open 852: store bought potions (sold!)

[Venus and Mars]

Hello Venus and Mars, how does it feel to replace into a scum slot?

How does it feel to constantly be asking the stupidest questions?

[Venus and Mars]

i want to understand what's going on inside that heaaaaaaad

It's just hard to explain beyond "their posts smell bad" but also it reminds me of how I acted when I was sinking scum in OMB as I explained now.

tell us about how you acted when you were sinking scum

In Owner's Market Blitz, I flailed around hard, especially after being accused. Like, extreme flailing. I think that is what STD is doing.

Yeah it was obvious how you continued to deathtunnel me and refuse to ever answer even a single one of my questions.


I’m starting to think NM is scum here, because he doesn’t do anyyhing except make idiotic posts. STD confuses me because he sounds better today but could still be scum.

~Mars (Nancy)

[Venus and Mars]

scumtells aren't scummy

You have to explain that one.

[Venus and Mars]

scum don't do scumtells because they're known tells so they avoid them

I never get accused of that as scum.

[Venus and Mars]

Hello Venus and Mars, how does it feel to replace into a scum slot?

How does it feel to constantly be asking the stupidest questions?

I really really don’t want to get toxic but this is begining to border on harassment. I don’t have an issue if you push me like say Dwlee has but I don’t want to have to exit this game to have to avoid getting another petition ban, so unless your goal is to push me out - voluntarily - I very respectfully ask you to stop this.

[Venus and Mars]

STD what do you think of your town block mindmeld doing absolutely nothing to help or defend you

i feel like dwlee is naturally quiet and N_M is pushing in a way i'd expect N_M to push

i dunno. dwlee taking on nancy and wking me barely seems weird for scum to do on paper i mean why not just pile on unless there's already 2 scums on me and dwlee wants to be different

i think N_M is town?

@Roden. I disagree with this. NM has defended STD and when pressure on my slot dwindled, he started up the harassment again and it is harassment because I feel extremely scared I will lose it on him and get another ban. so it’s actually cruel what he’s doing to me at this point. No one should feel terrified that another player is upsetting them to the extent, they’re seriously worried about getting banned.

[Venus and Mars]

STD what do you think of your town block mindmeld doing absolutely nothing to help or defend you

i feel like dwlee is naturally quiet and N_M is pushing in a way i'd expect N_M to push

i dunno. dwlee taking on nancy and wking me barely seems weird for scum to do on paper i mean why not just pile on unless there's already 2 scums on me and dwlee wants to be different

i think N_M is town?

@Roden. I disagree with this. NM has defended STD and when pressure on my slot dwindled, he started up the harassment again and it is harassment because I feel extremely scared I will lose it on him and get another ban. so it’s actually cruel what he’s doing to me at this point. No one should feel terrified that another player is upsetting them to the extent, they’re seriously worried about getting banned.

Just ignore NM then. If you don't think his push has any substance and it's just to bait a bad reaction out of you then stop responding.

I don't think NM is doing much to defend him, even STD doesn't seem to recall it. So if he did then not even STD took notice.

It’s actually hurtful to me what he’s doing and I’m not sure I can ignore it short of FoEing his posts.

He did defend him, I’ll look up the post.

[Venus and Mars]

In an case, I know how you can react as town, it's not about that for me

What is it about then?

Your RVS posting and read on HEM

#EverythingIsAI
you selfvoted in RVS and made a snap read based on an allergy.
Pretty scummy imo.

STD may or may not be scum but Roden and Nancy's pushes on him are dreadful.

Okay, maybe not much of a defence but why were they “dreadful”?

[Venus and Mars]

UNVOTE:

I’m going to unvote for now.

<3. Anyway thank you STD for your sensitivity to me, it really means a lot.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: NM

I was in a game with town!NM where he wrongly sr me for deathtunnelling him but he never once did what he’s been doing to me here.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: NM

I was in a game with town!NM where he wrongly sr me for deathtunnelling him but he never once did what he’s been doing to me here.

He did tunnel but with pretty decent reasoning (albeit wrong), which he actually bothered to explain.

And I’m also slightly paranoid that no one is actually hard defending STD.

[Venus and Mars]

can someone summarize the gamestate i feel the need to be re-oriented

Team Nancy vs Team STD is at a standstill. Personally I don't feel like scum are doing much right now but idk.

Momentum seems to be shifting towards voting out a lurker but it would be really low info if the one we elim flips town. We'd just be in the same spot again tomorrow in that case.

Gth, I think Kitty is probably lhf town. Yet another reason I think NM could be scum here. If he is legit convinced my slot is scum, why push Kitty?

[Venus and Mars]

I think I want to let Shiro catch up and give some takes first before I do anything else

He told me in our discord, he will probably post tomorrow (which would now be today).

[Venus and Mars]

Hello Venus and Mars, how does it feel to replace into a scum slot?

The reason that this post’s purpose is nothing other than straight up provocation is because it’s not an actual replace out. If V & M were a genuine replace in following my actual replace out, it wouldn’t actually be a nasty post but because he knows it’s still me playing, he made that post to deliberately upset me and for no other reason.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: Kittytacky back to this i think? i just disagree with nancy's tr of kitty

what scares me is what i said earlier about nancy possibly town reading someone she knows is a townie (as scum) or defending her partner (as scum). so my biggest concern with a kitty elim is that it's not going to help me solve nancy at all

Then why vote him?

~M

[Venus and Mars]

im concerned that no one has scumread me in any meaningful way yet, and makes me wonder if i'm pocketed or useful to scum.

If it makes you feel any better, Italiano was sr you prior to rep out. I still haven’t had a chance to talk to Shiro about anything.

[Venus and Mars]

std's flip will inform the std vs nancy situation and give us a better perspective on how everyone was positioned there. i mentioned that earlier i think. n_m is opaque and has targetted kitty after giving nancy shit the whole game.

Well that’s why I’m voting him. If I had a lock sr on a player, I wouldn’t want to be voting anywhere else unless it was literally near deadline with no majority.

I also don’t understand why Kitty is scum here.

[Venus and Mars]

roden if you had to vote right now who would you vote

NM. If I'm wrong about a town read it's probably there. Switching to Kitty after he said he was going to off-wagon tunnel Nancy all game makes it seem like he just wants to push an elim through.

okay you can continue to not like them because i dont really have much to say. each passing moment, our intuition is betrayed by our second-guessing and i want to hold on to the really strong stuff that i felt watching std waffle and be scummy.

You could just throw Pain potions there if you really think it's decisive evidence but can't get enough people to follow you there today. You've made it clear that you're not against publicly organizing potion usage for the night phase, so it shouldn't be a problem if that's what you really want.

That’s what’s concerning me. NM has been literally deathtunnelling me all game for an nai rvs post no less, refusing to look at anything that could prove his read on me wrong but he wants to elim Kitty? If he had only claimed to be suss on me, it would be different but him pushing Kitty over what he continues to claim is some kind of fixed read makes absolutely no sense.

[Venus and Mars]

no im scum

im scum. im seriously 100% scum.

haha yeah

VOTE: flea dont mind me im just scum doing omgus

I have no idea wtf you’re doing here.

[Venus and Mars]

why havent you voted NM

I think I want to let Shiro catch up and give some takes first before I do anything else

I had hoped he would have posted already but deadline is approaching so hopefully, that’s not an issue.

[Venus and Mars]

Because you're making a lot of pushes

this is scummy behavior?

Why are you voting Flea?

[Venus and Mars]

I feel like HEM is repeatedly getting into fights with people who aren't really widely suspected (flea, roden)
anyone have an idea what this means for him?

I wish.

[Venus and Mars]

we'll go high, touchin satellites
so let's ride . . .

vote count 1.7

KittyTacky (2):

Not_Mafia, Save The Dragons

Save The Dragons (1):

KittyTacky

Not_Mafia (1):

Venus and Mars

Venus and Mars (1):

Dwlee99

Dwlee99 (1):

Gamma Emerald

Roden (1):

Enchant

humaneatingmonkey (1):

Flea The Magician

Flea The Magician (1):

humaneatingmonkey

not voting (2):

Facebones, Roden

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to meet me up in heaven. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-07 14:57:40)

modorator notes

• oh no beeeeees

I really don’t believe NM’s lock read on me because he’s only lock sr my slot not Kitty’s, so it’s just weird to me, if he’s doing that as town.

I don’t know what to make of HEM’s recent behaviour but if NM is scum, it could possibly be a derail? Idk what to think because I like his take on Kitty lim but it’s making me wonder if STD is in fact town. Idk why he’s suddenly picking a fight with Flea.

I still think NM’s Kitty push his very suss, so I’m happy staying there.

[Venus and Mars]

I don’t know what to make of HEM’s recent behaviour but if NM is scum, it could possibly be a derail? Idk what to think because I like his take on Kitty lim but it’s making me wonder if STD is in fact town. Idk why he’s suddenly picking a fight with Flea.

you're not gonna like me i think

I just don’t understand what you’re doing or why.

[Venus and Mars]

What's the motivation behind doing that

It depends on his alignment. If town, this could possibly be some kind of reaction test maybe that I don’t as yet comprehend. If scum, it’s happening at a time where NM could be in trouble but NM is pushing Kitty and HEM is opposed to Kitty lim, so that doesn’t make sense, so I have absolutely no idea.

