Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[Corwinoid]

Hi Alex, hi Bella.

Bella 100% town because she's always town.

I'm caught up on the game but I don't have a lot to add right now, I've stayed up late to get the replacement sorted and I'm going to bed.

Hard town reading Crescent this game though.

[Corwinoid]

Yo Corwin! Are you town?

Of course mate!

Hi corwin! Are you town now?

Are we on the same team this time? I think so since BBT isn't here.

[Corwinoid]

Hi Alex, hi Bella.

Bella 100% town because she's always town.

I'm caught up on the game but I don't have a lot to add right now, I've stayed up late to get the replacement sorted and I'm going to bed.

Hard town reading Crescent this game though.

so ur caught up and ur only reads are that bella and crescent are town?

Crescent's my only real read. Bella's just always town.

And yeah, when I replace in there's a honeymoon period were I don't really have reads until I start interacting with people and get an actual feel for them.

[Corwinoid]

Crescent's my only real read.

Why is Crescent town?

Because she's not choking the game.

[Corwinoid]

what do u think about shoshin asking for votes on datisi/gamma[/quote]
At first all of page 18 bothered me from Shoshin a lot, since it's low effort and lacks any kind of internal consistency. But the lacking internal consistency is probably a town tell.

[Corwinoid]

so you think its townie of shoshin?

do u have any opinions on datisi or gamma? since shoshins pushing for them

Town/null on it, but I guess we'll get a different read now.

I don't yet on the other two. I'm in a meeting for the next couple of hours, but I'll start digging into isos when I can.

[Corwinoid]

The timing on the reveal sucks since a player in it was unconfirmed. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around the purpose of it... does anybody except a hypothetical TA gain info by knowing there's a 'hood? Do those of us in it lose the possibility of gaining info from it being outed? I just don't get how it affects anything (but I don't really understand how they affect the game anyway).

Something feels off about the timing and the VLA. I know it's a holiday and I'm trying not to let a VLA influence me, but it just feels off.

[Corwinoid]

And on the note about Corwin going after SYD's VLA... That VLA was made at virtually the start of the game, in post #56. It kinda ended up a little bit irrelevant anyway because SYD has still been around and posting, albeit at a low clip (Tied with Bella for lowest poster). I don't really understand the basis behind attacking it. It feels kinda dirty.

I didn't mean it as an attack, I meant it as pointing out my own viewpoint is tainted by it

[Corwinoid]

Dag how did I not get that pagetop

Stolen!

[Corwinoid]

@mod

Ignore my 550.
I didn't realise that Shosin was voting Datisi.

So are you intending to be not voting, or still on Datisi?

[Corwinoid]

Datisi, if I'm interpreting correctly, you think that STD's inactivity is NAI and that Corniwoid's attacks on it is bad?

I didn't mean it as an attack, I meant it as pointing out my own viewpoint is tainted by it

My point was that *I* think it's NAI, even if it feels awkward to go "I want to see what happens, oh yeah, VLA".

[Corwinoid]

He never makes an argument against either, but what's in his ISO concerning Corwin is glaring. He highlights Corwin three separate times.

I mean, TBF I've been low activity so far since I replaced and on the defensive since the VLA comment. I don't think Alex is entirely out of line here. OTOH my D1 play seems to be consistently crap so I'm kind of getting use to it at this point.

[Corwinoid]

You kinda missed the actually relevant part of that post.

All 3 times he highlights you are to try to feed you to Shoshin. It reads as "Hey come on look at this guy *nudge nudge*".

Maybe. People here tend to do the goopy buddying thing at least as much from town as scum so I'm still out on how to read that generally. I see it, but I'm not sure it's AI.

[Corwinoid]

EBWOP: Or rather, I'm not sure it's scum indicative.

[Corwinoid]

Corwin feels like he refuses to take a stance on anything at all aside from hard calling me town for ???? reasons. All I can say about that playerslot so far is "it exists".

I gave my reason. Your style of high volume posting doesn't happen to be shitting up the game. And it looks like you're actually trying to solve.

[Corwinoid]

Crescent's my only real read.

Why is Crescent town?

Because she's not choking the game.

