Mini Normal 2271 - Game Over

[JacksonVirgo]

[JacksonVirgo]

Stupid space smh my smh

[JacksonVirgo]

I usually get scumread for this but eh who cares.

1. How long have you played the game of mafia, not just on this site, but ever?
2. Do you like playing the role of town or mafia better?
3. Are you an active poster or a lurker?
4. Do you find it hard to lie or it something you have no issues with?

Uhh no, I have a boyfriend... how gross you should feel disgusted with yourself.

[JacksonVirgo]

JV I JUST WANNA LET YOU KNOW IM TOWN IN THIS GAME

I KNOW ITS GONNA BE HARD TO EARN YOUR TRUST

BUT I GOTCHU BB

VOTE: flavorleaf

Hi

Hmmmm, I didn't even think about the other games until right at this moment aha

[JacksonVirgo]

i also think malakittens is addressing JV as if they already know JV is town and is trying to get their trust. that's a very weak read tho, and it seems like there's background there.

Yeah I am so townie

[JacksonVirgo]

Spiritual vote on Malakittens

:good:

Malashell :wink:

I don't like being shipped with random ppl i don't know.

sorrynotsorry.

i also think malakittens is addressing JV as if they already know JV is town and is trying to get their trust. that's a very weak read tho, and it seems like there's background there.

I have played with JV twice so far; both times I have been scum. So there's the potential that he might vote me right off the bat which is fair considering that I been scum twice so far now against him.

This feels very self conscious.

VOTE: Malakittens

VOTE: Roden

This be a game themed around cats and u vote someone with a cat avi. Smh my smh

[JacksonVirgo]

I haven't played with Malakittens in a long long time, but right now, I'm feeling they're town. They can be sneaky, though, but even with that into consideration, I'm gonna throw a town read down.

Thought this was ur first game :lol:

[JacksonVirgo]

I usually get scumread for this but eh who cares.

1. How long have you played the game of mafia, not just on this site, but ever?
2. Do you like playing the role of town or mafia better?
3. Are you an active poster or a lurker?
4. Do you find it hard to lie or it something you have no issues with?

I'll do it proper.

1. I've played Mafia 2017 with Town of Salem, then moved to Forum Mafia on the ToS forums, which moved me to Discord Mafia (of which I am now an admin) and MafiaScum.
2. I prefer playing mafia, I am better at it by a large margin.
3. Read my sig aha. I am a bit of both, I post actively if I believe to have a substantial case on somebody but otherwise I lurk to avoid being pocketed into wrong reads.
4. Lying is easy. Used to fake-claim as town as a way to manipulate the scum into screwing themselves over. Don't do that anymore, got out of hand.

[JacksonVirgo]

where do you originally play koopashell

I played on ToSFM

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh no I outted my alt.

[JacksonVirgo]

(for legal reasons, that's a joke)

[JacksonVirgo]

Jokes aside, this seems like genuine annoyance from Mala.

[JacksonVirgo]

no further questions

HEM is town. That is all

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Malakittens
This one is pretty obvious.

VOTE: NK15
This one is pretty obvious.

[JacksonVirgo]

But I also get how that frustration could be genuine, so a slot to keep an eye on for now.

Frustration can come from scum, too. In this case it is not town-indicative.

The most scummiest votes on my wagon is NK15 & koopa. Koopa because I didn't like the trajectory, NK15 because that post was scummy af.
Roden is prob town as stated before. HEM is up in the air.

Koopa looks decent, don't agree with you for them but NK15 I can agree with. HEM is very likely Town, but not something I am willing to delve into as if I get everyone to TR them they gonna die. Roden I am indifferent about

[JacksonVirgo]

Was gonna response to the first but chose against it. Ignore that I quoted it

[JacksonVirgo]

Confident in this vote.

[JacksonVirgo]

Confident in this vote.

How confident would you say you are? I think the Mala vote was very opportunistic but they've only made about four posts so far.

Probably shouldn't have said "confident", but I am more confident than anybody else given it's early day 1.

[JacksonVirgo]

It feels like they're trying to justify themselves sheeping a vote.

[JacksonVirgo]

it’d be a tie for 1st place between Flavor Leaf and JV for best response.

Which one of mine :p

[JacksonVirgo]

if you're looking for scummy positioning around Malakittens, you should take a look at MalcolmTucker. Absolute fencesitting.

Although I do not agree that Malakittens should be anyone's top townread. I still think that early slips like that could be valid, and they shouldn't be townread just because they were the first wagon of the game. I do not think Roden and ItalianoVD are scum just because they are pushing Malakittens. So if you have something to say about these slots, we'll listen.

Similarly I am sus of JacksonVirgo's townread of me — I don't think we've played enough that he can make such a confident call.

I do agree that NK15 and Koopashell's play compels me to read them as town.

It wasn't a meta-read on you. It's a mind-meld kinda of read on you. And from my experience, that has never failed me but firsts always happen just not willing to bet on it failing D1.

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe that Human is attempting a White Knight pocket attempt on Italiano to lower my presence in the game as scum.

It isn't a chainsaw.

What's a chainsaw? I saw that mentioned twice now

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe that Human is attempting a White Knight pocket attempt on Italiano to lower my presence in the game as scum.

It isn't a chainsaw.

What's a chainsaw? I saw that mentioned twice now

Player A (Town) pushes Player B (Scum).

Player C (Scum) pushes Player A. <--- that's the chainsaw. They defend their partner by attacking the one thats pushing their partner.

Don't see how this is typically scum!AI either in and of itself, Town who thinks that a case on somebody to be manipulative or overall opportunistic etc would do the same.

[JacksonVirgo]

Imagine lurking

[JacksonVirgo]

still mindmelding with me? :P what's your take on Flavor Leaf?

Not really, or at least nothing that clicks that we're mindmelding. As I consider mindmelding completely different than having the same reads.

I haven't fully caught up to be fair, will get back to you.

[JacksonVirgo]

It's possible, though, but I'm a mason so i have the different pov, obvi

Didn't you do this claim before as scum in a game with me?

[JacksonVirgo]

It's possible, though, but I'm a mason so i have the different pov, obvi

Didn't you do this claim before as scum in a game with me?

With DkKoba to be precise if I am correct.

[JacksonVirgo]

It's possible, though, but I'm a mason so i have the different pov, obvi

Didn't you do this claim before as scum in a game with me?

Probably, I do it a lot as both alignments.

I believe there was a Friendly Neighbor claim gambit with Dkkoba and I once when we were both scum and I believe you were in it.

Oh yep that was it, not masonry.

[JacksonVirgo]

Nobody in this game has caught me as scum on site before. JacksonVirgo 'might' have, and they have seen me as scum and scum read me correctly before, but idk if they 'caught' me. I mightve won all those games.

Yeah I caught both you and koba but couldn't relay that read to the Town overall.

[JacksonVirgo]

I do apologize for not posting much, have been busy doing a few things.

1. Working on learning machine learning
2. Literally hating life cuz I was in isolation when I wasn't sick so bored out my brains.
3. Interent modem died so stuck using mobile data.
4. Didn't really feel motivated to play this, but I'll get there.

I am doing an escape room tomorrow so after that I'd likely be able to catch up again. Just thought I'd let you know why instead of just lurkin' even though I am not afraid to admit whenever I am doing so, see my sig for more details.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Koopa

:)

[JacksonVirgo]

I think Jackson's reaction to me finding Scorpious as town is incredibly wolfy.

