Mini 2270: Spring Fling!

[mykonian]

I could also be very spicy and ask Enchant but i feel like Ydra and I never get along when we're both town so what better pt than that? worst case scenario i get pocketed by scum ydra but shrug whatever it'll be an experience at least >:3

You're giving me maffy vibes right now lol, like this nervous "haha I have to pair up. asap!" feels like you're trying to rush to partner with ydra, like, before there's no options, cause "we never get along as town" like, why is that the pairing you instantly want to go for?

The same post ticked me off for different reasons, but a similar vibe that Andante goes for. That's Andante for the town pool, Noraa for the scum!

*stares off into the distance*
Did Noraa just decline a conflict of words

I need a moment to process this and decide if they just scum claimed or not.
Probably not because they’re perfectly capable of getting into it as scum.

Before bell was just meh. This is double plus meh.

If you ar town, why not just use this to pressure and see what information you could've gotten. Even if you don't believe it and love Noraa to bits, just pretend? It's not going to decide how the day ends anyway.

I have no idea why you'd try to defuse the situation and it annoys me to no end.

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

towny post

Hell no.

[mykonian]

I have arrived

who's mafia

Sorry, don't work that fast lol

The Noraa train is a safe bet.

Or work faster!

[mykonian]

good look since everyone who's played with bell knows they hate scum

The tells Bell is tripping up are newb scum tells.

So you'd say that would fit the bill then?

[mykonian]

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

towny post

scummy entrance

i had already entered

I had not seen an issue with post 66, but this response does not look good

Scum Luke would dream of getting away with a post like this. But there's bigger fish to fry out there. I can wait and see with Luke.

[mykonian]

I wish I could vote, Bell could do with a wagon.

[mykonian]

This is an interesting take. I don't believe you and I have ever played together, what gives you any impression on what size fish I am ? Or that giving me time will make a difference?

oh, not in that way.

If I'd have to call it now I'd eliminate Bell. I could see us getting lucky with Noraa. Not that bothered with Fire.

You? Pretty meh read. I'd need more to go on compared to some of the others. I'm happy to let you be for a while.

[mykonian]

If I'd have to call it now I'd eliminate Bel

why

So Andante is playing how I used to like to play day 1. He's happily drawing fire for me here so I can just let him do his thing. But does mean I feel pretty comfortable with how the game goes.

The way you catch scum with it is that between pushing and pulling town in different directions scum isn't keeping up with the responses. You might get lucky with one of your pushes but likely it's the 10ish people watching the show where scum actually is. Newb scum tries to hit the breaks. Better scum try to respond or goes off doing their own thing.

Fire is responding just being generally meh about everything. They are a bit egocentric for my taste but they aren't walking out of step.

Bell's knee jerk in comparison (the other player that goes with the idea that this is wrong and should slow down) is to actually post just that and nothing else. They spend 4 posts about how this all shouldn't go so quickly and we can all just respond to the current situation (andante pushing noraa) later.

Spoiler: posts in question

*stares off into the distance*
Did Noraa just decline a conflict of words

I need a moment to process this and decide if they just scum claimed or not.
Probably not because they’re perfectly capable of getting into it as scum.

K.
*slams* breaks.
Both of you. Shush for a little. I already see where this is going.
Let’s all lurk for a bit before inevitably losing self control and spamming again.

I’m confident you will never run out of things to say or think Andante. Turn the faucet down to drip. You’ll have plenty of time to reaction test, prod, scum and town read everybody at least once.

@mala, hi.
@dunnstral: I don’t think Noraa has seen my extremely limited in improvement scum game.
But you can protest it, sure.

Andante and Noraa both get into it a lot and it will take up pages and pages of arguments when both of them can arguably be sorted well enough without the back and forth.

Hi myko.

[mykonian]

I know im playing with fire but me asking ydrasse to dance vs prism asking andante.
one is extremely scummy and the equivalent of "anyone want to dance?"
but the other is like apparently so towny that the dance is happening.

how does that make sense

6 pages of game happened. And one happened straight in the opening, the other didn't. There's one and a half pages worth of stuff to read andante with. Ydrasse less, obv.

they are unfair and andante is doing everything to justify a SR on me. that's my point.
and there isn't a clear difference. page 7 is no different from page 1. Prism explicitly states that they think they can sort andante long term. if so, why not wait a little more to propose a dance?

The game moved on already :/ So should you.

The first line is a strawman. Andante was on fireisred at that moment. You are being really defensive here. Page 7 clearly is different from page 1. It's early, yes. It's not the same.

6. mykonian. probably scum. should be left behind, so at this point i see no reason to accept a proposal here. ive heard rumors that they have two left feet as well

You were going to read up on my previous games to see if what you found was a scumtell on me. With my multi year break, I'm curious to see what similarities you found. If I'm being rather cynical I think I'm in your scumpile because Bell is your top town read while they are my top scum read. In which case I'd be interested to see how a. Bell is supposedly town and b. how this has to do anything with my allignment.

[mykonian]

@Mod

Between friday and monday (easter) I'll be without internet. I joined assuming this wouldn't be a problem.

[mykonian]

i accept bell

Ffs, the one player here who could conceivably mess up under pressure never makes it to any d1 crunch time.

[mykonian]

I'm town though!!

Must you?

[mykonian]

Of the remaining ladies, I don't trust enchant. I do not want them to make the final pairing. I think we should leave the most important one with fire or datisi atm.

[mykonian]

Sorry, phoneposting and it is late:

propose to enchant

You look so wonderful tonight, may I have this dance of you?

[mykonian]

??????????????????????????

Why did you swap from your previous stance?

I didn't, I forgot I had agency. I could've asked enchant there, it would have been better

[mykonian]

To Prism:

I don't think the pairing matters so much. I am not very interested in the neighbourhood.

The final lady gets the "hammer" on two competing "l-1 wagons".

Those two I believe will think about it because they have already given thoughts on the game that can be judged. It is the key decision of today, I want it in hands of town or if we get fooled into a scum forced to make it seem reasonable.

[mykonian]

It's the first choice enchant makes this game, something good came from it. Though they didn't say as much :/. Fearless? Hardly, we wouldn't be lovers.

[mykonian]

Aww.

Has it been that long? It all makes sense, promise. The latter posts are a bit concise and without quotes bc I'm phoneposting.

Feel free to ask about what bothers you, I have about 2 hours before I leave for no-Internet land.

[mykonian]

So look at enchants iso. It doesn't discuss other players yet. Tiniest bit of judgement with regards to mechanics. But there is no threat of elimination today, no way to force them to open up.

I proposed and in a way forced them to judge me. Not accepting the offer yet is one suggestion of a read enchant may have, though they only suggest my proposal is "fearless" in some way. They didn't say "no".

I have no incentive this day to pair with town, my life won't be tied to enchant in any way. So fearless makes no sense.

The elimination is going to be in the gentlemen and I think there are valid targets left there. Compared to a normal game I lack control over who is going to be eliminated and I don't think this is the time to strongarm the conversation about it as I may have done for Bell. Having Bell in the final two today would have been the best.

[mykonian]

Do you fancy being the hammer, Dat?

[mykonian]

Do you fancy being the hammer, Dat?

if you knew a single thing about me, you'd know that the answer to that question is "nope no fucking way get that hammer away from me"

I suspect I left before you joined.

