Micro 1051 | Minimalist Micro Normal | Postgame

[Ircher]

Hello folks.
VOTE: Wallflower

[Ircher]

Honestly I think the VC looks fine, but I agree about linking to posts rather than the user.

[Ircher]

time for my first way too early readlist

Tracer can be town.

[Ircher]

Pocketing attempt? "Ah yes, you are so townie for making reads early game, town!"
Said the scum or what.

What a lazy read!
VOTE: Norwegian

[Ircher]

I evaluated the given reads and determined that the align with a town alignment. It is not the mere act of giving reads, but the content of those reads that matter.

[Ircher]

What's wrong with silly votes Wallflower?

[Ircher]

Ok, so what content was it that was townie?

The color-coding says it all.

[Ircher]

If Tracer is truly Pooky, I don't think that applies. He'd do it for the lols regardless of how it looks.

[Ircher]

Well honestly silly votes are my favourite

@Meg

[Ircher]

Your very casual about casting shade after saying you dislike frivolous votes. You also appear lamisty imo

Also this is buzzword soup.

[Ircher]

No, you should keep going.

[Ircher]

Hello folks. What have I missed?

[Ircher]

Your helpfulness is duly noted.

[Ircher]

ugh i guess this option is more stylish.

I'm a bit concerned that you chose to go with the stylish option here rather than follow your instincts.

REALLY? And yet you said nothing until the pressure was on you?

Gamma Emerald's reactions feel a bit exaggerated, but if I'm being honest, I'm probably town reading the slot rn.

There's dissonance between what you (or maybe I) perceive as scum!play, your awareness of self and said scum!play, and playing with scumsided cause/effect type actions.

This is confusing. Can you clarify with an example?

Back to this.

…what?

What is there not to understand? Tracer gave reads on everyone. I evaluated those reads based on how they aligned with my reads at the time. The end result is that I had a town read on Tracer at least for the time being.

Oh RCE is maybe town huh.

No.

Townie effort.

That's a bad take.

RCE wasn't really under suspicion and seemed to be on the top of many peoples townreads, (although i was still reserved about them) so the fact that they post a big chungus case at that timing seems to be made because of an genuine desire to do so rather than an "Oh shit, i'm getting scumread, need to put in some townie effort quick" reaction. Etc.

Sure, I agree that RCEnigma was not in a position where they needed to post to get town read, but that doesn't exclude the possibility of scum!RCEnigma making the case to drive their agenda (which I in fact believe to be the case here).

I would like to remind everyone that Gamma is still at E-2 and nobody should put him at E-1 lest he make a fast escape via the window.

I want to see if there are things he will do yet.

I feel your concern here is unnecessary. On the contrary, bringing someone to E-1 has the benefit of keeping the game going steadily.

That's a safe assumption anyway.

When can we lim Gamma so I can talk to my scum partner (joke)

This feels a bit forced. Beyond that though, it's kinda townie.

Is there anyone who actually thinks Gamma can be town atp

Yes.

UNVOTE:

All caught up.

You didn't have any thoughts to share from the last several pages?

I do not townread this.

Your bias against me is duly noted (once more).

Scum are RCEnigma and NorwegianBoyEE. I'd say I'm 58% confident this is the case.

[Ircher]

VOTE: NorwegianBoyEE

[Ircher]

Because there wasn't a need. It's clear Wallflower's read is a bit different from yours, and I'll respect that even if I disagree with the read in question. If Wallflower was the first to comment, I would have made a similar "no" comment, but I'm sure you'd accuse me of looking busy if I were to make the same comment about Wallflower's post right after I commented on your post.

[Ircher]

You can keep presuming the worst of me though. It's your hole you're digging.

[Ircher]

I think the worst thing you can do here is follow NorwegianBoyEE. They have and continue to read as scum to me.

[Ircher]

Ircher / S_S primary scumteam suspects.

Smart hasn't given much content to engage with, so it's quite logical I haven't engaged there.
---
I am up for killing RCEnigma, but I'm voting NorwegianBoyEE here out of principle as long as they continue to insist I'm scum here. I have varying town reads on everyone else except Smart who is solid null due to lack of content.

