Open 853 - PYP X/Y S_S [game over!]

[humaneatingmonkey]

80085

[humaneatingmonkey]

1, 2, 3 why not

[humaneatingmonkey]

80085

If I turn my phone upside down it turns into something naughty

sqooq

[humaneatingmonkey]

std you're such a pig

[humaneatingmonkey]

why would you doublebid as scum i dont get it

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: ari i dont like the vibe

[humaneatingmonkey]

i want to know where ari will take her though experiment.

[humaneatingmonkey]

aight ari, time's up. tell us what cool shit you're gonna do with the information we gave you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im excited to move on from this numbers discussion. i can't get a decent reads out of it

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay

we have an ari wagon. does everybody feel the same way that she was creating a false setup spec narrative that high numbers are town wherein she also chose a high number? especially sus since i dont think it's even good town strategy to choose high numbers.

[humaneatingmonkey]

personally, i chose 80085 because i have personal sentimental memories associated with it. not because it would be good strategy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i voted you because it felt off that you are declaring that high numbers are town based on setup spec, and in an extension you, without regard for how accurate that statement would be.

[humaneatingmonkey]

so you're voting me for picking a high number even though you picked a higher number?

was i unclear or did you just try to misrep me right in front of my face? i hope it's not the latter. the disrespect.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i agree. don't know if it's a joke or not. i voted the moment i had the feeling. but now we have a wagon. not sure where others are.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I like that Gamma is immediately trying to make sense of the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

What even is the purpose of that, Ari? Would that help you read us? If not, shouldn't you be appealing to those who wouldn't answer or at least try and convince them?

[humaneatingmonkey]

So youre not at all still interested in finding out the result of what you want to do?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry, I really was trying to be nice! The alternative was immediately calling you scum for being unmotivated to solve the game. Your immediate transitiom out of your thing was misrepping me. But really I want to at least help you squeeze answers from people, but i guess you're not interested and that's fair.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hey remember when you did this to me in a previous game, and you were being very extra in trying to make me seem like im being obtuse. You ended up town there. I wonder if we just cant get along.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yes ok im done

[humaneatingmonkey]

i have to say this out loud but i want to ask other people what they feel about ari's position because right now all im seeing is manipulative scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

Im trying to figure you out

[humaneatingmonkey]

i became wary of my read on her because it felt a lot like what happened to us when i tunneled her apparently (i did not) and our conversations are adversarial. but then i immediately feel wrong about how she paints me as some sort of an asshole unfairly, and it feels to me like a discredit. although, she isn't calling me scum about it either so i dont know why it wouldn't make her stop and question if there's a chance im town and there's validity in my observation. like i said, i'm even willing to help her get her experiment going but she's still uninterested because she chose to engage me in this way.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I am asking him which game is he referring to where town!me forced everyone to do something against their will.

This question doesn't make sense to me, and I imagine it's because you already twisted this into something that I don't recognize. But please rephrase it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry, I really was trying to be nice! The alternative was immediately calling you scum for being unmotivated to solve the game. Your immediate transitiom out of your thing was misrepping me. But really I want to at least help you squeeze answers from people, but i guess you're not interested and that's fair.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you are saying that because I gave up on the number thing, I am scum who didn't really actually care about the number thing. y/n?

maybe, but i was trying to understand you so i asked. you immediately called me disgusting or something.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes it implies that because i think it. you did give up. i think it's because this ai-revealing stuff that you spent pages trying to collect was important to you. but you gave up. so i asked you about it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

was important to you

was not important

[humaneatingmonkey]

This whole back and forth is deeply boring to me at this point. I don't really get much of a read on either of them from it.

this is all you're going to get, so give us your thoughts.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's a gross thing to say because the implication is that town!me would care and triple down and be an asshole and force every person in this game to submit three numbers; hence me giving up on it implies I am mafia.

the way you refer yourself as town!me is still off to me but whatever

okay ari i just think this is a game and if that's really a gameplay that can get you your win condition, then it's not being an asshole it's gameplay.

[humaneatingmonkey]

whatever i can see the angle that it's a difference in playstyle

[humaneatingmonkey]

i still feel that ari reacted to me was overreactive, especially with the namecalling, but im just gonna let everyone comment on that

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's why i asked. usually, i get the answers that way. what's gonna happen is someone's gonna read what you wrote and if you lied about how you present your meta someone's gonna notice and the fact that no one has backed it up is enough to me for now.

like what i get here is that it's possible you let go because you got frustrated — but it's also still possible you're scum that didn't really care for the results because your overreaction implies some crazy level of defensiveness. town!you not pursuing your experiment because you're anti-disgusting does nothing to alleviate my read on you. but at least some people are townreading you, and i might listen to them for a while.

i already have what i need from this conversation. are you set?

