Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[Cephrir]

Good morning. Didnt realize this started and I'm kinda busy today but I'll try to make time

[Cephrir]

I think prism and andante are both town atm. I think scum would be scared to pair with andante because she's impulsive.

I think noraa is probably scum. Still catching up

[Cephrir]

3. cephrir. ceph hasn't posted yet but i just know that a dance with him would be a dream come true. he would probably be number 1 on my list but i mustn't set my hopes too high. a lady must be coy about these things sometimes

i don't know who you are but with andante taken i feel the same anyway from just minimal impressions of this account

[Cephrir]

236 I found myself nodding along to everything.

hyperaware that venturing into Handwritten Notes Territory is extremely fraught, but is this a real note. this is a thing one says to others as a manner of explanation in my mind

[Cephrir]

ok ive read everything now

thoughts on noraa

insecure about not getting a partner in 220, then promptly salivating over a datisi pair after he offered a mild townread
the above parlays into: i feel like ze is very focused on zirself, meta, etc. and finding a partner who's beneficial to zir over scumhunting. i expect to see a lot more paranoia and less focus from town-noraa

32 is an offer that i don't see as coming from a town mindset
i hated 158 / 162 focused on "poor me" and not reading anyone. if it ended in an andante SR i would understand more but it doesn't

[Cephrir]

236 I found myself nodding along to everything.

hyperaware that venturing into Handwritten Notes Territory is extremely fraught, but is this a real note. this is a thing one says to others as a manner of explanation in my mind

is or isn't a real note?

"is it?"

i guess i could use question marks occasionally

[Cephrir]

Why the fuck i can't offer dance?

Why i need waiting.

Duuuuuuuuuuuh.

im amusing myself imagining a fancy lady at a ball saying this post

[Cephrir]

the one thing from noraa i could see as town is the play around ydrasse but it's possible ze just feels like ze has to do that

also, ydrasse looks town but iirc that means she's scum so uh... i don't know how to read her. idk why im posting this

[Cephrir]

I posted and Bell didn't call me scum. Therefore, Bell is scum.

[Cephrir]

I posted and Bell didn't call me scum. Therefore, Bell is scum.

Are you scum this game?

struggling to imagine what use this question could possibly serve but no

[Cephrir]

oh hang on it says here if someone asks you if you're scum it's the law that you have to tell them damn. yeah i am awoo etc

[Cephrir]

oh hang on it says here if someone asks you if you're scum it's the law that you have to tell them damn. yeah i am awoo etc

I propose we leave Cephrir out, unironically.

you can't fool me this easily you took too long to say it i have you now

[Cephrir]

Okay then do you have anything else to say other than what Noraa posted after reading the whole game? Ze usually draws a lot of scum reads early.

I feel like I have a reasonable model of zir and I'd be townreading them by now

I don't really have anything else to say at the moment, no

[Cephrir]

zir and I'd be townreading them

wow sorry i literally switched pronouns in mid sentence 0/10

[Cephrir]

Why are you confused I asked that question, when I ask that question to someone at least once a game or more? Did you just forget?

that sounds vaguely familiar now that you mention it

[Cephrir]

I understand fire,
Cephrir is a beautiful gentleman and make no mistake.
He is funny, he is charming, he is warm, and I hear he gives the best bear hugs.

But he might be scum this game *Sunglasses*
He like, had a stress response and everything.
I could feel the cortisol from here.

@Fireisredsir: My hypothesis is that two birds of a feather will make sweet beautiful baby reads together.

how did you know about the hugs!!

[Cephrir]

I uh cephrir yoj dont have a good model of my game. Every time i've been town you've been scum and scum knows im town. So assuming you are coming from a town perspective here which i do think you are town off these posts, my game is gonna look different bc you do not know my alignment

possible

[Cephrir]

honestly i expected to get deathtunnelled for that post and im not sure what to make of that not happening

[Cephrir]

i want more data before i start going partner shopping but ydra and fire have my eye atm

i think i trust myself to not get pocketed by ydra more than i would someone else but also i just feel like fire is kind of a kindred spirit and probably an alt of someone i already get along with or something. ooo i just came up with a guess i hope it's right

[Cephrir]

Never have really understood the rush to pair except that now I feel pressured to do it faster so I don't end up with someone less desirable simply because everyone else is rushing

[Cephrir]

Have u considered that I might just be a relateable son of a bitch

[Cephrir]

I derive enjoyment from being funny and cute

Also in some cases I use sass at an outlet because it's better for me emotionally than getting mad

That's the reason

[Cephrir]

Never have really understood the rush to pair except that now I feel pressured to do it faster so I don't end up with someone less desirable simply because everyone else is rushing

Oh look, a decidedly opposite approach then what you brought to that marathon game.

I mean yeah but that was a funny gambit that we only did because we're together irl haha

Also Cephrir is like definitely town here

I feel underestimated ;_;

[Cephrir]

ok read breakdown
prism's SR on me is the worst because it's very sudden and doesn't feel genuine. like the thing is this idea of me wanting to beat good players is meh at best in general. on top of that, prism hasn't really played with me much so having that much confidence in a meta tell like that is weird. i liked the intreactions with me re: andante pairing but pairing with andante is still something that just doesn't sit well with me. there's not much other content that can be juiced out of that pairing, but it's just ... a bad feeling. it feels like the exact move an experienced scum player would pull and I cant stop thinking that.

everyone TRing Dunn is a bad look on it's own. In what game has town dunn ever been townread this way? like if the playlist doesnt look like Cabd ffery peta LLD etc, it doesn't really happen. Obviously this is a very 1 dimension way to explain this read, but explaining it further is hard and I do want to wait for more dunn content to get the most out of the ISO.

Lukewarm feels very ... weird tonally. But I think Lukewarm becomes clear with time. So like if it's like day 3 and more than half of the playerlist thinks Lukewarm is scum, eliminate, no questions asked.

Ydrasse I initially thought was town (after all of the assuming i mean) for all of the interactions with me, but I'm actually inclined to take it back. Scum ydrasse is capable of so much that I shouldn't carelessly give a town pass before day 2 at the very least.

and now im bored and dont want to finish this. i might come back and finish things later

Not used to you making sense!

[Cephrir]

You got it, glass man.

[Cephrir]

control gave me higher standards for mala, not lower

[Cephrir]

okay then uhhh

i can do interpretive dance if that helps

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: here is a dancing bear

[Cephrir]

probably not gonna post today

[Cephrir]

propose to fire

bye

[Cephrir]

i think im going to catch up on this game as a coping mechanism but i definitely might change my mind in 5 minutes

[Cephrir]

both enchant and myko have no desire to pair with town

sounds like a match to me

yeah i don't get this at all and the way the pair formed made 0 sense and i kind of wonder if they're both scum but then why are they throwing

[Cephrir]

as much as i didn't like myko's tone around enchant and as much as i feel like their logic is like, not On Point, i feel like the overall mindset comes from town

more specifically the focus on who should or shouldn't be left out feels like a more goal-oriented thing that isn't common to come from scum when there's not that much talk about it in town, and scumreading enchant right into proposing to them is ??? if scum

guess this is kinda right

[Cephrir]

I had sort of forgotten what scum dunn looked like for a moment but then i saw this post. There's so much wrong with this one tiny post.
"I dont think Bell looks bad here but ..."
no, town dunn doesnt say that. town dunn just says ok stop with bc about bell posting = bell town

the entire read on me was way too smooth. it was just not worded the way town dunn would do it. town dunn would just say like Noraa isnt paying attention and makes no sense.

the lukewarm read ends wiht "unfortunately" nah there is nothing unfortunate to town dunn about lukewarm dying regardless of lukewarms alignment.

town dunn doesnt soften their stances, if that makes any sense. All of what dunn is doing is not giving firm opinions and the reason is so that everything is still in soft clay form. They can play around with it. if one elimination doesnt work, swap it out for another. that solve doesnt look right? throw a different person in. that is not how town dunn works. town dunn's reads are like BAM this is what i think. Changing an opinion isnt a flow-y process, it's more of a bam this happened do you have an issue with it?

i agree with the "unfortunately" thing. that made me squint when i first read it.

i don't think i've seen town dunn enough to definitively agree or disagree with the majority of this. it does sound more like town-you than everything you've posted up to this point.

it doesn't escape my attention that putting out a believable case is exactly what you need to do to survive right now, though. is this coming mainly from thinking dunn is scum or mainly from wanting to live? this isn't a rhetorical question

people townread softer stances because they dont feel absolute. they dont feel like the person isnt willing to reassess. but town doesnt think about that consciously or subconsciously whereas scum does. scum needs to always have different options on the table because they have many different paths to victory but need to choose wisely otherwise it could be a dead end.

town only has 1 path to victory. town must have the exact scum team dead whereas scum can have any combination mix and match of town dead.

i don't actually think people do townread softer stances as a general rule. i should know, i basically put out nothing but soft stances ever

i also feel like another thing dunn is doing is like saying really obvious things.
like saying thinks like "prism is doing this ... which makes me nervous"
and the thnig is that i think that would be somethign that is obvious to town dunn. like town dunn would just be like uhh prism is doing this and expect that you could tell they take issue with it.

agh i am genuinely so paranoid i need a hydra buddy more than ever right now but i really really think dunn is scum and it's agh. i dont know im very nervous to be wrong because im under pressure and my reads tend to break under pressure but i genuinely feel like this is right.

you're making some of the right noises but i don't know if you're producing them on command. i have to at least wonder if you are producing the paranoia because i/we want to see it & im not sure it's really backed up by the iso prior to this post that you're feeling that way

should you be nervous about getting it wrong yet? if dunn was like on the verge of being dead i would find that more sensical but most people havent even dropped thoughts about this case yet where im at

hm

[Cephrir]

Re:Nora's read on Dunn.


