Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Ginngie]

Sup Dunnstral is town so lets go from there

seeing deadline extended reads like we dont have much time to chat but i gotta finish some pretty big obligations like literally rn so I'll chat when thats over

If you scumread my slot talk to me; not meta, but quite simply mafia have a hard time having real time conversations and will talk at or about players, but usually not TO or with a player. So, it kills two birds with one stone as you can further sort the new slot and honestly if I'm a scumread, best thing to do is grill the replacement IMO. Also, it'll help me form my own reads because I personally love seeing if peoples reads are genuine on me.

[Ginngie]

Is dance equivalent to the game?

I'm reading player will leave the dance

does that equate to a player will be voted out?

Like if I was voted out does that mean I've left the dance?

[Ginngie]

Okay I think I got it

Firebringer couldn't find a partner so they were (voted out) removed from the dance

Left an even amount of players so now mafia eliminates one person creating the lone person.

The phase we are in now, that lone player may basically try to convince someone to switch partners so their partner is eliminated instead of them.

Each phase so far only one person gets eliminated. Then the next phase two people are gonna be eliminated.

If I have time I'll try and read about 10-15 pages a day till im caught up. I think I've grasped how this works.

[Ginngie]

So from what I can gather

Scum eliminated Bells partner

My gut reaction is that bell is town here because of if scum, we'll be able to see the theatre of scum having to dump their partner and trade for bell to become a SvS pair.

I dont see a scum player risking themselves like that on day 1 if I'm honest. I love this set up already.

Alrighty enough speculation imma go read some shit

[Ginngie]

AYYYYYY So last time I was maf, and like, we didn't solve in the hood at all, and I kinda liked that sooo I don't plan on posting significantly in the hood, like I'd rather just dump thoughts in the thread, so yeah, but TOWN!!! LET'S GOOOOOO I only accept dance proposals from town! We are endgaming! gg. tryhard mode activated. maf be scared

I know it's the first page but I cant help but talk about this.

Andante states in this post that they were mafia and didn't like posting in hoods not needing to solve. What I can interpret is that they found no real reason to post in hoods, so she decided to write them off for this game.

What I find interesting however, is that I come into the PT and it's literally just Andante trying to strike up any conversation and Prism left her hanging. What I like about this is that I personally can't help but try and socialize(play the game) with whatever topics I'm allowed to post in. It's like I can see the growth of at first thinking the hoods aren't necessary; then thinking hey might as well try and use it since they're town this game and then seeing the frustration of of Prism not posting in the hood.

Now the hood was created on the 18th and I iso'd Prism to check for their interactions with Andante after the hood was created. Didn't really interact with each other. And I kinda forgot where I was going with this cuz I got distracted by the isos. Oh I think what I was looking for was how Prism and Andante interacted in the main thread and not just the PT. Prism and Andante didn't really communicate in the thread, and given Prism's stated annoyance with hoods, I do give props for Andante for trying to do anything at all in the hood. Think about it from scum!Andante perspecitive. You like ignoring hoods as scum, and you get partnered with someone who hates hoods; thats literally a perfect pairing to just ignore it. Now town!Andante however can't help but try to interact. There's that need to solve which is hard to fake.

As silly as this is, I believe Andante is my first townread for the game.


ALSO mala it's way to early to be calling me townie, honestly it shouldn't feel townie because I gave an RVS post and did set up speculation before doing reads like this post. However I didn't have this post yet, so I'm curious what I've done that you felt was townie.

[Ginngie]

Actually, unless the math actually works for that to be good?

Gut reaction is that that kills 2 scum for the price of one if one of them slips up/ falls under suspicion.

I haven't looked at how that affect elo, and I should probably do that

Well a S/S pair isn't that bad. It almost always requires scum to eliminate scum from the game. I haven't played in a few years but I'd love to interact with you about vote count theory. One tenet I find really simple is that it's really hard for a wagon of 7 town members to come to a consensus and find a mafia player. Day 1 is being used for the example. You'll usually find one or two scum on the wagon and it makes it easier because town just has to get it right with 5 players instead of 7. Now imagine a SvS pair. It's actually a hilariously good excuse as to why they wont vote each other out. Scum gets a scapegoat to make forming wagons on themselves harder.

I would like your thoughts on this because you seem like you a good player to discuss the numbers with and admittedly I've only studied the setup for an hour total.

[Ginngie]

Sup Dunnstral is town so lets go from there

What was this based off of?

I'm just that good

[Ginngie]

I really do hate the me feeling townie post idk why but if I had to make a choice i'd have bell switch with mala.

[Ginngie]

Spoiler: My first 4 posts of the game

Sup Dunnstral is town so lets go from there

seeing deadline extended reads like we dont have much time to chat but i gotta finish some pretty big obligations like literally rn so I'll chat when thats over

If you scumread my slot talk to me; not meta, but quite simply mafia have a hard time having real time conversations and will talk at or about players, but usually not TO or with a player. So, it kills two birds with one stone as you can further sort the new slot and honestly if I'm a scumread, best thing to do is grill the replacement IMO. Also, it'll help me form my own reads because I personally love seeing if peoples reads are genuine on me.

intro post with RVS, and posting mafia theory, RVS only possible alignment indicator

Is dance equivalent to the game?

I'm reading player will leave the dance

does that equate to a player will be voted out?

Like if I was voted out does that mean I've left the dance?

This is just asking for clarification of the set up, nothing alignment indictive

Okay I think I got it

Firebringer couldn't find a partner so they were (voted out) removed from the dance

Left an even amount of players so now mafia eliminates one person creating the lone person.

The phase we are in now, that lone player may basically try to convince someone to switch partners so their partner is eliminated instead of them.

Each phase so far only one person gets eliminated. Then the next phase two people are gonna be eliminated.

If I have time I'll try and read about 10-15 pages a day till im caught up. I think I've grasped how this works.

Again, just set up spec, nothing alignment indictive.

So from what I can gather

Scum eliminated Bells partner

My gut reaction is that bell is town here because of if scum, we'll be able to see the theatre of scum having to dump their partner and trade for bell to become a SvS pair.

I dont see a scum player risking themselves like that on day 1 if I'm honest. I love this set up already.

Alrighty enough speculation imma go read some shit

This is more set up spec, only thing alignment indictive is maybe forming a townread on Bell; however again it's set up spec and I'd actually see that more as scummy than townie focusing on mechanics instead of a players reads. Easier to logic a read than explain why you feel a certain way.

Overall I don't get why I should feel townie when my analysis of myself I'd say is more of a scummy start.

So Mala, if you could help elaborate on your thought process there, it would help me feel more comfortable about you.

[Ginngie]

Honestly maybe we just quarantine me/Ydrasse and make us policyleave if we ever get to ELO, two birds one stone.

LMFAOOOOOOOOO No this is fucking funny Prism's first post talks about mafia theory and using two birds and one stone and my first post is the exact same thing

So, it kills two birds with one stone

[Ginngie]

I overall had a decently good feeling about Prism.

As for the setup spec; Id think if you were scum you wouldn't be so open about the spec in the thread unless you have partners that are mia or just as confused

idk its a gut feeling ++ the read i had on prism

So is this a belief that I personally wouldn't share it?

Do you have a belief that mafia in general wouldn't openly try to solve using mechanics?

[Ginngie]

@Mala:

I gotta admit I find it way more townie that you openly accept what seems like a contradiction. You said you literally nailed scum because they used set up spec.

Scum!mala can go hey I literally did this last game and nailed scum, so i'm gonna push this player because if it works why try something different.

Town!mala admits the contradiction and instead townread a player for it.

Do you agree that scum you would have an easier time just pushing the player doing set up spec like I mentioned?

Also Do you agree that it's more townie to trust your gut even if evidence is potentially pointing otherwise?

Like my townlean stems from the fact that you're actively working things out compared to your previous experience instead of going the lazy route and falling back on said experience

[Ginngie]

Before I ask further questions with you Mala I would like you to talk to Dunn about your read from Prism. Ya'll have more knowledge of how Prism interacted with you than I do. So I'll focus on catching up for a while.

[Ginngie]

Okay quick note idk wtf Andantes deal is but I think its gamethrowing that they want to leave the game as soon as possible. I really dont get where that mentality comes from either alignment.

[Ginngie]

I really like your enchanct case. Both in it being a compelling argument, while not one that I think you would make as scum.

In an unexpected turn of events, I think Dunn is town.

I've been saying this since the beginning!

[Ginngie]

the new prism came into the PT telling me how to look less scummy... but that they think I'm town.... that is a mafia slot!!!!

Yeah I dont want town eliminated so if I have a townread, I'm going to bloody advocate that you act in a way to not get eliminated. Not that hard of a concept.

[Ginngie]

Would it be mean to say that it bolsters my towncred that Andante scumreads me

I'm sorry but at the end of the day it's kinda funny reading their interactions this game. To be so confidently wrong and have that confidence be unwavering. Gonna pissed with the fact that I townread it because town are bullheaded dullards.

