Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You | Endgame

[Somnus]

What's THIS?

A green role PM in

MY

inbox?

UNACCEPTABLE

I will be contacting site administrators, as well as the list mod to rectify this egregious error.

Furthermore, I will be contacting my attorney to pursue legal damages for the pain and suffering that this unfamiliar color has caused me.

Also...how do I town?

[Somnus]

Cuz I'm finally town. Duh.

[Somnus]

i will be later, not today. too lazy and also busy

here is mafia
VOTE: ItalianoVD

Alright. We got half the team figured out then. This is a good start. We can probably go ahead and mis-lim me Day 1 then.

[Somnus]

I usually get scumread for this but eh who cares.

1. How long have you played the game of mafia, not just on this site, but ever?
2. Do you like playing the role of town or mafia better?
3. Are you an active poster or a lurker?
4. Do you find it hard to lie or it something you have no issues with?

'Sup?

1. January.
2. Literally never been town before until today.
3. Active unless I have shit going on.
4. As it pertains to the game of mafia? None whatsoever.

[Somnus]

For whatever it’s worth, Bella, as someone who just spent the last 5 weeks memeing in the spec thread of 2094, I’ve been advocating for back to back luke-Bella elims since Day 2.

[Somnus]

Sounds like everyone who has entered the thread so far has played before to varying degrees of experience.

[Somnus]

But you played in two games on this account last year?

[Somnus]

You sure? Your profile tells a very different story.

[Somnus]

My entire playing history can be found here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Somnus

Personally, I have no reason to lie about my playing experience.

[Somnus]

So another user with a similar posting style to yours played on the same account in Newbie 2055, Large 232, and posted over 1800 times over the last 16 months, but you just started playing a week ago? That's what we're going with, correct? I just want to be sure.

[Somnus]

VOTE: Vasex

[Somnus]

Ngl: easiest vote of my short town-life.

[Somnus]

I might be able to give you a detailed answer at some point if I want to torture myself with going through Days 1 and 2 of that game again, but it was mostly just a vibe. Obviously, I wasn't correct. For whatever it's worth, just hours before the end, I was still saying I'd push for a luke elim first over you.

And then when you accidentally thought you all were in eLo a 2nd time, I figured it was likely you legit town-slipped and that you didn't try to pull that as a trick twice, so I started to sway towards the back to back preferred lims being luke-catboi (in that order). And then of course it didn't matter.

[Somnus]

ItalianoVD

: 1. Couple of years but not many games. 2. Mafia. 3. Middling - high frequency unproductive discussion does irritate me. 4. No issues.
I did ask you a question. (11)

-------------------------------------

Bellaphant:

U

mm, very few things? Maybe a counter claim where I can't get a good read?

I've been plat mafia since my join date, only ever on this site.
Unlike Somnus I can't get a red role pm if I try. I'd hate to b scum right now because I literally haven't been in years.
I'm around. Probably a middle poster. I'm UK though so tend to be here when others aren't.
It really depends!

Was the top line in reply to me? If so, are you stating that in the case of a D1 claim, counterclaim, you'd no-eliminate if you weren't confident in reads? If so, that seems strange, as there'd be a 1/2 chance of hitting mafia unless something unusual was going on. Have I misunderstood?

(Btw, we can edit down people's quotes here, right? Didn't see anything about it in the rules.)


-------------------------------------

Vasex is pretty obviously town, sorry to hear their account was hacked. Going to keep my vote where it is for now, it's doing good work.

Is the part about believing Vasex sarcasm? I legit can't tell if you actually believed that.

Your vote actually isn't doing any work. An RVS vote on page 1 is meaningless. I feel like putting my vote on someone who clearly lied about their playing history on page 1 has been more beneficial.

[Somnus]

@xheap, basically the answer is 'i wouldn't' , but in that case yes, if I was massively unsure.i wouldn't want to lose the pr. It would also sort itself out over night, basically. Tbf day 1 is all about Info gathering and should move fairly quickly.

I don't feel like this conversation about vasex is helpful/I don't want it to be the topic of convo for the day.

Why is a conversation about a player who was caught lying about something on page 1 not helpful? It should literally be THE topic at this point, since it’s the only thing of meaningful substance that has occurred. Take a 30 second look through his ISOs of the two games he’s played on this account and tell me he was “hacked”.

We have something to discuss far more relevant than you’re virtually ever going to get this early in a game, and it’s being dismissed so far. Why is that?

[Somnus]

Hello! I haven't played in like... 8 years. First time on this forum. Old games were on teamliquid's site. I'll be most active late night EST. Looking forward to catching up on the thread later tonight!

Looking forward to hopefully picking your brain in real-time a few of those nights, since that’s when I tend to be around a lot as well.

[Somnus]

Hi. For context, a lot of the regulars in the newbie queue over the last 5 months or whatever know me as the guy who literally had never been town before.

Thanks for coming to my brief TedTalk.

[Somnus]

Not to sidetrack your catchup too much here, but I made a thread discussing Red Role Fatigue a couple days ago, and my experiences, as well as the fact that every time I saw both he and Cephrir in a game, they were mafia, ensured me to discuss the topic.

[Somnus]

*Inspired, not ensured.

This is what I get for phone-posting.

[Somnus]

@xheap, basically the answer is 'i wouldn't' , but in that case yes, if I was massively unsure.i wouldn't want to lose the pr. It would also sort itself out over night, basically. Tbf day 1 is all about Info gathering and should move fairly quickly.

I don't feel like this conversation about vasex is helpful/I don't want it to be the topic of convo for the day.

Why is a conversation about a player who was caught lying about something on page 1 not helpful? It should literally be THE topic at this point, since it’s the only thing of meaningful substance that has occurred. Take a 30 second look through his ISOs of the two games he’s played on this account and tell me he was “hacked”.

We have something to discuss far more relevant than you’re virtually ever going to get this early in a game, and it’s being dismissed so far. Why is that?

His lie isn't a scum tell. Any townie who's not taking the game too seriously and wants to mess around could easily make that blunder. But lying is an easy thing to point out as a good reason to eliminate. That IMO is more of a scum tell. After they flip town you just maintain that the lie was a big deal and the townie messed up by so obviously lying. FoS @Somnus

This is terrible reasoning and goes against the motivations of any good town.

[Somnus]

Somnus can be my first TL - low effort posts to make if they randed scum again but willing to call that intro genuine on its face.

Around the time I stopped playing I was red probably 10 times out of 12-13 games in a row. It was brutal and by the end I sort of hated playing Mafia lol (not just the alignment)

I mentioned this in the thread I referenced earlier, but I’ve actually really enjoyed playing as mafia in my other games, but the burnout was definitely real.

[Somnus]

If that’s how you feel: I’ll make you and everyone else a deal once everyone has entered the game.

We vote me out Day 1. After I flip green, we (the still living town)at least drop the ridiculous idea that lying is “too scummy to be scum” and start at least considering that the worst case scenario of flipping a player who is clearly going to be negative town utility and has no problem lying as town...is far from a harmful mislim if said-player does turn up town.

[Somnus]

If that’s how you feel: I’ll make you and everyone else a deal once everyone has entered the game.

We vote me out Day 1. After I flip green, we (the still living town)at least drop the ridiculous idea that lying is “too scummy to be scum” and start at least considering that the worst case scenario of flipping a player who is clearly going to be negative town utility and has no problem lying as town...is far from a harmful mislim if said-player does turn up town.

To add to this, after we wagon me off for catching someone lying on page 1, look to the people who immediately white-knighted Vasex. In the event he eventually flips town, the people who quickly changed the subject and are clinging to “too scummy to be scum” are likely to have 1 scum in them that was looking for fake town-Cred down the line. So let’s hopefully get those last two players into the game, wagon me off, and reference these two posts as my legacy, please. Thanks.

[Somnus]

I am playing the game. I think we have a very fundamentally different approach. This is not me quitting on page 3. That's never going to happen, or on any page, as either alignment, for that matter.

I had "dropped" it, but two players kept circling back to the topic, even when I had gone hours without mentioning it or posting at all.

We're less than 24 hours in, so content is understandably minimal. Almost all of the content in this game so far has been generated by or about. Give me something to work with then if you're unwilling to discuss a player caught lying on page 1. What are your thoughts on the rest of the player-list so far based on the minimal content we have?

[Somnus]

All its done is makw me town read rad And cheap. Which is at least a positive.

And I think you've played this game long enough to know that creating content is exactly what I was going for right off the bat. I'm not an idiot. I've read every newbie game this year and probably about an additional 15 of them since NewD3 was introduced. I'm fully aware that the Day 1 "hyper-poster" is painting a target on their back and is often the eventual Day 1 mis-lim. I couldn't be less concerned with that at the moment.

[Somnus]

It's not a bad take and I'm not memeing. And my offer still stands for later on in Day 1 so everyone else can analyze the wagon to see who went for the absolute lowest-hanging-fruit in bad faith during Day 2. Could be extremely beneficial.

Literally the only event of any relevance that ihasoccurred so far in this game, and your stance is, "Let's not discuss it."

[Somnus]

No,.sorry, I feel that vasex's content could be quite memey, based on this start.

Ok, if you want to discuss it more: are they lying, or joking? What benefit does either have for them as scum? Why would you, as scum, lie about something so obviously provable?

I can't see your thoughts here. You said your response was to generate content, but are now also still arguing that it isnt, at least in part, a bad take. I don't understand

My bad then. I thought you were calling my approach here memey. You'll see Meme!Somnus in the spectator thread of 2094 if you can stomach all 10 pages

Do I think they were lying? Absolutely. Do I think that equals lock-scum? Absolutely not. But I'm an old-school "newbie" in that I think there's very few pro-town reasons to lie about like...anything. And considering the extremely minimal reasons that people vote for people on Day 1, even when we're not including RVS, there's no world where someone can convince me that it's a bad early vote or that it's somehow worth less than an RVS vote.

[Somnus]

Just thinking out-loud here, Bella, but wanna know something funny? I think you’re going to get a better understanding of my mindset and approach from the spec thread of 2094 than the games I’ve been in that you’re presumably at least somewhat familiar with.

[Somnus]

I'll step away for about 24 hours or so. Got some things to do today, but it'll also give a chance for others to join the game and hopefully generate some non-Somnus/Vasex content. Be back tomorrow.

[Somnus]

Literally spent the 45 necessary seconds to catchup on the minimal activity since I was last on and was going to say very slight town-lean on Italiano based on a ~~VIBE~~ and now that's almost completely irrelevant. Wonderful.

[Somnus]

I also apparently can't read him for shit based on the 1 whole game of his that I've read in its entirety (newbie 2093) where I didn't buy his tracker claim for a second, and he did turn out to be the tracker.

[Somnus]

Welcome. I'm not going to tell you who to vote for though. No sheeping allowed.

[Somnus]

I mean...eventually? There's been 5 posts and we have 8 days.

[Somnus]

5 pages ^

[Somnus]

Mostly just the Somnus/Vasex interaction from the first couple pages and then people either townreading me for it or pearl-clutching over it and scumleaning me for it. Other than that, not particularly.