I have thoughts but they feel convoluted.

I am not consciously scum reading Dunn, but I am definitely not town reading him either.

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is, but I do feel like there is a difference between this game and one where i was ready to hard defend him like in say Web of Lies or Shakespeare.

I kind of like the fact that Noraa is picking up a difference there as well, since web of lies we were both ready to go to bat for Dunn, and this neither of us are town reading him this game.

It is making me rethink my Noraa scum read. Which is annoying because I don't have enough of them as it is :/

this post is kinda town motivated

I am not as confident in my ability to read Dunn as Nora is

I am actually at a peak low in confidence right now in general. but i just ugh i dont know. like im being tunneled and it's affecting my read on the game in general. and dunn is one of the few people i feel like i can read and theres just a lot of internal paranoia because of the game state and trying to read dunn.

i have a lot of worries about this read because i struggle with my own thought process a lot of the times. like what's going through my head, i kid you not, is like
dunn has to be scum
what if im pushing dunn because i want to live another day
what if dunn isnt scum and then i die tomorrow because i mislimmed them
no no dunn has to be scum
but dunn could maybe say that as town
what if dunn's meta completely changed
what if im being overconfident
no no dunn is scum
oh wait i could maybe see town dunn saying that
oh my god people are agreeeing with me, so im wrong right
wait but thats not a good metric
agh maybe im overconfident
no dunn is scum

this seems like the sort of post you know you can manufacture as scum

im inclined to townerad lukewarm because of lukewarms TR on me that they have no reason to give me at all if scum.

but this post is town motivated

one thing i was thinking about is if scum dunn would have tried to pair up sooner, knowing that noraa was going to try to read him soon

but maybe rushing into a partnership wouldn't match up enough with his slow and careful playstyle

i don't think dunn would be particularly worried about noraa reading him

I think that Dunn should be left behind

propose to Mala

I don't currently trust Prism, which leaves me disinclined to let her do the sorting of the pairs.

Thinking selfishly, I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2, and I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today. So, survival thinking says Mala is my best bet.

at least you're honest

have a big ol feeling at least one mafia is doing the “i will be frank about not knowing what to say or think or do and i want to survive.”

i guess someone else already asked "isn't this post just about luke"

[Cephrir]

So, if we leave out Dunn, and he flips scum, I feel like that town locks Noraa, and makes me more suspicious of Dats. So, I do not want that to be a pair if we are leaving out Dunn.

you get a brownie for nuance.

[Cephrir]

right now i still prefer noraa be left out but i understand that i have 0 power to be involved in the decision anyways and commenting on other people's pairings is pretty much a waste of time. they are gonna do whatever they want

[Cephrir]

i see lukewarm has decided to absolutely lose his mind

[Cephrir]

tbh i was moving in a town luke direction but i feel like 657 serves absolutely no purpose other than to get townread and i don't love it

[Cephrir]

tbh i was moving in a town luke direction but i feel like 657 serves absolutely no purpose other than to get townread and i don't love it

All I do is make posts to get town read, but you never give me a hard time about that?
Also, I am adjacent asking people to put their whole thought process from pen to paper. So.

You must not be very good at it, since it generally doesn't work on me.

Or maybe I'm just getting used to whatever it is that you do.

[Cephrir]

tbh i was moving in a town luke direction but i feel like 657 serves absolutely no purpose other than to get townread and i don't love it

Motivation being that I have not been having a ton of fun this game, and I thoroughly enjoyed typing that post, and I chucked at myself a couple times as I typed it.

Plus, it got out the thoughts that I had been holding back from the thread previously, which normally those thoughts would have been being posted as they came.

---

Anyways, if anyone sees me in this thread again before tomorrow, please yell at me. I'm really leaving my computer now.

relateable content, i suppose

[Cephrir]

I made two larger posts that basically say the same thing. When you make inane posts, ask inane questions I think you’re scum and I have pushed it.

Lukewarm considering every single projected model isn’t the same because the whole thing collapses when you get flipped and it doesn’t make his argument stronger or weaker. I’m not sure why you think it does.

It does sort of line up lims either way.

[Cephrir]

Mala dont make any impuslive decisions please. lukewarm is like the most transparent town in the world. Like if we leave ceph instead of dunn, that's somewhat acceptable. but it's not acceptable to leave lukewarm

Why is luke town?

[Cephrir]

Was not even a little interested in what Bell was saying there and a bit puzzled you'd expect anyone other than Bell to care about it

[Cephrir]

I’ve been pretty clear that I think you might be scum independently of what Noraa is saying because I haven’t touched on that argument at all.

Is this true Cephrir?

Kinda. There's 578 and 623. I don't know what is supposed to be so inane about your posts and questions though

[Cephrir]

I don't usually see Dunn this spicy. I don't know what it means, but I like it.

[Cephrir]

I at least want to think this is town. It feels town.

[Cephrir]

I at least want to think this is town. It feels town.

Who do you want to eliminate?

Noraa

[Cephrir]

Why did every single person who got a pair check the fuck out

[Cephrir]

Oh except bell is still here I guess

[Cephrir]

It's probably bad that the only pause i have on bell town is that he isn't snarling about what obvious scum I am in every post

Hes just town ig

[Cephrir]

I find it immaterial because I care more about what Noraa feels than what they say. As I think they just rationalize the end result.
I think you’d just accuse them of cheery picking if they actually went out and did it and you’d bring up a million arguments through context. You’ve lived through those game and can easily muddy the waters even if ze bothered.

Yes, I noticed you didn’t argue my specific points, but I figured you were just doing that because the goal isn’t to get me dead, it’s for you not to get dead and also, it would be awkward for you to argue every point I make, especially after making that point which would demonstrate a live example of you quibbling over everything. Instead you say it’s true now, so, uh, I was wrong there. Or you repositioned yourself. I don’t know which. *shrug*

I feel like I’m arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Bruh you're so confbiased you're preflipping his arguments.

[Cephrir]

It really only matters what the ladies think at this point anyhow

[Cephrir]

Your bemoaning about how you would drag datisi down but not being willing to swap your partner or even comment on it is minus points

this is something that really caught my eye and i like that dunnstral pointed it out

because if noraa really was that worried about zir dragging a townie down, why is zir still thinking about pairing with me if i'm town?

how does it block you? it gives you datisi so you dont have to 1v1 anyone to get a dance partner

and this part, coupled with the above, is also ??? because i have agency in this? i make the final choice who i'm dancing with? like, i feel like a goal-oriented townie that wants to solve the game is like, gonna talk to me and get me to listen who to pair with, while scum is gonna be afraid that i'm gonna see through them and change my mind and is trying to shut the idea down before it even sets off

this hadn't caught my eye until dunn brought it up but fwiw i thought it was a pretty strong point

fwiw my noraa read is also sort of predicated on the idea that ze realized ze was scumposting somewhere around when i started attacking zir in earnest and is trying to change on a dime to zir more emotion based play.

this is actually me giving ze credit as a scum player. it's something that i did in a game quite a while ago, when ffery pointed out that i was playing my scum meta, and i realized she was right, so i immediately turned around and started giving my town meta solely because of that comment. iirc i won that game.

but despite all that i’m kind of like

is it silly to have 3/3 scum unpaired right now

because for me i think it leaves it in noraa/luke/mala/fire but the latter two are kind of reads that are just There right now as poe more than a strong reason to believe they’re mafia

and then the other wolf in my brain looks at like bell but then goes 3 gentleman mafia reads? hmmmm

please don't dismiss 3-gentleman or 3-lady teams. i would be shocked if mods did not randomize this.

[Cephrir]

This is an interesting stance. Just because Cehprir is a lovely person? Or are you town reading Cephrir currently (and if yes, why)?

its a copypasta, so... mostly joking

i don't have much of a read on ceph yet but would not like him to be left behind at this time

I suspect that fireisred is going to want to save Cephrir here. Incidentally I also think that Cephrir could go either way.

i doubt it will come down to you two as the choice anyway. but i could go either way

really? ydrasse and fire both think you are town. explicitly town.

i wouldn't say that, i thought he was townyish at first, then found your case somewhat convincing, and then now am back to thinking he's townyish

i think the lesson here is that im very easily convinced

Yeah this person is definitely dead set in their read and Lukewarm could never convince them otherwise

This is sort of valid. I think Luke got this take secondhand, i.e. a lot of players were treating my fire pair as inevitable even though fire's posts don't actually seem as insurmountable as the general consensus has treated it

[Cephrir]

people want a ceph and fire pair?? fire is mafia... I'm pretty sure ceph isn't

it's actually okay if this is the case. im null on fire right now but feel that we might click well and i could potentially firm up a read on them. but more relevantly, i don't think it's likely that we are going to wreck so much face this phase that we can actually force a s/s pair to happen. so if we continue on and we all become pretty confident this is what's happening, we can just kill us accordingly and that's perfectly fine. i'll be a subject of paranoia if i'm alive deep anyway, so i'm not the worst person to lose this way

[Cephrir]

kinda feels like a pocket attempt that is hilariously misreading the situation

I am unpocketable

lol, no you aren't <3

Fire is my strongest town read atm.

i need to hear more about this nuclear take.

