Mini Normal 2276: Around the World - Game Over!

[scamper]

hi hi!

VOTE: bellaphant

[scamper]

first!!!

VOTE: ausuka

whoever doesn't have an avatar, please get one, it's really difficult for me to read the game otherwise. i will even resize it for you if needed.

got one! (:

[scamper]

okay asukas scummy already

now we gotta find scum #2

y tho? i dont agree

[scamper]

okay asukas scummy already

now we gotta find scum #2

y tho? i dont agree

theyre trying too hard to appear helpful

what has she done thats trying to appear helpful? all she did was claim her role...

[scamper]

Pooky gave me Ascetic Miller

tbh i kinda think ur bsing that

y do u think that its bs?

[scamper]

Hi. My role in this game is Ascetic Miller.

No, I don't know why anyone would add Miller to a role which can't be investigated.

I feel like I got a middle finger instead of a Role PM this game

VOTE: Datisi

OMGUS

maybe helpful isnt the right word

but these do not inspire gpod vibes

i can prob explain more on why that is once im done work but HDJSJSH

ok...

[scamper]

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

[scamper]

i have townings on crescent!

i also weirdly think gamma is townie

[scamper]

go on...

[scamper]

Marci's vibes seem a bit off

Datisi feels kinda town though

I like this

y?

[scamper]

Because I agree? I don't get town from marci at all, especially the 'i haven't voted thing', which is weird in itself.

I have high hopes of being able to read Roden too.

ok, just wondering why you chose that roden post when he wasn't the first to take iissue with marci? and why do you have hopes of being able to read him? have you played with him before?

[scamper]

i think aesthetic miller is a pretty easy fakeclaim for mafia to make, it helps them in the way of : town wont investigate them, and people wont really worry about them until much later in game where they've already had time to mess around.

how many games have u seen where mafia claimed ascetic or miller?

i have no idea how games get reviewed on this site, but i also think an "aesthetic miller" is likely to raise a question in the review process. i could be wrong on that though.

y would it raise a question?

heir vote on datisi (15) is just attention graby in a way i dont really vibe with. but this point is a bit gRaSpInG aT sTrAwS

the vote looked very obviously non-serious to me.....

[scamper]

gm all!

VOTE: Roden

Marci's town.

Roden needs more votes.

I'm seeing some BTS solving here. There's a pretty good chance you're town.

Why do you think Marci is town?

why do you think unexplained reads is a towntell?

idk guys maybe because i AM town??? smh acting like its so hard

dont like this

To elaborate, very unlikely that scum Marci calls town Ausuka's role fake. Equally unlikely that scumteam Ausuka/Marci planned this bit of drama to start the game off (besides the obvious pro-town effect of their play getting us out of RVS, it just seems too much to pull off this quickly with no real scum logic behind the play).

Ausuka's 26 feels like fake frustration. I'm surprised anyone suspects Marci over Ausuka here. Strongly doubt it's genuine from everyone involved.

i dont understand your reasoning as to why scum doesnt call a miller claim fake, and i dont agree with ausuka seeming fake. my biggest issue is that i cant get marci to explain her logic for WHY she thinks the claim seems fake and her initial reason for the scumread had nothing to do with believing the claim - she said it was for "trying too hard to appear helpful" and then when i questioned her on it she changed her reasoning...

[scamper]

Why do you think it's more likely for scum to fake claim an absurd-sounding role than for scum to doubt an absurd-sounding role?

Scum are more likely to fake-claim than town.

ok but we have no indication the claim is fake, and town can real claim...

my issue is this: i think town true claims miller far, far more often than scum fake claims miller. ascetic is probably a tossup because both alignments can true claim it but at worst its =rand. in general i think a miller claim is >rand town and i dont find ausuaka scummy otherwise. i can re-evaluate down the line if ausuka gets scummy but i have no reason to think shes scum right now

[scamper]

I'm fairly confident in Roden/Gamma/Ausuka/Marci/Alex as town.

hm i guess i should read up more

[scamper]

bellaphant seems town.

...why

Oh no, I've drawn aggro from the guy who just expertly avoided actually answering the previous question asked to him.

dont like this either

Frankly though, he's already pointed out three people as scum, someone to be scum if we're not, and also said an inactive is probably scum so he's probably wrong on the three of us anyway.

It reeks of flinging poop around and seeing where it sticks. He's pretty well thrown shade at half the players in the game in the first 100 posts.

ok but is that actually a scumtell?

sdcum

generally

doesnt try to make enemies with half the game right away. whats the purpose of "flinging poop around" if its likely to earn the ire of a bunch of people. even if i disagree with shoshin i dont think her reads are fake based on how shes explained them. this feels like omgus to me

[scamper]

Oh hey I see Scamper posted Scamper if you didn't answer the question in my post please answer it now thank you.

Will read later.

what post? i'm searching your iso and i dont see it

[scamper]

i don't see how thats scummy..?

why would scum want to naked vote and draw attention to themselves?
why would shoshin

not

want to shade people this early on? it'll cause reactions for sure and help better read people? like how ur having a tantrum over them scumreading you rn
why are

you

framing everything they do in such a bad way? the certain words, "bullshitting", "dodging a question" its making a bigger deal of something than it should be.
why are

you

expecting shoshin to be perfect?

this is the first marci post ive liked because it echoes a lot of my own reasoning w/r/t how crescent is responding to shoshin

[scamper]

I'm still waiting for Scamper to actually say why he townreads me and Gamma. Feel like I've been waiting on that for a while.

@scamper

okay that wasnt a question and crescent never actually asked me about it before that post so im not sure why he would be waiting on an explanation.....

i liked 42 and 48, they showed some nice thought process that was solvy and seemed to be getting more serious than others, which on page 2 is enough for me to say its a townping

for gamma, this is kind of a weird read, but i didnt think scum would defend someone with "i wanted to play with her", i would expect some measure of comment on her alignment. maybe this is a dumb read but its what i thought at that moment

[scamper]

Do kind of find it interesting though that Ausuka claimed that and then no one really acknowledged it until Marci like 8 posts later or something

why do you think that is interesting?

Btw I like Alex so far
VOTE: Scamper
Rather perturbed by the exact wording of their TR on me

well, now i think ur more town so i dont feel like my original reason was that dumb

what do you like about alex?

[scamper]

So no reason for me NOT to believe Ausuka at this point, but I don't think it's impossible that scum makes that claim.

i dont really think scum claims ascetic miller on page 1, i think if ascetic they just claim ascetic without the miller part, cuz the extra detail is unnecessary to invent. simplest explanation is aus got given an actual weird neg util role and claimed it

ill leave this here for now

VOTE: marci

Hmm we get into WIFOM territory here though. Why would scum say ascetic miller and not just ascetic? Maybe so we can have this conversation. Good lies involve detail and ascetic miller is a way to say "omg guys look at this dumb role I've got, why is this a thing?" Rather than blindly going "I'm ascetic," and everyone has to decide if they believe it or not. Also the conversation is muddied a bit more because we're no longer just going "idk if I believe Ausuka", now we're going "why would this role exist?"
But yeah, I'm just thinking out loud. This early in the game I'm happy to lean more towards accepting that there's an ascetic miller.

i already went over this but i dont think you can handwave things away as "WIFOM", u have to actually look at what is more/less likely and i think a miller claim is way more likely town than not

[scamper]

To elaborate, very unlikely that scum Marci calls town Ausuka's role fake. Equally unlikely that scumteam Ausuka/Marci planned this bit of drama to start the game off (besides the obvious pro-town effect of their play getting us out of RVS, it just seems too much to pull off this quickly with no real scum logic behind the play).

I feel like at least one scum would maybe want to throw shade at that claim? Idk, if I'm scum I'd want to create doubt over town!ausuka's claim

Do agree that it likely isn't staged S/S though.

this feels a little fence sit-y

suspicious of roden because the early townread of shoshin for "solving behind the scenes" seems (1) kinda awkwardly explained, (2) seems like tmi? like, i'm a bit skeptical that he saw two basically naked votes and decided there's some townie solving happening there

Sometimes people say a lot when they say nothing. Shoshin was voting in response to things happening in the game, just because they didn't explain their thought process yet doesn't mean you can't see the gears turning. I town read them exactly because you can tell Shoshin was trying to solve without having to make a show of it.

I think if scum wants to fake a trajectory, they want to make it clear what they're trying to lead to with their reads. Blank votes seem counter-intuitive to that, so unless it's within a player's meta, I think scum tends to avoid doing that.

i dont really agree with this thought at all, i think naked voting in response to things is not a particularly hard way to play as scum and is more likely playstyle-indicative than anything. i dont necessarly have a problem with shoshin but the way you responded to her felt a bit conciliatory

Cool, crescent, Alex and datisi are town. I much prefer Marci's recent posting too. I feel like a scum read on shoshin is a little bit lhf.

@roden, how can you tell it's that, and not the 'throwing poop' that crescent mentioned?

what is "a little bit lhf" supposed to mean?

Cres and Marci are scum together, got it

This reaction in particular town pinged me

that didnt even look serious to me...

[scamper]

ausuka, do you scumread alex?

I think they might still be catching up so I'm going to leave it for a bit until I commit to a push but I don't like their posting so far at all.

I'm pretty well caught up, push away

i kind of like this actually

im not gonna full comment on 164 but thats a townie post from ausuka. i *get* what shes saying on alex although im not sure its really scummy as much as it is writing style, thinking about it, and his response in 171 reads fine to me

[scamper]

not really - my three sorta townreads are you/bella/shoshin

y do u townread bella?

[scamper]

not really - my three sorta townreads are you/bella/shoshin

y do u townread bella?

she townreads me

her vibes feel chill and not overly attention-grabby, she explains what she thinks but not in an over-the-top way, her thoughts make sense to me

thats interesting because i was about to move my vote to her

do you find that you're townread by town more often than scum?

is being chill and not overly attention-grabby a towntell? because if anything i feel like trying to avoid attention is what *scum* want to do and shes been playing on the sidelines and offering some commentary but avoiding getting into the thick of it, none of her analysis has been substantial and she ignored the question i asked her in 62

it felt like she was joining in on the early suspicion of marci by +1'ing roden but not doing too much with it at all and the statement of statement of "having high hopes" of reading roden didnt make sense to me

[scamper]

VOTE: Bellaphant

[scamper]

See multiple people have said it's a playstyle read now and I don't get it.

I think his playstyle is even sort of towny - he comes off as naturally comfortable and somewhat charismatic to me.

I think the content of his posts is more scum motivated than town motivated for reasons I've tried to explain. I think he is more orientated towards creating whatever content than sorting people.

i see what ur saying ig its just hard for me to parse that style and he responded to you in a way that looked unbothered which i associate with being towny

[scamper]

Scamper, what're your thoughts on Crescent's alignment?

leaning scum because her response to you felt overly defensive, still catching up tho

[scamper]

Soshin might just be too chaotic for me

what is "too chaotic" even supposed to mean here...

