slot.

[Bell]

So you're saying you replaced into a town slot, basically

[Bell]

Oh was that what you were asking?

Andante: Town.
Greeting:Town.
Bell: town
Fireisredsir: Scum

[Bell]

HEAL: Catboi

Gunna read a book.
Later.

[Bell]

Why isn't fire dead yet

[Bell]

I wish I were posting like this as scum. But no. And it should be decently apparent to people.

It's pretty apparent yeah.

[Bell]

#990 from bulge is annoying if town.

[Bell]

I feel bad that I scum read baltar for their effort post.
The reason I am compelled to scum read it, is because their reads, read like characterizations first and sorting people second.

[Bell]

I’m also confused about their positive views on Titus. It’s not all bad, the characterization sort of stops in the second half of the list, but I’m not terribly sure what to make of it. Or why some reads are there, that are, essentially filler for “dude is lurking” etc

[Bell]

Hi Baltar, are you scum?
You have to tell me If you are.

[Bell]

You got the reference. Though i have no idea where the reference originated.

Also cephrir continues to bleh, GL continues to be bleh, bulge is bleh, the fire guy is bleh.
Bleh bleh bleh.

[Bell]

I still dunno where the fire resistance is from, we’re 47 pages in. Time to kill somebody.

[Bell]

we can kill somebody but i call dibs on it not being me

I called dibs on it being you even before you replaced in.

Also cephrir continues to bleh, GL continues to be bleh, bulge is bleh, the fire guy is bleh.
Bleh bleh bleh.

Feel like we kind of agree on the game except fire. Setting luke aside, are there specific things about fire that bug you?

Already spoke about this, it's very much a lukewarm scum read I have, though their wry observations and snide insinuations (this is a movie reference, not actually something they did on the latter half) isn't helping.

You got the reference. Though i have no idea where the reference originated.

Also cephrir continues to bleh, GL continues to be bleh, bulge is bleh, the fire guy is bleh.
Bleh bleh bleh.

Maybe you just think I'm a bleh person.

Uh huh.

[Bell]

Why did Pooky stop harassing me

[Bell]

I really wanna be the bomb defuser.

[Bell]

Please add greeting to that list.

@Pedit: Thank you!

[Bell]

HEAL: Pooky

Pretty sure the mod could announce you IC and I would be calling you scum for it at this post based on my "goddamnit, fucking wifom" emotional response to this.

[Bell]

Let me say this again though folks.
I'm willing to bet the day 1 elimination on fireisredsir purely because of how Luke chose to engage with people who voiced suspicion of them. They tactically ignored people when their default response is to engage and communicate when things are thrown at them based on every game I've played with them. It's just too much of a red flag for me to ignore.

[Bell]

HEAL: Andante
Please refrain from blowing this, literally.

[Bell]

I'm willing to bet the day 1 elimination on fireisredsir

I mean, I'm pretty convinced VP is maf... is VP your partner, and you're trying to distract us or something? like, why not VP?

Which came first, my suspicion of Fireisred's slot or VP Baltar distraction plan.

@CSF: Okay.

[Bell]

I kind of want CSF/Andante/Catboi/Me for my bomb team

An aside:
Pooky Posse, Pooky personality cult, Pookybomb squad.
sigh. I shouldn't realy see anything into that, but it always triggers me a little when I see him do that, jut due to how many times they've done it as scum, even though I think they do it as town(?) too.

[Bell]

What were your pronouns again Pooky?

[Bell]

Mine.

[Bell]

I'm willing to bet the day 1 elimination on fireisredsir

I mean, I'm pretty convinced VP is maf... is VP your partner, and you're trying to distract us or something? like, why not VP?

I don't really think Bell!scum sees VPB!scum post an effort wall-post readlist and then decides to call it out for being trash

This is true, I don't usually have the willingness to slap down my own partners when they put in earnest efforts.
Uh, assuming they're scum this game, which I'm not really. I've been really up and down on them all game.

[Bell]

Pretty much, one of the things about Baltar that I find sort of difficult to parse (in that I naturally TR people for this) is that they seem to or tend to try collaborating on players they're signaling that they think are town.