Ok datisi i'll ask you one question.

Do you think scum dunn is going to be harder to catch. Or do you think scum noraa is going to be harder to catch.

I've caught scum dunn in multiple games where NO ONE AGREED WITH ME. Dunn died day 5 in Control and was last scum standing in Mask of lies or whatever that was calleed. I caught dunn on day 2 in control, day 1 in mask of lies. There was definitely another game that i caught them in. NO ONE AGREED WITH ME in any of them. Do you not think that funnily looks exactly like this game.

And datisi, on lukewarm, do you really think that level of emotion and confusion is very town? as i've previously admitted, yes it could come from scum, but it feels extremely genuine and i want to believe it. also if lukewarm were scum with me, i would believe their ability to defend themselves. i would be much more worried about keeping myself afloat and not leaving behind any connections to scum buddies if i get left. hard defending a buddy sounds like a shitty association to leave a buddy no?

i don't think it's true that no one agreed with you in control. andante and std were all over dunn early on too, even though it wasn't really because of the reasons you cited
also it was day 4 when we killed him that game, wasn't it?

[Cephrir]

I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today

you know you can propose to more than one person right

[Cephrir]

Would Lukewarm actually doubt you when you said you had RL stuff to deal with.
My policy has always been “just believe them, because the other option is ew”.

i felt like shit yesterday but it's been 2 days and i haven't even tried to really steer shit

also i literally do not care how bad i feel, as scum i have posted while throwing up and sick, i have posted blacked out alone in a ditch lmao

i am concerned about your life choices

[Cephrir]

I'm standin' there
On a balcony in summer air
See the lights, see the party, the ball gowns
See you make your way through the crowd
And say, "Hello"

~Yes to @Luke~

:/

any reason for this?

[Cephrir]

fwiw my noraa read is also sort of predicated on the idea that ze realized ze was scumposting somewhere around when i started attacking zir in earnest and is trying to change on a dime to zir more emotion based play.

this is actually me giving ze credit as a scum player. it's something that i did in a game quite a while ago, when ffery pointed out that i was playing my scum meta, and i realized she was right, so i immediately turned around and started giving my town meta solely because of that comment. iirc i won that game.

no one's ever been able to understand my thought process. you cant either.

be that as it may i am nonetheless going to try to play mafia and not throw up my hands and say okay noraa is literally impossible to read so i guess i'll townbin zir forever

[Cephrir]

i don't think it's true that no one agreed with you in control.

yeah so you dont think dunn getting mass TRs looks like what this game looks like? im sorry i missed two people one who barely voiced their opinion and the other who jumped on and off every single wagon at some point in time.

crazy that i called that no one agreed with me.

i don't think he had mass TRs in that game nor do i think he does in this game

sorry im not trying to upset you but it seems like i am

[Cephrir]

i guess i'll townbin zir forever

did i ever say this? no, i didnt.

how should i read you then (disclaimer: i am probably not going to change my approach based on the answer so feel free to spend your time on something more useful and ignore me)

[Cephrir]

Glad to see Luke is finally in the building. I'm even somewhat persuaded by his fire town case.

I'm still pretty sure Luke is town tbh like, how does maf put in this level of effort??

I think he can probably do the effort as scum, but I did like the substance of it as far as being real scumhunting.

[Cephrir]

Do your reread, the meta defenses are boring

[Cephrir]

hm

is there like, any meta for you trying this hard

it seems unusual to me but i've only played with you a handful of times

[Cephrir]

i guess i could just get off my ass and look myself (and collect a townread from lukewarm in the process! ) but im kinda busy today.

[Cephrir]

Not sure why dunn scum uses his time this way

[Cephrir]

This is very hard to care about

[Cephrir]

This game was fun up until like 4 pages ago and it will probably be fun again when the involved parties shut up about meta and mathematically calculating lurking

[Cephrir]

Your posts are dense and I'm dense. It's a bad combination.

[Cephrir]

Good news: I can understand those ones. I even tracked down the datisi post. I think I commented on either 800 or 774 myself at some point. I'm giving myself a gold star.

[Cephrir]

Reading that again is just pushing me back onto "let's kill noraa" but I feel kinda bad about it now.

[Cephrir]

It is probably objectively untrue but prism has so many self meta posts that I've started feeling like that is all she posts. Will be a valuable reread for me someday when I have more spoons than usual

[Cephrir]

*sparkles in a gentlemanly fashion*

[Cephrir]

Hope you can do a good foxtrot, darling (this is bluster, I have no idea how much I'll use the pt)

[Cephrir]

it sounds like I'm just super behind... sorry yall :/

ya there's lots of useful content you havent seen you might wanna try reading it when you can

[Cephrir]

it sounds like I'm just super behind... sorry yall :/

ya there's lots of useful content you havent seen you might wanna try reading it when you can

after what you said last night i am HOWLING but you did work through it, she can too

i think andante has missed more of the game than the part i was struggling with but kinda fair yeah

[Cephrir]

woofbringer!!!!!!!!!!! omg he brought the woofs

i probably shouldn't be trusted to play the rest of this phase because i would probably rather play with a scum woofbringer than a town someone else.

[Cephrir]

eh if you live you won't be able to resist my charms and warm pockets

have missed playing with you tho for real.

[Cephrir]

no offense to most yall, but it wasn't a very entertaining read

duh i wasn't even here for most of it

[Cephrir]

I'm sad.

[Cephrir]

Our love was forbidden ;~; and one sided ;~;

[Cephrir]

i wonder if it even makes sense to post during this phase

[Cephrir]

I think I probably agree that Bell should be kept in virtually any scenario, but I'll explore that thought more later.

[Cephrir]

Don't do it Bell, you saw what I did to Noraa

lol.

[Cephrir]

i drank too much sleepy bitch juice instead of reading this today.

[Cephrir]

Nothing to say about Andante twisting themselves into a pretzel?

might as well use this as my space to comment

i dont necessarily have a problem with andante for scumreading fire but her reasons are ?? almost a parody of herself the way she dug up 3 posts from page 5 and acted like that wshould be enough to satisfy dunn

[Cephrir]

no, ive just seen him around a bit and liked his vibes. i was also curious to see how he would respond to me basically requesting a dance before he had even posted. jury is still out on whether i feel like i was able to sort him at all based on his response

our dance has been pretty boring so far though tbh ):

im sry for being so lame

u have nice vibes too tho

[Cephrir]

Not sure how I feel about the no meta investigation on cephrir.

heh.

I remember thinking of cephrir that he was an (active) lurker in games as either allignment. So it's worrying that he's got twice my posts and a pleasant surprise that there went some effort and thought into some of his posts. I agree with many of them, so it "feels" good. No clue whether they are town or scum.

i dont know if i can remember the last time someone's meta frame of reference for me was THIS old. i was a serial lurker in like, 2009 yeah

[Cephrir]

~Openly avoiding discussion of ongoing games. ~

this is still flirting with the rules pls don't do it

[Cephrir]

since bell will probably do the opposite of whatever i tell him i'll suggest he pair with me! when people talk about our bad romance bad will actually mean bad

[Cephrir]

Seems like mafia was prepared with you running around, with ability to ask to pair with literally anyone.

what makes you say this

[Cephrir]

Because it's most likely truth?

imo "seems like" implies a thought process or intuition but ok

[Cephrir]

im townreading dunn. i have not done extensive meta & don't plan to though. im just playing this game.

[Cephrir]

Thanks ceph scum.

thanks normal bell.

[Cephrir]

you don't have to say scum it is implied by the sneer with which i imagine you deign to utter my wretched name

[Cephrir]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13309638

107-270, 1013

Sorry, what is this for?

Alright humor for me a bit, this is going to be a complicated post.

The setup:

The setup is 3 merlins and 5 vanilla town vs 3 mafia . Each merlin knows the identity of 1 mafia, and the merlin's know each others identities.
At the start of the game, mafia are given a list of 5 players, containing all 3 merlins and 2 vanilla town. They know the merlins are in this list and cannot kill anyone on this list during the first night.
If mafia correctly guess all 3 merlins and pair them up to the correct mafia member, they win. They can do this even if they have all been eliminated.

