Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Lukewarm]

I have arrived

[Lukewarm]

After reading page one, I have come to the controversial position that Ydra looks decently town. Vaguely like Prism's entrance, vaguely don't like Noraa's or Andante's. No thoughts on Bell

[Lukewarm]

I have arrived

who's mafia

Sorry, don't work that fast lol

[Lukewarm]

ydra is town you're the one I'm not thinking is town?

yeah i think i'd die before ever offering to neighborize town ydra if i was scum lmfao. ydra would literally just leave the game on the spot

Am curious to Ydra's response to this, and how it would match up with their play history. Might find that as I read, but if not, this is a question for ydra

[Lukewarm]

AYYYYYY So last time I was maf, and like, we didn't solve in the hood at all, and I kinda liked that sooo I don't plan on posting significantly in the hood, like I'd rather just dump thoughts in the thread, so yeah, but TOWN!!! LET'S GOOOOOO I only accept dance proposals from town! We are endgaming! gg. tryhard mode activated. maf be scared

You liked that you didn't solve in the hood when you were mafia last time and you want to not solve in the hood again this game?

Dunn is reading Andante's posts more closely then I am, so that is probably +town for him lol

[Lukewarm]

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

towny post

scummy entrance

i had already entered

I had not seen an issue with post 66, but this response does not look good

[Lukewarm]

right now i don't like luke or fire much

in a game sense

Sad

[Lukewarm]

Just as a heads up, I am actively trying to bring down the site wide perception of me being super high energy all of the time. Because, it is pretty not fun when I am town in a low energy irl day, and then everyone decides that low energy luke = scum luke, and so then low energy irl luke feels pressured to amp it up to not eat a miselim.

Take from that what you will, but I am aware that that might lead to me eating some miselims before people buy that I am changing my town playstyle for my own benefit.

[Lukewarm]

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

towny post

scummy entrance

i had already entered

I had not seen an issue with post 66, but this response does not look good

Scum Luke would dream of getting away with a post like this. But there's bigger fish to fry out there. I can wait and see with Luke.

This is an interesting take. I don't believe you and I have ever played together, what gives you any impression on what size fish I am ? Or that giving me time will make a difference?

[Lukewarm]

it's an opener i can't really sort let alone being responsible for a pt to sort it in without unraveling a lot of mental knots

ok i understand that. the main reason i wanted it was just that if you happen to be town and came around to a TR on me, i felt like our pt would be a very awesome one to have. like my reads are generally bad but yours are good and in general pt dynamics between two town who TR each other are just good.

i also felt like offering to dance with you would be something that scum me would just never do and i felt like it would show a level of trust that scum me would never be willing to place in town you (again assuming you are town)

all bets were placed on town ydra and while that may seem unreasonable, its a gamble that i felt was worth it so it's what i chose. this is super explainy but that was my thought process. it doesnt make sense in every way but it doesn't really have to to be real.

Is this something that you thought about before the day started, or was this your gut reaction to the day opening and Ydra's opening posts?

[Lukewarm]

I think people should pair up based on their posting frequency. It doesnt make sense to pair a high frequency poster with a low frequency poster. it would be "wasting" the high frequency posts because pts can make sorting easier a lot of the time.

This approach seems so arbitrary. Is that something that has been done in other Dance Games?

[This is my first real dance game - just a marathon one time, and those are wild]

[Lukewarm]

Is this something that you thought about before the day started, or was this your gut reaction to the day opening and Ydra's opening posts?

it was a gut reaction for sure. that post was me trying to explain that gut reaction in hindsight and put it into words.

noted.

You had a couple of posts about leading with an offer to dance with Ydra that seemed pretty thought out for something you did in your first post of the game.

[Lukewarm]

127 gives me flashbacks to the last game i've seen someone say "i'm purposefully trying to change my meta" and then they flipped scum, but we'll see

Just as an fyi, I have a prior game where I tried (and failed) at doing a meta shift game. Ended up getting really excited by my position in the set up, and my high energy busted through anyways. So this is attempt number 2.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13250974

Not sure if that extra bit of information will help you sort me. I know I am town trying again, but I am sure someone who thinks I am scum could easily make the argument that I am scum hiding behind that precedent. I don't think that I would actually try and do a meta shift while scum until after that meta shift has been broadly recognized because I would try harder to win as scum, but I can see the counter argument.

----

I am vaguely unsure of the best way to approach finding a dance partner. Like, should I be aiming to woo over my top town read, or trying to find a mutual town read? Or just eliminating out people I don't think that will make good dance partners (I like Noraa, but the two of us clash a lot, so that PT does not seem like it would be a good idea overall)? Or just focus on scum hunting the gentlemen, and making a case on who should be left out? I am just unsure. So, I guess I am gonna just do isos cause I don't really know what else to do at the moment.

[Lukewarm]

I have completed my iso dives of all of the eligible ladies, and I have an issue. I did not find any scum reads

I like Ydra, Dats, and Fire all as town leans.

Enchant and Mala are both pretty close to null, but just barely perceptively higher then null for not seeming to care how their dip in and dip out would look.

[Lukewarm]

Gonna take a break before I attempt the gents

[Lukewarm]

Here is a copy and paste from my notes

Datisi Town Lean
225 feels like a town datisi post.
236 I found myself nodding along to everything.

I really hope that Datisi is town, feels like I can just let him do all of the thinking for me this game

Fireisredsir town lean.
Tone seems vaguely the same as the only game I have encountered him in before. I very much like the preemptive offer to do meta for town in post 136. Especially with the follow up in 208 showing that he did at least some amount of meta looking.

I especially like that the post where he comments that he did it, he did not make a show of having done the meta metioned prior. Like, I am stll unsure who Bell was talking about, and on my initial read thruogh, I did not realize that fire was talking about Myko here -so much so that even Myko did not realize that this was about him(228), but in 208 is consistent with 249, where he makes it more clear.

And 249 is more thought out, and like, fire scum would have made the more thought out post if doing meta for meta sake, instead of deciding the meta was too old and dropping it, then waiting to be prompted before saying the meta analysis.

[Lukewarm]

236 I found myself nodding along to everything.

hyperaware that venturing into Handwritten Notes Territory is extremely fraught, but is this a real note. this is a thing one says to others as a manner of explanation in my mind

Short Answer, yes. Long answer probably does not help anyone sort me, so I'll spoiler it.

Spoiler: Long Answer

I don't normally make notes. I normally start my iso dives with a split screen, with an ISO open on one side, and the post preview page on the other. I make comments on posts as they come to me in basically the style that I just copy pasted, and then when I am done with however many iso dives that I am going to do, I go back through that post preview and try to pretty it up for audience consumption/look back at things I flagged originally to possibly dig deeper into it. Then post massive walls of texts.

Wanted to not do that this time, so I proceeded as normal - except the notes were in a notepad document, and stopped before going back to pretty it up.

So instead, I just dropped the highlights of what I had done. Ydra/Dats/Fire leaning town, Enchant and Mala pretty null with minor town points for not caring about appearances. But then Andante asked me to explain more, but I was hoping off. Decided to copy/paste instead of dipping the thread.

I wanted to work through the isos, and think about the slots to start forming reads, so I started down the path for how I normally do that, but I wanted the end result in thread to be different, so I didn't do the follow up.

IDK man, just trying to play differently, and feeling out the ways to do that.

[Lukewarm]

oh hang on it says here if someone asks you if you're scum it's the law that you have to tell them damn. yeah i am awoo etc

I propose we leave Cephrir out, unironically.

if cephrir has million number of ladies ready to dance i am one of them. if cephrir has six ladies waiting for his hand i am one of them. if cephrir have only one lady and that is me. if cephrir has no ladies, that means i am no more on the earth. if world against the cephrir, i am against the world 

This is an interesting stance. Just because Cehprir is a lovely person? Or are you town reading Cephrir currently (and if yes, why)?

[Lukewarm]

Despite the shade directed at me, I have generally liked Cehprir's entrance.

[Lukewarm]

I need scum reads.

[Lukewarm]

Before doing my iso dives of the gentlemen, I would be inclined to leave Noraa behind. But I do want to get those iso dives done. But that is not happening right now, gotta get off

[Lukewarm]

i have seen multiple gentlemen say they townread me but zero (0) proposals to me and that is a disgrace

on a slightly less jokey note, noraa, why so much talk about who you wanna pair with but no proposals being sent out

I considered proposing to you, but then I was not sure if I should actually propose to fire. I felt like they were town, but had several people suspicious of them, and I thought maybe tethering myself to fire could help keep him from getting miselimed later.

But I also suffer from decision making paralysis, and don't actually know if that is a smart way to handle the pairing process either.

[Lukewarm]

in past dances have maf avoided partnering with each other?

I've played a lot of dance games and have never seen mafia pair with each other except for myself

My only dance game was a marathon, and the scum team (Cephrir + StD) proposed to one another right away.

[Lukewarm]

in past dances have maf avoided partnering with each other?

I've played a lot of dance games and have never seen mafia pair with each other except for myself

My only dance game was a marathon, and the scum team (Cephrir + StD) proposed to one another right away.

[Lukewarm]

Never have really understood the rush to pair except that now I feel pressured to do it faster so I don't end up with someone less desirable simply because everyone else is rushing

Oh look, a decidedly opposite approach then what you brought to that marathon game.

[Lukewarm]

why are we comparing this to a marathon game?? they're completely different

Also Cephrir is like definitely town here

Because his approach in that game is very different then his approach in this game. And he was scum in that game, and he is ?? in this game. As it turns out, I draw comparisons to past experience to come to conclusions.

The thought that he typed out was also more in line with my own thoughts in both games. So, noticing a similar line of thinking to my own.

[Lukewarm]

i only asked abt the leaving/benefit/etc aspect honestly because i was considering how important pairs actually are compared to being lovers

i don't think it leads anywhere but i was sort of just. hm. is a narrative somehow being pushed here under the premise of like... how to explain. people thinking about this game as traditional dancing.

*blink*

it was not until this moment that I realized that the dance partners would not be lovers

[Lukewarm]

I am kind of surprised to see enchant not just accept the dance offer, regardless of his alignment.

Also, hello Mala

[Lukewarm]

It's the first choice enchant makes this game, something good came from it. Though they didn't say as much :/. Fearless? Hardly, we wouldn't be lovers.

You are not lovers in the traditional sense, but during the voting phase you are voted out together. So I think that Enchant is saying that it is dangerous to pair with him, because he is likely to get voted out, therefore pairing with him would make you fearless. That follows with this post

i know that this also might be a fruitless endeavor, but @enchant, how come you did not accept the proposal?

I don't want to pair with potential town.

On the surface, this looks like a decent strategy for a LHF townie. Pair with your top scum read, so that if/when people scum read you, you are taking that person down with you. Prism/Ydra were talking about this strategy for a mafia to do, but it looks like enchant was thinking about doing it as a townie.

[Lukewarm]

and I thought maybe tethering myself to fire could help keep him from getting miselimed later.

???

you are aware you're not like, a very popular townread this game, right?

I am aware. But I also know that until recently I have basically never been miseliminated. So, I do still have a "I am hard to miseliminate" mindset for myself. Maybe that is a dumb way to think about it given that I am playing differently, but I really don't know the best way to pick a dance partner, and that was an idea that I had to try and apply a strategy to the decision.

[Lukewarm]

but why

I get too much heat at day.

Accept the proposal and you can take yourself out of today. We might even have a private chat.

I find it interesting that myko does not seem to realize Enchant's logic, when he kinda spelled it all out.

