Micro 1052: Lake Melancholy [END]

[Aristeia]

VOTE: aristeia <3

i am about to sleep, pls don't poop out 50 pages while i'm gone, k thx gn

VOTE: Dats

did you row mafia again my love?

[Aristeia]

I think I should just claim this.

I am a town novice mailman

and I can't think of any utility for my role except for catching a scum ascetic

and Prism claimed Ascetic.

Someone help me

[Aristeia]

Mailman is the one where you send messages at night?

I'm not sure that's damning for prism tbh

yea I can send a message to someone starting on night two

I'm not sure what's the point of my role if there isn't a scum ascetic to catch

I was thinking of just sending love letters to Dats but I don't think that's what the mod had in mind.

I guess it could be a red herring role designed to make me think bad thoughts.

[Aristeia]

Is anyone familiar with FL's mod meta?

[Aristeia]

I mean there could be 2 mafia ascetics in the game and town gets a novice mailman that acts as a semi-checker but not really

[Aristeia]

the thought makes sense from the POV of "i am not the ascetic you are looking for"

[Aristeia]

from a mod POV

if I put a town ascetic into the game with a town novice mailman

and town ascetic claims d1 cuz that's correct play for town ascetic.

and draws push from town novice mailman

it feels somewhat like a setup

and there should be additional town power to compensate for this wild goose hunt that FL is putting us on

[Aristeia]

I can send messages to people starting on Night 2

It's literally a useless role except to catch Mafia Ascetic.

[Aristeia]

I can send messages to people starting on Night 2

It's literally a useless role except to catch Mafia Ascetic.

[Aristeia]

Novice mailman is a pretty strange role no doubt. Why is a mailman so good it needs to be nerfed?

yea that is why I claimed

I was thinking if I was a completely useless role I wouldn't be gated

[Aristeia]

I don't think it's standard play for scum to claim Ascetic immediately

[Aristeia]

if Prism is town, it would be punishing town in a 9P for a very logical thing to happen on Day 1

[Aristeia]

the only person I would head hunt in this PL is Dats

[Aristeia]

<3 you dear

[Aristeia]

right now I think the scum team is exactly skitter/prism

I didn't like how she played around me revealing.

I think everyone else feels genuinely curious

[Aristeia]

I don't particularly want to dominate and hard shove my beliefs through because I could just be wrong and it would be unfun for me to do this.

I just wanted it noted and I do not want to lose to a scumteam of prism/skitter.

I will try very hard to be flexible about my opinions as I know I have a tendency to be stubborn :<

[Aristeia]

155 also comes off incredibly fake to me, particularly the second line.

what is fake about it?

[Aristeia]

You make similar early team speculation as town and repeatedly fall into the gutter. 155 shows some acknowledgement of this.

What's your point?

[Aristeia]

It feels performative, but on more thought I think there's a deeper issue: You previously got hardpunished for speculating on my partner instead of going one at a time. You don't make that mistake again.

I don't understand, can you elaborate?

[Aristeia]

right now I think the scum team is exactly skitter/prism

I didn't like how she played around me revealing.

I think everyone else feels genuinely curious

Is the 'she' here me or prism?
I dont really have thoughts on your claim / prism's role beyond: things will shake themselves out eventually

I still dont think your role makes prism scum

It is you.

[Aristeia]

You make similar early team speculation as town and repeatedly fall into the gutter. 155 shows some acknowledgement of this.

What's your point?

The second line of the post if I had to guess.

I genuinely do not understand your post.

What exactly are you accusing me of doing here ?

[Aristeia]

They're saying you wouldn't speculate on their partner this early cause doing so before bit you in the butt

because I shoved that "partner" and killed the "partner"

I am not shoving skitter here or voting for her

so what mistake is she even accusing me of making.

[Aristeia]

I wrote one post about you/skitter

[Aristeia]

I find it very hard to believe the distinction in 180 is expected of me and in good faith.

?

You're accusing me of being scum because town!me doesn't make "the same mistake"

I don't understand what mistake you are even talking about.

If it's about shoving Meg instead of you on partner spec in that mini - I'm not voting or pushing skitter so how is that even relevant?

[Aristeia]

I wrote one post about you/skitter

Two, and in the second you made it clear that you were very concerned about losing to a scumteam of us specifically.

two consecutive posts is not significant time.

[Aristeia]

Should town!me not be concerned about losing to a scum team of You/Skitter?

Do you think I think you're bad at mafia or something?

[Aristeia]

I think your approach to me is wildly off from what I would expect.

You're being extremely pedantic, and you absolutely would be eager to headhunt me after our last two games together.

You have strange expectations of my play.

[Aristeia]

I am sorry I can't be more entertaining for you Dwlee

[Aristeia]

197 has to be a fucking joke if you're town

your perspective is really strange to me because it feels like you think I don't have worry about your scum!game being good enough to get away with this.