[Ginngie]

Btw if it's possible for Andante just demand to leave and I get auto eliminated, I'd rather Bell just propose to Andante this phase, I get eliminated, and game moves on.

Only reason I'd recommend the auto elimination(if that's how that works) is due to the fact that I wouldn't trust Andante with a 10 foot pole in the final dance.

So like legit, I want it discussed if Andante forces our pair to leave, why it wouldn't be more logical to just eliminate me. Spares one town slot at least compared to wasting two slots.

[Ginngie]

oh hey i got questions for you, not sure if they're answered yet but I have these on my notepad.

If you ar town, why not just use this to pressure and see what information you could've gotten. Even if you don't believe it and love Noraa to bits, just pretend? It's not going to decide how the day ends anyway.

I have no idea why you'd try to defuse the situation and it annoys me to no end.

fucking preach, I do like myko basically holding my same viewpoint, can't do much with just agreeing with a player tho.

+Ask Myko why they wanted a bell wagon when majority opinion at the time was reading town!bell++Also post 131 by Luke stating that they never played together makes Mykos post really weird. I get trying to meta read but not having one game together makes the interaction not make sense anymore. Dont think 135 was a satifisying answer to Luke about the post.

[Ginngie]

Also I know it's my own slot but Prism is fucking funny idc what you say

Don't really see the issue. Classic "Why get in the way?" reaction to Bell, naive and doesn't know the Lovecraftian cosmic horror level of spam that these specific two players will throw up if left unchecked.

Reminds me of when I would get into spats with Alisae when I first started playing the game. Bloody insane.

[Ginngie]

For transparency I told Andante in chat rn to talk to Bell to try and eliminate me this phase. They have an opportunity to eliminate me today, so like why not try for it lol

[Ginngie]

It's weird on the inside as well. Still tho, if you think about it. Andante is doing the newbie play of being so confident in a read they're willing to literally die themselves in order to get their scumread dead.

I know the best course of action is to actually get Andante to get Bell to propose because that further sorts the Bell slot. Also creates more discussion because now people have to convince Bell to not choose me or such; thus more reads are generated. So yeah, I encourage Andante to try their hardest to eliminate me; because now it forces everyone to actively solve our 3 slots in question.

[Ginngie]

Why sacrifice self if you know you are scum

no matter what it's dumb to sacrifice yourself. it's not AI.

Also, let me be clear, I'm not advocating for my own death, I just want Andante to push me more. I'm confident enough where even if Andante pushes me it's not going to be the nail in the coffin of my slot. I just know that pushing me will generate reads for everyone. More talking means more solving.

Remember how i said I want my scumreads to talk to me? Everyone reads those interactions and even makes posts about them.


@Myko So far I'm only on datsi's beginning posts at 227 and I'll share what I have so far. So I probably haven't seen most discussion yet. Also do you mean to say you have meta on others but others wont have meta on you?

Spoiler: catching up

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

Gotta level with ya, I don't particularly enjoy hampering discussion. Talking is the only way to win the game.

I do get the sentiment but still I would rather not discourage it.

If you ar town, why not just use this to pressure and see what information you could've gotten. Even if you don't believe it and love Noraa to bits, just pretend? It's not going to decide how the day ends anyway.

I have no idea why you'd try to defuse the situation and it annoys me to no end.

fucking preach, I do like myko basically holding my same viewpoint, can't do much with just agreeing with a player tho.

Just as a heads up, I am actively trying to bring down the site wide perception of me being super high energy all of the time. Because, it is pretty not fun when I am town in a low energy irl day, and then everyone decides that low energy luke = scum luke, and so then low energy irl luke feels pressured to amp it up to not eat a miselim.

Take from that what you will, but I am aware that that might lead to me eating some miselims before people buy that I am changing my town playstyle for my own benefit.

AtE but I feel this pain. I remember stopping because it got to the point where oh ginngies posting she's town and oh they're not posting she's scum. Whats the point if you're just gonna be slotted based on activity. Ignore this post for the game, just a general gripe I have with peeople who read based on activity.

127 gives me flashbacks to the last game i've seen someone say "i'm purposefully trying to change my meta" and then they flipped scum, but we'll see

I do have to admit I myself have done this as scum and confbias tells me it's always been the case. Yes this somewhat contradicts what I said about AtE with Luke but still, it's mainly understanding Datsi's take here.

[Ginngie]

Okay idk if this makes sense and is kinda game related but not really, do you find it refreshing playing with a bunch of people, who for the most part haven't played with before? I can't meta anyone here if I'm honest except maybe Dunn but it sounds foolish to try and meta dunn anyway.

[Ginngie]

After first ten pages of catch up this is where I'm at:

Town: Dunn, Andante, Mala
Not town: Everyone else

dunn because I said so, Andante I've stated clearly and Mala is more townlean but townlean isn't scum so.

[Ginngie]

Why sacrifice self if you know you are scum

Indeed, but acting like you are ready for that...
... Hold the fuck up.

what are you holding?

[Ginngie]

Im curious, do you scumread me because I'm advocating for my elimination? Does this also extend to Andante for wanting the same thing?

If you believe me to be scum, and Andante town, yet both slots advocate for their elimination, how would discern the two from one slot being town and the other slot being scum?


Honestly I actually dont know what your read is on Andante.

Mafia nightkill Andante, for my amusement!

Andante is mafia who didn't want to nk self

These posts are separated by 14 hours and Andante posted during that but truly you didn't give an explanation as to why.

At first you state that Andante is town because you believe Andante should be killed. Then your only real change of stance is the 2nd post.

What I noticed is that between the first post you expressed thinking Andante was town, Luke and Mala expressed scum reads, and your next post was expressing a scumread. What changed your mind about Andante? It just looks like you were sheeping the towns opinions to me.

[Ginngie]

Okay idk if this makes sense and is kinda game related but not really, do you find it refreshing playing with a bunch of people, who for the most part haven't played with before? I can't meta anyone here if I'm honest except maybe Dunn but it sounds foolish to try and meta dunn anyway.

I never did meta all that much. I got "in tune" with a few select people? Where their thoughts made sense and but it stopped being that way if they were scum. I joined at the end of where you could consider MS to be small, but I read a lot of those games, I think from this game MS kind of feels small again? Where it becomes that everybody kind of knows everybody because you keep playing the same people. Or maybe people happened to join this game with lots of people they like. So clearly I'm a bit strange in how I can't tell Bell is town, or Enchant is going to leave anyway, or that Noraa tends to be a dominant voice? So I have some catching up to do in that sense.

But otherwise, coming back nothing much has changed really. It's still the same game, It seems like people still hunt by similar tells. I think I might be standing out somewhat but I was always a bit of an agent of chaos in my games, so idk if it's that or that I'm oldfashioned. Thankfully Andante did some of the chaotic stuff day one, so I didn't have to

It's fun playing with some new people and figuring out how they go about the game. And it's somewhat fun to relearn the (forum) game.

I stopped playing meta because whats funny is when I play with mastina, she's the opposite alignment I end up reading her as. Almost a 100% accuracy of me reading her incorrectly. I'd literally go hey if I townread mastina, you shouldn't.

I will say I'm seeing that like every few years there's a new pocket of players that all play and get to know each other well. I think enough time has passed where I'm starting to see who the new consistent players are and how they're interacting with each other. I will say it's starting to make me feel old seeing join dates of last year and I've been playing since a decade ago. What i personally like is that coming back, I don't really yell or curse at players anymore. Going for more of a nacho route where I try to remain calm and advocate for talking through and through. I will say I do like your style, like this game i've decided to encourage my pair to try and eliminate me; which, ngl, is a new play for me and kinda went fuck it lets see how it plays out. Also 100% honesty, I kinda tailor my play based on the mod and idk, I hosted Pooky for one game and this kinda play is what I feel like what Pooky would want in his game so I'm going for it.

[Ginngie]

I'm so damn good at pagetops

Also Enchant, repeating back what I said doesn't really help me sort you. I'm asking about your read on Andante and how that developed during the posts I quoted.

[Ginngie]

You doesh't advocate for my elim, you only supporting what is done by someone else.

This would be true if I saw Dunns case, then said yeah I agree with this, and just said enchants scum.

Instead, at least to me, I've brought up original questioning and it's not even really a case. It's a bloody question.

Like I'm not really advocating for anyones elimination(well the Andante thing but I explained that) yet because I've barely sorted anyone. I'm literally trying to sort you so excuse me for not rushing into things.

P-Edit: In the 5 times you mentioned Andante, two were in jest, the rest is saying to eliminate her or a blank scumread. I've read your ISO and I couldn't find anything explaining this read.

[Ginngie]

ya know hilariously enough my advice to Andante to not be seen as scummy is to calm down with the !!! and all caps because people generally think it's fake or ignore it.

P-edit: If you know the account yeah you can talk about it, cuz I reminisce when I created the Democracy hydra of like 20+ players. The only thing I dont discuss is why I made a new account, everything else is fine. Yeah it may have been a large. My favorite was joining Recks game as a replacement during the night phase, deadline got extended 24 hours, read the whole game, formed some reads, and then ended up being the mafia night kill. I died in a game where I didn't even post and IMO never felt more confident in my townplay since. Really tho, I think we both have seen each others names floated around, but not really interacted with; so it's dope to be able to play with you.

