Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]


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Post Post #7 (isolation #0) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:38 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

We can choose neither hope nor despair! That's exactly what the mastermind wants us to do!

VOTE: Draw
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Post Post #11 (isolation #1) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:43 am

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I'm Cephrir, by the way. Playing differently, I hope.
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Post Post #17 (isolation #2) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:56 am

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Trust your Ultimate Detective to solve the game!

...Eventually. Maybe.
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Post Post #44 (isolation #3) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:14 am

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Not saying anything new here, but I think the only way to play ascetic that would benefit the forces of despair would be hiding it. As it is, Prism has a strong reputation so I'm sure they're aware of the meta-prescribed move. So I don't view it as indicative of anything.
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Post Post #48 (isolation #4) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:16 am

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In post 45, Prism wrote:Shuichi, what's the process behind deciding to out your main post 1?
The information is already out there for those who care to look, and I find the asymmetrical information brought about by those who have enough time on their hands to research it vs. those who don't to be unfair and distasteful.
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Post Post #52 (isolation #5) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:18 am

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In post 49, Enchant wrote:
In post 48, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 45, Prism wrote:Shuichi, what's the process behind deciding to out your main post 1?
The information is already out there for those who care to look, and I find the asymmetrical information brought about by those who have enough time on their hands to research it vs. those who don't to be unfair and distasteful.
You are not roleplayer just in case?
Depends on what you mean. I have already made an in-character post, though I likely won't make too many more, and my Shuichi style is different from the one I employ on my main account.
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Post Post #57 (isolation #6) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:20 am

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In post 50, Prism wrote:My point is that you could have just played on your main.
It's a headspace thing. Cephrir is my real self, but I'm a gut player and a lazy, sassy bitch. Shuichi is meant as more of a logical/tryhard account, and my other public alt Chandra uses anger and aggression to develop reads.
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Post Post #86 (isolation #7) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:42 am

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Page 3 is the latest and greatest in shitposting trends, actually.

Dwlee might be town for lack of self-consciousness.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #8) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:44 am

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In post 87, VP Baltar wrote:Only two spots left on this skitter wagon. Better bus now scum butts
This confidence is a meme, right?
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Post Post #92 (isolation #9) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:45 am

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In post 90, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 86, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Page 3 is the latest and greatest in shitposting trends, actually.

Dwlee might be town for lack of self-consciousness.
isn't lampshading by mentioning the omgus kinda self-conscious
I suppose. I was thinking more "this post looks iffy on first glance and scum might rethink it."
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Post Post #94 (isolation #10) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:46 am

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I think whether OMGUS is scummy or not depends on the person and how they do it.
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Post Post #107 (isolation #11) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:51 am

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Not super confident in my setup spec abilities, but it appears that Ari is town, so at least there's that.
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Post Post #120 (isolation #12) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:58 am

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Novice mailman is a pretty strange role no doubt. Why is a mailman so good it needs to be nerfed?
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Post Post #126 (isolation #13) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:59 am

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I could see it pairing nicely with something like a 1-shot friendly neighbor maybe?
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Post Post #137 (isolation #14) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:03 pm

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In post 133, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 120, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Novice mailman is a pretty strange role no doubt. Why is a mailman so good it needs to be nerfed?
it seems to me like a lot of closed setups have at least one role that on some level is "the mods messing with players who try to setup spec"
Possible. It seems like a mod trap either way really. If it's not an intentional wild goose chase or red herring, then it's punishing scum for standard play, right? I guess that's why I find myself searching for a third explanation.
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Post Post #139 (isolation #15) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:04 pm

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In post 137, Shuichi Saihara wrote:then it's punishing scum for standard play
Or wait it's the opposite of this maybe? IDK.
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Post Post #144 (isolation #16) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:06 pm

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In post 140, Aristeia wrote:if Prism is town, it would be punishing town in a 9P for a very logical thing to happen on Day 1
Yeah you're right
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Post Post #164 (isolation #17) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:19 pm

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Help, I keep agreeing with whoever talked last.
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Post Post #176 (isolation #18) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:25 pm

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Where I'm at right now on a sort of gut level I think is, the role might make Prism scum, need more data, but there's no way I'm going to lim on just that as another explanation may present itself in the future. I confess to being mechphobic. But I should put on my Trying Hat later and go over it again.
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Post Post #201 (isolation #19) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:35 pm

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In post 114, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 89, skitter30 wrote:Vpb why are u wagoning me?
You're having too many SERIOUS reads based on meh things.
I missed this post, but it answers a question I asked VPB. This is hypocritical at best, since it itself is a serious read based on a meh thing. It's hardly a reason to call for more votes on skitter. The whole iso dances between overconfident and distant sniping.
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Post Post #216 (isolation #20) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:40 pm

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In post 212, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 182, skitter30 wrote:Anyways i want to do this now

VOTE: vpb
Sweating HARD
What is with the bravado?
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Post Post #222 (isolation #21) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:42 pm

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In post 213, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 203, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 34, VP Baltar wrote:Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.
I could just pick this post instead idk I'm right about what I said
its the fact that you said it and the example you gave doesn't support it. that makes me think you just pulled up his iso and grabbed a post that you thought supported your argument to add to your evidence pile. but if it was a genuine read then there was some actual post out there that informed that read, and you would have found that one instead
I thought this was going to be omgus but it was actually surprisingly good.
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Post Post #228 (isolation #22) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:44 pm

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VOTE: Dwlee
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Post Post #237 (isolation #23) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:51 pm

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Severely doubt that Ari's master scum plan is to pretend not to understand what's happening. She's better than that.
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Post Post #243 (isolation #24) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:57 pm

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In post 241, Aristeia wrote:
In post 237, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Severely doubt that Ari's master scum plan is to pretend not to understand what's happening. She's better than that.
Do you actually understand Prism's argument?
It sounded like you lost a previous game because you started hunting for a partner too early, so by trying to form a pair now you're outside your town range? It doesn't strike me as a very good argument.
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Post Post #246 (isolation #25) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:00 pm

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In post 244, Aristeia wrote:
In post 243, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 241, Aristeia wrote:
In post 237, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Severely doubt that Ari's master scum plan is to pretend not to understand what's happening. She's better than that.
Do you actually understand Prism's argument?
It sounded like you lost a previous game because you started hunting for a partner too early, so by trying to form a pair now you're outside your town range? It doesn't strike me as a very good argument.

in context let me explain what happened that game;


I was pushing Meg

Prism defended Meg,

I found Prism's defense scummy.

I hardshoved Meg through instead of pivoting for Prism.


I don't understand how this criticism applies to my actions this game where I am not shoving either Skitter or Prism.
Me neither
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Post Post #256 (isolation #26) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:05 pm

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Was your suspicion of skitter mech Ari? I thought it was her reaction to the mech, which is a different thing.
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Post Post #263 (isolation #27) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:07 pm

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In post 255, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 247, fireisredsir wrote:vp this seems like a weird thing to pick on ngl
Nah. You catch scum D1 in a game like this by looking for people acting awkward. Especially in a game with lots of killers like this, scum will have a hard time finding a rhythm immediately. They will misread intentions and try to act natural. There is a whole artiface to D1 as scum where you need to get in the flow.
Are you this intellectual pick on stuff from the sidelines person, or are you the MORE SKITTER VOTES, I LAUGH IN THE FACE OF YOUR WIMPY VOTE person? I'm getting all kinds of whiplash. Maybe you should check your PT for coaching.
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Post Post #278 (isolation #28) » Wed Apr 13, 2022 1:21 pm

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In post 275, Dwlee99 wrote:I'll go with keeping my prism and cephrir reads as is
Are you telling me that neither of us has done anything you find more alignment indicative than whatever each of us did on the first 2 pages?
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Post Post #431 (isolation #29) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:05 am

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In post 335, Aristeia wrote:I do like what you've done with your hair.

It's very fashion foward.
You almost got a laugh, but not quite. Keep trying!
In post 353, Datisi wrote:so i decided to open one of the pages i didn't read earlier and i see THIS and i'm like
In post 303, skitter30 wrote:Oh dear, i'm doing this all wrong apparently >.<

Anyways can we talk about how scummy vpb is being and how stilted he sounds ^
okay i think i get what my subconsciousness was trying to tell me

skitt's fight with baltar *really* reminds me of the fight she and i had very early on in the recently finished large normal where she wanted to pick a fight with me early but it's wasn't going exactly right so she kept being like "but guys look how scummy is datisi being look!!!" and like

this is very very much reminding me of that
This post read genuine to me. The rest of Datisi's posts didn't make me think anything in particular.
In post 409, VP Baltar wrote: Prism raised a good point that skitter was kind of sidelining in the Prism/Ari fight and not giving much of an opinion. I repeated this and skitter accused me of not taking much of a position (when I clearly stated early on that I think Ari looks better out of it).
Pot to kettle. Yes, you gave an opinion, but you were still very much happy on the sidelines. As I've alluded to previously, you haven't seemed inclined to get your hands dirty with much of anything.

skitter isn't screaming town to me like she has done in some past games, but granted, I was scum in all of those games and didn't actually have to read her.
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Post Post #432 (isolation #30) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:07 am

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In post 422, Prism wrote:I'm pretty ambivalent about a lot of the discussions.

Town
======
Enchant
VP Baltar
Aristeia
Dwlee99
skitter30
fireisred
Shuichi
Datisi
======
Scum

Between VP Baltar and skitter30 I'd vote skitter. His posts are about catching awkwardness/uncomfortable tone and posturing. He found skitter's content overwrought and her reaction to votes stilted. He's not town to me but I don't see this as scummy. I still find skitter's posturing around me/Aristeia questionable and disagree with Aristeia that she'd more explicitly jump into the fray as scum.

Bottom three can really go in any order. Datisi goes at the bottom because their catchup struck me as very arbitrary in trying to push. 341 on skitter and the followup about it was awful imo. The page 1 "I don't get this" when they just thought another possibility was questionable. 353 was okay.

fireisredsir and Shuichi like, exist. Shuichi definitely exists. fireisredsir has made some points that I look at and just go "OK". Dwlee I think is fine, but am used to much more passive play (Slaughter Hour, D&C) so maybe scum shrug.
What have you found town-indicative from Dwlee?
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Post Post #435 (isolation #31) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:18 am

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All of your townreads are strange and underwhelming :(
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Post Post #438 (isolation #32) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:29 am

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I found your VP Baltar townread strange because your comments on him in that post seem to indicate a null read. I have to assume it is in fact a townread since I asked why you townread Dwlee and you provided an answer, so you must townread everyone above them as well.