[Somnus]

It's 5 pages though. I think that should be easy enough to read in its entirety to catch up.

[Somnus]

I'd rather get your opinions on the game first, personally. I'm not going to be able to get much of a read on you other than vibes if you just want to start a wagon without catching up, you know?

[Somnus]

Booooo.

[Somnus]

What is your opinion of your scum-game, Somnus?

Generally cautious Day 1 because losing 1 of the 2 maf in a 9'er on Day 1 is an absolute disaster. Usually open up more as the game progresses. I dunno. Exciting but stressful.

[Somnus]

I think I've done reasonably well in my 3 scum games. 2 wins and a loss. All 3 results felt deserved, good or bad.

[Somnus]

I don't have a town game prior to the start of this game. I rolled mafia in all 3 of my completed games. It's why I decided to give it one more go in the Newbie Queue.

[Somnus]

I played 1 game off-site back in January and rolled town, but it was barely a game of mafia. It was mostly people shit-posting and getting drunk and then speed-wagoning people they didn't like. No claims, just quick pileup and eliminate someone.

[Somnus]

Also, let me rephrase an earlier question.

How do you expect your town game to differ from your scum game?

Hard to say less than 48 hours in. Less concerned with my potential death, I guess? I don't really know how to answer that.

[Somnus]

Spartan117 replaces Jackal711.

Please clap harder

!

[Somnus]

VOTE: Somnus

I respect your scum game.

Thanks, I guess.

I'd rather you think my scum-game is shit and town-read me, but this is a close 2nd, I suppose

[Somnus]

Alright. I’m caught up and have some things I want to machine-gun respond to, but won’t be able to until later on today. I’ve got another degenerate nerd hobby that is going to take most of my focus this weekend due to a special event that I’m leading. Back later on today when I can pop in.

[Somnus]

Alright. I don't want an ugly, massive wallpost, so you're going to have to allow me to spam 5 or 6 posts here while I have a bit of time.

chepside, could you please stop voting somnus? i don't think anybody of you two is a scum

I dunno. This is starting to feel borderline TMI at this point. It's not this post merely in isolation itself that I have the issue with.

[Somnus]

What is your opinion of your scum-game, Somnus?

Generally cautious Day 1 because losing 1 of the 2 maf in a 9'er on Day 1 is an absolute disaster. Usually open up more as the game progresses. I dunno. Exciting but stressful.

I will say that even though I have a slight scum read on you, your sort of reckless activity was the thing making you just suspicious to me instead of a straight out vote. So it's nice to hear you explain what I thought I could be seeing. That said, another explanation is you're tired of being mafia and in order to avoid the stress, you're just going to yolo this game.

Coming out of your last game as scum, before you got your role for this game, how were you planning on approaching this game if you drew scum again? I remember pulling mafia a few games in a row back in the day and remember this thought weighing heavily on my mind when deciding if i wanted to even join another game or give it a break for a while.

I wouldn't have signed up again if I were terrified of rolling scum again. I don't sign up for games to half-ass it depending on which alignment I get. I took 5 weeks off after my last game because of rolling nothing but scum. I've talked about it in the mafia private thread from Newbie 2092, post-game in Newbie 2092, and in a thread I created a couple days before this game started called "Red Roll Fatigue".

[Somnus]

@rad, I said most of what I wanted to say in response to bbt about you ; I like your longer, content posts but your 'wake up town' and trying to extend rqs feels really pointless and 'look at me, I'm so town' (lamist).

This often (but not always) is a scum tell. Sometimes it's just a personality thing. In the one off-site game I mentioned that was barely mafia, it was a theme game and we all had characters. The mod had made it very clear that character names matter. I was the only one pushing for character reveal on day 1 (not role reveal, just character) because it would have all but made the game auto for town (setups there don't exactly have reviews for balance). One player freaked out and said it was against the rules to reveal and refused (it wasn't), and followed it up with "JESUS TOWN, WAKE UP!". Not surprisingly, that player was scum.

[Somnus]

Aw man, the above is a really bad post.

Did you ever say what specifically you hated about 171? I may have missed it. I just saw you asking for someone with more "town-cred" to explain why. I don't know that I'm that person.

[Somnus]

So something I like to do is take my heavy town reads and really scrutinize them.

So I looked at Bella. Why do I think Bella is town?

#6 - random vote
#16 - info about availability
#31 - nothing
#35 - talking about another game
#37 - talking about another game
#40 - gives some theory, points out the obvious that convo about vasex isn't helpful
#67 - agrees with me about vasex
#71 - points out the obvious that somnus martyring himself is a bad idea
#72 - says he town reads me and cheap
#76 - points out more obvious bad town moves. Sets himself up to elim vasex at some point when he gets tired of the memes
#78 - pressures somnus and...
#82 - unvotes somnus because somnus magically convinced him
#87 - is here in time to ask mq for input
#102 - suggests day 1 is a crapshoot and we shouldn't care about it. Questions Italiano's content but doesn't follow up on it.
#103 - random vote on mq bosco
#122 - new guy is in, time to talk about stuff outside the game
#139 - summarizes somnus's play, throws shade on me
#141 - clarifies mq bosco vote
#159 - throws more shade on me
#199 - weak question on BlueBloodedToffee (which was easily responded to by BlueBloodedToffee), throws shade on him
#201 - Keeps vasex open to elim, talks more about outside this game
#213 - talks more about another game

This EXACT style of note-taking every little thing is what I did in my first game on-site as scum and it got me hardcore town-read. Never had a vote on me the entire game. Pull up my ISO from Newbie 2087 and take a brief look, particularly Days 1 and 2. Something to consider.

[Somnus]

Can't be bothered to properly quote from the spoiler tag, but from Cheapside:

My first few posts were made to keep Somnus generating original content, if that's any help.

This isn't the only time that you've tried to take credit for me being an active presence in the game based on a page 1 RVS vote. By the looks of it, you had a grand total of 3 posts in this game when I was last on yesterday morning.

Straight-up: I borderline forgot you were in this game. Yeah, my attention is primarily occupied elsewhere this weekend, but that's the truth. Someone mentioned in a post yesterday (I think it was Vasex?) the name "Cheap". My thought process:

1.) "Who's that?"
2.) "Oh, is that a nickname for Bella based on her avatar?"
3.) "Oh, right, there is a player with that name in this game"

Why was Vasex politely asking you to unvote me enough to get you to do so?

[Somnus]

Bbt, we clearly aren't getting each other. I think my progression from 40's 'i don't want to deal with ten pages about what is a joke about russian hackers' through to confusion over whether Somnus even thought what they thought or were just generating content, to them actually engaging with me properly (and reaching out with info about how I could read them as they'd just specces my game) is pretty obvious? There was also a pretty marked tone shift from Somnus, from 'i have a shit take and I'll defend it to the end and also scum are using it against me', to something that looked really pro town in his later explanation. I thought you'd remember that I much prefer to talk to people one on one - I guess I liked that I felt he actually wanted me to understand, rather than just convince me. (which would've felt more scummy). Also, I was disappointed in the middle: not with town reads but by the fact we were still. Talking. About. Russian. Hackers.

I agree he wasn't under massive pressure, but I don't think that his freak out was scummy. You say he's an accomplished scum player but I'm not sure what an accomplished scum player gets out of what was essentially a tantrum?

There was no tantrum, and coming from someone who hasn't even really been scum-reading you in this game, it's starting to feel like you're intentionally misinterpreting what happened. For something you and several other players have been adamant about dropping, you sure seem to be bringing it up time and time again and using every opportunity to take shots at me over a philosophical difference of opinion. I've been respectful to you, even when I've disagreed. You're being extremely petty and childish, and it's not productive. Get off the high-horse about "Somnus interacted with me properly after that, so I'll let it slide."

[Somnus]

Quick temporary reads:

Town: Spartan, BlueBlooded
Null: Whiskey, Bella, Bosco, Vasex
Scum: Rad, Cheapside


Lord help me that the only two people I'm town-leaning at the moment replaced in roughly 24 hours ago. Rad/Cheapside not likely scum-theater, so likely not partnered, but I'm obviously not trying to nail down an exact team right now.

I'm not voting for someone who has 3 posts and has given us nothing to work with. If this pattern continues on Day 2, I'll revisit. A potential green flip there gives no one anything to work with so far.

I'll pop in over the next two days when I can, but I'll have more time again starting Monday.

UNVOTE:

[Somnus]

Newbie 2096 | Nathan For You

Day 1

Player List

1. mq.bosco
   
   
2. Vasex
   
   
3. Cheapside
   
   
4. Somnus
   
   
5. Rad
   
   
6. whiskey delta
   
   
7. Jackal711 (SE)
   
8. ItalianoVD (SE)
   
   
9. Bellaphant (SE)

(bold indicates confirmation, asterisks indicate prods)

Spoiler: Flips

No flips yet.

Events:
Day 1 Start

A fantastic idea.

The only flaw is waiting to use your vote.

Look at this post
I think it was made for mafia PT
He suggests his partner to vote Jackal711
And look how BBT was stressed after posting that in our thread for all

Umm, I don't know how that happened. I really need to stop phone posting and do this on my laptop.

and then he has interesting conversation with Rad, though it can be just my paranoia.
p.s. dont forget that i thought they are both scums earlier, when they were voting each other with weird behaviour all over there, and weird reasons to find each other townie after that. it was right before this post

This is the post of the game if true, and there wouldn't even be a close 2nd place. However, replace "He suggests his partner to vote Jackal711" with "He suggests his partner to vote Bella" OR literally anyone in this hypothetical. The point being to just use your vote.

Even if this theory ends up being completely incorrect, this is a good find. I'm kind of going over the details of what happened right before this, but especially right after.

[Somnus]

Dat timing tho.

VOTE: Rad

[Somnus]

Childish, regardless of alignment or what you think my alignment is.

[Somnus]

I'm ready to park my vote here for Day 1 on policy alone. Mafia games get heated, but this kind of behavior is just gross.

[Somnus]

I'm sorry that you're that rattled. My vote will remain here the rest of Day 1. Sober up and sleep well.

[Somnus]

You were already my top scum read, and I made that pretty clear when I was on yesterday. This is where my vote will remain due to how you're handling it. Have a good night.

[Somnus]

Alright. Way too much has happened since I was on yesterday for me to comment on individually.

I'm not in favor of the Vasex wagon at this point. Once you look past some of the early stuff and the avatar copying and all (which I did initially laugh at, but it is kind of annoying), the guy has probably put more effort into solving than anyone in this game. Calling everyone who votes for him is silly though.

[Somnus]

Calling everyone scum who votes for him ^

[Somnus]

I'd rather you answer first why literally any other wagon, you were ready to sheep within seconds without any explanation, and then the second that I vote for him, you swooped in, tried to derail, and have since tried to pivot to literally any other wagon and desperately end Day 1.

[Somnus]

Lots of little things. Potential greeting tell, the "suspicions" he had on you when you first entered the game look fake and borderline partnered, especially with how quickly that fell apart (205 looks absurd, as does 209), the exact note-taking style i used in my first scum game, the drunken hissy fit upon getting voted, etc. etc. etc.