I look forward to you being the hammer then, that should be enlightening!

i'm still catching up so excuse dumb questions if it's already been answered, but what's with the "i have no incentive to pair with town" in 492?

We can't eliminate a lady today, even the scummiest will make it. I don't mind scumreading them in a quicktopic either.

The biggest downside is likely not being in a position of choice after a nightkill. But that's what discussion is for anyway.

[mykonian]

I don't want to pair with potential town.

You want scum to be left out, remember.

[mykonian]

both enchant and myko have no desire to pair with town

sounds like a match to me

I would have had I been a lady.

Now I'm in the annoying position with reads but not much in the way of acting on them for any gain.

[mykonian]

Accept the proposal and you can take yourself out of today. We might even have a private chat.

[mykonian]

If I could yeet scum yes.

Can you sense my frustration yet?

[mykonian]

Part of it is in the quote. You take yourself out of the equation.

Me, I am quite open in talking and I think town although you might find me oldfashioned and still a bit impulsive/reckless on top?

Which makes for a great dancepartner, I'd say? At least I'm exotic.

[mykonian]

I am still without proper internet and have about 15 pages to read properly tomorrow, but I did think this was the situation we were going to end up in before the weekend.

It is not ideal and I have my ideas about the final choice and choices before, but I don't think it took any weird manipulations after my proposal to get where we are now. If scum are in the last couple of pairs I don't think they had to do too much.

[mykonian]

Do the merciful thing Mala, no sense in letting Firebringer have to get into the game himself. I think the replace out is w/e, Noraa never really got a hook into this game, it went rather past them. Someone who's more versed in their meta could say if they have games where they are happy to stay on the outside of the town and let things be, but my feeling was this wasn't really the case and they need to be able to make people dance to their tune. (About the latter, I think I picked something up during skimming and I'll see if can make a bigger post about that)

None of which was happening in this game so it might just be stressful to see the game going away from you and people not really taking you seriously.

Still a shitty thing to do to Firebringer who's replacing in. I'd otherwise have preferred a Luke elimination, but Noraa is fine in this circumstance. Both were fine with me anyway and this seems convenient.

[mykonian]

ok, so this isn't the first post Noraa makes about Dunn, but I think the tone is interesting and it's the biggest one of the early game.

ok read breakdown
prism's SR on me is the worst because it's very sudden and doesn't feel genuine. like the thing is this idea of me wanting to beat good players is meh at best in general. on top of that, prism hasn't really played with me much so having that much confidence in a meta tell like that is weird. i liked the intreactions with me re: andante pairing but pairing with andante is still something that just doesn't sit well with me. there's not much other content that can be juiced out of that pairing, but it's just ... a bad feeling. it feels like the exact move an experienced scum player would pull and I cant stop thinking that.

everyone TRing Dunn is a bad look on it's own. In what game has town dunn ever been townread this way?

like if the playlist doesnt look like Cabd ffery peta LLD etc, it doesn't really happen. Obviously this is a very 1 dimension way to explain this read, but explaining it further is hard and I do want to wait for more dunn content to get the most out of the ISO.

Lukewarm feels very ... weird tonally. But I think Lukewarm becomes clear with time. So like if it's like day 3 and more than half of the playerlist thinks Lukewarm is scum, eliminate, no questions asked.

Ydrasse I initially thought was town (after all of the assuming i mean) for all of the interactions with me, but I'm actually inclined to take it back. Scum ydrasse is capable of so much that I shouldn't carelessly give a town pass before day 2 at the very least.

and now im bored and dont want to finish this. i might come back and finish things later

So either Dunn is coasting and Noraa is the only one spotting this, or there's just not that much happening there and Noraa is pushing this into existence. I think the latter part of the bolded sentence felt like manipulation. There's plenty townreads floating around in all games. This is planting seeds of doubt rather than scumhunting.

But as of now, Noraa isn't really going hardcore for it yet:



Noraa does completely flip the switch after Enchant and I pair. With Cephrir being a pretty slam dunk for a pairing at some point, if not for the game alone then socially, It's Noraa, Luke and Dunn in the mix and I think the nerves are showing. It's not Dunn posting something new, it's Noraa going back to read the game and now being convinced it must be Dunn.

In the pages between Noraa's complaint about everybody townreading Dunn and them flipping the switch town isn't really all that bothered about Dunn either. Mala has a null read, some others lean town at times. I'm not saying Dunn's town, as said, they might very well be coasting at that time, but this is clearly Noraa pushing that case completely in vacuum. It takes a lot of very convinced Noraa posting for the sentiment to get any traction.

When skimming this it felt very engineered, and manipulative, though I got the feeling Noraa might be manipulative as town as well. I don't think up till the first day I wasn't there anymore it doesn't say much about Dunn, tomorrow I'd like to read back to how they actually weathered the storm of today and what role Datisi played in it.

[mykonian]

Their focus has been a lot more narrow, focused almost exclusively on myself ever since it came down to the final few gentlemen.

yup, it was difficult to miss while just skimming what was going on. It felt very survivalistic.

Which again, can happily be meta, if you want to look for an excuse. Or it's just scummy if you don't. I don't think it was natural in either case.

[mykonian]

I think Luke's play around Dunnstral feels very Luke. I don't think it's that remarkable given their play.

The amount of hits in his iso is because they keeps using the name in sentences too, and then goes back and forwards with reads like they've done all game. I'm not fond of it, I struggle to read it, I think some of it I gut read scum, but the more I read it the more I think I wasn't quite fair about Luke.

They might be town after all. Before the weekend I think I would've fine with us default eliminating Luke but Noraa just feels better now.

[mykonian]

Yes

I’m very scummy this game. Ydrasse is not wrong.

It's okay Bell, I think you're town

You should reconsider!

Also "between Noraa's complaint about everyone townreading Dunn and them flipping thr switch town isn't really all that bothered about Dunn either." Feels like it is written from an informed perspective.

Nah, I use town as general population of the game. I'm not certain that's still fashionable. That's a red herring.

So in the sense where I'm considering your elimination, I think you were set up today to be the one. When I left for the weekend, my guess would be that one of the less active ladies would be forced to make a decision about you and I didn't fancy your chances. If it helps, I'm not so certain what your odds would've been with Enchant. At the very least we wouldn't be having this discussion.

About tomorrow however, the floor is open. I'm still properly annoyed Bell got taken so early out of the pool and I think even Ydrasse realizes that sometimes a dance partner isn't all they look to be. I certainly know this about Enchant, and I don't forsee we'll have such a dance tonight that I wouldn't be eager to find a new partner tomorrow.

And for one, the Ladies are open to scrutiny at all, which is new. And then, how do you fancy yourself in dance popularity compared to Mala or Fireisred? Your pairing with Mala would be interesting (but almost certainly not scum/scum)

[mykonian]

It comes naturally <3

[mykonian]

Back in your day, emoticons were scummy

As was feeling sorry!

[mykonian]

i wonder if it even makes sense to post during this phase

Nope.

And sorry Mala, I thought I could make the joke.

[mykonian]

you could also wait discussing that till scum have made a decision.

[mykonian]

This should be interesting, having Bell with initiative. I don't mind this at all.

Now that we have had the flip, my feeling about yesterday is that scum had their problems sorted before the end of the day. I don't think Luke looked bad towards the end of the day, I don't think Mala went out her way to be the casting vote. I don't think the unbolded acceptance was a gambit. Mala lurked a fair bit, right now I don't feel like that's particularly scummy. Of that pair she's the one I do worry most about.

