Micro 1056: Moderators of the Discord Server [game over]

[Faker]

Hey everyone, I'm about to start reading but yesterday was really long and I don't have a lot of energy.

I'd really like to go in Sillyposting, which I think plays to my strengths as a town player while quarantining a lot of concerns several players are likely to have about my scumgame. It puts a lot of pressure on the scumteam to use their swap to put me elsewhere, and it might not even be possible depending on the distribution of the scumteam.

[Faker]

Skimming through, I too am a little underwhelmed by marcistar's explanation on selection. "Think I'd mix things up [in Sillyposting]" doesn't sound like a real reason, and I'm surprised she doesn't find the idea interesting.

I also thought Dwlee99's jump to SGB instantly with her was bizarre. Dwlee has two paces of play they can go to but it seems purely reactionary to marcistar and not at all rooted in what the minigames themselves are. I expect Dwlee to know those instant reads are a starting place and picking the game instantly as a result of one is questionable.

[Faker]

VOTE: Sillyposting

I don't think I have it in me this game to try and do either other game.

Presumably you intended to do this regardless, but did my stated preference give you pause or accelerate this decision?

[Faker]

I'm pretty annoyed by this and the fact that you are probably not both scum.

I don't really want to be in that minigame anymore, which is fine because I never thought I would actually find it fun or engaging. I do think it is a shame, since I strongly feel it was best for the alignment to be placed there.

I don't like the current spam so I'm going to clock out and come back later when it dies down.

[Faker]

Looking at the votecount this would be Christmas for me as scum. What a shame.

[Faker]

Why is it +town for me? The danger of sillyposting is that people

actually

quarantine me there. You are both significantly less likely to pick me as scum, meaning I could no bluff my way into winning the hardest minigame and am better shuffled elsewhere.

[Faker]

I am a public alt of Prism.

[Faker]

I could go in Mafia Discussion. I don't mind getting chosen as a clear, though my reads are not the greatest, and I think it will be pretty difficult for me to win any minigame outside of Sillyposting as an unclear the scumteam may think I am being facetious or outright disagree.

In SGB, marcistar I could probably bat above average in reading, but Dwlee tends to be a bad matchup for me on that front. I always find them very null.

In Sillyposting, I could probably win it one way or another but to be blunt I don't think I would have any fun whatsoever in reading or responding to whatever arguments crop up. I'm willing to make some sacrifice, but I did sign up for this game hoping to have some fun.

[Faker]

From a fun perspective you get roped together with marcistar a lot. Part of that is because of friendship and signing up for the same games a lot, but it'd probably be nice to strike out.

At the end of the day scum are going to have options for who to clear. Give it a shot and enjoy the mixup if it lands on you IMO.

[Faker]

I vote we throw RH9 into that hellhole, he is likely to actually unironically find it fun.

[Faker]

It is a 50/50 that it spirals into 200 post walls of incredibly complex argumentation that will be difficult to track, and for a third party to find the clear value of. I don't frame this internally as a personal attack on either of you: I can easily say the same applies to me.

I think he's likely to enjoy tracing extended lines of argumentation in search of real meaning, whereas I frankly would not and thus don't want to be there. There is also a very good chance that one of you recognizes very quickly that he is town and the game ends there.

[Faker]

"RH9 still enjoys the game of mafia" might be a more positive framing.

[Faker]

I'm considering going into Sillyposting and leaning into the circular experience of inflicted suffering.

[Faker]

It would probably be a lot less trouble for the game if you stuck to using Faker.

[Faker]

Now that Sillyposting is gone, do you have a preference between the other two?

I'd also caution people that anyone going into SGB automatically ends the day.

[Faker]

Now that Sillyposting is gone, do you have a preference between the other two?

I'd also caution people that anyone going into SGB automatically ends the day.

I'm not sure who you are asking but Mafia Discussion seems like a better choice because the conftown usually decides last while the other two players crossvote.

It was to you, I will try to make my posts more clear when in sequence like that.

Can you go further with why that functionality makes MD a better fit for you or more preferable to SGB? You can be a crossvoter or the clear, so it's not obvious which one you'd like to be or if it's something about the overall dynamic.

[Faker]

highlighting one of the rules here: if the day deadline runs out, the hackers will immediately win.

I'm a bit concerned by this, it's already not possible in this game but this entails configurations such that scum can automatically force a win Day 1. It is actually pretty trivial for them to do so; if town are split into a configuration of exactly 1-1-1 with scum unassigned the scum have already won the game.

Perhaps this was intentional, but in my ruleset that was why I required at least one town player remaining unassigned for this to kick in.

[Faker]

Looking between the two, I heavily prefer Mafia Discussion. It sounds like Dragons is willing to fill if needed, but I'm curious if people have any preference for who goes there.

[Faker]

I feel very, very good about marcistar being town after the read on Lukewarm. I shared it, and it was part of why I heavily considered biting the bullet on Sillyposting. I also felt like I could win us that minigame if that was the 3, even if my initial read were wrong and I might not have fun doing it. Counterfactuals are easy since I never have to back it up. I also was going to make a marked attempt to have a more optimistic viewpoint on it.

Some people like to sit here all day and coordinate Day 1 but I really wanted a more mild discussion and some initial thoughts on which minigame, why, and if people had strong meta feelings about how we should sort. It doesn't look like anyone has any objections to me going MD, but I'll give it another chance. I think Dragons going into SGB works over RH9/Meuh, but I do worry about the difficulty of that game.

[Faker]

I haven't seen Meuh's scumgame in awhile but 210 on the surface looks quite good IMO.

It's mostly tone which is probably not worth putting stock in, but the confidence is nice to see.

[Faker]

Thinking about it, MD isn't really my strongsuit. I'm actually very, very bad at direct 1v1s without immense effort. I mostly view alignments and perspective as interchangeable, and with no real hunting or puzzle left to do in that game it is difficult for me to pretend to care that I am sincere or genuine.

For Meuh, I skimmed it as part of Signs; a tenuous meta argument was the crux of my townread on you that game.

[Faker]

215 is not to say I suddenly want to go SGB. I'm just spitballing.

[Faker]

Yes. It is a shame you cannot punish the read tomorrow in the minigame; maybe they will be kind enough to swap me back.

[Faker]

Pooky, you were noticeably silent in voicing any thoughts on what game I should go in. Did you have any thoughts on it, even before Sillyposting filled?

[Faker]

It's me being cheeky about being in separate minigames, and thus relying on others to vote correctly in the event I am scum.

To answer directly, the read on marcistar (which you, Lukewarm, seemed to take issue with) and swap me to Sillyposting.

[Faker]

Personally, I'm willing to end the day basically whenever. I don't really care about wringing out every minute of deadline.

I'm not really sold on Pooky's 229 but I'm not really going to harp on it today.

Skimming through, I too am a little underwhelmed by marcistar's explanation on selection. "Think I'd mix things up [in Sillyposting]" doesn't sound like a real reason, and I'm surprised she doesn't find the idea interesting.

I also thought Dwlee99's jump to SGB instantly with her was bizarre. Dwlee has two paces of play they can go to but it seems purely reactionary to marcistar and not at all rooted in what the minigames themselves are. I expect Dwlee to know those instant reads are a starting place and picking the game instantly as a result of one is questionable.

I don't say all of my thoughts

I hope you're willing to share more about your selection tomorrow.

[Faker]

Still in a holding pattern personally, assuming I go MD and am ready to get a move on. Holding off as long as people still want to keep going though Dragons can unilaterally end it.

I feel very, very good about marcistar being town after the read on Lukewarm.

idk that many verys seems a bit too confident, i dont think my luke read was too hard to say, is it seriously only the luke read backing up this feeling?

Yeah, enough to be the top TR for now is fine with me.

if its only the luke read backing up this feeling i feel like its a bit hard for me to see u as genuine rn..

Oh, uh, well I guess that won't work...if that's what you'd like to see me make up...Nahhhhhhhh!

[Faker]

i was gonna explain but i was trying to hide in the bathroom to explain and someone actually needed in.

