Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[fireisredsir]

kinda hyped to be a lady tbh

lads you gotta EARN my acceptance. work hard

[fireisredsir]

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

towny post

[fireisredsir]

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

towny post

scummy entrance

i had already entered

[fireisredsir]

cannot see scum bell telling andante and noraa to chill and take things slower

[fireisredsir]

cannot see scum bell telling andante and noraa to chill and take things slower

I can

i know you can. thats part of why i don't think he would do it lol

[fireisredsir]

who wouldn't be nervous before a big dance

actually tho weird that you think that, im just p low energy rn and am not trying very hard, don't think nervousness is really on the table. if i were maf id prob be more self conscious about how i sound

[fireisredsir]

cause its a mafia game and i wouldn't want to get caught? idk how the dance play differs exactly from standard, but i assume that is still a concern

[fireisredsir]

and like, @ fire, it doesn't feel like you're even trying to sort anyone right now

i sorted bell and that wasn't enough for you

most people i don't have a very good read on yet. i haven't danced before so the lack of votes is changing the vibes and making me less sure on reads

[fireisredsir]

i do have one tentative scumread which is myko but i wanted to check out some past games since idk them as a player

[fireisredsir]

bell stonks rapidly rising

town stonks or scum stonks

[fireisredsir]

idk if it's there not being votes or what but im not really seeing much that stands out as AI so far

maybe ill try rereading and pay more attention this time

[fireisredsir]

ok i reread and all i really came away with is not understanding how people are townreading myko

[fireisredsir]

They’re very serious face and then doubled down on the serious faceness.
As everyone knows there is only so serious face a scum will be early game because they don’t know how people will react to their resting serious face. They’re very serious about this. If people don’t post content 100% of the time then they’re scum: serious face.

Starring: serious face.

idk i looked at some past games and they are very serious face early as scum. probably, idk, they seem to have not played in a few years

[fireisredsir]

dunnstral seems very gentlemanly imo, perhaps the most gentlemanly of the gentlemen

like he would dress all formal, perfectly tailored tux, wear a boutonniere, gently kiss the hand and everything

[fireisredsir]

my current list of finest gentlemen:

1. bell. seems like town to me, and some people seem to disagree, so there could be some risk of him being left behind, and i would prefer that he stays with us. he seems like he may be less of a romantic dancer, but that doesn't mean it won't be fun, and maybe when the music is just right he will surprise me. but if he does find another partner, i won't be too offended

2. dunnstral. the perfect gentleman. if he is, as prism says, closed off and reserved, then i think a nice private dance, where secret thoughts can be revealed and quiet whispers can be shared, would be a magical experience

3. cephrir. ceph hasn't posted yet but i just

know

that a dance with him would be a dream come true. he would probably be number 1 on my list but i mustn't set my hopes too high. a lady must be coy about these things sometimes

4. noraa. im having trouble getting a read on zir from zir current posts. maybe a dance would help to sort? but maybe it wouldn't. im not sure. i am open to considering the possibility, though, if ze so desires

5. lukewarm. would be okay with them getting left behind, i think their posting is kinda eh so far. but i also think they could be a nice dancer and a dance could help me sort, so if it comes down to it, i may be interested in taking their hand

6. mykonian. probably scum. should be left behind, so at this point i see no reason to accept a proposal here. ive heard rumors that they have two left feet as well

[fireisredsir]

You were going to read up on my previous games to see if what you found was a scumtell on me. With my multi year break, I'm curious to see what similarities you found. If I'm being rather cynical I think I'm in your scumpile because Bell is your top town read while they are my top scum read. In which case I'd be interested to see how a. Bell is supposedly town and b. how this has to do anything with my allignment.

yea once i saw you had taken a multi year break i was less excited about that idea, since people change. but your most recent game i found was a scumgame that made it clear you are not at all out of your scumrange here, and the next one i found was a towngame that made me think it likely isn't just a personality thing that im picking up on

i do think your read on bell is relevant to my read on you, mostly that I think your read there is made up. and several of your posts, including the ones on bell, feel like they're made more for the sake of looking like you're doing something rather than actual solving where you care about the results of what you're sorting

[fireisredsir]

Also fire ranking Cephrir who hasn’t posted as his 3rd highest tr is odd to me… ahhhhhh this game

it wasn't a list of townreads it was a list of FINEST GENTLEMEN

but since one gentleman is being left out it is effectively kinda close to a townread list. i don't really know how other ladies are choosing their partners, but im going for some combination of "do i care if they would be left out in the rain" + "how much additional info do i think i could get out of dancing with them"

main difference if it were a townread list would be that noraa would be slightly higher, but lukewarm and myko are both south of null for me so they would fall below True Null ceph either way

[fireisredsir]

I’d like to bring this back and repeat how much I don’t like anything about it… like, it seriously feels like fire is barely reading the thread, like I definitely have Noraa above Cephrir, it doesn’t feel like a “I think these people are town I want to pair” list, but instead feels like a “I’m most likely to survive if I partner with these people” I can’t be the only one thinking this, like I guess Fire wants to ignore reads on ladies and already partnered people? this just feels like scum in “oh no I need towny partner” mode, like you are going to be guaranteed a partner… yet this is just “I’m gonna take the thread reads and put them in my own words”

1) im reading, what makes you think im not?