[Somnus]

I literally did, and not surprisingly, you didn't like the answers.

[Somnus]

I know you were there. You swooped in and tried to derail within minutes of it.

[Somnus]

We don't have to continue this. We're both fully aware that there's no explanation I could give to you that is going to satisfy you. We don't need to do theater here.

[Somnus]

Anyone seen BlueBlooded defend literally any other "wagon" like this?

[Somnus]

There's still time to pivot for like a 5th time and try and get the Somnus wagon going again. I know all of them have collapsed so far, but this time it might work out. I believe in you.

[Somnus]

Yes, I clearly have come in with a narrative and have desperately been trying to have you eliminated all of Day 1.

[Somnus]

To everyone else, flip one of me, BlueBlood, or Rad today. Obviously, my preference isn't myself, but it would at least break this game the fuck open and make the solve easier.

VOTE: BlueBlood

[Somnus]

You haven't answered anything I have written except to try and defend yourself.

Good stuff.

I'm under zero pressure and last I checked, there's 1 vote on me? And I'd respond the same way at E-5 or E-1. Bella was right. Pressure doesn't mean anything to me in a forum mafia game.

[Somnus]

Kinda bored with your obsession of Rad. Sorry. Got stuff to do and your obsession with it is putting me to sleep. Good luck on the next pivot!

[Somnus]

G'night

VOTE: BlueBlood

[Somnus]

VOTE: Somnus

We can do this today.

Of course. Had to get Vasxex and Spartan out of the way first. I knew what you were doing the last time I interacted with you, and I called it. I got bored listening to bullshit, had things to do, and called the pivot which promptly took place almost immediately. You still had to leave that doubt about the Somnus slot open for Day 2 though. You didn't have the votes with Vassex or Spartan still alive. Pretty basic stuff for any townie with a pulse to understand at this point.

Go back and look at Vassex and Spartan's strongest town read, folks. Go back and look at who they were scum-reading. Go back and look at the fact that BlueBlooded went from trying to eliminate Spartan after 7 posts and a few hours after replacing in to pretending to town-read him.

As much as most of you may despise the guy, go back and read all of Vassex's posts both pre and post-hammer. He was right about nearly everything he said. Sometimes the truth hurts.

scums: cheap, corwin, bbt, rad

yeah, it feels quite solid. add here bella and i can say that there are 2 scums in this list. everybody else are town.
because scum!cheap wouldn't vote me before his partner, this is too huge risk for him to vote his 100% towniee, too suspicious
so logics says : his partner was already voting me

What are the odds Scum!Cheapside asked his scum partner Scum!BBT to remove his vote so that he can join the wagon less suspiciously than if he had hammered out of nowhere. Making it look better with BBT who is aleady on the wagon hammering?

so my final list for monday (in priority from the most scum and from the most town)

scums: CHEAPSIDE, bbt, corwin, rad, bella
towns: SOMNUS, spartan, wd

[Somnus]

Cheap's vote on Vasex wasn't great and it almost looked like a policy elim. The same could be said for Corwin's vote, too.

How great is it going to be if this is BlueBlood openly protecting his partner and then throwing in a random townie to protect as well to try and make it look not suspicious?

[Somnus]

Somnus, did you have a PR read on him?

No. Apparently I'm quite good at PR hunting as mafia (I have either killed or correctly rolecopped a PR in all 3 of my scum games Night 1) but I wasn't concerned with trying to find a PR as town. All I was interested in was reading people as town or mafia.

[Somnus]

VCA is going to be difficult in general because of lack of VCs and sheer amount of wagons.

Bella, talk to me about Somnus

"Don't think about it, guys. Ignore the evidence in front of you. Trust me. It doesn't matter. Anyway, look over here!"

[Somnus]

Corwin, where are you at right now?

It's Somnus/cheap today. Cheap took it back to -1 and went looking for buttons to push to get the hammer, it's a hell of a lot scummier than you hammering.

Somnus has been tunneling you all game for reasons that still aren't entirely clear to me, and I want him to make them clear.

I guess it doesn't matter if he PR read the slot or not, but if he did I want to know why he didn't speak up, and if he didn't I want to know why he thinks your vote is anywhere near as bad as Cheap coming in at the last minute to push it.

Somnus burying his vote and disappearing is the scum you aren’t seeing

Shit if I was scum while a town!vasex's was doing all this, I'd be lurking and just waiting this out until town mislims.

I think this is

exactly

what happened.

I made it abundantly clear both on Friday and Saturday that I had another gaming event going on all throughout the weekend that would be occupying most of my time, and at best, I would only be able to briefly pop in. Several people have since ignored that or pretended to forget that I mentioned that on at least two occasions (we went 4-0, for whatever it's worth).

I'd be curious to hear how you went from "Somnus is obvious town and I don't know why anyone is voting for them" to THIS after seeing the player who lock-towned me get quick-hammered presumably by 2 scum and 3 village idiots, and then seeing the other player who had me as one of, if not their top town-read, night-killed. Great scum-play by Somnus, huh? Much brain. And just when I thought you at least had a little bit of a grasp of what was going on in this game.

[Somnus]

You were scum reading me Day One, no?

Also, Somnus was pushing Rad for a long time without any basis for the read. Before switching onto me, without any basis for his read.

Wanna eliminate Somnus with me?

You literally spent the entire day trying to immediately push through any wagon except Rad, cut off town information when we could have used up to 10 days to gather information and make better reads, and then quick-hammered a player who by Monday was so painfully town it wasn't even funny...and that player flipped PR. And then claimed that more wagons would be harmful for town. If Vassex was a policy vote, you're that times 10. I can't even hold it against you assuming you're scum. I don't blame you for taking advantage of how laughably clueless this town is.

In the unlikely event that you're town in this game, I can say without exageration that it is the single worst individual townie performance I have seen from a player since signing up for this site...and I read a LOT of games. I refuse to believe that that's the case.

It's less scummy than Somnus and Cheap.

And yet almost nothing has happened since your vote for Vasex and claiming I was obvious town except that you saw the two people who town-read me the hardest and scum-read BlueBlood the hardest both die

[Somnus]

I could elim Corwin today.

How you feel about that, Somnus?

Not interested. My vote stays on you. I made it clear on Day 1 that my own personal survival wasn't my top priority in this game and I meant it. To anyone who thought I was bluffing, better luck next time. You have no idea how badly I wanted to be killed Night 1. But you will.

I'm done interacting with bullshit. If you're mafia, congrats on somehow fooling most of the town when the obvious is right in front of them. No sarcasm here. Legit props and it would make zero sense for me to hold it against you. If you're town, you lost this game on Day 1.

Flip this open-wolf or gamethrowing town slot or get me out of this game. Not an act. Not a bluff. I'll gladly welcome either.

[Somnus]

@bbt, I'll respond later. This game is no fun.

Couldn't agree more.

[Somnus]

So I got a chance to look through Spartan's ISO. Here's my understanding:

Steady scum read on BBT, over time leaned scum on Bella
Started with scum read on me, but I feel like that disappeared over time, opposite of Bella
Believed potential of a BBT + Bella scum team (hinted at it and then spelled it out)
Ended with a belief of a potential Cheap + mq/Corwin, or Cheap + BBT scum team.
Probably had town reads on Vasex, Somnus, and Whiskey, leaned scum on everyone else

Let's look at the wagon on him:

E-1 wagon on Spartan contained (in order according to Spartan, not going to double check this):
- Whiskey (from left over RVS before Spartan replaced)
- Cheap
- Bella
- BBT (E-1, not announced)
(Compared to Vasex wagon, there's an overlap of Cheap, Bella, and BBT. Corwin hadn't yet replaced mq during Spartan wagon)

@Somnus @Whiskey what's your take aways on the Spartan wagon vs the Vasex wagon. Anything interesting to conclude here given the people on 2 town wagons?

This is good stuff, Rad. I’ll take a closer look at it much later today (Friday) and let you know my thoughts.

[Somnus]

Oh I'll be posting later today when I'm back on my PC. I've got something good for you all and Rad is to thank for that. Post 864 got the ball rolling for me and is going to end up being one of the most important posts of the game.

This is a good unvote, by the way.

[Somnus]

Bad unvote.

Need pressure.

What are we trying to pressure out of him, exactly?

I fully expect him to respond to my 857 with or without an E-1 sitting on him. I don't think a town!Corwin avoids responding here.

The guy has already claimed VLA, so he could lurk the next 24 hours and actually be a legit sick town.

Tech question for whoever can answer - does town get notified if they were roleblocked by a mafia roleblocker, even if they were not a PR that could be blocked (i.e. a VT)

?

A VT would not be notified. A town investigative would be given a "no result" PM or whatever by the moderator.

[Somnus]

I typed most of this this morning before I left when we were floating around post 878. Holding off/not finishing it ended up work out nicely anyway with what I've seen since then. I know it's long, but I'm going to give the thread a chance to breathe for a while after this and I'll be back sometime later tomorrow assuming we're not already in Night 2 by then.

Well this will be fun...Post 864 may have just blown the game wide open, and I think post 871 may have just unintentionally solved the game. Here are my updated reads and likely final reads of the game:

Town: Corwin, Rad, Cheap, Whiskey
Scum: BlueBlood, Bella

The timeline for Day 2 so far:

-Bella states not to rush Day 2 after BlueBlood and I cross-vote.
-Rad posts some VCA and mentions that Spartan had named BBT/Bella as a very possible scum team (I had forgotten this until Rad's 864.)
-Rewind. Spartan is the night-kill Night 1 after parking his vote on BlueBlood and naming BlueBlood/Bella as a scum-team.
-BlueBlood comes in shortly after Rad's VCA post and deposits three god-awful steamers, throwing shit in every direction and hoping it sticks somewhere.
-10 minutes later, Bella, WHO HAS BEEN ON EVERY E-1 WAGON SO FAR ALONG WITH BLUEBLOOD (including on both of the players who have flipped green so far), and barely 24 hours into Day 2 (after saying not to rush the vote), drops in and leaves a naked vote on Corwin to put him to E-1. Despite "not quite willing to give him a town-read yet", has literally followed his every step and been on every wagon with him.

To Corwin, Rad, Whiskey, and Cheap, regardless of what you think of me as a person/whether or not you think I'm scum, flipping BlueBlood today essentially sorts 3 of the 7 remaining players. It sorts BlueBlood (obviously), myself (unless you somehow think Somnus/BlueBlood has been scum-theater), and Corwin (he'd essentially become lock-town). If Vasex, Spartan, and myself were all wrong about BlueBlood and he has played the most baffling, borderline game-throwing town game ever, so be it. Let me remind you that Vasex was quick-hammered by BlueBlood, Bella parked her vote on Vasex and left it there, not seeming even remotely bothered by the possibility of a quick-hammer (but now wants everyone to take their time on Day 2 despite having just created a very early E-1) and Spartan is now dead. All of this happened after there were no takers by town to hammer Spartan.