The players:
I was town
Noraa was town
fireisredsir replaced in as town after I had already died (I don't think this is relevant)
Enchant was mafia

----------

Alright, the stage is set. It's important to realize that this game ran concurrently with this one but started earlier, that is to say, while I was being pushed by Noraa in this game, I had already been miseliminated by them in that game, but it wasn't legal to bring that game up at the time. It's also worth noting that Noraa was not dead, so since fireisredsir was town they would not have been able to take advantage of any information from that game.

I could talk about how Enchant say noraa push me as town and that even after that game ended, they would not give any kind of a read on me, and that they never mentioned anything at all about me or noraa in this game, but I'm going to take a different approach and argued that Enchant is mafia in this game and

used information in this game in order to make a decision in that game

.

First I'm going to go over how that game ended. All 3 mafia were eliminated, and the mafia, including Enchant, had 2 days to deliberate on the merlins and come to an agreement.
They did not come to an agreement. It came down to a 2-1 vote.
Remember how I said that 2 of the vanilla townies would make it into that list of 5 the mafia got? By sheer coincidence, the 2 vanilla townies on that list were myself and Noraa.

Let's sneak a peak at the discussion in the mafia pt for that game, because I feel it is important:

Thoughts on the Muses?

[redacted per request]

[redacted per request]

Noraa pushed out Dunn day 1 - doesn't seem like Muse behaviour to me. I still believe Butterflies/implosion are both Muses and I think Italiano is one as well. Look at day 1 - Galron on Umlaut and butterflies sheeping.

So pause - you'll notice that Enchant

redacted every single post they made in that scum thread before it was released

. With that being said, context clues from the other members reveals that Enchant thinks that both Noraa and myself are Merlins (Muses).

Isn't that strange? They just watched Noraa push me to death, but they think we are muses together. It's a stretch to come to that conclusion using

just that game

as a reference point.

Remember, this game was happening at the same time. Noraa made no mention of that game in this game, indeed they couldn't, but let's assume that Enchant has an informed position in this game as well. They know that Noraa and I are both town, and he watches as Noraa makes claims that they are really accurate at reading me, even though

he knows that noraa knows this to be false or an exaggeration

. Enchant then comes to a conclusion... in order for what Noraa is saying in the dance game to make sense, they have to have bussed their own merlin in the merlin game, thereby their read was never "wrong" in that game.

Do you really think a Muse got condemned day 1 and everyone was fine with it?

[redacted per request]

ok well I don't think a Muse gets condemned day 1.

In the end, Enchant manages to convince 1 mafia player that Noraa and myself are both merlins in that game, while the other is left unconvinced and says they will go with majority.
That other mafia player came to the correct conclusions: they looked at who pushed who in that thread and correctly matched every merlin to their mafia counterpart, but because Enchant was operating using information they couldn't even share with their team, they came to a different conclusion and were unable to convince the last mafia member of their viewpoint.

That's my case, and if you asked me if I believed it I would say yes, I think this is pretty likely. As for Enchant redacting their posts:

@Enchant, why did you redact every single one of your posts?

Because i am not happy with how this game went.

You all can decide if the reason they gave is convincing, or if perhaps it relates to this game.

if anyone still thinks this is scum let me know so i can laugh at you

ok im not as certain as the above implies but this was really obviously something that dunn's been marinating in for days.

[Cephrir]

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

idk i kinda think myko is town

[Cephrir]

the new prism came into the PT telling me how to look less scummy... but that they think I'm town.... that is a mafia slot!!!!

pretty weird

[Cephrir]

OK. Also, you can't actually leave until the next phase, I just wanted to see whether you were blustering or would actually go through with it and attempt to leave.

I'm dead serious. I want to leave. my partner is mafia. and I highly doubt anyone wants bell with me cause all yall were like "TAKE PRISM!!!" that prism slot is mafia I tell you... it is not town at alllll

i wouldn't argue with bell stepping in here if you're definitely planning to leave

Ceph, how's Fire in your PT?

we're moving a bit slowly but maybe starting to have a conversation?

[Cephrir]

I want bell to propose to me and Prism slot gone tbh

No. You’re gunna have to carry that weight.

why is that a hard no?

[Cephrir]

whatever, I can at least try.

I want to leave this dance now

is there any chance we can use votes this game

something fire and i did briefly discuss is our mutual desire to have wagons happen via vote i hate getting to day 4 and being like well i have no idea what anyone has pushed because everyone yololeft

[Cephrir]

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

idk i kinda think myko is town

There have been a lot of posts that I didn't like.

Want to talk about why you think they are town?

sure. i think the main reason was his plan to pair with enchant, firstly at all (enchant is probably the worst partner scum could ask for if he's town), and secondly apparently with the intention of suiciding on him. i think i liked at least one post for content reasons recently. ill look for that

[Cephrir]

Mykonian do you plan to leave with enchant?

I think I'm happy to leave this one up in the air.

Feels like she was just the most town read player in the PL. I doubt a you+ydra pair had even a small chance of going through.

Alright then.

So this is the first person for who it makes sense that this kill happened. Scumpoints for Luke.

I got some town vibes from these two posts. Note that if you ask why you will get a cephrir brand reason-that-only-makes-sense-to-cephrir.

This should be interesting, having Bell with initiative. I don't mind this at all.

Now that we have had the flip, my feeling about yesterday is that scum had their problems sorted before the end of the day. I don't think Luke looked bad towards the end of the day, I don't think Mala went out her way to be the casting vote. I don't think the unbolded acceptance was a gambit. Mala lurked a fair bit, right now I don't feel like that's particularly scummy. Of that pair she's the one I do worry most about.

As mentioned yesterday, I think the game flowed about as expected, I fear that means scum was entirely too comfortable.

The first thing I thought yesterday when the pairs started forming was that.. I think it was actually Noraa? called that it would be scummy to pair early as scum is really survival minded. I've played something similar IRL where pairs somehow formed in 10 seconds to have 3 townies realize quite late that they had missed the boat and one of them wasn't going to make it. Anyway, really quickly after that statement about worrying about early pairings, Prism and Andante pair up. I think that boldness of Prism was town and I had a decent gut feeling about Andante. I have been quite happy in my Bell tunnel and seeing then the "bandwagon" where Bell quickly paired up with Ydrasse after I wasn't so fond of. Enchant being quite accommodating about me was quite weird at the time too. I don't think there was ever a question of Cephrir making it and tbh I haven't really read those pages too closely, but I don't think you can call that early anymore.

Now with the nightkill we get a lot of extra info. If Bell is scum, he's probably the "minor partner" in a scumteam that you can happily take a risk with. The upside is pretty good, Bell becomes an agent that can "choose" an elimination and with so many pairs still out there there's a decent chance someone is going to accept it. I think the ability to be proactive could paint Bell in a pretty good light after today too. It's a small risk high reward play.

If Bell is town this Ydrasse kill is genuinely the best kill scum could make and this is potentially a setup to have Bell be left out in the cold. I have two slight issues with this, but they are personal. I don't think Ydrasse stood out all that much in terms of reads or how much the town listened to them. I think much of the reason they weren't in the spotlight at all was because they very quickly took themselves out of the equation by pairing up, and they were a lady anyway so not on the chopping block. Before the night Ydrasse was a solid Null to me. Further I don't think Bell is actually suspected that much by people beyond me, so I'm not seeing the goal of a mislynch there. I think if this is the case the situation is even worse than I already think as the kill was not in my townreads (and they then might not be so town after all).

that said considering how much text is in this post it's pretty unimpressive.

[Cephrir]

I am vaguely against Bell proposing to myko, because I want to kill myko and enchant tomorrow.

idk i kinda think myko is town

There have been a lot of posts that I didn't like.

Want to talk about why you think they are town?

sure. i think the main reason was his plan to pair with enchant, firstly at all (enchant is probably the worst partner scum could ask for if he's town), and secondly apparently with the intention of suiciding on him. i think i liked at least one post for content reasons recently. ill look for that

What made you think that he was intending to leave with Enchant? What I saw was him refuse to answer the question.

i think something he said a while ago made me think this, not his recent question dodge.

[Cephrir]

Of the remaining ladies, I don't trust enchant. I do not want them to make the final pairing. I think we should leave the most important one with fire or datisi atm.

Sorry, phoneposting and it is late:

propose to enchant

You look so wonderful tonight, may I have this dance of you?

So look at enchants iso. It doesn't discuss other players yet. Tiniest bit of judgement with regards to mechanics. But there is no threat of elimination today, no way to force them to open up.

I proposed and in a way forced them to judge me. Not accepting the offer yet is one suggestion of a read enchant may have, though they only suggest my proposal is "fearless" in some way. They didn't say "no".

I have no incentive this day to pair with town, my life won't be tied to enchant in any way. So fearless makes no sense.

The elimination is going to be in the gentlemen and I think there are valid targets left there. Compared to a normal game I lack control over who is going to be eliminated and I don't think this is the time to strongarm the conversation about it as I may have done for Bell. Having Bell in the final two today would have been the best.

i think scum are going to be aware that enchant is limbait and not want to pair with him, and also the thought process here of intentionally pairing with a scumread makes sense from perspective of a townie who has thought about the setup and feels confident in their reading abilities

[Cephrir]

im paying attention andante

i kinda want bell to pair with you so you don't have to leave but im not sure if thats a subconscious townread or i just like you

but he noped the fuck out of that instantly for some reason ?