As mentioned yesterday, I think the game flowed about as expected, I fear that means scum was entirely too comfortable.

The first thing I thought yesterday when the pairs started forming was that.. I think it was actually Noraa? called that it would be scummy to pair early as scum is really survival minded. I've played something similar IRL where pairs somehow formed in 10 seconds to have 3 townies realize quite late that they had missed the boat and one of them wasn't going to make it. Anyway, really quickly after that statement about worrying about early pairings, Prism and Andante pair up. I think that boldness of Prism was town and I had a decent gut feeling about Andante. I have been quite happy in my Bell tunnel and seeing then the "bandwagon" where Bell quickly paired up with Ydrasse after I wasn't so fond of. Enchant being quite accommodating about me was quite weird at the time too. I don't think there was ever a question of Cephrir making it and tbh I haven't really read those pages too closely, but I don't think you can call that early anymore.

Now with the nightkill we get a lot of extra info. If Bell is scum, he's probably the "minor partner" in a scumteam that you can happily take a risk with. The upside is pretty good, Bell becomes an agent that can "choose" an elimination and with so many pairs still out there there's a decent chance someone is going to accept it. I think the ability to be proactive could paint Bell in a pretty good light after today too. It's a small risk high reward play.

If Bell is town this Ydrasse kill is genuinely the best kill scum could make and this is potentially a setup to have Bell be left out in the cold. I have two slight issues with this, but they are personal. I don't think Ydrasse stood out all that much in terms of reads or how much the town listened to them. I think much of the reason they weren't in the spotlight at all was because they very quickly took themselves out of the equation by pairing up, and they were a lady anyway so not on the chopping block. Before the night Ydrasse was a solid Null to me. Further I don't think Bell is actually suspected that much by people beyond me, so I'm not seeing the goal of a mislynch there. I think if this is the case the situation is even worse than I already think as the kill was not in my townreads (and they then might not be so town after all).

[mykonian]

Feels like she was just the most town read player in the PL. I doubt a you+ydra pair had even a small chance of going through.

Alright then.

So this is the first person for who it makes sense that this kill happened. Scumpoints for Luke.

[mykonian]

Nope, not really. They lost it waiting yesterday and are still spinning their wheels. It's unhelpful, but not even that weird given how they started. It's most unhelpful to Andante anyway, it's hard to see as scummy.

[mykonian]

Mykonian do you plan to leave with enchant?

I think I'm happy to leave this one up in the air.

[mykonian]

This conversation seems pretty useless or even scummy.

[mykonian]

Not sure how I feel about the no meta investigation on cephrir.

heh.

I remember thinking of cephrir that he was an (active) lurker in games as either allignment. So it's worrying that he's got twice my posts and a pleasant surprise that there went some effort and thought into some of his posts. I agree with many of them, so it "feels" good. No clue whether they are town or scum.

[mykonian]

But that means he'd be on pace with me basically. I'm not complaining, I think I've added to this game.

Just, you know, times change, and so do people

[mykonian]

Both replace outs have been pretty shit and I am judging.

Just play the fucking game.

[mykonian]

What made you think that he was intending to leave with Enchant? What I saw was him refuse to answer the question.

Which is one of the posts that bothered me btw

I don't have many secrets, but I can choose to not be predictable. Deal with it.

[mykonian]

i don't know who i want to die this phase tbh

to follow up on this: luke, do you feel that what I've done this phase (or ceph, or probably others too) is significantly different from what myko has done? if so, in what why? and if not, why single out myko for it?

I don't think us three are alike at all.

[mykonian]

I think that this is anti-town right now. Can you explain how it isn't?

I'm not certain annoying constitutes antitown. But if it is, it's antiscum all the same.

It is a decision I can make at a moments notice without your interference. I think a predictable game suits scum fine and we've all been given this one curveball.

It's as if Luke is asking me who I'm going to vote tomorrow and I don't feel like answering.

[mykonian]

Fwiw, I like Dunns effort fine, but I think it's an entirely too complicated way to catch someone who doesn't really commit themselves to the game.

[mykonian]

How about we eliminate scum.

[mykonian]

oh hey i got questions for you, not sure if they're answered yet but I have these on my notepad.

+Ask Myko why they wanted a bell wagon when majority opinion at the time was reading town!bell++Also post 131 by Luke stating that they never played together makes Mykos post really weird. I get trying to meta read but not having one game together makes the interaction not make sense anymore. Dont think 135 was a satifisying answer to Luke about the post.

I think they were scum for the way they posted. I think I explained why too. What the rest thinks hardly matters. I'm still quite annoyed we didn't get to see them at least under pressure towards the end of the day.

But bell being central today makes all that pretty immaterial. I am looking forward to their choice and the discussion.

I feel the second isn't really a question so it is hard to answer. Most of you joined after I left, I won't have meta.

@dunn. The dream is fire, but in fairness this is from individual posts where I'm worried about them, mostly yesterday. I didn't do a proper reread of them yet.

[mykonian]

Also do you mean to say you have meta on others but others wont have meta on you?

nah, I didn't read any other games at this moment. I just joined and started playing.

Meaning my "meta" on cephrir was apparently from 2009 according to them

[mykonian]

Okay idk if this makes sense and is kinda game related but not really, do you find it refreshing playing with a bunch of people, who for the most part haven't played with before? I can't meta anyone here if I'm honest except maybe Dunn but it sounds foolish to try and meta dunn anyway.

I never did meta all that much. I got "in tune" with a few select people? Where their thoughts made sense and but it stopped being that way if they were scum. I joined at the end of where you could consider MS to be small, but I read a lot of those games, I think from this game MS kind of feels small again? Where it becomes that everybody kind of knows everybody because you keep playing the same people. Or maybe people happened to join this game with lots of people they like. So clearly I'm a bit strange in how I can't tell Bell is town, or Enchant is going to leave anyway, or that Noraa tends to be a dominant voice? So I have some catching up to do in that sense.

But otherwise, coming back nothing much has changed really. It's still the same game, It seems like people still hunt by similar tells. I think I might be standing out somewhat but I was always a bit of an agent of chaos in my games, so idk if it's that or that I'm oldfashioned. Thankfully Andante did some of the chaotic stuff day one, so I didn't have to

It's fun playing with some new people and figuring out how they go about the game. And it's somewhat fun to relearn the (forum) game.

[mykonian]

you should push Enchant more often, it makes for good reading.

[mykonian]

I will say it's starting to make me feel old seeing join dates of last year and I've been playing since a decade ago.

yes, I remember you. I imagine you don't want the old account discussed?

I don't think we played much anyway. Maybe the odd large?

[mykonian]

The rest of us are waiting for bell to do something, that is a start.

[mykonian]

I'm fine with bell making their own choice without outside influence.

[mykonian]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13344557

and subsequent discussion were probably the biggest thing to happen?

[mykonian]

Dat, what did you think of enchants reply?

[mykonian]

Sorry, that's too succinct: the reply to Dunns post

[mykonian]

1701 moreso really. I thought it interesting that the first thought was about getting banned, not being called scum. But I could frame it from either allignment, but it's decidedly more devious from scum,while it

looks

like an instant reaction.

[mykonian]

VOTE: Pair with Mykonian

Well then.

The issue here is that it is pretty hard to see you do this as scum but I would also guess enchant is town.

So that's a bit rubbish all considered.