I voted you for no reason outside of just to see how you would react. Which you did so poorly with a retaliatory scum read, I gave zero context in which you fabricated one instead, even after asking me to elaborate.

[JacksonVirgo]

Incredibly - I went through some meta on Scorpious.. and I am shocked to find that their WOLFPLAY has more depth than their villager play somehow.
When comparing:
This wolf game from a game called Internal Affairs:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=26244
and this Villager game from a game called Polish Rap:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... ct[]=26244

Also interesting tidbit I found in the wolf chat:
Subject: Infernal Affairs Mafia PT

Oh, yeah. You should know that.

I’ll be scum read by page 4. I just come off as scum all the time. I usually get out of it but. There will be a push on me. I’m just not that good at this, but I like the game so much.

Since you’re in the spirit of doing meta dives, why not do mine and let me know what you come up with. :]

Or mine :p

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson - pray tell, what reads have you had this game thus far at all?

Ive stated my reads, and you know that all too well why choose to shade me here?

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh math :O

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson - pray tell, what reads have you had this game thus far at all?

Ive stated my reads, and you know that all too well why choose to shade me here?

What read do you have other than NK15 being wolf?

HEM town. FL I am paranoid of but that’s nothing to base a read off. Scorp feels vastly different than a recently closed game so baskng a TR there.

At work can’t give detail nor do I want to currently

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson - pray tell, what reads have you had this game thus far at all?

Ive stated my reads, and you know that all too well why choose to shade me here?

What read do you have other than NK15 being wolf?

HEM town. FL I am paranoid of but that’s nothing to base a read off. Scorp feels vastly different than a recently closed game so baskng a TR there.

At work can’t give detail nor do I want to currently

And I have reads on every slot - and I'm wolfy.

Yes.

Ignoring your shade, having a read on every slot doesn’t make you town. You’re a fool if you think so.

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh math :O

Hi. :) You scum again? It’s okay you can tell me :)

Nah. I wish.
Id be more into the game if I were

[JacksonVirgo]

I've come to a realisation mid-day out that I don't think koopa is

more

likely scum than NK15.

VOTE: NK15

[JacksonVirgo]

get on Mala, JV

No, and I don't appreciate you attempting to get me to vote who you want to whilst ignoring my reads up until this point.

[JacksonVirgo]

Unless they are confirmed scum, as of which kitty has revealed that nobody was conf!scum in their recent tier-list, I am not voting there.

[JacksonVirgo]

This is the second time JV has made a vote in reaction to an in game momentum shift.
Keep an eye on them for the whole game thank you.

This is the second time you should just shut up, thank :p

(this be a joke)

[JacksonVirgo]

i think NK15 i town so

wanna fight me there

Why would I fight you about conflicting reads, means nothing for our alignment nor does fighting solve anything.

[JacksonVirgo]

This is the second time JV has made a vote in reaction to an in game momentum shift.
Keep an eye on them for the whole game thank you.

Imagine thinking a shift in vote when a shift in game momentum happens is scummy. Even though my vote back on NK has nothing to do with context as I haven't read barely anything today, I fail to see how that warrants an extra eye on me outside of just shading me for being in a vast disagreement.

[JacksonVirgo]

i think NK15 i town so

wanna fight me there

Do you not find it weird that NK15 suddenly voted for you and now suspects you despite barely mentioning you beforehand?

i can understand NK15 thinking im scum because im different in this game. i also think im playing different this game.
the discussion is to be had

No, it isn't a discussion to be made; at least not yet. I am not wanting to discuss my reads at this current moment, I do not have the effort left in my soul for heavy discussions. I can give a brief synopsis on a few things, but not a discussion.

[JacksonVirgo]

This is the second time JV has made a vote in reaction to an in game momentum shift.
Keep an eye on them for the whole game thank you.

Imagine thinking a shift in vote when a shift in game momentum happens is scummy. Even though my vote back on NK has nothing to do with context as I haven't read barely anything today, I fail to see how that warrants an extra eye on me outside of just shading me for being in a vast disagreement.

1 coincidence, I sleep.
2 coincidences?
No thanks.

It's not a coincidence, and you fail to counter how a shift in my vote is scummy because of a shift in game momentum. They go hand in hand does it not. I feel you're stretching too much on your logic on me, not sure if biases or if you're trying to make me look bad maliciously.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think a wolf HEM is spewing NK15 as town in this scenario.
Speaking from a pre-flipped point of view.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you said, but quoting it because it made me remember. I've been feeling that FL has been unnecessarily backing me up in everything in a way that seems to me unnatural and purposeful. I do not think they are scum but I am aware that town, including me, love to be town-read so I see it possible that my TL on them is based in that primarily and forcing me to ignore the slight red-flag of that pocket/white-knight and I would love some insight to see if I should continue to put that on the downlow and trust my soul or to follow that read to it's core and see where it lands.

[JacksonVirgo]

This is the second time JV has made a vote in reaction to an in game momentum shift.
Keep an eye on them for the whole game thank you.

Imagine thinking a shift in vote when a shift in game momentum happens is scummy. Even though my vote back on NK has nothing to do with context as I haven't read barely anything today, I fail to see how that warrants an extra eye on me outside of just shading me for being in a vast disagreement.

1 coincidence, I sleep.
2 coincidences?
No thanks.

It's not a coincidence, and you fail to counter how a shift in my vote is scummy because of a shift in game momentum. They go hand in hand does it not. I feel you're stretching too much on your logic on me, not sure if biases or if you're trying to make me look bad maliciously.

I think you have wolf equity with HEM based on your play around the slot.
Your arguments are uncompelling to me.

Read my scum and town meta, you'll see a stark contrast I am almost certain and that should be good enough to stop useless conspiracy reads early in the game. My arguments are very likely not compelling to anybody, I am not into this game and thus I don't really have the effort to form or try and form semi-decent reads. Not saying that's something I should be read as Town for, just stating it as it is.

[JacksonVirgo]

no further questions

HEM is town. That is all

Can you explain this, JV?

I had a mind-meld with them right at that point, when they stated their pause of the game-state. I believe they specifically said that they had enough questions, which was exactly what I had in my head. Waiting for a response because a very very decent question/statement has just been made (at that point) and wanted to wait for a response before going further. I do not believe scum would do that, nor have I ever had a full gut punch of a mind-meld moment like I had with anybody except Town in all my games of Discord and Forum mafia both on and off this site.

It is by far not a case that I can convince other's of, otherwise I would have done so way earlier than now. It's more of a personal read that I am very confident about.

[JacksonVirgo]

But I also get how that frustration could be genuine, so a slot to keep an eye on for now.

Frustration can come from scum, too. In this case it is not town-indicative.

The most scummiest votes on my wagon is NK15 & koopa. Koopa because I didn't like the trajectory, NK15 because that post was scummy af.
Roden is prob town as stated before. HEM is up in the air.

Koopa looks decent, don't agree with you for them but NK15 I can agree with. HEM is very likely Town, but not something I am willing to delve into as if I get everyone to TR them they gonna die. Roden I am indifferent about

Please explain this JV.

Which would you want an explanation for? I will not be explaining your read specifically for a distinct reason that I would rather be eliminated than out on day 1.

[JacksonVirgo]

So why have you not directly defended them here as they have been a top wagon consistently?

I've been barely able to keep motivation to keep up with the game, so I haven't been. Skimming barely, but when I skim I tend to just gloss over and not really register anything unless it's directly saying my name as my eyes pin to that.