It's hard to tell if they're tactically buddying certain players or their are just certain players they're particularly interested in hearing their opinions. They've also put in a lot of effort in engagement this game.
I do think how Catboi recently commented on Baltar points to there being +funny points to VP baltar being scum because I tend to think that Town Peta tends to dead center scum in their reads. But that's for a wry universe in a narrative sense more than an actual take on my part, though maybe there is something to that. If you're waiting me to come to a conclusion or to some kind of point, you're going to be here a while.

[Bell]

I'm shit posting a lot. Maybe I should stop.

[Bell]

Brain boiling from difficult work week. Emotional lability that I don't quite understand, sort of feeling like I want to cry just out of sheer, "I can't really process all of this." stuff.
I can't articulate it well. I'm just trying to emotionally regulate I think by putting myself down and to bed when I'm done for the day and feel myself about to go off into thoughtless comments or something.

[Bell]

I kind of want CSF/Andante/Catboi/Me for my bomb team

An aside:
Pooky Posse, Pooky personality cult, Pookybomb squad.
sigh. I shouldn't realy see anything into that, but it always triggers me a little when I see him do that, jut due to how many times they've done it as scum, even though I think they do it as town(?) too.

Huh? I'm not following what you're meaning here?

Pattern recognition. Pooky tends to do like these membership lists in games. Pooky has also been scum in a higher number of games than rand with me. It’s a bad correlation. Ignore it.

read like characterizations first and sorting people second.

What does this mean though? At first I thought maybe I knew what you're saying, like I am giving personality traits or something...but I don't think I'm doing that and I'm not really sure what you actually mean

No, you got it right you can disagree but I think the first half town part is more about characteristics than solve.

I still dunno where the fire resistance is from, we’re 47 pages in. Time to kill somebody.

I would like to see you sell me on fire and not just luke. It feels kind of bad faith for us to lim him solely on some luke reactions you didn't like.

Fire's interactions this game don't look that scummy to me, so I'm having a hard time getting the tunnel on him. (Yes, I know you said this is a luke thing, I'm just saying!)

…why are you bringing up fairness in an unfair world. It’s not something I’m going to engage you about. I don’t apply what is just or fair to games of mafia regarding player alignment. If a player miseliminated a bunch of players I do not think “it’s only fair they die now.” And thinking they must be scum for pushing town wagons a lot.

[Bell]

I do not think how Baltar is posting right now is scummy btw. But I am very weak to aTe. I also know saying that is not going to be helpful.

[Bell]

I do think that if baltar is town here this is a case of people seeing a player be different and failing to adequately solve for the player when they give you a true explanation for their behavior.

If they’re scum, lol myb for not being very helpful. I’m not terribly against it next game day tho.

[Bell]

Sure, that’s a plausible explanation.

[Bell]

Don’t care. My opinion is that fire is a slam dunk and I will keep thinking so until the mod or a role proves me wrong. It’s simply in my interest to keep trying to kill them. Play toward win con, use what you know to try to sort for people. I think I have a reliable way to sort Luke and so I will push it. Until I learn if they’re scum or not. That’s pretty much my actual perspective here.

[Bell]

If I’m wrong that’s good too because then I learn something new about Luke and I’m perfectly happy to apologize for the bad read. I tried my best and failed to solve for a player. It happens.

I also don’t think my vote parking is congruent with laziness since it’s not like I haven’t said other things.
Sure I keep repeating that I want fire dead, but that’s not the only thing i’m doing and you saying it is, is pretty much a misrepresentation.

[Bell]

That’s sure yes. But you’re calling me lazy and that makes me sad. Even though it’s true.

[Bell]

I dunno what to think on aggrieved Dwlee, last Dwlee was scum, but I think his multiball argument was an excellent explanation. I dunno if I’m just unimpressed with their solving though. Rather. I’m just meh on them.

Meh.

