Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[Corwinoid]

Hi all!

clap...
corwinoid, are you from Amber?

That's a good read.

I've been following the thread so I'm mostly up to date but I want to go back through things with a little more scrutiny before I lay into anything now that I've replaced in.

[Corwinoid]

You know, before I even get into the rest of the thread... this has been sitting on me the entire time I've been following the game. Normally I wouldn't meta somebody, especially a new player, but this has to be called out:

1. How long have you played the game of mafia, not just on this site, but ever?
2. Do you like playing the role of town or mafia better?
3. Are you an active poster or a lurker?
4. Do you find it hard to lie or it something you have no issues with?

1. about a week, im newbie
2. yes
3. lurker
4. no

You sure? Your profile tells a very different story.

it was hacked

I honestly can't believe everyone has let this go so easily, and

this

is a

terrible

defense of it:

@somnus, that may be an issue for the mods?

The minute he introduced it into the game as a verifiable issue it became a game issue. Trying to discard it as irrelevant when it's pretty damn topical looks shady also.

The hacking claim is a bold faced lie, unless he's going to also claim his posting style, content, and flood posting exactly mimics the person who hacked him. Speaking of which, the flood posting is incredibly anti-town. And he finished that game fake claiming scum.

This isn't a player, or the kind of lying that I can trust at all. VOTE: Vasex

@Somnus, stick with your leads and pressure stuff like this harder.

[Corwinoid]

Sorry, the link didn't link probably (I haven't done bbcode in a long time). Vasex fake claiming scum to self-lynch by proxy: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12648212

[Corwinoid]

reminder not to say the "l-word". it's against site rules and we want to respect that.

Oof. Old habit... and I've been working really hard in my head to use elim and not make that mistake.

[Corwinoid]

u still dont understand the logics why i self-claimed mafia there??? really?
it was perfect move from me
it provided the victory to us - to town
because if we voted "no elim" (4 players), we could lose if roleblocker blocks wrong person , but if i fleep green, he could listen to me - and he listened. before i fliped green he was going to do the worst move in game, and we had almost no chance to win. reread my explanation of this move, im proud of it

Okay, so now you admit you blatantly lied about your previous experience and being hacked.

I think a lie this downright blatant about an external entity negating your play history undermines the integrity of the game and your position in it. I would absolutely policy lynch this slot on principle now.

[Corwinoid]

Blatantly lying and destroying any trust we can have in you is not the perfect tactic for day one in a new game. You need to go.

[Corwinoid]

1. How long have you played the game of mafia, not just on this site, but ever?
2. Do you like playing the role of town or mafia better?
3. Are you an active poster or a lurker?
4. Do you find it hard to lie or it something you have no issues with?

1. about a week, im newbie

First lie

But you played in two games on this account last year?

nope

Second lie.

You sure? Your profile tells a very different story.

You sure? Your profile tells a very different story.

it was hacked

Third lie.

ewww
booo
u still dont understand the logics why i self-claimed mafia there??? really?
it was perfect move from me
it provided the victory to us - to town
because if we voted "no elim" (4 players), we could lose if roleblocker blocks wrong person , but if i fleep green, he could listen to me - and he listened. before i fliped green he was going to do the worst move in game, and we had almost no chance to win. reread my explanation of this move, im proud of it

And admitting all of them in your own words.

[Corwinoid]

So I usually don't like giving blanket reads on everyone, I don't think it's as useful as some people think, and usually just fluff. Since I'm replacing in I'll post my first thoughts on everyone after the hockey game. Somnus though feels pretty obvtown to me, and I'm not sure why anybody is voting him right now (If my internal count is right, I could be off with the recent stuff between getting the replacement set up and actually getting in the thread)

[Corwinoid]

and now Corwin from Amber has stolen my new avatar... is it allowed at all? maybe some rule about stealing avatars?

I'm not amused. And nothing about this says 'town'.

Shit ass scummy thing to do honestly, if it's even allowed.

[Corwinoid]

@mod, can we vote for finding a new replacement for bosco or maybe return bosco prodding with no time limit?

This is actually a rule violation. Don't do this.

[Corwinoid]

I'm through about the first 12 pages of my re-read, but I have a sleeping disorder where I won't get much sleep for a few nights/weeks and then crash pretty hard and oversleep, and right now I'm recovering from the oversleeping thing so I need to get some rest. I've said all I have to say for right now, and I'll hit this with fresh eyes in a few hours.

[Corwinoid]

and we haven't even heard from one player.

I'm trying, I swear, it's not easy especially with one particular player just shit posting and quoting the exact things other people have said muddying things up and making it harder to wade through, follow context, and put it together with isos minus the crap.

So far I have solid TRs on Somnus and you, despite the low post count I've appreciated the quality. I don't know how to read Bella, but she doesn't seem scummy. I'm unsure on Rad, WD, and Spartan. Slight scum vibe from BBT. I just want Vasex gone; I think he's been completely anti-town and disruptive and it's really hard to think we're just not better off without him--I might be tunneling, but it's genuinely making it harder to read everyone else.

[Corwinoid]

Somnus, did you have a PR read on him?

[Corwinoid]

Corwin, where are you at right now?

It's Somnus/cheap today. Cheap took it back to -1 and went looking for buttons to push to get the hammer, it's a hell of a lot scummier than you hammering.

Somnus has been tunneling you all game for reasons that still aren't entirely clear to me, and I want him to make them clear.

I guess it doesn't matter if he PR read the slot or not, but if he did I want to know why he didn't speak up, and if he didn't I want to know why he thinks your vote is anywhere near as bad as Cheap coming in at the last minute to push it.

Somnus burying his vote and disappearing is the scum you aren’t seeing

Shit if I was scum while a town!vasex's was doing all this, I'd be lurking and just waiting this out until town mislims.

I think this is

exactly

what happened.

[Corwinoid]

Actions speak louder than feelings.

[Corwinoid]

Wanna eliminate Somnus with me?

Yes. I already said him or Cheap.

VOTE: Somnus

[Corwinoid]

Day 1 reads are based on feelings and intuition. Day 2 reads are based on what happened.

[Corwinoid]

It's less scummy than Somnus and Cheap.

[Corwinoid]

I need to try and get some sleep, I only meant to check in for a minute since I got up to smoke, but I have RL stuff to do this morning so I'll be out for a few hours (hopefully).

[Corwinoid]

UNVOTE:

Possible VLA, sick

[Corwinoid]

Corwind's read on sonmus flipped overnight but it does look like it's in reaction to the elim (rad said what scum would do), although they are suddenly worried about sonmus' bbt tunnel

@cor, when did the tunnel start to worry you? 731 was pretty late in the day and he was your biggest tr. Can you talk me through this a bit?