2) already addressed why ceph is above noraa. im not super confident in my ability to sort noraa in a dance, and ze puts a lot of thoughts in the thread anyway, and im not really doubting zir ability to find a partner. and i think dancing with ceph would be fun

3) at the time of posting, 3 of the ladies had done basically nothing, so there's nothing to comment on there. the rest i don't have a strong enough read on to talk about them much right now

[fireisredsir]

1) idk if myko is at all a universal scumread? and noraa i don't always understand why ze is thinking what ze is thinking. ceph i feel like i can understand his thought process better in general which is always +++ability to sort

2) he's a fun person. i assume he just hasn't gotten to the game since the time it started and expect that he will post a normal amount

3) in that specific post yes i was ignoring ladies and paired people bc it was a post specifically about the gentlemen. i do not plan to ignore them forever

[fireisredsir]

236 I found myself nodding along to everything.

hyperaware that venturing into Handwritten Notes Territory is extremely fraught, but is this a real note. this is a thing one says to others as a manner of explanation in my mind

is or isn't a real note?

[fireisredsir]

oh hang on it says here if someone asks you if you're scum it's the law that you have to tell them damn. yeah i am awoo etc

I propose we leave Cephrir out, unironically.

if cephrir has million number of ladies ready to dance i am one of them. if cephrir has six ladies waiting for his hand i am one of them. if cephrir have only one lady and that is me. if cephrir has no ladies, that means i am no more on the earth. if world against the cephrir, i am against the world 

[fireisredsir]

I can't control myself and really want a fire and lukewarm pairing, for science.

what's your hypothesis

if its for science you gotta follow the scientific method

[fireisredsir]

I understand fire,
Cephrir is a beautiful gentleman and make no mistake.
He is funny, he is charming, he is warm, and I hear he gives the best bear hugs.

But he might be scum this game *Sunglasses*
He like, had a stress response and everything.
I could feel the cortisol from here.

@Fireisredsir: My hypothesis is that two birds of a feather will make sweet beautiful baby reads together.

hmmm i did think lukewarm's latest thoughts were alright. i think if they were scum they'd probably have tried harder to come up with a scumread

i am intrigued by ceph's noraa take

[fireisredsir]

ydrasse towny maybe for putting coherent words to similar thoughts that i had but didn't know how to parse

[fireisredsir]

ohhh fun i love when people think im somebody

[fireisredsir]

This is an interesting stance. Just because Cehprir is a lovely person? Or are you town reading Cephrir currently (and if yes, why)?

its a copypasta, so... mostly joking

i don't have much of a read on ceph yet but would not like him to be left behind at this time

[fireisredsir]

i did think his points on you (@luke) and noraa were decently towny so slight lean there i guess, but im also trying to lean against my natural inclination to townread likeable people

[fireisredsir]

going to fake a scumslip

that sounds like a towny thing to do

[fireisredsir]

bell i really appreciate you just opening up your skull and laying your entire brain on the table

it helps, really

[fireisredsir]

this seems like a good pairing and one that i would be unlikely to vote out when we get to that stage, feelin p towny on both

[fireisredsir]

in past dances have maf avoided partnering with each other?

[fireisredsir]

can someone explain this lovers vs dancers distinction, cause i don't see anything about lovers in the setup and idk what y'all are talking about

[fireisredsir]

thank you. such a gentleman

[fireisredsir]

this is a fun setup. so many high impact choices!

[fireisredsir]

yea but like the elims feel so individually chosen. and people can't just sit on a 1 person wagon vote the whole day, everyone is forced to make some sort of active choice, and the choices become more significant the later in the phase it is

idk, i think its neat

[fireisredsir]

the only reason choices would matter is basically if town do not choose to work together and everyone chooses things on their own.

so you mean like how people are doing things now?

[fireisredsir]

im also open to that. i wanted myko left out most but now with who is remaining i want ceph and dun >>>>> luke and noraa to stay.

and im cool with taking some consensus into account if it comes down to luke/noraa cause i don't exactly have a strong scumread on either of them

[fireisredsir]

I suspect that fireisred is going to want to save Cephrir here. Incidentally I also think that Cephrir could go either way.

i doubt it will come down to you two as the choice anyway. but i could go either way

[fireisredsir]

datisi, do you have reads on the current eligible bachelors?

[fireisredsir]

vla until monday

ill be able to post and read a bit here and there but if i end up being the hammer that decision will have to wait until i can fully be here

[fireisredsir]

fire can you not accept that offer quite yet?

yea, but i probably will eventually

[fireisredsir]

this is a more convincing dunn case than i expected from the first few posts about it

[fireisredsir]

one thing i was thinking about is if scum dunn would have tried to pair up sooner, knowing that noraa was going to try to read him soon

but maybe rushing into a partnership wouldn't match up enough with his slow and careful playstyle

[fireisredsir]

the more convincing part to me was the thing about how he's kinda softening his stances in places

but i wanna go read some to see if that is something he is more likely to do as scum or not. disregarding meta entirely, though, i think it is just on the face of it a somewhat scummier thing to do for most people

[fireisredsir]

that is probably what i would do if I were a scum gent so i can buy that

[fireisredsir]

i think myko had some similar vibes to that even if it isn't exactly the same

[fireisredsir]

i think myko had some similar vibes to that even if it isn't exactly the same

ok nvm no he didn't

[fireisredsir]

fire can you not accept that offer quite yet?

im going to be leaving soon and will likely not be able to be super caught up until monday. i currently see no reason not to accept besides that you asked me to wait, i want ceph over all the other remaining gentlemen

is there anything specific you were waiting for

[fireisredsir]

Basically they just remind me of unwnd

what the, not again

do i just talk like this guy or something

[fireisredsir]

Dunn also does the huge counter arguments thing as scum.