[scamper]

Scamper, what're your thoughts on Crescent's alignment?

leaning scum because her response to you felt overly defensive, still catching up tho

Second time someone's said I came off as defensive without providing an actual reason why, interesting.

u got called scum by shoshin and accused her of "shitposting", 100 feels very over the top annoyed at someone making an early team guess, i think the way you keep harping on her "avoiding answering the question" feels like trying to trying to string someone up on a triviality - she did answer it. it wasnt a good answer imo but it was an answer and treating it like shes dodging questions is disingenuous. then you accuse her of flinging poop just for making early accusations, like you want to discredit her read by by pointing out shes suspected a lot of people. all in all ypu just seem very upset over one person suggesting you might be scum very early into the game and i dont get why youre so worked up over it...

[scamper]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

[scamper]

Oh and on another Scamper note, I think their interactions with me have been scummier than Marci's by a fair margin. Why is Marci still at 4 again?

How so
I liked their catch-up tbh

Scamper vibes like they're trying to set up voting me later by consistently focusing on only one aspect of me and Shoshin while not directly calling me scum. It feels a lot more calculated than the way Marci had an outburst and moved on.

Oh and post #281.. The one who called it scummy was Shoshin, or course.

i am not "consistently focusing on only one aspect" of you, i said i didnt like the way you reacted to shoshin and explained why. i also said i think you're scummy but i wanted to focus my attention on other people because its more useful pressuring them. if i was, like, convinced ur scum id just vote u.

[scamper]

Phone posting from work so I don't get prodded, only thing worth talking about in the first couple pages is aussie town. Anybody wanna sell me on something while I got time?

why do u need to be sold on something if ur reading? what are ur thoughts on the current wagons...?

[scamper]

Soshin might just be too chaotic for me

what is "too chaotic" even supposed to mean here...

Shoshin grabbed the chaos orb that turns bankers into goats but it's a chaos orb and it doesn't follow its own rules so it turned the lawyers into zebras and if you thought this post was a trip you should read shoshins iso

I'm just not too sure if the chaos is scum indicative or not

why would the chaos be scum indicative?

[scamper]

that question wasnt addressed to you

[scamper]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

I really do think the setup could have a four player town hood just to fuck with the players

Like I'm not saying that's what's happening but I think it's not good to let the hood shape reads too much in a troll setup

@gamma, it'snot about them being the same/anything to do with each other, more the vibe of the game. I think this from aus' explains what I was meaning - I feel this game is going to be weird.

Hi corwin! Are you town now?

@scamper and Alex, can you come chat to me? Ask me some questions or something

"this game is going to be weird" reads like a really half-baked thought process to me

i literally already asked you a question in 62 that you ignored...

do you have any actual scumreads?

[scamper]

Before I fall asleep -

Aussie has a fun laid back vibe that I think scum would be hard pressed to fake, won't vote there today.

Crescent I wanted to push for the lim today, but the more I read the more they came off as just the opposite kind of player to me, which often rubs me the wrong way. Would absolutely still vote there tho, there's at least one part of 209 I don't like.

I like the end of 215 from scamper, but I also think scamper makes a lot of absolute statements about what scum do and don't do and that kind of FACTS and LOGIC approach is real easy for scum to hide behind. Still unwilling to vote there today.

I'm about 100 posts behind and feel asleep typing this so everyone else gets a free pass till tomorrow

why do you scumread alex?

and i dont get why you say you'd still vote crescent if you think they're the type of player that rubs you the wrong way?

[scamper]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

What makes you think that?

i dont think any of the other players in the hood have been scummy and i think save the dragons

probably

doesnt just out the hood like that as scum

relatedly: i dont really like corwinoids entrance at all...

[scamper]

Hi Alex, hi Bella.

Bella 100% town because she's always town.

I'm caught up on the game but I don't have a lot to add right now, I've stayed up late to get the replacement sorted and I'm going to bed.

Hard town reading Crescent this game though.

so ur caught up and ur only reads are that bella and crescent are town?

[scamper]

i dont have time to fully catch up right now, be back later

[scamper]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

I really do think the setup could have a four player town hood just to fuck with the players

Like I'm not saying that's what's happening but I think it's not good to let the hood shape reads too much in a troll setup

i dont think having some slightly unusual roles is an indicator of a "troll setup". even if we assume its randomized alignments its more likely than not theres scum in the hood, and i think "oh it's a troll setup so the hood is all town" is a weird logical leap and not good thinking, b/c if it were that obvious the game just solves itself on day 1

[scamper]

Why did you claim neighborhood, exactly?

We have two 0 posters so far and Lemons is one of them. I suppose they haven't posted there either?

Chaos is a naturally bad thing for town. Sustained chaos is how you end up with trains on 6 different people with 24 hours left in the day, town almost certainly getting voted off, and weak information to go off of that voteoff because there were so many trains.

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

With that I do agree. Revealing hood with a 0 poster inside was odd.

It feels like a semi-careless town play more than a scum play though.

I had asked STD if we should and he just said yeah if activity didn't pick up soon. Pretty much nothing was happening in the hood so I didn't disagree. I don't think we could've utilized it much if we kept it a secret tbh, the only thing about it that matters to me is the mech info. Plus if there's a Traffic Analyst around they won't have to worry about false guilties now.

its less about *your* usage of the hood and more about being able to see how *other* people treat your slots but point taken i guess

[scamper]

- i am not getting much from all the arguing around alex and his vote on bella, i thought the vote was fine (altho i admit i am biased here)

- 403 from crescent feels like shes being very uncharitable here

- i think alex reading into crescent acting in defense of bella in 412 is towny, that kind of trying to draw out unseen connections comes more often from a townie mindset of trying to fit puzzle pieces together

But the Marci train felt kind of off to me. Maybe it's all town, but I felt like if scum were on it, it's probably Bella (as opposed to scamper/datisi/ausuka)?

eh i disagree,
i havent read deeper into my wagon but i think datisis pretty scummy.

maybe ill look at both later but im busy rn so :shrug:

I'd need to look further there. My early read is that Datisi's town, felt like he's scumhunting and trying to sort the game. Probably worth noting how he appeared the instant you called him scummy though almost like that summoned him.

i am not sure where youre getting this though as it feels like hes been pretty passive so far

[scamper]

Happy early birthday freedom

are you ever going to actually play the game?

[scamper]

VOTE: marci

i think ausuka is town for the simple reason i've never seen scum claim miller and i'm running with it until proven otherwise

still think marci is scum and i'll be looking at everyone who is ignoring weighing in on this discussion

Been feeling town on Datisi based largely on posts like these. Second post read as though he's trying to force activity and discussion and prevent people from ignoring the whole Ausuka/Marci thing, which felt pro-town to me.
Gut feeling is also that I don't think scum immediately calls Ausuka's claim town but maybe I'm bad at scum.

Happy to be corrected though

P-edit: l-word brah

my problem is these are posts from the first 3 pages of the game and since then hes done not much at all, and while you could probably say that about half the players in the game i dont particularly find it towny...

[scamper]

i saw but didn't want to comment on shoshin until i was caught up, but *big sigh* at the replace of shoshin, i was p darn sure she was town and page 19 is just very very unpleasant to read

i dont think the way she spitefully 180'ed on a read because of Crescent is something that ever comes from scum here an in general the way she was playing is just completely against what scum does, ever, because she was making enemies of so many people without regard for optics or "consistency"

[scamper]

i wanna soul-townread crescent for pointing out how anti-town shoshin's play is, because this rng roulette of constant naked "reads" is doing wonders for killing my motivation for this game. the fact that crescent noticed it too is probably? +town.

ok i wanna point out this looks like its openly pocketing crescent and trying to take advantage of her to push on shoshin, it just feels completely icky

and i think his reaction to shoshin's comment was kind of a low-key scumclaim

so with that i wanna

VOTE: Datisi

[scamper]

im back to thinking crescent might be stubborn town as well

[scamper]

Wow, that's a lot of words about me.

I'm just really busy this weekend, I'm not all over the thread in a way id like so I am just trying to find town today.

With the 'i buy ausaks's claim', I think it would be easy to infer that I've had a slightly odd role pm - it looks like there a few odd things in this game, so of course I'm going to then be more acceptig of theirs, even more so when backed up by a weird neighbourhood/where the roles aren't defined.

It's super weird how many words there have been about me with very little ...reason? It feels like busy work

i dont get how you get "busy work" out of people suspecting u...

[scamper]

Ok whatever I'll just let the mod deal with the borderline trust tell thing.

Bella posting about her role PM is uh not the play I would have made there but probably +town.

i honestly dont read anything into it

Gamma is probably a wolf

explain, bcuz i dont agree...

[scamper]

it wasnt a comment on alex's alignment just me disagreeing with his reasoning for his read

[scamper]

Gamma, you always misread me for stupid reasons. What are your concerns here?

You’re wishy-washy as fuck here, with no tangible reasons as to why
Also, I don’t take well to this sort of comment. Plus, pretty sure you were scum that I read correctly in A Littls Boonie Told Me

shoshin was far from wishy-washy, i think ur misuing that word, and if u meant that shoshin was rapidly changing stances, i need you to explain why its scum motivated, because i saw it as *far* more likely to be coming from town than not

[scamper]

Crescent's my only real read.

Why is Crescent town?

Because she's not choking the game.

what is this supposed to mean?

[scamper]

i saw but didn't want to comment on shoshin until i was caught up, but *big sigh* at the replace of shoshin, i was p darn sure she was town and page 19 is just very very unpleasant to read

i dont think the way she spitefully 180'ed on a read because of Crescent is something that ever comes from scum here an in general the way she was playing is just completely against what scum does, ever, because she was making enemies of so many people without regard for optics or "consistency"

I don’t feel the same townvibes because I got similar vibes from her that I’ve previously gotten from a different person who

also

tried to whip out that sort of borderline trust tell (and as scum too!) when she was saying I keep reading her wrong

im sorry i think too wrapped up in disliking the play of shoshin to see the motivation behind what she was doing because i think she was acting in a very petty way that is *far* more likely to come from town than scum

[scamper]

The timing on the reveal sucks since a player in it was unconfirmed. But I'm still trying to wrap my head around the purpose of it... does anybody except a hypothetical TA gain info by knowing there's a 'hood? Do those of us in it lose the possibility of gaining info from it being outed? I just don't get how it affects anything (but I don't really understand how they affect the game anyway).

Something feels off about the timing and the VLA. I know it's a holiday and I'm trying not to let a VLA influence me, but it just feels off.

this last line is gross

[scamper]

crescent idk how much you even want to talk about it but i hope u can set aside ur feelings of...distate for shoshins play and read the slot independent of that

if she was still in the game i was going to lecture both of u on empathy but it wouldnt feel right to do it now

[scamper]

Gamma, you always misread me for stupid reasons. What are your concerns here?