[Ircher]

Not fully yet, but I think I addressed it partially yesterday.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Tracer
OMGUS

[Ircher]

There is no angle here. If I feel motivated to contribute nore, I will.

[Ircher]

Norwegian and RCEnigma remain my top scum reads, but I understand it's unlikely either of them are going to accrue votes here. Smart and Tracer happen to be in my next lowest rung of reads. I already explained Smart. As for Tracer: they really are not doing much. Lots of extravagant showing, but that's about it. Their last post makes it clear they aren't really sharing their true reads; they are throwing out stuff and observing the reactions around them.

[Ircher]

As to Enigma since I haven't expanded too much on that read. The 1-line summary is that the ISO reads as someone going through the motions of scum hunting. Take 212 for instance. It's confusingly worded and hard to parse. I keep reading it, and yet I feel nowhere closer to understanding what RCEnigma actually meant there. Now, you may wonder, "So what? What's the big deal about a hard to parse post?" but in fact, it is a big deal because you cannot engage with an unparseable argument! Indeed, it is the perfect way to look busy while not actually doing stuff. Now, to be fair, RCEnigma did gave an elaboration in 227, but that post also has issues. See, rather than boiling the argument to the mere essentials needed to convey it, RCEnigma instead opted for a longwinded quote wall. You see, the problem is the quote wall length does not in fact aid comprehension. The only explanation given there is only marginally more comprehendible than the message given in 212.

[Ircher]

Why do you think “throwing out stuff and observing the reactions around them” is more likely from scum than town?

It is essentially active lurking. It gives the illusion of hunting when one in fact is not.

[Ircher]

Lol @ Ircher claiming that I'm scum for "not hunting" when dude plants his vote on Norwee and just sits there for 5 days

I certainly wasn't just "sitting" there. Not moving my vote around haphazardly is not the same as doing nothing.

"Authentic Solving"

It is telling that you are mocking the given point rather than addressing it.

I think S_S is an viable partner to Ircher, and the gamestate makes sense for Ircher!scum cus it’s always harder to wagon a slot that scum slots don’t want to support as the D1 elim.

Your bias is showing again.

Cool. Which parts did you have trouble following? Which parts felt wrong to you? Etc etc. Don't call it confusing, not engage in any of it, and call me scum because you couldn't be bothered to ask me anything.

I find it confusing on the macro level. Give an explanation like in 227, but avoid the post-by-post analysis. Can you summarize into a single paragraph (but not so much that it ends up as concise 212)? What I would like is for you to give your example but at the same time keep your point concise and not bury it under a myriad of walls.

simultaneously being low energy in their solving energy,

This is quite typical from me if you keep up with my meta like at all.

the ircher wagon is stupid because the game has stagnated with him as the lead wagon

And yet the game hadn't stagnated. Just because there is a lull in posts in a 24 hour period doesn't mean the game has stagnated. If it was a longer stretch, perhaps it would be apt, but a 24 hour period is way too short to exclude other factors like getting busy, etc. (Also, the game has in general been "slow" by contemporary standards. In that context, your claim of stagnation is even more doubtful.)

1) Does it? 2) Are you saying that you can see through the illusion when most people can't? 3) (And how do you know it isn't helping to produce reads, besides?)

1) Yes.
2) It's a fine art. I'm not claiming to be omniscient here.
3) Sure, it could, but that doesn't preclude scum from doing the same. Unless Tracer decides to tell us what they've gleamed from it all, it remains the case that it is a performative gesture.

I realize this might be extremely biased, but i want to townread you based on the fact that you are one of the few players that is being proactive right now.

It's still all performance.

Ircher still just lurking too, i don’t like it.

You know good and well that I mainly post at night. I posted yesterday. By definition, that is not lurking.

I'm not as angsty as Tracer with activity. I like slow games. And, personally, I think a good deal of associative a have already been established. You don't need 70 page day 1's to get a good start in a game.

This is well-said.

Meg votecamped on SS, doing nothing
Ircher omguses Norwee, does nothing, omgusses me does nothing.
Duckie sat with his vote on me forever alone doing nothing
SS isn't even posting.
Gamma posted a bunch of fluff, caught pressure, pressed eject immediately.