[JacksonVirgo]

The only case I would be able to bring up against them as an elim is exactly what I said, which is not an argument which can be used outside of my very specific headspace so what's the point of doing so? It wouldn't get anywhere

[JacksonVirgo]

I also believe HEM to be a strong scum, so if I am wrong the pressure is sure to reveal stress slips. But that's not my main motivation, just a small sub-one to justify my lack of motivation to make cases.

[JacksonVirgo]

Weird because FL is extremely vocal about HEM.
Regardless - @FL I'm sold on HEM, cheers.

I am aware you're not talking to me, but what are you sold on them about.

[JacksonVirgo]

fine
let me be darling wagon
ask me anything

Q: Do you remember the game where you were scum and made me hate life so bad?

[JacksonVirgo]

I also believe HEM to be a strong scum, so if I am wrong the pressure is sure to reveal stress slips. But that's not my main motivation, just a small sub-one to justify my lack of motivation to make cases.

Do you think both HEM/NK can be scum here?

I don't believe HEM is scum at all? Unless you are asking a different question than what's directly asked?

[JacksonVirgo]

yes
i had to chase you as you replaced out to apologize for the stress i gave you
you are right. i am very strong scum.

That was painful, but I respect your dedication :P

Ahahaha

[JacksonVirgo]

I think JV's energy shift and sudden cooperativeness is wolf indicative when called out as HEM's partner, as current thread consensus is HEM wolf and thus tying to HEM is an awkward spot right now
I do not support a chain elimination on a wolf HEM flip but should be considered as a push on day 2.
I find the responses from JV here to be fairly wrong in terms of the fact it doesn't remove any viability for partner equity, and the way they speak feels a bit like they know HEM will flip wolf and are covering up for the fact.

I'd rather bus early than buddy up. You keep avoiding to read my meta, do so.

[JacksonVirgo]

Overall I also feel there is a lack of genuineness to the HEM/JV interactions in the sense they are interacting with eachother a lot but JV isnt worried about HEM's place in the gamestate as a townread of theirs? Essentially I'm accusing them of theatering

I wouldn't care if a confirmed town was eliminated, I am fairly apathetic about this game.

[JacksonVirgo]

No one would like to bus on day 1. No wolves do that by default unless they are assholes or have a clear path to win off it or there's a position where they have to.
The issue is that's a non argument.

I pulled the rug on the gamestate - twice.
Here's my view on it:.
JV doesn't bus because there is a vocal defender and not much pressure. Puts them as top townread so they don't have to push HEM off FL. All in all - there has been little threat to HEM until now.

In a world with a wolf traitor - there is plenty of incentive to protect your other partner.

I am confident in this conclusion at this point in a way that "makes sense" that I haven't felt this game yet. I will maintain my course here

Bus in the terms of not every town-reading a sole mafia buddy and not anybody else any more. That's foolish, and I am not a bad scum by any means. Why would you assume there's a traitor? There is rarely ever a traitor in normal games.

[JacksonVirgo]

hah

prepare to be wrong

Having association reads without a flip is also grounds for tunnel-visioning.

[JacksonVirgo]

Did not mean to quote that

[JacksonVirgo]

pu kcaB there. Just because I won't be voting there makes me mega sus if they flip red? Lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Again, why are you assuming a traitor exists.

[JacksonVirgo]

pu kcaB there. Just because I won't be voting there makes me mega sus if they flip red? Lmfao

You're defending a player who did basically nothing to solve so hard. Scummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Saying I am not voting there is not defending.

[JacksonVirgo]

MT, you still didn't answer my question as for why TOWNIES would sit on Koopa. It's a dumb play as scum but a dumber one as town. Maybe they're trying to make a wagon crystallize. Maybe just one is scum and the other is a scummy townie who got sheeped. IDK.

I explained it above in 1164. It's a dumb town play but Scorpious didn't even know Koopa had role claimed. I don't think they've really been paying that much attention beyond their pretty crap push on Koopa.

I don't see the explanation in 1164... am I stupid?

I outlined why I don't think Scorpious/JV would sit there - it's dumb town play yes but neither of them seem too invested in the game and Koopa has no chance of going out when mafia should surely be trying to wagon a less obvious townie.

JV's sudden switch feels potentially opportunistic though despite the fact they now have a similar suspect list to me.

you know you're absolutely off track when you have to build your theory over countless other assumptions

Exactly why I said about having associative reads without any flips. I think it's foolish, individual reads are fine. Associative ones, plus assuming a traitor in a game to follow their own logic. How tunnelled do you have to be do do all that on D1.

[JacksonVirgo]

My quotes always dying my god.

[JacksonVirgo]

It implies a townread. What would you townread them for.

You inferred wrong, it just means I am not voting outside of my scum-reads just because monk wants me to.

[JacksonVirgo]

It implies a townread. What would you townread them for.

You inferred wrong, it just means I am not voting outside of my scum-reads just because monk wants me to.

you still haven't gave your synopsis or must have missed it

What were you looking for a synopsis on specifically?

[JacksonVirgo]

nk15, why is scum?

i read their progression as natural, i think they're approaching the game from a solvy angle, and i share a lot of reads with them.
although i haven't played with them as scum, so this isn't bulletproof, but i want them to stay through D1.

I disagree pretty heavily about their progression being natural, it reads to me as forced, manipulative and opportunistic in its nature. I did not really realise what Malcom just called out but that is also another reason for me to believe there's scum between FL and NK. Obviously concluding in NK for me as my read on FL isn't anywhere near NK currently even though the obvious paranoia still remains.

[JacksonVirgo]

i'll let him answer that

but i disagree that FL's wagon necessarily would have scum in it.
I stand by that the scumminess is present and organic to FL's posting (as in you can visibly feel it, it's not galaxy brain) and I will sympathize with those who respond to the same instinct.

It might be a case of us believing NK is scum anyway and thus the FL wagon is additional proof, possibly biased. I didn't even notice it until Malcom brought it up so it could also be a "oh yeah that's a thing" kinda of recency bias type of read.

[JacksonVirgo]

Sup my fam, it's ya boi back from his 8 hour sleep followed by a 4 hour nap after a bit of study. I am now the least tired I have ever been holy cow.

[JacksonVirgo]

as a traitor

you crumbed so maybe not

OK. Since I want you all to stop talking about my slot like this because I'm blatant town - I'm a gunsmith.

That is why: I believe traitors are possible.

That is why: I think there are no masons in this setup

Okay, not what I thought you were honestly. Thought you were a etnaligiV, which was mainly why I wanted to put you into heat so you're not shot, didn't think you were actually scum :p

I have a few questions for you however:
1. Why do you think a Gunsmith game lands into a Traitor game? That's a large stretch if I've ever seen one.
2. Are you taking the assumption of no masons into consideration because of your traitor conclusion? Or is it tied with your claimed role?

[JacksonVirgo]

FL is approaching their reads in a way that is meant to appease the people he wants to have credibility and push down people he doesnt want to have credibility. It isn't solving - it's bullshit. And you are trolling if you can't see the truth here.

Dude immediately made up a fake ass excuse to discount my claim being towny or not because he wants to discredit me.

Bury his partner and them him.

OR we can just bury him first. I really don't care at this point - it's flagrantly obvious.

Can you look at my post on FL pocketing and give me your thoughts on that? Nobody commented on it sadly and I actually want opinions on it

[JacksonVirgo]

Please, this is actually a really amazing find and reason for the 3 of us to converge into one wagon.

Can we please all pressure towards Roden? I truly think it's the best fade for the day,

Can you possibly case roden again for me, assuming I am super out of the loop cuz I am.

