Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[Prism]

I'm ascetic.

ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ:･ﾟ KAWAII WAVE!!:„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤KEEP THE KAWAII GOING ¸„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤øº LETS GO KAWAII !¤¤º°¨¨°º¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨„ ø¤º°¨¨°ºL-E-T-S GO!„ø¤º°¨ ¨°º¤LET'S GO KAWAII !¸„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤øºL-E-T-S GO!¤¤º°¨ ¨°¤øº¤ø„¸¸ø¤º°¨LET'S GO KAWAII :„ø¤º°¨¨°º¤KEEP THE WAVE GOING •ᴥ•¸„ø¤º

VOTE: catboi

[Prism]

Shockingly that is actually +town for Enchant because he's not reading the fake PM as scum lmao

[Prism]

A toast to the 30 minutes I wasted tracking that down pregame I guess

[Prism]

I'm trying to kill a wasp but it sounds to me like you get the read completely and just think there's a third possibility

[Prism]

Never live in a log cabin this shit turns into straight 24/7 thunderdoming wasps in the spring/summer I know they look nice on Instagram but holy shit say no

[Prism]

Shockingly that is actually +town for Enchant because he's not reading the fake PM as scum lmao

Idk if scum claims it right out the gate, i think town nearly always does (or at least town who's moderately experienced, whatever)

? Is this referring to Enchant or my ascetic claim?

I generally avoid steering clear of Day 1 gambits because they hedge flexibility a lot. Specifically with ascetic, you're leaving yourself at the mercy of town PoE. This playerlist is unlikely to instantly flip it but depending on who is left Day 3 it gets dicey.

P-Edit: Yeet okay

[Prism]

Well the airport isnt ac'd and its stupidly hot here, so yes

I want you to know you deserve it for daring to go outside

[Prism]

Shuichi, what's the process behind deciding to out your main post 1?

[Prism]

My point is that you could have just played on your main.

[Prism]

Never live in a log cabin this shit turns into straight 24/7 thunderdoming wasps in the spring/summer I know they look nice on Instagram but holy shit say no

secret tip: put cat food in a those yellow wasp traps. They go mad for that shit and then die.

I literally just leave a path open to the biggest window, where they flock towards the sun then die for lack of food

BUT IT CAUSES PROBLEMS

WHEN I'M SITTING NEXT TO THE FUCKI NWINDOW

[Prism]

Look I could be rational and hire an exterminator or I can sit by this window sipping a cold Elmer's with one hand and swinging a weaponized shoe in the other because I'm a lazy broke ass bitch

[Prism]

The tub would also work, but what I really need is a big strong catboi to protect me. That motherfucker is too busy rewatching 2008 celtics highlights and eating spaghetti-o's straight from the can.

I can't start shitposting on page 2/3, I need an adult, someone call Regfan

[Prism]

Don't really see anywhere I want to put my vote down. Enchant read was vaguely serious, but he's actually more likely to read the sample PM than discover it by accident. Both are possible.

[Prism]

I rapidly go between wanting to vote no one and wanting to vote half the table.

[Prism]

Might as well Day 1 massclaim at this point.

Not as familiar with the mechanics, unclear whether you'd even get confirmation that it didn't go through. Two ascetics is also not out of scope.

[Prism]

The first line is a joke btw, we are not massclaiming.

[Prism]

Not really. Aristeia's use is actually valid, point isn't that she gets confirmation point is that it can be used to inadvertantly catch someone hiding.

My first game onsite had two town ascetics, one town one mafia is fine and actually disincentivizes claiming it as mafia if they get beat to it.

[Prism]

Can we stop speculating on what other power roles exist in the game and restrict this to me/Aristeia? Just an idea.

[Prism]

I thought 54 was +town for Dwlee. Eagerly and visibly flagging yourself walking right back into the same pitfall is not the most obvious scumplay to see.

[Prism]

Not really. Aristeia's use is actually valid, point isn't that she gets confirmation point is that it can be used to inadvertantly catch someone hiding.

My first game onsite had two town ascetics, one town one mafia is fine and actually disincentivizes claiming it as mafia if they get beat to it.

The town ascetic is going to claim 100 percent of the time though, right?

Mailman is going to also out like 100 percent of the time.

Correct, and this could be a built-in "feature" or could be amplified by some degree of Informed. There might in fact not be a second ascetic at all.

[Prism]

I don't think Aristeia is above headhunting me but I'm inclined to take the claim at face-value town for the moment.

[Prism]

the only person I would head hunt in this PL is Dats

Anyway this is why I hate mechanics

[Prism]

Issue is that it's "free" in the sense that flipping me doesn't actually get you flipped next, and you will never even be under nightkill question pressure.

[Prism]

155 also comes off incredibly fake to me, particularly the second line.

[Prism]

155 also comes off incredibly fake to me, particularly the second line.

what is fake about it?

You make similar early team speculation as town and repeatedly fall into the gutter. 155 shows some acknowledgement of this.

It feels performative, but on more thought I think there's a deeper issue: You previously got hardpunished for speculating on my partner instead of going one at a time. You don't make that mistake again.

VOTE: Aristeia

[Prism]

Vote is purely off of play. Mechanically possible, red herrings are meta, and requires a great deal of creativity as scum.

Simultaneously I am intent on hardpunishing this if it is a scum move.

[Prism]

You make similar early team speculation as town and repeatedly fall into the gutter. 155 shows some acknowledgement of this.

What's your point?

The second line of the post if I had to guess.

[Prism]

It feels performative, but on more thought I think there's a deeper issue: You previously got hardpunished for speculating on my partner instead of going one at a time. You don't make that mistake again.

I don't understand, can you elaborate?

Mini Normal 2226. One game afterwards you made it a point to say you hadn't read it or paid attention. Another game you made it clear you had thought more about it.

[Prism]

You're dedicating significant time to me/skitter speculation and being sure to hit all the known tonal meta points along the way.

I find it very hard to believe the distinction in 180 is expected of me and in good faith.

[Prism]

I wrote one post about you/skitter

Two, and in the second you made it clear that you were very concerned about losing to a scumteam of us specifically.

[Prism]

I think your approach to me is wildly off from what I would expect.