I want to say that it is scummy for him to not be thinking through Enchant's posts while simultaneously trying to get enchant to dance with him for the stated purpose of making enchant more readable - but I also don't really see the scum benefit of trying so hard to get enchant as a dance partner. That would likely be an actually dangerous choice for scum. Unless he didn't like his odds of not getting left behind?

[Lukewarm]

why did enchant wait till pressured to accept? like, I'd have completely understood not wanting to pair.. like "I DON'T TR ENCHANT" "ENCHANT DANCE WITH ME" that's just.. if myko is town, myko leaves first chance they get.... so why would enchant want to pair with myko?? makes no sense to me, but then the pressure and enchant is like "i accept" like, what??

does that make enchant scum for you? because accepting a dance with a partner who outright doesn't townread you feels like a very shitty strategy, especially when your game-gender is in the minority

I'm not certain actually, but there's something about that I really don't like, and that pair could honestly be S/S and I think that's the best explanation for why people are acting like they are here?? idk, I think I'll just be going back to plan of doing nothing till everyone else pairs up then dealing with it

Strange take. I feel like scum myko + scum enchant would want to partner with literally anyone else, so s/s seems like the least logical explanation.

The pairing makes me feel icky, and I could see either one individually as scum, but I cannot picture them as scum together.

[Lukewarm]

maybe

dunnstral/mala
lukewarm/Datisi
cephir/fireisred

luke+ceph swap works too

good vibe pairings

Would like to see both prism and ydra say why they like these pairings.

[Lukewarm]

luke is the scummiest of the bunch to me currently

But this definitely makes me feel less inclined to pair with datisi now

[Lukewarm]

Re:Nora's read on Dunn.


I have thoughts but they feel convoluted.

I am not consciously scum reading Dunn, but I am definitely not town reading him either.

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is, but I do feel like there is a difference between this game and one where i was ready to hard defend him like in say Web of Lies or Shakespeare.

I kind of like the fact that Noraa is picking up a difference there as well, since web of lies we were both ready to go to bat for Dunn, and this neither of us are town reading him this game.

It is making me rethink my Noraa scum read. Which is annoying because I don't have enough of them as it is :/

[Lukewarm]

My hero solve for day 1 is Prism, Dunn, then one of Myko/enchant.

Not taking questions [just for posterity] thanks!

[Lukewarm]

I think that Dunn should be left behind

propose to Mala

I don't currently trust Prism, which leaves me disinclined to let her do the sorting of the pairs.

Thinking selfishly, I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2, and I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today. So, survival thinking says Mala is my best bet.

[Lukewarm]

I have some thoughts on some of the recent postings that I think I should sit on until I'm in a pt or facing being left behind.

[Lukewarm]

have a big ol feeling at least one mafia is doing the “i will be frank about not knowing what to say or think or do and i want to survive.”

This feels like an exact summary of Lukewarm, but who are the other people you are referencing here?

I can

maybe

see thus applying to Nora?

[Lukewarm]

I have some thoughts on some of the recent postings that I think I should sit on until I'm in a pt or facing being left behind.

This isn’t a good idea. My actual position on neighborhoods when you don’t know your partners alignment is the same as what I said in shakesphere mafia. I think most scum gain an advantage in neighborhoods versus main threads. For *points at arguments made in that game I can’t bother to repeat them all*

Mala is not in my scum pile, and if mala is scum, then my thoughts are moot. I am happy to sit on it for now.

[Lukewarm]

Hmmm. I don't want Noraa and Datisi paired.

If we are leaving Dunn behind, I think I want

Me+Mala
Noraa+Fire
Ceph+Datisi.

If Noraa is being left behind, I would want

Me+Mala
Dunn+Datisi
Cehp+Fire

[Lukewarm]

There are 3 angles there and you’re just insisting the third one doesn’t exist through sheer bluster.

Eh.

I meant that I would share it in the main thread Day 2.

If Mala is town, I think that it is better to not say my current thoughts today, and I can drop it in our PT over night, and it can always make it to the main thread day 2.

If Mala is scum, my original theory is bad and wrong, so it doesn't matter.

What is the 3rd angle that you are saying that I am ignoring?

[Lukewarm]

Hmmm. I don't want Noraa and Datisi paired.

If we are leaving Dunn behind, I think I want

Me+Mala
Noraa+Fire
Ceph+Datisi.

If Noraa is being left behind, I would want

Me+Mala
Dunn+Datisi
Cehp+Fire

I am realizing that there are too many moving parts for me to try and get it to where someone can hammer one option or the other. So, I can't really orcastrate this choice, and that is frustrating.

Me+Mala, and then Noraa+Fire, giving Dats the hammer between Ceph and Dunn might be the closest things that I can see. But, I don't really see Fire agreeing to that because he was scum reading Noraa.

[Lukewarm]

Ugh, I have thoughts, and I desperately want to be more strategic in the way that I disseminate my thoughts to the thread, and not just blurt every thought I have out. But I am struggling to find the best way to do it. So, I guess I failed, and I am blurting my thoughts out.

I hated Datisi's 587.

The moment I read it, my brain said that that is a mafia scared of a quick switch in thread perception of their partner. Nora made a case, I started shifting my reads (575), Fire said it was convincing (577). And then Datisi dropped 587.

It bothered me that it didn't call Dunn town, or town case him. It just called Noraa's reasons NAI - pumping breaks on the shift, without committing to calling Dunn town
Then said he was questioning his reads, then said he was gonna do some isos. Sets him up for a new push somewhere else all in one go.
----
So, if we leave out Dunn, and he flips scum, I feel like that town locks Noraa, and makes me more suspicious of Dats. So, I do not want that to be a pair if we are leaving out Dunn.
----

I also didn't like 616, but in a way that is harder for me to put into words.

----

One the other hand, I feel like if Dunn flips town, I feel like scum!Datisi would be less likely to try and pump the breaks on the Dunn read shift. So, I much prefer flipping Dunn over any of the other options (Being me, noraa, Ceph, and Dunn), because he is not one of my town reads, and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa.

Pedit: Datisi just posted a change in stance, and I don't really know who to feel about it :/

[Lukewarm]

I have read through 616->617->618 a few times... I feel like my thoughts are bad.

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance. Followed by an olive branch. And then deciding he needed to not look like Dunn's partner. But this is an incredibly self centered way to read that interaction, and so it is probably bad.

Like it would require Dats to realize that I paired him with Dunn, and then him changing his stance just in response to me, and that seems unlikely when I think about it logically.

[Lukewarm]

Okay. If I separate out the bad thoughts, I think I am here:

Scum!Dunn town locks Noraa, who could be miseliminated fairly easily otherwise. and
Town!Dunn reverts me back to thinking that Datisi is town.

I will wait to consider the inverses until a later date, because the bad thoughts live in the inverses.

Noraa is currently town in my brain. Ceph is pretty null.

So, I still want a Dunn flip today.

[Lukewarm]

he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

I actually typed out a more explicit version of

Town Dunn -> Scum Noraa, but then deleted it because I realized that I don't really know if that is true. I think I would need to reevaluate her there.

So, I actually think

Town Dunn-> Town Dats, and a need to reevaluate Noraa.
Scum Dunn -> Town Noraa, and a need to reevaluate you.

[Lukewarm]

Sorry. Reevaluate zir there

[Lukewarm]

But my thoughts are that 616 feels like he was realizing that my read on him might be shifting, trying to get a better feel for my stance.

this part is true

i have reread the posts you have made that page, and even while KNOWING you were thinking about dats/dunn at the time, i still cannot see how i was supposed to see that from those posts, so

Responding to this post feels like one of my posts that serve no purpose, but I have broken the self restraint dam for the afternoon.

I mean, I openly suggested that you and dunn should be paired if dunn were not killed this day phase. And, if you and dunn really are scum together, I feel like that would have been an easy thing to spot. but, :shrug:

[Lukewarm]

reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

I am curious in what ways this reminds you of the guardians game.

If you are town, I feel like it would be most similar to my partner read on you paired with Chaos in Tris's normal game.

That is actually the interaction that I thought of once I put all of my thoughts out there, and why I started calling my thoughts bad, because it reminded me of when I made a partner case against you in the past and I was wrong.

[Lukewarm]

reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

I am curious in what ways this reminds you of the guardians game.

If you are town, I feel like it would be most similar to my partner read on you paired with Chaos in Tris's normal game.

That is actually the interaction that I thought of once I put all of my thoughts out there, and why I started calling my thoughts bad, because it reminded me of when I made a partner case against you in the past and I was wrong.

Unless of course, you were just looking for a way to call me scum by calling it similar to my scum game with you

[Lukewarm]

Here is a final post of Luke living his life as an open book, and then I am getting off of here for the night, and going to try again to turn back on the self restraint.

Here I was living my best life, reading through the thread. And vaguely concerned that I did not have any strong scum reads other then noraa. Then, Noraa decides to drop zir scum case on Dunn, and rock my world view, because I have had repeated thoughts on Dunn not being obviously town to me despite him having been in our last couple games, but not really having a scum read on him. Just noticing that it wasn't the same. And ze walks in saying that ze also noticed something different about Dunn, and felt like we were having similar thoughts about Dunn especially given our interactions wrt to dunn during and after the web of lies game. It gave me pretty strong "this is a similar mind looking at Dunn" and skyrocked Noraa out of my scum reads. Not even convinced that it made Dunn scum, just that zir and I were picking up the same things. So Noraa Town.

Suddenly, I am not living my best life anymore because I have no scum reads, and that is a sad life to lead in a game with 3 scum in it. So, then I started thinking about the fact that that likely means that the scum team has strong scum players in it. Prism and Dunn are both (in my opinion) very strong scum players that were both chilling in my null reads. So, I started thinking about a world where they were scum, and it made the world make a lot more sense, and why I was struggling to see red. Enter my hero solve of 582.

Boom, bam, ca pow. Dats' 587. My mind is racing. We got a scum team now fellas. That screamed partner reaction to me boys. Lets throw my hero solve away QUICK. New solve, Dunn+Datisi+[enchant/myko/Prism].

Gears are tumbling on how to live in this world. The answer: Leave dunn behind, and do everything I can do to not be paired with Dats. Enter, Proposing to Mala in 592. But wait! I shouldn't let Dats know I am on to him! There is no way for him to die this day phase, so no need to spill the beans right now. See 596. I got a secret, and I ain't sharing. ho ha.

Now what. I am proposing to Mala, how do I thwart the evil plans of the Dunn+Dats scum team. I know. Post 605. We kill Dunn! AND, we don't let Noraa pair with Dats. That will show them. But wait. People might not buy killing Dunn. What is the next best alternative? Pair Dunn and Datisi, OBVIOUSLY. I'm gonna be a good little boy, and cover my bases. Take that scum team.

Noraa posts 606, and my brain short circuits. How the hell do I tell zir why i don't want them paired without revealing my partner pair of Dunn+Dats. This is impossible. How do I stay one step ahead.

I guess I gotta spill the beans. Let my deranged thoughts flow. post 625.

Then I read dat's 616->618. And I typed out a whole thought process on how they were still partners. And then I had a flash back to that Tris game, where I wrote a dissertation on why Chaos and Dats were scum partners, and I was wrong. So, I started second guessing myself, and calling those Bad Thoughts. post 629.

And, since I was seeing those similarities, I started feeling like I should back off of the partner pair aspect of my thinking, and focus more on the townspew that come from the dunn flip (635), and that is my final conclusion of my flurry of thoughts on the whole thing.

Although, me thinking about how similar this situation is to the Tris game, but Dats not seeing it, and instead just calling me scummy did ping me all over again - but i went back to that interaction, and Dat's reaction to that was also to loudly start calling me scum, so :shrug:

I still like my town spews on a Dunn flip, but I am walking back somewhat the scum implications of the flips. We can cross that bridge when we get there.