[JacksonVirgo]

I can foresee a very bad thing happening oh no.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you assuming that just because you are a gunsmith means that a traitor is more likely. Because it is not, what's more likely is it's used as a cop that can RP nwot a ytliug-eslaf role or a Mafia doctor exists, or have it purely as a way to not have super obvious checks similar to how Cop would in a normal. I do not see how you've come to the conclusion of no traitors existing.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think you assuming that just because you are a gunsmith means that a traitor is more likely. Because it is not, what's more likely is it's used as a cop that can RP nwot a ytliug-eslaf role or a Mafia doctor exists, or have it purely as a way to not have super obvious checks similar to how Cop would in a normal. I do not see how you've come to the conclusion of traitors existing.

EBWOP

[JacksonVirgo]

To add I'm just fundamentally very wary of the idea we've solved this game early on with Mala supposedly making themselves obvious in the first few pages as mafia before teammate Flavor then comes in to defend them resolutely and also basically then reveals themselves as mafia. That's not me saying neither player can slip or make an error here, because clearly they can, but I struggle to see a world here where mafia Flavor comes out and bats for mafia Mala so earnestly, which is essentially one of Koopa's main arguments here.

Koopa keeps seeming to make deeply nested reads that would only make sense if we had the mechanical information for such as flips and claims, which comes later through the game. I believe koopa is the type of player to make one or two core points, and whether that be a habit of tunnelling or overconfidence in their own reads, fuse most if not all complementary arguments they see or think up to make a larger more complex theory. The problem with this approach is that if that core assumption is wrong, the entire tree of reads crumbles down so this type of playstyle only benefits in the later stages of the games and attempting to do so early is a fools errand.

I would much prefer, and it would benefit the Town overall, if you keep the theories as low to the initial base assumptions as humanly possible to avoid putting mental effort in forming these trees of arguments which would very likely crash down early game given how large the town pool is compared to scum. Doesn't mean you can't make them, just state them to look at later and look at them later if the initial assumption proves true. Trying to prove your skill to the Town via trying to complete solve early game is both foolish in the grand scheme of things and also doesn't help anybody if you fall into more bias and tunnel-vision that comes with this type of gameplay. It'd be much harder to recover from false reads than if you keep low to the ground.

I used to tend to do this, so I know what I am talking about.

[JacksonVirgo]

Leaf, I'm not going to throw down in the dirt with you or engage in a "no u" back and forth.

@FL

this ultimately seems like a Townie thing to say in this context, can I ask your thoughts on it.

[JacksonVirgo]

I forgot Kitty asked me for my scum-reads. Did I not make it painfully obvious already? Considering I am voting them

[JacksonVirgo]

@everyone

We should stop here for a moment(1 day or so) and everyone posts readslists and then we can discuss more.

I hate this idea..

Of course you do.

JacksonVirgoon. Scumpious. Mafiakittens.

I struggle to see a world here where mafia Flavor comes out and bats for mafia Mala so earnestly, which is essentially one of Koopa's main arguments here.

why not?

debunk FL's read on Malakittens
you can't.
it's the best way you can to defend a slot you are partnered with without having to justify yourself.
of course, the read comes into question when you ask FL to articulate how Malakittens could have designed the pocket — the answer will always be lacking because Malakittens was barely here.
of course, it's questionable for an experienced player like FL to be self-aware in their status as being pocketed and rolling with it
of course, FL is open to be taken out of the pocket
but of course, FL doesn't think mason claiming is inherently scummy even though there was no way for Malakittens to have been strongly townreading FL so much.
but of course, FL would disagree because he would say he has a town PM

this is really a positioning that you would expect from FL as scum, and you are just forced to look at the slot with paranoia because there's a vibe that his playstyle is just being scum whatever their role PM is. i've yet to confirm that, but italiano's remark (way back, forgot which post) hints to this.

im starting to realize why he's don corleone.

that's why we push Malakittens. a red Malakittens at least confirms this theory. (which FL can then debunk by saying he got pocketed >.>)

So you aren't eliminating mala bcuz you think they're scummy? Why not just elim FL directly

[JacksonVirgo]

I would much prefer, and it would benefit the Town overall, if you keep the theories as low to the initial base assumptions as humanly possible to avoid putting mental effort in forming these trees of arguments which would very likely crash down early game given how large the town pool is compared to scum.

i would even argue that these lines of thought, when used to case someone by "predicting" what scum!them would do at every step and then using that to wagon someone is scummy.

i only trust visceral gut feels that my townreads also feel.

Sorry can you reword this I don't understand.

[JacksonVirgo]

Sorry can you reword this I don't understand.

oh jacksonvirgo is scum and their reaction will be A, B, C, D, E (even though these A, B, C, D, E can also have a town explanation)
i will use this now to push you.

Sorry what does that have to do with what you quoted?

[JacksonVirgo]

theories like that not only hurt town, but help scum, and im backing it up

Maybe because you're ass first into the whole concept I am talking about. You also worded it like I was using it to case koopa, it was not.

[JacksonVirgo]

can you enlighten me

I am only saying that I believe the path the the Town overall seems to be taking, including yourself, is foolish. Building up a tree of assumptions to make a case on somebody when someone scummy by nature exists is not a valid elimination. Take out a single assumption and the whole thing falls down. You seem to be reading both as scum, that claimed masonry with each other yes? That's what I've gotten from reading this context.

Take out the assumption that it means anything, because it could very well have just been a lolz moment. It then means nothing in terms of them being aligned at all. Take note of you thinking FL is trying to save scum!mala without doubling down. They've been doing the exact thing with me, I've asked people to comment on it to but nobody has to this exact second.

You are building an assumption tree and ignoring anything else that would counter it, also even if you weren't doing the latter, it is still a bad idea to go so high up in terms of case complexity so early in the game. I am not for either mala nor FL elimination until proven otherwise.

[JacksonVirgo]

can you enlighten me

I am only saying that I believe the path the the Town overall seems to be taking, including yourself, is foolish. Building up a tree of assumptions to make a case on somebody when someone scummy by nature exists is not a valid elimination. Take out a single assumption and the whole thing falls down. You seem to be reading both as scum, that claimed masonry with each other yes? That's what I've gotten from reading this context.

Take out the assumption that it means anything, because it could very well have just been a lolz moment. It then means nothing in terms of them being aligned at all. Take note of you thinking FL is trying to save scum!mala without doubling down. They've been doing the exact thing with me, I've asked people to comment on it to but nobody has to this exact second.

You are building an assumption tree and ignoring anything else that would counter it, also even if you weren't doing the latter, it is still a bad idea to go so high up in terms of case complexity so early in the game. I am not for either mala nor FL elimination until proven otherwise.

no assumption trees here.

im questioning why malakittens would have any town motivation claiming masons with FL there when 1.) i dont think the material to strongly townread FL exists, 2.) malakittens had limited interaction with the thread at that point in time so there was no way to gague if it was a joke, and 3.) it wasn't played like it was a joke. i seriously think it was designed to get a reaction from the town.

Why would scum claim masons on day 1?

Also I keep feeling like everyone keeps silently dismissing my post about FL pocketing me and every time I bring it up. Can someone please respond to that, I am not in the right headspace to be able to gauge it correctly. Or at least tell me that you are not talking about it because it's meaningless, (and if it is, drop the Fl white-kniting mala argument)

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would scum claim masons on day 1?

why would scum claim mason... let's forget about two scum... just think about one scum

to mason bait

fin

Why have scum!FL being backing up scum!mala part of the discussion if two scum claiming masons is out of the question, because it is. Or at least it isn't scum!AI.
I am still not willing to vote for the chance that they mason baited when jokes about masonry's are not at all rare and they already proved to have a joking attitude given the first few pages.