I can relate to this, reminds me of the time Pooky cut down my door and made his way into my house with a chainsaw.

It turns out he just wanted to show me the wood carving of a really, really cool Shrek statue he made out front.

[Faker]

Fun fact: Dragons/Faker/me are confirmed not to be the scumteam because if we were, we would win from the day end rule

i'd love to see one of you choose a channel just to confirm that

We've been pretty set for awhile on where we're all going, I think, though Dragon's missed Meuh saying it the first time.

Did you not know the locations we chose, or are you just eager for the day to end?

[Faker]

For marcistar, I am again being a bit cheeky. The second line was a joke from a scum-Faker perspective, where because you (marcistar) gave a sort of "If it's only X, then I will be suspicious [but if it's not, then I will not be so suspicious]" blueprint to me in advance, I already knew how you wanted me to respond.

Since my (real, nonjoking) first response didn't meet that expectation, I am joking that scum-Faker has to go back to the drawing board when they read the blueprint.

[Faker]

Man, I really hope I don't get nightkilled this game.

[Faker]

Okay, cool, that's a hardthrow. We should resolve my minigame late because marcistar is going to flame out and kill her own WIM.

I clear RH9 and can probably singlehandedly win the game off of it.

[Faker]

From a fun perspective you get roped together with marcistar a lot. Part of that is because of friendship and signing up for the same games a lot, but it'd probably be nice to strike out.

At the end of the day scum are going to have options for who to clear. Give it a shot and enjoy the mixup if it lands on you IMO.

This is genuine; I was looking forward to Meuh striking out completely separately.

[Faker]

At first I wasn't really sure if it was a S/T or S/S with just this information, but now my guess would be S/S.

While I didn't expect marcistar to volunteer, I don't think RH9 probably wants to go against me or clear me. S/T I don't see why you keep me and kick out RH9 to the 3 way.

[Faker]

I'm not bothering with this.

[Faker]

My suggestion is we resolve MD after Sillyposting, which gives Lukewarm all the time in the world to read marcistar without letting him strongarm it if they wound up partnered.

[Faker]

I am disinclined to believe that the scum team would move town!marci to 1v1 with faker, simply because scum!faker could 1v1 most people, and I think that they would want her to go up against someone who was not already primed to lose a different minigame.

While I realize this is the dreaded self-meta, unclear in MD plays against every strength I have in the game.

Straight up 1v1ing is my kryptonite as either alignment because town can just read the other person and ignore me. My "but I'm genuine!" spirit is truly non-existent after 12 years of playing this game and the tonal differences might as well be non-existent. People are going to expect me to hunt outside as either alignment but unless we win both minigames outright no one is going to give a shit how right I am.

[Faker]

Straight up 1v1ing is my kryptonite as either alignment because town can just read the other person and ignore me.

I changed up my syntax/structuring midway; this is an "especially as scum" point.

[Faker]

Oh. Okay.
Resolving MD first sounds best to me since it's the option that keeps the most townies in the game to drive discussion? But maybe there's more important factors at play. (I also want to resolve it first so I can focus elsewhere afterwards but that's too personal and specific to really matter)

I'd push against this. Lukewarm is very good at reading marcistar and she will struggle to keep up later, especially if a scumloss comes through.

[Faker]

I don't really see the motivation to put this confidence in my reads given the last performance you saw from me, and my reads on Day 1 were clearly off as well.

I know you're exaggerating and being cheeky to some extent, but I can't tell if there is some hint of faith in my ability to read the other 2 games. I actually really did not want SGB as town because I have struggled to read Dwlee99 and Dragons, another case like that, wound up third. Sillyposting is doable but is the definition of suffering, but I do think I can contribute there and I would like to flip it before MD.

[Faker]

Oh. Okay.
Resolving MD first sounds best to me since it's the option that keeps the most townies in the game to drive discussion? But maybe there's more important factors at play. (I also want to resolve it first so I can focus elsewhere afterwards but that's too personal and specific to really matter)

I'd push against this. Lukewarm is very good at reading marcistar and she will struggle to keep up later, especially if a scumloss comes through.

SUUUUURE IF UR SO CONFIDENT SCUMWOMAN LETS DO THIS

BUT SPOILER ALERT: IM NOT SCUM AND U KNOW THAT ALREADY DONT U

Tonally blitzing this game isn't likely to be an effective strategy. People know that you can fake it for a short period of time; pace yourself and focus on the other games.

Earlier you accused me of not wanting to spew, but this is my first response to you. Instead I've been interacting with the rest of the table, because that is both the approach that I should take as town and the one expected of me as town that I am therefore forced to emulate were I really scum.

[Faker]

Tonal 1v1 blitzing is what happens in chat mafia. It's why I said it's actually my kryptonite; I don't like informed 1v1ing because I've done it a million times and I no longer have the sincerity for it.

[Faker]

@Lukewarm Bold but okay.

Right now my guess would be RH9/Pooky but I have little confidence in my ability to read either Pooky or Penguin and will more be relying on my ability to read you.

[Faker]

im so confident on u?!??!?! should i not go after the head of scum?!?!??!?!

i would interact with others but nothings really interesting in terms of their games so far, still dont like dwlee from yesterday tho but ur my focus bb XOXOXOXOOZ

I warned you, but suit yourself. Part of me will hope it works out for you.

[Faker]

I'm interested to see more from SGB.

S/T swap meant they had to pick who to throw in this with me. Dragons would not be eager to (and to be blunt, I am completely merciless as scum, I would have jumped at the chance to throw Dragons in MD and absolutely beat his ass up and down the court for 48 minutes again). Dwlee99 probably would have been okay with it given their last go-around in Melancholia.

S/S I'm actually not sure RH9 goes into this game with me to begin with if he's scum.

[Faker]

Dragons, do you mind speaking about what you made of the games in a vacuum and exactly why MD/SGB seemed even to you?

[Faker]

im like 95% sure we win just by going penguin-marci full send but ill let faker do stuff so she doesnt get mad at me for not taking this game seriously.

Why does Lukewarm pick the hardest minigame again? Is the theory here WIFOM redemption? iirc you joined second. Perhaps he hoped I'd join instead, but shrug.

[Faker]

I'd actually jump at the chance to elo faker again

You might want to win and get revenge in a vacuum, but going through the process is another matter entirely. It wasn't that you particularly respected my skill that game or wanted a rematch: You were openly miserable, despised dealing with my aggression, and hated it even with the knowledge I was scum.

You could both respect my skill and think you would win, and yet still never want to touch MD with me with a 10 foot pole.

[Faker]

I get that you're saying the opposite, and it is definitionally true if you are town. From my perspective, this is why I am a bit skeptical.

[Faker]

If people really want to play blitz, it's not like I can stand in the way, but I don't think it plays to any of our strengths no matter how you slice it. Maybe it'd work in SGB if all three could be online simultaneously, but their timezone splits could make that very difficult.

[Faker]

I completely forgot that Dwlee99 was threatening to turboshove marcistar lmao

Out of the frying pan and into hell itself.

[Faker]

marci, while I suspect you're just trying to force through tone, if there was deeper strategic intent behind it and you were hoping in your opener that you could exploit something along the lines of an unreadable 1v1 of Signs, that is not how this minigame works unfortunately.

The blueprint for that involves

forcing

me to respond by making bad-faith interpretations of my posts. This puts me in the bind of either relying on other people to read deeply themselves, or in responding but creating an unreadable web.

[Faker]

I'm happy enough leaving marcistar to her own devices so I'll take a step back and let other people contribute for awhile. I'm especially interested in more from SGB.

I'd like to think the Sillyposting lock was town but I'm not going to call alignment on Lukewarm quickly now that the stakes are high. I'm happy enough with the current arrangement.

I will also continue to offer unsolicited, condescending but well-intentioned wisdom on occasion, partially out of goodwill but partially to let it sink for her what a mistake this was.

[Faker]

I guess after 364 it has begun to sink in what a mistake this was.

