Ausuka's Mini Normal Review, June 2022

[implosion]

Hi! My review info for my mini normal setup is below

Opening Post

Mini Normal XXXX: Frog Images

Game moderated by Ausuka and reviewed by X and Y.

Players:

Strikethrough

signifies a player that has been replaced. *- An asterisk signifies a player that has been prodded.

Spoiler: Alive

Spoiler: Dead

Spoiler: Events and Votecounts

Rules

General Rules:
1. Site Rules apply.
2. You may not quote your role PM, you may not quote any other PMs from me, and you may not quote the time at which I sent you any PM, nor may you attempt to prove any form of private communication in any way. See more information here.
3.

This shade of purple

is the colour I'll use to post vote counts, edit things into other people's posts, etc. Feel free to use it if you want to but don’t try to impersonate me please.
4. If you have a question or concern, or if you think that I may have made an error, do not hesitate to ask in-topic or by PM. Be sure to bold requests directed at me so that I see them.
5. If you break any of these rules, you could be warned, force-replaced, or modkilled, depending on the severity of what you did.
6. If a player is modkilled, they will die and become a Neutral Survivor resulting in their loss.
7. Please be respectful and kind towards other players. I understand that Mafia can be a heated game sometimes, but there is a line, and if you cross it the game stops being fun. In particular, personal attacks are not allowed.
8. Once you die you may not post anymore.
9. No encryption please. Breadcrumbing is fine, but things like encrypting your role into scrambled text are not. If you have any questions about what does and does not violate this rule, feel free to ask me, and I will answer.
10. Don’t claim scum with another player in a serious manner. I will judge what counts as serious; don't toe the line. Claiming scum by yourself is fine, but please don’t lose the game intentionally by doing so.
11. Don’t work against your win condition.
12. Don’t use provable randomness. Saying “I rolled a dice and it landed on 2” is acceptable; posting a screenshot of you using random.org, or using dice tags, is not acceptable.
13. Never use OGI/outside game influence, including trust tells and discussing the game outside the thread. See more information here.
14. If you want to replace out, PM me and don’t discuss it in thread. See more information here.
15. Use your common sense; I try to include as much as I can but this is probably not an exhaustive list of all things you are not allowed to do.
16. I reserve the right to change any of these rules or any of the time, or make any judgement irregardless of what these rules say (although I will try to follow what I have said here as closely as possible.)
17. The spirit of these rules is what counts, not the exact wording. If you find a loophole in these rules, don't be surprised when you get punished anyway.

Voting, Elimination, and Deadlines:

18. As with any mafia game, you can vote for a player to get them eliminated, you can vote for a No Elimination, or you can not vote at all.
18. Votes must use the bold tags or the vote tags, like this: VOTE: X or this:

Vote: X

.
19. An elimination requires a majority (over 50%) vote. For example, when there are 9 players alive, it will take 5 votes to eliminate, because that is the smallest number over 50% of the number of players. A no elimination only requires 50% of votes.
20. Day 1 has a deadline of 14 days. Other days have a deadline of 10 days. Night phases have a deadline of 2 days. I may extend this if I deem it appropriate. When the deadline expires, the day will end without an elimination.
21. When an elimination is reached or deadline expires, I will lock the thread and start the Night phase as soon as I can. You are allowed to post before I do this, if you want.

Prodding and Activity:

22. If a player fails to post for 48 consecutive hours, they will be prodded. If that player does not post for another 24 hours after they've been prodded, they'll be replaced.
23. If you are going away, or if you have limited access to the site, notify me by pm or in-topic so that I know not to prod or replace you. The maximum amount of time you may go without posting due to V/LA is 96 hours (four days).

Game Related:

24. This game is a Normal Setup and follows the Normal guidelines.
25. The game contains 10 town-aligned players and 3 mafia-aligned players.
26. Any PTs will be open at all times.
27. If you have a night action that you can use, PM your action to me. If you have a PT, you can also send in your night actions there, using bold text.

Spoiler: Sample VT Role PM

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Setup

13 players

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Non-Consecutive Night Doctor
Town Roleblocker
Town Weak 1-shot Neighbourizer

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Vanilla Townie

Welcome!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Non-Consecutive Night Doctor

Welcome!

You are a

Town Non-Consecutive Night Doctor

.

In the night phase, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, killing actions targeting this player will fail. This ability can not be used on consecutive night phases.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Roleblocker

Welcome!

You are a

Town Roleblocker

.

In the night phase, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be unable to use any abilities that night.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Weak 1-shot Neighbourizer

Welcome!

You are a

Town Weak 1-shot Neighbourizer

.

In the night phase, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be added to a Private Topic with that player. However, if your target is not aligned with the Town, you will die. This ability may only be used once.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

The other members of the Mafia faction are X, a

Mafia Goon

, and Y, a

Mafia Goon

.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[implosion]

Primary: mastina
Secondary: Datisi

[Datisi]

ego

looks scumsided on first glance. unless the roleblocker hits scum or lives until only one scum left (both of which are unlikely), they're pretty much negative utility

[Ausuka]

hi

yeah I guess I see how it's scumsided but not 100% sure what to add? I wanted a setup with like, low power on both sides

I guess making the Neighbourizer loyal instead of weak would help town here? Maybe making it 2 shots?

Or maybe just replace a VT with a weakish investigative, like Rolecop?