Like if you guys dont want to play the game why do you even sign up

This is so uncharitable and not really an accurate reflection of what actually has transpired to this point. Perhaps the most egregious point is the last one by far; that's clearly not what happened and to think otherwise is really really questionable.

then they switched to Tracer. And they haven't explained that read either,

This is blatantly false; I gave an explanation in 407. You can disagree with the explanation, but you cannot claim I didn't give one.

E-2 is generally claim territory

Since when?

Like even if he's town he should be sharing his reads, that's the point of this game. To solve people's allignment, i will never read not doing so as towny.

Okay, but I am? Maybe not in the form or with the specific timing you are expecting, but I'm definitely sharing my reads.

Youve got what you'll get from me. We're wagoning one scum, and it isn't Ircher. Tracer has a buddy off-wagon, and is being overtly manipulative to keep ircher's wagon in-tact. There's a profound dissonance between be tween "idc lim me, garbage town" and all of the shit hes pulling here. please don't fall for this.

I agree with this 100%.

I suppose you could convince me to elim an slot that is even scummier than Ircher, but what is it exactly you think has been manipulative from Tracer so far?

All the play around me earlier was pretty manipulative tbh. Anything I did was cast as some femme fatale seduction that couldn’t be trusted, which Tracer only stopped doing when it was clear that people weren’t scumreading me anymore.

Now Tracer is essentially negging the town, in my opinion inaccurately casting the town as apathetic and unable to tie its own shoelaces. Calling the worst’s read laughably bad, for example. There’s really nothing that townie about Tracer’s play and Tracer should know that. Tracer uses the pushing of Ircher as a reason to be read as town, but as scum Tracer needs to look like they’re doing

something.

People have been looking squinty-eyed at Tracer for a while, so Tracer-scum would be at huge risk of being caught out for inaction. They tried pushing me, which made sense because my play has been strange enough that there wouldn’t be much fallout from my townflip, and then it feels like when that didn’t work, the next easy option was Ircher.

(Just going to point out that Wallflower is like my 2nd strongest town read.)

tracer/toog should be 2/2, wildcards are ss and wall (who if scum played thar 1v1 spectacularly)

Nah, I'm pretty confident on Wallflower being town here based on their play. Both scum are in Tracer/Toog/Smart.

[Ircher]

Both scum are in Tracer/Toog/Smart.

I'm taking back this specific comment. The sentiment remains that Wallflower is not scum here, but I'm not excluding NorwegianBoy and RCEnigma as scum here.

[Ircher]

It's probably 1 in Tracer/NorwegianBoyEE and 1 in Toogeloo/RCEnigma/Smart.

[Ircher]

Tracer >> Smart > Toogeloo is where I'm at voting wise.

[Ircher]

is ircher even playing? lol
duckie is tunneled
meg hasn't posted in forever
SS has never voted or done anything cuz he's SS and he's taken a vow of never doing anything
Tooge popped in and said oh ill vote this cuz its not me - said nothing about SS.
I dont even remember who the 6th person on this list is

This doesn't make me want to change votes here.

[Ircher]

tbh I'm not really even buddying you

I'm just a fellow bored person who is wondering why people aren't bothering to play

You keep saying this, but it is objectively false.

[Ircher]

Let's just speed lim Tracer here if all they are going to do is misrepresent and complain about the game state.

[Ircher]

like this game isnt moving at 20 pages a day and people can't keep up

literally nothing is happening because half the game is too lazy to play/post

This is still false. Only two players fit that criteria.

[Ircher]

Also, I don't think you've understood the fact that I'm voting you precisely because you continue to make objectively false statements avout the game state instead of being the change you wish to see.

[Ircher]

Tracer being proactive and trying to push the game forward starts before pushing Ircher even, which is the big thing holding me back from voting there. I don't see the scum angle.

They aren't. They have made a few performative gestures and that's it. The rest is moping about how everyone else isn't doing anything when that objectively isn't the case.

[Ircher]

I think Tracer should claim

[Ircher]

I'm VT

I thought that was fairly obvious when I said I'm fine dying today

It was a mere formality anyway. If you claimed anything, we'd know it was a fake claim.