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's an interesting mindset. that's why i think you're defensive.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not even that aggressive. and im not thoughtless.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you keep coming back to the idea that i think you're scum because you chose a high number. i think it's a deliberate misrepresentation at this point, i have cleared this up before. i thought it was off that you would declare yourself town and the other high number people as town, and forming a block because of that when your numbers are too similar with Malakittens. and that was enough for me to vote you early game. i actually wanted you to succeed in your experiment, and i was getting impatient that it's been like around 8 pages and you haven't even explained to us what's up even though you have like half of the game's answer. that's why i also got irritated that you dropped it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

this is just pure revisionist nonsense.

he did not vote me for my comment about large numbers - he voted me for vibes. he decided to change what he was pushing me for after he saw Ausuka pushing me for "large numbers" he never even mentioned the large numbers thing until AFTER Ausuka started pushing me for it. He had previously stated in 128 that he didn't think the number discussion about large numbers was even useful so he clearly did not CARE about large numbers. He's now changing his story as if he was pushing me for the large number theory to begin with.

this is also super dishonest. where did she think the vibes came from?

[humaneatingmonkey]

like it's a whole level of irony when you were accusing me of being "uncharitable" and "disgusting" for mischaracterizing you and then turn around and give the most uncharitable and dishonest case that you can give me. i dont think this is disgusting, because this is probably just good scum play.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i keep reading the case and it actively pisses me off how much namecalling there is so im gonna step away from the game for now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you said you were uninterested

quote it

[humaneatingmonkey]

where did i say you were lockscum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

how did i deathtunnel you?

[humaneatingmonkey]

you took a big sum of the early pages and all the spotlight was going for you. of course im going to mention you. and my read was not progressing as it was just an early vibe so i wanted for us to move on.

[humaneatingmonkey]

thats different from uninterested. i wasnt getting decent reads out of the numbers discussion. i wanted to talk about the wagon on you, which could give us better reads. my mission was successful when you engaged me and here we are.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you took a big sum of the early pages and all the spotlight was going for you. of course im going to mention you. and my read was not progressing as it was just an early vibe so i wanted for us to move on.

[humaneatingmonkey]

frame me however you like. you have questions, you got answers.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you already have the answer there. im not gonna defend myself with meta. if you're truly interested in sorting me, you'll see for yourself. i personally remember tunnelling as part of the things im actively trying to move away from because it ruins my town game. so you telling me that im tunneled here when i wanted to actually move the discussion away from the numbers and back to something productive so i can get better reads... that's bullshit

[humaneatingmonkey]

I do not have the answer.

1. it's not a deathtunnel
2. the game was focused on your experiment, it wasn't possible for me to get an ai read or associative read because the discussion was so sterile

[humaneatingmonkey]

(1a) you also don't seem to be sorting me or asking me any questions so I think it's reasonable for me to think you believe you know what my alignment is if you are town as you are not actively sorting(I honestly don't think you ever were)

i literally considered that we were tvt. you're being dishonest.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hem, do you have any reads currently other than aristeia-scum and gamma-town (and any others I may have missed in a brief iso-skim)?

And do you make anything of the new people jumping on your wagon?

im not in a clear headspace right now. instinctively, i feel that the scum team just ganged up on me here. but i know better than that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you actually care about putting focus back on the game as a whole then just call a truce and move on. Unless you think your 1v1 is pushing the game forward I guess but both of you don't appear to be scum locking each other.

i have a wagon based on a shit push. i think this is good for the gamestate.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you're not being trolled. you were prompted to explain yourself before we continued. you refused. then you dropped it. then i asked you why you dropped it because i thought it was just easier to explain it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's all you had to do. explain your experiment. but you made a big fuss about it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you actually care about putting focus back on the game as a whole then just call a truce and move on. Unless you think your 1v1 is pushing the game forward I guess but both of you don't appear to be scum locking each other.

this just assumed we are tvt. i realized you were voting me. so you don't actually believe i'm scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

This is my third time asking you HEM;

Which comments of mine do you believe fall outside the bounds of this game and "pissed you off".

I will make an honest effort to avoid this in the future if your complaints are reasonable - I do understand I can sometimes cross over boundaries.

since last night you've been calling me gross. you've been calling me disgusting. you've been calling me a liar. you've been misrepping me. it's hard not to feel emotional about that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

how is our 1v1 isn't moving the game forward if i'm scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm also willing to drop this, but we're the two highest wagons and i feel irresponsible to drop out when the game is about us right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also don't understand why you are emotional about these comments if you believe I am a scum who is lying.

have someone tell you that you're lying when you've been honest, and then come back to me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i understand. that's why i don't take it personal.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you actually care about putting focus back on the game as a whole then just call a truce and move on. Unless you think your 1v1 is pushing the game forward I guess but both of you don't appear to be scum locking each other.

this just assumed we are tvt. i realized you were voting me. so you don't actually believe i'm scum?

What part of "if you're not scum locking each other then call a truce and move on" translates as "I'm assuming you're TvT"?

your whole thing assumes that this 1v1 isn't moving the game forward if you're calling for us to have a truce and move on. aren't you improving your reads by watching us bicker? how have your read on me developed?

[humaneatingmonkey]

the draft was anomalous and I think pushing to townread the high numbers is a strange position for town to take and could benefit the scum wincon

thanks for articulating this. this is where i was on ari when she opened with it. especially since she has a high number as well.

[humaneatingmonkey]

123 was not a joke

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's not actually sentimental for me. i chose 80085 because it's boobs

[humaneatingmonkey]

i was joking, but i realize anything i say is open game for misrepping so im just gonna take those layers away

[humaneatingmonkey]

I will distance myself from this thread until I hear more from Dwlee and std

[humaneatingmonkey]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89094

Ari, iso me and GuiltyLion.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yesterday it felt like ari was twisting my words and framing me as a villain. it felt like she was using my reputation as an aggressive, abrasive player to discredit me. that sucked because i didn't even feel like i was being aggressive nor have i been eliminating the possibility that she could have been town.

i want to know if anyone else picked that vibe up. if no one else, I'll move on and i will reread the whole thing trying my best to view it differently.

