Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[Datisi]

VOTE: aristeia <3

i am about to sleep, pls don't poop out 50 pages while i'm gone, k thx gn

[Datisi]

Shockingly that is actually +town for Enchant because he's not reading the fake PM as scum lmao

i don't get this read bc the sample role pm is unspoiled in the ruleset, i don't know if prism really thinks that scum!enchant isn't gonna like, accidentally glance over it and see that the colour of the role is different than usual

[Datisi]

VOTE: Datisi
If I vote you you'll solve the game for me right

i have no clue what have you the idea that town!me has the ability to solve games

[Datisi]

Remember frogs

i was thinking of that multiball micro game but fair enough

very annoyed it seems like prism has ignored my super serious page one scumread but okay i fucking guess

I didnt dats like one post.

assuming the words "dats" and "like" are supposed to be switched around, (1) why do you choose this to say now? (2) why?

i kiiiinda like the fact dwlee voted fire and i can kiiiiinda see fire being scum so sure?

Maybe scumpings on dwlee

And that would be a glorious scumteam

bad and wrong

Because ... ?

what???????????

what is this question even supposed to ask? like, "why is my read bad?" but like, what did you expect the answer was gonna be to that question, considering all information that you've given about your read was "maybe scumpings" like? like????

i have urgent matters to attend to, i shall be back later

[Datisi]

assuming the words "dats" and "like" are supposed to be switched around, (1) why do you choose this to say now? (2) why?

Usually in the beginning of games i try to say whatever comes to mind, however slight - doing so tends to generate content, which is nice early on

(You know this ...)

For your second question - i was questioning why my scumpings were 'bad and wrong', i'm not sure what you're objecting to

the "why do you say this now" means "why do you choose to say you dislike my post not right when voting me, but after you have made like 20 filler post in between"

and you still haven't answered what about my post you didn't like (and which one, i made multiple)

re second question: were you expecting anything other than "i'm town"??? like, you said you had "scumpings", you did not explain them at all, the person you're scumpinging told you you're wrong, and *you* are the one asking *them* why you are wrong... like that's not how that's supposed to work i think? you don't get to give zero explanation then ask someone why your thoughts are wrong.

again, what were you expecting from them there?

[Datisi]

I can send messages to people starting on Night 2

It's literally a useless role except to catch Mafia Ascetic.

it can also catch a... *gasp* town ascetic so i'm not sure why you're suddenly so into the idea that there must be a scum ascetic

the only person I would head hunt in this PL is Dats

maybe it's for the better i don't know what this word means in this context

Also i think vpb is somewhat scummy as well

y

[Datisi]

i have read the first 10 pages and my brain has started melting afterwards, so i will either return to this later or just pretend i read them

i wanna VOTE: skitter30

and if skitter30 flips red, we are nuking vp baltar literally zero fucking questions asked, their fight *really* felt like crap theatre

[Datisi]

that's fair

and oof, that sucks i'm sorry

i'm not gonna be around too much today anyway since i'll later be meeting up with a friend i haven't seen since last summer

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

still on skitter in spirit but i don't appreciate unannounced y-1's this soon with enchant in the game

[Datisi]

so i decided to open one of the pages i didn't read earlier and i see THIS and i'm like

Oh dear, i'm doing this all wrong apparently >.<

Anyways can we talk about how scummy vpb is being and how stilted he sounds ^

okay i think i get what my subconsciousness was trying to tell me

skitt's fight with baltar *really* reminds me of the fight she and i had very early on in the recently finished large normal where she wanted to pick a fight with me early but it's wasn't going exactly right so she kept being like "but guys look how scummy is datisi being look!!!" and like

this is very very much reminding me of that

[Datisi]

I *know* you've seen me do this in many prior games, so i'm not sure why you're objecting here now

i'm objecting to the weird timing (but okay, saying that you voted first and then read the game explains *that* part)

is there any reason why you are still avoiding saying why you thought that post was bad?

i said dwlee's posts pinged. They called that a bad and wrong read. Are you saying i'm not meant to ask why they think it was a bad read?

yes. your read on them offered literally no substance. then you asked them what was wrong with it. do you not see the issue here??? like, if you had said "dwlee, i scumread you because of xyz, why do you think that is bad?" then sure, whatever. but you just said "i scumread you", and then you're asking "why shouldn't i" without saying why you scumread them makes it seem like a completely empty question, because again, what are you expecting there? what are they supposed to answer to?

[Datisi]

How are you reading him?

besides +partner with you, i am not

[Datisi]

i'm not saying the read is wrong...

i'm saying from town!dwlee's pov, they have nothing to respond to wrt to "why your push on them is bad" (because there is absolutely nothing there), therefore scum!dwlee doesn't have to react any way differently, therefore town!skitter doesn't gain anything from asking that question, therefore why does town!skitter ask it in the first place??

[Datisi]

And fwiw i am formally scumreading now too ...

i am assuming there is a "you" missing from this post here, which like, lol ok

[Datisi]

if you don't articulate a reason for your read and then ask them why it's bad, they have nothing else to say other than "because i'm town" because you didn't offer anything else and it's kinda clear that's the reason the read was bad *anyway*

[Datisi]

skitter, why am i scum?