[Venus and Mars]

oh you're really not gonna like me

I'll heads you up

I'm here right now KittyTacky* > Roden > Flea** that's my lim priority order.

What do the asterisks signify?

i totally do not get your Flea read. Fae hydra’d with me in Merlin and fae’s posts here seem pretty much identical to that game.

[Venus and Mars]

are you caught up

Yeah

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=36514

Anyway, this is our posts from Merlin. We both signed so that’s why I tr Flea.

[Venus and Mars]

Thats kind of my point, it doesn't make a lot of sense for scum!HEM to just throw suspicion on random slots that aren't getting limmed a day before deadline

As town HEM could be hunting legitimately this way

I still think Kitty is lhf but it does concern me that he isn’t trying to re-evaluate you.

@Roden, why does Shiro posting or not posting make such a difference to you? I mean there’s a lot to get caught up on, so not really sure why you’re waiting on that.

[Venus and Mars]

i'll vote kitty just for 1261. this isn't town kitty. kitty is mostly self-aware, iirc.

Anyone else think it's sus as hell that the STD wagon dissolved and his most prolific pusher is being wagoned now? STD is scum, and scum is sterring people away from him.

Do you have any meta that I can look at?

[Venus and Mars]

@Flea, I’m tending to agree with STD on HEM. I don’t understand you’re read?

[Venus and Mars]

his most prolific pusher

that's the boldest claim since the manifest destiny

i'll vote kitty just for 1261. this isn't town kitty. kitty is mostly self-aware, iirc.

does everyone else agree with me in my assessment on kitty? kitty seems self-aware in that game and not making absurd claims like being the most prolific pusher of std...

this is the asterisk on kitty. if not everyone agrees that kitty's pov is off and he's acting out of character like a parody of something, i'm dropping this.

well.. not everyone needs to agree. i need at least 4 i think.

I need to see an example of Kitty meta for me to have an opinion on this but this doesn’t sound like a post likely for scum to make.

[Venus and Mars]

ill submit a narrative report later.

i misunderstood flea, i think. but i still want to wait on what fae's gonna do later. that's why it's an asterisk.

Both Italiano and Flea strongly sr you but these most recent posts of yours, I don’t recall ever seeing posts like that coming from scum. Asking for consensus like that is usually town indicative.

I look for mindsets, that’s a big part of why I tr fire and sr furtive in Merlin and why I tr Gamma in both. In my experience, even the most experienced scum has trouble faking that.

[Venus and Mars]

asterisks are certain conditions

my townreads are gamma, facebones, nancy, n_m*, std*

{enchant, dwlee} undefined number of scum here

I think Dwlee has pretty high scum equity. He hasn’t even attempted to re-evaluate me. I have no clue wrt Enchant.

The one read of yours I feel very confident you’re wrong on is Flea. Fae’s decent at scum but faer meta would have had to have significantly changed from Merlin game to this one if scum here and it was pretty recent.

[Venus and Mars]

asterisks are certain conditions

my townreads are gamma, facebones, nancy, n_m*, std*

{enchant, dwlee} undefined number of scum here

I think Dwlee has pretty high scum equity. He hasn’t even attempted to re-evaluate me. I have no clue wrt Enchant.

The one read of yours I feel very confident you’re wrong on is Flea. Fae’s decent at scum but faer meta would have had to have significantly changed from Merlin game to this one if scum here and it was pretty recent.

FUCK

THEY

. fuck me.

[Venus and Mars]

Sorry again Dwlee.

[Venus and Mars]

does everyone else agree with me in my assessment on kitty? kitty seems self-aware in that game and not making absurd claims like being the most prolific pusher of std...

It’s more of an issue not re-evaluating for me. Idk, well he really is the main one pushing him rn, so idk if “prolific” necessarily means anything?

but he was bleeding obvtown in that other game, so I could be wrong.

I think my good cop/bad cop analogy is probably right. I think one scum is pushing me and one could possibly be pocketing me. The 3rd could be either or not doing either.

[Venus and Mars]

Thats kind of my point, it doesn't make a lot of sense for scum!HEM to just throw suspicion on random slots that aren't getting limmed a day before deadline

As town HEM could be hunting legitimately this way

I still think Kitty is lhf but it does concern me that he isn’t trying to re-evaluate you.

@Roden, why does Shiro posting or not posting make such a difference to you? I mean there’s a lot to get caught up on, so not really sure why you’re waiting on that.

Because I town read you, and I think it would be helpful to get some fresh takes from someone who shares a slot with you.

Shiro had an extremely busy day and hasn’t read anything yet.

[Venus and Mars]

if kitty flips scum, N_M and STD are locktowns for me.

Do you think bussing could be 100% out of the question? I admit, it does seem unlikely though. But I was in a game once where the entire scumteam hardbussed it’s most powerful pr and they wound up winning. So I wouldn’t locktown anyone for that.

[Venus and Mars]

could be, that may have been the reason why it was so comical that he called himself "the most prolific critic" of std or something.

Also, I have seen scum!NM hardbus and early, so I’d actually be more suspicious of him if Kitty’s scum because he never called him “caught scum” like he has me.

Since STD has never taken such a fixed stance on me, a Kitty scum flip would look somewhat better for him. In Anything uPick scum!Sakura bussed her entire team and was so brilliant, even the dead thread was shocked she was scum.

[Venus and Mars]

could be, that may have been the reason why it was so comical that he called himself "the most prolific critic" of std or something.

like it was an over-the-top attempt to make it seem like they're really unaligned.

i dig you. i dig you.

Also, if Kitty’s scum and I’m not at all confident but based on that game you linked, far less so now but if he is, there’s some interesting interactions between him and NM.

[Venus and Mars]

im actually in the opinion that you are being trolled by N_M as part of a pre-game condition he set regardless of what happens.

Why would he do that? I have no history of him ever trolling me in any game ever. Chkflip I could see that because he a has but not NM, so hard no on that.

[Venus and Mars]

we need a strong flip for d1. not a compromise lurker low info flip like kitty. n_m (because this is the strongest way to gain info from that slot/player) or std (i still think he can be scum here, and i want to err towards the majority than the minority).

sorry in advance if both are town.

Compromise wagons tend to be town since scum can steer people into them easily.

I'm fine with NM or STD too.

I don't like how kitty has had one basic take most of the game and has doubled down on it without engaging. It looks like scum piling on.

I am not pushing anyone else because you are my biggest scumread, ahead of NM.

Anyone else think it's sus as hell that the STD wagon dissolved and his most prolific pusher is being wagoned now? STD is scum, and scum is sterring people away from him.

[Venus and Mars]

I still think Kitty is > likely than not lfh town but if scum, NM looks like possible distancing here.

I still don’t understand why he calls me “caught scum” and pushes Kitty. Shouldn’t he be trying to get me limmed not Kitty?

[Venus and Mars]

I still think Kitty is > likely than not lfh town but if scum, NM looks like possible distancing here.

I still don’t understand why he calls me “caught scum” and pushes Kitty. Shouldn’t he be trying to get me limmed not Kitty?

But town!STD definitely would makes Kitty look worse.

I would say if Kitty’s scum, it looks better for STD than NM. I’ve only played one game with scum!STD and he really didn’t do much in the way of bussing.

[Venus and Mars]

But what HEM said was true

Nancy does thing ---> HEM points out that Nancy does thing --> Nancy asks where she did thing --> HEM shows where Nancy did thing --> Nancy calls it making shit up --> I hammer Nancy and she flips scum

N_M was so supportive here and it's so sweet, but i haven't really seen that before. not super exposed to N_M tho so i want others to weigh in if this is characteristic. so it could be evidence of pocketing behavior if it's out of his town range?

Yeah I didn't see NM do this before. And I only played with town NM.

I really want to keep my vote on NM.

[Venus and Mars]

I was busy with a chemistry exam, sorry for being inactive!

I don't really support limming N_M day 1, as usual.

Nancy is town, forget what I said about NM, I don't think this is town NM.

FOS: Not_Mafia

Treat this as a vote in all but VC.

I was busy with a chemistry exam, sorry for being inactive!

I don't really support limming N_M day 1, as usual.

Nancy is town, forget what I said about NM, I don't think this is town NM.

FOS: Not_Mafia

Treat this as a vote in all but VC.

So what about NM made you think they were town?

It's not that I thought NM was town, it's just that I have a personal policy to not push NM day 1. Because most of what they do day 1 is NAI and thus it's a waste of a lim on someone who is null. But this time, their actions stood out as scummy to me.

I think Kitty/NM is either TvS or SvS. NM calling pushes on STD “dreadful” but not really doing much to defend him.

[Venus and Mars]

Spoiler:

here's my narrative report, it's been a while since i got enjoyment out of any games.

06/06/2022

i was falling off my interest in this game and it felt like the dichotomies were forced in that i can't emphatically say either nancy or std were town. i realized nobody were seriously pushing me because i'm not feeling like i'm being truly considered as scum (you might say Flea — but Flea was not even close to lighting any fire in my ass). I know myself to be a pretty polarizing figure, so when this happens it's notable to me. Immediately I felt like I'm being useful to scum or being pocketed. I knew our current picks might not be where we should be looking at.

I tried being superficial and baity, to see if someone would use that as an excuse to push me so close to deadline. So then there's Flea.