If I'm honest I don't really have a good read on you but I feel like it would be dope to have a PT with you if we get to choose that every cycle.

[Ginngie]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

I know that this is a situation where you hold sole power, but I don't think that a single person is currently advocating for that to be your choice lol

I mean, how does Bell hold sole power? the person bell wants has to accept. and it really looks like bell is only going "who do I stand the best chance at survivng long game with" cause notice how Bell wants nothing to do with me cause all I've done is "IM LEAVING!!!" bell is trying to find the least likely person to leave tbh... I think I'm good with bell not taking anyone, cause all this mocking me? like bell isn't taking this seriously, I was asking a genuine question, like, I strongly TR ceph, I'd love to know why bell is CONVINCED ceph scum, I think fire never leaves the dance, which is why Bell is trying to go there, and notice how bell isn't actually trying to help sort any of enchant dunn luke mala.. instead "oh yeah I'll take fire!" like what... it was initially "I'll take prism" like, I think I'm pretty obviously town here, bell never once said he wanted to pair with me - and I don't want that to happen, I won't accept now.

umm Bell isn't giving me good vibes, the mocking me isn't helping at all, like, Bell is basically if you take all the reasons I SR fire AND MORE... so yeah I'm good with Bell leaving the dance tbh

fighting the urge to townread shitposts

[Ginngie]

how is that the only important thing if i am allegedly being waited on?

Am I not imporant to you

[Ginngie]

Btw if it's possible for Andante just demand to leave and I get auto eliminated, I'd rather Bell just propose to Andante this phase, I get eliminated, and game moves on.

Only reason I'd recommend the auto elimination(if that's how that works) is due to the fact that I wouldn't trust Andante with a 10 foot pole in the final dance.

So like legit, I want it discussed if Andante forces our pair to leave, why it wouldn't be more logical to just eliminate me. Spares one town slot at least compared to wasting two slots.

Why not even suggest that you get a partner instead? I get that your goal is to get andante to push you but that doesnt solve your problem of being tied to her

This set up is hella foreign to me, it hasn't been a day yet so I'm really improvising as I go. Also I mean, i don't really mind being paired with Andante? So truly I'm okay with being paired with Andante and also okay with being pushed by them. It is what it is.

[Ginngie]

I'm fine with bell making their own choice without outside influence.

Easy to say when no one in their right mind would take your partner!

Okay ngl it's really funny to me finding out the partners while reading comments like this

[Ginngie]

it really looks like bell is only going "who do I stand the best chance at survivng long game with" cause notice how Bell wants nothing to do with me cause all I've done is "IM LEAVING!!!" bell is trying to find the least likely person to leave tbh...

Like, why not have a strong read and just go for it, instead of this game of "I'll say I'll partner with everyone... except andante... test the waters...." everything about this feels like scum, and I'm confused why I'm the only one who sees it

I also don't think that this has happened He named exactly 4 names he was considering (out of 10 options), and they correlate to his stated scum reads.

Like, his start of phase suggestions were :Prism, Lukewarm, fire, Or datasi, which kills Andante, Mala, Ceph, or Dunn respectively.

Which of those, the only one I do not see him scum reading prior is Mala.

Andante. Pretend that you think that Bell is town for a minute. He said that he town reads Prism, and that he scum reads you (and he had both of those reads before he was given the ability to choose, and LONG before you started saying you wanted to leave) - Why in the world would you expect him to then be open to pairing with you.

Like, looking at this part of your argument feels like you are saying "BELL IS REFUSING TO KILL HIS TOWN READ, AND REFUSING TO PAIR UP WITH HIS SCUM READ. SO SCUMMMMYYYY"

For post game bragging I'm gonna throw in a guess of Bell, Myko, Enchant

[Ginngie]

ok, has bell ever talked about wanting to yeet prism/ginnie?

Bell mentioned considering pairing with Prism, which would kill Andante. But that is when Andante started saying that she wanted to just leave with Prism, and then Bell kinda walked away from the convo because (from what I gathered) he wanted to see if andante would follow through.

For the record I'd reject Bell's proposal and keep Andante. I haven't yet read a reason to townread Bell other than my guess at set up spec, which doesn't even hold much water after I thought about it. I'm winning this bloody game with Andante and thats a promise.

[Ginngie]

236 I found myself nodding along to everything.

hyperaware that venturing into Handwritten Notes Territory is extremely fraught, but is this a real note. this is a thing one says to others as a manner of explanation in my mind

I think it may be being tired after work but what on earth does this mean.

My interpretation is that you townread Luke for saying they agree with another player? As you see this as them explaining their thought process?

I was actually going to talk about how I don't like it because their reason for townreading datisi at that point was quite literally saying "felt town" and I agree with them.

I feel like I'm missing something here

[Ginngie]

Okay so I think a better question is, and tell me to just shut up and read the game if already answered, how does this affect your read on the slot.

Do I have this correct that you it was slightly scummy to write the post in the way Luke did?

I just don't think I'm getting what you're trying to point out about the post.

[Ginngie]

Btw, as of this moment, what are your stances on Bell and Fireisred?

I'm just interested in a drawing on a napkin read of what you think about them

[Ginngie]

Did Dunnstral grow fangs.

Dunnstral is a vampire for the record

[Ginngie]

uhhh haven't forgotten what I said I'd do here, I'm certain Ginngie is town, there is NO freaking way Ginngie is mafia, I'm using them to help me figure out what my actual reads even are cause here we have town, mafia, and the town I think are mafia, so I'm just figuring out stuff with Ginngie. I'm glad I wasn't able to leave last night, I have some high hopes. maf. we are on to you!!!!

I don't want to believe this is real.

Well not gonna liek you pairing with myko has changed a lot for our perspective. We were sorting Ceph/Fire/Bell as a trio and studying their interactions in the PT. At first we butted heads a bit but came to an understanding and actually find that we are working rather well together. Which hey, is a damn good thing, reads are supposed to change. I'm still going to work on the interactions, but admittedly it's moot now that you picked Myko. Well, maybe. I took a nap before finishing my investigation and now we are here.

[Ginngie]

i have no clue what that means in response, gotta be honest with ya

[Ginngie]

Spoiler: The machinations of my mind are an enigma

[Ginngie]

Btw it would help me out immensely if you could explain why you choose myko over other people you were considering. I know you said you thought scum were between myko and enchant, but was there more to it than just that.

[Ginngie]

our PT is a masonry, so like dont really care

[Ginngie]

Btw it would help me out immensely if you could explain why you choose myko over other people you were considering. I know you said you thought scum were between myko and enchant, but was there more to it than just that.

I'm picking up Cephs habits, that could use a question mark at the end

[Ginngie]

you literally have two masons, what more could you want to rest easier lmfao

[Ginngie]

I will recommend getting the new watermelon scent glade released for spring, it's a lovely calming scent.

Also some positive affirmation ASMR really puts my mind at ease

[Ginngie]

come on shitpost a lil ;~;

[Ginngie]

I suck at reading ISOs so I'm still crawling through the pages of the game reading. Could you help me real quick talk about what I have down as a townread on fire, and a scumread on Ceph? Before I ask further questions, is what I stated for those two reads accurate?

P-edit damn lemme post lmao this was for bell

[Ginngie]

That's the longest form of a yes I've seen so far.

I'm assuming you sensed my next question that, if those reads were true, why not pair with Fire, a townread, to elimination Ceph, a scumread?

[Ginngie]

LFASDFMADS;FOASDFASDFASDFD BRUH WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IMAGE

[Ginngie]

like i said I'm the fucking queen of pagetops

[Ginngie]

I’m pretty sure I’ve explained both of those reads and the reasons haven’t changed much since then. Red keeps making townie noises, their perspective seems to show a desire to sort and a level of anxiety about who is and isn’t scum. Red keeps posting out of nowhere in the absolute darkest of night.

Cephrir: they’re good scum, they’ve…largely interpreted my characterization of them as a personal/play style attack. It reads as a smear campaign. But I’m too afraid to say it while possibly being wrong. Because that might actually piss them off and I don’t want to piss off people. I don’t see extrodinary posting from them. I see them posting relatable statements and being nice to those that are nice to them.

This was confusing at first cuz I was reading Red as ceph cuz pumbaa

Alrighty I gotta level with ya, at certain point you kinda have to, to say it kinda harshly, say fuck your feelings to your scumreads. You're not gonna win any games if you find keeping the peace more important than pushing your reads.

like would you not be more upset that you actually nailed Ceph scum, had the opportunity to eliminate them this phase, and you didn't?

[Ginngie]

I will recommend getting the new watermelon scent glade released for spring, it's a lovely calming scent.

Also some positive affirmation ASMR really puts my mind at ease

prefer lavender as it calms my anxious soul

Btw if you do candles, get a wooden wick, it's a game changer

LFASDFMADS;FOASDFASDFASDFD BRUH WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IMAGE

Googled "anime girl pushing fingers together"

Added the words, uploaded to imgur, brought it here.