[Bell]

Sure. That’s fine. If you’re partners with Luke you’re doing an excellent job of convincing me otherwise.
Of course none of this matters if I’m wrong on Luke. Well that’s not true. I’m not sure of how you’re defending them is informed or not. I always get a little bugged out when people say “I don’t see what other people are seeing about x” just because scum say that(so do town, but as scum I’m sometimes tempted to say it and approach it very differently). It’s more fortune cookie thinking. I definitely need to stop that.

[Bell]

I dunno what to think on aggrieved Dwlee, last Dwlee was scum, but I think their multiball argument was an excellent explanation. I dunno if I’m just unimpressed with their solving though. Rather. I’m just meh on them.

Meh.

Apologies.

[Bell]

Please post in complete sentences. I’m not a hypocrite *sweats*

[Bell]

I mean,
This is from my perspective and it is not necessarily the correct one.
But I tend to think that you’re just not a threat to scum, a lot of people called you out as town and scum don’t feel like engaging with you on a back and forth by holding a different view from the majority or having to deal with the attention.

[Bell]

I could easily see you also just writing the wrong instructions for a bomb defusal, on *accident*
So maybe they’re hoping you screw up and flail around while they giggle in a corner.

[Bell]

Based off of recent experience with MT, I’m simply of a mixed opinion. Some town pings, some scum pings.
Tone is right on. But not as persistent as I’d expect.
The number of votes on them though is weird. Though I get the vp-Luke thing is splitting the wagon. Second highest still weird.

[Bell]

Koba is what I call a cutt throat. They are motivated to win and enjoy winning.
But they came in here as an alt so I don’t know what they were going for in this game, I also never learned if they stress more as scum or if they left this game specifically because of their alignment plist or something else.

If it had been Koba, No alt. I would’ve been scum reading them this game.

[Bell]

Titus for the love of god. What are you doing this game?

[Bell]

SM: Only played one game with them. I tunneled on them with a conspiracy theory. But they were mechanically cleared based on set up expectations I think if they hadn’t claimed what they’d claimed it would not have been a particularly difficult to miseliminate them accidentally. They have their idiosyncrasies, yes.

[Bell]

But luke you guys.

[Bell]

Csf continues to give off townie vibes but nothing concrete. I think their stated emotions adequately describe their play and approach to me. Though I am surprised they didn’t say it was a token swing just to see what people would do.
But that might just be that since I shit stir I expect others to shit stir with that specifically in mind.

[Bell]

Why are you town reading me?

Holy shit why the fuck did you heal enchant.

[Bell]

I wish I could be a shit stirrer but alas

Maybe one day

Please don’t. The play style is annoying even to other shit stirrers. The less shit stirrers there are the better off the world will be, even if they are kind of easy to read because they don’t shit stir as much when they’re scum (with the exception of one player from a long time ago). And pooky who, uh I dunno is sort of a shit stirrer and seems to be about the same as either alignment. I’m sure there are more tho.

[Bell]

Why are you town reading me?

Holy shit why the fuck did you heal enchant.

Are you not town

Is enchant scum

I’m town.
There is no townie reason to vote enchant. What are you actually doing?

[Bell]

How do you know how much thought I've given to these

Why are you coming off as serious in tone and conversational style if you secretly don’t give a shit unless you’re scum?

[Bell]

How do you know how much thought I've given to these

You haven’t thought about this at all if you’re healing enchant.

[Bell]

Bullshit.

[Bell]

no, it doesn’t make any sense for you to want them in the bomb squad unless you are directly scum. Because if enchant is town they are a hilariously easy miselim because they can fuck up during the bomb disarm phase and the amount of wifom there is unfunny.

[Bell]

It’s simply anti-town to add enchant to a bomb squad even if they are town.

[Bell]

no, it doesn’t make any sense for you to want them in the bomb squad unless you are directly scum. Because if enchant is town they are a hilariously easy miselim because they can fuck up during the bomb disarm phase and the amount of wifom there is unfunny.

Do you think enchant is so brain dead he can't pm the mod to ask what instructions to give? What?

I’m saying that enchant is a lhf in every game I’ve played with them and if you’ve played with them a lot you’d know that too because their posting style is not sufficient to generate town reads for the majority of players here.