FLEA

I felt like Flea has always been going for me, but faer push lacked oomph in trying to corner or develop a stronger read on me — even as fae continues to inform me about the game and even as we interact and even as we make the same reads. it felt like that read was never being developed because there really wasn't any case to make here that you could turn into a scum narrative but fae has already sunk faer position in and it's awkward to openly waffle.

what's scummy to me is fae votes me understanding that it's nearing deadline and that this is faer choice for elimination. and yet, fae doesn't feel the need to case me and convince others to join faer wagon. actions speaks — fae does not believe in this wagon. and for that fae was surescum for me. the argument was so strong in my head: flea does not have a town mindset in her voting patterns and her pushes. i have put out an entire page's worth of dialogue:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1200
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1225

well, until recently that i realized i may have misunderstood faer last post and fae may have just slept through and will case me and pursue me later. That's the asterisk. Will fae? I guess I'll find out.

Unfortunately, in my frenzy to lim who i thought was pretty confirmed scum, I have made myself openly wrong about something. Uh oh. I was wrong and I acknowledged it. How can we follow humaneatingmonkey into battle? How can we sure that he really is a hero? Is he actually scum?

RODEN

I felt that Roden's entire shtick was to discredit me and nothing else. How do I know? Look at this post.

So, the problem is that you're already wrong HEM. You seemed to be making your scum case on a couple posts and a VC that you misinterpreted. You were begging town to just trust you and follow you onto a Flea wagon using faulty information. And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

Like...you see the problem here, right? Was it just a "whoopsie tee hee" moment, or false bravado?

HEM, YOU WERE WRONG. YOU BEING WRONG IS EVIDENCE THAT YOU CAN NOT BE TRUSTED OR THAT YOU ARE BEING FAKE.

Also that whoopsie tee hee thing that locks me into looking like an asshole. I can't care less about that.

Are you buying that? Let me know in the comments below.

I can buy Roden having shittakes like that. We all make shit takes. I've seen him do a lot of shit takes. Plus, he even acknowledges that town can be wrong.

But he uses this as a reason to finally vote me. He uses this as a reason to invalidate me voting for KittyTacky. You know what that feels like? It feels like I was closing in on KittyTacky, his scum partner, and the game was finally going to a direction where it might be viable to get the numbers to elim Kitty. And then he discredits me. Weird huh. Even weirder, he doesn't believe I should be trusted or that no one should follow my wagons anymore — but I was pushing KittyTacky then, who Roden describes as probable scum. So what has been the point of voting me, or discrediting my push? You tell me.

Because you're making a lot of pushes, making and breaking mindmeld, and you've been very self-conscious of the fact that no one had seriously scum read you

And when someone does scum read you because you did something scummy, you just OMGUS me and use your past scum tells

1. I'm scum because I'm making a lot of pushes. (notes: really bruh?)
2. I'm scum for

making

and breaking mindmelds. (notes: really bruh?)
3. you've been very self-conscious of the fact that no one had seriously scum read you (note: how is this scummy?)

This is his double down.

The "past scum tells" he's saying here is from a previous game: I aggro'd him immediately upon him asking other people if he was pocketed.

He said it didn't work, but it totally worked!

I actually understand that one concern. But the circumstances were dissimilar and I OMGUS everyone — even in my town games. Not sure I would believe that he didn't understand the difference, but I can give him this point.

This read is actually independent of whether or not KittyTack is scum because I can see him doing it regardless of how Kitty would flip. It was a free strike against me — and a strike is all it is.

KITTYTACKY

My thing with Kitty is actually simple. He does not feel like his town game at all. His latest postings is so duuuumb I refuse to believe this is the real KittyTacky. That's it. I'm the worst at meta or parsing meta info so I need help with this one.

Ultimately though, this takes priority.

I understand if all three ended up being town, I look like a fucking jackass and this is a comedy moment. I can accept that. But if these are the three scum.... shieeeet. I need a scummy? Just kidding I'm probably wrong because

DWLEE AND ENCHANT

Holy shit. What non-presence, huh?

Although Dwlee pops in once in a while, that's not outside of his scum range.
What's more alarming is Enchant, who is uncharacteristically quiet. Where's the impatience? Where's the comic takes?

A lie-low approach is what I'm expecting scum to be in if outside in these ranges, and a probable answer to the feeling that started all this.

And now I feel more useful than ever. Thanks for reading all of this.

What I’m thinking is if Kitty’s scum here, where are his buddies if he’s not a bus?

So why would a Kitty red flip not clear NM? Because Kitty’s sussing him, so that’s why he’s pushing Kitty and not his “caught scum” read.

If Kitty flips green, NM will say I had a tmi read on him and if he flips red, he will accuse me of trying to save a buddy.

It’s scummy that he pushes Kitty without altering his read on me in the slightest.

[Venus and Mars]

nancy what are you thoughts now on roden and flea?

I ISO’d Kitty, you and Roden in that game. You’re play is probably the most different. I was totally fooled by Roden in newbie, so idk. I think he and Enchant are unlikely to be SvS based on their interactions but idk. Flea is still a solid tr for me.

Since Roden is confidently tr me, I don’t understand why Shiro’s take matters so much. He hasn’t had a chance to read anything so far. If he didn’t tr me, I would understand it more. Idk. I guess he’s fine for me rn.

I will reread it but his question to you about why a Kitty scumflip would make either STD or NM townlocks I agree with. I also don’t understand why you made that post about NM pre-game trolling me, when I think it’s beyond obvious he wants me dead.

[Venus and Mars]

im actually in the opinion that you are being trolled by N_M as part of a pre-game condition he set regardless of what happens.

I really don’t understand why you made this post and what you’re basing it on?

NM has been very seriously deathtunnelling me all game, which makes me really not want to vote Kitty because it’s so extremely suspicious to me that he is doing that without reconsidering his read on me in the slightest.

[Venus and Mars]

So, the problem is that you're already wrong HEM. You seemed to be making your scum case on a couple posts and a VC that you misinterpreted. You were begging town to just trust you and follow you onto a Flea wagon using faulty information. And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

Like...you see the problem here, right? Was it just a "whoopsie tee hee" moment, or false bravado?

okay so whats your point?

Why should town trust you?

roden are you scum

Yeah you said this last time you were scum when I was trying to reassess you too.

how do you read kitty?

Probably scum.

So, the problem is that you're already wrong HEM. You seemed to be making your scum case on a couple posts and a VC that you misinterpreted. You were begging town to just trust you and follow you onto a Flea wagon using faulty information. And now you want us to trust you and follow onto the Kitty wagon.

Like...you see the problem here, right? Was it just a "whoopsie tee hee" moment, or false bravado?

are you not presenting me as untrustworthy and being fake? false bravado? "whoopsie tee hee"? it's dogwhistled all over these posts

Wait @Roden, you think Kitty’s scum here, so I’m seriously confused now.

????

[Venus and Mars]

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

Who other than Enchant? Kitty? based on that post? Who else?

[Venus and Mars]

im actually in the opinion that you are being trolled by N_M as part of a pre-game condition he set regardless of what happens.

I really don’t understand why you made this post and what you’re basing it on?

NM has been very seriously deathtunnelling me all game, which makes me really not want to vote Kitty because it’s so extremely suspicious to me that he is doing that without reconsidering his read on me in the slightest.

it's not serious if it's not backed up with pushes and votes. he's been on kittytacky, not on you. when talking about you, he was pretty dodgy and only refers to that first post which is obviously bullshit. i could be overestimating how much of a prankster n_m is, but do you feel me?

I believe you might actually believe this but no, I don’t believe there’s a snowball’s chance in hell he’s pranking me.

[Venus and Mars]

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

Who other than Enchant? Kitty? based on that post? Who else?

STD. He was aligned with STD to vote you out, then after I questioned and grilled STD he switching to scum reading him.

Actually literally why do I ever push you HEM if I'm scum when Nancy and STD are easier options I can hide in

Do you really think you're that valuable of a mis-elim to me when you've been prepared to vote all of the people I've suspected this game

honestly what are these questions

What's the issue?

Why do you sr Kitty and what are your reads on NM/Dwlee?

[Venus and Mars]

well let's ask him

n_m what's good

NM has never treated me like this in any game ever and I don’t recall him ever “pranking” anyone like that either. He also made it clear he thought V & M was a brand new hydra. NM doesn’t decide pre-game, I’m going to majorly piss off Nancy. He has no reason to do that.

[Venus and Mars]

So you and HEM seem to be mindmelding on a lot, so I’m really confused.

[Venus and Mars]

I agree that NM looks scummier than Dwlee. So the thing for me is NM’s Kitty push looks bad because he scumlocked me. No one else pushing Kitty has done that. Also, Kitty has repeatedly FOS’d NM but only pushes STD.

The reason why NM would not be clear from a Kitty scumflip is because Kitty never put NM in danger nor has NM ever been in danger, STD actually has.

If Kitty’s scum, why is he hard sr NM but never really pushing him? Like it looks like distancing if Kitty’s scum here.

[Venus and Mars]

@Gamma, what do you think of Kitty?

[Venus and Mars]

Emotionally Roden seems different here than in newbie. Well if Kitty’s indeed scum here, than he’s obviously the good cop in my theory or at least one.

[Venus and Mars]

his most prolific pusher

that's the boldest claim since the manifest destiny

i'll vote kitty just for 1261. this isn't town kitty. kitty is mostly self-aware, iirc.

Legit curious who you think is pushing STD harder.