(I am kidding, and hope you feel better regardless)

[Faker]

Also, contextually, while it's not really pressing or might be of interest, this is where I'm coming from with spitballing that this might be a scum/scum swap to avoid Dragons going in a game with me:

im about halfway through but after that shitty post by you i'm almost content letting you lose if your town

stop whining that i'm not playing how you want me to play and accept that we're different here

congrats prism i guess you win either way unless you do something stupid like vote me

maybe chill next time

There were no props or discussion postgame. It was not even remotely a fun 3 way for him. He claims to want a rematch, and maybe he genuinely does. I doubt he holds my play in high regard, and I'm sure he'd love to see me lose, but it's hard to believe he'd legitimately want to go through the

process

again. Sometimes you're satisfied with your own opinion and judgments of yourself and another, and there's no need to pay the steep price of testing them.

[Faker]

i'm not going to pretend i can read prism for shit in a mini game

but I know Marci and that's scum on the run if i've ever seen one

Also this is a bizarre post; he might anticipate being wrong but he relishes the chance to be the first person to read me with any consistency in ~7 years and I doubt he passes on the chance to pad the record so easily.

Focusing on marcistar is a better call but he's not going to ignore trying to read my slot entirely as town.

[Faker]

Alright, now I'm taking a step back, wack me with the metal bat if I spam again.

[Faker]

this is where I'm coming from with spitballing that this might be a scum/scum swap to avoid Dragons going in a game with me:

Sloppy. S/T swap, with 2 scum in SGB meaning one has to go.

[Faker]

You're spending a lot of time arguing with Lukewarm about how scum he is. I hope that's part of your effort to sort him, and not part of your effort to convince him of anything.

[Faker]

????????????????? what the fuck

[Faker]

I'm fine with Lukewarm town but Jesus Christ let's make more of an attempt to hold the reins on blitz, MD is going to turn into a straight coinflip and get supremely fucked over if the other minigames resolve fast.

[Faker]

2 Morons 1 Channel

[Faker]

I told you dog. I told you about both of you in Sillyposting.

I vote we throw RH9 into that hellhole, he is likely to actually unironically find it fun.

Not sure I enjoy "existing in a game with me" being thought of as being a hell hole.

I think I might just accept being the person who votes in this minigame, and can skip past me ever having to convince anyone I am town.

[Faker]

Why don't we all sync up the first Harry Potter movie, watch it together for the next ~2 hours, and come back to a chiller less slapfighty game

[Faker]

[Faker]

They're out of the fence, they're bucking wild, they're off to free land now.

I guess we just watch 'em go

[Faker]

im like 95% sure we win just by going penguin-marci full send but ill let faker do stuff so she doesnt get mad at me for not taking this game seriously.

Why does Lukewarm pick the hardest minigame again? Is the theory here WIFOM redemption? iirc you joined second. Perhaps he hoped I'd join instead, but shrug.

i think if luke really thought marci was scum he wouldve joined sgb to yeet her

him going to sillyposting feels like him trying again redemption saga

maybe he thinks he did it wrong the last time and now hes going to try again by shading me

like lol good luck with that strat

I think this theory is absolutely horrible.

[Faker]

Post 15, before marcistar has ever posted:

I would prefer going to the game where we have to vote for a townie, which ever one that is

This is Sillyposting. This is again before ever scumreading marcistar.

You (Pooky) say you think he would have instalocked SGB after he does scumread marci. He responds with this:

I was pretty close to locking into the sillytalk one tbh.

Tired of ending up in the hard games for these things lol

This is inline with 15.

The second he sees me voice a desire for Sillyposting (which makes third after himself and Meuh), he locks it in in post 106:

VOTE: Sillyposting

I don't think I have it in me this game to try and do either other game.

This is again perfectly inline with 15/79. I ask if my timing had something to do with it, and he follows up with the perferctly reasonable 110. Sure enough:

That being said, you and Meuh both stating a preference for that location did make me want to go ahead and do it. In the prior runs I have seen of this, when someone locks in, there has been a good chance that 1/2 other people panic lock it.

So, there was a chance from someone to go there, the two of you panic lock in, and I be forced into another game

The original premise, that he wanted to go to Sillyposting for the easy game, is perfectly sensible. He's gotten a hard game repeatedly and has had a rough time playing mafia in general lately. From there, his posting is perfectly in line with that. Maybe it's intentionally so, but the premise makes sense and Lukewarm isn't going to abandon the easy game and respite it represents over a page 1 YOLO where merely being in it doesn't even guarantee a win.

[Faker]

Also, my alternative theory (that it was a reaction hoping he'd have a good chance against me) makes no fucking sense because the second I made it clear I'd have little fun in that game, but were considering going anyway, he shut it down.

This was not because it is against his alignment to have me there. It was because he has not had the best time playing hard minigames, playing with me, or playing mafia in general lately and my pessimism promised more teethpulling misery on the horizon. He wants the respite and the fun.

Plausible as town with little reason to doubt the surface is unfortunately not enough to conclusively call him town, but it is enough to have me say this line of argumentation is terrible.

[Faker]

I would encourage you to work over 410 in its entirety and ask yourself why Lukewarm wound up requesting I not join Sillyposting.

[Faker]

isn't this literally what he said as mafia

Here's what Lukewarm said as scum in his PT:

My intention as town was going to be to automatically lock myself into the Keep [Sillyposting] in my first post, but we can chat about that since I am actually scum lmao

[Faker]

You might be right that he is mafia, and that I am wrong for townreading him, but I am very confident the exact line of argumentation you're using is a complete deadend.

[Faker]

Plausible as town with little reason to doubt the surface is unfortunately not enough to conclusively call him town

It is not conclusive, but it is enough to have me heavily leaning that way.

[Faker]

I also think he learned as scum not to play chicken in Sillyposting. It is a game very rigged against the scum player.

[Faker]

I am outright think that you should be the one voted in. If I have to deal with rolling the dice on Penguin, so be it, but I would much prefer one of them to vote you than you to vote one of them.

[Faker]

I also think he learned as scum not to play chicken in Sillyposting. It is a game very rigged against the scum player.

ok what would he being doing as scum here?

Play slow and wait it out.

This is also completely ignoring all of the evidence I have presented that going into Sillyposting exactly the way he did is extremely likely as town. We can discuss what he does in this minigame as scum if you can give me a non-debunked reason why the current approach is unlikely as town.

[Faker]

It is at you, Lukewarm.

[Faker]

My #1 preference is of course to not rush like a bunch of morons, and instead take a day or two to actually be rational, chew on reads overtime, and arrive at real points of discussion that aren't pulled from the bottom of the dumpster at a Long John Silver's.

My #2 preference is speedvote Lukewarm.

[Faker]

Pooky, in the event you are town, I promise that working through this sequence, in this order, is worthwhile and not a waste of your time. It does not matter if Lukewarm is scum or town.

408, 415, and finally 410

[Faker]

lmao the random ass posts from 2003

THOSE POSTS ARE ABSOLUTELY WORTH YOUR TIME

[Faker]

Hitting right notes, happy with Occam's Razor.

Not going to rush it still but with that post, I strongly think Luke->marci wins the game outright. Even with SGB slanted in scum's favor it is never worth it for me as a player to trade 1 for 1, Luke flipping town should essentially clear me despite his statement.

[Faker]

I am speaking strictly mechanically when I say SGB is slanted towards scum. It is a basic 3 way no clear, and it is more likely for scum to win than the town.

I don't really have a read on you, no.

[Faker]

@Penguin, let me know when you have gotten your fill on talking about other minigames, and I will vote you

Pooky and I are pretty aligned on our thoughts, so I don't really have much to add.

What thoughts are aligned? This is not at all obvious skimming your ISO.

Suppose you do not get voted today and were placed with the decision instead. What has Pooky said that is even remotely persuasive?

[Faker]

I am actually howling laughing at the idea that anyone could read Pooky's last set of posts and align with them, and again I do not care if Lukewarm is in fact scum. Those Pooky posts were absolutely awful.

[Faker]

Alright well if people are determined to lose this minigame I will wash my hands of it, am trying to take more of a break today.

[Faker]

Alright well I'm going to tab out and hope we magically win this minigame despite Pooky being logically wrong on literally everything.

