Micro 1056: Moderators of the Discord Server [game over]

[RH9]

I don’t think choices can be undone

Yeah.
Choices are locked in during this phase.

[RH9]

have u played in one of these setups b4 rh9?

I replaced into a previous run which Prism modded.
I was scum with Luke and imaginality.
I'll just link it here for reference.
Also, implo said from that game that Wall is the easiest game for scum.

[RH9]

I have a good plan for Sillyposting if Luke remains there after the Night swap.
Let him vote first.
I remember that he did that last time as scum and Town won the minigame.
As for what minigame I would like to choose, I would prefer Sillyposting so that I can use my plan but the others are fine for me.

[RH9]

Now that Sillyposting is gone, do you have a preference between the other two?

I'd also caution people that anyone going into SGB automatically ends the day.

I'm not sure who you are asking but Mafia Discussion seems like a better choice because the conftown usually decides last while the other two players crossvote.

[RH9]

Now that Sillyposting is gone, do you have a preference between the other two?

I'd also caution people that anyone going into SGB automatically ends the day.

I'm not sure who you are asking but Mafia Discussion seems like a better choice because the conftown usually decides last while the other two players crossvote.

It was to you, I will try to make my posts more clear when in sequence like that.

Can you go further with why that functionality makes MD a better fit for you or more preferable to SGB? You can be a crossvoter or the clear, so it's not obvious which one you'd like to be or if it's something about the overall dynamic.

It's to do with the dynamic.
I like the idea of knowing other people's alignments in your minigame. It makes solving easier because then you get a good idea of what to do.
And to be honest, it's mostly the idea of crossvoting and pressuring the clear to make the right decision that gives Gate (Mafia Discussion) its appeal.

[RH9]

Although with the swip swapping around I'm not sure how best to approach forming a group?

Actually would it not be good to have a 3 townie channel? To restrict what the mafia can do with the swap at the very least.

I guess that D1 groups are good for getting people's intentions.
Regarding your second suggestion, it would be great theoretically though I'm unsure on how things will unfold.

[RH9]

VOTE: Mafia Discussion

[RH9]

This might sound bizarre but I think that the interactions between Dwlee and marci seem like they are aligned, possibly even scum together.
What does everybody else think?

[RH9]

This might sound bizarre but I think that the interactions between Dwlee and marci seem like they are aligned, possibly even scum together.
What does everybody else think?

i wanna know what made you think this.

im pretty sure at this point their push on me is partly in fact that theyre scum and partly fact they seem to hate me

I would admit that their interaction's with you reminded me of how me and Luke interacted when we were scum together during Prism's run.
Also, how you signed up to Stop Getting Banned in your first post as a test. It feels almost like you had a plan.
But then, maybe I'm just being nitpicky and a bit unfair.

[RH9]

Fun fact: Dragons/Faker/me are confirmed not to be the scumteam because if we were, we would win from the day end rule

Kinda surprised no one (especially RH9) thought of this? (Faker touched on the rule earlier but not this specific scenario iirc)
Like RH9 going into MD could’ve just let scum insta-win but luckily that’s not happening

Also because of this, the next channel choice should be the one for whoever goes into SGB, to make sure we can’t instalose

Oh.
Thanks for telling me.
I didn't realise that before.

[RH9]

Hitting right notes, happy with Occam's Razor.

Not going to rush it still but with that post, I strongly think Luke->marci wins the game outright. Even with SGB slanted in scum's favor it is never worth it for me as a player to trade 1 for 1, Luke flipping town should essentially clear me despite his statement.

What makes you say this?
I know the whole Luke-marci thing but what makes you think that SGB is slanted? You don't think that I am Town, do you?
Because it's obviously slanted against scum otherwise. I have made clear my read on Dwlee meaning that scum!them would probably try to get STD to agree to voting me. Meanwhile, there's STD who's unsuspected and who I doubt is scum.

[RH9]

By the way, the swap reinforced my reads.
I think that Dwlee was distancing from marci during D1 so that when they were apart and marci flipped red, scum could use this flip to make STD misvote.

[RH9]

I am speaking strictly mechanically when I say SGB is slanted towards scum. It is a basic 3 way no clear, and it is more likely for scum to win than the town.

I don't really have a read on you, no.

Got that.
Thanks for explaining.

[RH9]

By the way, the swap reinforced my reads.
I think that Dwlee was distancing from marci during D1 so that when they were apart and marci flipped red, scum could use this flip to make STD misvote.

ur being a bit dumb rn

why would mexdwlee team bet our cards on dragons when at the start of it all, we didnt know who our third would be?

Oh right.
I forgot that.

[RH9]

By the way, what does everybody think of a Pooky-marci-Dwlee team?
I'm leaning there right now.

[RH9]

Honestly, I agree with Dwlee that we should resolve MD next.
It feels somewhat safer because I trust Meuh more to make a good decision.