[Corwinoid]

Spoiler:

how am i "trying to take advantage of the existing datisi push" when the primary person doing it is...marcistar, who you think is scum? (and shoshin, but she is no longer a player in this game). i cant be scum taking advantage of other scum...

and at that moment in time, it felt like u were buddying up to try that...your first reaction looked like you were outraged she was trying to clear herself in a dirty manner, and then later you pointed out that shes done it before as scum so it shouldnt be read into...the whole thing felt a little 'angry a potential mislim is slipping away to me'...even though you said you dont think shoshin is scum, that only happened after crescent made it claer she had no interest in pushing shoshin anymore...

i don't solve for teams on day 1. i don't think it's likely you two are scum together. if she's town, then your push on me feels much worse.

shoshin is gone sure, but that looked like you were trying to get some momentum going there before her replacement got in and did who knows what.

yeah, i was extremely mad she was trying to imply whatever it was that she was trying to imply. i knew it doesn't make her town. you know why i was mad? because i find that type of play disgusting and i think it ruins games.

you can say "well you only said shoshin is town after---" but at that point it's making the facts fit your narrative, not the other way around. if i had wanted to push shoshin for her play, i would have. i'd have voted her immediately. it'd have been obvious i think she's scum. i didn't think so.

ok you can say youre not solving for a team, but i still expect some level of consistency and right now it feels like you just want to call everyone who suspects you sum regardless of whether it actually makes sense to think that

how could i *possibly* get momentum going when my posts were made *after* the replacement came in? shoshn was already gone, the push died with her, it was already apparent that most people werent convinced by what shoshin was arguing so i have no idea what "momentum" you ere perceiving

i probably shouldnt be getting too into those posts, i agree they were gross but i still think its more likely scum would have a kneejerk hate response to it. thats going to be the last i say about it.

i mean if anything it feels like youre trying to build a narrative here around me voting you by saying stuff like how i was trying to take advantage of some nonexistent momentum against you, i still think the way you spoke to crescent was icky regardless of whatever you say your intentions toward shoshin were or weren't

So much of this post feels like scum trying to manufacture anger/frustration, and the naked vote on marci is hella convenient.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: scamper

[Corwinoid]

It's ok you can call me a tryhard I deserve it

Just take the complement <3

I've been the #1 poster by volume in all 3 of my games here. I definitely know all about tryharding~

That's not always a positive thing. Over activity can hurt town and be a scum tactic also.

[Corwinoid]

I just woke up and there are 8 or 9 new pages of you and marci fluffing it up substituting the submit button for the enter key. That's the point... I'm still catching up.

[Corwinoid]

Lol I feel like we're the old men trying desperately to keep up and every time we show up these youngins shout HOW BOUT YOU PLAY HARDER

WHY AREN'T YOU REPLYING TO ALL OF THE POSTS AT 5AM YOUR TIME?!

[Corwinoid]

yall im sorry ill stop talking if it makes things easier

No, it's fine really. Some of my personal frustration with Crescent boiling over. I'd rather have people more active than not, it's just frustrating when that activity is mostly overnight for me and then I get shit on for not being immediately caught up.

[Corwinoid]

Is that NAI or town? Is it not a viable scum tactic to make people dislike the game enough to make them apathetic?

I read it the same way, as being worried she was pushing us out, and I really don't want my just waking up and being grumpy (mostly at a particular person) to change the way someone's playing either. I'd feel that way as scum too, because yeah, it's a game, but I can see certain players legitimately trying that.

[Corwinoid]

I don't have history with marci, but I've not gotten that vibe, no.

[Corwinoid]

#948 and #949 are a good representative example of why she feels so fake. That's an [incredible] mood swing between those posts.

That’s normal for her

So what you're both basically saying is that virtually every post she's made in the game is strictly NAI because she makes these crazy outbursts that look like fake emotion in every game?

How does anyone actually read such a player?

Voting actions, underlying motivations. Same way you develop logic oriented reads instead of psychological oriented reads on anyone?

[Corwinoid]

Corwin if you're caught up now do you think Marci is mafia?

Not really feeling it, no.

I feel like it's NAI? It seems like she was worried she was stopping Corwin and Johnny from enjoying the game which I think is more indicative of the whole 'everyone is just playing this game to have fun at the end of the day' than win condition

Seems antithetical to “Marci is rude as scum”
Sure she could try to not make the game feel oppressive as scum but I think the execution of stating she didn’t want to make the game hard to read would be different
It doesn’t feel like a PR stunt.