[Bell]

no, it doesn’t make any sense for you to want them in the bomb squad unless you are directly scum. Because if enchant is town they are a hilariously easy miselim because they can fuck up during the bomb disarm phase and the amount of wifom there is unfunny.

Do you think enchant is so brain dead he can't pm the mod to ask what instructions to give? What?

I’m saying that enchant is a lhf in every game I’ve played with them and if you’ve played with them a lot you’d know that too because their posting style is not sufficient to generate town reads for the majority of players here.

No, you said "because they can fuck up during bomb disarm phase" which implies he's going to give the wrong instructions even if he is town

Clarification question: the people in the squad when the bomb blows up, is the person in the advise squad get outted as the player who gave the bad info automatically or is it the case that “x, y, z, p” one or more of them fucked up have fun figuring that out.”

[Bell]

I can’t talk good.

I’m asking if the specific adviser is outted as the one that gave bad instructions or is it the case that it just lets us know that one of the advisers selected that day phase gave the wrong advice.

Yes that would be an indicator if that’s how it works baltar. I didn’t think it would work that way though.

[Bell]

I was actually thinking Enchant would be funny to have as a bomb expert HEAL: Enchant

Do we have any name suggestions for the Town Core B team yet? So far it's looking like CSF/Greeting/Frog/ ?? one more spot.

no, bad heal

I was actually thinking Enchant would be funny to have as a bomb expert HEAL: Enchant

Do we have any name suggestions for the Town Core B team yet? So far it's looking like CSF/Greeting/Frog/ ?? one more spot.

Plan B.

[Bell]

I haven’t either.

[Bell]

i think this line of questioning whether dwlee has experience with enchant is a ludicrous waste of time

Thanks for your contribution.

[Bell]

I went back read rules and still can’t determine whether the player that specifically gave the wrong advice gets outted or not.
I don’t want enchant’s ambiguity in the teams if it’s the latter, they’re simply too easy to miselim.

[Bell]

If you put 3 active players that have been selected because they’re townie and enchant is in the same squad, enchant dies tomorrow if the bomb explodes like 8 times out of 10. If the specific adviser doesn’t get outtrd.

It completely removes the opportunity to reconsider a town read by the majority. It is a horrifically bad strategy

[Bell]

HEAL: guiltylion

[Bell]

2 hours later and still mad at dwlee for tanking my read of them if they’re town.
No, it doesn’t need to make sense.

[Bell]

Yes. Don’t nom people that decrease our win con, then when questioned say you’ve correctly read them a bunch, and then refuse to specify what exactly made you town read them this game while simultaneously trolling about whether your votes were serious or not.

[Bell]

That's actually the exact kind of thing I expect scum!bell to say if they want to pivot to mislim me

I mean... really I'm mad at Bell for tanking my read on them if they're town
HURT: Bell

You’re definitely not reading the game closely if you think this isn’t anything but a good thing for me.
Why not just vote me instead?

[Bell]

Like I can’t even explain how bad it is that you directly admit that you only ever misread enchant when you’re scum to miselim them and then try to position them as an advisor that enables exactly that sort of scenario. Heck you don’t even have to pivot you can defend them while the rest of the town does the work for you.

And yes, frogster healing enchant was also bad.
Now that I’ve revealed myself to be judgmental as hell and utterly unlikable, can you respond dwlee.
*grumps* or don’t, w/e.

[Bell]

Mine

[Bell]

Waiting on the rest for 1530. Thanks for finding the time.

[Bell]

This is a good town imo. It feels sort of like there are a bunch of sharks in here.
No idea if we're gunna get owned tho. There's always a risk of scum getting out of the tank.

[Bell]

Mine.

[Bell]

Let's put scummy players in bomb team, so next night we could make lesser, but town one?

My default response to this is no. But I haven't really put complete thought into it.
I imagine in one or two day phases I'll probably end up pretty tyrannical about this. But still thinking on it. It's midnight though, I'll just take my time.
For now though. No. I prefer just shoving a bunch of town reads in there because because it makes it harder for the game state to stagnate.

[Bell]

Frogster, didn't fire claim that 702 was written before he replaced in?