I just shouldn't post when I'm tired and starting to feel bad, I had Somnus and Spartan mixed up in my head last night.

[Corwinoid]

? Can you clarify with some more words?

I'm not sure what else you want me to say, I've been sleeping like trash the last three days and I spent this morning trying to make my insides my outsides, and I mixed up two players trying to post through it. Spartan starting jumping on BBT at like 268 with a pretty omgus you put me at e-1 thing and then literally sat on that all day long. I just went with what was in my head instead of actually looking at my notes, and got Somnus and Spartan mixed up, so 797-813 just don't make sense.

[Corwinoid]

I think corwin's a reasonable vote here

VOTE: Corwinoid

Comes in and places a vote on vasex based on a lie that no one actually cared about anymore. It's the second vote on vasex who doesn't really have any real elim steam, so pretty safe from suspicion and puts a town member just a little closer to a mislim. A good position to take as a scum wanting to elim a town.

In 731 he has a "solid TR on Somnus and you" - you being Cheap. He appreciates the quality of Cheap's posts.

Note here that Cheap's vote on vasex is 727, 1 hour BEFORE Corwin's 731 where he reads Cheap as Town.

In 797, after the flip, he's now got a Scum read on Cheap based on Cheap's vote, which as I noted, happened an hour before his previous Town read.

Let's also note that in 731 Corwin says "I just want Vasex gone; I think he's been completely anti-town and disruptive and it's really hard to think we're just not better off without him--I might be tunneling, but it's genuinely making it harder to read everyone else." which is essentially the same reasoning as Cheap gave in his 727 vote for Vasex.

I genuinely think you guys let vasex off way too easily early on for that, it didn't read like a joke to me at all, and his follow up didn't make it feel like a joke either and essentially amounts to a 'lol defense', and then terrible anti-town flooding the entire day. My position in it is irrelevant because I'd have been slot #1 if Bella hadn't already been sitting on him. I'm looking either off the wagon or deeper on it with the way the actual elim went. The difference here is that I didn't push E-1 with what feels to me like an ATE to get someone to hammer. I had two days to think about that and finish reading the 800 fricken posts in day 1 after that, I think my read is allowed to change and look at behavior.

I care a lot more about what people do and the results than the way I feel about them D1.

I need to catch up on the rest of what's happened in the last 36 hours, I'll be posting more shortly. Re: the shit start to today, I really want to apologize to everyone -- I don't lie about OOG stuff, I think it's unethical to bring non-game things into the game to affect it. Between the sleeping like crap, getting sick yesterday, and then my best friend getting into town earlier than expected for this weekend, I haven't been as active or clear as I'd normally hope to right now and I'm hoping I can fix that today and tomorrow.

[Corwinoid]

Comes in and places a vote on vasex based on a lie that no one actually cared about anymore

If nobody cared about it, why did you jump on the wagon after I made that argument?

[Corwinoid]

Same question to Cheap and BBT. If I was so off on my read and how I felt about that, why didn't you two shut me down instead of eliminating him?

[Corwinoid]

I really do feel bad I got hit with so much shit all at once right after too. Replacing in is hard, and that didn't help... I got my strongest overall reaction out there and then it just kind of ran off and it seems like everyone just wanted him gone for shitting things up instead of talking me off the lie/joke (that I *still* don't read as a joke... maybe he's just that unfunny).

[Corwinoid]

> why didn't you see it as an ATE putting us at E-1 and forcing a hammer at first?

I was seeing red and annoyed by his antics so I wasn't looking. It needed some space to start thinking clearly again. Having night to cool down and come look at it again helped, but I should have waited to say anything at all until I'd slept when D2 opened instead of looking like a complete moron with the name/slot confusion.

[Corwinoid]

Spoiler:

I typed most of this this morning before I left when we were floating around post 878. Holding off/not finishing it ended up work out nicely anyway with what I've seen since then. I know it's long, but I'm going to give the thread a chance to breathe for a while after this and I'll be back sometime later tomorrow assuming we're not already in Night 2 by then.

Well this will be fun...Post 864 may have just blown the game wide open, and I think post 871 may have just unintentionally solved the game. Here are my updated reads and likely final reads of the game:

Town: Corwin, Rad, Cheap, Whiskey
Scum: BlueBlood, Bella

The timeline for Day 2 so far:

-Bella states not to rush Day 2 after BlueBlood and I cross-vote.
-Rad posts some VCA and mentions that Spartan had named BBT/Bella as a very possible scum team (I had forgotten this until Rad's 864.)
-Rewind. Spartan is the night-kill Night 1 after parking his vote on BlueBlood and naming BlueBlood/Bella as a scum-team.
-BlueBlood comes in shortly after Rad's VCA post and deposits three god-awful steamers, throwing shit in every direction and hoping it sticks somewhere.
-10 minutes later, Bella, WHO HAS BEEN ON EVERY E-1 WAGON SO FAR ALONG WITH BLUEBLOOD (including on both of the players who have flipped green so far), and barely 24 hours into Day 2 (after saying not to rush the vote), drops in and leaves a naked vote on Corwin to put him to E-1. Despite "not quite willing to give him a town-read yet", has literally followed his every step and been on every wagon with him.

To Corwin, Rad, Whiskey, and Cheap, regardless of what you think of me as a person/whether or not you think I'm scum, flipping BlueBlood today essentially sorts 3 of the 7 remaining players. It sorts BlueBlood (obviously), myself (unless you somehow think Somnus/BlueBlood has been scum-theater), and Corwin (he'd essentially become lock-town). If Vasex, Spartan, and myself were all wrong about BlueBlood and he has played the most baffling, borderline game-throwing town game ever, so be it. Let me remind you that Vasex was quick-hammered by BlueBlood, Bella parked her vote on Vasex and left it there, not seeming even remotely bothered by the possibility of a quick-hammer (but now wants everyone to take their time on Day 2 despite having just created a very early E-1) and Spartan is now dead. All of this happened after there were no takers by town to hammer Spartan.

If any of the 4 of you still think I'm scum, that's fine.

You can even flip me today

. I offer this as someone who currently has zero votes on them. I don't mind. If we go with me today, once I flip green, flip BlueBlood and Bella back to back days. If I'm wrong, so be it. It's not a game of perfect information. And considering we lost the most OP town power role that exists in Newbie Games due to a quick-hammer on Day 1,

this is about as good of a chance of winning this game as you could ever dream of after that Day 1 debacle.

But to those of you who are still going along with BlueBlood and Bella, I suggest you look at where it has gotten you so far, and if you continue to follow them, you will be the next lemming going over the cliff (fun fact: lemmings don't actually do this, but I digress). They've already set up Corwin and Cheap as the next two/final Day eliminations after it became clear I wasn't going to be a super easy mis-lim today.

