Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Datisi]

just 9 pages while i was asleep? could've been worse i guess

i quickly skimmed the game, mostly to see how prism/andante came to be because that is somehow not a pair i was expecting to happen, let alone early, and alright, *i guess*.

looking at the list of available gentlemen, and thinking of the strategy i very successfully employed during the last dance game, i think my current preferred dance partner would be bell. i can elaborate on this later, and maybe my preference will change once i actually read the game, but we'll see.

will be catching up within the next hour or so

[Datisi]

i prooobably shouldn't write an essay on two posts from page 1 when it will be irrelevant extremely soon (if not immediately) *but* if this were a normal game and i were here from the start, i would've voted andante over 12 + 15 - townreading ydrasse for that intro feels weird, but whatever, but something about repeating the same message twice in the span of a minute and a half, coupled with the fact that she had to point out it was page 1 in a "look at me i am sure solving" way, makes me ping scum on andante, like scum!andante is aware town!her posts a metric shit-ton and she's committed to posting the same amount even though she doesn't have shit new to say

granted, it has been a while since i've seen andante play without knowing her alignment so maybe i'm making stuff up but here we are

I could also be very spicy and ask Enchant but i feel like Ydra and I never get along when we're both town so what better pt than that? worst case scenario i get pocketed by scum ydra but shrug whatever it'll be an experience at least >:3

what's your plan for using and/or not using the hood?

also i would like to know what's the history between ydrasse/noraa but gut tells me noraa is town???

actually, @noraa, if you want to dance with ydrasse so bad, why didn't you propose to her yet? also why the andante townread?

townreading dunn too, surprisingly enough

my coffee is gone, i'm gonna go eat, be back at some point today

[Datisi]

i have returned

i have an urge to ask "why?" to like the majority of reads said on pg 4 because i am not sure i get almost any of them

117 is weird from andante bc why *would* scum quickly bs a read on someone if they know the next question is gonna be "why are they scum" and if you're not prepared for that, tough shit - like i don't think luke's post is scum!indicative, but it's definitely not as townie as andante makes it out to be

127 gives me flashbacks to the last game i've seen someone say "i'm purposefully trying to change my meta" and then they flipped scum, but we'll see

i was gonna write how i don't get 146 because i don't feel like scum's instinct is to shut an argument down (especially since it seemed like noraa and andante were gonna go at it, and if they do then scum!bell can much more easily lurk through a part of the game), and while i still don't really get that train of thought, but:

bell, did you have any sorta thoughts on noraa from 35 to 56? like, going from "noraa isn't arguing???" to "stop arguing!" without like, any other accompanying thought on noraa?

but the other is like apparently so towny that the dance is happening.

??? who said that that was townie

i am Concerned about prism's 184 because bell's thoughts on that pairing are about the exact same thoughts that i had, so the fact that prism is using that to attempt to get bell left out is ??? to me - tinfoil part of my brain says scum!prism would love to get a head start on getting town!bell out of the game before he manages to townspew himself

and i actually like ydrasse calling out 189

[Datisi]

ok, am caught up

i consciously townread dunn and ydrasse, and i subconsciously townread noraa, jury's still out on a few other reads and i'll let you know when they return

don't have townpings on a lot of people which is making me see more red than there is, pls step it up whoever is town k thx bye

[Datisi]

which is why noraa’s opener is dubious to me because it feels like i was identified as someone who needs to be handled for them personally and for the benefit of a team. i also think they would not play the long game with me if they were mafia and would just leave pretty fast (whether or not that’d be a good strategy is meh but i think that impulsiveness fits)

i don't get how this follows from the first paragraph

like, if you're good at identifying zir as mafia, how is zir angling to dance with you like, a problem (correct me if any of those pronouns are incorrectly used btw)

also uh, mafia leaving the dance voluntarily is? good?

[Datisi]

multiple times this game already, i have thought "why don't any of these ladies want to dance with me" to remember that i am, in fact, also a lady

[Datisi]

i remember zir saying ze wouldn't actually mind catching scum!you either, though i do think it came a bit later so, okay, Fair Enough

i will recheck that sequence of events at some point if i deem it necessary

[Datisi]

Dat's has come in confident. But he tries as either alignment.

what does this mean
do you have actual thoughts on anyone
give me your three strongest reads in any direction stat

[Datisi]

i have seen multiple gentlemen say they townread me but zero (0) proposals to me and that is a disgrace

on a slightly less jokey note, noraa, why so much talk about who you wanna pair with but no proposals being sent out

[Datisi]

i townread ydrasse

[Datisi]

going to fake a scumslip

i will not notice it

[Datisi]

datisi thinks im maf this game? oof that’s a little wild… the stuff from me you “hated” were legit reads??

well yeah sure ok but they didn't seem like that to me so y'know what are we gonna do about that

[Datisi]

bell, is lazy-scum-you more likely to just lurk or to post a "lol idk i don't really have reads" post? asking for a friend

[Datisi]

"i'm purposefully trying to change my meta"

i agree with this actually but also want to state that i am also changing my meta this game lmfao. i dont think i'll be unreadable by meta but i am trying something different that i will tell my pt buddy if they are someone with a lot of meta on me.

i will talk a lot in pt. currently my top choices are you and fireisredsir. I really want someone who will talk to me a lot. Hopefully it will help me sort them and the rest of the game and if not, at least it'll be fun

there is nothing wrong with changing your playstyle (hell, i have changed it many times) but when someone upfront goes "btw guys jsyk i will be changing my playstyle this game" it makes me wary

my pt was by far the longest last dance game and i plan to post a metric shitton in this one as well

anyway, talking about 258 - how come you're townreading me? i know you explained the read there, but from what i remember, you are one of the only two people on this site who scumread me literally every single game i play

so like, i know the games we played in together before are a bit old and whatnot, but if there's any meta component to your read of me i would want to hear it