[RH9]

before pooky was revealed

i thought dwlee was town and RH9 more likely to be a hacker

but after pooky was revealed

i thought the opposite because pooky's interaction with dwlee appears S/T and pooky's interaction with RH9 is non-existent (which makes sense for it to be S/S)

If I'm not misinterpreting, you thought that Dwlee was Town and now you think that Pooky/Dwlee is S/S.
That doesn't sound like you thought the opposite.

[RH9]

Is it bad that in my perspective, if Dwlee is Town, then STD is scum but STD feels too jovial to be scum?

[RH9]

why do you think dwlee is town

I don't.
I think that they feel pretty non-committal. Other than voicing a suspicion on marci and stating their intention to reaccess Pooky, they have zero reads on us.
They don't even mention me which according to you, Pooky did, and you used to justify your SR on me.

[RH9]

My point is that not mentioning somebody is NAI.
For example, Penguin who has flipped Town, never mentioned me.
If Pooky mentioning marci, Dwlee and you make you and Dwlee Town, then what does a flipped Town not mentioning me, you and Dwlee mean?
Plus, who do you think I'm even scum with?

[RH9]

It's not when someone flips scum

Why?
Can you please explain to me?

[RH9]

Honestly, I agree with Dwlee that we should resolve MD next.
It feels somewhat safer because I trust Meuh more to make a good decision.

Tracking through your posts, you think marcistar is the scum in this minigame. 277 seems to be your best statement of it: It's all related to earlygame with Dwlee99 and her initial votelock on SGB.

Has your read on this game evolved as we've continued to play? You also haven't ventured a read on me at all, which I find pretty surprising.

Yeah. My read has evolved. I've been starting to reconsider my read on Dwlee. In a vacuum, they actually seem all right though a bit non-committal as seen in 253.
However, this conflicts with my read on STD, who reads as wrongly tunnelled Town as in his latest stream of posts.
Especially, the amount of insight that he has put in. If I had to bet for scum out of my minigame, I would be forced to say Dwlee despite improvements in my read of them.

[RH9]

As for my read on you, I have complex opinions.

Man, I really hope I don't get nightkilled this game.

The quoted made me feel like it was dumbtell because I would expect you to know that GotF had no NK.
Your jovial tone during D1 also brought up alarm bells because you almost never act tongue-in-cheek in every game that I've played with you and during those games, you were Town.

However, from D2 onwards, your tone started to improve and partially due to my SR on marci, you're now a TR.

[RH9]

RH9, what do you make of Dwlee99 instantly joining marcistar in SGB?

This could be coordinated, but it heavily restricts any swaps. Autoloss is not hard to dodge in a scenario, but scum are now forced to take one of those two players and put them in whichever game winds up with 2 town.

This double-lock again happened before they have any idea of what the town players were thinking or what their reads were.

I think that since Pooky flipped, it's likely that scum!Pooky with his expertise and experience, made a plan and convinced marci and Dwlee to follow along.
It's likely that Dwlee had intentionally joined marci so that Town, not expecting two scum to engage in such a risky behaviour, would view this as unaligned. I also think that Pooky engineered his interactions with both so that when Sillyposting flipped (as is the norm), whoever the Town are in SGB would be convinced that Dwlee was Town.
I think that swapping marci was always the plan but when it came out that they needed to swap marci into MD, the scum decided to leave you with her, because I had already suggested my belief that marci and Dwlee was aligned and "possibly even scum together".

[RH9]

284 was a complete joke where the punchline was that I couldn't get nightkilled. I expected no one to think I forgot one existed. It was also partially a reference to this account's last game, Coalition, where I replaced in for night phase but was instantly nightkilled and never got to play.

The Newbie we played I wasn't very joking, but I'm a born shitposter at heart. I have a duality of being probably one of the most intense players to ever touch the site, but outside of the game I'm a much more jester-like personality and take virtually nothing seriously. Some games are heavier on one side than others, for this one I have tried extremely hard to keep a balance of intense but not venomously so. This is a long-term project of mine and I'm happy with this game so far. The short episode with Penguin was acrimonious but both an exception, and progress compared to how vicious I can often be with my critique.

Anyway, if my jovial tone becomes a concern at any point, you can see the competing venomous/shitposting switches on display in plenty of town games of mine. Chara's Folly, Mini Normal 2181, and Slaughter Hour (all on Prism) just to name a few. This account's 9:12 also was very lighthearted until a very serious accusation got thrown out.

Oh.
I see.

[RH9]

Meuh, who do you want eliminated the most from SGB?
Same goes for Faker and marci.
I want to see your reads because it could potentially impact my decision if we are to resolve SGB after MD.

[RH9]

I think that since Pooky flipped, it's likely that scum!Pooky with his expertise and experience, made a plan and convinced marci and Dwlee to follow along.