And *bow*

You have all been privy to the hamster running on a wheel that is my thoughts.

I am going to get off of here, and when I return on the marrow, I shall try to bring back the self restrained version of myself you have all been growing accustomed to.

pedit: I see something I want to respond to, and so I shall before I get off of here.

[Lukewarm]

@luke, it's not about your specific actions, it's about the overall feel your posts give off

Can I ask what my master plan is in this scenario then? If you are town, and I am scum?

Is my partner Dunn, and I am trying to get him killed today, and set up a partner association on you? If so, why would I ever aim to kill off Dunn here? He is better then me lmao. I would be trying to either keep Nora in the death crosshairs, or possibly even falling on my sword for him if I didn't think we could get Noraa though.

Or am I scum, and Dunn is town, and I am pushing to flip him today, and then literally every singe thing that I said about you being scum becomes completely meaningless because it all hinged on his scum flip, and I even stated that i would town lock you on his flip?

----

Too be clear, I am actvely trying to not partner associate you any more, but your argument that I am scum doing this feels bad.

Which funny enough, is making me lean back towards you being town, because I feel like I typed up this exact message to you in that Tris game.

[Lukewarm]

tbh i was moving in a town luke direction but i feel like 657 serves absolutely no purpose other than to get townread and i don't love it

Motivation being that I have not been having a ton of fun this game, and I thoroughly enjoyed typing that post, and I chucked at myself a couple times as I typed it.

Plus, it got out the thoughts that I had been holding back from the thread previously, which normally those thoughts would have been being posted as they came.

---

Anyways, if anyone sees me in this thread again before tomorrow, please yell at me. I'm really leaving my computer now.

[Lukewarm]

I have returned. I feel like I should rephrase my thoughts from before I left in a more coherent manor, since I kinda rambled my way into my conclusions yesterday.

We only have 4 options of people to kill atm: Me, Noraa, Ceph, and Dunn. I don't want me to die, and I because I felt like I was pickign up the same vibes was zir, I distinctly don't want Noraa to die. So, that leaves Dunn and Ceph. Ceph is a null read, and Dunn is distinctly Not A Town Read. Which is in itself worse then a null read. So, just looking at the 4 possibilities left, it feels like Dunn is the most likely to flip red. However, I think that Dunn's flip would also provide me with the more information regarding other players then Ceph.

I do not think that scum!Noraa goes that hard on leaving Dunn behind if they are partners. I don't think that scum!Datisi makes post 587 if Dunn is town.

So, 1) I feel like of the 4 presented options, Dunn feels like the highest change to flip Red, and 2) Dunn's flip would provide the most workable information to me.

I think that that is the clearest way to present my final conclusions of my thoughts. Of course, at this point I have no agency, and its really up to Mala/Dats on what we are doing.

I'm gonna catch up now.

[Lukewarm]

So no, you can't prove it

This really doesn't sit well with me. Because, in Web of Lies, Noraa was absolutely falling all over themselves to spout how they were the Dunn whisperer, with an impeccable ability to read Dunn. And Dunn never said anything to imply that that was false. And then Noraa was right that game.

Regardless of Noraa's actual ability, it is fairly clear that Noraa views themselves to have this ability and that Dunn is aware that Noraa view themselves that way - and both of those things can be seen in a game where both Noraa and Dunn flipped town.

So it is strange for Dunn to then go to "Prove that you can read me" which just seems like a discredit angle. But it is also an irrelevant angle if he thinks that Noraa is scum.

[Lukewarm]

Thank you for your insight Enchant.

[Lukewarm]

To be clear, I am saying they are either lying or misinformed, and that what they are claiming is untrue

And he doubled down.

But again, even if Noraa is wrong about their ability to read Dunn, it has been established in a prior game that Noraa firmly believes that ze have this ability, and Dunn should by all rights know that that Noraa believes that.

[Lukewarm]

In web of lies I was a friendly neighbor who was cleared to a neighborhood of 4 people and noraa was calling me town

You are cherry picking

Noraa said all of that before your friendly neighbor was revealed... So no, your friendly neighbor PR that game has nothing to do with Noraa's self perceived ability to read you.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, do you believe that I have softer stances when I roll mafia?

This is going to be a very unsatisfactory answer, but I don't have a conscious metric by which I read you. But there are some games that just scream at me that you are town despite you getting semi-widely scum read, because you feel exactly the same way you did in our first game.

First game being Divide and Conquer, following games that screamed at me that you were town being Shakespeare and Web of Lies (prior to your FN reveal).

And then there are games where you don't feel that way: Those being Control (I spectated that game), Isekai, and Bloodstained. 2/3 of those games are scum game.

This game, your vibes were definitely in the second category.

[Lukewarm]

And then there are games where you don't feel that way: Those being Control (I spectated that game), Isekai, and Bloodstained. 2/3 of those games are scum game.

This game, your vibes were definitely in the second category.

I also don't know that I have a great metric to sort you once we are in this category, because I town read you as scum in Isekai, I scum read you as scum in control, and I town read you as town in blood stained.

So, when it feels like you are in the first category, my read on you feels very confident, but when you are in the second category, I feel like I am less so.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, do you believe that I have softer stances when I roll mafia?

This is going to be a very unsatisfactory answer, but I don't have a conscious metric by which I read you. But there are some games that just scream at me that you are town despite you getting semi-widely scum read, because you feel exactly the same way you did in our first game.

First game being Divide and Conquer, following games that screamed at me that you were town being Shakespeare and Web of Lies (prior to your FN reveal).

And then there are games where you don't feel that way: Those being Control (I spectated that game), Isekai, and Bloodstained. 2/3 of those games are scum game.

This game, your vibes were definitely in the second category.

So no you don't?

Its not something that I have ever thought about, so I don't have an opinion either way unless I go do a lot of meta on you.

[Lukewarm]

In control, Noraa was able to read Dunn super well.

How long did it take noraa to form their read in that game Malakittens?

Post #610 (isolation #27) » Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:29 pm

Noraa replaces GrandpaMo.

Post #316 (isolation #28) » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:38 am

Lmao i am literally on page four. PAGE FOUR.
dunn is town. LMAO
LMAO
LMAO
LMAOOOOOOOOOO

Post Post #317 (isolation #29) » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:39 am

dunn is SOOOOOOOOO TOWN. like soooooooooooooooo town.

Post #318 (isolation #30) » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:43 am

dunn is so towny that doctors should be on him tonight. he's like out of the world towny.

Approximately 2 hours and 4 pages

[Lukewarm]

Then you have no business trying to eliminate me on day 1

I mean, my only options are you, noraa, and ceph. I don't gotta be 1,000% sure you are scum to think you are the best of my very limited options.

[Lukewarm]

Then you have no business trying to eliminate me on day 1

I mean, my only options are you, noraa, and ceph. I don't gotta be 1,000% sure you are scum to think you are the best of my very limited options.

[Lukewarm]

And I am really sure that Dunn is aware of that, and that is not a good faith argument.

[Lukewarm]

I liked Ceph's more recent posts. I could see the cog wheels turning wrt his read on me at least around the time I logged off last night. But also, I don't really have the means to move the mountain that Fire has set up towards insuring that Cehp stays in the game. So he is only technically an options towards elim, unless someone has a convincing scum case on Ceph to change fire's mind.

[Lukewarm]

I think that Dunn is more likely to flip scum then most people in the game, and is distinctly in his scum range. All independent of the preflip stuff.

See him in my scum team hero solve in post 582 before the post that made me start thinking about Datisi's post 587.

[Lukewarm]

I think that Dunn is more likely to flip scum then most people in the game, and is distinctly in his scum range. All independent of the preflip stuff.

See him in my scum team hero solve in post 582 before the post that made me start thinking about Datisi's post 587.

This is in reponse to Ydra's 833

[Lukewarm]

fire can you not accept that offer quite yet?

im going to be leaving soon and will likely not be able to be super caught up until monday. i currently see no reason not to accept besides that you asked me to wait, i want ceph over all the other remaining gentlemen

is there anything specific you were waiting for

[Lukewarm]

Fire is my strongest town read atm. Phone posting, but I am roughly at

Fire,
Nora, Ydra, Mala,
Andante, Ceph
-----
Datisi
----
Prism, one of (myko, enchant), but never both
Dunn

[Lukewarm]

Oh. Bell is to the left of Noraa

[Lukewarm]

Just reached the end of page 31, and I am realizing that Dunn was not trying to make a point about noraa alignment with the "prove it" line of dialogue

I originally read it as that.

[Lukewarm]

In control, Noraa was able to read Dunn super well.

How long did it take noraa to form their read in that game Malakittens?

It was early, but wasnt til like D2-3 until they really went after you

HOLD UP. this is because dunn was under the protection of a hydra. i did not look very carefully at the slot because of that. The MOMENT dunn reepped in, i pretty much started tunneling in like 5-7 pages.

This is an interesting take. I don't believe you and I have ever played together, what gives you any impression on what size fish I am ? Or that giving me time will make a difference?

Is this something that you thought about before the day started, or was this your gut reaction to the day opening and Ydra's opening posts?

I think people should pair up based on their posting frequency. It doesnt make sense to pair a high frequency poster with a low frequency poster. it would be "wasting" the high frequency posts because pts can make sorting easier a lot of the time.

This approach seems so arbitrary. Is that something that has been done in other Dance Games?

[This is my first real dance game - just a marathon one time, and those are wild]

Asking a bunch of questions that don't lead anywhere is a generic scumtell, and this is what Lukewarm is doing here

I have completed my iso dives of all of the eligible ladies, and I have an issue. I did not find any scum reads

I like Ydra, Dats, and Fire all as town leans.

Enchant and Mala are both pretty close to null, but just barely perceptively higher then null for not seeming to care how their dip in and dip out would look.

Lukewarm doesn't have any scumreads here

luke is the scummiest of the bunch to me currently

But this definitely makes me feel less inclined to pair with datisi now

This looks bad too, they care too much about how their own partner reads them and we haven't even gotten past the first phase yet. As a reminder, they still don't have scumreads at this point in time, except for maybe mykonium who they talk about right after they pair

Re:Nora's read on Dunn.


I have thoughts but they feel convoluted.

I am not consciously scum reading Dunn, but I am definitely not town reading him either.

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is, but I do feel like there is a difference between this game and one where i was ready to hard defend him like in say Web of Lies or Shakespeare.

I kind of like the fact that Noraa is picking up a difference there as well, since web of lies we were both ready to go to bat for Dunn, and this neither of us are town reading him this game.

It is making me rethink my Noraa scum read. Which is annoying because I don't have enough of them as it is :/

In this post they show they have a scumread on noraa from before this point, and this is who he needs to be scumreading here to survive to the next phase. I mentioned that it was looking like either Lukewarm or Noraa were being left out at this point, and this shift in reads benefits lukewarm because if scum he can get noraa eliminated after.

i have multiple issues with lukewarm's 625

first, the minor nitpick is that the "he said he's gonna do isos which opens him up for doing a new push" is weird because we're deciding who gets left out. i already had the bases down for who of the gents i could push to get left. i don't need to be doing a weird 180 redoing isos announcement for that.

then, the reasons for my 587 bothering him is ???. yeah, i didn't towncase dunn or call him town. because i had already said i liked some of his posts prior to that and because i was responding to noraa's case of him, which i said i was gonna do. why would i be dropping a towncase there?

but probably my biggest problem is the "and I think that a scum or a town flip points is enlightening towards both Datisi and Noraa" part - like, he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

actually, now that i type it out, i do feel like my instinct omgus reaction to the shade of our pair is not as good of a point as i first thought, but calling me scum over saying it's not ai for dunn to be talking the way he is feels bad faith and reminds me of lukewarm in that guardians game

not reading the pedits

Datisis points out here that Luke intends to have Noraa voted out on my town flip

he spent the entire post talking about how dunn is scum and partnered with me, but IF dunn were to flip town, that would say something about both me and noraa. and it's interesting how it's not explicitly said in the post, but the feel i get is that if dunn greens, that noraa is scum. which like, the fact that he didn't outright say it feels like he doesn't wanna draw attention to that part immediately

I actually typed out a more explicit version of

Town Dunn -> Scum Noraa, but then deleted it because I realized that I don't really know if that is true. I think I would need to reevaluate her there.