You're being extremely pedantic, and you absolutely would be eager to headhunt me after our last two games together.

[Prism]

197 has to be a fucking joke if you're town

[Prism]

skitter have you considered that it might actually be important to read the posts and find out

[Prism]

197 has to be a fucking joke if you're town

your perspective is really strange to me because it feels like you think I don't have worry about your scum!game being good enough to get away with this.

197 is asking "Should I not be concerned?". Absolutely, you should be.

My criticism is that you learned to focus on me first, to sort that first and force it through and leave the partner spec for later. You're mitigating this criticism by drawing a new distinction of "Well I'm not voting skitter". Maybe that's important, but I don't think it is. It feels like your intent with 155 was to try and hit tonal points, and let the claim do the work of pushing me for you. It felt very wrong to me.

I'm also concerned you expect me to townread picking a fight with me period because of a certain other game. I do not.

[Prism]

I find it very hard to believe that you are bewildered by and do not understand my argument.

You understand enough to draw new distinctions that serve as possible mitigating factors, then act like that distinction itself was always at issue by putting them in question form.

[Prism]

And i think prism probably believes what she's pushing ari for rn

Vpb these posts are kinda sus ngl, especially since they form the bulk of your content; i have a hard time believing you believe that ...

skitter what is prism pushing me for rn

She thinks town-you wouldnt be pushing a team of her/someone else based on recent prior experiences

Can you elaborate on why I am not reacting aggressively as scum and coming up with a plausible argument utilizing our history?

[Prism]

I not only do not understand your argument I don't even think you believe it

VOTE: Aristeia

[Prism]

My argument is that you previously went on a snipehunt chasing my partner before me in the Mini Normal. I don't think you even start on that path again and just focus squarely on me.

Your response to this was that you understood the connection. However you didn't spend that much time on it, and you weren't actually voting skitter. In comparison, you actually wound up forcing my "partner" through first in the other game as you were already there. This distinction is a mitigating response with further depth of context, not a complete rejection.

Perhaps you are in fact town and this distinction critical. Acting like there's obviously no real connection and it's irrational from my end to expect this makes me suspect it is in bad faith.

[Prism]

Acting like you're not pushing me/Skitter in 155 is again disingenuous.

There are degrees of forcefulness to be distinguished but it is very clear why I think it's going partner snipehunting.

[Prism]

You literally are saying my argument feels fake and that I don't buy it. That's dayplay criticism and has nothing to do with mech.

[Prism]

Don't think I've ever malded at a post as hard as I am at 253.

[Prism]

At the most basic level I think Aristeia can read.

I'm going to go for a walk and try to read other slots but I fiercely oppose going elsewhere right now and do not anticipate this changing.

[Prism]

ari post scumteam spec. ari fall flat.

lesson focus one at a time

ari post scum spec again. prism say maybe scum. ari say do as town still, just less force. it true, this game less force. why prism think scummy?

prism say maybe still scum. maybe town no spec team at all.

also tonal performative concern with 155

[Prism]

ok but I'm literally not pushing a teamread. so I don't understand her criticism because the very basis of it is wrong.

right now I think the scum team is exactly skitter/prism

maybe not final, no force, therefore not teamread nor push

but wonder why think teampush

[Prism]

FWIW Skitter's approach this game to me is scummy.

Her attempt to mediate me/Aristeia was actually missing some pieces, which could be a sign of malice or could be a sign of how disinterested people are and how hard my posts are to parse

At the end of the day she's seen me get into these 1v1s repeatedly and knows that my hitrate is quite high, even if they can be very annoying.

[Prism]

279 is kind of town but also incentivized as scum

w/e revisit later

[Prism]

lmfao jesus christ

skitter what was the common theme of my play across 2181, slaughter hour, forest fire, etc...

[Prism]

I do have misses to be clear, early on in Forest Fire I was off on Hectic before going 2/2. Newbie 2084 Signs I was off completely.

[Prism]

My point is that they have a very high rate of TvS but you have been content to mostly just skim and focus on other slots.

I get that Aristeia has a strong claim. I also thought 279 was +town. Simultaneously, she absolutely headhunts me if she thinks she can get away with it, the weird dichotomy of finding my argument+dayplay very scummy and refusing to vote me because "it'd be mechplay" is questionable, and some of the responses to me were clearly new distinctions. It wasn't hard to understand she was introducing a new nuance that wasn't in my original argument,

especially when she is the one introducing the added nuance

, but she acted like I was handing her Moby Dick.

[Prism]

Like at the end of the day, it's not a galaxy brain genius move to claim Novice Mailman to get me voted out if she is in fact a Mafia Novice Mailman. If she's town there are several possible configurations that I don't think are worth speculating on right now. I'm not scumreading her for the claim.

[Prism]

Indeed, I would love to get nightkilled this game and just have you collect a universal townread as either alignment. Nothing could possibly go wrong.

Either way I do agree that I'm not making things easier by extended posting. I'll take a break from this game and commit to making my next set of posts being about other slots.

[Prism]

I don't really have a lot of thoughts on other slots skimming through. My biggest issue is with Skitter's very limited refereeing and involvement and engagement. That's a very adjacent can of worms.

Aristeia's track record of understanding me is a mixed bag, and they do in fact have trouble understanding elements of my pushes. Simultaneously, with our history known to her it should have been ridiculously straightforward and understandable, even if wrong, and I find it very difficult to think of several posts without working myself into a malding knot.

Hate waiting but I guess I should #dealwithit.

[Prism]

Well, let's walk through that instead.

Step 1: Stop showering. This is valuable time you could spend reading my or Datisi's convoluted bullshit instead. You're all about efficiency now.

Step 2: Get fired. As long as you follow step one, this should be easy. It's crucial that you get fired instead of resign so that you can collect unemployment.

Step 3: Grab as many pasta boxes and cans of Dr. Pepper as you can from the grocery store. Grab two cans of black spray paint. It's the last time you'll go outside, so make it count. Remember, you're a NEET now. Avoid all eye contact, and mumble the rote responses only when required.