[humaneatingmonkey]

dwlee why am i scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

cyrus62. what a guy. he deserves a comeback.

[humaneatingmonkey]

ill sheep you if you can convince me

[humaneatingmonkey]

titus do you townread gamma

[humaneatingmonkey]

ari is already my counter, titus

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yesish.

what's your take on ge

[humaneatingmonkey]

im already in it. there's also dwlee. how does that inform your reads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

so you townread dwlee? who are the other scum on dwlee wagon?

[humaneatingmonkey]

so implo and i are buddies. what about implo makes you think scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

whats your take on ge?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe that's enough to summon Klick to respond

[humaneatingmonkey]

So I guess no one saw ari's push the same way as i did ok

[humaneatingmonkey]

Titus seems to think Dwlee is town

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think that flew above everyone's head there

[humaneatingmonkey]

I dont think there was enough from Dwlee to make Titus townread them

[humaneatingmonkey]

It means you should vote Klick

If you vote hem and they flip and I'm wrong, you get my vote tmo Gamma.

Why should I vote HEM?

He's shopping for a counter when he's the top.

ari is already my counter, titus

Right, which makes me suspect it's overloaded if you get on.

ari is already my counter, titus

Right, which makes me suspect it's overloaded if you get on.

Overloaded how?
I’m TR Ausuka rn

Is HEM got on Dwlee too many scum on it.

Could be D scum but not feeling that for ~reasons~.

These were already assuming Dwlee town
And then she tried to address it in the end but it was weaksauce for me

[humaneatingmonkey]

Titus can you expound on ~reasons~? Is it tone? Is it vibes?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't especially mind a townread on dwlee for ~reasons~ at this point tbh. I don't agree with it obviously but I think they have enough content to be townread. Wouldn't mind an elaboration of course but I don't see it as scummy per se.

Do you townread Dwlee yourself?

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay ill bite what behavior is that ari

[humaneatingmonkey]

what are your thoughts on that

[humaneatingmonkey]

V/LA from GMT+8 Wednesday to Friday. Surgery.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like your response to her was "ari is already my counter, titus"


as in you already have a cw on me - except my votes went from 3 -> 2 and you don't seem to be getting anyone to bite on voting me so instead of trying to convince people to vote me cuz I'm mafia - you're asking other people to convince you to vote for Klick[shopping for an alternative]

The reason this is scummy is because it's not clear whether you've actually decided on an alignment for me, you're just browsing alternatives without resolving the actual issue.

Like gamma is trying to convince you to vote klick because gamma thinks klick is mafia cuz meta - you are not trying to convince Gamma that I'm mafia.

what do you make of implo saying dwlee is townreadable

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes im not reading the votecount. im on mobile.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes okay i understand implo now

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ari can you describe my town game for me when you do my meta please thanks

[humaneatingmonkey]

the wagons are "stalled" because scum wants me hammered

[humaneatingmonkey]

i have zero grasp of the game right now. anyone wants to give me a refresher?

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay, in any case, i'll be absent from here on and only appearing to and for

watch my wagon. that's a wagon on town. if people push for it aggressively without trying to parse more info from me, that means it's scum-motivated. i haven't read the game beyond the posts i didn't make today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I havent read anything beyond the last post that i didnt make today. I only scrolled really really fast

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

[humaneatingmonkey]

I got familiarized with Math's scumgame last time. I'm going to watch if I get red energy from him too

[humaneatingmonkey]

Shorty got that apple bottom jeans

[humaneatingmonkey]

Boots with the fur

[humaneatingmonkey]

With the whole club looking at her

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nobody was kind enough to give me a rundown and im still too lazy to read

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Math offering narratives that arent overtly what town wants to do like wagon town (me) makes me think math is town here

[humaneatingmonkey]

In all games, if Math is trying to take the town towards HIS direction - Math town
If Math is trying to let the town do what they want and pander to existing talking points - Math scum

Ill die by this read

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Math offering narratives that arent overtly what town wants to do like wagon town (me) makes me think math is town here

In all games, if Math is trying to take the town towards HIS direction - Math town
If Math is trying to let the town do what they want and pander to existing talking points - Math scum

Ill die by this read

That’s not ai for Math, he did that in Heroes’ Wanted too.

Do you have any opinion on his STD push?

As long as he has originality, whatever hes doing, thats probably town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think Math offering narratives that arent overtly what town wants to do like wagon town (me) makes me think math is town here

It’s more I am exploring I haven’t concluded one way or another on you

Let’s assume you’re town

Who is scum on your wagon? Just based on what you’ve read please if you’re town. I don’t want some half assed “but I haven’t read page 37” yet or some BS

If you had to pick who?