[Aristeia]

which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

it's almost like you are being forced into this 1v1 because you feel obligated atp

[Aristeia]

skitter what is prism pushing me for rn

[Aristeia]

197 has to be a fucking joke if you're town

your perspective is really strange to me because it feels like you think I don't have worry about your scum!game being good enough to get away with this.

197 is asking "Should I not be concerned?". Absolutely, you should be.

My criticism is that you learned to focus on me first, to sort that first and force it through and leave the partner spec for later. You're mitigating this criticism by drawing a new distinction of "Well I'm not voting skitter". Maybe that's important, but I don't think it is. It feels like your intent with 155 was to try and hit tonal points, and let the claim do the work of pushing me for you. It felt very wrong to me.

I'm also concerned you expect me to townread picking a fight with me period because of a certain other game. I do not.

How is it not important?

The mistake I made that you were calling me out on was that I hardshoved your partner instead of shoving you.

I am not shoving you or skitter atp because I don't like relying directly on mech without letting the game progress naturally first.

Because if the mech is wrong or a red herring, we are missing out on a lot of actual dayplay.

Also it is somewhat unenjoyable for me to strictly play based on mechspec with a good playerlist - I don't think I would get any enjoyment out of catching a skitter/you scumteam strictly on mechspec.

[Aristeia]

I find it very hard to believe that you are bewildered by and do not understand my argument.

You understand enough to draw new distinctions that serve as possible mitigating factors, then act like that distinction itself was always at issue by putting them in question form.

I not only do not understand your argument I don't even think you believe it

[Aristeia]

Severely doubt that Ari's master scum plan is to pretend not to understand what's happening. She's better than that.

Do you actually understand Prism's argument?

[Aristeia]

Severely doubt that Ari's master scum plan is to pretend not to understand what's happening. She's better than that.

Do you actually understand Prism's argument?

It sounded like you lost a previous game because you started hunting for a partner too early, so by trying to form a pair now you're outside your town range? It doesn't strike me as a very good argument.

in context let me explain what happened that game;


I was pushing Meg

Prism defended Meg,

I found Prism's defense scummy.

I hardshoved Meg through instead of pivoting for Prism.


I don't understand how this criticism applies to my actions this game where I am not shoving either Skitter or Prism.

[Aristeia]

Ari, why don't you vote prism?

because I want to play the game of mafia and not the game of "mechspec"

[Aristeia]

My argument is that you previously went on a snipehunt chasing my partner before me in the Mini Normal. I don't think you even start on that path again and just focus squarely on me.

Your response to this was that you understood the connection. However you didn't spend that much time on it, and you weren't actually voting skitter. In comparison, you actually wound up forcing my "partner" through first in the other game as you were already there. This distinction is a mitigating response with further depth of context, not a complete rejection.

Perhaps you are in fact town and this distinction critical. Acting like there's obviously no real connection and it's irrational from my end to expect this makes me suspect it is in bad faith.

Maybe you're just using words that are too big for me to understand but I read this and I really don't have a clue what you are talking about

[Aristeia]

Acting like you're not pushing me/Skitter in 155 is again disingenuous.

There are degrees of forcefulness to be distinguished but it is very clear why I think it's going partner snipehunting.

I am not pushing you/skitter.

I am saying to keep that team in mind because if we get to elo and you're both alive then maybe the mechspec was right on day one.

if you're both town or w/e then you probly wouldnt even live to elo so who give a shit?

[Aristeia]

Was your suspicion of skitter mech Ari? I thought it was her reaction to the mech, which is a different thing.

the mech would have to be right in the first place for skitter's reaction to it to be scum!indicative.

as in if I'm right about prism!scum, then I think skitter!scum would react in the way she did by brushing it off.

but if I'm wrong about prism!scum, then I think skitter!scum is more likely to play into the conflict.

[Aristeia]

Don't think I've ever malded at a post as hard as I am at 253.

I am just really dumb you need to use simple words with me :<

[Aristeia]

ok while she's gone can someone translate 248 into easy english for me.

[Aristeia]

ok but I'm literally not pushing a teamread. so I don't understand her criticism because the very basis of it is wrong.

[Aristeia]

these are the posts I made about skitter/prism:




I am very tempted to push Prism just on the mech alone.[I do not think it makes sense to have a Town!Ascetic with a Town Novice Mailman]

I find Skitter to be the most likely partner to Prism due to her reaction to the mech revelation felt handwavey.

However I don't like playing games solely based on mech because I can be wrong and it's just not interesting or fun.

I recognize that if I hardshove Prism atp due to mech and try to force the issue it can give scum an area to hide in if Prism is town and make the game difficult to win - I would not derive any significant pleasure from catching Prism!scum on d1 just off Mech.

I'd rather just play the game. The reason I floated the Skitter/Prism team is because I have a lot of respect for their scum!game and town!game and if we find ourselves at 5P, I want the players to keep in mind this possibility.

I do not expect I will survive to such a time.


I don't understand why Prism decided to shove me atp because.

(a) It's not very good for scum!her if she flips town me today(I don't think this will happen, but I guess it could be refuge in audacity)

(b) If town!her expects there to be a second ascetic in the game(a scum ascetic I am supposed to catch) then by necessity I would be NKed before I find such a scum player.