And I did it all for you. You're welcome

do you wanna be masons >_<

[Ginngie]

That's the longest form of a yes I've seen so far.

I'm assuming you sensed my next question that, if those reads were true, why not pair with Fire, a townread, to elimination Ceph, a scumread?

Pretty sure I already posted that fire and Luke pushing at me for suggesting it turned me off that road.
I thought I was pretty blatantly just going around pressuring people to sort them though. And I’m pretty sure I even out right said it once or twice. it was cephrir’s turn to get pushed.

Gotta level with ya thank you for your patience cuz I'm on page 16 and haven't read anything past that through the point I joined. So this is shit most likely missed as well.

So Fireisred was against you wanting to pair with them? Luke also didn't want you pairing, so you decided against it? I mean if FireisRed was against it then yeah its real bloody difficult to push the Ceph elim.

I was secretly miffed they didn’t let it breath to see how they’d respond. But meh, I do that too half the time. I only sometimes have self-discipline and left town reads swim on their own. Not to mention I don’t think it effected cephrir’s approach much. It might have been interesting to see cephrir’s response if they both started pressuring him too. But…now I’m just filling out words for words sake.

Hinata

oh so here you're wishing that they backed off like how I waited for Mala to chat with Dunn? Btw these words aren't just for words sake, I haven't been that confident in your slot, but I do like these posts you're doing. They feel like you're giving your stream of consciousness which is something I believe is hard to fake as scum.

[Ginngie]

Luke whos town

[Ginngie]

Btw Bell thanks for chatting with me, really helped me clear things up and I've come out of it thinking you're more town than not.

Luke on the other hand. Now I need to talk with them.

[Ginngie]

anything you'd like to share with the class?

[Ginngie]

I'm shivering with anticip...

[Ginngie]

Ya know imma be real upset if Luke doesn't talk to me about his townreads after our convesation was hey you should be paranoid of your partner and joining me shitposting. I also better be one of their townreads because Luke stated they thought I was scum or scummy. Well really, this is all they've said about me.

I am not liking gins or andantes posting this phase.

It's actually kinda funny, scumreads both and then tells scumreads they should be more paranoid of each other.

I know there's more behind this but I need Luke to chat with me so I can figure out whats going on here

P-edit: Sleep is sleep, just a game. I do want a live 1 on 1 chat tho at some point, do you have a time you could commit too in the next couple of days?

[Ginngie]

do you wanna be masons >_<

Yay!

I'm a mason now!

HARD CLAIM MASONS WITH BELL

club is full sorry mala, you're still amazing tho

[Ginngie]

do you wanna be masons >_<

Yay!

I'm a mason now!

HARD CLAIM MASONS WITH BELL

club is full sorry mala, you're still amazing tho

I'll go cry at work, that's ok.

I once was so upset at work that I stayed in the walk-in for around 40 minutes.

for those not in the know, restaurant work can be brutal. Walk-in fridges usually are around 35 to 40 degrees F or 0-2 degree C. I was so upset I just stayed in there after I got into a spat with my manager and then when I left they were like where did you go I thought you quit and I said I was in the walk in the whole time. He was like oh shit and it was like an unspoken moment of yeah things were bad for me and eased up a lot.

[Ginngie]

It's okay Mala, I've stopped being masons with gin, and I will be masons with you now

[Ginngie]

i've grown tired of christmas music but oh my god does this song just sooth the soul

[Ginngie]

yes Andante did post their townread and thoughts on Ceph. Haven't really had a back and forth about it because I was focusing more on Bell today than anything else really.

[Ginngie]

Alrighty I'm disappearing for the next 13 hours I'm binging the punisher

[Ginngie]

Sweet, voting.

vote Fireisred

And I want to hijack the discussion as well: I would like everybody to post the amount of posts by either player in their neighbourhood discusses reads on the game. I think it's only somewhat likely that scum paired up together, so I think the results should be mostly trustworthy.

Gotta be honest, I’m not really seeing scum have the confidence here to just literally state the plan after getting rid of Enchant. Bell and Enchant could be a town town situation but Myko’s lack of care of the fact and goes right to solving is a good look IMO

[Ginngie]

Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since I joined

[Ginngie]

I would love to focus on Luke and Mala today, Luke I’m not confident in at all and Mala i feel I’m turning a blind eye because i think they’re cool. I gotta admit that so i can hold myself more accountable and focus on solving their slot more

[Ginngie]

Easy for me to read, it's my first time

[Ginngie]

imma keep this here at least until I've had my chat with you. I feel you being rather evasive and have committed to a lot of fence sitting. I'm not feeling any conviction from when I'm reading your posts.

VOTE: Luke

[Ginngie]

Luke who you voting for right now?

I wanna see a hard stance using

Code: Select all

[v][/v]

[Ginngie]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

This is such a hand wave. Can you break it down more?

[Ginngie]

yeah my votes never leaving this phase I can tell

[Ginngie]

Go ahead and spend 6 hours coming up with who you'd vote for instead of doing something that would actually make you accountable for your actions

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Gin+Andante

Immediate OMGUS.

[Ginngie]

Okay. Summarize thoughts

I don't want Bell to propose to: Dunn, Datisi, ceph, Fire, Myko, Enchant

That leaves: me, gin, andante

Hmmm. Maybe I am my own top choice now?

Need sleep, this is as far as I'm getting tonight

Why Myko here (which would kill Enchant)?

Mainly because I am suspicious of both, and they have been my top choice for us to vote out in the next phase, so swapping Bell into the pair would mess that up.

Myko would not be the worst choice, I quite liked your case on Enchant.

meh, I take that back, this refutes my point

[Ginngie]

Okay but fucking why tho?

[Ginngie]

~reasons~ homie you're gonna need them

[Ginngie]

you ain't town for being able to just say you're suspicious of a couple slots. There is no substance here.

[Ginngie]

Show the fucking class what you mean. Since the moment I've joined, the only read on my slot or Andante was that you're suspicious. You haven't critiqued either of us thoroughly and you're going the route of snarky comments instead of actually trying to prove your reads. I really think you're just faking these reads and you've decided to push these two slots regardless of what happens in this game so you have some sense of direction. Otherwise you'd be lost as to what to post about.

[Ginngie]

VOTE: andante

going from "my partner is scum!! i will attempt to leave!!" during the time THEY WERE TOLD they cannot leave, into "i really tr my partner now!!!" is lmao

Compare our hood activity to everyone elses. We are hyperactive in our chat and solving slots.

Like were working on interactions involving Bell/Ceph/Fire

For example I was laying the foundation for our discussions with this wall:

Spoiler:

So essentially what I gather is that Bell is predetermined to pair with fire to get rid of Ceph.

I'll try to read more into Bell/Fire/Ceph interactions but I think there could be a case of Bell and Fire agreeing to pair after night killing Yda and eliminating Ceph.

Yeah I really like this theory. I haven't been a fan of what I read so far (pages 1-13, post when i joined to present). Mainly a lot of jokes and brushing things off and not truly sorting. Like I feel like Bell could use the banter to hide in plain sight posting. In which, i mean they post while a bunch of townie people are talking, and by association, you think of those townie posts, and that they were there as well, so you think town. Deep dive tho there isn't really content.

One thing I'll be looking for is to see if Bell is even trying to convince Fire to trade partners. Because that's also another crucial part of the game. Fire has to agree that Ceph is scum. So that also means I need to check Fire's read on Ceph and see how Fire reacts to Bells advances.

heyo I don't hold anything against ya. I like the enthusiasm. Plus you think differently than I do, which is great because I'm seeing connections that I otherwise don't really consider. Like it's really helpful because now discussing these reads with you, i can get a grasp on the Ceph, Fire, Bell slots. Everyone else except Datisi i've interacted with so this is like the last step for me to get really comfortable with who and how the game is being played out.

P-edit: Honestly i think Imma try to compile a list of Bells reads and then a change in bells reads as of this point. I'm curious if the reads are static. Like I dont have evidence for it, but like if I find scumread on Fire, but then after the mafia NK, they flip that to get rid of Ceph, that's gonna be hella sus.

Btw my reads lists are real simple, Town vs not town

Town: Dunn, Andante, mala
Not Town: everyone else

Adding in recent interactions after my initial posting.

Well shit I dont really feel confident adding anyone else.

Not town: Bell, Myko, Enchant, fire, Ceph, datisi, Luke

That's 7 people. 4 townies.

Enchant, actually I may have figured out how to read Enchant. I recently hosted a game with Enchant as scum. They said this game that their playstyle is anti-town, however all their decisions they made were done for towns benefit. Like there was an XP system and revive mechanics and he chose to, as bloody scum, give XP to town and revive town. So in a weird way, Enchant plays as the opposite of their own alignment mechanically at least. Weird theory, I will have to try and study that more.

Bell, well i gotta be honest with ya, I'm not comfortable having Bell leave the not town category until further investigation. As stated.