Did somebody say assumption tree?

[JacksonVirgo]

I think a wolf HEM is spewing NK15 as town in this scenario.
Speaking from a pre-flipped point of view.

This has absolutely nothing to do with what you said, but quoting it because it made me remember. I've been feeling that FL has been unnecessarily backing me up in everything in a way that seems to me unnatural and purposeful. I do not think they are scum but I am aware that town, including me, love to be town-read so I see it possible that my TL on them is based in that primarily and forcing me to ignore the slight red-flag of that pocket/white-knight and I would love some insight to see if I should continue to put that on the downlow and trust my soul or to follow that read to it's core and see where it lands.

[JacksonVirgo]

Is there any benefit for scum forcing a mason claim at that point in the game?

... yeah

... to force masons to claim

why are people not getting this

I am getting it, I just don't believe it to have happened for that reason.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why have scum!FL being backing up scum!mala part of the discussion if two scum claiming masons is out of the question, because it is.

im not gonna shut up about things im thinking about if that's what you want me to do

What does that have to do with me talking about the scum!FL defending scum!Mala argument.

[JacksonVirgo]

then say that, don't question the validity of the read.

let's say they were just lolling around
they made this decision knowing full well it can illicit mason/PR reaction (which it did)
why

I

am

questioning the validity of the read. How do you know they made that decision knowing that it'd illicit that reaction?

[JacksonVirgo]

JV something's not clicking we're not on the same plane

Convince me then. I don't think you're going to be able to.

[JacksonVirgo]

551 easily blends into 557 in terms of tonal "I give up" kind of thing. The kthxbye does not read to me like it was meant to be said in a way that was purposefully manipulative. Reading it back in the formulated way you've set it up, still doesn't read to me that it's malicious in nature.

560 is obviously a joke on FL's end, but you aren't casing them for it you are casing Mala so I won't add too much to this.

563 is a post I do not see happening when scum get their way outting a PR, which either means they are not scum or they're scum that did not have malicious intent behind it.

I also refuse to believe FL and Mala are scum together given post 571

[JacksonVirgo]

I can see shitty Town claiming a masonry with their town-read that's being wagoned. Regrettably done so in the past, off-site.

[JacksonVirgo]

Currently reading it as defeated Town, seeing everything fall apart (them being scum-read for their "TMI" of my alignment, and then their town-read getting attacked) threw something in there to solidify their read into the Town overall in a jokish way that they planned to retract.

[JacksonVirgo]

551 easily blends into 557[/postthey're scum that did not have malicious intent behind it.

can you imagine

I do not see happening when scum get their way outting a PR

why

Can you like not warp my words on purpose. At fucking all. Thanks

If it's not something that has malicious intent, it is not something that I want to eliminate as eliminating based on an anti-town happening that doesn't appear to be malicious is the most stupid thing I've ever heard you try and paint on me.

Regarding second, actual real quote of mine, I do not believe it to be what scum would do because it's an obvious PR soft and scum would actually decide to ignore it and possibly retract right at that moment if they didn't want to be further scum-read because of it. Instead, they poke fun at it which, to me, shows that it was humour at it's core rather than pr-hunting.

As they would have caught it and acted appropriately to what you say their agenda was. Mason-bait and then retract.

[JacksonVirgo]

I can see shitty Town claiming a masonry with their town-read that's being wagoned. Regrettably done so in the past, off-site.

do you believe malakittens to be shitty town?

I do now looking back. Had them as a pure null read beforehand that was wagoned unjustly.

[JacksonVirgo]

Can you like not warp my words on purpose. At fucking all. Thanks

???

Surely you aren't actually questioning what I am talking about when you cut out a large chunk of my quote without specifying you did so.

If you are saying that, my read on you was wrong and I will vote you on the spot.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: HEM
You cut out a chunk of my quote. You even failed to do so correctly and the bbcode I used was broken in ur message.

[JacksonVirgo]

of course i did, i wanted to quote a specific part of it

You quoted it so it looked as if I said they were scum that had no malicious intent behind it. That is absolutely not even remotely what I said.

[JacksonVirgo]

why does that make me scum?

You purposefully warped my words, don't say that you did that, force my words into scum-reading them when I absolutely do fucking not and expect me to not think you're scum for that?

I do not tread lightly on misrep, became a meme of mine on discord mafia, and you absolutely taking my words out of context my warping it to make it look bad is not anything I will be taking at all.

[JacksonVirgo]

they're scum that did not have malicious intent behind it.

i meant to do this, to emphasize how absurd it is to say

Scum can say stuff that itself isn't particularly malicious in nature. I am not talking about them as a whole, just particular parts of what they say.

Just like saying "Aha I am scum" as scum is not gamethrowing.

I think that scum or not, saying what they did was not with intent to pr-bait which I narrowed down to calling it not having malicious intent.

[JacksonVirgo]

551 easily blends into 557 they're scum that did not have malicious intent behind it.

can you imagine

Maybe I over-reacted with this particularly. I am very anal about misprepresentation

VOTE: NK15

I no longer have you as a top town, I don't think I am actually physically able to believe entirely that this was accidental.

[JacksonVirgo]

:)

Can you like, respond with actual words. This is useless to gauge what you think and thus I cannot bounce what I actually think about the gamestate to you if you are Town.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am very anal

Term comes from Freudian psychoanalysis.

[JacksonVirgo]

I can see shitty Town claiming a masonry with their town-read that's being wagoned. Regrettably done so in the past, off-site.

do you believe malakittens to be shitty town?

Whats Malas alignment, JV?

I believe them to be town at this current moment.

[JacksonVirgo]

I did already say this

[JacksonVirgo]

How are they town?

Also explained this.

[JacksonVirgo]

How are they town?

Also explained this.

Explain it with quotes

I explained it in one post.

[JacksonVirgo]

551 easily blends into 557 in terms of tonal "I give up" kind of thing. The kthxbye does not read to me like it was meant to be said in a way that was purposefully manipulative. Reading it back in the formulated way you've set it up, still doesn't read to me that it's malicious in nature.

560 is obviously a joke on FL's end, but you aren't casing them for it you are casing Mala so I won't add too much to this.

563 is a post I do not see happening when scum get their way outting a PR, which either means they are not scum or they're scum that did not have malicious intent behind it.

I also refuse to believe FL and Mala are scum together given post 571

I can see shitty Town claiming a masonry with their town-read that's being wagoned. Regrettably done so in the past, off-site.

Currently reading it as defeated Town, seeing everything fall apart (them being scum-read for their "TMI" of my alignment, and then their town-read getting attacked) threw something in there to solidify their read into the Town overall in a jokish way that they planned to retract.

Actually that was wrong. It was in three subsequent posts.

[JacksonVirgo]

You're fabricating things that are plainly not there

My reads are my reads. I believe you all to be doing the same.

[JacksonVirgo]

How does this address lack of solving and poofing under pressure and FL's tendency to push people who are FOSinf mala and pretending its different reasons?

Lack of solving isn't scummy. Just isn't townie.
This secondary is a case for FL not mala.

[JacksonVirgo]

koopa why is nk15 obvious town blundering around

Read their fucking iso my guy.