[Datisi]

I feel like Skitter is probably logically correct in some way but is still scum but idk if that's ridiculous of me or not

It is ridiculous of you, yes

does this imply that skitter is claiming she cannot be logically correct as scum? wild

[Datisi]

oh yeah, i had another thought earlier

skitt, why did you say "well i was achkchually pushing vp" as if i haven't seen you bus your scumbuddy into the ground in a micro game before

[Datisi]

Why is this what you're popping in to comment on

i felt like it

[Datisi]

no

[Datisi]

idk why you're pestering me about it as if i have a claimed bop on him as i do on ico or bugspray

[Datisi]

i saw you responded and i was gonna say how you just acknowledging i asked the question is not the same as asking a question but i just got done with dinner and am about to go walk so that will have to WAIT

[Datisi]

it has been... less than a day since the game started

WILLFULLY IGNORING

do you GENUINELY think that town!me always jumps at solving the whole game immediately and any time i put it off, i'm scum

this ain't 2020 anyome SKITTER

[Datisi]

it can also catch a... *gasp* town ascetic so i'm not sure why you're suddenly so into the idea that there must be a scum ascetic

This kind of makes no sense. Town ascetic claims immediately if they know what they are doing.

yeah

and the mailman can.... confirm them. WOW.

[Datisi]

The page 1 "I don't get this" when they just thought another possibility was questionable.

i didn't catch 21 as a response to me (and even now when you point that out i don't understand what it's trying to say)

i don't have anything else to say other than your read is wrong and any time i spend explaining why it is wrong would be better spent doing other things in this game and getting you to a correct read that way so i'm gonna do that i guess

[Datisi]

Ok, so your argument is optimal town play in this setup is ascetic claims, mailman doesn't claim and tests N1, confirms nature of ascetic and town assumes scum wouldn't claim ascetic, ergo, claimed is townie?

I suppose I can see that. What do you think about prism automatically going to 2 ascetics?

no

my argument is that "if we have a town mailman and a town ascetic, then town mailman's job is to send a message to the ascetic and once it fails, it confirms that the ascetic is indeed (probably) an ascetic"

idk where you're getting the idea of "also scum wouldn't claim ascetic" from my post there

i have absolutely no thoughts on that because i hate mechanical setup specc like that and i can read absolutely nothing of prism's alignment from that

[Datisi]

okay i am KIND OF caught up but not really because my eyes are glazing over the skitter/vpb fight and i hate it

it's mostly the fact that i cannot remember the last time i saw vpb be this aggressive this early. i don't know. something feels off. should i be checking older games? i should but like that's one thing that's pinging me weird

the other issue i have is that skitter... seems to be really REALLY into making anything i say be scummy? like, i didn't immediately shit out a read on vp. on a day i said i will be busy. so what. that's "ignoring a central point of the game". are you fucking kidding me. knowing that (1) her datisi-partner reads are incorrect like that (as seen in pick your poison) and (2) knowing that towntisi just doesn't always have reads on everything (as explained in pick your power).

[Datisi]

idk
someone pls interact with me directly my brain cannot understand this game as is

[Datisi]

idk
someone pls interact with me directly my brain cannot understand this game as is

hi

what do you think of dwlee

slightly townie for townreading me while beign aware of my Mad Mafia Skills

idk
someone pls interact with me directly my brain cannot understand this game as is

did you roll town Dats?

yes

[Datisi]

Just such an arbitrary push to me

it wasn't arbitrary to me. town!skitter pokes at anything that is of interest to her in the early game. scum!skitter hates her life. so one way of finding out which one i am dealing with is trying to see whether her pokes actually make sense and have solving intention behind them or whether they're there because they have to be there. and if i see her "poking" at something that really looks like a nonsense dead end, i'm gonna call it out because that would fit the image of scum!skitter more than town!skitter.

i feel like i have pushed at more miniscule things in my mafia career, but i don't know off the top of my head whether you've SEEN me do that, so i'll chill for now but

[Datisi]

this game feels like mud currently in that i want to cool off from my skitter read but i'm not picking up strong scumreads elsewhere but also nobody is actually a strong townread either and fuck this game

i will attempt to get a better foothold in this game and figure out at least vaguely what is happening throughout this irl day

[Datisi]

i said "fuck this game" which i say every game at this point

and it's because reads aren't coming naturally to me which means i need to start expelling effort to get them and i don't feel like doing that rn so i will wait a bit and hope thta something happens that enlightens me

[Datisi]

Datisi, did I imagine that somewhere you said skitter bussed in a micro before? If I am not delirious, can you share that link?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82512

it's a bit of an oldie but skitt bussed her partner d1 and then won the game (granted, outed both pr's in the process but)

and @skitt, i'm glad the game isn't bad for your reads (arguably it is since you're scumreading me but whatever) but *i* am not getting reads therefore *i* am saying fuck this game

[Datisi]

The thing that is weird is not seeing the somewhat obvious play Enchant was making.

i think you're seeing things that actually aren't there because you assume enchant's play follows any kind of logic

why is that skitt post weird again?

[Datisi]

test if this person is ascetic tonight

novice can't act on n1

[Datisi]

I am inclined to think Datisi is town right now

what made you think this

[Datisi]

Okay fire's point on me feels not made up as in they actually believe it even though I find the premise (that I should have a specific post in mind for "VP doing stuff" before asserting that he would do stuff) wrong.

also is there anything specific that gave you the feels that he's Genuinely scumreading you?