[Ircher]

I'm willing to vote Toog here if a town flip means we kill Tracer tomorrow.

I know Meg hasn't done much lately, but I'm not really up for limming there rn. I saw something earlier in the day from Meg that is unlikely to come from scum based on my knowledge of the setup.

[Ircher]

Tracer >> Toogeloo = Smart > RCEnigma > MegAzumarill is my current lim preferences.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Meg
Whatever.

[Ircher]

I do not intend to claim. We have had enough today.
Kill me if you must but I'm opposed to it on principle of knowing my own alignment

We both know you aren't a town-aligned PR, so this is unnecessary.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Tracer

[Ircher]

We're killing Tracer or Toogeloo today.

[Ircher]

In the immortal words of my friend, Pooky...

I choose not me

Are you both scum or something.

I feel it's possible. I definitely think the way the Meg wagon formed out of the blue is indicative of scum on it, and I'm leaning significantly towards Tracer being the scum over you rn.

[Ircher]

As to explaining my reasoning: I know for a fact that it would get dismissed as "bad setup spec", and even if it did, there was a 0% chance it would change your mind. Thus, it wasn't worthwhile elaborating further especially when it's based on knowledge I know about the setup from my role. (Speaking of which, I have not and do not plan on sharing because revealing it adds virtually nothing to the table while keeping it does give a slight chance for town to slip lack of awareness of such knowledge or for the reverse case of scum TMI'ing the info. Meg was the former case obviously.)

As to hammering: there was like ~5 hours left in the day, and I wasn't going to be on later. the worst had already shifted votes, so it seemed unlikely you would garner the needed votes in my absence. The basis of my town read (as alluded above) was not strong enough that allowing a no lim to occur would be the better outcome.

Anyway, the Meg thing is only part of the reason why I scum read you. There's still the matter of your manipulative posting and continuous misrepresentation of the game state yesterday that also makes you scum.

[Ircher]

We're never limming Wallflower today.

[Ircher]

do you have examples of how I lied and manipulated in a way that proves I'm scum? i'm always interested in that.

There are tons of examples of you lying about the game state that I've already pointed out. For instance, 641 where you claim that people aren't bothering to play.

btw I think it's funny you think I'm misrepresenting the game state when literally nobody is posting but go off champ

Yes, things slowed down because it was a holiday (Easter, Passover, etc.) This is further evidenced by the fact that two players declared V/LA over the weekend.

We're killing Tracer or Toogeloo today.

Do you really think this is 1 for 1 or just that tracer is scum?

I think the two have an 80% chance of 1 scum among them based on the timing and forming of the Meg wagon.

I'm still convinced tracer/ss/wall has 1 if not both scum.

My scumread on them is low in confidence but my pool is what it is because I can consider myself norwee and Ircher all town. If I make a leap on you as town that's all that's left. I'm not fully there, but I do keep flipping back and forth.

I noticed you excluded Toogeloo from your pool. Why?

If Norwe-scum/Tracer-town, best to let Tracer go.

I'm not sure I'm following your logic fully here. The way I see it, the Meg wagon wouldn't have launched off the ground without NorwegianBoy's support. To be clear here, I'm not necessarily condemning as "guilty by association" here for that, but I don't see how it makes NorwegianBoy town here. I agree though with your logic for the S/S case.

Tracer seems to be genuinely invested in affecting the day's outcome which I don't think he would always feel the need to do as scum,

I think the worst gave a pretty good rebuttal of this point in 691.

How about we ask questions that matter.

Who do people think Tracer would have as an viable partner if we were to assume he’s scum? I think that’s a good way to solve.
I’d analyze now but i’m typing this on my phone in 2 AM.

I'd have to think about this.

I'd say Smart would fit, but really, Smart is a viable scum partner for anyone here. I'd say that you and Tracer were probably too synced D1 to be scum together. Not impossible but unlikely. Wallflower is just town, so I'm not considering that as an option either.