Take a quick browse through Spartan's ISO, particularly posts 273, 279, 282, 287 (this is a good one), 289 (another really good one), 294, 296 (this is what ended up happening!), 300, 302, 306, etc.

Look as far back through the game as you're willing to under the pretenses of the exact scum-team being BlueBlood and Bella, and tell me you somehow disagree. Hell, if you don't have it in you to go all the way back to the beginning, at least go to late Day 1 and read from there, and ESPECIALLY read what has transpired so far on Day 2 under the pretenses of the aforementioned team.

Literally THE ENTIRE game makes sense when you look at it through those lenses.

Again, after that, tell me with a straight face that you somehow disagree.

If you still have your doubts about me, you should be on-board with flipping me today and then flipping them back to back, no questions asked, after I flip green

.


I humbly offer to Corwin, Rad, Whiskey, and Cheap one of the following two options. I obviously can't make you do either, but it would be greatly appreciated and would significantly advance your win-con if you take me up on one of the following:

1.) Flip me today. Again, I don't mind. I'll be green. But after you do,

FOLLOW THIS SOLVE

. Once I flip green, you'll see that I'm not partnered with anyone, have no reason to personally protect Corwin/Cheapside, and that my motivations are clean. The only risk here is that somehow, Bella is town and helped mafia in every single vote and play in this entire game. I don't think that's the case, but it's still technically a risk.

2.) Flip BlueBlood. This sorts his slot, mine, and Corwin, and makes my solve very very likely. If after a red flip here, Bella mysteriously flips town on Day 3 (I don't think she will), it still wouldn't lose the game. Whoever is still alive would have presumably a 3P eLo on Day 4. So even if this somehow is not the exact solve, you have a free ticket to Day 4 eLo unless you want to tell me that there's zero scum in BlueBlood and Bella. After finishing this post and reading back, at the very least from Day 2 and looking at the wagons that have transpired so far,

NO ONE should think that that's a reality.

I believe Rad was "town-binned" to help contribute to mafia winning in eLo via his mis-vote. Same can potentially be said for Whiskey who I'm pretty sure, prior to this post, was going to be killed Night 2, and still might. The same pivot to town-reading Spartan occurred the moment it became clear that town wasn't interested in hammering Spartan (check out 852, Whiskey. This was essentially you marked for dead). How do you go from wanting to hammer someone 7 posts and MAYBE a day into replacing in, to "Spartan is probably town, Bella"? This dude ain't town. And if he is, we were screwed from the start.

As a reminder, as of this post, I have zero votes on me and am in no danger of elimination. I offered myself up as an elimination on Day 1 to blow open the game and didn't receive any takers. With my flip, the scum team's narrative would have been in absolute shambles going into Day 2. Considering how much more information we have now, they probably should have taken me up on my offer. And I'm now offering it again if needed.

If you somehow think I'm doing this to try and save a hypothetical Scum!Somnus partner of Corwin/Cheap despite making the same offer on Day 1, again, I am offering myself as the Day 2 elimination to the 4 of you.

As a further reminder, Corwin started Day 2 saying that the vote today should be between myself and Cheap. He then followed it up later on in the day and mentioned that he had gotten myself and Spartan mixed up when he could have stayed on me. If he had, Bella inevitably would have put me at E-1 or waited for one of the other three of you to put me at E-1 and she would have hammered at some point after. Once it became clear that Corwin was town-reading me and had me mixed up with Spartan and that Cheap was town-reading me, the plan to try and eliminate Somnus on Day 2 quickly vanished. BlueBlood quickly abandoned his vote on me, pivoted to Corwin, and even tried to bargain with me to join him. They've since been putting out feelers for thoughts on Cheapside as well. He and Bella have been lining up Cheapside and Corwin to be the last two Day Eliminations since.

To Bella, if I'm wrong (and even if I'm right), it's nothing personal. But if I am wrong, this is just kind of how it goes when you're on every E-1 wagon, including the two that have both flipped green so far, have very quickly created another one nearly at the start of Day 2, and have been on the same page as BlueBlood every step of the way (despite allegedly not quite being ready to town-read him). Scum often throw their partner right in the middle of their reads and then gradually town-read them. Hell, both of you currently have the EXACT scum-pool of Somnus, Cheapside, and Corwin. What are the odds considering you don't quite town-read him? In order for you to be town in this game, it would now require everyone to assume that you were essentially an honorary mafia member.

There's not a rational conversation I could have with BlueBlood here, so no offense to him personally outside of the confines of the game, but I'm not interested in his thoughts on this post and will not be engaging with his response to this. My bullshit filter is in full effect.

So that leaves 4 other people. For this to happen, 3 of the 4 of you would need to be on-board. Again, I can't dictate or force anyone to do anything. I'm 1 player in the game out of the remaining 7. But since I know that at an absolute bare minimum, 3 of the 4 of you are town (and I'm now pretty sure all 4 of you are), this should be a no-brainer.

So again, to Corwin, Rad, Whiskey, and Cheap: Do we have a deal?

P.S: As someone not even in danger of elimination here, I offer you this: Don't you think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, if I'm scum in this game, I easily join the pack and push Vasex through as "a policy vote", get away completely free of blame afterwards (ESPECIALLY based on our early interactions together), and then have my pick of Corwin or Cheap to just go along with on Day 2? If I'm scum, with the way this game has gone, we'd be in Night 2 right now and I could have hammered Corwin or jumped on the suspicions of Cheap. And that JUST MAYBE, I kill BlueBlood Night 1 if he's town?

Instead, out of the three players who were hard town-reading me on Day 1, Scum!Somnus decided it would be a brilliant idea to allow my partner to push through a Day 1 wagon on one of them and then night-kill another (after not pushing Spartan through on Day 1 anyway). Doesn't seem very effective for me to be this damn picky as scum. I also have zero reason as scum to now be presenting Bella as the solve, considering she has no votes on her, and isn't really hard scum-read by anyone else still alive in the game (as far as I know, although it looks like since I started this post this morning, Rad has at the very least referenced his scum-read of Bella from Day 1). There's WIFOM and then there's just "fucking stupid." For me to be scum here, it would definitely fall under "fucking stupid."

P.S.S: As a reminder, a doctor claim by anyone at E-1 is now meaningless. If we're in A1, there will be a counter-claim. In order for the doctor to still have any more value than a vanilla townie (since the cop is already dead), they would have to make TWO saves on night kills to gain an extra mis-lim for town. That is extremely unlikely to happen at this point, and if this solve is correct, we might not even have two more night phases. If we're in C1, all scum would have to do at E-1 is claim doctor (in C1, the only town PR is a cop), and if they're believed, could coast to the end-game under a fake "clear". Only the death of a hypothetical mafia roleblocker at this point would prove that there's a doctor in the game. Otherwise, we're in C1 where it's just a cop. I don't want to open up a discussion on power roles further than that, but I advise you to keep this in mind.