[Datisi]

oh no, i'm sorry

[Datisi]

scum!me is capable of typing letters and hitting submit so that's not exactly helpful

and i don't get the vibe so like

dwlee pls

[Datisi]

If you're that curious as to what the scumpings from Dwlee were, you could have taken a page from your own book and asked.

that was never what i cared about there?

[Datisi]

VOTE: prism

i went for a walk in the moonlight and this is what i feel

i feel like whenever i talk to prism i'm arguing with a lawyer who is dead fucking set on not only telling me i'm scum, but also make it so everyone else thinks that, without actually ~processing~ whatever the fuck is there to process

[Datisi]

i don't care whether i'm your top scumread you want to murder immediately or if you're voting me because lol haha nobody else to vote for (which i acknowledge isn't even true at this very moment but that isn't a point in your favour right now)

your treatment of my slot is giving me bad vibes and this lowkey feels like chaining skitter > datisi and i don't like it

[Datisi]

i didn't get the impression anyone other than ari is actually scumreading you and you are a more than competent scum player so i don't see the issue there but alright

[Datisi]

your treatment of my slot is giving me bad vibes and this lowkey feels like chaining skitter > datisi and i don't like it

Uh how are you reading me again?

/shrug

i don't love your vote on me but (1) i know your readrate on me isn't Great (2) you did give me vague feels like that mini normal where you got hammered like 24 hours into day 2 so like, i'm gonna chill on you until something catches my eye

[Datisi]

Datisi, I'd like you to elaborate more on what questions/protrayals of mine are in bad faith and seem to be presuming a scum alignment for you.

I've always known you don't like pushes on you. My concern is that seeing strong stances when there were none, and a vague veneer of malice where there is none, is perhaps reflective of fear more than run of the mill defensiveness.

there's the weird mixture in your posts about me that's both "this is a scummy thing to do" and "it's not a big deal"

while i know it's possible to hold both of those opinions at the same time, the way you are presenting them feels like you're trying to play up both of those parts, playing up the first one to get the idea of scum!datisi in other people's heads while also playing up the second one to make sure people don't consiously think that that idea came from you

i don't know how else to interpret sequences like calling my push arbitrary (and therefore scummy) in 548, to turning my argument into something else in 650, to then making sure to point out it's not THAT big of a deal in 690. and what i mean by "turning it into something else" is that you are saying something around me criticizing skitter for "not doing the ideal play" when plainly now that's not what that was about. and that was in turn of me pointing out that "why didn't you ask why skitter was scumreading dwlee" is not a question to ask because that's never what i cared about.

like, it feels like you're on a mission to present my arguments as bad and present it like town!datisi would have absolutely done something else there. and if i say "hey, that's not what my push was about" (649) you turn it into "well, yes, that wasn't actually your push, but you were doing this other thing" (650) that also paints me in a bad light and is also untrue.

it doesn't feel like you're actually listening to what i'm saying or evaluating my words. it feels like you're jumping from one bad faith interpretation to another bad faith interpretation, then shielding yourself with a "it's actually not a big deal tho!!!!" when i call you out on it

[Datisi]

won't be around too much today because painting eggs, but i'll be here and there

[Datisi]

don't have the energy for mafia right now, will be here tomorrow

[Datisi]

i thought taking a break from this game would help me get some cool reads but like, it did not

i somehow think dwlee is townie because i kiiinda don't see them pushing for an enchant yeet as scum on day one because i don't think scum!them decides to get their hands dirty with pushing the most lhf player on the playerlist, and also their kinda confusion about enchant/prism feels more townie than not bc i think scum!them would've paid more attention and would have tried to keep their trajectory clearer

and also i maybe wouldn't mind voting enchant but i wanna see some other things first

[Datisi]

Can tl;dr that I will have questions for Datisi later but was satisfied with his last response.

i have certain thoughts brewnig but i would like to see an elaboration to this ^^

[Datisi]

for what it's worth, the biggest point of interest for me was that you said you would have questions for me. i can understand what you're saying was your issue with my play so far.

[Datisi]

dwlee, i'm thinking you're town for probably dogshit awful reasons, give me something that i can sheep on enchant that's a bit more nuanced than "lol he scum"

[Datisi]

ok but like does town!enchant have reads

i imagine you'll answer yes so like substantiate that pls

[Datisi]

skitter:

Lean scum on fireisred and am willing to vote there.


Lean scum on fireisred and am willing to vote there.

No offense but ur reads are p bad this game

also skitter:

I would be very interested in a dwlee or dats wagon

there is something really interesting(?) about skitter saying i'm having nonstop existential dread or whatever when it's like, pretty known that pester people about their reads on me when i don't get them or when i feel like they shouldn't have those reads if they were town

i am trying my best not to go back into loltunneling skitter because i know she can't really read me very well but uhh

[Datisi]

i don't really care about the mechanical arguments for prism being scum, because i am one of those mods that consistently puts nonsense into my setups to fuck with setup specc so i am naturally not willing to policy someone for an ascetic claim on d1 just because we apparently also have a mailman

ari, is there anything to elaborate on on the dayplay aspect of things for prism-scum?

