Open 848: Chromavalon: A Bouquet of Colors [Game Over]

[butterflies]

I’m kind’ve of upset that Noraa and Titus outed our masonry. :/

[butterflies]

I’m kind’ve of upset that Noraa and Titus outed our masonry. :/

Whoopsie

[butterflies]

apologies it was an accident ;[

It’s okay, I still <3 you both.

but just be more careful in the future.

[butterflies]

Just to show no hard feelings Noraa/Titus, I got this recipe from Shiro, I hope you like it.

[butterflies]

This is going to take some getting used to,

heya nerds!

VOTE: Gamma!

Mwahahah

-butterFlea

[butterflies]

I'm actually going to support implosions post here.

We play smart we potentially dodge a mislim.

anyway am knackered, will post more later.

-butterFlea

[butterflies]

Also, I don’t rlly have the words to express my initial thought rn so I’ll just say furtive’s entrance felt awkward

This bit feels awkward.

And it's my first game with Gamma in a while, which is funny because my GE paranoia has stuck.

Anyway a suspicion, even this early, without a vote sends alarms.


VOTE: Gamma Emerald

This is my first non-Newbie game, I think this setup is magic. To everyone claiming Merlin, I am not aMused.

VOTE: furtiveglance

Gamma did vote.

~ butterDrew

[butterflies]

ISOing both Gamma and umlaut, Gamma sounds a bit better.

VOTE: umlaut

~butterDrew

[butterflies]

ISOing both Gamma and umlaut, Gamma sounds a bit better.

VOTE: umlaut

~butterDrew

Why you consider just two people?

I’m not, I’m not locking in any vote yet. It’s more like who I don’t want to vote for than whom I do.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Hi everyone, I'll read through, give my thoughts on players, and vote tonight when I get home. As for the strategy talk, I read a previous game of this setup and town actually lost the main game, and the mafia wouldn't have guessed the Merlins correctly. Therefore we might have slightly more wiggle room in terms of Muses influencing the game or even claiming outright than you might expect. The main thing is to ensure we at least win the main game.

The “main” game? We’re only playing ONE game. Are you actually suggesting that they claim outright? I think I’m starting to understand why some people aren’t vibing with your posts.


So how did town lose the game? Are you planning to explain this?

This post isn’t making any sense, anyone else think this?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[butterflies]

Hi everyone, I'll read through, give my thoughts on players, and vote tonight when I get home. As for the strategy talk, I read a previous game of this setup and town actually lost the main game, and the mafia wouldn't have guessed the Merlins correctly. Therefore we might have slightly more wiggle room in terms of Muses influencing the game or even claiming outright than you might expect. The main thing is to ensure we at least win the main game.

This post also flagged to me so I'm supporting the vote.

We have 2 miselimimations, there's no wiggle room there.

Each game is different with different factors - the players being a big variable shift. Me, I can't guess guess crap. I'd have no chance so I would be pushing the primary goal, not the secondary.

Which makes me wonder about you, first game out of newbies means players like me you're going to have no clue how to read or interpret, given I'm also in a hydra with the lovely Nancy that's going to make this slot a nightmare for you to solve regardless as hydras can be tricky to read.

So, I'm going to throw you a bone here. Forget the previous game, as this one is a different game with different players with different strengths.
Do you have any early suspicions?
Do you have any early town reads?
If this is your first time against a hydra, which one of us do you think will be easier to read?

- £!3 ButterFlea

[butterflies]

So of everyone who’s posted thus far, three slots have pinged me: Gamma, Umlaut and most recently furtive. Of the three, I have extensive meta on Gamma and when I compare his posting here with uPick!Anything for example, he feels different. In that game, he wasn’t really trying to solve and was basically pretty spammy.

Umlaut: Still not a fan but calling Gamma out for the unconfirmed vote, makes me a bit hesitant.

furtive: Unlike Titus and Noraa, I don’t and still don’t see anything particularly pinging about his opening post but the second one otoh, I find somewhat concerning. He discusses “strategy” but the only strategy I glean from his post is that Merlin(S) plural claiming is somehow beneficial for town because in a previous incarnation of this setup, town lost despite scum having no clue who the Merlins were. Just because town lost in a previous installment of this game, despite scum not correctly guessing the Merlins, doesn’t mean that more than one Merlin claiming is a good strategy. I also find the whole “main” game emphasis thing kind’ve odd.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

So of everyone who’s posted thus far, three slots have pinged me: Gamma, Umlaut and most recently furtive. Of the three, I have extensive meta on Gamma and when I compare his posting here with uPick!Anything for example, he feels different. In that game, he wasn’t really trying to solve and was basically pretty spammy.

Umlaut: Still not a fan but calling Gamma out for the unconfirmed vote, makes me a bit hesitant.

VOTE: butterflies

This "read" on me is nonsense. It's made when I have all of four one-line posts, three of which are RVS shitposts and the fourth of which is the one you like (calling out Gamma). Tell me what exactly you are not a fan of.

Until now, you hadn’t really done anything. I don’t see why you scumread me for that. And I wasn’t even the only one who felt that way, so I don’t understand what about my post bothers you in particular. I’m not even currently voting you.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

NANCYFLY AND BUTTERFLEA AHHHHHHH
im sorry but AHHHH why is that just so good

Spoiler:

Post-game, Flea and I are going in to business as chocolateers.

[butterflies]

Spoiler:

Actually flying chocolateers, to be more specific.

[butterflies]

Until now, you hadn’t really done anything. I don’t see why you scumread me for that. And I wasn’t even the only one who felt that way, so I don’t understand what about my post bothers you in particular. I’m not even currently voting you.
~Nancyfly

I don't care if you're voting me, I care if you're making up reasons. Galron just said I "pinged [them]" which is whatever, people ping people all the time, but you voted me in 63 which is really silly as Enchant pointed out ("if one of these exactly two people is scum I'd bet it's Umlaut" is... I don't even know what that is) and then said that my one good posts is literally the one post with content I had made.

I stand by that vote att I made it but fwiw, 72 I like.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Hi everyone, I'll read through, give my thoughts on players, and vote tonight when I get home. As for the strategy talk, I read a previous game of this setup and town actually lost the main game, and the mafia wouldn't have guessed the Merlins correctly. Therefore we might have slightly more wiggle room in terms of Muses influencing the game or even claiming outright than you might expect. The main thing is to ensure we at least win the main game.

This post also flagged to me so I'm supporting the vote.

We have 2 miselimimations, there's no wiggle room there.

Each game is different with different factors - the players being a big variable shift. Me, I can't guess guess crap. I'd have no chance so I would be pushing the primary goal, not the secondary.

[...]

- £!3 ButterFlea

I think you might have misunderstood furtive here. The "wiggle room" they've mentioned is about the Muses potentially giving clues about their identities in order to increase the Town's chance to catch scum. So defending against the primary goal in expense of the secondary, not the other way around.

Did you read the OP? Assuming we kill all three scum, they can still win if they correctly identify all three Merlins.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Hi everyone, I'll read through, give my thoughts on players, and vote tonight when I get home. As for the strategy talk, I read a previous game of this setup and town actually lost the main game, and the mafia wouldn't have guessed the Merlins correctly. Therefore we might have slightly more wiggle room in terms of Muses influencing the game or even claiming outright than you might expect. The main thing is to ensure we at least win the main game.

This post also flagged to me so I'm supporting the vote.

We have 2 miselimimations, there's no wiggle room there.

Each game is different with different factors - the players being a big variable shift. Me, I can't guess guess crap. I'd have no chance so I would be pushing the primary goal, not the secondary.

[...]

- £!3 ButterFlea

I think you might have misunderstood furtive here. The "wiggle room" they've mentioned is about the Muses potentially giving clues about their identities in order to increase the Town's chance to catch scum. So defending against the primary goal in expense of the secondary, not the other way around.

Absolutely freaking not. No chance nuh-uh OH HEEEEYLLLLL NAW.

no.

Muses do not out, muses do not hint. Muses know who they are as per the sample pms, Muses do what they gotta do. It's their job t make their cases, make their pushes, and if we fuck up and flip one of them we push their target.

[butterflies]

Hi everyone, I'll read through, give my thoughts on players, and vote tonight when I get home. As for the strategy talk, I read a previous game of this setup and town actually lost the main game, and the mafia wouldn't have guessed the Merlins correctly. Therefore we might have slightly more wiggle room in terms of Muses influencing the game or even claiming outright than you might expect. The main thing is to ensure we at least win the main game.

This post also flagged to me so I'm supporting the vote.

We have 2 miselimimations, there's no wiggle room there.

Each game is different with different factors - the players being a big variable shift. Me, I can't guess guess crap. I'd have no chance so I would be pushing the primary goal, not the secondary.

[...]

- £!3 ButterFlea

I think you might have misunderstood furtive here. The "wiggle room" they've mentioned is about the Muses potentially giving clues about their identities in order to increase the Town's chance to catch scum. So defending against the primary goal in expense of the secondary, not the other way around.

Absolutely freaking not. No chance nuh-uh OH HEEEEYLLLLL NAW.

no.

Muses do not out, muses do not hint. Muses know who they are as per the sample pms, Muses do what they gotta do. It's their job t make their cases, make their pushes, and if we fuck up and flip one of them we push their target.

Only alignments are revealed on flip, not their roles or colors. How would we know to push their targets?

Because the muses know the scumteam between them. They know their targets individually.
The reason they don't claim is they know their colour block. Red muse knows red block. so just as the scum are going to be watching carefully, town need to as well.

Honestly I would hope the muses don't just dive in headfirst on to their targets and frankly if any muse has already voted their target they're getting a post-game glare from me.

-ButterFlea

[butterflies]

At the beginning of the game,

the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which

. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

This is why muses revealing is so bad, scum already knows that in that group of 5, 3 are Merlins, so they start the game with a 60% chance of correctly guessing who the muses are. So they might not know who the Merlins are but they 100% know who they’re not. So scum start the game knowing that 3/8 players are vts.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Good morning.

I don't see why that post from furtive is suspicious.

Agree with this, I found it more awkward-person awkward than scum awkward

A lot of mech talk from implo, none of it bad per se but personally I plan to just play Mafia and plan to win that way instead of over worrying about who is a muse. Why can't the muses just push good cases on scum without having to say who they are?

Furt, would like you to clarify what you mean by suggesting muses claim outright, because obviously they shouldn't all do that unless I am misunderstanding something.

I think both this post, plus Umlaut’s pushback on me gives me town pings, because the perspective of not wanting muses to reveal is protown, so I’m happy with where my vote is currently.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: Noraa

Here's a second one to help

Why is Noraa scum Dunn? Please enlighten me.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

but you won't because you are scum aren't you?

Idk if he is or not but that vote on you was scummy as all fuck.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

@mod, can we please get a VC. It’s really hard to play without updated votecoubts.:/

[butterflies]

At the beginning of the game,

the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which

. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

This is why muses revealing is so bad, scum already knows that in that group of 5, 3 are Merlins, so they start the game with a 60% chance of correctly guessing who the muses are. So they might not know who the Merlins are but they 100% know who they’re not. So scum start the game knowing that 3/8 players are vts.

~Nancyfly

I believe that this part of the setup makes it disadvantageous for us to get a claim and then back out of the elimination.

Even if we are running up a muse, it may be disadvantageous for them to claim before death, because their pairing is not otherwise revealed, and can still be guessed incorrectly by mafia.

For someone I know who excels at mech, this is an extremely questionable take.

You’re essentially arguing that all 3 muses should go to their graves with unouted guilties - if they’re being run up. It is true that at least one muse can never out this due to secondary scum wincon but if hypothetically one of the muse’s target’s was a consensus townread and as such had virtually no chance of ever getting miselimed.

That actually happened in my last game. The only player who could have checked that player got NK’d and both due to role and excellent scum theatre, everyone had this player as a lock clear, so we lost due to that. Also your perspective in referencing specifically a muse getting run up and sitting on their guilty just doesn’t sit right with me.

And now you vote Noraa for what reasons even?

See Umlaut’s vote on me was wrong but not in anyway scummy + their take on the gamestate read protown.

Noraa pushing people as scumreads is nai. Ze does that every game but zer post read like it came from a townie mindset to me.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i think dunn is scum. hard to say at this point since there's only one post.
if its true though, my dearest merlin friend, i'll do your job for you. fret not and be a nice little vt

VOTE: Noraa

Here's a second one to help

Am I the only one not understanding this thought progression?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: ProgoWoshua
I wanna go into that furtive defense a bit more. Regardless of furtive's alignment that feels very ulterior motive-y

I now have 3 slots majorly pinging me, which rarely happens for me on D1. All involve questionable posts about muses.

Noraa sussed furtive who’s now voting zir but at least his vote didn’t look scummy but then Dunn jumps on zir too and you have progo wk furtive. Can this all be some crazy coincidence?

My hesitation wrt to progo is that his muse posts weren’t necessarily bad but his defence of furtive is like you said, “weirdchamp$.

I’m really trying to decide if I should stay on furtive, sheep on progo or Dunn who had not one but two posts I absolutely hated.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

At the beginning of the game,

the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which

. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

This is why muses revealing is so bad, scum already knows that in that group of 5, 3 are Merlins, so they start the game with a 60% chance of correctly guessing who the muses are. So they might not know who the Merlins are but they 100% know who they’re not. So scum start the game knowing that 3/8 players are vts.

~Nancyfly

I believe that this part of the setup makes it disadvantageous for us to get a claim and then back out of the elimination.

Even if we are running up a muse, it may be disadvantageous for them to claim before death, because their pairing is not otherwise revealed, and can still be guessed incorrectly by mafia.

For someone I know who excels at mech, this is an extremely questionable take.

You’re essentially arguing that all 3 muses should go to their graves with unouted guilties - if they’re being run up. It is true that at least one muse can never out this due to secondary scum wincon but if hypothetically one of the muse’s target’s was a consensus townread and as such had virtually no chance of ever getting miselimed.

That actually happened in my last game. The only player who could have checked that player got NK’d and both due to role and excellent scum theatre, everyone had this player as a lock clear, so we lost due to that. Also your perspective in referencing specifically a muse getting run up and sitting on their guilty just doesn’t sit right with me.

And now you vote Noraa for what reasons even?

See Umlaut’s vote on me was wrong but not in anyway scummy + their take on the gamestate read protown.

Noraa pushing people as scumreads is nai. Ze does that every game but zer post read like it came from a townie mindset to me.