If so, I'm not sure the post is AI.

ye, frog knows this im pretty sure. it is still my thoughts on the game though

my understanding is that frog just wanted to better understand where i was at in how i was reading the game and is using those notes as a place to jump off from to see what im thinking

This post bothers me. But I mean, even I'm rolling my eyes at me at this point.

[Bell]

Okay, I'm potentially feeling better about fire here, I think we're got a good thing going. HEAL: fire

- menalque feels like 164 was posted out of feeling obligated to do so. but town can feel that too. it still gives me the hmmmms
- 256 could be scummy from lion. but i kinda feel good vibes from prae's vp vote right after, for some reason
- andante is scummy as of 288

Now here we have a lot of a scum reads, and no offense, but this take on Menalque 164 is a bit hedge. Are you townreading Menalque or scum reading Menalque, also what do you mean by the hmmms?

The reads between Lion and Prae stemming from 256 seem to share a thought here, is this an associative read? Like Lion is scum if Prae is town?

And finally at this point you say andante is scummy, how did feel about Andante's posts while you were spectating the game compared to once you were in it?

Let thread breathe maybe. But I'm going to be pushing at fire to die again soon and I'm simply not going to stop.

[Bell]

I need to keep reading though. I feel like my view of the game is too incomplete.

Yes. Please continue catching up.

[Bell]

Apparently no one has asked this,

Andre why are you healing people if you've read like, half the game.

[Bell]

I know my own alignment and I'm confident that I can convince anybody that I'm town. There's no reason to sort myself.

[Bell]

Apparently no one has asked this,

Andre why are you healing people if you've read like, half the game.

I don’t need to read every word to have a sense for some players in the early part. And Healing doesn’t close the thread or shorten the day as far as I can tell, so doing it doesn’t have any impact until the day has ended. So I can update those no problem, and if a majority is reached without my vote, and I want to have some influence. It’s like if you’re going to criticize this about me, did you criticize Pooky when they put Heal votes down in the early part of the game (and very many at that)? Otherwise, you’re basically saying that you prefer to have less information from me, not more, and that seems kind of silly.

Why bother if you're just going to update them anyway.

[Bell]

You didn't plop down a vote. Why didn't you vote someone?

[Bell]

You're asking too many inane questions with near brick like thinking. I'm not going to answer them, use your imagination.

[Bell]

I actually don't think you're posting like scum though.

[Bell]

I'm not sure if you're posting like town either, but I do think it's a little weird yeah. I think how you're talking to me is odd because it starts with some general premise about how you think mafia works and then you apply it poorly to my posts in addition to straw manning me. Like a normal person, I poke people until they start making sense. Or they don't. Or I forget.

[Bell]

I haven't a clue why you think I think I don't care about your results or whatever. You just seem to be thinking that I'm thinking from a less charitable position than I actually am and speaking to me from that point of view.
I don't get it. But I don't want you to explain it either, because I'm not sure it would help me read you anyway, tbh. I'm mostly interested in you going to bed and getting some rest and catching up like you did in your catch up in your time in a way conducive to your happiness, satisfaction and personal health.

[Bell]

If nothing else this exchange made me think Frogster is town.
I'm not sure they'd be willing to embarrass themselves like this as scum and I can't imagine them bussing a buddy like this either.
So that just leaves Frog town.

So that's cool.

Pedit: I know this is anti-town of me, but I'm not required to do this. They're just baiting you and you need to ignore it and go to sleep.

[Bell]

I'm not even sure it makes sense for you not to realize he's baiting you I'm pretty sure you've played more games of mafia than I have.
So I'm confused again.

Ignore me too, this is also bait in a fashion.

[Bell]

I believe the rules state you have to follow their advice. No cutting the blue wire, if the adviser tells you to cut the red one.

[Bell]

I'm not even sure it makes sense for you not to realize he's baiting you I'm pretty sure you've played more games of mafia than I have.
So I'm confused again.

Ignore me too, this is also bait in a fashion.

I interpreted the early part of the exchange as curiosity and skepticism which I felt was fair. At this point, I do realize it’s somewhat in bad faith.