[Datisi]

well maybe i didn't find those paragraphs that convincing DWLEE

ik it's stupid saying that while voting prism but like lole

[Datisi]

there is something really interesting(?) about skitter saying i'm having nonstop existential dread or whatever when it's like, pretty known that pester people about their reads on me when i don't get them or when i feel like they shouldn't have those reads if they were town

Uh can you say this again in different words? Not sure i understand

i have no clue why you're saying i'm having existential dread when i was interrogating prism about her read on me

because (1) do you disagree that i was wrong about her push on me being weird and lawyery? she agreed with that (2) I ALWAYS INTERROGATE PEOPLE WHEN I FEEL THEIR READ ON ME IS SHIT

like you scumread me for this in one scumgame and then you scumread me for it in a towngame and it's like FAM that's just how i solve so what's the issue

what's the existential dread here

[Datisi]

:>

i'm ok, i'm not actually upset about this game

i am just waiting for better reads to come to me and i am somehow circling back to thinking about voting skitt bc lol idk

[Datisi]

Its that your overall vibe is: i hate this gaaaaaaaame

when in our 2+ years of playing mafia together did you get the idea that i actually like this game

also, that is the vibe that i feel when i am struggling for reads. pretty sure that is the vibe i was having throughout the entirety of pyp. how is this something that you can genuinely call me scum over?

[Datisi]

i really wish we didn't have those few games where you were scumreading me for absolute nonsense reasons skitt, because if it weren't for them i could just call you scum here and be done with it

but you are forcing me to THINK

[Datisi]

ari, what is vp's alignment?

[Datisi]

i actually townread 985 and i don't know how to feel about it

[Datisi]

Dats does any of that affect how ur reading me?

not by much

you did vaguely remind me of that game you got shitpushed and voted out so i guess a sorta kinda townie but uhhh dwlee is like one of my townreads sort of and i'm not sure i like your vote on them

[Datisi]

i can buy that i am feeling off this game

that does not change the fact that i think you often scumread me for nonsense that is firmly part of my towngame

i don't think scum attacks enchant when nobody is scumreading them or enchnat and it's obviously gonna be looked down upon bc hurr durr lhf

[Datisi]

I think enchant is a significantly easier push than a lot of other people in this pl, no?

yeah

so naturally scum would stay away from it

[Datisi]

yes

and i ended up being right that it was townie so what is the issue here

pedit: @ari

skitt, i don't think scum, in this playerlist, can afford to be lazy
if i'm being stupid and wifomed over then i guess but

[Datisi]

i thought you were my scumbuddy going to die and i tried to find something you did that game that i could convincingly sell as townie (make note that i myself did not *think* it was townie then, i don't have that kind of cognition when i'm informed at all)

and this game i saw dwlee doing that thing and i thought it was townie

like it's a funny coincidence that this happen, but yes but actually no - i didn't think it was townie behaviour from scum!you, i thought it was behaviour that i could use to present you as town

does that make sense?

[Datisi]

another reason is that vp was calling for more skitter votes and for a skitter wagon for like the whole early game. and then when he gets what he wants and skitter's response to pressure is, as he says, "not great", suddenly he backs off with the reasoning that there were too many people supporting the elim

like i don't think its valid at all to think that someone can't be scum in a 9p when they are a mostly consensus scumread

Good point.

i read this and suddenly i remember that there was a time where i thought the scumteam was skitter/vp and i'm like bro... bro what if...

[Datisi]

VOTE: skitter

what am i doing

[Datisi]

VOTE: skitter

what am i doing

P confident this is scum-dats ^^^^

you have not done a single townie thing this game skitter

except sounding like you did in that one mini which i think you can fake

and you also did something else that was townie but the jury is still out whether i should change my mind about it

what do you find so implausible about me scumreading you?

[Datisi]

fire made that post about you/vpb being weird and i remembered scumreading you early in the game and i had a vision

and i still think your scumreads of me/dwlee are bad so /shrug

like i was maybe gonna let it be since ari also said that i feel off to her but like

[Datisi]

ok maybe i'm falling for one of the oldest tricks in the book but

when skitt made a "when i'm gone look at dats" i was like "she's basically softing vt i don't think scum!her does that there"

and then she outright claimed vt when on like, two (2) votes and i'm like

fuck

[Datisi]

VOTE: enchant???

[Datisi]

yes it does

i can acknowledge you may have reasons for scumreading me and still not like the way you went around it

[Datisi]

His read basically boils down to 'i'm scumreading him for nonsense' *while acknowledging* that he thinks town-me has often done that before

yes because it's assumed town!you would actually learn from your mistakes

his dwlee read is that he doesnt think scum-dwlee pushes enchant today which is just ???? why is that even remotely town indicative ... ???

pushing enchant today is generally considered scummy because he is lhf
dwlee knows this
so dwlee is doing something that they know is considered scummy because..?