~Nancyfly

only one muse should ever out
chance scum gets it right if 1 muse outs is 1/12
chance they get it right if 2 out is 1/3
and it's probably even easier for them to figure out that 1/3 than a 1/12 where they have to get two right out of 4 names

At the beginning of the game, the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

It’s actually a lot higher than 1/12. Scum already know that 3/5 players on their no n1 kill list are all the muses + 2 vts, so they know that whomever is not on that list is vt.

[butterflies]

I’m saying regardless if one muse outs or not, scum has a 60% chance of getting it right. I don’t see why a muse necessarily has to do that but Dunn said basically that they should take their guilty to the grave, which makes it extremely easy for scum to push anyone on that list of 5, if they assume that the muse will allow themselves to get run up anf take their guilty to their grave.

His post bothers me because it makes it much easier to push muses/muse guesses and the specific focus on muses getting run up, is the part that I find so concerning. It’s the perspective that makes me wonder.

[butterflies]

I'm leaning town on Noraa because something about zir tone strikes me townish and also I think zir attitude of keeping muses as secret as possible is more helpful to town than scum

Want to clarify this more because whether muses refusing to ever out is

itself

necessarily best for town is up for debate and I think there are pros and cons, but I think the natural inclination for scum is to try and fish for information, not to insist information be kept secret.

I’m saying regardless if one muse outs or not, scum has a 60% chance of getting it right. I don’t see why a muse necessarily has to do that but Dunn said basically that they should take their guilty to the grave, which makes it extremely easy for scum to push anyone on that list of 5, if they assume that the muse will allow themselves to get run up anf take their guilty to their grave.

His post bothers me because it makes it much easier to push muses/muse guesses and the specific focus on muses getting run up, is the part that I find so concerning. It’s the perspective that makes me wonder.

your statistics seem off
scum has to guess colors, not just who is a muse

Dunn wanted muses kept secret but in the context of them getting run up, so I just don’t understand why he would mention that specifically, because running up a possible muse, is obviously the best move for scum, so long as they die with their guilty.

[butterflies]

Oh and math has never been my strong suit.

[butterflies]

VOTE: ProgoWoshua
I wanna go into that furtive defense a bit more. Regardless of furtive's alignment that feels very ulterior motive-y

Two people made a big deal of an obvious joke. This didn't sit well with me.

@titus, @gamma

furtive's intro was just a joke, right? What's so suspicious about it?

His entrance didn't feel like a joke and he didn't claim it was.

Uhh...

This is my first non-Newbie game, I think this setup is magic. To everyone claiming Merlin, I am not aMused.

Titus, jokingly, claimed Merlin. This game reflavors Merlins as Muses. The post ends with a pun on "Muse".

How is this not a joke?

Hi everyone, I'll read through, give my thoughts on players, and vote tonight when I get home. As for the strategy talk, I read a previous game of this setup and town actually lost the main game, and the mafia wouldn't have guessed the Merlins correctly. Therefore we might have slightly more wiggle room in terms of Muses influencing the game or even claiming outright than you might expect. The main thing is to ensure we at least win the main game.

This post also flagged to me so I'm supporting the vote.

We have 2 miselimimations, there's no wiggle room there.

Each game is different with different factors - the players being a big variable shift. Me, I can't guess guess crap. I'd have no chance so I would be pushing the primary goal, not the secondary.

[...]

- £!3 ButterFlea

I think you might have misunderstood furtive here. The "wiggle room" they've mentioned is about the Muses potentially giving clues about their identities in order to increase the Town's chance to catch scum. So defending against the primary goal in expense of the secondary, not the other way around.

Why are you assuming 95 is what people are concerned with and not 82?

[butterflies]

Muses can use discretion

If it's somebody who won't get eliminated otherwise, sure, reveal, but keep in mind that there will probably only be 1 muse claiming a target this game. I do think it is disadvantageous for muses to always claim their target when being run up

Okay that’s a lot better then. So perhaps I misunderstood your intent then. Obviously at least one can never claim, that’s definite and probably only one should.

[butterflies]

VOTE: Noraa

Here's a second one to help

Why is Noraa scum Dunn? Please enlighten me.

~Nancyfly

I liked the read on noraa in post 102

I didn't like the response in post 104

I also didn't like the posturing in post 107

And then after my vote, I don't like the reaction in posts 108, 109, 110, which are also all made within 2 minutes of each other yet 8 hours after I posted

None of those posts are scum indicative for Noraa and I’d probably react badly to your vote too if I was zir. Was 104 where ze expressed zir initial possible scumreaad on you because I didn’t see it as scummy. The way ze expressed it read that townie to me and until you just recently clarified, I too thought you might be scum for that opening post.

[butterflies]

Butterflea and Momma bear, huddle around huddle around
Imagine ... we're in our lovely little hydra
and all of a sudden noraa is spamming
DUNN IS SCUM DUNN IS SCUM DUNN IS SCUM

right now i would say i am at 80% certainty that dunn is scum. the reason it isn't 90% is because this playerlist doesn't look like one that would let 100% of town dunn shine through on day 1.

Maybe? You have read him correctly in both versus and Happy Face, where most people adamantly disagreed with your read but what does concern me is that he should know that none of the reasons he’s given for that read are scum indicative and he’s not re-evaluating that read. despite both Umlaut and myself disagreeing with it.

I think that there is likely at least one scum in progo, Dunn and furtive, maybe more, so that’s where I’m at right now. Gun to head, my spidey senses make me think that the three of them might possibly be connected in some way and based on the takes both progo and furtive had wrt the muses - which was not protown, probably not merlins. I feel better about Dunn’s opening post but he’s just too confident in his scumread on you which I know aren’t good reasons to sr you. And I dislike that he’s not even questioning that read.

Dunn sheeps furtive and takes exception to progo push - and I recall he was a lot more careful to push srs in Happy Face and his reasoning in that game while wrong did make sense.

You could be right because he seems to be playing here more like in Royalty here. He treated town!Pooky and town!Hopkirk differently in that, than he treated town!Titus in Happy Face.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Well, if Dunn is scum, he’d be the hardest one to catch and the most lethal scum.

[butterflies]

VOTE: Dunn
This is probably the right move. I guess this looks omgus-y but shrug it is what it is.

Like furtive SRs me for a RVS post, which i suppose is fair since I SRed them off a RVS post. It's just that SRing someone for their SR on your RVS post seems kind of ridiculous to me, but honestly, sure whatever i guess.
But dunn out here pretending that SR is actually good is kind of like mmmmmmmmmmm very sus. In general, dunn's vibes are also off this game so probscum off that alone.

I have a fairly good track record reading dunn. In fact I haven't read Dunn wrong in a while now, so much that i would say an incorrect read on dunn is basically the equivalent of a guilty on myself.

I'm still uncertain of this read because dunn hasnt posted anything that is like 100% scum or 100% town. But I've given this enough thought, and I think this is where my head is at right now.

/wordy wordy wordiness ahh

You have read him correctly in both versus and Happy Face, where most people adamantly disagreed with your read

I also read him correctly in my past two games. Flea was in one of them!

VOTE: Dunn

Two players you’re particularly good at reading are Dunn and Math and that’s how Happy Face was different. You and Titus had completely opposite reads on him in that game.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: ProgoWoshua
I wanna go into that furtive defense a bit more. Regardless of furtive's alignment that feels very ulterior motive-y

I also agree with Gamma. Idk, I could go for either. \_o_/

furtive’s posting improved but both him and progo had really bad takes.

Dunn, why are you sheeping a player who had a completely different perspective on muses than you did? I find that really odd.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Two players you’re particularly good at reading are Dunn and Math

Appreciate your trust in me nancy <333
im not 100% on this dunn read atm. chances are that it flips scum anyways but i do wish to be 100% certain before shoving the wagon hard.

Noraa is so obviously town here. I don’t think ze ever makes this kind of post as scum. I’m circling between Dunn, Progo and furtive.

If it weren’t for his terrible vote on you, I’d probably be voting one of the other two but his push on you is just really really bad.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: Progo

meh

His defence of furtive did ping me especially 82, I think it was.

[butterflies]

Yeah, it’s the whole lack of re-evaluating but Idk? But you’re having doubts on Dunn right? So that makes me less confident.

But it really does bother me that he hasn’t yet.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

@Progo, can you give us some reads? Why aren’t you trying to solve?

[butterflies]

i've had double doubts every time i've been right on dunn. it's nothing strange. im just a paranoid person.

I honestly can’t tell with Dunn. In Royalty I knew he was obvscum straight out of the gate but I couldn’t convince anyone. Here I honestly can’t tell.

I’m not opposed but Progo not trying to make any reads is very concerning. Talking about mech is fine but as long as you also make reads.

He hasn’t given any yet. - other than defending furtive.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Why am I supposed to be reevaluating my read?

Two people have disagreed with that read and you’re not re-accessing it. It’s like with both you and furtive you’re fine to voting zir. I think it’s pretty damned obvious Noraa isn’t getting limed today, so it’s definitely a safe vote.

I would expect town!you to be less confident on that vote because Noraa sounds pretty dalned townie to me.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I will say that I'm not especially a fan of furtive dropping a wall post then peaceing out. Sure, maybe they're busy IRL, but I feel like town after "blowing the game wide open" should be excited, interested in talking about their reads, convincing people, interacting, seeing people's reactions, and so on. Scum after dropping a wall post might feel like they've done their job and can coast.

I agree with you, there’s definitely a lamisty quality about his posting. Plus there’s his really questionable comments about the muses which Progo was also initially onboard with.

I can see connections with him, Progo and Dunn. Progo wks furtive, Dunn objects to Progo wagon, sheeps furtive on Noraa and has 0 interest in reacessing that read, eventhough two people have disagreed with it.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Two pages have been added since I went to sleep. I don't think I 'peaced out' for more than about 15 hours. I'll make a few points here. Firstly, butterflies is scumreading both Progo and me for comments about strategy. This is inherently both redundant and pointless, because 1) all we said was that Muses should influence the game rather than leaving us 8v3 Mountainous (which is exactly what implosion said in 55, and 2) supposing I was mafia, or Progo was mafia (which they might well be), why would we make (according to butterflies) posts that aren't protown? I appreciate the attempts to solve, but this strategy talk is really NAI for me. I only read alignment into it when people aren't giving enough analysis. The TLDR on that one is scumreading players for strategy talk is not valid. Find new reasons to scumread me, because a scumcase based on my strategic Musings is very weak indeed.

I've also received some pushback for my scumread on Noraa. I don't give players +town for tunneling (as ze seem to be doing with Dunnstral). As I explained in my readslist, I don't see how Dunnstral could be anything more than Null with how little they've posted. Experienced scum know that poeple give towncredit for pushing. I think what is harder to do as mafia is give reads on the entire player list, which is what I'd like to see from zir. butterflies says in 174 that Noraa is obviously not getting eliminated today. Why not? and why does that make zir a 'safe vote'?

Who gave you pushback on Noraa vote? I gave Dunn pushback on Noraa.

VOTE: Dunn

[butterflies]

At the beginning of the game,

the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which

. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

This is why muses revealing is so bad, scum already knows that in that group of 5, 3 are Merlins, so they start the game with a 60% chance of correctly guessing who the muses are. So they might not know who the Merlins are but they 100% know who they’re not. So scum start the game knowing that 3/8 players are vts.

~Nancyfly

I believe that this part of the setup makes it disadvantageous for us to get a claim and then back out of the elimination.

Even if we are running up a muse, it may be disadvantageous for them to claim before death, because their pairing is not otherwise revealed, and can still be guessed incorrectly by mafia.

VOTE: Noraa

Here's a second one to help

Omigod, omigod, how did I miss this? I’m so dumb. Dunn is clearly tming Noraa!town with these posts.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

At the beginning of the game, the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

For those of you who aren’t seeing what I am, scum gets a list of 5 townies that they can’t kill N1. Dunn’s opening post is about that a muse shouldn’t claim even if they get run up. They’re next post is an extremely scummy vote on Noraa.

Conclusion: Noraa is > than rand one of the 5 townies on the N1 no kill list.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

And those posts couldn't possibly be unrelated?

It’s a very interesting perspective slip to have your first post involving running up a possible muse and in the next an extremely suspicious vote which is also a highly suspicious sheep.

Why are both you and Dunn so keen on pushing Noraa? Why is ze scum? And well at least your vote didn’t look that awful but you’re far more focused on defending Dunn than engaging mine and Umlaut’s townread on Noraa. Why is that?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i think dunn is scum. hard to say at this point since there's only one post.
if its true though, my dearest merlin friend, i'll do your job for you. fret not and be a nice little vt

@furtive, this was Noraa’s post BEFORE he voted zir. In what world do you get tunnel from this?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i think dunn is scum. hard to say at this point since there's only one post.
if its true though, my dearest merlin friend, i'll do your job for you. fret not and be a nice little vt

@furtive, this was Noraa’s post BEFORE he voted zir. In what world do you get tunnel from this?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i think dunn is scum. hard to say at this point since there's only one post.
if its true though, my dearest merlin friend, i'll do your job for you. fret not and be a nice little vt

@furtive, this was Noraa’s post BEFORE he voted zir. In what world do you get tunnel from this?

~Nancyfly

Who is zir? I can't see any player with this nick.

Noraa, it’s not a nick, it’s zir pronouns.

[butterflies]

The butterflea returns to read up <3 Long weekend was long.

[butterflies]

butterflies: I townread butterflies. They seem to be actively trying to find mafia, and they explain their thought process behind each vote/suspicion well, which you don't always get here, not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. It's +town that they focus on scumreads rather than townreads. I think I will use this opportunity to answer their questions posed in 70 - thanks for the bone Flea! 1) Read down to find out my suspicions 2) Again, this post has the answers. 3) I haven't played with a hydra before. I now understand that ButterDrew is the same as NancyFly - please keep the names consistent. I haven't really discerned between the two of you - you haven't disagreed on anything yet. That is to say you are just as easy to read as each other because you have been one entity so far. The kind of things I use to scumhunt aren't really be determined by personality - I try not to look at tone or playstyle but rather game analysis/voting.

This is our first hydra together in fairness and anyone who has seen me in a hydra will tell you I usually sign with some variation of the character I'm RPing or Flea.

Oh and math has never been my strong suit.

5 players in 3 roles to guess. It's 1:60(5*4*3) possibilities without colours, it's something like 1:360 (5*3)*(4*2)*3 if I've brained this right currently.
One muse claimed with target makes that 1:12(4*3) without colours, 1:24(4*2)*3 with colours.
Muses absolutely should never claim in my opinon and should play smart.