Can you give us some reads?

Other than STD and me. I assume you’re still sr NM? What do you think of Roden’s read on you?

[Venus and Mars]

NANCY

FLEA

Flea’s pushing you harder and no one is currently pushing NM harder than me.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: Kittytacky back to this i think? i just disagree with nancy's tr of kitty

what scares me is what i said earlier about nancy possibly town reading someone she knows is a townie (as scum) or defending her partner (as scum). so my biggest concern with a kitty elim is that it's not going to help me solve nancy at all

@Kitty, besides the vote on you, what do you think of the rest of STD’s post?

[Venus and Mars]

@Kitty, what do you think of my NM case?

[Venus and Mars]

I’m pushing Kitty because

A) I don’t believe the Nancy Elim will go through, not today at least
B) Nancy asked me to back off and I’m okay with putting it on the back burner for now

Why aren’t you listening to anyone else’s reads on me?

[Venus and Mars]

@Kitty, what do you think of my NM case?

I do think that the inconsistency he showed with his pushes is weird. One of my reasons for SRing NM. This also doesn't "feel" like town NM.

So why not vote him then? I think STD is more likely to be town here than NM. It’s not townie to ignore other players’ reads and not reacess. NM isn’t even considering the possibility he could be wrong.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: Kittytacky back to this i think? i just disagree with nancy's tr of kitty

what scares me is what i said earlier about nancy possibly town reading someone she knows is a townie (as scum) or defending her partner (as scum). so my biggest concern with a kitty elim is that it's not going to help me solve nancy at all

This post sounds uninformed to me, so I don’t understand why you’re not recessing your STD read. @Kitty

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: Kittytacky back to this i think? i just disagree with nancy's tr of kitty

what scares me is what i said earlier about nancy possibly town reading someone she knows is a townie (as scum) or defending her partner (as scum). so my biggest concern with a kitty elim is that it's not going to help me solve nancy at all

This post sounds uninformed to me, so I don’t understand why you’re not recessing your STD read. @Kitty

disregard this, I see you switched your vote.

[Venus and Mars]

@Kitty, what do you think of my NM case?

I do think that the inconsistency he showed with his pushes is weird. One of my reasons for SRing NM. This also doesn't "feel" like town NM.

So why not vote him then? I think STD is more likely to be town here than NM. It’s not townie to ignore other players’ reads and not reacess. NM isn’t even considering the possibility he could be wrong.

You know what? You made me realize I was kinda deathtunneled on STD for a few icky plays. I did that in my last game and got several townies killed. STD is still pretty scummy, but N_M is just as or even more.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Well that’s the difference, STD seems to be genuinely trying to sort me, NM still deathtunnells me.

[Venus and Mars]

If Kitty flips green, NM will say I had a tmi read on him and if he flips red, he will accuse me of trying to save a buddy.

i've basically said that i think this is the case wrt my scumread of you, i'm not sure how i feel about you attributing it to NM

????

Dude, he’s deathtunnelled on me no matter what I do. So you know this is 100% true. How are you even questioning this?

[Venus and Mars]

flea is probably my top town read at this point and if flea is scum i will be gagged gooped and betwizled

Then why tf aren’t you listening to faer? I’m kind’ve getting extremely frustrated with people obvtr Flea and ignoring faer reads wrt to me.

It really doesn’t make much sense.

[Venus and Mars]

I’m pushing Kitty because

A) I don’t believe the Nancy Elim will go through, not today at least
B) Nancy asked me to back off and I’m okay with putting it on the back burner for now

Why aren’t you listening to anyone else’s reads on me?

Because I don't agree with them

or maybe you’re just scum.

[Venus and Mars]

Also, Nancy saying she wishes I'd stop death tunneling her because it's angering her and she might get banned for it. Then me backing off out of respect, which Nancy then starts pushing me for is pretty sketchy

How is that “sketchy”? And why should I be tr you for a shitty deathtunnel that you refuse to not only reacess but also refuse to take anyone else’s opinion into account. You sr any and everything I post and that is a fact.

[Venus and Mars]

Also, Nancy saying she wishes I'd stop death tunneling her because it's angering her and she might get banned for it. Then me backing off out of respect, which Nancy then starts pushing me for is pretty sketchy

gross fuckin misrep right here

He seems to think I should cut him slack readswise for this. Humanwise, fine but readswise - well talk about delusional again?

That’s just an extremely disingenuous take from NM, similar to saying it’s “on [me]” and not him if I’m mislilmed.

[Venus and Mars]

I'm unsure, this is bloody difficult one, but we are indeed running out of time
I think Nancy/Shiro could be town with Gamma and Flea

I also think there could potentially be a scum somewhere in HEM/Roden/STD

I like this because Flea and Gamma have been my top 2 trs from the getgo.

[Venus and Mars]

Liking roden.

Nancy is attacking NM the same way she attacked you. Am I sr her for something Nancy just does as town?

I don't know if I like facebones reads

What part?

Who are you referring to here? Who is “you”?

[Venus and Mars]

NM & STD: Flea is my top tr.

Flea locktowns me.

NM & STD: have 0 interest in listening or taking any stock in any of Flea’s reasons for pretty much locktowning me.

[Venus and Mars]

I dont know, okay?
I DON'T KNOW

Stop yelling at me, Roden

Feel the best about Flea, Gamma, FB

Liking Dwlee a bit more. If Kitty’s town, will be taking a hard look at that wagon.

[Venus and Mars]

Face you kinda need to do something besides acting bewildered and befuddled

I have no idea where to place you in this game, and hedging on where to vote isn't helping

It isn't like you didn't have an entire day phase to poke around and question people. Getting mad and overwhelmed about not knowing where to vote now just looks off.

Why?

[Venus and Mars]

I dont know, okay?
I DON'T KNOW

Stop yelling at me, Roden

@Roden, I don’t understand how you get “off” from this?

[Venus and Mars]

Im on rodens side in this debate

Oh really? He sounds more like overwhelmed town to me than anything but I suppose I could be swayed by his mindmelding with me on Flea/Gamma but still don’t see why it’s necessarily “off”?

[Venus and Mars]

im busy today. i want to vote n_m, enchant, facebones.

Why FB? You townbinned him previously.

[Venus and Mars]

i got convinced of facebones being bewildered constantly as a scumtell. then i realized it doesn't make sense, and saw that it was roden who floated that idea.

I have no meta on FB but I read his “I don’t know” as sounding like confused and overwhelmed town. I also think that since Flea and Gamma are such obvious townies here, I don’t see the scum motivation for making that comment.

Wrt Roden, his frustration in his back and forth with you sounded kind of genuine to me but I like FB not immediately jumping on Kitty whatever he is, especially because I’m not convinced Kitty’s scum here and not lhf.

Usually when there’s a pile up on a player who isn’t flaming obvscum, they tend to be a mislim, unless it’s a bus. I currently lean the former.

[Venus and Mars]

Face you kinda need to do something besides acting bewildered and befuddled

I have no idea where to place you in this game, and hedging on where to vote isn't helping

It isn't like you didn't have an entire day phase to poke around and question people. Getting mad and overwhelmed about not knowing where to vote now just looks off.

Why?

I dont know, okay?
I DON'T KNOW

Stop yelling at me, Roden

@Roden, I don’t understand how you get “off” from this?

I don't think it's fair to come in at EoD and complain you don't know what to do if you didn't really do anything all Day in the first place

Everyone else actually has takes on the game

It's annoying if he's town and just an excuse if he's scum

None of that makes him scum. Where is he “complaining”? All he said was for you not to “yell” at him? Not saying I agree with that but I don’t understand your harshness on his slot.

[Venus and Mars]

I'm unsure, this is bloody difficult one, but we are indeed running out of time
I think Nancy/Shiro could be town with Gamma and Flea

I also think there could potentially be a scum somewhere in HEM/Roden/STD

I dont know, okay?
I DON'T KNOW

Stop yelling at me, Roden

Nothing about any of his posts are “off” @Roden.

[Venus and Mars]

NM/Nancy and Roden/HEM both are good chance pairing s containing one scum each

I’m not scum and it still concerns me that you’re not seeing that. I can understand it initially but at this point, I am way way way out of my scumrange.

[Venus and Mars]

I think roden HEM is tvt

STD, who is your current best guess for the scumteam?

[Venus and Mars]

Facebones kittytacky and ????

Why FB? I really don’t see anything in his ISO remotely scummy.

[Venus and Mars]

Who's the scum team, HEM?

Roden roden roden

???

[Venus and Mars]

Im in the hosp right now so serious answers only later

Oh, damn I hope everything goes well

+1

[Venus and Mars]

NM & STD: Flea is my top tr.

Flea locktowns me.

NM & STD: have 0 interest in listening or taking any stock in any of Flea’s reasons for pretty much locktowning me.

So what is flea is a town read, doesn’t mean I have to change my reads to match theirs

Usually when someone confidently trs a slot, they don’t completely ignore it when they have a locktown read on someone. Or did you somehow miss that part?

[Venus and Mars]

18 hours left. Can we consolidate somewhere?

After sleeping on it, I think I'd rather keep HEM around another day. He says he wants to push me tomorrow, maybe I'll be able to sort him better once he puts together a scum case on me. I also want to see if he'll put his money where his mouth is and actually throw Pain potions at me.

Currently down to go for either NM or Kitty, preferably Kitty though.