[Cephrir]

im paying attention andante

i kinda want bell to pair with you so you don't have to leave but im not sure if thats a subconscious townread or i just like you

but he noped the fuck out of that instantly for some reason ?

I guess you also missed the part where I’m not thrilled with/scum reading andante

i did miss that part.

[Cephrir]

i just assume all of bell's reads are that i'm the devil and should not only be elimed but cast back down to the hell that birthed me

[Cephrir]

i just assume all of bell's reads are that i'm the devil and should not only be elimed but cast back down to the hell that birthed me

Reads:

Town:
Bell.
Jingle.

Null:
cephrir
ceprir
cephrir
Cephrir
Cephrir.

Scum:
Cephrir
Cephrir
Pooky
Cephrir

gonna mislim the shit outta this "ceprir" character

[Cephrir]

i don't know who i want to die this phase tbh

me neither!

[Cephrir]

Btw if it's possible for Andante just demand to leave and I get auto eliminated, I'd rather Bell just propose to Andante this phase, I get eliminated, and game moves on.

Only reason I'd recommend the auto elimination(if that's how that works) is due to the fact that I wouldn't trust Andante with a 10 foot pole in the final dance.

So like legit, I want it discussed if Andante forces our pair to leave, why it wouldn't be more logical to just eliminate me. Spares one town slot at least compared to wasting two slots.

Why not even suggest that you get a partner instead? I get that your goal is to get andante to push you but that doesnt solve your problem of being tied to her

[Cephrir]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

The idea that I as scum would ever put you in a position to have sole power over an elim is questionable at best

[Cephrir]

I'm fine with bell making their own choice without outside influence.

Easy to say when no one in their right mind would take your partner!

[Cephrir]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

The idea that I as scum would ever put you in a position to have sole power over an elim is questionable at best

allow me to rephrase for emphasis.

bell if i had the power to give someone a gun as any alignment i would never ever give it to you even if i was confirmed town.

[Cephrir]

can I leave the dance in this phase or do we have to wait for Bell to do his thing? I'm even more convinced prism was maf

can I leave the dance in this phase

Yeah, you can

I think I'll wait till morning to actually leave though... lol I'm too tired for this... saw a lot of words in that PT... and we called me scummy.. but scummy town, and like nahhhh we're not discussing my playstyle in that PT... hahahhaha ok I'm sleeping before I actually mess this up. I do NOT tr prism slot.

OK. Also, you can't actually leave until the next phase, I just wanted to see whether you were blustering or would actually go through with it and attempt to leave.

Which this exchange left me wondering if Andante would follow through with it. The immediate back down when Dunn said that she could leave right now (despite that not actually being true

despite you obviously having pressed submit by accident i still get it

yeah that was actually uh, really non adnante esque

[Cephrir]

can I leave the dance in this phase or do we have to wait for Bell to do his thing? I'm even more convinced prism was maf

can I leave the dance in this phase

Yeah, you can

I think I'll wait till morning to actually leave though... lol I'm too tired for this... saw a lot of words in that PT... and we called me scummy.. but scummy town, and like nahhhh we're not discussing my playstyle in that PT... hahahhaha ok I'm sleeping before I actually mess this up. I do NOT tr prism slot.

OK. Also, you can't actually leave until the next phase, I just wanted to see whether you were blustering or would actually go through with it and attempt to leave.

Which this exchange left me wondering if Andante would follow through with it. The immediate back down when Dunn said that she could leave right now (despite that not actually being true

despite you obviously having pressed submit by accident i still get it

yeah that was actually uh, really non adnante esque

Andante being non-Andante?? whaaaaat

i have never known you to turn down instant gratification

[Cephrir]

Currently leaning to pair with fire.

why is ceph scum this game

ive seen some of the comments you've made but i feel like they could apply to ceph every game

Vibes they also haven’t done anything townie and I dunno why people think they have. I understand that people like cephrir, but why they genuinely think this is out of cephrir’s scum range is a mystery to me.

I’m not sure if cephrir is saying that I’d shoot him even if he was an IC and I were town because of the “I always tunnel” cephrir thing. Or if they mean it’s just generally annoying given my personality and play style to give me power over other people.

Though in true defensive fashion, I will state I have been trying to do the pressure thing and sort and stuff.
I’ll probably fuck up anyway, but I tried.

if i was an IC you'd think i was a fake IC somehow lol

anyway nice knowing you all have a fun game

[Cephrir]

i really think dunnstral is town. please don't ever elim him. don't overthink it.

bell is still probably town but i dont actually like the way he has handled this day phase very much. he might be happy to use the meta to excuse killing me even though it doesn't really make much sense... idk i honestly think even he should be swayed by what i just said and he's brushing right past it. maybe hes just even less reasonable than i thought and that is saying something

i think fire is probably town from good hood vibes. he could be playing with my head right now but i don't think so

not sure about ginngie yet

enchant is probably scum?? there are too many vaguely townvibey players that im forced to think about that admittedly boring conclusion

im also townreading mykonian

[Cephrir]

if bewll isnt going to kill enchant that option is worth considering the next time this phase rolls around. maybe don't elim him so that this is still available?

[Cephrir]

bell is still probably town but i dont actually like the way he has handled this day phase very much. he might be happy to use the meta to excuse killing me even though it doesn't really make much sense... idk i honestly think even he should be swayed by what i just said and he's brushing right past it. maybe hes just even less reasonable than i thought and that is saying something

i would be MUCH more at ease if he had openly considered and then rejected this but he's just pretending it's not there

[Cephrir]

if bewll isnt going to kill enchant that option is worth considering the next time this phase rolls around. maybe don't elim him so that this is still available?

"don't kill scum so we can kill scum later"

Idk

i dont really want mykonian to die particularly

[Cephrir]

at some point as town you have to have the self awareness to say "hm i scumread this person literally every game"

i guess the excuse is that im actually scum every game. pretty annoying that i get to be punished in this game bc bell hasn't figured out (or is pretending to have not figured out) that he scumreads my personality yet on account of the awful luck ive had in the past.

[Cephrir]

at some point as town you have to have the self awareness to say "hm i scumread this person literally every game"

and dude is like the most self aware person ive ever encountered so ???

[Cephrir]

fire has been entrusted with my andante read

[Cephrir]

I have not gotten the feeling that you dying was currently inevitable, which appears to be the headspace from which you are posting

now that bell indicated he can kill me i think that outcome is really likely even if he says he wasn't fully decided.

[Cephrir]

236 I found myself nodding along to everything.

hyperaware that venturing into Handwritten Notes Territory is extremely fraught, but is this a real note. this is a thing one says to others as a manner of explanation in my mind

I think it may be being tired after work but what on earth does this mean.

My interpretation is that you townread Luke for saying they agree with another player? As you see this as them explaining their thought process?

I was actually going to talk about how I don't like it because their reason for townreading datisi at that point was quite literally saying "felt town" and I agree with them.

I feel like I'm missing something here

he was saying "here are the notes i took" and i felt like that particular sentence structure wasn't the way one would write something if it was just a note to themselves.

[Cephrir]

i was questioning him about it because i found it a little scummy and i wanted to see what he would say about it but it's not really super important to me at this point

[Cephrir]

already answered in 1844

[Cephrir]

I’m weak to AtE you know

this is not an impression i have of you

[Cephrir]

do raccoons not have feelings. you don't seem to fall for my ate!

[Cephrir]

remind me why we aren't killing enchant today

[Cephrir]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

[Cephrir]

yes Andante did post their townread and thoughts on Ceph. Haven't really had a back and forth about it because I was focusing more on Bell today than anything else really.

Good I suppose. Did this happen before or after bell proposed?

[Cephrir]

Btw bell my frustration does begin and end within the confines of mafia games. I have no issue with you as a human and if it has felt that way I'm sorry.

[Cephrir]

Sweet, voting.

vote Fireisred

And I want to hijack the discussion as well: I would like everybody to post the amount of posts by either player in their neighbourhood discusses reads on the game. I think it's only somewhat likely that scum paired up together, so I think the results should be mostly trustworthy.

im not really sure what to count and what not to count. if i include our attempts to read and understand each other as well as talking about other players, like, 18ish each? fire has been more proactive and made a couple more thought out posts which i enjoyed

[Cephrir]

Luke whos town

Bell, Dunn, Fire, Datisi are my confident town reads

I would love to know where you have come up with a Datisi townread from. Slot feels empty to me

Very specifically the way that our interaction played out when I was convinced that Datisi and Dunn were paired together. After I got away from the heat of the moment of it, the more I think that that has to be a town datisi reacting to it.

The response, the tone, the energy was a perfect match to the way that datisi reacted to me doing a somewhat similar thing in a prior game. I would be very surprised if Datisi was faking it.

ok i can't do much with that but thanks for answering anyway

[Cephrir]

VOTE: andante

going from "my partner is scum!! i will attempt to leave!!" during the time THEY WERE TOLD they cannot leave, into "i really tr my partner now!!!" is lmao

yeah i dont like it like i said earlier andante might be leaning too hard on her personality there i think the whole thing might have been a performance

still want an answer from either of them to my question about when the towncase on me was posted in their pt and let's also add why it isn't in the thread

[Cephrir]

why do you think enchant is town

hard ask

Both in the neighbourhood and the threat he's been relatively straightforward, I'd say. Survivalistic and adding little, but not scummy. I think the posts that are there are decently transparent.