Now my brain hurts. *grumble grumble*

Muses can use discretion

If it's somebody who won't get eliminated otherwise, sure, reveal, but keep in mind that there will probably only be 1 muse claiming a target this game. I do think it is disadvantageous for muses to always claim their target when being run up

And no they absolutely should not as the Block will know the Muses colour when revealed. We need to keep numbers high to keep scum chances low.

Butterflea and Momma bear, huddle around huddle around
Imagine ... we're in our lovely little hydra
and all of a sudden noraa is spamming
DUNN IS SCUM DUNN IS SCUM DUNN IS SCUM

right now i would say i am at 80% certainty that dunn is scum. the reason it isn't 90% is because this playerlist doesn't look like one that would let 100% of town dunn shine through on day 1.

I mean your read rate at the moment is definitely impressive....

Two pages have been added since I went to sleep. I don't think I 'peaced out' for more than about 15 hours. I'll make a few points here. Firstly, butterflies is scumreading both Progo and me for comments about strategy. This is inherently both redundant and pointless, because 1) all we said was that Muses should influence the game rather than leaving us 8v3 Mountainous (which is exactly what implosion said in 55, and 2) supposing I was mafia, or Progo was mafia (which they might well be), why would we make (according to butterflies) posts that aren't protown? I appreciate the attempts to solve, but this strategy talk is really NAI for me. I only read alignment into it when people aren't giving enough analysis. The TLDR on that one is scumreading players for strategy talk is not valid. Find new reasons to scumread me, because a scumcase based on my strategic Musings is very weak indeed.

I've also received some pushback for my scumread on Noraa. I don't give players +town for tunneling (as ze seem to be doing with Dunnstral). As I explained in my readslist, I don't see how Dunnstral could be anything more than Null with how little they've posted. Experienced scum know that poeple give towncredit for pushing. I think what is harder to do as mafia is give reads on the entire player list, which is what I'd like to see from zir. butterflies says in 174 that Noraa is obviously not getting eliminated today. Why not? and why does that make zir a 'safe vote'?

Nora is absolutely town and both heads here are in sync on that.
Experienced scum know their reads lists need to be convincing, in my case if you ask me for a reads list I tell you to dance naked under the full moons light.
Thing is inexperienced scum might tend to do "townie behaviours" and try to frame them appropriately.

I'm in full agreement with Nancy's findings and nothing more to add to what she's said so far beyond whats above. <3

ButterFlea is going to Flutterby and will be back later

*sigh*

[butterflies]

At the beginning of the game, the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

For those of you who aren’t seeing what I am, scum gets a list of 5 townies that they can’t kill N1. Dunn’s opening post is about that a muse shouldn’t claim even if they get run up. They’re next post is an extremely scummy vote on Noraa.

Conclusion: Noraa is > than rand one of the 5 townies on the N1 no kill list.

~Nancyfly

This feels premature without a Dunn flip, and possibly circular if you are using it to support a case that Dunn is scum.

Dunn’s opening post specifically referencing about a muse getting run up seemed like weird flex coming from town and in the very next post, makes an extremely scummy vote on Noraa. Also, I hard tr zir and zit BoP on Dunn is very impressive. The combination of both of those posts pinged me when you incorporate the mechanics. I guess we’ll find out post game if I am right about either/both but my gut is telling me I probably am.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I will unvote Noraa for now, my scumread could have been to do with playstyle. I am strongly opposed to the Progo vote, and would prefer Titus/Umlaut to Dunnstral if possible. Thoughts?

Why is either scum?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Progo has seemed pretty straightforward and open, I had them as null but I think I'll change it to a townread. Titus has been coasting a bit and and I still don't like 89. As for Umlaut, they omgussed butterflies but have now backed down, and seem fairly passive.

Why is his omguss scummy? And I disagree, I think he’s been really townie. It was only very early in the game that I doubts on him and Gamma. I don’t anymore.

I don’t recall a Titus scumgame ever where she coasted.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Hi everyone, I'll read through, give my thoughts on players, and vote tonight when I get home. As for the strategy talk, I read a previous game of this setup and town actually lost the main game, and the mafia wouldn't have guessed the Merlins correctly. Therefore we might have slightly more wiggle room in terms of Muses influencing the game or even claiming outright than you might expect. The main thing is to ensure we at least win the main game.

This post also flagged to me so I'm supporting the vote.

We have 2 miselimimations, there's no wiggle room there.

Each game is different with different factors - the players being a big variable shift. Me, I can't guess guess crap. I'd have no chance so I would be pushing the primary goal, not the secondary.

[...]

- £!3 ButterFlea

I think you might have misunderstood furtive here. The "wiggle room" they've mentioned is about the Muses potentially giving clues about their identities in order to increase the Town's chance to catch scum. So defending against the primary goal in expense of the secondary, not the other way around.

What about this post?

It seems to me that both Progo and furtive prefer to focus on furtive’s entrance post and not this one.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Lol dunn is almost definitely scum based on this game state.

Go on

1000% certain. Flea and titus please help me push this. If I am wrong, FLASHWAGON me tomorrow. I guarantee this so fuckign hard

Lol, what am I chopped liver? I’m already voting him and agreeing with you. Dunn is being robotic in his responses. He is making no effort to sort you.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

They problem isn’t what they’re pointing out, it’s how

I think your case is really good but I prefer Dunn today but none of your very compelling arguments have been lost on me.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Dunn/furtive/?
the game is basically solved~

Progo?

That’s my best guess for the scumteam.

All three seem to be circle jerking each other.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

it would be hilarious if the team was dunn/furtive/progo

It would be even more hillarious if we win this game on d3.

Btw, great minds and all. <3

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Lol, what am I chopped liver?

</3333333 no no no it's just that titus and flea were in my control hydra. i feel like they know my ability to sort dunn the best but you also do have some experience with that!!!! I will include you in the battle cries from now on!!!

It’s okay sweetie, I’m not offended.

Flea actually told me in our hydra chat how impressive your Dunn BoP is, which is also my experience and it’s really cool how we’re mindmelding this game.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

It would be even more hillarious if we win this game on d3.

that would genuinely be hilarious

I’m cautiously optimistic that if we stick to the PoE in 232, that could very possibly happen. I just have more reasons to tr everyone else in the playerlist over those 3.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

They clearly just pointed out the pun in my entrance. People really read into the weirdest things.

Every post is readable to the right person....

1000% certain. Flea and titus please help me push this. If I am wrong, FLASHWAGON me tomorrow. I guarantee this so fuckign hard

Mama's must help their baby bears.

The Three Bears return and Butterflies!!

VOTE: dunnstral

I stand with Noraa

AHHH dunn is at e-2 the paranoia jitters are starting to CONSUME me. every time agh every time. i always do this but i just need to take a DEEP BREATH and believe IN MYSELF.
ok phew we're good

And yeah this is dunn is scum confirmed.

Dunn/furtive/?
the game is basically solved~

Progo?

That’s my best guess for the scumteam.

All three seem to be circle jerking each other.

~Nancyfly

Don't tell me you're a reddit user....

Just to give some more serious thoughts on the game, I think implosion's recent posts have been quite towny. I previoualy had them null/scum because I thought their tone was too neutral/informational. I'm finding this game quite difficult to play at the moment. Obviously it's really important to listen to your townreads, but I know I have an important role to play as well.

Just to recap my updated reads, butrerflies, Gamma, implosion, Noraa I think are town. I still townlean Progo just based on gut read. I think Dunnstral, Enchant and Galron are in the null range (the latter for being inactive). I think Titus and Umlaut are my biggest scumreads.

Whats wrong with being a redditor?

Talk to me about your read on the Moonlogic Queen, Titus?

I have played a fair few games with Dunn and can say I'm astonished that anyone thinks they can read him with 100% accuracy so quickly

Noraa has been surprisingly accurate though...

I want to understand the Dunnstral case because it seems like a lot of people are in enough agreement to put him at L-1 but I just... don't. It seems like it's Noraa saying "trust me folks Dunn is absolutely scum, I know scum!Dunn when I see it" and everyone else going along with it. I mean Dunn could be scum just like anyone who isn't towntelling could be scum, but I don't see anything to make me pick them out of the lineup. What am I missing?

Really.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I believe that was hammer, if you weren't aware. Why hammer so fast?

Enchants a known lolhammerer.

We had 10 days left......I really hope this flips red

It will, I know my nornor.

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

It's ironic that butterflies was the one harping on about reevaluating earlier

What makes you think we're not?

Me and Nancy are talking quite a lot and discussing our reads and we're in sync honestly it scares me lol

I can't read you, at all, ever. Nora can. And I'm reasonably confident in my ability to read zem and same for Nancy. We're agreed on Nora is currently town. When you flip red I have some Ice Cream for zem.

-Butterflea.

[butterflies]

Games open for nearly 3 hours and nobody posts?
wow.

Slow game.

Anyway.

Gamma Flip disproves one of our theories, but means our reads are decent so far.

NORAA. You have given me the big sads. And I think you're the kind of person to try and do that as scum to secure a lim.
Momma Bear you seem a little... distant. You know that gives me the heebies. Do i need to be worried about you?

[butterflies]

-ButterFlea

Like it wasn't obvious

.. also 2 hours not 3.

[butterflies]

Gamma Flip disproves one of our theories, but means our reads are decent so far.

no it doesnt.
disproving one of your theories means something was wrong in your reads.
you thought i was town and dunn was scum. from the look of it, you don't currently think im town meaning you "misread" dunn and i. how does any of this mean your reads are decent?

No, both Butterflea and myself haven’t changed our read on you. You are still one of our top town. If we’re reacessing our opinions about on any slot, you’re not one of them.

~Nancyflea

[butterflies]

I get the fact I see distant, I'll try to lead a bit more today.

VOTE: implosion

reasons?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Gamma Flip disproves one of our theories, but means our reads are decent so far.

no it doesnt.
disproving one of your theories means something was wrong in your reads.
you thought i was town and dunn was scum. from the look of it, you don't currently think im town meaning you "misread" dunn and i. how does any of this mean your reads are decent?

No, both Butterflea and myself haven’t changed our read on you. You are still one of our top town. If we’re reacessing our opinions about on any slot, you’re not one of them.

~Nancyflea

eta: Sorry Noraa, misread Butterflea’s post, I know that’s not what fae thought in our discord chat. Last time we talked, we were in sync about that.

[butterflies]

progos dunn vote was BLEUAGH but im nervous to lead a wagon again so uh someone else make a case or something

I think there's a real chance progo+enchant are scum and enchant told progo to vote in the scum topic so that enchant could quickhammer because enchant has a history of quickhammering. It's a 3:8 setup and scum can afford to do BS like that, plus half of their job is to just suss out which merlin knows which scum.

I really despise this site's increasing tolerance of pointless quickhammers and will happily policy Enchant today. If you want to vote them because you have some other reason to think they're scum then that's great, so long as you vote them.

VOTE: Enchant

Butterflea says he typically lolhammers. I think Progo’s vote looks worse.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Yes faking a gut read on dunn is incredibly easy for scum me. But in the way that i did it? no.
the only reason im not calling your slot scum for that read right off the bat is just because i know flea has trouble reading me. but if town pooky were here, he'd say i was extremely obvtown

Noraa chill, I thought you were super obvtown out of the gate. Flea is more paranoid. I’m not worried about you. I have other slots I’m way more concerned with.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

acknowledging day start

Why did you vote Umlaut but not revote anyone?

@Titus any reads you’d care to share?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Yes faking a gut read on dunn is incredibly easy for scum me. But in the way that i did it? no.
the only reason im not calling your slot scum for that read right off the bat is just because i know flea has trouble reading me. but if town pooky were here, he'd say i was extremely obvtown

fwiw Noraa, I do believe you'd pull that as scum.

But.

You're right, the emotional undertone and frustration would be wrong.

was more a voicing of thoughts than a read, and as nancy said, we've been in sync with the read on you from the start. You're basically locktown to me currently.


Oh, and we've missed the policy window by a day, live with it now. I'm not throwing this to YOLO because peeps are salty over a known lolhammerer.

- The Paranoid but knowing ButterFlea

[butterflies]

enchant lolhammering is a good reason to policy

What about Progo’s vote? I found his vote really suspicious and Gamma had a very compelling case on Progo defence of furtive being “weirdchamp”.

Had I not voted Dunn, I would have voted Progo.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Butterflea and myself want this.

VOTE: Progo

[butterflies]

er the one before the one just posted

You mean Butterflea’s post?

[butterflies]

i wish pooky was here

i wish pooky was merlins with me. pooky would know exactly what butterflies' alignment is

If Pooky, Mastina and anyone else decent at reading me would tell you, we’re super obvtown here.

[butterflies]

i wish pooky was merlins with me. pooky would know exactly what butterflies' alignment is

What would Pooky tell you about the rest of the playerlist’s alignments, do you think?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i dont like the above post. it feels very very very very strange

ngl I'm having a pretty major psychosis episode (Worst part? The self-awareness.) and everything is strange at the moment.
Even Nancyfly has been a bit O.o! with me ^_^;

Will leave ya with the Nancyfly cause its like 130am and my pit calls for me.

Noraa you know what it is for me to declare a locktown as well. <3

Gnight!

-ButterFlea.

[butterflies]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12866158

This was scum!enchant in a previous game. I’m not particularly keen on limming him today when I have other slots I find more concerning.

Especially when Butterflea keeps telling me his lolhammering is nai.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i wish pooky was merlins with me. pooky would know exactly what butterflies' alignment is

What would Pooky tell you about the rest of the playerlist’s alignments, do you think?

~Nancyfly

no clue but pooky's reads are the best.

Shame. I may or may not have some spicy reads that I’m sitting on for now but those individuals should know I’m watching them very very closely.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i mean hardest to catch, yeah probably.

I am.

@Titus, why did you make this post?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I admit that I have been scummy. Because of that, I find it suspicious how furtive is still on my side after all this time. Definitely feels like they have some ulterior motive.

I'm willing to sheep in the Dunn/Furtive theory.

VOTE: Dunnstral

If this is wrong, you might flashwagon me instead of Noraa, because I doubt my reputation would recover after that.

butterflies, what do you think of this post?

Does a scumProgo outright say they've been scummy?

Hmm . . . so do you think Gamma might have had it backwards then? That it was actually furtive who was possibly wking them?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

ftr i am more convinced on butterflies scum than i am on enchant scum.

Like you were on Dunn you mean? Noraa, I actually thought you were better at reading me. This isn’t how I play scum. But hey keep pushing me, I may possibly live a little longer that way.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

UNVOTE:

for now.

[butterflies]

like i was on dunn? no. i have scumread you pretty much every game. why are you surprised?

Well then are you saying you can’t read me then?

