Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townbinning everyone with a number above 100

we are masons as far as I am concerned.

if this turns out to be tragically wrong later it's not my fault

I agree titus probably town, less convinced about anyone else in that set

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a cool thought experiment I want to try.

Let's all write down which three numbers we would submit if we were running a scum team.

I will explain after everyone writes down their numbers how this will help us.

I will go first.

1, 3, 13

7, 7, 4

[Gamma Emerald]

this chart is stolen shamelessly from Andante in the last PYP:

825 should be added to that

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townbinning everyone with a number above 100

we are masons as far as I am concerned.

if this turns out to be tragically wrong later it's not my fault

I agree titus probably town, less convinced about anyone else in that set

Why are you saying this? You ought to be aware of the last game.

think you'd pick something different as part of a scumteam

[Gamma Emerald]

8, 8, 512

VOTE: Klick
Your lip service shall be punished.

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a cool thought experiment I want to try.

Let's all write down which three numbers we would submit if we were running a scum team.

I will explain after everyone writes down their numbers how this will help us.

I will go first.

1, 3, 13

I would literally ask the scumpartners to pick for me because I'm sure someone else besides me has a winning strat

This is the best non-answer I’ve seen out of the responses, personally

[Gamma Emerald]

I just realized my own guess doesnt work because I just wrote down some numbers I'd pick instead of picking which ones are actually valid in the game :>

I would pick 2 - 8 - 14

What’s the difference?

[Gamma Emerald]

I decided to do a quick check and it was SIMYK who picked 413 that one time
I’m gonna tease him about that a lil if I see him once more
Kinda miss him

[Gamma Emerald]

I just realized my own guess doesnt work because I just wrote down some numbers I'd pick instead of picking which ones are actually valid in the game :>

I would pick 2 - 8 - 14

What’s the difference?

2-8-14 are numbers that were picked in this game, my previous numbers were not.

Why change to numbers that were picked? I don’t think anyone else submitted like that and you’re the one running the exercise. You’re the one making the rules!

[Gamma Emerald]

Pagetop snipe

[Gamma Emerald]

That limits thought process tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I’m not changing my response to go with the numbers that were actually submitted this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Ausuka, what’s your pfp supposed to be?

[Gamma Emerald]

It looks like a Danganronpa character lol
Also what is this “Witch’s Heart”?

[Gamma Emerald]

Is it on Steam

[Gamma Emerald]

i think it is fairly silly to believe scum decided to coordinate picking big numbers

I think it’s a scientifically viable theory

[Gamma Emerald]

i think it is fairly silly to believe scum decided to coordinate picking big numbers

I think it’s a scientifically viable theory

The theory that Aus seems to be espousing is that 3/4 scum picked large numbers and I as scum decided to voluntarily propose townbinning my scum team + me on the basis of "large numbers town".

I think it's fairly wild and incredibly unlikely for me as scum to do and I have difficulty understanding why someone would believe this is an actual thing that is likely to happen.

If I were to call you scum it wouldn’t be for that
But like, it’s been proven that scum have gambitted on high numbers before
So what make you think a high number is more likely town?

[Gamma Emerald]

If people won't treat me in basic good faith then I don't really feel any obligation to explain myself.

The answer I gave was the best-faith answer I could give. If I gave numbers, they'd be in bad faith.

I suspect others who gave non-answers feel similarly.

ok I think that's fine if everybody doesn't want to do the exercise I can just forget about it - but I don't owe anyone a long written out explanation if they won't write down three numbers, that's just not how the world works.

Does your exercise seriously require a full response from everyone?

[Gamma Emerald]

Some responses are better than others
StD’s response is very clearly a “I would not be in the described position” answer
Meanwhile I’m pretty sure Klick saw the ongoing discussion and made a joke response based on that

[Gamma Emerald]

I know from exp there’s always going to be at least a few detractors to any opening exercise
So like, why even bother trying when you’re gonna get upset and go “I’m taking my ball and leaving!” upon seeing that resistance?

[Gamma Emerald]

i have to say this out loud but i want to ask other people what they feel about ari's position because right now all im seeing is manipulative scum

I can see Ari doing the rqs thing as either alignment I think? I wouldn't do the RQS thing in the first place but like, if I did I probably wouldn't pursue it if I felt like people weren't playing along. I don't think it's gross for you to question it though

I suck at posting

the thing that baffles me is the negative response and refusal to provide results as a reaction to people not giving proper answers
I don't see it as a directly scum-indicative reaction rn but it's a bit of a sign she hasn't really attempted anything like it before

[Gamma Emerald]

what am I supposed to pursue

most people said no

they didn't say no, they said it was context-dependent
make them use an arbitrary context and give numbers based on that

[Gamma Emerald]

Thought 1: I would like Dwlee to take some stances on some people.

I was thinking this earlier, he had a scummy pop-in but I wanted to see if he would start scumhunting on his own if he was left alone

Not scumreading implosion anymore

dwlee goes by they/them

[Gamma Emerald]

Thought 1: I would like Dwlee to take some stances on some people.

I was thinking this earlier, he had a scummy pop-in but I wanted to see if he would start scumhunting on his own if he was left alone

Not scumreading implosion anymore

*They sorry I should be much better about this

[Gamma Emerald]

I like that Gamma is immediately trying to make sense of the game.

I like this read from HEM
so I probably won't be voting him rn

I do think his ari push is crossing a line tho

[Gamma Emerald]

he has certain expectations of me so I think that's a sign he's actively measuring me against those

[Gamma Emerald]

I do not have the answer.

1. it's not a deathtunnel
2. the game was focused on your experiment, it wasn't possible for me to get an ai read or associative read because the discussion was so sterile

Okay this is starting to feel like BS

[Gamma Emerald]

hem, do you have any reads currently other than aristeia-scum and gamma-town (and any others I may have missed in a brief iso-skim)?

And do you make anything of the new people jumping on your wagon?

im not in a clear headspace right now. instinctively, i feel that the scum team just ganged up on me here. but i know better than that.

get well soon

[Gamma Emerald]

this is what happened during the number experiment:

w i l d
How is STD’s post less sensible than implo/Titus? I’m like 99% sure he was saying “I’m not skilled at mech so there is little chance I would be running a scum team”
Also my response was not a joke

[Gamma Emerald]

this is what happened during the number experiment:

not sure why i didn't get "sensible dodge" but that's okay

do you think my dodging was suspicious or honest?

mindmeld

[Gamma Emerald]

@Bella

are you satisfied with your vote currently?

[Gamma Emerald]

@dwlee

why do you feel disengaged this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Aus

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Klick is playing basically exactly how he did in cyrus62’s white flag game
He’s probably scum based on that

[Gamma Emerald]

It means you should vote Klick

[Gamma Emerald]

It means you should vote Klick

If you vote hem and they flip and I'm wrong, you get my vote tmo Gamma.

Why should I vote HEM?

[Gamma Emerald]

It means you should vote Klick

If you vote hem and they flip and I'm wrong, you get my vote tmo Gamma.

Why should I vote HEM?

He's shopping for a counter when he's the top.

He also TR me so it makes sense he’s willing to hear me out

[Gamma Emerald]

ari is already my counter, titus

Right, which makes me suspect it's overloaded if you get on.

