Open 848: Chromavalon: A Bouquet of Colors [Game Over]

[Flea The Magician]

butterflies: I townread butterflies. They seem to be actively trying to find mafia, and they explain their thought process behind each vote/suspicion well, which you don't always get here, not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. It's +town that they focus on scumreads rather than townreads. I think I will use this opportunity to answer their questions posed in 70 - thanks for the bone Flea! 1) Read down to find out my suspicions 2) Again, this post has the answers. 3) I haven't played with a hydra before. I now understand that ButterDrew is the same as NancyFly - please keep the names consistent. I haven't really discerned between the two of you - you haven't disagreed on anything yet. That is to say you are just as easy to read as each other because you have been one entity so far. The kind of things I use to scumhunt aren't really be determined by personality - I try not to look at tone or playstyle but rather game analysis/voting.

This is our first hydra together in fairness and anyone who has seen me in a hydra will tell you I usually sign with some variation of the character I'm RPing or Flea.

Oh and math has never been my strong suit.

5 players in 3 roles to guess. It's 1:60(5*4*3) possibilities without colours, it's something like 1:360 (5*3)*(4*2)*3 if I've brained this right currently.
One muse claimed with target makes that 1:12(4*3) without colours, 1:24(4*2)*3 with colours.
Muses absolutely should never claim in my opinon and should play smart.

Now my brain hurts. *grumble grumble*

Muses can use discretion

If it's somebody who won't get eliminated otherwise, sure, reveal, but keep in mind that there will probably only be 1 muse claiming a target this game. I do think it is disadvantageous for muses to always claim their target when being run up

And no they absolutely should not as the Block will know the Muses colour when revealed. We need to keep numbers high to keep scum chances low.

Butterflea and Momma bear, huddle around huddle around
Imagine ... we're in our lovely little hydra
and all of a sudden noraa is spamming
DUNN IS SCUM DUNN IS SCUM DUNN IS SCUM

right now i would say i am at 80% certainty that dunn is scum. the reason it isn't 90% is because this playerlist doesn't look like one that would let 100% of town dunn shine through on day 1.

I mean your read rate at the moment is definitely impressive....

Two pages have been added since I went to sleep. I don't think I 'peaced out' for more than about 15 hours. I'll make a few points here. Firstly, butterflies is scumreading both Progo and me for comments about strategy. This is inherently both redundant and pointless, because 1) all we said was that Muses should influence the game rather than leaving us 8v3 Mountainous (which is exactly what implosion said in 55, and 2) supposing I was mafia, or Progo was mafia (which they might well be), why would we make (according to butterflies) posts that aren't protown? I appreciate the attempts to solve, but this strategy talk is really NAI for me. I only read alignment into it when people aren't giving enough analysis. The TLDR on that one is scumreading players for strategy talk is not valid. Find new reasons to scumread me, because a scumcase based on my strategic Musings is very weak indeed.

I've also received some pushback for my scumread on Noraa. I don't give players +town for tunneling (as ze seem to be doing with Dunnstral). As I explained in my readslist, I don't see how Dunnstral could be anything more than Null with how little they've posted. Experienced scum know that poeple give towncredit for pushing. I think what is harder to do as mafia is give reads on the entire player list, which is what I'd like to see from zir. butterflies says in 174 that Noraa is obviously not getting eliminated today. Why not? and why does that make zir a 'safe vote'?

Nora is absolutely town and both heads here are in sync on that.
Experienced scum know their reads lists need to be convincing, in my case if you ask me for a reads list I tell you to dance naked under the full moons light.
Thing is inexperienced scum might tend to do "townie behaviours" and try to frame them appropriately.

I'm in full agreement with Nancy's findings and nothing more to add to what she's said so far beyond whats above. <3

ButterFlea is going to Flutterby and will be back later

[Flea The Magician]

that was so towny i dont eeven know how to explain how i feel @_@
i dont know ... i tend to TR scum but to this extent ... yikes i really dont know

You do, and its a really really bad habit you have nornor.

Get out of the pockets, I know they're cosy, go get the ice cream instead.

-Butterflea.

[Flea The Magician]

Who wants to bet one of us, Noraa or fire dies tonight?

lmfao i've never been a night 2 nk in my life.

Note to self, N2 nora in a future game.

There's no reason for have preference to furtive.

None. Expect for not wanting to destroy ideal world of instant win.

Simple:
If furtive is town and limmed today, we will lose almost certainly, because there will be push on me again, because "lolhammer". I will lose in this push, unless miracle happen.
If furtive is scum, then okay i quess, but i personally only found strange that i am sit on last place of reads and Umlaut is on prelast, but we doesn't look like partners for furtive. I have no quarantee.


If you believe in team butter build, then you need to vote me first. Just consider what you get on furtive elim and what you get on mine elim, on both results.

"I don't want help to bus" is nonsense reason to direct lim away from me.

Wanna freak out more?
I'm sold on you being a designated bus.
You definitely do have partner equity, Nancy over here schooling me on what to look for in connections and I am sold.

If furtive is scum... you give nothing but "oh no... my stance.... it's broken...."