[Datisi]

Umm only cause I’m doubting my sr on you Noraa, I’m not 100% sold on Datisi town right now, like datisi played a dance game with scum me recently, and I’m not 100% sold this is how town!him approaches this game with me… something felt off so I would wait to propose there… Ydra + You sounds like it could be good if yall both want that, i’m not trying to shut you down!!! but like, I tr nothing about datisi rn, and i just wanna caution you…

lol I sr 2 ladies… SURELY 3rd is a gentleman

do you have any actual issues on my read on you or is this the Standard Andante OMGUS Read(tm)? like, if i'm wrong on you i'd like to know sooner rather than later, and just reading "i don't know if he approaches me like that as town"

(which, the post makes it sound like you townread me but aren't 100%, which i know you're not but it's pretty funny)

[Datisi]

ok, i only now realize that the post i thought was noraa saying "i wouldn't mind catching scum!ydra" was zir actually saying "i don't think i'd be able to catch scum!ydra"

ydra goes slightly up in my book, noraa slightly down, my reading comprehension goes straight into the trash

[Datisi]

Anyone meta reading me, i'll say this again: its not gonna work.
On ydrasse, maybe i'd try to appeal to her but i qould never suggestdancing with her. She replaced into two of my acum elos and made me lose both. Theres no reason to place my entire endgame on ydras sr on me

actually maybe not? if the above is true, then i'm not sure why scum!noraa wouldn't use the "yeah i can't actually read ydra lol" as a way to get AWAY from pairing with her, and not TOWARDS pairing zirself with her

[Datisi]

i guess the only other problem about that i have is the fact that noraa never actually offered to dance with ydrasse, which makes zir actions be slightly more likely to actually be scummy? i'll think about it at some point maybe

it would also maybe make sense if ydra/noraa are scum together and there's someone else in this game who's aware of their history but that's a problem for a different time

[Datisi]

acknowledged

i would like to get a better read on both you and the rest of the gentlemen before making the choice

[Datisi]

i mean if ydra was like "ok i'll dance with you", there would be absolutely no way for me to get out of it after gushing about wanting to dance with her for like the entire rvs.

this makes sense

i guess there's a gut part of me that's going "someone saying they wanna dance but no proposal??? scum???" even when the latter doesn't logically follow from the former

[Datisi]

plus datisi, if im scum, isnt it best if ur in a pt with me? if i ever seem transparently red, you can just send the post and whisk us out of the game. easy.

well, yes... with the very important asterisk of having to actually be able to read you correctly

[Datisi]

anyway, talking about 258 - how come you're townreading me? i know you explained the read there, but from what i remember, you are one of the only two people on this site who scumread me literally every single game i play

so like, i know the games we played in together before are a bit old and whatnot, but if there's any meta component to your read of me i would want to hear it

i would like a response to this

[Datisi]

our first game you were a vig and you spent the whole game wanting to shoot me

and there was also that chain of command game where you said you had a vibe (which was apparently very very important) and i was town

granted yeah they were a while ago i guess

[Datisi]

Anyone meta reading me, i'll say this again: its not gonna work.
On ydrasse, maybe i'd try to appeal to her but i qould never suggestdancing with her. She replaced into two of my acum elos and made me lose both. Theres no reason to place my entire endgame on ydras sr on me

actually maybe not? if the above is true, then i'm not sure why scum!noraa wouldn't use the "yeah i can't actually read ydra lol" as a way to get AWAY from pairing with her, and not TOWARDS pairing zirself with her

It's literally not true because ze tries to beat specific players. It doesn't matter if it might not work. "I wouldn't try to dance with her" is a lie. Ze should get left.

this is one of those moments where i wish i wasn't utterly incapable of forming second-hand metareads because i haven't seen noraa do this, and it doesn't make sense to me that someone would do this in a dance game (except maybe me but i am a special brand of a petty asshole), BUT this seems like a fairly important piece of meta that i should at least try to pay attention to

i think i know which game of forest fire it is and i'll take a look at it through the course of irl today, any other games were ze did this?

[Datisi]

and I thought maybe tethering myself to fire could help keep him from getting miselimed later.

???

you are aware you're not like, a very popular townread this game, right?

[Datisi]

Also Cephrir is like definitely town here

andante not responding to my 355 was fully expected but still majorly disappointing.

also why is cephrir town?

[Datisi]

everyone TRing Dunn is a bad look on it's own. In what game has town dunn ever been townread this way? like if the playlist doesnt look like Cabd ffery peta LLD etc, it doesn't really happen. Obviously this is a very 1 dimension way to explain this read, but explaining it further is hard and I do want to wait for more dunn content to get the most out of the ISO.

is this the reason planned out that you said not to ask about in 247?

[Datisi]

Do you fancy being the hammer, Dat?

if you knew a single thing about me, you'd know that the answer to that question is "nope no fucking way get that hammer away from me"

i'm still catching up so excuse dumb questions if it's already been answered, but what's with the "i have no incentive to pair with town" in 492?

[Datisi]

i know that this also might be a fruitless endeavor, but @enchant, how come you did not accept the proposal?

[Datisi]

i feel townpings on malakittens for possibly dumb reasons, we'll see

[Datisi]

So look at enchants iso. It doesn't discuss other players yet. Tiniest bit of judgement with regards to mechanics. But there is no threat of elimination today, no way to force them to open up.