You spent most of today voting Aristeia so that's obviously a strange move.

Having Enchant as a top townread at this point strikes me as pretty silly. Maybe even intentionally silly. I thought you were supposed to be good at this game and I struggle to believe there's nothing as AI as that in these pages.

The Dwlee townread is strange to me because even the reason you gave seems pretty easy to fake. And I think they're scum at the moment so that's a factor.
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Post Post #441 (isolation #33) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:48 am

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In post 439, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 431, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Pot to kettle. Yes, you gave an opinion, but you were still very much happy on the sidelines. As I've alluded to previously, you haven't seemed inclined to get your hands dirty with much of anything.
This is a
bad
take.

How am I not "getting my hands dirty"? Or rather, what do you think I should be getting my hands dirty with more/have not commented on?
Stuff, in general!

Like I said earlier, I think you've been doing mainly passive sniping on subjects other than skitter, though she gets some of the "just throwing shade" posts as well like , which I also notice now is just a bad post in general for moving the goalposts.

Like, you said "I'm team Ari" and then didn't post about the subject anymore even though it was the main event. You could've supported Ari, for example.

Another example, you threw out a townread on Dwlee with no commentary. They're currently copping votes, so it would make sense to get in the trenches a little and explain that read.
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Post Post #442 (isolation #34) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:48 am

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In post 440, Prism wrote:If you really want me to walk through my entire progression with Aristeia I can but I think that it shouldn't be a surprise given my posts this morning.
Honestly no I would greatly prefer we collectively move on from that.
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Post Post #486 (isolation #35) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:32 am

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In post 485, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 267, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 213, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 203, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 34, VP Baltar wrote:Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.
I could just pick this post instead idk I'm right about what I said
its the fact that you said it and the example you gave doesn't support it. that makes me think you just pulled up his iso and grabbed a post that you thought supported your argument to add to your evidence pile. but if it was a genuine read then there was some actual post out there that informed that read, and you would have found that one instead
It does support it and I already knew I was right so I just grabbed the first post from each player's iso that was showing they were playing the game cause skitter was acting like no one was at that point which was not my impression at all when I read. I didn't read the thread marking down posts like "yea this one was doing stuff" I just knew people did and had to go find it
@shuchi - The reason I'm town reading dwlee is this exchange with Fire. I can see the intent of what dwlee was doing with the posts he picked, even as they were not necessarily the best examples. If you're scum, you just likely don't do this. You spend the extra 10 mins to find the best argument you can. As scum, I always feel more compelled to be meticulous in my posting. Here, Dwlee is trying to get a meaning across without necessarily having any self consciousness about the posts they are picking. The post they picked from me wasn't a great example, but I can see what Dwlee meant about that post being effort. (I am of course biased here because I KNOW what I was actually doing with that post, even as it looks fluffier on its face).
Interesting idea to come to a townread for that. When I see a defense, I'm usually thinking "is this good enough for me to drop the suspicion I had for the point being responded to." Unless you just mean the townread is for the very thing fire was scumreading, which I can understand.
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Post Post #491 (isolation #36) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:59 am

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In post 488, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 444, skitter30 wrote:You're also ignoring posts: 169, 211, 214, 240, 268, all of which contain commentary on their argument, and quite lot of which is before prism poked me.
Ok. If I'm being very generous, I can see how you feel maligned maybe. But there are a lot of weak takes in these posts too:

From post 169:
I dont really have thoughts on your claim / prism's role beyond: things will shake themselves out eventually

Post 211 is a little more substantial, so that's fair.

From post 214:
And i think prism
probably
believes what she's pushing ari for rn
This is all of post 240 you cite:
I dont know. I'm sure u can, that's just not the vibe i'm getting rn
Post 268 is you explaining Prism's argument to Ari when she said she didn't understand.


Like, these are your own examples, so I still think you're overstating your positions, but I acknowledge you might see this as more committed than I do.
I like that you were able to take this step back but dislike that reviewing the evidence didn't cause you to step back even further -- I hadn't looked at the posts skitter cited but overall they look like they pretty strongly support her point.
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Post Post #492 (isolation #37) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:59 am

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In post 490, Aristeia wrote:VP it feels like your dwlee read is rooted in how you specifically play mafia-alignment and not on any actual meta or read of how Dwlee plays.
Dwlee is scary.
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Post Post #520 (isolation #38) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:16 am

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Meh. But I cant be here much more today so I can't really turn that meh into a switch or a yes.
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Post Post #573 (isolation #39) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:15 pm

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In post 521, Prism wrote:I feel like I am going to have to meta all of Baltar, Cephir, and fireisredsir to have any idea how to read them and I straight up do not want to do that

My other idea is just burn the skitter and honestly good chance it works good but god help us all if it doesn't and that approach would probably tilt her off the end of the earth.
If you figure out how to read me, let me know. I have no idea.
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Post Post #575 (isolation #40) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:21 pm

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That only works this year! Grr.

Also sorry that Shuichi won't be providing as much entertainment.
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Post Post #576 (isolation #41) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:23 pm

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I think there's enough material for me to start trying, but is there enough motivation? Unclear. I guess we'll find out on my morning off tomorrow.
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Post Post #579 (isolation #42) » Thu Apr 14, 2022 4:34 pm

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Thanks. But shh, don't tell anyone, I need this whole "not actually good at town" facade for my scum game to work.

More seriously I think sometimes if I'd just believe in myself I'd actually be good. Then the doubts come rolling in.
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Post Post #614 (isolation #43) » Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:54 am

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In post 594, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 593, skitter30 wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82512

He's talking abt this one. I would again like to point out that its different from whatever he thinks i'm doing to you here, in that that one my partner was hevily under fire, so i just bussed hard (maybe after coming back from vla idk)

And this one if i'm partners with u i'd have just decided to randomly start bussing you as my first oush of the game, which i wouldnt do ...
Noted. I mean, I obviously know we aren't partners, so there is already a lack of merit there.

What I am looking for is the exact conditions the bussing started under. One of course busses when a buddy is going down regardless, which is definitely different than what datisi is describing, which is bus as an optimal strategy in micro games (which I don't agree with at all).

I'll give this a look later today. Thanks.
Why is this exercise interesting to you? Since as you pointed out, you should know skitter is not bussing you.
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Post Post #617 (isolation #44) » Fri Apr 15, 2022 5:58 am

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In post 612, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 94, Shuichi Saihara wrote:I think whether OMGUS is scummy or not depends on the person and how they do it.
What is your assessment of skitters OMGUS this game?
I think I'd need to reread your argument to answer this, which I should probably do anyway, although analyzing 1v1s is something I am not skilled at.
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Post Post #619 (isolation #45) » Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:00 am

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In post 616, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 614, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Why is this exercise interesting to you?
Because I want to understand Datisi's thought process to see if it's genuine or not.
Thought so and I'm astounded by the effort level.
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Post Post #627 (isolation #46) » Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:22 am

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my cat just died i don't think me posting today is a thing that's gonna happen anymore
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Post Post #723 (isolation #47) » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:01 am

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Hello, I'm going to try posting to distract myself. But the Shuichi Hat thing isn't happening today.
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Post Post #724 (isolation #48) » Fri Apr 15, 2022 11:14 am

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I caught up but I think I'm too fried to have much to say about it.

I'll just break character to say my gut still wants my vote where it is and I have fuckall to back that up right now.
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Post Post #787 (isolation #49) » Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:58 am

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In post 779, Dwlee99 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if enchant was scum just watching this go down
[dwlee vote intensifies]

THis is exactly what I expect scum to conclude here. It's lazy.
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Post Post #788 (isolation #50) » Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:00 am

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My to-review list is Dwlee, skitter, VP and maybe Prism, although the thought of rereading Prism's posts and trying to understand them all fills me with existential dread.
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Post Post #804 (isolation #51) » Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:17 am

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In post 792, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 787, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 779, Dwlee99 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if enchant was scum just watching this go down
[dwlee vote intensifies]

THis is exactly what I expect scum to conclude here. It's lazy.
Do you expect me to not think it is /possible/ enchant is just vibing through this as scum? Conclude is a uh very strong word for my post
No, but I do expect you to develop more interesting takes. I think it's possible too, but I don't really care right now.
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Post Post #820 (isolation #52) » Sat Apr 16, 2022 12:53 pm

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In post 808, Dwlee99 wrote:I think Prism is mildly townie but I wouldn't mind flipping cause ascetic claim + scary + novice mailman
In post 809, Aristeia wrote:What have you found mildly townie about Prism?
In post 810, Dwlee99 wrote:
their tilt
no uh I liked their read on Enchant but only if enchant is actually town.
In post 818, Dwlee99 wrote:Kill enchant pls
So you're telling me that your Prism townread is based on Enchant being town, but you're sure enough about Enchant scum to want to kill him... so how does the Prism read make sense again?
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Post Post #834 (isolation #53) » Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:57 am

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In post 831, Dwlee99 wrote:Does anyone actually think Enchant is townie
I have literally no idea how to determine Enchant's alignment ever.
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Post Post #838 (isolation #54) » Sun Apr 17, 2022 9:23 am

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Datisi is town. Would not recommend that vote.
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Post Post #977 (isolation #55) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:15 am

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In post 917, fireisredsir wrote:why is it ridiculous? people can be logically correct and scum at the same time. you are very often. im not tryna be pedantic here i actually think this is somewhat significant since you are strongly dismissing a suspicion for something that i think is clearly invalid. so i want you to explain more in detail what your thought process is on this point
I agree with this and I suspect dwlee so you know it's legit.
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Post Post #979 (isolation #56) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:20 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 945, Aristeia wrote:
In post 944, Enchant wrote:Let's go from opposite.

Why i need to vote prism again?
I think Prism is mafia because of mechanics and dayplay.



Mechanically speaking - I don't think it makes sense to have a town novice mailman and a town ascetic in a micro - you're setting up a very natural conflict to occur almost immediately because the mailman will think they are supposed to catch the ascetic and the ascetic is actually a mafia ascetic - you are immediately putting the town down one elim a large number of times and I don't see how you can compensate the town with another PR to offset this in a micro since our margin of error is very slim - we functionally usually only get 3 mislims total.

Also I don't think the setup makes sense for a town ascetic and a mafia ascetic because town ascetic claiming on D1 is going to draw out the mailman claim which then can't really find the mafia ascetic because the mailman will just get killed at night.

also novice mailman is an extremely weak role - functionally the only thing it can do is find a mafia ascetic that did not claim. You can't really set up a code to exchange claim or fake claim since by the time the message is sent, you're at D3 which is elo if we do not hit a mafia in d1/d2.

also like novice mailman is not a role that when claimed makes you town or w/e - it's not like a friendly neighbor or a mason in terms of power level that can prove itself.