Flail harder plz.

Butterflies butterflies, whatcha gunna do? Whatcha gunna do when they come for you?

I don't need to build enormous theories.

No, you just need to drop a solve.
Had more than enough time, and players have been reasonably active.
What you got - false enchanter?

How failure logic if that?

If i die and flip scum, he die anyway?

Also, i expected Dunn to flip scum tbh.

Your tryhard is showing.

How failure logic if that?

If i die and flip scum, he die anyway?

Also, i expected Dunn to flip scum tbh.

There is no logical reason for anyone to fall on their sword in this setup as town unless of course in the event a muse outs, which they absolutely shouldn’t. So only logical reason to fall on your sword here is because furtive is your buddy.

No townie has a logical reason to prefer to be limmed over anyone else. Period.

~Nancyfly

I just stated mine, if furtive is town, we plainly lose.

If you're town and you're eliminated, town loses too by the same logic.
Try Hard 2: Try Harder.

If i am scum with furtive, why you resist idea of elimming me first.

Try Hard with a Vengeance.
What difference does it make? Why put your slot in the way of a slipped and compromised slot?

If i am scum with furtive, why you resist idea of elimming me first.

If furtive were to actually flip town - seriously doubt - that would then mean my solve on the two of you being buddies would have to be wrong and I don’t think it is.

~Nancyfly

Well yes.
But i still damn die after.

So...
Furtive flips red, we eliminate you - if you're green we're in YOLO, if you're red town wins.
You flip red, we eliminate furtive - if furtive is green we're in YOLO, if they're red town wins.
And town wins because Umlaut is absolutely the last piece in that puzzle so we chain sweep.

So how is eliminating a town you any better to be done first?

How i save furtive if i die?

There is no valid reason for you to want to die as town, nada, none.

~Nancyfly

I consider preventing instant lose is valid reason to go first.
Considering there's literally 0.1% hope to kill you instead.

Why i should't to try?

If you scumread us and you're town then case us and instead of being a Magikarp be a Gyrados.
Stop flailing and make it clear we're scum and make us blast off again.

See the thing is scum need to kill us tonight. We're too strong a presence in this game with too good a solve.
The problem is, it also incriminates you and Umlaut to remove us and I don't think after today either of you have the audacity or force of will to be able to dismiss a "framed" claim.
Your game is over.

-Butterflea used Hyper Beam

[Flea The Magician]

GG peeps

yeah we went a little too hard near the end I think xD genuinely would've gone for it if we weren't a muse too I think Nancy is the scum finding queen and all credit to the solve goes to her - don't care what she says she pulled most of the solve and the work for it.

[Flea The Magician]

Thing is muses were only informed of one. Me and Nancy were watching the other muses closey and we somehow silently decided to powertown this game. I don't think we would've done anything different if we were VT tbh


Also I had to stop Nancy just outright claiming soooo many times lol

[Flea The Magician]

Your solve may have been slightly aided by your role, tbh, but then again I haven't seen the other games so I'm not familiar with your self-confessed amazing solving capabilities

oh mine are crap, I go on gut most often and catch slips. Even without the knowledge you were scum, your interactions with Enchant were quite sus.

Nancy is a dang legend when she's on the game and ngl I'm well chuffed I got to hydra with her.

[Flea The Magician]

Also Furtive, never ever underestimate Nora Zir an absolute pain to be able to read properly to the point I have to just invert my read most often.
Zir an emotional and charged player, but I don't think ze would out and hardshove D1 as muse with the numbers available.

[Flea The Magician]

Everyone makes a bad play occasionally. You screamed town from early D1 Nora and even with the misflip you were still clear to us.

[Flea The Magician]

Flicking through the Maf thread...
Furtive my game is almost all gut reads, and i like putting pressure on to players who I don't know so I can get a feel for their vibe.

also we called the bus tactic xD

You're pretty good though Furtive, I'm genuinely looking forward to playing with you again.
Scorps criticisms of you are pretty harsh in my opinion and I second Enchants ScumMVP of you.

[Flea The Magician]

No I accept I played badly, I should have pushed Muse reads and muddied the waters. I would have liked slightly more open discussion on the Muse guessing, but Scorpious was pretty set on his guess, despite only playing one day. What can you do

My only thing to you, is play more offensively. Everytime I came at you, be it peaceful, probing or aggressive you were just defensive and you didn't feed back, you didn't create dialog, you didn't bring a discussion.

[Flea The Magician]

Because i am not happy with how this game went.

Curious what you thought you could have done better?

[Flea The Magician]

Not always, there's a lot of different ways to play and you've seen me hit pretty much all of them, I can hyperpost and and I can lurk.
You're an active lurker, which is always going to bring trouble to you and reading through the scumthread is why you became the designated bus. If you didn't respond to me at all when I was shitpushing (because it was shit pushing) it would've given me credence and just reinforced my push.

You look at the spec thread for this and Koba says you're town, because town you efforts more than scum you.

[Flea The Magician]

Thats fair, think you're being a bit hard on yourself but I get that.