Myko, and this is a weird one but I'd throw them in town but very hesitantly. My talks about old school shit was to see how they're treating the game. Like seeing if this is a veteran just chilling and having fun and what that means for their alignment. Also I like the fact that they called out Bell for silencing discussion.

Fire/Ceph aint leaving with Bell cuz I have all 3 of them under intense investigation if that makes sense.

Datisi i'd throw into town because my gut likes their post break downs. They haven't posted much and have read about 4-5 posts of theirs.

Luke feels off but thats a gut I can't explain yet. I just so far bloody hate their use of the word vague to describe most of their reads in the beginning of the game. Like it really feels like fence sitting so Luke can shift with the wind if that makes sense.

So

Town: Dunn, Andante, Mala, Myko, Datisi
Not Town: Bell, Ceph, Fire, Enchant, Luke.

I'm not confident enough to break this down further with what info I have.

Andante simply doesn't see this level of effort coming from scum and imo was the basis for their transition.

Because you are now the only pair where I am suspicious of both slots.

uh what? this is the first I'm hearing you're suspicious of both of us

.... Are either one of you reading my posts?

Fire is my strongest town read atm. Phone posting, but I am roughly at

Fire,
Nora, Ydra, Mala,
Andante, Ceph
-----
Datisi
----

Prism

, one of (myko, enchant), but never both
Dunn

Andantes recent posts are bad.

I am not liking gins or andantes posting this phase.

Okay. Summarize thoughts

I don't want Bell to propose to: Dunn, Datisi, ceph, Fire, Myko, Enchant

That leaves: me, gin, andante

why do I even try...

Hello Andante. I am suspicions of the Prism slot

You quoted literally all the posts where you say you scumread our slots. yet not a single one of those actually describes why that is. Again proving my point you just picked slots to push and you're going to just scumread them because you need to have reads

[Ginngie]

Datisi scumclaimed because they said they would rather focus on exams than play mafia

[Ginngie]

I don't know why I have found this interaction as frustrating as I have, but I have. Gonna stop responding the Gin for a bit

It's hard being called out I get it. Like I said scum can't have a conversation live. This is perfect example of it.

[Ginngie]

I will never leave Ginngie, they can leave me, but the ammount of effort they're putting in? I can't do that to them

awwwwww, this made my day

[Ginngie]

Ya know we both agree so I might as well share it, Andante and I think Datisi is chainsawing Andante in order to protect Luke and focus the attention on Andante, over Luke who isn't generating any real reads or justifications.

Saying your reads haven't changed from the beginning is scummy as hell. Things change and so should reads. Or at least, you should be able to continue to support your reads with the new content that is generated.

It's the constantly trying to look as if you're figuring the game out that is hard to fake, which I believe Luke is struggling to do.

[Ginngie]

you lost me, can you explain?

[Ginngie]

I gotta go to work anyway i can wait :p

Also like; idk I dont really think it holds weight. Sure if I had the unique ability to pick who my partner(okay well Prism did, but I didn't) was and only we had a PT sure, you could make cases about pocketing. But being real, everyone playing right now has a PT, everyone can choose to talk or not in those PTs. Like it's not really that damning if two players decide to work together lmao

[Ginngie]

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

I’m driving but red light posting on my way to work. Off the top of my head it was posted in PT and I’ll do time stamps if that helps you.

Also I really would hate to bring out meta but i swear to fucking god if we are going eith this bullshit that using PTs is only for scum. I’m posting my mastina and myself PT from one of my OG games and I’m literally posting the jjh927 and YUME warrior hood from the game i just hosted where it was just two town talking. God this is fucking asinine

[Ginngie]

Havent read anything new but i would like to apologize for starting to curse heavily. I really don’t want to continue playing that way.

[Ginngie]

Okay but what is a good time to you? What parts of mafia do you enjoy the most? Which parts make you happiest and which parts make you saddest?

Reading on my break so will only shitpost, the most enjoyable was when i played cocaine mafia and whoever hammered stole the cocaine of the player eliminated.

Chesskid multiple times tried to coordinate a hammer to get the cocaine but i snuck a hammer vote in 3 days in a row. It was trolling to the highest degree a mod told me to chill out for antagonizing chess kid so much.

That for me, was peak. Also saddest was a game i won Kodak moment for solving the game day 1 and we lost due to Ari scumclaiming as town and that made Fate so paranoid he shot Ari instead of the scum who he nailed since day 1.

[Ginngie]

I vividly remember going to get pizza with my family and i was sitting in the passenger seat with such anger and sadness. I learned the stages of grief that day

[Ginngie]

V/LA for the next 36 hours.

i have a civ marathon tournament and I need to sleep for that, and I'll need more sleep after it's over.

I'm most likely playing the Cree but might actually sneak a Mapuche game. Meta rn is to go for golden age pen brush and stroke, so so Mapuche's +10 combat against golden age civs would prove to be a huge boon.

[Ginngie]

Cree OP won my first game, 2nd game was spain and I lost because I had two settlers die, one from barbarian capture, another from a tile getting flooded and oneshotting the unit; so I just called for an irrelevant vote. Last game I was Russia going for culture as it was a team game; but we had to concede to nukes.

I'm exhausted so imma catch up on sleep.

Would like to state how I feel which is that I felt like I was right for the wrong reasons twice. Right that the Luke/Mala pair had scum in it, wrong to think so hardly it was Luke. Also rn I feel I was right that Datisi attacked Andante and I to save a scumbuddy, but wrong in the sense Datisi was protecting Mala, and not Luke. Basically treated Luke as a proxy for an elimination war.

[Ginngie]

Oh fuck off

[Ginngie]

It would have been one less player i have to read and mafia took that from me.

[Ginngie]

I will say Andantes vote has made me lose a lot of confidence.

It feels like faking emotions. Like this is my first game playing dance but even i figured out what actions are viable during whichever game phase.

[Ginngie]

I’m chill with Datisi Dunn or myself and Andante tbh

Also @Bell: if you mean how i post here, it’s a style i adopted during 2016-2018 where treating the thread as Twitter became super common. There was a geriatrics playerlist that formed to have games that banned that style lol

[Ginngie]

Ginngie - Andante

Mykonian - Bell

Cephrir - fireisredsir

Dunnstral - Datisi


I gotta math real quick

3 town/town pairs, 1 scum/scum pair

6v2 This phase
4v2 Final dance
2v2 GG


2 town/town pair, 2 town/scum pair
6v2 This phase

1 town/town pair, 2 town/scum pair
4v2 Final dance
elim town/town pair GG
[line]100[/100]
4v2, Final dance
elim town/scum pair

1 town/town pair, 1 town/scum pair
3v1 Final dance

no matter what we gained the ability to eliminate a pair today and try again.

Based on the numbers I feel like I have no clue what to derive from all that.


Well, one thought is that a scum/scum pair is widely townread and not worrying at all and think they can coast to victory.

The town/scum pair, I feel like that leans more into the four players in those pairs reads are wildly varied.

So with no kill, I'd point to one of the pairs that have no votes on them at all being a scum/scum pair because they'll just see town eliminate each other.

Actually no, no kill points moreso to it being a 2 town/scum pairs.

The math if there was a scum/scum pair and they killed

6v2 Till death phase
5v2 proposal
[IF SCUM/SCUM PAIR] lolreject town if they try to elim your scum partner
4v2 final dance

---

6v2 Till death
5v2 proposal
[IF SCUM/TOWN PAIR] proposed to town and scumbuddy ejected
5v1 dance
3v1 Final dance


If there was a scum scum pair, they could easily get rid of an entire voting phase to win the game. Just auto reject the proposal and you're in final dance(for clarity an auto reject is equivalent to town eliminating someone in a town/town pairing).

Idc who you are, no amount of wifom is worth trying to fight an entire extra voting phase.

So I think we're looking at two town/scum pairs because what we're seeing is the only real optimal play.

I gotta be legit if it's 2x Town/Town and 2 Town/Scum

Ginngie-Andante Town/Town
Ceph-Fire Town/Town
Bell-Myko Town/Scum
Dunn-Datisi Town/Scum

Now I just need to prove these reads.

[Ginngie]

Ya know, myko, we could come to an agreement, we both think Datisi is scum. There has to be at least one town in Datisi, Myko, and Ginngie.

So, really, even if we both suspect each other, we also share the ability to vote Datisi. Sure we could argue from each other's POV that it was a bus, but at the end of the day, mafia is eliminated regardless.

IDK if I'm making it clear, but like, from your POV, if I'm scum and Datisi scum, I'm simply bussing. From my POV, if Datisi scum and you're scum, you're simply bussing.

At the end of the day anyone can claim that you and I are bussing, but in both scenarios datisi is scum. So it's like, hey for this phase let scum bus scum if that's your opinion.

[Ginngie]

Well i'd rather that happen this phase than in final dance

like i said I dont trust you with a 10 foot pole in the final dance

It's the literal voting when you can't, leaving when you cant, being a veteran of dance games and yet you do those actions repeatedly.

It leaves a very sour taste and makes me believe you would mess up the final dance by having your emotions manipulated.