Mmmmm knowing Pooky I strongly disagree with this. Even in his best scum games he's not really dictatorial and is more focused on having fun with his partners and kind of trolling around hoping for the best. You can see this free-wheeling style on display in these two scum PTs, which weren't cherrypicked but were just the first games I thought of where he rolled scum. If he sees a great strategic plan he will advance it, but telling his partners exactly where to go and what to do pregame isn't his style.

If it happened at all, it was probably a joking suggestion by one of the parties where they all just say YOLO and go for it. They then debate the merits of the swaps overnight.

I see.

It's likely that Dwlee had intentionally joined marci so that Town, not expecting two scum to engage in such a risky behaviour, would view this as unaligned.

I think it's certainly plausible to do so, but why do you think it's likely?

I think so because that's exactly the sort of thing scum!me would do. Flip most people's expectations.
There's nothing better than making people think that it's impossible because people are easily tricked into believing anything that fits their narrative.

I also think that Pooky engineered his interactions with both so that when Sillyposting flipped (as is the norm), whoever the Town are in SGB would be convinced that Dwlee was Town.

I think Pooky having good interactions with his partners is a given. I could nitpick but I don't think it'd be productive; I just think this is a hasty conclusion to assume he planned this far in advance before the swaps were even decided. He didn't interact with Dwlee99, or any SGB poster, much on Day 2.

I see.

I think that swapping marci was always the plan but when it came out that they needed to swap marci into MD, the scum decided to leave you with her, because I had already suggested my belief that marci and Dwlee was aligned and "possibly even scum together".

Swap speculations are difficult because we're kind of working backwards here: You came up with a world where Dwlee99/marci decide to swap you and marcistar. This is really hard to put stock in here, though, because of what I talked about earlier with Dragons: Dragons really did not enjoy a previous 3 way with me, and there's a good chance he never wants to touch any minigame with me.

If both teams would make this specific swap, it's hard to say that knowing why they would inherently makes this one team more likely than the other. Swapping me/Dragons doesn't seem terrible, admittedly, and that would have been an option for Dragons/marcistar.

That's true.
Thanks for the food for thought.
I'll consider these swap scenarios.

[RH9]

To be honest, I would like to hear more from Dwlee.

[RH9]

By the way, what does everybody think of a Pooky-marci-Dwlee team?
I'm leaning there right now.

Why was Pooky in here?

From my PoE.
I TRed Luke and Penguin, leaving behind him.

[RH9]

By the way, what does everybody think of a Pooky-marci-Dwlee team?
I'm leaning there right now.

Why was Pooky in here?

From my PoE.
I TRed Luke and Penguin, leaving behind him.

To be honest, I actually had Penguin in the PoE originally.
However, I would admit that one reason I moved him to a TR was mainly because I trusted Luke's read on Pooky.
As for my TR on Luke, it was that switch from jovial to serious. I know Luke's scumgame and he's not the sort to suddenly change from jovial to serious in one phase.

[RH9]

this game is so boring with faker being so obviously scum

i honestly dont get what rh9 is going on about rn, whats the use on commenting on dead ppl when u can instead use that energy and focus it into reading the people in ur minigame?

Firstly, Faker isn't exactly obvscum because the rest of us lack the extra insight that you have. We only know that between you and her, there's one moderator and one hacker.
Secondly, my comments were in response to Faker's posts. Not only that, these rereads are good help for my reads on my minigame. It helps me develop my reads.

[RH9]

By the way, I am aware that that post wasn't directed to me.

[RH9]

@RH9 so you scumread Pooky because Luke said so?

Yeah.
You got me.
It was mainly because of that.

[RH9]

Firstly, Faker isn't exactly obvscum because the rest of us lack the extra insight that you have. We only know that between you and her, there's one moderator and one hacker.

fakers obv scum to me, and thats what makes it boring, when i already know part of the answer >.<
isnt she obviously buddying u? i feel like its v obv to me that thats what shes been doing.

Again, it isn't obvious that she's buddying me.
I have no idea of scum!Faker so there's no way for me to tell her intentions.

Secondly, my comments were in response to Faker's posts. Not only that, these rereads are good help for my reads on my minigame. It helps me develop my reads.

i dont see you trying to tie it back to any surviving players.

Well.
To be honest with you, I haven't.
However, I hope to achieve this soon.

[RH9]

The current plan is also to flip MD first, so even if I'm trying to steer RH9 away from scumreading my partner in SGB, it all goes out the window when my alignment gets confirmed before any SGB votes happen. There's literally zero point in buddying anyone in that minigame, the only person I have to convince is Meuh.

That's so true.
Any attempt you and marci try to make to sway anybody in SGB, the more interactions we have to use after you flip.
This makes any swaying attempts awkward especially since it could backfire.