I feel like the best thing for the game state would be for me to simply ignore her for a while to let other things develop.

[Aristeia]

ok but I'm literally not pushing a teamread. so I don't understand her criticism because the very basis of it is wrong.

right now I think the scum team is exactly skitter/prism

maybe not final, no force, therefore not teamread nor push

but wonder why think teampush

because skitter explained your criticism of me as a teampush

[Aristeia]

ari post scumteam spec. ari fall flat.

lesson focus one at a time

ari post scum spec again. prism say maybe scum. ari say do as town still, just less force. it true, this game less force. why prism think scummy?

prism say maybe still scum. maybe town no spec team at all.

also tonal performative concern with 155

thank you <3

[Aristeia]

I find you scummy but I expect you to be nightkilled if you're town so I don't feel any need to push you.

[Aristeia]

If you're town I expect you to find the bad guys and kill them.

Yes I am a very demanding person who is unreasonable.

[Aristeia]

I don't think in the world that we're TvT, the scum are going to walk a tightrope and keep both of us alive because we're both fairly good at catching bad people.

Your focus on me is unhealthy for the game state and you should recognize that if you are in fact town here.

[Aristeia]

thats why im confused. i don't know if its really a scumtell for him

I think he is often oblivious as both alignments

[Aristeia]

Well there was that time we had a fire in the Citadel and you let Dats do all the firefighting while you roasted s'mores and got wasted.

Despite your active sabotage we did manage to root out the villains though.

[Aristeia]

I do like what you've done with your hair.

It's very fashion foward.

[Aristeia]

did you book on spirit? :<

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Skitter30

[Aristeia]

it can also catch a... *gasp* town ascetic so i'm not sure why you're suddenly so into the idea that there must be a scum ascetic

well there's no need to "catch" a town ascetic as a town ascetic would just claim?

it just feels like a very low utility role that can really only do one thing that +town win con

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

I should probably look at vote counts before I vote huh. ~.~

[Aristeia]

I am not awake enough for this game

[Aristeia]

I love it when you're so serious Dats <3

I don't actually agree on the point but I'll need to reread it when I am more awake

[Aristeia]

I think you're at 2 votes Skitts

[Aristeia]

but Dats is spiritually on you

[Aristeia]

What do *you* think abt dats?

I think he's just town but I'm not like the best at reading him >_>

[Aristeia]

okay i think i get what my subconsciousness was trying to tell me

skitt's fight with baltar *really* reminds me of the fight she and i had very early on in the recently finished large normal where she wanted to pick a fight with me early but it's wasn't going exactly right so she kept being like "but guys look how scummy is datisi being look!!!" and like

like I think this is a thought that goes thru Town!him's head

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

still on skitter in spirit but i don't appreciate unannounced y-1's this soon with enchant in the game

I don't think scum!him reacts this way to you being put at e-1 by me when i'm half-awake

[Aristeia]

Why is this what you're popping in to comment on

i felt like it

kind of wish you'd do something else tbh :<

[Aristeia]

i do want to note I have seen Dats fumble around with his vpb read at semi-elo for a week when VpB was blazingly obvtown so I am not surprised he doesn't have one as of yet.

[Aristeia]

He's on the townside of null for me but nothing I‘d feel confident mailing in yet.

[Aristeia]

it has been... less than a day since the game started

WILLFULLY IGNORING

do you GENUINELY think that town!me always jumps at solving the whole game immediately and any time i put it off, i'm scum

this ain't 2020 anyome SKITTER

I do feel a bit willfully ignored now that you mention it ~.~

[Aristeia]

VP it feels like your dwlee read is rooted in how you specifically play mafia-alignment and not on any actual meta or read of how Dwlee plays.

[Aristeia]

Ok, so your argument is optimal town play in this setup is ascetic claims, mailman doesn't claim and tests N1, confirms nature of ascetic and town assumes scum wouldn't claim ascetic, ergo, claimed is townie?

I suppose I can see that. What do you think about prism automatically going to 2 ascetics?

no

my argument is that "if we have a town mailman and a town ascetic, then town mailman's job is to send a message to the ascetic and once it fails, it confirms that the ascetic is indeed (probably) an ascetic"

idk where you're getting the idea of "also scum wouldn't claim ascetic" from my post there

i have absolutely no thoughts on that because i hate mechanical setup specc like that and i can read absolutely nothing of prism's alignment from that

a town mailman can't confirm the existence of an ascetic, it can only look for one that is hiding.

[Aristeia]

@vpb: sooooooo had you even read my posts when you said that i had no commentary on the ari/prism thing?

Also now that you've read them, you're moving the goalposts from: zero commentary on the argument to none until prism prodded me to my posts about the argument were weak ...

Also 240 is a direct response to 238, where prism questioned how i was reading her based on the ari/prism argument ...

I'm not moving the goal posts. Jesus. This is what I mean by you're being disingenuous.