Step 4: Lock your door and spray paint the windows black. It's finally time. Pull up mafiascum.net, start stacking up the delivery pizzas, the cleared out pasta boxes, the empty cans.

Step 5: Vote wrong in ELO, then blame somebody else for it. This wouldn't have happened if they weren't so stupid. Use words and phrases like "nonsensical progression", "fundamental lack of understanding", etc, and be sure to hammer home that if it wasn't for them, you would have voted right.

Congratulations skitter30, your journey to becoming a professional mafia player is now complete! If anything else goes wrong just blame the setup designers!

[Prism]

There really aren't any slots I like beyond Enchant and kind of Dwlee, and plenty I mildly dislike. Baltar has a focus on awkwardness that I would have to review to see if it was out of character. The more memorable lines to me from games I've seen have been mechanical dumbtells and some extended convoluted back/forths with Datisi. I don't really get 110, because my first thought was "What is Aristeia even saying with the claim?" which took me a second to work out, and second running through some first configurations that would make sense if Aristeia was town, but I don't really get Baltar.

Two ascetics might be a legitimately bizarre thought, and he apparently was not the only one to think that way. They were in my first game onsite and how it played out (counterclaims+surrounding speculation of all flavors and conclusions) was quite vivid.

[Prism]

My brain feels like it has a stick in the gears that won't be removed until I decisively figure out Aristeia and I'm not doing that tonight so yeet

[Prism]

I don't think the claim is as obvious on closer thought, but it was my instinct. I actually think her play afterwards was better. There is more history behind the does/doesn't she 1v1 me question that I might delve into another time.

For now it's wait until my brain isn't scrambled eggs, calmly evaluate, and type a single post explaining whatever the result is and why I think counterpoints don't hold.

[Prism]

"God, please give me a red PM, and let me dunk on Aristeia again and finally style on Skitter after years of waiting."

"I hear your prayers, child. Fear not, for I have something much better in store for you."

"..."

"How's ascetic sound?"

"..."

"I will also make very sure that you get to have a long and wonderful conversation with Aristeia"

[Prism]

Have chewed a bit on Baltar's point about scum generally not wanting to tussle with me, therefore Aristeia dodging=questionable.

I actually am wondering about the opposite: If Aristeia makes the initial move only to falter in the followthrough. My instinct is no.

That said, 150-250's almost unbelievable obliviousness of how her responses interact with the initial points still fill me with the rage of a thousand suns.

[Prism]

I just do not understand how Aristeia makes an important, nuanced, relevant distinction that addresses my point. She actively advances the importance of that distinction. Somehow she doesn't understand what the distinction is actually applying to. It actively breaks my brain in half. Either they flip scum or I spend the rest of my life still trying to piece this together.

[Prism]

UNVOTE:

will decide in the morning where to throw this+probably spend more time on aristeia but datisi is honestly not a bad vote given second post

[Prism]

I got through the Aristeia argument again. I can understand the early stuff and actually think the distinction fits the picture, where their idea of a mistake was different than mine and there's still no harm in spitballing.

I have written more sentences about 197 on and deleted them all so tl;dr: I start drinking the madjuice and literally how do you not understand it was about the most basic level of scumteam spec.

Almost finished with catchup, that was priority #1. Not completely sold they're town but there's no openwolfing like I thought there was for much of yesterday.

[Prism]

Damn skitter actually had her flight I was hoping she'd be stuck in that airport forever

[Prism]

10 good hours?

[Prism]

so 10 great hours????

[Prism]

Gotta put the pressure on 'em while they're on the ropes

[Prism]

I'm pretty ambivalent about a lot of the discussions.

Town
======
Enchant
VP Baltar
Aristeia
Dwlee99
skitter30
fireisred
Shuichi
Datisi
======
Scum

Between VP Baltar and skitter30 I'd vote skitter. His posts are about catching awkwardness/uncomfortable tone and posturing. He found skitter's content overwrought and her reaction to votes stilted. He's not town to me but I don't see this as scummy. I still find skitter's posturing around me/Aristeia questionable and disagree with Aristeia that she'd more explicitly jump into the fray as scum.

Bottom three can really go in any order. Datisi goes at the bottom because their catchup struck me as very arbitrary in trying to push. 341 on skitter and the followup about it was awful imo. The page 1 "I don't get this" when they just thought another possibility was questionable. 353 was okay.

fireisredsir and Shuichi like, exist. Shuichi definitely exists. fireisredsir has made some points that I look at and just go "OK". Dwlee I think is fine, but am used to much more passive play (Slaughter Hour, D&C) so maybe scum shrug.

[Prism]

Also for Datisi

very annoyed it seems like prism has ignored my super serious page one scumread but okay i fucking guess

I'm trying to kill a wasp but it sounds to me like you get the read completely and just think there's a third possibility

datisi is honestly not a bad vote given second post

[Prism]

I can really vote anyone skitter and below

VOTE: Datisi

[Prism]

It is literally just off the fake scumslip post. The bar is 10 ft under.

[Prism]

This is about it

I thought 54 was +town for Dwlee. Eagerly and visibly flagging yourself walking right back into the same pitfall is not the most obvious scumplay to see.

[Prism]

Backstory is they most recently watched me club the town seals into submission, bludgeoning out townreads with pure tone for like 3 weeks straight in D&C. The claim provides some non-tonal reason.

[Prism]

Maybe you should explain why.

[Prism]

Don't disagree on point 2, point 1 am all ears.

[Prism]

I think the Baltar placement criticism is valid. I always try to rank on a line as an exercise, but I often just throw names up and shrug. Here I was inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt w/r/t the consistentcy I'd pieced together in his interactions with skitter, but rationally don't think it's the strongest and the discussion w/r/t voting skitter over him and hedging was the result.

If you really want me to walk through my entire progression with Aristeia I can but I think that it shouldn't be a surprise given my posts this morning.

No real comment on the Enchant/Dwlee ones. I'm also not satisfied with my reads this game and can buy you an ice cream after the game if you're disappointed in my play.

[Prism]

Tracking through, you seem to agree with fireisred's 213, and Dwlee's on us not really evolving much.