Overloaded how?
I’m TR Ausuka rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like Dwlee wagon might be pure tbh

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll get on that
btw I'm pretty sure u actually were in the game I mentioned

[Gamma Emerald]

Subject: White flag #824 game over

I think I wanna try something a bit different this game. During the first couple days of D1, I want everyone to pick out two people. For the rest of D1, you must treat them as hard town, working with them to try and form reads, push scum, and solve the game. I think in a setup like this, a tactic like what I’m suggesting could bear some tasty fruit.

I already have a my two picks kinda set in my head and I’d rather people make selections before interactions start to really get going, so to start us off I’m picking Infinity324 and MURDERCAT.

Subject: White flag #824 game over

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

The first two people to join me here will be hard town for the rest of D1

in the WF game I mentioned, I tried an alternative opening, like ari did here. Klick immediately acted subversive with it, going after me iirc for the exercise, and saying that his picks were based on who would vote me with him.
Here Klick specifically submitted "8, 8, 512" after some discussion about powers of 2 being noteworthy. I think that was a reactive and subversive response.

[Gamma Emerald]

I TRed Klick pretty confidently in the game I linked :/

[Gamma Emerald]

Klick also didn't rlly do a whole lot in the linked game before flaking
he seems to be on the same path this game

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't especially mind a townread on dwlee for ~reasons~ at this point tbh. I don't agree with it obviously but I think they have enough content to be townread. Wouldn't mind an elaboration of course but I don't see it as scummy per se.

some of this feels unnecessary

[Gamma Emerald]

what do you think about HQ coming in to kind of soflty defend dwlee only

this question is open to anyone

I want more from HQ in general rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not inclined to vote any repeat today.

why?

[Gamma Emerald]

i think i like titus for town

I'm tepid on her but a HEM scum flip would make me feel better

[Gamma Emerald]

i need a fucking job

anyone hiring?

I am

You can start by trimming the hedges

My rate is $50 an hour

Alright cool

Will that interfere with hours from your other job? Your resume says you're currently "pushing off-wagon".

Roden + StD both town

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmmm there’s something weird going on with the HEM wagon then

Can you detail some of that Ari?

What makes you say this?

[Gamma Emerald]

vote count 1.06

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-14 01:30:00).

yeet

humaneatingmonkey [3]:

Aristeia, Dwlee99, Titus

Dwlee99 [3]:

Ausuka, Save The Dragons, implosion

Aristeia [2]:

humaneatingmonkey, Bellaphant

Klick [2]:

Gamma Emerald, Roden

not voting [4]:

Harley Quinn, Malakittens, Enchant, Klick

mod notes

~ humaneatingmonkey v/la wednesday to friday.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

I am running into the issue of if HEM is scum then the majority/all of myself Ari and Dwlee are probably town

If HEM is town this game is likely scum captured to borrow Titus’s phrasing.

So you think Ari + Dwlee are town?

[Gamma Emerald]

Getting bad vibes from mathblade

Slight heartburn from ari

Good vibes from dwlee and HQ

I agree on HQ

[Gamma Emerald]

Why say the game is scum captured then?

[Gamma Emerald]

On one of my outed alts I tend to practice less precise grammar, I use less caps and less punctuation, I also go for a kinda chill good-guy vibe, I would put it
So the question is do you do any of that? From my perception I don’t believe you do but maybe I am unaware of something.

[Gamma Emerald]

VLA for prolly a week, my phone just went to shit

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma is asking her questions because she is playing differently from how she normally plays on her other accounts.

He is not asking for her main, he's asking if she's playing differently for a reason

I that’s not quite it
I don’t know how or why Roden says there’s a difference here, once HQ started providing content it felt like business as usual
I was just trying to clarify Roden’s meaning. But I don’t have full confidence that there isn’t some minute aspect that differs that I’ve never noticed.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Harley:

Random question. Do you purposely play different on this account? Not going to out who you are btw, I'm just wondering.

In what respect? Activity isn’t ai for me.

Nah I'm not referring to activity. Some people have certain vibes or attitudes they try to stick to when using certain accounts. Like some people have "serious", "confident", or "low effort" playstyles for designated accounts. Is "Harley Quinn" meant to be an account like that, or do you more or less play the same regardless of what you log into?

Many factors influence my play. Rl, number of games I’m in, interest, investment, etc. In an extremely mech heavy game, I can get totally lost for example. But I still don’t know what you’re referring to if not my activity?

I think Gamma describes what I mean a bit better here:

On one of my outed alts I tend to practice less precise grammar, I use less caps and less punctuation, I also go for a kinda chill good-guy vibe, I would put it
So the question is do you do any of that? From my perception I don’t believe you do but maybe I am unaware of something.

The reason I'm asking is because you seem pretty chill and observant this game. I was curious if it's just something you try to emphasize more on this account, or if you're just in a good head space right now.

This explains things a little better and my assessment would be that HQ is probably in a better headspace
I may be forgetting some but in quite a few games HQ has been in, she’s had to deal with rather compromised positions

[Gamma Emerald]

Gotcha, assuming good head space then.

Yeah Roden is town

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma is asking her questions because she is playing differently from how she normally plays on her other accounts.

He is not asking for her main, he's asking if she's playing differently for a reason

I that’s not quite it
I don’t know how or why Roden says there’s a difference here, once HQ started providing content it felt like business as usual
I was just trying to clarify Roden’s meaning. But I don’t have full confidence that there isn’t some minute aspect that differs that I’ve never noticed.

I think she is a lot less active than her townself but the game has barely started so it will be fairly obvious later down the line.

I was in a recent game offsite, where I didn’t make a single post d1, barely posted d2, posted little on d3 but suddenly became active on d4 and yes, I was town in that. Activity is ai for me.

wut

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma is asking her questions because she is playing differently from how she normally plays on her other accounts.

He is not asking for her main, he's asking if she's playing differently for a reason

I that’s not quite it
I don’t know how or why Roden says there’s a difference here, once HQ started providing content it felt like business as usual
I was just trying to clarify Roden’s meaning. But I don’t have full confidence that there isn’t some minute aspect that differs that I’ve never noticed.

I think she is a lot less active than her townself but the game has barely started so it will be fairly obvious later down the line.

I was in a recent game offsite, where I didn’t make a single post d1, barely posted d2, posted little on d3 but suddenly became active on d4 and yes, I was town in that. Activity is ai for me.

wut

???

It’s true, I nearly got replaced twice.

You seem to be saying you’d be more active as scum? Or is it specifically that the low presence is a towntell?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townbinning everyone with a number above 100

we are masons as far as I am concerned.

if this turns out to be tragically wrong later it's not my fault

I agree titus probably town, less convinced about anyone else in that set

I want to see more from her but imho this is more scum indicative or NAI than town

Titus has been hella busy. I think whatever her alignment she’d want the vanilla version to avoid possibly screwing over whatever team she is on.

How do you read Titus’ play rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

Getting bad vibes from mathblade

Slight heartburn from ari

Good vibes from dwlee and HQ

Interesting. Why on the others?

For the me I am going to assume that’s SOP considering how many times I have smoked you as scum before.

SOP?

Standard Operating Procedure

is mathblade TMIing STD!town in this post?

The answer to that is no.

You’re more than welcome to suggest that though to help sort me.

You’ll find that fundamentally wrong but part of finding scum is suggesting a hypothesis then falsifying it so… *shrug*

I don't like this wording

[Gamma Emerald]

Feel better HEM.