[mykonian]

This feels a bit townish from ceph esp if he thought bell was gonna pair w/ fire

I thought it was ironic given the discussion of AtE around that

[mykonian]

I wanted to make a choice that would increase game clarity rather than possibly diminish it. By getting rid of players that are difficult to read in a less complex environment.

I dislike this immensely.

How about we get rid of scum.

[mykonian]

why do you think enchant is town

hard ask

Both in the neighbourhood and the threat he's been relatively straightforward, I'd say. Survivalistic and adding little, but not scummy. I think the posts that are there are decently transparent.

Alternatively, if he's scum, we do have to make some assumptions of somehow quite premediated play? Which doesn't sound like enchant at all here.


Fuck it, even Bell doesn't believe in this, and he set it up.

[mykonian]

thread*

[mykonian]

i guess we agree to disagree

wasn't much of a question then. Why is he scum?

[mykonian]

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that I'm reading through Bells stuff again.

I don't think Mala ever went so far as calling Enchant scum, if she wants to be this sassy, might as well explain why.

[mykonian]

that's a short term plan.

I'm not so certain about Mala anyway, I'd like her to answer.

[mykonian]

yeah, I missed one, now that I looked more closely.

The other was that they disliked a post. Well duh.

No real reasons given though, so I feel they were getting off too easy asking me for reasons why enchant is town and then just disagreeing without any backup as such.

[mykonian]

I accept Bells offer

[mykonian]

Sweet, voting.

vote Fireisred

And I want to hijack the discussion as well: I would like everybody to post the amount of posts by either player in their neighbourhood discusses reads on the game. I think it's only somewhat likely that scum paired up together, so I think the results should be mostly trustworthy.

[mykonian]

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1

I want people to consider Luke and I both being town then rereading how day 1 played, keeping an eye on the 3 unpaired ladies (fireisredsir, Datisi, malakittens) as well as Cephrir

That is a boatload of reading. :/

Also Luke is really frustrating to read.

[mykonian]

See, that's a way easier question then assuming Luke's town.

Day one would've gone exactly as day one went.

[mykonian]

Pretty hard to see either as scum here.

[mykonian]

It also becomes a lot easier to convince yourself into bad elims by looking at the pairs. We had our policy elim for this game, lets leave it at that. Vote scum or die.

[mykonian]

why do you think enchant is town

hard ask

Both in the neighbourhood and the threat he's been relatively straightforward, I'd say. Survivalistic and adding little, but not scummy. I think the posts that are there are decently transparent.

Alternatively, if he's scum, we do have to make some assumptions of somehow quite premediated play? Which doesn't sound like enchant at all here.


Fuck it, even Bell doesn't believe in this, and he set it up.

So you were convinced Enchant was town, yet left enchant anyways for bell? See, to me.. this feels like you're scum. Enchant joined me in joking about leaving, and you know that town enchant probaby would leave for lols, so you jumped on the chance to get a new partner... you needed enchant to survive the first phase, then first chance you get, you're all "ok must leave you before you leave me!!!" especially after you were all "enchant is town!!" like, it makes 0 sense to me, to leave someone you're calling town, for someone you're not voicing a read on... unless there's scum motivations behind it.

Nope.

For one, idk enchant that well, but I doubt they'd have left this game. Up till last post in the pt that wasn't really on the cards. Which was to keep my bell read up in the air, please. As if I wasn't doing that. So enchant saw which way the game was going and was trying to survive, not being sneaky about it either.

If I am scum I am going to claim a null read on enchant and hop in with Bell. I think me picking Bell is a pretty firm read, as said, I think I got forced into picking between towns and I doubt Bell was that convinced enchant was scum.

So I was quite happy to attempt to take away the easy miselim (help me with the correct terminology here, please), let Bell make a real choice, and settle for a more threatened game after. I did pick a lurker as my dance partner, I knew what I was in for.

Bell did make a choice, one I didn't hope for, but probably they saw through me. I had read up on their meta already, and they are fairly transparent as scum, although some of those tells I imagine Bell must be aware of it.

[mykonian]

sorry, I think the last post was a bit rambling. I'm not feeling 100%. I hope you got what I meant, Andante.

[mykonian]

Ya know we both agree so I might as well share it, Andante and I think Datisi is chainsawing Andante in order to protect Luke and focus the attention on Andante, over Luke who isn't generating any real reads or justifications.

Saying your reads haven't changed from the beginning is scummy as hell. Things change and so should reads. Or at least, you should be able to continue to support your reads with the new content that is generated.

It's the constantly trying to look as if you're figuring the game out that is hard to fake, which I believe Luke is struggling to do.

that post is going to give Datisi so much ammo to claim you've pocketed Andante.

[mykonian]

You are using the PT to exchange thoughts about the game to then present your statement as a shared one. We don't see most of that discussion, so that's convenient. Andante is very impressed too! If I was scum-you, I'd love to get away with that kind of play in a PT.

And datisi already showed he's worried about a situation like that.

I think I'll return to that later to post my own opinion on your situation in particular, I hope you don't mind.

[mykonian]

Sweet, voting.

vote Fireisred

And I want to hijack the discussion as well: I would like everybody to post the amount of posts by either player in their neighbourhood discusses reads on the game. I think it's only somewhat likely that scum paired up together, so I think the results should be mostly trustworthy.

im not really sure what to count and what not to count. if i include our attempts to read and understand each other as well as talking about other players, like, 18ish each? fire has been more proactive and made a couple more thought out posts which i enjoyed

Yeah, that's fine. I counted the one post towards the end where enchant told me to not talk about a Bell read. About each other seems fine.

18 in total?

[mykonian]

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

[mykonian]

ydrasse towny maybe for putting coherent words to similar thoughts that i had but didn't know how to parse

i did think his points on you (@luke) and noraa were decently towny so slight lean there i guess, but im also trying to lean against my natural inclination to townread likeable people

Fwiw, I think that Bell is always town here, and should probably be accepted by anyone he offers to.

my first reaction was to not like this post

and then my second reaction was to realize i kinda agree with this post

and then my third reaction was to think that you might actually not make this post as scum since people might not like it and it isn't really a necessary thing at all to say to further any sort of scum agenda

i feel like firebringer joining made him realize that was who he truly wanted to dance with, and things have never been the same between us since

feelings of inadequacy plague me

i don't know who i want to die this phase tbh

to follow up on this: luke, do you feel that what I've done this phase (or ceph, or probably others too) is significantly different from what myko has done? if so, in what why? and if not, why single out myko for it?

So what irks me generally is just how smooth and nice Fire is. Very little to get upset about with their posts, reads going a bit this way, reads going a bit that way. That's a general gut read, really. They do sneak in a couple posts where they link themselves to the thoughts of other players and that's a solid sign of buddying. I did go back to look for those, obv.

this is a fun setup. so many high impact choices!

This is very hard to care about

agreed, maybe we should just dance

And then lastly, they duck out of the most high impact choice they could have. Such a shame.

[mykonian]

Just putting it out there Ginn.

From now on it's wifom so it's fine.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Mala didn't post much in thread. Dunn did. I don't think they are alike. Does it bother you your dance partner might be scum? I don't think this was a fight worth picking. Why does Mala have more posts there than you? You are solidly more active here as well than she is.

Also Dunn was in the center of attention for a fair bit and I could see him blow off steam in the PT there.