What do I do as town?

You get sassy.

he seems kinda sassy here

[fireisredsir]

fire didnt you say you were busy? btw i do still think the elimination should be between cephrir, dunn, and i. so i dont think fire or datisi should accept anything yet. mala should accept lukewarm asap though

yea i am but im incapable of staying away, so im kinda skimming

[fireisredsir]

i kinda think dunn is more towny based on this response, from the very little meta research i had time to do earlier

[fireisredsir]

i also kinda think, not to criticize my fellow ladies too much, but i think they may have been a tad hasty in accepting the proposals. you gotta play hard to get sometimes, you know

im starting to think it may be more likely for there to be scum in the people already paired than in the people remaining

[fireisredsir]

really? ydrasse and fire both think you are town. explicitly town.

i wouldn't say that, i thought he was townyish at first, then found your case somewhat convincing, and then now am back to thinking he's townyish

i think the lesson here is that im very easily convinced

[fireisredsir]

i have an idea. it's slightly dumb but think about it. If we leave me, dunn and datisi unpaired, then me dying would confscum dunn. it's clear dunn is a greater asset to town than me.

if dunn dies, well that would mean i was wrong on them.

and datisi cannot die since datisi is the only lady.

i know ze already nvm'd this post, but the bolded sentence is making me really want to leave noraa behind

actually kinda the whole thing

maybe im dumb but i don't understand how this is looking at things from the perspective of zir being uninformed town

[fireisredsir]

This just looks like clumsy wording to me. The whole structure of Zir sentences is broken and missing pieces/contextual clues.

probably, yeah. im usually pretty forgiving of that sort of thing but maybe im not in the forgiving mood right now

[fireisredsir]

i don't love 795

a lot of the reasonings feel pretty zero level, like he was just pulling out luke's posts and going on a scavenger hunt of standard scumtells to see what he could find. dunn seems a little sharper and more insightful than that usually

and knowing that there's a solid chance that the decision on who gets left behind will come down to someone choosing between him and luke, dunn has a lot of motivation to convince whoever is making that decision that luke is the scummier one

in general lately it kinda feels like vibes of dunn finding as many places as he can to be logically correct, with the implication being that therefore he is town because he is right. and maybe town does that too. but it seems to me like sometimes finding places to be right is taking priority over finding scum

so i think im back to feeling less towny on dunn

[fireisredsir]

andante: i think fire is maf

mala: i agree!!

andante: i think fire is maf and ceph is town. i don't want them paired. fire should pair with mala

mala: wow you feel good about me!!

andante: well im yeeting fire and so i don't want ceph to go too bc ceph is town. you're not towny enough for me to have that concern

mala: ooooo good post we should mindmeld!!


kinda feels like a pocket attempt that is hilariously misreading the situation

[fireisredsir]

but are you unpocket-attempt-able

[fireisredsir]

oh wait lmao im dumb disregard

[fireisredsir]

still waking up, misread that as you wanting mala to pair with me, not mala with ceph. i forgot that mala is a lady

[fireisredsir]

Question for Fire, I know love is blind but what do you think of cephrir so far? In terms of gameplay.

at some points just kinda... fine, at some points a bit above fine

i like 277, 651, 660

and there isn't really anything i didn't like

so well above luke, dunn, and noraa cause they all have things i don't like

[fireisredsir]

Oh, and was unsure how much to buy the mech dumbtells around that time. Me, Lukewarm, fireisredsir all not understaning the mech. I suspect it was easily missed even for the scumteam so my current stock is zero.

for the record i did understand this setup, but i didn't know what y'all were saying about lovers. i haven't danced before so i didn't have the prior assumptions about setup that some others apparently had

[fireisredsir]

mala luke acceptance is unofficial but assuming that goes through, we're at me + datisi choosing from noraa, dunn, and ceph?

i know datisi said he didn't want to hammer, but....

[fireisredsir]

idk how much more productive the noraa vs dunn conversation will be. i would have liked for mala to not accept luke already because i think we could have gotten more info out of that situation

i guess she hasn't yet but it seems like she's decided

[fireisredsir]

bell, you want dunn > noraa > luke left behind? i don't remember you talking about luke much do you have thoughts there?

[fireisredsir]

Hmm. I am notnsire if I think this is scum theater or not.

If it is, good job guys. It looks fairly natural

this kinda feels like a post that someone makes when they're like "oh right im supposed to be scumreading both of these people i shall comment on this"

and not as much like the kind of post someone makes if they are actually thinking this

[fireisredsir]

This is very hard to care about

agreed, maybe we should just dance

[fireisredsir]

prism is efforting but i get vibes of her effort being devoted (mostly, with some sidetracks) trying to solve the game rather than her trying to control the game. i think thats enough for me to feel like i can townlean on her for now

[fireisredsir]

i don't feel like i can really decide between luke/noraa/dunn bc it changes like every time i read a new batch of posts. i think id rather noraa > luke > dunn be left behind rn but im pretty sure as soon as noraa shows up again and starts posting ill be swayed again, so whatever

luckily i don't have to make that decision

[fireisredsir]

i accept cephrir's proposal

[fireisredsir]

nah ill be teaching you the griddy, get with the times

[fireisredsir]

oh uh right im a lady

i mean

why yes of course, my dear, although i must admit i do love a good waltz

[fireisredsir]

dunn continuing to solve after being paired makes me feel better about him, i think

[fireisredsir]

the "i think" is more bc im not sure if i should. but i do

[fireisredsir]

im already townreading (or townleaning) you two

but specifically with dunn, i thought that the way he ramped up his posting when under pressure was potentially scum motivated bc he knew he could win an argument of logic against the people scumreading him (and i think he did). if that were true, i would expect most of that energy to be focused on tearing down the cases made against him (which he did, for a while). i would not really expect that momentum to carry through after he's been paired to continue a higher posting volume, now directed at solving and sorting other slots unrelated to himself. that just doesn't really fit the model of how i was thinking a potential scum!Dunn would be playing here

and maybe that model wasn't ever accurate in the first place (hence the "not sure if i should"), but if that's true, then i don't have much reason to scumread him anyway. so either way, scum feelings on dunn decreasing

[fireisredsir]

shit is cephrir scum.
fire u gotta be careful

uh oh!!!