No on Dwlee. Roden looks bad and I doubt scum match each other.

why does roden look bad
I'm starting to get worried about you because our thought processes feel out of sync

[Gamma Emerald]

The other game I've played with Enchant, at least that I remember, was a game where they replaced in on d2-3ish and got like, immediately universally townread as town when their slot's previous occupant was contentious. So I know Enchant is capable of actually interacting with the gamestate as town. I'm sure reading them isn't as simple as "are they literally playing the game of mafia" but well, in this game their only content now is an explanationless vote on a person who just had 2 people unvote them. So.

Which game is this?

[Gamma Emerald]

My elim pool is really boring: mala, Roden, maybe gamma, maybe STD, maybe enchant (I get what you are saying now) maybe dweelee. Actually maybe having no feelings about hem is a red flag.

P-edit I assume I'm going to wake up to 20 pages again, so no hurry

that's not boring
tbh I don't like it

[Gamma Emerald]

normally I mesh rlly well with town!Titus
I'm not getting that feeling rn, so I'm concerned
I felt similar in mini 2272

[Gamma Emerald]

you accused std of scumreading you because you smoked him too many times as scum

the subtext is that he's town.

I don't think math addressed this yet, I'd like if he would

[Gamma Emerald]

From all my wagon, i only got actual heat from ari so i might belueve that shes the least likely to be scum here cause ive been mulling over that she might be genuine

I also believe that ari jumped on me super strongly in a way that makes me think she was misrepping me and trying to discredit me

???
these thoughts seem at odds

[Gamma Emerald]

Gosh golly this is a bad post. Town does not say "This future behavior: if this is what you see in the future, push the people who do it" because scum will just... not do that if they genuinely think it's going to get them caught.

it's not smart to say but why does town never say it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Math HEM Mala thoughts? Maybe Math sub with Roden

for the scum team? maybe

[Gamma Emerald]

An unordered smattering of thoughts.

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

2) StD, Aristeia, softly mathblade but don't push me on it because I have no actual reason (and I'm open to hearing arguments from StD but I don't right now see it), and HQ (but not as strongly as some people have been saying) are recently townish.

3) I'm not wed to the hem wagon. But I do like it. I think hem's behavior makes quite a lot of sense as scum; their play feels much more aesthetic than substantive. Asking people what they think of things, but not until recently really starting to take any real stances on their wagon; I think town in hem's position is like, a little caught between a rock and a hard place because no one was biting on the aristeia suspicion. But even so the play around her feels really awkward and almost unmotivated - like he never really had all that much impetus for people to vote for aristeia, just for them to be able to call her scum and to defend themself. Disclaimer in that I didn't really re-read their ISO before typing this so maybe it's bunk but yeah.

4) The reason I'm not wed to the hem wagon is that there's an unusually large number of people that I feel are pretty good potential scum. I see lots of potential in Roden, Dwlee, Enchant to be scum, and there's others who I don't have a bead on like Mala and Bellaphant and maybe Titus who I wouldn't be opposed to pressuring. But saying the wagon "stalled out" as an L-2 wagon this early in the game feels... wrong.

I believe I'm 5th in the draft, and I'm pretty sure about that

[Gamma Emerald]

From all my wagon, i only got actual heat from ari so i might belueve that shes the least likely to be scum here cause ive been mulling over that she might be genuine

I also believe that ari jumped on me super strongly in a way that makes me think she was misrepping me and trying to discredit me

???
these thoughts seem at odds

Idk, I contradict myself a lot but he mentioned the word “misrep” so idk?

Contradicting myself is town indicative for me because it means I’m constantly questioning things but that’s me. For a player like Titus otoh, it could be a scumtell.

why bring up Titus? this was about HEM, and maybe indirectly about Ari

[Gamma Emerald]

@Math, it's the false hypothesis comment that irks me

That’s literally how science works.

You build a hypothesis and test it.

StD has a hypothesis I am scum.

I know it’s false but unless I allow him to test it then it becomes extremely antitown.

I build hypothesis and test them.

My StD hypothesis was falsified so I think StD is town.

I had a similar hypothesis with you when I was gunsmith.

why do you use the word falsified
that implies intentional action

[Gamma Emerald]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

Then why shop 6 alternatives?

how is what implo did shopping?

[Gamma Emerald]

1) The more time passes, the more I don't really buy that Enchant should be 100% no-holds-barred off the table today. There's no universe in which scum are gonna NK them over e.g. HQ and Gamma, who are 2nd and 3rd in the draft and widely townread. They are Simply Not Playing The Game. They're going to continue not playing the game on future days. And yes, they're a guaranteed PR... which includes as scum. Enchant could be a scum 1-shot vig or 2-shot PGO, among other dangerous roles. Shouldn't whether or not they're a good elimination depend at least a little bit on whether or not they're scummy? And right now they're playing exactly the same game (read: non-game) they played in chromavalon.

the way I think about Enchant is as follows[do not respond to this in any way that outs your role pls]

Even if Enchant is scum, they should be Ascetic Cop because denying town the most powerful TPR is much stronger than gaining an extra kill via say 1 shot vig imo.

Let's say in both worlds Enchant is an Ascetic Cop because it is the strongest TPR [this is an assumption]

Scum are obligated to kill Enchant rather than let Enchant get a bunch of results. If scum leave him alive for 2 nights and we paranoia lim him on day 3, he will out 2 results which is basically like giving us 2 masons or better if he finds scum.

as for PGO being a threat - um I don't really think it makes any sense for any town role to target enchant ever - if they r scum, they will be outted by the virtue of not dying. If they are town, um whats the point of targetting them?

I do agree he is quite scummy by not playing but I've seen him not play as town b4 so it's kind of like ~shrug~. If he's scum he will get outted anyway by virtue of living too long.

scum could also take roleblocker which iirc is on the same card as ascetic cop
also, enchant took neighborizer last time I saw him play this setup (as scum), so I wouldn't bet on him taking ascetic cop this game as either alignment, he seems to take what he likes vs. what is best

[Gamma Emerald]

I am okay with an HEM wagon and am in fact on the wagon

You seem ready to jump ship the moment someone else starts getting pressured though.

I am! It's early in the day and I don't see why I should bind myself to a wagon I like right now.

I really just don't view the game of mafia the same way Titus does where there's some grand explanation of things; I am voting HEM because I want to vote HEM right now and wouldn't mind if the wagon went through, and there's lots of other players that I think are also good lims or who are low-info slots that could use more info before d1 ends.

okay I see things Titus' way a little more after this

[Gamma Emerald]

bulletproof is the thing on the other side of ascetic cop, so adjust 1011 to say that instead of roleblocker

[Gamma Emerald]

I think picking ascetic cop is much stronger than picking a jailkeeper/roleblocker type role because ascetic cop can't be blocked in the first place and by picking it you are essentially permanently blocking the cop.

Absolutely.

Mafia players don't always play optimally.

Again, this isn't really

important

, I'm just annoyed that we're basically Contractually Obligated to let Enchant not-play-the-game for 2-3 days.

If someone else was playing like Enchant has this game with top pick, would you have the same attitude towards them?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald << Town I think? More active than most scum games

what is your meta basis for this? I'm not always active as scum but I'd say in the early game I can be pretty active as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

convince one person your mech interpretation is right and my mech interpretation is wrong and I will continue this conversation with you. Otherwise I am just going to assume you are wrong and wasting my time.

I think you both raise valid points
your argument makes sense because Bee in the last run I was in had top pick as scum and we voted her out D5 (I think) because she hadn't been killed yet despite her ascetic cop claim

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald << Town I think? More active than most scum games

what is your meta basis for this? I'm not always active as scum but I'd say in the early game I can be pretty active as scum

I can’t think of a specific game you just seem quieter as scum.

if it's vibe-based that's understandable
but by raw postcount I can be just as active if not more as scum D1.