Thank-you for coming to my TedTalk. I'm going to let the thread breathe for a while.

I can buy this. Bella has been my hardest read all game and BBT/Bella makes sense.

Their interactions this game have been... odd

VOTE: spartan



Producing content but I don't get town pings

VOTE: Spartan

Will provide more soon. Glad to see the game is picking up, from a brief skim it looks like everybody is contributing now. Makes the game a lot easier

They did this kind of block voting on me later also, a few more posts apart.

I don't think Bella has tried to pocket me at all. In fact, she has outright questioned a few things that I've done in this game. This might seem arrogant but I don't think scum!Bella would want to draw my attention to her at all. She would pocket me and just kill me.

Can I be town now, Bella?

Probably, but I've got my eye on you. I also like that your ego hasn't changed: here's some wifom, I wouldn't have nk'ed you as scum ;p

This feels incredibly manufactured.

Rad, talk to me about Cheap being the 'easy vote'[/quote]

@rad, explain the cheap thoughts to me? Coz I had a fairly irrational but strong tr on them at the end of the day but then I looked their votes, and then their reads post.

Looking at the reasoning on the votes on vasex is probably somewhat worth it.

@bbt stop thinking my thoughts.

Scum wouldn't be this blatant, right? They wouldn't both pile on at the same time, and re use the literal same words.



Right?

Spoiler:

Omg that's a blast from the past. You ok, mate?

I tell people I haven't been scum In years, I swear the last time was with bbt.

It would be an ironic truth if it was this game, no?

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

Rad, whiskey, are you in?

[Corwinoid]

I'm out for a few hours and guys give me wo and a half more pages to catch up on. This is definitely different than I remember.

Whiskey, your personal read on Bella is town, and I've said I can't read her, but has that slot been under any real pressure this game?

[Corwinoid]

@Rad, why Bella right now? If it's BBT/Bella it makes more sense to go BBT today. If it's Somnus/X and this is a gambit, it still makes more sense to go BBT today.

Make your thoughts clear here fren.

[Corwinoid]

I'm out for a few hours and guys give me wo and a half more pages to catch up on. This is definitely different than I remember.

Whiskey, your personal read on Bella is town, and I've said I can't read her, but has that slot been under any real pressure this game?

Is/was Town? Before the end of D1 I had them up there with Rad as my TRs. Depends on what you mean by pressure. The only person I remember voting them D1 was Rad so not much by way of wagon

If BBT flips red that clears a lot of people and pretty much only leaves Bella who should be turbo elimmed the next Day. That alone is good reason for a BBT elim

That's exactly what I was thinking, but I'm really curious why Rad's back on Bella now also.

[Corwinoid]

scum!Rad is not what I was getting at, I just want to know why he's thinking Bella

now

instead of BBT.

[Corwinoid]

Is there anyone you didn't point a finger at just now? Like, seriously....

If you're that unsure about everyone why the fuck aren't you pressuring *any of them* except tunneling me today?

I've said multiple times I don't know how to read Bella, you want to pressure that slot and look at it? I think Rad's hedging and offloading his responsibility looks like trash. You want to pressure that?

Oh, hey, Cheap, btw you look super scummy and your entire use this game is to miselim later, of course I'm town but I'm not going to vote the scummiest looking slot from Yesterday.

Come on dude, we have almost *four days* left today and the best you can do is park a vote on me the entire time because, what? I'm the "common denominator" for having real life disrupt me and making an honest (hilariously bad, but honest) mistake? THIS is your best play this game? For the love of god, between you actually doing fuck all and Bella magically disappearing when it matters, tell me I didn't get a couple of SEs in my first game back who just don't give a damn.

UNVOTE:

Somnus' argument is absolutely shit, yeah, but at least it drove the game somewhere and we've gotten to this point. I'm not in a rush, we have more than half the day left to come back to you if you're still this awful later. Hell, you're so transparent right now we could just wait to elim until tomorrow and actually find your better-half instead of guessing. If you want to try to redeem yourself then fucking

do something

instead of half-assing it. What was it Cheap said? Put your money where your mouth is.

[Corwinoid]

Hey corwin, I'm around (Ish) if you have any thoughts to throw at me?

Other than BBT being a good player you'd hate to lose, is there *any* reason to think he's Town right now?

Why the unvote?

Does it really matter if Rad's willing to follow Whiskey blindly? It's a token, if you want to try to do something meaningful instead of muddying shit up to stick to your meta.

[Corwinoid]

I was feeling pretty sheepish after the Somnus/Spartan thing, but I'm starting to feel pretty damn confrontational right now. Stop trying to make me do your dirty work, you want to start the wagon start the fucking wagon and argue it. And for the love of god don't make it a hair brained town gambit. If Somnus IS town that's one of the dumbest plays I can think of--it's better to be alive than dead.

[Corwinoid]

You didn't answer my question either; want to vote Somnus?

He's not my first alternate, no.

I have given plenty of arguments for Scum!Somnus, did you read them?

Before or after my eyes glazed over Vasex' day 1 spam? (See kids, this is why flood-posting isn't useful). Give me the Cliff's notes.

[Corwinoid]

941

A reminder of how poor Corwin's vote on me was. Also a reminder that he used Somnus' case, which was very bad and now a case that he dislikes (?), to justify his vote on me.

God you are infuriating and making me regret not just letting you die today. I never liked Somnus' gambit, offering yourself as a lamb to slaughter from town is horrible--I've done it, I learned the hard way. But I definitely found it useful for generating some damn momentum into looking at you, now I want to look at other people I don't think got looked at hard enough D1; yes I'm aware of the irony.

It's 6am here, I haven't slept yet, I'll come back to this after I get at least a nap.

P-edit: I'll look at it when I get up

[Corwinoid]

I'll consider it.

[Corwinoid]

My head hit the pillow and I realized something: the lynchpin of my townlocking Somnus today is that the town gambit is so obviously noob town there's just no way it wasn't obvtown. But this is the guy with "red role fatigue", and enough scum experience now that yeah, I could absolutely see him doing something this audacious thinking second or third round newbies would have that exact read of it if they've seen/done it before, or not caring if he died to get out of the game.

I still haven't read your notes, but now I just want to see where this goes.

VOTE: Somnus

[Corwinoid]

I'm awake but I slept a little longer than I intended. I've read through the posts since I laid down but I still haven't gotten to BBTs argument against Somnus. We have time, we do not need to elim right now... I have a lot I want to say and not much time to say it right now, I need to start grilling for my guests this evening. I'll probably be 3-4 hours.