[fireisredsir]

i feel bad that people are calling you FB now when you are clearly the original fire

maybe i should be FIRS

no thats weird

[fireisredsir]

so if bell is town

does this mean that maf think that bell is unlikely to ask to pair with (or get accepted by) people maf are partnered with?

or is that thinking too hard

[fireisredsir]

sbeve

[fireisredsir]

Fwiw, I think that Bell is always town here, and should probably be accepted by anyone he offers to.

my first reaction was to not like this post

and then my second reaction was to realize i kinda agree with this post

and then my third reaction was to think that you might actually not make this post as scum since people might not like it and it isn't really a necessary thing at all to say to further any sort of scum agenda

[fireisredsir]

i read but i don't really have much to say tbh

[fireisredsir]

i don't really think its scummy for andante but ive only played with town andante so i don't have a good feel for what she feels like as scum. it is very similar to open 849 where we were both town, she scumread my slot off some early posts, and then mostly didn't do much else except to pop in every once in a while and say i was scum

if that game hadn't happened I'd prob be scumreading her for her play this game but eh i think some of my early posts this game could look kinda awkward so i don't think it's unreasonable

i also think its kind of a fallacy to look for consistency in read progression and logically supported cases from andante, and to say that if she doesn't have that then she's scum

[fireisredsir]

i did consider that she could be intentionally matching her play in that game but that could be a stretch

[fireisredsir]

it does kinda follow a pattern for dunn though, he did this with noraa too and i pointed it out then, where it feels like he's looking for logical gotchas rather than actually considering scum motivations behind actions.

and the fact that he has gone after noraa and then andante with this kinda doesn't sit right with me. im pretty sure you could take any town andante game and shred her progressions to pieces and find endless logical holes. that doesn't make her scum though

i guess maybe if he's trying to determine if she does genuinely believe the things that she's pushing? it's close to that but not quite. but that is my best guess at how to catch scum andante

[fireisredsir]

Not to mention prism has been pretty consistently townie.

has she? i haven't really felt anything towny from prism unless you count a lack of a strong presence in the thread as towny for her

[fireisredsir]

huh now that i say that prism has a lot more posts than I thought she did. gonna go reread them to see why they didn't leave that strong of an impression on me

[fireisredsir]

ok page 42 is the closest to being towny i think, most of the rest is kinda w/e

[fireisredsir]

no, ive just seen him around a bit and liked his vibes. i was also curious to see how he would respond to me basically requesting a dance before he had even posted. jury is still out on whether i feel like i was able to sort him at all based on his response

our dance has been pretty boring so far though tbh ):

[fireisredsir]

i feel like firebringer joining made him realize that was who he truly wanted to dance with, and things have never been the same between us since

feelings of inadequacy plague me

[fireisredsir]

hmm, ok. i know that you had enchant and malakittens as top choices there. but my impression from 1423, 1428, and 1446, made after that, was that your scumread was increasing. is that wrong?

[fireisredsir]

what makes it not going after andante, then?

[fireisredsir]

why would it be useless?

i said that dunn was doing something that i thought had potential scum motivation. he dismissed it and said he wasn't doing that, and gave some evidence apparently to support that. i felt that the evidence didn't actually support that, because what i was talking about came later. i think his later posts do support that he was doing what i said he was doing. now i would like to revisit why he dismissed it as something he wasn't doing

[fireisredsir]

Not sure how I feel about the no meta investigation on cephrir.
They’re hard to read, not really an exception this game. You’ve meta’d elsewhere, no sure why you didn’t lose patience or consistency and try something else involving cephrir. Well, it wasn’t like that was the only fire you had cooking though.

likeable people are actually the first ones I usually meta read, mostly just to read through a maf game and reassure myself that they can still be charming and likeable as scum and I shouldn't townread them for that. i have done that for ceph, idk why you thought i haven't. it's true that i haven't analyzed his scum vs town games in depth to determine differences or tells, all i remember finding is slightly more "i don't care" vibes as town

[fireisredsir]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13309638

107-270, 1013

oh yea, we can talk about this now. i kinda agree that this is useful, noraa felt similarly confident and ze was wrong in that one. i don't think it makes dunn town but i do think it means that nobody at this point should be scumreading dunn due to noraa saying that he's scum

[fireisredsir]

idk if anyone really is tho

[fireisredsir]

that is true, i guess, but i thought it was already established that he's way more active here than he usually is as town or scum

[fireisredsir]

i agree that dunn is p unlikely to make that case as scum

[fireisredsir]

yea uh wait do not propose to myko lmao

[fireisredsir]

if you think bell is town then him proposing to myko is a bad idea bc myko thinks bell is scum and will probably reject, and bell only gets 1 proposal

[fireisredsir]

DO NONE YALL BELIEVE ME? PRISM SLOT IS MAFIA

you also think im mafia so im not exactly convinced by this lol

but it could be, i didn't really TR prism. you're the one who has the power to leave, tho, so you don't really have to convince anyone

[fireisredsir]

i don't know who i want to die this phase tbh

[fireisredsir]

i don't know who i want to die this phase tbh

to follow up on this: luke, do you feel that what I've done this phase (or ceph, or probably others too) is significantly different from what myko has done? if so, in what why? and if not, why single out myko for it?