[Datisi]

i mean this is stupid because i don't even WANT to push skitter anymore but i will still have to defend myself against the tiger because she's gonna say my turnaround was because i got scared of her or something and like

pain

[Datisi]

new solve is enchant/vp don't @ me

[Datisi]

i have no clue why you're saying i'm having existential dread when i was interrogating prism about her read on me

because (1) do you disagree that i was wrong about her push on me being weird and lawyery? she agreed with that (2) I ALWAYS INTERROGATE PEOPLE WHEN I FEEL THEIR READ ON ME IS SHIT

like you scumread me for this in one scumgame and then you scumread me for it in a towngame and it's like FAM that's just how i solve so what's the issue

what's the existential dread here

Ur issue earlier was me saying that you had any existential dread to begin with

It later changed to 'fine i may have existential dread but i dont like you saying it'

And i'm saying you:
- didnt explain why its scummy for me to think that
- should have reevaluated between point 1 and point 2 upon receiving the information that you are in fact giving off that vibe (i.e. and consider hiw that might affect my read on you) but instead you just jumped to 'well you're scummy for thinking that anyways', which is partly why i think you're manufacturing this read, because *in context* it makes sense for me to think this about your play, but you're skipping over the checkpoint of 'does this make sense' to continue to find reasons to scumread me

i didn't change that, i said that i was interrogating prism on her read of me. the fact that i was doing that does not mean i was having existential dread, it means i was solving prism.

- i don't know which instance exactly you're referring to here; give me a post number and i'll tell you what i was thinking there
- it's funny bc i have been feeling i might have been playing this game differently than usual, but i didn't feel like i was playing it differently in a way that you were accusing me of. there is multiple ways to feel "off" in a game and just because ari said that i feel off *to her* doesn't mean i suddenly excuse you from thinking i sound off, because the two of you read me in a completely different way.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

i have things i want to say and making sure no hammer happens beforethat

[Datisi]

yea i meant the joke IC claim which datisi voted over. this one, idk

i didn't vote him over the claim, i voted him over his play

[Datisi]

?
Why is ari's reading of 'offness' more valid than mine ... ?

i think i know in which way i am sounding "off". if mena were here, he'd tell you the same thing.

the way ari called me "off" indicates to me she noticed the same thing. the things you were calling me "off" about were not hitting the same reasons.

[Datisi]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=84719

i found this game earlier, it featured a bunyip

[Datisi]

i am fine this is fine, deep breaths everything is fine

VOTE: vp baltar

EVERYTHING IS FINE

[Datisi]

i sense he will be around soon

[Datisi]

i think dwlee is town
i think ari is town
i kinda think skitt is town now
enchant is prob town for claim
fire and shuichi gave me enough good feels at various points of the game
prism is ??? what the fuck i don't even know

vp can you please town it up so that i truly lose my mind here

[Datisi]

i once almost got hit by a car when crossing the street because i was playing mafia, fun times

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

i will unvote because i currently don't feel well about anything this game and i don't feel well irl because i have a huge fuckin project that i KEEP PROCRASTINATING ON i need to at least TRY to work on it i will be back later

[Datisi]

and also i don't want quickhammer while i'm gone

kthxbye

[Datisi]

they definitely do

i'd just be hoping for there to be some kinda uncertainty or hesitation if it's a mistake that has been done a few times already

[Datisi]

semi-vla until thursday evening

i know we're running short on time and there are still some Things i want to look at, i will do my best to get that done in a reasonably timed manner

[Datisi]

Ok i want to vote vpb dwlee or ceph

where did i go

[Datisi]

what in the ever loving fuck did i walk into

[Datisi]

i have just finished writing a 6-page-long analysis of a paper i did not read, it is 1am, i am overloaded with caffeine, and my head is pounding

i may try to read this game before going onto the next soul sucking task because i am afraid y'all are gonna flip someone before i gave my blessing

but my god i am not making any promises

[Datisi]

I CAN'T

i have a test in like...??? 36 hours???? no, 35!! and i haven't done shit about it

and also i need to argue with people on the internet!!

[Datisi]

it's too late i already had a cup of coffee at 9:30pm i won't be asleep until 3 at the minimum

also will try to read now ok bye

[Datisi]

i don't really care about the mechanical arguments for prism being scum, because i am one of those mods that consistently puts nonsense into my setups to fuck with setup specc so i am naturally not willing to policy someone for an ascetic claim on d1 just because we apparently also have a mailman

I actually think Ari's point is kind of convincing. Like, yes, mods can fuck with setups to avoid specc, but also there isn't a lot of wiggle room in a micro to troll either side.

this is concerning because you alswsyd said you don't know shit about fuck about mech so what te fuck

[Datisi]

i'm sure if we get annoying enough scum is gonna concede just so that they don't have to listen to us anymore

[Datisi]

i think a town vp would be partner reading me with prism here. he has everyone as a townread except me, prism, shuichi, and im apparently pocketing shuichi. i haven't really engaged with prism much or talked about her, and when he poked about it i gave a pretty noncommittal answer. but he let that go, which i found strange

maybe he hasn't commented on that explicitly bc he knows prism would object to that idea

it took me about three rereads of this page to realize what was this convo btwn baltar/fire but now that i did i wanna murder fire solely over this post

like this feels like some convoluted bullshit that "sounds logical" that scum can pull up to pretend to be having a logical thought process but in actuality it's like, this person didn't explicitly say we're scum together so he's scum like bro what are you talking about??? is that person known for having d1 solves as town but not as scum? if the answer to that is no or idk, then what are you doing