If any of the 4 of you still think I'm scum, that's fine.

You can even flip me today

. I offer this as someone who currently has zero votes on them. I don't mind. If we go with me today, once I flip green, flip BlueBlood and Bella back to back days. If I'm wrong, so be it. It's not a game of perfect information. And considering we lost the most OP town power role that exists in Newbie Games due to a quick-hammer on Day 1,

this is about as good of a chance of winning this game as you could ever dream of after that Day 1 debacle.

But to those of you who are still going along with BlueBlood and Bella, I suggest you look at where it has gotten you so far, and if you continue to follow them, you will be the next lemming going over the cliff (fun fact: lemmings don't actually do this, but I digress). They've already set up Corwin and Cheap as the next two/final Day eliminations after it became clear I wasn't going to be a super easy mis-lim today.

Take a quick browse through Spartan's ISO, particularly posts 273, 279, 282, 287 (this is a good one), 289 (another really good one), 294, 296 (this is what ended up happening!), 300, 302, 306, etc.

Look as far back through the game as you're willing to under the pretenses of the exact scum-team being BlueBlood and Bella, and tell me you somehow disagree. Hell, if you don't have it in you to go all the way back to the beginning, at least go to late Day 1 and read from there, and ESPECIALLY read what has transpired so far on Day 2 under the pretenses of the aforementioned team.

Literally THE ENTIRE game makes sense when you look at it through those lenses.

Again, after that, tell me with a straight face that you somehow disagree.

If you still have your doubts about me, you should be on-board with flipping me today and then flipping them back to back, no questions asked, after I flip green

.


I humbly offer to Corwin, Rad, Whiskey, and Cheap one of the following two options. I obviously can't make you do either, but it would be greatly appreciated and would significantly advance your win-con if you take me up on one of the following:

1.) Flip me today. Again, I don't mind. I'll be green. But after you do,

FOLLOW THIS SOLVE

. Once I flip green, you'll see that I'm not partnered with anyone, have no reason to personally protect Corwin/Cheapside, and that my motivations are clean. The only risk here is that somehow, Bella is town and helped mafia in every single vote and play in this entire game. I don't think that's the case, but it's still technically a risk.

2.) Flip BlueBlood. This sorts his slot, mine, and Corwin, and makes my solve very very likely. If after a red flip here, Bella mysteriously flips town on Day 3 (I don't think she will), it still wouldn't lose the game. Whoever is still alive would have presumably a 3P eLo on Day 4. So even if this somehow is not the exact solve, you have a free ticket to Day 4 eLo unless you want to tell me that there's zero scum in BlueBlood and Bella. After finishing this post and reading back, at the very least from Day 2 and looking at the wagons that have transpired so far,

NO ONE should think that that's a reality.

I believe Rad was "town-binned" to help contribute to mafia winning in eLo via his mis-vote. Same can potentially be said for Whiskey who I'm pretty sure, prior to this post, was going to be killed Night 2, and still might. The same pivot to town-reading Spartan occurred the moment it became clear that town wasn't interested in hammering Spartan (check out 852, Whiskey. This was essentially you marked for dead). How do you go from wanting to hammer someone 7 posts and MAYBE a day into replacing in, to "Spartan is probably town, Bella"? This dude ain't town. And if he is, we were screwed from the start.

As a reminder, as of this post, I have zero votes on me and am in no danger of elimination. I offered myself up as an elimination on Day 1 to blow open the game and didn't receive any takers. With my flip, the scum team's narrative would have been in absolute shambles going into Day 2. Considering how much more information we have now, they probably should have taken me up on my offer. And I'm now offering it again if needed.

If you somehow think I'm doing this to try and save a hypothetical Scum!Somnus partner of Corwin/Cheap despite making the same offer on Day 1, again, I am offering myself as the Day 2 elimination to the 4 of you.

As a further reminder, Corwin started Day 2 saying that the vote today should be between myself and Cheap. He then followed it up later on in the day and mentioned that he had gotten myself and Spartan mixed up when he could have stayed on me. If he had, Bella inevitably would have put me at E-1 or waited for one of the other three of you to put me at E-1 and she would have hammered at some point after. Once it became clear that Corwin was town-reading me and had me mixed up with Spartan and that Cheap was town-reading me, the plan to try and eliminate Somnus on Day 2 quickly vanished. BlueBlood quickly abandoned his vote on me, pivoted to Corwin, and even tried to bargain with me to join him. They've since been putting out feelers for thoughts on Cheapside as well. He and Bella have been lining up Cheapside and Corwin to be the last two Day Eliminations since.

To Bella, if I'm wrong (and even if I'm right), it's nothing personal. But if I am wrong, this is just kind of how it goes when you're on every E-1 wagon, including the two that have both flipped green so far, have very quickly created another one nearly at the start of Day 2, and have been on the same page as BlueBlood every step of the way (despite allegedly not quite being ready to town-read him). Scum often throw their partner right in the middle of their reads and then gradually town-read them. Hell, both of you currently have the EXACT scum-pool of Somnus, Cheapside, and Corwin. What are the odds considering you don't quite town-read him? In order for you to be town in this game, it would now require everyone to assume that you were essentially an honorary mafia member.

There's not a rational conversation I could have with BlueBlood here, so no offense to him personally outside of the confines of the game, but I'm not interested in his thoughts on this post and will not be engaging with his response to this. My bullshit filter is in full effect.

So that leaves 4 other people. For this to happen, 3 of the 4 of you would need to be on-board. Again, I can't dictate or force anyone to do anything. I'm 1 player in the game out of the remaining 7. But since I know that at an absolute bare minimum, 3 of the 4 of you are town (and I'm now pretty sure all 4 of you are), this should be a no-brainer.

So again, to Corwin, Rad, Whiskey, and Cheap: Do we have a deal?

P.S: As someone not even in danger of elimination here, I offer you this: Don't you think that maybe, JUST MAYBE, if I'm scum in this game, I easily join the pack and push Vasex through as "a policy vote", get away completely free of blame afterwards (ESPECIALLY based on our early interactions together), and then have my pick of Corwin or Cheap to just go along with on Day 2? If I'm scum, with the way this game has gone, we'd be in Night 2 right now and I could have hammered Corwin or jumped on the suspicions of Cheap. And that JUST MAYBE, I kill BlueBlood Night 1 if he's town?

Instead, out of the three players who were hard town-reading me on Day 1, Scum!Somnus decided it would be a brilliant idea to allow my partner to push through a Day 1 wagon on one of them and then night-kill another (after not pushing Spartan through on Day 1 anyway). Doesn't seem very effective for me to be this damn picky as scum. I also have zero reason as scum to now be presenting Bella as the solve, considering she has no votes on her, and isn't really hard scum-read by anyone else still alive in the game (as far as I know, although it looks like since I started this post this morning, Rad has at the very least referenced his scum-read of Bella from Day 1). There's WIFOM and then there's just "fucking stupid." For me to be scum here, it would definitely fall under "fucking stupid."

P.S.S: As a reminder, a doctor claim by anyone at E-1 is now meaningless. If we're in A1, there will be a counter-claim. In order for the doctor to still have any more value than a vanilla townie (since the cop is already dead), they would have to make TWO saves on night kills to gain an extra mis-lim for town. That is extremely unlikely to happen at this point, and if this solve is correct, we might not even have two more night phases. If we're in C1, all scum would have to do at E-1 is claim doctor (in C1, the only town PR is a cop), and if they're believed, could coast to the end-game under a fake "clear". Only the death of a hypothetical mafia roleblocker at this point would prove that there's a doctor in the game. Otherwise, we're in C1 where it's just a cop. I don't want to open up a discussion on power roles further than that, but I advise you to keep this in mind.

Thank-you for coming to my TedTalk. I'm going to let the thread breathe for a while.

[Somnus]

No. We had yesterday to eliminate the slot that is either open-wolfing or town gamethrowing and we somehow didn't. Bella is not the vote today, and your reluctance to eliminate a slot that should have been sorted by now that would sort literally three out of the seven slots is giving me pause.

[Somnus]

I feel like I don't have anything really beneficial to add at the moment which is incredibly lame of me, but I'm running on fumes right now and desperately need to sleep. To whoever among us is around for Day 3, I think it would be wise to slow down and take as much of the time as we can, at the very least, to make things as uncomfortable for mafia as possible. VCA matters, but it's not a full clear for anyone.

[Somnus]

Oh thank God. I've wanted out of this game for a while and I meant what I said that one of BlueBlood or myself needs to be flipped today, if for nothing else than the vast wealth of information that either flip would provide. Can't really afford to do that in eLo. I'll just go through a few things for everyone that stood out to me, and the rest I didn't feel was important. Not that you need it, but you have my permission to quick-hammer. This game has been the drizzling-shits and there's several people in the playerlist that have been completely insufferable. In case it weren't painfully obvious since Day 1, I'm a vanilla townie.

-BlueBlood: Flip this slot tomorrow after I flip green. This shouldn't even be debatable after all of the flipped town wagons he's been on and pushed, every conversation that he has derailed between other people and tried to shut down the flow of information, quick-hammering the cop with 5 days left in Day 1, the so-far two confirmed dead townies (and soon to be 3) that have massively scum-read him and are coincidentally the first 3 people in the game to die, trying to eliminate a replace-in literally 7 posts after they joined just days after the start of the game, and the list goes on and on and on.

Yes, it's still a quick hammer. Just because you claimed intent and let that ride for maybe an hour, and literally hammered Vasex in a reactionary manner in literally the same minute that he said "f u" to you, it's still a quick-hammer. I was away for most of the weekend for reasons I had explained, and we had just had a player replace in what like...24 hours ago? Maybe less? I don't even remember. If NewD3 had a vigilante, I would have shot this slot, no questions asked on Night 1, and even if he flipped town, proudly claimed the shot at the start of Day 2. Town STILL probably would have been better off. If this slot is town, it has been by far the most disruptive, destructive, and anti-town player in the game, and no one on town who votes him out on Day 3 and loses in eLo should feel even remotely bad about the decision if this is somehow green. I said it before and I'll say it again: If this slot is green, we were completely and utterly fucked the second he replaced in.

Bella: Don't know what kind of response you were looking for from those 3 bizarre posts back after my large post in 919. The only question I saw in it was asking if I thought you miscounting a vote was faked, which isn't something I ever brought up? (I think someone else did, but again, this isn't important to me). Other than that, I don't see any questions there, so I don't know what you were anxiously waiting for a response to. I just saw a lot of this, so I didn't really take any of it seriously:

bella is strange... she was participating in two E-1s, she could stop it, but she didn't. and

she plays at that moments almost like a victim, i dont know... if bella has much experience in mafia, i'am scumreading this slot a bit

With that said, I'm kind of forced to be brutally honest here. And it's somewhere in which I would have preferred not to venture, but at this point, fuck it:

While I wasn't town-reading you on Day 1, I was hesitant to scum-read you. I just got done spectating a game where you were carried as town. Until the mafia flip at the end of Day 3, you were my biggest scum-read in that game. The tone just feels really off and faked to me a lot of the time, but that may very well just be personality. Fine. I can accept that. In that game, your end of day vote accuracy was 0/4, and it's presumably about to be 0/2 in this game.