That's probably because this might be the case.

[Bell]

Night all.

[Bell]

HEAL: Frogsterking

I'm town, I don't know who the scum are. I hope this helps. Bell out.

[Bell]

largely for postgame credit i'm gonna call ~1 scum in {frogster, VP, andante, bell} for this thing

Witnessed and logged in the big book of i told you sos.

[Bell]

beep

Boop

[Bell]

HEAL: Menalque

[Bell]

HEAL: Catscratchfever

[Bell]

we need more pooky/catboi heals and i would really like to see fewer frogster heals if he's just gonna openly fuck with it

put in some combo of csf, dwlee, me, strange and gl

No we don’t, as long as they’re in the top 8 it doesn’t matter.

[Bell]

Wow I got nothing out of those pages at all

How

[Bell]

Mine

[Bell]

I just did a run through of strange matter’s iso.
I don’t really know what to say there except they’re different compared to the last game I played with them.

[Bell]

Fuck no. The only reason I'm not yelling at people to murder fire is because Andre needs to finish their catch up.
I'm not moving.
Forsooth.

[Bell]

Also, fire should probably make a game solve or try to catch scum if I'm being a fuck up again. They're dying no matter what, but they seem level headed so I won't begrudge them a socratic finish.

[Bell]

Flourish* *grumbles*

[Bell]

ive said like at least 5 times that i dont think putting in 8 townreads is even a good idea, much less something im trying to achieve

How would you like to have it done instead and would that be better than just learning one of your town reads is scum if an explosion occurs? To note, I’m not sure if you’re aware of this. But there are two bomb squads today and each has to have a minimum of 4 players in each. We can’t cut down on it.

[Bell]

I think Bell might be the last scum

It’s me the last scum. Good job, you caught me.

[Bell]

E-3 for fire I think.

[Bell]

if anyone thinks that anything ive done has a scum motivation im happy to talk about it

or like at least explain if your vote has anything to do with anything other than luke

that would be nice for helping to sort who is scum taking advantage of this

I don’t feel much like there’s a spontaneity to you. You tend to make safe comments.
I never feel surprised at your takes or think they’re unique or imaginative.
I feel like you’re trying to get through the net primarily by making yourself available so that people feel like they’re treating you unfairly or that, you should be given “a chance”
But as mentioned, I don’t play fair. I play mafia.

[Bell]

The frogster needs to stop trying to hero solve talking point is, not a good talking point.

@cephrir: than do something that resembles scum hunting. I’m not going to heal you if you don’t.

[Bell]

@cephrir: than do something that resembles scum hunting. I’m not going to heal you if you don’t.

I've going to vote you if you put Ceph back in the core

What in the world gave you the impression saying this would do literally anything?

[Bell]

The frogster needs to stop trying to hero solve talking point is, not a good talking point.

@cephrir: than do something that resembles scum hunting. I’m not going to heal you if you don’t.

im having a slow game. this happens sometimes. i could force it with some isos but i don't feel like it yet. i dont really expect to be healed, it would be cool but w/e

I don’t even know what to say to this when you’ve literally had like 8 scum games in a row and all that pent up solve should’ve gone somewhere.

[Bell]

a town pm means i can chill

*speechless*
I would be screaming from the roof tops, spamming and laughing maniacally

I can’t even really say, “but okay” because I’m not sure I’m okay with you this game.
Also, you chill when you’re scum too, externally.
Internally I know you stress about it, but in thread it doesn’t feel that way.

[Bell]

MINE ALL MINE AHAHAHA

[Bell]

there seems to be a common misconception that i'm some sort of good town player, mainly because people haven't seen it and assume im probably good

I don’t have this misconception. I played with town you in team mafia 2021. I just think something would have leaked out by now. But meh. You have some sort of barrier around you that makes me genuinely apathetic unless I’ll utterly convinced.

bell i was gonna come up with some hot takes for you but unfortunately i just don't really have any

i think things are generally moving in the right direction here with the obvious exception of people being on me

it would be pretty easy to lie and come up with some if I were maf but meh im not

i know you probably won't like this post either but i can't help you there

That’s cool. Just sit there until inspiration strikes you.
Or ask your scum partners for advice in the scum PT.