I sat on this post (213) for a bit earlier this morning without really understanding or wanting to track through it. Doing so now, I think I understand it, and think the process described is exactly what happened. I'm not really sure it's AI for Dwlee, who works a lot off of spitball impressions and only factchecking them when needed, but maybe it is!

[Prism]

I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not

It is ridiculous of you, yes

Strongly disagree but idk, might review timeline/argument again later.

[Prism]

You seemed to be very interested in my reaction previously, Datisi.

Might be worth reviewing!

[Prism]

fair enough i am also hungry as fuck

please note that without burger king's impossible whopper, no mayo, i would have starved months ago

i owe my life to the king

[Prism]

wait you just got done with dinner

go fuck yourself i want FOOD not PHYSICAL ACTIVITY

[Prism]

[Prism]

515 is basically where I was this morning, even before all this shit lmao

Maybe the approach itself w/ the focus on perceived awkwardness and the like is town, but again, shrug

[Prism]

I feel like I am going to have to meta all of Baltar, Cephir, and fireisredsir to have any idea how to read them and I straight up do not want to do that

My other idea is just burn the skitter and honestly good chance it works good but god help us all if it doesn't and that approach would probably tilt her off the end of the earth.

[Prism]

I feel like I am going to have to meta all of Baltar, Cephir, and fireisredsir to have any idea how to read them and I straight up do not want to do that

Do you typically meta all the players you are less familiar with in games? That seems like a lot of work for marginal returns

I don't like to do it unless I have a specific behavior in mind. Here it'd be your aggression.

For Cephir/fireisredsir I legitimately look at their posts and have no clue and would be looking for any general idea.

[Prism]

I feel like there's no way skitter reads 521 and doesn't get at least a little bit tilted and it makes me want to burn the tiger

I still won't do it until I actually feel like playing mafia again

but the temptation is strong

[Prism]

Skimming through Forest Fire you weren't as upset as I remember, but still a lil tilted

either way I'm glad you're not so shrug

sorry 4 suck atm regardless of what u r

[Prism]

I feel like a feral cat was locked in my throat overnight, I drove 3 hours back home in 102F with no air conditioning, and this is what I came back to.

To say I am about to blow a gasket is an understatement and I will be back tomorrow.

oh no i hope you feel better soon

Well the airport isnt ac'd and its stupidly hot here, so yes

I want you to know you deserve it for daring to go outside

a tale of two reactions to misfortune

[Prism]

I'm not really known for giving up. When I get back from

working out

shoveling Mountain Dew and Doritos maybe I'll try again.

Also happy to hear the towncase.

[Prism]

I felt 197 was intentionally shifting the discussion to something more favorable underhandedly rather than a direct refutation. Playing the "I don't understand" card simultaneously when I looped its point back around to the original argument had me in disbelief. I interpreted it as a glimmer of understanding and sleight of hand, so yes, it felt incredibly malicious.

Aristeia has previously accused me of intentionally making things convoluted/hard to understand, in another we had a postgame blowup about how she wanted to pick a miserable fight with me only to tactically replace out when it was started on my terms, and I didn't think it was even

slightly

difficult to understand for someone familiar with the feedback I directly gave her. It's also been a very effective and frequently used tactic against me, and Aristeia has seen it in action.

I thought Aristeia would headhunt and play dumb as scum, absolutely. I don't think she'd actually abandon pushing, though, if those were really her motivations.

[Prism]

Datisi scumcase was less busy work IMO but more awkwardly trying to get footing. I thought the pedantry about skitter asking "Because...?" from dwlee fit the bill, almost RVS-style aggression. 369 is really grilling skitter over why she didn't play optimally and reframe the discussion back to something healthy in an interaction where fundamentally both parties just said "no u suck" in one word responses and didn't bother to help each other at all. 66 wasn't asking skitter for reasoning, it was just flopping. skitter asking for reasoning from dwlee's side might get something or might get the "well why didn't you?" response.

Just such an arbitrary push to me

[Prism]

I'm having flashbacks to the "but it wasn't a teamread why would you think it's a teamread" argument when she literally said "right now I think the team is exactly prism/skitter" and I want to go throw a brick through every window of her house

[Prism]

Alright well my jimmies are in fully rustled position again so I'm going to go finish reading No Country for Old Men and hope I can return to a state of serenity again one day

[Prism]

you're not fuckin welcome

jk hope ur enjoying being freed from the tyranny of the aviation industry

[Prism]

Yes. Two examples are Farkran in Undertale S Open, which Aristeia explicitly cited in a previous game, Borjerfkin in 2181 which she is also well-acquainted with. GreyICE also kind of tried it in Warehouse-13 but completely sucked at it.

[Prism]

Sorry, not the accusation itself.

Intentionally responding in ways that

make

the argument inaccessible and labyrinthine, which gets dismissed as TvT garbage

[Prism]

????? literally why skitter

none of this was new information

[Prism]

AIGHT

CLOSING THE TAB

BOOK

[Prism]

That would be the point of 551, yeah, if I knew how to read

[Prism]

I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful night, Aristeia. You are currently a townlean.

It is borderline miraculous that you have somehow missed this pattern of meta expectations & anticipated adjustments clashing as the basis for half of my reads, but you are nothing short of miraculous.

I encourage you to flip me for dayplay reasons since there are so many, and that has been your primary hangup. No mechanics are required.

[Prism]

Can probably vote skitter. Not townreading Datisi (and am actually voting him for lack of clear better option) but still think her approach to me/Aristeia was wonky. Call it gut but I really don't think VP Baltar is scum. If he wants to push me he just does it, and if he doesn't there's no real need to reread and circle back and waffle around. I'm fine throwing him in the bucket and calling it a day. I also just find the game hatred point from Skitter prodding around Datisi a bad line of questioning. Dude hates the game either way, complete masochist, just saw it in PYP.

Just such an arbitrary push to me

it wasn't arbitrary to me. town!skitter pokes at anything that is of interest to her in the early game. scum!skitter hates her life. so one way of finding out which one i am dealing with is trying to see whether her pokes actually make sense and have solving intention behind them or whether they're there because they have to be there. and if i see her "poking" at something that really looks like a nonsense dead end, i'm gonna call it out because that would fit the image of scum!skitter more than town!skitter.

i feel like i have pushed at more miniscule things in my mafia career, but i don't know off the top of my head whether you've SEEN me do that, so i'll chill for now but

I have seen you critique many small things, some of which do not make sense to me. I haven't really seen you criticize playstyle and throw it under alignment. If you're that curious as to what the scumpings from Dwlee were, you could have taken a page from your own book and asked.