I think in Micros, the power level of the town roles should be usually mason equivalent - as in 2 masons v 2 mafia 5 VT is a baseline level of balance.

so I just have trouble believing that a novice mailman role would have no utility or be purposefully a red herring to get a TvT conflict on D1 it's just silly in terms of balancing a micro. I can see a miller in a larger game like a Mini or a Large but in a Micro it just feels much too scumsided for me to accept.

Why does Prism claim ascetic as a mafia ascetic? - I think she has some expectation that she will be targeted at night. She enjoys playing mafia but she absolutely hates mechanical guilties with a passion - I think she has a strong enough reputation that nearly any TPR worth their salt would target her on night one and she knows this - I think she decided to claim it because why not? I don't think she expected a role as niche as "novice mailman" to exist on the TPR side - mechanically it pigeonholes her slot as mafia - that's why her initial kneejerk reaction was to hardpush me as mafia who was headhunting her etc by making up such a claim. I don't think I'm nearly creative enough to make up such a role to target her because I'm not a very bright person.

I am unsure exactly why she switched tack later on in the day - I believe she thinks maybe it is difficult to flip me or perhaps I would leave her alone if she townreads me and uses AtE.

On her dayplay I think she is decidedly less sharp than she usually is and it feels like she's more in anti-spew mode where she's just bantering and having fun rather than actually trying to push/hunt seriously which I know she is extremely good at.

I think she's taken this line of play as scum rather than her usual extremely strong and thread dominant style because she knows that I have certain expectations of how she plays mafia and she is trying to get townread off of indifference[yes I actually townread her when she's bored and joking I know it's stupid]

The overall feeling I get from reading her play this game is that she's more interested in surviving, giving few hints about associatives and not really interested in actually pushing/killing anyone she suspects, she feels like she is browsing through a brochure for like which hat to wear.
For the mech stuff- it looks like scum should be informed or have some hint about this interaction, too. I see it as strange in either case.

If anyone has another explanation for the mailman existing, they might want to say so, unless they're something really powerful.

I agree that Prism's day play has not felt sharp. I don't have much of a baseline for her save reputation, but my impression is that scum should be quivering in their boots with terror, and she has not been giving them any reason to do that so far.
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Post Post #994 (isolation #57) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:48 am

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UNVOTE: so the day can't randomly end before i'm ready
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Post Post #995 (isolation #58) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:49 am

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In post 993, Datisi wrote:i can buy that i am feeling off this game

that does not change the fact that i think you often scumread me for nonsense that is firmly part of my towngame

i don't think scum attacks enchant when nobody is scumreading them or enchnat and it's obviously gonna be looked down upon bc hurr durr lhf
My (minimal) experience with Dwlee makes me think they could do it to evoke this exact thought process.
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #59) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:16 am

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Shuichi attempts to get his head in the game. It's not very effective. Shuichi became confused!
In post 32, skitter30 wrote:
In post 9, Prism wrote:I'm ascetic.
I want to give townpoints to this except i think scum-prism probably claims it too?
In post 36, skitter30 wrote:
In post 10, Prism wrote:Shockingly that is actually +town for Enchant because he's not reading the fake PM as scum lmao
Idk if scum claims it right out the gate, i think town nearly always does (or at least town who's moderately experienced, whatever)
In post 99, skitter30 wrote:Mailman is the one where you send messages at night?

I'm not sure that's damning for prism tbh
In post 196, skitter30 wrote:I'm not sure 'satisfied' is the right word, more a combo of:
Their thouhht could be plausible and i'm feeling a bit worse abt vpb now

~

I dont really have thoughts on this ari/prism thing, i think they can plausibly be tvt
There's a lot of hedging here. 32 doesn't do anything besides try to look town -- as I write this, I'm thinking the entire concept of "I want to townread X, but I won't" is scummy, which is an original thing that's coming up for me right now; it looks like a town thought process but avoids committing to any read. 196 calls the conflict TvT without really calling it TvT ("I don't really have thoughts, except here are my thoughts"). "I'm not sure that damning" reads similarly, and "I don't think" would have served just as nicely in that slot meaning-wise.

I do not immediately recall what pushed VPB to go on here early, but if we were at post 200 now, I would go for it.
In post 121, skitter30 wrote:
In post 114, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 89, skitter30 wrote:Vpb why are u wagoning me?
You're having too many SERIOUS reads based on meh things.
You realize i can *very* easily bounce this read back at you, right?

And also i think you're vastly overestimating the strength of my reads ar present
The phrasing of "you realize I can" substantially changes the tone here. It could be a point about hypocrisy, but instead it is a threat. Granted, I am unsure what scum would hope to gain by threatening a townie.

Welcome to Pedantry Hour, evidently. More to come.

More general comment, skitter doesn't seem interested in explaining her reads at this point, only stating them. I can chalk this up to her being in an airport though.
In post 211, skitter30 wrote:I have yes. I'm not convinced either of u are scum

I dont think ari enters the game claiming novice mailman and uses that to push you (/ me) - while scum-her might want to push us two, i dont think she thinks this would br a particularly convincing/winning path

I dont have a strong read on you, but i similarly dont think you beinf ascetic is inherently scum indicative

We can at least say you're probably not scum together, i suppose
In post 214, skitter30 wrote:And i think prism probably believes what she's pushing ari for rn

Vpb these posts are kinda sus ngl, especially since they form the bulk of your content; i have a hard time believing you believe that ...
In post 268, skitter30 wrote:
In post 248, Prism wrote:My argument is that you previously went on a snipehunt chasing my partner before me in the Mini Normal. I don't think you even start on that path again and just focus squarely on me.

Your response to this was that you understood the connection. However you didn't spend that much time on it, and you weren't actually voting skitter. In comparison, you actually wound up forcing my "partner" through first in the other game as you were already there. This distinction is a mitigating response with further depth of context, not a complete rejection.

Perhaps you are in fact town and this distinction critical. Acting like there's obviously no real connection and it's irrational from my end to expect this makes me suspect it is in bad faith.
You're behaving differently than how town-prism thinks you would behave here - namely, she doesn't think you would start a push on a teamread involving here again after the events of that game
/ you would keep the events of last game in mind as you make fhis push here

You're not and she finds this suspicious

I dont know wjat the events of last game are so i really couldnt say if this is a reasonable expectation or not
These thoughts are all just... so basic and obvious. Scum might even not post them because they're so uninteresting and level zero/probably the first thing one would think of.

I know that Aris asked someone to help her understand what was happening but choosing to take the role of Chief Explainer is busywork scum can do to look helpful.

I swear if I were finding town aspects I would post them too... I just didn't find any so far. After I finish here I should do VPB, if he was going at any of the same stuff I am then I should rethink how I viewed his line of play at the start.

pedit: hi pedits!
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Post Post #1009 (isolation #60) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:17 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

@fire give my thunder back

ignore than my post was not actually that thunderous
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Post Post #1010 (isolation #61) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:17 am

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In post 1003, skitter30 wrote:Hard game is hard >.>
I already hate myself for asking this, but what is with the excess of <.< faces from you?
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Post Post #1012 (isolation #62) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:19 am

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In post 1005, fireisredsir wrote:another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread
Good point.
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Post Post #1020 (isolation #63) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:27 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 308, skitter30 wrote:
In post 304, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 303, skitter30 wrote:Oh dear, i'm doing this all wrong apparently >.<

Anyways can we talk about how scummy vpb is being and how stilted he sounds ^
Stilted?
You're asking the wrong questions, commenting on things that are kinda irrelevant, and your read on me is bad and way too strong for the reasoning you're giving, and you're reacting kinda off to me/people pointing that out

Pedit what do u mean by 'setup' in this context?

(Fun fact! My flight got delayed by a full 4 hours!)
I want to remember to see how true this was.
In post 311, skitter30 wrote:
In post 309, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 308, skitter30 wrote:Pedit what do u mean by 'setup' in this context?
9p packed with good town.

Who are the people "pointing it out" besides you?

Also, my questions are on fucking point. As opposed to you, who provided zero commentary on the main event of the game so far (ari/prism)Prism, and just omgused me on basically the same thing I called you out about.

(Sorry bout your flight though, that sucks)
- fire/ceph have both said similar things as me, i dont believe you've responded to anything either has said

- i actually have made several posts on the main event of the game, including a long one literally on the bottom of the previous page explaining my thoughts.

Have your thoughts on ari/prism developed beyond this?
In post 181, VP Baltar wrote:I am team Ari in this dispute.
I would actually argue that you've made less meaningul commentary than me on the main event of the game, so kinda galling that you come scumreading me for things that you're doing to a bigger extreme yourself
Now that fire has returned to the fore the idea that this post could be theater, I cannot unsee it. The fact that VP ignored those posts from fire/me to keep responding to skitter suggests an intentional focus. I had an issue with the strength of that skitter push at the time as it felt unnatural, and I've been fobbed off with some excuses by now but I'm no longer certain I believe them.
In post 340, skitter30 wrote:
In post 339, Datisi wrote:assuming the words "dats" and "like" are supposed to be switched around, (1) why do you choose this to say now? (2) why?
Usually in the beginning of games i try to say whatever comes to mind, however slight - doing so tends to generate content, which is nice early on

(You know this ...)

For your second question - i was questioning why my scumpings were 'bad and wrong', i'm not sure what you're objecting to
It is somewhat disturbing to me to consider that this has been skitter saying whatever comes to mind at this point. It does explain the super basic thoughts I tagged earlier, but if all her posts to this point have been pretty off the cuff and not holding anything back, why are they so insubstantial (e.g. "I don't like dats post"... ok why? Sounds like nothing is being withheld, so did the thoughts even exist?)