Day 1: Town elimination wagon. Bella is the 3rd vote out of 5
Day 2: Town elimination wagon. Bella is the 2nd vote out of 5 (night-kills were blocked Nights 1 and 2, in case you're curious about these numbers)
Day 3: Mafia elimination wagon. Bella is not voting.
Day 4: Ended with mafia conceding. However, with 5 still alive, there was 1 mechanically cleared town player, Bella, two other townies (including one who was the most obvious townie to ever town), and the person I had been correctly scum-reading since Day 2 from the spectator thread. Bella votes the two townies during Day 4 and twice in a matter of days, mistakenly thinks that they're in eLo when it's 4 town vs. 1 mafia.

So like...I was kind of ok with accepting in this game that you were just a clueless townie. And part of me is now cycling back to that. If I were here for Day 3, I don't think you'd' get my vote now. In eLo though? Pretty good chance, depending on whoever else is there. Your naked vote on Corwin in 871 exactly 10 minutes after BlueBlood puts him at E-2 with no further comment looks really bad, and I don't know if it's bad town or bad mafia. I'm probably the only one that is seeing it this way, but it almost screamed to me, "Please, no one notice that I'm doing this." If you're town in this game, it feels like you're more concerned with working with a player that you played in a game with years ago than you are of actually solving the game. Some of your interactions together feel a lot like theater, but I've thought that about a few other pairings in this game so I dunno.

Two nights ago, I spent some time looking for the scum-game where you two were together and I couldn't find. I don't see any reason that you'd lie about this, so providing this for Day 3 could potentially be of at least a little bit of help.

Rad: I'm kind of back to this slot having a pretty decent chance of being scum. I thought his early Day 2 stuff was good. The progression over the last couple of day or day and a half feels really unnatural. He was questioning BlueBlood a lot in Day 2 and it never really went anywhere and they feel like softballs with no follow-through. 924 feels slimey. His assessment of my "gambit" that a couple of people really despise is accurate, but if he's scum, he'd know I'm not bluffing anyway so like...cool, I guess? Again, 951 feels really fake. So does 952. It's possible that he really is in full lap-dog mode, but pocketing like this is pretty extreme, whether by town or mafia. His vote on BlueBlood back on June 3rd in post 155 lasted 8 hours, and he's since followed him every step of the way. Rad and Bella are never a team in this game. He even says, "I'll unvote because no one seems to be sold on Bella scum even with my writeup on HIM." Possible he doesn't really know his partner very well by that point, but I don't think this is ever the team, even if you want to make the argument that Scum!Rad's vote on Bella earlier in Day 2 was safe because Bella was unlikely the elimination Day 2. Wasn't part of the Spartan wagon or ever voted for him, so there's that, at least. Was on the Vasex wagon and is about to be on both town mis-lim wagons in this game.

The drunken freakout last Sunday is still weird to me. Even if you don't give any credence to Vasex's theory about a private thread slip, the response reeks of, "You're catching me for the wrong reason though!". This part of it was always weird to me though: "BBT made a tech error clicking the wrong thing on his phone. You'll see at end of game that's what happened XD". Like...how do you know? How do you know there's not a slip and that he's talking to someone else? Why is your first reaction to be, "Trust me, I already know that that's what happened." Is this supposed to be a concealed, "You'll see that I'm actually partnered with someone else"? Doubt it, but your whole reaction and drunken tantrum afterwards is gross, and it's the kind of freakout you expect to see from someone who hasn't played as scum a lot and doesn't know what to do when they're accused of something. The whole thing is just gross and immature. What happened to blindly sheeping Whiskey? That didn't last.

If I were cop in this game, I would have investigated Rad or Whiskey Night 1. Of course, we had a cop, but he was quick-hammered Day 1.

Whiskey: Other than a vibe that this could potentially be the scum that no one is seeing because town has been making mafia's job super easy, I don't really have much to say here. Like I said, I would have investigated this slot or Rad Night 1 if I were cop. He has a plausible out to unvote for fear of another idiot quick-hammer, unfortunately. Otherwise, it would look a bit more suspicious. He did put BloodBlood at E-1 though, even though it didn't last very long.

Corwin: This slot has been scum-read by a lot of the playerlist. Honesty, I had him as a solid null for the like...24 hours we had him for on Day 1. The mixup of Somnus/Spartan looks genuinely stupid. I'm more inclined to think he just doesn't know what's going on in this game. However, he's about to be on both town mis-lim wagons, so there's that. Probably an easy mis-lim target to seal the game if he's town. Other than that, I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. Only reason I've town-read him in this game was because of the seemingly coordinated wagon to get him out of the game ASAP extremely early in Day 2. And there's BlueBlood, Rad, and Bella again, right on queue. At least one of you is having an absolutely horrific game as town, if not two of you.

Cheapside: I agree with about half of what Cheapside posts. I'm kind of torn. All of the "BUT WHAT ABOUT CHEAP? HE LOOKS JUST AS BAD AS ME!" from BlueBlood and Bella, I don't think either of them have actually voted here today? Has Cheapside been voted on at all in Day 2? He doesn't post very often, so he's often pretty forgettable. Not going to bother to check. So that's weird. But it still does feel more likely that the Day 2 elimination plan was Somnus, then it shifted to Corwin while putting feelers out for Cheapside, then Corwin opened the floodgates and voted for the person he listed as his top town-read Day 1. I'm not voting Cheapside Day 3 if I'm in this game. Not saying this is lock-town (no one has had a particularly townie game, unfortunately, and we now know that several townies have very quickly jumped on any town elimination wagon as long as it wasn't themselves), but this slot and Corwin still seem like they're being setup to be the eLo vote. But again, the lack of votes towards this slot by the people scum-reading it is rather weird.

So there you go. Town was pretty screwed the second the cop was quick-hammered and it was essentially read as stunning and brave throughout Day 2. Town deserves to lose this game. Almost everything Vasex said pre and post-hammer was correct. You have reads from two dead townies that had me as their top town-read, a wagon that went from E-4 to eliminated in no time at all, those same people mostly were on the Spartan E-1 wagon, the Corwin E-1 wagon, and now the Somnus E-1 wagon, and we're not going with any of those. I picked a bad game to roll town for the first time.

Again, you have my permission to quick-hammer. Now kill BlueBlood tomorrow. This should have happened ages ago. If they're town, they primarily cost us the game anyway. These reads aren't going to magically change post-hammer. Now get me out of this train-wreck.

[Somnus]

I’m pretty checked out of this game, but pretty sure it’s just BlueBlood and Rad at this point, honestly. The VCA would indicate that and Rad did everything he could to avoid voting for BlueBlood. Whoever is left on Day 3 should probably just do that and worst case scenario, we’re released from this game.

[Somnus]

Won’t be home for quite a while. Like...evening/night my time. I’ll catch up then. I can’t really mentally go through what teams are “mathematically“ ruled out at the moment from the votes earlier until I can sit down and take a better look at it.

[Somnus]

Just a quick comment and you can take it or leave it: I’m the guy who in eLo as scum subscribes to receive e-mail alerts on the gamethread every time there’s a new post, and will sleep with my phone by my ear with the volume turned all the way up so I don’t miss a chance to quick-hammer. If I’m scum and BBT is town, this game is already over.

Anyway, I really can’t give this the proper look it deserves until much later today. As much as I’d want this game over one way or another, out of respect to everyone who has participated in the game the last 16 days, I at least owe it to them to give everything a proper look. I’m not voting today.

[Somnus]

Alright. 2nd time through reading Day 3. Gonna post some thoughts as I go along.

Some VCA stuff on any wagon that has gotten to E-1 so far...

Spartan: Whiskey Delta (leftover vote on Jackal), Cheapside, Bellaphant, BlueBloodedToffee (E-1)

Vote Count 1.07

Vasex (5):

Bellaphant, Corwinoid, Rad, Cheapside, BlueBloodedToffee

ELIMINATION

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Spartan117, Somnus

Rad (1):

Vasex

Somnus (1):

whiskey delta

With 9 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is June 12 at 3:00 AM GMT +8

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-12 03:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Nero Cain is now the back-up mod.

Corwin: Rad, Blueblood, Bellaphant (E-1), (Rad unvotes in his first post here after Corwin is put at E-1)

Vote Count 2.05

BlueBloodedToffee (3):

Somnus, Corwinoid, whiskey delta (

E-1

)

Corwinoid (2):

BlueBloodedToffee, Bellaphant

Not Voting (2):

Cheapside, Rad

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is June 15

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-16 14:15:00)

-At this point, Rad puts his vote back on Corwin and invites Cheap to join him in voting for Bella.

-Blueblood says he's down to eliminate Bella as self-preservation.

-Rad asks Whiskey and Somnus if they'll vote for Bella.

-Rad votes for Bella.

-Whiskey unvotes, but we know this was from town so whatever.

-Cheapside puts BlueBlood back at E-1, but again, we know this was from town.

Vote Count 2.08

Somnus (3):

Corwinoid, BlueBloodedToffee, Rad (

E-1

)

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Somnus, Cheapside

Corwinoid (1):

Bellaphant

Not Voting (1):

whiskey delta

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is June 15

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-16 14:15:00)

mod note:

your mod is back now

-The first 2 votes on this wagon were 3 minutes apart, then Rad pops in 5 hours later for the E-1 vote.

-Bella twice expressed intent to hammer

-Blueblood unvotes.

-Corwin shifts his vote to Rad, apparenty to try and trap Somnus or Bella.

-Corwin shifts his vote back to Somnus and is joined shortly thereafter by BlueBlood.

-Rad unvotes. The wagon shifts over to Cheapside after some thoughts from Whiskey.

-Corwin votes Whiskey with roughly 48 hours until the Day 2 deadline. This vote clearly was never going to go anywhere Day 2.

-In a span of 7 minutes, Cheapside goes from 0 votes on him to 3 (E-1).

-As soon as BlueBlood arrives, expresses intent to hammer, and then hammers shortly thereafter.

Vote Count 2.12

Cheapside (4):

whiskey delta, Rad, Corwinoid, BlueBloodedToffee

ELIMINATION

BlueBloodedToffee (2):

Somnus, Cheapside

Not Voting (1):

Bellaphant

With 7 alive, it's 4 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is June 15

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-06-16 14:15:00)

mod note:

i'll fix up the game in my free time. sorry for the state of things.

[Somnus]

I'm a little weirded out by the fact that Bella doesn't appear to even be considering the possibility of BlueBlood being mafia in eLo, especially after everything we've seen in this game. Here's the thing: I don't town-read people dependent on whether or not I agree with them. And that's fine. The important question to ask is whether I think that they truly believe what they're saying. It's not secret that I've agreed with Bella on like...virtually nothing in this game. I didn't understand the question about whether I thought the unannounced E-1 was intentional, and I didn't particularly think it was important. And personally, I think the idea of not being able to get a confident read on someone because you were briefly mafia partners with them in 1 game 7 years ago is...really silly, to be kind about it. But it doesn't matter whether I disagree or think it's ridiculous. It's whether I believe that Bella believes that. And I...kind of do?

