Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[VP Baltar]

damn it! I wanted first!

VOTE: fire

[VP Baltar]

do not fret, i shall solve the game!!

you're already on the shitlist, pal.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: skitter

Thank you enchant.

[VP Baltar]

do not fret, i shall solve the game!!

you're already on the shitlist, pal.

why, for taking this pagetop?

ok, now you're openwolfing.

[VP Baltar]

Never live in a log cabin this shit turns into straight 24/7 thunderdoming wasps in the spring/summer I know they look nice on Instagram but holy shit say no

secret tip: put cat food in a those yellow wasp traps. They go mad for that shit and then die.

[VP Baltar]

Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.

[VP Baltar]

we should probably lim skitter before the weekend so she doesn't have to worry the game is getting away from her while she is away.

[VP Baltar]

we should probably lim skitter before the weekend so she doesn't have to worry the game is getting away from her while she is away.

I'm gonna be more vla thab usual this weekend >.>

she sweatin'

[VP Baltar]

You can also make a trap out a big tub if you have one.

Step 1. Tub with soapy water
Step 2. Put a wood board slightly above the water with something the wasps will eat
Step 3. Put outside
Step 4. Watch in horror as wasps try to get the yummy and then get their wings stuck in the soap and die

Damn, dwlee put here playing SAW 6 with wasps. Ok ok

[VP Baltar]

More skitter votes.

[VP Baltar]

Only two spots left on this skitter wagon. Better bus now scum butts

[VP Baltar]

Two ascetics is also not out of scope.

This is a weird thought to have

[VP Baltar]

Vpb why are u wagoning me?

You're having too many SERIOUS reads based on meh things.

[VP Baltar]

the thought makes sense from the POV of "i am not the ascetic you are looking for"

Idk, if I was town ascetic, I'd just assume it was a false result investigative. (Admittedly, I haven't even looked up what a mailman does and I'm trusting your description is accurate)

[VP Baltar]

Not really. Aristeia's use is actually valid, point isn't that she gets confirmation point is that it can be used to inadvertantly catch someone hiding.

My first game onsite had two town ascetics, one town one mafia is fine and actually disincentivizes claiming it as mafia if they get beat to it.

The town ascetic is going to claim 100 percent of the time though, right?

Mailman is going to also out like 100 percent of the time.

[VP Baltar]

I am team Ari in this dispute.

[VP Baltar]

Anyways i want to do this now

VOTE: vpb

Sweating HARD

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: dwlee

Why

for using 27 as your example of vp giving thoughts on the game, mostly

It's not completely serious but it does suggest a read

Not a read, but testing for responses.

[VP Baltar]

Vpb these posts are kinda sus ngl

Why would you need to lie about my posts being suss?

You're awkward scum here sweating over 3 votes.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: dwlee

Why

for using 27 as your example of vp giving thoughts on the game, mostly

It's not completely serious but it does suggest a read

Not a read, but testing for responses.

how was my response

did i pass the test

It was

fine

I.

Probably +town in the sense I don't perceive any awkwardness.

[VP Baltar]

? What am i lying abt?

Idk. You wrote my posts are suss

not gonna lie

Weird phrasing.

[VP Baltar]

What? You're the one who said i was lying

That is not what i meant. I said it was weird of you to say "ngl" there when you could just say "vp these posts are suss".

There is a forced casualness to appending "ngl" on the phrase. So I asked why you would need to "lie" about calling my posts suss.

[VP Baltar]

Ari, why don't you vote prism?

[VP Baltar]

vp this seems like a weird thing to pick on ngl

Nah. You catch scum D1 in a game like this by looking for people acting awkward. Especially in a game with lots of killers like this, scum will have a hard time finding a rhythm immediately. They will misread intentions and try to act natural. There is a whole artiface to D1 as scum where you need to get in the flow.

[VP Baltar]

What? You're the one who said i was lying

That is not what i meant. I said it was weird of you to say "ngl" there when you could just say "vp these posts are suss".

There is a forced casualness to appending "ngl" on the phrase. So I asked why you would need to "lie" about calling my posts suss.

... 'ngl' is a very common phrase ...
This basically seems like yoh're trying to find further reasons to push me, and its very flimsy ^

It's page 11. You want a novella?

I've already given you one with the opening lore and lore I've put in the vote counts.

[VP Baltar]

vp this seems like a weird thing to pick on ngl

Nah. You catch scum D1 in a game like this by looking for people acting awkward. Especially in a game with lots of killers like this, scum will have a hard time finding a rhythm immediately. They will misread intentions and try to act natural. There is a whole artiface to D1 as scum where you need to get in the flow.

Are you this intellectual pick on stuff from the sidelines person, or are you the MORE SKITTER VOTES, I LAUGH IN THE FACE OF YOUR WIMPY VOTE person? I'm getting all kinds of whiplash. Maybe you should check your PT for coaching.

I have no clue what this us supposed to mean

[VP Baltar]

Zzzzzz

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee is town lean

[VP Baltar]

Fire, why you voting dwlee? Just because they pulled some posts you don't agree were doing stuff?

[VP Baltar]

Oh dear, i'm doing this all wrong apparently >.<

Anyways can we talk about how scummy vpb is being and how stilted he sounds ^

Stilted?

[VP Baltar]

Tell me more!

[VP Baltar]

Rolling scum in this setup must SUCK. There is like nowhere to hide

[VP Baltar]

Pedit what do u mean by 'setup' in this context?

9p packed with good town.

Who are the people "pointing it out" besides you?

Also, my questions are on fucking point. As opposed to you, who provided zero commentary on the main event of the game so far (ari/prism)Prism, and just omgused me on basically the same thing I called you out about.

(Sorry bout your flight though, that sucks)

[VP Baltar]

My brain feels like it has a stick in the gears that won't be removed until I decisively figure out Aristeia and I'm not doing that tonight so yeet

Ari is pretty obvious town because of the claim (i think). You're making some kind of consistency in stance argument from game to game...which isn't really how most humans work. I don't think ari is really being intentionally obtuse either, as your posts are long and hard to parse. Took me several reads and I don't really have skin in your spat.

Biggest mark against ari is not voting you. I don't think you and I have played, but I am vaguely aware scum don't like to mix it up with you.

[VP Baltar]

thats why im confused. i don't know if its really a scumtell for him

I don't have scumtells.

[VP Baltar]

including a long one literally on the bottom of the previous page explaining my thoughts.

You mean the one Prism dragged out of you? Lol ok

[VP Baltar]

Have your thoughts on ari/prism developed beyond this?

Yep, I also said Prism immediately saying tow ascetics is weird. Like, that thought would never cross my mind as town ascetic.

Now, Prism is citing some first game here thing as reason, so idk. Maybe that's true? Weird either way. Not where my head would go at all if I'm trying to figure out how an ascetic and mailman fit together. I've already pointed out how that automatically skews in scum favor if true.

[VP Baltar]

I don't think the claim is as obvious

Isn't as obviously what?

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, I don't have a read on Prism. Do you?

[VP Baltar]

Probably town
Again, kinea interesting that you're dinging me for having zero commentary and asking that question when i've said exactly that probably 4 times now

Seemed like that happened after Prism started poking you, but sure I'll take your word for now and I'll check the receipts later.