[RH9]

really? its obvious to me that shes trying to buddy you,
ever since sillyposting ended, shes been focusing mainly on interacting with you, and making sure you feel like your thoughts are heard, while shooting down anything that might be a valid thoughtprocess. thats pretty buddying behavior IMO. I can get examples if you still dont believe me but theres alot of them :shrug:

Good idea, actually.
Could you please find. examples of Faker buddying?
I probably missed them all.

[RH9]

Faker, is this directed at me?

[RH9]

Honestly, I agree with Dwlee that we should resolve MD next.
It feels somewhat safer because I trust Meuh more to make a good decision.

Tracking through your posts, you think marcistar is the scum in this minigame. 277 seems to be your best statement of it: It's all related to earlygame with Dwlee99 and her initial votelock on SGB.

Has your read on this game evolved as we've continued to play? You also haven't ventured a read on me at all, which I find pretty surprising.

Yeah. My read has evolved. I've been starting to reconsider my read on Dwlee. In a vacuum, they actually seem all right though a bit non-committal as seen in 253.
However, this conflicts with my read on STD, who reads as wrongly tunnelled Town as in his latest stream of posts.
Especially, the amount of insight that he has put in. If I had to bet for scum out of my minigame, I would be forced to say Dwlee despite improvements in my read of them.

What's non-committal about it? Them saying Pooky could also be the cat? That felt more jokey than anything. I'd like an expansion of the thought here.

The second part.
They vaguely mentioned a "plan".

[RH9]

The current plan is also to flip MD first, so even if I'm trying to steer RH9 away from scumreading my partner in SGB, it all goes out the window when my alignment gets confirmed before any SGB votes happen. There's literally zero point in buddying anyone in that minigame, the only person I have to convince is Meuh.

That's so true.
Any attempt you and marci try to make to sway anybody in SGB, the more interactions we have to use after you flip.
This makes any swaying attempts awkward especially since it could backfire.

I'd agree with this if we weren't already a game down. Scum are much more likely to delve into potentially associative - but credible - play to secure a win somewhere since that's all they need. There might not be an "after you flip", which is scary but something to consider.

Though I guess with the idea of us flipping MD first that makes sense. So mostly nvm

Yeah.
Good point.
I'll take that into mind.

[RH9]

i think rh9 has a hard time reassessing his reads after someone pulls something over him.

Only when I actually get super confbiased. I have a huge weakness for casing. I've lost a game as Town when the final Mafia gave a really good case which swayed me over.

[RH9]

Good idea, actually.
Could you please find. examples of Faker buddying?
I probably missed them all.

670 reads like shes trying to feed you a read a certain way (the explanation after the question makes it that way)
681 same thing, shes trying to pick apart your reads and shoot down any progressive thought process.. but shes trying to do it in a way that won't agitate you. notice in the post how she hasnt said its a bad thought process at all? she just calls it "surprising" which is a sort of buddy buddy way of shooting down a read without making a person angry.
688 not buddying, but its like she isn't stating a suspicion on any of the stop getting banned players in that post; shes replying to you in a non accusatory way, she states somethings "in dwlees favor", she gives a "dragons isnt out of range" but in a half way where she doesnt use it further later on. she isnt hunting.
maybe buddying isnt the right word for these posts, its hard to do this while im tired..
alot of her posts regarding you is just asking questions/pushing your read forward which i view as a form of buddying. <670, 681 fit this> its like shes trying to get in your head and appear helpful and solving, when in reality she isn't putting in the work and she's making you do the brunt of it. she isnt outright doing stuff that will offend and trigger you, but shes doing it like back of the mind sort of thing
690 reads super buddyie imo

I would say that from the posts that you've referenced, Faker is more or less just being assertive.
However, I still don't think that she is trying to directly buddy because I can't help advance her wincon if she's scum.

[RH9]

ur deadass such a good player faker!! its so frustrating im so inferior

This isn't directed at me but I think that scum!you is roughly around as convincing as scum!Faker.
(I once glimpsed at her scumgame in Open 843.)

[RH9]

ur deadass such a good player faker!! its so frustrating im so inferior

This isn't directed at me but I think that scum!you is roughly around as convincing as scum!Faker.
(I once glimpsed at her scumgame in Open 843.)

i dont th8nk im very convincing as either alignment ngl

one of my friends told me

good players have 2 qualtities
being right and being convincing

i at best only have the be right because thats just how i focus my time

I see.

[RH9]

But then also they pushed each other from day 1, right? That makes less sense because Pooky getting to win sillyposting seemed unlikely at the time right?
So they wouldn't be planning that S/T stuff

That's true.
Good catch.

[RH9]

God I am so fucking wiped and my mind doesn't work right.

I hope that you feel better.

[RH9]

idk how yall can be so blind tbhs

What did I miss?