Alternatively, if he's scum, we do have to make some assumptions of somehow quite premediated play? Which doesn't sound like enchant at all here.


Fuck it, even Bell doesn't believe in this, and he set it up.

So you were convinced Enchant was town, yet left enchant anyways for bell? See, to me.. this feels like you're scum. Enchant joined me in joking about leaving, and you know that town enchant probaby would leave for lols, so you jumped on the chance to get a new partner... you needed enchant to survive the first phase, then first chance you get, you're all "ok must leave you before you leave me!!!" especially after you were all "enchant is town!!" like, it makes 0 sense to me, to leave someone you're calling town, for someone you're not voicing a read on... unless there's scum motivations behind it.

i think there is also town motivation to stop being with a partner who is going to kill you whether by impulsive leave or by votes and it may not originally have been apparent to mykonian that he was signing up for that

[Cephrir]

Sweet, voting.

vote Fireisred

And I want to hijack the discussion as well: I would like everybody to post the amount of posts by either player in their neighbourhood discusses reads on the game. I think it's only somewhat likely that scum paired up together, so I think the results should be mostly trustworthy.

im not really sure what to count and what not to count. if i include our attempts to read and understand each other as well as talking about other players, like, 18ish each? fire has been more proactive and made a couple more thought out posts which i enjoyed

Yeah, that's fine. I counted the one post towards the end where enchant told me to not talk about a Bell read. About each other seems fine.

18 in total?

each

i stopped counting super precisely because i was having trouble deciding what counted and what didn't so i will say i have 25 total posts and he has 23 (but his posts have more content than mine) and 2 of mine/4 of his are definitely not game relevant

[Cephrir]

(were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread)

there was a specific reason for this which i'd like to sit on just a little longer

[Cephrir]

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

[Cephrir]

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

to be clear at this point i think it looks better if she didn't complete it before bell proposed. (though even still i don't really understand why it went in the pt and not here. i would expect a town player to be proud of their work and want to show it off... at least i would)

ig with ginngie giving her tips on how to look town idk if i can trust them not to conspire to lie about this haha

[Cephrir]

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

I’m driving but red light posting on my way to work. Off the top of my head it was posted in PT and I’ll do time stamps if that helps you.

Also I really would hate to bring out meta but i swear to fucking god if we are going eith this bullshit that using PTs is only for scum. I’m posting my mastina and myself PT from one of my OG games and I’m literally posting the jjh927 and YUME warrior hood from the game i just hosted where it was just two town talking. God this is fucking asinine

yeah i don't agree that pt usage is inherently anything. more of a personality tell. the content is a lot more relevant than the number of posts

[Cephrir]

Bell and Cephrir, remember when you said that Myko was town for pairing with Enchant because he was planning to leave with Enchant. Does the fact that he actually transitioned to a town read on him, and was not actually going to leave with Enchant influence that at all?

i hadn't registered that yet, but i probably should

[Cephrir]

i am surprised that andante is not interacting with my recent content. idk what i expected but it wasn't nothing

[Cephrir]

i am surprised that andante is not interacting with my recent content. idk what i expected but it wasn't nothing

yeah, I just saw it, and was like, mmk sure let me find my "case" in the PT but like, me outing it is just gonna be met with "THAT'S NOT A CASE!!!"

So to basically summarize what I said in the PT yesterday:

Ceph's recent "I don't trust myself with my andante read, I give that to fire" I can definitely see town!Ceph being like that, cause he just pocketed me in CONTROL, where he was maf, I was town, and what he did was just talk me into my wrong reads, and out of my right reads, I've been absent from too much of this game though to really test that here, so that's not a super reliable way to read him.

if you pull up the Cephrir ISO, at the beginning, like 272-280ish he had a LOT of back to back posts, and I usually see town do that. When I questioned someone about their reads, Cephrir called something out, (Ginngie quoted part of it) I really like that, felt like Ceph was actively reading/engaging and trying to find maf.

don't be so concerned with perception i have shitty reasons all the time too

[Cephrir]

VOTE: Datasi
VOTE: Andante

strangely, i find myself approximately here

[Cephrir]

ok so ive been sus of lukewarm for a bit. i talked about this in the hood a little but not in the thread cause i wanted to watch and see how he started this phase, but some of his reads feel like they could be politically chosen. meaning that he is choosing reads based on what benefits him and then coming up with ways to justify them rather than a natural progression of reasons informing the reads. examples:

1) his scumread on myko. this was what triggered me to think this in the first place. i thought 1693 was strange bc i didn't think it was a point that only applied to myko, but he was using it as a reason to scumread him. i think when people are selective like that, usually they are either tunneled/confbiased, or they're being political in their read choices. since there is a clear benefit to luke to scumread myko, i feel like it could be a sign of it being political. the benefit is that this was before bell broke up the pairing, and enchant/myko was a pairing that was likely to gather some votes and probably the highest chance at being the lim. i think there is enough suspicion of luke/mala out there that scum luke would want to make sure he is positioned to vote the other pairing that will be gathering votes.

2) similarly, scumreading enchant and reinforcing that read by saying dunn's case was really good in 1611, and 1618. easier in hindsight but i said this before the enchant flip anyway, that i think the case was towny but not necessarily that convincing. same benefit as the myko suspicion.

3) once the myko/enchant pairing is no more, he has transitioned to andante/ginngie, which is probably the new likely pairing to be gathering a lot of votes. he's expressed suspicion there before, so it's not out of nowhere, but there is a clear benefit to him switching his focus there now

4) the dunn scumread when they were two of the more likely to be left behind (along with noraa). the scumread went away once that phase was over. benefit is obvious, but it is also understandable, since i had a similar progression on dunn

5) the datisi townread. i think this read is p weakly supported and idk why he would be townreading datisi here. the progression is also questionable, with having him in null (and less towny than 6 other names) in 867, but in 2032 and 2042 he says that the strong townread came from the post sequence starting around 625, which is well before 867. the scum benefit is that he now strongly townreads dunn and so it's a read that he can more safely commit to making since he's likely not going to vote that pairing


i know that is a lot of words for me to then say that i don't feel super strongly that this is scum, but... that's how it is. basically, it's hard to criticize his reads and progressions, bc i think luke is the kind of player who as scum will be careful to make sure that they are all well-justified and supported through his play. and a lot of these reads are ones that i agree with. so on one hand, i naturally want to see it as town. but on the other hand, i can see clear potential scum motivation behind the way that his reads are evolving and shifting and which ones he is choosing to focus on at what times, and it has come up enough that i think this is more likely to be scum luke. mala is also null at best so this is my preferred vote today

VOTE: Luke+mala

ah right this. i could consider being here too. wait, that's basically everywhere.

[Cephrir]

That's fine. I'm used to being the oddball out.

is that fine

shouldn't you be worried about it

[Cephrir]

idk it's 2 am bye

[Cephrir]

i don't think it makes much sense to start searching for partners during this phase, and i really need to do my homework, so again i say unto ye: bye

[Cephrir]

anyone have a read on whether scum are happy with the gamestate or scared to do anything

yeah me neither

[Cephrir]

one possible reason for no kill is datisi and/or mykonian scum as they both have attractive partners and might die

the other angle is someone who's doing really well and doesn't want their partner to change to someone who might change their dynamic

is anyone still using their PTs anyway?

[Cephrir]

Well i'd rather that happen this phase than in final dance

like i said I dont trust you with a 10 foot pole in the final dance

It's the literal voting when you can't, leaving when you cant, being a veteran of dance games and yet you do those actions repeatedly.

It leaves a very sour taste and makes me believe you would mess up the final dance by having your emotions manipulated.

Seriously you're worse than Enchant when it comes to yolo leaving and to think I'd risk pissing you off as mafia after Datisi could make a grandslam case of me pocketing you is absurd.

If this was a Town/Scum pairing Andante, and I've gotten you to say that you think we'll win this together and shit; why would I poke the bloody bear, especially after(if I was scum) losing a scumbuddy.

So just bloody cool it.

P-edit: This auto leaving bullshit is exactly what I mean.

kinda wild that andante hasn't left yet just in general

[Cephrir]

maf had a chance to kill, they didn’t. maf is comfortable with the way this is going, NO ONE has voiced suspicion of ceph or fire recently, there’s a scum in therr and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was ceph. I want them out

For Sure Town Cephrir

the erratic behavior is normal but i feel like it's typically more telegraphed and like, not random.org

[Cephrir]

ok if we’re TT and you and ceph are TT, who are the 2 scum?

if we are, then i would say it's probably datisi/myko. im not sure on ceph but ive been considering possible worlds where he is scum and i don't quite understand the lack of nightkill in that case

who do you think doesn't kill?