I need to go fry some tofu and we can pick this up later!

[VP Baltar]

thats why im confused. i don't know if its really a scumtell for him

I think he is often oblivious as both alignments

So rude to me with this alt

[VP Baltar]

So you're jealous because Datisi likes me. Just wait!

[VP Baltar]

i wanna hear if datisi thinks you're acting off this game

Me too

[VP Baltar]

okay i think i get what my subconsciousness was trying to tell me

skitt's fight with baltar *really* reminds me of the fight she and i had very early on in the recently finished large normal where she wanted to pick a fight with me early but it's wasn't going exactly right so she kept being like "but guys look how scummy is datisi being look!!!" and like

this is very very much reminding me of that

this is interesting cause i thought the same, except about her fight with dwlee. especially the way she pretty gently let them off the hook over not very much with a kind of "meh, thats good enough"

idk if I still think that but it is a thought that i had at one point

Wait, you're scum reading skitter?

[VP Baltar]

Wait, you're scum reading skitter?

i was earlier, yes. did you forget that the wagon you were pushing had me as the first vote

i mean, it was a post 1 rvs vote, but i scumread her enough to keep it there for a while

now im not as much

Why did your rvs vote become a real vote?

I did not forget you voted there, but assumed it wasn't a real vote and you were just giving me leeway to see where I went

[VP Baltar]

Why don't u like me?

[VP Baltar]

Also, are there ppl besides me you don't like?

[VP Baltar]

it can also catch a... *gasp* town ascetic so i'm not sure why you're suddenly so into the idea that there must be a scum ascetic

This kind of makes no sense. Town ascetic claims immediately if they know what they are doing.

[VP Baltar]

Is that not a chainsaw

Who is chainsawing who?

@ fire - what is your confidence level in being able to tone read me accurately?

[VP Baltar]

i don't think a toneread is exactly accurate, although there are some tone elements. but it's also about what you're choosing to say, not just about how you're saying it

Reads fully like tone to me given your vagueness and tending toward vibe.

I mean, of course I'm nitpicking stuff to some degree. That's how the game gets going.

Do you town read skitter now?

[VP Baltar]

What? You're the one who said i was lying

That is not what i meant. I said it was weird of you to say "ngl" there when you could just say "vp these posts are suss".

There is a forced casualness to appending "ngl" on the phrase. So I asked why you would need to "lie" about calling my posts suss.

... 'ngl' is a very common phrase ...
This basically seems like yoh're trying to find further reasons to push me, and its very flimsy ^

It's page 11. You want a novella?

I've already given you one with the opening lore and lore I've put in the vote counts.

Acting like you're not pushing me/Skitter in 155 is again disingenuous.

Fwiw i'm not sure she's actually pushing me, or even a team of me/you ...

Pedit i want more than you're giving rn, yes
I think if you'd like to push me you can come up with something better and more real than 'i'm nervous!!!1!' and 'i used the phrase ngl'

Even more than that if that's your strongest read i find that concerning yes

going back through skitter right now. I really hate this. Complaining about an early game wagon on you being thin and then saying that's a reason to suss me is such scummy bullshit. Of course it's going to be thin! It's the nature of the game at that point. What town!skitter should be asking herself is about my intentions and whether I'm trying to honestly figure out her alignment by pushing on her. I don't know if she's really doing that here.

The one thing that is giving me a bit of pause is her instant OMGUS of datisi too. Skitter is a good player who most people like and she probably isn't used to getting run up immediately in a game (part of the reason I wanted to lean on her quickly I suppose). So the question here is if she's just having a bad reaction as town, or is squirmy scum.

[VP Baltar]

Probably town
Again, kinea interesting that you're dinging me for having zero commentary and asking that question when i've said exactly that probably 4 times now

ok, I said I was going to check the receipts on this, and this definitely does not check out or at the very least is disingenuous from Skitter.

Prism raised a good point that skitter was kind of sidelining in the Prism/Ari fight and not giving much of an opinion. I repeated this and skitter accused me of not taking much of a position (when I clearly stated early on that I think Ari looks better out of it).

Skitter then was like "well it's not like you have a prism read"...to which I agreed I don't have a good read there yet. I asked if skitter had a read. And then she said the above.

Ok cool, says she has four times said Prism is town. So I wanted to check if that's before or after Prism started poking her, and it's definitely after. This is the only mention I saw that I could conceivably interpret as skitter calling Prism town, and it isn't super committal.

I'm not sure 'satisfied' is the right word, more a combo of:
Their thouhht could be plausible and i'm feeling a bit worse abt vpb now

~

I dont really have thoughts on this ari/prism thing, i think they can plausibly be tvt

Like, yeah, it's plausible. Anything is plausible. Anyhow, I'll be generous and give her that one. But the next mention of Prism town that i see comes here:

Ok got it
I think this is a tvt argument and dont have much else to say abt it really

I dont think she picks this fight with u as scum. She absolutely would try to push u and flip u if she thinks she could get away with it, but i dont think this would be the reasoning she'd use, as its somewhat flimsy

I also understand why she's shying around the mechplay argument, vs i think scum-her would just push that if she thought it would be fruitful

I also think your understanding for how she'd approach this is wrong (and somewhat hard to follow) but i think you probably (?) believe it. Ot at least i dont really scumread you for it

I think its basically a tvt argument, and i'm just letting u play yourselves out so we can get to more interesting things, like whether vpb is scum

I also think that *all* the mech arguments are flimsy. People are gonna die, or not, we're probably not flipping either of u today, so honestly i dont find this very interestig

So yeah, I don't think I'm really being unfair by asking skitter what her read was when it was not at all clear during the actual Prism/ari fight itself.

[VP Baltar]

- what are your reads on ceph and fire, who incidentally called out issues with your play similar ro my own

You keep bringing this up, why?

I don't have an issue being questioned, and I've interacted with fire on this. Ceph is whatever. I started reading his post on it and it was semi-unintelligible. I'll go find it now and respond so you can put your mind at ease that I've left nothing off the table.

My read on fire right now is in the null range still. I think his dwlee push is not good reasons, and I don't think he knows how to read me yet, so that's whatever. I'll see how he mixes it up as the day goes on.

Ceph read is harder for me because I don't have any experience with him. I haven't seen anything there that bugged me though, so null to town lean I guess with high likelihood of adjustment in either direction as I get a better sense of where he stands in the game.

[VP Baltar]

also me: posting to AITA for arguing with someone who had a flight delayed 10 hours?

[VP Baltar]

Vpb why are u wagoning me?

You're having too many SERIOUS reads based on meh things.

I missed this post, but it answers a question I asked VPB. This is hypocritical at best, since it itself is a serious read based on a meh thing. It's hardly a reason to call for more votes on skitter. The whole iso dances between overconfident and distant sniping.

Shuichi (feel like we should use player names even on known alts actually) said this about me, and also mentioned I'm displaying bravado.

That's definitely true. And sure, some of it is definitely faked. Getting people into an emotional state with pressure early in a small setup an help me form reads on people. As I said before, a small game with a lot of aggressive town players is going to be a spot where scum do not feel comfortable. At least, that is how I would feel if I was scum here. I think skitter was in Mafia Revelations (could be wrong because my memory sucks). That was a LARGE setup with a bunch of old heads and I was awkward as fuck to some pressure from Albert B Rampage D1. It was terrible and our whole scum team got obliterated. Now, take the situation and put it in a 9p game with basically nowhere to hide. NIGHTMARE FUEL.