[Ircher]

It's their posts from 129 to 156. It's got that "inexperienced" feel but it comes across in a natural and genuine way. (Yes, there's the case to be made that scum!Wallflower does it for the town cred, but I've weighed the two possibilities and based on my understnading, it comes out strongly in favor of Wall being town here.) Aside from that, they've given a steady stream of reads that flow in a logical progression. I don't see an agenda from the slot but rather a genuine curiosity.

[Ircher]

are you just taking duckie's word for it or have you actually read any of my scum games for yourself

I am taking the worst's word for it, yes. That being said, the assessment fits into how I perceive you.

like if the town isn't doing shit

I don't need to do shit either

Indeed, you are not

compelled

to do anything. That doesn't mean scum you decides to do that here.

is ircher even playing? lol

This is false. You might not have been okay with my level of activity/effort, but that's not quite the same as not playing at all.

meg hasn't posted in forever

While this may be partially true, Meg explained that they got busy (i.e.: "should've declared V/LA) in 606 and promised to contribute content the following day. They did in fact post their analysis the following day (though it came after you made your post). You cannot fault a player for not contributing when they got busy in real life.

SS has never voted or done anything cuz he's SS and he's taken a vow of never doing anything

You seem to equate voting with "doing things". I agree that I am not overall impressed with Smart's contributions, but once again, claiming that he has done nothing is just false. 252 and 569 are examples of him doing something.

If Toog is scum +1 it has to be with norwee since that's the ONLY slot securely townread enough to give toog the leeway to do nothing.

I'm not really familiar with Toogeloo's scum meta, but I know their town games tend to be on the lower energy side. I would thus suspect the scum games are similar, and contrary to what people may believe, I really don't think one's scummates have a significant enough influence on one's play in the way you are suggesting here. They can encourage you to be a bit more active, but the overall trend of play I would suspect remains roughly the same.

I think the two have an 80% chance of 1 scum among them based on the timing and forming of the Meg wagon.

You're saying you just think it's tracer then. Toog wasn't a part of the flash wagon.

The wagon was still a counter to Toogeloo. Sure, not being on it is a pretty good point for Toogeloo because unless it's Tracer/Toogeloo, their buddy wasn't on the wagon. So in other words, that means that in the scum Toogeloo case, there's a good chance the wagon was town led. But with that being said, inaction can be equally as telling as action. Meg's wagon had very little resistance. Even if scum Toogeloo and their partner was not on the wagon, they still benefited from the wagon forming and running counter to their own wagon. Also, making it a dichotomous ultimatum helps bring focus to the game. (That being said, I'd entertain a case on Smart as well if anyone wants to talk there.)

if anyone actually wants to like try to play the game.

There you go again...

I didn't like the way gamma rep'd out to pressure.

I really don't think this was what happened. I'm just going to point out that Gamma /outted from another game he signed up for at the same time he replaced out here.

But S_S hasn’t actully done anything scummy really? They’ve just done relatively nothing.

Unfortunately, doing relatively nothing (and I will emphasize that "relatively nothing" is not the same as "nothing") is not only a viable strategy as scum but one that I know scum Smart has utilized in the past.

Like there’s something performative about interactions between Wall and Tracer.
Anyone else sense that?

Can you quote an example?

[Ircher]

I was also waiting to see if someone else would make the decision so I didn't have to.

No. You need to pick a side.

(You don't have to vote immediately, but you need to make your position here clear before day end.)

[Ircher]

Why?

Picking a side forces you to make a commitment and that commitment in turn associates you with others. That's valuable information down the road even if it may not be in the immediate future.

Also
UNVOTE:
No self-hammering please, especially not before Smart commits to a decision here.

[Ircher]

do you think all the people voting for me now are mafia?

cuz if tooge flips town then they will just vote for me again tomm and game is over

I don't see this as the case considering: 1) I'm not going to be alive tomorrow and 2) I forced the dichotomy in the first place.

[Ircher]

No, I don't think it's the foregone conclusion you are making it out to be. There will be plenty of time for discussion and reconsideration.

[Ircher]

I think once they arr flipped things will become a lot clearer.

I'm a bit curious. How do you think things will be clearer after a Tracer flip?

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Something Smart

Present your case please.

[Ircher]

Rce and Ircher need to both put their vote BACK. Cus we almost just made a big mistake here.