I proposed and in a way forced them to judge me. Not accepting the offer yet is one suggestion of a read enchant may have, though they only suggest my proposal is "fearless" in some way. They didn't say "no".

mmm, do you usually "dance around" (pun intended) other players like this? what i mean, you give off the vibe of wanting to get a better read on enchant and get them to react to something, but at the same time it feels like you're talking

at

them rather than

with

them. in a newer player i'd consider that behaviour flat-out scummy, but 2008 join date is not really that.

[Datisi]

both enchant and myko have no desire to pair with town

sounds like a match to me

[Datisi]

I don't mind scumreading them in a quicktopic either.

there is like, a whole lesson on "but you do understand it's better to pair with townier people if you're town because they have better odds of being town and therefore that's better for the town wincon because fypov you are lessening the odds of towns getting yeeted" here somewhere but idk if it's actually worth getting into right now

[Datisi]

you don't townread any of them, what's the issue

[Datisi]

as much as i didn't like myko's tone around enchant and as much as i feel like their logic is like, not On Point, i feel like the overall mindset comes from town

more specifically the focus on who should or shouldn't be left out feels like a more goal-oriented thing that isn't common to come from scum when there's not that much talk about it in town, and scumreading enchant right into proposing to them is ??? if scum

[Datisi]

why did enchant wait till pressured to accept? like, I'd have completely understood not wanting to pair.. like "I DON'T TR ENCHANT" "ENCHANT DANCE WITH ME" that's just.. if myko is town, myko leaves first chance they get.... so why would enchant want to pair with myko?? makes no sense to me, but then the pressure and enchant is like "i accept" like, what??

does that make enchant scum for you? because accepting a dance with a partner who outright doesn't townread you feels like a very shitty strategy, especially when your game-gender is in the minority

[Datisi]

omg datisi... towny mind meld (:

(:
yessss... townie... i trust you...
(: (: (:

[Datisi]

gay dance game WHEN

[Datisi]

i think myko/enchant being s/s makes even less sense because why??? would they do that? like enchant isn't being townread and myko isn't being townread, so instead of trying to pair with townies so that in the case of one of them getting yeeted, they take a townie down with them, they decide to pair up with each other because ???

can you acknowledge 495?

[Datisi]

i might be talking myself into enchant/myko being t/t and i don't know how i feel about it lmao

[Datisi]

i am open to the idea but i would like to know the logic behind the pairs (other than leaving noraa out)

[Datisi]

dunn and ceph i feel like i've seen things that look Decent enough to not wanna murder either of them at this point in time

noraa i have also seen stuff i liked, but (1) i still have to at least try to check out that meta point that prism was talking about (2) i don't actually want to dance with someone who everyone suspects and who they'll try to yeet out immediately (i did that last dance game, it was painful, but at least i somewhat knew how to read the person)

luke is the scummiest of the bunch to me currently

and before you ask: i said i am open to the idea of dancing with him because i wanna see why prism has made the pairs and because i'm vaguely thinking about pretending to be a good player and reread peeps and maybe form new opinions

[Datisi]

i want to get straight to the point here

why is dunn scum

[Datisi]

Dunn's just trying too hard to be likable. they're trying too hard to be a good townie and town dunn isnt a good townie. town dunn does their own thing and doesnt care what anyone else thinks.

the issue is the scum!dunn that i know of doesn't actually *do* much of anything so this kinda play feels new to me regardless of his alignment, so it's not something that i can straight up scumread just for being as it

are there any specific posts that made you think dunn is trying to be likeable?

[Datisi]

luke is the scummiest of the bunch to me currently

But this definitely makes me feel less inclined to pair with datisi now

if you want to try to sell me on someone else being scum, you are more than welcome to do so!!!

and @noraa thank you, i will read that Soon

[Datisi]

i am also! going to disagree

mostly the reason being that the dunn i know, both town and scum, doesn't really do Much in games and writes much more to-the-point posts

but! if this "energy" is due to this being a dance game, that would make sense why his style is altered and it just doesn't feel ai to me

i'm not satisfied with this and i'm noticing a lot of my reads are ??? right now so i might do some isos after i'm back from my walk, i'll see

[Datisi]

i'm debating whether i should be pretending to care and iso EvEryOnE or do the more realistic thing of just zooming through noraa and dunn and MAYBE lukewarm if mala doesn't insta-accept

[Datisi]

while i was on a walk, it did occur to me how if i accepted noraa, i could potentially do the same neighbourhood strategy i did last dance game, so luke i'd love to know why you oppose that pairing, and if it's anything else than reading the two of us as different alignments

actually you said you were rethinking your scumread of zir so like idk

[Datisi]

I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2

also this isn't true, you were my top scumread from the remaining gents, which is like a third of the game and you're definitely not first on my shitlist

[Datisi]

okay, so i reread the dunnstral iso and it's definitely not as townie as i wanted to think

there are a few posts that i think are good, like calling out the ez bell townreads felt like a mindmeld, and overall explaining reads (which is not something i'm used to seeing from dunn) felt townie because i feel like it shows transparentness that's more likely to come from town

but the thing that's my problem here is that dunn still feels very low impact? like, they're putting in the effort of posting reads and asking questions, but i'm not sure i can actually see the desire to... drive the game in a certain direction, like i'm not sure i see a single question they asked that impacted their reads or made them push somewhere or like, did *anything* in their mind

not the worst iso but i definitely can see this flipping red now

[Datisi]

do noraa and dunn have history and is ze usually able to read them well?