VOTE: Kitty

Compromise wagons are usually town.

d1 pile ups on d1 usually are and I still think you probably flip town here. It’s obvious wagonomics. You’re too townie to be a bus but not townie enough not to be a wagon. In the majority of cases, that results in a miselim.

[Venus and Mars]

Look, I'm genuinely trying to solve. I changed my mind wrt the STD tunnel. N_M, however, is tunneled extremely hard. Can we lim them?

If they were either actually deathtunnelling me for a valid reason or reacessing at all, I’d consider voting elsewhere but both these things considered + them blaming me for my miselim and refusing to even consider they could possibly be wrong is anti-town at best.

What is your take on the HEM/Roden fight?

[Venus and Mars]

[instrumental]

vote count 1.9

KittyTacky (3):

Not_Mafia, Save The Dragons, Enchant

Not_Mafia (2):

Venus and Mars, KittyTacky

humaneatingmonkey (2):

Flea The Magician, Roden

Venus and Mars (1):

Dwlee99

Dwlee99 (1):

Gamma Emerald

Roden (1):

humaneatingmonkey

not voting (1):

Facebones

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to meet me up in heaven. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-07 14:57:40)

modorator notes

• oh no beeeeeeees

@mod, is there any chance of getting even a slight extension so Shiro can catch up?

[Venus and Mars]

I think I’m slightly leaning on disagreeing with STD that both HEM/Roden are T/T but beyond that I have no idea.

[Venus and Mars]

Hi~ I read from. The point I entered the game to now, am I planning to read the rest? Eeeh probably not

~Venus

[Venus and Mars]

I was pretty certain HEM was scum btw, up until his wall post. I kinda really liked that post.

[Venus and Mars]

I was pretty certain HEM was scum btw, up until his wall post. I kinda really liked that post.

The problem is we only have under 10 hrs’ now to decide on a wagon unless we get an extension.

~Mars

Shiro’s Venus, in case anyone isn’t clear on that.

[Venus and Mars]

Look, I'm genuinely trying to solve. I changed my mind wrt the STD tunnel. N_M, however, is tunneled extremely hard. Can we lim them?

I don’t think Kitty’s scum.

[Venus and Mars]

Look, I'm genuinely trying to solve. I changed my mind wrt the STD tunnel. N_M, however, is tunneled extremely hard. Can we lim them?

If they were either actually deathtunnelling me for a valid reason or reacessing at all, I’d consider voting elsewhere but both these things considered + them blaming me for my miselim and refusing to even consider they could possibly be wrong is anti-town at best.

What is your take on the HEM/Roden fight?

Either TvT or TvS, it REALLY doesn't look like scum theater.

Kitty’s town, I’m gonna hard veto this wagon.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

I'm unsure, this is bloody difficult one, but we are indeed running out of time
I think Nancy/Shiro could be town with Gamma and Flea

I also think there could potentially be a scum somewhere in HEM/Roden/STD

Where the fuck have you been all day? I'm sure you're generally more active in games.

I hate activity reads in general and I don’t sr any of his posts but from what I’ve read in a metadive, he is more active as town. I just wonder that if scum, his buddies wouldn’t coach him to do more. But I think he really hates playing scum. \_0_/

I’m guessing you think there’s associatives between him and HEM?

I guess seeing how the votes flow will help me decide.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

Another reason for tr Kitty is he doesn’t look to be alligned with anyone. I think you, me and Gamma have been the main opposition to that wagon and I confidently tr both of you.

[Venus and Mars]

[instrumental]

vote count 1.9

KittyTacky (3):

Not_Mafia, Save The Dragons, Enchant

Not_Mafia (2):

Venus and Mars, KittyTacky

humaneatingmonkey (2):

Flea The Magician, Roden

Venus and Mars (1):

Dwlee99

Dwlee99 (1):

Gamma Emerald

Roden (1):

humaneatingmonkey

not voting (1):

Facebones

with 11 alive, it takes 6 to meet me up in heaven. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-07 14:57:40)

modorator notes

• oh no beeeeeeees

@mod, is there any chance of getting even a slight extension so Shiro can catch up?

I don’t think we have enough time to flashwagon FB. Kitty’s currently at 3, so I don’t see it happening.

[Venus and Mars]

FB or HEM is my yeet options, I'm around all day checking intermittently.

HEM had 2 votes before you switched and we would need 2 more because a tie=Kitty lim and I’m going to sleep soon, so I probably won’t be around before deadline. It’s possible but very unlikely.

[Venus and Mars]

Still don’t hate FB posting but he isn’t really taking a stand on much. I guess I prefer him to Kitty,

[Venus and Mars]

im busy today. i want to vote n_m, enchant, facebones.

no maybe not facebones

maybe actually roden, n_m, enchant

I definitely don’t want to vote Roden.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: FB

I can’t stay awake much longer @Flea. If you want me to switch, you need to let me know soon.

[Venus and Mars]

everyone survives the night.

only natural to harden up

vote count 2.0

not voting (10):

Gamma Emerald, Nancy Sinatra, Flea The Magician, Enchant, KittyTacky, Not_Mafia, Dwlee99, Save The Dragons, humaneatingmonkey, Roden

with 10 alive, it takes 6 to meet me up in heaven. day 1 starts now and ends in (expired on 2022-06-19 12:00:03)

modorator notes

• thread unlocked
  
• b

I jk’d NM last night.

[Venus and Mars]

Amazing elim everyone.

VOTE: HEM

I should have stuck to my initial tr, sorry fb.

I think Enchant sounds townie.

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: gamma

Why?

[Venus and Mars]

HEM I thought you were going to kill me with Pain potions

What happened

@HEM did you claim this? @Roden can you link/quote the post, I’m too damned lazy.

[Venus and Mars]

@mod, why didn’t we get d2 start pms?

[Venus and Mars]

Gamma is shady

Care to elaborate?

[Venus and Mars]

I jk’d NM last night

Why though

Isn’t it obvious? I thought if he had a pain potion, he’d use it on us.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

HEM I thought you were going to kill me with Pain potions

What happened

@HEM did you claim this? @Roden can you link/quote the post, I’m too damned lazy.

roden, you're scum. you're getting my potions tonight.

So what happened @HEM?

[Venus and Mars]

Wasn't a compromise, it was one I genuinely believed in. Not even sorry on that one. I need to put some time aside for this game which is likely to be tomorrow so I can reassess stuff.

Well, what did we gain from his flip? I don’t see how we learned anything. All we know was his alignment and what potions he had.

His posting read townie but when I looked at his other games, he had done a helluva a lot more. At any rate, I still think Kitty’s town, so I think we likely would have gotten a miselim either way.

Anyway, what I learned from FB flip is to trust my instincts and they haven’t changed on Kitty.

I think there’s probably one scum in HEM/Roden and beyond that, I’m clueless.

Rn, lean HEM based off what Roden said about the pain potions.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

i dont feel well, and i'll be more present tomorrow. you all can wait, day just began.

Of course, feel free to take as much time as you need. Rl always comes before any game.

[Venus and Mars]

i used my potion of harmography to see if anyone targetted venus and mars. there was none.

Wow really? So I totally wasted my jk potion on NM then:/

Well I guess that’s good news then.

This game is really frustrating. At first I thought it was due to NM and his crazy deathtunel on me but now it’s whomever scum is in this game, they’re doing a pretty bang up job of fooling me, which totally sucks.

[Venus and Mars]

potion of Pain: at night, you may drizzle this on a player's dinner; they will take 1 HP of damage by the end of the night. a player is unable to use more than one Pain potion each night.

ingredients: green crud, grey witherments, tonine, broken magics, mute blue crud

So, if scum can use multiple pain potions and actually kill a player in a single night and we jk’d NM and according to HEM no one targeted us, so what are the odds here that scum no killed?

If pretty much none, it would mean that NM was either the target or scum unless we weren’t the only one who used jk last night. If anyone used harmography on NM, that would be extremely helpful.

If no one else claimed jk on any one than it would mean that NM was either the target or scum right?

[Venus and Mars]

i used my potion of harmography to see if anyone targetted venus and mars. there was none.

Wow really? So I totally wasted my jk potion on NM then:/

Well I guess that’s good news then.

This game is really frustrating. At first I thought it was due to NM and his crazy deathtunel on me but now it’s whomever scum is in this game, they’re doing a pretty bang up job of fooling me, which totally sucks.

Not true. If NM tried to pain you then the jailkeep blocked it so it didn't show up to the harmography

Also, scum are likely "going wide" with their potions by spreading them out so they can kill multiple at once, but it slightly depends on how many pains they have

Oh you’re absolutely right. If HEM used harmography on me and I jk’d NM, it definitely wouldn’t show up. So all HEM has actually proven then is that no one other than NM visited me last night, correct?

[Venus and Mars]

if we're just claiming

i JK'd kitty last night

Maybe we should all mass claim which potions we used last night and on whom.

[Venus and Mars]

pain potion users shouldn't claim targets, someone already said this
which head is this?

Who said it? It’s Nancy why?

[Venus and Mars]

Aye, before anyone try to claim actions, beware.


If you used pain potions, state only fact you used it, not target. We don't want mafia knowing who we attacked and thus who have just 1HP.

Oh okay on everything except for pain potions then. That’s why I’m hydraing because I pretty much suck at mech.