So, part of me poking around early, first on fire and then on skitter, was trying to exploit that feeling I am assuming scum are feeling. I don't care much if it comes across as hypocritical or whatever. My only goal right now is getting better reads for myself D1 so I have a base to work from.

I don't want skitter power limmed right this second if I'm being fully transparent, but I do think her reaction to pressure has not been amazing to say the least.

[VP Baltar]

yet

[VP Baltar]

The anticipation is killing me!

[VP Baltar]

Pot to kettle. Yes, you gave an opinion, but you were still very much happy on the sidelines. As I've alluded to previously, you haven't seemed inclined to get your hands dirty with much of anything.

This is a

bad

take.

How am I not "getting my hands dirty"? Or rather, what do you think I should be getting my hands dirty with more/have not commented on?

[VP Baltar]

Like, you said "I'm team Ari" and then didn't post about the subject anymore even though it was the main event. You could've supported Ari, for example.

That's not true at all. I commented on several points on the ari/prism discussion, including but not limited to: prisms talk of multiple ascetics in light of ari's claim, the pedancy of Prism's point about their previous game interactions, the strangeness of Ari not voting Prism.

[VP Baltar]

You, however, are woefully incorrect in thinking that this is how scum-me would react to this pressure tho ...

How would you react?

[VP Baltar]

Also after me pointing out that i actually do have content on this topic, and that your original claim is incorrect, you changed your argument to me not having content about it *until prism poked me about it*, which is not what you were originally dinging me for, i will note as well. I guess you think this is an easier argument for you to win tho

Was I being hyperbolic? Probably. Is the sentiment of what I am saying accurate? Absolutely.

You should acknowledge you were not really being direct in your thoughts about ari/prism until she pressured you to explain.

If you are town here, I think you're doing as much or more disingenuous arguing than I am here.

Pedit -skitter, I'm not ignoring your argument. I'm responding to the main points you're making. I don't really do point by point fights if I don't have to because nobody actually wants to read that. I'm also at work and phone posting. When I can read back, I'll respond to anything I missed that I think is relevant.

[VP Baltar]

idk why you're pestering me about it as if i have a claimed bop on him as i do on ico or bugspray

Cuz at this point he's a p central part of thr game and idk why you dont seem to be interested in solving it

@vpb if anything this is willfully ignoring key points of the game ... ^

I will take all the attention I can get!

[VP Baltar]

Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.

I could just pick this post instead idk I'm right about what I said

its the fact that you said it and the example you gave doesn't support it. that makes me think you just pulled up his iso and grabbed a post that you thought supported your argument to add to your evidence pile. but if it was a genuine read then there was some actual post out there that informed that read, and you would have found that one instead

It does support it and I already knew I was right so I just grabbed the first post from each player's iso that was showing they were playing the game cause skitter was acting like no one was at that point which was not my impression at all when I read. I didn't read the thread marking down posts like "yea this one was doing stuff" I just knew people did and had to go find it

@shuchi - The reason I'm town reading dwlee is this exchange with Fire. I can see the intent of what dwlee was doing with the posts he picked, even as they were not necessarily the best examples. If you're scum, you just likely don't do this. You spend the extra 10 mins to find the best argument you can. As scum, I always feel more compelled to be meticulous in my posting. Here, Dwlee is trying to get a meaning across without necessarily having any self consciousness about the posts they are picking. The post they picked from me wasn't a great example, but I can see what Dwlee meant about that post being effort. (I am of course biased here because I KNOW what I was actually doing with that post, even as it looks fluffier on its face).

[VP Baltar]

You're also ignoring posts: 169, 211, 214, 240, 268, all of which contain commentary on their argument, and quite lot of which is before prism poked me.

Ok. If I'm being very generous, I can see how you feel maligned maybe. But there are a lot of weak takes in these posts too:

From post 169:

I dont really have thoughts on your claim / prism's role beyond: things will shake themselves out eventually

Post 211 is a little more substantial, so that's fair.

From post 214:

And i think prism

probably

believes what she's pushing ari for rn

This is all of post 240 you cite:

I dont know. I'm sure u can, that's just not the vibe i'm getting rn

Post 268 is you explaining Prism's argument to Ari when she said she didn't understand.


Like, these are your own examples, so I still think you're overstating your positions, but I acknowledge you might see this as more committed than I do.

[VP Baltar]

Unless you just mean the townread is for the very thing fire was scumreading, which I can understand.

If I'm following what you're saying correctly, this is indeed what I mean. It's kind of in the response to what fire was scumreading though. Dwlee could have had a much tighter answer that just shut that suspicion down if they spent an extra bit of work, but instead Dwlee just lawndarted some semi-OK responses and moved on.

[VP Baltar]

skitter feels mostly like the skitter im used to, but i have 2 completed games with skitter and in both she was scum

I'm not following what you're saying here. You only have played with scum skitter and you are saying she is playing like that, and you unvote?

I have to be misreading something here

[VP Baltar]

VP it feels like your dwlee read is rooted in how you specifically play mafia-alignment and not on any actual meta or read of how Dwlee plays.

It's not rooted in how I play so much as trying to look at people's motivations. I don't claim to have a good meta of dwlee, but I'm just saying how people TEND to play.

Motivations are important to how I read people.

[VP Baltar]

it can also catch a... *gasp* town ascetic so i'm not sure why you're suddenly so into the idea that there must be a scum ascetic

This kind of makes no sense. Town ascetic claims immediately if they know what they are doing.

yeah

and the mailman can.... confirm them. WOW.

Ok, so your argument is optimal town play in this setup is ascetic claims, mailman doesn't claim and tests N1, confirms nature of ascetic and town assumes scum wouldn't claim ascetic, ergo, claimed is townie?

I suppose I can see that. What do you think about prism automatically going to 2 ascetics?

[VP Baltar]

@vpb: sooooooo had you even read my posts when you said that i had no commentary on the ari/prism thing?

Also now that you've read them, you're moving the goalposts from: zero commentary on the argument to none until prism prodded me to my posts about the argument were weak ...

Also 240 is a direct response to 238, where prism questioned how i was reading her based on the ari/prism argument ...

I'm not moving the goal posts. Jesus. This is what I mean by you're being disingenuous.

When I said zero commentary, I clearly meant "little of substance" and not "have you literally ever said one thing about this." I tried to good faith this discussion by even acknowledging I was being hyperbolic in my verbiage.

To come back and pretend the posts you cited are some clear demonstration of you taking decisive stances I am ignoring is laughable. Anyone can click on those posts and see they are waffley except the one I acknowledged could be genuinely interpreted as you saying something.

[VP Baltar]

Ho ho GOTTEM

[VP Baltar]

skitter feels mostly like the skitter im used to, but i have 2 completed games with skitter and in both she was scum

I'm not following what you're saying here. You only have played with scum skitter and you are saying she is playing like that, and you unvote?

I have to be misreading something here

i unvoted dwlee

Ah right, you moved it

[VP Baltar]

Shuichi, you still content with your dwlee vote?