[Datisi]

oh, okay

that makes more sense as to why noraa seems to be that focused on dunn and why ze's picking at the miniscule point in his posting that doesn't seem to even reach my brain

[Datisi]

i have multiple issues with lukewarm's 625

first, the minor nitpick is that the "he said he's gonna do isos which opens him up for doing a new push" is weird because we're deciding who gets left out. i already had the bases down for who of the gents i could push to get left. i don't need to be doing a weird 180 redoing isos announcement for that.

then, the reasons for my 587 bothering him is ???. yeah, i didn't towncase dunn or call him town. because i had already said i liked some of his posts prior to that and because i was responding to noraa's case of him, which i said i was gonna do. why would i be dropping a towncase there?

but probably my biggest problem is the "and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa" part - like, he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

actually, now that i type it out, i do feel like my instinct omgus reaction to the shade of our pair is not as good of a point as i first thought, but calling me scum over saying it's not ai for dunn to be talking the way he is feels bad faith and reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

not reading the pedits

[Datisi]

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance.

this part is true

i have reread the posts you have made that page, and even while KNOWING you were thinking about dats/dunn at the time, i still cannot see how i was supposed to see that from those posts, so

[Datisi]

datisi whcih of me and dunn is more likely scum

dunn

if it wasn't clear, i am leaning towards accepting your proposal, but making decisions in mafia games is scary and i'd rather shitpost a little bit more before actually pulling the trigger

I mean, I openly suggested that you and dunn should be paired if dunn were not killed this day phase.

that's the leftover if you get your pair and if the basically-arranged pair of ceph/fire goes live

which like, i guess shouldn't have been my logic since you weren't assuming ceph/fire for the other scenario, but i don't really think about who other people are reading me as partners with in every post they make, and i agree this line of conversation is not extremely helpful for anyone

[Datisi]

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

like i remember on d1 in guardians, i found some of your posts off because they were pushing logic what was only so slightly wrong and twisted in your favour - i let it go at the time because god knows that being illogical isn't a blanket scumtell but then once you flipped red i looked again and realized i was onto something

and 625 here similarly feels like it's pushing logic that's only slightly wrong but very much serves in your favour (e.g. me not dropping a couter-reason for townreading dunn when i was solely responding to noraa's case on him)

i can go through the guardians to look what this reminded me of if that's needed but like i don't feel like it right now

also i did not remember your partner-read of me/omega from that game at all until you brought it up, and i'm vaguely thinking if that's a cheeky way for trying to divert my attention onto the town-meta you're trying to emulate >_>

[Datisi]

Or am I scum, and Dunn is town, and I am pushing to flip him today, and then literally every singe thing that I said about you being scum becomes completely meaningless because it all hinged on his scum flip, and I even stated that i would town lock you on his flip?

town locking me means absolutely nothing if it opens the avenue to argue that my dance partner is scum and that you want to eliminate zir. scum!you doesn't lose anything there.

[Datisi]

tbh i was moving in a town luke direction but i feel like 657 serves absolutely no purpose other than to get townread and i don't love it

this is something that i agree with

more specifically, now that i'm rereading it after a night of sleep, 657 kind of reminds me of posts i would sometimes make as scum, where i try really hard to play the "free-flowing thoughts" card and write them all out to try to convince people that yes, i indeed have thoughts on the game and look how natural they came to me and there is no way i am scum this game, right guys, right???

also 661 is like another example of the same thing i think, lukewarm trying to fake nuance when i think it's plainly obvious that if you set up to push one person in a pair, it doesn't really matter that you locktowned the other one, you still get to push them by proxy

and his "can i ask what is my master plan" tone in that post is trying to frame it as if i'm talking nonsense and he's clearly townie and there's no agenda there when it's like, obvious what scum!luke agenda would be there

it annoyed me last night but i was about to sleep and didn't feel like getting into it then so i guess here we are.

[Datisi]

lukewarm is like the most transparent town in the world.

sorry what

[Datisi]

so i went to ctrl+f "luke" in noraa's iso because this feels out of the blue, and:

Spoiler:

right now i don't like luke or fire much

in a game sense

I agree with luke. but I have SRed Lukewarm every single game so the SR feels a little iffy. Like I know Lukewarm tends to SR me when I'm town and I tend to SR them too when we're both town. But that SR felt like a weak "replication" of what generally happens
anyways idk im not confident at all and it doesnt matter because lukewarm becomes obvtown with time if town.

lets do a little readslisteroo in no particular order

Town:
Andante
Ydrasse
Datisi

Less certain town:
Bell
Fire

Null:
Myko
Ceph
Mala

Scum:
Lukewarm
Dunnstral

Town:
Andante
Ydrasse
Datisi

Less certain town:
Bell
Fire

Null:
Myko
Ceph
Mala

Scum:
Prism
Lukewarm
Dunnstral

Lukewarm feels very scummy this game argh

everything is so explainy in an un Lukewarm way. i dont really care about their activity like lower activity isnt indicative of anything and lukewarm isnt even lower activity here anyways

ok read breakdown
prism's SR on me is the worst because it's very sudden and doesn't feel genuine. like the thing is this idea of me wanting to beat good players is meh at best in general. on top of that, prism hasn't really played with me much so having that much confidence in a meta tell like that is weird. i liked the intreactions with me re: andante pairing but pairing with andante is still something that just doesn't sit well with me. there's not much other content that can be juiced out of that pairing, but it's just ... a bad feeling. it feels like the exact move an experienced scum player would pull and I cant stop thinking that.

everyone TRing Dunn is a bad look on it's own. In what game has town dunn ever been townread this way? like if the playlist doesnt look like Cabd ffery peta LLD etc, it doesn't really happen. Obviously this is a very 1 dimension way to explain this read, but explaining it further is hard and I do want to wait for more dunn content to get the most out of the ISO.