You’re wishy-washy as fuck here, with no tangible reasons as to why
Also, I don’t take well to this sort of comment. Plus, pretty sure you were scum that I read correctly in A Littls Boonie Told Me

shoshin was far from wishy-washy, i think ur misuing that word, and if u meant that shoshin was rapidly changing stances, i need you to explain why its scum motivated, because i saw it as *far* more likely to be coming from town than not

It feels like her SR on me was reacting to me voicing suspicion of her

Also, my scum MO is to pick side in situations rather arbitrarily vs. fence sitting, at least in early scenarios. So the accusations of me being scummy for saying one of crescent/shoshin were scum doesn’t track with my actual playstyle. As scum I would have most likely just gone after shoshin from the first moment I thought I wanted to act on that.

i mean it *was* in response to you but but it wa because you were staking out a position she saw as scummy...just because you know yourself to be town it doesnt mean she can perfectly assess that and from an outside perspective the way she was cyling through scumreads and looking for people who might be trying to take advantage of the conflict shows a clear solcing mindset, even as she was pushing on crescent she was trying to get her opinion on things and allow for the possibility she was wrong. as it is ur read to begin with didnt have particularly strong reasoning so i entirely get why she would take issue with it. if u can set aside the personal aspect of feeling slighted because her read on you was wrong, i think u should be able to glean the town motivation there

[scamper]

anyway i caught up and heres where im at rn:

Datisi - scum
Bellaphant - scumlean?
Ausuka - town
Crescent - town?
Alexcellent - townlean
JohnnyFarrar - scumlean
Corwinoid - scumlean
Save The Dragons - nulltown
scamper - radiant lodestar of towniness
Roden - townlean
Freedom - town
marcistar - null
Gamma Emerald - town

[scamper]

ok well then walk me through it

you said that you thought there was one between shoshin/crescent at first - why did you think that was the case?

[scamper]

Their fight didn’t feel like either one was making wholly solid points, it felt like a mud wrestling match how dirty they both felt

does that necessitate one being scum tho? if theyre *both* not making solid points and one is probably town then i dont see why the other cant be. at least thats how messy tvts feels most of the time, like both ppl involved are more concerned with wanting to "win" the argument over making sense. i think a lot of shoshins attacks were kinda rude and personally uncalled for but at the same time they are ones i struggle to see scum making...i didnt like crescent at first but as things wore on i got to see that she was just someone who was playstyle clashing very hard

[scamper]

Wow, that's a lot of words about me.

I'm just really busy this weekend, I'm not all over the thread in a way id like so I am just trying to find town today.

With the 'i buy ausaks's claim', I think it would be easy to infer that I've had a slightly odd role pm - it looks like there a few odd things in this game, so of course I'm going to then be more acceptig of theirs, even more so when backed up by a weird neighbourhood/where the roles aren't defined.

It's super weird how many words there have been about me with very little ...reason? It feels like busy work

@aus, I didn't want to, I assumed people would infer enough and back off and instead people repeatedly didn't read my answer, got pissed with u fy pointing it out and still wouldn't stop a fuss over nothing. Apart from you it's made everyone involved, even crescent, look scummy to me

I mean you still didn't really have to semi-claim that or infer anything in the first place

"Slightly odd role PM" doesn't really indicate alignment, but I thiiiink 519 is more likely to come from annoyed town

thats a fair point i guess, the initial softclaim didnt do a whole lot for me because i didnt really get why town would do it in that spot but her explanation makes sense from a town perspective

[scamper]

i wanna soul-townread crescent for pointing out how anti-town shoshin's play is, because this rng roulette of constant naked "reads" is doing wonders for killing my motivation for this game. the fact that crescent noticed it too is probably? +town.

ok i wanna point out this looks like its openly pocketing crescent and trying to take advantage of her to push on shoshin, it just feels completely icky

and i think his reaction to shoshin's comment was kind of a low-key scumclaim

so with that i wanna

VOTE: Datisi

this post feels kind of ironic, considering that i never voted shoshin, and i literally said i do not think she is scum, so...

i'm open to hearing how my comment there was a "scumclaim", but this post feels like trying to take advantage of the existing datisi push :>

(this caught my eye, i'll try to catch up properly before my shift today)

how am i "trying to take advantage of the existing datisi push" when the primary person doing it is...marcistar, who you think is scum? (and shoshin, but she is no longer a player in this game). i cant be scum taking advantage of other scum...

and at that moment in time, it felt like u were buddying up to try that...your first reaction looked like you were outraged she was trying to clear herself in a dirty manner, and then later you pointed out that shes done it before as scum so it shouldnt be read into...the whole thing felt a little 'angry a potential mislim is slipping away to me'...even though you said you dont think shoshin is scum, that only happened after crescent made it claer she had no interest in pushing shoshin anymore...

[scamper]

relatedly: i dont really like corwinoids entrance at all...

Ooh, why not? Is it cause it's plsin white bread w/ no butter? Cuz that's what it makes me think of

its cuz for having multiple pages of content, there were no real takes, nothing useful at all, and i find it hard to believe anyone reading the game up to that point could have absolutely *no* opinion on anything that had happened up to that point...

[scamper]

i actually dont *hate* jfs catchup now that hes posting actual content which means im probably townreading too many people

[scamper]

hood reveal is interesting, i dont have a problem with std outing it since theres probably scum in a 4 person hood but i kind of wish he'd waited a bit longer so that we could have reads from people on the players in the hood + lemons could have posted

cuz right now my immediate thought is the lemons slot is probably scum but we learn basically nothing from it now if thats true

I really do think the setup could have a four player town hood just to fuck with the players

Like I'm not saying that's what's happening but I think it's not good to let the hood shape reads too much in a troll setup

i dont think having some slightly unusual roles is an indicator of a "troll setup". even if we assume its randomized alignments its more likely than not theres scum in the hood, and i think "oh it's a troll setup so the hood is all town" is a weird logical leap and not good thinking, b/c if it were that obvious the game just solves itself on day 1

I mean it's not a logical leap, did you read my second paragraph? I'm saying making conclusions about the amount of scum in the hood feels silly to me because anything is possible in a setup with Ascetic Millers lmao

sorry, my bad on misunderstanding what you meant there. i still dont like the idea of just going "setup is a troll so all basic assumptions about balance go out the window"

[scamper]

@shoshin, we don't use the l-word on this site anymore, and i haven't gotten to this game yet. i don't lurk to "avoid posting content" or whatever else because i am more than good enough at scum to know what to post.

This is one if the reasons I town read Datisi. Not because of the self-meta here but because I've seen scum!Datisi a couple times now and this isn't it. If you don't have much of an opinion on him then he's very likely town; he's generally high activity as scum and working hard to make people want to keep him around and empathize with him.

I mean I don't disagree that Datisi is capable of being much townier than this as scum but I also think he's capable of doing more as town? And probably just hasn't gotten into the game regardless of alignment.

- i think alex reading into crescent acting in defense of bella in 412 is towny, that kind of trying to draw out unseen connections comes more often from a townie mindset of trying to fit puzzle pieces together

I mean maybe I'm biased/tunneled at this point but don't you think it kind of sounds like a BS read? There was no indication at all that Crescent was worried about Bella being eliminated by calling out Alex's post as overly hedgy and it kind of just didn't feel like a genuine thought. Idk

eh not really, i see plenty of times where townies pull out these crazy sounding reads because they get too deep in their own worldbuilding and start imagining things that arent there. i think "i am scumreading this person and now someone else is attacking me for my read of them, i wonder if they are teamed" is a thought that easily crosses most peoples minds even if its rarely accurate. it struck me as kind of an outlandish thought but not really an implausible one at all, if that makes sense.

[scamper]

Ok whatever I'll just let the mod deal with the borderline trust tell thing.

Bella posting about her role PM is uh not the play I would have made there but probably +town.

i honestly dont read anything into it

Gamma is probably a wolf

explain, bcuz i dont agree...

Scum are less likely to want to soft on day 1 because it restricts their options later - for example if this is a high power setup scum probably want to be claiming VT - and she comes across as genuine to me.

Gamma is probably a wolf because I've never understood why people were townreading him and tbh I think his push on Shoshin was terrible. I really didn't like the post saying Crescent and Shoshin both looked bad, since I got the opposite vibes and since iirc both were under suspicion at the time it would be an extremely convenient position for scum to take, encouraging a TvT fuelled by a massive playstyle difference while being able to pivot into pushing either if one of them townspewed.

Also his posts just kind of feel wolfy imo but I know that's not super convincing.

well heres my thouhts on her:

- reaction to my early townread on her felt townie in terms of how she reacted to it, not just doubting it but questioning my reasoning for it. shows an interest in interrogating thought process rather than simly reacting to the read (relatedly: this is sort of what i dislike about how datisi responded to bella TRing him)

- while i agree that going "there's probably scum btwn cres/shos" was not great, i think the way she explained why she thought that was plausible and the way she approached handling the argument felt like it was a *real read*, there was a little bit questioning toward them but she didnt actually jump in to push either of them until shoshin went after her in a way she thought was scummy

- she doesnt really feel wolfy to me at all, she just kind of feels like shes been freeflowing with her thoughts and all over the place talking about whatever catches her eye

I don't think this is especially likely to be scum Freedom doing a fake read I just continue to be baffled by townreads on STD I guess

eh idk, i might be giving too much credit just for claiming the hood but i still think corwinoid is significantly worse than him...

[scamper]

anyway i caught up and heres where im at rn:

Datisi - scum
Bellaphant - scumlean?
Ausuka - town
Crescent - town?
Alexcellent - townlean
JohnnyFarrar - scumlean
Corwinoid - scumlean
Save The Dragons - nulltown
scamper - radiant lodestar of towniness
Roden - townlean
Freedom - town
marcistar - null
Gamma Emerald - town

Hard disagree on Alex and Bella, tho I don't really have any questions.

Where does the Roden and Gamma reads come from?

i just explained the gamma read but roden is a gut read atp, seems comfortable in the thread and has decent solvey posts

[scamper]

how am i "trying to take advantage of the existing datisi push" when the primary person doing it is...marcistar, who you think is scum? (and shoshin, but she is no longer a player in this game). i cant be scum taking advantage of other scum...

and at that moment in time, it felt like u were buddying up to try that...your first reaction looked like you were outraged she was trying to clear herself in a dirty manner, and then later you pointed out that shes done it before as scum so it shouldnt be read into...the whole thing felt a little 'angry a potential mislim is slipping away to me'...even though you said you dont think shoshin is scum, that only happened after crescent made it claer she had no interest in pushing shoshin anymore...

i don't solve for teams on day 1. i don't think it's likely you two are scum together. if she's town, then your push on me feels much worse.

shoshin is gone sure, but that looked like you were trying to get some momentum going there before her replacement got in and did who knows what.

yeah, i was extremely mad she was trying to imply whatever it was that she was trying to imply. i knew it doesn't make her town. you know why i was mad? because i find that type of play disgusting and i think it ruins games.

you can say "well you only said shoshin is town after---" but at that point it's making the facts fit your narrative, not the other way around. if i had wanted to push shoshin for her play, i would have. i'd have voted her immediately. it'd have been obvious i think she's scum. i didn't think so.

ok you can say youre not solving for a team, but i still expect some level of consistency and right now it feels like you just want to call everyone who suspects you sum regardless of whether it actually makes sense to think that

how could i *possibly* get momentum going when my posts were made *after* the replacement came in? shoshn was already gone, the push died with her, it was already apparent that most people werent convinced by what shoshin was arguing so i have no idea what "momentum" you ere perceiving

i probably shouldnt be getting too into those posts, i agree they were gross but i still think its more likely scum would have a kneejerk hate response to it. thats going to be the last i say about it.

i mean if anything it feels like youre trying to build a narrative here around me voting you by saying stuff like how i was trying to take advantage of some nonexistent momentum against you, i still think the way you spoke to crescent was icky regardless of whatever you say your intentions toward shoshin were or weren't

[scamper]

my problem is these are posts from the first 3 pages of the game and since then hes done not much at all, and while you could probably say that about half the players in the game i dont particularly find it towny...

this post is sidestepping what alex is calling me town for, and going "well datisi has also not done anything since then. yes i know a lot of people haven't either. but it's not townie for datisi!!!" the post seems like it is supposed to address why alex's reasons for thinking i'm town aren't valid, but the only thing this actually says is "it was a while ago", which i'm sure alex is aware of

i commented on 556 already but it is a lol post

oh, i just had a thought and if that thought was correct, then i think scamper's scumpoints go up tenfold

i do wanna have a chat with you when you're here, though

i mean teh thing is it was a handful of rvs-ish posts which fine but not super-townie imo, and since then i hadnt much liked anything youd posted at all...

as for the rest: hi!