I’m actually not upset because I really don’t want to be nk’d until I’ve got the game fully solved.

And I don’t know why I’m still alive and Gamma isn’t but I don’t expect to make it to endgame.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i can't read you but i scumread you and you aren't going to change it by attacking my read on dunn.

If you can’t read me and scumread me every game, then I honestly have no clue wtf you’re trying to do here.

[butterflies]

And I’m also not attacking your read on Dunn, other than you were also wrong on that one. You seriously ought to be reacessing your reads because chances are you maybe tr someone you possibly shouldn’t.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i didnt have any reads besides dunn. what are you trying to say?

I thought you were tr slots I didn’t understand why but maybe that’s changed? Or I just misunderstood?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

acknowledging day start

Why did you vote Umlaut but not revote anyone?

@Titus any reads you’d care to share?

~Nancyfly

@Galron, can you please answer this? Thanks.

Titus too obviously.

[butterflies]

Vote Count (1.7)

butterflies

[0]

[ELIMINATED]

Dunnstral

[6]

Noraa, Titus, butterflies, Gamma Emerald, ProgoWoshua, Enchant
Enchant

[0]

furtiveglance

[0]

Galron

[0]

Gamma Emerald

[0]

implosion

[0]

Noraa

[1]

Dunnstral
ProgoWoshua

[2]

implosion, Umlaut
Titus

[0]

Umlaut

[1]

Galron

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to eliminate.

Not Voting:

furtiveglance

Night Deadline:

March 31st, 2022, 4:00 PM EST ((expired on 2022-03-31 16:00:00))

Spoiler: Flavor text

Karel Van Camp,

Rare Flowers

(2021)

As paint dried and sun set, the Artist frowned at his canvas. The colors thereupon his revelation were simplistic and bold; direct and powerful. They were also crude, misshapen, sodden. They were supposed to revitalize his mastery of the craft. Instead, they frustrated.

“

What am I doing wrong?

” he pondered. “

Why are these colors eluding me? Where is my inspiration?

”

His Muses were quiet. The Artist set down his brush, and hoped in the morning he would still have the desire to pick it up again.

Dunnstral, aligned with

Town

, has been eliminated.

Night 1 begins. Privately message me if you would like fast night, and night will end early on unanimity.

Someone ought to analyze this - ideally as many people as possible.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

heyo, what's up

Any reads, thoughts on the game?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I believed that Noraa is muse and pushes his knowledge, so i tried to pose as Muse as well by hammer.

I didn't really back off, i tried to imitate Muse who trying to hide. I acknowledge that sometimes people troll.

Also no regrets.

Why did you think Noraa was a muse?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

My hammer didn't harm town, so there's no regrets. Dunn was probably die anyway regardless.

Atleast i tried.

Of course it did. Dunn flipped town. Damn! I wish Flea was still awake.

[butterflies]

guaranteed scum in enchant/implosion/umlaut imo. possibly 2. i scumread umlaut and implosion more, but i could be wrong on that

galron kinda scummy

butterflies kinda scummy, maybe, idk, hydras are hard to read

Why do you scumread umlaut and implosion more than enchant?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

If I’m wrong about enchant then I might have ironically had the correct take d1 for the wrong reason, which would be absolutely wild.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i have a bracket read right now. fairly certain one of butterflies and fireisredsir is scum. unlikely that both are town, impossible that both are scum.

It’s impossible that we’re scum but I thought you just said you tr fireisredsir, so now I’m really confused by this.


~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i guess my main quesiton is just implo why are you placing an e-2 vote after asking us to take things slowly the next day?

annoyance at the quickhammer in this setup mainly tbh.

unvote

I don't understand what Noraa sees as special in fire's catchup post. Their reads are, I mean, fine i guess if Enchant is scum x_x. I also don't see how Noraa is arriving at the exactly one of butterflies/fire thing. Really I have not understood anything about Noraa's thought process in this game, broadly speaking.

I do also agree w fire that galron is kinda scummy. but I also don't think fire has really done enough to dig out of the pit Progo has dug.

You and Noraa have that in common, both of you are confusing the everliving fuck out of me.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

it's like. extremely problematic for this town that literally >1/2 of posts in this thread come from butterflies or Noraa. This setup demands more activity. It's so scumsided without the muses doing things that we can't just let scum lurk it out, because if they do that the muses are going to need to basically out themselves to get anything done. We need to step things up collectively.

I think that could hopefully be avoided if everyone would just give reads. That’s especially important in this particular setup.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i do not think both butterflies and noraa are scum but im kind of doubting both are town. it feels like one is taking advantage of the other and im not sure which direction that energy is going

this read just doesnt come from scum fireisredsir to scum butterfly and me
like if eithe rof me and butterfly is scum, this post doesnt make sense.

it's small but its just not something i see scum doing to distance. it is possible from fireisredsir SCUM and both buttefly and me town. but it just doesnt come from scum fireisredsir to scum butterfly.

Since I already know we’re town, this post does very little to help me parse his slot.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I believed that Noraa is muse and pushes his knowledge, so i tried to pose as Muse as well by hammer.

I didn't really back off, i tried to imitate Muse who trying to hide. I acknowledge that sometimes people troll.

Also no regrets.

Why did you think Noraa was a muse?

~Nancyfly

I realised that if Dunn is on E-1 without my help, it means either it's most likely with Muse help or Mafia help.

I betted on Muses. It failed hilariously.

Oh okay, I think I get it now. I think probably at least one scum on Dunn wagon, possibly two and one or two off. Unless my reads are complete garbage this game, seems highly likely.

Do you agree with this and if so, who is currently your best guess for scum on Dunn wagon and off?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

like if fireisredsir is scum, the scum team is overall, inactive and dying. enchant is scum in this case.
if fireisredsir isnt scum, then scum is in my "townreads" whatever that is

Both you and implosion have said something similar. I’m not sure I follow who both of them must necessarily be aligned?

I mean, it’s possible I guess but it’s unusual for two scum to hammer a townwagon before elo but obviously can’t rule it out. One thing about fire catchup that bothers me is him speculating that us and Noraa can’t both be town, that kind of weirds me out because why can’t we both be town? Explain that @fire.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

guaranteed scum in enchant/implosion/umlaut imo. possibly 2. i scumread umlaut and implosion more, but i could be wrong on that

galron kinda scummy

butterflies kinda scummy, maybe, idk, hydras are hard to read

Why do you scumread umlaut and implosion more than enchant?

~Nancyfly

enchant seems like enchant from what i know of enchant. i don't really have a read on them and idk how to read them, but on the face of things their play has some potential scum motivation. more in the explanation than in the hammer itself

implosion and umlaut i scumread based on play.

umlaut seems like he's mostly poking at other people's cases, and i don't really see much solving from him. i think his play yesterday lines up well with how i would expect scum to play during a day phase where the most active poster is pushing town. the towniest thing he's done is push on butterflies early, but he backed off immediately

implosion 245 just feels really noncommittal in a scummy way, a couple other posts did too. the early mech focus is NAI imo, seems like something he would have done as either alignment. in general he just feels like he's letting other people do the dirty work, and with the way d1 progressed that seems like a position that scum would aim to be in. his case on enchant, though, kinda sold me a little, so that's part of why im considering that i might be wrong here and maybe enchant is scum. i do also like how he called umlaut towny in 105 for pushing on butterflies but... on second thought,

there's no "if butterflies is town" here, so maybe that comes from a tmi perspective? hmm

Explain what you mean here about a “tmi perspective”. Are you suggesting we’re being tmi’d town or scum by this?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I admit that I have been scummy. Because of that, I find it suspicious how furtive is still on my side after all this time. Definitely feels like they have some ulterior motive.

I'm willing to sheep in the Dunn/Furtive theory.

VOTE: Dunnstral

If this is wrong, you might flashwagon me instead of Noraa, because I doubt my reputation would recover after that.

@fire what is your take on your predecessor’s current suspicions on furtive after hard defending him prior to that?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Also @fire other then her vote on implosion that you apparently are mindmelding with, any other reason Titus particularly pings town to you?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Since I already know we’re town, this post does very little to help me parse his slot.

i didnt make that post to help you parse his slot

I realize that but it doesn’t make what I said any less true.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

@fire what is your take on your predecessor’s current suspicions on furtive after hard defending him prior to that?

as in do i agree with him? i can see why he could be paranoid. im not sure on furtive myself. i'd like to engage with him/talk to him when he's here to get a better feel for him

pedit: on titus, no, she's barely done anything

Yes, she is barely solving, unlike in uPick Anything, where I reversed my Gamma read after comparing that game to this one.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Explain what you mean here about a “tmi perspective”. Are you suggesting we’re being tmi’d town or scum by this?

i had the same thought as implosion did, but to me, it came with the caveat of "if butterflies is town". implosion didn't include that. i don't think the statement makes sense in a world where you're scum: why would scum be afraid to push you if you're a scum partner? so the fact that he just said that scum would be hesitant to push you, with no mention of your possible alignment, made me think that could be coming from a perspective of him knowing that you're town

not guaranteed or anything but it's something that caught my eye. and if implosion did flip scum i would be more likely to think you're town as a result

Interesting.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

This isn’t a strong read but I’m thinking fire could be town. I’ve been coming at him pretty hard and they didn’t act weird about it. Scum usually gets weirdly defensive, nervous or frozen when pushed like that but they didn’t.

So, I’m now thinking I like him better than some other slots. The bad news is that I now have a possible PoE of 4 instead of 3, which kind of sucks but I’m hoping after more people post and even better actually give reads, I’ll hopefully be able to narrow it down further. If fire is actually scum, then he’s done a pretty impressive job of making me think otherwise but I’m going to say, I’m not currently worried about them.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

This isn’t a strong read but I’m thinking fire could be town. I’ve been coming at THEM pretty hard and they didn’t act weird about it. Scum usually gets weirdly defensive, nervous or frozen when pushed like that but they didn’t.

So, I’m now thinking I like THEM better than some other slots. The bad news is that I now have a possible PoE of 4 instead of 3, which kind of sucks but I’m hoping after more people post and even better actually give reads, I’ll hopefully be able to narrow it down further. If fire is actually scum, then he’s done a pretty impressive job of making me think otherwise but I’m going to say, I’m not currently worried about them.

~Nancyfly

edited for correct pronouns

[butterflies]

This isn’t a strong read but I’m thinking fire could be town. I’ve been coming at THEM pretty hard and they didn’t act weird about it. Scum usually gets weirdly defensive, nervous or frozen when pushed like that but they didn’t.

So, I’m now thinking I like THEM better than some other slots. The bad news is that I now have a possible PoE of 4 instead of 3, which kind of sucks but I’m hoping after more people post and even better actually give reads, I’ll hopefully be able to narrow it down further. If fire is actually scum, then THEY’VE done a pretty impressive job of making me think otherwise but I’m going to say, I’m not currently worried about them.

~Nancyfly

edited for correct pronouns

Aah! Sorry fire.

[butterflies]

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me.

I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town

. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

I don't think Enchant is town. Where are you getting that I think they're town? Enchant's hammer was bad, their reaction to Dunn's twilight posts was bad for the reasons Noraa has already given, and the excuses they're making today are just wildly implausible (not to mention, as implo said, why even make excuses for doing what you always do as town, unless you have a guilty conscience about it?)

Wait what? Does furtive have an enchant tmi read?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I'll catch up this afternoon/evening.

In Anything uPick, you were doing VCAs on d freaking 1, now it’s d2, where is your d1 VCA?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me.

I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town

. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

I don't think Enchant is town. Where are you getting that I think they're town? Enchant's hammer was bad, their reaction to Dunn's twilight posts was bad for the reasons Noraa has already given, and the excuses they're making today are just wildly implausible (not to mention, as implo said, why even make excuses for doing what you always do as town, unless you have a guilty conscience about it?)

Wait what? Does furtive have an enchant tmi read?

~Nancyfly

What are you accusing me of here? Being mafia I guess, but what tmi?

Policy voting a slot doesn’t necessarily mean that slot is town but unless it’s either extreme or near elo. it’s usually not a good reason to vote someone. So, you have enchant as your strongest sr but you just accused Umlaut of voting someone they think is town?

That’s how it reads to me like you maybe possibly have some tmi read on enchant.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Ok the vote counts are not telling me anything. Reading time.

Not even on d1? How is that even possible?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

guaranteed scum in enchant/implosion/umlaut imo. possibly 2. i scumread umlaut and implosion more, but i could be wrong on that

galron kinda scummy

butterflies kinda scummy, maybe, idk, hydras are hard to read

I don't like butterflies scum, but I am scumreading butterflies and implosion.

Galron is null gtmh scum.

Wtf? Are you sr us or not?

What are your thoughts on d1 VCA?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I'll catch up this afternoon/evening.

In Anything uPick, you were doing VCAs on d freaking 1, now it’s d2, where is your d1 VCA?

~Nancyfly

I was only doing VCA because nagged. Second VCA needs counterwagons, we aren't getting any. I read people based on their associations with others.

Who nagged you in Anything uPick? I thought you loved doing VCAs. When did this change?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Can you explain 449 to me. I still don’t know if you’re sr us or not because you seem to be either on the fence or contradicting yourself about that.

Why did you sr Galron and Implosion and what are your reads on the rest of the playerlist?

On d1, you disliked furtive’s oprning post, has your read on him changed since then?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me. I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

I don't think Enchant is town. Where are you getting that I think they're town? Enchant's hammer was bad, their reaction to Dunn's twilight posts was bad for the reasons Noraa has already given, and the excuses they're making today are just wildly implausible (not to mention, as implo said, why even make excuses for doing what you always do as town, unless you have a guilty conscience about it?)

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me.

I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town

. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

I don't think Enchant is town. Where are you getting that I think they're town? Enchant's hammer was bad, their reaction to Dunn's twilight posts was bad for the reasons Noraa has already given, and the excuses they're making today are just wildly implausible (not to mention, as implo said, why even make excuses for doing what you always do as town, unless you have a guilty conscience about it?)

Wait what? Does furtive have an enchant tmi read?

~Nancyfly

What are you accusing me of here? Being mafia I guess, but what tmi?

Policy voting a slot doesn’t necessarily mean that slot is town but unless it’s either extreme or near elo. it’s usually not a good reason to vote someone. So, you have enchant as your strongest sr but you just accused Umlaut of voting someone they think is town?

That’s how it reads to me like you maybe possibly have some tmi read on enchant.