[fireisredsir]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

why is ceph scum this game

ive seen some of the comments you've made but i feel like they could apply to ceph every game

[fireisredsir]

why would it be townier to just impulse shoot your shot instead of discuss and make other people commit to stances and try to use your power to hunt scum

[fireisredsir]

he's said a couple times that wants to wait for datisi to come back. what posts are you seeing that he is testing the waters with everyone? or mocking you? i don't really see either of those

[fireisredsir]

how is that the only important thing if i am allegedly being waited on?

idk why exactly bell was waiting for you, ig cause you were one of the people he was considering asking to pair with?

but i think dunn has gotten townier with his enchant case so idk if thats still something bell is considering

[fireisredsir]

but i think dunn has gotten townier with his enchant case

You don't even know what i will flip, but already assume i flip as mafia?

no? i don't actually think the case was very convincing but i don't think dunn makes it as scum

[fireisredsir]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

The idea that I as scum would ever put you in a position to have sole power over an elim is questionable at best

allow me to rephrase for emphasis.

bell if i had the power to give someone a gun as any alignment i would never ever give it to you even if i was confirmed town.

this is a pretty good point tbh

bell i would prefer you pair with someone else

[fireisredsir]

about the andante wanting to do something and then being hesitant to do it once she learns that she can... i totally get the scumread there BUT im getting flashbacks to a similar scenario in a different (completed) game here ill spoiler quote the progression

Spoiler: from a different game

hey andante guess what

if wave TRs greeting, I'm voting greeting no brakes

I think I've said all game I lean town on greeting

I think their play has been consistent with what I've always seen, nothing that's been pointed out lately has changed that

in fact I'm pretty sure I posted a reads list some pages back where they were pretty high up lol. so this is really not news?

hey andante guess what

if wave TRs greeting, I'm voting greeting no brakes

I think I've said all game I lean town on greeting

I think their play has been consistent with what I've always seen, nothing that's been pointed out lately has changed that

in fact I'm pretty sure I posted a reads list some pages back where they were pretty high up lol. so this is really not news?

YOOOOO THAT'S A THING!!! umm look, I'll figure out that situation later, Frozen wants Nero, Frozen gets Nero. no one is distracting me from this. And yes I think it flips town, but I'm not auto tunneling Frozen for it tomorrow, I'm dealing with duck/wave/greeting later

YOOOOO THAT'S A THING!!! umm look, I'll figure out that situation later, Frozen wants Nero, Frozen gets Nero. no one is distracting me from this. And yes I think it flips town, but I'm not auto tunneling Frozen for it tomorrow, I'm dealing with duck/wave/greeting later

hey how about you figure it out now instead of voting someone you townread? am i not passionate enough for you? ):

Eyes pleas

Hmmm you do bring up a good point... ughh that makes 4 I'm looking at...


I'm busy today, I'll make some sort of decision later
UNVOTE:

i wanna be super clear that everyone sees here how much more willing andante is to vote someone she townreads (sorry Nero, FA is too passionate!! I must vote you! I have no choice!!) than greeting, someone she has repeatedly dodged around giving an opinion on (i don't remember anything he posted!! i will vote him if wavemode townreads!! oh, he did? uhhh gotta go bye)

if i die tonight someone promise me you shall carry this information on to the people who are not reading the thread

idk how much sense this will make without context but basically i thought andante was doing a very un-andante like thing by saying she really wanted to do something based on some conditional but then once the conditional came true she backed away from it. i scumread her for this on that game, but ended up being that she was town

so idk that reason is less convincing for me than it otherwise would be since ive wrongly scumread her for it before

[fireisredsir]

Vibes they also haven’t done anything townie and I dunno why people think they have. I understand that people like cephrir, but why they genuinely think this is out of cephrir’s scum range is a mystery to me.

I’m not sure if cephrir is saying that I’d shoot him even if he was an IC and I were town because of the “I always tunnel” cephrir thing. Or if they mean it’s just generally annoying given my personality and play style to give me power over other people.

i don't think its out of his scumrange at all, but i do lean town. he knows that you scumread him, and that multiple other people townread him, and that you townread me. why would he as scum shoot ydrasse and give you the golden opportunity to pair with me and take him out, knowing that you probably will really want to do that?

[fireisredsir]

No she actually tried to leave AFTER learning she probably couldn’t.