[VP Baltar]

I feel like I am going to have to meta all of Baltar, Cephir, and fireisredsir to have any idea how to read them and I straight up do not want to do that

Do you typically meta all the players you are less familiar with in games? That seems like a lot of work for marginal returns

[VP Baltar]

I don't like to do it unless I have a specific behavior in mind. Here it'd be your aggression.

Have at it I guess. I'll tell you right now I don't always play aggressive as either alignment, though it should be easy enough to find times I go hard in a game. Just finished a town game with dats/skitter/fire etc where I was going hard as town when town were being dumb and helping scum wagon me for bad reasons. I've explained already my thinking for this game and why I came hard here as an opener.

I also was just in a good mood yesterday and was having fun wiling!

[VP Baltar]

Also btw i think fire is on ur list of people u cant read, i'm p sure they're town

why

I'm also curious why you're towmreading fire. I haven't seen a lot AI from him yet. He is kind of slow off the blocks is my sense.

[VP Baltar]

there isn't a lot of AI stuff but he feels comfortable [I know I shouldn't toneread people but I can't help it]

Yeah, I agree with that.

[VP Baltar]

VP why do you think Skitter is Mafia again?

She was pretty stilted initially, a quality I was speculating one might see from scum facing this player list in such a small game.

I also found her reaction to pressure to be not great. I think she has made some fairly disingenuous responses to me, and it is clear fmpov she is omgusing on what started as a somewhat reaction testing play from me.

That being said, her also omgusing datisi has me pausing. Trying to figure out if maybe skitter is just kind of annoyed with me playing aggressive at her, which I fully expect could be annoying.

[VP Baltar]

That said, 150-250's almost unbelievable obliviousness of how her responses interact with the initial points still fill me with the rage of a thousand suns.

I still don't quite understand why this was upsetting you. Do you feel like Ari was willfully misunderstanding you? Your point felt kind of convoluted to me, so I can understand how ari might not get it right away, but maybe there is something between you two that is affecting how you feel about it.

[VP Baltar]

Also, Prism, can you explain the datisi-scum case to me? You think he is nit picking skitter as busy work for a catchup, yes?

[VP Baltar]

It's also been a very effective and frequently used tactic against me, and Aristeia has seen it in action

The "it" In this sentence is people accusing you of speaking in convoluted ways?

[VP Baltar]

Alright well my jimmies are in fully rustled position again so I'm going to go finish reading No Country for Old Men and hope I can return to a state of serenity again one day

Haha, sorry! Didn't mean to set you off. But thank you for explaining on both fronts. Feel like I understand your pov better now.

[VP Baltar]

Sorry, not the accusation itself.

Intentionally responding in ways that

make

the argument inaccessible and labyrinthine, which gets dismissed as TvT garbage

Ah, that makes more sense. And yes, that is frustrating.

[VP Baltar]

you're not fuckin welcome

jk hope ur enjoying being freed from the tyranny of the aviation industry

I am indeed, ty

Also prism is officially a tr for me mow as well

I thought you were TRing prism already?

[VP Baltar]

But as it has now been explained to me over and over there is none so I'm going to just ignore your "case" on me as it feels not even worth addressing atp.

Was she making a case on you? Doesn't seem like prism is even clear about your alignment.

[VP Baltar]

Dats why do u hate thia gane exactly?

Did he say that?

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, did I imagine that somewhere you said skitter bussed in a micro before? If I am not delirious, can you share that link?

[VP Baltar]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82512

He's talking abt this one. I would again like to point out that its different from whatever he thinks i'm doing to you here, in that that one my partner was hevily under fire, so i just bussed hard (maybe after coming back from vla idk)

And this one if i'm partners with u i'd have just decided to randomly start bussing you as my first oush of the game, which i wouldnt do ...

Noted. I mean, I obviously know we aren't partners, so there is already a lack of merit there.

What I am looking for is the exact conditions the bussing started under. One of course busses when a buddy is going down regardless, which is definitely different than what datisi is describing, which is bus as an optimal strategy in micro games (which I don't agree with at all).

I'll give this a look later today. Thanks.

[VP Baltar]

And I used the wrong buses. I believe busses means kissing. Fun fact to point out in all your future mafia games!

[VP Baltar]

On a related note:

vla tomorrow and Sunday

Of the sort where i wont really be online

I'll try not to get sussed.

[VP Baltar]

Shockingly that is actually +town for Enchant because he's not reading the fake PM as scum lmao

i don't get this read bc the sample role pm is unspoiled in the ruleset, i don't know if prism really thinks that scum!enchant isn't gonna like, accidentally glance over it and see that the colour of the role is different than usual

I'm rereading the game this morning, so apologies now if I am referencing ancient posts from two days ago.

What's funny about this is both Prism and Datisi are on weird points here. When I read Enchant's "green PMs" post, I landed on it probably being +town too, but not for the reason Prism did. I assumed Enchant was gambiting to see if anybody leaped out to all him scum for it.

So that seems off for prism to instead assume he's town bcause he didn't read the sample PM.

And then Datisi takes a different approach to questioning Prism, instead pointing to there being no way Enchant could have missed the PM color in the ruleset. Which, I guess I agree with, but not the thing I would find weird about Prism's point there. The thing that is weird is not seeing the somewhat obvious play Enchant was making.

Enchant, can you clarify your intention with the "scumslip speedrun" post?

[VP Baltar]

I didnt dats like one post.

This actually is a weird post if you read the first two pages again. Hmm.

[VP Baltar]

So that seems off for prism to instead assume he's town bcause he didn't read the sample PM.

i think this is a misinterpretation

what is your interpretation.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure Enchant plays with goals like that in mind

I mean, it was funny. I laughed. But Enchant could also be seeing if it nets anything? Seems like a longshot in this playerlist of course, but I think Enchant actually says and does smart things at times when I see him play.

Maybe I project motive where there is none though. Who knows.

[VP Baltar]

why is that skitt post weird again?

Just that nothing clearly seemed to prompt it. There wasn't a lot going on there, and nothing you said to that point was strange.

I know you two got into this more in depth recently, so I'll look forward to reading that with fresh eyes.

[VP Baltar]

I think whether OMGUS is scummy or not depends on the person and how they do it.

What is your assessment of skitters OMGUS this game?

[VP Baltar]

maybe that was what you were saying? but it sounds like you're saying the argument is "didn't read the sample pm, therefore, town"

I think we're in the same neighborhood at least. I see what you're saying though.

[VP Baltar]

I think I should just claim this.

I am a town novice mailman

and I can't think of any utility for my role except for catching a scum ascetic

and Prism claimed Ascetic.

Someone help me

Can I get your follow up thoughts on your claim and Prism's role now that we have discussed it more?

I'm also thinking more about the gated nature of your mailman claim, and thinking maybe that does fit with a town ascetic? Like, town ascetic claims D1, and town needs to decide to yeet them or not. Mailman then has a decision: Do I out D1, or try to keep quiet and test if this person is ascetic tonight by my action failing.

It seems kind of pointless, but maybe that distraction plays with other PRs or something?

Are you still as convinced as you were that mechanically Prism's role doesn't fit with yours as town?

[VP Baltar]

Why is this exercise interesting to you?

Because I want to understand Datisi's thought process to see if it's genuine or not.