Suspending this for a moment because STD is on a work call with a person with a piercing voice and I can't hear myself think.
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Post Post #1022 (isolation #64) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:28 am

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In post 1018, skitter30 wrote:-- i think if i'm pushing *him* i keep it going quite a while longer
It wasn't working, so I don't see why.
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Post Post #1024 (isolation #65) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:29 am

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If you are town and want me to give scum-dats the time of day as a concept, I need more.
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Post Post #1053 (isolation #66) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:18 am

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In post 362, skitter30 wrote:
In post 360, Datisi wrote:
In post 356, skitter30 wrote:How are you reading him?
besides +partner with you, i am not
Then i suggest that you endeavor to form a read on him, his iso is p empty and easy to read ... ^

And fwiw i am formally scumreading now too ...
I don't think I've ever seen someone use the phrase "formally scumreading" before and the most likely brain-corner I can see it coming from is a hyperawareness of one's own trajectory.
In post 407, skitter30 wrote: - i object to the characterization of my push on you as a 'complaint about an early game wagon on me'
Yeah... so do I.
In post 444, skitter30 wrote:@vpb: you commented on my apparent lack of commentary on ari/prism in , and this is what you argued:
In post 309, VP Baltar wrote:Also, my questions are on fucking point. As opposed to you, who provided zero commentary on the main event of the game so far (ari/prism)Prism, and just omgused me on basically the same thing I called you out about.
And in 409 you literally quote two differnet posts where i discuss it prior to that point, so that is not an accurate claim in the slightest. You're also ignoring posts: , , , , , all of which contain commentary on their argument, and quite lot of which is before prism poked me.

You arguing that i have no commentary on the argument is somewhere on the sliding scale of ignorance, willful ignorance, and outright misrepresenration, and i'm leaning towards the latter given the tone/vibe of 409.

Also after me pointing out that i actually do have content on this topic, and that your original claim is incorrect, you changed your argument to me not having content about it *until prism poked me about it*, which is not what you were originally dinging me for, i will note as well. I guess you think this is an easier argument for you to win tho
In post 448, skitter30 wrote:
In post 418, VP Baltar wrote:You keep bringing this up, why?
Me, ceph, and fire all made similar criticisms of your posts so far. You're only scumreading me for it, however. To me, rhat implies that your read on me isnt real, because if you were inherently concerned with my line of questioning, you would be asking fire/ceph about *their* line of questio ning as well, bur you're not. You're all but ignoring their pushes on you
In post 494, skitter30 wrote:@vpb: sooooooo had you even read my posts when you said that i had no commentary on the ari/prism thing?

Also now that you've read them, you're moving the goalposts from: zero commentary on the argument to none until prism prodded me to my posts about the argument were weak ...

Also 240 is a direct response to 238, where prism questioned how i was reading her based on the ari/prism argument ...
Worthy of checking VPB's posts to assess accuracy but I recall agreeing with these at the time so they're likely valid. Not sure whether it was here or somewhere else, but I had a moving-goalposts issue with VPB too, and I typically don't excel at noticing things like that.
In post 452, skitter30 wrote:
In post 449, Dwlee99 wrote:I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not
It is ridiculous of you, yes
This post has already been lambasted appropriately, but I'm choosing to note again that it is challenging to see it as real. Refuge in logic is a scum tactic everyone learns about on their first day playing mafia.
In post 463, skitter30 wrote:
In post 459, Datisi wrote:
In post 452, skitter30 wrote:
In post 449, Dwlee99 wrote:I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not
It is ridiculous of you, yes
does this imply that skitter is claiming she cannot be logically correct as scum? wild
Why is this what you're popping in to comment on >.>
And i dont think that's what i'm implying?
Pedit yes plz do, in particular 409 which i feel is incredibly misreppy
In post 482, skitter30 wrote:Dats ... >.>
That post has so many issues with it i dont even know where to begin
I noticed these two shifty-eye faces around Datisi and it made me wonder if they're emblematic of guilt over pushing Datisi. Could be town guilt from not wanting to doubt your friend, perhaps. There's obviously a preexisting relationship here. This is basic of me, but nonetheless. If I could use the search function on this, I would.
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Post Post #1056 (isolation #67) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:23 am

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In post 524, skitter30 wrote:
In post 521, Prism wrote:My other idea is just burn the skitter and honestly good chance it works good but god help us all if it doesn't and that approach would probably tilt her off the end of the earth.
I mean it probably wont *tilt* me but i'll make it my mission before i go to get all of u to strongly consider vpb and dats afterwards
I am reading this iso and I barely know why you suspect Datisi so much. You've been on it for literally half the game, but whatever the concern is has been at least pretty muted up until this point. Probably this is also a failure of mine to investigate thoroughly enough, but surely it must merit some volume by now.
In post 664, skitter30 wrote:I would also like to note that i am still somewhat sus of dwlee
In post 667, skitter30 wrote:And upon reflection, i'm less confident in town-ari than i was ro begin with

Pedit i actually think i would egg it on as tvt as scum. Like pick a side and just make it a bigger thing
Kinda weird how you and ari are coming to opposite conclusions about what i would do but still both scumread me
In post 652, skitter30 wrote:
In post 647, Prism wrote:Call it gut but I really don't think VP Baltar is scum
Fwiw i am probably getting over this read
I don't understand why none of this comes with reasons.
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Post Post #1058 (isolation #68) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:27 am

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I do like that skitter has not given in and pushed Enchant for survival.
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Post Post #1059 (isolation #69) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:28 am

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In post 983, skitter30 wrote:He feels so off tho >.>

But fine

VOTE: dwlee

That's the third vote btw ^
On the other hand, this could have done the trick if I'm wrong about Dwlee, especially with Enchant in the game.
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Post Post #1067 (isolation #70) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:39 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1021, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1008, Shuichi Saihara wrote:There's a lot of hedging here. 32 doesn't do anything besides try to look town -- as I write this, I'm thinking the entire concept of "I want to townread X, but I won't" is scummy, which is an original thing that's coming up for me right now; it looks like a town thought process but avoids committing to any read. 196 calls the conflict TvT without really calling it TvT ("I don't really have thoughts, except here are my thoughts"). "I'm not sure that damning" reads similarly, and "I don't think" would have served just as nicely in that slot meaning-wise.
You can call it hedging sure, but that's just how i normally talk/type
Possibly true. And you'd think I'd be sympathetic as I'm so frequently guilty of this myself. I don't remember seeing as much of it in Radio Buzz, which is as close as I have to a model.
In post 1026, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1024, Shuichi Saihara wrote:If you are town and want me to give scum-dats the time of day as a concept, I need more.
If you want to give me like 4 hours, sure

Part lf it tho is that i dont think town-dats doubles down on me here ^

Pedit dats why are u even scumreadinf me exactly? Your whole trajectory on me rhis game is waffling in accordance with how big the game on me is
I'm in no hurry. There are several more players I want to investigate before I decide who I want to elim today, and I'm likely only going to do 0 or 1 more today.
In post 1027, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1008, Shuichi Saihara wrote:These thoughts are all just... so basic and obvious. Scum might even not post them because they're so uninteresting and level zero/probably the first thing one would think of.
I would also like to point out that i repeatedly said at the time that i didnt really have thoughts, but was asked to produce some anyways

Dinging me for having unsatisfactory thoughts when i said that i didnt have any is just kinda ....
In post 1033, skitter30 wrote:Ok dats:
- he's exuding a vibe of 'i hate this game' which i think strongly correlates with scum-him, ari agrees that he has this vibe but was telling me it isnt scum-indicative so i backed off. I still strongly think this is +scum for him
- his reads are incidental and dont make sense, ex: prism read, ex: read on me
-- read on me has been waffle-y and he keeps changing it, often in accordance with how big my wagon is / how easy i am to push
-- i dont think he sincerely scumreads me here. His read basically boils down to 'i'm scumreading him for nonsense' *while acknowledging* that he thinks town-me has often done that before
-- even if that is his read on me, i dont think town-him chooses to push me for that reason on day1, whereas scum-him will absolutely take advantage of the existing wagon
- in general the rest of his reads are incidental and weak (if they exist at all) ... his dwlee read is that he doesnt think scum-dwlee pushes enchant today which is just ???? why is that even remotely town indicative ... ???

I would like people to look into this more please ^
Harrumph. Expecting me to do the work!
In post 1035, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1033, skitter30 wrote:- he's exuding a vibe of 'i hate this game' which i think strongly correlates with scum-him, ari agrees that he has this vibe but was telling me it isnt scum-indicative so i backed off. I still strongly think this is +scum for him
Also dats was scumreading me *for thinking he had this vibe*, but when it was objectively noted that he has this vibe (i.e. i'm not just making it up), he's still scumreading me for accusing him of this, which doesnt make sense
In post 1052, skitter30 wrote:
In post 967, Datisi wrote:i have no clue why you're saying i'm having existential dread when i was interrogating prism about her read on me

because (1) do you disagree that i was wrong about her push on me being weird and lawyery? she agreed with that (2) I ALWAYS INTERROGATE PEOPLE WHEN I FEEL THEIR READ ON ME IS SHIT

like you scumread me for this in one scumgame and then you scumread me for it in a towngame and it's like FAM that's just how i solve so what's the issue

what's the existential dread here
Ur issue earlier was me saying that you had any existential dread to begin with

It later changed to 'fine i may have existential dread but i dont like you saying it'

And i'm saying you:
- didnt explain why its scummy for me to think that
- should have reevaluated between point 1 and point 2 upon receiving the information that you are in fact giving off that vibe (i.e. and consider hiw that might affect my read on you) but instead you just jumped to 'well you're scummy for thinking that anyways', which is partly why i think you're manufacturing this read, because *in context* it makes sense for me to think this about your play, but you're skipping over the checkpoint of 'does this make sense' to continue to find reasons to scumread me
Uh oh, this feels important but I'm getting into eye-glaze 1v1 mode.
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Post Post #1070 (isolation #71) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:43 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1061, skitter30 wrote:Uh ceph, you're kinda painting my posts in (what i feel to be) a needlessly uncharitabe light, multiple times in these wallposts, some examples including:

I make >.>'s all the time as both alignments in all sorts of contexts, and i have a long history of doing so across multiple games. Picking two out of the multiple i've made in this game to ascribe guilt is ?
That instance just stood out to me. You're right that there are plenty more and I have done no research to see whether you do that in every game. I'm just posting my thoughts as I have them right now. I'm not trying to arrive at any particular conclusion. Why did you end this post with a question mark instead of just calling me scum when that is clearly what you want to say?
And you may not like that i havent elaborated upon my reasons for my reads, but failing to do so is not inherently scum-indicative, and i believe you ought to know that ...
'Formally scumread' also a phrase i believe i have said multiple times in a variery of games, basically just to indicate the read is 'official' now

I'm mot sure there's anything you particularly want me to respond to tho
You did say at the start of the game (and I'd say this is still early game) that you just post whatever pops into your head, or something similar to this. That makes me think that it would be reasonable to expect reasons from you. I'm aware that some players just throw reads out sometimes; I have not previously found you to be that type of person.