[Faker]

Do you think Luke is scum to begin with?

Pooky's point is SINGULARLY that Luke does not lock Sillyposting as town and instead YOLO goes to SGB to yeet a page 1 scumread.

I pulled out the receipts showing not only that Luke wanted Sillyposting before marcistar even posted, but posts another game showing Luke has

always

wanted to quickly lock Sillyposting as town.

While secondary, his reactionary read on me was also extremely clean.

[Faker]

Ah ha, the scum would want this, but there is also nothing to make me say that they would not want it either.

I've seen a lot of RH9 and feel like I know how to speak his language. He's a hyper-rational lad who can be unpredictable at times, but there's a decent chance I get in his ear, stick to pure rationality and encourage him to ignore any gut/tone, and wind up singlehandedly winning off of that. A decent chance of winning the full game off of a single pocket is something you take when presented to you.

[Faker]

I think there are other considerations, such as scum-Pooky having a plan of his own (Pooky is the one who set the terms of this entire game to begin with for the most part) and it is not likely he immediately needed my intervention to bail him out.

I think that the argument is surface-level riskfree might be valid, so sure, I will drop it.

[Faker]

It's also worth noting that it is fundamentally a good thing for MD as a whole, ie. to the town wincon for me or against the scum wincon for me, to delay Sillyposting because of your input on marcistar.

[Faker]

Okay maybe I'm too caught up on this but I'm still not over this post from Pooky, it seems so disinterested in actually thinking about the game.

I can unfortunately vouch I see shit like this all the time, when the man thinks he has something he pulls whatever random justification of his own viewpoint out of the hat. The

saving grace

magical part of the bear is that the initial read tends to be more accurate than the average bear.

[Faker]

It was my perception that you are above average at reading marcistar, and if that is not true c'est la vie.

While Meuh has seen no reason to treat me this way, I've approached it from the perspective that I'm going to get policyslotted as null by several players at the table regardless of their instincts or my play. Working backwards from marcistar's alignment should be easier.

[Faker]

I don't really see why Dwlee and I conspire to have them go aggressive on you and me townread you, only to swap the game.

Earlier you suggested I considered you an easy voteout and thus swapped you in here. I don't see why me/Dwlee99 feel the need to shake it up if this is the case; Dwlee explicitly joined that game to go after you. Is the response to this just "WIFOM"?

[Faker]

Bonus counter: I completely forgot Dwlee99 had even done that (join to shove marcistar) until someone else pointed it out to me.

[Faker]

Since you earlier voiced in interest in me spewing other slots, here's the exact moment you can see the stuffing leave the bear's body:

isn't this literally what he said as mafia

Here's what Lukewarm said as scum in his PT:

My intention as town was going to be to automatically lock myself into the Keep [Sillyposting] in my first post, but we can chat about that since I am actually scum lmao

408 was already rough for one but he still hasn't responded to this one.

[Faker]

Is your plan to ignore the massacre of your most salient point and just stick your head in the sand and pretend it never happened or is it to go back to the drawing board?

[Faker]

That you've stuck your head in the sand and ignored the massacre of your most salient point completely.

If you're right and Lukewarm is scum I'm happy for you and all but you seem unfazed. The only point of hope is that neither you nor Penguin have yet actually voted the other.

[Faker]

You have to be trolling. Absolutely disgusting interpretation.

[Faker]

I'm not getting into a slapfight with you. Vote Penguin and see what happens.

[Faker]

I think it's fairgame to link to a specific post summary.

Do you think Luke is scum to begin with?

Pooky's point is SINGULARLY that Luke does not lock Sillyposting as town and instead YOLO goes to SGB to yeet a page 1 scumread.

I pulled out the receipts showing not only that Luke wanted Sillyposting before marcistar even posted, but posts another game showing Luke has

always

wanted to quickly lock Sillyposting as town.

While secondary, his reactionary read on me was also extremely clean.

[Faker]

It is possible he is playing inline with his previously voiced preference for what to do as town intentionally, and that his read on me is faked. The point is that your reason for why he is scum is not sound and that there is substantial reason to believe this is exactly how he plays the minigames.

I am not making a claim that Luke is town beyond a doubt simply for going to Sillyposting. I am making a primary claim that playing inline with a stated town preference (tucked away in a forgotten part of a scum PT that he knows from a prior discussion that I did not read) is not +scum, which is what you are asserting. I am making a secondary claim that playing in line with a stated town preference is +town and that the clean read on me is +town.

[Faker]

I think this is in bad faith. I'm willing to dialogue with anyone else. If Pooky is town my last words for him are that I encourage him to vote Penguin and lose.

[Faker]

I'm not responding to anything Pooky types. If someone else wants a response to a specific point, you can ask me directly.

[Faker]

Honestly "Bad faith" is a misnomer, I've seen this shit a million times of refusing to admit a specific point is wrong, instead treating his worldview as sacred and beyond reproach or error. This is Pooky-faith, where it is not merely enough to show his reasoning is blatantly wrong, you must instead affirmatively prove your own is bulletproof and not merely better by default.

My preference here is Lukewarm->Pooky->Penguin but the gap between Luke and the rest is a vast gulf.

[Faker]

I'm not using my experience with Luke as the basis for my read whatsoever. I tracked a timeline of posts to Pooky's claim, and looped in a single publicly available post that states concretely what minigame Lukewarm wanted as town. There was no qualitative judgment, tonal bullshit, or meta dart throwing in any of that.

My reaction to his read on me is also not based on meta or previous experience. It is entirely looking at this game in a vacuum, buying the read and believing it to be Occam's Razor.

I have given, and have no reason to affirmatively scumread you. You are there because you are less town to me than the alternatives.

[Faker]

yelling "bad faith" and "not responding" is pretty gross.

Not being able to wrap your mind around:

"Lukewarm has said previously out of game that he'd like to lock in Sillyposting as town" -> "Lukewarm locking Sillyposting isn't a scumclaim [as Pooky says]"

is beyond pretty gross. There are a number of mean words and questions and phone calls to the teachers responsible for this disgrace to be made here.

[Faker]

You are equating a concrete statement of preference made by Luke as somehow in the same vein as your and Pooky's tonal judgments of one another. They are not even remotely comparable. There is no interpretation or subjectivity involved in Luke saying "I would lock Sillyposting as town" outside of the game.

[Faker]

You are equating a concrete statement of preference made by Luke as somehow in the same vein as your and Pooky's tonal judgments of one another. They are not even remotely comparable. There is no interpretation or subjectivity involved in Luke saying "I would lock Sillyposting as town" outside of the game.

There is subjectivity unless you are asserting there is a trust tell involved.

There's also interpretation in the sense that I have to decide that "Lukewarm" is another human being and not a wombat at a keyboard, and that "I" is referring to this creature, and that "Sillyposting" is a symbolic construct that does not concretely exist outside of the representation afforded in my own brain.

Beyond this, you don't understand your own fucking ruleset: There is no trust tell in saying what you would do as town provided you are also willing to do so as scum. Lukewarm is willing to do so,

and has in fact done so previously

.

It remains the case that him doing so

does not mean that he is scum

.

[Faker]

Thanks for saying that it's NAI in a lot of words.

Congratulations, you made it to Step 1 of why I don't like Pooky's argument and refuse to dialogue with him further.

I strongly doubt 523 but I'm not doing this tonight. Enjoy my absence and use it to further a presumably mutual win condition.

[Faker]

"Lukewarm has said previously out of game that he'd like to lock in Sillyposting as town" -> "Lukewarm locking Sillyposting isn't a scumclaim [as Pooky says]"

Too many words for Penguin

[Faker]

you have to be right

On one specific thing: That Lukewarm locking Sillyposting is not a scumclaim.

I have readily acknowledged I can be wrong on literally everything else.

[Faker]

I wonder what the start of 467 was.