So, I actually think

Town Dunn-> Town Dats, and a need to reevaluate Noraa.
Scum Dunn -> Town Noraa, and a need to reevaluate you.

They say the opposite here but it feels ingenuine. How will they reevaluate noraa considering the reasoning that Luke is following noraa is "noraa's feelies". I'm really curious if it is even possible to justify noraa as town if luke believes what he has been typing so far.

Kinda want to respond to 795, but feel like it should wait til I am at my computer.

[Lukewarm]

I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today

[Lukewarm]

Good Marrow friends. I promised a response to 795, and I hath returned to deliver.

Asking a bunch of questions that don't lead anywhere is a generic scumtell, and this is what Lukewarm is doing here

If I had a dollar for every time someone accused me of asking/answering (in other people's opinions) pointless questions, regardless of my alignment, I would have some number of dollars. And the way this is structured so that it is **technically** correct, makes me feel like Dunn is aware of that.

Like, Dunn knows that he can't say that *Luke* doing it is scummy, so he has to qualifier it that it is a "generic scumtell." Dunn and I have played in at least 6 games together that I can name off of the top of my head, but he is turning to generic scum tells as a meta way to drop shade vs saying that this is or isn't something that town Luke does.
-

I have completed my iso dives of all of the eligible ladies, and I have an issue. I did not find any scum reads

I like Ydra, Dats, and Fire all as town leans.

Enchant and Mala are both pretty close to null, but just barely perceptively higher then null for not seeming to care how their dip in and dip out would look.

Lukewarm doesn't have any scumreads here

I did not have any scum reads in the remaining eligible ladies.

luke is the scummiest of the bunch to me currently

But this definitely makes me feel less inclined to pair with datisi now

This looks bad too, they care too much about how their own partner reads them and we haven't even gotten past the first phase yet. As a reminder, they still don't have scumreads at this point in time, except for maybe mykonium who they talk about right after they pair

The mechanic is that right after the night kill, the leftover partner can offer to dance with anyone. So, I realized that pairing with someone who had me as their top scum read meant walking into a "sway their read on me over night, or die promtly" situation. Which, surprise, does not sound fun.

As a reminder, Dunn is either twisting what I said in 267 to create a narrative, or he just wasn't reading very closely while "sorting" me.

In this post they show they have a scumread on noraa from before this point, and this is who he needs to be scumreading here to survive to the next phase. I mentioned that it was looking like either Lukewarm or Noraa were being left out at this point, and this shift in reads benefits lukewarm because if scum he can get noraa eliminated after.

Oh look. The conclusion he was trying to build up to by saying I didn't have scum reads before. That I was then faking having been scum reading noraa, in order to look like i was shifting reads. I am sure that Dunn, if he thought that was true, took the time to look back at my ISO to see if I really was scum reading Noraa before that point. But maybe not.

Before doing my iso dives of the gentlemen, I would be inclined to leave Noraa behind.

I would also say, that scum reading Dunn was not the scum read I needed her to survive. Noraa was. He says that it was looking like me or noraa was gonna go, but from my pov, all signs were pointing to noraa. So, No. Dropping my scum read on noraa, and falling over myself to paint Dunn as scum, was not the tactical choice I would have made if I were scum

(unless maybe I was scum with Noraa? But Dunn later argues that he doesn't think that we are scum together

Datisis points out here that Luke intends to have Noraa voted out on my town flip

I will concede to both Datisi and Dunn, that that post does look that way. Because I did originally think how all powerful a Dunn flip was, and I distinctly typed it out as such. But, as I typed it out, I realized that I think Noraa might still be town if there was a town!Dunn flip. So, I went back and edited out the section that said that a town!dunn flip would make Noraa scum. So, that line that Datisi pointed out did have that as an implication as it was missed in that editing decision.

[Lukewarm]

I see that Mala accepted, but that that acceptance was not accepted. Sad.

[Lukewarm]

So no, you can't prove it

This really doesn't sit well with me. Because, in Web of Lies, Noraa was absolutely falling all over themselves to spout how they were the Dunn whisperer, with an impeccable ability to read Dunn. And Dunn never said anything to imply that that was false. And then Noraa was right that game.

Regardless of Noraa's actual ability, it is fairly clear that Noraa views themselves to have this ability and that Dunn is aware that Noraa view themselves that way - and both of those things can be seen in a game where both Noraa and Dunn flipped town.

So it is strange for Dunn to then go to "Prove that you can read me" which just seems like a discredit angle. But it is also an irrelevant angle if he thinks that Noraa is scum.

in web of lies, was noraa consistently townreading dunn?

also, why are you turning the conversation into "dunn told noraa to prove ze can read him" when dunn was telling noraa to prove he gives out softer stances as scum than as town?

Answer 1

Yes.

Spoiler:

In control, Noraa was able to read Dunn super well.

How long did it take noraa to form their read in that game Malakittens?

Post #610 (isolation #27) » Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:29 pm

Noraa replaces GrandpaMo.

Post #316 (isolation #28) » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:38 am

Lmao i am literally on page four. PAGE FOUR.
dunn is town. LMAO
LMAO
LMAO
LMAOOOOOOOOOO

Post Post #317 (isolation #29) » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:39 am

dunn is SOOOOOOOOO TOWN. like soooooooooooooooo town.

Post #318 (isolation #30) » Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:43 am

dunn is so towny that doctors should be on him tonight. he's like out of the world towny.

Approximately 2 hours and 4 pages

These were actually pulled from Web of Lies, and not control.

Ze he repped in during night 1, read 4 pages, declared Dunn so ridiculously obviously town after reading 4 pages of the game, and kept the extreme energy about it to the point of it feeling like if anyone even considered scum reading dunn, ze might kill your puppy in retribution. And was falling over zirself to yell at anyone who shaded Dunn all the way up to him later being revealed as a Friendly Neighbor, so she didn't need to anymore.

Answer 2)

Because after seeing this line

To be clear, I am saying they are either lying or misinformed, and that what they are claiming is untrue

I thought that he was ramping up to calling zir scum faking an ability to read him, and I was arguing that that is a dumb reason to think that Noraa is scum. Because Noraa clearly believes in their metric, whether Dunn thinks it is a good metric or not.

So, I was responding under that reading until I got to the point that Noraa outright asked him if he thought that ze was scum trying to push him.

[Lukewarm]

Also, ze's stated metric in this game, is consistent to the metric they presented briefly in web of lies.

Dunn is SOOOOOOOO TOWNY when he's town like genuinely it's like night and day.
like his scum game is just sooooooooo floaty and nothing nothing
but his town game like you read like two posts and ur like holy shit dunn so towny

If you consider "floaty and nothing nothing" to be consistent with "soft stances," which I do.

[Lukewarm]

I'll put it on record that I don't think bell is mafia

Agreed

[Lukewarm]

Prism, one of (myko, enchant), but never both
Dunn

should get policyflipped

omgus

[Lukewarm]

Fire is my strongest town read atm.

i need to hear more about this nuclear take.

Okay. So Fire.

I put a lot of stock in visible meta diving with out a discernable purpose.

Like, I have seen scum do a meta dive in order to paint a townie as scum. That is a purpose. I can imagine scum doing a meta dive to paint a partner as town. I can imagine scum trying to do a meta dive to make themselves look good. But in general, I don't expect seemingly pointless meta to come from scum.

There is an individual side of this, because I would not necessarily town bin exactly fferyllt for this behavior lol. She is self aware that her town meta is meta heavy, and so yeah, I think that she migt try to weave that in for that reason (but even with her, I feel like she would be more likely to try and draw useful conclusions rather then just meta for the sake of meta. But (I believe) fire is a newbie, not even an alt, and therefore does not have to play into something like that.

But then looking at what fire has done wrt meta.

Spoiler:

i do have one tentative scumread which is myko but i wanted to check out some past games since idk them as a player

They’re very serious face and then doubled down on the serious faceness.
As everyone knows there is only so serious face a scum will be early game because they don’t know how people will react to their resting serious face. They’re very serious about this. If people don’t post content 100% of the time then they’re scum: serious face.

Starring: serious face.

idk i looked at some past games and they are very serious face early as scum. probably, idk, they seem to have not played in a few years

You were going to read up on my previous games to see if what you found was a scumtell on me. With my multi year break, I'm curious to see what similarities you found. If I'm being rather cynical I think I'm in your scumpile because Bell is your top town read while they are my top scum read. In which case I'd be interested to see how a. Bell is supposedly town and b. how this has to do anything with my allignment.

yea once i saw you had taken a multi year break i was less excited about that idea, since people change. but your most recent game i found was a scumgame that made it clear you are not at all out of your scumrange here, and the next one i found was a towngame that made me think it likely isn't just a personality thing that im picking up on

i do think your read on bell is relevant to my read on you, mostly that I think your read there is made up. and several of your posts, including the ones on bell, feel like they're made more for the sake of looking like you're doing something rather than actual solving where you care about the results of what you're sorting

He gave himself a homework assignemnt. And then did nothing with it. There was enough here to show that he did in fact do some meta on him, but then he never uses it to drive somewhere, because he felt like his conclusions were weak.

I think that it is clear that the purpose of the meta dive was not to push Myko, because he didn't ever actually use anything to push it.
But also, I don't think that this was with the purpuse of trying to get town read either, because otherwise 249 would have come without prompting. Instead, he was not setting himself up to look good with it, he was quietly walking away from it with 208.

----

Then he says he did some meta on Dunn to in post 710, and his conclusion later ends up similar to my own impression of Dunn, so i buy that he also looked into Dunn

dunn seems a little sharper and more insightful than that usually

Sharp and insightful would in fact be how I describe him.

----

Stepping away from the fact that he keeps giving himself meta homework, 859 also makes me think he is town. There is a level of nuance to the Dunn v Luke debate, that he didn't really need. If Dunn and I are both town, scum!Fire could stay out of it. But instead, I see his read shifting on the situation as posts arise. From liking Noraa's case on Dunn, to liking Dunn's initial response in 710, to this take against Dunn in 859.

And if dunn is his partner, then there I doubt he would be making a nuanced stance against Dunn.

---

There were a couple smaller things that I liked, but those were the big ones, and this is already a massive post.

[Lukewarm]

So you're arguing based on something that didn't happen?

This is a bad faith, scummy question.

[Lukewarm]

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.

To be frank, I don't have strong tangible reasons to scum read you, and it is more of a gamestate read. Which is why you were presented as the least scummy person in my reads list. Just below the null line.

I did find your pairing with Andante out of character in a way that left me cautious of you, and I was not seeing any particular reason to town read you, so you were largely floating in the Null range based on your earlier play.

Buut, at the start of this game, no one was pinging me as scummy except Noraa. And this is a game with 3 scum in it - up until the Myko/Enchant pairing which still does not sit well with me.