There is nothing I particularly want a response to. I'm generally uninterested in defenses unless they provide new information or clarify something I genuinely misunderstood.
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Post Post #1071 (isolation #72) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:45 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1063, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1059, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 983, skitter30 wrote:He feels so off tho >.>

But fine

VOTE: dwlee

That's the third vote btw ^
On the other hand, this could have done the trick if I'm wrong about Dwlee, especially with Enchant in the game.
No? I would have unvoted if it reached e1 with enchant in the game. And if i were trying to hasten the wagon i wouldnt havr counted the votes or announced the e1 ...

What exactly are you trying to imply here?
You could hardly guarantee you would see the thread before enchant, but sure, whatever.

I was implying that my townpoint for not going for enchant should be withdrawn as you were going after something as plausible, perhaps more plausible, to go through.
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Post Post #1077 (isolation #73) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:49 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1072, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1067, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Harrumph. Expecting me to do the work!
Uh, yeah actually. I dont think that's an unreasonable request at all, to expect you to read the posts where i explain my dats read immediately after you complain i havent explained my dats read

And hey a cursory cntrl-f of the firsf page of my iso in radio buzz guves 18 >.>'s so
I mean that you're expecting me to go through Datisi's iso for the receipts. And that's fine, it's just not going to be high on my priority list.
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Post Post #1084 (isolation #74) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:59 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

I don't understand why Enchant is on E-1 and that troubles me.
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Post Post #1096 (isolation #75) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:03 am

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In post 1031, Datisi wrote:VOTE: enchant???
??? is right!
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Post Post #1098 (isolation #76) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:03 am

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In post 1046, Aristeia wrote:she probably will hate winning this way as scum more than I will hate losing to her as town.

so I think I'm fine with this outcome.

VOTE: Enchant
I find this first sentence underwhelming.
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Post Post #1108 (isolation #77) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:06 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1093, Enchant wrote:Either way, i am 1-Shot Bunyip.

Don't ask why i am Bunyip, seems like mod considers this normal role. Or it's normal role. Do i care?

(I can once target someone and discover if they are Vanilla or Not, if vanilla, i protect them from kills).

That's reason why i tended to believe claims tbh, false positives.
I... sort of buy that this game could have a role that interacts with vanilla-ness. I suspect this is thus either real or a mod-provided fake.
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Post Post #1112 (isolation #78) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:07 am

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In post 1099, Prism wrote:Chipping in to say I don't believe that.

My role is completely standard and normal. I can't speak for Aristeia's but there's no weird flavoring attached. That role would iirc be called Simple Doctor
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bunyip

There's a difference between this and a simple doctor.
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Post Post #1121 (isolation #79) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:12 am

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That seems to more or less guarantee this is in {real, trueclaiming scum, mod-provided fake}

Do we think this clicks well with Enchant's earlier apparent thought that the game has a vig?
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Post Post #1174 (isolation #80) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:47 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1168, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 979, Shuichi Saihara wrote:I agree that Prism's day play has not felt sharp. I don't have much of a baseline for her save reputation, but my impression is that scum should be quivering in their boots with terror, and she has not been giving them any reason to do that so far.
What is your read on prism again?
Limbo. I think the mech stuff is a mild point against her and her play hasn't made a huge impression on me, but I find her posts especially difficult to read so I feel like I don't even know what is in her iso. Half of my reads atp are "I don't even remember what this person has posted" and I'm in the process of making an effort to fix that.
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Post Post #1187 (isolation #81) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:49 pm

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In post 1182, VP Baltar wrote:Suichi, do you think this post is indicative of your scumhunting? I read this and it reads like poking at things without actually coming to any kind of opinion on any of them. I know you said you're feeling at a loss for reads or whatever, but I'm just trying to understand what the intended outcome of a post like this is from your perspective. What were you aiming to achieve here?

Spoiler:
In post 1053, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 362, skitter30 wrote:
In post 360, Datisi wrote:
In post 356, skitter30 wrote:How are you reading him?
besides +partner with you, i am not
Then i suggest that you endeavor to form a read on him, his iso is p empty and easy to read ... ^

And fwiw i am formally scumreading now too ...
I don't think I've ever seen someone use the phrase "formally scumreading" before and the most likely brain-corner I can see it coming from is a hyperawareness of one's own trajectory.
In post 407, skitter30 wrote: - i object to the characterization of my push on you as a 'complaint about an early game wagon on me'
Yeah... so do I.
In post 444, skitter30 wrote:@vpb: you commented on my apparent lack of commentary on ari/prism in , and this is what you argued:
In post 309, VP Baltar wrote:Also, my questions are on fucking point. As opposed to you, who provided zero commentary on the main event of the game so far (ari/prism)Prism, and just omgused me on basically the same thing I called you out about.
And in 409 you literally quote two differnet posts where i discuss it prior to that point, so that is not an accurate claim in the slightest. You're also ignoring posts: , , , , , all of which contain commentary on their argument, and quite lot of which is before prism poked me.

You arguing that i have no commentary on the argument is somewhere on the sliding scale of ignorance, willful ignorance, and outright misrepresenration, and i'm leaning towards the latter given the tone/vibe of 409.

Also after me pointing out that i actually do have content on this topic, and that your original claim is incorrect, you changed your argument to me not having content about it *until prism poked me about it*, which is not what you were originally dinging me for, i will note as well. I guess you think this is an easier argument for you to win tho
In post 448, skitter30 wrote:
In post 418, VP Baltar wrote:You keep bringing this up, why?
Me, ceph, and fire all made similar criticisms of your posts so far. You're only scumreading me for it, however. To me, rhat implies that your read on me isnt real, because if you were inherently concerned with my line of questioning, you would be asking fire/ceph about *their* line of questio ning as well, bur you're not. You're all but ignoring their pushes on you
In post 494, skitter30 wrote:@vpb: sooooooo had you even read my posts when you said that i had no commentary on the ari/prism thing?

Also now that you've read them, you're moving the goalposts from: zero commentary on the argument to none until prism prodded me to my posts about the argument were weak ...

Also 240 is a direct response to 238, where prism questioned how i was reading her based on the ari/prism argument ...
Worthy of checking VPB's posts to assess accuracy but I recall agreeing with these at the time so they're likely valid. Not sure whether it was here or somewhere else, but I had a moving-goalposts issue with VPB too, and I typically don't excel at noticing things like that.
In post 452, skitter30 wrote:
In post 449, Dwlee99 wrote:I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not
It is ridiculous of you, yes
This post has already been lambasted appropriately, but I'm choosing to note again that it is challenging to see it as real. Refuge in logic is a scum tactic everyone learns about on their first day playing mafia.
In post 463, skitter30 wrote:
In post 459, Datisi wrote:
In post 452, skitter30 wrote:
In post 449, Dwlee99 wrote:I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not
It is ridiculous of you, yes
does this imply that skitter is claiming she cannot be logically correct as scum? wild
Why is this what you're popping in to comment on >.>
And i dont think that's what i'm implying?
Pedit yes plz do, in particular 409 which i feel is incredibly misreppy
In post 482, skitter30 wrote:Dats ... >.>
That post has so many issues with it i dont even know where to begin
I noticed these two shifty-eye faces around Datisi and it made me wonder if they're emblematic of guilt over pushing Datisi. Could be town guilt from not wanting to doubt your friend, perhaps. There's obviously a preexisting relationship here. This is basic of me, but nonetheless. If I could use the search function on this, I would.
That is me attempting to scumhunt, yes. In the end I came away with a lean-scum read.

I did an iso with no particular aim in mind and dumped my thoughts as I went. It is useful for me to do and I may as well show my process if I'm going to be doing it anyway.
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Post Post #1244 (isolation #82) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:17 pm

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1242, Prism wrote:
In post 979, Shuichi Saihara wrote:For the mech stuff-
it looks like scum should be informed or have some hint about this interaction
, too. I see it as strange in either case.
?
In post 979, Shuichi Saihara wrote:If anyone has another explanation for the mailman existing, they might want to say so, unless they're something really powerful.
????? We literally have 3 PR claims Day 1, how many more do you want?
I think it's pretty normal for an uninformed scum ascetic to claim ascetic. If it's valid setup spec that Ari's role makes an ascetic claim obviously guilty, that's stupid setup design, and I want the setup to be not stupid.

Is a novice mailman really even reasonable to call a power role? And Enchant was not out when I made that post.
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Post Post #1255 (isolation #83) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:43 pm

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In post 1253, Prism wrote:focused on tone
Seems like you aren't going to like my gameplay, like, at all then.
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Post Post #1257 (isolation #84) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:44 pm

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In post 1253, Prism wrote:unaccompanied by a vote
I have no intention of voting for anyone right now as there is still work I want to get done first
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Post Post #1315 (isolation #85) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:20 pm

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I wish I were Cephrir so I could just talk shit to everyone instead of trying. This game is too hard.
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Post Post #1337 (isolation #86) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:29 pm

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im afraid to say that this sequence looks real and is also maybe the first time i've understood what prism was even saying because aristeia might show up to my house with a knife, a rope, a revolver, a lead pipe, a wrench, and a candlestick
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Post Post #1350 (isolation #87) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:56 pm

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In post 1344, Aristeia wrote:I should've just stayed in bed.

Coming back to this thread was a shitty idea.

Shuichi I told you to yell at me if I came back tonight.
ah sorry i'm usually good about this
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Post Post #1352 (isolation #88) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:06 pm

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the fence is comfy
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Post Post #1359 (isolation #89) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:02 pm

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go to bed ari
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Post Post #1360 (isolation #90) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:03 pm

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i chuckled tho
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Post Post #1423 (isolation #91) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:40 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

Not gonna pull these posts, but the start of the game fire is just kind of there not really doing anything for a while.
In post 213, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 203, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 34, VP Baltar wrote:Zero points for claiming ascetic. that's basic moves.
I could just pick this post instead idk I'm right about what I said
its the fact that you said it and the example you gave doesn't support it. that makes me think you just pulled up his iso and grabbed a post that you thought supported your argument to add to your evidence pile. but if it was a genuine read then there was some actual post out there that informed that read, and you would have found that one instead
Not planning to relitigate this whole Dwlee thing, but I think this shows layered thought.
In post 272, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 255, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 247, fireisredsir wrote:vp this seems like a weird thing to pick on ngl
Nah. You catch scum D1 in a game like this by looking for people acting awkward. Especially in a game with lots of killers like this, scum will have a hard time finding a rhythm immediately. They will misread intentions and try to act natural. There is a whole artiface to D1 as scum where you need to get in the flow.
well if thats the case, then i think you're the one who feels the most awkward and having a hard time finding a rhythm
I don't really enjoy mindmelding as a tell but I was thinking the same thing. I wonder whether this "awkward" theme has made it to VP's present.