Okay then youre gonna have to wait a bit

[humaneatingmonkey]

Im present so I can be asked questions. I really cant conclude anything right now other than react to the present

[humaneatingmonkey]

In the hospital atm

[humaneatingmonkey]

Whos in my wagon lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

vote count 1.07

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-06-14 01:30:00).

yeet

humaneatingmonkey [3]:

Aristeia, Dwlee99, Titus, Save The Dragons, implosion, Roden

Aristeia [2]:

humaneatingmonkey, Bellaphant

Dwlee99 [1]:

Ausuka

MathBlade[1]:

Gamma Emerald

not voting [4]:

Harley Quinn, Malakittens, Enchant, MathBlade

mod notes

~ humaneatingmonkey v/la wednesday to friday.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is this current

[humaneatingmonkey]

Math catching up makes me confident to say thats hes town or at least hes doing this because he recognizes that ill spot if hes doing the same shtick he did from our last game

[humaneatingmonkey]

From all my wagon, i only got actual heat from ari so i might belueve that shes the least likely to be scum here cause ive been mulling over that she might be genuine

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also can now understand the feeling that she felt like i was only there to discredit, but i disagree that was i was doing. I was sincere

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also believe that ari jumped on me super strongly in a way that makes me think she was misrepping me and trying to discredit me

[humaneatingmonkey]

But i have really gotten the same type of scrutiny or microscope from dwlee titus std roden ESPECIALLY roden who might be the most inclined to be wary of scum! Hem

[humaneatingmonkey]

Implos also there weird

[humaneatingmonkey]

Maybe its implo/roden > std/titus/dwlee > aro in terms of "what are you doing iny wagon step bro"

[humaneatingmonkey]

why is shopping a scumtell titus

[humaneatingmonkey]

describing my play as "aesthetic" sounds like bullshit of the month

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay, in any case, i'll be absent from here on and only appearing to and for

watch my wagon. that's a wagon on town. if people push for it aggressively without trying to parse more info from me, that means it's scum-motivated. i haven't read the game beyond the posts i didn't make today.

Gosh golly this is a bad post. Town does not say "This future behavior: if this is what you see in the future, push the people who do it" because scum will just... not do that if they genuinely think it's going to get them caught.

I also want to reiterate this point because no one's mentioned it and I was genuinely surprised that no one else called this post scummy while I was rereading.

it's not a bad point if true but it's a note for rereading no future behavior

[humaneatingmonkey]

lol im being admitted right now and i think my next post is friday

if yall decide to L me, just watch out for people who just rode this wagon. yall smart and also i forgive you.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hi im in a lot of pain. can someone give me a rundown of how everyone will solve the game moving forward and if i'm satisfied I'll allow my elim. 80085 got me vanilla. i dont think there's much fighting this.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont like holding the game if everyone has already decided im d1's flip anyway

[humaneatingmonkey]

ari wheres my town meta

[humaneatingmonkey]

i scrolled and saw that people had if x is town then y is scum or some shit like that

[humaneatingmonkey]

if nothing like that then nvm me. just wait for when im better. if there is, i wanna hear it!

[humaneatingmonkey]

yep!

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm suspicious about Dwlee's progression on HEM. They say in post 480 they're voting HEM to sheep Ari. It definitely comes across as a weak read, saying they were basically just voting HEM because Ari said so until they were able to put more effort into sorting. This is mostly fair but some of their later posts rub me the wrong way with this in mind - particularly this post,

MathBlade and HEM probably are SvS

Math just ignored my response to his terrible read on me

The preflip associative here doesn't feel natural imo. Their read on HEM doesn't seem to have advanced - at least, they haven't shown any visible effort to sort HEM in thread, and considering HEM has been the largest wagon for most of the game I'd expect them to talk about their read more if it had. So tying Mathblade and HEM together as a 'probable' scumteam feels too confident from Dwlee here, if that makes sense.

Math is scum 100%

Similarly with this, I understand how the Dwlee math read could come from town but like, the 100% thing seems way too far, much worse than the whole 'I really feel Dwlee is scum' thing Math did.

YOU STOLE MY COMEBACK POST

[humaneatingmonkey]

Math don't worry I am town your efforts aren't wasted

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ari I've asked you again and again to describe my town meta and you've failed to answer me at every turn. Did you really do your meta on me on good faith? I thought you had metric ton of meta on me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

btw im back. i'm still in pain but im back there mentally and not constantly in opioids lol

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm gonna narrate and reflect on my memories from before I left (as an exercise because this game fell off my brain's priority list) and then I'm going to share my impressions of everything that has happened so far.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Thank you for waiting for me everybody.

[humaneatingmonkey]

...nevermind that's too much work i'm just going to iso everyone in my wagon like i've been doing

[humaneatingmonkey]

Without even seeing the other slots, Dwlee's vote stands out to me because it started out as a sheep on Ari because of how impressed they were of Ari's game.

I think HEM asked why I voted him — Last time I saw Aristeia like this she nailed Prism into a coffin. She gets my baa privilege until I have more effort into sorting personally

Be back later

I noticed it because it immediately implies Ari is town. So maybe this is Dwlee's first read? But we really didn't see much of a progression on why they thought Ari is town.

I can forgive that.

what do you think about dwlee

what do you think about HQ coming in to kind of soflty defend dwlee only

FMPOV HQ looks town for this

This is Dwlee's second read. If you squint really hard, you can almost see that it's a pocket.

But maybe that doesn't mean they're not town.