@1758: stahp blabbering. Only I’m allowed to do that.

[Bell]

can someone point me to the fire!maf case?

They’re boring and Lukewarm ran through a mine field of meta scum tells. Before probably turning a shade of blue.
And xyz.

[Bell]

Sure whatever. I’ll read it. Reminder though that just because it sounds sensible doesn’t mean it’s right.

[Bell]

Thanks buddy.

I need someone to direct who the last two that should be healed are.
I think I’m most comfortable with Mena, GL, Baltar, being the last 2~3 on the list.

As I feel like I’ll just automatically murder the people at four votes right now if something goes wrong.

[Bell]

so 3 scum most likely in:
[tweet, menalque]
[dwlee, strange]
[andres, mala, enchant]

and then like maybe 1 of:
[csf, bell]
[vp, andante]

an 11 person poe woohooo that's so useful

Well, this is a very strange list indeed.

[Bell]

bell who do you think is scummy besides me

and what makes my list strange?

Cephrir, dwlee, Mala.


It’s haphazard and the placement of two PoE lists is confusing for no discernible reason.

[Bell]

No. We should kill fire, because if they’re scum there’s plenty of associations to go through as well. Everybody has asked about fire.
Also, I don’t really know what you’re talking about in how what you wrote makes a lot of sense to you. At minimum two players get killed if fire is scum.

And sure, they could talk themselves out of their elimination. But that’s true for any reasonably active player that tries not to get killed.

[Bell]

At minimum two players get killed if fire is scum.

?

I’m phone posting and there is some wild autocorrecting going on.
Meant cleared there.

@fire, um. You should probably look at your own post again and think about why someone would think it’s strange given the information you provided.

[Bell]

so 3 scum most likely in:
[tweet, menalque]

Why are these 7 players separated by 3 lines?

[dwlee, strange]

Why is Dwlee in the middle of this list when you think Dwlee is scum and seem to have indicated you were pretty strongly scum them?

[andres, mala, enchant]

Why is Andres grouped with Mala and Enchant, one of these is not like the others.

and then like maybe 1 of:
[csf, bell]

Once again why are there 4 players 2 separate lines. Why are there two separate PoE lists

[vp, andante]

an 11 person poe woohooo that's so useful

I hope this helps explain my confusion.

@Frogster,

[Bell]

@bell

- they're loosely grouped by how likely i think they're scum.

scummiest at the top

. the two separate poe chunks are a wider gap in likelihood. i feel like this should be pretty obvious???

- dwlee isn't in the top group cause my gutread isn't as strong as it is for the top two. their positioning looks pretty scummy tho so they get in the 2nd group.

- andres mala and enchant are all in the "they were pretty absent for a while or still are and haven't really done anything towny but also i don't specifically scumread their play" group. which one isn't like the others? they are in the same mental bucket for me

Scummiest usually aren't put at the top, nor do PoE lists usually involve segments of likelihood from top to bottom. Also, find it difficult to believe that you'd let Cephrir slip by with a near total absence of hunting, that they even admitted to. Even just basic ego protection should have had you put him in that list. Because later down the line, it would look really silly if you gave a player a pace for tone, when you've come off as fairly analytical so far.

This grouping only makes sense if you ignored or didn't try to get anything out of Andre's 40 posts.

[Bell]

I'm really putting myself in deep if I'm wrong on this guy btw.
I hope ya'll enjoy my humiliation when I'm inevitably wrong.

[Bell]

I'm really putting myself in deep if I'm wrong on this guy btw.
I hope ya'll enjoy my humiliation when I'm inevitably wrong.

These are the kinds of posts which make me scum read Bell

I'll allow you your silly, silly thoughts.

[Bell]

Scummiest usually aren't put at the top, nor do PoE lists usually involve segments of likelihood from top to bottom. Also, find it difficult to believe that you'd let Cephrir slip by with a near total absence of hunting, that they even admitted to. Even just basic ego protection should have had you put him in that list. Because later down the line, it would look really silly if you gave a player a pace for tone, when you've come off as fairly analytical so far.