[scamper]

i think ur not trying to solve
it just feels like ur playing a game of follow the leader where asukas the leader.

here is where you're making out to be ai lmfao

marcistar is obvious scum and i don't know why it is so difficult for others to see

i dont get why the quoted post makes her "obvious scum"...

[scamper]

Marci, don't take this the wrong way but do you actually believe in the argument you're making here?

what was the point of this question supposed to be, exactly

[scamper]

no coherent thought process

just blatant mindless arguing like she did in micro 1056 that ended this morning

work so i gotta go for now but vote marci k thx

im reading the game now and i kind of get what youre saying but i actually feel like she had more analysis (or faked analysis, w/e), in her posts there than here and now i dont know what to think...

[scamper]

Marci, don't take this the wrong way but do you actually believe in the argument you're making here?

what was the point of this question supposed to be, exactly

My next posts explain that actually.

Marci, don't take this the wrong way but do you actually believe in the argument you're making here?

omg why r u calling me an idiot

I'm not, but the only possibilities I see here are that you either actually believe the argument you're making, or you're just trying to justify a statement you made that you didn't think would receive this much scrutiny and didn't think it through initially.

TBH I DONT WVEN KNOW WHAT ARGUMENT IM MAKING HERE IM ARGUING JUST TO ARGUE

all i know is i think datisisisisis scum

Ok yeah that's kinda what I was getting at

my point is im not surw what you were expecting to get out a question asking "do you actually believe your argument", b/c its not like anyone is going to admit they dont believe what they are arguing. so, like, is this helping you sort marci in some way cuz i dont get it

[scamper]

VOTE: marcistar

[scamper]

literally everytime i open the game its "marci did x" "marci marci" yall r obsessed

i dont think this is true, and even if it was, why is your only response to it to complain about it?

[scamper]

Spoiler:

how am i "trying to take advantage of the existing datisi push" when the primary person doing it is...marcistar, who you think is scum? (and shoshin, but she is no longer a player in this game). i cant be scum taking advantage of other scum...

and at that moment in time, it felt like u were buddying up to try that...your first reaction looked like you were outraged she was trying to clear herself in a dirty manner, and then later you pointed out that shes done it before as scum so it shouldnt be read into...the whole thing felt a little 'angry a potential mislim is slipping away to me'...even though you said you dont think shoshin is scum, that only happened after crescent made it claer she had no interest in pushing shoshin anymore...

i don't solve for teams on day 1. i don't think it's likely you two are scum together. if she's town, then your push on me feels much worse.

shoshin is gone sure, but that looked like you were trying to get some momentum going there before her replacement got in and did who knows what.

yeah, i was extremely mad she was trying to imply whatever it was that she was trying to imply. i knew it doesn't make her town. you know why i was mad? because i find that type of play disgusting and i think it ruins games.

you can say "well you only said shoshin is town after---" but at that point it's making the facts fit your narrative, not the other way around. if i had wanted to push shoshin for her play, i would have. i'd have voted her immediately. it'd have been obvious i think she's scum. i didn't think so.

ok you can say youre not solving for a team, but i still expect some level of consistency and right now it feels like you just want to call everyone who suspects you sum regardless of whether it actually makes sense to think that

how could i *possibly* get momentum going when my posts were made *after* the replacement came in? shoshn was already gone, the push died with her, it was already apparent that most people werent convinced by what shoshin was arguing so i have no idea what "momentum" you ere perceiving

i probably shouldnt be getting too into those posts, i agree they were gross but i still think its more likely scum would have a kneejerk hate response to it. thats going to be the last i say about it.

i mean if anything it feels like youre trying to build a narrative here around me voting you by saying stuff like how i was trying to take advantage of some nonexistent momentum against you, i still think the way you spoke to crescent was icky regardless of whatever you say your intentions toward shoshin were or weren't

So much of this post feels like scum trying to manufacture anger/frustration, and the naked vote on marci is hella convenient.

none of that post is angry/frustrated and i have no idea why you say it looks that way

and my vote against marci wasnt "convenient", it was in direct response to marci popping in and doing nothing but complaining about being talked about

[scamper]

i opened the iso

i saw actual solving

just bcuz u dont agree with me doesnt mean im not trying to solve

i was trying up until a certain point

okay but why did you stop, what are you doing right now, how are you approaching this game

do u have thoughts beyond datisi being scum or not?

[scamper]

can you just answer the question instead of joking around? i dont feel like this stuff is unreasonable to ask about and i dont get why youre refusing to explain yourself at all

[scamper]

re 715 -- that's just not how i play. i saw you making posts towards me that were smelling bad, and you voting me. i remembered that this happened after there were a few votes on me already. "scum taking advantage of votes being on me? let's test it" is as far as i thought. i'm not gonna think "wait, but xyz are already voting me, and i am abc% sure there's scum there, which mean that therefore def% less likely--" no. that is most of the time counterproductive because i generally fall flat on my ass whenever i try to get a team going on d1.

"push dying with shoshin" is something i disagree with (partly because she wasn't doing a good job of it lmao, partly because it wouldn't have been difficult to carry it on)

i mean, you say you agree they were gross. allegedly you're town. so obviously you can see how a townie can hate those posts, no?

nah, i'm trying to figure out what you were trying to do because your vote against me was very bad. and ok, then we're back to "but you were pocketing crescent!!" which like yes i was, good job. think for a bit what a town-motivated reason for trying to make someone think i'm town is.

im not sure were going to get much more out of this, i did vote you because i thought the way you were playing was scummy, you are obviously not going to agree with that, you can say you hated the fact i voted you but i dont have much to say in response to this, and atp it feels like we're going in circles so going to focus my attention elsewhere

[scamper]

okay but why did you stop, what are you doing right now, how are you approaching this game

do u have thoughts beyond datisi being scum or not?

i stopped because i had work...

right now im trying to go afk cuz thats the vibes, but then yall keep making convo about me so obv im gonna join in??

my approach this game is to just say what im thinking when im thinking. i think ive done enough of that early on.
now that the game is kicked off, my intention is to go afk (which work partly helps with). the reason i want to go afk is because i dont trust my opinions when im a loud voice in the town. so i sort of want to fade out, let someone else take spotlights and then read it all after and see if i have any better conclusions then. possibly gonna mess around and hard defend someone depending on how my read on said person is.

i could prob have other thoughts but datisi loves the attention, i know deep down he does...

okay so like, how do u approach the game as town? basically wait for someone else to take the lead and form your opinions based on what they say?

can you just answer the question instead of joking around? i dont feel like this stuff is unreasonable to ask about and i dont get why youre refusing to explain yourself at all

ACTS LIKE I COULDNT HAVE BEEN TYPING...

how was i supposed to know u were writing a longer response rather than just trolling?

[scamper]

it's almost as if marci's posts are not made in good faith and she's posting nonsense just for the sake of it.

u really should learn to stop tunneling < 3

relatedly: what is ur read on datisi right now?

[scamper]

Corwin feels like he refuses to take a stance on anything at all aside from hard calling me town for ???? reasons. All I can say about that playerslot so far is "it exists".

I gave my reason. Your style of high volume posting doesn't happen to be shitting up the game. And it looks like you're actually trying to solve.

i dont get how "not shitting up the game" merits a townread, and "actually trying to solve the game is very vague - what gives you that feeling?

[scamper]

My content BARELY sucks

case and point

You mean 'case in point'?
Also, why do you think that Datisi could be trying to push a mislim on marci?
I see no reason why scum wants to do that D1.
It's much more beneficial for scum!Datisi to do that during ELO.

by that same logic why would scum push any mislim on day 1, though...

[scamper]

Freedom's post is so awkward and bad that I actually don't find it scummy because so much is wrong with it. Like...

Why wouldn't scum try to get town voted off day 1?

Why on Earth is ELO coming into a conversation on day 1?

i dont think its scummy no, its just bizarre logic

[scamper]

johnny - posted pretty much nothing content kind of sucks

corwinoid - in the hood hasn't done much yet

datisi - i think the push on marci could be scum trying to mislim a town

freedom - in the hood, for the sins of shoshin

this is the closest thing he has to hunting and like maybe I can write an actual post on it tomorrow but it's 3am right now, this just feels wolfy af

I mean STD has a fairly similar playstyle as town but I feel like in our last game together he was significantly better than this?

Does no one else see it

im not whelmed by it but im assuming hell have more to say when hes not on v/la

[scamper]

oh maybe datisis town actually im so confused

so were u not reading him as town when u accused him of tunneling in 752? (this is why i was asking you about your read of him earlier...)

[scamper]

further: what made you say he might actually be town?

[scamper]

Alex

explain your scumread on alex?

[scamper]

whoops idk how that quote got messed up

[scamper]

Alex

explain your scumread on alex?

It's exactly the opposite of my read on Crescent. Alex reads unnatural and stilted. They sheeped you onto Bella and sheeped Aussie onto Marci and I don't like either of those votes

unnatural and stilted how? and why do you dislike the marci vote?