Seriously you're worse than Enchant when it comes to yolo leaving and to think I'd risk pissing you off as mafia after Datisi could make a grandslam case of me pocketing you is absurd.

If this was a Town/Scum pairing Andante, and I've gotten you to say that you think we'll win this together and shit; why would I poke the bloody bear, especially after(if I was scum) losing a scumbuddy.

So just bloody cool it.

P-edit: This auto leaving bullshit is exactly what I mean.

[Ginngie]

if for whatever reason datisi and dunn are t/t I’m auto leaving

like i said I dont trust you with a 10 foot pole in the final dance

[Ginngie]

maf had a chance to kill, they didn’t. maf is comfortable with the way this is going, NO ONE has voiced suspicion of ceph or fire recently, there’s a scum in therr and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was ceph. I want them out

You've towncased Ceph and scumread Fire the entire game

yet here you switched the reads

why

[Ginngie]

You've 1) Literally provided a towncase on Ceph and 2) In our PT and in game you've explicitly stated that you've been scumreading Fire the entire game.

So yeah I'm curious why

[Ginngie]

i am surprised that andante is not interacting with my recent content. idk what i expected but it wasn't nothing

yeah, I just saw it, and was like, mmk sure let me find my "case" in the PT but like, me outing it is just gonna be met with "THAT'S NOT A CASE!!!"

So to basically summarize what I said in the PT yesterday:

Ceph's recent "I don't trust myself with my andante read, I give that to fire" I can definitely see town!Ceph being like that, cause he just pocketed me in CONTROL, where he was maf, I was town, and what he did was just talk me into my wrong reads, and out of my right reads, I've been absent from too much of this game though to really test that here, so that's not a super reliable way to read him.

if you pull up the Cephrir ISO, at the beginning, like 272-280ish he had a LOT of back to back posts, and I usually see town do that. When I questioned someone about their reads, Cephrir called something out, (Ginngie quoted part of it) I really like that, felt like Ceph was actively reading/engaging and trying to find maf.

My top SRs are myko/Luke/Datisi right now.. ama lets go, what do you want to know?

Why are you not currently voting for any of these names?

What happened to your fire scum read?

it's still there, I'm choosing to ignore it though, the pt has a lot of me quoting stuff fire says and telling ginggie I SR fire.... fun facts!!!

This is your main thread ISOs last mentions of each player

Your reasoning to vote Ceph is because Ceph/Fire are widely townread.

your reads there shouldn't have changed, as thinking the Ceph/Fire pair haven't had enough attention means you would still focus on Fire.

Yet you've switched those reads without explanation

[Ginngie]

I'm leaving near day 5 of 7 if we haven't come to a decision elsewhere. I'm not gonna deny the ability for others to vote and do other things in the meantime.

[Ginngie]

Till I leave the game: (expired on 2022-04-30 15:00:00)

Vote us out if I dont adhere to this

[Ginngie]

Since I’m dying today I’m town and it won’t be WIFOM

I explicitly made sure to never arouse suspicion about Andante until after the mafia kill occurred.

Well it didn’t, but you’ll notice Andante pulled their voting stunt in Datisi during the kill phase and almost immediately after the lack of flip, I brought up Andante. Self preservation that I’ve decided to throw out the window.

[Ginngie]

It’s mafia

The whole thing is a mind game lmfao

[Ginngie]

umm she's trying to get ahead of my push on her. she went very silent in the PT, and that did not go un noticed (PT is cancelled now, I'm not using it) but like, this goes back to me just being an easy push. Like, why does Ginngie even sr me?? cause I'm not playing by an agenda??? right...

you two are tied together. what does her scumreading you accomplish if she's scum?

this is 100% mind games, so if she’s gonna keep saying “I’m leaving!!!” instead of actually leaving?? yeah… mind games, like I don’t actually believe she is leaving, but if she’s going to do nothing but tunnel me for 4 IRL days… might as well just leave cause I don’t wanna deal with it

Also lmfao now you know how i felt when i joined the game and all you said was you were gonna leave leave leave cuz you thought i was mafia and nothing was gonna change your mind.

Feels a lot different when the shoe is on the other foot

[Ginngie]

I'll be honest if that doesn't prove my alignment i dont know what else will

[Ginngie]

100% truthfully no gimmicks I think Bell/Myko is the other T/T pair. Like, our slot vanishes right, Bell/Myko are just town here and you dont even have to think anymore cuz the final two pairs are T/S.

Idk for me I think these are gonna be my final reads. Like I honestly dont care who is actually scum between the two pairings, since they're both gonna die anyway. So the easier method of solving is to find the two T/T pairs and PoE.

[Ginngie]

reading through page 93 made me think andante/ginnie are s/s both threatening to leave the game

i know it's likely not the case but

I literally put a countdown for me to leave or have the entire town vote us out. Yeah that's a move S/S pair would make. Come on mate, you have to be joking. We got a free mislim and I'm using it tactically.

Andante and myself are town, work from there and tell me who you think is the final T/T pair?

Legit finding the last T/T pair solves the game, scumreads aren't really worth pursuing in this style of game. of course thats my pov and I prefer to townhunt but still.

[Ginngie]

reading through page 93 made me think andante/ginnie are s/s both threatening to leave the game

i know it's likely not the case but

I literally put a countdown for me to leave or have the entire town vote us out. Yeah that's a move S/S pair would make. Come on mate, you have to be joking. We got a free mislim and I'm using it tactically.

Andante and myself are town, work from there and tell me who you think is the final T/T pair?

Legit finding the last T/T pair solves the game, scumreads aren't really worth pursuing in this style of game. of course thats my pov and I prefer to townhunt but still.

ur driving me up the wall with this "i'm leaving my partner even though i think they're town" thing

I think I might be standing out somewhat but I was always a bit of an agent of chaos in my games

If you scumread me mate, you should be happy

If you dont, you should be focusing on eliminating someone else before the deadline.

Choice is yours, I've made mine

[Ginngie]

but like,,, for that very reason please stay and convince me my andante read is wrong instead of whatever this is

Well, it's because we're masons.

[Ginngie]

Okay non gimmicky post

Look how often their reads change. Town doesn't have a fucking clue and does it look like Andante has any clue as to what is going on?

Scum inherently knows they need to try to be coherent and make sense because for some reason, people scumread what they dont understand. i dont need to understand Andante's reads, I just need to know that they're not being faked. Like myself, when Mala called me townie, I had this wave of ick flow through my body, and it kept getting stronger and stronger and I literally felt disgusted by Mala saying that. So I investigated. My gut there was right, but after conversing, even I townbinned mala. Reads change, it can happen sporadically and sometimes you could have said nothing at all but you get that little itch in the back of your mind, it grows and then your whole read changes on a dime. When you're actively solving the game, you're not confident in any of your reads and all that jazz. Which if you look at Andante, that's what they've been doing. Constantly changing reads, constantly absorbing new information and showing confidence only to doubt themselves and rearrange their thinking all over again.

She's bloody town and I have to be honest, there's so much talk about her being pocketed by me, but I sometimes wonder if I've pocketed myself onto her as in the PT, I felt the need to apologize for saying she was toxic for wanting to leave to eliminate me. She was so upset that I said she was gamethrowing for wanting to leave and I honestly felt really bad about it. So I apologized and decided to double down on my town read and do my best to work with her as best as I could. Multiple times hearing her want to give up made me want to encourage her and I told her hey we got this, we'll pull through this and win together. Like, I'm at a point where I've wanted to be able to work with Andante so bad that I've honestly blinded myself to her alignment being anything but town because I can't accept it being not true. It just can't be. AtE and all but I'd be fuckin heartbroken if Andante is scum here. So maybe at the end of the day, my read on Andante being town is that I can't stomach having that read be wrong and my heart screams that she's town because we've gone on an emotional roller coaster together in the span of like one week.

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Ceph/Fire

[Ginngie]

yeah there's a literal one minute difference in between the posts and the response contains 400 characters and the average poster types around 200 characters a minute. It's physically impossible to have done so unless you think Andante could have read all that and crafted a response that quickly.

[Ginngie]

I asked Datisi who they thought was mafia with Malakittens. They said they don't know and maybe they will check her iso, and check my progression.

Maybe they can do that today

do you actually care about me doing this

I'm interested in you having any kind of stance

[Ginngie]

oh shit ya know thats a fair fucking point, no one is really questioning Dunn/Bells alignments ever since I joined the game.

So like, those would be great kills.

[Ginngie]

UGH

Hey dunn you wanna leave lmfao

[Ginngie]

Post was more for shits than anything tbh

I'm up for voting Datisi.


Oh btw I know it's a PT post but another case for Andante!town is they literally celebrated Ceph voting for our pair as if that was a scumclaim.

I think Andante would join us on a Datisi flip but she currently townreads him due to his recent posting.