I am withholding rn so we maximize discussion time.

[Ircher]

Wall could theoretically just be hard bussing you for extra distancing.

Maybe, but I really don't think it is Wallflower. And if it, I'd be okay losing to scum Wallflower here. They've played a good game.

[Ircher]

I'm still waiting on Smart to take a hard stance of some kind.

[Ircher]

Gamma is going to lol rage rep out

I don't get why you keep saying it was a rage replace.

[Ircher]

I'm more interested in your scum reads.

[Ircher]

And which of the three would you vote rn if you had to choose one?

[Ircher]

Can you talk about that read some? I didn't see much about NorwegianBoy in your ISO.

[Ircher]

im barely hanging on to life

ircher is one vote short of forcing my elim

and i read flip on my most vocal defender who is widely townread

to do what

express ticket to suicideville?

lol

Let's be honest: this is a high-risk but high-reward move. Yes, it seems counterintuitive, but the fact is that you would most likely have ended up dead if the status quo remained. Doing something flashy like turning on your biggest defender could be just the shake up you need to save yourself.

(I'm not necessarily saying that's what happened here, but it's very much a viable move).

[Ircher]

I'm hammering later tonight, so if anyone has anything to say between now and then, this is your last opportunity.

[Ircher]

Final Reads:

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective) (98%-100% Confidence)
Ircher (100%): Role PM

Likely Town

(85%-97% Confidence)

Wallflower (+88%): I explained this in 829. We also have the town slip regarding mafia daytalk. I think the only plausible partner for Wallflower is Tracer; 896 feels like possible theater. A Tracer town flip pretty much clears this slot in my opinion.

Leaning Town

(60%-84% Confidence)

Neutral Town

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read or Diffident Read)

NorwegianBoyEE (+45%): It's hard to tell here. I wasn't a fan of their early game, but they do seem to be exerting a lot of effort into the game. I know effort does not equate town, but I still feel scum NorwegianBoy would be incentivized to back off at some point. Unlike Tracer, they've kept a more reasonable perspective of the game state which is +town points in my book. I think that if Tracer flip town, this slot goes way down in my reads.

Toogeloo (+32%): I was town reading Gamma Emerald for the majority of the game. I don't really see scum Gamma making 76; I don't think he gains much by trying to pocket me. I also think 193 was valid even if a bit overdramatic. Toogeloo is harder to read. They're always low effort. They've provided content here and there like in 800, but I will also note a good portion of their day 2 posts have been self-meta and posturing. (An example of the latter is 909.) Last thing to note: Meg wagon day 1 was a counter to both Toogeloo and Tracer. That's slightly +scum equity for Toogeloo.

Null

(0%-30% Confidence; No/Very Weak Read)

Neutral Scum

(31%-59% Confidence; Mixed Read or Diffident Read)

RCEnigma (-35%): I gave an explanation in 410, but it's been a while since then. I wouldn't say my read has actually changed that much especially given Enigma has felt non-existent Day 2. 423 has the vibe of scum caught for the wrong reasons. The fixation on Wallflower... while it tracts with their progression I guess... just makes me suspect here. Also 1124 is inaccurate considering I've expressed a town read on Wallflower multiple times.

Leaning Scum

(60%-75% Confidence)
Something Smart (-60%): He seems really content on taking as few stances as possible. He'd definitely fit as anyone's partner. I feel his lack of action is telling even if it is standard for him.

​​

Likely Scum

(76%-100% Confidence)

Spoiler: How to read this reads list

Players are placed in different sections based on my confidence in the read expressed as a percentage. A positive percentage indicates that I leans towards town on a player whereas a negative percentage indicates I lean towards scum on a player. Please note that the Null section contains both townreads and scumreads, and you must look a the sign of the percentage in parenthesis to determine which way I lean.

Confidence ratings are rough estimates (and somewhat arbitrary) and are relative to one another. They do not represent a probability of any kind and should not be interpreted that way.

I left off Tracer because I'm hammering them.

VOTE: Tracer

Last note: I was informed at the beginning of the game that mafia had both an encryptor and an encryptor enabler.

[Ircher]

Good game! No redactions from me.