Oh so you ask me to quote shit but won't do so yourself. Typical

[JacksonVirgo]

How does this address lack of solving and poofing under pressure and FL's tendency to push people who are FOSinf mala and pretending its different reasons?

Lack of solving isn't scummy. Just isn't townie.
This secondary is a case for FL not mala.

Found 3rd wolf gg

More assumption tree.

[JacksonVirgo]

If you believe me to be scum too. Do your meta-dive on me as well.

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah lol you're trying to save a sinking ship

This makes me scum with them because? I am tyring to save them because I believe them to be Town, in no way does this make me scum.

In fact, thinking all three scum would just back each other up severely is foolish. I think you need to reevaluate your playstyle.

[JacksonVirgo]

I did. You've played to your wolf meta.

Lmfao this proves you haven't.

[JacksonVirgo]

What games did you get my scum meta from. Name them

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah lol you're trying to save a sinking ship

This makes me scum with them because? I am tyring to save them because I believe them to be Town, in no way does this make me scum.

In fact, thinking all three scum would just back each other up severely is foolish. I think you need to reevaluate your playstyle.

Your mala townread is the type of stuff i see from wolves trying to save their partner

Ok and? Doesn't mean what I am doing is scummy. I see scum post messages too, so does that mean only scum do it? No

[JacksonVirgo]

Your only one i found with a wolf chat was coalition, you think just because it isnt the same it isn't similar?

That's the most obscure game. It's also a game where I purposefully died off to secure my mafia buddy a win. Did you not consider the actual setup?

All my scum games have a scum chat.

[JacksonVirgo]

You're giving a scum slot an extra pass.

Do you have. Mechanical reasons to read mala the way you are?

Are you asking me if I am a PR. And you're scum-reading mala for pr-baiting.

[JacksonVirgo]

That's the most obscure game.

that's how you know someone's a true fan

I forgot that game even existed to be completely honest lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Check my wiki for games. It described the coalition game and the plan I had.

Coalition I wanted both scum in the coalition and then die off so that town has zero information on where the remaining scum actually is. Not the type of game you should align with this one, the setup warped my scum play.

[JacksonVirgo]

You're giving a scum slot an extra pass.

Do you have. Mechanical reasons to read mala the way you are?

Are you asking me if I am a PR. And you're scum-reading mala for pr-baiting.

I never said mala was wolf for pr related reasons.

Do you or do you not have a mechanical reason to read mala as town. I refuse to believe you reached your conclusion without some level of TMI.

Stop pr-baiting. Are you serious?

[JacksonVirgo]

If you are indeed a masonry with Mala and FL you 3 have fucked over the gamestate with your overt TMI that good players can notice.
I feel doubtful there are masons but this is the only reason

You will kill Town then. You aren't getting a claim from me

[JacksonVirgo]

moves JacksonVirgoon down to "Strong Scum"

You already had me there, you aren't fooling anyone.

[JacksonVirgo]

You are inhibiting my solve because you made shitty reads on both FL and mala that dont make sense.
You 3 are teamed - whether its masons or wolves.
And from a wold pov outside of you its already blatant if masons.

Just because I have a read on them that goes against yours does not mean I am teamed with them.

You're again forcing another branch on the tunnel tree just because I do not fit in your read.

[JacksonVirgo]

You're all either tunnelled or just plain stupid.

[JacksonVirgo]

Thats uncalled for.

No, it really isn't.

[JacksonVirgo]

You claiming PR has fucked up a lot of things. I can't do what should be done because of it.


You specifically said that it's either all three mech linked or we're all three scum. Do you not realise how stupid that conclusion is?

[JacksonVirgo]

How has me claiming done anything other than increase my influence?

I think its a smart conclusion based on how you all 3 mysteriously townread eachother - and mala has thrown a townread at you preemptively.

It isn't mysterious in any sense just because it doesn't align with what you believe.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am in a very bad mental battle about this game

Somebody say y or n to me

[JacksonVirgo]

Someone plz lmfao

[JacksonVirgo]

Original Roll String: 1d2 (STATIC)

1 2-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

Ima dice it

please do NOT use dice tags - see 1722

-mod

[JacksonVirgo]

I’ve been trying to think of a way to not have the worst mechanical issue to ever exist from what I know can happen but it seems things are going down that way.

I am PR and I am claiming this because I am a false positive to a gunsmith. I’ve been trying my hardest to find a way to get around not claiming because 2 PR claims day 1 with neither being eliminated or about to might be game breaking so I am claiming.

I am a backup of a role which is positive to a GS. I thought I was just to keep the role consistent but turns out I now believe the base role does not exist or at least I am hoping that this role only exists as a false positive to the GS.

I have softed this even before getting into heat from poopa but it shows what I am a backup of so Id rather not. This has nothing to do with my reads just dont wanna get false red checked if mala does flip scum. Cuz that would be omega shit

[JacksonVirgo]

If I get pushrd to E1 ill show my softs

[JacksonVirgo]

Ehhh...claiming backup unprovoked doesn't really seem like it would come from scum. Though I also don't think you were getting voted out any time soon.

It was not unprovoked I couldn’t really decide on whether I risk getting red checked or risk not having my base role do its stuff. Decided that I am very likely just a miller in this setup

[JacksonVirgo]

Why are all the town pr’s claiming….

Wtf?

Dont like this reaction

[JacksonVirgo]

JVs claim uh kinda was unneeded bc i was the obvious kill but the genuine concern over getting checked seems valid.
Backup of a role that doesn't exist can be a thing right? It would be a pretty unique way of making a miller.
I don't think JV should ever clarify which role they are backing up after I die until day 3 fwiw because of the fact they could be backing up me/wolves could believe they are.

Overall I'm still on track to flip mala here but the world with JV as partner was fairly weak - moreso a boxing in the case of mala wolf flip.

I guess I'll cede here that I can see where JV was coming from with the townread but felt it was grossly exaggerated and didn't override the wolfy parts of Mala and it was intentionally ignored + the joke part felt like fluff to make her look better

Perhaps it is smart to claim backup of role with a gun as a miller claim in future games hmm. That would be interesting as a town strategy. But I digress.

Fuck I overlooked you getting shot

[JacksonVirgo]

Game reminder: Do not use provable randomness, including dice tags and screenshots of random.org results.

As such, please do not discuss 1688.

You may rely on randomness, but do it in a way that can't be proven (flip a coin).

I will edit my ruleset to clarify this rule.

Thanks!

Oop sorry

[JacksonVirgo]

Mala town for reasons id rather not say but its a bit grimy

Bruh

Explain though that is a massive jump

[JacksonVirgo]

Mala town for reasons id rather not say but its a bit grimy

NO

YOU CANT FUCKING FLOP LIKE THIS

and be like ~secret~

thats down right fucking scummy

This is a tad intense gee golly

[JacksonVirgo]

Malcom/Math/JV/Koopa/FL are all most likely to be town

Kitty / NK15 & roden are most likely to be scum

Andre is null because of the lack of posts from both him and his other slot.

Disagree on roden

[JacksonVirgo]

Malcom/Math/JV/Koopa/FL are all most likely to be town

Kitty / NK15 & roden are most likely to be scum

Andre is null because of the lack of posts from both him and his other slot.

Disagree on roden

can we explain why

If u can wait. At work cam only do short responses or I may get caught ahaha

[JacksonVirgo]

Malcom/Math/JV/Koopa/FL are all most likely to be town

Kitty / NK15 & roden are most likely to be scum

Andre is null because of the lack of posts from both him and his other slot.

Disagree on roden

can we explain why

I dont think I should discuss it ruleswise.