[Gamma Emerald]

convince one person your mech interpretation is right and my mech interpretation is wrong and I will continue this conversation with you. Otherwise I am just going to assume you are wrong and wasting my time.

I think you both raise valid points
your argument makes sense because Bee in the last run I was in had top pick as scum and we voted her out D5 (I think) because she hadn't been killed yet despite her ascetic cop claim

forgot the other part of this
I think mathblade's question of whether this would extend to any other early picks does make sense, just as a general question. Why does ONLY the top picker get expect to get killed?

[Gamma Emerald]

I think picking ascetic cop is much stronger than picking a jailkeeper/roleblocker type role because ascetic cop can't be blocked in the first place and by picking it you are essentially permanently blocking the cop.

Absolutely.

Mafia players don't always play optimally.

Again, this isn't really

important

, I'm just annoyed that we're basically Contractually Obligated to let Enchant not-play-the-game for 2-3 days.

Don’t get me wrong, Implosion gives me scum pings

But you’ve already been told off by me and implosion

So *shrug*

Who do you scumread besides HEM?

yeah I don't think I like that post by implo

[Gamma Emerald]

what are you even arguing with me for

do you want to kill enchant today?

I am arguing with you for wifom reasons (assuming Enchant is town)

1) If you’re right and scum agrees and Enchant is the town cop bad for us
2) If you’re right and scum agrees and Enchant is not the town cop and scum shoot there good for us
3) If I am right and scum agrees and Enchant is the town cop hood for us as we get a check
4) If I am right and scum agrees and Enchant is not the cop then we buy time for him to do what he does

Funneling the scum kill to Enchant when he could be a top tier PR is bad

If Enchant is scum this is all fundamentally a waste of time

So for the sake of town you’re wrong

okay yeah I see what Ari is saying
Ari isn't actually funneling scum anywhere, at least from her pov

[Gamma Emerald]

you think scum me is trying to get my scum team to shoot enchant!town cop by

talking about it in the thread

and therefore I'm bad?

like what even is your reasoning here?

I am saying in the case you’re scum Enchant is town then it’s spam to avoid reads as you’ve made up your mind you’re shooting there.
In the case you’re scum and Enchant is scum you’re setting up a gambit.
In the case you’re town and Enchant is scum then you accomplish nothing with this mechanics shenanigans as Enchant doesn’t have a single vote on them
In the case you’re town and Enchant is town then this is just begging scum to shoot Enchant

Nothing good comes from this

you realize Ari is just saying this for the future right? Not suggesting any action now?

[Gamma Emerald]

If someone else was playing like Enchant has this game with top pick, would you have the same attitude towards them?

I'd still be annoyed but probably not as annoyed and I wouldn't be calling it scummy.

the thing is low presence is pretty regular PR play I would think
so Enchant doing it shouldn't be such a red flag

[Gamma Emerald]

i am like, the consummate terrible-at-deciding-things and bad-at-getting-lasting-scumreads player.

I thought that was S_S

[Gamma Emerald]

And Ari isn’t that bad as town. You’re just not

you've never seen me have wrong reads as town?

Nope. Almost every game I am in if not every you’ve been right on me.

You’ve been annoyed by me sure, but you’ve always properly read me as town annoying.

this has me on yellow alert
I immensely dislike this sort of BoP read, and feel like it comes from scum more often than town

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi I just wanted to say that the reason I have been inactive since math replaced in is because he replaced in at 1am??? What do you want from me

Also I'm reluctant to talk too much about PRs but I will say I agree with implosion on pretty much everything and also the best way to do mechanics in this setup is to look at what players actually did in previous runs instead of trying to like theoretically predict it imo

I am also thinking town HEM currently, I remember really liking STD's posting, Roden feels bleh to me but it's awkward to push both Roden and Dwlee at the same time because they're probably not scum together

I am confused by people doing associative VCA in the middle of d1 (Titus and mathblade iirc) I assume this is a playstyle thing from how no one else commented on it though, so

Will have more to say later after my exam

Good luck on the exam!

Thanks! It's a maths exam, seems like it would be your forte, unfortunately it's not mine

Math is just a language.

Moon logic worlds
Std/Ausuaka/Ari

Std/Enchant/Ari

Day play worlds
Asuaka/Enchant/Bellaphant

Asuaka/Ari/Bellaphant

Some mix thereof broad spec

Yes Asuaka you have a scum ping because you’re nice because people aren’t usually nice

bruh

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel stronger about HEM flipping scum and if HEM flips town your scum equity goes down by a lot so it makes literally no sense for me to try to flip you today.

Cool.

I’d be very very surprised if HEM flips wolf here

Dude is extremely good at destroying his wagons

Eerily good.

Like I

really

doubt he’s scum.

ehhh idk about this hem meta

[Gamma Emerald]

Damn that's the first time I've ever been scumread for being bad at maths

huh?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not saying I can't be wrong.

I think I'm right.

I have all these reasons why I think I'm right.

If you have a better lead somewhere else then make the case.

if you think my case is wrong because of _____ reason then state the reason.

but like you coming and going HEM is town because "gut" literally is meaningless to me.

And doing that with scum you (or town you who has demonstrated that you don’t want to listen) tonight is just going to create more bloat.

Good night

nice dodge

[Gamma Emerald]

Aye, purge time.

VOTE: Aris

bad vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Roden still has no drive to solve. HEM should be the lim.

this feels patently false

[Gamma Emerald]

How do you have 3 associative so confidently this early in the game?

He's shopping.

You're literally calling the wagon dying when it very much is not! One person unvoted, and she said she unvoted because she wanted to take a break from the game... not because she thinks HEM is town.

don't think I've seen implosion get this emphatic
anyone else got an example of this somewhere?

[Gamma Emerald]

you accused std of scumreading you because you smoked him too many times as scum

the subtext is that he's town.

I don't think math addressed this yet, I'd like if he would

I did? Or if I follow I don’t know what you’re asking so can’t address it?

I think it’s SOP for StD?

why do you not think StD could be using you as a scapegoat or smth?

[Gamma Emerald]

normally I mesh rlly well with town!Titus
I'm not getting that feeling rn, so I'm concerned
I felt similar in mini 2272

I wish people would provide links rather than just numbers, that makes it a lot easier to look them up. But you’re saying, if Titus has different takes than you, that’s somehow scum indicative? Because I don’t think that’s necessarily a great metric to read someone. In reverse yes, mindmelding is usually a good sign but the converse by itself isn’t necessarily. Tone-wise she feels townie to me here.

I don't have to agree with Titus
I just have to feel comfortable about her reads/get her thought process

[Gamma Emerald]

One thing that did make me wonder @Math was her reaction to your theory about her picking the number she did to be vanilla and she said it would be stupid to do that. But I don’t see why anyone picks the number she did, if they’re not hoping to get vanilla, so her response to that didn’t really make a lot of sense while your theory did.

I did this before to take a low priority PR.

I guess that’s possible. Were you successful?

I think so. I can't remember and can't find it.

she was
she picked UB and got it

[Gamma Emerald]

Hq is pretty town

Agreed
I think I wanna shore up my townblock and then do a "crunch time reread" to determine where my overall feelings lie

[Gamma Emerald]

@Math, it's the false hypothesis comment that irks me

That’s literally how science works.