Since I already got to the end of reading fire's iso and landed on probably town, and thinking about what people have said about me being uncharitable towards skitter, I wonder whether this exercise is just exposing gut-reads I wasn't ready to admit I had. But uh, please enjoy the Shuichi-flavored candy coating I've provided for them, nonetheless.
In post 337, fireisredsir wrote:that reminds me, i think dwlee was talking about a datisi/vp team?

surely in that case datisi is excited and stays up past his bedtime to knock out some theatre in the early thread first

same goes for datisi/ari probably
I didn't especially agree with this, but it's thoughtful.
In post 640, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 626, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 133, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 120, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Novice mailman is a pretty strange role no doubt. Why is a mailman so good it needs to be nerfed?
it seems to me like a lot of closed setups have at least one role that on some level is "the mods messing with players who try to setup spec"
You have examples that come to mind for you?
dwlee was a backup vig in a game with no vig

idk i feel like it happens a lot, mods don't like people being able to solve their setups so they mess with expectations
This is an avenue that hasn't been brought up a lot, but it seems to me like scum with not-prism should be happy to hop on this mech thing. Did anyone really do that? One could argue skitter did the opposite to look town, but she's retread the ground enough times that I think she probably just earnestly does not believe the mech stuff is a slam dunk even if she's scum.
In post 875, fireisredsir wrote:my only real townreads are ari and shuichi if that wasn't already clear
I was surprised to see anyone townreading me highly at this point. I would be a pretty good choice for a pocket target for a scum fire. I am pocketable and all the more so by his archetype of player. Remind me to bring up something else around this point later.

I can acknowledge that there might be elements of personality reading setting me askew this game. Trying to maintain a healthy sphere of paranoia.
In post 1005, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 712, VP Baltar wrote:I don't love that basically the entire player list supports a skitter lim
i can't remember if anyone talked about this but i think it's bad for several reasons

one is that this is a 9p, its not like 2 scum are gonna have a large social influence on the game if one of them is being run up. the 1 partner could be one of the people who is like "yeah skitter kinda scummy" but not really pushing there, or it could be they already decided skitter is going down and are bussing, or it could be enchant who hasn't really given any reads

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

and vp's progression on skitter kinda makes me think that the team is just vp/skitt and they were like haha let's make an early push for pressure and towncred bc skitter is a strong player who can handle it and won't get limmed, oh oops, people actually agreed, ahhh, what now, find somewhere else to push

and skitter voting datisi when that seemed to be the likely push but then now switching to dwlee is just... kinda scummy

so i guess what im saying is

VOTE: skitter

let's bring this one back
He said it first, but I do like that his attention happened to turn to skitter at roughly the same time I started thinking about her and I don't think anything clearly prompted that. It could be a coincidence but yeah.

I really agree with the point that 2 scum can only do so much to influence a game state, as well. I think this is something I see people worrying about an unreasonable amount in general, but it's especially true here, and since there are only 2, their awareness of moving in lockstep is likely to be higher.
In post 1054, fireisredsir wrote:i also don't really think that the reasons you are casing dats are very scummy things in this specific game, skitter. like, weak reads, self-doubt, even the existential dread. im feeling most of those things as well so i don't really see it as that scummy. and its not like he's going over the top in playing it up, if he were i could totally see how that's scummy behavior, but i don't feel an overabundance of woe is me.

i think it would be believable that he would imitate those vibes as scum, but it's kind of a risky play unless he really sells it hard and i don't think he is, so the alternative would be to just project more confidence. there's been times when he has (someone said "bluster-y"?) but its always felt pretty thin and transparent, and his honest thoughts shine through pretty easily and quickly. compare to when he pushed on fua in the large, that felt blustery but he went like all in on it and really played it up

so the being kind of in the middle here just reads more as honest to me but trying at times to be good strong town player even when he doesn't fully believe in his own reads

In post 1158, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 1152, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1150, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 875, fireisredsir wrote:my only real townreads are ari and shuichi if that wasn't already clear
Did you explain your shuichi townread?
Link is fine if so
no idea how much ive explained it if at all. but its mostly that he's been thinking good thoughts imo and mostly things i agree with, and when i went through looking for potentially scummy positioning plays and found some from almost everyone, him and ari were the two (and enchant, I think, but that hardly counts) that i didn't find anything for. there were some moments of paranoia (im getting flashbacks to when me+DV were very similar reads in the recent large and then after a while i got paranoid of that but eventually came back around), but then also right when i showed up with a skitter vote he was doing a dive on skitter and found her scummy, and we posted at like the same time

so the multiple instances of being on the same track makes me think town, and nothing makes me think scum. he's also not making any real active attempts to pocket me, mostly keeping his distance, the directional similarity feels pretty natural. again, similar vibes to the situation with DV, who did end up being town
I loosely followed the game fire is talking about and so can see this thought process as organic.
In post 1256, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 1252, VP Baltar wrote:Where did I say that's off the table?
you didn't (and that's not what I said), but i didn't see you explicitly bring it up either, and i think that would have been your natural town response to my if your stated reads are honest
In post 1251, fireisredsir wrote:i think a town vp would be partner reading me with prism here. he has everyone as a townread except me, prism, shuichi, and im apparently pocketing shuichi. i haven't really engaged with prism much or talked about her, and when he poked about it i gave a pretty noncommittal answer. but he let that go, which i found strange

maybe he hasn't commented on that explicitly bc he knows prism would object to that idea
To build on this a little.

Refer back to 640 (quoted above) with me for a moment. Baltar dug up post 133, which to me, looks like a post he could have made if he was thinking about fire & Prism as a team. I lost the thread of what he's been saying more recently for a minute and was prepared to come say "hey, look, a golden thread through VP's trajectory," but that's in fact the opposite of what he's saying now. (I know this part just makes me sound stupid but I'm leaving it in)

Sure, trying to solve the game all at once isn't every player's style (and it isn't mine either) but if you allegedly think you have all the scum in a 3 player big net idk it feels like it would make sense to think about pairing them to me. 1214 seemed to me equivalent to fire shouting "I'm not comfortable talking about prism!" which would definitely get my attention if I suspected both him and prism.

And as fire said, if fire is pocketing me that implies I'm town (even though baltar thinks i'm scum ??) which should leave him only one solve.

--

If I were to make a point against fire, I might say that he has simply not done that much. Outside of some isolated more effortful posts, VP does have a point about just wanting to townread players who are chill-vibing. ANd that's absolutely something I'm susceptible to.
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Post Post #1425 (isolation #92) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:43 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

even though dwlee is the person i'm next most interested in it looks like i should skip to prism & baltar. idk dwlee probably won't take as long so we'll see.
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Post Post #1426 (isolation #93) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:44 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

or i could stop trying to plaster shuichi on everything and admit that deep down i've been wanting to vote baltar since like page 2 lol
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Post Post #1430 (isolation #94) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:52 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1383, Dwlee99 wrote:
In post 1381, Enchant wrote:I am against dwlee99 lim.
Based
UNVOTE: Enchant
dwlee is lowkey openwolfing and maybe they're doing it as a bit but it's odd that no one cares
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Post Post #1513 (isolation #95) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:53 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

Prism if your plan is to die can we get some of this amazing scumhunting I'm told you're capable of first?
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Post Post #1517 (isolation #96) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:54 am

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I may have been quote unquote uncharitable before but skitter's obstinateness here looks town to me.
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Post Post #1518 (isolation #97) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:55 am

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What if I just threw all Prism's actual content out the window since I'm going to struggle to parse it anyway and tried to read her based only on the ATE
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Post Post #1521 (isolation #98) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:57 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

In post 1519, Prism wrote:
In post 1513, Shuichi Saihara wrote:Prism if your plan is to die can we get some of this amazing scumhunting I'm told you're capable of first?
1. I am a scum specialist not a town specialist
2. I am trying, I have reread the game 2-3x, fought Aristeia in the street, fought skitter in the street. If you believe I wasn't trying vote me. Today I have not been as eager to trudge through again but fuck it I might if I feel like it.
Then I hope you're not scum because this would be a bit depressing otherwise
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Post Post #1687 (isolation #99) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:18 pm

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im gonna get rid of the quote stripes. i think it's making my posts boring since im not getting engaged on them much

ok so i cant analyze baltar and be genuine without going here, so im in a neighborhood with datisi and baltar

Image

while im going there. datisi has been a paranoia machine in there and posted an absolute fuckton. this is why im townreading datisi for seemingly no reason.
the two of them have been sorting each other but at this point i think it's just a pocket attempt and i think baltar would have managed to put more town seeming thoughts in there if he had any town thoughts. it just seems like posting just to post to me. and i don't really believe his read prog on datisi because like it's been allegedly town for a million years yet we still keep throwing in some pArAnOiA cUrVeBaLls that i perceive as not real on account of his allegedly being town on datisi for more than half the volume of the hood

i think ive been stopping myself from feeling this read because i wanted the hood to stay hidden.

we all remember baltar's over the top skitter push at the start of the game so i won't bombard you with quotes. the certainty level was goofy and i thought it was goofy at the time. im calling this phenomenon fake bravado

is a different flavor of fake bravado. imo mostly scum do this I LAUGH IN THE FACE OF DANGER HA HA HA thing when there is no actual danger

claims that a joke post from him was actually a reaction test and that's pretty dumb. possible motive in the revisionism is to protect dwlee from one of the first serious attacks of the game in a way by backing up the idea that 27 was a content post that contained thoughts

im now reading his discussion of "awkwardness" again ( for a shortcut) and failing to square that with his fire read in the present. awkwardness is allegedly the main way to catch scum d1 but fire hasn't been awkward

is another big stretch to attack skitter. i think he genuinely wanted to have a skitter elim happen on page 9 and has had to pretend this was town motivated somehow later

is trying so fucking hard to find reasons to scumread skitter that basically don't exist

i first picked on the bravado in and got ignored. then in i am crumbing baltar to look at the neighborhood where i am again trying to get an answer. at this point he admits in the hood that he is indeed faking the read strength

is interesting to me because baltar has already addressed fire's concern about dwlee, so he absolutely already knows that is the reason for fire's vote and this post exists only to throw shade on it and is not a good faith question