When I said zero commentary, I clearly meant "little of substance" and not "have you literally ever said one thing about this." I tried to good faith this discussion by even acknowledging I was being hyperbolic in my verbiage.

To come back and pretend the posts you cited are some clear demonstration of you taking decisive stances I am ignoring is laughable. Anyone can click on those posts and see they are waffley except the one I acknowledged could be genuinely interpreted as you saying something.

tfw vpb claims hes not doing something and then clearly explains that he is actually doing it.

[Aristeia]

idk
someone pls interact with me directly my brain cannot understand this game as is

did you roll town Dats?

[Aristeia]

the important thing (maybe) is that either way he thinks he isn't doing it

this is true

[Aristeia]

actually on second thought it's not actually AI for him because scum!him also wouldn't believe he's done anything wrong

[Aristeia]

there isn't a lot of AI stuff but he feels comfortable [I know I shouldn't toneread people but I can't help it]

[Aristeia]

that reminds me, i think dwlee was talking about a datisi/vp team?

surely in that case datisi is excited and stays up past his bedtime to knock out some theatre in the early thread first

same goes for datisi/ari probably

this is probly the most townie thought in his iso imo

[Aristeia]

nvm skitter used the word ping she is conftown

and this is just cute

[Aristeia]

VP why do you think Skitter is Mafia again?

[Aristeia]

terrible townread

[Aristeia]

I felt 197 was intentionally shifting the discussion to something more favorable underhandedly rather than a direct refutation. Playing the "I don't understand" card simultaneously when I looped its point back around to the original argument had me in disbelief. I interpreted it as a glimmer of understanding and sleight of hand, so yes, it felt incredibly malicious.

Aristeia has previously accused me of intentionally making things convoluted/hard to understand, in another we had a postgame blowup about how she wanted to pick a miserable fight with me only to tactically replace out when it was started on my terms, and I didn't think it was even

slightly

difficult to understand for someone familiar with the feedback I directly gave her. It's also been a very effective and frequently used tactic against me, and Aristeia has seen it in action.

I thought Aristeia would headhunt and play dumb as scum, absolutely. I don't think she'd actually abandon pushing, though, if those were really her motivations.

The reason I did not understand your argument is because I was confused about how you could feel that strongly about something that is incredibly weak and borderline nonsensical to me.

I re-read your statements and tried to figure out if there was something in there that I was missing.

But as it has now been explained to me over and over there is none so I'm going to just ignore your "case" on me as it feels not even worth addressing atp.

[Aristeia]

I was talking about the previous engagement that multiple people tried to explain to me.

I am not sure what Prism thinks atp.

[Aristeia]

you're not fuckin welcome

jk hope ur enjoying being freed from the tyranny of the aviation industry

I am indeed, ty

Also prism is officially a tr for me mow as well

Have you actually studied any prism town games?

[Aristeia]

you're not fuckin welcome

jk hope ur enjoying being freed from the tyranny of the aviation industry

I am indeed, ty

Also prism is officially a tr for me mow as well

Have you actually studied any prism town games?

I meant scum games.

[Aristeia]

There are quite a few and catching scum!you is on my bucket list but reading your shitposting is like also 85% of my enjoyment in this game and I'm not sure how I would survive without you.

[Aristeia]

Thank you I hope you have a wonderful evening as well Prism. <3

[Aristeia]

Usually I just try to get a feel for how much you're suffering

[Aristeia]

I honestly would expect a paragon level game from town!you given how much scum you've rolled in the past year.

[Aristeia]

I am unreasonable but you are very good when you want to be.

[Aristeia]

just tell yourself you only do great when you are on this alt

it's a great excuse for being a lazy bum the majority of the time.

[Aristeia]

just to prove to yourself you still got it.

[Aristeia]

Perhaps staring at this thread is not going to make this game solve itself.

[Aristeia]

a mailman cannot confirm if a player is ascetic.

because if the target is not ascetic, they can simply pretend to have not received the message


mailman =/= checker

the only utility is finding a scum ascetic that is unclaimed.

[Aristeia]

right now I think the scum team is exactly skitter/prism

Can you tell me what you were scum reading from skitter at this point?

Her thoughts felt more like someone who wanted to bury the Ari v Prism fight rather than curious about the mech implications which makes sense to me if she is partnered with Prism. If she's mafia and prism is town, I would expect her to play more into the fight because she knows such a 1v1 can consume a lot of thread bandwidth and potentially 2 mislims back to back for her.

Overall I just felt she jumped to a conclusion faster than made sense for town!her to be.

[Aristeia]

I think I should just claim this.

I am a town novice mailman

and I can't think of any utility for my role except for catching a scum ascetic

and Prism claimed Ascetic.

Someone help me

Can I get your follow up thoughts on your claim and Prism's role now that we have discussed it more?

I'm also thinking more about the gated nature of your mailman claim, and thinking maybe that does fit with a town ascetic? Like, town ascetic claims D1, and town needs to decide to yeet them or not. Mailman then has a decision: Do I out D1, or try to keep quiet and test if this person is ascetic tonight by my action failing.