[Datisi]

he'd keep me from losing my mind

i am a catalyst for this and not an inhibitor

[Datisi]

ari
tldr of why baltar is a scumfuck
use simple words pls

[Datisi]

its not about his lack of hero solve, its about how i don't think the worldview he is presenting to the thread is internally consistent. and that he was intentionally dodging committing to an explanation of what his worldview actually is

what is internally inconsistent
the fact that he did not say you're paetners with prism

[Datisi]

Watch this game be like ceph and vpb or something

words cannot explain how malding i would be in postgame

[Datisi]

what else would you use it for

is it enough to say that i have another idea

on one hand i know for sure that you are better at mech/setup spec than me so i should assume that you know what you're doing when you say that you think thats the only plausible use for it

but on the other hand i kinda think it might not be

SPEAK

[Datisi]

what is internally inconsistent
the fact that he did not say you're paetners with prism

i mean, kind of. idk why that would not at least be in his brain and why he would just ignore that i gave a noncommittal answer when he asked if i had given a stance on prism -- like why ask if you don't even care about the answer?

i don't really want to die on this hill bc like i said not a major point

but he's just positioning wherever is convenient for him at the time (like look at how he calls for the wagons to be him and prism and then in 1501 tries to frame it as a 1v1 when it isn't even really about the two of them against each other, it's more about prism voters vs VP voters) and i don't think it matches up with any sort of town thought process

VOTE: fire

i am sorry i am like i feel like i am reading scumtisi fumbling his way through trying to present logically correct reasons why someone is scum

like oh someone thinks these two people are scummy but did not analyzse their interactions in between them so scum
someone called a 1v1 what isn't technically a 1v1 so *radio static* NO TOWN THOUGHT PROCESS

i know there's like no backing for this and people will yell at me but for the time being at least i will vote

and the pedit tells me prism is about to yell at me

[Datisi]

I'm not a big fan deciding D1 lims as hard consensus that way because they rarely seem to be correct.

have you ever had a single game where you actually used this line of reasonign

[Datisi]

why are you zeroing in on this like its the sole thing supporting my vp suspicion

i voted him long before this

i do not choose what my subconscious wants to focus on

[Datisi]

like oh someone thinks these two people are scummy but did not analyzse their interactions in between them so scum
someone called a 1v1 what isn't technically a 1v1 so *radio static* NO TOWN THOUGHT PROCESS

i know there's like no backing for this and people will yell at me but for the time being at least i will vote

and the pedit tells me prism is about to yell at me

I think his point is that it's not so much a 1v1 in that VPB is pushing Prism and Prism is pushing VPB as it is that there is a group of people pushing Prism!scum (Mainly Me/Dwlee) and a group of people pushing VPB!scum (Mainly FireisRedSir)

By setting it up as a dichotomy - he is trying to create an either/or situation - either Prism is scum or VPB is scum because they think each other are scum.

However this is not really how the day evolved - what actually happened is that people wanted to kill VPB/Prism for being scummy independently of each other.

The reason setting up a 1v1 is scum!indicative when it's actually 2 independent wagons - is that it is trying to downplay the possibility of a Prism - Baltar scum team and actually trying to create a dichotomy where if one of them goes through - the other has room to maneuever later on.

the one sole scenario that that makes sense as being scum-indicative is if baltar abd prism are partners and baltar is trying to spew his buddy town after he flips (or trying to get himself spewed town)

and even that doesn't make complete total sense because then he'd be egging on scum scum wagons inseatd of trying to see if any other wagons happen to happen because towns are generally fucking stupid

and if he's scum with not prism then i genuinely see no scum!motivation in trying to lock a 1v1 in

so like

isk vp coul technically be scum but these arguments aint it fam

[Datisi]

i hate that i entered thinking how baltar might be sum and then i started wiring these defenses

[Datisi]

ok if fireisred is mafia

why is fireisred trying to persuade me from voting Prism!town instead of just sheeping me on the Prism vote?

idk

if he nor his buddy arent in danger then why wouldnt he

[Datisi]

ok i'm back to where i came from kinda, i do not have the energy for this game rn i am sorry

i'm gonna stay on my cozy little fencesitty vote of fire

i have had methods of reading vpb that i used to know, then i threw them in the trash once i rolled scum in the large, and now i do not remember what i used to do

i wanted to go over some old games today and try to remember but uhh it's 2am and i cannot

i don't want a yeet to happen before i can do that but also uni is getting bad again and i won't be able to do that until ~40 hours from now at the earliest

pedit: kinda unfortunate timing i guess

[Datisi]

this is beautiful to wake up to

for the record, yes, this was what i softed to skitt ("mena would tell you the same thing" refers to the fact he often called me harder to read if i have a notes pt where i'm spewing unfiltered paranoia), and why i said i would be absolutely malding if the scumteam were vpb/ceph

i will try my best to play third party here and describe hood interactions but i am really low on time today, so please point me to what you want comments on

also this is the reason i didn't wanna flip baltar without being sure he was scum, i wouldn't be happy if i yeeted him as town when we were neighbours :<

[Datisi]

good morning ari

[Datisi]

we can always just flip prism first and make a choice between baltar and cephrir later.

gut tells me scum!shuichi doesn't put that much effort into a scumcase of baltar there, but like idk