Lukewarm feels very ... weird tonally. But I think Lukewarm becomes clear with time. So like if it's like day 3 and more than half of the playerlist thinks Lukewarm is scum, eliminate, no questions asked.

Ydrasse I initially thought was town (after all of the assuming i mean) for all of the interactions with me, but I'm actually inclined to take it back. Scum ydrasse is capable of so much that I shouldn't carelessly give a town pass before day 2 at the very least.

and now im bored and dont want to finish this. i might come back and finish things later

im inclined to townerad lukewarm because of lukewarms TR on me that they have no reason to give me at all if scum.

Mala dont make any impuslive decisions please. lukewarm is like the most transparent town in the world. Like if we leave ceph instead of dunn, that's somewhat acceptable. but it's not acceptable to leave lukewarm

it went from "luke is scum" > "inclined to townread luke because luke has no reason to townread me" > "luke is obvtown"

my first gut reaction is that if it's possible this is luke/noraa and noraa was planning to distance, but once the tide started turning against luke, ze went into protect mode because the scumteam didn't want to lose one of their own in predance

i will have to actually check if the timeline lines up so consider this a note for me for later

and also i'd love to hear WHY is luke obvtown if that's not been explained in the next 5 pages i haven't read yet

[Datisi]

Your bemoaning about how you would drag datisi down but not being willing to swap your partner or even comment on it is minus points

this is something that really caught my eye and i like that dunnstral pointed it out

because if noraa really was that worried about zir dragging a townie down, why is zir still thinking about pairing with me if i'm town?

how does it block you? it gives you datisi so you dont have to 1v1 anyone to get a dance partner

and this part, coupled with the above, is also ??? because i have agency in this? i make the final choice who i'm dancing with? like, i feel like a goal-oriented townie that wants to solve the game is like, gonna talk to me and get me to listen who to pair with, while scum is gonna be afraid that i'm gonna see through them and change my mind and is trying to shut the idea down before it even sets off

[Datisi]

a part of me now wants to run off with dunn

the paranoid part of me is yelling at me that this is a pocket, because dunn saw i was scumreading lukewarm so he decided to also scumread lukewarm, but (1) he was scumreading him prior, (2) proposing to mala then proposing to me feels a bit more nuanced than necessary if that's the plan and i don't know if dunn like, bothers to fake that if scum?

[Datisi]

i want to see noraa substantiate the claims against dunn

i also won't be efforting too much today because painting eggs, but i'll be around

[Datisi]

not in the mood for mafia tonight, will be here tomorrow

[Datisi]

mala luke acceptance is unofficial but assuming that goes through, we're at me + datisi choosing from noraa, dunn, and ceph?

i know datisi said he didn't want to hammer, but....

i open the game and this is the first thing i see, and like

i joined the game as a lady because i thought i wouldn't have to be making as many/hard decisions than as a gent but here we are i guess

[Datisi]

So no, you can't prove it

This really doesn't sit well with me. Because, in Web of Lies, Noraa was absolutely falling all over themselves to spout how they were the Dunn whisperer, with an impeccable ability to read Dunn. And Dunn never said anything to imply that that was false. And then Noraa was right that game.

Regardless of Noraa's actual ability, it is fairly clear that Noraa views themselves to have this ability and that Dunn is aware that Noraa view themselves that way - and both of those things can be seen in a game where both Noraa and Dunn flipped town.

So it is strange for Dunn to then go to "Prove that you can read me" which just seems like a discredit angle. But it is also an irrelevant angle if he thinks that Noraa is scum.

in web of lies, was noraa consistently townreading dunn?

also, why are you turning the conversation into "dunn told noraa to prove ze can read him" when dunn was telling noraa to prove he gives out softer stances as scum than as town?

[Datisi]

Ok datisi i'll ask you one question.

Do you think scum dunn is going to be harder to catch. Or do you think scum noraa is going to be harder to catch.

I've caught scum dunn in multiple games where NO ONE AGREED WITH ME. Dunn died day 5 in Control and was last scum standing in Mask of lies or whatever that was calleed. I caught dunn on day 2 in control, day 1 in mask of lies. There was definitely another game that i caught them in. NO ONE AGREED WITH ME in any of them. Do you not think that funnily looks exactly like this game.

And datisi, on lukewarm, do you really think that level of emotion and confusion is very town? as i've previously admitted, yes it could come from scum, but it feels extremely genuine and i want to believe it. also if lukewarm were scum with me, i would believe their ability to defend themselves. i would be much more worried about keeping myself afloat and not leaving behind any connections to scum buddies if i get left. hard defending a buddy sounds like a shitty association to leave a buddy no?

i've never seen your scumgame and the only time i've seen scum!dunn is when we were partners and he was equally low-effort throughout the whole game so fuck if i know. i feel like you want me to say that you don't like playing scum and will get tired out as the game progresses and dunn won't, but that is not meta that i have.

okay, dunn is scum this game. if you are so certain that dunn is scum this game, then what was the problem before? why were you throwing fits saying how you didn't want both you and me (who you townread) to get yeeted day 2 if you're wrong on dunn?

i've played with scum!luke. i've seen scum!luke throw such an emotional fit that i 100% bought he was town and that i got uberpocketed by a different townie, until after he flipped. so excuse me for not taking his emotion at face value because i know scum!him is capable of genuine emotion-posting. and yeah, it does look shitty, maybe it's a mistake, i don't particularly care. i've used the "defend buddy, then scream how i'm not so bad as scum to leave such bad associates behind" myself way too many times.