~Nancyfly

You're not making a lot of sense here. Yes Enchant is my strongest scumread. That doesn't mean I am 100% convinced Enchant is mafia, hence Umlaut (another scumread of mine) voting Enchant for a bad reason (policy voting) gave me pause. I did not accuse of Umlaut of thinking Enchant was town. I accused Umlaut of voting Enchant for a bad reason, as policy voting doesn't take a player's alignment into account.

I have bolded your quote. You said you wouldn’t have policy voted someone you thought was town, implying Umlaut thought enchant is town, now you say that isn’t the case. But you did say that, not that he voted enchant for a “bad reason”.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

guaranteed scum in enchant/implosion/umlaut imo. possibly 2. i scumread umlaut and implosion more, but i could be wrong on that

galron kinda scummy

butterflies kinda scummy, maybe, idk, hydras are hard to read

I don't like butterflies scum, but I am scumreading butterflies and implosion.

Galron is null gtmh scum.

Wtf? Are you sr us or not?

What are your thoughts on d1 VCA?

~Nancyfly

Typo. I am scumreading Enchant and implosion.

So, you’re not sr us then? Does that mean you’re tr us?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me.

I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town

. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

I don't think Enchant is town. Where are you getting that I think they're town? Enchant's hammer was bad, their reaction to Dunn's twilight posts was bad for the reasons Noraa has already given, and the excuses they're making today are just wildly implausible (not to mention, as implo said, why even make excuses for doing what you always do as town, unless you have a guilty conscience about it?)

Wait what? Does furtive have an enchant tmi read?

~Nancyfly

What are you accusing me of here? Being mafia I guess, but what tmi?

Policy voting a slot doesn’t necessarily mean that slot is town but unless it’s either extreme or near elo. it’s usually not a good reason to vote someone. So, you have enchant as your strongest sr but you just accused Umlaut of voting someone they think is town?

That’s how it reads to me like you maybe possibly have some tmi read on enchant.

~Nancyfly

Policy votes are fine, and better sooner than later.

Why are policy votes good and do you have any examples of town!you supporting policy votes?
Why don’t you have any reaction to furtive sr you? Why are you specifically focused on Implosion and Galron?

You haven’t explained a single read this entire game, save furtive’s opening post on d1. You never expressed a single read on Dunn before voting him, where as in Happy Face you relentlessly cased him.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I'll catch up this afternoon/evening.

In Anything uPick, you were doing VCAs on d freaking 1, now it’s d2, where is your d1 VCA?

~Nancyfly

I was only doing VCA because nagged. Second VCA needs counterwagons, we aren't getting any. I read people based on their associations with others.

Who nagged you in Anything uPick? I thought you loved doing VCAs. When did this change?

~Nancyfly

I do love VCA, but I need counters to use it. VCA needs context and other decisions. There was no real counter to Dunn.

You had a main wagon on Dunn and the rest of the playerlist either voting elsewhere or not voting.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

What really perplexes me is that furtive has Titus squarely in their PoE and Titus has expressed no opinion on that.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i mean hardest to catch, yeah probably.

I am.

@Titus, why did you make this post?

~Nancyfly

I would still like an answer to this.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

@furtive, what do you make of Titus having 0 response to your sr on them?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me.

I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town

. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

I don't think Enchant is town. Where are you getting that I think they're town? Enchant's hammer was bad, their reaction to Dunn's twilight posts was bad for the reasons Noraa has already given, and the excuses they're making today are just wildly implausible (not to mention, as implo said, why even make excuses for doing what you always do as town, unless you have a guilty conscience about it?)

Wait what? Does furtive have an enchant tmi read?

~Nancyfly

What are you accusing me of here? Being mafia I guess, but what tmi?

Policy voting a slot doesn’t necessarily mean that slot is town but unless it’s either extreme or near elo. it’s usually not a good reason to vote someone. So, you have enchant as your strongest sr but you just accused Umlaut of voting someone they think is town?

That’s how it reads to me like you maybe possibly have some tmi read on enchant.

~Nancyfly

Policy votes are fine, and better sooner than later.

Why are policy votes good and do you have any examples of town!you supporting policy votes?
Why don’t you have any reaction to furtive sr you? Why are you specifically focused on Implosion and Galron?

You haven’t explained a single read this entire game, save furtive’s opening post on d1. You never expressed a single read on Dunn before voting him, where as in Happy Face you relentlessly cased him.

~Nancyfly

This game is strategically different. It's not as wise for me to give too detailed reads, as I tend to be too direct and could out if I am a Merlin. I need some explanation for my reads though to be readable evidently. I am struggling to find that balance.

How would directly explaining your reads out you as a possible Merlin? If you actually are a Merlin than you’d only have one guilty, so you can still make reads on everyone else. And assuming that this is even true, if you have a guilty on a slot, why can’t you come up with either in game or meta reasons to sr them?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me.

I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town

. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

I don't think Enchant is town. Where are you getting that I think they're town? Enchant's hammer was bad, their reaction to Dunn's twilight posts was bad for the reasons Noraa has already given, and the excuses they're making today are just wildly implausible (not to mention, as implo said, why even make excuses for doing what you always do as town, unless you have a guilty conscience about it?)

Wait what? Does furtive have an enchant tmi read?

~Nancyfly

What are you accusing me of here? Being mafia I guess, but what tmi?

Policy voting a slot doesn’t necessarily mean that slot is town but unless it’s either extreme or near elo. it’s usually not a good reason to vote someone. So, you have enchant as your strongest sr but you just accused Umlaut of voting someone they think is town?

That’s how it reads to me like you maybe possibly have some tmi read on enchant.

~Nancyfly

Policy votes are fine, and better sooner than later.

Why are policy votes good and do you have any examples of town!you supporting policy votes?
Why don’t you have any reaction to furtive sr you? Why are you specifically focused on Implosion and Galron?

You haven’t explained a single read this entire game, save furtive’s opening post on d1. You never expressed a single read on Dunn before voting him, where as in Happy Face you relentlessly cased him.

~Nancyfly

This game is strategically different. It's not as wise for me to give too detailed reads, as I tend to be too direct and could out if I am a Merlin. I need some explanation for my reads though to be readable evidently. I am struggling to find that balance.

guaranteed scum in enchant/implosion/umlaut imo. possibly 2. i scumread umlaut and implosion more, but i could be wrong on that

galron kinda scummy

butterflies kinda scummy, maybe, idk, hydras are hard to read

I don't like butterflies scum, but I am scumreading butterflies and implosion.

Galron is null gtmh scum.

Wtf? Are you sr us or not?

What are your thoughts on d1 VCA?

~Nancyfly

Typo. I am scumreading Enchant and implosion.

Hmm . . . interesting.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

+ butterflies (hydra of Nancy Drew 39 & Flea The Magician) - Town until proven otherwise.
+ Enchant - Scum due to hammer. I don't like slots that cut off the day prior to discussion ending.
+ furtiveglance - I struggle with this slot. I don't like their reads, but I like their activity. It could just be a disagreement on reads given I can be proud. I don't like his scumread on me but nullread on Galron when we've essentially been the same activity wise. Could be a chainsaw.
+ Galron - Gun to my head scum.
+ implosion - I don't like their general attitude towards the thread and blaming others for their mistakes. His response, accurate or not, was to out his beliefs on a Merlin. I don't like how he approaches the thread and is a viable partner with Enchant.
+ Noraa - town
+ fireisredsir ProgoWoshua - A new player I've never seen as scum but I don't know their capabilities. I suspect their good as scum. Only moderate improvement on the slot. By their play lean town though.
+ Titus - me
+ Umlaut - Lean scum. Honestly gut and thread dynsmics. Revisit if furtiveglance is scum.

I don’t actually hate this post.

Fwiw, I was in Penguin Alien’s dance game where Galron was scum and he went out of his way to basically hedge and not make any real reads. His post on Progo made me think he could be town here but idk.

Can you explain how you think enchant and Implosion are s/s?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Titus could possibly be town? Her last post wasn’t bad. I’m so confused now. The only players on this list who have obvtowned are one dead townie and Noraa. :/

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: enchant

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: enchant

~Nancyfly

If enchant is scum, I could also be wrong about Umlaut because enchant jumped on me similarly when I pushed SS in Anything uPick.

Not interested in either a Titus or fire lim today, getting townpings from both now.

[butterflies]

Vote Count (1.7)

butterflies

[0]

[ELIMINATED]

Dunnstral

[6]

Noraa, Titus, butterflies, Gamma Emerald, ProgoWoshua, Enchant
Enchant

[0]

furtiveglance

[0]

Galron

[0]

Gamma Emerald

[0]

implosion

[0]

Noraa

[1]

Dunnstral
ProgoWoshua

[2]

implosion, Umlaut
Titus

[0]

Umlaut

[1]

Galron

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to eliminate.

Not Voting:

furtiveglance

Night Deadline:

March 31st, 2022, 4:00 PM EST ((expired on 2022-03-31 16:00:00))

Spoiler: Flavor text

Karel Van Camp,

Rare Flowers

(2021)

As paint dried and sun set, the Artist frowned at his canvas. The colors thereupon his revelation were simplistic and bold; direct and powerful. They were also crude, misshapen, sodden. They were supposed to revitalize his mastery of the craft. Instead, they frustrated.

“

What am I doing wrong?

” he pondered. “

Why are these colors eluding me? Where is my inspiration?

”

His Muses were quiet. The Artist set down his brush, and hoped in the morning he would still have the desire to pick it up again.

Dunnstral, aligned with

Town

, has been eliminated.

Night 1 begins. Privately message me if you would like fast night, and night will end early on unanimity.

I think there’s one scum on Dunn wagon and if fire is town, which I think they could be, it makes it all the more likely enchant isn’t.

Based on this VC alone, if two scum were offwagon: solve could possibly be enchant/Umlaut/furtive because I think everyone on Dunn wagon is probably town except enchant and enchant getting on my case for voting Umlaut reminds me of him jumping on me in Anything uPick for pushing SS.

Why Umlaut > Implosion? Because if Progo/fire is town and currently leaning that way, then it’s highly unlikely both scum were on him and enchant specifically jumped on me for pushing/voting Umlaut, so that makes me think Umlaut > Implosion.

Galron's reversal on Progo/fire slightly townpings me.

So that leaves furtive by default.

So I currently think enchant/Umlaut/furtive.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

My hammer didn't harm town, so there's no regrets. Dunn was probably die anyway regardless.

Atleast i tried.

I really really hated this post. I think town!you would probably be upset that you hammered a townie. I know I would. You also ended the day early as Titus already pointed out, which deprived us of possible info. So if you’re town, you should have regrets.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Muses making poor job.

Can't blame me for that.

???

What does this mean?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

that was so towny i dont eeven know how to explain how i feel @_@
i dont know ... i tend to TR scum but to this extent ... yikes i really dont know

You do, and its a really really bad habit you have nornor.

Get out of the pockets, I know they're cosy, go get the ice cream instead.

-Butterflea.

[butterflies]

that was so towny i dont eeven know how to explain how i feel @_@
i dont know ... i tend to TR scum but to this extent ... yikes i really dont know

You do, and its a really really bad habit you have nornor.

Get out of the pockets, I know they're cosy, go get the ice cream instead.

-Butterflea.

I don’t think fire is scum and I’ve been rightly or wrongly mindmelding a lot with Noraa reads, except obviously when ze sr us.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I did think Noraa was possibly being pocketed by Titus earlier but I now think she’s town. I think both Titus and fire are, so no evidence of anyone pocketing Noraa based off of my reads.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

ok i like the solving done on the last couple pages. if nora/butterflies/titus are all town, this game is ez

i think 2 or 3 scum are in umlaut/galron/implosion/enchant. if it's 2, which i think is slightly more likely, im really not sure where the 3rd could be. i can see cases for anyone, and would have to re-eval more based on what flips we get.

enchant is prob my least favorite of those 4. id still be willing to vote there, i think, if it comes down to it, but i don't want there to be only 1 wagon today so im going to

VOTE: implosion

Based off of Anything uPick, if enchant is scum, Umlaut is definitely a buddy because he jumped on me for voting/pushing him.

The way that enchant is so chill with his being sr, makes me think he could be a bus, which would make sense if Umlaut is his buddy.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: Umlaut

I still think enchant is scum and he’s likely being bussed.

[butterflies]

I admit that I have been scummy. Because of that, I find it suspicious how furtive is still on my side after all this time. Definitely feels like they have some ulterior motive.

I'm willing to sheep in the Dunn/Furtive theory.

VOTE: Dunnstral

If this is wrong, you might flashwagon me instead of Noraa, because I doubt my reputation would recover after that.

butterflies, what do you think of this post?

Does a scumProgo outright say they've been scummy?

I liked these posts from Galron. It reads slightly townie to me?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: Umlaut

I still think enchant is scum and he’s likely being bussed.

Why vote Enchant if you think he's scum?

I think scum is bussing him and scum has a deep wolf set up for endgame. I unvoted enchant because I don’t want a replay of yesterday. My current best guess at deep wolf is furtive.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

enchant/Umlaut/furtive

Remember this when we die.


~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

(Hi I'm still mid psychosis but I've had a large CBD (not THC) hit so I'm using the bit of fog clearing that I have for this.)

i guess my main quesiton is just implo why are you placing an e-2 vote after asking us to take things slowly the next day?

annoyance at the quickhammer in this setup mainly tbh.

unvote

I don't understand what Noraa sees as special in fire's catchup post. Their reads are, I mean, fine i guess if Enchant is scum x_x. I also don't see how Noraa is arriving at the exactly one of butterflies/fire thing. Really I have not understood anything about Noraa's thought process in this game, broadly speaking.

I do also agree w fire that galron is kinda scummy. but I also don't think fire has really done enough to dig out of the pit Progo has dug.

Same tbh.

it's like. extremely problematic for this town that literally >1/2 of posts in this thread come from butterflies or Noraa. This setup demands more activity. It's so scumsided without the muses doing things that we can't just let scum lurk it out, because if they do that the muses are going to need to basically out themselves to get anything done. We need to step things up collectively.

You're absolutely right. But you should also remember we're two heads though admittedly I've been out of it.

in general he just feels like he's letting other people do the dirty work,

this kind of reads like muse fishing, for hopefully clear reasons. "letting others do the dirty work" is a really, really bad reason to scumread someone in a setup that revolves around town (both muses and VTs) intentionally trying to obfuscate whether they're the ones who are actually doing the dirty work.

I kind of get this vibe from the umlaut read as well; it feels like this criticism could easily be of play that is intentional as town.

gonna need some outside perspective on this. idk how best to play this game format, but i do not think that i am scumreading either of you for behavior that is more likely to come from town than scum, and i do not think that me calling you out for it is in any way fishing. especially since it was in the context of yesterday, in which the only real wagon was on town

Thats a damned good point. I'm going to double check that and Titus mentioned a VC that needs looking at...

i mean hardest to catch, yeah probably.