I don’t need to explain to you why scum might try to do that, right?

ok yes that part is kinda scummy i agree there

[fireisredsir]

speaking of, i would like to see andante's town ceph case

so bell if you could wait for that before making your decision that would be nice

[fireisredsir]

yea uh wait do not propose to myko lmao

if you think bell is town then him proposing to myko is a bad idea bc myko thinks bell is scum and will probably reject, and bell only gets 1 proposal

[fireisredsir]

actually i guess your pair will prob just get voted out if he rejects so maybe thats true

[fireisredsir]

enchant is much more likely scum than bell imo, so myko should accept

[fireisredsir]

i admit i was starting to get a little paranoid of the possibility of bell being scum just cause i had not really considered it in a while

but the just complete lack of regard for his own preservation by proposing to myko solidifies him as town imo

[fireisredsir]

its not obvious what choice myko will make, but if bell were scum he could have picked a way safer option

the only reason to choose myko is if he is genuinely trying to scumhunt

[fireisredsir]

or like a super bold wifom play but that seems p unlikely

[fireisredsir]

Who would Bell have picked as a safer option as mafia?

i mean, i would have reluctantly accepted, i assume there are others who townread bell more strongly than they townread their partners

[fireisredsir]

revealing that passion more clearly in the game in a moment of lost self-control

hmm maybe you could be a romantic dancer after all

[fireisredsir]

ye i wanted bell to pair with someone else bc i think that would have a higher chance of hitting a scum than ceph

but my bell tr is stronger than my ceph tr so I would have accepted if he did ask, but i woulda been kinda sad about it

[fireisredsir]

our hood got less boring

[fireisredsir]

not yet but probably next phase

[fireisredsir]

hi

dunn very likely town. bell still probably town also. ​myko feels slightly townier than he did at first but idk

[fireisredsir]

Who do you think we should vote out today?

posting more shortly i just realized its prob better not to cram all my thoughts into one wall and break it up a bit. typing thought #2 rn

[fireisredsir]

ok so ive been sus of lukewarm for a bit. i talked about this in the hood a little but not in the thread cause i wanted to watch and see how he started this phase, but some of his reads feel like they could be politically chosen. meaning that he is choosing reads based on what benefits him and then coming up with ways to justify them rather than a natural progression of reasons informing the reads. examples:

1) his scumread on myko. this was what triggered me to think this in the first place. i thought 1693 was strange bc i didn't think it was a point that only applied to myko, but he was using it as a reason to scumread him. i think when people are selective like that, usually they are either tunneled/confbiased, or they're being political in their read choices. since there is a clear benefit to luke to scumread myko, i feel like it could be a sign of it being political. the benefit is that this was before bell broke up the pairing, and enchant/myko was a pairing that was likely to gather some votes and probably the highest chance at being the lim. i think there is enough suspicion of luke/mala out there that scum luke would want to make sure he is positioned to vote the other pairing that will be gathering votes.

2) similarly, scumreading enchant and reinforcing that read by saying dunn's case was really good in 1611, and 1618. easier in hindsight but i said this before the enchant flip anyway, that i think the case was towny but not necessarily that convincing. same benefit as the myko suspicion.

3) once the myko/enchant pairing is no more, he has transitioned to andante/ginngie, which is probably the new likely pairing to be gathering a lot of votes. he's expressed suspicion there before, so it's not out of nowhere, but there is a clear benefit to him switching his focus there now

4) the dunn scumread when they were two of the more likely to be left behind (along with noraa). the scumread went away once that phase was over. benefit is obvious, but it is also understandable, since i had a similar progression on dunn

5) the datisi townread. i think this read is p weakly supported and idk why he would be townreading datisi here. the progression is also questionable, with having him in null (and less towny than 6 other names) in 867, but in 2032 and 2042 he says that the strong townread came from the post sequence starting around 625, which is well before 867. the scum benefit is that he now strongly townreads dunn and so it's a read that he can more safely commit to making since he's likely not going to vote that pairing


i know that is a lot of words for me to then say that i don't feel super strongly that this is scum, but... that's how it is. basically, it's hard to criticize his reads and progressions, bc i think luke is the kind of player who as scum will be careful to make sure that they are all well-justified and supported through his play. and a lot of these reads are ones that i agree with. so on one hand, i naturally want to see it as town. but on the other hand, i can see clear potential scum motivation behind the way that his reads are evolving and shifting and which ones he is choosing to focus on at what times, and it has come up enough that i think this is more likely to be scum luke. mala is also null at best so this is my preferred vote today

VOTE: Luke+mala

[fireisredsir]

re: myko's hood analysis, some useful info potentially is that i think i mostly encouraged ceph to post more. ive never danced before so idk standard strategy, but mostly i just thought it would be fun to use since we have it, and have been viewing it mostly as a tool to help us sort each other, since i often like to try to sort people based on 1 on 1 interactions. i specifically was looking for dance partners who i thought i could do this with. i think it's probably +town for ceph to not be super eager to use the hood? unless he is as scum just trying to be careful about not wanting to look like he's pocketing me since he would know that i would be watching out for that

[fireisredsir]

I find a simple bit of irony in in the fact that the two people voting me, are:

Ginngie, who is trying to argue that I am completely unable to "continue to support my reads with the new content that is generated"
and
Fire, who concluded that "it's hard to criticize his reads and progressions, bc i think luke kind of player who as scum will be careful to make sure that they are all well-justified and supported through his play"

yea i actually really didn't like ginngie's push on you or how that whole thing went down so that makes me a lil hesitant

[fireisredsir]

it didn't disappear. her most recent post:

My top SRs are myko/Luke/Datisi right now.. ama lets go, what do you want to know?

Why are you not currently voting for any of these names?

What happened to your fire scum read?

it's still there, I'm choosing to ignore it though, the pt has a lot of me quoting stuff fire says and telling ginggie I SR fire.... fun facts!!!