Like...we already know Bella isn't paired with myself, Rad, or Corwin. She's not gonna slow-roll and drag out this game and showboat. If she's mafia, the only person left she could be paired with barring a really unethical slow-roll is BlueBlood, and I don't see her doing that. Realistically, I wasn't voting here today anyway.

[Somnus]

Something in 1159 bothers me, did I just read this wrong and I'm making something out of nothing

like I did with Vivax?

Wrong game. I know you said you mixed up Spartan and myself early in Day 1, then I noticed a post later on in Day 2 where you mixed up Cheapside and I (don't have it on-hand at the moment), and this is a player from a game that I can't comment on (although I get the similarity between this name and Vasex). Would mafia really make this many mistakes in keeping the players in a game straight? I read someone as town recently for somewhat similar reasons and it's kind of shit to do so. I don't know what to think of these name mix-ups.

[Somnus]

Should say early in Day 2 ^

[Somnus]

We just cleared what 3/25s of scum pairings....

It's actually only 10 pairings. I had to double check, because I've never been in 5P eLo before. Only 3P eLo.

Bella - Somnus

Bella - Rad

Bella - Corwin

Bella - BlueBlood
Somnus - Rad
Somnus - Corwin
Somnus - BlueBlood
Rad - Corwin
Rad - BlueBlood
Corwin - BlueBlood

If I hadn't missed the window to check in while BlueBlood was at E-1, you could strike off two more pairings, making it so that both Bella and Somnus could only be paired with BlueBlood. I didn't though, so it is what it is. Wasn't expecting early votes today.

[Somnus]

Just a quick comment and you can take it or leave it:

I’m the guy who in eLo as scum subscribes to receive e-mail alerts on the gamethread every time there’s a new post, and will sleep with my phone by my ear with the volume turned all the way up so I don’t miss a chance to quick-hammer.

If I’m scum and BBT is town, this game is already over.

Anyway, I really can’t give this the proper look it deserves until much later today. As much as I’d want this game over one way or another, out of respect to everyone who has participated in the game the last 16 days, I at least owe it to them to give everything a proper look. I’m not voting today.

This is 100% truth, by the way.

I was in 3P eLo twice as mafia and ended up being the hammering vote both times. The first time, I hammered half an hour after the first person voted (was occupied for a bit), and the second time, I hammered 4 minutes after the first person voted after 6 and a half days of eLo.

Subscribing to the mafia private thread in those games wouldn't have done me a lot of good since my partner was dead both times. So yes, I set up alerts for the main thread in both of those games. Didn't bother to in this game because -gasp- I have no reason to be on alert for a quick-hammer. Crazy, I know.

[Somnus]

Bella, if scum!BBT, why is town!Bella still alive? This has been troubling me.

People have already touched upon this, but I think you're perfectly aware of why Town!Bella would be brought here.

[Somnus]

Does anyone disagree that BBT was dead town's biggest scum read?

I don't disagree, and normally I wouldn't put an enormous amount of emphasis on it, especially when talking about JUST the 2 night-kills. But literally every dead/confirmed town has been massively scum-reading that slot, and most of them died shortly thereafter (not just from night-kills). For that slot to flip town, it would mean not only that myself, Vasex, Spartan, Cheapside, and Whiskey all misread it, but that all of the damaging town plays from that slot have somehow come from town. Possible? Yes, sure.

[Somnus]

Yeah somnus, that's all I'm getting at here. I don't mean to be offensive when I say town deserves to lose if bbt flips green. I mean to say that everyone confirmed town has misread a town!bbt so fuck it, this is town's read, right or wrong.

Seems like a good chance he flips red. I'm not sure what better play there could be for town here.

I get it. I know a couple people didn't like that comment, but I understood the sentiment behind it. Because I know I'm town, I can cross off Somnus/Rad and Somnus/Corwin as pairings as well. So literally the only pairing that wouldn't have BlueBlood in it would be Rad and Corwin. And I'm afraid I'm not going to get to going through those two ISOs tonight.

[Somnus]

As you can see by such stupid mistakes as "And I'm afraid I'm not going to get to going through those two ISOs tonight", I clearly wouldn't be able to mentally handle doing so tonight.

[Somnus]

Hey somnus, let me know when you're around. I got a quick fire question for you if you would humor me.

I’m on now and will be for a little bit. Otherwise, I’ll check in periodically over the next couple hours. I’m not going to be up very late tonight. I’ve got another gaming event I’m leading tomorrow that starts pretty early.

[Somnus]

Yes

[Somnus]

Go for it

[Somnus]

Lol. Ok. I operate and sleep at weird hours most days. Days like tomorrow when I have an event going on are different. Got up a little before noon.

[Somnus]

I don't know?

[Somnus]

Around the same time? Like...I can barely remember what I ate for breakfast yesterday.

[Somnus]

If the 3rd question is when I took my last bowel movement, I could go into explicit detail, but I'll spare the thread a response.

[Somnus]

I mean, I kinda figured by the 2nd question that that's where you were going with it. I'm not going to ask you and Corwin to risk the game by putting your votes on him just so I can say, "See? I'm not paired with either of you", but no, I've never missed an opportunity to quick-hammer as mafia, and if I continue playing the game of mafia, I probably never will.

[Somnus]

Sounds good. I may or may not still be up, depending on what time. Early night for me tonight.

[Somnus]

Alright. I've had a long day, but I had a chance to go through the ISOs of Rad and Corwin to cover my bases. There wasn't really a magical "AHA!" moment that popped up.

The only teams that are full 100% clear are:

Bella-Somnus
Bella-Rad
Bella-Corwin

I know that I'm town, and wouldn't vote for myself anyway, so from my POV, the following teams are also clear:

Somnus-BlueBlood
Somnus-Rad
Somnus-Corwin

So from my POV these last 2 and a half days, I know with 100% certainty that the team is one of the 4 following:

BlueBlood-Bella
BlueBlood-Rad
BlueBlood-Corwin
Rad-Corwin

Seems like I know what the obvious vote by me should be today, right? I'm trying to cover all my bases though.

[Somnus]

I'm trying to maintain at least a shred of a sense of humor in what has been by far the most frustrating game of mafia I've played so far, so just a flashback to how different this game could have been right now. This is just for laughs and nothing more. Don't read into it.

To everyone else, flip one of me, BlueBlood, or Rad today. Obviously, my preference isn't myself, but it would at least break this game the fuck open and make the solve easier.

If any of the 4 of you still think I'm scum, that's fine.

You can even flip me today

. I offer this as someone who currently has zero votes on them. I don't mind. If we go with me today, once I flip green, flip BlueBlood and Bella back to back days. If I'm wrong, so be it. It's not a game of perfect information. And considering we lost the most OP town power role that exists in Newbie Games due to a quick-hammer on Day 1,

this is about as good of a chance of winning this game as you could ever dream of after that Day 1 debacle.

...

So again, to Corwin, Rad, Whiskey, and Cheap: Do we have a deal?

[Somnus]

Fair points, and as someone who hasn't gotten along with you very well this game, I do like your Day 3 here. Even if you're mafia, I like it.

Anyway, goal for tomorrow for me is going through BlueBlood/Corwin interactions.

[Somnus]

Fun times.

[Somnus]

Are we all done hammer-testing yet or no?

[Somnus]

You’re not at e-1 though? How are Bella and I individually cleared as full town?

[Somnus]

Nah. But we already know Somnus-Bella is clear.

[Somnus]

I’m still two pages behind.

[Somnus]

I’ve been the laziest, least-coordinated scum ever at this point if it’s me/anyone.

[Somnus]

We did gain some good team clears from the early Day 3 votes, but there’s no pairings completely crossed off since then, and we’re 1 incorrect hammer test away from a loss. I’d prefer invites at this point, but it’s not my call individually.

[Somnus]

You could still be scum with BlueBlood. I guess I could be paired with him too and we just missed our chance. I could still be paired with Rad and somehow didn’t give enough of a shit at the start of Day 3 to hammer the player who I’ve been dead-set on being scum since late day 1.

[Somnus]

We did gain some good team clears from the early Day 3 votes, but there’s no pairings completely crossed off since then, and we’re 1 incorrect hammer test away from a loss. I’d prefer invites at this point, but it’s not my call individually.

Unvotes, not invites.

[Somnus]

I mean, I think most of us are pretty on board with BlueBlood at a minimum being mafia. I’ve slowly been spending my Day 3 just trying to cross the T’s and dot the I’s in case it’s not.

[Somnus]

Assuming you both have at least semi-accepted the gross reality that Somnus finally rolled town, I only have 4 possible pairings left.

BlueBlood is in 3 of them
Rad is in 2 of them
Corwin is in 2 of them
Bella is in 1 of them.

[Somnus]

Cool, but who's actually scum? Bbt and? Saying it 'could be you' isn't helpful

I don’t need to literally nail the exact team right now. What I need to decide is: is it BlueBlood + anyone or is it exactly Rad/Corwin. That’s it as far as Day 3 goes.

[Somnus]

Really would prefer more time. Like, I was going to go through the unfortunate task of going through BlueBlood’s stellar and super-productive ISO today, as well as the ISO of Corwin, and look for interactions.

[Somnus]

There isn’t a tomorrow though if you’re wrong. Like, you’ve been on both mis-lim wagons, Corwin. It’s certainly possible Town!Corwin is jumping to a game-losing conclusion here.

[Somnus]

Actually is it possible for you to be town here and wrong?

[Somnus]

I guess so. For that to be the case, Rad jumped in at the very start of Day 3 and somehow wasn’t able to alert Somnus to hammer the player I’ve had as scum most of the game and end what has been a mostly terrible experience.

[Somnus]

So out of curiosity, what pairing is Town!Corwin assuming? Because if you’re convinced it’s Rad, fine, but Bella-Rad is already clear. That leaves Somnus-Rad or BlueBlood-Rad.

[Somnus]

I could clear Somnus-Rad and Somnus-Corwin right now if you trust that I in fact didn’t skip coordinating with my hypothetical partner to end this mess early Day 3.

[Somnus]

If BlueBlood wants to show back up and clear Somnus-BlueBlood right now, that would be fantastic too

There's always the possibility that it's BlueBlood Bella and somehow just couldn't coordinate yet, but meh...

[Somnus]

Then it would pretty much have to be BlueBlood/Rad from your perspective. Not 100%, but mostly.

[Somnus]

I guess I play the waiting game then and make sure BlueBlood/Bella didn't just miss an opportunity to hammer.

Like I said, I could clear Somnus/Rad and Somnus/Corwin right now, and it apparently wasn't a threat to either of you at the start of Day 3 anyway. But I digress.

[Somnus]

I've got about 15-20 more mins before I have to disappear for a while.

[Somnus]

I should probably “bus” my Rad partner then, huh?