Your assertion that I, personally, am using it as a reason to townread Luke is not wrong:

I am not making a claim that Luke is town beyond a doubt simply for going to Sillyposting. I am making a primary claim that playing inline with a stated town preference (tucked away in a forgotten part of a scum PT that he knows from a prior discussion that I did not read) is not +scum, which is what you are asserting. I am making a secondary claim that playing in line with a stated town preference is +town and that the clean read on me is +town.

Lukewarm being actively +town for following that preference is up for debate. You can call it NAI, and I actually didn't dispute you doing so just now. I take issue with Pooky's assertion that it was +scum, and pulled out the receipts for it.

[Faker]

Is this what an absence looks like?

Unfortunately, yes, I am bad at sticking to my word on this when I mald.

[Faker]

Note that the terms "primary claim" and "secondary claim" are not arbitrary in 505. They are in fact symbols of an order of importance to me.

[Faker]

Sorry - but, "making a...claim" whether primarily or secondarily is making a claim using that as the basis of the arguement. If you don't dispute me calling that argument NAI then...how is it not NAI?

Understanding why someone holds a belief is not the same as sharing it. I

can

debate that it's +town, and in the strictest sense it is: Lukewarm followed a single known town preference. Perhaps the increased chance of him being town is near-zero negligible, perhaps it is substantial.

If you don't believe him doing so makes a difference, then I'm not likely to change your view.

I don't really care about pooky's assertion that it was +scum at this point...way beyond that. You should probably move past it too.

I'm happy to.

[Faker]

I again cannot emphasize enough that my reads are extremely fallible, and my reasoning often is too. Where you got this vehemence was the rejection and dismissiveness to a line of reasoning where I put a great deal of effort into the receipts and doublechecking it. There was a concrete post showing the exact opposite. I didn't just pull that quote out of my stomach from the Taco Bell I ate this day.

It did matter

substantially

if the argument is bad and you are scum. Since you are informed to yourself as not being scum, it may no longer be important to you that Pooky revisit his argument. It should be obvious why a third party would be concerned over him tunneling over something either +town or null. Not really looking to get into the weeds of it again, but responding to 539.

[Faker]

Eh, looking deeper I see you're saying about talking to

you

here.

I think process is important, and understanding that Pooky was pushing a bad line might in fact be relevant for his alignment if you are town. If you decide it's not, then OK.

[Faker]

(Some of your reasoning seems to be based off of specific votes that get placed down; I have not viewed any vote as inevitable, though I have spent a disproportionate amount of time worrying about yours/Pooky's specifically.)

[Faker]

Hopefully 546 answer it for you; as someone who wants Lukewarm voted, rather than being the voter, my interest is more in getting whichever town is in Pooky/Penguin to not vote the other.

[Faker]

Perhaps I should spend more time convincing Luke not to vote but I don't think he's going to anytime soon, so shrug.

Either way I'm not malding anymore, thanks for taking the time to work through things even as I was frustrated, I will now actually take my absence now.

[Faker]

I'm also happy to revisit Lukewarm's alignment later when I come back now that we're on something that isn't a complete deadend.

[Faker]

Going to laugh if Luke tried to pull the same trick again only to get fuckin SMACKED

[Faker]

If only there were a way to prevent this.

[Faker]

Save the blame game for post game, this is just disgusting to look at. I tried.

Give your last reads instead of doing this stupid shit.

[Faker]

Can y'all wait 5 minutes and take this to the dead thread

[Faker]

Would have been nice if we got more discussion from/on SGB before flip, c'est la vie.

No one is going to vote anytime soon it's okay I can go watch anime for a few minutes :^)

[Faker]

I share some blame for having Pooky as second instead of third.

[Faker]

That last sentence was supposed to be representative of me taking my absence before the vote.

I was watching Classroom of the Elite, which is dogshit but once or twice a year I can shovel garbage and enjoy it.

[Faker]

Sounds like you'd like School Days, Pooky

[Faker]

Also absolute garbage

but unique garbage!

[Faker]

it's ok bro they have vibes that's equivalent2 u playing 2 all town preferences pooky refusing to acknowledge that he was pushing trash is irrel

[Faker]

Alright well back to shoveling trash for the night, hype to try to sort players (Dragons/Dwlee) that I cannot even remotely read to save my life now

[Faker]

I'd rather resolve SGB.

If Meuh wants to resolve MD first there's a specific way to do it, which is to vote when you think the town player is online and the mafia one isn't. You have them confirm themselves then pull the vote; the coordination is so that the scum player does not self-hammer.

[Faker]

I've considered whether to give my thoughts on SGB, the long lock gave me plenty of time to review.

I'd rather wait for more content before throwing my cards completely on the table, at least this time around. While I could continue to steer much of the discussion and choke marcistar out completely, I'd greatly prefer to kick the initiative out to the SGB players and let them drive the discussion.

[Faker]

(And, of course, Meuh as she wants-my point is that we have 15 pages of me arguing with all three of Luke, Pooky, & Penguin, meanwhile we have maybe 1 post on that game each from the SGB players. The game would benefit from me letting up on the reins rather than just shifting my grilling from one game to the next.)

[Faker]

I'd rather resolve SGB.

If Meuh wants to resolve MD first there's a specific way to do it, which is to vote when you think the town player is online and the mafia one isn't. You have them confirm themselves then pull the vote; the coordination is so that the scum player does not self-hammer.

I don't really get this. What's the point of confirming one of you?
Do you want the townie to explicitly not vote and state so, so this townie can then help solve SGB?

I've been in that sort of situation of confirming townies by having them explicitly not vote (with Marci, Lukewarm and Catboi as it so happens ) but I'm not sure what's the point for it here.

The point is that if you choose to resolve MD first, you get to keep the second clear as your partner in crime instead of having them exit the game. If you'd rather kick someone (see: me) out then welp.

[Faker]

RH9, what do you make of Dwlee99 instantly joining marcistar in SGB?

This could be coordinated, but it heavily restricts any swaps. Autoloss is not hard to dodge in a scenario, but scum are now forced to take one of those two players and put them in whichever game winds up with 2 town.

This double-lock again happened before they have any idea of what the town players were thinking or what their reads were.

[Faker]

dwlees absence from thread just really makes them super scummy tbhs

lol

[Faker]

You seemed to take a particular interest in how the Sillyposting loss happened.

im at work rn, so my posts may be spread out a bit.

ill read tho, im curious why that happened

Did you read it and not find any of it noteworthy? Perhaps you just forgot that it was interesting.

Or most likely: Did you just feel pressured to keep up some appearance of WIM and solving?

[Faker]

It happened because I reined in the wild horses and prevented Lukewarm from rapidvoting Penguin who hadn't posted, only to have him rapid-vote Pooky instead.

Maybe I spewed a partner in all of that posting I made in that time, which was not all at those 3, since that again was claimed to be something you were actively hoping for in a scum Faker.

[Faker]

You can focus on SGB, there is no point in reading my slot and trying to outguess me. I hope you are equally difficult to see through in your interactions. I am looking forward to it.

I just find it curious that your actions do not match your tonal presentations or ideas for solving whatsoever.

[Faker]

My point here with the above two posts isn't that marcistar needs to or should listen to me. From her point of view I'm scum and obviously shouldn't.

She was willing to go toe-to-toe with me when it was tonal blitzing, but when it comes to substantive holes or inconsistencies, she's nervous. What I just pointed out isn't a big deal at all and honestly isn't even that scum indicative. I think her discomfort in the engagements show a lot more.

I gave this time to let it become apparent: The nail in the coffin imo is the complete lack of care about being on the verge of defeat. Town has lost one minigame, and there's neither indignant fire or flailing despair. She's frozen but knows the game isn't over if she gets voted out, and that there exists a safety net of another partner in a scumsided game to pull the win out if she fails.

[Faker]

Honestly, I agree with Dwlee that we should resolve MD next.
It feels somewhat safer because I trust Meuh more to make a good decision.

Tracking through your posts, you think marcistar is the scum in this minigame. 277 seems to be your best statement of it: It's all related to earlygame with Dwlee99 and her initial votelock on SGB.

Has your read on this game evolved as we've continued to play? You also haven't ventured a read on me at all, which I find pretty surprising.