So, starting a game with not enough people pinging me as scummy, I started thinking that there must be pretty good scum players on the scum team. And congratulations, you are the top of my internal perception of people's scum games in this player list. So, that pulled you from the Null range and down into my hero solve.

You announced that you were not going to be around, and then you were not around. So, no, my read did not shift on you at that point.

And then once you came back, I am your strongest scum read, so, not changing my perception of you for the better either, given that I was your strongest day 1 scum read in both games I played against scum!you, and when you were town you very loudly and accurately town read me. So, not quite a (shit, I am unable to recall the word where you are going to read someone solely based on their ability. But sub in that word in this sentence) -- So, not quite a ___ blank read, because I started a little low on you, but you missing that bar isn't changing anything for me.

[Lukewarm]

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.

Looking at this question (and their reaction to me having them in the bottom half of my reads in general) also gives me heebie-jeebies, but in a convoluted way that I don't know would be convincing to anyone else, or useful to try and articulate.

[Lukewarm]

Weird that your "gamestate read" ignored all knowledge of the gamestates I actually create, as though I don't sit there and club and choke all life out of the town for weeks on end with tone, fake encouragement, traffic control, etc.

Are you looking for an apology for me taking your post about needing to be away from the game at face value?

Because, if you were scum, you were already locked in. If you had a partner who was either already locked in, or was a lady, they were also good to go for the day. And if Dunn was a partner, I think that he would be someone that you would trust to take care of himself, and at the time that you needed to step away from the game, no one was really scum reading him except Noraa.

So, if you had something happening IRL, I don't think that you would have seen this game as in dire need of you to fix it.

----

I am not sure why you think that I should see you announce that you need to be away from the game, and then you be away from the game, and then I town lock you.

[Lukewarm]

I'm still pretty sure Luke is town tbh like, how does maf put in this level of effort??

I am a high effort scum player.

Thank you for your town read, but I will politely ask you to town read me instead for being low impact/effort at the start of the day. Thank you!

[Lukewarm]

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.

Looking at this question (and their reaction to me having them in the bottom half of my reads in general) also gives me heebie-jeebies, but in a convoluted way that I don't know would be convincing to anyone else, or useful to try and articulate.

Search engine function says it's actually a linguistic towntell

4/5 games, all town. Haven't checked for it against my alts but wouldn't surprise me to see zero, very situational phrase to use as scum.

It was less about the usage of "I would love to" and more about the absolute refusal to believe that I could possibly be thinking that you are scum in this game. Since, you know, you did exactly that in our last game

Cool. I think the read on me is dogshit and I'm willing to call you on it.

[Lukewarm]

Ah yes, the aggressive style that was explicitly intended to meta/tonally match my town ones in Forest Fire and Slaughter Hour. Very spooky.

I am not sure what you are trying to point me at, but frankly this whole discussion has been dropping my read on you even further.

I don't know exactly what meta you want me to be drawing lines to, but I am comparing it to my personal experiences with you.

Those being Forest Fire, where I started scum reading you because of your interactions with Infinity, and your response was to town read me and say how you can see how town!luke could reach those conclusions. And then Divide and Conquer, where the moment notty and I started voicing suspicion on you laughed at the mere idea that we could possibly be suspecting you in that moment. And even in the post game, I got the feeling that you were carefully crafting that response against us because you thought it would get you town read.

And in this game, I started voicing suspicion on you, and you laughed at the mere idea that I could possibly be suspecting you in this moment.

[Lukewarm]

Hmm. I am notnsire if I think this is scum theater or not.

If it is, good job guys. It looks fairly natural

[Lukewarm]

Hmm. I am notnsire if I think this is scum theater or not.

If it is, good job guys. It looks fairly natural

this kinda feels like a post that someone makes when they're like "oh right im supposed to be scumreading both of these people i shall comment on this"

and not as much like the kind of post someone makes if they are actually thinking this

I actively want to change my playstyle to one, where I don't put literally all of my thoughts into words in a post, but then whenever I try to do that, I feel like it is met with someone saying it looks like fake thoughts, and then I end up posting the long winded version anyways. Mafia is a hard game.

My thoughts upon reading the back and forth was initially that it looked fairly natural, and it made me question "Do I think that these two people could be partnered."

But on the other hand, I can see the strategic benefit of doing this if they are together. If they think that there is a reasonable chance that Dunn might go down, make themselves look unpartnered to help Prism go the distance.

I flipped back through Dunn's iso to see where this sudden Prism should die train started, and was surpised at how sudden it was. There was shade on Prism early, but not a strong one.

I wouldn't be voting for you right now if that was an option, I'm just skeptical

And then literally nothing else about Prism until the start of this back and forth

I think that the Prism-Andante pair should be the next full pair elimination during the 7 day long phase which happens after both mafia kill somebody and the unpaired player has a chance to replace a partner

Prism major scum vibes, Andante decent equity

And I also feel like there was a decent bit of Dunn's reasoning to push Prism seemed like it was parroting what I was saying as I started talking about why I was scum reading her. Particularly post 1030. Which seems weird since Dunn so far has seemed of the opinion that I am incredibly scummy, and should be killed today. Seeing me make these arguments against Prism, and then him apparently feeling similarly about Prism, but has given no outward indication that that was then being used to think about my alignment.

So, initial reading made me question if they could be scum together, but on further thought, I could see them doing it as a strategic choice.

If it is scum theater, it is good scum theater.

[Lukewarm]

Weird that your "gamestate read" ignored all knowledge of the gamestates I actually create, as though I don't sit there and club and choke all life out of the town for weeks on end with tone, fake encouragement, traffic control, etc.

Are you looking for an apology for me taking your post about needing to be away from the game at face value?

Because, if you were scum, you were already locked in. If you had a partner who was either already locked in, or was a lady, they were also good to go for the day. And if Dunn was a partner, I think that he would be someone that you would trust to take care of himself, and at the time that you needed to step away from the game, no one was really scum reading him except Noraa.

So, if you had something happening IRL, I don't think that you would have seen this game as in dire need of you to fix it.

----

I am not sure why you think that I should see you announce that you need to be away from the game, and then you be away from the game, and then I town lock you.

I disagree, and I think when you try to point to yourself as town in this game all you have come up with so far is meta arguments about how you would play this differently if you were mafia

And the above is not convincing to me

1030 feels like a more consise way of saying what I was trying to say 985.

[Lukewarm]

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is

I am actually at a peak low in confidence right now in general. but i just ugh i dont know. like im being tunneled and it's affecting my read on the game in general. and dunn is one of the few people i feel like i can read and theres just a lot of internal paranoia because of the game state and trying to read dunn.

i have a lot of worries about this read because i struggle with my own thought process a lot of the times. like what's going through my head, i kid you not, is like
dunn has to be scum
what if im pushing dunn because i want to live another day
what if dunn isnt scum and then i die tomorrow because i mislimmed them
no no dunn has to be scum
but dunn could maybe say that as town
what if dunn's meta completely changed
what if im being overconfident
no no dunn is scum
oh wait i could maybe see town dunn saying that
oh my god people are agreeeing with me, so im wrong right
wait but thats not a good metric
agh maybe im overconfident
no dunn is scum

Can someone with meta not from a year ago weigh in on how frequently these seemingly over the top performances are from Noraa as town? This one made me raise my eyebrow a bit.

I want to say that I have seen it come from town Noraa before. In particular, similar lines wrt when they are widely scum read. I even started looking through the games that I thought it came from to point you at it, but I am now unable to find it.

@Noraa, do you know of a town game where you made similar posts?

[Lukewarm]

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is

I am actually at a peak low in confidence right now in general. but i just ugh i dont know. like im being tunneled and it's affecting my read on the game in general. and dunn is one of the few people i feel like i can read and theres just a lot of internal paranoia because of the game state and trying to read dunn.

i have a lot of worries about this read because i struggle with my own thought process a lot of the times. like what's going through my head, i kid you not, is like
dunn has to be scum
what if im pushing dunn because i want to live another day
what if dunn isnt scum and then i die tomorrow because i mislimmed them
no no dunn has to be scum
but dunn could maybe say that as town
what if dunn's meta completely changed
what if im being overconfident
no no dunn is scum
oh wait i could maybe see town dunn saying that
oh my god people are agreeeing with me, so im wrong right
wait but thats not a good metric
agh maybe im overconfident
no dunn is scum

Can someone with meta not from a year ago weigh in on how frequently these seemingly over the top performances are from Noraa as town? This one made me raise my eyebrow a bit.

I want to say that I have seen it come from town Noraa before. In particular, similar lines wrt when they are widely scum read. I even started looking through the games that I thought it came from to point you at it, but I am now unable to find it.

@Noraa, do you know of a town game where you made similar posts?

Okay, I ended up reading Forest Fire in its entirety because I was worried that what I thought I remembered coming from town Noraa, actually came from my 1 scum game with her. I did not see it there either, so now I am really unsure where it happened.

Also, reading my own play from a year ago was wild, felt like a whole different person.

[Lukewarm]

yeah marci in shakespeare

Do you mean Tarot?

Marci was town in Shakespere

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I ended up reading Forest Fire in its entirety

Seeing the unexpected similarities with Ydra's entraces in both games makes me feel better about town reading her entrance this game lol

Subject: Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

I ROLLED TOWN THIS TIME

TOWN YDRASSE IN A DANCE GAME REAL NOT FAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lukewarm]

Raise your hand if you have ever felt bad about catching scum through dayplay

Rereading Forest Fire also reminded me of the one time that this happened too lol

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Subject: Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

So I can actually address my paranoia in regards to T3, because our most recent game ended. I hard accused T3 of being scum on page 2 of the thread, because his posts we so different from how they were normally when he is town.

Later in the day, I did a meta dive on him to compare scum games to town games, and the difference was clear. And I explained that in the thread, and he was flipped Day 1 as scum. I felt bad that I caught him so early (like page 2 seemed excessive lol), and I ended up apologizing, explaining the differences, and even explained ways he could keep me from spotting him as scum in the future. <- that was like 5 days before this game started.

So, I am leaning town on him, but I am also aware that I told him how I spot him as scum less then a week before this game started.

[Lukewarm]

My scum read on Prism has only grown stronger. Her approach here is very similar to her apporach in her scum game, and reading Forest Fire, where she was town, only highlighted the differences more imo.

Definitely my strongest scum read now.

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, do you believe that I have softer stances when I roll mafia?

This is going to be a very unsatisfactory answer, but I don't have a conscious metric by which I read you.

But there are some games that just scream at me that you are town despite you getting semi-widely scum read, because you feel exactly the same way you did in our first game.

First game being Divide and Conquer, following games that screamed at me that you were town being Shakespeare and Web of Lies (prior to your FN reveal).

And then there are games where you don't feel that way: Those being Control (I spectated that game), Isekai, and Bloodstained. 2/3 of those games are scum game.

This game, your vibes were definitely in the second category.

I am very skeptical of this read looking at all three of the cited towngames but I'll circle back later when I'm not trying to catch up.

Would be a shame if I talked about my feelings about reading Dunn in a prior thread during the post game.

Yeah but Noraa locktowned you after reading like 5 of your posts and Luke says he had u as town as well

I just wanna know the key

I don't know that I have a firm grasp of how to read Dunn, but I am trying to lol.

I feel like I am getting a little better, I think I have defending him when others were pushing for his miselim in our last like 3 games together.

I will say that the notion that absent Dunn = scum Dunn is completely trash, and no one should use that as a metric to scum read him ever

[Lukewarm]

I have been particularly critical of reads on me for as long as I can remember, but I want to make it a point to note that in the event you are somehow town, that is probably the single worst read I have had given on me since making this account. Not even close.