[fireisredsir]

gj luke

[fireisredsir]

It's still a shit move.

why

[fireisredsir]

anyone have a read on whether scum are happy with the gamestate or scared to do anything

yeah me neither

if i were to guess it would be that they are happy with who is likely to be the top choices for elimination and don't want to mess with any of the pair dynamics

[fireisredsir]

there's 4 pairs left and 2 scum. there must be at least 2 pairs that are fully town. i think there's a lot of reasons why scum might not want to shoot their own partners (if they aren't paired together). the question is, why would scum choose not to shoot in one of the fully town pairs?

the two possible reasons i can think of:
- those pairs are likely to get elimmed
- among those players, there's too much risk that whoever gets left behind will ask to pair with someone who is paired with scum

the second possibility imo points to datisi or maybe myko as scum. dunn is the most townread player and likely would leave datisi if given the chance. bell is also pretty townread and i think might leave myko depending on who asks?

[fireisredsir]

i was worried about ginngie previously, but if ginngie is scum there's not a lot of reason for her to not just locktown you, andante. there's no good scum motivation behind her starting to doubt you being town because you will have exactly that reaction of wanting to leave

[fireisredsir]

i know you might not listen to me or care but w/e

[fireisredsir]

??

either you're S/S, T/S, or T/T. i don't think you're S/S. i don't think T/S with gingee as scum is likely anymore, although I did before. that's what im telling you. T/S with you as scum is possible but i don't think it fits with the no nightkill. T/T is most likely imo

[fireisredsir]

ok if we’re TT and you and ceph are TT, who are the 2 scum?

if we are, then i would say it's probably datisi/myko. im not sure on ceph but ive been considering possible worlds where he is scum and i don't quite understand the lack of nightkill in that case

[fireisredsir]

i know you might not listen to me or care but w/e

hey, I might!

You speak with words, you see. I posted a few of them yesterday, would you fancy taking a look at them and telling me whether they are written by an idiot?

im not really sure what you're saying here tbh. if you mean your partner analysis on mala, i thought that was fine and reasonable

[fireisredsir]

anything that felt like reaching to you? Because it can always go multiple ways with partner analysis.

reading dunn as town is right but uninspiring. agreed with the andante read mostly cause mala felt like she was trying to pocket there, even though i misread that interaction originally. didn't really follow where you landed on ginngie

[fireisredsir]

ok if we’re TT and you and ceph are TT, who are the 2 scum?

if we are, then i would say it's probably datisi/myko. im not sure on ceph but ive been considering possible worlds where he is scum and i don't quite understand the lack of nightkill in that case

so it all comes down to lack of night kill? I mean, who would it make sense for scum!ceph to kill? he can't kill me, I town cased him, I think he's town, ummm can't kill myko or bell, neither is widely TRed, both could be easy pushes, he can't kill in dunn/dats cause that would be where his partner is tbh... like, scum!ceph can't really kill anyone

i think if it's ceph with datisi they could kill ginngie, or possibly bell, if they think that myko won't pair with dunn. if it's ceph with anyone else, they could kill dunn. idk, it's not that strong, im not saying that its for sure not ceph bc ceph would guaranteed kill, im just saying it doesn't quite fit as well for me

[fireisredsir]

idk where you got that i think ceph is for sure town. my mind is not anywhere close to made up on that

[fireisredsir]

why does us not interacting much mean there's a scum in us

i think most dance partners aren't interacting that much in thread

[fireisredsir]

why kill ginngie who keeps saying she for sure leaves me, and no way we do final dance? cause to maf, if we are T/T, you just look at us and you go "lol they're def leaving" OR.... "Ginngie and Andante both have wrong reads, so leave them be..." and that's more what I'm thinking here

i think she only really started saying that after this phase started? idk i didn't get the impression from her earlier that she was def gonna leave

[fireisredsir]

why does us not interacting much mean there's a scum in us

i think most dance partners aren't interacting that much in thread

I mean, scum has no incentive to actually read their partner, or actually voice "hey I don't tr my partner" cause scum needs everyone to fully believe their partner is town.... like if I were scum here, me yelling "GINNGIE NOT TOWN!!!" in no way helps here.. cause we both die if voted out... Dunn is talking about Datisi, I like that, I TR Dunn. You and ceph... are not talking like at all... like earlier ceph just going "I trust fire with my andante read" like, that implies ceph TRs you, but I haven't seen a whole lot from ceph about why you're town...

ok but this is why i was townreading ginngie. she has no scum motivation to come into this phase doubting her TR on you if she's scum and you're town

[fireisredsir]

you can't tell me you genuinely believed all game neither of us is going to leave... like its been very clear one of us is leaving

at one point it seemed like you wanted to, and then it seemed like you both wanted to solve together. it also looked kinda like she was pocketing you for a bit, in which case i wouldn't expect either of you to leave. she didn't seem to be scumreading you at all either, so if she was scum and you were town, i wouldn't expect either of you to leave.

so yea. until this phase started i didn't think either of you were going to leave

[fireisredsir]

umm she's trying to get ahead of my push on her. she went very silent in the PT, and that did not go un noticed (PT is cancelled now, I'm not using it) but like, this goes back to me just being an easy push. Like, why does Ginngie even sr me?? cause I'm not playing by an agenda??? right...

you two are tied together. what does her scumreading you accomplish if she's scum?

[fireisredsir]

who do you think doesn't kill?

datisi/myko as reasoned in 2288. looks like similar as your first reason in 2365. if it's your second angle, mm, not sure. like, bell kind of fits that, but i don't think he's scum. dunn doesn't fit that cause he wants datisi gone, i think, and i think he's town anyway. i don't think either of andante/ginngie fit that since they've gotten some suspicion lately, i don't think i would qualify them as "doing well". so, uh, that leaves you?