[mykonian]

You concluded that you thought Mala might be trying to influence me, but she has completely ghosted that PT.

yup.

But when you see Cephrir and Fire being approximately equal, you don't seem to stop and wonder who started the exchange to ramp up to that number.

Because I don't think it's reasonable for someone to post half the posts in this thread, and then the same in the PT. I'd expect the activities to be related.

[mykonian]

so out of all that information I posted, about everybody, you spend 5 posts hardcore defending mala.

You are the first person to have a good read on her then, I'd say. Enlighten us.

[mykonian]

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

This is defending Mala.

Spoiler:

cool, ty. Fresh data!

Datisi: 4,
Dunntisi: 9?
Ginngie: 18
Andante: 20 since Ginngie joined
Myko: 0
Enchant: 1
Luke: 8
Mala: 6
Fireisred 18
cephrir 18

so I've done some neighbourhood games, and I imagine most of you have as well. At least Datisi is aware. I don't think posting reads in a PT is townie, and the times I was scum in a neighbourhood I loved doing it. There was one townie and you could just give them just enough reads that they could see where you were coming from and just enough opposition that they didn't think they were being played. Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural. And I could see how some people who are already overflowing in the thread might transfer that to the PT because this game was boring.

Not to say I'm town for this. Enchant just isn't a great discussion partner for mafia, and we ended up discussing videogames and video game music.

I'm not bothered by Andante either. They are spinning their wheels clearly, the game just doesn't have enough input. For people thinking this is some scum ploy, https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum. Completely different. What we are seeing here is Andante going slightly mad with the game, not them being scum. Ginn however apparently exploded in that PT and does a bit to erode the townread I had on prism and ginn in general.

Not as worried by luke either. Esspecially yesterday he seemed a bit searching with his reads and I could see this transfer. Mala however, I tend to struggle to figure out where she exactly stands and this might be scum trying to influence Luke.

Datisi and dunnstral aren't that surprising to me. I could see that Dunn posts a bit more about reads when they were under pressure yesterday, and Dat would follow suit. Even given the awareness of Dat that the PT's are a bit of a minefield, this doesn't seem extraordinary to me.

Cephrir and Fire: That's a lot of posts, and the show Cephrir made of passing their reads on yesterday (were they that certain fire was town, otherwise they could just have done it in the main thread) doesn't sit right with me. Fire also has an amount beyond what I would think reasonable, but based on relative wordiness* (completely subjective) from this analysis I'd think it more likely that Cephrir was the scum of this partnership.

Just boring numbers, but: cephrir, ginngie, mala are people I need to pay more attention to. Which is annoying because by plain reads I'd go with fire, luke, mala, dat, roundabout in that order.

mala posting 6 posts is suspicious, but unconcerned by the 9 of Dunn, 8 from me, or the 18 from fire.

Like, it feels so arbitrary the conclusions that you are pulling from these numbers

Also, I feel like you did not get enough info to make any infrences?

Like, you decided that it made sense that I was talking based off of my play last phase, and you thought Mala was influencing me in that time. But actually, neither one of us used the pt at all during last phase. The last post made in the PT was from before the Ydra flip

This is only about Mala.

Also, Mala kinda peetered out as well. The last couple posts were both me.

Explaining for Mala that you really didn't post that much in the thread.

I feel like I would have used it a lot more with a different dance partner tbh

"it'd be so natural to use the PT, it's not evidence"

What? Mala doesn't have more posts then me.

I'm saying that your points seem completely arbitrary and don't make sense to me. Both on the surface of looking at the numbers, nor at looking at what you are saying.

You concluded that you thought Mala might be trying to influence me, but she has completely ghosted that PT.

You concluded that Datisi making 4 posts about reads would be scummy, except for the fact that Dunn started. Which feels contrary to my expectations for both of those players. Datisi in particular, I would have expected to be very active about reads in the PT regardless of alignment - the 4 is fairly surprisingly low, and the only reason I don't find that particularly scummy is that he was away from the main thread as well due to real life.

You lead in the post by saying once one person starts posting, you would expect the other to "Now, the moment one person starts posting reads there, the other follows, that's just natural."

But when you see Cephrir and Fire being approximately equal, you don't seem to stop and wonder who started the exchange to ramp up to that number.

First thing on your mind? MALA. And then the comparison with Dunn, of course. And the comparison with Ceph and fire. But what's the thing you start with? Mala.



I'm not exaggerating, you spam post 5 posts defending Mala. This isn't about reading me, this is about defending mala. And it's hardly that she's the main push of mine given I'm voting Fire.

So Luke, where is this mala read coming from. Because I'm pretty certain she's null to the rest of the town, and you seem pretty convinced.

[mykonian]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88375 gives a view of Andante scum.

way ahead of you.

[mykonian]

Regarding some replies to the PT count post:

Also I really would hate to bring out meta but i swear to fucking god if we are going eith this bullshit that using PTs is only for scum. I’m posting my mastina and myself PT from one of my OG games and I’m literally posting the jjh927 and YUME warrior hood from the game i just hosted where it was just two town talking. God this is fucking asinine

Emotion is scummy but I can totally see how I'm the old fogey who's spoiling all the fun. Seems alright.

yeah i don't agree that pt usage is inherently anything. more of a personality tell. the content is a lot more relevant than the number of posts

Very reasonable, but I do so wish Cephrir would've expanded on the content then. This was a decent point to revisit whatever read there was on fire and see if there was something worrying going on in the hood or not. Could've told us!

re: myko's hood analysis, some useful info potentially is that i think i mostly encouraged ceph to post more. ive never danced before so idk standard strategy, but mostly i just thought it would be fun to use since we have it, and have been viewing it mostly as a tool to help us sort each other, since i often like to try to sort people based on 1 on 1 interactions. i specifically was looking for dance partners who i thought i could do this with. i think it's probably +town for ceph to not be super eager to use the hood? unless he is as scum just trying to be careful about not wanting to look like he's pocketing me since he would know that i would be watching out for that

Which fire then promptly does do. Town points, I guess.

[mykonian]

I complain how you are so smooth fire, and then you say the words that pour right into my heart and you make me go all woozy.


So I quote the five posts in a row where Luke defends Mala when I but dare to use Mala's name. His defense that I'm somehow misrepresenting is inane, I'm quoting Luke's entire posts, they were in short order. It was a massive overreaction to a pretty scattershot attack, for a player who by his own statement is null at best and potentially scum:

My read on Mala is Null at best. And when I try to slot together a team in my brain, she is regularly taking up that third slot.

These are not the posts you make about someone you might well suspect but don't know enough about yet.

vote Luke

[mykonian]

Actually, Maybe I am just delaying doing it because I get cold feet on resting it all on my read of Mala. But fuck it.

Vote: Leave Dance with Mala

Alright mate, I'm sorry you feel this way. If it helps I suspect I've been as annoyed with you as you've been with me.

So lets not let that end here.

You were 3 votes away from an elim, the last vote by probably your prime scum read (me!) and instead of defending and wondering how awkward scum might be about bussing mala, who you also suspect, you go out in a blaze of glory, just about one day into the phase.

[mykonian]

gj luke

don't give him that satisfaction :/

It's still a shit move.


Bell should post stuff. Lots of it.

[mykonian]

You were 3 votes away from an elim, the last vote by probably your prime scum read (me!) and instead of defending and wondering how awkward scum might be about bussing mala, who you also suspect, you go out in a blaze of glory, just about one day into the phase.