[Datisi]

opening the next page and seeing noraa once again talk about how ze is gonna get instayeeted tommorow on green!dunn is wild

and the fact that ze has not yet acknowledged my "why didn't/don't you try to pair with someone you don't townread then" is even wilder

[Datisi]

i'd prefer the leftover gentleman to be between noraa and luke

a preference for luke being left behind because, from what i do remember of noraa, ze can sometimes be emotional as town and fall for ate the was luke is presenting it, while luke straight up feels like cold and calculated scum!luke that's trying his hardest to appear a nuanced townie while ever so slightly twisting other people's logic to his benefit

and since mala's acceptance didn't go through yet, i'd like her to (1) explain to me why she'd accept luke, (2) reconsider

[Datisi]

i am aware but like

i'd prefer luke to be left behind rather than noraa and i think there's value in seeing certain events before that

[Datisi]

link me the game, i'll post by post analyse it. if you are right that dunn truly was low effort and broke all of my meta tells, i will agree to pairing with mala or fireisred.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=85877

the reason why i was grilling you so much about it was because you were the one to bring it up in the first place, how you didn't want to kill your town partner if dunn were to flip green. i wouldn't have said anything if your point was simply "i'm town and i don't wanna die if dunn is green", which like, understandable, but you did specifically say that you didn't want to cause deaths of two other townies

my read on dunn isn't meta, the only thing i can conclude meta-wise is that he's playing different than all the other games i've seen him in, both town and scum. i'm usually down to sheep people who have a bop on someone else if i townread them, but (1) you don't actually seem *that* sure about dunn flipping red, since you pretty consistently bring up "if dunn is green etc", and (2) i'm not yet 100% sold you're town

[Datisi]

last night, i saw that noraa was like, writing huge walls on why dunn is scum and i wanted to purposefully stay quiet to see if ze acknowledged my 994 in any way without my propmting

and the fact that ze didn't is, as the kids say, not a good look

[Datisi]

This is very hard to care about

+1

What ever happened to Mykonian anyway.
+++ there have been a lot of people who have just disappeared the second they got a partner and if there weren’t so many of them I’d want them dead on total principal.

myko said he was gonna be without internet for a few days

broadly agree with the second part, though

This game was fun up until like 4 pages ago and it will probably be fun again when the involved parties shut up about meta and mathematically calculating lurking

i am aware that townreading someone for being relatable is not a good way to play this game but fuck if i don't want to townread ceph for that right now (i will not, but like, why are we talking about math)

okay cool i got approximately nothing from the last 5 pages, that's fine

[Datisi]

I propose to Datisi

i accept dunn's proposal

ceph is paired, and no fucking way i'll be the one to have the final hammer here

[Datisi]

wouldn't be the first time

i don't remember your points on dunn being convincing to me (i actually had to reopen your iso just to try to find them) but i am not married to my townread there

[Datisi]

if i get to having to hammer a choice between two people after i narrowly evaded it this phase, i will be not happy

[Datisi]

but yeah that phase is something i mentally tuned out myself

if i'm reading right, we can in theory use that phase as a traditional yeet?

[Datisi]

Dunn left would've been best case scenario... idk what's happeninggggg this is odd feeling though cause I'm lost/behind/not gonna read, and I'm not maf this time lol

have you considered actually casing dunn prior to him getting accepted orrrrr

[Datisi]

nah no one asked my thoughts

i have asked you multiple times to explain your read on me and ceph but go off i guess

[Datisi]

semi-vla until thursday evening

will be sorta around, please @ me if my attention is needed somewhere

[Datisi]

i think bell and prism would make a really nice dancing pair

[Datisi]

that being the first post i see when i open this game is probably a great sign

hi i'm tired and the idea of catching up on however many pages i need to catch up on is making me uneasy and not wanna even try, can someone point me somewhere where i could/should start

[Datisi]

how is that the only important thing if i am allegedly being waited on?

[Datisi]

I’m waiting for datasi to get back and the. I’ll just start trying to move the discussion productively to who I should pair with.

i'm around, kinda. hi.

okay, i will be very surprised if dunn is mafia this game

my current things of interest are (1) did andante ever explain why she had such a strong townread on cephrir, (2) how did she come to think her own partner is mafia

[Datisi]

thank you lukewarm i appreciate you

that is a very odd situation, in the sense that i don't often see disagreements about hood contents? i can definitely see the scum!ginnie angle from this if the hood really is almost empty as andante says, since i think scum has good incentive to be townreading their dance partner in this game.

if the hood does contain chatter the way ginnie suggests, then i almost think that makes andante scummy? like, at first i thought how that'd be townie since scum!her didn't really do much in hoods last dance game, so why start now. but also last game her partner was firebringer, who constantly kept talking about leaving... and i really did not like 1788

though there is a very easy way to resolve both slots huehuehue

ok, has bell ever talked about wanting to yeet prism/ginnie?

[Datisi]

the hood was super empty yes. I don’t see the issue?? like how does that make me scummier?

have you considered actually reading my posts

and thanks luke

i had a thought that if bell considered pairing with andante at any point, that there' a chance scum!andante wanted to try to make that pairing happen if she thought she had better chances of surviving with bell than with ginnie

that's obviously not what happened then

[Datisi]

i’m not intentionally ignoring you!!! i’ll go through your ISO in a few hours, have class now, but yeah no I don’t think I’ve seen most of your posts ._.

i didn't say you're ignoring me

i said i wrote "if hood really is as empty as andante says, then i can really see the scum!ginnie angle" and you responded with "HOW DOES EMPTY HOOD MAKE ME SCUMMIER"

[Datisi]

Which this exchange left me wondering if Andante would follow through with it. The immediate back down when Dunn said that she could leave right now (despite that not actually being true

oof

the fact that her bolded attempt to leave came after dunn told her she cannot leave right now is making any sorta townread i built on andante in the last few posts shatter lmao

[Datisi]

Dat, what did you think of enchants reply?

assuming you mean 1703, 1706, and 1710: meh. i forgot / i didn't notice is a meh response. i can't say i'd expect anything else from enchant regardless of his alignment.