I am.

@Titus, why did you make this post?

~Nancyfly

I have a reputation for being good at scum when active. I am just better at either alignment when active, especially in later days. You aren't familiar with that unless an alt.

You can be a hard catch, but rn you're doing the thing that worries me.

I'll catch up this afternoon/evening.

In Anything uPick, you were doing VCAs on d freaking 1, now it’s d2, where is your d1 VCA?

~Nancyfly

I was only doing VCA because nagged. Second VCA needs counterwagons, we aren't getting any. I read people based on their associations with others.

Who nagged you in Anything uPick? I thought you loved doing VCAs. When did this change?

~Nancyfly

I do love VCA, but I need counters to use it. VCA needs context and other decisions. There was no real counter to Dunn.

You made note of a votecount, why?

VOTE: Umlaut

I still think enchant is scum and he’s likely being bussed.

Why vote Enchant if you think he's scum?

I think scum is bussing him and scum has a deep wolf set up for endgame. I unvoted enchant because I don’t want a replay of yesterday. My current best guess at deep wolf is furtive.

~Nancyfly

We are both of this opinion.

I have a couple peeps to skim over and I'll make my stand.

we all know this aint going to be pretty if I make a stand.

_Butterflea.

[butterflies]

enchant/Umlaut/furtive

Remember this when we die.


~Nancyfly

I actually agree with Enchant and Umlaut both being scummy. I think Enchant is the best vote today. I can't see Enchant/Umlaut together though. Obviously bussing exists, I just can't see why scum would do it in this setup, in which Town has a lot of information. Mafia scumreading teammates and townreading town seems like very bad strategy. I admit to not having a complete team in the same way that you do, but I think a more realistic solve is Enchant/Titus if scum!Enchant and Umlaut/implosion if town!Enchant. Galron could be scum in either case but I'm not sure on them yet.

I can, enchant jumped on me the same way when I voted/pushed his buddy SS in Anything uPick. Scum!enchant doesn’t jump on me unless I push his buddy. So enchant!scum=Umlaut!scum and vice-versa.

And I also think the entire exchange between the three of you looks like scum theatre.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not mafia. I'll be impressed if you're right about Enchant/Umlaut, but I would warn against relying on meta too much. That's how we quickhammered town yesterday, because of a 'meta read'.

I hate to disappoint you but saying you’re not scum, does absolutely nothing to change my read on you. I am not easily manipulated.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I can, enchant jumped on me the same way when I voted/pushed his buddy SS in Anything uPick. Scum!enchant doesn’t jump on me unless I push his buddy. So enchant!scum=Umlaut!scum and vice-versa.

this logic doesn't really hold up. enchant doing something once as scum doesn't mean that they only do it as scum. and umlaut being scum doesn't necessarily imply enchant scum based on that, either

Meta isn’t perfect but it’s much better than it’s naysayers believe but that’s not my only reason for my current PoE. There’s also VC and I do think enchant is likely being bussed and I have more reasons to tr everyone else on the playerlist more than enchant/Umlaut/furtive.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not mafia. I'll be impressed if you're right about Enchant/Umlaut, but I would warn against relying on meta too much. That's how we quickhammered town yesterday, because of a 'meta read'.

I hate to disappoint you but saying you’re not scum, does absolutely nothing to change my read on you. I am not easily manipulated.

~Nancyfly

Help me understand your read on me. I hope it's not just thinking I seem towny and therefore pinning me as 'the deep wolf'.

I have a freaking huge gutping on you, and my rate on these is pretty damned good. Problem is they can be wrong but any time I ignore them, they're right.

So far, you've done absolutely jack to show me you're town. You're not inactive, but you're not exactly prodding and poking anything either to my memory.

There is absolutely a deepwolf being setup here, in the current thread state it would be foolish not to.

Again, my lucidity is questionable currently so I'm wanting to reinforce things before I commit to them. But I have caused players to rage by catching them out on these gutpings.

And of all the games to get them in... this one would be amazing if its right.

-Psychoactive Butterflea.

[butterflies]

I hate to disappoint you, but I'm not mafia. I'll be impressed if you're right about Enchant/Umlaut, but I would warn against relying on meta too much. That's how we quickhammered town yesterday, because of a 'meta read'.

I hate to disappoint you but saying you’re not scum, does absolutely nothing to change my read on you. I am not easily manipulated.

~Nancyfly

Help me understand your read on me. I hope it's not just thinking I seem towny and therefore pinning me as 'the deep wolf'.

I have a freaking huge gutping on you, and my rate on these is pretty damned good. Problem is they can be wrong but any time I ignore them, they're right.

So far, you've done absolutely jack to show me you're town. You're not inactive, but you're not exactly prodding and poking anything either to my memory.

There is absolutely a deepwolf being setup here

, in the current thread state it would be foolish not to.

Again, my lucidity is questionable currently so I'm wanting to reinforce things before I commit to them. But I have caused players to rage by catching them out on these gutpings.

And of all the games to get them in... this one would be amazing if its right.

-Psychoactive Butterflea.

I'm not entirely sure how one sets up a deepwolf, can you explain the logic? And your insistence on the existence of such a thing does sound a little bit baby pigeons... unless you just mean that mafia will try not to be scumread/voted, which is standard.

Enchant and Umlaut currently look worse than you but based solely off of gut, I’d probably vote you for giving me off the charts used car salesman vibes. Your posting just reads really fake to me.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Fair enough. I hope your feelings change. For what it's worth I townread you as much as I ever have. It's partly the hydra and partly the high frequency posting, but also a gut read. I also get the sense mafia might be townreading you in this game. In my experience there's usually a player everyone kind of collectively agrees is town. I think if you're mafia you probably just deserve the win for the amount of effort you've put in. I just wanted to explain my TR in case you think I have an unjustified townread on you even though you scumread me.

It seems to be extremely important to you that I tr you, because you’re trying awfully hard to change my mind. Of course, mafia is tr me, mafia already know I’m town. Like you keep saying all these really strange things.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Fair enough. I hope your feelings change. For what it's worth I townread you as much as I ever have. It's partly the hydra and partly the high frequency posting, but also a gut read.

I also get the sense mafia might be townreading you in this game

. In my experience there's usually a player everyone kind of collectively agrees is town. I think if you're mafia you probably just deserve the win for the amount of effort you've put in. I just wanted to explain my TR in case you think I have an unjustified townread on you even though you scumread me.

I kept thinking about the bolded and then it occurred to me that furtive wasn’t townreading me, he already knows I’m town. He has made it abundantly clear I’m already his strongest townread, so why keep telling me that? It’s overkill. He has a tmi on me and thinks that telling me he trs me ad nauseum will make me tr him.

VOTE: furtive

The bolded reads like a tmi slip.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Fair enough. I hope your feelings change. For what it's worth I townread you as much as I ever have. It's partly the hydra and partly the high frequency posting, but also a gut read. I also get the sense mafia might be townreading you in this game. In my experience there's usually a player everyone kind of collectively agrees is town. I think if you're mafia you probably just deserve the win for the amount of effort you've put in. I just wanted to explain my TR in case you think I have an unjustified townread on you even though you scumread me.

Effort and frequency should not be AI.

Mafia will townread us because frankly Nancy is scary af when shes right. Same for me when I decide to lock on a read. Honestly hate to blow my own horn but Nancy's Lawful Chaos with my True Chaos should send many an alarm bell ringing... unless peeps are aware my lucidity is in question... even then Nancy's game is still impressive.

Honesty, your explanation for a townread is a bad one. But, I've seen worse. The problem is your over explanation and over enforcement of it.

We're past "Hey I TR you" and we're in the "I TR you plz plz plz plz plz tr me" territory and it's pinging me up more and more.

Thread preview shows nancys vote is on you, I'm fully there on it now.

As for deepwolfing, there's a few ways it can go. At the moment? Enchants the fall peep who gives the others towncred we reckon.

-ButterFlea

[butterflies]

If we’re right and we die tonight, please remember 513.

I feel that we’re being positioned to join Gamma tonight.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Spoiler: Sing to The Phantom of the Opera - video inside to help

Nancy

In sleep they sang to me, in text he came.
That voice which calls to me, and types our name.
And do I glare again, for now we find.
By the wolves scared decree,
We die tonight.

Flea

Sing once again with us, our strange duet.
Our power over this, grows stronger yet.
And though you turn from us, you glance behind!
The Butterflies Hydra,
There in your mind.

Nancy

Those who have seen your form
Will stand and fight.
I am the force, stood here.

Flea

(With me behind)

Both

Our spirit and our reads,
In one combined!
The Butterflies Hydra standing there
You cannot hide!

[butterflies]

Ok, I'm finally back home and ready to blow this game wide open. This post will serve as reads on everyone (10 other players!), and the next post will cover strategy/a previous game I read/confusion.

butterflies

: I townread butterflies. They seem to be actively trying to find mafia, and they explain their thought process behind each vote/suspicion well, which you don't always get here, not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. It's +town that they focus on scumreads rather than townreads. I think I will use this opportunity to answer their questions posed in 70 - thanks for the bone Flea! 1) Read down to find out my suspicions 2) Again, this post has the answers. 3) I haven't played with a hydra before. I now understand that ButterDrew is the same as NancyFly - please keep the names consistent. I haven't really discerned between the two of you - you haven't disagreed on anything yet. That is to say you are just as easy to read as each other because you have been one entity so far. The kind of things I use to scumhunt aren't really be determined by personality - I try not to look at tone or playstyle but rather game analysis/voting.

Galron

: Again, only a few posts, but they are actively voting and seem to be scumhunting which earns them a tentative townlean.

Gamma Emerald

: Again a low frequency poster, but I like the frankness and direct analytical thought. Townlean

Spoiler:

Dunnstral

: 1 post so no read. Their post was strategy talk rather than analysis - not alignment indicative.

Enchant

: In the null range for me with so few posts. I'd like to see more analysis. My thinking with post count is that it doesn't determine alignment by any means, unless you are below a certain post threshold i.e. extremely low posting is scum indicative. But it's day 1 so we shall see.

ProgoWoshua

: Almost no analysis - the one exception is defending my first post as a joke. I'll have to say no read here.

implosion

: Guilty of giving information rather than analysis. Their one contribution reads-wise seems to be a townlean on me. Despite giving a lot of text and theory, I don't know who they think are scum and they seem to be looking busy rather than actually thinking about the playerlist. Null/scumlean.

Titus

: 89 is just bizarre. How did you not think my first post was a joke? Did you miss the pun? I was serious that I like the setup, yeah. I wasn't serious that I wasn't amused. I was amused by other people's entrances and made a joke about them. This apparent scumread on me is so baseless that it might be too risky for scum to do, as scum would probably be more careful and have more coherent reasoning. That said, I think Titus wanted an easy read and chose me, so they are a scumlean for now.

Umlaut

: I don't like the OMGUS on butterflies. Defending themself is one thing, but how does that correlate with an apparent scumread on butterflies? Although their tone is quite aggressive which is sometimes +town, I don't really like looking at tone so it's a scumlean for now.

Noraa

: Probably my top pick to be mafia. 49 is +scum for 1) giving a vague explanation for suspecting me and 2) the joke about the confirm thing seems to walk back/dismiss their own scumread of me. Beyond this one post, they have spent more time arguing about strategy than their reads (similar to implosion).

VOTE: Noraa

Very insightful catch @fire. Here’s the original post and based off this, maybe he intended to put Gamma second? Which makes me wonder why Gamma died over us.

Btw that composition masterpiece was made by Butterflea who forgot to sign.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

At the beginning of the game, the Mafia Goons are given a list of 5 town, including the 3 Merlins and 2 random Vanilla Townies. They will not know which is which. The Mafia cannot nightkill any of these 5 players on the first night.

Gamma was obviously not on that list but if we die tonight and furtive is scum here, extremely high odds, we were.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Just to give some more serious thoughts on the game, I think implosion's recent posts have been quite towny. I previoualy had them null/scum because I thought their tone was too neutral/informational. I'm finding this game quite difficult to play at the moment. Obviously it's really important to listen to your townreads, but I know I have an important role to play as well.

Just to recap my updated reads, butrerflies, Gamma, implosion, Noraa I think are town. I still townlean Progo just based on gut read. I think Dunnstral, Enchant and Galron are in the null range (the latter for being inactive). I think Titus and Umlaut are my biggest scumreads.

When did your read on Galron change from second highest town to null?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I admit that I have been scummy. Because of that, I find it suspicious how furtive is still on my side after all this time. Definitely feels like they have some ulterior motive.

The duplication of the phrase "ulterior motive" suggests to me that Progo and Gamma are not scum together; scum!Progo would be hyper-conscious of their buddy's wording and not want to imitate it.

Pedit: oh ffs

This post from Umlaut sticks out to me because it was furtive Progo was referencing not Gamma here, so why no comment on furtive?

I mean I get the “ulterior motive” thing but it’s odd that Umlaut posts this but says nothing about Progo’s suspicion on furtive.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Current reads:

Spoiler:

butterflies

: I reassessed both butterflies and Noraa after that Dunnstral flip, but I've landed town on both. It's not just the high post count, but both players are either playing incredibly transparently or faking a level of transparency that should be impossible to fake.

Noraa

: fireisredsir suggested in 380 that it's unlikely both butterflies and Noraa are town. I had doubts about Noraa yesterday, but ze seem more town than ever after being so wrong. I understand if that doesn't seem logical, but zir doubting in the twilight seemed genuine to me.

fireisredsir

: Progo was null/town but fire has quickly become a strong townread - 380 and 411 are full of analysis which is great. They agree with my scumread on Umlaut and I agree with their take on Enchant which I will explain below.

implosion

: I like the vote on Enchant but not much else beyond that. 288 is too vague, 'maybe Galron or Titus' feels unsubstantiated. They make a lot of posts which are easy for scum to make - 289 is LAMIST. That said I would rather not eliminate implosion as they could become more town for me after some flips.

Galron

: Coasty like me. Not enough for me to get a read on yet.

Titus

:

Voted Dunnstral yesterday with no explanation. Voted implosion today with no explanation. No analysis all game but unlike Galron, I get scummy vibes from Titus. I don't like the day 1 focus on Muses/wifom and she sussed me for a joke in my first post. I think I can tell when other town suspect me, and this is not it. A red flip wouldn't surprise me at all, and I can now see an Enchant/Titus pair after she 1) failed to mention the lolhammer yesterday and 2)voted implosion who later voted Enchant.