I think this actually puts into words more of what I was feeling than I could think of. 978 just felt super off the cuff and not artificial at all, even if the general 'play' is NAI this doesn't feel like a scum way of replying with it.

[Corwinoid]

I'm also used to playing with guys who treat AtE like a toy and constantly abuse it so the two are probably related.

I am legitimately curious about what you mean here, and if you have some contrived examples?

[Corwinoid]

Oh holy shit, you can actually post more than one sentence at a time.

and these feel exactly like the posts hes making this game, where he keeps making excuses for being behind rather than playing the game, and complaining about how spam is making it hard for him to catch up. i think what hes doing here is more or less identical to that game

If the summation of your argument is new player replacing into games plays cautiously day 1 and you're going to selectively pick the completed game for that, my response is just going to be 'fuck off.' I'll wade through the first half of that after I smoke.

[Corwinoid]

further: its not selective, you have 1 completed game that is not 5+ years old so of course i referenced that

i did take a look at one of your older town games and im not sure how good of a reference it is given the time difference between games, but there were a lot more efforts to actually interact with and qusetion people in a meaningful way even if you started slow, and im not seeing that here, at all

I've changed as a person in the last 5 years, and that last game had an affect on how I feel about the game/site in general and how I want to approach the game, so yes you should disregard those.

i just wanna note its super oironic u accused me of "faking anger/frustration" cuz this is EXACTLY what that looks like to me

okay i was waiting to see if corwinoid would respond and now that hes caught up i want to note that he completely blew off 769 and hasnt justified why he claimed i sounded "angry/frustrated" in that post. what IS frustrating to me is getting ignored and i feel like it keeps happening this game.

I missed 769, which is an effect of waking up to ~10 new pages. Let me restate what I said in 761 though: That

is

scum manufacturing, and so is this. My vote isn't misplaced.

What's ironic is that you both read that newbie game, and have complete context for my introduction which came *500 posts* into this game, after two days, but your entire reaction here is essentially an OMGUS to me pointing out your crap scum play in a particular post and claiming I don't have any actual reads or meaningful interactions, when I exactly mean your slot is scum. And then to try and attack my activity after I've been asleep and you've been on e of the people fluffing the thread and when I'm exactly responding to people in real time, and active in the thread, right this minute is a blatant lie (and I've been talking to STD in the hood this morning also).

Also, I fucking hate people who put this much stock into meta. Especially based off one game. Some pretend tryharding and cherry picking so you can make any case you want.

[Corwinoid]

I'm sorry everyone, I've been our the last day and a half with some unexpected family issues, I'm catching up now.

[Corwinoid]

intent to hammer

This is clearly happening so we might as well speed things up in case we want to decide on another wagon with comfortable time

I also intend to hammer.

At this point I'm mainly just waiting for Corwin to show up and respond to posts.

JK

I don't have the energy to go through everything in the last 10 pages post by post to rebut it, and I know that's shitty. The big point I guess is that I blew up at scamper because I was arguing with my wife at the same time; I've been out while we discuss separating--I wasn't expecting it.

[Corwinoid]

Honestly cresc, I have a life and it's still midday for me, calm down.

[Corwinoid]

UNVOTE: Corwin

Idk I think I need to reassess this game tbh.
Will wait for Corwin to post and address points against him. Agree that JK claim is very… plain for a game that supposedly has an ascetic Miller. Gut reaction is to not buy it but I’m also not comfortable with Corwin being at E1 any more.
I also don’t think Marci comes in with those posts as scum given that she’s a likely launch if Corwin isn’t being voted off today.

Pedit - snap

Are people really taking ascetic miller as a serious claim? Like I completely read it as a joke, and I'm the one person who seems to take things like this too seriously.

I'm still catching up but this was a sticking point for me as I'm reading through.

[Corwinoid]

Counting the hood as a PR seems strange to me.

Did Bella ever actually claim, or did she just soft claim with the 'something weird' post? Did I miss a post here?

[Corwinoid]

I also don't understand why some of you are targeting Marci right now

[Corwinoid]

Bella has not claimed, nor has there ever any need for her to do so.

But people are assuming she's a PR to assess setup against my claim.

[Corwinoid]

^ Complete and utter rubbish.