I would like to make it a point to note that in the event you are somehow town, you have me listed as your strongest scum read so back at you I guess.

[Lukewarm]

This is going to be a very unsatisfactory answer, but I don't have a conscious metric by which I read you.
------
I don't know that I have a firm grasp of how to read Dunn, but I am trying to lol.

But there are some games that just scream at me that you are town despite you getting semi-widely scum read, because you feel exactly the same way you did in our first game.

First game being Divide and Conquer, following games that screamed at me that you were town being Shakespeare and Web of Lies (prior to your FN reveal).
------
I feel like I am getting a little better, I think I have defending him when others were pushing for his miselim in our last like 3 games together.

If you cannot see that these are near 1 for 1 posts of dialogue, then all communication has broken down, and I don't really know what else to say

[Lukewarm]

I just woke up today, read a fuckton of pages, argued a whole bunch of shit, and at the very end of it decided to randomly receipt-check a one line vague read against three different games while knowing (as hypothetical informed scum) that it was already legitimate

You are also the only scum player that I am aware of that keeps a notes PT for you games separate from the scum PT, which you use to commentate your scum games, meaning you willingly force yourself to keep up with the main thread, scum PT, and a notes thread. And you appear to go slot by slot and think about each person's potential reactions to every move that you are going to make.

Suggesting that you should be being town read for effort despite being possibly the highest effort player that I have ever encountered (regardless of alignment) is frankly the worst take I have ever seen you make, and the apparent lack of self awareness between this post and you earlier saying that I should have town binned your for being away from the thread is fairly egregious.

[Lukewarm]

You gave reasoning here that you didn't in the town game and that is the part that Prism has a problem with

The line:

But there are some games that just scream at me that you are town despite you getting semi-widely scum read, because you feel exactly the same way you did in our first game.

Is not an opinion you have previously expressed, and in fact it looked like you were talking about activity from the full quote

You seem to be approaching this conversation in a way to "gotcha" me on a technicality of the way that I expressed my self in different conversations in different contexts were not identical.

In the other conversation, I didn't say that I would go to bat to defend you because you are inactive. I explicitly say so in a later post in that conversation

I don't use this [activity levels] to read him -
But I will laugh at anyone who ever tells me that low activity dunn is scum dunn forever now.

Do you have some kind of point to make on how or why this would even me more likely to be scum, or are we just dancing around until I stumble over my words and give you something to latch on to?

[Lukewarm]

I see you counterpointed it with a quote from Web of Lies about not using activity explicitly to read him. I'll revisit in the morning. I think 1075 is mostly fine as-is, since it is primarily questioning my own intent behind the read while you are so worried I am playing "Gotcha!".

Am currently responding to 1075, but wanted to say that the "gotcha" comment was more related to the way that Dunn chimed into the conversation

[Lukewarm]

...Do you understand why, hypothetically if I am town, the two quotes from D&C and Shakespeare, each of which cite a shared concrete behavior from Dunn, with a second provided in Shakespeare, gives me real pause and concern about the legitimacy of the more vague "just screams at me" where Dunnstral's alignment appears to be somewhere in between a bowel movement and divine revelation?

Note that "firm grasp [holistically] of reading Dunn" does not mean that you are YOLO gutreading, it meets you are not completely confident or certain of what tells are decisive. I am very happy to tell you what you meant given that you cited concrete actions & inactions in the games.

Frankly, no. The whole conversation seems incredibly convoluted.

Luke said that he does not really have a firm paradigm by which he reads dunn. BUT, in this older game, Luke said "Dunn ghosted this game, and I think he is likely town for it"

And for some reason, that supposedly concerned you? That I don't have a firm grasp in a general sense, but had clear reasons in specific instances?

And then, what does it even have to do with this game? Did he ghost this one, and you feel like I am therefore judging him differently then I did in that game? No, clearly thinking that him ghosting the game makes me inclined to think that he is town has no bearing on this game, where that action did not happen.

And the second quote you pulled, was one where I was talking about his interactions with a flipped scum, and that I didn't think that it was done in a way that made sense if that was his partner. Which once again, what would that even have to do with this one?

Like it frankly feels like you are arguing that since in this game, I did not take the time to detail reasons that I town read him in prior games, I am scummy, which is very ???? to me.

[Lukewarm]

I am interpreting 1079 as a scumclaim. I will be completely shocked if that is somehow a legitimate thought process, and it will probably be the first time I ever blame someone else for my own wrong vote.

Hey remember when I said that Prism's approach to this game is very similar to her approach in her scum game.

[Lukewarm]

I am interpreting 1079 as a scumclaim. I will be completely shocked if that is somehow a legitimate thought process, and it will probably be the first time I ever blame someone else for my own wrong vote.

Hey remember when I said that Prism's approach to this game is very similar to her approach in her scum game.

I really do not like what Esther has given either, I don't know if she is just annoyed because I've never pushed her before or what, but I feel confident that 391 is a borderline scumclaim.

We are definitely not taking the game in the same way but even with the description you're giving this seems completely unsalvageable.

Will still revisit later but yeah.

[Lukewarm]

You again willfully ignore that my D&C push was explicitly and very exactly matched tonally & stylistically to pushes I have made as town over the last calendar year. I will readily own up to the tone being almost identical, and I have highlighted my agreement repeatedly.

Just an incredible amount of bad faith argumentation.

I am not sure how to read this any other way then "I am so good, you can't possibly scum read me in good faith" - which is both very unconvincing, and also feels like a bad faith argument in itself.

I'll scum read you when I see you play in a way that looks like your scum game while simultaneously being distinctly differently then you did in our town game, until proven otherwise. Not going to ignore my own reads because you apparently have such am amazingly large ego.

I'm getting off of here. Good night.

[Lukewarm]

Ah yes, the aggressive style that was explicitly intended to meta/tonally match my town ones in Forest Fire and Slaughter Hour. Very spooky.

This links to two posts describing stylistically how my push was carefully crafted to mirror the tone/meta of my town shoves.

Maybe I don't think you're are as good at meta matching your tone as you think you are

Your tone in Divide and Conquer felt similar to Tris's game, and similar to this game (after you returned from being away). But literally all three games felt very different to me then your tone in Forest Fire, the town game I have played with you.

I felt a distinct tone difference across those three games where I know your alignment. So no, I am not gonna just accept you declaring that your tone is unreadable at face value.

[Lukewarm]

So, we have actual metrics to work with here. Dunn's posts: 24. Total Posts: 505-668 (probably the most fair somewhere in the middle). Number of players: 13.

Is Lukewarm's statement factually correct as they know it or not? This isn't theoretical, there is a real answer to this question.

You are completely ignoring the fact that I have also previously said that I don't keep up with that because I don't really buy the spread sheet as a good way to read you, despite it being a fun exercise.

I don't use this to read him. I have not actually run the numbers on any of his games since.

But sure, lets run the numbers in that spread sheet. I still have it laying around.

24 posts out of 505 is 62% of posts as a percent of the playerlist, which is flagged as red. (and a higher then other scum games on the sheet - Isekai and True Love)
Being more generous, 24 posts out of 668 is 47%. That is still flagged as red in my sheet (everything over 40% was red), but objectively I likely would have called that a Null result, despite it being higher then every town game on the sheet.

And right now you are at 118 of 1092, which is 140%, which is dark red, and is the new high record on the sheet.

I did not ever look at the sheet, but as of post 505, the sheet would have called you scum. And right now, it definitely does.

[Lukewarm]

I guess it's fair to say that I never ghosted in this game then.

I have to say that this post, quite literally made me laugh after being incredibly frustrated just moments before.

I am truly going to bed now, because I would like to leave the thread on this high note.

Good night.

[Lukewarm]

I slept for a couple of hours, and woke up, and was kinda thinking about earlier.

@Prism. While frustrated, I feel like I crossed a line into being rude to you, and I wanted to apologize. Don't feel the need to respond to this in anyway, but I didn't want to wait til post game to say it since that is so far away.

[Lukewarm]

Unhappy. I opened the game to type a coherent case against Dunn while not frustrated, and while I was able to sit down and get it out on my own time. Feels hella pointless now.

Might check for a while. Hope I don't die.

[Lukewarm]

it sounds like I'm just super behind... sorry yall :/

ya there's lots of useful content you havent seen you might wanna try reading it when you can

after what you said last night i am HOWLING but you did work through it, she can too

i think andante has missed more of the game than the part i was struggling with but kinda fair yeah

Oh, I read your original post as sarcastic lmao

[Lukewarm]

I am still without proper internet and have about 15 pages to read properly tomorrow, but I did think this was the situation we were going to end up in before the weekend.

It is not ideal and I have my ideas about the final choice and choices before, but I don't think it took any weird manipulations after my proposal to get where we are now. If scum are in the last couple of pairs I don't think they had to do too much.

This seems accurate to the Cephrir/Fire pair, but there was a lot going on whether dunn was gonna get paired or not.

Any reason why you announced that you had thoughts, but did not voice any?

[Lukewarm]

I think mala could be scum. This is the to extent of my scum hunting in this game for me today methinks.
Any questions?

This being your first take of the game is an interesting amount of disregard for your own survival, since Mala is the one who gets to chose if you die today, and has already shown interest in dancing with me, so this approach seems very likely to result in your own death.

[Lukewarm]

I was pretty sure Noraa was town before the rep out, but I am less sure now. But also, not supposed to talk about rep outs, so not sure I can put thoughts into words without breaking rules.

[Lukewarm]

Luke r u townreading mala?

Not my strongest read, but vaguely yeah

[Lukewarm]

luke i think whoever us pairs with mala should leave. I would try to convince u that mala is scum but....i don't think i am the right one to do so. Also its a gut read.

Pretty sure ur going to go to next round and i think ur town.

If you are town. And you think that Mala is scum. And you think that I am town. And you think you are dying, and I am going on.

Why would you say you're not the right one to try and convince me?

The person about to be proven town is also like the person I could take their case at face value.

[Lukewarm]

Guess I was misinformed about the rep out rule.

Basically, the rep out felt tactical. But if noraa truly felt this way about me, then there was not a tactical benefit for them to rep out here as town.

lukewarm is like the most transparent town in the world.

Like, in their mind, one of us was dying, and either way it was a dead townie, so it didn't

really

matter.

Repping out here just seemed very antithetical to my own thoughts on the situation we found ourself in

[Lukewarm]

thats not how mafia works. just because u take my case at face value that im not lying doesn't mean u will take my case as compelling. In fact listening to dead townies is a known weakness for all town players in all town games. For better or worse

I mean, I know I don't keep running track on every read of every flipped townie in games.

But this is a very specific scenario where that specific read would be more valuable in my eyes given the mechanics of this game.

But I did see that you don't really have a case as much as a gut read, so thus point is kinda moot anyways

[Lukewarm]

i almost want to ask how the mechanics of this ame make that more valuable in ur eyes because from my stand point its same as any other game....but i don't want us talking theory/game mechanics.
I want to shit post.

too bad ur not big on shit posting luke. We could be memeing right now

Because I will be dancing with exactly Mala, and therefore after this day phase, mechanically, she will be the most important player in the game for me to get a solid read on?

[Lukewarm]

did u not notice me saying that i had been skim reading this game prior to me ever replacing in? i wanted to play in this originally

Ohh dunn thinking im scum after i read norra iso makes sense. They were 1v1ning.
I wondered why dunn immediately was hostile

Turns out all of my reads are garbage, and I would like to thank Datisi for stopping me from spending this whole day phase trying my best to save Noraa.