[scamper]

okay i just wanna note ive repeatedly asked marci to clarify her read on datisi and shes again posted while completely ignoring me

[scamper]

okay i just wanna note ive repeatedly asked marci to clarify her read on datisi and shes again posted while completely ignoring me

ok and?

to start with, in 752 you accuse himof tunneling, and that way that post is written it implies datisi is town pushing on you rather than scum (because why would someone tell scum they need to stop tunneling)

but when i asked you about this at that moment in time, you ignored that post because i wasnt sure if you were scumreading him or not

then later you say "hm maybe he is town" in 846. notably, this comes right after 835 where he shows how you acted exactly like this in another game as scum

to me, it looked like you reversed tactics immediately because he called out what you were doing and realized you couldnt keep getting way with it. this was why i asked you what changed your read, because it looks like youre just saying things to try to get people to move off you

the fact that i cant get you to commit to a straight answer to some very simple questions makes it feel like you dont actually have an answer, and im struggling to see how the stuff you are saying comes from a legitimate thought process

[scamper]

i should also add that i dont really care about her quoting her posts to go "see! not all my posts are useless!" because it feels very pedantic like shes trying to prove a very nitpicky point, when she is choosing to respond to that and not me asking her to explain *why* she thinks what she thinks

in my experience thats a common thing where scum will say stuff but not really have a deeper reasoning behind it because theyre just making things up, its a lot easier for town to elaborate on their thinking in a way that is natural and free-flow-y, other people when ive questioned them hav responded a lot more easily and marci just feels like shes taking a pop quiz she didnt study for

[scamper]

to me, it looked like you reversed tactics immediately because he called out what you were doing and realized you couldnt keep getting way with it. this was why i asked you what changed your read, because it looks like youre just saying things to try to get people to move off you

i dont think scums gonna use meta on something they know will be a miselim, its too much work just to act like a clown

is there a reason it took me 3 tries to get you to explain this?

i should also add that i dont really care about her quoting her posts to go "see! not all my posts are useless!" because it feels very pedantic like shes trying to prove a very nitpicky point, when she is choosing to respond to that and not me asking her to explain *why* she thinks what she thinks

in my experience thats a common thing where scum will say stuff but not really have a deeper reasoning behind it because theyre just making things up, its a lot easier for town to elaborate on their thinking in a way that is natural and free-flow-y, other people when ive questioned them hav responded a lot more easily and marci just feels like shes taking a pop quiz she didnt study for

i honestly dont remember asking for this opinion??

i dont get what you mean by this, sorry

[scamper]

okay i was waiting to see if corwinoid would respond and now that hes caught up i want to note that he completely blew off 769 and hasnt justified why he claimed i sounded "angry/frustrated" in that post. what IS frustrating to me is getting ignored and i feel like it keeps happening this game.

i also want to note that corwinoids catchup was super dry and consistedmostly of him commenting on/replying to things and has one actual stance, which is that marci "felt super off the cuff and not artificial at all". thats the only justification he has for a read, and similar to his read on me, its all talk of 'feelings' an nothing more, just vague assertions, the kind of thing where its super easy to say stuff about people because you can say any post

feels

a certain way, but i dont get the sense corwinoid has any deeper thoughts about the game

and i want to remind you that corwinoid led off the game with this:

Hi Alex, hi Bella.

Bella 100% town because she's always town.

I'm caught up on the game but I don't have a lot to add right now, I've stayed up late to get the replacement sorted and I'm going to bed.

Hard town reading Crescent this game though.

so ur caught up and ur only reads are that bella and crescent are town?

Crescent's my only real read. Bella's just always town.

And yeah, when I replace in there's a honeymoon period were I don't really have reads until I start interacting with people and get an actual feel for them.

corwinoid has 27 posts now. he has made barely any attempts to interact with people in a meaningful way. a bunch of his posts jus now were complaining about having to catch up, but in tat time he was catching up he produced almost nothing of note - no observations, no reads, hardly any questions even

so i have to ask - if he gets his reads via interaction, why is he making virtually no attempt to realtime with people or interact in a substantive manner? where is the evidence corwinoid is thinking about the game at all, trying to form some meaninful picture of it? i can't see any.

what he *has* produced are self-aware posts like this:

He never makes an argument against either, but what's in his ISO concerning Corwin is glaring. He highlights Corwin three separate times.

I mean, TBF I've been low activity so far since I replaced and on the defensive since the VLA comment. I don't think Alex is entirely out of line here. OTOH my D1 play seems to be consistently crap so I'm kind of getting use to it at this point.

yall im sorry ill stop talking if it makes things easier

No, it's fine really. Some of my personal frustration with Crescent boiling over. I'd rather have people more active than not, it's just frustrating when that activity is mostly overnight for me and then I get shit on for not being immediately caught up.

and i feel like posts like these are notable because theyre very self-aware, theyre talking about how hes struggling, promising to get into the game, but now, itll be later

and i think this type of posting comes from scum more often than not because scum tend to be very self-conscious about their own scumminess, and its notable that corwinoid is doing all this stuff instaed of just...making actual reads, which i would expect from a town


and i was curious so i went and did some research and looked at corwinoids recent newbie game as scum, and i found these posts:

Spoiler:

So I usually don't like giving blanket reads on everyone, I don't think it's as useful as some people think, and usually just fluff. Since I'm replacing in I'll post my first thoughts on everyone after the hockey game. Somnus though feels pretty obvtown to me, and I'm not sure why anybody is voting him right now (If my internal count is right, I could be off with the recent stuff between getting the replacement set up and actually getting in the thread)

I'm through about the first 12 pages of my re-read, but I have a sleeping disorder where I won't get much sleep for a few nights/weeks and then crash pretty hard and oversleep, and right now I'm recovering from the oversleeping thing so I need to get some rest. I've said all I have to say for right now, and I'll hit this with fresh eyes in a few hours.

and we haven't even heard from one player.

I'm trying, I swear, it's not easy especially with one particular player just shit posting and quoting the exact things other people have said muddying things up and making it harder to wade through, follow context, and put it together with isos minus the crap.

So far I have solid TRs on Somnus and you, despite the low post count I've appreciated the quality. I don't know how to read Bella, but she doesn't seem scummy. I'm unsure on Rad, WD, and Spartan. Slight scum vibe from BBT. I just want Vasex gone; I think he's been completely anti-town and disruptive and it's really hard to think we're just not better off without him--I might be tunneling, but it's genuinely making it harder to read everyone else.

and these feel exactly like the posts hes making this game, where he keeps making excuses for being behind rather than playing the game, and complaining about how spam is making it hard for him to catch up. i think what hes doing here is more or less identical to that game

[scamper]

i want it on the record i still think marci is scummy but right now i want to do this

VOTE: corwinoid

[scamper]

Oh holy shit, you can actually post more than one sentence at a time.

and these feel exactly like the posts hes making this game, where he keeps making excuses for being behind rather than playing the game, and complaining about how spam is making it hard for him to catch up. i think what hes doing here is more or less identical to that game

If the summation of your argument is new player replacing into games plays cautiously day 1 and you're going to selectively pick the completed game for that, my response is just going to be 'fuck off.' I'll wade through the first half of that after I smoke.

i just wanna note its super oironic u accused me of "faking anger/frustration" cuz this is EXACTLY what that looks like to me

[scamper]

further: its not selective, you have 1 completed game that is not 5+ years old so of course i referenced that

i did take a look at one of your older town games and im not sure how good of a reference it is given the time difference between games, but there were a lot more efforts to actually interact with and qusetion people in a meaningful way even if you started slow, and im not seeing that here, at all

[scamper]

further: its not selective, you have 1 completed game that is not 5+ years old so of course i referenced that

i did take a look at one of your older town games and im not sure how good of a reference it is given the time difference between games, but there were a lot more efforts to actually interact with and qusetion people in a meaningful way even if you started slow, and im not seeing that here, at all

I've changed as a person in the last 5 years, and that last game had an affect on how I feel about the game/site in general and how I want to approach the game, so yes you should disregard those.

okay, so then im not really being selective in comparing this game to your other one, am i?

i just wanna note its super oironic u accused me of "faking anger/frustration" cuz this is EXACTLY what that looks like to me

okay i was waiting to see if corwinoid would respond and now that hes caught up i want to note that he completely blew off 769 and hasnt justified why he claimed i sounded "angry/frustrated" in that post. what IS frustrating to me is getting ignored and i feel like it keeps happening this game.

I missed 769, which is an effect of waking up to ~10 new pages. Let me restate what I said in 761 though: That

is

scum manufacturing, and so is this. My vote isn't misplaced.

What's ironic is that you both read that newbie game, and have complete context for my introduction which came *500 posts* into this game, after two days, but your entire reaction here is essentially an OMGUS to me pointing out your crap scum play in a particular post and claiming I don't have any actual reads or meaningful interactions, when I exactly mean your slot is scum. And then to try and attack my activity after I've been asleep and you've been on e of the people fluffing the thread and when I'm exactly responding to people in real time, and active in the thread, right this minute is a blatant lie (and I've been talking to STD in the hood this morning also).

Also, I fucking hate people who put this much stock into meta. Especially based off one game. Some pretend tryharding and cherry picking so you can make any case you want.

this is WAY over the top and emotional in response to my posts, and it avoids actually making a coherent rebuttal to what i am saying, relying a lot on emotion/anger instead, ironically ("your crap scum play", "fucking hate people who put this much stock into meta"). you say youre ative and interacting with people, but what are you doing exactly? how are the things youre asking about supposed to help solve the game at all?

you say you "missed" the post i made, but to me that suggests you havent been reading the thread carefully and are just skimming, which is again scummy because scum dont really care about the finer details or actually investigating whats being said, youre just skimming to appear current. and youre accusing me of "fluffing up the thread" but almost everything i post is game related content, which shows me youre not really paying attention to what i say at all

[scamper]

i do have other stuff i want to catch up still on so plz be careful not to have any accidental hammers

[scamper]

i wanna ignore datisi so much but last time someone did a bs push on me based on meta they turned out to be scum :rosejudge:

so maybe ill just ignore him, hes the clown anyways

didnt u say yesterday u didnt think scum would bother meta casing you......

[scamper]

i should probably read the page fully before posting

anyway i need to catch up on stuff

[scamper]

whys everyone even so happy with locktowning scamper

do u think im scum?

[scamper]

@datisi, can you give me the tl;dr for your change in read on marci? You seemed pretty deadset that she's obvscum a few pages ago.

there is no change, i still think she's a scumfuck

i just thought the corwin wagon could be good for the game since he was kinda scummy to me (and i don't like sitting on one wagon if it's going nowhere, and the marci wagon felt like that) and now i scumread corwin even more than before and people are actually interested here so here i am

make no mistake, i still want to murder marci if that's whta you're wondering, as evident by me pointing out more reasons why i think she's scum this morning

i didn't post this >.>

[scamper]

Probs been pointed out already, but kind of weird to me that Marci has been saying she's up for a Corwin wagon for a fair bit: 670 855 and 863 all imply a scum read and willingness to launch him but now there's a wagon on him and she isn't joining it.
Also worth noting Corwin seems averse to a Marci wagon.

cuz its going too fast imo

i dont get how you have a scumread for most of the day, see them do something scummy and get voted for it, and then are afraid to vote them...

[scamper]

quick comments on stuff from yesterday morning:

- i'm getting good vibes from ausuka in terms of thread presence, solving, e t c. 830 is a good post and i dont think scum would bother to do that type of research

- kind of sketched about alex's vote hop in 832

- i am starting to feel better about datisi as of 836 and his approach to marci is also townie, feel like i may have been a bit tunneled on him

- roden's posts feel a little bit hollow to me as of p. 35-36 although he's probably not scum with corwin

- johnny's reasoning for the alex scumread in 921 at least makes sense to me and highlighting alex's trajectory on marci is a good catch

- similarly i get not great vibes from std's 923, and 939 is frustrating cuz none of us can see whats going on in the hood so im not sure what the use of sayng that is

- i still feel like i have too many townreads

[scamper]

Corwin mentioned in the hood that they're separating themself from the game for a bit, partially because of Crescent but also because IRL stuff happened apparently.

They're also accusing Crescent of playing the complete opposite as she did when she was town in the Mini that got brought up. So uh, basically a "no u" argument.

i missed this in the flurry of when it was posted but...

why is he saying this stuff in the hood, and not in the main thread?