I didn't rolefish Bella, and if you want to try and read that into that post you're intentionally injecting misinformation into the question. It was exactly relevant to Freedom and Roden evaluating my claim. You don't just get to discard that other people are counting her as a PR when I'm directly responding to that.

"Passively defends"... just fuck off with this shit. Seriously. There are like two or three people on my wagon who are directly going "Yeah, I want to launch Corwin today, but Marci's cool too" and that seems to come out of literally nowhere.

Your 4th point: Stop making shit up. At no point did I act like meta was significant. Other people made a significant point of it, and you want to just drop this crap and literally ignore my last post pointing out that

other people

are the ones making a big deal out of it as a case against me?

JFC I don't know how you breathe without instructions.

Half a page of interactions and I literally want nothing to do with you in this game anymore.

[Corwinoid]

@Corwin

-- What is your current read on Crescent, and why?

At the beginning of the game you said you were hard town reading her.

Roden has also said that you said this in the hood:

Corwin mentioned in the hood that they're separating themself from the game for a bit, partially because of Crescent but also because IRL stuff happened apparently.

They're also accusing Crescent of playing the complete opposite as she did when she was town in the Mini that got brought up. So uh, basically a "no u" argument.

Is this true? Because it appears to contradict your town read of her.

I was asked in the hood if I stuck by that read, more or less, and conceded it might be less sure than I originally thought.

She's probably town, but I literally hate her as a player and intend to blacklist her after this game. I hate her flood posting, I hate her hairbrained trash logic, I hate that she makes games incredibly unfun to be in, and her narcissistic savior complex. I hate that she blatantly violates the rules without apparent repercussions, and that she's repeatedly used a gender oriented attack against me, after I asked her not to.

I think she's trash. She's probably town trash, but I certainly wouldn't say I'm hard town reading her anymore.

[Corwinoid]

You know what, maybe I'm just wrong though. I thought I'd smoke and calm down, but the more I think about 1488 the more it pisses me off that it's all a bunch of out of context bullshit to use as an excuse to pile on a wagon that's already going.

[Corwinoid]

I think I wouldn't mind hearing from another hood member first if they can verify that what Corwin said in 1491 checks out.
Also it might be worth checking if he said all that stuff about her read in the hood chat before or after mini 2273 ended because I think the timing of that can be relevant.

The latter check isn't necessary; I gave a little more detail about my read but not much before, and then "Now that it's over [...]" It's very clear in that thread what's before and after 2273 ended.

[Corwinoid]

Well, I hate to go like this with so little chance to interact with everyone, but it is what it is.

[Corwinoid]

@scamper

Part of it was natural, I was really frustrated exactly while I was typing that because my wife came in to start arguing with me. I meant to come across as a little angry at first and it just really flowed after that. Mainly I was hoping to signal that I was the traitor, and I thought the second of those posts did it, and everyone missed it... I was surprised I was willing to be that blatant.

[Corwinoid]

@Cresc: I said as much in the DT, but I think the bella elim was okay. I also think StD's vig was +town, sorry -- I think it's the best chance town had at not towntunneling scamper, but Alex picked up the mantel and carried it D3 (and I'm really surprised he was the NK). Despite being informed, I kept thinking that scamper was just blatantly scummy this entire game.

[Corwinoid]

It was SO hard to buy you as scum, Scamper, after the way Corwin blew up at you on D1, that was crazy convincing

I lucked into this, really. I had so much RL stuff going on and I was so stressed I played absolutely awful. The reads on me were mostly right-for-the-wrong-reasons, but I felt like I could have and should have done a lot better.

Traitor's hard, I didn't really know what to do, and replacing into that even as an inactive slot with the game ahead of me already was like... oof. I think I was working uphill at that point anyway.

[Corwinoid]

Reading through the scum PT I saw you pick up on the terrible scumplay drop (sorry ). I think it's hilarious that everyone missed this though:

Let me restate what I said in 761 though:

That is scum manufacturing, and so is this.

[Corwinoid]

Is that egregious enough?

[Corwinoid]

Could any of this be remedied by having the game mod post a setup complexity, or tagging complex setups in the queue, without revealing too much about the setup?

I don't mind this game, or this setup, at points it was confusing and at points town were on the right track because of it, then veered off because of it. It's probably fine as long as players know they're getting into this sort of thing ahead of time.