[Faker]

I'm also kind of curious if Dragons has any questions for myself and marcistar.

Don't get me wrong-I'm happy to see you giving content in SGB.

...But is it really okay for you to leave me to run unchecked in MD?

[Faker]

284 was a complete joke where the punchline was that I couldn't get nightkilled. I expected no one to think I forgot one existed. It was also partially a reference to this account's last game, Coalition, where I replaced in for night phase but was instantly nightkilled and never got to play.

The Newbie we played I wasn't very joking, but I'm a born shitposter at heart. I have a duality of being probably one of the most intense players to ever touch the site, but outside of the game I'm a much more jester-like personality and take virtually nothing seriously. Some games are heavier on one side than others, for this one I have tried extremely hard to keep a balance of intense but not venomously so. This is a long-term project of mine and I'm happy with this game so far. The short episode with Penguin was acrimonious but both an exception, and progress compared to how vicious I can often be with my critique.

Anyway, if my jovial tone becomes a concern at any point, you can see the competing venomous/shitposting switches on display in plenty of town games of mine. Chara's Folly, Mini Normal 2181, and Slaughter Hour (all on Prism) just to name a few. This account's 9:12 also was very lighthearted until a very serious accusation got thrown out.

[Faker]

Honestly, I agree with Dwlee that we should resolve MD next.
It feels somewhat safer because I trust Meuh more to make a good decision.

Tracking through your posts, you think marcistar is the scum in this minigame. 277 seems to be your best statement of it: It's all related to earlygame with Dwlee99 and her initial votelock on SGB.

Has your read on this game evolved as we've continued to play? You also haven't ventured a read on me at all, which I find pretty surprising.

Yeah. My read has evolved. I've been starting to reconsider my read on Dwlee. In a vacuum, they actually seem all right though a bit non-committal as seen in 253.
However, this conflicts with my read on STD, who reads as wrongly tunnelled Town as in his latest stream of posts.
Especially, the amount of insight that he has put in. If I had to bet for scum out of my minigame, I would be forced to say Dwlee despite improvements in my read of them.

I think two factors are in Dwlee99's favor here:

1) Doublelocking instantly is very bold, see the restrictions on swaps I talk about in 670.
2) The level of interactions between all three of Pooky, marcistar, and Dwlee99. Posts like this would be very impressive.

I'm not really sure I'd call Dragons tunneled right now. He's questioning and giving thoughts and trying. I don't see any problem with that, but I also think it's extremely within his range. (I think Dwlee's posts in a non-flipped vacuum, and yours, are also within your respective ranges for the record)

[Faker]

Oh you responded to 670 already, my bad. I'll work through and chew on your response.

[Faker]

I think that since Pooky flipped, it's likely that scum!Pooky with his expertise and experience, made a plan and convinced marci and Dwlee to follow along.

Mmmmm knowing Pooky I strongly disagree with this. Even in his best scum games he's not really dictatorial and is more focused on having fun with his partners and kind of trolling around hoping for the best. You can see this free-wheeling style on display in these two scum PTs, which weren't cherrypicked but were just the first games I thought of where he rolled scum. If he sees a great strategic plan he will advance it, but telling his partners exactly where to go and what to do pregame isn't his style.

If it happened at all, it was probably a joking suggestion by one of the parties where they all just say YOLO and go for it. They then debate the merits of the swaps overnight.

It's likely that Dwlee had intentionally joined marci so that Town, not expecting two scum to engage in such a risky behaviour, would view this as unaligned.

I think it's certainly plausible to do so, but why do you think it's likely?

I also think that Pooky engineered his interactions with both so that when Sillyposting flipped (as is the norm), whoever the Town are in SGB would be convinced that Dwlee was Town.

I think Pooky having good interactions with his partners is a given. I could nitpick but I don't think it'd be productive; I just think this is a hasty conclusion to assume he planned this far in advance before the swaps were even decided. He didn't interact with Dwlee99, or any SGB poster, much on Day 2.

I think that swapping marci was always the plan but when it came out that they needed to swap marci into MD, the scum decided to leave you with her, because I had already suggested my belief that marci and Dwlee was aligned and "possibly even scum together".

Swap speculations are difficult because we're kind of working backwards here: You came up with a world where Dwlee99/marci decide to swap you and marcistar. This is really hard to put stock in here, though, because of what I talked about earlier with Dragons: Dragons really did not enjoy a previous 3 way with me, and there's a good chance he never wants to touch any minigame with me.

If both teams would make this specific swap, it's hard to say that knowing why they would inherently makes this one team more likely than the other. Swapping me/Dragons doesn't seem terrible, admittedly, and that would have been an option for Dragons/marcistar.

[Faker]

Dragons really did not enjoy a previous 3 way with me, and there's a good chance he never wants to touch any minigame with me.

i've already said i'm over this, please stop pushing this narrative

No. It's relevant and not even remotely insulting to you as either a person or a player. This point is not even asserting something about your skill or mine. I think you have reason to make this swap, if you didn't then OK.

i think it was this one [680], it looks a bit performative

It was extremely performative almost by definition. I have not even remotely been trying to hide it; the entire sequence of my interaction with marcistar has openly been in bad faith.

What do you think of the substantive point inside the post?

if faker is scum her engagement of pooky had to have been theatre as well. which is a hard pill to swallow. so maybe it is marci.

Not really clear on this; you saw the lengths me/IV went to in ours.

[Faker]

Meuh, who do you want eliminated the most from SGB?
Same goes for Faker and marci.
I want to see your reads because it could potentially impact my decision if we are to resolve SGB after MD.

My preference at the immediate moment is Dragons->RH9->Dwlee99. I am a very long way from deciding.

None of the above is really a factor in why I'd choose Dragons, maybe quote 3. I had it as a coinflip but the Dwlee99 point that you likely haven't seen Pooky in a scum PT (ie. this game) is a good one and my hangup with Dragons is 682. He's seen that my style of play as scum is in the same vein as clubbing baby seals or choking all life from people and until I said this he didn't really seem worried about it happening again. Yes not everything revolves around me, etc.

[Faker]

Probably all you're going to get from me for a few hours so make the most of it.

[Faker]

I'm going to raise the question of "Does marcistar assert I am obvscum here even in a world where she is town?", not just pointing to zero and having no emotion behind it until I point out her lack thereof

but just

at all

On another note my laptop is on its final one/two days of operation, we'll see if I can manage to squeeze a bit more life out of it but it is not looking good. Expect my content to drop off a cliff.

[Faker]

10 days on the deadline is plenty but shrug, it feels like not much is happening. I could keep grilling various people but shrug, there's barely any autopsy attempts on what happened with Sillyposting. The back/forth with marci from RH9 and Dwlee99 is good but the pace is just incredibly slow and it's hard to picture any SGB players actually feeling pressured right now.

I know she didn't really want to in 702 but I think Meuh should throw her weight around more.

[Faker]

There's also just very little point to buddying a town RH9 all the way over in SGB. If my gameplan is to buddy and exploit RH9, I just keep RH9 in MD and clear him. Instead I rolled the dice that Meuh doesn't spiritually connect with her friend for some tonal/meta reason that I will have no clue how to dislodge.

The current plan is also to flip MD first, so even if I'm trying to steer RH9 away from scumreading my partner in SGB, it all goes out the window when my alignment gets confirmed before any SGB votes happen. There's literally zero point in buddying anyone in that minigame, the only person I have to convince is Meuh.

[Faker]

Was something about that post concerning to you?

[Faker]

I see no issue with the statement. Players sometimes get concerned about how readily I speak about a scum-Faker world as though it were interchangeable with the real one, ex. "I rolled the dice" instead of a more qualified "As scum I would hypothetically have thrown the dice".

If you think that's an issue, that's on you. After 12 years you really stop caring to qualify everything with "but I'm town"

[Faker]

Like I said before games were assigned, I think MD works against a lot of my strengths for that reason. I don't have that firm "I'm town!" self-righteous indignation, without a concrete difference in outcome to work towards, the color of the PM is completely arbitrary and doesn't matter. I'm completely lacking in the sincerity or naivete that a lot of people decide 1v1s with, it's just another random Tuesday. The degree to where I am validated just in color of my role PM is that if I get frustrated with a terrible argument I can say "Okay, we'll see the answer postgame" and call it there.