[Datisi]

Because I was tunneled on Dunnstral?

i'm pretty sure i was publicly townreading dunnstral, no?

[Datisi]

VOTE: andante

going from "my partner is scum!! i will attempt to leave!!" during the time THEY WERE TOLD they cannot leave, into "i really tr my partner now!!!" is lmao

[Datisi]

and i see the towncase on ceph did not happen so yeah this can die

[Datisi]

They are a capable player and haven't received a fair amount of scrutiny.

do you think a singular naked vote is actually any significant amount of scrutiny?

[Datisi]

have you also compared the amount of free time i had during the christmas break and during exam season or are you just looking for a way to omgus me?

[Datisi]

have you also compared the amount of free time i had during the christmas break and during exam season or are you just looking for a way to omgus me?

that depends. are you even actually trying to read me? or am I just easy to push cause I've been busy with school?

yes, i called you out early game for nonsense reads and you ignored me

then you vanished once your own pair was formed

then you started bs'ing how your partner is mafia and how you want to leave them (when it was said that you cannot leave them) and you still tried to do it

and now that you CAN leave, you magically strong townread them?

and also the cephrir case that you kept saying you were gonna make but never did does seem like you wanted bell to kill a player that's a bit more difficult to kill than enchant is

but sure, i'm pushing you because it's easy, you got it

[Datisi]

if you're town, I'd rather not do this, but if you want to go, I have no problem just tunneling you here.

lmao what kinda threat is this? "i think you're town, but if you don't stop scumreading me i will tunnel you"

[Datisi]

give me something to work with and i will think about it.

[Datisi]

also like, no i don't really care about what was said or wasn't said in hoods because those things are a breeding ground for crappy pockets, so.

[Datisi]

You don't care at all that I'm voting you here?

i don't think you're scum, and you have given zero reasons for me being scum other then "they need scrutiny". prodding you for more information is the only thing i can do.

[Datisi]

Even maybe scum Andante sees it.

you see, town andante went "fire is just ignoring ceph...." hmmm ceph isn't that towny... actually I think he's maf... then he posted last night and I was like "yeah he's maf" CEPH + GINNGIE. GG EASY GAME!!!!

would love to hear from datisi though

what the fuck happened in this game while i was gone

[Datisi]

should i ask why your reads seem to be polar opposites than they were last time i was here?

[Datisi]

Ok, I just had a thought and I think it's worth sharing. I wanna say I TR datisi, there is no chance he comes in going "what the fuck happened" as maf, after the me and ginngie stuff... NOT. A. CHANCE.

i've seen some asspull reads in my time but this takes the cake

[Datisi]

At the start of my neighborhood after the end of day 1 I say that I want to vote Andante, Enchant, and Malakittens.

Datisi says they also suspect Andante and ask about my read Enchant.

Ew. Would datisi make such an obvious mistake though?

this made me realize that that post from dunn was being framed as "this is why datisi is scum with mala" and i am genuinely confused where dunn got the idea that scum!me is likely to avoid my partners

[Datisi]

anyone have a read on whether scum are happy with the gamestate or scared to do anything

yeah me neither

ceph, how much time did you spend thinking before you made this post?

[Datisi]

reading through page 93 made me think andante/ginnie are s/s both threatening to leave the game

i know it's likely not the case but

[Datisi]

anyone have a read on whether scum are happy with the gamestate or scared to do anything

yeah me neither

ceph, how much time did you spend thinking before you made this post?

the first part: none

the second part: idk a minute or two maybe

so why do you seem to magically come to scum!me via night actions in 2410 once your pair is being threatened

[Datisi]

one possible reason for no kill is datisi and/or mykonian scum as they both have attractive partners and might die

the other angle is someone who's doing really well and doesn't want their partner to change to someone who might change their dynamic

is anyone still using their PTs anyway?

mmm okay i guess it was mentioned here

though it was mentioned as one possibility of like, 3+ of them so not that many points here

[Datisi]

I asked Datisi who they thought was mafia with Malakittens. They said they don't know and maybe they will check her iso, and check my progression.

Maybe they can do that today

do you actually care about me doing this

[Datisi]

there was a reason why i was asking dunn that but okay noted

[Datisi]

I know but I was so happy there was finally a post I could reply to

How are you doing Datisi, you've been busy, I gather?

wrote two essays that were due monday, took one exam yesterday, slept for 14 hours, took another one today, so yeah :<

if you wanna reply to posts, i gotchu fam: gun-to-head, who's the scum and why?