[RH9]

fakers scum

Oh.
Got that.

[RH9]

OTOH RH9 is clearly posting just to post

I did that as Town in Holiday Party, remember.

[RH9]

Contextually this is a better explanation, but I actually find this somewhat persuasive because of the time difference.

There's a 12 minute difference, and I would not be surprised if RH9 realized afterwards that 485 was

before

Penguin posted. Having a townread on him would therefore make no sense, and this is something I think RH9 would feel compelled to fix as scum. It's a bit weird to come back later here as town.

It's NAI.
I do it when I realise that something's wrong with my memory.

[RH9]

Do you have any thoughts I feel like you are mostly deflecting

I do.
I'm still not fully awake.
I'll post them later.

[RH9]

I would like to give my thoughts on some scummy behaviour that I haven't seen yet but want all to be aware off.
In my experience, scum vote in Wall (SGB) before Gate (MD) is resolved.
While this hasn't occurred yet, I can't help but feel that it might happen.
Also, I am unhappy with how NAI things are being treated as AI.

[RH9]

I do buy his explanation around D&C

This isn't clear.

I'm referring to our back and forth about why he was fine with me being so vocal and steering so much of this game, where he chalked the lesson of D&C more to the absence of Dunnstral.

This is a perfect example why the reasoning in 841 is faulty.
By your logic, I should be SRing you for clarifying.

[RH9]

Actually, no.
Your logic is that I took 12 minutes to clarify.
You took only less than one.

[RH9]

Oh.
I get it now.
Thanks, Faker.
Sorry for the false accusations.

[RH9]

To be honest right now, I would want Dwlee to vote before STD.
I trust him more not to quickhammer.

[RH9]

In case it wasn't clear I trust STD more not to quickhammer.

[RH9]

To be honest right now, I would want Dwlee to vote before STD.
I trust him more not to quickhammer.

I thought we are trying to resolve the other game first?

Basically what STD said.
When we resolve SGB, I would prefer you to vote before him because I trust him more not to quickhammer.

[RH9]

I think that Dwlee only did one notice thing during this Day phase.

[RH9]

It's nice of Dwlee99 but it's not like I don't solve or put in effort tracking as scum; my entire shtick is out-solving the town to strongarm and then use that position to control where attention goes. If RH9 is town and I'd be advancing a miselim great, but bussing is also pretty free for me with how the game currently is.

That's cool.
I didn't know that you had such a strong scumgame.
Now, I'm feeling worried that marci might be right that I should be concerned about buddy attempts.
Though, I feel concerned that marci might be trying to buddy me as of late.

[RH9]

Unfortunately without that we get maybe 5 posts a day and things slow down to a crawl.

Are you sure that STD wasn't just busy IRL and that it was pure coincidence?

[RH9]

That wasn't a statement about Dragons specifically, but the lethargy of the broader game.

Oh.
I see.

[RH9]

can we do something spicy this game just feels like the same points over and over again my reads are barely changing

someone else talk!!

Did you miss all of STD's posts?
He made some good points lately.

[RH9]

what posts

840 and 844
He showed active attempts to solve and sort players in those posts.

[RH9]

RH9/marci makes a good bit of sense, even if not as much as Dragons/marci. I can see RH9 not really wanting to go against me, and clearing me is even more unpalatable. marcistar might think she can tonally manipulate you into a win and Pooky probably encourages her to give it a shot, YOLO.

I would have loved to go against you as scum.
It would be more fun anyways.
I wouldn't have anything to worry.
It's much better letting my scumpartner win in SGB than doing that myself.
It'll be easier.

[RH9]

As much as I want to believe it that third line is an...extremely strong statement and feels like a bluff. The first 2 I would buy.

How about the fourth?

[RH9]

LMAO

SGB is the easiest game for scum to win. It means it's easier if you think you've got a better chance to win against me in MD than marcistar would, which I'm honestly not sure if that's what you're arguing but part of me really hopes you are.

I'd love some RH9 trash talk about how you'd run my ass out of town NO SWEAT

I lost Wall last time as scum.
I think that MD allows for more coordinated pocketing by scum which I think marci is failing at.
But then, I'm Town so most of what I say is hypothetical and based off my experience in Open 840.

[RH9]

I can see a world where you go to MD and clear me honestly.

I dunno SGB is such a fucked game, lmao

This is directed towards me, right?

[RH9]

It was, yes.

To make it more clear, "I can see a world where [as mafia] you go to MD and clear me [in an attempt to pocket me and win the 1v1 against someone else] honestly." This is in contrast to the world we're in, where you're obviously not in MD.

I see.
TBH, I was going to suggest that in a scum!me world, clearing you in addition to swapping Meuh and marci would be ideal.

[RH9]

@mod

I will be on V/LA from this Friday to next Monday.