[scamper]

i am looking at 2273 now and noticing corwin was more forthcoming with his thoughts in that game and his reads had some semblance of actual depth to them, it wasnt just stuff like "these posts feel good" or "this feels like manufactured anger", the stuff he says seems to actually make sense

and now im remembering he originally attacked me because i was voting marci...

[scamper]

i kind of am seeing a similar abrasiveness in response to pressure though, so idk

[scamper]

thoughts through page 44:

- i'm p sure crescent is just town now based on outing the stuff in regard to corwin and the level of solving she's getting into right now, just a lot of good thoughts

- i don't like JF's defense of corwin in 1058, feels like hes dodging making substantive commentary

- i'm actually not getting why people are starting to townread gamma, it feels like shes been mostly going with the flow aside from defending marci and i'm slightly sus of her. i don't think she and marci are s/s but my tr there has been weakening

[scamper]

goodjob datisi!! wanting to laugh is totally a scum motivation!!

just again want to note, i *really* dislike posts such as this

[scamper]

thoughts through page 44:

- i'm p sure crescent is just town now based on outing the stuff in regard to corwin and the level of solving she's getting into right now, just a lot of good thoughts

- i don't like JF's defense of corwin in 1058, feels like hes dodging making substantive commentary

- i'm actually not getting why people are starting to townread gamma, it feels like shes been mostly going with the flow aside from defending marci and i'm slightly sus of her. i don't think she and marci are s/s but my tr there has been weakening

This is honestly fair re: me
Btw I am kinda in a cooldown state after kinda going radioactive for a while so if anyone has a question or comment they’d like to bring to me but feel intimidated by me to do so normally now would probably be a good time to do so
I won’t take well to someone trying to present again a point they’ve already presented to me tho

who do you suspect besides corwin right now? your reads have felt wishy-washy this game

[scamper]

just woke up, real quick in case i die: crescent, ausuka, freedom are probably my most confident TRs, datisi would be next after that i guess

[scamper]

oops i should have checked to see who was already voting >.>


i think the fact he's gone this long without posting means hes in antispew, hes probably not coming back

[scamper]

<.<

[scamper]

intent to hammer

This is clearly happening so we might as well speed things up in case we want to decide on another wagon with comfortable time

I also intend to hammer.

At this point I'm mainly just waiting for Corwin to show up and respond to posts.

JK

I don't have the energy to go through everything in the last 10 pages post by post to rebut it, and I know that's shitty. The big point I guess is that I blew up at scamper because I was arguing with my wife at the same time; I've been out while we discuss separating--I wasn't expecting it.

ugh i'm so sorry ):

i feel bad now, idk what i want to do here

[scamper]

i'm going to unvote just to make sure there's sudden hammers at least

UNVOTE:

[scamper]

*there's NO sudden hammers EBWOP

[scamper]

intent to hammer

This is clearly happening so we might as well speed things up in case we want to decide on another wagon with comfortable time

I also intend to hammer.

At this point I'm mainly just waiting for Corwin to show up and respond to posts.

JK

I don't have the energy to go through everything in the last 10 pages post by post to rebut it, and I know that's shitty. The big point I guess is that I blew up at scamper because I was arguing with my wife at the same time; I've been out while we discuss separating--I wasn't expecting it.

ugh i'm so sorry ):

i feel bad now, idk what i want to do here

We stay the course because the like 5 other reasons to think he's scum still hold.

I'm specifically holding out more to get posts out of our missing people than anything.

i guess, i just feel nervous because suddenly everyone seemed okay with it and there's no cw

[scamper]

maybe i'm just bad with ate ugh >.>

[scamper]

It's still Crescent Corwin and johnnycakes

i put a 0% chance crescent is scum with them

[scamper]

You know what, this may be controversial but I'm actually inclined to town just leave corwin for today. He did mention some rl shit in the newbie and like....if he's scum, we don't need to sort it today.

I'm soft, though.

who would you vote instead of corwin then?

[scamper]

nah bella scumclaimed
I caught a grammatical error that indicates she backtracked on calling Corwin town and instead opted to just say she was leaving him alone for today

i'm not really sure i see it but this is a towny post

[scamper]

Corwin is one of the only people in the game Marci has actually made a case against for being scum. She has in no way indicated she now thinks he's town, yet she's offering herself to be voted off anyway? It's blatant not playing to win as town as a grand but empty gesture as scum that tries to give off a vibe of self-sacrifice.

in my pov its not against win con for a vt to offer themselves up instead of someone who claims a pr

but also i kinda lowkey forgot corwin was a neighbor

what does him being a neighbor have to do with anything? i dont get it

[scamper]

Alright caught up. More inclined to vote Corwin than Marci here, but would still rather Alex.

I don't think we should end day until we hear back from Scamper and Penguin tho

Hopping in the shower now, ask me questions if you want

who is penguin, and what do you actually want to hear from me?

[scamper]

who is penguin

he meant Bella

^

what do you actually want to hear from me?

I don't understand your position now. You unvoted and I never saw anything after that

idk, i'm still trying to decide what i want to do but i want to give corwin a chance to actually respond

[scamper]

ok so

- i think the rest of the hood is probably town

- while i realize we cant give credit for having pushed corwin since he flipped traitor, i still think crescent is very town

- i think ausuka, gamma. and datisi are all probable town on play

- my poe rn is just johnny/marci/alex/bella

[scamper]

VOTE: JF

[scamper]

I do feel better about the remaining neighbours and feel like reasonable odds of Freedom and STD both being town. I'm not super familiar with neighbourhoods but having more than 1 scum in that neighbourhood feels like it could be not super balanced?

Also like Scamper a lot as town. Don't think Corwin acts the way he did to Scamper if Scamper is scum. And Scamps also had a really decent and sound case on Corwin, and I feel like scum would be a bit more cautious given they could be unknowingly pressuring their own partner?

Feeling like scum is probably somewhere in Bella/Cres/Johnny/Marci.

while i dont think its impossible to have a traitor and groupscum in the same hood i think bth STD and shoshinslot are likely town on play and wouldnt be looking into them at all

I don't know how to read Corwin avoiding Marci's wagon. Maybs scum avoiding being on a town wagon or maybs they're scum together but Marci didn't know it.

this...isnt really saying anything at all

[scamper]

The thing I have is I don't like Alex in a team with Marci or Johnny in it, hence expanding the POE. I think JF is probably town with an Alex scumflip, and Alex's really bad late shade on Marci felt like an attempt to put pressure on her after Corwin got voted. Alex probably figured out by then that Corwin was traitor, and was trying to stir the pot against Marci. His actions towards her yesterday in general just don't feel like scum/scum.

explain what you mean with the alex stuff?

[scamper]

i also dont really think bella "consistently" pointed out corwin was the same as the recent scum game, she basically stayed away from his wagon and hedged on it until he broke down and the elim seemed inevitable, made one mention he was the same as their scumgame and then thought about not voting him after the claim, i dont clear her on that basis at all

[scamper]

i agree JF/alex are not a likely team, just had liked JFs day 1 a lot less. will take a look at your stuff about alex

[scamper]

i reread alexs progression on maerci, and while the sudden reversal from townreading her to jumping on her is a bit odd, im not sure it couldnt come from town, and im not sure why the assumption is he might have figured out corwin was traitor but JF passively defending corwin cant have been for similar reasons...

[scamper]

ok ig

im gonna go catch up on the stuff from daystart i missed

[scamper]

its not okay im so embarassed that i didnt read..

akneeways idk who scum is lol

im not scum

im not really sure what marci is doing right now...

[scamper]

tbh whwn is anyone ever sure what im doing

maybe if yall would get off my ass for 1 second i might feel more welcomed

i am really, *really* getting sick of u whining every time someone so much as mentions ur name...if ur town, please just cut it out and play the game...

[scamper]

bc doing what ur doing right now is incredibly unhelpful and irritating

[scamper]

i dont know why u would expect to get townread if u keep doing nothing but complaining and saying you dont know who scum is...like i would expect you would not be unfamiliar with the situation of being under pressure in a game, this isnt ur first game, but ur acting like its the end of the world

[scamper]

i ur rly town and u rly dont have an idea of who scum is, then ignore me and go back and read until u have an idea

[scamper]

*if ur rly town EBWOP

[scamper]

- i think ausuka, gamma. and

datisi

are all

probable town

on play

what

?

i said yesterday i felt like i might have been tunneled on you

[scamper]

ok so

- i think the rest of the hood is probably town

- while i realize we cant give credit for having pushed corwin since he flipped traitor, i still think crescent is very town

- i think ausuka, gamma. and datisi are all probable town on play

- my poe rn is just johnny/marci/alex/bella

Idk about an all-town hood based on the traitor flip
Atp the remaining neighbors are freedom and StD tho so not rlly thinking it’s worth pursuing this logic anyway

im thinking freedom/std are town on play, not because of hood mech spec or anything

[scamper]

yes

does that equate a townread?

i'm asking bc i don't remember you townreading me yesterday and i'm curious where it came from; if you did tr me yday then sorry for being lazy i guess

just woke up, real quick in case i die: crescent, ausuka, freedom are probably my most confident TRs, datisi would be next after that i guess

this was from when i thought ausuka had hammered corwin

[scamper]

im thinking freedom/std are town on play, not because of hood mech spec or anything

why are they town on play?

on a related note, can you two give some reads now that we have flips pls?

freedom is because i still think shoshin was playing in a way scum rarely ever acts

std mainly because of the confidence with which he immediately went all-in on corwin with - you can argue scum didnt know corwin was traitor but i dont think scum puts that level of aggression toward a potential misflip. in general the confidence he had in his reads late in day 1 felt real

[scamper]

ok so

- i think the rest of the hood is probably town

- while i realize we cant give credit for having pushed corwin since he flipped traitor, i still think crescent is very town

- i think ausuka, gamma. and datisi are all probable town on play

- my poe rn is just johnny/marci/alex/bella

1. We are mind melding on the first two points

2. Your POE was entirely

off

the wagon? I don't think you're scum but I do think you need to examine your thought process

why do you think mafia were on the wagon? the traitor flip screws up all my thoughts on the wagonomics, i thought mafia might have been distancing from the elim expecting a town PR flip

[scamper]

doubts on johnny being scum

elaborate on them for me?

[scamper]

doubts on johnny being scum

elaborate on them for me?

he could be scum i'm just less confident

elaborate
[ adjective ih-lab-er-it; verb ih-lab-uh-reyt ]

verb (used without object), e·lab·o·rat·ed, e·lab·o·rat·ing.
to add details in writing, speaking, etc.; give additional or fuller treatment (usually followed by on or upon):

to elaborate upon a theme or an idea.

[scamper]

ok so

- i think the rest of the hood is probably town

- while i realize we cant give credit for having pushed corwin since he flipped traitor, i still think crescent is very town

- i think ausuka, gamma. and datisi are all probable town on play

- my poe rn is just johnny/marci/alex/bella

1. We are mind melding on the first two points

2. Your POE was entirely

off

the wagon? I don't think you're scum but I do think you need to examine your thought process

why do you think mafia were on the wagon? the traitor flip screws up all my thoughts on the wagonomics, i thought mafia might have been distancing from the elim expecting a town PR flip

I think the chance of scum being in the first 5 votes is very plausible with how quickly they flew on.