[Venus and Mars]

I want to withhold my usage for now, but i used pot.

Wut

[Venus and Mars]

Pot is "MMORPG" term.

Pot = Potion

Oh lol, I thought you were referring to something else. Well what potion and unless it’s pain you can tell us on who right?

[Venus and Mars]

Dwlee, why haven’t you asked more questions so far in this game?

[Venus and Mars]

Dwlee, why haven’t you asked more questions so far in this game?

Disregard this.

[Venus and Mars]

Dwlee, why haven’t you asked more questions so far in this game?

Look at KTANE

I just did.

[Venus and Mars]

I didn't use any potions, I actually don't have any at all. I'm a bit annoyed that Facebones had three and did nothing all game. Except complain about me while he was getting flash elim'd by everyone else, I guess.

How do you not have any? I have 3.

[Venus and Mars]

I used a pain potion last night

Well I won’t ask whom you targeted but I’ll just say Dwlee’s probably right that I didn’t waste my jk on you.

[Venus and Mars]

I used a doctor potion on Venus and Mars.

<3

i used my potion of harmography to see if anyone targetted venus and mars. there was none.

Wait what?

Oh nm, STD jk’d you.

[Venus and Mars]

Ha take that no doctor for you

But according to HEM I didn’t need one, right because my jk of NM took care of that.

[Venus and Mars]

Ha take that no doctor for you

But according to HEM I didn’t need one, right because my jk of NM took care of that.

Actually, that would be Dwlee but HEM said no one visited me, so the only player could have tried to kill me was NM or he could have tried to kill Kitty but probably unlikely.

[Venus and Mars]

You know he could be pocketing you

Who? HEM or Kitty?

[Venus and Mars]

Kitty. I claimed to JK him so he could literally claim any potion action if he believed me

True but I’ve already said I tr him, so why pocket me?

So what is your take re: HEM/Roden? Still think TYT?

[Venus and Mars]

i used my potion of harmography to see if anyone targetted venus and mars. there was none.

Wow really? So I totally wasted my jk potion on NM then:/

Well I guess that’s good news then.

This game is really frustrating. At first I thought it was due to NM and his crazy deathtunel on me but now it’s whomever scum is in this game, they’re doing a pretty bang up job of fooling me, which totally sucks.

Not true. If NM tried to pain you then the jailkeep blocked it so it didn't show up to the harmography

Also, scum are likely "going wide" with their potions by spreading them out so they can kill multiple at once, but it slightly depends on how many pains they have

That kind’ve sounds like what scum did in Forest Fire although the mech was slightly different.

[Venus and Mars]

Oh
I thought a DM potion could make that possible

does JK potion also prevent pain potions on the JK target from showing?

Gamma sounds uninformed.

[Venus and Mars]

potion of Doctor: at night, you may pour this potion on a saguaro cactus (one will be provided to you if necessary) and it will gain medicinal capabilities, able to save another player from 1 HP of Pain.

ingredients: peanit oil, bexynol hoargstanate-5, grey witherments, broken magics, lawsuit

Irl, this (or at least a few years ago) possibly could have killed me for realz.

[Venus and Mars]

Yes

Why ?I mean HEM whole charade last day was really damn scummy, if not for his big post I would have been pestering Nancy to vote them.

~Venus

[Venus and Mars]

i think the team is roden, std, and flea. i don't have the energy to push this or counter-check. i just wish someone would that for me.

Can you explain this? I don’t know why Flea is in this list.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

also potion of harmography only detects pain potions, not anything else.

I used a doctor potion on Venus and Mars.

<3

i used my potion of harmography to see if anyone targetted venus and mars. there was none.

Wait what?

Oh nm, STD jk’d you.

A harmography potion also can't detect a doctor shot.

So, all we know is that no one could have given me a pain potion except for NM.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

Oh
I thought a DM potion could make that possible

does JK potion also prevent pain potions on the JK target from showing?

Gamma sounds uninformed.

uniformed in mech =/= uniformed in alignments

You would have a scumteam to help you with that though, unless you’re going to argue that the entire scumteam doesn’t understand mech?

~M

[Venus and Mars]

{kitty, gamma, venus and mars} contain at least one scum, who knows maybe 3

I was actually thinking I was wrong about yoi before this post. It’s extremely obvious by this point that I can’t be scum or it should be to you since I don’t think you’re this terrible at reading me. But you saying all 3 is extremely suspicious in itself.

I am not scum. I think this is Kitty town meta and you arguing that Gamma could seriously be uninformed mech scum is whack.

Now had you disputed what I had said about that it would be different but afaik from your play, you’re not a particularly moonlogicky type of thinker, so you would know that you either disagree about me saying Gammais uninformed about mech or you don’t but it makes no sense for you to argue that an entire scumteam would have to be mech uninformed.

So, I’m thinking maybe you could be scum because this take is bad: both because of your read on me and the logical ludicrousness of thinking that hypothetical Gamma!scum could seriously be uninformed. How does that even make sense to you?

[Venus and Mars]

Now, I know that you didn’t specifically say that but obviously you can’t think the entire team could not be mech informed, right? So assuming one scum is mech informed, you think they wouldn’t inform all of their teammates?

That’s why I say, you either dispute what I said about Gamma being mech uninformed or you can’t think he’s scum because both of these things don’t go together, unless you are going to seriously argue that the entire scumteam, could seriously be uninformed about mech.

So what is it?

A) I’m wrong.
B) You are.
C) You’re scum and therefore arguing this in bad faith.

Because it’s 100% one of the three.

[Venus and Mars]

Why would a scumteam not talk about mech?

Like that would be really really stupid. Did you read the scum pt in FFIV? Because we discussed everything in there. Now granted that’s a different kind of setup and we didn’t understand how optimally navigate the raids but this otoh would have to be straightforward to at least one scum and that scum would make damned sure that the entire team would understand how their potions worked.

So, I don’t see how I’m wrong unless you think either there’s an entire team who doesn’t understand mech or that whichever scum(s) do would not share it with their team.

[Venus and Mars]

i've been on scumteams that didn't talk mech

you also just ignored

scum can just fake not having talked with their people

No I didn’t and of course that’s true but my point still stands. Do you really think it’s possible that if Gamma’s scum, he didn’t discuss potions with his entire team?

That’s why I say you either think I’m wrong about Gamma being mech uninformed or you don’t.

If you think it’s somehow faked then your argument isn’t illogical but if you honestly believe that he’s truly mech uninformed and scum, then something really bizarre would have to be going on with that team.

So your theory will possible but highly unlikely. But in this type of setup, I don’t see how unless you have an entire mech uninformed team - assuming at least one scum is mech informed, they don’t share it with the team.

Sure a team could fake that but that wasn’t the issue. You can’t logically agree that Gamma is both mech uninformed and scum, especially on d2.

D1, is more plausible because no flips and no claims yet but the scumteam would logically have discussed all this. Do you seriously not get my point?

[Venus and Mars]

I won’t claim to be above faking uninformed on mech but I would aim to be more aware of it as scum because you kinda have to be to do well

Well that’s my argument to STD. I’m saying his argument makes very little sense.

[Venus and Mars]

no one is above faking uniformed on mech as scum

I am saying that it doesn’t make logical sense to think a scumteam would not have discussed mech unless that entire team was uninformed.

I’m not saying any or an entire tram could not be capable of faking that. Those are two entirely different things.

[Venus and Mars]

i'm not saying it's not possible that gamma could be uninformed

it just means nothing because he could be faking it or scum may not have talked about it

Gamma was my hydra buddy in FFIV and I recall him being quite vocal about pretty much everything in both our hydra and scum pts.

[Venus and Mars]

so done with people not engaging me on good faith

How am I engaging you in bad faith? I’m pointing out your argument is bad.

I’m not saying that scum couldn’t pretend to be mech uninformed. I’m saying that a team that had an io of sense would extemely likely to be discussing it.

I haven’t voted you and rn, I’m leaning B).

i think you really haven’t thought this through and I think scum!you would probably not be making this type of easily debunked argument.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: hem

Interesting, so you’ve obviously changed your mind about the TvT.

So who do you think are HEM’s buddies then?

What I’m struggling with is that he claimed to have used harmography on me and he wouldn’t have had any way of knowing I had a jk right?

Now of course that is nai. It’s also possible that he used harmography on me to see if anyone used a pain potion on me, so if scum, he could then finish the job.

However, it’s pretty clear that the only player who would be likely to use a pain potion on me was NM but if HEM!scum and NM!town then he wouldn’t know that I’d be targeted. Or if scum, he’s buddies with NM and knows? or he knows I was targeted and hoping to frame NM for my death?

Like I think it’s extremely likely that NM used his pain potion on me, so either if HEM!scum, NM either a buddy and HEM knew it or he was possibly setting him up but yeah, why did he use harmography on me?

I would think if someone were to use a harmography potion it would have been on Flea.

@HEM why did you use harmography on me?

Also Flea is super obvtown here, so that take concerns me.

[Venus and Mars]

because you wanna strawman me for saying scum don't talk mech

???

I said I think it’s B. I think your argument that scum wouldn’t have discussed mech makes little sense. Read my posts. I don’t think you’re scum.

You’re thought process sounds genuine. There’s a difference between an logically flawed thought process and a scum one. It’s hard to explain but I don’t know if you understand my point but believe you think this.

You’re still not great a reading me but I don’t believe this is ever a scum take.