I think Myko showed interest but when I brought this up they swerved out of that conversation when it came down to brass tacks

Spoiler: Convo with Myko

there's 4 pairs left and 2 scum. there must be at least 2 pairs that are fully town. i think there's a lot of reasons why scum might not want to shoot their own partners (if they aren't paired together). the question is, why would scum choose not to shoot in one of the fully town pairs?

the two possible reasons i can think of:
- those pairs are likely to get elimmed
- among those players, there's too much risk that whoever gets left behind will ask to pair with someone who is paired with scum

the second possibility imo points to datisi or maybe myko as scum. dunn is the most townread player and likely would leave datisi if given the chance. bell is also pretty townread and i think might leave myko depending on who asks?

I think the first one doesn't work.

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, they gave us an extra full elim (instead of just a new pair forming) right? So if they had something lined up, they could just shoot into the other pair. My first guess would've been the second, yes. But it's very wifom.


I am happy to be convinced about Dat scum.

I don't think it's Bell. I think if you bus mala you do it for points, and I could see her push on you as distancing, but that seems like effort from a lurking position. Odds are, you are on the right side too. Bell for one assures me that you always play that way. I think Andante is quite clearly being buddied by mala and I don't see that as a scum scum interaction, nor really the post that was quoted with Prism. I also think Andante started the game playing their town meta, they just really aren't with it now. I'd say Dunn is pretty town in general anyway.

That leaves three players. Datisi who I don't really know all that much about after all, Cephrir who I liked how they talked, except for when Bell suggested he'd pair with you, Fire, and we saw a bit of AtE thrown around.

admittedly the Mala interaction with Prism is weak and I have my worries about Ginngie at times.

Ya know, myko, we could come to an agreement, we both think Datisi is scum. There has to be at least one town in Datisi, Myko, and Ginngie.

So, really, even if we both suspect each other, we also share the ability to vote Datisi. Sure we could argue from each other's POV that it was a bus, but at the end of the day, mafia is eliminated regardless.

IDK if I'm making it clear, but like, from your POV, if I'm scum and Datisi scum, I'm simply bussing. From my POV, if Datisi scum and you're scum, you're simply bussing.

At the end of the day anyone can claim that you and I are bussing, but in both scenarios datisi is scum. So it's like, hey for this phase let scum bus scum if that's your opinion.

we could also wait for Cephrir to vote first and say that's bussing.

So what I'm gathering is that everyone is town except for Datisi, fire, Ginngie. I bring up actually voting Datisi and then you get the last post where he dodged committing to any actions by making a post in jest. I think calling out the bussing left the only option to deflect and let the conversation die by not feeding it; or else they would actually have to go through with the bussing.

Dunn I can see joining the voting

Fire/Ginn/Bell/Ceph/(Maybe:Dunn)/(Maybe:Andante)

I mean 4 out of 7 scumread Datisi for sure and you got two maybes

Dunn with this:

At the start of my neighborhood after the end of day 1 I say that I want to vote Andante, Enchant, and Malakittens.

Datisi says they also suspect Andante and ask about my read Enchant.

I think Dunn can peace together Datisi pushed two town here in order to avoid Mala interactions

So lets go 5 out of 7 think datisi is scum

Andante, well this read has been flipping back and forth but using the law of Schrodinger's scown-read, while I believe they currently stated Datisi is a townread, the read is also a scumread and can be convinced to join.

So lets go 6 out of 7 think Datisi is scum

Finally Myko, who has showed interest in Datisi being scum with what I just found here:

You, PoE (same) and I'm inclined to believe Dunns scumread on you.

So that's 7 out of 7 players thinking Datisi is scum

I literally dont see town coming to a stronger collective agreement on a players slot than what we have on Datisi.

VOTE: Datisi

[Ginngie]

Fire join the wagon homie

only need a couple more

[Ginngie]

Well the whole thing Datisi wrote is lies

One, he calls me subtle. ME

Secondly he’s saying i think the pair is Andante/Datisi which is wrong as well.

The whole thing is completely wrong so i can’t even entertain it

[Ginngie]

Secondly he’s saying i think the pair is Andante/Datisi which is wrong as well.

so you did not actually read anything what i was saying and want to force the easy flip through. cool.

[Ginngie]

I just think it makes too much sense that both Datisi and Myko got paired with two highly townread players vs everyone else being scummy pairs. Like in reality, if those two don’t kill their own partners, that means that they had to kill a slot people weren’t sure about, and also, I’m betting on the fact that that solo townie will look at the 3 remaining pairs and think, well I’d rather partner with Dunn/Bell and elim Datisi/Myko, with about a 1/3 chance they actually swap in the final T/T pair.

That’s way too risky so just no kill because it’s safer to push two scummy players AND, because of your partners towncred, people view you, by association, to be town. This one is more just subliminal messaging kinda thing. There’s guilt by association but flip that on it’s head with innocent by association. Like it’s perfect to manipulate town because it protects you through statistics. What’s easier to sell? Convincing someone to vote a obv!town and scummy pair, or a kinda scummy and highly scummy pair. From a single players POV, you’d rather bet on eliminating the two scummy people in the pair because from your POV, you’re more like to actually vote scum out.

[Ginngie]

Also take it as a compliment to you Datisi, i believe you’re smart enough to have figured this out. I think you figured out the conundrum of killing anyone and our agent of chaos Myko was like hey let’s no kill, everyone expects a kill so let’s do something different

[Ginngie]

I'm talking about the gamestate during till death due as part, not about in general

[Ginngie]

How does a no kill protect Mykonian? Bell has shown no special interest in getting rid of Mykonian. In contrast, they have shown an interest in getting rid of Datisi, so killing me should be pretty safe for Mykonian. That point is moot if Datisi is scum, I guess, but it still means that Mykonian is not in any particular danger.

My thought was that bell, being obvtown, is one of the people you'd expect scum to want to kill

I think that it can be inferred from my posting that I was likely to have paired with Mykonian if Bell died. But who knows.

Okay this doesn't benefit scumteam Datisi/Myko tho. They wouldn't want to be in a situation where they have to elim each other.

[Ginngie]

I’m in death tunnel mode so imma wait a day to talk to you because i feel like you could be making a point but I’m too blinded to care enough to figure it out

[Ginngie]

This entire phase it's like you've cared more about giving off the preception of peacemaker and getting people to interact, but really you're not doing much of anything.

I've read your ISO through this day phase and it's all deflection and hey lets be civil. You encourage discussion but refuse to participate in it, from my POV at least.

So if you want to talk so much, do a readlist breakdown, put down a vote like you've been excited to do the past couple phases but has been noticeably missing this phase.

[Ginngie]

huh?

[Ginngie]

Am I wrong to state that your reads do a 180 almost every day?

I'm maf, I'm town, I'm maf, I'm town, now I'm maf again

like it's not hard to guess that your read would change sooner or later in supporting it.

[Ginngie]

Also I'm starting to realize how you literally scumread anyone that goes against what you think. So i dont fucking care if you call me maf, that's only because I'm not just sheeping your reads.

[Ginngie]

We should pause the game until they come in and answer that question.

[Ginngie]

Also Myko in regards to sorting you, I've realized my main issue is I'm doing pre-flip associatives, and I think that's what you meant by talking about how Ceph could have done the same thing you did.

You can be convinced of Datisi scum, at this point there is more utility in discussing why you'd find datisi town rather than scum; at this point throwing in a scumread just ends the day, but if you're leaning town, it's gonna be more important to clarify that with others as they're E-2, and E-1 with fire's imaginary vote.

[Ginngie]

I’ll be honest i really don’t care what Andante does and would be glad to write this off as a partner who threw

Either leave in your next post or shut up

[Ginngie]

To answer why i don’t give a fuck about Ceph

There are two scum

Sure self could be scum day you lock that read in

There’s still a second mafia person!

Maybe, just fucking maybe, realize that there are two mafia players left. I’m focusing on one, and can find the other the next day.

JUST BECAUSE IM PUSHING ONE PERSON, DOESNT MEAN EVERYONE ELSE IS DECLARED TOWN

[Ginngie]

Ya know biggest critique i have of you is how much you base reads off people giving you what you want.

I agreed with your reads at one point and you said i was so town it felt like we were a hydra.

The moment i stopped agreeing with you, you turn around and throw these scumreads out.

I’ve felt like I’ve been playing with a partner who is a toddler throwing tantrums when they don’t get what they want

[Ginngie]

Honestly what else is there to talk about today; like I genuinely dont know what we're waiting on.

[Ginngie]

scumslip lol

[Ginngie]

I'm so fucking good at this game

[Ginngie]

OP hasn't been updated yet so

Ginngie - Andante
Bell - Mykonian
Cephrir - fireisredsir


Here's the crew

[Ginngie]

We'll we just gonna have to see who Myko kills.

[Ginngie]

Also I know it's a day but I'm so bloody impatient, can we get a fast night if the final scum agrees to that.

Like we dont have any abilities so pretty please

[Ginngie]

Honestly we are at a pretty good point I think.

Let's see here

5v1 with no kill
3v1, goes into final dance
Game

5v1 with kill
4v1, a new hope
3v1 Final dance

I'm not gonna lie this is gonna be a hard game for scum to win.

I know momentum doesn't exist but like I'm thinking we got it to clench the game.