And did anyone actually buy Corwin's JK claim? Bella and Marci were the only two who seemed interested in showing him any sort of mercy at all, and Marci was more because she thought he was being "bullied".

There are exactly 3 people who never voted him. Thinking the solve is that easy is dangerously lazy.

thats a fair point ill give it a look again when i have time, tonight is a bad night

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

ok then

i need to reset a bit

i actually think more likely than not JF would be the one making the kill on most scumteams here

[scamper]

really? wasn't he collectively null at best at eod1?

in my mind most potential partners would have looked better save for, idk, marci

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

ok then

i need to reset a bit

i actually think more likely than not JF would be the one making the kill on most scumteams here

really? wasn't he collectively null at best at eod1?

in my mind most potential partners would have looked better save for, idk, marci

i think most scumteams have the player thats less 'deep' carry the kill so as to not risk the one thats more townread getting guiltied

[scamper]

anyway, finally have some free time so im going to do some rereading

[scamper]

ok, im revisiting the initial wave of votes on corwin that crescent was talking about to examine how they look

VOTE: Corwinoid

{crescent, corwinoid, ????} datisi maybe? johnny maybe?

{crescent, corwinoid, johny} game solved gg mic drop

corwinoid practically TMIing scamper as town and screaming how they're caught for the wrong reasons

i think STD is town here anyway because scum has no reason to fakeclaim an investigative result on johnny, but i also want to note i think the confidence and cockiness in immediately voting corwin after corwin blew up at me and throwing out full solves with corwin in it is towny, scm usually doesnt go this all in on a day 1 push. ik ive said this before but it bears repeating.

i like scampers post on corwin, i was getting similar vibes that corwin is doing approx nothing this game

VOTE: corwin

i absolutely still want to murder marci, but we can get this going for the time being

i like ausuka being tryhardy and digging meta up

if anyone needs me for something specific, ask within the next ~half an hour probably kthxbye

this is a bit weaker and i could see it coming as a sheep vote from scum if i squint really hard at it but datisi did mention several times before this he thought corwin was scummy so the progression tracks, i don't have much of an issue with this vote really

This feels quite compelling

corwinoid practically TMIing scamper as town and screaming how they're caught for the wrong reasons

This also feels agreeable

VOTE: corwinoid
I’m down for this

these i like significantly less, its a very weak ote with no thoughts of her own and i dont find much discussion of corwin elsewhere in her iso - definitely fels like it could be a vote that was made opportunistically

I don't like 1018 and the bottom of 1027.
It feels needlessly defensive from Corwin to scamper's 1016 and as STD said in 1029, "pratically TMIing" them as Town.
Regarding, 1016, I think that it actually fairly good analysis from scamper and I concur with it.
VOTE: Corwin

this is fine ig. i dont really have a problem with the way freedom lays out his thoughts here and i still think shoshin was towny. maybe im just biased to townread people in the hood but the way corwin gives a null/town read on shoshin and doesnt realy interact with freedom doesnt feel like a traitor talking about a teammate.

[scamper]

of those voters i like gamma the least, probably need to read her iso to see how i feel about the body of work

[scamper]

alright so trying to read through gammas iso:

the early comment on townpinging alex feels like a stretchy read

im slightly bothered still by how she backed down on her scumread of me quickly, because it makes me wonder whether it was even real in the first place

similarly the read on one of cres/shos is whatever to me but the fact she doesnt really do anything with it until shoshin started pushing her pings me

a significant chunk of her posts all read like commentary to me, there's a lot of responding to things other people were saying but not a lot of what i would call analysis or game-advancing content

the argument with shoshin doesnt really come off looking great, i dont like the way she reacts to shoshin attacking her and the accusation of her being "wishy-washy" is nonsense, it looks like applying a generic buzzword that doesnt really fit shoshins behavior

im bothered by how she 180'd her read when freedom showed up because it feels very conveniently timed, 639 feels like a reachy justification to move off a vote

at this point gamma wraps u all her attantion in defending marcistar and again im noting she doesnt actually have a scumread she wants to push at this point. if shes convinced marcistar is town i would expect an effort to sort her voters but i dont get that here, i get more the impression gamma is talking about this stuff because she wants to be seen as being right on marci

there was reference to a secret scumread at 76 and im not sure anything ever came of it?

904 is a super weird post, because it looks more like she wants someone to talk her into scumreading alex than to actually defend alex?

but she has no scumreads she seemed to actually care about

1084 -> 1094 is a line of questioning i dont see the use of and the fact she was so easily satisfied with the answer is Hmm

she kind of just seems to be going with the flow as the corwin wagon builds

notably gamma is putting some suspicion on alex as the wagon on corwin was building and calling out a scumread on him but has had no followthrough on it today, or on her scumread of bella

and i'm not really sure what she's doing right now on day 2...


so overall i'm not really sure why i'm townreading her at all

[scamper]

i think STD is town here anyway because scum has no reason to fakeclaim an investigative result on johnny

I agree.
Though, I think that his result might have arisen from his confusion on what his role did.
He claimed that his role would roleblock non-Vanillas in addition to having a different result on Vanilla roles.
However, when I guessed a role which wouldn't do that, he said that I was correct.
This means that he might've misinterpreted what his role did and thought that he cleared Johnny of making the kill.

oh

well some clarity there would be helpful but im not really sure i wanna go for JF right now
there's basically no resistance to voting him and he barely seems to care when scum are already down a teammate, so if hes mafia i dont really have any idea who his partner is supposed to be...

[scamper]

like in general right now the gamestate feels like its gotten very complacent and i don't like it

[scamper]

was *once again* busy with work today, going to catch up but i'll need some time, glad to see the game is alive again

[scamper]

ngl
If you weren’t basically conftown I’d be scumreading the shit out of this
This entire wall looks like you are deliberately spouting the most uncharitable takes possible on me

Yeah I want to try and rebut that wall but there’s just 100% bullshit so idk where to even start

then just tell me where i'm wrong

because, like, I'm not even voting you or pushing you off that but I don't find you towny anymore

[scamper]

Datisi what's the progression you found?

Spoiler:

ur so buddy buddy

in before

I see.

What I'm trying to say is I don't think the scummy stuff necessarily needs to be looked at through the lens of a scum strategy.

This is a good point.
Not everybody strategises as scum. Some people as scum panic and do ridiculous things like locking into a minigame that is the easiest for scum in GotF early.

noo can we pretend it was planned... my egos shattered....
early game is easiest to find if im scum i think since ill panic easier... but my associatives always suck ass too so

can we vote corwin

Explain.
Is it to do with their push on STD?

no
its bcuz of the buddy buddying!!

in before

I see.

What I'm trying to say is I don't think the scummy stuff necessarily needs to be looked at through the lens of a scum strategy.

This is a good point.
Not everybody strategises as scum. Some people as scum panic and do ridiculous things like locking into a minigame that is the easiest for scum in GotF early.

noo can we pretend it was planned... my egos shattered....
early game is easiest to find if im scum i think since ill panic easier... but my associatives always suck ass too so

can we vote corwin

Explain.
Is it to do with their push on STD?

no
its bcuz of the buddy buddying!!

I see.
Where did STD buddy Corwin?

not that

i think corwin buddy buddied bellaphant

i don't think that main-scum, who is aware that there is a traitor in the game, goes out and attacks someone for "buddying". i think that buddying is something they'd actively be on the lookout for from their traitor, so it's counter-intuitive to be making false cases on people getting "buddied" because that's something they're currently looking for.

but even if she did to this^^, then i think there would've been a progression of "aha, i said corwin is buddying bella!! corwin flipped traitor!! therefore xyz" and not whatever 1679 is, which was also made after she was specifically asked, as opposed to immediately/early

i'm not sure i fully get this read but it feels like a read that comes from town in terms of it being a slightly outside the box thought process, and im somewhat thinking marci is town regardless

[scamper]

im having a hard time seeing gamma scum

it's certainly possible gamma got more engaged as scum since she played the potions game (she was scum and did nothing) but it's hard for me to reconcile

interesting, i'll take a look

[scamper]

i'm not realy sold on bella-town but don't feel like running her up to out what her role is, atp i'd save it for a mass claim day and see what to make of it then

[scamper]

i got distracted and went to skim the gamma scum game and i feel like she actually did *more* that game and was more aggressive and got into arguments a lot with pushing people. im not sure its an obvious difference, but maybe thats because my perception is altered from not having been in the game. does make me question my read though, maybe std can explain it better to me

[scamper]

gamma ur clearly scum as well

keeps promising ur gonna play games w me but u never do...

jk i have other rzns

Datisi is towm

cant say the same for u huh

That actually did spur a thought though, which is that I thin kit's +town for marci to be outing a read like this on gamma even if she hasnt explained it, cuz gamma has been her number 1 defender - scum gladly just accept the pocket and reciprocate the read and shes not doing that

[scamper]

Could elim in Alex/Johnny/datisi basically

Bella could you elaborate on your feelings on these players you'd be willing to eliminate

I know you've found it difficult to get into the game so I'm sorry I can't be more specific but like, just saying the feelings you have about these players and giving them an ISO if you have the time should be fine

Bella chiming in would be nice, but also Freedom. He's actually done even less than Bella has today, and has yet to even share a read of any kind and has mostly just Hood-talked about STD.

It's kinda frustrating how low-energy this day has been. Giving me all sorts of 2273 vibes where half the town sat on it's ass.

i just checked and freedom is kind of concerningly trending toward IIOA but i dont think i want to go there today either

[scamper]

sooooooooo

anyone gonna join me on the alex wagon then?

can you elaborate on the case on alex? I meant to read him today but I was busy and didn't have time to do so myself

[scamper]

i gotta sleep, i'll get to the other stuff in the morning

[scamper]

iactually do lowkey think dstisis scummy

i think johnnys towny

i thought bellaphant was scummy but thats until datisi decided to wagon there
shes still scummy tho

im fine with a bellaphant wagon
VOTE: bellaphant

marci, could you explain a bit more?

no thank you

literally what do u want me to explain more
nothing theres confusing

y is johnny towny? you complained earlier about no one asking you for an explanation but now when someone did you didnt answer...

[scamper]

I have a pretty solid towncore right now

Honestly really feeling this. Std, Freedom, Crez, Scamper and Ausuka win this game for us 100% it's why this game has been on the back burner.

this is like, probably fine tbh

we need 1 more name to have a POE of 5 but i am decently all right with the ones there

[scamper]

i think bella is avoiding the thread actually

[scamper]

Bellaphant has requested replacement

um

[scamper]

i think thats just a scumclaim

she hasnt siteflaked so i dont see a reason for it

[scamper]

I'm really, really mad about everything right now. why, why, WHY do you not just CLAIM instead of REPLACING OUT?

and what on earth was that vig shot?

I'll be back when I'm less annoyed

[scamper]

Okay, now that I'm *slightly* less mad - looking at the flip, I'm assuming this means STD targeted johnny on night 1? So that means johnny is a PR since he didn't die?