From my perspective criticizing "Because...?" was an obvious deadend. The broader skitter model you're presenting here is not implausible but is trivial to present as scum.

[Prism]

In general pretty lethargic, we'll see how much I actually get done today. Plenty of slots to stare at if I want to.

[Prism]

Yeah, because you're focused on why her asking "Because...?" to Dwlee was weird and scummy because it's not ideal play

i'm not saying the read is wrong...

i'm saying from town!dwlee's pov, they have nothing to respond to wrt to "why your push on them is bad" (because there is absolutely nothing there), therefore scum!dwlee doesn't have to react any way differently, therefore town!skitter doesn't gain anything from asking that question, therefore why does town!skitter ask it in the first place??

I'm sick of mafia for the day. See you all tomorrow.

[Prism]

I realize there is more to the interactions and play, this is one point that stuck out to me and we've had multiple followups about.

[Prism]

This seems like a pedantic argument. Anytime we are getting to using single words in quotes, we have probably skewed too far from a good faith interpretation of what's being said.

The quoted 363 was literally a critique of this post and the vote from skitter a page later:

Because ... ?

All I'm saying is I didn't like 363 from Datisi.

[Prism]

I am very confident 653 is wrong and I'm about to just coinflip vote skitter and tell Aristeia to fuck off if she flips scum.

[Prism]

VOTE: skitter Sorry I know you're on V/LA, not just to spite Aristeia.

T->S

Aristeia, Baltar, Enchant, Dwlee, fireisred, Ceph, Datisi, skitter

Enchant to Ceph is the great land of null

[Prism]

Wild that you can say that with a straight face after last night.

[Prism]

yes, if it's tvt, and i very much think it is now, i think you stay way the hell away from it beyond basic middlemanning and just let my inertia carry it

hated push on baltar from basically minute 1

[Prism]

probably to the liquor store

on a more serious note it depends on what reads i pull out of my ass after staring at the thread for two days

[Prism]

absolutely insane that someone can actually look at me voting skitter when she has a real chance of getting flipped and think it is legitimately possible we are s/s

[Prism]

If we're heading down this road, i want to have this discussion before i flip

@prism

go to the null pile and start reading, which is what i would be doing if i had any real enthusiasm. i fundamentally work in cycles, at some point i will have it again. right now i do not.

[Prism]

absolutely that is what is happening

[Prism]

Not townreading Datisi

(and am actually voting him for lack of clear better option)

650 was made because the point is minor and i was sick of fucking arguing about it not because i'm tunneling you

[Prism]

the irony was literally noted immediately before my vote i don't know why you both think this is some groundbreaking individual discovery.

I am very confident 653 is wrong and I'm about to just coinflip vote skitter and tell Aristeia to fuck off if she flips scum.

[Prism]

absolutely i am in a position to drive and chain multiple elims as scum

this is a rational thought and conclusion

[Prism]

i am literally voting the one player who townreads me and would actually consider following me on a vote

[Prism]

i'm just being a spiteful prick so w/e i'll stop posting

i'm not getting nightkilled unless i exactly hit a scum member today so it's legitimately not a bad idea to flip me and would at the immediate moment be welcome

aristeia is 99% town just moronic

[Prism]

held off on fullclaiming but it is just ascetic ftr

realize it's one vote but i don't plan on logging in again today

[Prism]

I wound up bedridden with a migraine, and I'm not going to say it is Aristeia's fault, but I am saying I see no reason it

isn't

her fault.

Kind of sorry for tilt a whirl earlier. kinda not. I know I can be vicious in my critique. Simultaneously I think some of it is deserved. Fullclaim was stupid but most people probably assumed it anyway so w/e.

I have other thoughts but I'm just going to chew for awhile. I'm miserable as shit but know that eventually my pendulum swings back and I enter my Ebling Mis phase. Fine leaving my vote on skitter right now, want to wait it out but flip isn't imminent.

[Prism]

fuck u, no

[Prism]

JK thank u

fuckin friendly tiger

[Prism]

no wonder she has friends and goes outside she's too nice

[Prism]

I fake tilt when it is to my advantage or when I think a specific player will townread it (eg. Firebringer, arguably skitter)

It was almost completely to my disadvantage, you weren't pushing me and explicitly gave me the OK to do whatever I wanted you wombat

[Prism]

I'm content to let postgame solve this.

There was zero benefit to that spat as scum and my progression would have been absolutely fucking nonsensical. Townlean when initially 1v1ing -> scumlean when you make it clear you won't vote me for mech -> death tunnel attempt to force a gladiate -> back to town, all while everyone else actively hates the convo. The chance of you going through as an elim was zero and if my goal is to be a powerless voice I don't swing back and just AFK tunnel.

[Prism]

I am again fine getting flipped. We can give me an attempt when I feel up to it but I am not actively having fun, am not widely townread, and will always have the mechanical specter over me.

Maybe Aristeia can carry my underwhelming and garbage townplay.

[Prism]

Can't wait, bubbling over with excitement.

[Prism]

D&C tilt was first specifically to get townread by Firebringer, who had just seen it as town in Holiday Dance. The second was against Dunnstral, who saw similar meltdowns as town against MathBlade.

They were targeted and strategic.

[Prism]

It's almost like you should figure out if my spat with Aristeia was supposed to serve any real purpose as scum as a means to gauge it.

[Prism]

Can lead a horse to water...

[Prism]

Yes, it's all for skitter, the player who was already townreading me and thought nothing of the mech to begin with.

[Prism]

Do you have anyone who you actually want to vote today or are you just going to sit and rile me up all game?

P-Edit: I am very open with my scum meta/hypotheticals, and am very fine burning plans for little payout because I just think of alternatives.

[Prism]

Deep.