You build a hypothesis and test it.

StD has a hypothesis I am scum.

I know it’s false but unless I allow him to test it then it becomes extremely antitown.

I build hypothesis and test them.

My StD hypothesis was falsified so I think StD is town.

I had a similar hypothesis with you when I was gunsmith.

why do you use the word falsified
that implies intentional action

For any premise to be scientifically valid it must be able to be false, falsifiable.

Eg Does the summer sun cause stained shirts?

This can be falsifiable if we leave a shirt out in the sun and it doesn’t stain.

Instead we learn that it fades, so something else causes the uptick in stained shirts.

They all tend to be sticky too.

So then testing again we can discover more people have ice cream in summer months.

It’s just how to make sure a hypothesis is valid.

Eg are there flying unicorns who exist only outside of space and time can’t be scientific because there’s no way to ever prove it false.

I think my definition of a hypothesis might differ from yours

[Gamma Emerald]

I agree with this. Ari assumes I’m assuming, that because town!her’s first pick would be AC. it would defacto be everyone’s default pick. I agree, it’s totally player dependent.

implosion's take on it was probably pretty similar to mine

[Gamma Emerald]

I hate that y’all are agreeing with me now when I said it to Ari and was treated as being ridiculous

that didn't really seem to be what you were saying tho

[Gamma Emerald]

I think picking ascetic cop is much stronger than picking a jailkeeper/roleblocker type role because ascetic cop can't be blocked in the first place and by picking it you are essentially permanently blocking the cop.

Absolutely.

Mafia players don't always play optimally.

Again, this isn't really

important

, I'm just annoyed that we're basically Contractually Obligated to let Enchant not-play-the-game for 2-3 days.

If someone else was playing like Enchant has this game with top pick, would you have the same attitude towards them?

Enchant was being blatantly scummy and weird in that game Implosion linked. Here he’s just nai for me so far.

thoughts on enchant in relation to chromavalon?
I don't like his Ari vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Activity really isn’t much of a tell either way for Enchant, weirdness otoh is, which is what he was in that game he linked. This is also an entirely different setup, so unless Implosion can find more than one gzme to base that read on, I don’t put much stock in it.

enchant was scum in my last PYP so that would be worth a check

[Gamma Emerald]

That being said HEM Implosion Enchant might be a thing.

I feel like my scumreads currently are potentially like Mathblade/implo, HEM, ?
That's not set in stone at all tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Titus is there any particular reason you've created this weird dichotomy between me and Dwlee? I don't see any particular reason why you would think there's one scum between the two of us. And sorry but it's major stretch to say Dwlee has had an "impact" or that they've tried to, this just feels like typical Day 1 effort Dwlee.

The vibe you're giving off is that since you think one of us is scum that we should be in opposition to each other, but I don't have any particular interest in proving myself to be townier than them. I have zero interest in pursuing them at all today as they're usually a slow burn read for me nowadays. If Dwlee has anything to pursue me on they'll do it of their own accord, not because you trying to nudge us into a fight.

Titus only think Dwlee is town because she SR you and believes 2 scum wouldn't collide picks

[Gamma Emerald]

Gosh golly this is a bad post. Town does not say "This future behavior: if this is what you see in the future, push the people who do it" because scum will just... not do that if they genuinely think it's going to get them caught.

it's not smart to say but why does town never say it?

[Gamma Emerald]

you accused std of scumreading you because you smoked him too many times as scum

the subtext is that he's town.

I don't think math addressed this yet, I'd like if he would

I did? Or if I follow I don’t know what you’re asking so can’t address it?

I think it’s SOP for StD?

why do you not think StD could be using you as a scapegoat or smth?

smth?

It means “something”

[Gamma Emerald]

Damn that's the first time I've ever been scumread for being bad at maths

huh?

I was pissed in general and Ausuka being nice about maths felt out of place tonally so she seemed sus.

Here it is.

Like are people just legit not reading my posts?

it seems like Aus didn't feel like all his questions were answered?

[Gamma Emerald]

I could if I bothered too but it’s pretty well known by Titus and Gamma especially. I’d rather see if they back it up to read them. If they say it’s a lie then they are sus and I can be bothered to go get it. If they tell the truth saves me time.

this post confuses me for some stupid reason
it goes back to implo's point about "why would town, or anyone really, say upfront what response they would find suspicious?"
and I'm not even really sure what you're on about so I'd rather you post examples first before I say whether you're right or not. I think in general your idea that being nice is suspicious is kinda off-base though. It's probably player-dependent to a large degree.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you scumread 6 people in a 3 scum game that means you're wrong

It’s a POE

Some are obviously town but it’s a PoE not a solve. If I had a 6 player solve I would be wrong.

I do want to ask, what does PoE mean to you? When I think PoE, I think it means... well, they're the only people left who could be scum, so we can just lim them all and by process of elimination we'll hit all the scum. "If we lim all the people in the PoE we should be in good shape". which... this seems... like just a list of an arbitrary number of people who (presumably) are at the bottom of your reads list.

for me a PoE solve pretty much just relies on having a majority of slots sorted as town
I did see someone (think it was dwlee) say they had PoE read with only like 3-4 confident TRs, but idr their alignment in that game. It was funny tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald
Harley Quinn
Aristeia
Save The Dragons
Ausuka
Roden

Bellaphant
Malakittens
Enchant
Dwlee99
implosion

humaneatingmonkey
Titus
MathBlade

this feels like where my reads are at rn
I intend to sanity check myself on some of this soon, obv titus + HEM is kinda wack but that bottom area is just the people I find have been the most suspicious

[Gamma Emerald]

I think you're probably taking me out of context

[Gamma Emerald]

???
imo that's a massive contradiction to the point you're making here. Titus was being exceptionally not-nice and was scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

???
imo that's a massive contradiction to the point you're making here. Titus was being exceptionally not-nice and was scum.

That is my point exactly

Default is not nice

no it isn't??????

[Gamma Emerald]

ffs

[Gamma Emerald]

@harley

, outside of his read on you, what's your thoughts on StD?

[Gamma Emerald]

ngl what Harley is saying is starting to resonate in my thinkpan a bit
I noticed in a prior game that nero cain tends to have reads on me that are inverse to his alignment
the only exception would be singleball games where I'm scum against him, and I think he's 50/50 on those

[Gamma Emerald]

I had a look at the playerlist and Roden is the only one who'll get this so I'll ask him

@Roden

, should I do that thing I did in radio buzz where I reread the game with my top TRs locked in and figured out who looked suspect based on that consideration?

[Gamma Emerald]

actually maybe enchant would even tho he wasn't in the game yet when I did that
but a) he's not active in this game rn and b) pretty sure he didn't read that game enough to see me do that

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are people townreading math when his read on me is awful

I'm not

[Gamma Emerald]

Titus is there any particular reason you've created this weird dichotomy between me and Dwlee? I don't see any particular reason why you would think there's one scum between the two of us. And sorry but it's major stretch to say Dwlee has had an "impact" or that they've tried to, this just feels like typical Day 1 effort Dwlee.

The vibe you're giving off is that since you think one of us is scum that we should be in opposition to each other, but I don't have any particular interest in proving myself to be townier than them. I have zero interest in pursuing them at all today as they're usually a slow burn read for me nowadays. If Dwlee has anything to pursue me on they'll do it of their own accord, not because you trying to nudge us into a fight.

This is absolutely not my position.