[Corwinoid]

Yeah, everyone is scum tunneling you + ??? and nobody is seriously looking at the slots they just want to let slide instead of actually solving the game because they're so hung up on where their reads are right now. Are you getting it now? I want more substance and less fluff out of the people that we're letting slide. I got what I wanted out of the Somnus wagon, who's up next: whiskey, rad, cheap? I'll choose.

It bothers me that WD townlocked Rad so hard he wouldn't even consider this slot out of all of the other people on the Vasex wagon. Doubled by the fact that I actually think it's pretty unlikely there were two scum on that wagon, and it would have been incredibly easy for either one or both to just sit out and watch it happen with how quick it was.

VOTE: Rad Let's see where

this

goes.

[Corwinoid]

What I'm saying is that everyone is so tunneled on one particular solution they're not looking at anything else and I want more genuine pressure on more people to get more real information than what I've seen so far. Almost nobody is using their vote to get information instead of blindly offing the people they think should be offed. Nobody has really given a good reason you're town either other than having you town locked for... what? You were dead center on the Vasex wagon also, and skated on sheeping my anti-town argument but everyone is hyper focused on BBT/Cheap for theater or BBT/Bella for being too friendly this entire game to even seriously look twice at you.

[Corwinoid]

By last post, I mean my somnus bbt post

I don't find it convincing.

Right now I just want to reiterate something: I care about what people

do

, not how I feel about them. So far I think half the people in this game have been lacking in the doing department.

[Corwinoid]

@Rad, you were bait, but I can't leave that up while I'm asleep and can't check in on the thread periodically. Sorry fren, I wish I could have explained it sooner.
UNVOTE:

Does anybody really think both scum were on the Vasex wagon instead of at least one sitting by watching us do it? We keep cycling between the same players, and it's really frustrating that all of them, except Somnus, were on the wagon instead of hunting off of it.

[Corwinoid]

Corwin is still a huge pile of null to me, which is worrying.

Right back at you Bella.

If you think Cheap/Somnus might be the team then let's go. I really don't like Somnus' "I want out of this game anyway" after his gambit -- that reads exactly like a player who's fed up with playing scum and genuinely wants out.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Somnus
Putting my money where my mouth is, I suppose.

[Corwinoid]

Explain the bait thing?

Ugh, 1093 is tonally genuine.

I wanted to see if one of certain peoples jumped it quickly, especially off their normal hours. You know what, fuck it, I was looking at you and Somnus. I think there's enough on Somnus it's safe anyway, but I wanted to know if he'd go any-other-lynch-except-me after the gambit fell through.

[Corwinoid]

Elim* Sorry.

[Corwinoid]

Rad is my top town read, yes. There are certain features of his play that are simply not scum. An example, but not the only one, is that handing his vote over to someone like he did earlier is just objectively too bad to be scum in any reality I belong in. There are a couple of others I don't want to comment on right now, but he's practically turned himself into an IC as far as I'm concerned. If I'm duped by this and in some fantasy there's a Rad/* team then we're just losing right now.

[Corwinoid]

I do need to get some sleep, I should have been down an hour ago. Bella, it sucks that our hours don't seem to line up, which might be a big part of why we're not reading each other well.

[Corwinoid]

For all of his finger pointing, his complete lack of any real action and unwillingness to make a vote or be on a potential wagon, whiskey is really getting on my nerves. At first I was just really fucking annoyed by it, but going back through his iso and looking at context the only votes he's made all game were a Jackal (BBT) RVS, which he quickly walked back at 291 from E-1, then he trained BBT onto Somnus, which had no real risk. Day 2 he voted BBT to E-1 but warned everyone off hammering, meaning there was no real intent or pressure on it, and then unvoted when we're looking at eliminating one of his top scum reads. He comes back now, points fingers at almost the entire game and then walks off again asking the guy who wants to blindly follow him what he should do

without making another vote

.

Towns biggest tool outside of PRs is voting, but instead of doing that he's been sowing little seeds of everyone is scum and tucking his vote away in safe places or hiding from being involved in anything the

entire game

.

VOTE: Whiskey

[Corwinoid]

Oh HAY corwin, I see you posted. Here's my read on you. I'll look at your latest post next.

Spoiler:

Corwin:

---------- DAY 1

Bad read on vasex. I thought it was bad when somnus made it and bad when corwin made it. Uninteresting lie is clearly not a scum tell and I didn't think it was before the flip. Lean scum, like I did with Somnus. Could be town who reads differently than me.

Somnus obvtown read

Argues with vasex about the bs vasex did with the avatar. He's on the right side but... [NULL]

vasex FLIP

---------- DAY 2

Pushes somnus a little, questioning whether he had a PR read on vasex. Does not follow up. [NULL]

Somnus/Cheap scum read. Wants to know why somnus is tunneling BBT (does he follow up?). Bad read on cheap because he had the same read. Pushes more suspicion on somnus based on stuff me and whiskey said. reasonable, [LEAN TOWN]

Votes somnus, claims bbt is less scummy than somnus and cheap, [NULL]

VLA here, probably true, [NULL]

Spoiler:

Responds to my case on him. I still don't like his response to the strange read change on cheap but upon rereading this, I get the legit feeling that he's overwhelmed by a combo of VLA and having to catch up. previously scum, let's say [NULL]

Questioning me bbt and cheap about why we jumped on the vasex wagon if no one cared about his vasex lie case. Previously I read this scum, maybe it's town!corwin overwhelmed, [NULL]

907 is the open explanation that reasonably explains his previous posts

917 suggests he was seeing red. I can see cheap seeing red. I saw red. Why would he? He was brand new to the game. Hard to empathize here. [SCUM]

Approves of somnus's gambit reads on bbt/bella. Explores this a bit. Tries to get more out of my on Cheap. Votes BBT and requests me and whiskey to join. [TOWN]

Clarifies null read on bella, but claims bella hasn't been under pressure. That's true, only I gave her any pressure, no one else seemed to care. [NULL]

Pushes for me to give a read on why Bella over BBT. [TOWN]

1015 Argues with BBT. Emotional. Thinks I should be pressured due to offloading my responsibility and is angry about it. Claims somnus gambit is shit. Pushes BBT to do more. [NULL, MAYBE TOWN]

1024 points out that BBT is sticking to his meta, that I also noticed, where he plays the same way in both scum and town. Good observation. does corwin recognize that if he's scum? maybe but not likely. [TOWN]

Confirms somnus isn't a top scum read.