[RH9]

what posts

840 and 844
He showed active attempts to solve and sort players in those posts.

I think this is overstated

OK.
It was a bit but I still think that STD is putting in a lot of effort in solving.

[RH9]

RH9, any thoughts on 923 and 925?

I think that the quoted posts in 923 from marci are unusual because she seems to be TRing STD for his interactions with you. But outside of those interactions, it seems that there isn't much reason why he's being TRed.
I'm not sure about 925 though marci seems mildly defensive in the quoted post. Though, I'm not sure if that is AI.

[RH9]

I think there's a little further to go in 925 that I did not make more implicit.

If this is true: I know marcistar is town in this game + I notice the differences in Eurybia (which marcistar agrees exist) -> I'd have scumread marcistar in Eurybia for those differences.

Then: I didn't scumread marcistar in Eurybia -> I either didn't notice the differences between the games, or

I instead knew that marcistar isn't town this game

.

Her saying "The games are circumstantially different!" is not the defense she thinks it is.

This isn't 100% airtight and there are other possibilities, but I hope the simplification helps illustrate my point. (ex. There is also no evidence in Eurybia that I based my read on this game at all, as it should be. I also might have noticed marcistar was town in Eurybia despite the differences, then move to exploit them.)

I see.
This makes more sense now. It also weakens her defence.

[RH9]

I liked Dwlee99's last explanation about the minigames.

Me too.
914 made me flip my read.
I think that Dwlee's explanation is sound and in addition to 914, they are showing that they want to solve and help Town sort.

[RH9]

I liked Dwlee99's last explanation about the minigames.

Me too.
915 made me flip my read.
I think that Dwlee's explanation is sound and in addition to 914, they are showing that they want to solve and help Town sort.

EBWOP

[RH9]

I liked Dwlee99's last explanation about the minigames.

Me too.
914 made me flip my read.
I think that Dwlee's explanation is sound and in addition to 913, they are showing that they want to solve and help Town sort.

EBWOP

My memory is failing me.

[RH9]

I liked Dwlee99's last explanation about the minigames.

Me too.
914 made me flip my read.
I think that Dwlee's explanation is sound and in addition to 912, they are showing that they want to solve and help Town sort.

EBWOP

My memory is failing me.

EBWOP again.
Sorry.

[RH9]

Similar to how I don't need to convince RH9 I'm town as scum, marcistar doesn't have to either.

Unless she somehow thinks that I can influence MD.
Which she hasn't really said so far.
So best case scenario, it's NAI.

[RH9]

My concern is more that she's phoned it in on MD in the hopes of making Dragons look bad and you look good.

Question for the well-rested Faker of tomorrow, though. I find it hard to turn my brain off but I really don't want to go meta-diving you right now to see if I can figure you out that way.

I see.
Have a good night.

[RH9]

By the way, Faker, is there a reason why you're not cross-posting?
That's usually the norm.

[RH9]

By the way, Faker, is there a reason why you're not cross-voting?
That's usually the norm.

EBWOP

[RH9]

Yeah, we don't want Meuh to actually hammer the minigame.

Scum up 1-0 means that if Meuh votes marcistar, and I don't hammer, I'm clear and we don't actually have to kick me out of the overall game by formally finishing the minigame. The hard part is actually coordinating so that scum can't selfhammer to deny the second clear.

I see.
That seems really smart of you.
So you want SGB to resolve first if you get cleared? Or am I misinterpreting?

[RH9]

We have about 85 hours on deadline and are lucky to get more than 20 words from two of the slots in SGB every 24 hours.

I propose the following: I do all the rereading/meta I feel like if I can manage to pry myself away from FFXII, Meuh makes all the SGB players weigh in at least one more time on MD, she gets whatever she wants from marcistar, we aim to have the game solved with something like 48-72 hours to spare.

Make them put some level of proactivity and urgency into solving their game instead of watching paint dry until they suddenly switch to playing 6 hour blitz after realizing they procrastinated.

Sounds like a good plan.
What exactly do you want us to do (other than helping Meuh)?

[RH9]

We have about 85 hours on deadline and are lucky to get more than 20 words from two of the slots in SGB every 24 hours.

I propose the following: I do all the rereading/meta I feel like if I can manage to pry myself away from FFXII, Meuh makes all the SGB players weigh in at least one more time on MD, she gets whatever she wants from marcistar, we aim to have the game solved with something like 48-72 hours to spare.

Make them put some level of proactivity and urgency into solving their game instead of watching paint dry until they suddenly switch to playing 6 hour blitz after realizing they procrastinated.

Sounds like a good plan.
What exactly do you want us to do (other than helping Meuh and solving)?

EBWOP

[RH9]

If Meuh votes Marci our game will become more interesting probably

I agree.
Or at least have MD resolve.