It seems kind of pointless, but maybe that distraction plays with other PRs or something?

Are you still as convinced as you were that mechanically Prism's role doesn't fit with yours as town?

Maybe you're working on this already, but you kind of gave your thoughts on the middle bit here Ari. Can I get your thought on the bolded questions though? These are probably more important.

I remain skeptical that her role can be town but I am giving her space to catch mafia because Prism is a very good player and tends to catch bad people and get fearkilled.

[Aristeia]

ari: i think if prism is town then skitter is also town because she tried to play down Ari v P and pushed for it being TvT.

prism: vote skitter it is then


(:

[Aristeia]

And upon reflection, i'm less confident in town-ari than i was ro begin with

Pedit i actually think i would egg it on as tvt as scum. Like pick a side and just make it a bigger thing
Kinda weird how you and ari are coming to opposite conclusions about what i would do but still both scumread me

i do not scumread you

[Aristeia]

i said i want to go to you

if

Prism flipped scum first

that is not the same thing as scumreading you.

[Aristeia]

i just had a thought about how evil this would be if me/prism was actually S/S and we yeeted skitter d1 on this weird convoluted back and forth.

[Aristeia]

yes, if it's tvt, and i very much think it is now, i think you stay way the hell away from it beyond basic middlemanning and just let my inertia carry it

hated push on baltar from basically minute 1

I don't think "basic middlemanning" is an accurate description of her efforts to tamp down our fight.

also i recognize how hilarious this is that im doing a conditional scumread on skitter for trying to defuse AvP and Prism is doing a scumread of skitter for not defusing AvP

[Aristeia]

It would indeed
I dont think (?) that's the universe we live in tho

I also prism has a very wrong assessment of what i would habe been doing as scum if ari/prism is tvt

Pedit no thay's a bad vote

why do you think she has that assessment.

[Aristeia]

i am literally voting the one player who townreads me and would actually consider following me on a vote

yea it is a weird look for sure.

[Aristeia]

i do have a very small brain

[Aristeia]

I dont really get dats' prism vote tbh

it's probably because Datisi thinks Prism is Mafia.

[Aristeia]

It would indeed
I dont think (?) that's the universe we live in tho

I also prism has a very wrong assessment of what i would habe been doing as scum if ari/prism is tvt

Pedit no thay's a bad vote

why do you think she has that assessment.

No idea

I don't understand how you can have no idea what Prism is doing yet maintain a townread on her.

[Aristeia]

I don't understand how you can have no idea what Prism is doing yet maintain a townread on her.

I mean i dont understand this bit, but i dont think she gets tilted for that reason during her argument with u as scum

so you have never seen her fake tilt as scum

but you are townreading her off her tilt

amazing

[Aristeia]

I wound up bedridden with a migraine, and I'm not going to say it is Aristeia's fault, but I am saying I see no reason it

isn't

her fault.

Kind of sorry for tilt a whirl earlier. kinda not. I know I can be vicious in my critique. Simultaneously I think some of it is deserved. Fullclaim was stupid but most people probably assumed it anyway so w/e.

I have other thoughts but I'm just going to chew for awhile. I'm miserable as shit but know that eventually my pendulum swings back and I enter my Ebling Mis phase. Fine leaving my vote on skitter right now, want to wait it out but flip isn't imminent.

Or finds her scummy I should say. Is anyone townreading skitt?

her read of prism has reached "not aligned" levels of terrible

[Aristeia]

Prism is probably the scariest scum player on the site.

She makes catboi look like a house cat.

and your read on her is "townread" for "getting tilted" when you haven't even read a game of scum!her faking tilt as a defensive technique

absolutely malding.

[Aristeia]

btw that game she linked earlier where I misplayed vs scum!her is an example of her using tilt in a game in case you want to compare what it looks like.

[Aristeia]

I fake tilt when it is to my advantage or when I think a specific player will townread it (eg. Firebringer, arguably skitter)

It was almost completely to my disadvantage, you weren't pushing me and explicitly gave me the OK to do whatever I wanted you wombat

if you are mafia ascetic I imagine that you're probably actually tilted that this setup has a novice mailman in it.

[Aristeia]

Ari, how long do you think it will take you to get a dayplay read on Prism?

I am scumreading her dayplay.

[Aristeia]

Ari, how long do you think it will take you to get a dayplay read on Prism?

I am scumreading her dayplay.

what's the bullet point then? Idgi.

It's not something I can type out over mobile. I'll probably put all my thoughts down later tonight when I have time.

[Aristeia]

prism: i tilt strategically as scum to pocket specific people who will townread my tilt.
skitter: i think prism's tilt is not scum tilt


i can't even

[Aristeia]

Can lead a horse to water...

its like are you trolling her atp to get me to townread her?

what is this game

[Aristeia]

I recognize that if I push you too hard and you are town it is unlikely you will be able to catch any scum and the game state will move in a direction that is harder for us to read/win so I'm mostly just letting the day play out and seeing if you can actually produce something that will make me go "yea that's town prism!"