[scamper]

what the hell is this setup...

If Johnny was protected I don't see the reasoning why a townie would do it, and given how many PRs we have already I'm doubting town has further protective powers in any case. At the same time I doubt scum have much means to protect as well given they've lost their JK (unless maybe scum BP?). But in any case I think the most likely explanation is Johnny is a scum PR.

Yeah.
I was thinking that Johnny might be scum Bulletproof if he wasn't a scum PR.

we already flipped a bulletproof traitor, if this setup has multiple bulletproof scum it's bastard as hell - not that it matters because STD's shot would fail on a bulletproof

well if i'd known there was another vig that was about to put us in evens, i would've waited

i thought alex was scummy and my big brain setup specc told me remaining scum are probably not vanilla

Explain that to me?

[scamper]

i'm VT, shockingly enough

[scamper]

i don't really know what to make of the claims anymore given that this setup seems to be specifically designed to mess with people. if someone is good with setup spec maybe they can help but i am not proficient in that whatsoever

i'm going to reread yesterday and see if i can get anything from how the bella wagon formed

[scamper]

Explain that to me?

traitor was bulletproof, so it's a scum i can't kill, AND he was a jailkeeper so that can block me

i thought it was only fair that i can murder the other two scum (and also it made sense to me if roden's role was supposed to be a some sorta neap)

to be fair, that was before i knew just how bonkers this setup is and that also there is another vig in the game, so what do i know lole

fair enuf, i had only been thinking with std's flip in mind, which tells me there's probably a goon

[scamper]

me and scamper can be besties !!!

haha aww thank u!

[scamper]

i'm still finding the way gamma handled the end of yesterday to be sus

[scamper]

i still think bella is more likely town than not due to softing her role and due to surely, surely the mafia traitor not playing around his main scumbuddies like that (surely?)

but i'm not actually that sure in it so if she got run up to claim, i wouldn't cry about it

Datisi has voted 5 different people today and his vote tends to move as soon as momentum for his current wagon dies down.

yes. i want things to happen. wagon on a person generally forces them to do things. if there's not a wagon building on them, i can help build another one. it's not rocket surgery.

i think the only two things that need to be said in response to alex's "case" is
- he's looking at a thing i am doing, and attaching a scum!motivation to it without considering what a town!motivation for it could be.
- i'm not townreading bella strongly enough anymore to be against the wagon on her. the weird softclaim was townie in the moment, but looking back it's nowhere near as it felt.

also, the idea that scum!me would be "just looking to kill someone" is lel but alex doesn't know me so this is excusable.

my first instinct is to call alex scum for making a case that's building on an objectively true event, and then twisting it into a scum-motivated thing without looking for town motivation.

unfortunately, i've had it before where a townie made a "wow datisi jumping votes datisi scum???" case on me, so rip.

i'm not sure 1902 comes from an alex/bella team, though, which is kind of sad because that was my working theory when voting bella. (inb4 you ask, yes i was still suspecting johnny at the time, yes my mind works in mysterious ways, shut up)

dats can you explain how you went from "more likely town than not" to beig okay enough to vote bella and theorize about her being mafia? cuz i find this progression strange but i wanna hear your thought process behind it...

[scamper]

Perf vc timing!

Bella wouldn't have been my first choice for a wagon here, but I don't have a huge problem with it.

@Bella, I intend to put you at E-1 sometime in the next 24 hours. When you see this I'd recommend a claim

johnny literally never gives a read on bella prior to this except for disagreeing with me on day 1

[scamper]

just shows up, says hes okay with the wagon, and offers nothing else

[scamper]

i realized i don't have a good grasp on the game and reads and i wanted to wagon people to fix it

......

ok

[scamper]

catching up:

- i would be scumreading johnny very hard right now based purely on his posts, but it kind of feels like the role makes sense from a setup perspective? idk, this feels hard

- im not, like, whelmed by the VCA reasoning from ausuka in 2125 because i feel like early day 1 wagons are pretty random? and its not *super* unlikely that 5 names on a votecount all end up being town. in my experience most mafia are a little bit anxious to join a big wagon early day 1 cuz theyre afraid of looking opportunistic. its maybe noteworthy if marci is scum but i dont feel as though marci is especially likely to be scum rn.

new hot take

alex/johnny?

that would still be pretty bizarre given it would mean johnny was doing nothing but bussing on day 1...idk if hes the type of player who cant handle tmi as scum but on an instinctual level i doubt that thats the team

- speaking of alex, ive tried reading alex a few times though, and i just dont see whatever crescent was seeing that make him scum. when i read his posts he looks like hes trying to solve the game.

I've seen scum!Datisi a couple times now and this isn't it. If you don't have much of an opinion on him then he's very likely town; he's generally high activity as scum and working hard to make people want to keep him around and empathize with him.

eh maybe he's town i dunno. i think scum datisi would have more wall-y posts

look

do you think i make these kills at night

wake up sheeple

<.<

[scamper]

volume clear is when you clear someone because they're posting too much for their scumrange

i'd be efforting much more if i were scum here lole

i think my issue here is that nobody instinctually makes sense as scum. like, johnny does, but like he doesn't strike me as a type of scum player to come up with the claim he did come up, yknow. unless he's scum with like, idk, ausuka or something. and i don't wanna think about that

I wanna say you might be breaking meta but I don’t think the person I’m basing my psych profile of this sort of play on (Koba) has ever called out effort level as a reason to TR them as scum

this post feels weird, its like a waffly do nothing type of post. "you might be breaking meta but this would be invalid on a completely different person"? i dont get what the point is supposed to be, and it feels especially weird when gamma follows it up with reads that just dont feel thought through at all

[scamper]

@Gamma, what's your case on Ausuka? And why do you think Johnny's alignment is related to Corwin's flip?

I think Ausuka has been buddying not one but two townies: Bella and Datisi. I realized the Datisi part more recently via checking VCs, and seeing Ausuka and Datisi side-by-side on a LOT of them. Now, in my experience, this is NOT something scum partners regularly execute; instead if one part of this pair is scum the other is just agency captured town.
As for Corwin’s flip impacting Johnny, I heavily doubt scum have both a Doctor and JK on the team. That would make the vigs near-useless. I have a baseline for this from a review of a large normal I designed so I can refer to that if needed. I also think his role has to exist since otherwise some other scum role had to have interfered with STD’s shot.

so your evidence that ausuka is buddying datisi is that...they were voting together? and this makes ausuka scum?

i'm sorry, i just don't find this convincing at all

[scamper]

otoh im worried that, like, even if johnny is town hes just...going to keep not doing anything and that makes him a liability in ELO

[scamper]

i also think my read on freedom has grown really stale and i should prob revisit that

[scamper]

oh I just realized

the mailman makes me a miller to the traffic analyst

as if the role wasn't already troll enough I'm a triple miller

Thanks pooky

traffic analyst only works on vanillas, though, and even if it didnt, the ascetic part would make it irrelevant, though?

[scamper]

i hate to even say it but the reactive omgus from gamma feels kind of towny

[scamper]

having looked at freedom, yeah, he's really not offering anything in the way of analysis, like, at all and outside of mech spec and an inherited read from shoshin i dont have good reason to townread him

but at the same time, i feel like this is the 3rd? 4th? time johnny has shown up and done nothing except to promise he'll deliver more content later

so...

VOTE: JF

[scamper]

sorry for being absent today, got busy with work. will catch up tomorrow

[scamper]

i have some time now finally, but it's probably going to take me a little while to catch up still

[scamper]

having looked at freedom, yeah, he's really not offering anything in the way of analysis, like, at all and outside of mech spec and an inherited read from shoshin i dont have good reason to townread him

but at the same time, i feel like this is the 3rd? 4th? time johnny has shown up and done nothing except to promise he'll deliver more content later

so...

VOTE: JF

Thing is part of me is sort of starting to buy lazy town Johnny, but I should probably take a look at some other games of his. I don't know if he were scum if maybe he'd be trying harder or whatever. He's basically active lurking at this point.
I'd say if he still doesn't post something more soon I'll be joining the wagon.

my concern basically is that even if he IS town i think yeeting him is the best option today tbh

cuz, like, imagine if we vote out, say, freedom and he's town - do u want johnny around in a melo situation? i dont. hes basically not even playing anymore, is he going to just keep prod dodging then too?

[scamper]

whys scamper subtly trying to divert the freedom wagon :rosejudge:

i dont particularly feel like voting freedom

i think their gameplay makes sense for them,

but i wont stand in the way of it :shrug:

what makes me pause is basically by logic their claim is v weird when all the other neighbors had additional roles. also the way ppl r acting makes me go hmm but thats a problem for a diff day

y do u have a problem with me starting a different wagon if you dont really like the freedom wagon??

[scamper]

do u want johnny around in a melo situation? i dont. hes basically not even playing anymore, is he going to just keep prod dodging then too?

don't disagree with this, but how is this different than freedom and marci?

i dont think theyre comparable? marci and freedom are at least remaining active (and i dont feel like marci is all that likely to be scum anymore...), this is like the third or fourth time jf has gone over a day without posting and he keeps promising to do things and then not doing anything

[scamper]

I was going to make a post complaining about how paranoid of everyone I am and how hard this game has become, but that wouldn't serve a purpose outside of whining.

I'm going to vote between Gamma or Marci today, unless someone has a compelling argument for someone else.

I've spent some time looking through potential teams and the vast majority of them ended up in the "highly unlikely" pile.
However I think I can see Gamma/Marci as a team. I can alternatively see Johnny/Marci, but I'm probably not pushing Johnny today due to his claim.
Haven't decided fully on which way I'm going but I'll probs drop a vote in the next day or so.

VOTE: Freedom

Eh I'm convinced this is a better vote than gamma for now

Join me, easily manipulated townie

VOTE: freedom

pocket go brrr

You guys are killing me.


Shoshin's play was so erratic but not in like a scum flaily way but in a town "idk what's happening and suspect everyone" sorta way.
Granted Freedom's posts are really, really weak and it was kind of funny that I mentioned his lack of scumhunting and he immediately appeared to start asking Marci the same q he's been asking since D2 (which -- fair play I don't think she's ever answered).

This is what I mean about a lot of teams being unlikely, if it's Freedom scum then it means the hood was 2 towns 2 scum.

I think the thing as well is that maaaaybe Freedom is just town neighbour who has no one in the hood to talk to and everyone's already town reading him so he's just coasting. Like I've played with people who lose interest and don't care if they're VT or they lose their power for whatever reason. But then I think if he was a townie that cbf he'd be playing more like Johnny is? I do see that agreeableness and like, a lot of the questions he asks are very surface level.

2268 makes me think he's town because idk why scum!Freedom makes an argument against himself, but then that WIFOM is probs the reason he'd post it.

I'm overthinking in this game way more than I normally do and I think it's at my detriment.

Yeah whatevs VOTE: Freedom I'm going to ignore roles and just go with play

i'm a little bothered here by how little it took you to go from, i'm paranoid of everyone right now, i think freedom is town, actually i'll vote him anyway

[scamper]

like what was it u found persuasive enough to change your mind between those last two posts?