My position is that you're not S v S.
I feel that you're scummy and therefore Dwlee is town.

I could still be wrong on you, hence why my vote isn't on you.

This is literally what I said??

Roden still has no drive to solve. HEM should be the lim.

this feels patently false

Roden just appeared and his only posting was a misrep so far.

Why are you lying?

Titus Dwlee Gamma? I was tring them before but I don’t like how they volunteered they aren’t TRing me yet are off HEM. That disconnect is weird.

I think if any of those are off I look at Harley and implosion.

I'm literally voting you. So no I don't think it's odd that I'm off HEM, I've had my own scumread I've been chasing for most of the game. Also dislike you shading HQ, she's definitely town here.

[Gamma Emerald]

HQ pls vote Math

[Gamma Emerald]

O_O

[Gamma Emerald]

sorry
you saying FL caused me to bluescreen

anyway Math can have bad reads as town but like Titus there's generally at least an ability to understand where he's coming from
I also think he's generating a lot of friction which feels like it might be indicative of scum!him?
in addition Klick basically did a rinse-repeat of the last time I saw him as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I incorrectly TR Klick the last time he played like he did here

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma, can you quote/link me where he tried to cause friction as scum?

dunno if it's intentional but I would probably say to look at micro 1053 (Inspector Rean)

[Gamma Emerald]

Helllooo!

[Gamma Emerald]

???

[Gamma Emerald]

hi im in a lot of pain. can someone give me a rundown of how everyone will solve the game moving forward and if i'm satisfied I'll allow my elim. 80085 got me vanilla. i dont think there's much fighting this.

wdym?

[Gamma Emerald]

so you're asking what people's thoughts are if you flip town?

[Gamma Emerald]

who's town for you rn math?

[Gamma Emerald]

Std and Roden

I don’t have any other hard trs

[Gamma Emerald]

@math

can you provide examples of you finding town!me early in past games?

[Gamma Emerald]

@math

can you provide examples of you finding town!me early in past games?

Probably I just don’t care to right now

I feel like this is happening a lot with you

[Gamma Emerald]

idk
but I dislike how he's being hard to work with when it comes to explaining reads
which is ironic because I think he pushed StD for that earlier

[Gamma Emerald]

Mechanical Condamnation shall roll out once more…

[Gamma Emerald]

Opinion on math/Titus?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: HEM

I don't think it makes sense to elim Mathblade before HEM and I think there are several moments that are kind of townie for MB - like

that time when he said I should know he's town or w/e.

How so?

[Gamma Emerald]

I am actually using this to prove HEM town.

If people actually believed I was scum with HEM they’d all still be voting HEM like Ari says

Since I can’t explain it with words then I can explain it by using people’s wagon movements

???

[Gamma Emerald]

Those who genuinely think HEM is scum would want to stay on HEM scum. They wouldn’t destroy one wagon to move to a maybe wagon where some people townread me.

Ergo HEM is town and I am town

Restart RVS if you have to.

Or you’re both scum

[Gamma Emerald]

I am bored, can we end game already?

No.

[Gamma Emerald]

More confident you’re scum than HEM

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes they absolutely need to vote HEM to prove they scumread him

Yes it’s the colloquial use of the word proof but it demonstrates the damn point

People don’t want HEM flipping town as it proves me town in the process

Put in a ton of likelies if it makes you feel better

why do you think we care about proving that rn

[Gamma Emerald]

so why dont u vote for hem and prove yourself town

Because then I would eat a ban for town voting town post game

...
...??????????

If I vote Hem when I believe he is town that will eat me a ban for voting against wincon

dude, I had cloudkicker do that in a game I modded, no ban happened

[Gamma Emerald]

You really wagon math for townreading hum?
Bruhbruh.

bad pop-in

[Gamma Emerald]

sorry
you saying FL caused me to bluescreen

anyway Math can have bad reads as town but like Titus there's generally at least an ability to understand where he's coming from
I also think he's generating a lot of friction which feels like it might be indicative of scum!him?
in addition Klick basically did a rinse-repeat of the last time I saw him as scum

Can you talk more about Klick here?

pretty sure I already did?

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright here's where I am

Gamma StD HQ --- Hard town
Bella - Lean Town
Dwlee - Weak Town
HEM implosion Ari Auska - Null (Waiting to see how things play out)


Enchant Wallflower - Problematic
Math - Lean Scum (Needs to stop throwing a fit, cool down, study persuasive people or whatever) That would make him a lot easier to read. I'm ok with eliminating him for now. I just don't see the town motivation in this attitude.

why is ari null?
also my mind feels like a smear on pavement rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Humor me and explain please. Brain not firing on all cylinders.

last time I remember seeing klick!scum he was lurky and responded to my alternative opening a certain way
he responded to ari's number pick thing similarly to how he reacted to what I did, and he only posted 3 times before flaking out

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright here's where I am

Gamma StD HQ --- Hard town
Bella - Lean Town
Dwlee - Weak Town
HEM implosion Ari Auska - Null (Waiting to see how things play out)


Enchant Wallflower - Problematic
Math - Lean Scum (Needs to stop throwing a fit, cool down, study persuasive people or whatever) That would make him a lot easier to read. I'm ok with eliminating him for now. I just don't see the town motivation in this attitude.

why is ari null?
also my mind feels like a smear on pavement rn

I don't get their objectives yet. I'm sure if I was feeling better I'd have an opinion.

also where is roden?

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright here's where I am

Gamma StD HQ --- Hard town
Bella - Lean Town
Dwlee - Weak Town
HEM implosion Ari Auska - Null (Waiting to see how things play out)


Enchant Wallflower - Problematic
Math - Lean Scum (Needs to stop throwing a fit, cool down, study persuasive people or whatever) That would make him a lot easier to read. I'm ok with eliminating him for now. I just don't see the town motivation in this attitude.

why is ari null?
also my mind feels like a smear on pavement rn

I don't get their objectives yet. I'm sure if I was feeling better I'd have an opinion.

also where is roden?

Hard Town mb

okay Titus is town

[Gamma Emerald]

Nope and until you get the difference, you will have the persuasiveness of a housefly in a venus fly trap.

this is a sign of town!Titus

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s why you never make the case anyone is scum to that person

They will never agree with you

You just spam out their bullshit and hope and pray others believe you.

Spam v Spam only goes so far imo
When it gets too much the one who can pull back will likely win

[Gamma Emerald]

Nope and until you get the difference, you will have the persuasiveness of a housefly in a venus fly trap.

this is a sign of town!Titus

I’m coming around to Titustown as well. What do you think of HEM’s recent posts?

Nothing especially groundbreaking from HEM imo
I don’t like that he feels the need to rehash stuff with Ari
I feel like while some of the wording could have been done better Ari definitely wasn’t crossing the line her evaluation of his play

[Gamma Emerald]

i still think flipping mathblade over hem is a very suboptimal play because the odds of scum!mb WKing a town!hem is extraordinarily low. i think he is way overdoing the defense here.

Fair. I am not sure exactly what Math's agenda is. He's still my favorite lim right now though.

Who exactly is your townblock and your scumblock?

townblock is hq titus gamma std mathblade

i think scum are hem enchant

im shaky on implo think he could be third not anywhere near as good feeling tbh

Trade math for Roden and we’re golden

[Gamma Emerald]

However Dwlee is spewed town by scum!Math. This is in no way scum theatre.

This is probably correct

[Gamma Emerald]

Maths wagon is made up of my null, null scum reads and ....you.