It's just hard to get there right now.

I do recognize that I am sometimes wrong when I feel absolutely convinced of something being right because being absolutely right and absolutely wrong often feel like the same thing to me.

I am sorry if I am making you miserable.

[Aristeia]

I wouldn't be surprised if enchant was scum just watching this go down

[dwlee vote intensifies]

THis is exactly what I expect scum to conclude here. It's lazy.

Dwlee is incredibly lazy as both alignments.

Might actually be town indicative because I think there are easier paths for scum!them to take actually.

[Aristeia]

What's your read on Prism currently?

[Aristeia]

What have you found mildly townie about Prism?

[Aristeia]

do you think Prism says that about Enchant if they are S/S?

[Aristeia]

don't have the energy for mafia right now, will be here tomorrow

Spoiler: For Dats

Hope everyone is having a great Easter weekend

[Aristeia]

do you still think she's town

[Aristeia]

Alternatively I'm just scum like Aristeia's been trying to tell you the entire game.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Aristeia]

I'm not sure how much more clearly Enchant has to soft vig but dwlee is probably town for not noticing it

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Prism

I guess I should at least put my vote where my mouth has been.

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

Yes I know the odds of the greatest scum player to ever grace the site with her presence deciding to play passively knowing that I want to push her is incredibly low but I think this is the line she actually takes this game because she knows I would most likely town read this type of play from her and she is as frustrated as I am.

Also I would probably feel sick if I just let her get away on day one again especially if she mechanically outted herself as scum to me in the first 24 hours.

[Aristeia]

shhh just go with it

[Aristeia]

nod and smile

[Aristeia]

why do you even think there is a vig Enchant?

[Aristeia]

Does anyone actually think Enchant is townie

I do

VOTE: Enchant

^_^

Unvote, or you will be night killed.

also what does this mean

why would prism be nightkilled for voting you.

[Aristeia]

I don't get it

[Aristeia]

is this something mechanical or are you just trolling me

[Aristeia]

can you vote for Prism with me please?

[Aristeia]

why is dwlee mafia?

[Aristeia]

why do you think dwlee is mafia

[Aristeia]

which thoughts of dwlee's are fake?

[Aristeia]

Let's go from opposite.

Why i need to vote prism again?

I think Prism is mafia because of mechanics and dayplay.



Mechanically speaking - I don't think it makes sense to have a town novice mailman and a town ascetic in a micro - you're setting up a very natural conflict to occur almost immediately because the mailman will think they are supposed to catch the ascetic and the ascetic is actually a mafia ascetic - you are immediately putting the town down one elim a large number of times and I don't see how you can compensate the town with another PR to offset this in a micro since our margin of error is very slim - we functionally usually only get 3 mislims total.

Also I don't think the setup makes sense for a town ascetic and a mafia ascetic because town ascetic claiming on D1 is going to draw out the mailman claim which then can't really find the mafia ascetic because the mailman will just get killed at night.

also novice mailman is an extremely weak role - functionally the only thing it can do is find a mafia ascetic that did not claim. You can't really set up a code to exchange claim or fake claim since by the time the message is sent, you're at D3 which is elo if we do not hit a mafia in d1/d2.

also like novice mailman is not a role that when claimed makes you town or w/e - it's not like a friendly neighbor or a mason in terms of power level that can prove itself.

I think in Micros, the power level of the town roles should be usually mason equivalent - as in 2 masons v 2 mafia 5 VT is a baseline level of balance.

so I just have trouble believing that a novice mailman role would have no utility or be purposefully a red herring to get a TvT conflict on D1 it's just silly in terms of balancing a micro. I can see a miller in a larger game like a Mini or a Large but in a Micro it just feels much too scumsided for me to accept.

Why does Prism claim ascetic as a mafia ascetic? - I think she has some expectation that she will be targeted at night. She enjoys playing mafia but she absolutely hates mechanical guilties with a passion - I think she has a strong enough reputation that nearly any TPR worth their salt would target her on night one and she knows this - I think she decided to claim it because why not? I don't think she expected a role as niche as "novice mailman" to exist on the TPR side - mechanically it pigeonholes her slot as mafia - that's why her initial kneejerk reaction was to hardpush me as mafia who was headhunting her etc by making up such a claim. I don't think I'm nearly creative enough to make up such a role to target her because I'm not a very bright person.

I am unsure exactly why she switched tack later on in the day - I believe she thinks maybe it is difficult to flip me or perhaps I would leave her alone if she townreads me and uses AtE.

On her dayplay I think she is decidedly less sharp than she usually is and it feels like she's more in anti-spew mode where she's just bantering and having fun rather than actually trying to push/hunt seriously which I know she is extremely good at.

I think she's taken this line of play as scum rather than her usual extremely strong and thread dominant style because she knows that I have certain expectations of how she plays mafia and she is trying to get townread off of indifference[yes I actually townread her when she's bored and joking I know it's stupid]

The overall feeling I get from reading her play this game is that she's more interested in surviving, giving few hints about associatives and not really interested in actually pushing/killing anyone she suspects, she feels like she is browsing through a brochure for like which hat to wear.