However things really break down when Math comes down hard at Dwlee. Dwlee immediately launches an OMGUS but uncharacteristically doesn't vote Math. (ignoring the urge too, they say.) I can understand if they would OMGUS as town, but what I can't understand is why they wouldn't move their vote towards Math to sort and to pressure when I'd be absent for a long time.

Now that's not town. Town wants to use their vote to pressure. Even as they approach 100% certainty, Dwlee doesn't move their vote.

I really feel Dwlee is scum.

Titus hasn’t given a reason other than “matching” and “trying”

I don’t see that here from them.

That has to be BS because you only think I'm scum rn because of things that aren't there rather than things that are. So you can't be that confident of anything

this is also a BS response from them.

MathBlade and HEM probably are SvS

Math just ignored my response to his terrible read on me

And this read was made without due consideration for what motive would scum!mathblade have for defending scum!me.

If I'm scum and Mathblade is scum, why risk their neck on protecting a buddy that has no way of defending themselves for 3 days when you score easy deepwolf points trying to woo people's confidence in you?

Here's what I'm thinking: They made the SvS read so they can still park their vote on me
And they did it without developing their read on anyone other than slots who they were 1. sheeping, 2. encouraging to townread them 3. omgusing. without regard

VOTE: Dwlee99

My vote can change as I ISO the rest of my wagon (and the rest of the game)

[humaneatingmonkey]

actually implo's iso isn't that bad. it's well-balanced and their progression makes sense up to this post that i've been reading.

A smattering of points on hem. I'm going to do this by just going backwards through his ISO because it'll hopefully avoid common ground with previous cases (plus I think their recent play is worse than their early play). And I will start by re-mentioning this. Their most recent post is very similar, and fit in line with what I described of hem's play being aesthetic rather than material: rather than picking out specific people and targeting them, or trying to appeal to specific people on the wagon, or really making any real effort to use their wagon to find scum... they just say "watch out for people who just rode this wagon". That'd be 8 people if the wagon goes to lim. Not exactly a useful statement. In context, as a last post they're making before they won't be available for a while (and where they think they could be limmed while gone) it feels even scummier; I think natural town inclinations in that situation would be things like a final reads list or a couple specific scumreads, or even something vindictive directed at people on the wagon. But a general "this wagon on me is sus" is utterly useless to the town in the event that hem is limmed.

The closest they got to calling out specific people on the wagon was here. They called out Aristeia for a while but even got shaky on that. I think what speaks volumes on their alignment is what's absent in their ISO, rather than what's present. 122 posts and as far as I can tell they have given exactly two actual reads: a now-retracted scumread on Aristeia that is the focus of roughly half their ISO, and an "I'll die by this read" townread on Mathblade. For most of the game they've been the second-most active player and yet they've left not a trace to tie themself to any other player. This is the brunt of what I mean by asethetic rather than substantive: while they are engaging with the game, they are not making any claims, reaching any conclusions, or, to borrow from MathBlade, creating any hypotheses.

I really can't fault implo for this because

1. even though i already said that the "watch out for people who just rode this wagon" is a note for re-reading, he probably have entrenched into the idea that it's for future behavior listening to excuses from scum!me. at this point, i was handling too much stuff that i was too lazy and preoccupied (was in the hospital a lot since Sunday for labs and tests) to do anything with this game. i wouldn't count it against him that he's scumreading me for this. i would.

2. i didn't retract my scumread on ari, just that i'm saying she's the most "didn't ride this wagon" in my wagon. i still want to know how ari would describe my town game because the things she say are exclusive in my scum game are things that i recognize that are also present in my town game and i was hoping she would see that. she has been ignoring that call for a while now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Mhm i lost interest in reading implo's other posts that aren't about me which is probably a good thing because there was nothing that felt egregious about them. Their whole spat with Mathblade felt like frustrated town than scum trying to discredit Mathblade, which I considered when reading the posts.

[humaneatingmonkey]

like in that game you interact with multiple slots

you do not death tunnel GLion right off the bat with bad faith lies. so I don't really understand how it's comparable to this one.

see you characterize my play this game as a "deathtunnel" when i fact i just wanted you to get to the point. the real heat came when you threw adjectives on me that felt was designed to discredit me more than anything else

[humaneatingmonkey]

also remind me what "bad faith lies" i made to you in this game?

[humaneatingmonkey]

in a game with chavela (dont remember the game) she felt as if i was attacking her when in fact i was trying to sort her. have you read that one? maybe you can recognize yourself in that one.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ari I'm answering you case right now

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll answer every point then in bold and caps to differentiate.

Spoiler: Explanation of why HEM is scum and his progression on me makes very little sense and is full of lies and gross inaccuracies/lies

initial vote - no explanation on why the vibes are bad or how they are different from other people.

NOT A LIE. ALSO EXPLAINED THIS.

note the timestamps on this - I really doubt town!hem really thinks I can take everyone's answers and give him numerical analysis because

(a) most people didn't respond or joke responded so I don't even have a data set to analyze

(b) it's like 5 hours between these posts.

(c) I don't think it's reasonable for him to expect me to give him an actual answer here so expecting one is kind of bad faith setting me up to fail and so he can continue his push.