Where are my high pressure votes where I can tell about the scum on the wagon, or whether it was town hammering?

The hard decision is now made by someone who's dead.

[mykonian]

Unsurprisingly, Mala doesn't give up much herself. Her relationship with andante is good though, some posts feeling it out, and going for the kill with something like this:

Oooh

I love the above post.

Andante, i really do think you are town this game so hopefully we can mindmeld more later

how do you feel about luke vs dunn?

The common feature for her long term scumreads is fireisred:

Spoiler: quotes

whoever pairs with fire tomorrow, be warned, high chance I just vote yall no breaks

hmmmm. I can see it now as I didnt like the next page posting at all.

who wouldn't be nervous before a big dance

actually tho weird that you think that, im just p low energy rn and am not trying very hard, don't think nervousness is really on the table. if i were maf id prob be more self conscious about how i sound

i dont like this at alllllll.

cause its a mafia game and i wouldn't want to get caught? idk how the dance play differs exactly from standard, but i assume that is still a concern

same

Fire feels scummyish

im also open to that. i wanted myko left out most but now with who is remaining i want ceph and dun >>>>> luke and noraa to stay.

and im cool with taking some consensus into account if it comes down to luke/noraa cause i don't exactly have a strong scumread on either of them

I mean i wanted you to be left out bc i think youre scum, but hey we all cant get what we want

someone once told me dunnstral powers up in dance games

so in hindsight this makes dunn's posting NAI as if he powers up in dance game regardless of alignment, which in the future is gonna throw off any meta type tells

fml

I think that Dunn should be left behind

propose to Mala

I don't currently trust Prism, which leaves me disinclined to let her do the sorting of the pairs.

Thinking selfishly, I think pairing with Dats knowing that I am his top scum read just kills me day 2, and I think proposing to fire results in fire getting hammer between me and Cephrir, and I am left behind today. So, survival thinking says Mala is my best bet.

Noted & ooof going to think on this last few lines of this.

people want a ceph and fire pair?? fire is mafia... I'm pretty sure ceph isn't

#agree

I think she's keeping an angle open to transfer onto dunn as well during day 1, but that's not as clear as her focus on fire.

[mykonian]

if it helps, she does mention me!

But someone else can have a look at that.

[mykonian]

Ok, I forgot, but Dunn seems pretty unlikely as a partner from the other side too. There stuff like this, which is just a bit unnecessary when your partner is happily lurking.

Those two I believe will think about it because they have already given thoughts on the game that can be judged.

What about Malakittens?

Can you explain why you think Mala is town for my benefit?

What is your read on Mala by the way, Noraa?

The one thing where it gets a bit wifomy reading it from either side is the final proposals of day 1 and the explanation for the choices Mala made:

as for andante:

There's one main reason why I chose Luke. I initially had picked Luke over Dunn & Norraa, but because I didn't bold it I messed up, which was my bad.

Second: I never had an offer to dance from either Norraa or Fire.

Third: The one who was supposed to choose beteween Norraa & Dunn was Datisi.

Fourth: An Norraa flip would have been informational to sorting out Dunn IMO. As scummy as that sounds

And her mentioning she'd follow Noraa's read on Dunn in a heartbeat. I think mala closed that door on Dunn, and I'm wondering if scum would really leave their partner to fend for themselves under pressure like that. It's not that hard to claim a null read and suspect Luke. But either way, Dunn was denied and that's probably as big of an interaction as Mala has with players that are still alive.

[mykonian]

Andante you have like 112 posts left, would love to hear more from you and about why fireisredsir is scum

This just feels townie

like Prism is trying to sort that slot out

and at the same time her partner

and its not the first time Prism did it either

Given this is a way to get a roundabout attack on Fire going, I don't think this is Mala talking to her partner, I'd say that's pluspoints for Prism/Ginngie.

[mykonian]

whatever, I can at least try.

I want to leave this dance now

reminiscent of this.

[mykonian]

I don't see the problem here.

Not sure I believe that they don't realize it's night phase

but what if she did!

[mykonian]

I'd have my ideas about it but I don't think this is the place to go into that kind of wifom.

And you have plenty of reads, hardly a problem.

[mykonian]

I'm happy to go along with that.

[mykonian]

I'd have love to have seen that.

I think I'd have a fair chance.

[mykonian]

there's 4 pairs left and 2 scum. there must be at least 2 pairs that are fully town. i think there's a lot of reasons why scum might not want to shoot their own partners (if they aren't paired together). the question is, why would scum choose not to shoot in one of the fully town pairs?

the two possible reasons i can think of:
- those pairs are likely to get elimmed
- among those players, there's too much risk that whoever gets left behind will ask to pair with someone who is paired with scum

the second possibility imo points to datisi or maybe myko as scum. dunn is the most townread player and likely would leave datisi if given the chance. bell is also pretty townread and i think might leave myko depending on who asks?

I think the first one doesn't work.

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, they gave us an extra full elim (instead of just a new pair forming) right? So if they had something lined up, they could just shoot into the other pair. My first guess would've been the second, yes. But it's very wifom.


I am happy to be convinced about Dat scum.

I don't think it's Bell. I think if you bus mala you do it for points, and I could see her push on you as distancing, but that seems like effort from a lurking position. Odds are, you are on the right side too. Bell for one assures me that you always play that way. I think Andante is quite clearly being buddied by mala and I don't see that as a scum scum interaction, nor really the post that was quoted with Prism. I also think Andante started the game playing their town meta, they just really aren't with it now. I'd say Dunn is pretty town in general anyway.

That leaves three players. Datisi who I don't really know all that much about after all, Cephrir who I liked how they talked, except for when Bell suggested he'd pair with you, Fire, and we saw a bit of AtE thrown around.

admittedly the Mala interaction with Prism is weak and I have my worries about Ginngie at times.

[mykonian]

we could also wait for Cephrir to vote first and say that's bussing.

[mykonian]

no, you'd have to vote for that.

sit.

[mykonian]

i know you might not listen to me or care but w/e

hey, I might!

You speak with words, you see. I posted a few of them yesterday, would you fancy taking a look at them and telling me whether they are written by an idiot?

[mykonian]

anything that felt like reaching to you? Because it can always go multiple ways with partner analysis.

[mykonian]

ok if we’re TT and you and ceph are TT, who are the 2 scum?

if we are, then i would say it's probably datisi/myko. im not sure on ceph but ive been considering possible worlds where he is scum and i don't quite understand the lack of nightkill in that case

suppose it's Dat/Ceph, does it then make sense again?

[mykonian]

I town cased him

I don't remember it, mind quoting me?

[mykonian]

That was the one that felt like reaching most.

So I think Mala is supporting prisms focus on you there. I'm less inclined to see it as scum-scum because she would have the motive of getting more townies on board to put pressure on you.

[mykonian]

fire is... mafia!!!!!

why does scum fire vote Luke.

[mykonian]

nope you aren't leaving.

[mykonian]

uhhh currently thinking it's just ceph, and that fire isn't really thinking about ceph scum

See, we are getting places. Now we can just talk with Fire again.

Since they tend to talk with a lot of words, we have lots of information to work with. Rejoice.


And we can wait for Ceph and Dat and figure out if either is lurkerscum.

[mykonian]

Well it didn’t, but you’ll notice Andante pulled their voting stunt in Datisi during the kill phase and almost immediately after the lack of flip, I brought up Andante. Self preservation that I’ve decided to throw out the window.