[RH9]

I'm mostly looking to make SGB more urgent/pressing for the players in it. Right now there

might

be a feeling of "Well, we're not up yet they're still solving MD" which is why things have been completely dead on that front.

I'm having a good time with our occasional Q&As RH9 but they're mostly surface level. At some point we do need to apply real pressure to both the town and scum players in SGB to deliver on their game. It is going to be very hard to do any serious engagement later if we're working on <24 hour timescale given that you're on a separate timezone.

I see.
How do you plan to apply the pressure?

[RH9]

I can sit here all day and try and dialogue but Dragons clearly is completely incapable of doing so with me, so it's up to you and Dwlee99 to solve that slot.

Sure.

---

STD, what do you think of 912, 914 and 960?
Who do you want to be hammered in MD?
Dwlee and me both want marci.

[RH9]

Also, what do you think of my read flip on Dwlee?

[RH9]

the whole world might be against me but thats okay because i have my cute cat cafe game!!

yall r blinded..

By Faker?
Or Dwlee?

[RH9]

yes

Who?

[RH9]

partly by faker
shes been posting good, but it doesn't make any sense for me to be scum here. shes clearly framed me well and like.. good job! it isnt that hard to frame me usually but still prism is so good its so hard to help yall see the truth behind her scummy ways

and for dwlee, they've just gone back to afk mode and it just
they have nothing thats really + town to them? i think fakers defending of them is a likely partner tie as well.
i dont think being "afk and then popping in every once in a while with a good post" is very hard for scum to do.



(i said "yes" because i meant both : P)

I see.
You think that Dwlee is within their scumrange.

[RH9]

not necessarily. i don't have a good memory so I don't remember dwlees scumgame at all.

i just think in general, scum don't like attention drawn to them.
is that not something that lines up with what dwlees doing right now? only posting when they

need

to? : D

STD's doing that too now and you don't have him as Mafia.
He's drawing way less attention than Dwlee who posts every once in a while with something super bound to get attention.
Honestly, STD's way more better than Dwlee at not standing out and getting noticed.
Nothing personal.

[RH9]

I think that Meuh should vote now.

[RH9]

If MD isn't resolved in 2 days, I'm going to place my vote.

[RH9]

Dwlee, who do you want to lim?

[RH9]

Faker, do you still have STD as your preferred SGB lim?

[RH9]

Right now I'd go on you (RH9), my posts on why I have Dragons-leantown and RH9-scumlean aren't at all related to interactions and are better off collated from ISO.

I see.
How about the meta-tell that you mentioned before?

[RH9]

I had a vague idea about how frequent you were with nuanced follow-ups to points people raised, taking them one step further for example, as I thought I remembered those happening in Open House. On quick skim, it wasn't very backed-up by your town posts in Holiday Dance, and I found a few scumpost examples in Guardians that could have fit that mold.

Have you checked Open 839, Open 838, Dragon Game and Micro 1036?
The first two were games that I lost as Town, the last two were games that I won as scum.

[RH9]

I'm also going to try to finish and finish my current read before I respond to any other questions you have.

Got that.

[RH9]

Page 31 update: This minigame is actually so hard, holy shit

Which one?

[RH9]

Page 31 update: This minigame is actually so hard, holy shit

Which one?

Yours, not mine lmao

I see.
TBH I agree.

[RH9]

By the way, STD, is your whole read on me and Dwlee based off our interactions with one flipped scum?
Now, that Faker is cleared, have your reads changed?

[RH9]

It's a big part of it but not all of it

So your reads haven't changed?

[RH9]

marci, so you think that Faker engineered the clear?

[RH9]

yeah, to help further install the "no doubt in faker" mindset

Then, what do you think of STD's gutread of a Faker/me team?

[RH9]

i think faker x dwlee has compatibility too since she keeps defending dwlee

I see.

[RH9]

Dwlee, when you finish your catch-up, what do you think of Faker's clear?

[RH9]

Based off of my thoughts driving I am sold it is RH9

STD's right in 1014 and 1015, Faker.
You know that we'll lose if I get limmed.
You're blatantly the only viable partner for scum!me.
I know that you're in the clear now but I'm not.

[RH9]

I suggested earlier maybe she's doing this intentionally to clear RH9, but I honestly don't think she's thinking this far ahead. I think she's just trying to convince herself she's town and saying whatever random defense she comes up with to whoever is nearby. Still...maybe +town for RH9.

This was a crucial turning point for me in reading into that interaction.

marci's mindset for faking things is just to tell herself "I'm town and this person is mafia!", and work backwards or ignore anything that doesn't fit that. I don't think she places a lot of emphasis on who is/isn't her specific partner when deciding how to interact.

So you're saying that all three of us in SGB could be her partner?

[RH9]

I'm not really sure where you're getting that interpretation. I have a few distinctions I can make but this the explanations I can think of are pretty tedious.