[Datisi]

does my avatar make me easier or harder to townread

[Datisi]

okay, so

one thing that i do want baltar to address in detail is the way his read on me progressed throughout this game. because i am reading a certain amount of being unsure whether i am clearly town or bigbraining scum, and i'm not sure i track how his thoughts are supposed to have been progressing in this game

one thing that did ping me as townie from him was the fact that he did not out the hood when it could've made fire scumread him less (when fire asked about his progression on me and there was no way to answer in a way that made sense without outing the hood)

there was one more thing that did ping me townie from him but i won't out it right now since if the hood is pure, i think there's value in scum not knowing that

i gotta run now but offer still stands, lemme know if there's anything specific you want me to look at, i'll try to get to it tonight

[Datisi]

like it opens up a possible path for vp!town that i just wasn't seeing at all before

can you explain this

[Datisi]

i didn't read any of that but the colours are pretty so baltar can be town

[Datisi]

i didn't read any of that but the colours are pretty so baltar can be town

ok this was a shitpost
then i realized that the only instance of baltar using colours that i can think of came from when he was town
so i ran a check on a couple of his recent isos
unfortunately i have not found enough colour usage for it to be a statistically significant tell

so nvm 1937 remains a shitpost

[Datisi]

okay, that post more or less checks out

i say more or less because there have been a few instances that vp has expressed paranoia of me in the hood after that post he called the bright ray of sunshine and the exchange afterwards

so i would like those addressed or explained

[Datisi]

my dumbass fucking brain is unironically townreading the usage of color tags my god

[Datisi]

did you check in which instances you were suspicious of me before answering that question?

[Datisi]

did you check in which instances you were suspicious of me before answering that question?

No. Seems irrelevant to the question when I know why I generally am asking questions.

okay

the reason i asked is because the only instances of you actually doing it are instances where shortly after (in your next post or two), you turn around and call me town - the instance where you were paranoid i was scum gambiting by linking that other game in the hood and then having my buddy enchant claim bunyip (at least i think that was the accusation? i'm not sure), and the instance where you said how i could be scum hiding in the hood while your wagon is building

which is why my takeaway from them was that they were not, like, serious, since in both instances you called me town shortly after

1946 doesn't really make sense if i look at it from that angle, but like, if you didn't check, then idk

but at the same time
like as soon as i think i might have a Good Point for scum!vp it also like goes to shit soon too and i'm tired and idk lole

[Datisi]

After spending hours writing an effort post and then having datisi say "I guess this checks out," I have never better understood Ari's unrequited love.

buddy, it was like 11pm and i'm already tired as shit and i went to study

i lost about 5 minutes wondering why i wasn't getting the right answer on one problem, and it was because i wrote "1+1+1+1=3" so ya know that should tell you how well i'm doing in life right now

anyway, like gun to my head i would say you're scum but i feel negative confidence on that. mostly because like. ok the things you said check out. i did like 1961 because that is the reason why i often make jokey posts or make vaguely related fluff. like i like that. somewhat of a mindmeld. (but it's a mafia theory mindmeld so it's not worth the same as the usual ones.)

at the same time, i'm like, not QUITE feeling it. you entered the hood screaming how one mistake and i'm dead. okay, sure, you can argue that i didn't exhibit scumtells this game. but last game, where you were town, you literally went "yeah i'm not reading datisi on d1 at all i can't read him for shit on d1 lol" and all of a sudden i'm supposed to think that this game you're townreading me because... we had similar thoughts on dwlee? all while in a hood?

i'm sorry i made you do all that work bc i know it's annoying and i was really hoping that something that you wrote would allow me to divine your alignment but it just... hasn't

mmm, day ends in 2 days 5 hours. i will be home from my exam tomorrow in... ~15 hours, so we'll have a little over a day and a half left on the clock. i definitely do not feel Great about voting out vp because, as i said, there were a few moments in the hood that i feel like would've been counter-intiutive for scum!baltar to post and that i don't think he would've easily thought of for pocketing me. i still do want to look at those old games and see if he's similar to them and how i've used to read them, but like at this point i feel less than zero hope that i will be able to solve.

so like, if we're comfortable running the clock down to a day and a half for me to MAYBE divine some stuff but absolutely no promises (and also to read shuichi's case while cross-checking the hood and the main thread), then i guess. if not, i have no fucking clue who i want to vote here anymore because nothing makes SENSE

[Datisi]

as the time is marching forward and the little bit of sanity i had left is disappearing, i might actually do that

[Datisi]

i have said a while back that i do not care about mech arguments.

[Datisi]

i reread the first 15 words of that post 5 times and i still do not understand what you were trying to say with them.

i will probably relook the entirety of this game tomorrow anyway. going to bed before i say something stupid. good night

[Datisi]

i am tired as hell
i am annoyed that baltar did not respond to the thing i wrote up
i am annoyed at a lot of other different things too but

time to try to pay attention to this game for a bit

[Datisi]

at the same time, i'm like, not QUITE feeling it. you entered the hood screaming how one mistake and i'm dead. okay, sure, you can argue that i didn't exhibit scumtells this game. but last game, where you were town, you literally went "yeah i'm not reading datisi on d1 at all i can't read him for shit on d1 lol" and all of a sudden i'm supposed to think that this game you're townreading me because... we had similar thoughts on dwlee? all while in a hood?