There are two things in my mind that make my role PM not arbitrary. First is that marcistar is not nearly so comfortable and uniform as scum as I am, and that can be exploited. Second, there is a concrete difference in outcome to pursue in Sillyposting/SGB. I'm not a moron and know I have to appear to solve those games as scum, but there is a difference in actually solving them and pretending to.

[Faker]

For an example of what I mean with the "First is that marcistar is not nearly so comfortable..." point is that she claimed earlier that she can be LHF, that I'm trying to get an easy win by going against her, etc. I think she believes this of herself in general, so I'm happy to roll with her hypothetically saying it as town.

From a town-marci perspective, though, is Faker-scum just so obvious and no one but marci-town can see it, or would I be intimidating with how much force and control I've had, and an obstacle that is going to be hard for herself and the town to overcome?

It's egotistical for me to say I'd expect the second from her, but I do.

[Faker]

I still don't anticipate being around tonight or tomorrow and think Meuh should throw her weight around more.

I'll let whatever quotes she pulls speak for themselves but if getting thoughts from you and giving feedback on your thought processes is the charge, sure I'm guilty. At some point I would like to convert this to a read. I've also been eager to get more out of Dragons so lol @ it being solely you.

[Faker]

My quick comment to Dragons is that you've seen how precise and sharp my tone is when I want to bruteforce a townread.

The "off" that you're citing is being openly mechanistic and barely trying to muster up any extra sincerity. It might not be +town of me to be this way, but you've seen that I have no problem at all keeping my tone such that 90% of the table instinctively townreads it for weeks on end.

This read is not at all clear to me and I am again concerned that you have no idea what notes to hit with me. There has been very little worry over the disproportionate influence I have had on the game, and that was the downfall of the town in D&C.

[Faker]

I am absolutely flummoxed by that characterization but it is not wholly unexpected.

I'll get out of your way though.

[Faker]

A very hard part of this for me is being sure on Dwlee99; it is unfortunately easy as scum for them to be right on MD today. The biggest +town is the doublelock but as noted before, it's not as set in stone clearing as I would prefer.

[Faker]

like i don't want to take away from your good scumplay faker i apologize if i was coming across like that you did fool me

It's not that, and I'm not offended. The perspective is also not unexpected. It was that there was a lot of work set up to make both of you feel that way about each other to begin with, and I thought that had been communicated.

Either way I don't really see this as the place to rehash my perspective or play that game. I'm satisfied that the lesson you took from it passes as plausible.

[Faker]

like i know shes got to be scum, but i dont think im being convincing enough, im trying my best to prove it but fakers a very good player ughh

I don't know if switching the messaging randomly was exactly what I had in mind when I suggested this, but at least she's open to my feedback in how to portray herself.

[Faker]

This game's pace is almost painfully slow. We have time on the deadline but should use it intelligently.

I'd really start putting pressure with an eye towards actually resolving a game, whether it be MD or SGB. Some idea of a target date, whether you strongly believe in it or not. I've been absent and not able to pressure much in my own right but this is a snail's pace and I feel like I am no closer to solving SGB than I was 3 days ago.

[Faker]

I don't know if I agree but that's at least the kind of statement I like to see so hype

[Faker]

I'm tired as fuck but am planning to spend most of tomorrow on mafia so w/e

But also stuff like 267 I have a hard time believing comes from a scum pair so hmm

This is a good point. I wouldn't call it unfair if it's S/S but it's a nice touch and very clever if so.

But then also they pushed each other from day 1, right? That makes less sense because Pooky getting to win sillyposting seemed unlikely at the time right?
So they wouldn't be planning that S/T stuff

Not sure this makes as much sense. You still have to plan for flips even if you think someone will win the minigame. Dwlee99 can push marcistar without thinking it means you're significantly more likely to vote her as a result.

[Faker]

God I am so fucking wiped and my mind doesn't work right.

Dwle99 can push marcistar without thinking that whatever minigame distribution/clear they wind up picking means their distance attempts will actually do significant harm to the other, it's not restricted to just you on Day 1.

[Faker]

could be faker and dwlee i think that's where i'm at atm

I think it might be it, Faker's stance regarding Dwlee is kinda iffy to me

imo Dwlee flips scum either way though so it'd still be tricky to solve MD with a red Dwlee flip

I am absolutely horrible at reading Dwlee99 and I know it. I telegraphed this on Day 1 but there are plenty of references to the same fact in other games.

This is compounded when the bulk of their posting today has been doubling down on someone I know is scum. I was skeptical of their jump on Day 1 but clearly they were right.

[Faker]

could be faker and dwlee i think that's where i'm at atm

What changed?

I also don't see why I explicitly flag for you that you are about to get rolled the same exact way you did in D&C again as scum instead of just letting you fall into it. It'd be one thing if you were about to notice. You weren't even close to it.

[Faker]

If that's supposed to be a scumtell, and not the lens through which I am trying to read you, then fucking lmao dude

[Faker]

I normally struggle to read you and find you completely null and underwhelming.

If only there was some sort of baseline idea I have, a game where I extensively interacted with, felt out, and successfully pulled the seams apart of your towngame. Such a paradigm and experience to draw on when trying to understand your play would be so helpful for a player I normally find null and a coinflip. If only that lens, that paradigm existed for me to view your play through.

[Faker]

I let you lose the game the same way over and over again that you did in D&C as scum.

I try to use the knowledge I gained from D&C about you as town to get insight into someone I generally do not find easy to read for lack of content or real stances.

This is not difficult or complex whatsoever. Instead I'm feeling like fucking Dunnstral.

[Faker]

Can you be more explicit with that first line?

I'm also not sold on the second, I just don't really think that's the way RH9 thinks about the game.

[Faker]

ie. the quotes for me to reference that TMI RH9

[Faker]

I asked if it was an argument for me to be scum, or a complaint for my insistence on using the game as a lens.

could be faker and dwlee i think that's where i'm at atm

What changed?

I also don't see why I explicitly flag for you that you are about to get rolled the same exact way you did in D&C again as scum instead of just letting you fall into it. It'd be one thing if you were about to notice. You weren't even close to it.

i think you're thinking too hard about the D and C game

If that's supposed to be a scumtell, and not the lens through which I am trying to read you, then fucking lmao dude

I don't really know what to tell you. You didn't respond to my question and your response on the substantive counter has been ambiguous.

[Faker]

I could really go all day here if I felt like burning my time. If you're not going to answer the question or respond to the substantive point I'm not going to walk you through anything. I am content to let you lose and have you blame it on others again.

[Faker]

By the way, what does everybody think of a Pooky-marci-Dwlee team?
I'm leaning there right now.

@RH9 so you scumread Pooky because Luke said so?

Yeah.
You got me.
It was mainly because of that.

@Faker

Uhhhhh 723 here is strange but I need to revisit the context of the initial read+Luke's so this might take me a minute.

[Faker]

And yet I might wind up with a real say in yours. Annoying.

[Faker]

Can go weigh in on 830 if you're tired of my condescension, you're not going to succeed in changing my view of you and it's not worth your time to deal with me.

[Faker]

By the way, what does everybody think of a Pooky-marci-Dwlee team?
I'm leaning there right now.

Why was Pooky in here?

From my PoE.
I TRed Luke and Penguin, leaving behind him.

By the way, what does everybody think of a Pooky-marci-Dwlee team?
I'm leaning there right now.

Why was Pooky in here?

From my PoE.
I TRed Luke and Penguin, leaving behind him.

To be honest, I actually had Penguin in the PoE originally.
However, I would admit that one reason I moved him to a TR was mainly because I trusted Luke's read on Pooky.
As for my TR on Luke, it was that switch from jovial to serious. I know Luke's scumgame and he's not the sort to suddenly change from jovial to serious in one phase.

Contextually this is a better explanation, but I actually find this somewhat persuasive because of the time difference.