[fireisredsir]

hi whats up

ive been second guessing things a lot which is usually not good for me, and i think i should probably not overthink things and just trust in the idea that any scumteam that doesn't have datisi on it would kill dunn, and therefore has no reason to no-kill

[fireisredsir]

I doubt it, she'll vote the right one at the end.

You know, what if Datisi isn't scum. It's easy enough to go along as long as he isn't here, but imagine he isn't. There's still a bunch of townie looking posts there, and I'm not getting much from meta as of now. Even the mala interaction you see in your PT could be unlucky.

What's going on in this game here then?

don't really love this from myko since it feels more like prompting other people to think about this possibility rather than just his own musings or thoughts on the matter

[fireisredsir]

fire was probably getting taken by whoever.

untrue. don't think he'd have accepted most people, at least at the time, and idt he would have been a popular choice either

agreed here. i think dunn would be the most likely choice for most people, possibly bell. and that's another reason why datisi and myko are sus off the no-kill

[fireisredsir]

yes, pls, i said this right after the no kill, that's why i think datisi and myko are the most likely. either someone could kill bell/Dunn, or whoever gets left ends up asking to pair with them, leaving datisi or myko behind. a no kill makes the most sense in a world where they are scum

[fireisredsir]

i still think removing pairs through voting is ideal when possible

[fireisredsir]

we have 5 days to deadline, im not in a rush to vote unless someone starts getting antsy to leave

datisi, why do you think a ginnie and ceph team would no-kill?

[fireisredsir]

a while ago, ceph was shading ginngie in our hood in a way that idk why he would do if he were partners with her. since he wasn't really doing it in thread, and all it did was draw my attention to her

[fireisredsir]

shading in thread can be performance or distancing. saying it to me isn't really putting up any appearances, draws my attention to her, and basically only ever helps him in this specific situation where i am considering them as a team and remember that post. just seems less likely to me

[fireisredsir]

i also still just really think ginngie if scum would be doing everything possible to not make you want to leave. i think that would be p easy to do tbh and she is not even trying

[fireisredsir]

assuming you're not s/s etc etc

[fireisredsir]

yea idk

VOTE: datisi-dunn

[fireisredsir]

i mean i guess waiting for any Dunn final thoughts would have been nice but idk if he had any

[fireisredsir]

woohoo

[fireisredsir]

i feel like it kinda has to be myko or ceph?? i hope its myko ):

idk if i should be saying this but i might die so lol

[fireisredsir]

i sent ceph a dancing song earlier and he didn't send one back ):

i was a lil hurt ngl

[fireisredsir]

sleep, cry, ouch!, whispered, grabbed

[fireisredsir]

good point maybe you should kill him to keep him quiet

he knows too much

[fireisredsir]

I would but only if you pair with me after.

Bell keeps stepping on my toes.

yes of course, i have thought that bell is obvscum all game and have just been waiting for the chance to elim him

[fireisredsir]

i think i basically never interacted with datisi this game and im town, so idk if i am that willing to put a lot of stock in who he interacted with

[fireisredsir]

really i prob would think its more likely he interacted with his 2nd partner more since he didn't interact with mala very much and ignoring both partners seems somewhat unlikely from someone who i think likes interacting with their scum partners generally

but idk if i really buy that given who our remaining candidates are

[fireisredsir]

That sounds like reductionism to me Fire.

which part

[fireisredsir]

okay that sounds smart go for it!!

my first read of his iso made me feel better about andante town but thats about it

[fireisredsir]

yea i was just gonna say, assuming you're town i think its ideal to propose to whoever you trust most to be town rather than trying to hunt scum in this phase

i could be wrong on that but i think thats the play

[fireisredsir]

cause it makes the final phase a lot safer

like if you think scum is most likely in myko/ceph for example, and you are paranoid about one of me/bell, you should pair with the other one bc then even if we end up in final dance then you can just assume that the other pair contains the scum, whoever it is

[fireisredsir]

yeah if you townread bell most i think you go for them. no real need to rush but idk you do you. also that way if its myko i don't have to leave my buddy ceph who i really hope isn't scum bc the RNG gods can't really be that cruel can they

[fireisredsir]

if it's you I've p much already conceded at this point cause you would deserve it for going for the nutty play around andante and making her want to leave. i don't think it is, but still

[fireisredsir]

is there any possible reason that a bell/datisi team would no kill in the previous phase

i can't think of one, i think that might be clearing tbh

[fireisredsir]

This literally just makes it between myko and cephrir.
And we have two eliminations left. So like.

yea idk. maybe scum was thinking that they could talk their way out of ginngie getting accepted by someone? or that she would choose incorrectly and they could win in final dance?

i think ginngie stands to gain the most from killing andante, probably, or at least thats what it looks like on the surface. so maybe scum were hoping to play into that fear

[fireisredsir]

as long as you and ginngie are town its a win

[fireisredsir]

my vote is on myko but i will admit i reread some ceph earlier and did think hmm

[fireisredsir]

im sad

[fireisredsir]

i didn't want to have to hammer this ):

[fireisredsir]

thats true we could do it the old fashioned way

[fireisredsir]

yes give me a moment im mourning

[fireisredsir]

hi ceph!

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: Cephrir + self

[fireisredsir]

yes

[fireisredsir]

gg wp still sad

[fireisredsir]

had to elim scum ceph two days in a row just tragic

[fireisredsir]

idk if there really was going to be a way for you to get out of that unless i somehow got paranoid of ginngie

but anything that you did to make me paranoid of ginngie would probably just make me more paranoid of you