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me. I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

Spoiler:

Enchant

: Hammered a town, then had some very awkward twilight chat. Not good. Other players have mentioned that 'lolhammering' is part of Enchant's meta, but like fireisredsir said in 411, her play seems scum-motivated to me. I'm slightly wary of voting for Enchant as implosion and Umlaut have started the vote quite early today, and they are null and scum respectively for me. However, individually Enchant is my biggest scumread.

If furtive is scum, Titus is being positioned as an enchant buddy. This despite having Umlaut as a consistent scumread.

The fact that he references Titus voting Implosion makes me think if he’s scum, he’s possibly spewing Implosion town here?

So, if I’m right on my solve, I think enchant flips scum and furtive pushes Titus as his buddy despite having a consistent scumread on Umlaut who tried to earlier shade Progro for sussing furtive.


~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

enchant, furtive, Umlaut

I think this is very likely the team and we win with this solve.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Enchant is now at E-2 and Noraa is V/LA until Monday. Who wants to bet one of us, Noraa or fire dies tonight? I’m sure that speeding up the designated nk - probably us - has nothing whatsoever to do with the speed of this wagon.

Why I’m not voting Enchant despite having him in my PoE? Because I don’t want to help Umlaut and furtive bus, because I want as much time as possible to convince town on my solve, so I don’t due in vain.

One Enchant is hammered, I can’t do that.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

VOTE: Enchant

What do you think of my entire solve? Why help scum likely bus?

But most importantly, why don’t you want to wait for Noraa who’s on V/LA until Monday to rush this wagon?

And I would think you wouldn’t want to rush this vote with furtive, positioning you with Enchant?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I don't want to rush today but in case people missed my intent to vote Enchant I will vote her now

VOTE: Enchant

Any reason for this?

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

We shouldn’t rush this day until people have a chance to solve. We likely help scum bus, obvtown gets whacked and Noraa doesn’t even get a chance to weigh in first? Will the world end if we wait for Noraa to post first?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I don't want to rush today

but in case people missed my intent to vote Enchant I will vote her now

VOTE: Enchant

Nah putting a slot at E - 2 when a pretty obvious town player just requested V/LA until Monday is definitely not “rushing”.



~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

We can afford to wait until at least Monday for Noraa to catch up, can’t we?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I don't want to rush today but in case people missed my intent to vote Enchant I will vote her now

VOTE: Enchant

VOTE: furtive

Congrats, you just became my #1 scumread for putting the wagon at E - 2 after I pushed you.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I just yawned and you seems to build some theories and teams, even not seeing what i will flip. And you already try to lim people instead, because they bussing me?

I don't know, how i supposed to approach that. I have some idea where it comes from though.

You have a problem with not being the lim? Since furtive put you at. E - 2 pretty much immediately after ze went V/LA until Monday - right after I hardpushed him, I’d say that’s definitely super suss.

He tried to hard manipulating me into townreading him and when that failed spectacularly, he tries to suddenly rush the day, despite claiming to the contrary.

Does that exactly scream town to anyone?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Furtive’s entire progression on me is hella weird. He was practically almost trying to bribe me with a lock townread to get me to tr him, after consistently having me as his #1 tr already and now that I pushed him, he’s suddenly in an extreme hurry to rush the day, despite claiming the contrary.

Maybe it’s just common sense and not a “hero solve”?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Furtive’s entire progression on me is hella weird. He was practically almost trying to bribe me with a lock townread to get me to tr him, after consistently having me as his #1 tr already and now that I pushed him, he’s suddenly in an extreme hurry to rush the day, despite claiming the contrary.

Maybe it’s just common sense and not a “hero solve”?

~Nancyfly

This 'solve' seems like a bit of a fixation. I'm in no rush to end the day. I voted for my scumread as have several others. You seem to be making up reasons to vote me. Do as you please, I think we as a town will make the right call regardless. You're by no means the first to incorrectly scumread me - see Newbie 2088 for instance - but I must say you're one of the most abrasive.

You aren’t going to guilt, shame, bribe or in any way, shape or form, manipulate me into changing my read on you. There are 5 votes needed, so what was the urgency in putting Enchant at E - 2, right after Noraa requested a V/LA until Monday?

My case has actually verifiable receipts and is bssed on solid reasoning. So I am your #1 tr and you accuse me of making things up? What possible motive would I have? Are you now going to change your tr on me, the one that reads way more like a tmi, just because I’m pushing you and you don’t like it?

Your baseless discredit of all my valid arguments, just cements my sr on you.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Also I really dont understand why butterflies has been shading the enchant wagon since forever. like i suppose i can understand townreading enchant but to this extent is a little strange to me. perhaps it comes from town. shrug honestly.
the main thing is that im not a fan of furtive's reesponses but honestly anyone's reaction to nancy's tunnel is gonna look scummy so its like .. MEH.
i'll follow up on this stuff after i have time to fully read up

Not the ENTIRE enchant wagon, only 2/3 of it and if you’ve been reading my posts, nowhere did I say I thought Enchant was town. What I did say is that I thought he was > rand likely a bus.

I think the scumteam is furtive, Enchant, Umlaut.

And I don’t want ANY of those 3 to get anwhere near Elo. If game doesn’t end after all 3 are eliminated, then take a look at Titus/Galron/Imposion I guess but I think I’ve > rand got the correct solve here.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Noraa, it’s kind’ve frustrating that you would doubt our reads because “anyone” on the reciving end of a “Nancy tunnel” would look scummy. No they absolutely wouldn’t. If I let’s say tunnelled fire, I think I’d be the one here looking scummy. If someone I’m tunnelling looks scummy, maybe seriously consider that’s because maybe they likely ARE scum?

[butterflies]

Also I really dont understand why butterflies has been shading the enchant wagon since forever. like i suppose i can understand townreading enchant but to this extent is a little strange to me. perhaps it comes from town. shrug honestly.
the main thing is that im not a fan of furtive's reesponses but honestly anyone's reaction to nancy's tunnel is gonna look scummy so its like .. MEH.
i'll follow up on this stuff after i have time to fully read up

Not the ENTIRE enchant wagon, only 2/3 of it and if you’ve been reading my posts, nowhere did I say I thought Enchant was town. What I did say is that I thought he was > rand likely a bus.

I think the scumteam is furtive, Enchant, Umlaut.

And I don’t want ANY of those 3 to get anwhere near Elo. If game doesn’t end after all 3 are eliminated, then take a look at Titus/Galron/Imposion I guess but I think I’ve > rand got the correct solve here.

~Nancyfly

Next day is elo.

Hi.

I didn’t realize, we absolutely cannot rush this day and everyine needs to make a readslist.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Nornor we've BOTH been on the recieving ends of Nancy tunnels and survived.

And it's a lucid Nancy with my approval behind her or a vaguely lucid flea making wild accusations and logic I can only follow at the time I throw it.

I mean I'm game to wake up the old Flea meta and ISORip our suspects :p

[butterflies]

Nornor we've BOTH been on the recieving ends of Nancy tunnels and survived.

And it's a lucid Nancy with my approval behind her or a vaguely lucid flea making wild accusations and logic I can only follow at the time I throw it.

I mean I'm game to wake up the old Flea meta and ISORip our suspects :p

+1

I didn’t pull the PoE of furtive, Umlaut, Enchant out of my ass. I have analyzed the playerlist and this game from multiple angles, including interactions and readslists and it all points to that being > rand chance the most probable scumteam.

That said, they way furtive has and continues to react to my push is extremely higher > rand chance of them being scum in this game. I can be just as insightful as Pooky. I caught ducking in Pokemon, Kitty in Market, and pushed Bell in Happy Face. And I also correctly caught scum SS in several games. As for Flea, they correctly nailed scum!Alisae in Market and fae are 100% in synch with my solve.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Us being town is beyond obvious. Us having an extremely high chance of being right is what actually needs to be.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Nornor we've BOTH been on the recieving ends of Nancy tunnels and survived.

And it's a lucid Nancy with my approval behind her or a vaguely lucid flea making wild accusations and logic I can only follow at the time I throw it.

I mean I'm game to wake up the old Flea meta and ISORip our suspects :p

+1

I didn’t pull the PoE of furtive, Umlaut, Enchant out of my ass. I have analyzed the playerlist and this game from multiple angles, including interactions and readslists and it all points to that being > rand chance the most probable scumteam.

That said, they way furtive has and continues to react to my push is extremely higher > rand chance of them being scum in this game. I can be just as insightful as Pooky. I caught ducking in Pokemon, Kitty in Market, and pushed Bell in Happy Face. And I also correctly caught scum SS in several games. As for Flea, they correctly nailed scum!Alisae in Market and fae are 100% in synch with my solve.

~Nancyfly

Adding on to this, if I get a gut hit like this its often right.
I've hit Alisae to the point I got told to never play with eir again, I've hit Gamma with it, and I hit NANCY with it as MHTP.
When I've ignored it I've regretted it.

-Butterflea

Nornor I backed you up on Dunn, you know my gut is good

[butterflies]

[fireisredsir, butterflies] has scum
[implosion, umlaut] has scum

How are your reads seriously this off?

What scumgame ever have you ever seen me play like this?

Umlaut is in my PoE along with furtive and Enchant. I’m okay with limming any of those 3.

I’m not opposed to Implosion but I don’t think he makes a lot of sense as a furtive buddy or an Enchant buddy for that matter and I see associatives with both furtive and Enchant with Umlaut. I’m not interested in limming outside of

furtive, Umlaut, Enchant

today.

I would really also love to know why you have me pitted against fire who is one of my top towns?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

i dont remember calling you scum in that post

[fireisredsir, butterflies] has scum
[implosion, umlaut] has scum

You’re saying that one of us/fire is scum, are you not? Which I totally don’t get.

Can you - and everyone else - ISO me, to understand why I am so confident that furtive, Umlaut, Enchant makes the most sense as the scumteam?

Cuz that would be super.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Can you - and everyone else - ISO me, to understand why I am so confident that furtive, Umlaut, Enchant makes the most sense as the scumteam?

i understand why you believe in it. i think it does make some sense, and maybe you're just right. i kinda think it's unlikely that it's both umlaut and implosion, though, and right now im scumreading implosion more than i am umlaut

i think flipping anyone in galron/implosion/furtive/enchant/umlaut would give us a lot of info tho, and i think >90% chance that all 3 scum are in that group

The reason why I think it’s furtuve/umlaut/enchant, is that furtive was both scumreading and defending Umlaut in his posts and Umlaut never talks about furtive. My scumread on Umlaut increased since he’s seems to be trying to move away from limming Enchant to now prefering Implosion after tr him and this seems to be coinciding with my push on furtive. Umlaut was pretty much gung ho on limming Enchant but now that furtive is in a much weaker position, he suddenly seems to be flipping his reads on both Implosion and Enchant but never once addresses my case on furtive. He just seems to be completely ignoring it, which is really strange.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Current reads:

butterflies

: I reassessed both butterflies and Noraa after that Dunnstral flip, but I've landed town on both. It's not just the high post count, but both players are either playing incredibly transparently or faking a level of transparency that should be impossible to fake.

Noraa

: fireisredsir suggested in 380 that it's unlikely both butterflies and Noraa are town. I had doubts about Noraa yesterday, but ze seem more town than ever after being so wrong. I understand if that doesn't seem logical, but zir doubting in the twilight seemed genuine to me.

fireisredsir

: Progo was null/town but fire has quickly become a strong townread - 380 and 411 are full of analysis which is great. They agree with my scumread on Umlaut and I agree with their take on Enchant which I will explain below.

implosion

: I like the vote on Enchant but not much else beyond that. 288 is too vague, 'maybe Galron or Titus' feels unsubstantiated. They make a lot of posts which are easy for scum to make - 289 is LAMIST. That said I would rather not eliminate implosion as they could become more town for me after some flips.

Galron

: Coasty like me. Not enough for me to get a read on yet.

Titus

: Voted Dunnstral yesterday with no explanation. Voted implosion today with no explanation. No analysis all game but unlike Galron, I get scummy vibes from Titus. I don't like the day 1 focus on Muses/wifom and she sussed me for a joke in my first post. I think I can tell when other town suspect me, and this is not it. A red flip wouldn't surprise me at all, and I can now see an Enchant/Titus pair after she 1) failed to mention the lolhammer yesterday and 2)voted implosion who later voted Enchant.

Umlaut

: 'Policy voting' Enchant pinged me. I wouldn't policy vote someone I thought was town. I also still think omgussing butterflies day 1 was scummy, followed by voting Progo who's slot is now town in my eyes. Seems to be pairing with implosion. I can't see implosion/Umlaut as much as I can see Enchant/Titus, but scum might not openly pair anyway.

Enchant

: Hammered a town, then had some very awkward twilight chat. Not good. Other players have mentioned that 'lolhammering' is part of Enchant's meta, but like fireisredsir said in 411, her play seems scum-motivated to me. I'm slightly wary of voting for Enchant as implosion and Umlaut have started the vote quite early today, and they are null and scum respectively for me. However, individually Enchant is my biggest scumread.

I currently have two theories: Enchant/Titus is my favourite solve, but if Enchant is town I'm looking at Umlaut/implosion. If I had to vote right now I would vote for Enchant, but I want to use more of the day for discussion.

See, look at these posts. Furtive has both Umlaut and Enchant at the bottom of his readslist but [post]455[post], he is pushing Enchant and Titus > Umlaut. This makes me think furtive knows Enchant will flip scum and his positioning that as clearing for Umlaut but - for reasons unexplained - is positioning Titus as a possible Enchant buddy.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

The reason why I think it’s furtuve/umlaut/enchant, is that furtive was both scumreading and defending Umlaut in his posts and Umlaut never talks about furtive. My scumread on Umlaut increased since he’s seems to be trying to move away from limming Enchant to now prefering Implosion after tr him and this seems to be coinciding with my push on furtive. Umlaut was pretty much gung ho on limming Enchant but now that furtive is in a much weaker position, he suddenly seems to be flipping his reads on both Implosion and Enchant but never once addresses my case on furtive. He just seems to be completely ignoring it, which is really strange.

I mean yeah this seems reasonable. I just feel like you're writing Galron off too easily. I feel like he's done some townish and some scummish things, and I just think lurking is a natural thing scum could wind up doing in this gamestate, but if he's just flaked then, well, shrug.

It’s possible Galron could be scum, it’s also possible you could be as well but if furtive is scum, then his reads point to Umlaut and Enchant as being his buddies. Why would he have Umlaut at the bottom of his readslist along with Enchant but position Titus as a possible buddy for Enchant but not Umlaut? He has Umlaut much lower on his list than Titus.