I'm not going to say it's allignment indicative, because I'm in two minds about it.

But Enchant did the same and it was from my point of view 100% about selfpreservation and totally not town and yet it was obvious he was. (because just a little while before that he told me to keep bell in the dark so he wouldn't pick me).

I'd very much like for us to talk like civilized people for a little bit, have this day last longer than a real life day, get some actual posts out of Datisi this time and not three oneliners that didn't say a thing, and see where we go from there.

[mykonian]

given this game goes through phases of twitter posting, it can't be a deep mindgame.

[mykonian]

yay, game solved.

[mykonian]

I doubt it, she'll vote the right one at the end.

You know, what if Datisi isn't scum. It's easy enough to go along as long as he isn't here, but imagine he isn't. There's still a bunch of townie looking posts there, and I'm not getting much from meta as of now. Even the mala interaction you see in your PT could be unlucky.

What's going on in this game here then?

[mykonian]

this town case thing wasn't very strong then.

[mykonian]

See, I said this and everyone ignored me.

I read your every word, partner.

What was this a reply to, tho?

[mykonian]

I asked Datisi who they thought was mafia with Malakittens. They said they don't know and maybe they will check her iso, and check my progression.

Maybe they can do that today

do you actually care about me doing this

I do

[mykonian]

I know but I was so happy there was finally a post I could reply to

How are you doing Datisi, you've been busy, I gather?

[mykonian]

I know but I was so happy there was finally a post I could reply to

How are you doing Datisi, you've been busy, I gather?

why aren't you able to respond to anything else?

you seemed capable of shading me while i was not here, so ?

I am quite happily ignoring this conversation between you and Andante.

I know but I was so happy there was finally a post I could reply to

How are you doing Datisi, you've been busy, I gather?

wrote two essays that were due monday, took one exam yesterday, slept for 14 hours, took another one today, so yeah :<

if you wanna reply to posts, i gotchu fam: gun-to-head, who's the scum and why?

Cephrir, PoE (mostly around Mala) and AtE at the point that Bell was going for fire.
You, PoE (same) and I'm inclined to believe Dunns scumread on you.

And then I get beaten by Ginngie who I somewhat think wouldn't be a partner to Mala but has me paranoid.

[mykonian]

HBU?

[mykonian]

i don't know what "mostly around mala" refers to

Some of my townreads came more together after the Mala flip and through her interactions.

[mykonian]

I am quite happily ignoring this conversation between you and Andante.

i don't feel like this answers my question

I was under the impression that it would.

Could you rephrase your question in that case?

[mykonian]

I am quite happily ignoring this conversation between you and Andante.

i don't feel like this answers my question

I was under the impression that it would.

Could you rephrase your question in that case?

you said 'finally something i *can* respond to'

why were you *unable* to respond to anything else

So between that statement and my last reply, there's the 1.5 page long conversation between you and Andante, which is a mess, which I'm not touching as per answer.

Do you want to accuse me of not interacting with the game or do you just enjoy sifting these words?

[mykonian]

why arent you interacting with that conversation

I want as little as possible to do with it. There was nothing to be gained there.

[mykonian]

I doubt it, she'll vote the right one at the end.

You know, what if Datisi isn't scum. It's easy enough to go along as long as he isn't here, but imagine he isn't. There's still a bunch of townie looking posts there, and I'm not getting much from meta as of now. Even the mala interaction you see in your PT could be unlucky.

What's going on in this game here then?

don't really love this from myko since it feels more like prompting other people to think about this possibility rather than just his own musings or thoughts on the matter

I did, but if I answer my own question nobody else has to do it anymore. It's not that important anyway.

How does a no kill protect Mykonian? Bell has shown no special interest in getting rid of Mykonian. In contrast, they have shown an interest in getting rid of Datisi, so killing me should be pretty safe for Mykonian. That point is moot if Datisi is scum, I guess, but it still means that Mykonian is not in any particular danger.

Thank you.

This is why I am slightly annoyed people are bringing me up in the same place as Datisi as if the only reason Datisi scum wouldn't kill was because Dunn was so town. ???

If Datisi is scum and he wants to get rid of dunn for the coming days, either he gets eliminated, or he shoots Dunn and then struggles to find a partner because it is a slightly bit obvious when the person hardcore pushing you dies and flips town. If he shoots "anyone" else, the leftover partner sees neon signs all around Dunn asking please to partner with them. And Datisi dies, with Dunn living till tomorrow.

Otoh, if I'm scum and I want to get rid of Bell. I shoot him, and then pair with Dunn because that's all Dunn wants. If anyone else shot Bell, and I wasn't scum, I'd pair with Dunn. It's completely null with regards to me.

i get that you have a pov but why can't the prevailing logic be right to you/why is mykonian not of concern to you at all

So stuff like this is a bit too easy to somehow get me/Bell on a hitlist for a next day.

[mykonian]

Okay this doesn't benefit scumteam Datisi/Myko tho. They wouldn't want to be in a situation where they have to elim each other.

Yes, it's really just Datisi who is stuck because of Dunns play, any partner works with that. Including Cephrir!

[mykonian]

I just think it makes too much sense that both Datisi and Myko got paired with two highly townread players vs everyone else being scummy pairs.

I don't think it made sense at all, if that helps.

Bell shouldn't have chosen me, but there we are. Imagine he chooses Luke!

[mykonian]

I don't see how it would get in the way.

[mykonian]

This entire phase it's like you've cared more about giving off the preception of peacemaker and getting people to interact, but really you're not doing much of anything.

Just with you two, who if I'm going for datisi and cephrir, are the other Town/Town pair. Who are putting a massive distraction with bells and whistles in the game with your drama.

I dumped my entire reads and all in the night already. Posts about who mala interacted with, what my conclusions are. Nobody got killed, it's still as valid.

[mykonian]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13336480

So why is there town lean and pretty town.

And cephrir and mala would be split over both.

[mykonian]

Also Myko in regards to sorting you, I've realized my main issue is I'm doing pre-flip associatives, and I think that's what you meant by talking about how Ceph could have done the same thing you did.

You can be convinced of Datisi scum, at this point there is more utility in discussing why you'd find datisi town rather than scum; at this point throwing in a scumread just ends the day, but if you're leaning town, it's gonna be more important to clarify that with others as they're E-2, and E-1 with fire's imaginary vote.

At this point Dat is being bussed, or we are being wrong. I'm virtually on the wagon because I believe Dunn and PoE.

Him being bussed I could deal with tomorrow. If we are being wrong I might as well get a head start today.

I'm not voting yet because Fire wanted more day and I'm inclined to agree, yesterday was too short as well.

a while ago, ceph was shading ginngie in our hood in a way that idk why he would do if he were partners with her. since he wasn't really doing it in thread, and all it did was draw my attention to her

Doesn't hurt the partner as much, does it, as it would do in the main thread. You aren't shifting public image so much.

[mykonian]

Prism doesn't very commonly use the reads list at all. First one I found was from a town game:

I'm just kind of in a holding position at the moment. My reads look something like this, if anyone wants to talk about them

Buckets are sorted roughly T->S.

Town
=====
Taly
Pooky

Townlean
=====
Saber
Infinity
ulyana
Ydrasse
skitter

Null
=====
petapan
Toogeloo
Galron
Dunnstral
Dwlee99

Scumlean
=====                                                          
SirCakez
Cephrir          

Scum
=====
Gamma Emerald    

[mykonian]

But Andante is being critical about you!