[VP Baltar]

test if this person is ascetic tonight

novice can't act on n1

Right, following night. So further decision on mailman's part

[VP Baltar]

Why is this exercise interesting to you?

Because I want to understand Datisi's thought process to see if it's genuine or not.

Thought so and I'm astounded by the effort level.

Being called a lazy fuck hurts, damn.

[VP Baltar]

Novice mailman is a pretty strange role no doubt. Why is a mailman so good it needs to be nerfed?

it seems to me like a lot of closed setups have at least one role that on some level is "the mods messing with players who try to setup spec"

You have examples that come to mind for you?

[VP Baltar]

my cat just died i don't think me posting today is a thing that's gonna happen anymore

mannnnn, I'm fucking sorry. That is terrible. Take care.

[VP Baltar]

Enchant, can you clarify your intention with the "scumslip speedrun" post?

[VP Baltar]

Gaming Style.

No idea what this us supposed to mean.

What I'm asking is did you have any outside hope scum might attack you or were you just making a joke for fun?

[VP Baltar]

right now I think the scum team is exactly skitter/prism

Can you tell me what you were scum reading from skitter at this point?

[VP Baltar]

Ok does that not apply to the like 5 other people in the game who did not have reads yet?

Also i think ceph can fake not hating the game for a whole 50 posts

Also i think vpb is somewhat scummy as well

Who else was active lurking give names

vp

In a town skitter world, this could be scum fire trying to feed drama. Of course, fire is also bad at reading me, so not sure I put a lot of stock in it. Just strikes me as convenient timing just as skitter was getting a little annoyed with me aggressively calling for her head.

[VP Baltar]

I dont think fire was doing that there tbh

not sure I really do either. Just feels like he kind of started sussing me right as you did, so paranoia!

Ok. I'm at like page 11 and I'm going to take a break (do actual work for awhile).

Not sure I gained much insight, but I think Prism looks a little better reading her exchange with Ari and putting it through the lens of her explanation that she felt kind of targeted for playstyle Ari is aware of. Not sure I think Ari was actually doing that intentionally, but if that was Prism's perception, it makes more sense why she was getting very tilted right there.

[VP Baltar]

Yeah, because you're focused on why her asking "Because...?" to Dwlee was weird and scummy because it's not ideal play

i'm not saying the read is wrong...

i'm saying from town!dwlee's pov, they have nothing to respond to wrt to "why your push on them is bad" (because there is absolutely nothing there), therefore scum!dwlee doesn't have to react any way differently, therefore town!skitter doesn't gain anything from asking that question, therefore why does town!skitter ask it in the first place??

I'm sick of mafia for the day. See you all tomorrow.

This seems like a pedantic argument. Anytime we are getting to using single words in quotes, we have probably skewed too far from a good faith interpretation of what's being said.

[VP Baltar]

I think I should just claim this.

I am a town novice mailman

and I can't think of any utility for my role except for catching a scum ascetic

and Prism claimed Ascetic.

Someone help me

Can I get your follow up thoughts on your claim and Prism's role now that we have discussed it more?

I'm also thinking more about the gated nature of your mailman claim, and thinking maybe that does fit with a town ascetic? Like, town ascetic claims D1, and town needs to decide to yeet them or not. Mailman then has a decision: Do I out D1, or try to keep quiet and test if this person is ascetic tonight by my action failing.

It seems kind of pointless, but maybe that distraction plays with other PRs or something?

Are you still as convinced as you were that mechanically Prism's role doesn't fit with yours as town?

Maybe you're working on this already, but you kind of gave your thoughts on the middle bit here Ari. Can I get your thought on the bolded questions though? These are probably more important.

[VP Baltar]

This seems like a pedantic argument. Anytime we are getting to using single words in quotes, we have probably skewed too far from a good faith interpretation of what's being said.

The quoted 363 was literally a critique of this post and the vote from skitter a page later:

Because ... ?

All I'm saying is I didn't like 363 from Datisi.

yes, it is a single word post, fair enough.

I guess what I mean is that datisi is attacking skitter's putting the responsibility back on dwlee there. You're saying datisi is focusing on too little of things by picking out the "because" post in their catch up. So it kind of becomes this fight over the meaning of the "because" post. I can see what you're both saying and I don't know if I feel like it's productive beyond what's already been stated. That's where i'm coming from.

[VP Baltar]

This seems like a pedantic argument. Anytime we are getting to using single words in quotes, we have probably skewed too far from a good faith interpretation of what's being said.

that sounds like something that sounds nice but doesn't really apply to the current situation

like i don't think the fact that there is one word in quotes there has anything to do with the point being debated

what is the point of this post?

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: fireisredsir


I'm losing my confidence in the skitter wagon at a very inconvenient time, and fire's ISO is meeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[VP Baltar]

good top

[VP Baltar]

Pedit no thay's a bad vote

I don't understand your confidence in fire town.

[VP Baltar]

although it is bad time for that vote since fire needs to be VLA this weekend.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: prism

i went for a walk in the moonlight and this is what i feel

i feel like whenever i talk to prism i'm arguing with a lawyer who is dead fucking set on not only telling me i'm scum, but also make it so everyone else thinks that, without actually ~processing~ whatever the fuck is there to process

Suppressing child of divorce instincts intensifies

[VP Baltar]

what is the point of this post?

it kinda sounded like you were doing busy work and trying to appear like the reasonable third party

Seems like an extremely bad faith read of me trying to defuse an argument between two people I don't think are scum.

[VP Baltar]

what is the point of this post?

it kinda sounded like you were doing busy work and trying to appear like the reasonable third party

Seems like an extremely bad faith read of me trying to defuse an argument between two people I don't think are scum.

i don't even understand this

are you saying you don't think you would do that as scum?

Why the fuck would I?

Also, what is your actual read on me? I feel like you're shading me a good amount this game, but not like actually pushing for my lim.

[VP Baltar]

I don't love that basically the entire player list supports a skitter lim

[VP Baltar]

Or finds her scummy I should say. Is anyone townreading skitt?

[VP Baltar]

Ari, how long do you think it will take you to get a dayplay read on Prism?

[VP Baltar]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82512

He's talking abt this one. I would again like to point out that its different from whatever he thinks i'm doing to you here, in that that one my partner was hevily under fire, so i just bussed hard (maybe after coming back from vla idk)

And this one if i'm partners with u i'd have just decided to randomly start bussing you as my first oush of the game, which i wouldnt do ...

ok, I skimmed this game with you and nomnomnom ISO (along with the vote counts). Definitely doesn't look like the same circumstances as this game. The bus comes much later in the game. I suppose one could make the argument it looks slightly unnecessary there, but I'm not going to spend the time to read the full context to see if that's true or not. I'm just looking at the vote counts and where nomnom was when you started the more aggressive bussing.

It's kind of funny how much you two are talking to each other all game though.

Anyhow! I don't think Datisi's point is really accurate here.

[VP Baltar]

Ari, how long do you think it will take you to get a dayplay read on Prism?

I am scumreading her dayplay.

what's the bullet point then? Idgi.

[VP Baltar]

I am again fine getting flipped. We can give me an attempt when I feel up to it but I am not actively having fun, am not widely townread, and will always have the mechanical specter over me.