Scum generally isn’t good at faking something like that.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

Interesting, so you’ve obviously changed your mind about the TvT.

not really i'm just kind of giving up right now

maybe i'll feel it later

Okay, why do you think HEM used harmography on me?

He knows that NM irrespective of alignment would very likely have used a pp on me if he had one. So yeah, I’m a bit suspicious of that but if he and NM are aligned that he would of course have to have known that.

So it doesn’t really make logical sense for them to be aligned.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

I’m saying that HEM and NM are not aligned.

[Venus and Mars]

I’m saying that HEM and NM are not aligned.

Sorry I posted that before I read your last post.

[Venus and Mars]

yes that's fine

NM is town
HEM could be town/scum

He has Roden and Flea in his PoE, both who hard tr me. First off, Flea is never scum here but why would either Roden and Flea want to kill me?

So that really doesn’t make much sense.

[Venus and Mars]

My theory is that if scum, HEM wanted to find out if NM had a pain potion or not because he absolutely knew that if he had one, he’d probably use it on me.

This wouldn’t really be suspicious at all to me if his PoE didn’t have 2 players in it who have no reason to kill me.

And I think you’re town, so I see a disconnect between using harmography on me and his PoE.

[Venus and Mars]

*kicks self for not waiting to claim jk later because that might have possibly influenced other claims*

[Venus and Mars]

Fuck forgot it was weekend and I was larping.
also larping tomorrow.

SO, I was convinced on FB. I'm still set on V&M town, honestly. HEM still stinks and ngl I've not reread but my gut and its hard to ignore my gut honestly.

I took no action last night.

HEM, why is Flea scum here?

Like that is hands down the worst take of this entire game.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

My theory is that if scum, HEM wanted to find out if NM had a pain potion or not because he absolutely knew that if he had one, he’d probably use it on me.

This wouldn’t really be suspicious at all to me if his PoE didn’t have 2 players in it who have no reason to kill me.

And I think you’re town, so I see a disconnect between using harmography on me and his PoE.

That said, I 100% believe he did use harmography on me and his results are accurate, which is why his PoE doesn’t make much sense.

[Venus and Mars]

In OMB, scum!SS watched me instead of the player who was the most obvious nk. I think Flea was the logical choice for harmography to be used on not me.

I am however the most logical choice for scum to have used it on.

VOTE: HEM

~M

[Venus and Mars]

*claimed*

SS claimed to have watched me. His reason was that I was obvtown

but

I was not likely to have been in any immediate danger.

[Venus and Mars]

I think STD needs to go.

Why?

[Venus and Mars]

I used harmography on Kitty. Waited to see if someone suddenly appear, but nah.

No one came.

STD claimed jk on Kitty and harmography only works on pain potions.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

I used harmography on Kitty. Waited to see if someone suddenly appear, but nah.

No one came.

Why would you have used harmography on Kitty? Why would scum target him?

Also why would scum!STD claim jk on Kitty?

~M

[Venus and Mars]

I know that it only works on pain pots, duh.

No need to say “duh”. Why are you suddenly pushing him?

~M

[Venus and Mars]

HEM claimed to use harmography on me. I jk’d NM, he said no one visited me. Meaning no one used a pp on me but NM could have tried.

You used harmography on Kitty who STD claimed to have jk’d and found nothing, so that validates that STD’s claim is true.

So why is he scum?

~M

[Venus and Mars]

If you used harmography on Kitty and STD jk’d him, you wouldn’t get any results, so what is your reasoning for pushing STD?

No one claimed jk on me, so HEM’s harmography results actually mean something.

I also don’t understand why scum would target Kitty with a pp when he was pushable?

Tonight that would actually make sense because of doc potion but not last night.

Why does scum!STD target Kitty with a pp anyway?

~M

[Venus and Mars]

I expected other town will blast kitty, so it would be useful to prevent mafia from "Oh yeah, i damaged kitty too" and not needing providing real action.

If Kitty flipped scum, then basically i could knew people who is on conftown lvl and again prevent scum from tampering and claiming damage.


BUT ALL YOU ARE PACIFIST. DISGUSTING.

That last part seems highly over the top?

But you found nothing which proves STD’s jk claim and if mafia wanted to frame a townie from damaging Kitty, then why does scum!STD jk him?

Also STD claimed jk on Kitty before you claimed harmography on him, so he wouldn’t have any reason to think you’d have used it on him.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

UNVOTE:

for now

I’m extremely confused.

[Venus and Mars]

I expected other town will blast kitty, so it would be useful to prevent mafia from "Oh yeah, i damaged kitty too" and not needing providing real action.

If Kitty flipped scum, then basically i could knew people who is on conftown lvl and again prevent scum from tampering and claiming damage.


BUT ALL YOU ARE PACIFIST. DISGUSTING.

That last part seems highly over the top?

But you found nothing which proves STD’s jk claim and if mafia wanted to frame a townie from damaging Kitty, then why does scum!STD jk him?

Just what

My Harmography proves nothing. If Jailkeeps saves from potion not directly (not blockes attacker), it still shows attack happened.

On practice it means no one tried damage Kitty, or it was NM who was jailed directly. There no way to know if STD action is truth and i dislike your stance like it's confirmed.

I can make up many reasons why Kitty would be jailkeeped, but it's quessing game. He could also not to be at all.

Your harmography revealed nothing and STD claimed jk, so why would you dislike my believing it’s true?

There isn’t any contradiction here.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

From what I can tell, there aren’t any contradictions wrt to any of the claims, so sure STD could be lying about the jk but since your harmography check shows no one used a pp on Kitty, I don’t understand your reaction at all.

Unless I see a clear contradiction between the claims, it’s logical to believe them and I have thus far seen no contradictions.

So yes, that obviously doesn’t mean it’s impossible that anyone lied but unless there’s a contradiction between them, there’s no reason to assume that.

[Venus and Mars]

Because he could use pain instead/anything else.

I understand believing claims, building protections on something unproven is not really.

That’s true, I see your point. I still don’t understand why you think he’s scum?

[Venus and Mars]

I mean it’s possible. I read his reasoning on Gamma as logically flawed but sincere. I could be wrong but I still don’t understand why you think that?

If it’s connected to the mech wrt Kitty, then sorry it went completely over my head. I’m not great at mech.

[Venus and Mars]

It's nothing about mech and you are right, there's no contradictions. Mafia still forced to lie to damage, so here is fact that they most likely do.

Maybe i am wrong on STD, it's more from watching recent posting. I am most often wrong about everything, so expected... I also needed to sleep 6 hours ago, so fuck.

True but if they lie, they can be caught. If Kitty dies tomorrow, then we know STD probably lied about the jk and if I die, then HEM ditto.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: std awful ate
i used harmography on v&m to see if they're really obvtown. i didn't really know why no one would target them tonight.
i don't care if i have awful takes.

???

How does using harmography on me tell you that?

I jk’d NM and he claimed to have used a pain potion, so you can only know that no one but NM could have targeted me like Dwlee’s already pointed out.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

what i know is i think dwlee, enchant, n_m, gamma, kitty are all town. v&m used to be in here but typing that really slams the brakes on that read. everyone can flip for all i care.

Why would your read on me change now?

Like it seems that’s the same reason you suss Flea, because fae suspects you.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

a harmography potion is still able to detect pain potion usages which fail as a result of their target being doctored or imprisoned; however, pain potions that fail because the perpetrator is imprisoned will not be detected

Oh wait, just saw this.

@mod can you explain exactly what this means. I’m a bit confused by this, thanks.

[Venus and Mars]

Why would a scumteam not talk about mech?

Like that would be really really stupid. Did you read the scum pt in FFIV? Because we discussed everything in there. Now granted that’s a different kind of setup and we didn’t understand how optimally navigate the raids but this otoh would have to be straightforward to at least one scum and that scum would make damned sure that the entire team would understand how their potions worked.

So, I don’t see how I’m wrong unless you think either there’s an entire team who doesn’t understand mech or that whichever scum(s) do would not share it with their team.

Yeah, scum often fakes mech talk.

STD and N_M are probably partners.

I think we should get N_M first as there's a possibility STD is just tilted town.

What is the connection between NM and STD?

~M

[Venus and Mars]

VOTE: std awful ate
i used harmography on v&m to see if they're really obvtown. i didn't really know why no one would target them tonight.
i don't care if i have awful takes.

Does that include someone who’s jk’d? I also don’t understand the logic behind this take. Are you seriously suggesting that I can’t be obvtown unless someone targets me with a pain potion?

And why wouldn’t you care if your takes are awful? Don’t you want to have good reads?

[Venus and Mars]

i used harmography on v&m to see if they're really obvtown. i didn't really know why no one would target them tonight.

typing that gives me pause hmmm

what i know is i think dwlee, enchant, n_m, gamma, kitty are all town. v&m used to be in here but typing that really slams the brakes on that read. everyone can flip for all i care.

Okay, I thought you were referring to our posts but no, you’re actually saying that as a result of your findings of no one targeting me with us pain potion, we’re no longer obvtown?

This is the most insane thing I’ve probably ever read in any game ever.

[Venus and Mars]

i used my potion of harmography to see if anyone targetted venus and mars. there was none.

Wow really? So I totally wasted my jk potion on NM then:/

Well I guess that’s good news then.