[Datisi]

andante, do you know the difference between genuine and correct

[Datisi]

i realized my own thought in 2408 after i was forced to think about it some more suggested that

and what is the strength of that read? like to me it seems like you're both saying it's suggested (which i don't take to be very strong) but the wording in 2410 doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation

[Datisi]

andante, do you know the difference between genuine and correct

yeah, but like Ceph’s SR on me makes no sense, doesn’t feel like he actually SRs me either

i read through the pages i missed and i was (maybe foolishly) hoping i would get why you went from townreading him to scumreading him and like i'm not sure i get it

why is ceph scum, pls no "read on me isn't genuine" or something similarly vague like that

[Datisi]

i don't know what "mostly around mala" refers to

my attention is currently on ginnie, cephrir, and dunnstral

from what i've gathered, the entirety of the dunnstral scumread on me seems to boil down to "i'm a good player and need to be poked at" and "datisi did not interact with mala much or mention her in the hood"

which like, (1) i feel like that isn't a difficult claim to make when i haven't been around as much as usual and there are probably other people i haven't spoken much to, (2) dunn is very much aware how much planning i put into interactions with scumbuddies as scum, so the fact that he's using that as means to suspect me is Odd at the very least

[Datisi]

it kinda sucks that this is happening at the day i have classes the whole day and can't sit here and argue to infinity, but

it's ginnie and cephrir.

like, look at the way they're playing around each other. ginnie was voting his pair, then made a post how everyone thinks i'm scum (because that is a point in favour of me being scum, apparently?) and swapped votes. ceph voted their pair when it was seeming like they're likely to flip, but kept subtly aligning towards voting me even though he did not get to that conclusion independently when he thought about it, like when he was thinking about the night actions

and now, as soon as there are any votes on me, he swaps over and claims to be pairing me/andante together because us scumreading each other for the whole game and then andante townreading me because i said "what the fuck is happening" is ???????????

oh, and ginnie's "i will leave im x time" is bullshit. like they're telling me "scum wouldn't leave" well NO SHIT scum wouldn't leave, that's why your acting about "yes guys i will totally leave but also my pair is t/t but also yes i will definitely levae" is fale as fuck. town doesn't think like that. if you think your pair is t/t but your flip is +town for the gamestate, fucking leave or see who votes you. if you think it's t/t and don't want to flip, you don't write that shit out. like it's performative as fuck because it was obvious they were never going to actually leave

VOTE: ginnie

might check in here and there today but like i am over this game so whatever

[Datisi]

datisi, why do you think a ginnie and ceph team would no-kill?

i have not once successfully analysed night actions and i don't plan on starting now, but

if i'm right on the two more evenly townread pairs being t/s, then it also kind of makes sense. because killing within them, like killing andante or fire, is relatively risky because there's always that small chance that whoever they propose to doesn't accept them, which would be Bad

and if they kill in dunn/bell, then yeah it's probably likely that me/myko die, which like, if that flips town then it immediately makes the town reconsider. but also with andante being as labile as she is, there's always a chance that she yolo-accepts one of us and lol. while if they don't kill, then yeah the game does get potentially longer for a few irl days, but they're not worse off

because like, if they have two scummy/townie t/t pairs in the game, shooting within them can be a risk because separating such a pair is inherently going to shake the gamestate up

[Datisi]

*subtly aligns with the moon, mercury and voting datisi*

i dont remember giving a reason for my vote that had anything to do with your interactions with andante but it sounds like maybe you really worked on crafting them so im sorry for not noticing

my point is moreso that there was no consideration for what was being said. is it possible to genuinely scumread me/andante as a pair, sure, maybe. but the fact that you just went "yeah lol they can be scum together" without seemingly giving any thought on whether it actually made sense because it fit your narrative at the moment is

yeah not a good look

[Datisi]

like i have had some scumgames where i did do some wacky ass theater with buddies so i would not be offended if someone came to the conclusion that me/andante can be theater, but it requires more thought that "lol ye sure"

[Datisi]

i'm not sure what about that is supposed to change my mind

like, generally. scum shows tmi. scum is super aware of their partners. it is very easy for me to imagine scum!ginnie seeing their partner give a read that they realised doesn't track because they're obviously aware what their partners are doing, and then call mala out on it because, again, they're afraid someone is gonna notice when it's not as easily that obvious to others than it is to ginnie

also mala has every incentive to switch over to a townread of that slot if ginnie is their partner, so

and it's not like ginnie was pushing super hard for mala to gwt left behind, especially when i'm guessing there were other ideas being thrown around (cbf to go back to check rn)

not sure what i'm supposed to think about luke's post? ye, he was town, he got to a right read of mala. the fact that he got to it because ginnie mentioned it is funny but it does not make me change my mind

[Datisi]

like, compare mala getting to a townread of ginnie -- bullshitting something about liking their entry or liking the previous owner of the slot -- with andante townreading me by saying "datisi ask what is going on so datisi town!!" and tell me which one looks more like a scum reverting a read of their buddy

[Datisi]

like i know i'm making a logical fallacy by implying it's one or the other but my point is that i don't think at all that that read is clearing for mala/ginnie being s/s

[Datisi]

also skimming back through their iso and early voting phase, ginnie comes around to a townread of mala (???), starts pushing luke, but also keeps egging on the me/andante fight while saying i'm chainsawing for luke WHILE i am plainly getting more votes than luke is

[Datisi]

and if they kill in dunn/bell, then yeah it's probably likely that me/myko die, which like, if that flips town then it immediately makes the town reconsider.

I guess Datisi also said the same thing and you two are in agreement? Not sure why they jumped to that either.

i mean, i was asked to do backwards logic on something that i never do. if going by general reads of the game, then me and myko are the two most likely to die there. i will admit that i did not go back to check on who had what individual reads, like i know that's probably more important considering the decisions are singularly made but i am not about to spend time on a point that requires analysis that i was never good at and don't genuinely believe in

[Datisi]

Secondly he’s saying i think the pair is Andante/Datisi which is wrong as well.

so you did not actually read anything what i was saying and want to force the easy flip through. cool.

[Datisi]

next time i try to join multiple games during exams, someone pls slap me

gg town