HALF OF THE PEOPLE DID RESPOND. THEY DID NOT RESPOND IN JEST. YOU CAN RESPOND WHAT INTENTIONS YOU HAVE.
ALSO NOT A LIE.

this post is about the large number discussion I am having with Ausuka - he thinks it's not worth discussing because it's not great for reads and he wants to move on which is a kind of signaling. I believe scum!him thinks the context of the discussion is pointless - but this shouldn't actually be how town!him thinks because if he thinks I'm scum - then it should be good that Ausuka/Harley are pushing me on this. Instead he doesn't want them to interrogate me on my thoughts for ??? reasons.

I'M TRYING TO SORT YOU, SO I DON'T IMMEDIATELY WANT TO DISMISS YOU AS SCUM. I WANT US TO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT GIVE LIGHT TO YOUR ALIGNMENT THAT ISN'T ABOUT WHAT WAS BEING DISCUSSED. THE MOST ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE THING THAT I THINK CAN BE ANALYZED HERE WAS HOW MUCH YOU THOUGHT THIS WILL HELP YOU SORT US, AND THAT'S WHY I WANTED YOU TO GET TO THE POINT. NOT A LIE.

here he's digging back in - now it's good for the number discussion because he sees it as something to use to push me. He tries to consolidate based on a narrative that scum!me was doing "false setup spec" on page 1? There's no discussion of actual motivation - he just finds this a covenient thing to attack with because Ausuka has been pushing me for it - you can tell he doesn't actually believe it because he doesn't really explain how it makes sense for scum!me to pursue this.

Notice the slip here - the second sentence implies that it's "bad town strategy to choose high numbers". As in he's thought about whether it'd be good for town to pick high numbers, he's concluded it's bad and thus I am "scummy" for doing this "bad thing" - except he's picked a even larger number than me - which is why he tries to pick up the slip with the idea that 80085 is personally sentimental and he's fine doing things that are not good strategy.

This feels like something self-conscious scum would do rather than town. because if town concluded that picking bad numbers is actually bad strategy - they would just

not do it

.

Here he seems to think it is bad for town to pick large number so i'm bad for picking a large number but he also has to bend himself into a pretzel to attack me for picking the large number while excusing himself for picking an even larger number.

HERE I ALREADY DISCUSSED WHAT THE VIBES WERE. IT WAS FROM YOU TELLING US THAT HIGH NUMBERS ARE TOWN WHEN YOU WERE TOWN YOURSELF AND ASKING PEOPLE THAT YOU

he voted me for vibes. him forgetting what he voted me for originally and instead hijacking ausuka's argument feels like he never really remembered what he voted for me for in the first place.

implying it was bullshit vote he decided to double down on because it happened to have momentum

NO I VOTED YOU FOR THAT. NOT A LIE.

this is just pure revisionist nonsense.

he did not vote me for my comment about large numbers - he voted me for vibes. he decided to change what he was pushing me for after he saw Ausuka pushing me for "large numbers" he never even mentioned the large numbers thing until AFTER Ausuka started pushing me for it. He had previously stated in 128 that he didn't think the number discussion about large numbers was even useful so he clearly did not CARE about large numbers. He's now changing his story as if he was pushing me for the large number theory to begin with.

WHAT DID YOU THINK THE VIBES WERE FOR? EVENTUALLY I THOUGHT THE NUMBERS DISCUSSIONS WAS NOT USEFUL, BUT WHERE DID I SAY I DIDN'T CARE FOR IT? I WANTED IT DONE AND EXPLAINED. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

this is the first "read" of someone other than me he's made.

it feels conveniently like scum trying to recruit an ally.

I would imagine he would've gotten reads of at least Ausuka for how she's pushing me about Large Numbers but instead he's basically said nothing about anyone's alignment other than tunneling me up to this point.

It does not feel like something organic

NOT A LIE. AUSUKA WAS EXCLUSIVELY ENGAGING YOU ON THE MERIT OF YOUR NUMBERS DISCUSSION AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO MAKE SENSE OUT OF IT. GAMMA WAS LOOKING AT GAME-RELEVANT THINGS.

This is the part that really triggered me.

He is making the implication that I have not done enough to persuade people because I do not actually care about getting this information.

It's grossly bad faith because I have tried multiple times to convince people to give me three numbers - 45 57 58 76 80 115 121

I have tried to be nice about this. I do care.

For him to misrep me as "not caring" is a ridiculously bad faith interpretation of my efforts this game. It annoys me because either he hasn't read my posting or he doesn't care about my posting and he's just making up whatever fake narrative he thinks will make me look bad instead of actually examining if I actually care about this number guessing thought experiment.

I thought it would be fun to have everyone guess 3 numbers and see if we could get some info out of it because

(1) scum know what they picked(tmi) and they want to make their guesses look like town guesses
(2) town do not know what scum picked
(3) the information could be useful down the line, it might not be useful down the line, I don't really know but if there's some anomaly that pops up it could be cool to think about.

If nobody wants to do it I'm not going to hijack the thread and just rant about it for like 10 days? I can scumhunt fine without it so I was moving on but he comes back and claims its proof that I'm scum because ????

YOU DELIBERATELY REFUSED TO EXPLAIN WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO AFTER TAKING UP MUCH SPACE IN EARLY GAME. IT WAS ALL THAT WAS NEEDED FOR THE EXPERIMENT TO CONTINUE — TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF. NOT A LIE.

This is him trying to back away and pretending he was actually sorting in good faith/being nice.