[Prism]

Several players in this game have not explicitly weighed in and I am more vulnerable than you think IMO. A lot of it is an "I want out" fantasy yielding reverse justification.

I am harsh on bad townreads on me, but nothing tilts me like horrible reasoning for pushes. At the end of the day if I wanted Aristeia to townread me as scum she would, mechanics or no mechanics.

[Prism]

Nope. You've gotten feedback and questions when it has been

[Prism]

Reread a bit of skitter. My feelings were essentially the same. I strongly disagree that she would explicitly egg-on a TvT. Many players stay out of them even without her skill, but Aristeia and I are both stubborn people that do not tend to stop when we get started. I will feel bad if she has me as town for the right reasons and gets voted out anyway. I don't think it's a dangerous townread of her to give, though, and I think helping shove my vote through would be the more dangerous choice.

I don't see a reason to move right now.

This time around the "not as sure of town-Ari" evolution kind of caught my eye. Ari's timing with taking shots at me has been questionable but at some point last night I realized she was almost certainly town. I don't think she makes those posts to Baltar last night knowing how legitimately miserable I was. Maybe I'm wrong, but I am willing to call it. I think she makes those only if she strongly feels she's right and this is a replay of the fake-tilt in the Mini Normal. The only doubtful point to me is that she's not forcing me through and sits in this middling Twilight Zone, vaguely hoping I vote scum but too fearful at any tangible chances that come through, and probably hoping that a partner would make a mistake. I don't think she expects me to.

[Prism]

Datisi, I'd like you to elaborate more on what questions/protrayals of mine are in bad faith and seem to be presuming a scum alignment for you.

I've always known you don't like pushes on you. My concern is that seeing strong stances when there were none, and a vague veneer of malice where there is none, is perhaps reflective of fear more than run of the mill defensiveness.

[Prism]

Projects tomorrow are the 4 players I've mostly ignored, but primarily fireisredsir and Cephir. Dwlee/Enchant I am less confident in my ability to read regardless of how much I stare at their posts. Right now I have my single post dart throws.

[Prism]

Alright if I don't get to this game tonight burn down my house and then catboi's

[Prism]

Also skitter's

[Prism]

If you start in reverse order yeah

[Prism]

Can already tell I'm going to be a liar who gets their house burned down, sorry.

Can tl;dr that I will have questions for Datisi later but was satisfied with his last response. At the risk of reinforcing the "chaining" can of worms, I am willing to wait. I'm willing to vote a wide variety of slots atm. I will say the "minor point" was that I didn't want to be pedantic and debate why I didn't like a single post for years.

[Prism]

Nothing has changed on my front. I still prefer skitter. I'm struggling with motivation and viciousness but we'll see how I feel after my run. Physically disgusting play right now.

[Prism]

VC is a mess. We have time but everyone sitting on their pet votes is going to wind up with a default vote of myself or a lurker. Deadline scrambles only work out when they hit scum, need to force real stances. Should start applying real pressure, arbitrary or not. I might move if no one wants skitter but Datisi had her as a vote and iirc Baltar still leaned that way until I voiced my support. Aristeia unfortunately probably still believes Prism town necessitates skitter town.

[Prism]

Wouldn't surprise me

[Prism]

Sure, can when I get back to my computer. Hesitation was that a lot of our back/forth seemed to be Question -> Response/Elaboration with that response/elaboration taken as bad faith advocacy to set up a flip. My concern is that it is a pattern indicative of scum insecurity/fear. Not really eager to get into another nuanced mess to hash out previous discussions to test it, if you think I am scum OK, last set was plausible at first pass to me.

[Prism]

Can tl;dr that I will have questions for Datisi later but was satisfied with his last response.

i have certain thoughts brewnig but i would like to see an elaboration to this ^^

Sure, can when I get back to my computer. Hesitation was that a lot of our back/forth seemed to be Question -> Response/Elaboration with that response/elaboration taken as bad faith advocacy to set up a flip. My concern is that it is a pattern indicative of scum insecurity/fear. Not really eager to get into another nuanced mess to hash out previous discussions to test it, if you think I am scum OK, last set was plausible at first pass to me.

I'm actually going to say nevermind on going further on this. I have other projects I would like to get to.

I apologize if that is annoying. I know it does not help your chaining concern. Fundamentally there are other things I would like to get to and responding to this as scum would be trivial. I would point towards starting back at 422 with 835 as a blueprint if you are adamantly curious.

[Prism]

The implication behind that is, yes, I have questions about your posts and the faith in your reads ready in the waiting. Can you have them right now? No, LMAO.

[Prism]

(I don't consider them particularly promising right now nor of paramount importance, I don't really know how to read you so shrug I am happy to kick the can down the road for later)

[Prism]

Lean scum on fireisred and am willing to vote there.

Mostly still spitballing, more passive than I would expect. Tracking through the reads in their wall against their previous posts lines up but they have been extremely reticent to push lines of questioning except the one on Dwlee. Not really what I expect after their more eager intro to Panic Room.

Even if they line up it's still very unclear to me why they're not voting skitter, and the progression on Dwlee is ehhhhh. Fundamentally, I suspect we'd also have more townreads from fire and posts they do like more explicitly flagged. I'd compare any of the points in Panic's 351 to the ones here. The ones in the wall have nuance, but none of them come close in calling it one way or another and moving along with the evaluation.

Tough call, different games, willing to vote. I think a lot of the commentary on me/Ari in the wallpost was preempting sideline criticism. Their ordering of VP, skitter, me, all of whom seem scummy in some ways along with their concerns about Dwlee make it bizarre to me that they're not voting and instead are advocating the "active lurker" route.

[Prism]

I still have no fucking clue how to read Enchant. Shocker. Hardnull. I'm finished giving him a pass for the first post, arguably not even trying to give a read midgame is +town for him but I want more. Not going on him right now but if he doesn't post real reads or explain the Dwlee vote I'm willing to flip him.

[Prism]

Dwlee, I'm curious what parallels you saw between my tilt in this game and my tilt in D&C.

My first tilt-session in D&C was a very quick 4/5 post back and forth with Brighter just to get townread by that slot, and it was at the very start of the game. The second I realized I had accomplished my goal I moved on.