This game is really frustrating. At first I thought it was due to NM and his crazy deathtunel on me but now it’s whomever scum is in this game, they’re doing a pretty bang up job of fooling me, which totally sucks.

Not true. If NM tried to pain you then the jailkeep blocked it so it didn't show up to the harmography

Also, scum are likely "going wide" with their potions by spreading them out so they can kill multiple at once, but it slightly depends on how many pains they have

VOTE: HEM

[Venus and Mars]

i used harmography on v&m to see if they're really obvtown. i didn't really know why no one would target them tonight.

typing that gives me pause hmmm

what i know is i think dwlee, enchant, n_m, gamma, kitty are all town. v&m used to be in here but typing that really slams the brakes on that read. everyone can flip for all i care.

A) you don’t know that NM didn’t target me according to what Dwlee said, so that take that no one targeted me isn’t provable.

B) even if Dwlee’s wrong, both that reason for targeting us with harmography + your conclusion is bs,

This isn’t how town thinks. Neither one.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

n_m has no reason to disclose that he used pain potions after you said that you jk'd him.
i dont know why it would be bs to think that a universal townread wouldn't get at least one pain potion during the night.

Because it’s probably true. Why wouldn’t he disclose it? Why would my jk claim influence that?

I am not a universal tr. NM didn’t think so and STD was still doubting me. Dwlee even thought one of NM or me were scum. You ototh are the only one who doesn’t tr Flea.

You don’t know that NM didn’t target me so again, that claim is bs.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

Aye, before anyone try to claim actions, beware.


If you used pain potions, state only fact you used it, not target. We don't want mafia knowing who we attacked and thus who have just 1HP.

[Venus and Mars]

Why wouldn’t he disclose it? Why would my jk claim influence that?

Why would scum!nm have any incentive to disclose using pain potions and give that information to the town?

Can you stop talking to me like I'm lying through my teeth and just engage my thoughts? There's nothing to be gained doing that. You're just making me dislike talking to you. I'm pretty reasonable. If you're scum, you're not gonna be able to pocket me this way and I'm already very discredited anyway. If you're town, you're just turning this conversation unproductive.

I’m currently voting you, in what world do you get pocket from that?

Why are you even asking me that? I’m saying that he claimed to have used the pain potions. I’m not calling him scum.

I’m saying that he’s probably telling the truth about that and since I jk’d him, you saying no one targeted me isn’t provable since he did claim to use one.

And if he didn’t use it on us, that has jack to do with our alignment anyway, so no I find your reasoning for using harmography on us difficult to believe, especially considering your conclusion.

[Venus and Mars]

That goes to everyone. Just talk to me nicely.

My head still feels like it's about to split so I would appreciate the courtesy. Thank you.

I don’t see how I’m not being “nice” here by being unconvinced by your reasoning but I’m sorry you’re not feeling well and I hope you feel better soon.

What I am saying is that your claim I wasn’t targeted isn’t provable because I jk’d NM.

I believe he told the truth about using a pain potion.

No where in any of my posts today did I call him scum, so you are clearly misconstruing my posting.

If he used his pain potion on anyone other than me and your results that no one targeted us with pain potion is actually accurate, your reasons for using harmography on us seem questionable at best because I already explained that it is not true that we were a universal townread and your conclusions wrt your changed view on our alignment make absolutely no sense.

~M

[Venus and Mars]

i'm saying nm telling us that he used pain potions even when he already knows he was jk'd was probably town indicative because it's volunteering information that isn't necessary and i have this impression that nm as scum would probably withhold information that wouldn't make him look like he's town. blanketly saying he used pain potions doesn't look good especially if he's widely scumread.

i used harmography on you because i believed you're very obviously town and it would probably be very hard to kill you in the day. scum would choose to do it in the night.
that nm is the only one who would in a hypothetical nm-inclusive scum team doesn't make much sense to me.

Again, I am not calling him scum.

[Venus and Mars]

...so you're not scumreading nm? i thought that was your whole deal. why did you jk nm?

Because he was deathtunnelled us all through d1 on our slot and I figured if anyone were to use a pain potion on us, it would be him if he had one and since STD claimed to have jk’d Kitty, if NM did use his pain potion on us, we for sure would be 100% dead tonight, if not for our jk on him.

[Venus and Mars]

...so you're not scumreading nm? i thought that was your whole deal. why did you jk nm?

Because he was deathtunnelled us all through d1 on our slot and I figured if anyone were to use a pain potion on us, it would be him if he had one and since STD claimed to have jk’d Kitty, if NM did use his pain potion on us, we for sure would be 100% dead tonight, if not for our jk on him.

If he used it on us that is but I don’t see why his read on us would change between d1 and n1, do you? So sure he could have potentially targeted someone other than me but that’s highly unlikely. That’s why I find both your reasons for using harmography on us and especially your conclusions to be extremely suss and probably not even accurate due to our jk on NM. But even if NM didn’t target us with his pain potion, you switching your read on us for the reasons you gave extremely suss.

[Venus and Mars]

so if you don't scumread nm, then an entire scum team that's not nm chose to not use a pain potion on you and that's why i think it's suspicious because like i said, i would imagine you're a threat to scum if town.

According to what you said and all of the claims if true, mean that no one could have targeted us other than NM but if we die tonight then maybe they’re not all true but as I said to Enchant, none of the claims contradict each other, so I’m not going to question their validity unless I have a reason to but if we die tonight, then it’s possible somebody lied.

[Venus and Mars]

so you think nm could have targetted you, and this might mean nm is the scum team member that targetted you and i should have known this so im sus? but i dont think nm is scum at all, see.

Are you not reading my posts or are you actually misrepping me?

I am saying that I think YOU’RE suss and it looks like your twisting my words.

[Venus and Mars]

your read is making little and little sense to me. is it making little and little sense to you as well?

What isn’t making sense is your INTERPRETATION of my posts. I think I’m being extremely clear.

[Venus and Mars]

i'm repeating it so that you can clarify actually

I’m saying that your reasoning for using harmography on us to determine our alignment makes little sense. especially since we were in no way a universal tr on d1.

But your conclusion of why you no longer obvtown read us based on your results are whack and not even provable.

It reads to me that because as Enchant has stated we’re likely healthy, scum can’t easily kill us tonight because of our jk.

[Venus and Mars]

so you think nm could have targetted you, and this might mean nm is the scum team member that targetted you and i should have known this so im sus? but i dont think nm is scum at all, see.

Are you not reading my posts or are you actually misrepping me?

I am saying that I think YOU’RE suss and it looks like your twisting my words.

yeah, that's what i said. you think im sus that i didn't conclude nm was the scum team member that targetted you from my pov. right?

I think you’re suss because your reasoning for using harmography on us make little sense and your conclusions on that are ridiculous regardless of who NM used his pain potion on and also unprovable because of our jk.

If you’re going to continue to misrep my posting, this conversation is pointless.

[Venus and Mars]

How many times do I need to repeat myself? I am NOT calling NM scum!

[Venus and Mars]

Gamma Emerald - townreads you d1
Venus and Mars (Nancy Drew 39 & Shiro)Nancy Sinatra - you
Flea The Magician - townreads you d1
Enchant - idk
Facebones - dead
KittyTacky - sides with you in std vs nancy

Not_Mafia - scumreads you
Dwlee99 - thinks it's possible you are scum
Save The Dragons - scumreads you

humaneatingmonkey - townreads you
Roden - townreads you

this is my tally. is this wrong?

Yes, I agree with this, so you have 3 players who wouldn’t have agreed your assessment that we’re a “universal tr”

So A) this disproves that we were a “universal tr on N1”.

And even if you actually did believe this:

B) your conclusion that no one targeted us because of our jk on NM is unprovable.

C) even if he didn’t target us, that shouldn’t affect your read on us.

D) You using harmography on us when you know there’s one player who hard sr us and had every incentive to use a pain potion on us, makes you choosing us as the target extremely suss because had we not had jk, you had every reason to think that NM was most likely to target us with a pain potion if he had one.

So I think you targeted us to determine if NM used a pain potion on us and had it not been blocked, scum would then logically conclude that we only had 1 hp. Then when we die you can push NM for killing us.

That is my current take. And your questionable claimed, reasoning for targeting us, your ridiculous as well as unprovable conclusions and now your continued repeated misrepping of my posts make me think you’re greater > rand chance of being scum here.

[Venus and Mars]

am i talking to the other head? can i talk to nancy instead, she's nicer to talk to.

well not nicer. i'd say less aggressive.

i don't really respond well to being called a liar so if you're town, maybe nancy's kinder tone while we discuss this might just be enough to bring my townread back.

This is Nancy, Shiro is the nice one.

[Venus and Mars]

am i talking to the other head? can i talk to nancy instead, she's nicer to talk to.

well not nicer. i'd say less aggressive.

i don't really respond well to being called a liar so if you're town, maybe nancy's kinder tone while we discuss this might just be enough to bring my townread back.

This is Nancy, Shiro is the nice one.

I also don’t think I’m even being not nice here. How am I even being rude to you? I think I’m being very respectful?

[Venus and Mars]

yeah you are

How am being rude? I criticized your takes, that isn’t rude.

[Venus and Mars]

If sorry that you’re offended by my tone but it’s extremely aggravating to have to keep repeating myself when I think I’ve been extremely clear.

[Venus and Mars]

yeah you are being very respectful

Oh then sorry, I misunderstood.