I don't rlly like this on a personal level

[Gamma Emerald]

might have been misinterpretinig things but don't have time to check atm, will be on in an hour or two

One more important note: remember that Enchant is just gonna autohammer anyone at E-1. So pretend everyone is at one less vote to elim.

How would you misrep something I don’t think exists?

misinterpret != misrep

[Gamma Emerald]

might have been misinterpretinig things but don't have time to check atm, will be on in an hour or two

One more important note: remember that Enchant is just gonna autohammer anyone at E-1. So pretend everyone is at one less vote to elim.

How would you misrep something I don’t think exists?

misinterpret != misrep

How do you misinterpret something that doesn’t exist?

Literally no one talked about it?

idk, I can't tell what the original thing you're even talking about from implo is

[Gamma Emerald]

Maths wagon is made up of my null, null scum reads and ....you.

I don't rlly like this on a personal level

Bellaphant can be easily scum here. They had a borderline TMI townread on me and then nose dived into scumreading and discrediting me for no reason

@gamma, why not?
@dweelee, I liked your answer but you've barely done anything else. Like ...even you said you weren't here.

Also, these seem a weird cluster.

why did you distinguish HQ in that way? It felt disdainful

[Gamma Emerald]

hi, really sorry about playing so terribly this game lmao, I didn't want to be like this but irl is really kicking my ass and it's hard to like think clearly and sort people, I'm going to try and catch up to the current page and if anyone has questions about my opinions on like a specific thing I'll do my best to look into it and answer

???
how has your play so far this game been terrible?

[Gamma Emerald]

lulw

[Gamma Emerald]

If you don’t understand my point then why are you continually asserting it’s wrong?

because the point is lost yet you're barking up a storm about how this is supposed to mean something

[Gamma Emerald]

If you don’t understand my point then why are you continually asserting it’s wrong?

because the point is lost yet you're barking up a storm about how this is supposed to mean something

The point
Implosion asked about something that didn’t happen
I called him out
He then said Bella said she talked about my timer
Which is like not true?
Then called himself right

Like I feel like I am in the twilight zone with how much gas there is

bella thought your timer was the deadline for the game
that's what implosion was talking about when you said he "slipped"

[Gamma Emerald]

I know you use aggression and emotion to get people on your side

how does this remotely resemble HQ's pay this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Math, can you link the Parker game? I can't. Driving.

Sorry I am not sure which game you mean

And please don’t mafia and drive
It can wait a few hours

The one where I was a loyal jailkeeper and thought I was crumbing every single PR. Not Mafia was scum and missed a kill.

mini 2226, I'll fetch the link

[Gamma Emerald]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87284

here

[Gamma Emerald]

I still think he is scum though.

why?? feels like you're sticking to a debunked read out of stubbornness rn

[Gamma Emerald]

uhhh.. im not disinterested in my own death. maybe before my surgery because i didn't know how long I'll be knocked out for and i didn't have the focus to fight my death (+ i didn't really want to hold the game, so IMO if d1 will flip town, there's no one better). but now im confident i can feel better and actually play this game soon. i'm more pointing out that scum would have switched after my claim because it's more advantageous for them to run up another slot and get another claim. it's basic d1 scum strat. so im kinda reconsidering if i'm still right that there's scum in my wagon. i could see that there's at least one so that the option doesn't fade away.

I look forward to seeing your grand re-entry

[Gamma Emerald]

Because he waffles everywhere and hasn’t had a concrete read

dunno if this is true
the other part is a fair call-out tbh, I think there's like 90% shot implo had some rationale to it tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Because he waffles everywhere and hasn’t had a concrete read

dunno if this is true
the other part is a fair call-out tbh, I think there's like 90% shot implo had some rationale to it tho

What do you think it is?

something based on knowing his own alignment probably
can't really extrapolate beyond that

[Gamma Emerald]

I do not claim to know how implosion thinks
I'm just filling in what seems logical

[Gamma Emerald]

the one thing for me, I don't think this can actually be answered without revealing main, but it's whether it's before or after december 2019
anything before then is kinda lost in the fog for me, I probably only remember broad strokes

[Gamma Emerald]

the one thing for me, I don't think this can actually be answered without revealing main, but it's whether it's before or after december 2019
anything before then is kinda lost in the fog for me, I probably only remember broad strokes

If it’s the game I’m thinking of before because I have only been scum in 2 games with Math 3, if you include a 3p and only one WF where I was scum and him town.

AtE is never ai for me and anyone doing an honest good faith metadive on me will tell you that. If anything pisses me off in games more than absolutely anything is people butchering my meta and I absolutely will not stand for that!

it took ages but I think I found the game, and it's OLD

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe everyone can take one step backwards

I just get extremely salty whenever I get bs shitpushed on a garbage meta read. If he was pushing me on anything actually related to this game, I wouldn’t get pissed.

But he is throwing out bs shade which I can’t respond to without outing my main, so I guess he wasn’t sincere ablit not alt outing me then because if he actually were to link/quote absolutely anything I could rip it to smithereens but he can continue to garbage shade me and I literally can’t defend myself unless I out my main, which is an extremely shitty position to be in.

And I can’t prove my statement and it’s not bs without outing your main

It’s the same spot.

It is a shitty position

You can miselim me and I am more than likely right

Or you can push a miselim elsewhere

now that I've worked out what the game is with like 80% certainty I can mediate this
tho regardless of what that game turns up the described scum!meta Math spoke of does not resemble HQ's play in

this

game.

[Gamma Emerald]

problem: the relevant ISO is 1000+ posts
how am I expected to actually parse all of that in a meaningful way to compare to this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

that's kinda @math

[Gamma Emerald]

Can we cut debate and hammer?

We still have 3 days, why the rush?

That's not rush in any case, but i think mafia are more likely to be early voted, due DISTANCING, and after 7-10 days of bunnyhopping someone else dies instead.

It's annoying.

Can you do me a favor and read the VCs?

[Gamma Emerald]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=26193

Dwlee town

Count the questions

I just had another idea

[Gamma Emerald]

Why do you expect me to put every thought I have into my posts

Here is a question

That’s a reactionary question, not one to sort

[Gamma Emerald]

Could you link KTANE for me rq?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I was seeing if the T3 tell still held water, it doesn’t

[Gamma Emerald]

look at hems iso and maths iso

they both mutually townread each other

math is incredibly adamant about defending hem and i twisted his arm to vote hem because regardless of how much he wants to defend hem he knows elimming hem is better than elimming himself

hem has not at all defended math and is already angling to maybe vote for him.

if this is T/S i think hem is much likelier to be S than mathblade is.

This tracks tbh, scum!Math wouldn’t need much twisting to vote town!HEM

[Gamma Emerald]

mathblade tried pretty hard to derail the hem wagon he screamed, he was rude, he flung weird moonlogic everywhere - thats a sign of geniune belief imo and makes very little sense for scum!blade to do for town!hem

has hem done anything to derail the mathblade wagon?

HEM has been out of commission

[Gamma Emerald]

Same thing in 2272 looks like, I literally just don't ask as many questions as I used to

As many I would buy

You’re at 0 unless I missed one

Math, would you join me on Wallflower?

If you determined an anti-lim pool of five or six players without regard to time, popularity, or mechanics, who would it be?

Why is Wallflower scum? I feel like they’ve been pretty decent.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw Titus, what does Housefly mean when you used it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw Titus, what does Housefly mean when you used it?

Housefly? I don't recall this. Context?