I don't think you're under any serious threat of getting limmed? I don't even know if any one outside datisi and ari seem willing to vote you? Why so fatalistic?

[VP Baltar]

Also, I won't exactly be VLA tomorrow, but I have a lot of shit I need to get done, so probably won't be able to EFFORT toward this game like I have today. Hopefully Sunday is a little more forgiving

[VP Baltar]

-snip-

The micro with 6 scum in it?

I am struggling to feel confident in a scum read out here and fire has an embarrassment of riches

[VP Baltar]

of the louder people i would put it as vp > skitter > prism > ari in scumminess. so prism didn't make the cut. there was like 1 or 2 things i noticed from her but they didn't really do as much for me as what i saw from vp and skitter

Datisi isn't louder people?

[VP Baltar]

Actually looking at post count, I guess not

[VP Baltar]

Not Voting [3]: Enchant, Aristeia, fireisredsir

Coward's tier

[VP Baltar]

Will maybe lim enchant

[VP Baltar]

I'm back on page 35 trying to catch up between work assignments. Why do I have 3 votes suddenly?

[VP Baltar]

I'm back on page 35 trying to catch up between work assignments. Why do I have 3 votes suddenly?

Oh hi mark

I did not hit harrrr

[VP Baltar]

i think dwlee is town
i think ari is town
i kinda think skitt is town now
enchant is prob town for claim
fire and shuichi gave me enough good feels at various points of the game
prism is ??? what the fuck i don't even know

vp can you please town it up so that i truly lose my mind here

I will try. I had a busy weekend and too many priorities on Monday. Let me catch up here.

[VP Baltar]

my only real townreads are ari and shuichi if that wasn't already clear

Did you explain your shuichi townread?

[VP Baltar]

my only real townreads are ari and shuichi if that wasn't already clear

Did you explain your shuichi townread?

Link is fine if so

[VP Baltar]

oh i've also seen rocky, rocky ii, and rocky iii

You have not seen rocky iv, the greatest of all rocky movies!!!!!


(OK, not content sorry sorry, back at it)

[VP Baltar]

i don't really care about the mechanical arguments for prism being scum, because i am one of those mods that consistently puts nonsense into my setups to fuck with setup specc so i am naturally not willing to policy someone for an ascetic claim on d1 just because we apparently also have a mailman

I actually think Ari's point is kind of convincing. Like, yes, mods can fuck with setups to avoid specc, but also there isn't a lot of wiggle room in a micro to troll either side.

[VP Baltar]

I agree that Prism's day play has not felt sharp. I don't have much of a baseline for her save reputation, but my impression is that scum should be quivering in their boots with terror, and she has not been giving them any reason to do that so far.

What is your read on prism again?

[VP Baltar]

and vp's progression on skitter kinda makes me think that the team is just vp/skitt and they were like haha let's make an early push for pressure and towncred bc skitter is a strong player who can handle it and won't get limmed, oh oops, people actually agreed, ahhh, what now, find somewhere else to push

imagine thinking this is the caliber of my scum play.

[VP Baltar]

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

Good point.

Not really? if you're scum in that situation, you either hard bus the fuck out of your buddy for scum cred or you defend them and deflate the wagon. Midde grounding is a sure way to get PoE'd. There were a lot of people slinking their way toward skitter. It seemed way too popular to be good.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: skitter

what am i doing

P confident this is scum-dats ^^^^

no

[VP Baltar]

I agree that Prism's day play has not felt sharp. I don't have much of a baseline for her save reputation, but my impression is that scum should be quivering in their boots with terror, and she has not been giving them any reason to do that so far.

What is your read on prism again?

Limbo. I think the mech stuff is a mild point against her and her play hasn't made a huge impression on me, but I find her posts especially difficult to read so I feel like I don't even know what is in her iso. Half of my reads atp are "I don't even remember what this person has posted" and I'm in the process of making an effort to fix that.

start with prism pls

[VP Baltar]

In post 1033, skitter30 wrote:
His read basically boils down to 'i'm scumreading him for nonsense' *while acknowledging* that he thinks town-me has often done that before

yes because it's assumed town!you would actually learn from your mistakes

Datisi, you really believe town don't repeat mistakes?

[VP Baltar]

i mean it is also possible that vp's play around skitt was scummy just bc he's scum and not bc he's partners with her

so im also pretty down for a wagon there

This scumfuck never votes me but tests the waters. what in the actual hell.

[VP Baltar]

i kinda am feeling towny on datisi atm bc although i do agree he feels a little off (hard for me to tell since my only completed game with him he was scum, but i can get the vibes at least), it feels off in a similar way to how i myself feel off -- everyone is good, reads are hard to come by in this game, no one is obvtown or obvscum, we're all crammed in this tight space, etc etc. and i feel like i can kinda relate to the way in which it is affecting his play here

but i do know that he's good at feeling relatable as scum so i don't trust it completely.

This reads like a Datisi pocket attempt without being straightforward enough to draw wrath of datisi.

[VP Baltar]

Suichi, do you think this post is indicative of your scumhunting? I read this and it reads like poking at things without actually coming to any kind of opinion on any of them. I know you said you're feeling at a loss for reads or whatever, but I'm just trying to understand what the intended outcome of a post like this is from your perspective. What were you aiming to achieve here?

Spoiler:

How are you reading him?

besides +partner with you, i am not

Then i suggest that you endeavor to form a read on him, his iso is p empty and easy to read ... ^

And fwiw i am formally scumreading now too ...

I don't think I've ever seen someone use the phrase "formally scumreading" before and the most likely brain-corner I can see it coming from is a hyperawareness of one's own trajectory.

- i object to the characterization of my push on you as a 'complaint about an early game wagon on me'

Yeah... so do I.

@vpb: you commented on my apparent lack of commentary on ari/prism in 309, and this is what you argued:

Also, my questions are on fucking point. As opposed to you, who provided zero commentary on the main event of the game so far (ari/prism)Prism, and just omgused me on basically the same thing I called you out about.

And in 409 you literally quote two differnet posts where i discuss it prior to that point, so that is not an accurate claim in the slightest. You're also ignoring posts: 169, 211, 214, 240, 268, all of which contain commentary on their argument, and quite lot of which is before prism poked me.

You arguing that i have no commentary on the argument is somewhere on the sliding scale of ignorance, willful ignorance, and outright misrepresenration, and i'm leaning towards the latter given the tone/vibe of 409.

Also after me pointing out that i actually do have content on this topic, and that your original claim is incorrect, you changed your argument to me not having content about it *until prism poked me about it*, which is not what you were originally dinging me for, i will note as well. I guess you think this is an easier argument for you to win tho

You keep bringing this up, why?

Me, ceph, and fire all made similar criticisms of your posts so far. You're only scumreading me for it, however. To me, rhat implies that your read on me isnt real, because if you were inherently concerned with my line of questioning, you would be asking fire/ceph about *their* line of questio ning as well, bur you're not. You're all but ignoring their pushes on you

@vpb: sooooooo had you even read my posts when you said that i had no commentary on the ari/prism thing?

Also now that you've read them, you're moving the goalposts from: zero commentary on the argument to none until prism prodded me to my posts about the argument were weak ...

Also 240 is a direct response to 238, where prism questioned how i was reading her based on the ari/prism argument ...