This grouping only makes sense if you ignored or didn't try to get anything out of Andre's 40 posts.

idk like i said my brain doesn't really work in readlists. I tried to be helpful and make one but ig I should have just stuck with writing out my thoughts and not tried to summarize them for people to nitpick where exactly i placed every name. it literally doesn't matter bc the next time one of those people posts, my opinion will probably shift. i still think it isn't that hard to see what i meant

ceph feels towny, idk what you want me to say. why does he get a callout over titus and pooky? also being in my poe for now does not mean i will ignore the players outside of it forever. my opinions change often

i read andres posts and i don't find them especially towny or scummy. i still fit him in that category because he hasn't really fully engaged with the contemporary state of the thread besides when he talked to frog. scum is very capable of posting long catchup notes and then not really engaging in real time, and i treat the people who do as essentially the same as people who are mostly absent. i mostly read people off their positioning and movement and the way they engage with people and the thread

Good question, they're missing from your PoE too.

[Bell]

Lmk when everyone is interested in moving the game forward by killing fire.
Have you read his name.
It tells you his alignment
Sir.

[Bell]

By this very argument, taken to its extreme I could never push a wagon through unless the game had precisely 0.0000000001 nanoseconds left on the timer for that day phase.
You know, in case something interesting happens.

[Bell]

I agree, which is why you should vote yourself to further my win condition.

[Bell]

Don't end the day until you see my scum case on Bell. I don't want him to bury my nightkill under wifom logic either.

*cough*

[Bell]

I'm more interested in you addressing why you did a huge catch up post this game when you've replaced into other games and didn't do that or chose to go about it differently.

[Bell]

I'm more interested in you addressing why you did a huge catch up post this game when you've replaced into other games and didn't do that or chose to go about it differently.

I didn’t replace into this game. And I have not done anything I haven’t done as Town in other games. Check again.

You're right.

[Bell]

You didn't plop down a vote. Why didn't you vote someone?

You fault me for putting Heal votes down without reading everything (which if I’m being realistic, the odds that I get 8 Town and no Scum even if I read every word D1 are not great), but you want me to place my single elimination vote already? Why?

My strongest SR from the early going was VPB. I’m not ready to vote there until I have actually at least read the entirety of what’s been posted so far so I can be surer there aren’t Scummier slots.

Good question from Bell, a sad reply from andres.

The logic of healing becuase you can always change it applies to voting too. Except there is the additional scum cover motivation I noted above, so....

Except a majority ends the voting phase and forces twilight, healing doesn’t. But hey, probably a meaningless distinction to you.

Are you seriously arguing that you were worried you would hammer someone or contribute to the game day ending early so you didn't vote anyone?
Because that's silly.

[Bell]

You didn't plop down a vote. Why didn't you vote someone?

You fault me for putting Heal votes down without reading everything (which if I’m being realistic, the odds that I get 8 Town and no Scum even if I read every word D1 are not great), but you want me to place my single elimination vote already? Why?

My strongest SR from the early going was VPB. I’m not ready to vote there until I have actually at least read the entirety of what’s been posted so far so I can be surer there aren’t Scummier slots.

Good question from Bell, a sad reply from andres.

The logic of healing becuase you can always change it applies to voting too. Except there is the additional scum cover motivation I noted above, so....

Except a majority ends the voting phase and forces twilight, healing doesn’t. But hey, probably a meaningless distinction to you.

Are you seriously arguing that you were worried you would hammer someone or contribute to the game day ending early so you didn't vote anyone?
Because that's silly.

CLEARLY not the first one. I didn’t want my vote to become stale and force an execution I wasn’t ready for. Sue me.

I would but I try not to fight people on their home ground. *snicker*

[Bell]

This implies you think Frogsterking believes a singe thing they're saying.
Which is quite the take.

[Bell]

Imagine you were frogsterking and you wrote a post but everytime you moused over the submit button it was replaced by 'lob granade'

[Bell]

That's my opinion of Frogsterking's play in a nutshell.