What rule would it break

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Andres do something

Imaginr having the tunnel tree crash and now vote for activity

[JacksonVirgo]

Something about Mala's reaction seems genuine. I'll sleep on it. Good night.

UNVOTE: for now. Scorpious and JV still kinda scummy.

I feel like the sudden switch to town!mala is forced

[JacksonVirgo]

I wonder how many times the scum pt has told Koopa to stop talking..

Stop. They are town

[JacksonVirgo]

Side note on JV’s claim..

He put the onus on other players to decide if he should or not and when that failed he did something the mod said not to mention, but look above the claim post…

I didnt want to be liable if I fucked shit up ahahaha

[JacksonVirgo]

Im fine with kitty if nk can’t happen

[JacksonVirgo]

Just finished work will be able to clarify anything if needed in detail.

[JacksonVirgo]

Someone Vig Koopa.

If he is town, he will lose the game for town.

If he is scum, it's a great shot.

This is getting too personal for this to get anywhere productive. I also think that their reads aren't entirely correct, I've said this in detail but in no way is being wrong early game mean they're going to lose the game for Town.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: kitty

I’m good here

Did you change your read on me or is it the same? If it's the same but Kitty is a consolidation vote can I ask why you think I am scum and I'll try and debunk that as best as I can personally.

[JacksonVirgo]

I believe the top four posters up until now, which includes me, are all Town. HEM I am questioning because of that whole warping post thing but that's not strong enough to break my mind-meld read. FL and koopa read like town that have vastly different energies that are clashing.

[JacksonVirgo]

Malcom and Mala are also both Town but not as strong as the previously stated reads.

[JacksonVirgo]

I can see a possible Roden/Mala, tbh, hiding behind koopa/fL


a theory.

I can't really get my feelers in roden being scum tbh.

[JacksonVirgo]

I soul sincerely believes that all scum are in Scorp, Math, Italiano, Kitty, Andres and NK. My brain also knows that soul-reads early in the game are not reliable. But 2 out of 3 I believe are definitely in that PoE.

I want Kitty or NK solved today. Scorp going on the attack on my slot is a good look in and of itself, even though it does go against me personally.

[JacksonVirgo]

I dont think JV is ever scum this game.

Can I ask how you've come to this conclusion?

Off-topic, I find it weird that not many people are saying my claim is scum avoiding a red-check prematurely.

[JacksonVirgo]

Can we like stop saying who we wouldn’t do and say who we would do?

I would definitely do my boyfriend.

[JacksonVirgo]

@JV - do you think absolutely zero scum have pushed me this game?

Can you give me a list of who has pushed you.

[JacksonVirgo]

What is your read on me koopa?

Can we like stop saying who we wouldn’t do and say who we would do?

I would definitely do my boyfriend.

I spit water on my work keyboard sir.

I meant for eliminations.

Congrats on the BF though.

Ahaha that makes my day. I feel like if we state who we'd like to eliminate, it would make consolidation wagons much easier to form. And possibly discuss why things are the way they are if they seem slightly off with how the day-play of each person has been.

I do understand why you're frustrated (if that's the right feeling I am sensing off you) but I do think it's better if we all say it.

And thank ya :D

[JacksonVirgo]

I also want to note how Andres somehow popped in right as Koopa voted them. That's quite the coincidence.

[JacksonVirgo]

Italiano and Scorpious are my green list, so that's making me ease with Kitty more.

I would very much rather Roden, but that looks like something I'll have to push later.

If Kitty is flipped scum, Im most likely dead this night, though.

Can I ask for clarification on Italiano? And ease with kitty means town-lean?

[JacksonVirgo]

I dont think JV is ever scum this game.

Can I ask how you've come to this conclusion?

Off-topic, I find it weird that not many people are saying my claim is scum avoiding a red-check prematurely.

Eh, your analysis has felt like actual analysis, even if i dont agree with everything.

you being in the top 4 posters kind of astonished me, and i dont think that happens with you specifically as scum.

and claim seems town over scum how it went about.

Yeah I don't know how I've gotten to top 4 posters lmfao. I don't think reading because of that is a solid read mainly because I often post more as scum as I'm stronger and enjoy it more.

Interesting to see this read of yours though.

[JacksonVirgo]

No, you still make me very uncomfortable. I don’t know why you would claim such an excruciatingly complex role with zero pressure to do so.
Coupled with your response of “not wanting to screw up” or whatever you said. You’re not worried about screwing up. You know better..

It also pinged me that your claim interlocks almost perfectly with koopa’s..
and if you’re both town you have greatly reduced our win chances with these decisions..

With this player list of you are both outed town scum is going to eat us alive ….


Pedit— are we at ludicrous posting yet?
Pedit 2- we’re plaid for sure
Pedit 3- what comes after plaid?

I claimed because I believed it to be in Town's best interest. Throughout the day, and since the Gunsmith claimed my theory of me being a false-guilty to them grew stronger than the belief that my base role existed in the game.

And since the Gunsmith seemed to have be in his scum-pool and seemed overly tunnelled about it I felt super pressured into doing so as a false-guilty on me would almost certainly mean I die, and if my base-role does exist that would double down as being worse than if I risked getting red-checked.

Just how Millers should claim day 1, I assumed that I was such role and thus claimed. I was actually incredibly stressed with deciding whether or not I should claim, it's why I said that koopa's claim screwed a lot up. Because my claim had the possibility to literally fuck up so much as that's two town PRs possibly outted for no real reason in the case of my base role existing.

Regarding the win-con, would you prefer I risked getting red-checked? That's a fair thing to think, I was questioning the same thing but just came to a different conclusion than you seem that you would have done in my position. The interlock with koopa's role doesn't read to me like a scum-tell at all, wouldn't that be a +1 for me being Town as contradictions in the Towns PRs usually out the mafia in it.

I am not confirmed Town in the least, don't treat me as such and you'll be gucci. I consider myself a miller and I do not believe my base-role exists. I have a LOT of doubt.

[JacksonVirgo]

That was a much larger post than I thought it was.

[JacksonVirgo]

Italiano and Scorpious are my green list, so that's making me ease with Kitty more.

I would very much rather Roden, but that looks like something I'll have to push later.

If Kitty is flipped scum, Im most likely dead this night, though.

Can I ask for clarification on Italiano? And ease with kitty means town-lean?

ease with kitty means im easing into being more okay fading her. I was hesitant.

Italiano and I have been on a similar page all game, and they're the only other ones lining up with me with my Roden read, something I feel is blatantly obvious. Could they be pocketing me? Mm, sure, but when I pushed them, the way they handled it felt townie, and then we had the same exact off putting energy when HEM read Koopa way early as town for a post that felt off to Italiano and I.

Then we both had that paranoia of each other.

Italiano is my strongest town read this game right now.

I think my reason to allowing a Kitty read was mainly because they scum-read me rather than them being scummy. I think that rubs me the wrong way so I'd much prefer to stay on NK to avoid taking my own personal biases into account.

I'm willing to give italiano a free pass for today as I do trust you. But I also don't think Roden is scum so I am not really willing to push that but it's not that I'd hate it if it happened, just don't think they're scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

@JV - do you think absolutely zero scum have pushed me this game?

Can you give me a list of who has pushed you.

HEM, Koopa, Roden, NK15

Personally, I dont see NK15 as scum anymore.

Oh then I don't think zero scum have pushed you. I think NK is scum, but if they aren't I'm willing to look more into Roden.