[Cephrir]

anything that felt like reaching to you? Because it can always go multiple ways with partner analysis.

reading dunn as town is right but uninspiring. agreed with the andante read mostly cause mala felt like she was trying to pocket there, even though i misread that interaction originally. didn't really follow where you landed on ginngie

wow i still havent looked at mala interactions i suck

[Cephrir]

why does us not interacting much mean there's a scum in us

i think most dance partners aren't interacting that much in thread

I mean, scum has no incentive to actually read their partner, or actually voice "hey I don't tr my partner" cause scum needs everyone to fully believe their partner is town.... like if I were scum here, me yelling "GINNGIE NOT TOWN!!!" in no way helps here.. cause we both die if voted out... Dunn is talking about Datisi, I like that, I TR Dunn. You and ceph... are not talking like at all... like earlier ceph just going "I trust fire with my andante read" like, that implies ceph TRs you, but I haven't seen a whole lot from ceph about why you're town...

if you've seen much from me about why anyone is anything, then i must be sleep-posting

[Cephrir]

if Ginngie really wants to play this "hold me to it, I'm leaving in 4 IRL days" game... that's probably scum indicative lmao

??? no it's not

[Cephrir]

instead of actually wasting my time trying to find maf

shouldn't you want to push your reads if you're expecting to imminently die. it's only 'wasting time' if your only goal with scumhunting is to get townread, no?

VOTE: andante

[Cephrir]

who do you think doesn't kill?

datisi/myko as reasoned in 2288. looks like similar as your first reason in 2365. if it's your second angle, mm, not sure. like, bell kind of fits that, but i don't think he's scum. dunn doesn't fit that cause he wants datisi gone, i think, and i think he's town anyway. i don't think either of andante/ginngie fit that since they've gotten some suspicion lately, i don't think i would qualify them as "doing well". so, uh, that leaves you?

shit. rekt.

[Cephrir]

100% truthfully no gimmicks I think Bell/Myko is the other T/T pair. Like, our slot vanishes right, Bell/Myko are just town here and you dont even have to think anymore cuz the final two pairs are T/S.

Idk for me I think these are gonna be my final reads. Like I honestly dont care who is actually scum between the two pairings, since they're both gonna die anyway. So the easier method of solving is to find the two T/T pairs and PoE.

What changed?

[Cephrir]

uhhh it kinda was strong, but then like, I have stronger reasons to SR ceph than tr, plus like, ceph literally just went "You voted fire and I? I'll vote you" Ceph has done no actual solving all game, he literally has to be mafia

So you didn't read my posts?

[Cephrir]

instead of actually wasting my time trying to find maf

shouldn't you want to push your reads if you're expecting to imminently die. it's only 'wasting time' if your only goal with scumhunting is to get townread, no?

VOTE: andante

like, why are you even voting me if it's for any reason other than "you're voting us"

I've been pushing my reads... I was talking to fire?? and yeah it's wasting time if Ginngie is deadset on leaving, like, what's the point of even trying.. cause I KNOW no one is sheeping me after im dead "lol she called everyone maf. who cares"

i expressed several issues with your play in that string of posts as well as previously this is just the post where i said ok that's enough concerns i'm gonna do something about it

[Cephrir]

DATISI WELCOME BACK!!!! Ceph is mafia, we're voing him out, then I'm leaving and bam town wins. gg easy

isn't your suspicion of me based on me voting you

how does that square with me being partnered with ginngie

[Cephrir]

Ceph, what's your read on fire?

probably town

[Cephrir]

Ok, I just had a thought and I think it's worth sharing. I wanna say I TR datisi, there is no chance he comes in going "what the fuck happened" as maf, after the me and ginngie stuff... NOT. A. CHANCE.

Which then kinda just makes reads like, hmmm, cause yeah, Datisi scum has been making sense, in a way, but like, I commented to Ginngie before Datisi showed up that I don't think Datisi is actually scum, then he showed up, and I was like, ok, he might not be, I've been TRing Dunn, myko and bell seem alright... that leaves fire and ceph.

we know there was no kill last night. Kill means someone is partner hunting right? so if fire and ceph killed someone, someone would most likely go to them to take a partner... as proven by the first kill...


I think the team is Ceph and Fire. it's a bold move yes. but I think that perfectly explains why a kill didn't happen

we would definitely have killed someone and tried to get datisi left out

[Cephrir]

Ceph, what's your read on fire?

probably town

what makes fire town

their posts :3

they are scumhunting have had nuanced thoughts and i dont think have ever made a post that made me suspicious

[Cephrir]

Ok, I just had a thought and I think it's worth sharing. I wanna say I TR datisi, there is no chance he comes in going "what the fuck happened" as maf, after the me and ginngie stuff... NOT. A. CHANCE.

Which then kinda just makes reads like, hmmm, cause yeah, Datisi scum has been making sense, in a way, but like, I commented to Ginngie before Datisi showed up that I don't think Datisi is actually scum, then he showed up, and I was like, ok, he might not be, I've been TRing Dunn, myko and bell seem alright... that leaves fire and ceph.

we know there was no kill last night. Kill means someone is partner hunting right? so if fire and ceph killed someone, someone would most likely go to them to take a partner... as proven by the first kill...


I think the team is Ceph and Fire. it's a bold move yes. but I think that perfectly explains why a kill didn't happen

we would definitely have killed someone and tried to get datisi left out

who would yall have killed to achieve that? Dunn?

i can't even think of a kill that wouldn't probably result in that outcome

[Cephrir]

Ok, I just had a thought and I think it's worth sharing. I wanna say I TR datisi, there is no chance he comes in going "what the fuck happened" as maf, after the me and ginngie stuff... NOT. A. CHANCE.

Which then kinda just makes reads like, hmmm, cause yeah, Datisi scum has been making sense, in a way, but like, I commented to Ginngie before Datisi showed up that I don't think Datisi is actually scum, then he showed up, and I was like, ok, he might not be, I've been TRing Dunn, myko and bell seem alright... that leaves fire and ceph.

we know there was no kill last night. Kill means someone is partner hunting right? so if fire and ceph killed someone, someone would most likely go to them to take a partner... as proven by the first kill...


I think the team is Ceph and Fire. it's a bold move yes. but I think that perfectly explains why a kill didn't happen

we would definitely have killed someone and tried to get datisi left out

who would yall have killed to achieve that? Dunn?

i can't even think of a kill that wouldn't probably result in that outcome

hm datisi is scum isn't he

[Cephrir]

so if fire's posts make fire town, whose posts make them scum?

[looks at vote]

feels like you could figure this one out on your own

[Cephrir]

0 suspicious posts to you? that sounds odd

shrug

town or scum, theres no denying he is cute

[Cephrir]

Ok, I just had a thought and I think it's worth sharing. I wanna say I TR datisi, there is no chance he comes in going "what the fuck happened" as maf, after the me and ginngie stuff... NOT. A. CHANCE.

Which then kinda just makes reads like, hmmm, cause yeah, Datisi scum has been making sense, in a way, but like, I commented to Ginngie before Datisi showed up that I don't think Datisi is actually scum, then he showed up, and I was like, ok, he might not be, I've been TRing Dunn, myko and bell seem alright... that leaves fire and ceph.

we know there was no kill last night. Kill means someone is partner hunting right? so if fire and ceph killed someone, someone would most likely go to them to take a partner... as proven by the first kill...


I think the team is Ceph and Fire. it's a bold move yes. but I think that perfectly explains why a kill didn't happen

we would definitely have killed someone and tried to get datisi left out

who would yall have killed to achieve that? Dunn?

i can't even think of a kill that wouldn't probably result in that outcome

hm datisi is scum isn't he

I thought I was scum? so here I am TRing my partner?

i mean... sure? lol

[Cephrir]

so if fire's posts make fire town, whose posts make them scum?

[looks at vote]

feels like you could figure this one out on your own

well I know you're voting me, I wanna know what specific posts you SR. you can't just go "everything you post is bad!!!" I want specific stuff. let's go.

(Pooky, whenever I'm near 200 please let me know lol I feel like I'll be hitting it here)

yes Andante did post their townread and thoughts on Ceph. Haven't really had a back and forth about it because I was focusing more on Bell today than anything else really.

Good I suppose. Did this happen before or after bell proposed?

VOTE: andante

going from "my partner is scum!! i will attempt to leave!!" during the time THEY WERE TOLD they cannot leave, into "i really tr my partner now!!!" is lmao

yeah i dont like it like i said earlier andante might be leaning too hard on her personality there i think the whole thing might have been a performance

still want an answer from either of them to my question about when the towncase on me was posted in their pt and let's also add why it isn't in the thread

why do you think enchant is town

hard ask

Both in the neighbourhood and the threat he's been relatively straightforward, I'd say. Survivalistic and adding little, but not scummy. I think the posts that are there are decently transparent.

Alternatively, if he's scum, we do have to make some assumptions of somehow quite premediated play? Which doesn't sound like enchant at all here.


Fuck it, even Bell doesn't believe in this, and he set it up.