Worthy of checking VPB's posts to assess accuracy but I recall agreeing with these at the time so they're likely valid. Not sure whether it was here or somewhere else, but I had a moving-goalposts issue with VPB too, and I typically don't excel at noticing things like that.

I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not

It is ridiculous of you, yes

This post has already been lambasted appropriately, but I'm choosing to note again that it is challenging to see it as real. Refuge in logic is a scum tactic everyone learns about on their first day playing mafia.

I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not

It is ridiculous of you, yes

does this imply that skitter is claiming she cannot be logically correct as scum? wild

Why is this what you're popping in to comment on >.>
And i dont think that's what i'm implying?
Pedit yes plz do, in particular 409 which i feel is incredibly misreppy

Dats ... >.>
That post has so many issues with it i dont even know where to begin

I noticed these two shifty-eye faces around Datisi and it made me wonder if they're emblematic of guilt over pushing Datisi. Could be town guilt from not wanting to doubt your friend, perhaps. There's obviously a preexisting relationship here. This is basic of me, but nonetheless. If I could use the search function on this, I would.

[VP Baltar]

No fire is still town >.>

I'm very confused why you're locktown on this. Is there a tell or something you have? You don't need to reveal if so, I just find your confidence weird. His reads and posting is pretty wallpaper, imo. Like, I would have more respect if he just voted me earlier when he was shit talking me, but he didn't and joins a rando vote from datisi.

So, where's your confidence coming from exactly here?

[VP Baltar]

Uh ceph, you're kinda painting my posts in (what i feel to be) a needlessly uncharitabe light, multiple times in these wallposts, some examples including:

I make >.>'s all the time as both alignments

in all sorts of contexts, and i have a long history of doing so across multiple games. Picking two out of the multiple i've made in this game to ascribe guilt is ?

Someone probably already vouched for this, but skitter does the eyes all the time.

[VP Baltar]

its probably because he thinks townie thoughts

and here Im' closing in on my catch up and was going to tell you I might be down to lim prism with you. SAD

[VP Baltar]

His reads are also changing, in a good way, they arent static

which reads do you see changing from him?

[VP Baltar]

Read on me

I'm thinking you're town. I'm only like 2 pages back now. I'll drop my full thoughts in a moment. I think your read on datisi is wrong, but so in on wrong things it seems townie to me.

[VP Baltar]

No i meant fire's read on me
I.e. that's a read that i think changed in a believable way

oh pfffttttttt. I think you're a high probability pocket target if you're town (townie under threat, semi-reactive this game). I see a lot of sucking up to people in fire's play right now and I don't like it.

[VP Baltar]

so fire sucked up to skitter by scumreading her

excellent takes vpb

He was scum reading her. Isn't skitter saying he changed reads and is therefore now town reading her?

[VP Baltar]

Skitter what is fire's current read on you, town or scum? It kind of seemed like scum, but I'm jumping ahead to present times now because I played too much mafia today and I want to stop looking at this website soon

[VP Baltar]

Ok, here are my current feelings:

Town:

Datisi
Enchant
Ari
skitter
Dwlee

Null:
Suichi
Prism

Scum:
fire

I'd probably be willing to lim Prism if people won't come over to fire here. I think Prism has been a bit static for a long ass time now, the mech points away from her being town, and frankly, I don't want to read Prism/Ari fighting for anymore days because it's fucking annoying.

[VP Baltar]

Do not follow why people want to lim Baltar

he's scummy and skitter got less scummy

Does he ever even give a reason for this? This is a read of convenience. How the fuck did I get more scummy when I wasn't even able to start posting until this afternoon?

[VP Baltar]

And i think scum were trying to flip me more than pocket me .... why would they be pocketing me here ... ?

The absolute best time to pocket anybody is when they are on the ropes. You want to build that bridge when the victim is at their weakest so they feel like they need you. Worst case scenario, town still plows through the yeet and you get to say "I told you they were town!"

[VP Baltar]

Fire is like a cup of chamomile tea this game. Absolutely the most boring tea ever made.

he is saying friendly things and not mixing it up with anyone. Despite taking multiple shots at me over the day, he never votes me until Datisi does?

he has some "yeah I feel that way too" stuff toward Datisi and Suichi as well which struck me as pockety.

I sort of wrote fire's boring play off early as his typical slowness to get into the game, but based on the PoE of my town reads, he's most likely just scum here trying to be the wallpaper.

[VP Baltar]

does fire ever take a stance on Prism in this game?

[VP Baltar]

And i think scum were trying to flip me more than pocket me .... why would they be pocketing me here ... ?

The absolute best time to pocket anybody is when they are on the ropes. You want to build that bridge when the victim is at their weakest so they feel like they need you. Worst case scenario, town still plows through the yeet and you get to say "I told you they were town!"

? That's a really good time to flip them, no?

Depends, I think you're a good player and if I was scum, I'd want you in my pocket.

[VP Baltar]

skitter, do you actually see progression in fire's read on you or just him saying "she's less scummy now"?

[VP Baltar]

skitter, do you actually see progression in fire's read on you or just him saying "she's less scummy now"?

[VP Baltar]

Do not follow why people want to lim Baltar

he's scummy and skitter got less scummy

Does he ever even give a reason for this? This is a read of convenience. How the fuck did I get more scummy when I wasn't even able to start posting until this afternoon?

never said you got more scummy

ok, fine.

why did it take datisi voting me before you were finally willing to vote me?

[VP Baltar]

skitter, do you actually see progression in fire's read on you or just him saying "she's less scummy now"?

He had a few posts along thosw lines, and i think its a townie read because i think scum continues to push me there, and doesnt really back off ...

Pedit i know >.>

I can't remember, did you keep calling me scum after I was the first person to back off you?

[VP Baltar]

i have been wanting to wagon you or skitter for a while now, i started with skitter but was happy going either way

Why not just start it if you wanted it for awhile

[VP Baltar]

I actually don't think fireisredsir is experienced enough to have it cleanly in the repertoire but I'd have to see the full context.

re: Reflective stepback

This is a fair point, although an experienced scum could tell him to go for it. Also, fire reads a lot of games, so he could be trying something.

[VP Baltar]

i think a town vp would be partner reading me with prism here. he has everyone as a townread except me, prism, shuichi, and im apparently pocketing shuichi. i haven't really engaged with prism much or talked about her, and when he poked about it i gave a pretty noncommittal answer. but he let that go, which i found strange

maybe he hasn't commented on that explicitly bc he knows prism would object to that idea

Where did I say that's off the table?

[VP Baltar]

Where did I say that's off the table?

you didn't (and that's not what I said), but i didn't see you explicitly bring it up either, and i think that would have been your natural town response to my 1214 if your stated reads are honest

You cannot honestly believe this is a good point you are making.

[VP Baltar]

You cannot honestly believe this is a good point you are making.

why isn't it? i think you are not showing the townie thought process that you should be having, and there is potential scum motivation behind the actions

First, I never said I wasn't thinking that. Second, no clue why you think I'm afraid of prism. Never played with her. I'm not, but thanks for the concern. Third, Prism is catching up and has previously said she scum read you. She's not my focus right now, you are. And who knows, maybe she'll surprise me here with some good takes.