[Aristeia]

also if she flips town ascetic I will hate myself and go throw up in a bucket; but I think I will regret it much more if she is mafia and I let her get away on D1 again and I just think she is mafia here.

if the overall decision is to not flip prism's slot and she is mafia but I at least tried I think I can have some comfort in that.

I am not going to stamp my feet and pout if I don't get my way if you all have better ideas about where to go I am fine taking a back seat for this decision - it just feels like we are not really going anywhere at the moment.

[Aristeia]

I think Prism is mildly townie but I wouldn't mind flipping cause ascetic claim + scary + novice mailman

their tilt

no uh I liked their read on Enchant but only if enchant is actually town.

I am willing to vote prism

you will have to explain to me why this sequence of thoughts from dwlee rings fake to you.

[Aristeia]

the tldr of dayplay prism mafia is that she is playing to be townread and not playing to catch mafia.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats

are you ok dear?

[Aristeia]

you do feel a bit different dear :<

I don't really want to scumread you for it though ~_~

[Aristeia]

skitter I think you are just picking up Datisi being different from his baseline for rl reasons rather than actual alignment issues because I think there are lines of play he takes as scum that he hasn't taken.

I am not basing this read off pre-flipping Prism as mafia.

I do know this looks stupid because I horribly misread him the last time I played with him but that was a terrible associative read and not actually based solely on his play.

[Aristeia]

I'm not sure.

He feels kind of scummy if Prism flips mafia.

He asked me questions about Prism but no real followup.

[Aristeia]

I know he feels off but I don't think he feels scum off [if he's actually mafia never let me read Datisi again]

[Aristeia]

ok so this is a really stupid reason to townread Datisi and you can laugh at me for being stupid if it's completely wrong.

but like every time i ask him if he rolled town.

and he says something like "Yes I did dear and I am here to protect you and kill all the bad guys yada yada"

but this time I asked him and he just said "Yes"

and that's different from the other times because it's kind of cold and flat.

and I don't think he'd be different if he was mafia and trying to trick me.

[Aristeia]

but he is a psych major so maybe he's just tap dancing on my poor confused brain ~____~

[Aristeia]

I guess VP just feels kind of floaty and not really very committal to anything

[Aristeia]

If skitter is town I am happy if both myself/Aristeia go in the dunce pile if skitter is scum I am going to burn down Aristeia's house throw rocks through Aristeia's window call Aristeia mean names gently reassure Aristeia and tell her it is okay we all make mistakes from time to time

I'll just go cry in the bathtub and drink a bottle of vodka while telling myself I'm not

worthless trash

awful at the game.

[Aristeia]

-__-

isn't that what you said about me pushing scorp when you thought I was mafia

[Aristeia]

but you actually thought I was mafia :<

so you mean you just think the behavior is more likely from town

and you pulled it to defend me because you thought it was a townie behavior from scum!me?

[Aristeia]

you can always sheep me on prism and yell at me if i'm wrong

[Aristeia]

Either way i gived it thought and i think, if gived choice from Ascetic and novice Mailman, i elim novice mailman like 90% times.

because?

[Aristeia]

are you trolling or trying to play in good faith?

[Aristeia]

hmm I think everyone's posted and nobody really wants to eliminate prism so if we lose to scum!her I'm not going to care

[Aristeia]

she probably will hate winning this way as scum more than I will hate losing to her as town.

so I think I'm fine with this outcome.

VOTE: Enchant

[Aristeia]

I have run out of patience for your bullshit

[Aristeia]

ok bye

[Aristeia]

I don't understand why Enchant is on E-1 and that troubles me.

feelings

[Aristeia]

i find your play this entire game underwhelming

[Aristeia]

if i cant eliminate who i think is mafia im going to try to eliminate the person who has tilted me the most.

[Aristeia]

i have no idea about mech or setup spec so ill let you guys sort this out i guess

I am glad people refuse to think and just punt the basics

[Aristeia]

hmm i am becoming unpleasant and mean so I am going to take a break

UNVOTE:

[Aristeia]

hmm i am becoming unpleasant and mean so I am going to take a break

UNVOTE:

You think i am evil, but i am actually love everyone, especially myself, don't think i try to annoy anyone on purpose.

No I don't think you're evil.

I just hate you.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: vpb

[Aristeia]

Aristeia straight up thinks I don't know how to interact with scum partners oh god bless her

I don't actually care about winning anymore

[Aristeia]

Then put your vote back on me, shut the fuck up, and go outside Jesus Christ

Another game of this Trust Fall shit

I do recognize I can be deeply unpleasant to play with.

[Aristeia]

funny story

I am in fact outside and I almost got hit by a bus while rageposting at Enchant so fun times.