So you were convinced Enchant was town, yet left enchant anyways for bell? See, to me.. this feels like you're scum. Enchant joined me in joking about leaving, and you know that town enchant probaby would leave for lols, so you jumped on the chance to get a new partner... you needed enchant to survive the first phase, then first chance you get, you're all "ok must leave you before you leave me!!!" especially after you were all "enchant is town!!" like, it makes 0 sense to me, to leave someone you're calling town, for someone you're not voicing a read on... unless there's scum motivations behind it.

i think there is also town motivation to stop being with a partner who is going to kill you whether by impulsive leave or by votes and it may not originally have been apparent to mykonian that he was signing up for that

actually no i don't need to sit on it anymore unless ginngie/andante are both scum which they aren't

what i told fire was, if andante fails to produce her town case on me (and just allows bell to kill me), she's scum

i mentioned this in the thread so that if i died and fire showed up in the thread saying cephrir said this, no one would have to wonder if he was making it up

i really dont understand why this case wasnt posted in the thread if indeed andante wanted to protect me. atp im forced to at least wonder if, whether she finished it before the proposal or not, she wants to protest my mislim while preserving it as an option

this is why i keep asking when it was posted in the pt. i wanted to know if andante decided to let me die despite her alleged read of me or would have made an earnest effort to save me if there was more time

i am surprised that andante is not interacting with my recent content. idk what i expected but it wasn't nothing

i am surprised that andante is not interacting with my recent content. idk what i expected but it wasn't nothing

yeah, I just saw it, and was like, mmk sure let me find my "case" in the PT but like, me outing it is just gonna be met with "THAT'S NOT A CASE!!!"

So to basically summarize what I said in the PT yesterday:

Ceph's recent "I don't trust myself with my andante read, I give that to fire" I can definitely see town!Ceph being like that, cause he just pocketed me in CONTROL, where he was maf, I was town, and what he did was just talk me into my wrong reads, and out of my right reads, I've been absent from too much of this game though to really test that here, so that's not a super reliable way to read him.

if you pull up the Cephrir ISO, at the beginning, like 272-280ish he had a LOT of back to back posts, and I usually see town do that. When I questioned someone about their reads, Cephrir called something out, (Ginngie quoted part of it) I really like that, felt like Ceph was actively reading/engaging and trying to find maf.

don't be so concerned with perception i have shitty reasons all the time too

VOTE: Datasi
VOTE: Andante

strangely, i find myself approximately here

Well i'd rather that happen this phase than in final dance

like i said I dont trust you with a 10 foot pole in the final dance

It's the literal voting when you can't, leaving when you cant, being a veteran of dance games and yet you do those actions repeatedly.

It leaves a very sour taste and makes me believe you would mess up the final dance by having your emotions manipulated.

Seriously you're worse than Enchant when it comes to yolo leaving and to think I'd risk pissing you off as mafia after Datisi could make a grandslam case of me pocketing you is absurd.

If this was a Town/Scum pairing Andante, and I've gotten you to say that you think we'll win this together and shit; why would I poke the bloody bear, especially after(if I was scum) losing a scumbuddy.

So just bloody cool it.

P-edit: This auto leaving bullshit is exactly what I mean.

kinda wild that andante hasn't left yet just in general

maf had a chance to kill, they didn’t. maf is comfortable with the way this is going, NO ONE has voiced suspicion of ceph or fire recently, there’s a scum in therr and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was ceph. I want them out

For Sure Town Cephrir

the erratic behavior is normal but i feel like it's typically more telegraphed and like, not random.org

why does us not interacting much mean there's a scum in us

i think most dance partners aren't interacting that much in thread

I mean, scum has no incentive to actually read their partner, or actually voice "hey I don't tr my partner" cause scum needs everyone to fully believe their partner is town.... like if I were scum here, me yelling "GINNGIE NOT TOWN!!!" in no way helps here.. cause we both die if voted out... Dunn is talking about Datisi, I like that, I TR Dunn. You and ceph... are not talking like at all... like earlier ceph just going "I trust fire with my andante read" like, that implies ceph TRs you, but I haven't seen a whole lot from ceph about why you're town...

if you've seen much from me about why anyone is anything, then i must be sleep-posting

if Ginngie really wants to play this "hold me to it, I'm leaving in 4 IRL days" game... that's probably scum indicative lmao

??? no it's not

instead of actually wasting my time trying to find maf

shouldn't you want to push your reads if you're expecting to imminently die. it's only 'wasting time' if your only goal with scumhunting is to get townread, no?

VOTE: andante

[Cephrir]

anyone have a read on whether scum are happy with the gamestate or scared to do anything

yeah me neither

ceph, how much time did you spend thinking before you made this post?

the first part: none

the second part: idk a minute or two maybe

[Cephrir]

this is gonna be luke 2.0.... We sr luke when mala is scum, we sr datisi when Dunn is scum...

dunn isn't scum

[Cephrir]

Ceph: I'm just gonna quote my ISO and say nothing


ahhh yes.. lets quote from the ISO I SR...

you asked what i scumread in your posts

i quoted the posts where i already answered that

[Cephrir]

i feel like having a pony

[Cephrir]

anyone have a read on whether scum are happy with the gamestate or scared to do anything

yeah me neither

ceph, how much time did you spend thinking before you made this post?

the first part: none

the second part: idk a minute or two maybe

so why do you seem to magically come to scum!me via night actions in 2410 once your pair is being threatened

i realized my own thought in 2408 after i was forced to think about it some more suggested that

[Cephrir]

anyone have a read on whether scum are happy with the gamestate or scared to do anything

yeah me neither

ceph, how much time did you spend thinking before you made this post?

the first part: none

the second part: idk a minute or two maybe

so why do you seem to magically come to scum!me via night actions in 2410 once your pair is being threatened

I CAN ANSWER THIS ONE!!! It's cause datisi/myko were the 2 names being thrown around!!! so then Ceph was like "yeah datisi maf" but now you're here, and he's gonna be scared of you, and back far away from that thought tbh

wow you think im bad at this game huh

[Cephrir]

I know but I was so happy there was finally a post I could reply to

How are you doing Datisi, you've been busy, I gather?

why aren't you able to respond to anything else?

you seemed capable of shading me while i was not here, so ?

[Cephrir]

andante, do you know the difference between genuine and correct

yeah, but like Ceph’s SR on me makes no sense, doesn’t feel like he actually SRs me either

it makes sense you just dislike it

i realized my own thought in 2408 after i was forced to think about it some more suggested that

and what is the strength of that read? like to me it seems like you're both saying it's suggested (which i don't take to be very strong) but the wording in 2410 doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation

not super strong. it was a musing

[Cephrir]

if it was a super strong read i would probably, vote you,

[Cephrir]

I am quite happily ignoring this conversation between you and Andante.

i don't feel like this answers my question

[Cephrir]

fire was probably getting taken by whoever.

untrue. don't think he'd have accepted most people, at least at the time, and idt he would have been a popular choice either

[Cephrir]

Ceph talks to me like he knows I'm town

where did i do this

[Cephrir]

Has Cephrir even talked about Ginngie/Prism once?

if only there were some sort of easy way to determine this with the power of ctrl-f

but that slot hasn't been a main focus, no

[Cephrir]

I am quite happily ignoring this conversation between you and Andante.

i don't feel like this answers my question

I was under the impression that it would.

Could you rephrase your question in that case?

you said 'finally something i *can* respond to'

why were you *unable* to respond to anything else

[Cephrir]

reading through page 93 made me think andante/ginnie are s/s both threatening to leave the game

i know it's likely not the case but

I literally put a countdown for me to leave or have the entire town vote us out. Yeah that's a move S/S pair would make. Come on mate, you have to be joking. We got a free mislim and I'm using it tactically.

Andante and myself are town, work from there and tell me who you think is the final T/T pair?

Legit finding the last T/T pair solves the game, scumreads aren't really worth pursuing in this style of game. of course thats my pov and I prefer to townhunt but still.

ur driving me up the wall with this "i'm leaving my partner even though i think they're town" thing

[Cephrir]

why arent you interacting with that conversation

im trying to understand your thought process my dude no need to get all up in arms

[Cephrir]

i dont really scumread you i just want you to make sense

[Cephrir]

but like,,, for that very reason please stay and convince me my andante read is wrong instead of whatever this is

[Cephrir]

why arent you interacting with that conversation

I want as little as possible to do with it. There was nothing to be gained there.

wh, why

whatever mate weird hill to die on

[Cephrir]

Cephrir, you sound so against leaving this dance… yet at the same time you’re really not pushing any reads… makes me think even more that you’re maf here

i never said anything about leaving or not leaving and i am literally pushing reads right now

????????????????????????????????????????????

[Cephrir]

THERE IS NO WORLD IN WHICH CEPHRIR CAN BE TOWN HERE.

i didn't know i was living on no world

space is so vibrant and lifelike

[Cephrir]

im gonna go camping in space on this nonexistent world i live on does anyone want to come

[Cephrir]

i didn't know i was mechanically guiltied by 17 cops just because andante doesn't like my scumread of her wow it must be so fun to be able to bend reality like that

[Cephrir]

darn, you know i WOULD leave, but unfortunately i don't live on a planet and there is no gravity so im incapable of movement