There's a 12 minute difference, and I would not be surprised if RH9 realized afterwards that 485 was

before

Penguin posted. Having a townread on him would therefore make no sense, and this is something I think RH9 would feel compelled to fix as scum. It's a bit weird to come back later here as town.

[Faker]

FWIW I came out of this page thinking Dragons is more town. I do buy his explanation around D&C and think he's more likely to persist in his objection in 714 as town. Some of that carries over to 818 but I feel stronger about 714: I had just insisted on my perspective in the post he's quoting and made clear I was not to be dissuaded on that point. I would have expected him to find a way around it or settle for my acknowledgement that the mere possibility of making the swap didn't mean he actually made the swap.

[Faker]

I do buy his explanation around D&C

This isn't clear.

I'm referring to our back and forth about why he was fine with me being so vocal and steering so much of this game, where he chalked the lesson of D&C more to the absence of Dunnstral.

[Faker]

You're not really drawing distinctions in the types of arguments here.

Your initial post, which was that you TR'd Luke and Penguin, seems to go against reality since Penguin hadn't yet contributed anything to the game at the time. This is a hole that really needs some sort of explanation or admittance of error if noticed.

My post just now was citing a back-and-forth with Dragons. There were several points made at this time, and there's little doubt one exists or that it contradicts a real event. It's more akin to me saying "I want that ball" and pointing to close group of five, then going "Oh, the [singular] blue one"

If your presented explanation is valid and true, then that's okay and the onus is on me for doubting it. That said, I do doubt it: TRing Penguin because you trust town-Luke on scum-Pooky is technically valid, but categorizing Penguin as a townread for it is odd and kind of circular. The critical point is Luke's scumread on Pooky which makes it not a complete circle, but it's bizarre to call Pooky scum via PoE when you are in fact working in the complete opposite direction (Penguin town via PoE)

[Faker]

I can distill my interpretation of those two posts further to show the point and what I mean by "opposite direction". Process of elimination works by taking things out of a bucket and looking at what is left inside.

Your first post had Pooky as scum via PoE, as you townread Lukewarm and Penguin. This implies you have two reads and the one left out is Pooky.

Your second post had Penguin as town via PoE, as you had Lukewarm as town and trusted his (scum)read on Pooky. This clarifies you have two reads and the one left out is Penguin.

We could try and rework the first to align with the second, but no matter how you slice it the first post of Pooky being scum "for PoE" doesn't really make sense. He's the second read in the chain (via trusting Lukewarm), not the leftover third.

The first post in a vacuum would be very problematic since Penguin hadn't contributed, and it is tough to believe he would be a townread on his own merit. The second post in a vacuum is valid, though calling Penguin a "townread" over something like "town by default" is non-traditional. My issue is the difference in described process that seems to crop up in the correction.

[Faker]

I am content to let you lose and have you blame it on others again.

It's almost like I'm not concerned at all with my flip clearing someone in SGB.

My contempt comes out when I perceive a refusal to try or to critically evaluate something; it raises the question of why I'm bothering to type to someone at all. I'd contrast this approach with the one I take with RH9. I don't mind completely switching up how I write and going to great lengths to explain my perspective to him because it's going to get read and critically engaged with.

You might take issue with my more venomous side regardless of alignment, but I have no intention of debating it here or ever.

[Faker]

It's nice of Dwlee99 but it's not like I don't solve or put in effort tracking as scum; my entire shtick is out-solving the town to strongarm and then use that position to control where attention goes. If RH9 is town and I'd be advancing a miselim great, but bussing is also pretty free for me with how the game currently is.

Mostly still a holding pattern here for me on SGB. Dragons is still a townlean after our last set of interactions.

[Faker]

It's also why I've explicitly let off the reins repeatedly and tried to let posts happen without me pressuing in the vein of my interaction with Dragons.

Unfortunately without that we get maybe 5 posts a day and things slow down to a crawl.

[Faker]

That wasn't a statement about Dragons specifically, but the lethargy of the broader game.

[Faker]

And again, the point wasn't so much to castigate players for inactivity. The point is that I've ceded a lot of control to try and leave room for players to be more proactive without me breathing down their necks, in contrast to my scumgame.

It hasn't worked out quite how I was hoping, movement has been slower than I like it to be, but I've left the room there and if everyone else wants to play this pace, I'm not town dictator.

[Faker]

Skimming through, I too am a little underwhelmed by marcistar's explanation on selection. "Think I'd mix things up [in Sillyposting]" doesn't sound like a real reason, and I'm surprised she doesn't find the idea interesting.

I also thought Dwlee99's jump to SGB instantly with her was bizarre. Dwlee has two paces of play they can go to but it seems purely reactionary to marcistar and not at all rooted in what the minigames themselves are. I expect Dwlee to know those instant reads are a starting place and picking the game instantly as a result of one is questionable.

I don't say all of my thoughts

I'd like you to revisit your pregame thoughts on playing around the minigames now, if you don't mind.

[Faker]

wtf dwlee how you going to pick a place alrdy

If you loved me you'd help me kill Marci

I'm tempted to join just to help you yeet this Canadian but my talents might be needed elsewhere

I kinda want you to play conftown or 1v1 so I can read it after

This back/forth is interesting. Maybe this is Dwlee99 and Pooky is being cheeky, but what they're discussing would be scum autoloss.

[Faker]

I also still think this is a weird interaction for S/S theater.

This might sound bizarre but I think that the interactions between Dwlee and marci seem like they are aligned, possibly even scum together.
What does everybody else think?

i wanna know what made you think this.

im pretty sure at this point their push on me is partly in fact that theyre scum and partly fact they seem to hate me

Bruh what makes you think I hate you vs just think you're scum?

?? I don't see how your plays around me this game are town motivated

also ive felt like u hate me for awhile but ive just never pointed it out. to me its pretty obvious, you always find a way to come after me no matter what anyone else tells you.
idk what i ever did to you

I think you're scum. I am pushing you. I think it's straight forward.

On the personal note I definitely don't hate you or even dislike you. I enjoy playing with you. I don't really even remember particularly pushing you in the past but my memory isn't great? If I scumread you a lot repeatedly it was probably just that I scumread your playstyle and not about you personally at all

But maybe Meuh has better insight into how marcistar plays cards like this

[Faker]

MEUHHHHHHHH

[Faker]

I think there are a few different ways to make the swap make sense.

We've covered Dwlee99/marci already but this forces one to swap into MD. Dwlee99 over would be fine IMO, it'd actually look really good depending on who flips first. So yeah, I think that's another weird hoop to jump through to justify that team.

I've covered Dragons/marci and why marci is the one to come over there with me remaining here.

RH9/marci makes a good bit of sense, even if not as much as Dragons/marci. I can see RH9 not really wanting to go against me, and clearing me is even more unpalatable. marcistar might think she can tonally manipulate you into a win and Pooky probably encourages her to give it a shot, YOLO.

Pooky is also on record from PYP as REALLY not wanting to go against me specifically, not because he thinks it's unwinnable but because it's a miserable experience for the entire game. It also looked like he specifically was targeting Luke/Penguin.

[Faker]

I'd also keep in mind that I strongly wanted to go into Sillyposting; I abandoned this after seeing Pooky immediately jump in with Luke. Pooky has a

ton

of respect for and faith in my scumgame, and in particular my planning and foresight. He leaves that game to me if I want it, 100%.

[Faker]

I also

still

almost went into Sillyposting as a result of my townread on Luke and my confidence that I could solve the game, miserable though it may be. I held off because Luke specifically asked me not to come.

[Faker]

As much as I want to believe it that third line is an...extremely strong statement and feels like a bluff. The first 2 I would buy.

[Faker]

LMAO

SGB is the easiest game for scum to win. It means it's easier if you think you've got a better chance to win against me in MD than marcistar would, which I'm honestly not sure if that's what you're arguing but part of me really hopes you are.

I'd love some RH9 trash talk about how you'd run my ass out of town NO SWEAT

[Faker]

I can see a world where you go to MD and clear me honestly.

I dunno SGB is such a fucked game, lmao