I probably read too far into something you said
You mentioned something about a Venus Fly Trap while talking to Math and I thought it was an Ovaltine decoder ring thing

[Gamma Emerald]

Me and Math were in a game with a Venus Fly Trap once

[Gamma Emerald]

mathblade tried pretty hard to derail the hem wagon he screamed, he was rude, he flung weird moonlogic everywhere - thats a sign of geniune belief imo and makes very little sense for scum!blade to do for town!hem

has hem done anything to derail the mathblade wagon?

HEM has been out of commission

yes but read his iso

he doesnt really defend mathblade even when he is here

This feels pretty important and I think it needs some emphasis on why this is AI

HEM's latest take is that wagons are getting pushed by scum to try to out PRs. However, he's pretty low on the draft list, so it doesn't make much sense to push him just to get info on where PRs are, and he continued to be a leading wagon even after he claimed VT anyway. The only other notable wagons were Ari, who never claimed since her wagon died early, Dwlee, who's even lower than HEM and also didn't claim, and Math, who didn't claim but is at the bottom of the draft and has no real chance to snag a PR. The narrative that scum are pushing wagons to PR hunt just doesn't make much sense.

Despite this, he tried to take his town read back on Math recently even though he had him as lock town earlier, and should be considered town if scum are hunting for PRs like he claimed. What I think is really going on is that he realized his logic was inherently flawed and that he needs to anti-spew his "read" on Math in case he gets elim'd first.

yea i forgot that pr pushing thing is literally nonsense since we have an ordered draft its not like the roles got dealt out randomly. scum more or less know where the powerful prs they have to shoot are.

VOTE: HEM
yeah this is pretty potent stuff

[Gamma Emerald]

hem + mathblade also doens't make sense because we hardly have any influence n the game. i';m out and mathblade is basically being shit on.

okay and? sometimes scumteams fail to start strong and get rolled

[Gamma Emerald]

do you know how hard i play scum? this is not it.

not buying this as a valid point

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, do you see where I am going? Do you need me to go further in showing my thought process in why I'm no longer conflicted about Math scum?

I think I get it but you're playing with napalm

[Gamma Emerald]

Can scum pick vigilante

Yes

[Gamma Emerald]

We likely get a scum from a jailkeeper/roleblock claim here
Because based on Enchant likely being a cop who checked me
Then roleblock/jailkeep is likely on scum here because it’s probable scum tried to shoot in enchant or Ari.

Enchant would be dead fypov.

Ari doesn't get shot with my post eod.

Figures that was your aim. Probably the only close-to-effective performance I’ve seen for that.

[Gamma Emerald]

At some point there is deffo scum on the hem wagon, but in the later half I think.

Gamma Emerald, Save The Dragons, Harley Quinn, Titus, Dwlee99 - there's a scum in here, probably Titus/dweelee. I think hem was distancing from dweelee and just vote parked. Like, there's one slot in here I have above 'null'

Maximum EW

[Gamma Emerald]

vote count 1.09

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-14 01:30:00).

yeet

humaneatingmonkey [4]:

Dwlee99, Titus, implosion, Roden

Aristeia [3]:

humaneatingmonkey, Bellaphant, MathBlade

MathBlade [2]:

Gamma Emerald, Save The Dragons

Dwlee99 [1]:

Ausuka

not voting [4]:

Harley Quinn, Malakittens, Enchant, Aristeia

mod notes

~ humaneatingmonkey v/la wednesday to friday.
~ Gamma Emerald v/la for a week.
~ dual mod iso.
~ this is mod note.

flavour

I feel like this Ari wagon in this VC is pretty bad
Potentially 3/3 scum on it

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey, sorry, that's 'hasnt' - see the rogue t? Yes, we had some good content but I was massively disheartened to see today start with another set of convos that looked like they could just lead to Titus/math blowing up the thread. I also can't believe I signed up for a game this large - I don't play larges because I can't cope with 80 pages: but, also, I feel like there was a lot of consensus that nothing good was coming from the hem slot very early on - we've even mentioned today that Titus buried hem on post 400 and something.

Bad vibes from this

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi gamma, you keep shading my posts: fancy actually talking to me, asking me questions, giving me anything apart from 'eww'? Coz I can't read you and you clearly can't read me.

Why can’t you read me?

[Gamma Emerald]

I had to double check I'd not written one of ausuka's posts. Them, delete and probably gamma are on my no elim pile for today.

@gamma, for now, yes.

I am disappointed by dweelee's post about enchant suggesting they care more about numbers, so maybe I'm wrong.

pronoun correction. ~D

My elim pool is really boring: mala, Roden, maybe gamma, maybe STD, maybe enchant (I get what you are saying now) maybe dweelee. Actually maybe having no feelings about hem is a red flag.

P-edit I assume I'm going to wake up to 20 pages again, so no hurry

Gamma Emerald - I thought they were scummy earlier in day phase but are now null
Harley Quinn - my heart likes this slot but I think it's play style
Aristeia - town. The numbers stuff was bad but again, massively improved
Save The Dragons - null scum. like hem, lots of posts, can not actually tell you what they think about anything
Ausuka - town, but also my heart loves this slot
Roden - null scum

Elephant
Malakittens - aren't here
Enchant - bait
Dwlee99 - ???
implosion - town

humaneatingmonkey- prolly scum
Titus - wary of this slot, could be scum
MathBlade - town

this feels like where my reads are at rn
I intend to sanity check myself on some of this soon, obv titus + HEM is kinda wack but that bottom area is just the people I find have been the most suspicious

I would color this but I'm a luddite

@hq, I think math, especially this game, whether town or scum, is an easy elim. I don't think it's right for today. I'll reconsider this read later. Your posting on about math is becoming a little math posting aboout hem like.

I have no opinion on gamma really. Titus I'm concerned about, but their other scum reads reassure me a bit.


Noone seems interested in my scum reads and I don't think will be until we've flipped some or the more controversial slots. We have like a day and a half left and I just want to be done with today.
@titus I've spoken about math a lot. I don't think most people are scum reading him for reasons that I haven't seen them do as town. Also, as a competing wagon to hem who really hasn't shown a want to solve, I'm going to vote hem.

P-edit I just disagree. I'm not saying I can't be convinced, but I've explained why my read is what it is. I haven't ignored it, I've discussed it with Roden.

This whole progression on me is all over the place actually
Feels like you’re reads aren’t entirely dictated by thread events

[Gamma Emerald]

@implo, fair. I did start today really negative, I was feeling really good about our progress and then Titus started off with 'i must have been shot!' which gave me team mafia flash backs.

@gamma, I find I read people better when I talk directly to them. You just seen to want to throw rocks at me, which doesn't help communication. Like I said, please ask me questions, etc. Like, how is what I said to Implo even ia - it's really basic, but it's something that I could've said as town or scum and been honest : I missed a 'n' and I prefer smaller games.

Okay
I feel like most of the Math wagon is pure (HQ and StD I’m pretty sure of, Titus is 95%, Dwlee is like 85%)
Why couldn’t scum just have been uninvolved? I think that’s potentially more logical based on the long stall yesterday.

[Gamma Emerald]

I did look at you and STD again over night and realised that part of it is you post rapid fire and also very...certain things..I think your biggest post is still under 40 words. Std has some longer posts but I was shocked when I saw their activity was over 100 posts. I think I just find that hard to process

Like, look at this post. It could've been half the words but I'm processing and trying also to exposit a thought process.

Okay and?