1041 switches somnus read to scum based on realizing that maybe somnus isn't obvtown, but rather, his whole act was a scum play. This was actually one of the posts that helped trigger my thoughts on somnus. [TOWN]

Awful push on me incoming. I don't see what it could possibly accomplish. Maybe he had an idea that something interesting would happen. It clearly wasn't a push on me but some sort of trap. [NULL, MAYBE TOWN]

Places vote on somnus again. Upon revisiting his ISO, this is a natural move. [TOWN]

Nevermind corwin isn't a scum read.

If that was my "maybe sick VLA", which is the only time I think I've said it might happen this game despite how much I've had going on... I don't lie about outside interference. Goes strongly against what I think is ethical in any role -- and is one of the reasons I do think it was a big deal with Vasex.

[Corwinoid]

Rad, I need to run to a convenience store, so I'll be out for 15-20. If you have any questions or want me to go over any of the points you had on my read I'll be happy to go over them when I get back, since I probably won't be going to bed tonight.

[Corwinoid]

For all of his finger pointing, his complete lack of any real action and unwillingness to make a vote or be on a potential wagon, whiskey is really getting on my nerves. At first I was just really fucking annoyed by it, but going back through his iso and looking at context the only votes he's made all game were a Jackal (BBT) RVS, which he quickly walked back at 291 from E-1, then he trained BBT onto Somnus, which had no real risk. Day 2 he voted BBT to E-1 but warned everyone off hammering, meaning there was no real intent or pressure on it, and then unvoted when we're looking at eliminating one of his top scum reads. He comes back now, points fingers at almost the entire game and then walks off again asking the guy who wants to blindly follow him what he should do

without making another vote

.

Towns biggest tool outside of PRs is voting, but instead of doing that he's been sowing little seeds of everyone is scum and tucking his vote away in safe places or hiding from being involved in anything the

entire game

.

VOTE: Whiskey

What is your read on Cheapside exactly?

I keep having to tell myself EINAI. I don't think both scum were on the D1 wagon, since I'm leaning a little more town!Bella after actually interacting with her last night and I have Rad townlocked, POE leaves BBT/Cheap. BBTs play this game has been scumtown, but I don't think he cares and he'd play exactly the same way town or scum to protect his scum meta. Cheap just hasn't given us a whole lot, and I do think the AtE/proxy-hammer is incredibly dirty. The post-flip answer is reasonable, but it echoes one of my top points anyway. His RVS was Somnus, and I could absolutely see a Somnus/Cheap team. His other early votes looked like they were actually intending to do work, and his BBT E-1 looks like it had serious intent behind it. He could be hard bussing there, I could see BBT/Cheap, but somehow I just don't come away thinking that's M/M.

He was at the bottom of my scumpile to start the day, but since the Somnus debacle took center stage I keep wavering between him being 2nd/3rd most likely scum.

[Corwinoid]

He has fewer posts than the mods. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... rt_order=d

Admittedly, he's packed them, but that can go either way as putting in effort to make few high quality posts, or making few posts that can be easily tailored. I keep wanting to read the latter, and constantly reminding myself that's not actually a read.

Also... Huh, you're right, I didn't vote him, I thought I had to start the day before Rad voted for me. I actually had to go check that and was surprised by it. I was definitely intending to push him, but BBT got me on the Somnus track instead of the Cheap track when I FOSed those two to start the day.

VOTE: Cheap

[Corwinoid]

Something in 1159 bothers me, did I just read this wrong and I'm making something out of nothing like I did with Vivax?

[Corwinoid]

Scum!somnus continuing to be checked out fits the narrative I'm reading though. Ez pass to not have to interact beyond a big post here and there.

I was excited that you set us up to interact a lot at night and that just hasn't been a thing.

Is this a massive scum slip or did I miss some context? Rad's vote is only safe if he's 100% sure it won't be quick hammered.

[Corwinoid]

You're willing to risk the game that it's not Somnus/Bella?

P-edit: I feel like throwing a game away 'because we deserved to lose' is a little questionable.

[Corwinoid]

I've been chewing on this for the last 20 minutes instead of working, and Rad, if you've completely fooled me this game then gg.

VOTE: BBT

[Corwinoid]

I can't get to the game right now but fuck me, unvote.

UNVOTE: I'll humor you, for now.

[Corwinoid]

Whiskey would have auto-elimmed Bella if scum!BBT, but here you're suggesting you'd work with her to think through this. Which is it mate, do you trust the reads of dead people or are you latching on to the most convenient living town to distance yourself from having to make input or take responsibility?

[Corwinoid]

Bella, if scum!BBT, why is town!Bella still alive? This has been troubling me.

[Corwinoid]

So we have 3 wifom defenses right now between me, Bella, and somnus. How about you Corwin. What does scum!Corwin do in d3 when he sees my vote on bbt and how is it different than the supposed town!corwin play that happened?

Wait to hammer and not provide exclusions? At least, I'd hope... I've never drawn scum *sad trombone noises*

[Corwinoid]

Holy shit I've thought you were an SE this whole time

I'll take that as a compliment, not as a mistake.

[Corwinoid]

Somnus - Rad no
Somnus - Corwin no

How do you get these? I've got you scrubbed on everyone except BBT, but Somnus could be paired with anyone else still, no?

[Corwinoid]

Rad, I'm about to go to bed, and I'd like more time to look at something before we elim. I've been on board with BBT today since before you started doing POE, and I still am, but I need some time also.

[Corwinoid]

I think that's a bad idea. BBT's been hard bussing Somnus all game. It's the only slot he hasn't switched between buddying/town reading/scum reading back and forth. He's just been hard pushing scum Somnus all game long. Your entire read against me is basically that I'm new player so I'm shit, and making bad mistakes, not that oh I'm new player that's

never been scum

including this game, so I wouldn't even be looking at them as mistakes. For some reason Bella thinks I'm not trying to solve, but I still don't understand 1240... maybe I'm just having and idiot moment and not getting it. I also don't understand why she'd push clears that aren't actual clears and then not explain where she got them from.

[Corwinoid]

Rad, this is insane, there's no way this is a town play right? I didn't realize how big of a mistake my vote on BBT was, but I knew your first vote was risky. I was expecting Bella to hammer because everyone's reading BBT as scum, but that didn't happen. Now you're asking the one scum pairing she could possibly be in to put their votes on a third party so "I can clear my name," in the same breath you admit that would have fooled town!Bella into a misvote if I'm town. What in the actual hell are you doing right now?

I'm watching the hockey game, so this is only getting my attention during breaks, but this just seems crazy to me.

[Corwinoid]

YOU ARE STILL ASKING THE CLOSEST PERSON TO CONFIRMED SCUM IN THE GAME TO PUT THEIR VOTE ON SOMEONE AND HAVE EVERYONE JUST *TRUST* THAT YOU AREN'T THEIR PARTNER.