Which is kind of ridiculous because as you can see above, roughly 90% of his posts are just shitpushing me with made up narratives and lies.

him claiming that I am "not motivated to solve the game" when I have double the number of posts of anyone else and I'm literally answering any questions sent to me and talking/engaging with multiple slots is ludicrious and a total lie.

also his line about wanting to "help me squeeze out answers" is complete bullshit - I challenge anyone to pick out a single post in his iso prior to this where he is "trying to help me"

IF THIS IS YOUR LINE OF THINKING, THEN I DON'T BLAME YOU FOR REACHING THIS CONCLUSION. BUT IT'S NOT A LIE.

this remark makes very little sense because he's trying to placate me and convince me not to come after him because he's refering to a game where we were T/T and we fought for a while - except

(1) he supposedly thinks im lockscum so why is he even worried about this?

(2) if he thinks i'm town where is the reconsideration/evaluation of my alignment? literally every post up to here is just shitpushing me for made up narratives in his head.

WHERE DID I SAY YOU WERE LOCKSCUM? THE RECONSIDERATION OF YOUR ALIGNMENT WAS THERE ALL ALONG. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

this feels like he's trying to de-escalate to prevent this 1v1 from going full nuclear -

but it doesn't actually make sense for town!him to de-escalate if he thinks I'm mafia

Like I'm right here for him to sort but instead of sorting he's trying to placate me and see if he can get me to back off

THIS IS FROM YOU USING BAD FAITH ADJECTIVES TO DOGWHISTLE THAT IM A PIECE OF SHIT.

more fake narrative nonsense. like I'm literally right there for him to sort but instead of asking me about my thoughts or literally anything game relevant he decides he wants to just try different colors of shade and see what works.

THIS IS HOW I FELT ABOUT YOU AND THIS IS NOT A LIE.

literally nothing in HEM's iso makes me think he is trying to sort me in good faith. literally most of his posts are shit tunneling me and I don't even think any of his reasoning is actually believable - his progression on me is literally a lie.

THE RECONSIDERATION OF YOUR ALIGNMENT WAS THERE ALL ALONG. THIS IS NOT A LIE.

blaming me for this 1v1 is kind of rich because his entire iso is a shit tunnel of me whereas I'm actually engaging with multiple people so it's just a gross misrep of how we got here.

THIS IS ALSO A GROSS MISREP OF HOW WE GOT HERE AND SELF-CENTERED IF YOU THINK YOUR PERSPECTIVE IS THE ONLY VALID ONE.

TLDR:

HEM is a player who enjoys using aggression as scum to get townread and push mis-elims.

AND ALSO AS SCUM TO READ PEOPLE AND PUSH SCUM.

I do not believe his push of me is in good faith, his progression is mostly made up and there are several glaring inconsistencies/outright lies.

THERE WAS NO LIE.

I have not felt like he is trying to sort me in good faith at any point during my conversation with him.

THE FEELING IS MUTUAL.

[humaneatingmonkey]

*Also as town to read people and push scum INB4 SCUMSLIP GOTCHA BOOYAH >.>

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll come back later. Sorry to cut this short. Still not out of the hospital bed (can't walk yet so much pain)

[humaneatingmonkey]

THIS IS FROM YOU USING BAD FAITH ADJECTIVES TO DOGWHISTLE THAT IM A PIECE OF SHIT.

again

this is a game of mafia

it is a game of social deduction

some of us got dealt "mafia rolecards"

that does not make them "pieces of shit"

people have to be mafia for this game to actually work.

I do not know you outside of this game.

I would never say that you are a piece of shit because

I do not know you

This is probably the fourth time I've said this to you.

If you actually believe that my remarks are about you as a person rather than your play in a game where some of us have to lie then I suggest you report me to the appropriate site authorities rather than continue to AtE with this.

if you want me to explain my past behavior, you're gonna have to deal with how i felt at that moment. again and again and again.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're being ridiculous

it's just kind of gross the way you are characterizing my behavior.

like incredibly disgusting to me

I made a simple request because I thought it would be fun icebreaker and might possibly be useful later

I asked people for three numbers, not a big ask imo

most people refuse to do it

I am fine with that because I don't enjoy forcing people to do things and it's just a game

and your response is to just assume I was never interested in the first place and asking in bad faith.

it's just not a line of thinking that I think is appropriate or remotely decent.

I find it quite icky

I am not calling you scum for it because I don't think being obnoxious is outside of your town range.

okay so it makes me a bad person to react negatively to this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm not hung up on it. i can understand mafia can get heated. i'm just explaining a pov i had.

[humaneatingmonkey]

are we nearing deadline? i've been sleeping on and off today. nasty nausea from weaning off opioids. I'll be more myself tomorrow i think. really sorry for the disappointment.

[humaneatingmonkey]

math going for my wagon is interesting. was my wagon dying? so maybe math is scum who wanted my flip all along but just wanted to whiteknight.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i really dont know why scum would still want my wagon after saying im vt. there are more interesting things to do, like running up random wagons to get a claim. is that risky in this gamestate? i have no idea.

[humaneatingmonkey]

honestly i'm baffled i'm not elimmed i really thought that wagon will push through.

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay back to sleep.

im not gonna give a readslist because like i said i have no idea what's going on this game thus far and im stuck in the past.