My second was with Dunnstral, who was townreading me all game. I would tilt to play up being offended. There was no real attempt at nuanced conversation or debating alignment.

I think they're actually extremely different; here Aristeia is convinced I am scum for both day/mech play, the debate was about whether or not she understood my point w/r/t teams, and there was a much more mutually vicious 1v1 side to it that was not there in either of the above. You also seemed to get my point immediately, so I imagine my tilt was not hard to understand either.

Somewhat humorously, my fake tilt in my first run-in with Aristeia was actually much more comparable to this one

[Prism]

I also do not at all get the strength of the push on Enchant.

[Prism]

Surprisingly okay reads from Shuichi. I concurred with the assessment of Datisi's 353, good questions to me about my readslist.

Main point of confusion is why they haven't really voted me given their initial reaction to Aristeia's claim and to some of my wonky placements. Probably not an imminent vote for me.

[Prism]

Roughly, both sets are ordered T->S

Not really willing to vote
========
Aristeia
VP Baltar

Maybe vote
========
Shuichi
Dwlee

Datisi Special Demilitarized Zone
========
Datisi

Willing to vote
========
Enchant
fireisredsir
skitter30

[Prism]

Does anyone actually think Enchant is townie

I do

VOTE: Enchant

^_^

[Prism]

And it only gets worse!

[Prism]

Well I'm definitely never unvoting now LMAO

Don't threaten me with a good time

[Prism]

Anyway I'm scum exploiting your lack of content or town who needs more. There's a good way to counter both scenarios simultaneously.

[Prism]

I mean the issue is Enchant does that regardless. If no one is going to join me on Skitter despite her being a nearly universal null-or-below read I'm game to just run people up and see what happens.

[Prism]

prism: i tilt strategically as scum to pocket specific people who will townread my tilt.
skitter: i think prism's tilt is not scum tilt

i can't even

Yes, it's all for skitter, the player who was already townreading me and thought nothing of the mech to begin with.

also earlier today i remembered this sequence and now that i'm done with reading i can actually make my art

this mfer aristeia thinks i'm catboi

[Prism]

enchant have you considered posting reads and real content

[Prism]

I'm not going to babysit you so you can troll. If you strongly believe Dwlee's push is motivated, feel free to sell the case on it.

[Prism]

and yet mafia members go long stretches without voting anyway

f

waiting until you're off v/la does make sense though ty

[Prism]

Alternatively I'm just scum like Aristeia's been trying to tell you the entire game.

[Prism]

Alternatively I'm just scum like Aristeia's been trying to tell you the entire game.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I really can't say I'm looking forward to carrying you, because I doubt I can, but I will do my best.

If you're not going to vote me you might as well put it somewhere else. I get you're sold on mechanics that your job is to haunt townreads on me like Casper the Fr-, err, Magical Ghost but actually pressuring slots is not something I should have to explain to you. If you're not going to vote me do me a favor and vote my partner or second partner when you have time.

[Prism]

I get that it's a holiday and some people have lives, but something to chew on while you lie awake at night gnashing your teeth wondering why I am playing basically the same way I always do.

[Prism]

skitter's a normie she probably thinks that's naruto

[Prism]

probably spent all day outside or enjoying the presence of family/friends, it's terrible

[Prism]

the only anime i have seen are alf s1-s3 and scooby doo and the cyber chase sorry

[Prism]

anyway i've read way too much today so am about to go to bed but if you think they're scum and more worthy of a vote, happy to hear why

probably going to throw it in the trash and chug glue and vote you the first chance i get instead but you can write it and i will gaze in the direction of the words

unvoting enchant depends on a combination of the content he gives+other wagons, just deny him the option to lurk completely imo

[Prism]

oh i've also seen rocky, rocky ii, and rocky iii

[Prism]

i think so

[Prism]

At this point I am also confused, and I'm voting Enchant.

"Can give real reads" does not mean "will give real reads" or "always gives real reads"

[Prism]

that's why her initial kneejerk reaction was to hardpush me as mafia who was headhunting her etc by making up such a claim. I don't think I'm nearly creative enough to make up such a role to target her because I'm not a very bright person.

I am unsure exactly why she switched tack later on in the day - I believe she thinks maybe it is difficult to flip me or perhaps I would leave her alone if she townreads me and uses AtE.

This is not even an accurate timeline.

My first instinct was the same as most of the table's in thinking it town. 104, 115, 145. I spent a good time thinking about the possibility you were head-hunting, and realized it was viable. The switch flips when you post 152 and 155, which I felt were performative. I was keenly aware you were not voting me and suspected you were hoping the mechanics would carry it through for you while you posted tonal bullshit along the lines of "but I just don't knoooooow >.<". Further thought on 155 and why I disliked it yields 167 and a vote. We then fight over my dislike of 155 and I start calling for a gladiate even as you refuse to vote me for dayplay despite my scummy dayplay. With an hour to think on it, it does not take a genius as scum to realize this is 99% suicidal. I am known to bet heavily on deft footwork as scum, though!

Also initially I thought it must have been intensely creative, then I realized you could legitimately be a Mafia Novice Mailman. I dream of mountainous.

On her dayplay I think she is decidedly less sharp than she usually is and it feels like she's more in anti-spew mode where she's just bantering and having fun rather than actually trying to push/hunt seriously which I know she is extremely good at.

I think she's taken this line of play as scum rather than her usual extremely strong and thread dominant style because she knows that I have certain expectations of how she plays mafia and she is trying to get townread off of indifference[yes I actually townread her when she's bored and joking I know it's stupid]

You were my strongest scumread and the bulk of the thread was spent interrogating your intent and playing very aggressively before swapping to skitter & a bit of Datisi. I got burnt out and took a more passive break and am still hesitant to dominate the thread again, but yesterday I again moved to something more proactive as we flagged.

The overall feeling I get from reading her play this game is that she's more interested in surviving, giving few hints about associatives and not really interested in actually pushing/killing anyone she suspects, she feels like she is browsing through a brochure for like which hat to wear.

I scumread Skitter. You wouldn't go on her. I gave my reasoning and you flopped and have refused to engage with me on it even when I flagged the disagreement and tried to press it repeatedly.