/ - i wonder if 307 actually does mean what it says and 309 was a cover up. maybe he knows something about the setup that makes it hard to hide. perhaps he's sweating because he's scum in a neighborhood, which does indeed make it harder to hide

is just digging for more reasons to elim skitter that don't exist. to me how this post sounds is "it's early game, so yeah, my reasons for pushing you [editor's note: really hard] were dogshit! i can't believe you would suspect me for having dogshit reasons!" this doesn't make sense because he's expecting skitter to have non-dogshit reasons while insisting he is allowed to have those

also hey! see how the admission i got in the hood that this bravado was fake still hasn't appeared in the thread? maybe that's because this is a push with an agenda and the thing said in the hood was purely to appease me. ugh fine i guess it finally makes it to the thread in damn

as i already said in , the whole line of reasoning about skitter not mentioning whatever the fuck it was that she mentioned was a shitpush. if he had backed off after she completely obliterated the point i'd say ok cool you just didn't do your research i do that all the time
but instead is what occurs, where baltar moves the goalposts by pulling up skitter's posts that prove his initial point wrong and takes them down with such eloquent arguments as "you said "probably" so this post doesn't count as existing"
and is mostly just funny

has an absurd premise that it's weird for skitter to want him to answer my/fire's questions and harp on it
people like questions to get answered and tend to think there's a reason if they go unanswered this isn't news

"but what about skitter she did it worse!" is an interesting end to a post that begins with an admission of bad faith

characterizing skitter's entire line of play as omgus is nonsense. just reads like an attempt to discourage anyone from listening to her. he's still pushing this in and notably still thinks i can be brought onside here

btw if i ever said these two could be partners, withdrawn. i doubt it.

has been brought up before but im trying to be somewhat comprehensive here. trash reason to attack fire. this has been a theme.

by the same token re: comprehensiveness, still makes little sense from a town mindset. if skitter is scum she has only one partner (if you're mathing her as town on the other hand, ...)

to me is a reversal of style. earlier, baltar indicated that his strategy is to make pushes he's not completely sure about and see what falls out, like he did with skitter. yet this isn't the post of a player with that style. if you don't have a confident scumread, why not try to find one like you were earlier
think this was just playing into the town's general sentiment of feeling lost

How do you make a post like while STILL TO DATE as in literally today april 19, acting paranoid of datisi in the hood?

maybe this isn't a scum point but i'm still mad about for being mean and making me feel bad. kinda discredits my entire existence by implying i'm a worthless player but i know that's mainly the being frustrated by it talking

now the other reason i wanted to talk about the hood at all. just a few hours before posting his recent readlist, baltar asks me in the hood if fire might be pocketing me. and i even fall for this, i think i mentioned it in my fire wall. but allegedly, prism/fire/me is his entire scum pool at this point,

and a relevant aside here, hood comments from him indicate that the readlist in is stronger than it looks and he allegedly feels very confident all the scum are in the bottom 3,

so it seems strange to come from a perspective of assuming i am town. i think the purpose of this was to plant seeds to try to stop this budding alliance of sorts to prevent me from working to keep fire around. tbh if prism isn't scum then is a similar tack

- "hey remember how i basically saved your life? you should townread me for that!"

i know it's not popular now but i actually agree with fire's take that vp should be trying to pair him with prism and it was odd that there wasn't more of a reaction to fire refusing to read prism. i feel like i mentioned this already.

im not gonna vote until i finish with my persons of interest but i doubt i will end up voting somewhere else.
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Post Post #1690 (isolation #100) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:23 pm

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i dont generally believe in the "every neighborhood must contain scum" thing. it's lazy and players should be read based on their content
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Post Post #1693 (isolation #101) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:27 pm

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In post 1691, VP Baltar wrote:This is wild. We agreed to keep the hood quiet D1 and suichi out here making unilateral moves to out it.

I am not going to read this wall in detail RN, but I don't love this development
like you weren't just threatening to out it yourself... you know datisi can see that right
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Post Post #1695 (isolation #102) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:29 pm

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In post 1692, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1687, Shuichi Saihara wrote:he's still pushing this in 612 and notably still thinks i can be brought onside here
I mean, it worked ...
Pedit it could be, sure. But until/unless i have a reason to think otherwise i'm gonnna stick with that

Also ur point about vpb not solving in the hood is interesting, see the recent 19p game where he was town in the hood and was using that to solve p heavily there
(And hey i was scum in that hood!)
did i say he wasnt solving, i didnt think i said that. imo the main thrust has been sorting datisi tho. i could probably reread it to come down on whether there is also solving or not but i mainly just referenced particular events from it that have been living in my brain
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Post Post #1701 (isolation #103) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:40 pm

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ok so there is some solving from him here especially at the start. i guess none of it has jumped out at me as like, wow, that made me feel anything... so that's where i get the idea that the posts are just there to be there
imo as it goes on the solving decreases and focusing on dats increases. & the paranoia posts just pop up sometimes... i think that's performative because ive seen enough to feel pretty good about dats for good

some pointless banter that's not related to the game

some responses to me or dats

ooh i forgot about the time he rolefished dats that was fun
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Post Post #1727 (isolation #104) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:17 pm

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I think it was a good idea at the start so the game could develop organically. Hoods are distracting and that lets scum hide especially if it were all town.

I probably should have figured my actual wcumhunting would get ignored like usual but I thought that one was pretty good :c
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Post Post #1734 (isolation #105) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 5:22 pm

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Thank u

I thrive on ur approval
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Post Post #1775 (isolation #106) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:06 pm

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I didnt want to hold in points that were hugging me while making my case. Simple enough

And valyar had been threatening to out it if I came too hard at him so this would have been the result anyway...
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Post Post #1780 (isolation #107) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:09 pm

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Yes I am chilling here lurking and it took me 7 minutes to write that post
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Post Post #1781 (isolation #108) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:10 pm

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In post 1779, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1774, Aristeia wrote:
In post 1771, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 1769, fireisredsir wrote:if shuichi was widely townread over you and datisi, i could potentially be paranoid of him going for a play where he outs the hood to chain lim you and datisi. but i don't think thats how it goes down, p sure more he's higher in most people's poe than datisi is. so it just seems like a losing play for him as scum
This is a micro game. How many mislims you think scum need to win this?
do you think Prism is Mafia?
My vote is there, yeah?
I can speed this up a little ari is going to point out that you did not answer the question
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Post Post #1783 (isolation #109) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:12 pm

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Dwlee or prism probably but I havent gotten to them yet and I dont like to preflip
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Post Post #1785 (isolation #110) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:15 pm

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I dont have one I just dont see a lot of viable options for partbers
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Post Post #1786 (isolation #111) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:15 pm

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Sick gotcha bro
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Post Post #1788 (isolation #112) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 6:17 pm

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Gonna go do literally anything besides read the next vitriol laden post
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Post Post #1843 (isolation #113) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:07 pm

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One day I'm going to run a setup with 12 town neighbors and watch the greatest minds of mafiascum shred themselves for no reason
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Post Post #1921 (isolation #114) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:14 am

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In post 1845, Aristeia wrote:Maybe it's your avatar - maybe its because you are tryharding and prism tends to make her partner tryhard so far outside their normal townrange it looks distorted.

Yes i am assuming prism is mafia and I shouldn't preflip but I am an idiot.
I'm tryharding bc this is my tryhard account!
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Post Post #1924 (isolation #115) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 5:25 am

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Trying hard is exhausting tho so even though I need to do more isos today to finish by eod... I might just get high instead
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Post Post #1938 (isolation #116) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:41 am

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i know you're joking datisi but i hate you a little for posting that
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Post Post #2188 (isolation #117) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:04 am

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In post 2037, Aristeia wrote:also if Prism flips mafia and I get shot at night just make sure Cephrir doesn't endgame
love you too babe
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Post Post #2190 (isolation #118) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:08 am

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In post 2057, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 2048, Aristeia wrote:Skitter when I say I am fine with being flipped and I'm town and I mean it.

I usually am at e-1 and have lost all patience with the town.

And I will give them a time to say things and then self-hammer.

and I will follow through with Self Hammer.

Saying you are ok with being flipped when there are no votes on you is just performative defensive AtE.
this is one of the first points against prism that has resonated with me, fwiw. at least wrt and

i do think the mech makes things different and could account for the faster throw-hands-up response, but still, it's something
maybe i will just use this as shorthand for my prism read. she is playing a poor and emotional game regardless of alignment but the idea of trying to play ATE matching games seems like a reasonable way to have something without having everything.

i am obviously not going to finish the stuff i wanted to today and i don't really care that much.
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Post Post #2191 (isolation #119) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:08 am

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In post 2189, Aristeia wrote:are you going to vote or just do wolfy popins ?
wolfy popins
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Post Post #2193 (isolation #120) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:10 am

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Image

wolfy poppins
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Post Post #2195 (isolation #121) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:11 am

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In post 2061, Aristeia wrote:btw you should read ceph's iso

it's full of prism shade but dude never votes for prism and actually wrote a giant VPB case out it's lit
is it full of prism shade i feel like i have mostly ignored her bc she is too smart for me to understand
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Post Post #2200 (isolation #122) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:15 am

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if literally everyone wants to line up lims on me you might as well not make me sit through the intervening days!
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Post Post #2203 (isolation #123) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:18 am

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In post 2132, Aristeia wrote:
In post 2131, fireisredsir wrote:would be funny if it is prism/shuichi and the two points from that i said "my heart's not in this one" were the two that were right
you can always vote for prism

you don't actually get credit for a right reads if you don't vote them out.
careful, the mod might hear you!
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Post Post #2204 (isolation #124) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:22 am

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In post 2172, Prism wrote:Dwlee's posting on the last two/three pages has been good imo. Thanks for putting in the effort.