this is of interest^^

[Datisi]

been a long while since i've experienced you scumgame properly (no i'm not counting the multiball because it was multiball because i fucking said so that's why)

i did go though some older games, mainly pyp and bunnies, and like. i'm not finding towntells here the same i did there. if you do flip red this game, at least i'll know what to look out for. i did find some other stuff that i did like, mostly wrt hood interactions that i don't think scum!baltar does, but we'll see

i'm taking a short break then i'll try to see what's the situaaaaation with prism and dwlee and see if i can decide on a vote that way

[Datisi]

dwlee
buddy
fam
friend
give me link to where you say why prism is scum (don't give me link to you bigbraining on why we don't lose if we vote our prism as town but do lose of we vote out baltar as town i am not about planning i am about YEETING SCUM)

[Datisi]

read me as town when I've been super transparent in the hood

how did you be transparent in hood that ypu couldn't do as town
you can answer this in hood if easier idc

[Datisi]

Do you want to win or do you want to win scum?

No these aren't the same question

dwlee i'm a horribly sleep deprived esl what do these words MEAN

[Datisi]

both???

[Datisi]

ok i read through the latest part of ari iso i'm fine voting prism i can't

is vpb is scum he hopefully murders me tonight and i don't have to think about this game anymore

[Datisi]

i think that the aggressive way prism started to act towards me/dwlee is actually pretty suspicious because i do remember her acting somewhat similarly at me in that tris mini so i guess

[Datisi]

When i add up 'hoods' + 'mailman' i just get 'pt cop'

how tf do you get pt cop from that

[Datisi]

mailman and pt cop do not interact

sidenote: if anyone in this town is fakeclaiming, it would be a good idea to come clean now, because i remember one older game of fl and things can be solved today because i suspect a certain thing is happening but i am not sure and yeah ok

[Datisi]

I hinted it when Aristeia claimed mailman

quote

[Datisi]

why were you hinting ta if you're a pt cop

[Datisi]

what

[Datisi]

i want no yeets to go through before The Council has had a chance to discuss something, thank you

[Datisi]

fire, do you think it could be enchant or dwlee?

[Datisi]

i don't think dwlee is lying about being a pt cop / ta.

[Datisi]

well, yes, if there is sufficient town power elsewhere.

[Datisi]

i have a hard time believing you're seriously asking this in good faith lol

i told him to ask that. or rather, i said i wanted to but that i don't want to look like i'm rolefishing and then he asked it.

part of the setup specc in the hood i did was talking about this setup run by the mod some 2 years ago:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11642805

it was a two masons, two neighbours, 3 vts vs a goon and a mafia traffic analyst. the reason why i remembered this setup was because in post game, flavour leaf called the setup "simple", and he also called this setup simple in the micro queue when he was inning to mod.

at first i thought of that setup when i saw i randed neighbours. i thought of it again when dwlee claimed pt cop and the two of you claimed neighbours.

so, if you two are masons faking being neighbours, please say so, since then we have too much town power and dwlee is most likely scum.

if not, then i probably overthought this as usual and i'm going back to Traditional Hunting and by that i mean probably deadsheeping ari and then blaming her if we lose, but idk i'll see.

[Datisi]

vt cop + not a very accurate rolecop is something that i can see happening, + we know fl has had a role like that be on the scum side before

but alright, either there is more town power or i'm proven wrong, so

[Datisi]

Well more just like what would the point of scum pt cop/ta be even?

to find the masons, haven't you been following >_>

and alright, thanks, looks like game is not easy mode after all.

[Datisi]

do you say that because you scumread the people in the hood or because of setup specc

fine if it's the former but i will be greatly annoyed if it's the latter

[Datisi]

why are we killing ceph what did ceph do

[Datisi]

If ceph is town how likely is it that vpb is going to get fire flipped tomorrow

based on nothing but 2474 i want to kill fire with fire so probably likely

[Datisi]

I really dont want to kill fire tho

I think we should flip through the big hood

skitter no offense but wtf lmao

[Datisi]

skitt, i don't plan on getting yeeted this game k thanks.

[Datisi]

i'm not sure i get why shuichi would come out and do that huge post on why vp is scum in 1687 but then just doesn't vote him until waaaaaay later when prism flip is almost inevitable

like i get shuichi does not look great but i don't get it

@­skitt why is fire so townie again and why is he townier than vpb

and pls don't tell me "complex thoughts" or something vague like that

[Datisi]

I'm pretty surprised people can find VP more suspicious than Enchant here

but have you considered bunny

[Datisi]

i will say that i do not have a good feeling about this yeet

however i also do not have enough energy right now to effort this game and reread to form a strong, definitive opinion, AND i know it's unfair of me to ask the entire game to wait when i already did not do jack shit since the day started, so like

[Datisi]

the fact that he took the time to write the huge ass scumcase on you based on hood interactions but only decided to vote you when it was like, very VERY likely prism was gonna flip, like that is just so counterintuitive to me from scum

did anyone have a good response to this when i brought it up, idr

and also i kinda buy the ate i guess but i'm tryna ignore that since i am bad at reading ate

[Datisi]

is there a reason why you don't have your vote on anyone, fire?

[Datisi]

...well this sure was a game that i was a player in, huh

thanks for mod, flavour leaf