[humaneatingmonkey]

tomorrow good night

[humaneatingmonkey]

uhhh.. im not disinterested in my own death. maybe before my surgery because i didn't know how long I'll be knocked out for and i didn't have the focus to fight my death (+ i didn't really want to hold the game, so IMO if d1 will flip town, there's no one better). but now im confident i can feel better and actually play this game soon. i'm more pointing out that scum would have switched after my claim because it's more advantageous for them to run up another slot and get another claim. it's basic d1 scum strat. so im kinda reconsidering if i'm still right that there's scum in my wagon. i could see that there's at least one so that the option doesn't fade away.

[humaneatingmonkey]

how did math switch to me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i thought he was 100% certain i was town and he was hard defending me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

math what's up

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's a lot of pages to catch-up on souldraining.

[humaneatingmonkey]

uhhh.. im not disinterested in my own death. maybe before my surgery because i didn't know how long I'll be knocked out for and i didn't have the focus to fight my death (+ i didn't really want to hold the game, so IMO if d1 will flip town, there's no one better). but now im confident i can feel better and actually play this game soon. i'm more pointing out that scum would have switched after my claim because it's more advantageous for them to run up another slot and get another claim. it's basic d1 scum strat. so im kinda reconsidering if i'm still right that there's scum in my wagon. i could see that there's at least one so that the option doesn't fade away.

I look forward to seeing your grand re-entry

thank you!

[humaneatingmonkey]

you know it's hard to care about this game if every time i pop in, i check if anyone has responded to me and i come back and people just continue to talk about how scummy my posts are.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i towncased implo. i scumcased dwlee. i towncased math, and asked everyone what happened about that. and yet people keep on twisting my shit to mean that it's scum. no one engages me. i ask ari to describe my town meta and she just regurgitates her "but you lied" even though i did a whole post to debunk that.

at this point there's really no point to playing this game anymore especially since im way behind and that's being used against me as "antispew". if everyone is resigned to flipping me before the gamestate moves on then i suggest just go ahead with it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think ari has been bad faith with her meta and her push on me. she shows no signs of reconsideration even though i engaged her about it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

the push started from early game and she has sat on that. i think she has been townreading everyone who agrees with her just so she can influence the game to this mislim. otherwise, i see no reason for her to continue seeing me as scum even though she has "mountains of meta" on me. everyone who has played with me before knows that i am aggressive town or scum. where did i lie? that's her whole thing about me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i mean, anyone who thinks it's mathblade + hem is being blind or dishonest at this point. there's no reason mathblade harddefends me as scum here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

math i already asked you this but what happened why did you vote me

[humaneatingmonkey]

hem + mathblade also doens't make sense because we hardly have any influence n the game. i';m out and mathblade is basically being shit on.

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you know how hard math plays as scum? this is not it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you know how hard i play scum? this is not it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i mean, anyone who thinks it's mathblade + hem is being blind or dishonest at this point. there's no reason mathblade harddefends me as scum here.

this is about titus.

[humaneatingmonkey]

when's the last time anyone has heard from enchant?

[humaneatingmonkey]

no "pressure wagon" has formed there. no one asked why

[humaneatingmonkey]

dude has 19 posts in an 81 page game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

as long as i'm not elimmed, i'll try and iso people and give my thoughts. but i don't think i want to do anything else other than that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i mean as long as i'm not elimmed. i know this day ends with my death anyway. so I'll just shut up and work.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not asking ari to town case me. im asking her to describe my town meta.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if she's trying to meta case me then she should have detected a strong contrast to how i play as town vs how i play as scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont think she has mentioned my town meta once.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's to make a point that her meta case is bad faith as shit

[humaneatingmonkey]

I've literally never seen town!you demand something like that in your past town games.

like this, see?

[humaneatingmonkey]

every time i prompt her to explain, she just blanketly says "you play different" but yeah citation needed.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think the case on you scum is kinda solid honestly.

okay which one?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You’re actively avoiding giving reads on almost all slots

i just gave you a titus read and i just gave you an enchant read. i'm trying my best sir.

You’re trying to use aggression to mask conversation

how have i been aggressive in this game??

what tactics?

[humaneatingmonkey]

like in that game you interact with multiple slots

you do not death tunnel GLion right off the bat with bad faith lies. so I don't really understand how it's comparable to this one.

this is what i mean by regurgitate. you just keep on saying i made bad faith lies but there was not a single lie and i debunked your whole case already. if you refuse to acknowledge that, then i don't blame you if your agenda is to elim me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im not asking ari to town case me. im asking her to describe my town meta.

Do you think you're playing to your town meta this game?

If you're claiming that you are playing to your town meta, and you want Ari to describe your town meta, you are effectively asking her to town case you.

describing my town meta is basic courtesy if you're doing a meta case and if describing it unravels your case then your case is shit in the first place.

[humaneatingmonkey]

you’d have a premise you’re exploring

i HAVE one. please read my posts.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'll be back in 3 hours or so.

[humaneatingmonkey]

holy shit ari you're like the GOAT town

[humaneatingmonkey]

no i was definitely blowing it out of proportion because that's the only pathetic defense i can muster in a very hectic period of my life i was enjoying you!

[humaneatingmonkey]

Yeah Datisi FUCKED us

[humaneatingmonkey]

Honestly wish I should have just replaced out