[JacksonVirgo]

The main issue I have is I think there’s scum in the heavy posters to discourage reading but I townread all the hyperposters.

Makes me think early d1 is crucial especially if HEM is scum and how they discouraged reading.

Is this a valid feels?

I believe all the top-posters to be capable of having incredibly strong scum games so I wouldn't be shocked one is it.

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, what has made you iffy about me? What would like to know?

Did I say that specifically? I just have you in the PoE.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also nobody commented on my neural network snowman avatar instead of my usual kpop. Sad

[JacksonVirgo]

@Scorp

, did I help your read on me at all?

[JacksonVirgo]

Can we like stop saying who we wouldn’t do and say who we would do?

I would definitely do my boyfriend.

WHAT

:)

[JacksonVirgo]

JV, what has made you iffy about me? What would like to know?

Did I say that specifically? I just have you in the PoE.

No you didn’t. Just wanted to know if there was a specific reason to be in the poe?

Nah, I just don't have a strong read on you either way.

[JacksonVirgo]

I tend to hyperfocus on the extremes and forget about the middle of the Town.

[JacksonVirgo]

Bad habit I need to fix

[JacksonVirgo]

i misread
for half a second

and now reading it clarified.

Ahahaha

[JacksonVirgo]

@Scorp

, did I help your read on me at all?

I’d prefer to read the last 10-15 pages at home as opposed to work, which I’m getting ready to commute..

No worries, there isn't a rush or anything just curious if I have to clarify further.

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah, I just don't have a strong read on you either way.

My gifs haven’t convinced you yet?



I gotta do better.

That gif is pretty rock solid. But you're gonna have to do more than rock my world to get a TR from me.

[JacksonVirgo]

jv locktown

reread 1 post, I do not want that slot eliminated this game ever.

That's quite a statement to make. Can I ask what post you reread

[JacksonVirgo]

koopa are you trying to push me as locktown so you aren't shot.

[JacksonVirgo]

jv locktown

reread 1 post, I do not want that slot eliminated this game ever.

That's quite a statement to make. Can I ask what post you reread

Or can you at least give me a hint if it's about something hidden.

[JacksonVirgo]

jv locktown

reread 1 post, I do not want that slot eliminated this game ever.

That's quite a statement to make. Can I ask what post you reread

Or can you at least give me a hint if it's about something hidden.

I'll keep it a secret just for fun.

If it's just for fun I would rather you out it so I'll be locktown to everyone as well. As well as to gauge if such a post does in fact exist and you aren't making it up to excuse not getting shot.

[JacksonVirgo]

jv locktown

reread 1 post, I do not want that slot eliminated this game ever.

That's quite a statement to make. Can I ask what post you reread

Or can you at least give me a hint if it's about something hidden.

I'll keep it a secret just for fun.

If it's just for fun I would rather you out it so I'll be locktown to everyone as well. As well as to gauge if such a post does in fact exist and you aren't making it up to excuse not getting shot.

If people won't listen to my reasoning for my regular townreads at all - what makes you think you have any chance?

What's the harm. I'd like it done even if it is for myself and myself alone.

[JacksonVirgo]

No, you still make me very uncomfortable. I don’t know why you would claim such an excruciatingly complex role with zero pressure to do so.
Coupled with your response of “not wanting to screw up” or whatever you said. You’re not worried about screwing up. You know better..

It also pinged me that your claim interlocks almost perfectly with koopa’s..
and if you’re both town you have greatly reduced our win chances with these decisions..

With this player list of you are both outed town scum is going to eat us alive ….


Pedit— are we at ludicrous posting yet?
Pedit 2- we’re plaid for sure
Pedit 3- what comes after plaid?

I claimed because I believed it to be in Town's best interest. Throughout the day, and since the Gunsmith claimed my theory of me being a false-guilty to them grew stronger than the belief that my base role existed in the game.

And since the Gunsmith seemed to have be in his scum-pool and seemed overly tunnelled about it I felt super pressured into doing so as a false-guilty on me would almost certainly mean I die, and if my base-role does exist that would double down as being worse than if I risked getting red-checked.

Just how Millers should claim day 1, I assumed that I was such role and thus claimed. I was actually incredibly stressed with deciding whether or not I should claim, it's why I said that koopa's claim screwed a lot up. Because my claim had the possibility to literally fuck up so much as that's two town PRs possibly outted for no real reason in the case of my base role existing.

Regarding the win-con, would you prefer I risked getting red-checked? That's a fair thing to think, I was questioning the same thing but just came to a different conclusion than you seem that you would have done in my position. The interlock with koopa's role doesn't read to me like a scum-tell at all, wouldn't that be a +1 for me being Town as contradictions in the Towns PRs usually out the mafia in it.

I am not confirmed Town in the least, don't treat me as such and you'll be gucci. I consider myself a miller and I do not believe my base-role exists. I have a LOT of doubt.

Fiiine ^ it was this post

Ahaha sorry to be a killjoy :p

Can I ask what about it?

[JacksonVirgo]

Thought you saw my soft and was initially curious how you managed it. It's quite obscure

[JacksonVirgo]

Aww plz don't get heated.

[JacksonVirgo]

@FL want a photo of a cute cat.

[JacksonVirgo]

Well you're getting two cute kittens.

[JacksonVirgo]

@koopa you didn't explain why about that post.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't see the supposed slip.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't see the supposed slip.

Look at the reasoning FL gives for the read in the first quote -> then look at the last quote.


And look at how FL has treated Roden this game wrt how they have not substantiated their Roden read with anything but vague statements about his play. Couldn't even provide a single quote.

What aren't you understanding?

Re-read it and still don't see a slip. Are you assuming that 400 posts later the read will be the same and because it's not it's a slip?

[JacksonVirgo]

Not even going to lie, I think if koopa wasn't a PR claimant I'd think they would be paired with either Kitty or NK as they keep attempting to switch to another wagon immediately after saying they'd settle down on a vote. Like not like gradual, wait I do think this is better type of movement. They throw up a case, it gets debunks and they settle back down.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not even going to lie, I think if koopa wasn't a PR claimant I'd think they would be paired with either Kitty or NK as they keep attempting to switch to another wagon immediately after saying they'd settle down on a vote. Like not like gradual, wait I do think this is better type of movement. They throw up a case, it gets debunks and they settle back down.

Their arguments for avoiding both players are incredibly vague too. They keep saying Kitty's ISO progression wouldn't make sense as mafia but there's little actual evidence for why this is the case and it's again Koopa basically deciding their view of the game is definitive and cannot be wrong. Likewise they claim to have done a meta check on NK15 which somehow acts as clearing them when this is evidently nonsense.

They also have made this awkward lock-town status on me, and when I asked them the core of that their response did not radiate the confidence of when they originally said I was lock-town. They also didn't respond to me calling this out.

This is all very curious

[JacksonVirgo]

I am against a koopa wagon ever.

[JacksonVirgo]

Not ever, just today

[JacksonVirgo]

I think an NK red flip leads fairly nicely to a koopa red.

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't think scum!scorp pushes a PR here. Also tbh I don't think scum!kitty does either, but they kept the same view on me regardless of my read even when majority backed off. PoE shrinks

[JacksonVirgo]

Gamma, Italian, Andres and NK.

All of which are in the PoE. I took Italiano out of the question temporarily. This is the pure PoE if all my reads up until this point are correct, which I do not believe is the case anymore. NK red leads to Koopa red which leads to Andres green. Not sure where I'd go from that point but in that case the remaining is currently in my brain as Gamma/Italian.