If your main reason for sr Galron is lack of activity, then how is that more damning then the much more obvious associatives between furtive/Umlaut/Enchant?

And Umlaut never comments on furtive but now seems to be pivoting to you but Galron’s read on Progo’s last post, seemed odd to make as scum, since I now strongly tr that slot but he’s definitely fallen off since then but other than lack of activity, I don’t really understand why he’s scummy?

But the main reason is that the associatives between furtive/Umlaut/Enchant are through the freaking roof. 455. How can anyone ignore 455? It screams tmi on Enchant but why would he position Titus - who is higher up on his readslist but not Umlaut - who’s at the bottom?

And why isn’t Umlaut commenting on my furtive read at all? His only take is that I must be town but no opinion at all wrt to my reasons for sr furtive.

Also both are currently voting Enchant and Enchant getting on my case earlier for sr/voting Umlaut, really doesn’t make a lot of sense of they aren’t the same alignment, because that’s exactly what happened in Anything uPick. I sr and hardpused Enchant’s buddy SS and he jumped on me and hard defended SS. That’s why I thought those two were the same alignment. I think if one flips scum, so likely does the other. And this is apart from my other reasons for thinking the 3 of them are all connected.

So, that’s why I’m so confident that furtive/Umlaut/Enchant are all connected. If the associatives between those 3 were less obvious, then sure I’d been open to considering other possibilities like Galron, Titus, you but all the associatives point to those 3 and not Galron/Titus/you.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I admit that I have been scummy. Because of that, I find it suspicious how furtive is still on my side after all this time. Definitely feels like they have some ulterior motive.

I'm willing to sheep in the Dunn/Furtive theory.

VOTE: Dunnstral

If this is wrong, you might flashwagon me instead of Noraa, because I doubt my reputation would recover after that.

butterflies, what do you think of this post?

Does a scumProgo outright say they've been scummy?

I think it was these two posts that made me lean slight town on him but if he’s flaked, then he needs to be either prodded or replaced.

@mod, please prod Galron, it’s been over 4 days now.

[butterflies]

I just as a rule tend not to put any stock in pre-flip associatives, period. Maybe that's unwise in a setup where 3/9 living players are scum but :shrug:.

Normally I’d agree with you but in this case, they’re pretty damned hard to ignore. and I have to look ahead because I think I probably don’t live to d3 or much longer than that, which is the main reason furtive’s read on me pinged me so hard. It just read so unnecessary and over the top. I just want to do as much as I can before I die. Surely you can understand this?

[butterflies]

I mean yeah, I see the logic, I just think that kind of logic is the kind of thing where it can be easy to read into things that aren't actually there. I'm not trying to be critical, and if you die tonight I'll certainly be putting stock in what you're saying, I just don't personally look at games that way.

I mean sure that’s always possible but it’s rare that I am this confident in my solve and I really just think it fits - definitely better than any alternative theories.

Anyway, with any luck, day won’t end before Galron replacement replaces in, so hopefully that slot will become a lot more readable.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

The reason why I think it’s furtuve/umlaut/enchant, is that furtive was both scumreading and defending Umlaut in his posts and Umlaut never talks about furtive. My scumread on Umlaut increased since he’s seems to be trying to move away from limming Enchant to now prefering Implosion after tr him and this seems to be coinciding with my push on furtive. Umlaut was pretty much gung ho on limming Enchant but now that furtive is in a much weaker position, he suddenly seems to be flipping his reads on both Implosion and Enchant but never once addresses my case on furtive. He just seems to be completely ignoring it, which is really strange.

Tell me your case on furtive and I'll address it. My attention has been kind of elsewhere than Mafia lately.

I absolutely have not flipped my read on Enchant and I'll thank you to scumread me for things I am actually doing and not things you just made up.

Furtive has also accused me of that but that isn’t my main reason for sr you. It’s Enchant initially jumping on me for initially voting/sr you, which made me first think there was a connection between you two and based on Anything uPick and the way he jumped on me for pushing and sr/voting his buddy SS in that, it’s unlikely scum!him would do that if you weren’t buddies. So Enchant!scum makes it significantly > rand chance you’re his buddy based on that if he flips xcum. However, it’s a large part due to 455 as well.

Ironically it was fire replacing into the Progo slot that me realize how fake furtive’s posts read to me because both fire and furtive like to make long detailed posts but while I can really see the wheels turing in fire’s head and the townie thought process in his posting, I got the exact opposite sense from furtivre.

Then his unnecessary and way over the top townread on mre, screamed tmi to me plus his seemingly constant attempts to manipulate me into tr him, so furtive having you at the second to bottom of his readslist but then positioning Titus as making more sense as an Enchant buddy, was just straight up weird, if he’s scum here. And I also don’t understand your progression on Implosion, because it seemed you started to sr him, after a lot of people started to vibe with my furtive sr.

But if you want to address my furtive case, just look up my ISO and your response to two posts I made regarding srs on furtive either by me or in another case Progo, you made no comment on it.

In the Progo post, you ignored his suspicions on furtve to focus on him and Gamma and in response to my casing of furtive, you only gave a read on me.


That’s another thing that’s pinging me because fire, Implosion and Titus have all referenced my furtive read, you didn’t until I actually pointed out that you haven’t.

So, do you even have a read on furtive at all or did I somehow miss it?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I am not opposed to any of furtive, Umlaut, Enchant being limmed today, because that is my PoE. I currently find furtive to be the scummiest of the three and if scum, I see very strong associative with the other two. It’s kind’ve disheartening to me that you can’t read me better still, since I’m damned sure, you’re for reasons I can’t begin to understand not seeing how completely out of my scumrange I am in this game. It’s frustrating because you do have meta on me and despite that, still can’t see it.

Spoiler:

At any rate, I would prefer we don’t rush the day, since we’re currently waiting on a replacement and I’d like to get a chance to attempt to read them in case I don’t make it d3.

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

nothing is "unlikely" like anything nancy does is nai period. because i've seen nancy get townread for ridiculous things as scum. nancy's scum range is basically everything you can imagine

[butterflies]

Just out of curiosity Noraa, in like any game ever, are you ever going to be able to read me correctly? Because it’s sad that you need me to be flipped for you to be able to tell I’m town here.

[butterflies]

hmm hmm ok tbh you all should end the day without me because i dont really want to catch up with the thread open. like im just being lazy but still.
i admit i would find butterflies scummy regardless of alignmnet but so much of what they do is just ???
like if you think furtive/enchant/whatever is the scum team 100% which like umm ok but also like why cant we vote out enchant today if thats the case. why must it be furtive today?
anyways i dont feel like catching up right now without any flips. my voice isnt so important that i should be used as an excuse to delay the elimination.
i should also stop paying attention to butterflies posts because they ar ejust so scummy to me i cant even

Sucks to be us, I guess. What happened Nora? you were TRing us at one point weren't you? You know we're both powerful players when we get wind in our sails so you should know this is the kinda thing to expect from us. We backed you up on Dunn, you were happy. Now we're pushing our thing after the miselimination, you got beef. Gimme the breakdown Nora.

i don't think butterflies would feel a need to work this hard to sell their solve if they're scum. like we're 1 mislim from elo, what's the scum motivation there? if enchant is town, the solve falls apart on the flip if that lim goes through. if enchant is scum, then they're bussing and would prob be better served just pushing that through instead of sitting on furtive instead

Good posting. We have a solve, its one we're very much in sync on. We're dying tonight because of it probably.

nothing is "unlikely" like anything nancy does is nai period. because i've seen nancy get townread for ridiculous things as scum. nancy's scum range is basically everything you can imagine

We are truely a deadly hydra in this case then :3

nothing is "unlikely" like anything nancy does is nai period. because i've seen nancy get townread for ridiculous things as scum. nancy's scum range is basically everything you can imagine

if anything she does is nai then why do you scumread her

I love this post. like it's exactly right.

We are two players who can powerwolf, who can openwolf, and who can power solve. We are a triple threat and the fact we're in sync on this game ngl is mind blowing for me.
Scum need a few changes of underwear with us around >:)

-Butterflea

[butterflies]

I really wish Pooky was in this game, he probably more than anyone would understand my solve and realize what I’m seeing. :/

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I want to contribute something but my reads haven't really changed. The one thing I have noticed is implosion giving more analysis recently - why is Galron now a scumread to you more than before? I think they just dipped from the game.

Then hunt for scum instead of just analysing whats here.

-butterflea

[butterflies]

I am hunting - I have given my opinion already. I need flips

You can always hunt. Prod reads, update reads.
What you're doing basically is busywork. Designed to make you look good. I've thrown you a couple bones along this but honestly that newbie smell just ain't right on you.

You need flips for associatives, not in our case because frankly DAAAAAAAAAAMN NANCYS GOOOOOOOOOD. and ngl I fully agree with her having gone over it myself.

You got prodded too meaning you're inactive, are you genuinely that out of avenues to explore that the solution is to idle? Cause the thing is to me your solidifying our solve with your inactivity. You've showed critical thinking and analysis skills above what I'd expect of someone tip-toe-ing out of the newbie queue - which also tells me you have potential to be daaaaamned good.
You've cited a newbie game in your posts here as meta - I'm not a fan of searching out peoples meta I prefer to use live meta, my own experiences of playing with/against someone. Are you telling me if I compare you there to here I'll find someone who starts to slank when apparently out of things to explore?

-Butterflea got lucid and brainpower again.

[butterflies]

Two things, furtive.

Spoiler: Thing one

A stale game state only helps scum. Keep the game moving to show you're town.

Spoiler: Thing two

I am hunting - I have given my opinion already. I need flips

You can always hunt. Prod reads, update reads.
What you're doing basically is busywork. Designed to make you look good. I've thrown you a couple bones along this but honestly that newbie smell just ain't right on you.

You need flips for associatives, not in our case because frankly DAAAAAAAAAAMN NANCYS GOOOOOOOOOD. and ngl I fully agree with her having gone over it myself.

You got prodded too meaning you're inactive, are you genuinely that out of avenues to explore that the solution is to idle? Cause the thing is to me your solidifying our solve with your inactivity. You've showed critical thinking and analysis skills above what I'd expect of someone tip-toe-ing out of the newbie queue - which also tells me you have potential to be daaaaamned good.
You've cited a newbie game in your posts here as meta - I'm not a fan of searching out peoples meta I prefer to use live meta, my own experiences of playing with/against someone. Are you telling me if I compare you there to here I'll find someone who starts to slank when apparently out of things to explore?

-Butterflea got lucid and brainpower again.

I've been in situations like this before. Not much is happening and the game has kind of stalled - I'm actually in the majority being fairly inactive. If I re-read the game a thousand times I don't think I'd have some kind of epiphany. As Town in this setup I'm extra conscious of how I act, and it's also more important than usual to listen to your townreads/consensus. I think we are in a good place with the vote today,

if Enchant happens to flip blue

then it's on them for the hammer.

Setup:

Chromavalon

• There are 3 Mafia Goons (or Painter's Blocks, per the flavor). One is

  Red

  , one is

  Yellow

  , and one is

  Blue

  .

Good slip. Thank you for confirming you and enchant are scum.

Thing two is pretty important btw, everyone should have a lil read of that one.


-Butterflea.

[butterflies]

Two things, furtive.

Spoiler: Thing one

A stale game state only helps scum. Keep the game moving to show you're town.

Spoiler: Thing two

I am hunting - I have given my opinion already. I need flips

You can always hunt. Prod reads, update reads.
What you're doing basically is busywork. Designed to make you look good. I've thrown you a couple bones along this but honestly that newbie smell just ain't right on you.

You need flips for associatives, not in our case because frankly DAAAAAAAAAAMN NANCYS GOOOOOOOOOD. and ngl I fully agree with her having gone over it myself.

You got prodded too meaning you're inactive, are you genuinely that out of avenues to explore that the solution is to idle? Cause the thing is to me your solidifying our solve with your inactivity. You've showed critical thinking and analysis skills above what I'd expect of someone tip-toe-ing out of the newbie queue - which also tells me you have potential to be daaaaamned good.
You've cited a newbie game in your posts here as meta - I'm not a fan of searching out peoples meta I prefer to use live meta, my own experiences of playing with/against someone. Are you telling me if I compare you there to here I'll find someone who starts to slank when apparently out of things to explore?

-Butterflea got lucid and brainpower again.

I've been in situations like this before. Not much is happening and the game has kind of stalled - I'm actually in the majority being fairly inactive. If I re-read the game a thousand times I don't think I'd have some kind of epiphany. As Town in this setup I'm extra conscious of how I act, and it's also more important than usual to listen to your townreads/consensus. I think we are in a good place with the vote today,

if Enchant happens to flip blue

then it's on them for the hammer.

Setup:

Chromavalon

• There are 3 Mafia Goons (or Painter's Blocks, per the flavor). One is

  Red

  , one is

  Yellow

  , and one is

  Blue

  .

Good slip. Thank you for confirming you and enchant are scum.

Thing two is pretty important btw, everyone should have a lil read of that one.


-Butterflea.

Holy fucking shit! furtive just outed Echant as blue paint blocker.

Welp, we can all guess what the next two flips will be now?

Anyone still doubting my solve on Umlaut as the third now?

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

Just bringing this back because I am actually singing this now lol

Spoiler: Sing to The Phantom of the Opera - video inside to help

Nancy

In sleep they sang to me, in text he came.
That voice which calls to me, and types our name.
And do I glare again, for now we find.
By the wolves scared decree,
We die tonight.

Flea

Sing once again with us, our strange duet.
Our power over this, grows stronger yet.
And though you turn from us, you glance behind!
The Butterflies Hydra,
There in your mind.

Nancy

Those who have seen your form
Will stand and fight.
I am the force, stood here.

Flea

(With me behind)

Both

Our spirit and our reads,
In one combined!
The Butterflies Hydra standing there
You cannot hide!

-ButterFlea

[butterflies]

Spoiler:

This is for my awesome hydra partner.

So, our solve was furtive/Enchant/Umlaut and furtive just confiscumed him and Enchant.

Sheep us on d4 on Umlaut for the win. Woot!

~Nancyfly

[butterflies]

I currently have two theories:

Enchant/Titus is my favourite solve, but if Enchant is town I'm looking at Umlaut/implosion

. If I had to vote right now I would vote for Enchant, but I want to use more of the day for discussion.

Remember this post people, Umlaut is definitely the third.

furtive/Enchant/Umlaut

Shame we were wrong on Dunn but we can still win on d4.

~Nancyfly