If you want your vote on me do it, but there's no way in hell this comes from town. I understand exactly how powerful the opportunity of having two votes on someone in this situation is.

The only way you could have known that BBT vote was safe is if one or both of you were scum

and

you knew that. I think you were thinking the same thing I was, that Bella would come in, make a mistake and hammer because BBT looks so thoroughly scummy at this point. Now that fell through and you're like "Oh, Corwin making mistakes is obviously because he's newb scum and I get to pretend I thought he was SE to reread that slot! Hey, just trust me guys, I'm town I'm town! Put a couple of votes on someone,

trust me

."

Opportunistic as fuck to push this while you're thinking Bella's willing to just blindly make that mistake.

[Corwinoid]

Good God, I'm on my phone right now, but your logic is completely broken if it hinges on people doing something completely not logic based, which is absolutely trusting that you're not duping everyone so you can hammer a slot.

Yeah, Bella, BBT, just set that aside and vote, k? This is entirely what 1358 depends on, and what youre asking them to ignore now, and it's either straight up dumb or scum play.

I hate doing stuff on my phone, ill go over the rest of this when I'm back at my house.

[Corwinoid]

Don't trust me. Read my play.Read my play.

Rad is my top town read, yes. There are certain features of his play that are simply not scum. An example, but not the only one, is that handing his vote over to someone like he did earlier is just objectively too bad to be scum in any reality I belong in.

There are a couple of others I don't want to comment on right now

, but he's practically turned himself into an IC as far as I'm concerned. If I'm duped by this and in some fantasy there's a Rad/* team then we're just losing right now.

I'll go ahead and comment on them now. The main part of me thinking Rad is/was town is the glib self-disinterest he had made me think it was returning/rusty town and was straight up just too unaware to be scum faking it. That's a complete 180 from how he's playing today, which entirely negates my read on him, and bugs the hell out of me. The all too sheepish "Whiskey, you take responsibility for my vote" and then "Bella, what do we do?!" act doesn't match the rest of his behavior right now.

You say "This game is probability based" Externally 4/7 of the remaining team combos have BBT in them. If "you" are town, 3/4 of them have BBT in them. From my perspective half of them have YOU in them. I said, exactly "the closest person to confirmed scum" and you want to twist that around to be me saying he's confirmed, and then telling

me

to look at the probabilities that you're conveniently ignoring.

> I want town!Corwin to sit back and really consider what's going on.

Yeah, the same shit I was doing when Bella got it stuck in her head I'm probably scum, right? While I was re-reading the thread, and BBT/Somnus. "Corwin, just sit back, relax, it'll hurt less."

Also, I'm not arguing with the conclusion of your logic. It's the incorrect premise that we should assume you

and

Somnus are town so that Bella/BBT can conveniently take me to -1 and it's so safe because you are so incredibly obvtown it's worth risking the entire game on. There is no way in hell that's a town move. A town player looking at probability and logic would never do something like this.

It's not the conclusion of the argument that's wrong, it's that the entire argument is wrong because it's built on the obviously false premise that everyone can just assume you're town because you rode your mostly-harmless town act into ELo and nobody should question it now.

[Corwinoid]

Rad basically has to be scum now, right? There's no way town misreps the probabilities/team-combinations here intentionally and pushes a possible mislim. He doesn't have to worry about budging on his Somnus read if he knows 100% Somnus is town. And he knows the early vote / bbt gambit is safe because he's in the scum team, regardless of what bbt's actual alignment is; if town!bbt it's a win, if scum!bbt he gets towncred for a quick lynch and a low-info day.

[Corwinoid]

Occams razor... okay.

What requires the fewest assumptions? Scum!rad knows his early vote is safe and hard busses bbt in elo, or town!rad makes a hero gamble to save town?

What requires the fewest assumptions? Scum!rad wants at least one town vote on Corwin before committing to the lim, OR rad is town, Bella is town, somnus is town, everyone has faith in this, and rad can safely be made kingmaker?

what has the fewest assumptions? Rad tells Corwin to sit back and think about probabilities thinking he hasn't, and intentionally misrepresents, or that rad has mistakenly thought he's done more than he has and just made an incredible mistake in what the probabilities actually are to other town players?

Who has helped provide more information? Was it town!rad gambling, scum!rad safe voting, or Corwin stumbling into it so Bella got cleared?

1384 is literally a LAMIST post.

1386 is more manipulation and a terrible argument, again that we should just trust you're town, and if you are I'm only in 50% of your possible scum teams. Literally a coin flip that you're winning or losing.

Occams razor says: This isn't town trying to win the game.

[Corwinoid]

You're entire counter argument to everything I said is to ignore all of the actual points I made and evidence, and discard it like I'm seeking approval from others, when that's what you've been doing this entire game? Pot calling the kettle black mate.

Also, fuck off with the smug bullshit, I was driving to work.

[Corwinoid]

I've had enough of this. Bella, somnus; rad might weasle his way out, but bbt can't win in a 3 way against any pair of us, and I'm sure it's bbt/rad at this point.

VOTE: rad

I'll be in meetings most of the day, so this is up to you guys from here on out.

[Corwinoid]

You’re not at e-1 though? How are Bella and I individually cleared as full town?

You're not, he's assuming me and BBT are active to coordinate when you post. Obviously I am atm, no clue about BBT. If you were in either of these scum teams you could have coordinated a hammer, in theory. Doesn't clear you from a rad/somnus team though.

This is more of him floating shit that isn't quite right but seems like it's pretty close.

[Corwinoid]

Read 1360-1400 again. Rad is scum, my vote's not moving. BBT can't win the 3-way with any pairing of us now.

[Corwinoid]

BBT is an auto elim tomorrow, without any possible wfiomery.

If my iso doesn't read town enough and I get flipped here, I guess that's on me. I'm not responding to bbt or corwin anymore but any questions Bella or somnus have for me, please ask away.

Is another LAMIST post.

Rad basically has to be scum now, right? There's no way town misreps the probabilities/team-combinations here intentionally and pushes a possible mislim. He doesn't have to worry about budging on his Somnus read if he knows 100% Somnus is town. And he knows the early vote / bbt gambit is safe because he's in the scum team, regardless of what bbt's actual alignment is; if town!bbt it's a win, if scum!bbt he gets towncred for a quick lynch and a low-info day.

I told you I care a lot more about what people do than what they say. The things Rad is doing today are *not* Town things. He's peddling misinformation, arguments from false premises, and making plays that can only be safe if he knows the scum team ahead of time.

[Corwinoid]

And he buried his head in the sand when called on them instead of addressing any of those points.

[Corwinoid]

Actually is it possible for you to be town here and wrong?

Only if the scum team is you and Rad.