[Datisi]

i think making the weak neighbuorizer 2-shot AND adding a rolecop would like, maybe approach being balanced. maybe not. i'm gonna let mastina chime in here

[mastina]

i think making the weak neighbuorizer 2-shot AND adding a rolecop would like, maybe approach being balanced. maybe not. i'm gonna let mastina chime in here

That's my thoughts as well. The weak neighborizer needs a little bit more to have the impact desired, and the town needs a small push.

That said, while the town as-is is a bit too weak, I'm worried that if the town becomes as strong as they need to be with the above, would make the game, while balanced, potentially unfun for the scum since they'll have almost no counterplay. (Which is to say, it'd be balanced, so I could pass it, but I believe that the mafia would potentially encounter a situation where there's nothing they can do, with them feeling hopeless.)

The scum can only prevent a guilty by knowing about the Weak role in advance, and can only generate a false guilty by targeting the Neighborizer, with

almost

no ability to generate a false innocent (the only way to do so is for the mafia to kill the weak neighborizer on a night the weak neighborizer neighborizes them).

They also technically have two killstoppers to deal with--the chance the killstoppers gets value is incredibly small (the exact right block, or the exact right protect which is only available half the time), but if the Weak Neighborizer targets scum, then it takes only 1 stopped kill for the town to effectively gain a mislim. If the Weak Neighborizer only targets town, it does take two stopped kills, which is far less likely, but the situation still seems a bit frustrating to the scum.

Basically, every way things could go right for the scum, lies in the hands of the town requiring a lot of luck for the scum. The scum have very little agency.

Basically,
I feel like,
Non-Consecutive Doctor + Roleblocker + Weak 2x Neighborizer + Rolecop
vs
3 Goons,
Is balanced, but potentially unfun for the scum.

Ideally, you'd get some sort of net-neutral adjustment which gives the scum just a little bit extra in terms of counterplay, but keeping the balance of the above about the same.

My only thought is maybe a scum Informed (probably of the existence of a Weak 2x Neighborizer, but potentially something like 'there are 2 town killstopper roles in this game'), since that provides the scum more in terms of counterplay simply by having a better idea of what they are facing, but the buff to the scumteam is counterbalanced by buffing the town, since an Informed Mafioso if not claiming Informed would be a guilty to the rolecop if investigated.

[Ausuka]

I think the most important thing is that the setup is fun to play. I'm fine giving scum an informed if you think that would make it fun to play. If this is more of a "this is still not a fun combination of roles but this will make it tolerate I guess" situation, maybe I should just come up with a new setup?

[Ausuka]

Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer

Welcome!

You are a

Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer

.

In the night phase, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be added to a Private Topic with that player. However, if your target is not aligned with the Town, you will die. This ability may only be used two times.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Town Rolecop

Welcome!

You are a

Town Rolecop

.

In the night phase, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be informed of that player's role.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Informed

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Informed

.

The other members of the Mafia faction are X, a

Mafia Goon

, and Y, a

Mafia Goon

.

You are informed that a Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer exists.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

The other members of the Mafia faction are X, a

Mafia Informed

, and Y, a

Mafia Goon

.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

I think this should be fine for role PMs?

Rolecop results would be;
- X is Vanilla.
- X is a Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer.
- X is a Non-Consecutive Night Doctor.
- X is a Roleblocker.
- X is an Informed.
- You received no result.

[Datisi]

well, you're missing a couple (assuming you hit "submit" too early), and the neighbourizer role pm might need rewording? the current role pm implies that each new neighbourized player gets added to a new pt, when that is not the case.

[Ausuka]

I only posted the ones that would need changing from the OP, unless I'm mistaken I think the original VT, doc and RB PMs wouldn't have changed?

I'll reword the Neighbourizer PM

[Ausuka]

Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer

Welcome!

You are a

Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer

.

In the night phase, you may target another player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be added to your Private Topic. However, if your target is not aligned with the Town, you will die. This ability may only be used two times.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Is this ok?

[Datisi]

i forgor there are role pm's in the op, sorry

sounds better to me, though it's up to mastina anyway

[Ausuka]

Oh I forgot I want to change the mafia wincons to avoid any silliness where the endgame is RB Vs mafia and it's a draw when actually that's super unsatisfying, I'll edit those again

[Ausuka]

Mafia Informed

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Informed

.

The other members of the Mafia faction are X, a

Mafia Goon

, and Y, a

Mafia Goon

.

You are informed that a Town Weak 2-shot Neighbourizer exists.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when Mafia are at least 50% of the alive players, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mafia Goon

Welcome!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.

The other members of the Mafia faction are X, a

Mafia Informed

, and Y, a

Mafia Goon

.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when Mafia are at least 50% of the alive players, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Please confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[Datisi]

the wincon i usually use for mafia is "you win when all threats to mafia have been eliminated (or nothing can stop this from occurring), and at least one mafia member is alive", though i would count a maia vs town roleblocker 1v1 as a mafia win. because it's the day. and i imagine that once mafia gains parity, they just murder everyone openly.

that said. i may or may not be wrong to do that and should change that wincon next time i run a game LMAO

the new wincon also seems fine.

[Ausuka]

I think your interpretation of that wincon is very reasonable but I can maybe see a literal minded player inferring the opposite?? Idk

[mastina]

i forgor there are role pm's in the op, sorry

sounds better to me, though it's up to mastina anyway

I think that it's good!

[Datisi]

aight, i'm fine with the setup, and everything else seems fine as well

mastina?

[mastina]

Pretty sure we're good; I'll take fault if I missed anything but I think it's good to go.

[implosion]

Cool. Putting it in signups then~