[Lukewarm]

did u not notice me saying that i had been skim reading this game prior to me ever replacing in? i wanted to play in this originally

Ohh dunn thinking im scum after i read norra iso makes sense. They were 1v1ning.
I wondered why dunn immediately was hostile

Turns out all of my reads are garbage, and I would like to thank Datisi for stopping me from spending this whole

day phase

IRL day trying my best to save Noraa.

[Lukewarm]

I’m very scummy this game. Ydrasse is not wrong.

It's okay Bell, I think you're town

[Lukewarm]

Not sure how to feel about mykos posting last page. Didn't like the ending of 1269. Mixed thoughts

Spoiler:

Didn't like the way it back dated thoughts given I earlier noted he earlier announced he had thoughts but didn't give any.
Also didn't like that it felt like it could be lining me up as an Elim after Noraa, but that only works if Noraa/FB flips town - and also he randomly switches to vaguely defending me in another post.

Also "between Noraa's complaint about everyone townreading Dunn and them flipping thr switch

town isn't really all that bothered

about Dunn either." Feels like it is written from an informed perspective.

But then we hit 1274 where he is soft defending me for reasons I don't understand. Which, not sure why scum would switch to defending me here, especially after he just said that before the rep in in preferred I die this day phase - but I also don't follow why he would do it as town. And also, not sure why Noraa saying Dunn a lot is being treated differently then me saying Dunn a lot. I don't believe we have ever played a game together.

[Lukewarm]

maybe i’m misremembering the vibe of this game but for two people that really don’t trust dunn i don’t remember noraa or luke really townreading or casing each other that much or like to a visible degree which seems hm to me

Maybe you just missed it. Because we both started townreading one another. Noraa more loudly then me. She was loudly declaring me the towniest player in the world.

[Lukewarm]

Not sure how to feel about mykos posting last page. Didn't like the ending of 1269. Mixed thoughts

Spoiler:

Didn't like the way it back dated thoughts given I earlier noted he earlier announced he had thoughts but didn't give any.
Also didn't like that it felt like it could be lining me up as an Elim after Noraa, but that only works if Noraa/FB flips town - and also he randomly switches to vaguely defending me in another post.

Also "between Noraa's complaint about everyone townreading Dunn and them flipping thr switch

town isn't really all that bothered

about Dunn either." Feels like it is written from an informed perspective.

But then we hit 1274 where he is soft defending me for reasons I don't understand. Which, not sure why scum would switch to defending me here, especially after he just said that before the rep in in preferred I die this day phase - but I also don't follow why he would do it as town. And also, not sure why Noraa saying Dunn a lot is being treated differently then me saying Dunn a lot. I don't believe we have ever played a game together.

I feel like in looking at actions, and not being able to reverse engineer the cogwheels turning to get to said actions from either alignments perspective.

[Lukewarm]

To be fair to the Noraa slot, I did have my mildly unhinged brain dumping series of posts between 583 and 679, which they later said was why their town read on me got so strong. I originally bought noraa's transition on me as genuine.

[Lukewarm]

To be fair to the Noraa slot, I did have my mildly unhinged brain dumping series of posts between 583 and 679, which they later said was why their town read on me got so strong. I originally bought noraa's transition on me as genuine.

When did they say that?

like could those posts come from scum lukewarm, maybe. but they felt genuine as fucking hell.

Also, they were already switching their read on you in 583

Okay? I originally bought their whole transition as genuine. From having me as a scum lean, because Noraa has scum read me in nearly every game we have ever been in together, to questioning the scum read because I flipped my own reads on their head in response to their case, to really seeing me as strongly town after my free form day of posting. As it happened, I bought it, and I could see where my actions prior to the shifts would have resulted in their perception of me shifting.

This feels like a pointless line of discussion tho

[Lukewarm]

there’s a cooperative element lacked in getting one another decent pairs before

This feels divorced from our progressions on one another.

To be clear, we both were scum reading the other until Noraa dropped their Dunn case. Noraa scum read me, but prefered a Dunn elim today. Noraa was my prefered elim for the day.

Then Noraa's case dropped, and it flipped my read of them.

Then, me flipping my read of them, flipped their read of me.

I believed Noraa's read change on me at the time, but looking back now thinking they are scum, I guess they were just happy to get me as an ally.

[Lukewarm]

luke has been ... strange but maybe i can go back to taking that at face value that this is more likely to be genuine a bit but also even that i’m like ~_~

To be clear, I gave up on my attempts to post differently this game a while ago.

*This is just me babe-eyyy*

[Lukewarm]

Yes

I’m very scummy this game. Ydrasse is not wrong.

It's okay Bell, I think you're town

You should reconsider!

I don't know that scum!Bell would have had the semi-extended confrontation with Dunn back around like page 30 (not gonna take the time to find the exact page number right now)

[Lukewarm]

Unfortunate

[Lukewarm]

Same. Kinda surprised the thread is left open for this.

[Lukewarm]

In a shocking display of consistency I’m back to wanting to kill dunn and whoever partnered with Dunn.

It is possible for Dunn to die without his partner also dying if you/we don't also want datisi to die.

I don't think I still want datisi to die.

[Lukewarm]

Social interaction

[Lukewarm]

How is your day going andante?

[Lukewarm]

luke basically scum claimed with the "I effort as scum too!!" there's 0 way town!Luke says that

Hello.

It is a personal pet peeve of mine to receive town reads for that reason, and have made nearly identical posts in prior games.

Carry on.

[Lukewarm]

Andante, I find your points about Mala very unconvincing.

1347 feels like you are saying that since Mala did not listen to you, she must be scum. But I am not sure why I should think that town!Mala would be more likely to listen to you, then the multiple people encouraging her to accept me [Bell (1297), Dunn (1130), Prism (1192), Ydra (1289)] - Or just trust her own read on me over what anyone was saying.

Your points also seem divorced from the fact that Mala had already attempted to accept me as a dance partner, and the only reason we were not already dancing was a formatting error.

[Lukewarm]

There's rumor that Fire always leaves partners, so i don't think anyone ever would want to pair with Fire.

Have you played a dance game with FireB before? Or is this coming from Myko? Or..?

[Lukewarm]

Hmmm. Is it too suicidal of a play for scum!Dunn to sign off on this kill?

[Lukewarm]

At work sorry. Can’t comment wasn’t much in there
She told me to think about who night killed her if she got night killed.

I just scrolled back a ways through her iso, and the main people I see her voicing concerns over recently are me and Noraa (with a slight splash of dunn, but noticeably less then either of us).

[Lukewarm]

Feels like she was just the most town read player in the PL. I doubt a you+ydra pair had even a small chance of going through.

[Lukewarm]

Fwiw, I think that Bell is always town here, and should probably be accepted by anyone he offers to.

[Lukewarm]

Looking at the PL, I don't think their is a single player I would choose to keep over bell.

[Lukewarm]

Looking at the PL, I don't think their is a single player I would choose to keep over bell.

Then go invite Bell for dance.

1) That is not how this works

2) Mala would not be one of my choices to kick out currently, so even if that was how it works, I wouldn't do that, and would instead encourage someone else to save him

[Lukewarm]

Unless you want to read "No", i need take time to read game.

I mean, did you not read along at all during day 1?

[Lukewarm]

I do not want bell to partner with prism either.

Bell, I think you only get one proposal

[Lukewarm]

A New Hope: The lone dancer will have one chance to propose to another player for their new dance partner(This can result in dance pairs of the same gender) - if rejected, this player will leave the dance, if accepted, the other player's dance partner will leave the dance [3 Days]

[Lukewarm]

My top choice is for you to pair with datisi

[Lukewarm]

When did prism ball andante scum? Looking back, and I'm just seeing her going from town to null

not as sold on Andante's as I initially was. The early energy I like but not as sold on the reads/reactions themselves. Nullish.

[Lukewarm]

what does X do?

To doubt

[Lukewarm]

I am surprised I am not on your kill list dunn.

Has your read on me changed?

[Lukewarm]

Mala did voice a dunn scum read in our dance pt.

Said that the noraa flip looked bad for Dunn, given Noraa very loudly and accurately scum read Dunn in Control.

[Lukewarm]

I am surprised I am not on your kill list dunn.

Has your read on me changed?

I still think you could be mafia who attached themselves to Noraa.

If you are suspicious of me, why would you want Bell to pair to me?

[Lukewarm]

Why are you pushing me today?

Because I still think your scummy

[Lukewarm]

I am surprised I am not on your kill list dunn.

Has your read on me changed?

I still think you could be mafia who attached themselves to Noraa.

If you are suspicious of me, why would you want Bell to pair to me?

I am also suspicious of Mala

Okay? But why support pairing Bell (who you said you town read) to someone you think is scummy? Doesn't that just read you to killing Bell down the line.

I made a comment to Mala in our pt, that I am suspicious of both Enchant and Myko, and therefore don't want Bell to propose to either. And instead, would rather kill them as a pair during the elimination phase.

So trying to piece together why you would be suspicious of mala, and suspicious of me, but want to add Bell into that pair.

[Lukewarm]

And why, if you are suspicious of me, why I wasn't on the kill list at all if you were not considering the resulting pair at the end.

[Lukewarm]

Sure, but immediately after this phase is one where we have to kill a pair. Is there another pair where you are suspicious of both people in the pair?

I'm not talking about down the line, I'm talking about setting up for literally the next phase.

Your approach feels different then my own thinking.

[Lukewarm]

So trying to piece together why you would be suspicious of mala, and suspicious of me, but want to add Bell into that pair.

I don't think that you and Mala are both mafia. I'm not going to want to kill you if Mala is mafia

If you are suspicious of us both, what makes you think we couldn't be partnered?

[Lukewarm]

Why is Bell automatically town for the ydra kill?

I was already strongly town reading Bell before the Ydra kill.

But also, I doubt that Bell, who is very Not Confident in their scum abilities, would want jump straight to putting himself in this position where he would have to lock himself into a 1v1, more townie player wins.

[Lukewarm]

Andantes recent posts are bad.

[Lukewarm]

Sorry >.<

[Lukewarm]

Sorry >.<

nah it just gives me more motivation to improve my scum game and take bigger risks and perhaps even cut my losses and bus a buddy one day.

You know, it would be very cheeky for you to say this as scum knowing I am wrong and you are in the middle of trying to do exactly this.

I kinda hope I am wrong, and this is Bell's break out scum game.

I don't think I am, and Bell is just town, but I would not be too upset to lose to that lol

[Lukewarm]

It’s novel that you’re openly town reading me this game luke. I think the last time was shakesphere. You held out a little later this time before saying it out right. Why did you decide to say it this time?

I am pretty sure that I have openly town read you in the majority of our completed games, so not sure why it is novel.

The main exception being Web of Lies, where I was very cautious of you because I was worried you were buddying up to me because I felt like I had an influential role and then you townlocked me during Night 0 lol. But even in that game, I didn't really scum read you. You just floated in Null the whole game.

Also, games be different.

~Openly avoiding discussion of ongoing games. ~

[Lukewarm]

Why did you decide to say it this time?

I am voicing it strongly now that you are in a position where we have to decide to keep you alive or not. Seemed prudent lol

[Lukewarm]

I'm waiting for Prism to post and then I'm grabbing Prism, Lukewarm, fire, Or datasi.

This feels like a very loaded list. Prism and Datisi fit with what I thought your reads were, but I am surprised to see me and fire mixed in there with no context.

Are you scum reading Mala? and Cephrir?

Town reading me? and Fire?

[Lukewarm]

oh man bell sure is towny

I was answering a direct question, but sure.

[Lukewarm]

what makes it not going after andante, then?

Me saying to go after other people

This feels like a discussion of definition, which is likely not useful at all.