[Corwinoid]

No, and after we had BBT at such a high probability from POE I thought it became less and less likely with the way Rad was acting.

[Corwinoid]

BBT/Rad.

Bella's cleared, you are the least likely scum, and you should be cleared to you. If we elim BBT today me/rad can NK either of you and make the 3-way a complete shit show. But any of the pairings with you, or with Bella win against BBT in the 3-way.

[Corwinoid]

For scum!rad to work here, it means that even though I understood what the best scum play was (hammer a somnus vote on bbt)

Who is the second vote in your fantasy?

> Or I'm with bbt and we are 2 wild and crazy guys [...]

Honestly, that seems exactly like BBT.

[Corwinoid]

I don't think so, she's right that she could have hammered after I put him -1 and then taken it to 3Lo. I'm not sure what pair she would have picked, but there's a decent shot at winning that.

[Corwinoid]

No, I think it's too risky with everyone posting. It was risky earlier too and I shouldn't have done it.

[Corwinoid]

Yeah, we could have jumped on you.

[Corwinoid]

Rad is voting BBT. Me + you could jump on town!BBT to win.

[Corwinoid]

I need to get some of that sweet precious sleep I didn't get last night as well.

[Corwinoid]

The only real "possible" teams remaining are my/bbt, rad/bbt, and me/rad. There are no more hammer tests, and no more safe vote testing. The path to victory is knowing bbt is the common denominator and just eliminating him tomorrow regardless of who he kills tonight.

Me/Somnus -> BBT
Me/Bella -> BBT
Bella/Somnus -> BBT.

Yes, you need to decide between me and Rad here. I'm asking you to seriously look at the player who's done a complete 180 from sheeping town and asking for guidance to driving a narrative, using false information, being misleading, and intentionally doing risky things that would either lose immediately or end in a low information day. Do take your time, look at the play today, look what's happened today -- I'm not the scummy one here.

[Corwinoid]

No worries Rad. I'm not going to contradict the mod or the site rule, but from my perspective it's not as "offensive" as it would have been yesterday. That's about as much as I can say on that front though.

Going through the parts of yesterday that I missed, I had a lot of stuff come up I had to deal with that I don't want to get into. Sorry I fell off though.

P-edit: Signs do not point to scum!Corwin. It's unfortunate I couldn't stay active for the remainder of the day yesterday, but this is a bunch of bollocks. Bella, I need a bit to finish working so I can meaningfully address this, getting a few comments in isn't the same as making up for the lost time.

[Corwinoid]

Stop being a condescending prick.

You've done it to me, you've done it to Somnus. It's offensive. Please never play with me again if you're going to act like this towards other players.

[Corwinoid]

Yeah, I just woke up though, give me an hour or so. Hope you're feeling better.

[Corwinoid]

It wasn't. PT is fine with me also. Some not flattering things got said about some people at a few points.

Three things before I do anything else... it wasn't losing this game that drove me off, it was frustration with someone else entirely that just crushed my will to be present or put up a fight here. I owe Rad and Bella an apology for not having the energy to try harder on this, and then everyone wanting their pound of flesh today, and I just didn't have it. Sorry guys. You too BBT.

The second,

and most important

, is that I owe Vasex an apology. The way I came at you D1 was really similar to how I had ICs and SEs come at me in my game before this, and it drove me off the site for 5-6 years. It left a really dirty taste in my mouth. I hope you stick around and play more, and I hope this doesn't completely taint your opinion of the site.

Third... Rad: I was serious about the attitude problems and being condescending. That was coming from the player me, not scum me. Talking down to people in newbie games like "Mafia is hard" or telling Somnus "Maybe Mafia isn't the game for you" is really not okay, especially in Newbie games. I wasn't going to come at my defense with this as an angle, I think it's a serious issue. These games are to get people use to the forums and to welcome them into the site, not do things that might drive them off (see my second point). Please don't attack the person behind the game.

[Corwinoid]

If people want play reviews I'd be happy to do that, also.

BBT, I had a blast playing with you. I'm sorry for the other things, it was a cluster fuck. I'd like to talk about that later.

Bella, it was fun. I was looking forward to playing with you. For some reason I feel like you were in one of my previous games, but I never checked... enjoyed the entire time though.

[Corwinoid]

You'll see that NKs had absolutely nothing to do with their reads either - was unfortunate how that got flipped onto me.

I prob should have self hammered early D3 once Corwin had voted for me. Bella I joined this game to play with you mainly, was genuinely gutted when I got a red role PM

That's the critical point I screwed up. N2 kill was probably wrong too. **It happens, I learned a lot from this game.

[Corwinoid]

if i need to decide right now with a gun to my head, i would elim these three slots: CHEAPSIDE, bbt, corwin

You played an absolutely crushing day 1, with a couple of mistakes. Will give more feedback if you want, but I actually thought you were the most dangerous player D1 and we got lucky lynching you.

[Corwinoid]

Gonna assume somnus' PT is just him shouting at me.

I think you've maybe got a point though about town sided: I don't remember it being quite like this when I first played newbies, or even when I first ic-ed, but it might be down to the PRS too - we used to have a fairly standard cop/doc/doctor/tracker(I think), and scum couldn't have day talk!!it may be the assumption that newbies aren't going to play the PRS very well, but in my recent newbie we played a perfect game down partly to our newbie pr, and this game we played without one. However, I also think that there's a lot of 'tone' in this game that sometimes newbies find hard to play with too.

Some of it is players though: I think corwin had different choices open to him.

I had my hands tied I think. I screwed up voting BBT D3, and I didn't think I'd be able to talk Somnus. Rad made technical mistakes D3 that I was going to use to attack him today and I just ran out of time and ability to try. Honestly we probably should have killed you sooner, but BBT hated the idea. Keeping Rad alive was risky too since he was so town early on.

[Corwinoid]

I hope you stick around man, your early reads were frighteningly accurate.

[Corwinoid]

Btw what are private threads and how do I use them next time? Just a way to track your thoughts throughout the game so you can share them later? I was using notepad for that

I use excel. I really need to write a script to harvest votes and tag things with notes though.

I can't comment on the other thing further right now, but I'll either PM you or reply here when I can.

Day 3 the core technical error was once it was reduced to you, me, bbt, it couldn't safely be reduced further. If I'd had the bandwidth to stay active through that I would have hit you on it harder. Otherwise, yeah, you played a great endgame.

[Corwinoid]

Echoing Cheapside. Thanks HEM. Hope the real life stuff you had going on D2 works out for the best for you.

[Corwinoid]

Never seen a PT 1/4 of the length of the thread

I literally laughed out loud when BBT claimed he had 0 input on running the scum game... too bad that played into Rad's notions of me as newbscum (also rather funny, given the PT) instead of painting Somnus.