Banter mixed in with actual reads/hunting should come as no surprise to anyone who has seen me play a mafia game. Painting my posts as strictly banter is wild.

I have had a very hard time reading about 4 slots. I spent all day yesterday reading and commenting on those slots, and encouraged us to start picking votes other than skitter, even as other players looked at the last VC and thought "Yeah this is OK". This is not anti-spew and anti-associative. My play the previous 2/3 days could be. I have also repeatedly challenged you to vote me and have twice made the case that my flip is OK.

And this is sincere. Mechanically I get your argument for me being scum and I am skeptical that it is inherently self-resolving.

[Prism]

Briefly whiteknighting me without clear reason is nice but I still want more on other slots from Enchant.

[Prism]

I did spend some time yesterday wondering if my diagnosis in 766 was right, and that you are in fact as unapologetically vicious and merciless as scum as I am in preying on people Not Having a Good Time.

Still think that's right, wouldn't be shocked if it's wrong but c'est la vie. As scum I think trying to shove me through today over waiting for 7p would be a strategic mistake. If not,

mea culpa

.

[Prism]

Shrug. Might seem nonsensical to anyone that's not-me but the towncred would be forgotten by ELO and the paranoia and recency bias that comes with it.

And every tongue, through utter drought,
Was withered at the root;
We could not speak, no more than if
We had been choked with soot.

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the Albatross
About my neck was hung.

Forcing it through at 7p keeps the recency and would enable her to skate through 5p with relative ease, really would just depend on the partner.

[Prism]

If skitter is town I am happy if both myself/Aristeia go in the dunce pile if skitter is scum I am going to

burn down Aristeia's house

throw rocks through Aristeia's window

call Aristeia mean names

gently reassure Aristeia and tell her it is okay we all make mistakes from time to time

[Prism]

(1) do you disagree that i was wrong about her push on me being weird and lawyery?

she agreed with that

Not true, I concurred that it could be considered pedantic but thought a lot of that blame could be placed at your doorstep rather than mine.

[Prism]

Will try to catch up on all this shit later.

Aristeia probably thinks they're both town and won't vote whichever one I would lmao (and without reading the answer is burn tiger)

[Prism]

Chipping in to say I don't believe that.

My role is completely standard and normal. I can't speak for Aristeia's but there's no weird flavoring attached. That role would iirc be called Simple Doctor

[Prism]

dat linked to game with town bunyip/mafia ascetic lmfao

its a mafia game

[Prism]

wild horses on the run

not thrilled with vp's absence, still oppose but maybe it summons him

[Prism]

Aristeia straight up thinks I don't know how to interact with scum partners oh god bless her

[Prism]

Then put your vote back on me, shut the fuck up, and go outside Jesus Christ

Another game of this Trust Fall shit

[Prism]

am 2/3 hours until I can be home so please don't eat each other in that time

don't think claim is +town for enchant even if real claiming, can also see skitter inventing fakeclaim for him

[Prism]

Ari consider unvoting until rational restored sanity Ari takes reins again

If you think I make this as scum with Baltar you're fucking joking, it's T/S or T/T

[Prism]

You won't consider a town Prism worldview and you know it you absolute wombat, that line of argumentation is the last possible tool in the kit

[Prism]

I'm home and catching up now.

I swear to God more mafia posts get made and serious reading done during Monday work hours than the rest of the week combined

[Prism]

I actually don't think fireisredsir is experienced enough to have it cleanly in the repertoire but I'd have to see the full context.

re: Reflective stepback

[Prism]

Yes I know the odds of the greatest scum player to ever grace the site with her presence deciding to play passively knowing that I want to push her is incredibly low but I think this is the line she actually takes this game because she knows I would most likely town read this type of play from her and she is as frustrated as I am.

Also I would probably feel sick if I just let her get away on day one again especially if she mechanically outted herself as scum to me in the first 24 hours.

This actually made me laugh so thank you

I finally got some RESPEKT on this site even if it's partially tongue in cheek

[Prism]

Prism... i think most scum continues to push there ?

I need to see the full context but I don't think you interpreted Aristeia's comment about the reflective stepback and my response accurately; depending on how it is actually done I think it would be +town as that takes time/experience to make clean

[Prism]

I'm honored that you still think this is my scumgame, but not so honored that I won't smile warmly with joy as you vomit into the bucket.

Don't blame you for the mech but I walked you through the wrong dayplay eval.

[Prism]

Its that your overall vibe is: i hate this gaaaaaaaame

when in our 2+ years of playing mafia together did you get the idea that i actually like this game

Howling

Datisi would sign up for the nightmare-guessing mini themes and submit "playing mafia"

He thinks for a second, scratches it out, edits it while in the outbox

"playing mafia as the clear"

[Prism]

For the mech stuff-

it looks like scum should be informed or have some hint about this interaction

, too. I see it as strange in either case.

?

If anyone has another explanation for the mailman existing, they might want to say so, unless they're something really powerful.

????? We literally have 3 PR claims Day 1, how many more do you want?

[Prism]

Good point that Enchant wasn't out, what I get for HARNESSING FORBIDDEN MODERN KNOWLEDGE

Was counting PRs as named roles, Ascetic isn't exactly a lot of power either

[Prism]

Hard game is hard >.>

And yet somehow your townread on me has been nigh-unshakeable

A very impressive tiger or a very scum tiger!

[Prism]

1005 from fire is somewhat basic but a good post, not at all wrong, good vote even though it looks like they FUCKIN SWAP LATER

[Prism]

1005 from fireisred into 1008 from Shuichi has me wondering if it was coordinated, but probably not.

1008 is uncharitable and focused on tone over any real depth of read, also unaccompanied by a vote, which is impressive since Shuichi apparently found no town posts in the ISO but gave benefit of the doubt anyway. Part about TvT/busywork was okay but much came from me/Aristeia chasing her down block, very expected regardless of alignment at that juncture.

[Prism]

And i'll just claim: vt

Jesus fucking christ we are actually massclaiming Day 1 OK

[Prism]

focused on tone

Seems like you aren't going to like my gameplay, like, at all then.

I'll probably love it when I roll scum!