[Somnus]

Damn. And the BlueBlood-Somnus theory would have been so delicious. Sorry to disappoint, all.

[Somnus]

Bella - Somnus

Bella - Rad

Bella - Corwin

Somnus - BlueBlood

<--------------- You are here
Bella - BlueBlood
Somnus - Rad
Somnus - Corwin
Rad - Corwin
Rad - BlueBlood
Corwin - BlueBlood

[Somnus]

Corwin, if you're still around and want to do one last hammer test that you and Rad didn't have a problem with doing at the start of Day 3, I can confirm right now I'm not paired with either of you. Up to you.

[Somnus]

I'd be a confirmed IC. Have to leave soon though.

[Somnus]

You voting him first clears Somnus/Corwin and I think you know that.

Bella should probably hold off.

[Somnus]

Otherwise, I just vote for you now and regardless of whether Rad is town or scum, I just wait for Bella to realize that every single confirmed town, plus myself, Rad, and Corwin all massively scum-read you. And if we're all wrong, so be it, and you hopefully take some time to reflect on why.

[Somnus]

Somnus/Corwin isn't clear though? What am I missing here?

[Somnus]

Ah. You're correct.

[Somnus]

I do have to leave for quite a while, and I hope at the very least, Bella is willing to wait since we're just now sorting out more clears.

[Somnus]

Corwin thinks it’s Rad/Blueblood. If he goes with BlueBlood today, we already know Bella and I are cleared from being a BlueBlood partner. One of Bella and I eats a bullet, and you have Rad, Corwin, and a confirmed town tomorrow.

Going through these scenarios on the fly instead of at my computer makes me feel like a potato though.

[Somnus]

And yes, from the perspective of Town!Rad, literally the only possible pairing at this point is BlueBlood/Corwin.

[Somnus]

I’m not sure how many more hammer tests we can get away with here though. Like, I only asked Corwin if he wanted to clear Somnus/Corwin and Somnus/Rad because you both had opened that door at the start of Day 3, but I wasn’t around.

[Somnus]

Like, what’s Town!Corwin’s plan/path to victory? Vote off Scum!Rad, and then what?

Final 3 of:

Corwin, BlueBlood, Bella. He knows he’s not surviving.
Corwin, BlueBlood, Somnus. Is he surviving that either?

Like...I don’t see a path for Town!Corwin to win here with his stance. At all.

[Somnus]

I’m not sure how many more hammer tests we can get away with here though. Like, I only asked Corwin if he wanted to clear Somnus/Corwin and Somnus/Rad because you both had opened that door at the start of Day 3, but I wasn’t around.

To clarify, Somnus/Corwin has since been cleared anyway.

[Somnus]

Like, from my stance, the best play is to vote off the player at this point who has been scum-read by:

Vasex (confirmed town)
Spartan (confirmed town)
Cheapside (confirmed town)
Whiskey (confirmed town)
Somnus (since mid to late Day 1)
Corwin (enough to put him at E-1 hours into Day 3)
Rad (who could theoretically be bussing)

And if all of that is wrong then GG to Rad and Corwin and it’s just a game and it’s been 20 days and I don’t think it would be the end of the world if all of those people are wrong and we’re finally free?

[Somnus]

Somnus, do you feel comfortable putting your vote on corwin to clear me and bbt team?

Not particularly, at the moment, but I think your solve is the most likely one.

[Somnus]

If you read me town over corwin please take the risk. Bella is going to vote me over bbt. I need more data on me to help my case.

I’ll have to have a 1 on 1 chat with Bella first.

[Somnus]

It would be a lot of risk for me because it would only clear 1 of the 2 possible Rad teams and could straight-up lose the game.

[Somnus]

I'd just like to point out that this is going to become the longest Newbie game of 2022 as far as post-count sometime tomorrow. And we're in Day 3.

[Somnus]

Also, if the original mafia team was Italiano and Bosco...fuck me.

[Somnus]

The only real "possible" teams remaining are my/bbt, rad/bbt, and me/rad. There are no more hammer tests, and no more safe vote testing. The path to victory is knowing bbt is the common denominator and just eliminating him tomorrow regardless of who he kills tonight.

Me/Somnus -> BBT
Me/Bella -> BBT
Bella/Somnus -> BBT.

Yes, you need to decide between me and Rad here. I'm asking you to seriously look at the player who's done a complete 180 from sheeping town and asking for guidance to driving a narrative, using false information, being misleading, and intentionally doing risky things that would either lose immediately or end in a low information day. Do take your time, look at the play today, look what's happened today -- I'm not the scummy one here.

There literally is no tomorrow if we take a 50/50 shot here and get it wrong. And even if we get it right, it certainly looks like whoever goes into Day 3 with BlueBlood and Bella is automatically going to get voted out, unfortunately.

[Somnus]

I’m about to go to bed, but I’ll say: I think as far as Day 3 goes at the very least, it would be a massive mistake for Bella to vote for you. That doesn’t automatically clear you for a potential Day 4. I get that. But I think your solve is probably correct, and a town!BlueBlood would objectively know by now that you’re mafia, and yet his vote isn’t there. I’m still going to have to 1 on 1 convo with Bella, but Bella, what we’re seeing here should be pinging some recent memories of syugar. I know the rest of you don’t know what that means, but she does.

[Somnus]

My play gained town winning knowledge for me but not you. That's a losing move that I didn't realize when I was making it. I was just seeing town clears happening which should be objectively good for town right? Well it cleared into a scenario where rad is the most unknown to 1 of the remaining towns and gives both scum a way to show why they believe in scum!rad. Bbt didn't capitalize on that so that should be a huge red flag but corwin did have a reply to somnus that suggested he realized it. Not sure if he realized before or after somnus question but it's easy for him to suggest he did. I think the play here even if you flip bbt red today is nk somnus and let corwin push you to lim me d4. I'll put together a corwin scum case if we reach that point but tell me now Bella, are you convinced in me scum over corwin or are you still on the fence? If convinced, ok no worries, I don't blame you, but please put us out of our misery after you and somnus have had a chance to talk.

I disagree. It only looks like that because you were the one whose vote has been out there, so yes it would mostly clear non-Rad teams. If it had been Bella or I dangling our votes out there, it would have cleared most, if not all of the Rad-Teams.

[Somnus]

What do you want to talk to me about, somnus? Think I'm delaying the inevitable here.

Hadn't fully thought it through, but regardless of what you think of the risks that Rad committed today, everything he is saying here today in Day 3 makes sense, and most of it is objectively true. From his end, the game is solved, and I'm on-board at this point. I'm willing to go as far as to say that from my end, the game is now solved too.

If Rad is scum, he took the absolute dumbest path to win a game that scum was in a very good position to win heading into Day 3. He completely cleared you as town, which is incredibly stupid as scum, considering my skepticism of BlueBlood/Bella. He cleared me of being paired with anyone but himself, and the only reason that team isn't a 100% clear is because I wasn't able to pop in while BlueBlood was at E-1 early in Day 3. Rad/Somnus scum team means I didn't give enough of a shit to coordinate with Rad or show up to hammer the player I've been scum-reading the majority of the game and end a game that I clearly wanted out of for more of it than not.

That makes sense. You understand I feel a bit...rail roaded though? But railroading me is your winning move as town and scum.

I'm not even sure what somnus wants to talk about, so I'm waiting til our times align.

You are I suppose in an unfortunate situation. I can think of more stuff to add to try and convince you later on, but by then I imagine our schedules won't line up due to my weird hours + timezone differences. I can still try to later anyway though. If you go back and look at even just the last 24-48 hours through the lens of Town!Rad, pretty much everything he has said is objectively true. I didn't exactly expect to be lock-towning Rad going into Day 3.

[Somnus]

There's no guarantee on how someone will react to this knowledge regardless of alignment. But we do know that town!bbt places his vote on confirmed scum rad. There's absolutely no reason not to and bbt is not at all afraid to use his most powerful town tool except when there's a major risk. There's no risk here so scum!bbt scum slipped by not following what we know town!bbt should be doing. He's doubling down here still not voting me to attempt to justify his original lack of vote.

This is correct. From the perspective of a Town!BlueBlood (which doesn't exist in this game), he has the equivalent of a cop guilty on Rad at this point. The only scum-teams that could exist to a Town!BlueBlood are Rad/Somnus and Rad/Corwin. And yet, he's pretending that it's a risk for him to vote for Rad at this point. This isn't town.

[Somnus]

Give me like 20 minutes. I'm pretty damn certain of this solve too, but I need to prepare myself for the unlikely scenario that scum!Rad just took the absolute dumbest path to victory here and that I could end up being the donkey that loses the game. I don't think that's what's going to happen though.

[Somnus]

I know it's my vote, but I should probably make sure Bella is ok with me doing so as well.

[Somnus]

Then this "decent scum player" didn't give enough of a shit to bother to coordinate and show up with Rad to hammer you and end what was an absolutely miserable game on Days 1 and 2.

[Somnus]

There's at least 3 people I know of who if they're reading this game, are probably screaming how ridiculously obvious it is that I'm town in this game. Maybe a couple of them will chime in post-game.

[Somnus]

I have two reasons why BlueBlood should always be the vote here today over Corwin:

1. The BlueBlood slot or my slot probably should have been sorted Day 1. There is no excuse that neither was sorted Day 2. None.
2. No offense to Bella whatsoever, but I'm skeptical that she'd be willing to vote for BlueBlood in a 3P eLo. Maybe not so much now, but up until basically today, yes.

[Somnus]

@Bella

My play gained town winning knowledge for me but not you. That's a losing move that I didn't realize when I was making it. I was just seeing town clears happening which should be objectively good for town right? Well it cleared into a scenario where rad is the most unknown to 1 of the remaining towns and gives both scum a way to show why they believe in scum!rad. Bbt didn't capitalize on that so that should be a huge red flag but corwin did have a reply to somnus that suggested he realized it. Not sure if he realized before or after somnus question but it's easy for him to suggest he did. I think the play here even if you flip bbt red today is nk somnus and let corwin push you to lim me d4. I'll put together a corwin scum case if we reach that point but tell me now Bella, are you convinced in me scum over corwin or are you still on the fence? If convinced, ok no worries, I don't blame you, but please put us out of our misery after you and somnus have had a chance to talk.

I disagree. It only looks like that because you were the one whose vote has been out there, so yes it would mostly clear non-Rad teams. If it had been Bella or I dangling our votes out there, it would have cleared most, if not all of the Rad-Teams.

[Somnus]

A lot of logic and reason points to bbt being today's vote. Four things stop me:

Rads earlier shifting read on me
Rads reluctance to vote corwin earlier when it should have been fine from their pov

The fact that rad actually outweighs bbt in My choices

!
The fact that bbt had similar thoughts to me earlier.

But none of these are conclusive. Also, if somnus is scum, then...well done I guess!

In response to the bolded. If you or I had been doing the clearing instead of Rad, it would be you or I that appear in the most possible teams still.

[Somnus]

I feel confident enough in this solve that I'm willing to vote right now, but without Corwin around to clear Rad/Corwin, I don't know that it matters.