I'm not saying that who she chooses to push and how isn't telling. These are chosen directly off of her wincon.

I am saying that who was in the vicinity as she tried to push marci-town and Faker-scum probably isn't telling, because her mindset when acting the part is just "okay I'm TOWN and faker is SCUM" and try to forget everything else. She's decided who to push above and now just pushes the rest out of mind.

I see.
I had thought that

I don't think she places a lot of emphasis on who is/isn't her specific partner when deciding how to interact.

meant that you believed that all of us could be viable partners.

[RH9]

Datisi is watching.

Is that 1984 reference?

[RH9]

I more had in mind God & a sort of stern religious parental figure but Big Brother government works too

Oh.
TBH I think that if I win this game and my original half-asleep reads turn out correct, I would be worried.

[RH9]

STD, Dwlee, do you both still want to vote me?
You do know that not hammering me will clear you like Faker, right?

[RH9]

Was Luke's confidence in Pooky-scum/voting Penguin early not a redflag for you?

His switch from jovial to serious is what made me think that he wasn't scum.
In Open 840, Luke was constantly serious in the thread. He even said in the Saboteur PT during last run that

I am also notorious for presenting my reads very confidently as town. It is something that regularly alerts people I havent played with before, but it is definitely a feature of my town play.

Scum obviously lost that overall game, but with the Wall minigame unresolved, why do you personally feel you lost the Wall?

It was my best scumgame and I needed implo to vote numberQ.
I didn't get implo to hammer and instead ended up making imaginality look worse.

[RH9]

Regarding 1070, Experience says that you know my towngame well but underestimate my scumgame.
This is opposed to numberQ who I thought would recognise my towngame and scumgame as seperate but ultimately didn't.

It seems like you're worried about players familiar with you, and while I'm not

actually

exceptional at reading you, I don't think you would have known this prior to my statements this game. I've seen a sizable sample of you between Open House, Holiday Dance, Guardians, etc. I'm probably one of the players you've interacted with the most on the site.

TBH I knew that you and Faker were the same since that time you modded a Trust Fall game.
And as touched upon before, my experiences of playing scum against people I knew especially after Open 840 and two Marathons is that even people who know my towngame perfectly like petapan and numberQ are nothing to worry about. In fact, STD modded a Marathon where I won against petapan who was Vigged and Ircher modded a round of Conspiracy, where I won again against him.

[RH9]

Okay, with the switch being the key: What was your basis for thinking that was strongly town-indicative?

It's because based on my knowledge of scum!Luke, such a switch is unusual.
I've only seen him do this in scum PTs and when he's Town like in Ircher's Web of Lies.
I think that in general scum!Luke spends so much effort on acting Town, that he feels almost imitative at times as opposed to the genuineness in his posts when I made that post.

[RH9]

Clear

Dwlee, when you finish your catch-up, what do you think of Faker's clear?

Just got it to oops I got distracted, prism could have just hammered there instead of not if she's scum? What thoughts do I need to have about it?

I was wanted to ask you if Faker's clear had any influence on your reads. That's all.

[RH9]

TBH I wish that catboi was here.
He's hardly ever misread town!me before.
In fact, I've misread his alignment more than he has to me.
By the way, sorry for the tangent.

[RH9]

TBH

I wish that catboi was here.
He's hardly ever misread town!me before.

In fact, I've misread his alignment more than he has to me.
By the way, sorry for the tangent.

If you are town that is grossly offensive but I will give you a pass.

If you are scum, know that saying this was a mistake and that I will stop at absolutely nothing to bury you after this.

Sorry, Faker.
I know that you almost never misread town!me either.

[RH9]

Dwlee, Pooky and marci, congrats for winning!

[RH9]

I would also like to apologise to Faker.
I never intended to make you feel inferior to catboi or feel guilty for misreading me.

[RH9]

Dwlee, Pooky and marci, congrats for winning!

thank u omg

i was deadass so worried that confriming town meuh wouldve been our downfall but it all turned out right

I NEVER USUSALLY ARGUE THIS MUCH AS SCUM SO IT WAS FUN TO TRY OUT

TBH if you had locked into SGB later, I would have changed my reads.
And as I said in the Spectator PT, my experience with scum!you influenced my read on you a bit.

[RH9]

No redactions

[RH9]

By the way, I really liked the flavour in 1234, though I would never be so mean to Prism.

[RH9]

when has rh9 ever sweared

This is so nice of you to say.
TBH I did almost that in a Latin class when I mispronounced

facile

as

far-kill

.

[RH9]

Yeah, this loss is on me.

Don't worry! You might win next time.

congrats on your retirement prism, you will be missed - hope you crush law school.

I hope so too, Prism!
You will be missed a lot.

[RH9]

Thanks, Luke!