[mykonian]

vote Datisi

[mykonian]

Bonus points if you can find from mala or Datisi interactions that I'm the one you want.

dunn and ceph i feel like i've seen things that look Decent enough to not wanna murder either of them at this point in time

Otoh, we have gems like these (which is the second time Dat mentions Ceph, the first one being prompting Andante to explain their townread).

So no, I'm happily staying tomorrow, tyvm.

[mykonian]

It's PoE with me going first which I'm opposed to. Lets go for those scumhunter points and win tomorrow.

[mykonian]

And here I was playing knowing Bell and I are the obvious town pair here.

[mykonian]

Can you really say you're obv town tho

Bell doesn't TR you

Bell TR's me fine. So yeah, I'm pretty obvious town. He's just annoyed by me, which is fine.

[mykonian]

uhhhhhhhhh show me your name lol

As I said, he TR's me fine. He's just annoyed by me.


And I'm not into that game, so I'll keep forgetting.

[mykonian]

cool 1 left, the way myko hammered that was very sus.. like maf bussing for towncred? could still be ceph though

I was during the previous night already saying I think the scumteam is Datisi and Ceph. I've repeated that through the previous day. I was always going to vote, I was just holding out because I didn't want the day to be gone as quickly as the last. So when that clearly had passed and we were ready to move on, I voted.

The sus bit would be me not voting while I kept saying I thought Datisi was scum.

[mykonian]

i have returned

i have an urge to ask "why?" to like the majority of reads said on pg 4 because i am not sure i get almost any of them

117 is weird from andante bc why *would* scum quickly bs a read on someone if they know the next question is gonna be "why are they scum" and if you're not prepared for that, tough shit - like i don't think luke's post is scum!indicative, but it's definitely not as townie as andante makes it out to be

127 gives me flashbacks to the last game i've seen someone say "i'm purposefully trying to change my meta" and then they flipped scum, but we'll see

i was gonna write how i don't get 146 because i don't feel like scum's instinct is to shut an argument down (especially since it seemed like noraa and andante were gonna go at it, and if they do then scum!bell can much more easily lurk through a part of the game), and while i still don't really get that train of thought, but:

bell, did you have any sorta thoughts on noraa from 35 to 56? like, going from "noraa isn't arguing???" to "stop arguing!" without like, any other accompanying thought on noraa?

but the other is like apparently so towny that the dance is happening.

??? who said that that was townie

i am Concerned about prism's 184 because bell's thoughts on that pairing are about the exact same thoughts that i had, so the fact that prism is using that to attempt to get bell left out is ??? to me - tinfoil part of my brain says scum!prism would love to get a head start on getting town!bell out of the game before he manages to townspew himself

and i actually like ydrasse calling out 189

thank you lukewarm i appreciate you

that is a very odd situation, in the sense that i don't often see disagreements about hood contents? i can definitely see the scum!ginnie angle from this if the hood really is almost empty as andante says, since i think scum has good incentive to be townreading their dance partner in this game.

if the hood does contain chatter the way ginnie suggests, then i almost think that makes andante scummy? like, at first i thought how that'd be townie since scum!her didn't really do much in hoods last dance game, so why start now. but also last game her partner was firebringer, who constantly kept talking about leaving... and i really did not like 1788

though there is a very easy way to resolve both slots huehuehue

ok, has bell ever talked about wanting to yeet prism/ginnie?

Have I?

Excellent!

[mykonian]

oh

is this about

my ex

.

[mykonian]

You already got the spoiler:

i am Concerned about prism's 184 because bell's thoughts on that pairing are about the exact same thoughts that i had, so the fact that prism is using that to attempt to get bell left out is ??? to me - tinfoil part of my brain says scum!prism would love to get a head start on getting town!bell out of the game before he manages to townspew himself

Now this is hard to see as distancing. The tinfoil head part specifically is just there to place doubt, and probably should've been picked up as a scumtell back then.

thank you lukewarm i appreciate you

that is a very odd situation, in the sense that i don't often see disagreements about hood contents? i can definitely see the scum!ginnie angle from this if the hood really is almost empty as andante says, since i think scum has good incentive to be townreading their dance partner in this game.

if the hood does contain chatter the way ginnie suggests, then i almost think that makes andante scummy? like, at first i thought how that'd be townie since scum!her didn't really do much in hoods last dance game, so why start now. but also last game her partner was firebringer, who constantly kept talking about leaving... and i really did not like 1788

though there is a very easy way to resolve both slots huehuehue

ok, has bell ever talked about wanting to yeet prism/ginnie?

This one feels like Datisi is talking about a T/T pairing, happily playing both sides of the conflict.

i think bell and prism would make a really nice dancing pair

Bonus points, I don't think this makes much sense as distancing towards Andante either.

[mykonian]

im not going to try to solve during this phase (if i try to solve at all... but i feel like i should)

But what if you get killed now. We'll never know.

[mykonian]

I would but only if you pair with me after.

Bell keeps stepping on my toes.

[mykonian]

I should've chosen Enchant

[mykonian]

I find it easier to read interactions that are there and then see which ones do not seem like scum talking to scum.

So for example the bottom post feels like Datisi tiptoeing around Andante because she doesn't so much scumhunt as target people who target her, apparently.

i prooobably shouldn't write an essay on two posts from page 1 when it will be irrelevant extremely soon (if not immediately) *but* if this were a normal game and i were here from the start, i would've voted andante over 12 + 15 - townreading ydrasse for that intro feels weird, but whatever, but something about repeating the same message twice in the span of a minute and a half, coupled with the fact that she had to point out it was page 1 in a "look at me i am sure solving" way, makes me ping scum on andante, like scum!andante is aware town!her posts a metric shit-ton and she's committed to posting the same amount even though she doesn't have shit new to say

Umm only cause I’m doubting my sr on you Noraa, I’m not 100% sold on Datisi town right now, like datisi played a dance game with scum me recently, and I’m not 100% sold this is how town!him approaches this game with me… something felt off so I would wait to propose there… Ydra + You sounds like it could be good if yall both want that, i’m not trying to shut you down!!! but like, I tr nothing about datisi rn, and i just wanna caution you…

lol I sr 2 ladies… SURELY 3rd is a gentleman

do you have any actual issues on my read on you or is this the Standard Andante OMGUS Read(tm)? like, if i'm wrong on you i'd like to know sooner rather than later, and just reading "i don't know if he approaches me like that as town"

(which, the post makes it sound like you townread me but aren't 100%, which i know you're not but it's pretty funny)

[mykonian]

Yeah, but compare datisi’s tip-toeing to his tip-toeing around you and cephrir.
He barely interacts with either of you comparatively to andante.

I meant that as being scum talking about and town.

And I know. Thankfully Mala can't help herself, she has to talk about me

[mykonian]

lmfao Myko ain't gonna like this

Yup.

[mykonian]

And all alright luke <3

[mykonian]

It wasn't nightless anymore, but with 2.5 lurkers it was hard to control the narrative in town and then having to let up on a kill as well (I think there are other outs there but it was tricky) scum really had few handles on this game. Bit of a shame that it still got to just the one town pair that blocked the whole thing, but that's on Ginngie

[mykonian]

Given there hasn't been a mini theme in between the end of this game and now, I don't think it really matters.