Skitter they have the votes to flip me if needed+as corny as it is (scum they won't do it!!!!) I can self at deadline to avoid a no elim.
sick reflective stepback
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Post Post #2205 (isolation #125) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:24 am

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VOTE: baltar since dwlee has caught on to my evil plan to never vote anyone!
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Post Post #2215 (isolation #126) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:56 am

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i think you are interpreting my comments about not understanding prism's posts as shade somehow but what i mean is i literally don't understand the order she puts words in
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Post Post #2218 (isolation #127) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:48 am

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i see some merit in her arguments that she would play better if she were scum, some of the uninteresting meta stuff seems at least believable and the emotion is obviously real

but i know very well that scum can have real emotions and i haven't liked how much time she spends on defending herself and drinking glue instead of scumhunting

probably my third pick after baltar and dwlee
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Post Post #2219 (isolation #128) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:49 am

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oh also i guess her reads have seemed to move around a lot and i haven't understood why but that could be my fault i guess
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Post Post #2224 (isolation #129) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:58 am

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In post 2221, Dwlee99 wrote:VP/Prism and Prism/Me doesn't make any sense so I'm surprised you'd say Prism is your third pick when your first is Baltar
im not preflipping but i'll let you know if i agree about those pairs not making sense when i have a flip
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Post Post #2225 (isolation #130) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:59 am

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In post 2223, Aristeia wrote:her emotional appeals are +++ scum indicative

it literally makes no sense for town to be expressing massive fustration if she was fine with being flipped back at post 699.
yeah that's true. do you put it past her to be deliberately manipulative as town?
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Post Post #2230 (isolation #131) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:17 am

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im asking you a question about a player you know better than i do
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Post Post #2231 (isolation #132) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:17 am

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In post 2226, Aristeia wrote:i have issues with you being fooled by ate when you usually ignore that shit or scumread it
i do? *takes notes*
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Post Post #2232 (isolation #133) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:18 am

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i understand that you're not having fun with this game but you don't need to take it out on me
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Post Post #2254 (isolation #134) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:54 am

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In post 2234, Aristeia wrote:if you want to fake a townie mindset - you need to actually do what town you would do - which is convince people baltar is scum and needs to eat rope

instead your primary goal is to defend Prism in weird convoluted ways.

Because you don't actually care about eliminating baltar - that's not your primary goal, your primary goal is to keep Prism alive into night so you can shoot me and then go cruise mode the rest of the game.
I already cased him and everyone patted me on the head and said that's nice cephrir and ignored it

When have you ever seen me kick and scream to get my favorite lim through. I've already done way more than I ever do
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Post Post #2257 (isolation #135) » Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:01 am

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Next time someone asks me about prism I will just do a handstand and scream something incoherent about baltar
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Post Post #2310 (isolation #136) » Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:56 pm

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oh. well, okay

VOTE: enchant
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Post Post #2312 (isolation #137) » Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:04 pm

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:/

UNVOTE:
VOTE: baltar
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Post Post #2321 (isolation #138) » Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:16 pm

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Were you in a hood at the start of the game?
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Post Post #2324 (isolation #139) » Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:18 pm

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That's bizarre... idgi.
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Post Post #2325 (isolation #140) » Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:19 pm

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In post 2323, Enchant wrote:Probably it exist to screw PT Cop over, but give "Vanilla Depended" modifiers more freedom.
Are you sure you were told it was caused by someone else's ability? Because this makes sense to me in a way that this didn't before, if that element were removed.
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Post Post #2329 (isolation #141) » Sat Apr 23, 2022 1:33 pm

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In post 2326, Enchant wrote:Mod said Hood is "Not part of my role".
That's what I thought you might be saying. I have this as well.
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Post Post #2334 (isolation #142) » Sat Apr 23, 2022 2:26 pm

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i had a theory it was because there's a vanilla cop but it could just be prism's role i guess
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Post Post #2399 (isolation #143) » Sun Apr 24, 2022 6:34 pm

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In post 2397, Datisi wrote:do you say that because you scumread the people in the hood or because of setup specc

fine if it's the former but i will be greatly annoyed if it's the latter
it is nice to see one person with a passable opinion on this
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Post Post #2437 (isolation #144) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:18 pm

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In post 2401, VP Baltar wrote:I'm leaning toward a Suichi lim today. He seems like his engagement in the hood has gone down since prism lim started looking more likely, and I think it is not really a town mindset to come in today and think I'm scum after 1v1ing Prism yesterday.

Fire, of course, also sent a test balloon on that idea, but he has probably tried to do a bit more solving yesterday than suichi.
as was pointed out at the time it wasn't like you tried to 1v1 prism that was something that happened to you. don't try to take credit for it

im less engaged since prism flipped because everyone already preflipped me as scum with her. i expect to be elimed today, as i said in hood, and im ok with that

im also just busy rn
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Post Post #2438 (isolation #145) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:18 pm

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In post 2406, fireisredsir wrote:
In post 2402, fireisredsir wrote:yea true ari said the only two viable partners for prism were VP and shuichi after seeing you 1v1 prism, she must not have had a town mindset
wait you even got me to say it was a 1v1 smh

reminder that it was not at all a 1v1. ari talked about this in better words than I did here: and , explaining how you trying to frame it as a 1v1 has a clear motivation in a world where you are partners with prism
yeah this, thanks
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Post Post #2440 (isolation #146) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:19 pm

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also hey

why do i need to solve

my solve is baltar

there's no reason i should have to do anything else besides try to pair him with prism more carefully, which would require me to read prism's posts, which i don't want to do
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Post Post #2441 (isolation #147) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:20 pm

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you weren't already voting me? lol
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Post Post #2442 (isolation #148) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:20 pm

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In post 2408, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2299, Aristeia wrote:anyway if Prism actually does flip mafia here and I get shot please force through Cephrir for me tommorrow.
yes this is why i'm expecting to die thank you captain obvious
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Post Post #2443 (isolation #149) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 1:21 pm

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In post 2413, VP Baltar wrote:If you're scum, stay mad buddy. Maybe we flip you today instead.
ah yes scum are usually mad about getting mislims
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Post Post #2446 (isolation #150) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:07 pm

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In post 2444, VP Baltar wrote:We haven't had any mislims this game.
did you already forget the context of your own post or
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Post Post #2448 (isolation #151) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:09 pm

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In post 2445, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2441, Shuichi Saihara wrote:you weren't already voting me? lol
Do you think waiting for you to play the game and try to actually do some solving before just voting you in a micro is scum indicative?
ur scum so anything u do is scum indicative :]
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Post Post #2449 (isolation #152) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:11 pm

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i dont rly intend to produce any content so long as my imminent demise remains on the table

even if it didn't really

so feel free to get this over with
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Post Post #2451 (isolation #153) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:15 pm

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it seems pretty clear!!
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Post Post #2453 (isolation #154) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:18 pm

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i mean i was thinking lim me but that's fine too
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Post Post #2458 (isolation #155) » Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:00 pm

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imagine being so confident about your fire scumread that you're already flipping shuichi as scum

makes a lot of sense if u aren't someone who expects to need several mislims hmm
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Post Post #2518 (isolation #156) » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:28 am

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In post 2492, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2479, Datisi wrote:why are we killing ceph what did ceph do
Ceph spent much of yesterday calling both me and prism bad, but only actually advocating to kill one of us despite a very viable prism lim all day long.
i wish you would stop just straight up making up lies about me. decent scum should be able to twist the words i actually said better rather than inventing new ones
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Post Post #2519 (isolation #157) » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:33 am

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for those on the go: i did not spend much of yesterday calling prism bad
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Post Post #2524 (isolation #158) » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:38 pm

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In post 2522, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2519, Shuichi Saihara wrote:for those on the go: i did not spend much of yesterday calling prism bad
I am going from memory, so you could be right....but doesn't that make you look worse?

As I stated in the hood, I would love to have some actual interactions with you, but you seem to have your heels dug in/are quitting, and that isn't easy to work with.

I know for a fact you are wrong I'm scum, so who else are you looking at.
it very well might make me look worse but i still do not take kindly to being accused of things i literally didn't do
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Post Post #2525 (isolation #159) » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:39 pm

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who else i'm looking at is no one, especially not fire since that is what you want me to say
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Post Post #2526 (isolation #160) » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:40 pm

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In post 2522, VP Baltar wrote:As I stated in the hood, I would love to have some actual interactions with you, but you seem to have your heels dug in/are quitting, and that isn't easy to work with.
i haven't posted since you made this request and although you are right that i'm going to ignore it, at least let me do that before you go pre-flipping my response
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Post Post #2527 (isolation #161) » Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:45 pm

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every post this dude makes is full of implicit threats to do what he wants or else it's wild

there's not even an or else you can implement when you're already voting me, if i even cared about scum voting me
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Post Post #2531 (isolation #162) » Tue Apr 26, 2022 5:48 pm

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here's a fact

i don't care
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Post Post #2565 (isolation #163) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:44 pm

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In post 2553, VP Baltar wrote:That seems like bad play and possibly indicates that one of fire/suichi really did over commit to a Prism defense.
didn't defend her either... idk how you can be so confident im scum without reading any of my posts. kinda feels like you're just happy to push on what everyone else wants to give u
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Post Post #2566 (isolation #164) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:45 pm

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In post 2557, Dwlee99 wrote:I just want cephrir dead pls
im glad we are on the same page
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Post Post #2572 (isolation #165) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:44 pm

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In post 2569, skitter30 wrote:ceph, uh, why do you want to get flipped again?
just kinda not having fun i guess. i want to get out of games and take a break from mafia
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Post Post #2573 (isolation #166) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:45 pm

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In post 2570, VP Baltar wrote:
In post 2565, Shuichi Saihara wrote:
In post 2553, VP Baltar wrote:That seems like bad play and possibly indicates that one of fire/suichi really did over commit to a Prism defense.
didn't defend her either... idk how you can be so confident im scum without reading any of my posts. kinda feels like you're just happy to push on what everyone else wants to give u
I'm still reading the game. I've tried to engage with you several times. Which of your posts would you like me to look at?
just don't enjoy having my actions misstated

you can attack what i actually did all u want & unless i gain a surge of motivation you'll probably succeed
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Post Post #2574 (isolation #167) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:48 pm

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vp is spending hood time preemptively explaining why he will be keeping datisi in the lim pool indefinitely btw
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Post Post #2575 (isolation #168) » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:50 pm

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i will haunt anyone who ever votes for datisi
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Post Post #2585 (isolation #169) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:32 am

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Has anyone ever told you you're kind of a jerk
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Post Post #2586 (isolation #170) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:37 am

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Honestly surprised yall are getting this wrong but w/e

VOTE: Shuichi

Get me out of here
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Post Post #2587 (isolation #171) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:42 am

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@enchant hurry up
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Post Post #2597 (isolation #172) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:34 am

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i would not characterize it as "so much" i am just a relatively high amount of done
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Post Post #2598 (isolation #173) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:35 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

or if you prefer it's because i'm a mafia 7x vengeful and i want everyone to lose
"Some lies can lead the world to hope... Some truths can lead the world to despair... So I don't think anyone can really say which is more right in the end."
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Shuichi Saihara
Shuichi Saihara
Mafia Scum
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Shuichi Saihara
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Post Post #2600 (isolation #174) » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:39 am

Post by Shuichi Saihara »

muahaha
"Some lies can lead the world to hope... Some truths can lead the world to despair... So I don't think anyone can really say which is more right in the end."
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