Fire seems to be using "pushing" to mean "applying pressure, interrogating"

And Dunn is using "pushing" to mean "pushing to be killed"

[Lukewarm]

You sure are questioning Andante in a way that I feel is scummy

I'm not saying Andante should die this phase.

**continues talking past one another**

[Lukewarm]

I am really not a fan that both of your (andante) last two posts heavily cropped down quotes to misrep the original.

[Lukewarm]

Sure. Enchant I’ll pair up with myko if you don’t start playing the game, providing reads and making a good faith effort.

I planned to yololeave anyway so go ahead?

Andante/Dunn if you really don't care.

I think i paired with town. Most likely. Maybe.


Idk i would left townpair like you untouched as maf, not kill and risk being outdanced.

??

[Lukewarm]

Sorry, editing down the post on a phone has been a struggle

Sure. Enchant I’ll pair up with myko if you don’t start playing the game, providing reads and making a good faith effort.

I

planned to yololeave anyway

so go ahead?

I think i

paired with town. Most likely. Mayb

e.

??[/quote]

[Lukewarm]

Do you not see the issue between you saying that your plan was to leave, and then in your next post declare that you are pretty sure that your partner is town?

[Lukewarm]

Sure. Enchant I’ll pair up with myko if you don’t start playing the game, providing reads and making a good faith effort.

I planned to yololeave anyway so go ahead?

Like this post feels very reminiscent to me from our scum game together in popcorn, where the moment people started considering shooting you, you immediate said basically "I wanted the gun anyways so go ahead" to try and bluster people from doing it.

Doubly so, since it doesn't actually line up with your reads

[Lukewarm]

My gut reaction is that bell is town here because of if scum, we'll be able to see the theatre of scum having to dump their partner and trade for bell to become a SvS pair.

I don't feel like they would ever be angling for a s/s pair

[Lukewarm]

Actually, unless the math actually works for that to be good?

Gut reaction is that that kills 2 scum for the price of one if one of them slips up/ falls under suspicion.

I haven't looked at how that affect elo, and I should probably do that

[Lukewarm]

I overall had a decently good feeling about Prism.

We'll have to take you at your word for this, because this is not reflected in your iso.

Spoiler: Here is where Prism appears in your iso during the first phase

I had dinner and just ate some cookies and cream icecream.

Am I scum yet.
Andante is a her.

newbiescumtellbrooo

I know im playing with fire but me asking ydrasse to dance vs prism asking andante.
one is extremely scummy and the equivalent of "anyone want to dance?"
but the other is like apparently so towny that the dance is happening.

how does that make sense

Well, first, I'm not the player that weighed in on your proposal to Ydrasse. Andante was. Maybe she's a better fit to answer. It's also unclear if this is a critique of me proposing, of Andante accepting, or both, because asking about Ydrasse is fundamentally different than asking "anyone" and you treat them as equivalent anyway.

Second, Andante posted that because she's like the energizer bunny or the smiling dog in her picture, eager for more posts and to run around and grab the stick and bring it back and have someone throw it again so she can grab it again and shake head to play with stick pretend it is squirrel oh no they take stick and they can throw it and where stick go there stick must move legs fast and....

Fundamentally I think that enthusiastic pro-activity is a bit +town for her. That's a read rooted in meta. While I didn't comment on it before, I think your Ydrasse reaction is null at best. Just rote pursuit of early/pregame pocket target is plausible.

I agree w/ this assessment.

Andante's play so far reminds me of a puppy biting at my shoe while my leg is still attached because I got in their way. But I'm actually okay with that. They don't have to listen. I just won't talk to or address them unless I think it particularly relevant.
I dunno what Andante scum looks like. They've appeared townie since I've known them. This game isn't much of an exception.

Strangely, I actually agree with Ydra so far, but both Fire and Luke are the types of players I like, so I'm looking forward to seeing them play and maybe changing my mind.

so I have played with scum andante twice and this feels like town andante. Scum Andante has a tone-difference in her posts.

town andante has a huge chance of being pocketed so I want to wait out this read before solidily calling her town

i feel townpings on malakittens for possibly dumb reasons, we'll see

why's that??

maybe

dunnstral/mala
lukewarm/Datisi
cephir/fireisred

luke+ceph swap works too

So, I haven't yet had a great read on Dunn. I have played with Dunn in the past and been wrong too many times. So i'm leaning on ppl who have more exp in reading him.

im also open to that. i wanted myko left out most but now with who is remaining i want ceph and dun >>>>> luke and noraa to stay.

and im cool with taking some consensus into account if it comes down to luke/noraa cause i don't exactly have a strong scumread on either of them

I mean i wanted you to be left out bc i think youre scum, but hey we all cant get what we want

dunn will flip scum 9/10 times here

You were right about Dunn in Control so if anything i'll be more wanting to trust your read over aNYones elses when it comes to dunn

someone once told me dunnstral powers up in dance games

so in hindsight this makes dunn's posting NAI as if he powers up in dance game regardless of alignment, which in the future is gonna throw off any meta type tells

fml

I think that Dunn should be left behind

propose to Mala

I don't currently trust Prism, which leaves me disinclined to let her do the sorting of the pairs.

Thinking selfishly, I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2, and I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today. So, survival thinking says Mala is my best bet.

Noted & ooof going to think on this last few lines of this.

Any bets on how long it takes Malakittens to notice her pairing got rejected for formatting?

I got the message from the mod
so i'm aware it was rejected for not being bolded.

i also checked the op so i know i have a decision to make between noraa and luke

i just need to catch up

Here is the only place you have ever given a read on Prism:

First I’m hearing you think prism isn’t town.

I have a lot of thoughts, and the fact ydra was killed over prism was a bit sus to me cause I thought prism looked very towny and is someone I'd fearkill... not sure why this is a hard thought to believe?

What. IMO prism was not the player I townread the most during D1. As I had two others who i felt were townier than Prism. You, actually, being one of them.

Which is during day 3, and in fact is a stance you just conjured up out of thin air today.

Hmm

I cross referenced back to the reads list mala gave me in our pt during the night, and prism was unsorted

[Lukewarm]

Dug through. Noraa was very sure dunn was scum, and led his day 1 miselimination.

Both were town.

I believe he is combating the idea that Noraa is good at reading him, since Mala appears to be hanging her dunn read on noraas

[Lukewarm]

Hmmmmm.

I am being swayed on my dunn scum read. Not ready to call him town, but he is making me question if he is my top choice to go anymore

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

I am not liking gins or andantes posting this phase.

Also, don't like Mala's response to dunn questioning her prism read. Like, she isn't saying that it's a new read, she feels like she is trying to back date it with old posts, but I saw her reads list in our pt, and prism was not a town read .

Maybe I am no longer opposed to Bell dancing with me?

Mafia is hard.

[Lukewarm]

Dug through. Noraa was very sure dunn was scum, and led his day 1 miselimination.

Both were town.

I believe he is combating the idea that Noraa is good at reading him, since Mala appears to be hanging her dunn read on noraas

It would be fair to state that this dunnstral is 2.5 to 3 standard deviations from the norm.

Agreed

[Lukewarm]

Okay. Summarize thoughts

I don't want Bell to propose to: Dunn, Datisi, ceph, Fire, Myko, Enchant

That leaves: me, gin, andante

Hmmm. Maybe I am my own top choice now?

Need sleep, this is as far as I'm getting tonight

[Lukewarm]

Obviously add Mala to the people I don't want him to propose to lol

[Lukewarm]

Okay. Summarize thoughts

I don't want Bell to propose to: Dunn, Datisi, ceph, Fire, Myko, Enchant

That leaves: me, gin, andante

Hmmm. Maybe I am my own top choice now?

Need sleep, this is as far as I'm getting tonight

Why Myko here (which would kill Enchant)?

Mainly because I am suspicious of both, and they have been my top choice for us to vote out in the next phase, so swapping Bell into the pair would mess that up.

Myko would not be the worst choice, I quite liked your case on Enchant.

[Lukewarm]

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

[Lukewarm]

I really like your enchanct case. Both in it being a compelling argument, while not one that I think you would make as scum.

In an unexpected turn of events, I think Dunn is town.

[Lukewarm]

Read through Dunn's case again. Dunn is definitely town.

I also fully buy the scum case on Enchant (helps that I was already scum reading him, but that was a compelling case)

[Lukewarm]

If Andate is seriously talking about leaving, then that makes me more inclined to just kill off Enchant now, instead of that being delayed even more.

I now think that Bell should propose to Myko. But, should probably confirm that Myko will accept Bell before he offers. I seem to remember Myko town reading Enchant, and not town reading Bell.

[Lukewarm]

I don't think Bell is actually suspected that much by people beyond me,

Mykonian do you plan to leave with enchant?

I think I'm happy to leave this one up in the air.

I was half right

[Lukewarm]

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

idk i kinda think myko is town

There have been a lot of posts that I didn't like.

Want to talk about why you think they are town?

[Lukewarm]

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

idk i kinda think myko is town

There have been a lot of posts that I didn't like.

Want to talk about why you think they are town?

sure. i think the main reason was his plan to pair with enchant, firstly at all (enchant is probably the worst partner scum could ask for if he's town), and secondly apparently with the intention of suiciding on him. i think i liked at least one post for content reasons recently. ill look for that

What made you think that he was intending to leave with Enchant? What I saw was him refuse to answer the question.

[Lukewarm]

What made you think that he was intending to leave with Enchant? What I saw was him refuse to answer the question.

Which is one of the posts that bothered me btw

[Lukewarm]

why do I even try...

Hello Andante. I am suspicions of the Prism slot. Dunn also said that the Prism slot is in his solve. We see you saving your hands up and down that Prism is mafia.

But I prefer to sort more then just one slot at a time. We have the time, and we have plenty of slots to talk about.

I am sorry that we didn't all drop everything, and suddenly change gears to promptly kill your top scum read, but I am reading and listening to what you have to say.

[Lukewarm]

but he noped the fuck out of that instantly for some reason ?

Bell town reads the prism slot, so it made sense to me

[Lukewarm]

I've liked Cephrir's posts tonight.

I guess wrt Myko, I agree that pairing with Enchanct is a ??? play as scum.

I just scum read basically everything else >.<

[Lukewarm]

Okay. Back to bed.

pedit: goddamn it bell

[Lukewarm]

Go to bed. I’m already in bed. Your mistake was playing mafia out of bed.

Oh, I am in bed. Sitting up on my laptop.

I meant that I wanted to actually SLEEP in my bed, because it is after 2 AM

[Lukewarm]

I've liked Cephrir's posts tonight.

I guess wrt Myko, I agree that pairing with Enchanct is a ??? play as scum.

I just scum read basically everything else >.<

What did they even post

That is part of the problem?

But, here are the things that stood out to me while reading:

Older thoughts on Myko found here: 1278 -> I then didn't like that his response to it in 1299 was limited solely to the language usage part. Like I made a 3 part post, and there was 1 part that he felt like he could confidently address, so thats the only part he addressed.


I did not like 1370. Lots of words, with little actually going on. The self dialogue back and forth felt contrived.

I particularly didn't like the bout of paranoia at the end "I think if this is the case the situation is even worse than I already think as the kill was not in my townreads (and they then might not be so town after all)." I did not buy that as a real thought.

I did not like him dodging the question of leaving Enchant, because it was coming from you (Bell). Like, you are trying to sort who to propose too, so it felt off to me.

His read on Cephrir in 1490 felt very abstracted, but also with no conclusions. It felt like a post to make it look like he was thinking about Ceph, but there are not actually any sorting happening there.

-----

I don't know, I just keep seeing post from him, and not seeing what looks like real solving.

[Lukewarm]

Anyways. Really, really to sleep now.