[Aristeia]

i once almost got hit by a car when crossing the street because i was playing mafia, fun times

it is a miracle we are still alive

[Aristeia]

it makes so much sense that town!prism demand i see things thru a scum!prism worldview and everyone is just fine with it

[Aristeia]

not everything is about you, you insufferable peacock

[Aristeia]

is it really wifom when shes pouring the wine all over the table

[Aristeia]

You won't consider a town Prism worldview

I have given my best effort to eliminate you.

Everyone else thinks I am wrong. That's fine because either

A) I'm right and we will lose and there is nothing I can do about that.

or

B) I'm wrong and I am not going to feel sick about mislimming you


In either scenario it doesn't make any sense for me to dwell upon a Scum!you worldview.

So I am moving on. My world does not revolve around you.

[Aristeia]

I mean I could try harder but it would affect my mental health to try harder and I am going to go for being a nice and balanced person rather than be truly toxic and insufferable.

[Aristeia]

I wanna know what it's like

let's just erase all the downsides.

[Aristeia]

its probably because he thinks townie thoughts

[Aristeia]

its probably because he thinks townie thoughts

and here Im' closing in on my catch up and was going to tell you I might be down to lim prism with you. SAD

cool story

[Aristeia]

so fire sucked up to skitter by scumreading her

excellent takes vpb

[Aristeia]

I don't want to read Prism/Ari fighting for anymore days because it's fucking annoying.

I'm done fighting with Prism.

[Aristeia]

Only friendly banter from my end from now on

[Aristeia]

skitter, do you actually see progression in fire's read on you or just him saying "she's less scummy now"?

He had a few posts along thosw lines, and i think its a townie read because i think scum continues to push me there, and doesnt really back off ...

Pedit i know >.>

I can't wait for the Prism lecture about the reflexive stepback being a staple of good scum play

[Aristeia]

Does anyone actually think VPB is asking questions in good faith trying to figure things out

[Aristeia]

I'm not great at spelling thank you

[Aristeia]

Does anyone actually think VPB is asking questions in good faith trying to figure things out

i think its possible enough that i plan to continue answering them

You're so naïve - it's adorable.

[Aristeia]

Maybe I'm just jaded because I'm in a bad mood.

I should log off.

Good night friends.

[Aristeia]

except enchant

I still hate you

[Aristeia]

partially tongue in cheek

I do think you are probably the best scum player on the site currently playing - that part is not tongue in cheek.

[Aristeia]

it's actually tragic because if you can't be eliminated here I'm not sure what the point of even playing anymore for you is.

It's like Al Capone put his machine gun on the table and the cops can't seem to see him.

Is it time for him to retire?

[Aristeia]

ok making myself log off now.

If I post again someone yell at me.

Good night!

[Aristeia]

you could copy paste your role pm in here and she woudn't believe you're mafia

[Aristeia]

I'm going to resort to using memes to communicating.

[Aristeia]

I am bad with computers - my brain is the size of a peanut.

[Aristeia]

Ari i said like four times i want to talk to you more abt why prism is scum >.>

Prism i dont really get where the sudden revelation came from, did you skip that post the first time? Why did it wipe away the badness of the first group of posts ...

I mean someone already linked to a game that Boon modded in the past that is a Micro with a Town Bunyip and a Scum Ascetic and Boon in the postgame literally said he liked the setup so I'm not sure how much more clear this needs to get for you.

[Aristeia]

or like anyone here

[Aristeia]

yes aristeia he ran the same fucking closed setup again lmao

well it's not the exact same setup

[Aristeia]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=84719

like here's the link.

8 players - 1 Mafia Goon 1 Mafia Ascetic Neighbor Hood of 3.

Town Power:
1 Shot Tracker
1 Shot Weak Friendly Neighbor
Town Bunyip
Night 2 Bulletproof Neighbor
Vanilla Town Neighbor
Vanilla Town


I don't see any red herring roles. Town Power Roles Serve a clear purpose.

[Aristeia]

how can you be mad at me shoving you when you want to see me hurl in a bucket and throw rocks through my window?

[Aristeia]

I don't know how many games you have seen in the last two years but the modmeta atm is literally to punish even the most basic level of rolespec, ex. the mini normal with 3 doctors, the mini normal with a vanilla cop, 3 killblocking PRs, and all goons, the game with mafia neighbors

like does this even make sense to apply to Boon who basically siteflaked for a year and never followed mod meta when he was modding in the first place?

what does boon's micro meta have to do with the NRG?

[Aristeia]

I hate talking about Prism being scum because you will never listen to me I'm going to be content with watching her kill you all

[Aristeia]

I should've just stayed in bed.

Coming back to this thread was a shitty idea.

Shuichi I told you to yell at me if I came back tonight.

[Aristeia]

Good Night again

[Aristeia]

I didn't want to leave like that because being angry is not good for me so I wrote up a dialogue to show that I have now calmed down and I am going to take this game as a joke instead of seriously.

*This is a work of fiction I am not actually quoting a PT or Discord Channel*

*Do not discuss ongoing games even with your friends who are not playing in them*

Spoiler: Totally didn't happen Chat

[Aristeia]

what else would you use it for