This is legitimately a silly take to try to ascribe scum motivation

[VP Baltar]

Null:
Suichi

Prism

Scum:

fire

I'd probably be willing to lim Prism

if people won't come over to fire here. I think Prism has been a bit static for a long ass time now, the mech points away from her being town, and frankly, I don't want to read Prism/Ari fighting for anymore days because it's fucking annoying.

[VP Baltar]

Wild fucking take to be like "vp has prism in second to bottom and says will lim...he prolly scared"

[VP Baltar]

What is the fucking logical conclusion from that list do you think?

Also, I'm not even out here trying to hero solve. I only need one scum per day. Stop trying to have lawyery arguments about how prism is going to react or whatever. If she wants to come at me, that's her play to make. You trying to stir shit between me and her isn't a great look.

Pedit - @fire

[VP Baltar]

vp i think you're not getting what im saying at all but that's fine ig

I get what you're saying. I think you're trying to argue some hypothetical about what I SHOULD do, and I'm saying not only is the intention of what you're saying wrong (that i should blast you as obv prism scum buddy), but your facts don't even line up with the list I just posted.

[VP Baltar]

So we've got one shot combined vanilla cop + simple doctor, ascetic, and novice mailman. Anyone feeling like the bunyip could be a scum role? Just spit ballin no commit

Why would scum have a doc?

[VP Baltar]

Why would scum have a doc?

yea

Alrighty

[VP Baltar]

Enchant

What up with that

[VP Baltar]

Deep down Enchant does have some tryhard in him and follows some basic mechanics. Hardtrolling as a doc-role does not really fit that even if technically possible.

I don't know how many games you have seen in the last two years but the modmeta atm is literally to punish even the most basic level of rolespec, ex. the mini normal with 3 doctors, the mini normal with a vanilla cop, 3 killblocking PRs, and all goons, the game with mafia neighbors

So you think the role is real, but scum aligned? Or a fake claim?

[VP Baltar]

Prism drifting toward my wagon in a self depreciating way is to be expected I suppose.

Good morning, fire

[VP Baltar]

It's a joke because I am relentlessly precise as scum. Exact wording, progressions and conversations with town players planned weeks in advance.

Isn't the argument Ari making about your dayplay that you're trying to play against this meta with a very meandering and lost style today tho?

[VP Baltar]

Part of the issue with this game is I think we are all looking for some slam dunk case among a group of good players. That's pretty unlikely to happen on D1, imo. I mostly think we need a yeet to move the game forward.

A few consensus options might be:

1) Lim skitter since most people at some point or another have scum read the tiger. I'm not a big fan deciding D1 lims as hard consensus that way because they rarely seem to be correct. I also like that skitter seems to be trying to solve more.

2) we lim prism to clear up the ascetic claim and because she seems to be playing hard against expectations from other people here. I mostly think mechanically this makes some sense as the D1 play, but I also don't find her super scummy outside the mechs. She kind of dipped off solving and hasn't really picked up much, but idk what is normal for prism. Yeeting here is a bit of trusting ari and datisi in their meta reads.

3) we lim between dwlee and enchant. This also feels a bit like policy to me. I'm inclined to believe enchants claim is town, but I also don't find dwlee very scummy for pushing there.

4) someone makes a compelling case about their pet read. I've stated fire is mine and can reiterate that. I think people are being lulled to sleep by him just being a nice, calm person overall, but such is life.

Pedit- prism, I'll consider making a case on fire today if I feel motivated.

[VP Baltar]

...I don't disagree with the mech solution, but how did I dip off on solving? I literally spent yesterday tracking through multiple players, and 180'd on my biggest scumread. I threw in the towel at that point because God help me if I go back through again though, yeah.

I need to reread some of your stuff from yesterday, because I'll level with you fam, I didn't have the energy to track that and catch up on 10+ pages here.

In an ethereal way, I don't see a main thrust to your solving since the Ari fight, but I could have missed something. (And yes I saw you and Datisi going at it, but that wasn't hooking me and I think datisi is town)

[VP Baltar]

you suck at distancing with your partner

Ok.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: prism

I'm down.

[VP Baltar]

At some point I should stop trolling but of any potential townflips mine is probably the least disastrous, scumflip would be ace though

Especially hate this

[VP Baltar]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

Yeah watch out. Fire, who has not taken any serious stance on prism, really doesn't want this lim.

[VP Baltar]

scum want a prism wagon, don't fall for scum propaganda!

Yeah watch out. Fire, who has not taken any serious stance on prism, really doesn't want this lim.

are we partners

Judging by your freakout, probably.

Lol, I love that you are all in on this being a good point.

[VP Baltar]

i just thought it was funny that you danced around saying it in like 5 different posts but never did

Yeah, this invented issue by you is clearly a salient point that points to scum me.

[VP Baltar]

i want you to commit to your stances! it's healthy! good for the heart

It took you 46 pages to vote me when I am the main person you have focused on all day.

[VP Baltar]

I'm fine going between Baltar/me

same

[VP Baltar]

i want you to commit to your stances! it's healthy! good for the heart

It took you 46 pages to vote me when I am the main person you have focused on all day.

did you miss where i was sus of dwlee and skitter more for most of the day and also where i didn't really want to push wagons while i wasn't around to see how people respond to them

you talk about me as much or more than those two, yet you voted both of them and slinked around me for 46 pages like a jackal scoping a watering hole until I started pushing on you. People can read your ISO and ctrl+f "VP" "Dwlee" "Skitter"

[VP Baltar]

If dwlee masterminded two wagons though, bravo

[VP Baltar]

If dwlee masterminded two wagons though, bravo

I don't know what this means?

I'm joking you got enchant run up and maybe prism.

[VP Baltar]

Less talky, more votey

[VP Baltar]

I don't need to interact with datisi to see into his soul with laser focus. It's my one special power. I hear his intentions in my brain, like a low frequency gravity wave.

[VP Baltar]

I don't need to interact with datisi to see into his soul with laser focus. It's my one special power. I hear his intentions in my brain, like a low frequency gravity wave.

just openwolfing at this point

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[VP Baltar]

Prism, if we getting played here into an LOL1v1, who is scum you think?

[VP Baltar]

Ok i want to vote vpb dwlee or ceph

where did i go

Right u 2

Hahaha

[VP Baltar]

i don't really care about the mechanical arguments for prism being scum, because i am one of those mods that consistently puts nonsense into my setups to fuck with setup specc so i am naturally not willing to policy someone for an ascetic claim on d1 just because we apparently also have a mailman

I actually think Ari's point is kind of convincing. Like, yes, mods can fuck with setups to avoid specc, but also there isn't a lot of wiggle room in a micro to troll either side.

this is concerning because you alswsyd said you don't know shit about fuck about mech so what te fuck

It's not my theory. Just saying it is a logical and convincing argument.

[VP Baltar]

(2) if prism is scum, fire!scum probly doesn't defend prism by trying to chainsaw VPB because Prism would've told him to fuck off in the scum PT.

(3) I've read his scum game and it's p bad.

These points don't seem in conflict

[VP Baltar]

so convincing that you ignored it until you actually got heat on yourself.

Yes, this must be it and that is why I said I sided with you in the original argument. I truly hath reaped what I have sown.

The Lord is Risen.