[Somnus]

Town!Corwin could literally have the game solved right now, and all it would take is the same “risk” that he was willing to do right off the bat to start Day 3. The only way he loses is if Somnus gave zero fucks about coordinating with a scum!Rad and didn’t bother to end a game I clearly wanted out of most of Day 1 and Day 2. A Corwin vote on BBT (which would just be bussing anyway) gives him the exact solve of BlueBlood/Rad. Too risky though, apparently.

[Somnus]

Another fun one: Somnus and Bella both putting their votes on BlueBlood (after Rad has unvoted) and Rad checking in, literally solves the game and puts it into auto. Again, only risk is if the exact team is Somnus/Rad and I didn't bother to end this 3 days ago.

[Somnus]

Actually, I guess that 2nd one would lose to a Rad/Corwin if Corwin weren't MIA.

[Somnus]

If you and I are the scum team, we're not winning a scummy award anytime soon.

[Somnus]

Another fun one: Somnus and Bella both putting their votes on BlueBlood (after Rad has unvoted) and Rad checking in, literally solves the game and puts it into auto. Again, only risk is if the exact team is Somnus/Rad and I didn't bother to end this 3 days ago.

I did initially overlook that town would lose to a Rad/Corwin team with this one, Bella.

[Somnus]

We could hammer test and risk losing to a scum!Rad but put the game into auto-win if Rad is town, or we could do the less risky thing and vote off BlueBlood today and presumably go to a Day 4 of Bella, Rad, Corwin.

I don't think Rad is scum with everything that has transpired during Day 3, and the only reason he's still in the most non-cleared teams is because his vote cleared other teams (especially you and I) and not himself.

[Somnus]

Rad/BlueBlood isn't technically clear either. I'm pretty certain of his solve though. Pretty much everything Rad has said here in Day 3 has been verifiably/objectively true. If he took the dumbest path to victory as mafia and completely cleared you and nearly completely cleared me (I would be if I had been around at start of Day 3), then GG I guess?

[Somnus]

I don't know. What are your thoughts?

[Somnus]

My bad

There was only so many little non-game-advancing shots taken at me from several people throughout Days 1 and 2 where I figured I might as well get my one dig-post in at the people who did so back on Day 2 when I thought I was going to be free from this disaster.

I was only specifically referring to Newbie 2094. You all obviously had a good game in Newbie 2091. I haven't read any other games of yours start to finish. For whatever it's worth, if Rad is scum here, I come away from this game with an absolutely terrible performance.

[Somnus]

Does it still make more sense to vote corwin?

I mean, if the solve is literally BlueBlood/Corwin like Town!Rad would know with 100% certainty and I'm pretty sure it's the solve as well, it doesn't

really

matter unless you're going to side with BlueBlood on Day 4.

[Somnus]

Like, assuming we flip scum!BlueBlood today, one of us is dying tonight, and it's probably me because I'm a lot more certain of the solve than you are. You'd be in a 3P eLo with Rad and Corwin. But whichever of you or I is alive on Day 4 is literally confirmed town.

[Somnus]

To everyone else, flip one of me, BlueBlood, or Rad today. Obviously, my preference isn't myself, but it would at least break this game the fuck open and make the solve easier.

Imagine how I'm going to feel if I lose to this team

[Somnus]

What's the plan then on Day 4 for you assuming that does in fact flip red like it should? I obviously am not being brought to Day 4 in that scenario (or pretty much any realistic scenario).

[Somnus]

And I'd still want to talk this over with Rad at some point later today as well, so I'm not gonna vote right here and right now. Going to bed soon anyway.

[Somnus]

From your POV, yes it does make sense. Here are the teams clear to everyone:

Bella - Somnus

Bella - Rad

Bella - Corwin

Bella - BlueBlood

Somnus - BlueBlood

Somnus - Corwin

Rad - Somnus
Rad - Corwin
Rad - BlueBlood
Corwin - BlueBlood

Like I said, because of Rad's gamble, I'd be confirmed town right now as well if I had checked on at the start of Day 3, but it is what it is. Rad/Somnus wouldn't be possible from your POV anymore, but that's on me.

Doing this from memory, but from your POV, the possible teams are:

Rad/Somnus
BlueBlood/Corwin
BlueBlood/Rad
Corwin/Rad.

And again, for whatever it's worth, the reason Rad appears in the last amount of cleared teams is because he's the one who dangled his vote out there and completely cleared you as town, and had it not been for my late start to Day 3, Rad/Somnus would be clear and I'd be confirmed town as well, making it so that Rad, Corwin, and BlueBlood all appear in 2 out of 3 possible teams, not only from your POV, but from everyone's POV.

So yes, from your POV, what you're saying does make sense. We'll have to both talk it over with Rad sometime today though. It's nearly 3 AM here.

[Somnus]

Just realized that the list of teams not clear to you are the same as the teams not clear to everyone. Kinda makes sense since you're confirmed town. But I digress.

[Somnus]

And again, for whatever it's worth, the reason Rad appears in the

least

amount

Clearly need to sleep

[Somnus]

Will be back in the evening to give likely final thoughts on Day 3.

[Somnus]

No more hammer-testing needed. Let's just go with one of them and end Day 3 today. On the surface, it looks like they've both thrown in the towel without actually officially doing so. I'm fully aware that if we correctly flip one, this all could have been a ploy, but I don't think it matters at this point. Whichever alignment Rad is on has effectively already won the game, so congrats either way.

If town lost this game, it was pretty much lost on Day 1. I think it's probably safe to say that we're in C1 at this point, which means we effectively entered 5:2 mountainous starting Day 2. If either BlueBlood or Corwin are town, they just straight-up quit. My ability to create influence in this game was extremely limited. Every time I town-read someone, they died.

Alright. Way too much has happened since I was on yesterday for me to comment on individually.

I'm not in favor of the Vasex wagon at this point. Once you look past some of the early stuff and the avatar copying and all (which I did initially laugh at, but it is kind of annoying), the guy has probably put more effort into solving than anyone in this game. Calling everyone who votes for him is silly though.

Spartan was also my top town-read on Day 1.

I'm not voting Cheapside Day 3 if I'm in this game. Not saying this is lock-town (no one has had a particularly townie game, unfortunately, and we now know that several townies have very quickly jumped on any town elimination wagon as long as it wasn't themselves), but this slot and Corwin still seem like they're being setup to be the eLo vote. But again, the lack of votes towards this slot by the people scum-reading it is rather weird.

Besides Cheapside, Whiskey was my next highest town-read on Day 2.

I've done what I can do. Not to be unpleasant, but I meant what I said here:

-BlueBlood: Flip this slot tomorrow after I flip green. This shouldn't even be debatable after all of the flipped town wagons he's been on and pushed, every conversation that he has derailed between other people and tried to shut down the flow of information, quick-hammering the cop with 5 days left in Day 1, the so-far two confirmed dead townies (and soon to be 3) that have massively scum-read him and are coincidentally the first 3 people in the game to die, trying to eliminate a replace-in literally 7 posts after they joined just days after the start of the game, and the list goes on and on and on.

Yes, it's still a quick hammer. Just because you claimed intent and let that ride for maybe an hour, and literally hammered Vasex in a reactionary manner in literally the same minute that he said "f u" to you, it's still a quick-hammer. I was away for most of the weekend for reasons I had explained, and we had just had a player replace in what like...24 hours ago? Maybe less? I don't even remember. If NewD3 had a vigilante, I would have shot this slot, no questions asked on Night 1, and even if he flipped town, proudly claimed the shot at the start of Day 2. Town STILL probably would have been better off. If this slot is town, it has been by far the most disruptive, destructive, and anti-town player in the game, and no one on town who votes him out on Day 3 and loses in eLo should feel even remotely bad about the decision if this is somehow green. I said it before and I'll say it again: If this slot is green, we were completely and utterly fucked the second he replaced in.

If BlueBlood flips town, we were fucked as soon as he replaced in. Literally nothing he has done in this game has benefited town in any way, shape, or form, and I can take solace in the fact that at the very least, I did everything I could to at least have the rest of town sort this slot well before today.

Let's just end Day 3, and hopefully not the game. And if it does somehow end the game, so be it. We're free. I'll be a salty pickle that Rad took the most ridiculous, dumbest, unnecessary path to victory as mafia when none of this was needed, but GG either way if he somehow is.

Bella, who should I vote for out of Corwin and BlueBlood?

[Somnus]

Bella can choose when she’s on again and I’ll go with either of the two. And then it’s up to her if she wants to hammer or if she wants me to. She’s the only 100% confirmed town, so that seems fair.

[Somnus]

Re-reading some stuff. Thought this was funny.

7 players without me and killed one. You'll lost 2 players for each phase of day/night cycle. 7, 5, 3. you have right only to make 1 mistake. if you do more, you will lose this game. so only 1 towny elim is allowed till the end.
if i need to decide right now with a gun to my head,

i would elim these three slots: CHEAPSIDE, bbt, corwin

but u will have more info. use logics, not shitty reasons, logics, explain to yourself in words WHY, WHY AND WHY everything in the game

[Somnus]

Yes, but I imagine Rad is sleeping. Could confirm I’m town if he were still on BlueBlood.

[Somnus]

Hello, Forum dot Mafiascum dot net. My name is Town!Somnus. Nice to meet you.

Damn. I've been waiting 5 and a half months to say that. Let me just go ahead and take out these contact lenses.



There we go.

Bella - Somnus

Bella - Rad

Bella - Corwin

Bella - BlueBlood

Somnus - BlueBlood

Somnus - Corwin

Rad - Somnus

<======= You are here
BlueBlood - Rad
BlueBlood - Corwin
Rad - Corwin

[Somnus]

You could have confirmed you were town if you did that to corwin instead, since I was already on him... Anyway, are we flipping bbt then? I thought we were done with confirms. Both scum are clearly done with this game. Maybe one comes to life in d4 but as you can tell they seem absolutely done with d3

Yeah I know. I didn't want to put the onus on Bella to have to switch to Corwin on the spot and risking me hammering in a Somnus/Rad team. I think this is the flip later today if no objections.

[Somnus]

This is awkward. Town!BlueBlood would now know that the exact solve is Rad/Corwin and Town!Corwin would now know that the exact solve is Rad/BlueBlood.

[Somnus]

You around, Bella? If not I’ll check in later today.

[Somnus]

I don’t think that’ll be necessary. I think we’re all pretty on-board with this today. Figured I’d give Bella a chance to check in and see for sure that Somnus/Rad isn’t the team and I’m confirmed town. I don’t see any reason to swerve over to Corwin. Enjoy the concert.

[Somnus]

If I ever screw up a game that badly as scum like you and I would have had to do Day 3 in a Somnus/Rad team, I’m throwing my PC out the window and never playing again.

[Somnus]

At this point, if you went through all of these hoops to win as scum, I can’t even be mad. Props either way. Corwin or a potentially vacant slot has to be the Day 4 vote, and I’m pretty sure it’s going to be Bella around to finish it and not me.

[Somnus]

It was a decent theory, I’ll give you that.