[Ginngie]

Hey Andante, if you still think I'm scum for forcing through back to back wagons that eliminated scum, and antagonized my partner constantly to try and leave the game, then by all means go ahead and leave.

But if you town, realize that you and I have won because you and I can afford to eliminate the two final pairings without consequence. We've won the game, we're just on autopilot now.

I told you we'd win

[Ginngie]

I have a big ego after scum gets flipped, I do thank everyone because my specality, imo, is figuring out the towns reads and corralling them towards actual scum instead of mislims. So like, it's possible for me to death tunnel push these eliminations through because ya'll have done so well to get these reads out. Like I couldn't have crafted that long post about garnering the votes for a Datisi wagon without ya'll figuring shit out too. So go fucking team

[Ginngie]

So like we get 200 posts per phase soooooooo

I'm down for some thread games while we wait.

ALSO, I just love sharing music and I know this is something I do when modding, but like what if we just shared some songs given a theme?

Like first do your most romanatic song you can think of
Then a silly romance song
Then a break up song
and a song just generally themed around love could be about a crush or your partner or breaking up, like a freestyle round

[Ginngie]

I'm here for you bb dont worry

ALSO I've decided that I'm gonna play Mad Libs

I got 26 words, so i'll fill in 1 and the other 5 will be filled in by each player left.

Cephrir: I need adjective, adjective, part of the body, noun, animal
Bell: I need verb, adverb, noun, adjective, noun
Mykonian: I need verb, noun, part of the body, noun, adverb
Fireisredsir: I need verb, verb, exclamation, past tense verb, past tense verb
Andante: I need a number, a number, verb, verb, verb.

I'll do one adverb to finish it off

[Ginngie]

Spoiler: I dedicated this one to my current partner of 4 years

This song makes me cry every time i sing it

[Ginngie]

Datisi scumclaimed because they said they would rather focus on exams than play mafia

I was right lmfao

[Ginngie]

For me the game is easy, like no matter what there isn’t a world where Andante is scum here

Her reads may be erratic but you can still track the progression. Now i also get access to over 100 PT posts, so i get an even deeper look, but still. At this point scum!Andante deserves the win if they’re scum because i just can’t ever see it for the life of me.

[Ginngie]

Like if no kill just lim Bell/Myko and final dance Ceph/Fire and gg

If a new hope, if Bell dies, reject Myko, and final dance elim Fire/Ceph

If a new hope Andante or myself dies, we swap out Myko, and final dance elim Fire/Ceph

If a new hope Ceph or Fire dies, they swap with Myko, if fail, elim Bell/(Ceph or Fire)

Idk like this game is solved and I can openly post this without worry im that confident game is solved

[Ginngie]

Mate, you don’t really get a choice if Bell yeeted you out lol

Also I hold my read on Andante over anyone else so for me it’s GG. I don’t even have to scumread you, it’s just simple PoE

[Ginngie]

Well of course you’re opposed too it, but your sacrifice is a risk I’m willing to take :3

[Ginngie]

Can you really say you're obv town tho

Bell doesn't TR you, neither does Ceph, Fire thinks it's you or Ceph,

That's 3 people scumreading you so far

Then there's me as well so we got 4 people scumreading you

That leaves Andante, who currently is null to TR, so that's a good indication that you're actually scum

So truthfully, majority of the game scumreads you, you're legit the most logical choice to start off with the PoE.

[Ginngie]

I pretty much agree with:

Fire, Ginggie, Bell town.
And then there's the rest. Unfortunate.

uhhhhhhhhh show me your name lol

[Ginngie]

Mykonian: I need verb, noun, part of the body, noun, adverb

Also you forgot to do this

[Ginngie]

What are you the fun police?

[Ginngie]

But please don't quote me.

[Ginngie]

My humour is too broken not to do that

[Ginngie]

Anyone else want to take a crack at the associatives on Datisi?/mala?

I'll take a crack it

So far this is what I've come up with who could possibly be Datisi/Mala partners

Spoiler:

Ginngie - Andante
Cephrir - fireisredsir
Bell - Mykonian

[Ginngie]

I think Datisi is good enough to not leave easy associative tells and I tried the ISO and confirmed that

[Ginngie]

Well shit lets see if I can get a hat trick

[Ginngie]

Bell, Cephrir, Myko, Fire

As long as I pair with a town, then that's GG cuz the other pair can just leave and auto elims the last scum.

I'm shaking idk why but like I have a 3/4 chance of picking town to win the game, but fuck me it's gonna be embarrassing if I partner with the final scum to lose this shit.

[Ginngie]

What perplexes me is that Andante was my biggest worry because of the fact that people could still push Andante to lim our pairing. So like, truthfully, Andante dying was a blessing to cure my worries of going so hard in the paint with Andante and them flipping scum.

Strange to say maybe but i also feel like I owe them to win it.

[Ginngie]

Fuck because like for me my answer is Bell immediately.

My reads have been pretty bang on when I go with my initial gut reactions

Read one post of Dunns and was able to declare him town, Read 5 posts of Andante and was able to call them town, Read 2 posts of Mala and nailed scum, I fucked up Luke and Enchant sure, then still nailed Datisi off off initial readings I believe as well.


I'm at a point where this is a personal Elimination/Lose situation even tho it technically isn't. Now quite simply, I've been nailing a good portion of reads, and my set up spec has been on point. With that, I trust the most, after Andante, to be town is Bell. The only reason I'm doubting this is sheer paranoia but i preach that paranoia is what causes you to lose the final eliminations. So if my only reason is to scumread bell is because of paranoia, then that's no reason at all.

At this point I feel like I KNOW it's Cephrir; but being greedy and trying to go for the hero play will leave a debate for Fire/Myko if I'm wrong. That gives too much leeway for scum to comeback and pull something off.

Fuck I'm sorry but like my rankings is Bell, Fire, Myko, Ceph in level of trust on reading them as town.

I know Bell is town, it solves Myko, and then fire/Ceph solves each other final dance if it isn't Myko.


I feel like a dick kind of because I really just want to propose now and it's only been 30 minutes.

[Ginngie]

outta respect imma give 24 hours of discussion about Bell because I'm pretty much locked in on proposing to Bell.

[Ginngie]

There is no way anyone finds this game relaxing holy shit.

I'm so stressed staring at text on a screen lmao

[Ginngie]

Im just gonna go listen to positive affirmations

[Ginngie]

I just dont see scum!bell killing Andante, when one, you could paranoia Andante into leaving the game, and two, their one confident scum read was Andante, so like while yeah wifom, i dont see scum!Bell making the game that much harder on themselves.

Idk Bell seems like the obvious choice. No one scumreads Bell, and NK analysis doesn't point to scum!bell either. My set up spec I think shows townpoints here as well.

I dont have any evidence to refute this townread and that's all I need.

[Ginngie]

lmfao Myko ain't gonna like this

[Ginngie]

My only guess is that it's a hail mary to confuse town

No kill was unexpected, so was the Andante kill

Purpose was to stoke paranoia and question everything. My experience tells me to ignore it tho

[Ginngie]

I’m very confused.

This means the kill worked

[Ginngie]

My vote is on cephrir scum, but I can see polite myko scum.

Fire this is where I'm at,

I propose to Bell, Myko flips

if Final dance, fire leaves and we flip ceph scum.

I'm personally ready to go

[Ginngie]

Propose to Bell

[Ginngie]

Myko would say something about not entertaining it and Ceph would say get shrekt or somethhin

[Ginngie]

Fire do ya thang

[Ginngie]

It's Cephy

fucking lol at Andante and I bickering over two scum wagons lmfao

[Ginngie]

the mod probably lurking for the leave lets not slowroll the ending, we could get endgame tonight and i dont see myself getting sleep waiting for the results

[Ginngie]

It'll be okay fire

Spoiler: Fire to Ceph rn

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Cephrir

[Ginngie]

classic is better

[Ginngie]

I don't believe so no, but for fuckery sake I voted Cephrir

[Ginngie]

UNVOTE:

If anyone deserves hammer it's me

I mean it was my plan after all

[Ginngie]

[Ginngie]

I'll be good to time it at intervals of 5 minutes

[Ginngie]

At yourtime:20 we triple hammer

[Ginngie]

The quadbarreled hammer at yourtime:20 come on Ceph it'll be legendary

[Ginngie]

Alrighty lets do this thing

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Cephrir

[Ginngie]

That was a fun game guys, enjoyed this being the final group too

[Ginngie]

I fucking bet Pooky asleep lmao

[Ginngie]

Very well played game IMO if so.

All the night actions felt like the worst possible choices to make for scum you, so pulling off a win doing that is well played

[Ginngie]

Also fuck me if i seriously picked the scum out of 4 bloody people

[Ginngie]

That for me, was peak. Also saddest was a game i won Kodak moment for solving the game day 1 and we lost due to Ari scumclaiming as town and that made Fate so paranoid he shot Ari instead of the scum who he nailed since day 1.

Did you fucking use this against me?

[Ginngie]

Best fucking replacement ever lmfao